Sara & Cariad's Weirdos Book Club - The Others by Sheena Kalayil

Episode Date: July 2, 2026

This week's book guest is The Others by Sheena Kalayil.In this episode we discuss communism, sex scenes, Mozambique, and the Stasi.Thank you for reading with us. We like reading with you!Follow Sara & Cariad’s Weirdos Book Club on Instagram @saraandcariadsweirdosbookclubProduced, recorded and edited by Naomi Parnell for Plosive.Assistant Producer is Amy Townsend-Lowcock for Plosive.Artwork by Welcome Studio.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Sarah Pasco. And I'm Carriead Lloyd. And we're weird about books. We love to read. We read too much. We talk too much. About the too much that we've read. Which is why we created the Weirdo's Book Club.

A space for the lonely outsider to feel accepted and appreciated. Each week we're joined by amazing comedian guests and writer guests to discuss some wonderfully and crucially weird books, writing, reading and just generally being a weirdo. You don't even need to have read the books to join in. It will be a really interesting, wide-ranging conversation and maybe you'll want to read the book afterwards. We will share all the upcoming. books we're going to be discussing on our Instagram, Sarah and Carriads, Weirdo's Book Club. Thank you for reading with us. We like reading with you. This week's book guest is The Others by Sheena Kelly Hill.

What's it about? Set in the DDR in 1989, it follows three characters as the Berlin Wall Teeters. What qualifies it for the Weirdoes Book Club? Well, Lolita is so beautiful, every man falls in love with her. That's weird. In this episode, we discuss. Communism, Sex scenes, Mozambique, and the Starzy. Good evening. Welcome to book chats with Carriead and Sarah. Good evening. How are your books, Sarah? Your Ulysses, K-Hole.

I'm now I think I'm in Ulysses for the rest of my life. It's the thing I... I mean, I'm in the cult. I'm in the U-Hole. I'm in the Meeleyses, which is me living, the life of Ulysses. And so I am... Everything I read means three more books to buy,

to read, to understand what I'm reading or read or listen to of Ulysses. So, unfortunately, I've got a lot to do. Okay, it was just a general, how are your books? How are your books? How are your books? My book's okay. My book's okay. Yeah, as people might know, I've basically finished my women's prize reading, so now I can read by choice,

but I'm finding that, I'm finding a bit overwhelming, actually. A bit like, oh, so used to being fed what to read, what to read. Fed, what to read. But I, I'm, I mean, I'm naughty. I just love, I just love going, I don't need to read this, but I'm going to. Oh, I read Jeanette McCurdy. Oh, yeah. I read that one. Half his age.

Half his age. You read that one. Slip that one in. And then I read another one this week. Sliped another one in. You're so sneaky. I am sneaky. But the book we're going to talk about today. I loved this book. I also love this book.

It's The Others by Sheena Kelleil. Kaleeal. Sheena Kaliil, the others. It was on the Women's Prize long list. That's how I came about it into my life. And now it is in my heart. Oh my God. I'm so glad you liked it.

I'm so glad you liked it. Anyone writing wants an example of, she's lauded this writer for how well she situates books, her sense of place. But I would also like to write an essay about how she writes sex scenes because I think it's exemplary. Yes. And I also think we have read a lot of books that are gripping, story-wise, great ideas, big ideas. This is how you write well, is what I would say. It's extraordinary, isn't it? I'm so glad you liked it.

Of course I liked it. Yeah, but I've been nervous. I've got a incredibly good taste. I'm nervous because you know you come across a book so you know to be what's the word Frank Frank you be Frank

I'll be Benny We're in different directions with that Yeah very different directions It came up like You know it was on my pile of women's prize reading I like East Germany I like Starziland I

Anna Finder is one of the writers that she Fucking love East Germany Exactly so of course we were going to like it Yeah but I tell you what I don't have to say No offence again the cover did not sell me I was like hmm because it's someone on the Berlin Wall, but I didn't know it was a Berlin Wall. I think you look at covers more than me.

I do. I just go straight to acknowledgements to see if this that mentioned me. And then I start the book. No, it's saying like, when I looked at it, I was like, oh, I don't really know what that book's about, right? And then I read the back and it says... Someone teetering between freedom and... Yeah, but it just didn't give me... I was like, I'm not sure.

And then this is the blurb. Okay, so people know. Secrets, lies and love. It is 1989. And in a small Baltic City in East Germany, the Deutsche, Democraticia Republic, three young people from vastly different people. backgrounds become friends. Armando is a factory worker from Mozambique. Lita is a medical student from India and Theo is an East Berliner who dreams of being a writer. And I was like, let me pick up

this right now. I was already on the beach with the scene with Clara, the little girl. And then I thought, I wonder what this book is about. And then I read the back. And I went, oh, there's going to be another character. Okay. So let me read the next bit just because I think it's helpful. Okay. Because we always jump into books. People don't know what we're talking about. Yeah. When Armando and Lolita make a grisly discovery, they find themselves caught up in the politics of Theo's homeland more than ever before. While a quiet revolution sweeps through Eastern Europe and the Berlin Wall teeters, the three find themselves entangled in a poignant love triangle which threatens their futures. As the world order shifts, their three lives are bound together and a web of love, lies and fears, leaving each other irrevocably changed.

So it's set in 1989, in East Germany, East Germany. Yeah, and it tells the most incredible stories. So for the applaudits I would like to give Sheena Calli-Ill as an author, the story she tells about Mozambique, Mozambiqueans, in the DDR. Which is true. This is a true story. It's a true research story. But the way she peppers it throughout the books, you don't realize the hugeness of what you're being told.

So this is not a spoiler because actually this is not the narrative, the main thrust of the narrative. It is something going on in your peripheral vision because of how she places it in the mouths of characters in her description. there were men from, I don't know if it's just men actually, maybe it's unfair to say, but there were people from Mozambique. It's factory workers, yeah. Taken.

Well, invited to come over. But they're not paid properly. So it's not employment. It's a deal between the governments. So the Mozambique government make a deal with the DDR. They will send men. They will send workers because they don't have enough workers, as is often the case. And people to do menial labour is the important thing.

It's not like come and work here. Factory work. And they are made to live in, a lot of them are made to live. live in... Like dormitories, basically. So it's not great accommodation. And they're not paid properly. No, the money is being given

to the Mozambique government when they get home. So they will earn more because they're in a different country. So they will earn more than they would if they're living in Mozambique. The promise is that when they go back, they'll have enough to buy a house.

And it's going to make a huge difference for their family. It has been in civil war. So it's like, this is a great opportunity. You go to Germany. You work there. And our character, Armando, is in East Germany for 13 years

doing this work. And his situation, he has had a child who he desperately loves, and obviously he works a lot of hours at the factory, but the thing we know about him right at the beginning is that he is a father to a three-year-old. So leaving the DDR is not on his... Yeah, so he's had a relationship. He had a small brief affair with a German called Petra. Yeah, a journalist who's really political and strong...

Middle-class, educated... And wanted to have a baby... White German, yeah. Whether he was involved or not. Yeah. So, and she kept the baby. She didn't really want him to do with it, but he has stayed... proved himself to be a good father. And now he's in this dormitory or this flat with other

Mozambicans who, and I think Angolan's as well maybe, but they're here for like, they're not really, they hang out with each other, they drink with each other. He's one of the few that is sort of separate because he has a half German child. He doesn't want to leave this country in the same way that they're like, I'm earning and I'm going home. And I, and when I say this isn't a spoiler, I think it's because it's a hugeness of the story for a writer to bury something like this and a love story. Yeah. That these, the true stories that these people went back to Mozambique and were never, ever, ever

enumerated. They're still fighting. Yeah. So what happened was, the deal was with the DDR. The Berlin Wall collapses. The DDR collapse. It doesn't exist anymore. So when they, then their contracts are just up. They get sent back to Mozambique. But the country that owes the Mozambique government

money doesn't exist. But no, it gave the money. They say they gave the money. Mozambique government like, well, we don't have it anyway. So corruption, it disappears. And they Yeah, they never get the money that they were living in Germany working for. I can't imagine the anger you would feel if someone stole... Yeah. Two years of your life.

Two weeks of your wages. Four weeks of your wages. But when it's years and years, then it was the thing that was supposed to change your family. It's a thing you're focused on in your shitty job and you're a shitty accommodation. The only reason you're there. I don't know how you get over being swindled like that. And swindled isn't quite the right word. And there's a great...

Not great. But there's... They're called the Majermains because they were in Germany for so long. And they're still protests. They were still in the book, they're still protesting, like, you know, 20 years later. When we meet Armando, he's chasing Lolita. A really, really hot trainee doctor. Oh, my God.

This woman is so fit. She's beautiful. And men just fall in love with her and her hair and her eyelashes. And the way that the writer describes her outfits, which are sometimes casual. You know, it's a grey T-shirt and jeans, but she's so limmy. She's so skinny. You get the vibe, don't you? Her brown skin.

I loved how. I love that Sheena writes, I think this is a thing that female writers do, maybe more than male writers. She observes the clothes of Lolita in a way that we know. Thin gold chain around your neck. She's wearing a grey t-shirt and khaki shorts, but we know men are falling in love with her.

So she looks good in nothing. Like she looks good. So Lolita's really interesting as well. She is from India. Her parents are from very different backgrounds. And they're rebellious. And they're a love story. Yeah, and they're from sort of one very upper middle class, one very working class.

And they chose each other. And they, yeah, they fell in love in Moscow because obviously parts of India are very, I'm not quite 100% this, but like are more Marxist, communists, they have links in a way that perhaps we maybe don't know. So they go to Russia for their university training, they meet there, they go back to India. So when the opportunity for their daughter, I think it's like a scheme where she is allowed to go and learn medicine. and in East Germany, they're very supportive of it. So Lolita is in her 20s. She's come to this small town near Berlin to train as a doctor. She speaks German.

But she also, because of her, because of not being from there, I think when we meet her at the beginning of the book, she has far less fear of the Starzy than a German character would have. So Theo, who we meet slightly later on, is living where he lives with his grandfather because he can't get into university because he has dissented from the government. Yeah, so Theo is our only sort of main white, actually German character. His parents, he was raised in East Germany.

His grandfather is a sort of hero of the communist regime because he chose to live in East Germany, even though he could have stayed in France. And Theo is a very observant, very intelligent man. And at school, the Stasi say, hey, you'd be good. And he says, no, which fucks his whole life. Because he won't go and train for the Starzzi. Because you're now an enemy.

Yes, if you're not with them, you're against them. So he can't go to university. Amanda, as a black man in a white German area, has two, I think I would say, two angles for his awareness of otherness and also because he needs to protect the life that he has because of a daughter. What I'm trying to say is she uses characters

to tell us what's going on in the world. This isn't a non-fiction. No. The stars used to do things like this. Yeah. You find out about it. it via Thea. But what I love so much, if you know this time period and you're interested in, you know,

communism and all the rest of it, we know lots about the Starzzi. We know lots about how awful they were, like the level they went to to, you know, listen, the paranoia. Like the lines of others kind of way, yeah. Lies of others. It's a great example of that. There's a play coming out with Kiwanitely. I know.

I tried to get tickets. They're very expensive. Things are expensive. Yeah, they were like, I was like, okay. Ridiculous. I'll watch the film. 280 pounds for me. I'll watch the film.

What I think so interesting about this book is, yeah, if you know about the Starzine, you know their history and how awful it was, how paranoid people were, like, neighbours were, you know, families were betraying each other. She chooses the moment, and this again is not a spoiler, where this is about to collapse. So, 1989, if you know your history, this is where the Berlin Wall falls. So it is such an interesting time to visit East Germany. Because so many of those books, what I mean is what we're used to is like, the heart of the Starzy, like people like, they're. in power, everything's happened. It's like everything is, everything is crumbling, people they knew, who they thought

they were, everything is falling around them, their ears. And it's just, I thought it's such an interesting time to set a book. It's so interesting. And for a man who wants to be creative, which is CEO, yeah, he wants to be a writer. He wants to be a writer. He's working as a mechanic because he rejected the stars. And he's limited by East Germany. And then

what's going to open up is and to have a character you know, to literally walk through to where he will have more freedom and then remain unhappy. Yeah. It's so great. It's so great. Because I feel that's what makes him such a believable man.

Yeah. It isn't just, okay, now you can walk through. No. But I think that's what she does. It's so interesting is she's not, you know, the star is obviously hideous. But she also talks about there's this moment in the book where Petra, who's had Amando's child, is given for her. free childcare and is able to go back to work.

She does show that there were certain things. Yeah, everyone's going to university. Unless you don't go into the Starzy, you have your own. I had a teacher at school who was brought up in East Germany, and she was a German teacher. And she used to always say, like, the image in the West was like, you know, they had nothing, and it was awful, it was all backwards. But she was like, everyone I knew got a car, everyone I knew got a house, everyone I knew went to university, and they had no debt.

Yeah. So she was like, it was, for some things, it was an extremely easy. life. And she talks about this in the book as well of like, there isn't this crime because they're locking everyone up. Like places feel quite safe. And like, you know, you're very supported. Child care's amazing. There's all this sort of like free stuff. But at the same time, as ever with ever a regime like that, there's this undercurrent of what's the cost of that. And I think she investigates both sides of it. That's what I'm trying to say. She investigates both sides of it so fairly. Like you never feel like, it's not an author trying to tell me what to

think. It's not an author trying to give me a history lesson. No, she's just giving you this It's a love story. I felt, I felt, I felt like it was a, it was an awful telling me a love story. A love story that made me feel sick at the end. Thanks a lot. I know.

Which is great. Which is great because I kept thinking about it, like I felt about Heart the Lover, whereas I like, oh God, I feel like I know them. I feel like I remember going, why didn't he do this then?

Or why didn't she do that? A love story that will live on forever in my heart. Yeah. And I, when I picked it up the first time, so I read it again for this. It's my second read and I can say, stand up,

stand up. I kept doing that thing where I was like, oh, I'll put it down, but then being like, I don't want to put it, don't want to put it down. You know that feeling where you're like, I just want to know one more thing, one more thing. In terms of plotting, if it's all right to say that, because it happens so early in the book that they find. Yes, that's fine. Good. Yeah, no, yeah, because that's very early.

So, Amanda and Lolita, day out of the beach, the first sort of semi sort of date. Semi, day with his daughter has to come to you because he sees her in South. And they find very, very, very, you know, traumatically, they find that there's someone in the water, a man who is dead. And because she's a medical student, she tries to resuscitate him. And then the border guards who should have found the body take their details. And then that has ramifications throughout the book. Yeah, there's a young guy who's obviously trying to escape the DDR, which again, has all these great things. But people are trying to leave.

The way that echoes on through the book is so masterful. So masterful. I know. It's incredible, isn't it? Because it's not overdone. No. It's not crime surilary. No. But it is compulsive and it feels true and it feels like it comes up for Lolita in the way that it would come up if that happened to you.

She does this thing again. Like she just throws something like a pebble and you just keep reading the ripples. She just never, but she as an author is never forgetting what she's put these characters through. So they always respond in ways as if that had happened. Everything makes sense, I think. Yeah. You're not like, oh. And it's never justified.

It's never silly. But nothing's for the plot. Yeah. As in you're not like, oh, I see she's moved in there because they need to do that. You're like, yeah, I felt like I was reading diaries. I was just like, oh my God, what are they going to do next? And she switches. So sometimes we're in Armando's point of view.

Then we're in Theo's. Then we're in Lelita's. Theo doesn't come into like after the first chunk of the book. He turns up and you are like. He does, but you don't realize you've met him. Yeah. He's just this sort of block that someone walks into. Yes.

How great to then go, oh, that was who that was. Lolita like bumps into someone very briefly. and then we find out later that's Theo. And also on the reread, which I thought was so interesting, like, obviously I knew what was going to happen. So there was lots of stuff where I was like, oh, she told us early on who Theo was. She tells us early on who Armando is.

And yet you're still like, well, maybe he'll, maybe they'll do this. And I was like, she told you the moment that he met him. The character who really is left mysterious is, and I'm going to mispronounce this, Jackwin. I'm going to spell it out for anyone. J-O-A-C-H-I-M because he's so kind and lovely but obviously he has a sadness and you can project onto that. I kept thinking is he perhaps homosexual? Yeah. Is that what you thought? He's lonely. He's so kind. He doesn't make smutty comments to the women. He's handsome but by the end the threat to the workers. He's their boss but he treats them all so well. I know he's love but again, it's just such good writing that like her A plot

is doing so much work, but she's not neglecting this B-plot character who's so integral. I'm worried about him. I was worried about Wachim. I was worried about Wachim. It's his safe haven and he's about to lose it. Well, you also got that thing that you have as a reader where you're like, is he going to die? It's what's happening? Because she's like, oh, Amanda knew he looked sad, but he had to go. And you're like, why? What's going to happen? Is he okay? So, yeah, I just think the thing I, again, on the reread, it is thrillery, but on the re-read, I still loved it, even though I knew what was going to happen is you really disappear.

Like, I disappeared into this fucking world. I spent all day yesterday reading this book. I just got into bed and reread it. And I was like, at the beginning, I was like, oh, I'll probably be, I'll skim it. I read it before. And then I was like, no, I want to, I'm just going to, this. I love a book where you can literally nothing else exists. Yeah.

Like the world building, you know what I mean? Like, she describes, the way she describes the flats that he lives in, Petra's flat. Petra's parents, the swimming pool. You can see. Yeah. I was like, because I was rereading, I was like, what is she doing? How is she doing this? That's what I was saying, for anyone who's trying to write, I think it's a really, really good example of like, what are you struggling with?

Go to her. How does she deal with smell? How she deals with sex? Smelt sex. Let's talk about sex. It's hot sex scenes. Really hot sex scenes. And I think she manages to be explicit and vague at the same time.

and she manages to have, what I would say is that there's flashes of anatomy, but she doesn't try to describe it every little part of it. So you get a couple of moments and that was enough of the thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also you get like there, she sort of tells you physically this is happening, but then she gives you how they feel. Yeah, it's so quickly how they feel. Everything is led by the characters are driving everything.

That's what I mean, like the plot is not the thing that drives the story. they are driving the story, which is what all writers are striving for, is that the characters are the ones who are driving everything, and you are just sat behind them going, don't do that! Why have you said that? Oh my God.

And yeah, I thought the parents, Petra's parents are brilliantly drawn. Lolita has a small community of Indian friends who are living there as well, who are sort of high up or connected to the communist government, and so are sort of protecting her. But also she's sort of blissfully unaware of it. Yeah. The author shows us those things via other characters' knowledge

so that another character can be blissfully unaware. Yeah. And, yeah, Theo lives with his grandfather, Rainer, who is this sort of communist hero. And such a lovable granddad figure. Lovable granddad. I mean, didn't you just want to, like, have a cup of tea with him? That reminded me very much of slow horses.

Yeah. It reminded me of the relationship that Jack Loudon has with his granddad. His granddad. His granddad. Yeah. I was thinking, oh, it's not the... Smalley fart guy. No.

What I love is like politics, humanised politics in that like the creation of the DDR is such an experiment, it's such a dream, is such a hope. But the consequences of making those choices, the consequences of living like that, of living in the communist regime. And how much it affected people. There's, again, it's not a spoiler, but it's a brilliant scene where Theo has driven to Hungary to take his grandfather to meet some old friends. And they start talking that the fence has been deal.

electrified between Hungary and Austria, which I didn't know. I didn't know there was an electrified fence. And the way that you're just like, oh God, like this regime is so afraid of being destroyed. It's had to electrify its fences to keep those people in. And now it's starting to crumble. Like, what does it mean when a regime starts crumbling? I guess that's also where it feels very potent for now. Like, when a regime is crumbling and it's not admitting it's crumbling, but it is literally falling to pieces and everyone can see it. And how does that affect us all? It's just like, That's so fascinating. Really fascinating.

We loved this book. I loved this book. I loved this book. Yeah, I really loved it. And also, she does this thing where she just asks questions very casually from her characters and then just jumps on again.

Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Like, there's this bit here when she's talking about Lolita's point of view is writing to her mum and she doesn't know how to write about falling in love with Armando. and so she had told her about a previous boyfriend

and she says, you know... Is that Willie? Willie, yeah. So she has not... She says she has not mentioned Armando uncomfortable, troubling to analyse this glaring omission. There was a game she played as a teenager where she wrote the name of a crush from school

on a piece of paper and then folded it as many times as was feasible but throwing it in the river near the bungalow. Has she changed at all? Yeah, glorious. Has she changed at all? Like the idea of like a character knowing, they're still behaving like a teenager but also not knowing it

and like holding that so lightly oh god that's okay there's a moment that she does something very similar with that little flashback what she tells us about Lolita this is page 220 and it's something she tells us about Theo

oh yes so God I'm trying to burst into tears do it what she mentioned to do with Theo is she has a moment with Theo and Lolita so she tells Theo and Luita this happens

someone grabs an arm Irine grabs his arm and he lets himself be led away. So it's a moment of looking at Lolita as he walks away. And then she just flicks forward. And she's never done this before in the whole novel. Many years later he'll be asked in an interview at a literary festival in Munich after the publication of his book, which also coincides with the 20th anniversary of that night, how he felt when the wall fell.

So he's about to go through the wall. He turns back, he sees Lolita and Amando. But what she does, and I don't even need to read the rest of the paragraph, he's okay, he's going to publish books. Like this whole thing, the pain he feels going through. we were leaving them. It's like she does things so, I remember used the word deftly earlier, but I think

masterful. Yeah. I know. It's extraordinary, isn't it? Yeah. And so it doesn't feel like, why should change the topic or why is she jumping forward? It feels like, no, I want you to also know this, reader. Also know this. Yeah. So this emotion has to, you're still in the emotion of his walking through the wall.

He's leaving the girl he loves. She's standing next to another man. And then you go, 20 years later, it's the 20th anniversary of this moment. And he's published books and his anniversary festival. Those two things have to like coexist in your mind.

But particularly at that moment and she's not doing that thing of like telling you linear of like oh he was sad here. Don't worry at the end. 20 years later it's like she's telling you exactly the moment where your brain is like oh okay I think he's going to be okay

but I don't 100% know that. But also that's what really feels like real life is like you have a time and then 20 years later you reflect upon it and those two things are like oh god I'm I was there and now I'm here. Yeah. I think

And that's so hard to grasp. She really does that really well of making you feel like you're in 1989 and you're not. Yeah. That you're able to, you're able to feel how they felt when they didn't believe this regime would ever end.

And you're able to look back knowing this regime ended. It didn't, it didn't last like this. Yeah. And funny, my daughter, Kate, I was reading it last night and she was like, what's that about? And I was trying to,

the picture is the Berlin Wall on the front. And I had to explain the Berlin Wall to a nine-year-old. Oh my goodness. And she was like, What? Yeah.

And I was like, well, imagine they built a wall across London and then like we couldn't see Grandma because she was on the other side. She was like, what do you mean? And I was like, well, they would literally shoot you if you tried to cross that wall. Yeah. And it's that thing when you say stuff that's history that, you know, we grew up knowing, oh yeah, there's a Berlin wall, okay, that's what it is. And then knowing that things can change, there's such a hope to that, isn't there?

There's such a hope that things don't stay like that. But it's not naive. It's like, but there's always a. fucking consequence to that regime existing. Like, we can't pretend that didn't happen to Theo. He walks through that at the moment. And then he writes books, but he's still deeply affected by that whole thing. And I don't think it's not too much for a spoiler, but I also found it really fascinating

that we talk about the Berlin Wall, we talk about the fall of it, this amazing reunification. And there is an incredible, the bit that stopped me in my tracks that the immigrants are not allowed through. So Lolita is not allowed through. and they say DDR residents only. And you're like, I was sold this as a complete reunification, freedom of movement, an amazing moment for like global history

and you're like, oh. And this is where she's very, very, very good at what she does. She knows that and she wants you to know it and she tells you it without needing to signpost it. It feels like the story. Yeah, she tells you it through characters. It's so amazing. And so this was on the long list

and she'd say, well, Fly on the Wall Press, their tagline is a publisher with conscience. It's a really small independent press. Yeah, I couldn't believe that, actually. Yeah. The smallest of the publisher bearing one, the quality of her work. And also I think she's won awards already. I met Sheena recently at the Shortlist Party.

And because of the Women's Prize Longlist, this and her back catalogue are being published in India. Oh, wow. They weren't already. Oh, my God. Isn't that amazing? So amazing. So this story, which is so much about an Indian woman, as much as it is about a German man. So she lives in Manchester.

Yes. This is her fourth novel. Yes. Yes. her fourth novel, but she's never been published in India. And she's had all this press and they bought the other novels and they've been published in India. And I just feel like this is, to me, it is such an amazing global book. Like she is talking about.

She's had a very, very global life, hasn't she? Yeah, yeah. She's lived in India, Zambia, Zimbabwe, taught around the world from Nepal and Mozambique to Tunisia and Venezuela. Yeah. And her debut novel was the Bureau of Second Chances, which I haven't read. No, but I would really like to read. Yeah, yeah. This is her fourth one.

and she teaches at University of Manchester. And it says, in the back of the book, well, penning rich immersive narratives that transcend borders. And I'm like, yeah, yeah. And it's got book club questions in the back. I know, I like that. I really like that. And I think it would be a great book club one,

because it's a bit political, it's romance, it's a bit of a thriller, it's historical. Like, she's, I think that's why the cover for this book must have been so hard, because it's not, it's a genre-defying book. Like, you couldn't really just place it in one simple genre and be like, oh, it's romance. If you had to draw the cover, what would you draw?

A sad man with the German flag behind him. Sad man with a German flag. Yeah, that's what I'd go for. Yeah. But that would be wrong because it's too historical. Yeah. I just think the book makes it look. I think the Berlin Wall, it's a black and white picture listeners of a man on the Berlin Wall.

It gives a slight bleakness, which I think once you've read the book is there. And is it a nude man? I don't think he's nude. I think he's nude. I've recommended it so many people, and so many people, said to me, oh God, when I handed him, oh, God. I'm like, no. Like, it's, obviously, no shade. Book cover design is really difficult, and I couldn't come up with a better one. But it's just like, I don't want people to not know there's quite a lot of romance in it.

Yeah. I don't think you get the sense of romance from it. No, you don't. And that's what I feel like, it looks like, oh, it's going to be really serious. It's going about East Germany and the Starzy. And you're like, it is, but it's so much more than that. She's doing so much more. I can't recommend it enough, can we? No, we love it. Yeah, I'm glad you loved it. Thank you for listening to The Weirdo's Book Club. My Kidsbook, Where Did She Go? A picture book about grief is available to buy and paperback now.

You can find out all about the upcoming books. We're going to be discussing this series on our Instagram. At Sarah and Carriads Weirdo's Book Club. And please join us on Patreon. We are making more of an effort to put more content on there. It's a great way to support us and the show. If you want us to keep doing it, go ahead to Patreon. Thank you for reading with us.

We like reading with you. Dan Goshan.