Sara & Cariad's Weirdos Book Club - One's Company by Ashley Hutson

Episode Date: October 17, 2024

This week's book guest is One's Company by Ashley Hutson.Sara and Cariad discuss Red Dwarf, safe places, connection in novels, self care and Creed from The Office.Trigger warning: This episode contains references to death, suicide and assault.Thank you for reading with us. We like reading with you!One's Company is available to buy here.Tickets for the live show at the Southbank Centre with special guest Harriet Walter are available to buy here!Sara’s debut novel Weirdo is published by Faber & Faber and is available to buy here.Cariad’s book You Are Not Alone is published by Bloomsbury and is available to buy here.Cariad’s children's book The Christmas Wish-tastrophe is available to buy now.Follow Sara & Cariad’s Weirdos Book Club on Instagram @saraandcariadsweirdosbookclub and Twitter @weirdosbookclub Recorded and edited by Naomi Parnell for Plosive.Artwork by Welcome Studio.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Sarah Pasco. Hello, I'm Carriad Lloyd. And we're weird about books. We love to read. We read too much. We talk too much. About the too much that we've read. Which is why we've created the Weirdos Book Club.

Join us. A space for the lonely outsider to feel accepted and appreciated. A place for the person who'd love to be in a real book club, but doesn't like wine or nibbles. Or being around other people. Is that you? Join us. Check out our Instagram at Sarah and Carriad's Weirdos Book Club for the upcoming books we're going to be discussing. You can read along and share your opinions.

Or just skulk around in your raincoat like the weirdo you are. Thank you for reading with us. We like reading with you. This week's book guest is One's Company by Ashley Hudson. What's it about? It's about a woman who wins a lottery and decides to recreate the set of her favorite sitcom and then lives in it by herself as she plays all the characters. What qualifies it for the Weirdo's Book Club?

Well, it's about a woman who wins the lottery and decides to recreate the set of her favorite sitcom and then live in it by herself as she plays all of the characters. In this episode, we discuss Red Dwar, Safe Places, Self-Discovery, Dog Care, Connection in Novels, and Creed from the Office. Hi, Sarah. Hi, Carrie-Ad. How are you? I'm very well.

How are you? Well, we're both quite tired, aren't we? Yeah, I was going to lie. Oh, I don't do that. I was going to fake it. Yeah, yeah, sure. You know, someone's tuning in to a podcast about books. They don't want to hear about my teething, baby.

I would. Because I want the full picture. We are talking about One's Company, a novel by Ashley Hudson. And I saw this recommended on Instagram. Oh, did you? The other day I went down a hole. A hole. I've got too much to do.

And so I went down a book buying hole because I went on to people who were recommending like weird books on Instagram because obviously our podcast is like weird characters, outside of books. And this one, I mean, number one, I love. the cover so much. The cover is beautiful. People do say, don't judge a book by its cover. But also, in this day and age. I won't judge it by it, but I might buy it because of it.

Yeah, yeah. And I've had people staring at me on the train, you know, because of this book. Staring at you? Yeah, no, I was like, why is that woman looking at me? And then I realized she was looking at the cover. Like, what's that? I could see loads of women being like, what's she reading? And I thought that's a good cover.

But maybe she could be one of our very selective, wonderful listeners going, I'm watching Carriad from the weirdos. No, she definitely did that thing. book for the book club. I had that like, oh, is someone looking at me? Who? Oh, no, she's actually looking at my book. She didn't even register me at all. Yes.

And then when I had sort of caught her eye like, yes? She looked embarrassed. I guess because it's sort of like, I mean, I guess it's, it looks retro, doesn't it? They've got the 70s vibe. Yeah. 70s vibe. So we should say this book is about a character called Bonnie Lincoln. And some severely traumatic things happen to Bonnie Lincoln.

Yeah. And also she wins the lottery. Yes. Well, it doesn't tell you about the trauma and the traumatic things on the blurb. So what I was expecting from this book and how it was described is someone wins a lottery, loads of money, and they decide to recreate their favorite TV show and live inside it. Yep. And the TV show is a real TV show called Three's Company.

Had you ever seen or heard of it? So I didn't know it was a real show until you just said that. Yeah. So this is my big first caveat with this book is I feel like I am not the right person to read this book because it feels like you need some. references to, I feel like, do you? I think, I think you'd have a different experience. If you have grown up in America, watch Three's Company, so like, I guess an equivalent

to us, like, not only Fours and I was friends. I just kept thinking of friends. But it's like 70s. It's that real specific 70s sitcom in this country. If you grew up in the 70s, the Good Life was on all the time. There's lots of cultural references that maybe you would know, but like I think most people might reference like Margot and Jerry were the posh neighbors, Tom and Barham. Barbara were there like they bought a house and they tried to like grow everything and it was like very of its time.

So if somebody said to me, oh it's a British book, she wins the lottery and she rebuilds the house of the good life and she lives in it. I would have a lot of references that I'd be like, oh, I know what's happening. So did you feel, because I thought she was making it up and it didn't bother me. Three's Company is real, yeah. Because I never felt like, oh, I don't know that reference. I think because I knew Three's Company, I had heard of that show. But you haven't ever watched it.

I've never watched it. It never really made. I don't think it particularly got shown over here. Right. And so I felt like this, I felt like there was a whole world because she literally builds the world of this sitcom. She builds the apartments, the florists that the woman works at. Yeah, a bus to get to other places.

So she goes up into the mountains and recrates the whole thing. And it's like two square miles of land, yeah. It's huge. And she's only able to do this because she wins an extraordinary amount of money on the lottery. So yeah, I felt like I didn't quite know what someone was obsessing about. Like I felt a distance Right Do you know what I mean

Well I was just like I don't know Janet And I don't know Chrissy and Jack Yeah I didn't mind Yeah Because I didn't think that was important I guess that's That's the laziness of me as a reader

I'm like Ah I don't know Janet But she tells me Janet's got blue eyes Oh I think I felt I think because I love 70 sitcoms And I want to do like No I want to pin this down

Yeah I felt like Like I knew if it was like The Good Life Or to the Man of Born Or 2.4 two Like I grew up obsessed with watching sick because I was like, oh, there's this world that I just don't, I'm really struggling to have any, to care about.

I didn't really care about Three's company. That's okay. Because the character cares about it. I think that's why it doesn't matter or didn't matter to me. Characters care about things and it's whether you care about the character. But she was so obsessed and a large amount of the book is building the world. Yeah, that's true. How the details, talking about this plot lines, which I think,

if you knew you'd be like, oh God, like I know exactly what this world she's building. And so I felt like it, I personally did think if you, I felt like a very American book to me, whereas often, you know, you can read a book by American writer and like it doesn't matter because the characters, you know, they're good characters. It just felt like, you know, if someone's talking to you about something obsessively and you've just never seen, you've got no idea what they're talking about. Oh, no, I wouldn't. Oh, I'll spend time with a character in a book talking to me about something.

But also because I thought it was made up. Yeah. I've never heard of this. I thought, oh yeah, she's taken something a bit like friends, you know, lighthearted, comfort viewing, not very up to date anymore, but it reminds her nostalgically of a happy, safe time. Yeah. And then she's, you know, she was telling me enough about this world that she was creating for me to happily believe she was trying to exist in it. Yeah, and I think you definitely get that sense, like exactly what you said. It's a comfort place.

She's had this awful trauma, so she's trying to run away from life. And that's what's like, like, yeah, if someone said I've recreated Central Perk and Monarch's Flat, you'd be like, oh, I get that. I think I felt like the character went into such obsessive detail. There were times when I was like, and what else is happening other than you recreating three? Like, do you know what I mean? It was like talking to an obsessive for a large chunk of the book. If you were going to recreate a TV program to live in. Reddorf.

Red dwarf. Red dwarf. Yeah. Because it stays pretty similar. So I love Blackadder, but it moves around a lot. So Reddorf is like they're on the spaceship, they're on Reddorf, or then they live on the spacebug for a bit. And like, it'd be very easy to recreate that world,

and that would feel very definitely comfortable. And then would you be one character at a time? Kachanski. Who's the character Kachanski? Now Kachanski is the only woman, really, and she doesn't really get any airtime to they bring her on as a separate character. This is already boring.

No, it's not boring. Other people's obsession. are fascinating because of why it's interesting to them. But I felt like this book just tips slightly over. We haven't finished with Red Dwarf. So, Kajinsky. Kachanski. All right, okay.

Christine Kachanski. Christine Kachanski. So Lister in Red Dwarf, there's a nuclear explosion, but Lister is in stasis. Which one's Lister? Craig Charles. All right. I don't like Craig Charles. So Lister wakes up like thousands of years after, I can't remember the exact amount,

and the whole crew are dead. but he had when he went into status he was only put into status because they found out he was keeping a cat and so he was in trouble and that's the guy who's cats I can't reveal the book podcast has already

how fucking sad I am this is now extra layers of sadness other people's fascinations are interesting if they have an insight to that person so anyway but what I'm trying to say is who's the actor who played the woman Oh and CP Grogan

Happy birthday Happy birthday that woman I don't know who that is You know that song she sang that she was in altered images C.P. Grogan and she also played

the original Christine Kachanski and Lister was in love with her when he goes into stasis and he wakes up and she's dead basically so this character wakes up in deep space and that's who you are, the dead lady Yeah but he then occasionally time travels and finds her

and then they made the mistake because it's so brilliant he could never have his love. Series 6 they actually bring a real Kachansit, different actress and it was terrible because it was like no one wants him to get Kachanski but she was like

super cool and she wore a boiler suit and that's why I bought their boylis suit the other day. Ah, okay. So you'd be that character. Yeah. Would you ever, if they were like, okay, we are going to bring it back, do you want to come right?

Stop it. Would you write for it? Or would you go down and leave it alone? It's my childhood. No, I would happily write for it because it went on for too long. And it needs a reboot. That's the thing. But they keep rebooting with the old actors and like, I love them so much.

But they got so old that it's, it looks a bit odd. Like it looks like old people's home space. I love you. Please, look. I love you so much. I love you, but have a rest now. I don't know. But it's a great, it's a really good sitcom.

Christine Kachanski reveals that she's murdered. To all, everyone else on Red Dwarf. Reddorf is a really... A boiler suit is splattered with their old blood. The first four, five series, first four series are really well written and it's really sciencey and it's all this stuff that's really like, they do really clever episodes. I can't believe I'm defending it. No, no, you're not, you're saying, so that's your TV show.

That's all I think that's, well, as a kid, me and my brother used to record it and watch it all the time. And it was a safe place show for you, and it's a comfort show. Yeah, and we'd watch obsessively black. Black had a, or Reddorf. But black had a like, well, you know, you don't want to go to the trenches, do you? I wouldn't feel comfortable. No. So it would be funny.

There's a series set in the First World War. Yeah, the last one set in the First World War. Oh, it's the last one, is it? Yeah, yeah. They go from... It's not the quiet last one because they did back and forth at Millennium Dome, which I watched through times a day for many months. That's very true.

The first series is medieval and then it's Georgian. No, Elizabeth Ethan, of course. Sorry, Miranda Richardson. Elizabeth Ethan, Georgian, World War I. What I thought, Ashley, Hudson, author of one's company and novel

did so well is show that it was so bland it was so mashed potato to someone who, I mean literally she watches the first episode of it

after she has worked in a convenience store it has been robbed there, you know and it's a brutal brutal brutal robbery and that the people

who worked and owned in this store were you know it's the guy that she was in love with and the people she considered family that she spent

Christmas with, it was such an intensely horrible, horrific undoing of a crime. It had to be such a bland show. Yeah, definitely. It wasn't like, oh, I love the jokes. It was, I love the safety. The safety of people going out on dates and coming back and going, oh, he's a weird guy. And the canned laughter. I mean, you don't need to.

And people, you don't need to know the show to understand. Like, I don't, having never seen it, I got the show from her description. And the importance of the show is that it's people who are living in a house share. And the big stuff is like, oh, they get a dog and they're not allowed pets. Yeah. That's the drama. Someone goes for a date. It goes wrong. Yeah. It's a pure 70s American sitcom. And they're not, you know, it's not adulthood.

Yeah. It's the little bit between. We should say the entire plot is that there's two girls living in a house together and then they like have a party, wake up. There's a man there. In the baths. And they kind of need an extra roommate for money. And then their landlord is like, you're not married.

You can't have him stay here. And they go, he's gay. And that's the entire show. And that must have been in the 70s a joke. Oh, hilarious. Yeah, that was hilarious. So he's pretending to be gay. Yeah, straight man pretending to be gay would have been like, oh, that's funny.

And he's actually really into girls. So it's like so crazy that they think he's gay. Yeah. Whereas now he'd be like, as that funny, is it being gay? Yeah. It's how funny is it? So the joke, I haven't, not seen it, it sounds like the entire show is about people thinking he's gay.

Which, again, it is something that they do in friends sometimes. Yeah. We haven't moved on as far as we should. Or, you know, You know, people, you know, sort of apologize. A bit like when we talked about Claire Dedera. I'm not saying Friends is quite in the Monsters Territory, but it is something where you go, yeah, I like it, but yeah.

Oh, yeah. We still watch The American Office. Who? I mean, that. But there were episodes that are dropping off Amazon and Netflix one at a time. You go, oh. Is that what you'd go in? Would you go into the American Office as your safe place?

I guess I would, actually. Yeah, because you didn't watch sitcoms as a kid, did you? I didn't watch TV at all as a kid. In terms of like safe place TV, I mean, probably would be friends or the office. I could do the office. Something that just runs forever and ever. Who would you be in the American office?

Creed. We've got a lot of love for Creed. Creed is the one when you're re-watching that you start to appreciate more and more. No, creed is amazing. Non-sequitur. There's no consistency of character. It's just what they need him to be at that time. Yeah, yeah.

And he was a writer, right? Or he's something to do with it. He's a... In real life? No, I think he's like... He's something to do with the show that he got roped in. They're all to do with the show. Yeah.

But I feel like he's a producer or writer that actually was. And they just made him be... The writer's all in the annex, that which is right, so they don't have to film them in wides. So Creed's not a writer. He's a musician. He's a musician, yeah.

That's it in real... That's where he plays his band sometimes, isn't they? Yeah, love Creed. I'd like to be Pam. Yeah. I could do Pam. But Pam looks like you. Yeah, I could do it.

Right casting for Pam, yeah. Brown curly hair. Not too pretty, but like... Not too pretty, but like, no. Like, fine. Like the receptionist. And I was a receptionist. Sam's very pretty.

That's the whole point. Is everyone fan... Now, I'm saying you're still good casting for Pam. I then felt bad. I then felt bad. She's for that amazing actress who plays Pam because she is really pretty. But they do make her look quite plain, don't they?

She wears cardigans because men are awful if you're an attractive woman. That's the through line of Pam is, you know, button your cardigan up to the top. She puts on a nice clothes once. And then she has to take off of her. I still meet people who haven't seen the American office, and it makes me so... Do you get this?

Like... I just always feel happy for people. that they're then going to go on to watch it. But they go, oh, the British one's so great. Don't think, I don't know if I want to. I'm like, what is it? But it is odd at first. But Claudia O'Doherty, I live with her in Edinburgh and she made me watch it.

Oh, is that who made you watch it? Because I was a bit like that. Oh, so good. But if I've already seen it, why would I see it again? Oh, and you don't understand how good the American office is. And that it's not a remake in those kind of remake American ways. That would be a great safe place. I think you've chosen well.

Yeah, I think it would. And Creed is good because you have a great time. And it's very, it's, it's, it's moralistic. The dramas are small. It's someone's burned their foot on a grill, you know. The fire alarm went off. The fire alarm went off, yeah. Oh, God.

Yes. David's coming from head office. Jan's had a boob job, you know. It's really safe place drama. I, I, yeah, to be fair, I don't watch Reddorf anymore because I find it a bit too like, it's like so nostalgic for me. But if I'm feeling particularly shit, I will put on the American office. My ex-boyfriend used to watch the Harry Potter films if he was feeling poorly.

Oh, no. If he was, like, sick in bed. It was like, oh, no, I've got to go to bed. Oh, I get to watch Harry Potter. I think it's nice to have comfort for it. Yeah, yeah, no, you need it. When you can't read, because you don't feel well, you can't stare at something. Yeah, American office for me.

Or Broad City sometimes as well. Yeah, because it's just like, you know you're going to laugh. Yeah, broad cities, yeah, but that's funny, funny. Yeah. Sometimes, we have gone off on a tangent, but what I'm trying to say is the premise. Yes. Is very secure. Yeah, something awful happens and you want to build a TV show and live in it.

My thing is, I feel like. No, I mean, I know. You can. Come on. Be honest. We know how hard it is to write a book. I think the writing is good. It's not that she's a bad writer.

I just felt very frustrated with her the way she was telling this story. Okay. So like, obviously there's this trauma going on. And then she, I just felt like we got so deep into how she's going to build the world. Like the way, the process of it, she goes up to the mountain. She hires all these people who have to sign NDAs. So you thought it was, you were overloaded with detail you didn't need as a reader. I felt like we lost.

why and what was actually going on and occasionally she would give you these flashes of like oh this is the reason Bonnie's doing it Bonnie is completely traumatised but the character Bonnie would never ever go there like Bonnie was like we are not talking about it I am fine yes I am going to play I'm going to shove everyone I love away and I'm going to inhabit a character of a sitcom I'm talking to people who aren't there which actually does mean that we were shoved away yeah that's how I felt because we when I first met the character obviously you know for the first I mean maybe 50 60 pages we don't know what the bad things

happen actually it's a bit it's a bit of a wool when it gets when you get told you're like well fuck she makes these comments at the beginning about how they'd never been had a serious robbery at this store yeah and how the worst one was like a boy pretending with his fingers inside his jacket and the guy sent him away yeah sorry for him and gave him some like a few twenty dollar bills so the world had been set up as quite safe for a little while but we got to know Bonnie and her friend Crystal and the family that she lived with and how amazing Christmases were

and then we found out what happened all of a sudden and so we feel immensely sorry for her and she's trying to navigate her life and then you know she's entering the lottery so the story was very much in her trailer in the real world yeah and she also decides I'm going to win she knows she's going to win yeah and so she's it's a godlike moment yeah isn't it of these dates of births of the yeah the deceased family Yeah, who kind of have taken her in because her own family have also died. So there's like trauma upon trauma upon trauma this person is dealing with. But we never really, she never deals with it.

That night where she goes to stay, there's a night where she goes to stay at Crystal, who's the surviving daughter, who wasn't at the convenience store, who's picked her up from the hospital. Yeah. And that night felt very, I actually thought, oh wow, she's talking, the author is writing about someone who's just had the most horrific thing happened to me. and she had like frozen peas on her groin. Yeah.

She's on the sofa. She then sees his program. That night felt so, I just thought that was so well written. Yeah, that was brilliant. I believed what had happened. But then we moved, do you know what I mean?

We moved so far away from that into this minutiae of like, Bonnie's won the lottery, Bonnie's sending everyone away. How do you recreate a sitcom in the mountains? Yeah. Like if you're going to, like, how do you do it? Yeah. Which I was interesting because I was like, wow.

she had really, really thought about it. Even from the moment of, you meet a lawyer, you get someone to be in charge of your money so that your money makes money so that the money you're spending on this, you have enough left to do it. Yeah, and they've got this fake background of Los Angeles that's moving all the time.

They've got this, like you said, this bus that's on a route. Yeah, even like the cookie boxes, it's 70s cookie boxes that have been sourced and then they're put over sort of plastic containers so she can use them. Yeah, so she can basically completely... But she's not to look at anything new.

Yeah, and she's, watching old, she's watching the complete television. Some like old lady had recorded what was on telly and Beatamax. So she can turn the telly on and it will be the right telling. Newspapers, the collections of LA Times newspapers because they need to get delivered every morning like in the sitcom. See, I sort of loved that detail because the author had another, I know it's real. It has obviously been rewatching and rewatching her and how would you do that and how did you do that? And she's answered that to me so that I wasn't ever thinking, you can't do that.

I was like, oh, you could. If you had a billion pounds, you could. You could, but I then felt like that was really interesting. As a reader, you're like, oh wow, this, what Bonnie is really doing this. But you've lost a story by then. But also now tell me why. Like, what's happening with Bonnie? And I felt like the character Bonnie becomes extremely paranoid and her mental health

obviously deteriorates. And she is talking to people who aren't there. She thinks she is in the sitcom. And then every night again, she has to break, go back to being Bonnie and like get the food from the storage place. And that bit kind of breaks her mind. I guess this is actually what, this is pinpointed what's difficult about what I think the author's done really well. So she sets up right at the beginning that Bonnie doesn't know who she is.

And what I mean is like she doesn't know what herself is. Yeah, even before this horrific accident. This is page 15. She says, a certain absolute truth that determines one's identity, I had never found mine. I felt I could change in an instant depending on the situation or people around me. It all seemed so real in the moment and so completely fake upon reflection. Recalling my own memories felt like remembering a stranger's dreams. I had no true idea of myself.

And so the brilliant thing she's done is shown that someone with no self or someone who's then going to inhabit other people's selves, which is very conscious, she's now pretending to be other people. She then loses her grip on reality. Ourself and who we are to other people is how we ground ourselves. Yeah, yeah. I felt I connected with it so much because of having a baby. and losing who you are.

You don't spend time with any other adults. You are hormonal, exhausted. Your clock is all wrong, isn't it? Completely wrong. And it feels like yourself has dissolved, or for me, felt myself had dissolved. And then the postpartum period, the cloud I'm just coming out of is like,

oh, finding bits of being again. Or rebuilding, go, okay, it's different, but there's a self again. And that's what I felt I could align with, although obviously I'm not obsessively building other, trying to find other selves to escape into. If you lose self, if yourself becomes much less solid,

there's madness there. Yeah, that's a very eloquent, well-put point, and I agree with you. It's a very elegant, well-put point that I disagree with. No,

no, I do agree with you, but I think it's just how you then write a character that the reader cares about. That's, I think, what I'm coming back to. I think,

and actually that's what I think. I'm struggling to care. for this Bonnie. When I've had people not enjoy Weirdo, my love all, it's that. It's because when you write a certain kind of character and it hadn't occurred to me because I liked her, that someone else might not for the exact reason. I think you gave us more with Reardon.

I feel like you opened up the door, because Bonnie is closing the door on 90% of who she is. And we're only getting Bonnie's voice. Bonnie's telling us everything. Bonnie's telling us what she thinks about Crystal. So you can see there are people who love her and people who care about Bonnie and she is not letting them in. And other people who are suffering.

And so Bonnie keeps, it's like talking to a mad person for 300 pages. Yes. And I think that's what I found like halfway through, the mad person constantly being like, I'm fine. And you're like, you're not fine. I'm wondering what's, like, I think I was really worried when the animals came in. Well, I think the animals, it was not good. It's not good. I wondered what you'd feel about the dog situation.

It's really, really stressful. Yeah. Really, really stressful. So the person who builds her, she has one good relationship with this sort of bizarre. architect who agrees to help her build this. He's very kind of her. And as a parting gift, you can absolutely understand why a compassionate,

empathetic human being will think the company of a pet for someone who can't be loved or communicate and doesn't want to feel emotions because of huge trauma. You can understand his logic of there was a puppy in a season of this or an episode of this. It's mentioned in an episode, isn't it?

In three's companies, So he leaves her in a sort of magic apartment they've evented, which kind of has a DVD player and it's like a plain space, which he's built for her. There's a dog and a canary, which are both mentioned, although he's actually got it wrong. It should have been a parakeet.

And that drives her mental. Like she's furious with him. There's a detail. And so it's like it poisons her world. She hates the smell of the animals because she's cleaning all the time. I think I found being with her difficult. Like by that point, by then it's really stressful.

Yeah, it was so stressful being with her. And you're only with her. She was so stressed. She's pushed everyone away. She's living by herself on the set of a sitcom. She's talking to herself. And so by halfway through, I was like, oh, my God, this is such hard going to spend time with you. But that, it's not bad writing.

Like, she's written, the character feels very real. But I was like, I want to go away. I don't want to hang out with you. I thought the sort of the stuff about self and selfhood, that's what I really sort of took from this book. I would transcend the existence of Bonnie Lincoln. So that's what she's trying to do. escaping what had happened to her by escaping the person that it had happened to,

the way that she's treated by the media as someone who had this horrific thing happened to her and then wins the biggest lottery win ever. Yeah, it was gross. That's another very, very stressful thing because you wouldn't have anonymity and everyone does know these things about you. Yeah, because she's famous for surviving this horrific robbery.

And she says, I was framed as a success story, a person who'd been dealt reverses, and then advanced to the front of the line. According to these reports, I was a Christian dream in action, suffer now, glory later, and the words happy ending were used more than once.

I mean, it's so powerful, isn't it? This is the trouble with taking something not as an allegory, but if you're like, if you're suspending disbelief and treating this is real,

then it's really stressful. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I think also the other thing, ofs. The grief, that she's not talking about. So there's a bit here where she says, grief was ugly and embarrassing.

The word itself, grief, embarrass me. I was overwhelmed with shame that was amplified by fear. Your mum is grieving. The phrase frighten me the same as if you told me she had cancer. And it's like she's grieving so many people. Like there's so much death in this book. There's so much grief. And it is somebody who refuses to grieve.

But she learned from her mother. Her dad died. Her mom didn't grieve openly, healthily, healthily, even herself or help her to do it. She had very closed off parents. And so then when other people died,

that's what she'd been taught. But then, I suppose, what frustrate me, like, stories are about change. And I felt like we were, I felt like, where's the check? Like, I just felt like there was a, we just weren't getting enough movement maybe.

Yeah. That's, I just find it a bit frustrating. Well, it's movement backwards, unfortunately. Yeah. It isn't, it isn't a redemptive book. Did you know what retreats further and further into what's, Yeah. Unhealthy. It reminded me of Melissa Boda's writing.

Yeah. The Pisces. And I also found there was like a distance to it. But in Milkfed, actually, you see much more of someone who is then redeemed through sort of obsessions and health. And there's nothing wrong with spending time with someone who like that. But I think I found it quite stressful. That's what I was thinking. Yeah.

I do think that it's stressful. But I think anyone who reads this will think about it a lot. Yeah. Yeah. God, it's a great plot. And she's fighting so hard. to destroy herself like destroy this person she wants Bonnie Lincoln to never have existed ever yeah and she's so embarrassed by herself as well like the pain it just you're sitting with someone

who's in pain for 300 pages like it really doesn't if I don't feel like you get that release that you do with a book where it's like okay she's like we've changed or something's happened something's broke through she really keeps you in that place for a long time yeah um when she has therapy at the end yeah very end yeah very end and she's sort of she's sort of faking it and she, and they think she's brilliant, you know, she's very good at feigning epiphany. She says, I demand their opinions on things. Don't you think we become other people every day? I ask. And I feel like it's, I think in a very, very subtle way, yes, people do. But not, and this is a really, really, really extreme version of that.

What did you think at the end of this character? So something happens at the end. where this world kind of falls apart and as you say she kind of ends up somewhere else I mean I didn't think it was going to get resolved I would have I mean because I mean in terms of like the story I think sometimes I'm alright to go I don't know if that person is the character or this person's mad or you know

is this person a nurse being kind to her and she thinks it's someone from her past yeah her reality is really hard to tell yeah so fractured after she has been acting out a sitcom by herself in the mountains. In an apartment she's made that after that I didn't know what was real and what was internal. Someone turns up to help her for a large

chunk of the end and I didn't know if that was there because she's been talking to other characters in the sitcom that definitely weren't there. Yeah. And then it seems that person was real. And then she thinks they were. And then she thinks they're lost. Yeah. And so after that I said I don't know who's in there and who's not. I don't know what's real weather and what's internal weather.

Yeah. If there's lightning, I don't know if that's imagined or well, yeah, exactly. Which I think, again... If there's danger, I don't know if there's paranoia or an actual person. Which she definitely takes you to that state. You're in the same state as Bonnie Lincoln. You are in the same paranoid place because you start not trusting her own writing. But again, yeah, I found it quite stressful.

Yes. And the author isn't signalling, this is really true. This is what we think is going on. It's like, no, you're in her head, so you're experiencing it how she would. And so that's what it is. You don't know. And what did you think of Crystal? So Crystal is, as we said, there's this family she's very close to who kind of take her in.

Christa was the surviving daughter of the situation who is at one point having an eating extremely extreme yeah basically dying from eating disorder yeah living in pieces her parents old house begging our character Bonnie for help and Bonnie refuses to help her yes she refuses to help her and then they both say very cruel things to each other and then there's another incarnation of Crystal later on which I didn't believe I thought that was a different character that she thought was Crystal I didn't think that was Crystal I was really like yeah that's the same I was like

this this you are so in Bonnie's head that when this new crystal arrived I was like that's mad that this crystal is now completely different trained as a nurse because we haven't had multiple voice narration yeah I've seen how Crystal got through there how she healed

how she grieved how she got to a healthier place we trained as a nurse well also I thought I thought crystal died like that bit with the porch I was like I don't because she was saying, oh, and then Crystal did this, and I thought, this, I don't know Crystal is really there anymore. Like, which I suppose I think I found a bit, there was, you know what I mean?

Like, it's definitely a weirdo book. Yeah, oh yeah. It's definitely a weirdo book. But like, like, that's why, that's why without the trauma, it's just like, oh, a woman wins loads of money and makes a TV show. That's a weirdo. Yeah, yeah, and then there's always trauma. But I felt like I was scrabbling as a reader to be like, what the fuck is real?

Like, what, hang on, which bit can I rely on? Like, which bit? So the only thing that seemed real was the sitcom. Yeah. Which of course, what a good essay to write. Like that's the only thing that she had actually made. Like she got the details right on the fake world. But she hadn't got the details right on the real world.

She couldn't handle that. And it was like the lengths that person would go to to make fake world real. I was like, why aren't you making your real life real? Like, yeah, I think I found it very stressful to read. Yeah, it really is. But then it's a very, very different way. I mean, again, to talk about what you might write an essay. about we've read things, people have read things and watch things about things like, you know,

you know, robberies, knowing someone who's murdered or having been assaulted yourself. And this is such an interesting way to show someone trying to cope and not being able to. Yeah. A really, really massive life event. I think it's definitely... Maybe that's where there is an authenticity or at least a truthfulness. It's like, I cannot wrap this up for you. this person is not going to get wrapped up.

Yeah, that's true. I think it's definitely like a close psychological examination of someone who refuses to cope but told from their point of view. So it's like you feel like the therapist almost, don't you? Because you're like, wow, I'm having to listen to all this. And also before the very traumatic event, this was not a very well. No, stable person. It's not a balanced person because of her upbringing, because she lost her dad, took his own life.

She was then orphaned. She was then taken in by this family. and there's a hint of maybe she was just an annoying sap and being nice to her, which is so pathetic. Well, again, you don't know what's true, do you? Because she has a sort of memory of these wonderful parents, not her parents,

who took her in and gave her these Christmases and gave her this like a picture of normality, almost like the same as the sitcom did. They gave her this like... They have like a little mini village at Christmas, don't know? And they have Elvis is playing Christmas songs and the lights up and it's like, again, it's like a show. It's like a film version of what.

American Christmas. Yeah, Jeannie opens the door and it's like, come in and there's cinnamon in the end. She's baked six different things in the picture. So this sort of stepmother, you know, pseudo-mother character is already creating a fake life that Bonnie loved. And so Bonnie then, when Threys Company comes along, it's like, oh, that's what I do. I disappear in time people's lives and I refuse to look at my own. Yeah, I don't know, I feel like we spent, I just felt like where Ashley Hudson chose to give us the time with her. Do you know what I mean?

I felt like I wanted either more from the beginning or more of, the end, I feel like, but obviously she's allowed to do what she tells us, but as a reader, I was like, oh, I wish I knew a bit more about this. I've seen on the back that she's been compared to Atessa Moshfa. Oh, interesting. Mulhull and Drive. And I just, and I think that is, I think that, I think that's absolutely what she's doing. It's supposed to be dark and psychological and a slippy reality.

It's very like that a year of rest and relaxation. Yeah. It actually is very similar to that. Yeah. And it isn't quite realistic. I mean, people don't win a billion pounds on the lottery. It's a really extreme version of something. I think they do in America.

Do they? I think so. Yeah. A billion. Yeah, I think they win like, it doesn't say a billion. It just says a hugest amount ever won. Does say a billion. Yeah.

Crystal says, you've won a billion pounds. I know how much you won a lot of billion pounds. You won a billion. She does it twice at different points. That's why I was like, a billion. Ashley Hudson has really, really, she's really pushed the logic of it. Oh, yeah. And that's what I really like about it.

It's not going like, oh, she did a thing, just take it for granted. She got it built. It's not like, but how would she get it built and how would it be the same? How would the toilet work? And how would what would be on the TV? But because her mind devolves and her mind is where we are, we are in the storm. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're in a house that's falling down, there's weather outside.

There are people coming with cameras. There are people, we don't know if they're real or not. It's interesting because she goes into this immense amount of detail of how they work out, how to build it. And then the whole thing fucking falls apart because it's a fake town. So you can't keep a fake town alive. Like she sort of learns the hard way what she's trying to do is impossible. Like it is impossible to hide from your grief to disappear from the world.

And this character turns up who is also a prepper, which is what they call, you know, people in America who think the world is going to end and they like cut their secret cabin and their supplies ready. So this character, Rita, who's a prepper, kind of moves in with her. Yeah. But again, that for me... I actually got really scared when Rachel turned out. Yeah, yeah, same. And she kept saying to her, how did you get in?

How did you get in? And I was like, how did you get in? But again, I felt again like that was just like, what? Now we're in a thriller. And she's thinking she was a rabbit. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you got everything so slippy.

And then she trusts Rita after trusting no one. And she's like, I've got to learn, never trust anyone, never trust anyone. Come on, Bonnie. And then this person turns up. She's like, how did you get in? And she doesn't answer. And she's like, I like the look of her. She seemed all right.

And you're like, Bonnie, fuck's sake. If I was American, I think I'd enjoy this a lot more. If I knew three company, a three's company, I think I'd enjoy it more. And if I wasn't rushing to read this on a week that's been quite stressful and busy. Yeah. And I felt a bit guilty. I was like, I don't think you're getting my full, like, as we talked about before, I don't think I was being the best reader.

If I'm in the wrong mood for a book, if I'm not reading it for the podcast, I can stop and come back to another time. There are lots of books I've loved so much when I've come back. to them. I thought, what was wrong with me? Catch 22 is the example I was used because the first time I read it, I started to read and I thought, why do people say this is funny? And then when I came back to it, it's one of the funniest books I've ever read.

I'm one of the most incredible books than Joseph Heller is a genius. That's why it's important to check yourself. Check yourself. But I think I enjoyed it more than you, but I don't think it's meant to be enjoyable. I think if we'd read this at university, we would have loved it. I feel like I'd have more space and time. I did love it as a way to explore this and a concept. and it's sort of not being real.

It's my kind of book. It's definitely your kind of book. I'm still at university, emotionally, psychologically, maturity-wise. It's slightly reminded me of. Big Swiss. And there's a quote in it. I loved Big Swiss. I would put them alongside each other.

Big Swiss, the trauma is not recent, but it still is about trauma. And there's a line in this which I almost could lie side by side with Big Swiss about the word survivor. Do you remember in Big Swiss? when she was saying about how much you hated the word survivor. But Big Swiss gives you connection. Big Swiss gives you love. Big Swiss gives you relationships.

Big Swiss gives you, I'm trying to find my way in this world, and I know that means I have to connect to other people. This book has decided to close the door on every single person. And I think I found that frustrating. Okay. Some reports describe me as, in quotation marks, a survivor, a term that was so ludicrous I snorted the first time I heard it. It's suggestion of heroism,

as if there is heroism in keeping one's body alive. It was almost exactly like something that Greta would have said in therapy, in her therapy sessions. But you know what I mean? Big Swiss is so much the dynamic of connection and people and living. And this is like almost a choice to die while living. And I think, yeah, I think if I found it like almost suffocating, like the one's company, it's like she does remove everybody.

And I was like, I'd like another character. And even when the characters, others come along, there's very few and we don't trust any of them. No, Big Swiss has this like stillness of like, or like a, a sort of stasis or a coldness as a response to it, whereas this, I do think she's sort of trying, that she's looking for silence in a different way. Well, there we go. That's One's Company, a novel by Ashley Hudson.

But I think there are people that will experience this book as if it was, you know, you living in Red Dwarf. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. It'll be some people's absolute favorite book. I'm going to write One's Reddwarf about a woman that builds a spaceship. I would read that. I'd love it.

Thank you for listening to the Weirdo's Book Club. Sarah's novel, Weirdo and my book, You Are Not Alone, are available to buy in paperback now. Tickets for our live show at the South Bank Centre are now on sale. We are going to be joined by the absolute mega star that is Dame Harriet Walter. You'll know her from Succession, Killing Eve, Ted Lasso. Go to Southbank Centre.com.com.uk or plosive.com.com. Take your tickets. Sarah's novel, Weirdo, and my book, You're Not Alone, are also both out in paperback and available to buy.

And Carriad's children's book, The Christmas Wish Tastrophe, is also available. in the shops, get it now. You can find out all about the upcoming books we're going to be reading on our Instagram at Sarah and Carriad's Weirdo's Book Club. Thank you for reading with us. We like reading with you.