Sara & Cariad's Weirdos Book Club - Tom Lake by Ann Patchett

Episode Date: November 14, 2024

This week's book guest is Tom Lake by Ann Patchett.Sara and Cariad discuss acting, Sara's beautiful singing voice, being invisible, and their new book based musical - 'The Literary Libretto'.Thank you for reading with us. We like reading with you!Tom Lake is available to buy here.Cariad’s new children's book The Christmas Wish-tastrophe is available to buy now.Sara’s debut novel Weirdo is published by Faber & Faber and is available to buy here.Cariad’s non-fiction book You Are Not Alone is published by Bloomsbury and is available to buy here.Follow Sara & Cariad’s Weirdos Book Club on Instagram @saraandcariadsweirdosbookclub and Twitter @weirdosbookclub Recorded and edited by Naomi Parnell for Plosive.Artwork by Welcome Studio.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Sarah Pasco. Hello, I'm Carriad Lloyd. And we're weird about books. We love to read. We read too much. We talk too much. About the too much that we've read. Which is why we've created the Weirdo's Book Club.

Join us. A space for the lonely outsider to feel accepted and appreciated. A place for the person who'd love to be in a real book club, but doesn't like wine or nibbles. Or being around other people. Is that you? Join us. Check out our Instagram at Sarah and Carriad's Weirdo's Book Club for the upcoming books we're going to be discussing. You can read along and share your opinions.

Or just skulk around in your raincoat like the weirdo you are. Thank you for reading with us. We like reading with you. This week's book guest is Tom Lake by Anne Patchett. What's it about? A middle-aged mother tells her daughter's a love story from before she met their father. What qualifies it for the weirdo's book club?

Well, everyone is quite happy in it, which is weird. In this episode we discuss acting. Sarah's beautiful singing voice. Being invisible. And our new book-based musical, the literary libretto. Am I the guest? You're the guest. I've drank too much hot chocolate.

It's very on brand. I feel a bit sick. I just suddenly fell a bit sick. Yeah, so we're going to be seeing Carriad real time coming up on sugar. Our book guest this week. An orgasmic sigh from Carriad Lloyd. Can we just have a moment for how good this book guest is? Let's tell everyone what the book guest is.

It's Tom Lake. Not the author. That's the title. It's a really confusing title. Every time you try and recommend it, they go, Tom, late. Anne Patchett. By Anne Patchett.

And then you have to say, no, Tom, Tom, Lake, it's a thing by Anne Patchett. Sunday Times bestseller, New York Times bestseller, and Anne Patchett, obviously, award awarding one of the best books I've read in a long time, sorry. Oh, she hasn't even wait. She couldn't even wait. I just want to be on there after New York bestseller. I was like, Sarah Pascal's one of the best books I've read a long time. Let's find out what the book is about, Carrie had.

Best book ever read. Well, I just wanted to preemptive. Because, because. I agree with you. Go back. Some people might be listening to this. thinking, oh, I haven't read that yet. I've heard a lot of people recommended it. Lots of people that I've, when I was reading it, because I was reading it at work,

oh, I've heard that's really good. They might want to stop the podcast. Yeah, oh. That's why I mean. Wait, if this is what I'm going to say, you listen to us, if you listen to us regularly, firstly, thank you. Secondly, if you were someone like, oh, I'm not sure, but only by this one. Yeah.

Like, 100% by this one. If you only have time, space, inclination to read one book a month, one book every six months. One book a year. This is one of the ones. Buy this one. Like the appeal by Janice Hallet. Everyone will enjoy this. If you have been in a reading slump,

here's the gift to get you out of it. If you feel like, what can I read that's going to make me feel like there are people out there who can still craft words, is that they are master bakers and care of sentence and deliver that to me, like the best food you've ever eaten. But more than that, can I say? Yes. Because it's a wonderful point and it wasn't wrong. There's so many horrific things happening in the world in life.

Yes. which is, I'm not saying nothing sad ever happens. No. But it is a nourishing, soul-filled, love, family. And you feel positive throughout it, even when sad things happen. And that's very rare,

and I'm not saying all books should be happier. Of course not. She talks about that lot. But how wonderful to find one. Does she? Yeah, that she's known, someone described her tone as decent, steady and unthreatening

with a low hum of intelligence that is somehow rooted in the old-fashioned friendly but steely American decorum that spawned Louisa May Alcott. That was a guardian quote. And I thought, oh. The Guardian loved telling women their low-level intelligence.

Don't they? Don't they love to tell us we hide it under a bushel? You'd never notice unless you listened to her. So modest and demure. You know one of the things about that. Underrated intelligence.

It's like, stop rating people's intelligence then. She's so intelligent. I read that this morning that this obsession of genius is very male and it's funny that the people who deemed Joni Mitchell a genius were men almost as if to believe like that's why I like her.

She's in the club. She's a genius. She's one of us. I thought, that's interesting. Anyway, yes, but what I was backing up is what you were saying is that there is like a solidness to this book that in our current times, which obviously we have to be present to, we have to pay attention to. But we know it's exhausting to hold all that.

And it's our escapism. We might not want to watch wars, violence, or read about trauma, death, etc. You might want to break. So to have something which feels like someone, someone who isn't self-destrable, instructive telling you about their life is so good for you. Storytelling in the purest form of like, sit down, sit y'all down. I'm going to tell y'all story. Well, actually, don't sit down.

Get out that ladder. Pick some cherries. Yes. Because the storytelling is sort of going on doing a family harvest on a cherry orchard with three daughters. Yeah. It's so Shikovian without pretending that it's not being. Is it Shikovian or Shikovian? Chikovian?

Either way. Either way. Anton. Shekhov. Not Michael. Anton. Yes. So yeah, it's set in Michigan. Who's Michael?

Oh, he's related to Anton and he's the acting expert. Oh, is he? Yes, because somebody I know recently was asked to do a Chekhov workshop and they started hurriedly reading all of Chekhov's works. And when they got there, the woman was like, no, I wanted a Michael Chekhov acting workshop. Okay, that is the most middle-class disaster I've ever heard of. Some people have terrible lives, Sarah. I've prepared the wrong Shikov.

The wrong Shagov! I won't be able to show myself in society for a good fortnight. Can you believe I booked a Chekhov workshop and he had done Anton not Michael? Oh! I hate it when that happens. Anyway, so it's about this woman called Lara. Most of the stories, she's older. She's talking to her three grown-up daughters

who during the pandemic have had to come back to the cherry orchard to help pick the cherries because they don't have any workers because of the pandemic. And she starts telling them about what happened when she was younger. Yeah, they're asking her about a famous actor that she used to know. That she once dated. That's what they know. She used to know, yes.

Okay, so that's the setup. Yeah. Which sounds like not much. Now go about the beginning. Because I feel like you need that to be too. It starts with an audition in a high school gym for the play Our Town. Very, very famous. I'd never heard of it.

Judy Blume sets a book with someone who's in Our Town. Does she? So you had heard of it for Judy? I knew it from childhood. I've never heard of it. I've never heard of it. This place has no atmosphere. It's about, no, maybe it's that Judy Blume.

That's a girl who's in our town. God, I've never heard of it. He's a very famous American player. But they're performing it on the moon, and that's the irony of it. So Thornton Wilder is a very famous American playwright who wrote a play called Our Town. And in the book, Tom Lake, our character is auditioning to be in Our Town. But the play is real. Originally, she's a high schooler helping to run the auditions.

And so this is the point that I fell in love with the book. And I knew that I would probably love it because I love the Dutch House so much. So I've never read anything else. I think you're going to work your pants. I'm literally buying. I bought Belcanto and it's sat there glistening at me. Isn't it amazing? The doors that open when you realize, oh, I'm going to read everything this.

novelist has written. And it's so nice to find someone. You're not like, oh, it's a bit like Hilary Mantell. So that's quite nice because I like her. You're like, no, this is brand new. This is fresh. I'm going to be buying all these albums. I'm going to listen to these singles that Unpatchett drops. I haven't to look forward to. Yeah. When I fell in love with it, you know, obviously it's all well written. But it was the sitting on a chair, watching people acting, dissecting why they can't act. And I was just there for it. I'm there for the Amdram. I'm there for the ambition. So how did we meet. We were both in a play. We walked home from rehearsals and we dissected how people could act. Play called out. It's good. Not that dissimilar to.

Our town? I think quite dissimilar. Do you think? Yeah. Settlers, setting up a new environment. Devised for an Australian playwright. No, very different. Yeah, okay.

Yeah. They both begin with hour. Let's agree with that. We walked home dissecting how some people can't act. And that's what bonded us. But the ambition that brings you to Amtrams, that's what I loved about this is, they're there because they want something. And for a teenage girl to be watching going, do less, do less.

Oh God, that's so awful. watching what they were trying to show you when the words would have done it. And so by the end of the audition process, she realizes she's going to just go up there and say it how it should be said. And she goes up past her best friend who's also supposed to be helping. But her best friend doesn't realize we're auditioning. Her best friend is sort of flirting with a boy. Yeah.

And she just walks on stage and is like, I'm going to audition for Emily, which is kind of the ingenue part. Yeah. And she's heard like 10 girls do it badly. And she's like, I know what, because she essentially is Emily. She essentially is an all-American girl. She knows what that innocence needs. and she walks on stage and they're like, wow, this girl's amazing.

But up to that point, she's never thought about acting or doing it before. No. No. So it flicks back from this start of her becoming an actress. And then it flicks back to her as a much older woman with her three grown-up daughters. They're in their 20s. Emily, the oldest. Named after that character.

Named after that car, set to inherit the cherry farm. Masey wants to be a vet. You know, just deals with animals, not people. And then she has a younger daughter now who wants to be a girl. wants to be an actor. Yes. And who's sort of got thwarted ambitions because of COVID. Yeah, she's at drama school.

So this telling of her mom's stories sort of fascinating to her, but a point's quite painful. Yeah, I loved that so much. It's not a spoiler because it happens quite early on, but she does a school production. Yep. And essentially, because of someone else who has a relative who's brought along, a Hollywood casting director is in the audience and goes, okay, we've got, you know, come to L.A., we've got an audition for you. Is that university?

but it's still a production of our town. Yeah, that's the second one, isn't it? She does it at school, and then she does it, do it again or something like that, and then she gets seen and sent, basically is like a 17, 18 year old to LA to do a film. And all three daughters,

oh, I'm like, okay, come on. I just the writing, Sarah. Yeah. The characters, I actually feel, I actually feel very well. Yeah. Is this the hot chocolate or is this the remembering Tom Lake? No, this is just how much I love this fucking book.

I haven't loved a book like this for so long. The characters are so distinct. Yes. And real and nuanced and flawed. And you love them. Very real. Like three sisters. I really,

really wept actually. Oh, wept. I wept because there was a moment where one of the daughters is acting out. Yes. And it's because, you know,

very personal, I don't want to say this about this, something very personal with biggest happens. She hasn't told her mum about it. It's good news. But in that very, that way where sometimes

you don't want your parents' reaction to ruin the thing. You want for you for 24 hours. Her sister tells her, she realizes, her mom knows. She sort of, she bursts into tears and her mom just hugs her understanding, understanding what it's like to have a mom and it'd be difficult. And that just made me, I just wept because it was just such good parenting. Oh, she's a great parent. Yeah.

But also she's not like perfect. She's wrestling. And because you're in her head, she's talking to the girls and then you get her thinking. She's omitting details. And she was to say, oh, I can't tell them that. I don't. So it's like, how as a mother do you tell them who you are or who you were without protecting, you have to protect them at the same time. And whilst protecting them and whilst giving them good life advice. And I think that's such good parenting. And it's also such good storytelling because what we end up with is this staggered. I mean, it is sequential. We're in the real time. We're in the past time. We've started at high school. We're going to end in the present day. But it's staggered as she sort of in chunks is telling her daughters when they're together.

And in between she's remembering the bits she didn't tell them. Yeah. So we, the reader, get the version she's telling them. So for instance, sex. She's not saying to her children and then we banged, but she is telling us. Yes. And also it's so nice because it's like, you know, they're picking cherries and they're kind of, the other thing I love so much. So the other thing is like they're having a pandemic that a lot of people did have, that it was scary but also fine. Like they are fine.

Their family are fine. They're not being physically affected by it, but they are being physically curtailed by the pandemic, which I think not to obviously despise the horrific experiences lots of people had. lots of people also had a pandemic that was sort of weird like a holiday that didn't end and so Laura Lara is struggling with this as well is she so happy to have her children back and every day they're like mom tell us what happened the next time you saw this person you started dating

this actor who we discover becomes very famous and so the girls have an awareness of him separate to the mother they've grown up watching his films and what's happened is one day their dad mentioned you know your mum used to date him Yeah. And actually the backstory with the dad I thought was so interesting because for a while he's just this like really good man who's out farming. Oh, sort of 13 hours a day. The development of his character.

Yeah. Did you finish the book in love with Joe? Which of the male characters? Would you have gone for Hollywood actors? Is it Sebastian? Oh, St. Sebastian. So we have Tom, no, sorry, Tom Lake is actually, we should say it is a place. It's where they go to do rep.

It's where she goes to rep theatres where she meets Duke, who is our Hollywood actor. Yeah. Duke is the classic bad boy Hollywood actor Lara is too young to really know quite what he's up to and she falls head over heels for him and has this wild wild summer of doing rep theatre with him his brother Sebastian St Sebastian turns up I related hard to St Sebastian

yeah because I'm not the tornado I'm next to the tornado that's my that's my understanding okay what I find incredible about that is Sebastian is the most goodest person in the world what can I say I define myself by my reality who I define myself by the best character in the book the best male character. He is.

He's so... Yeah, but nobody wants to date, Sebastian. He's not the fun, exciting one. He doesn't bring the drama. Oh, you don't think Laura and Sebastian were in love? Oh, yes, but at the beginning, do you know what I mean? I think it's impossible not to be in love with Sebastian. Oh, but I would say I'm...

Well, you asked me who I liked. I like the stealthy one. We also said, you were the best character. I don't think it's the best character. And also, the story is about Duke. Like, Duke is the hero. And that's why I think so interesting, she is showing you hero and psychic. Like she's, she's telling you a story and doing an exercise in storytelling, and it's not irritating.

My husband, obsessed with story, has a substack, the midpoint, all about story. And he read this and he kept gasping. God, what? And he said the exact midpoint of this book is when you find out about Joe, like a turn of Joe. And he was like, this is like the most tight, technical, but it doesn't, you know, sometimes you feel, I'm reading a very technical novel. Oh, yes, it's very good storytelling. Yes, well done.

It's so full of heart and emotion Who did you like boys Let's go back to that Well of course I like Duke Of course I like Duke But that for me See you're judging me flying to Vasia No I was trying to tease you and it didn't work

I'm not very good at being teased As a general rule I don't read it as teasing I'm working on it I know it's a problem Yeah oh god I mean Duke is the kind of person So pre all of this success

I never would have gone a Duke I never would have destroyed my life for You and Duke, 100%. I would always be too scared of that tornado. I'd be friends with a tornado. I'd never go for main character. You would be drinking the tequila to keep up when he needs to be authentically drunk in the play. No, I'm the sober person.

I'm pretending because he needs someone sober. Yeah. That's my role. I know my role. I'm Sebastian. I'm good. Not fun, but I'm good. You would have gone with Duke, 100%.

I mean, I just would have followed him round. There's the whole personality. Also, the thing that Anne Patrick writes in an earlier male relationship as well, which is men who look you in the eye and make you feel. like you have all of their focus. I can't. I can't. I can't not be deeply affected by that.

Even when I know the reminipative person who does it with other women. And there is a lot of game. I can't pay it, Sarah. I can't pay it. Even in amateur genetics, you've got power dynamics, director, producer, perhaps,

more experienced people. There's an age divide. I'd say amateur is exactly the same. It's just, it's a hobby or you're being paid for it. But the same, the director acting like they fucking own everything and they're a god and all the actors, treating each other in the same status as the play

so we know if you're a made in a play, no one talks to you. And if you're higher up in the list, people are, and the same in television, if you're a bit part, people act like you're not very important, even though, you're like, I've only got two lines, but it doesn't mean I'm less of a person today, but you know you are less of a person. You walk onto the bus with your plate,

and you can see them being like, oh, are you allowed in here too? Yeah, or people don't bother, they just don't bother speaking to you because it's like we're human beings and we live for status. And when you're filming something or doing a play, the status is divided very clearly, So you can't help but go, well, I know I'm not supposed to talk to you. I'm the lead.

And people don't admit that, but they do. It's why it's so disruptive when there is an essay who's really confident and loud. Because it's kind of great. It's kind of great with someone going, oh, guess what? Yeah, disruptive. And then you can see people being like, oh, I was expecting because you're backstage. And you'd have had this experience, but if you're a main part on something and then you go to be a small one day on something.

Oh, yuck, gross. Straight down the old. Yeah, you feel the slippery slope. You've come from a world where everyone's like, hey, hey, and you think, oh, this is what people like, they're nice. And then you go to be a bit back to, like, plastic chair. Plastic chair, people not asking you your name and makeup and hair and costume, just being like, this is what you're wearing, go away.

Not everyone, most makeup and costume are amazing. I once saw someone in one of the essays was trying to say that their costume didn't fit and seeing the costume lady who'd been so lovely to everyone else being like, no one's looking at you. Did this book make you feel dreamy for acting? No, I love touch. No. No.

No, no, thank you. You can't be dreaming for acting. It's too painful. Discuss. Oh, I think I can be dreamy for acting because I am not going to go anywhere near it. Ever again? Are you done? Yeah, oh, I'm so, I've been done for a decade, yeah.

I'm not done. I'm not up the closet. And, you're still an actor. And Steen, my husband is still an actor. And so often I only see, yeah, the harsh side, which is the self-tapes. So the idea of a play and rehearsing and plays, plays. plays and especially, you know, rep seasons. Yeah.

And this, obviously, we're strong, Tom Lake sounds fucking idyllic. Like they're doing cabaret and our town. Lakes are swimming in. It's oiling hot. Lots and lots of people there. Just hanging out. Freezers full of vodka. They're just having a fucking great time.

She made rep sound amazing. Yes. And in particular, this rep, which is quite near New York. And lots of people, industry will still come so the actors aren't miserable being there. Yeah, they're in Michigan, aren't they? It's actually very beautiful. and it is full of cherry-fraff. And swimming.

Yeah, swimming, so much swimming. Yeah, so much jumping in. Lake drunk swimming and then drying off and then running to rehearsal. Yeah. Quick damn to tennis. Oh, quick so much tennis. A lot of tennis in this book. Yeah.

Why are you done with acting? Why am I done with acting? Yeah. Oh, because I'm not good at it and don't enjoy it. Okay, that's fair. It's a healthy decision. Yeah. But you used to act.

I used to want to act. Oh, okay. Discuss that. Oh, I had this huge breakthrough in therapy. About four or five years ago where the reason stand-up made a lot of sense was because I wanted myself to be seen and the reason I was a bad actor was I wanted myself to be seen so I didn't

hide myself and pretend to be someone else I was like hello I'm Lady Macbeth I'm from Montford Sarah they should do that version at the national call Sam Mendez now that's a good version yeah we did discuss this because I don't want to be seen which is why I can't do stand-up

which I think that's I think for lots of people that's why they would think stand-up would be scary and they would think it would be more rejecting and acting is attractive yeah yeah that's what it is that's why I did character stand-up How did it make you feel the way she was described reacting? Because I thought the character of Lara was so mentally healthy. Yes.

And especially because she lets us know as the reader, I am happy now. Yes. I'm okay. What she was telling me in the story, she loved her kids so much. She loved where she lived. She's like 60. She's like she's gone through fucking life. So she's remembering.

So her talking about acting just seems so healthy where it was like, she didn't love acting. She loved the play at our town. Yeah. And she loved the character of Emily. This is the bit that broke me. Yeah. especially as someone who has a complicated relationship with acting. She knew she could play Emily.

Yeah. That's what she could do. She couldn't do other stuff. And it was shown so brilliantly because she did a film where she basically played a version of Emily, that she's waiting for it to come out when she's doing this season at Tomlake. And then the next play that she's going to be expected to perform, the minute rehearsals start is clear, I can't do this. And that's when Duke starts to lose interest because she's not the Emily anymore.

And that's another thing, again, because you're not your part. Yeah. And when you have those on-set flirtations with people, that happens. and you realise they saw you as your part. What's the famous quote? They go to bed with Lady Macbeth. No, they go to bed with Gilda and they wake up with Rita Hayworth. That's what she used to say.

Like they want me to be Gilda, which is, you know, she was the most beautiful, sexiest woman that's ever been on film. I love Rita Hayworth so much. Have you ever seen Gilda? No, of course I haven't. I don't know who Gilder. I thought you were saying Glynda wrong. Who's Gilda?

It's a famous film. It's a film that made her. You know Rita Hayward. The name of the film is Gilda. Yeah, yeah. Gilgamesh. No, that's an ancient poem. And she's, you would have seen the clip.

It's the film they watch in, um... Cabaret. What's the film where they escape from the prison? Shawshank Redemption. Oh. You know the film that the prisoners are watching and the woman keeps coming up and flicking her hair and she's really beautiful on all the prisons.

That's, well, it's a very famous scene that she... And she's the red-headed Marilyn Monroe with her, like, her and Marilynneau, like, yeah, I know, I've heard her name. Oh, she's stunning. And Gilda was like her, yeah, what everyone knew her, for. But in the film, it's obviously it's deeply sexist 1950s film and she's just like a sexy lady that doesn't really need or want anything.

And that's what she used to say. Men would go to bed with Gilda, thinking they'd got the character and wake up and she's obviously a human. And obviously, she wasn't a robot. Anyway, that's what yeah, she moves to this play. And I think that's, because I am an actor, but I'm

not like an actor. I do lots of other things because I'm not a good enough actor to be an actor. I think if you had the confidence you have now, when we're left you have now and you know the industry and you know that you are good if you had that confidence when we left university do you think yeah I think I think I think make me want to cry a little bit no I think this is this is sort of one of the real difficulties about life like as a young person it's so difficult to back yourself yeah if you don't have you know an acting family who then I'm just

going to back you and automatically we've seen oh it just happened you know what it's also what this book relates to it's not confidence I didn't know who I was yeah and I now know who I am which has taken what a podcasting to say and I now know who I am and I now know who I am Subscribe, like, and rate. Who carry edits. Five stars. Five stars. Please, five stars.

I didn't know who I was. And when you're younger, partly what I was doing was using acting to hide who I was. You have to know who you are because you're going to disappear. Yes. And that's the thing with acting. Good actors, when you meet them, they have like a neutrality about them because they have a readiness to disappear into a character.

And I never wanted to disappear. I didn't want to be seen, but I didn't want to be invisible. Yeah, that's tricky. Harry Walter, who we interviewed. Friend of the podcast. Deep friend. So this is sort of 20 years ago. She wrote a book called Other People's Shoes about acting.

It's a fucking brilliant book. As I said to her, it's brilliant. But she, in the book, goes to audition for Lambda. And she says, she writes down. They said, you know what? We love you. Come back in a year. And you can come in them, but feel like you need to live for a bit.

So she went off to France to just live for a bit. And I wanted to throw the book across the room. because that was not my experience. And can I, can I, you know what, I'm going to do a shout-out. I recently had to have an audition with Stephen Frears. And I said in the 45-minute audition, that came up. And he said, well, yes, she's very good. I was like, right, yeah, fair point.

She's very good. I remember you reading that book and saying, because you were reading it from a position of, oh, I want to be an actor, perhaps here's some insight into the industry. How'd you do it? And it was that I went over there and got this. And then over there. And then they said, come and do this over here.

Oh yeah, she just got work. And it was rep, West End, Broadway. Films. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Yeah, doors open. Yeah. But then I think testament to what some people in the business sometimes tell you, which is hard to hear, I don't think I'm an actor actor in the way that Laura also

knows she's not an actor. And I think that's good to know that. I think that's the only way you can have a happy life. Yeah, yeah. Unless you are, if you are an actor, some people are, they just can't do anything else. Yeah. And you see them, they almost can't be themselves. Yeah.

And so they need a play. They need a thing. Juliet Stevenson who we've both worked with. There are just people who, and of course it's a toolbox from having worked and worked and worked, but there is something magic she's doing. I don't know how anyone starts to learn to do that.

I don't really learn, but also what else could that person, like, as in like she just is an actor in a way that I feel like you just are a comedian. Like there's something, like I feel everyone has a language that they can speak.

And when they speak it, it's a delight to hear. And that language might be dance or singing or comedy. Oh, that's a nice world to live in. Do you not have that with some people? I know someone. They do lots of other things, but when they sing, they make sense. Is that me as well?

It's not you, Sarah. You often refuse to sing when I try and sing with you. No, they sing and they have such a pure voice that I think, if you only sang, you would make sense 100% the time. When they're doing other things, sometimes I'm like, that's confusing that you're doing that. Sing it. Sing it. When they sing, I forgive them literally everything.

And I think if you cut someone open, at the core is like the language they should be speaking. I think mine is improv. I think like when I'm improvising, people go, oh, there's something really special about the person that they don't often do with the other things I do. But I feel like that's how you feel about comedy. It's like that's the instrument I'm meant to be playing.

No, I think it's singing, but... Well, then why won't you sing with me every time? Because it's too easy. Thank you for reading with us. It's too easy. No, it's because I think I'm not a good enough singer. No, I'm not as good as you. No, no, it's not that.

It's because I find singing too. vulnerable. I spoke to Sophie Ellis Bexter about it on her podcast. She said, why aren't you a singer then? It's just like I've got no skin on. Whereas comedy is like you've made yourself a bit of fake skin. But also that's the language that works for you. That have being able to communicate and have a bit of skin works for you.

Maybe you should do like language readings. Oh, I love that. To tell people what they should do. Yeah, because I think there'll be people listening going, well, I haven't found out my thing. I'm 28 years old. I'm working at temping. Like, what's my language? You can speed it up for them. Okay, I need to observe you for...

You'll have to audition them and like all the singing, dancing. Improv. Improv. Writing. Actual other languages. Yeah, I feel just like, it's like finding your groove, isn't it? There's lots of things that it could be. And Patchett's thing is writing.

Oh, yeah. Also, can we mention, do you know that she owns a bookshop? No, of course I don't. She owns a bookshop. Parnas's bookshop, bookstores that she invested. I think she was helping someone run it. And now eventually they stepped back and she, a lot of her job is running a bookshop. Wow.

Yeah. And she says, she was like, in an interview, she's like, to say that Patchett is evangelical about books is no mere cliche. In one of her essays, she compares her zeal to that of a Harry Krishna devotee. She met many years ago who spent every day proclaiming his love of God to strangers in Chicago airport. I would stand in the airport to tell people how much I love books, reading them, writing them, making sure other people felt comfortable reading and writing them. Oh, wow.

Can she be our friend? Oh, my God. But also, I mean, I think that's the generosity with which she makes that point. point is the generosity she writes with. And in this book, it's a generous book. It's really generous. And I read a lot of interest. She was saying, she was like, I'm not cool.

It's not racy. It's not dramatic. But this is also. I think it is dramatic. But it's also real. She's like, this is some people's life and that's what I do. And I'm like, but you're that good at writing. What does it be like to be that?

Well, you're that good at singing. How does it be to be that good at writing? I think when something is just Godgiven, you don't really take it for granted. Do you know what's annoying? No one on this podcast has ever actually heard you sing, and I have. And you have the most insane and beautiful voice. I'm thinking of recording an album or something. I would, look, I'll do the choreography because I can dance.

That's true. Your voice is so good. We'll do a weirdos book club tour, but it's a musical. Yes, please. About books. Oh, that we should do that. Write some songs about books. Just books in three and a half minutes as a song.

No one's done that, have they? Books. Books. Boogie, buggy, buggy. Individual books. Yes. Oh, my God. And then the style of music will be dictated by the style of writing in the book. I think we've definitely given people the sense of how much we love this book. And I also don't want to go into too much plot because I want you to read it.

I want everyone to read it. And this is what I want to say. So on sewing bee, as I started reading this, clang. Sorry, that was a tiny needle. I dropped. I don't know why I made such a big noise. Sowing machine. Patrick is one of the judges on sewing bee.

Drop your singer. Had not only, you know, Patrick and I have very different people. Singer sewing machines. That could be a fun cover of your album. A singer-sowing machine. I get sponsored. Yeah, no, because you sing and you do sewing bee. Sorry.

And there's a machine called a singer. Yes, yeah. Okay. Patrick was saying that he was recommended the book when he did a book talk. Like a member of the audience recommended it to him. So he'd bought it and read it and then bought it for his girlfriend. And then she was reading it and he needed to read it again. So I bought another copy so they could read at the same time.

And then people in the office as we were walking past someone, my friend Anna, she was reading it then. and we couldn't talk to each other because we were slightly different points in the book. I kept saying to Ben, like, I kept asking where he was and I was like, oh God, I can't even, I can't believe you're not even there. Until it's done. And then we can all, then we can all gush, even more.

I can't wait for you to read this book. And then everyone in the office was sort of like buying it for their holidays and getting ready. And that thing, when a book is contagious. Perfect holiday. Perfect holiday. I actually did read this on holiday and it was perfect. Perfect. Thumbed up for that.

Yeah. I also just, I do nourishing is the world I kept thinking of because I think what we put into our, what we consume in every way matters. Our book diet. It matters. Everyone's talking about the gut bacteria. Yes. I'm talking about brain bacteria.

Book bacteria. Brain bacteria, yes. This is what I'm always banging on about. Because when you're living with a character who's making decisions based on love and wellness, and that's not an explicit thing. No, yeah. But there were. She does drop in occasions.

That's why I bang on about kids books diet so much. That's why I get so angry about the rubbish. Because it's like there's Coke and Super Noodles out there. And we have to make sure that they're also getting the nourishing broth. You're absolutely right. very occasionally she was just so, it was so rare. But the character of Lara would give this huge piece of wisdom advice based on reflection and having lived a long life.

And I loved it because it wasn't a book full of that. I think it's just love this phrase so much. Publicity was the most acting I'd ever done in my life. That's brilliant. That's brilliant. This is an amazing one. So the three girls are like trying to ask all this stuff. But when did you date him and you were smoking and why didn't you tell us?

Why didn't you tell us? and they're all like casting her. So you just, you met him and you went for a walk and she says, I nod, picking, picking, that is all I have told them. And now I can feel them bearing down on me

as if they are once again crawling into my lap, pushing my book aside, trampling my sewing. Mummy, mummy, mummy, they cry. Beautiful. So beautiful. Fuck. To understand what it's like to be a parent for that long.

To understand that you are constantly their babies and they're also adults and you have to hold both those things at the same time. Give this woman. Oh, here's a line. I loved. Just reading bits of you. Yeah, you were Duke and then he was dead. I shake my head.

A child's ability to misunderstand is limitless, even when she is no longer a child. It's just so deftly undersawed. Yes, yes. And just so calm. I found the book so calm. And she's just telling you these facts about life, not in a dramatic way,

not in a Duke Hollywood film star. And just so like, this is just what it's like and it's long. Yeah. Life is long and there's a lot of time to live this and make mistakes and you're rushing. I think in terms of how heartbreak stories are taught, having it as a reflective story from someone who is then happy much later is such a healthier way to talk about heartbreak

because heartbreak is part of the root. A true way to talk about heart break. To someone who doesn't break your heart, but we don't necessarily always tell stories like that. Well, we focus on the drama and the fireworks because that's what we think is interesting, where she's like, I'm going to tell you about the fireworks from like five years ago. And the break and the pain. And so people who have been affected and are heartbroken, we make things about them. Not people who are married with kids and happy.

Yes, that's what I also loved. I love this line. It may have been the story you told yourselves, but it wasn't the story we told you. So just because they hadn't realised the order of things and how their parents had met, they'd done this other order of things. Yes, that's it. And she realizes that even though she did tell them how they met, they had made another narrative in their head. Which is really common with children and parents.

Of course, we all do that. What's so interesting, we do that to our parents. And then when you have children, you can see them doing it to you. And you're like, why are you making me not a whole human? Yeah. But of course, I have to, because you're not a whole human. You're just a mother to them. They need you to be a mother.

They don't need you to have lived and laughed and smoked and jumped into lakes. They need you to be safe and boring. Which is the power and the difficulty of mother. It's so brilliant. I cried when it finished because I missed them. Yeah. And I still miss them. And like, even getting to talk about them today feels like,

I've visited some old friends. When can you say that about a book? And it's pretty like guys. It's not even heavy. Not really, really. And as you say, you don't want it to end. Yeah, but it's not like, you know, sometimes a worthy book. And also, it's perfect ending, right?

It's perfect. Because you can have a really amazing book where the ending's like, okay, and then it had to stop. The storytelling, the structure that she does, the way she's the introduction of which, and she holds so many characters. And when we go back to her grandmother and her own childhood, like, that is, The weaving of storytout, I've never read a book like this when it's just like, how are you doing that? How are you putting all these elements together?

And I'm able to understand them and I care about everybody. And yeah, I closed the book and I cried and I thought, I'll never be able to read that again for the first time. Like love. Like love. Oh, well, I think I will because I remember so little of a book two months later. I've been here long enough to understand the difference between daughters and mothers and daughters and fathers. We promised to wait. Secrets are at times a necessary tool for peace.

That's gorgeous. It's gorgeous. clever. Yeah. Oh, this is what I wanted to read you. She writes when she can and always without a contract. I never owe people work.

The writers she knows, who are the most protective of their time are the least productive, she says. I get the job done. I don't procrastinate. All right. Creativity, inspiration, all those words that meant so much when I was 20.

Now I go to work. I show up in the morning. I'm going to get it done. She knows she can write. I'm not worried about if I can do this. It's more that I can have an idea that seems worth my time and worth your time.

I have to think this really matter. I was like, oh, just listening to her talk about writing. Yeah, very pragmatic. Never being like, oh, they've paid me, I've got to do it. It's like, no, when I want to do it. Obviously, you have to be pretty successful to get that point. Yeah, that's the privilege of money. Yeah.

But she's earned that. She's earned it. Even if it was inherited, she's earned it. Right, so what's the musical about books can be called? Books, exclamation mark? Reading, exclamation mark. I think there's a play on libretto. Oh, librietto.

Librietto. There you go. I'm not very good at playing on words. It's not my strengths anymore. Oh, there was such a good page in Pepper Pig yesterday. You know, because I know the Pepper Pig's mom is a writer. I'm past Pepper Pig stage. Okay.

Well, I'm thinking of putting it on my Instagram as writer's advice. Okay, okay. Because Pepper's worried that she won't be able to write a story. And her mom who writes stories, she goes, well, the first thing you have to do is tell yourself that you can write stories. Everyone can write stories. And the second thing you have to do is to say your stories are good enough for people to read. And then it's so much easier to write a good story.

I was like, well, there you go. That's all the advice you need. That's Pepper Pig's Mum. That's all you need. Do you think that was the script writer? Do you think that was Moena, who actually voices Pepper Pig's mom? It was a book, and I don't think Moena Banks writes the books, although I'm sure it's inherited wisdom.

From Moena, from the amazing Moena Banks. I told you the other day that I was watching Pepper Pig with Theo, and then I watched her episode of Slow Horses and, like, who has that expansive a career? Oh, I can tell you, I watched Georgia Pritchett's episode of Sean the Sheep. She writes on Sean the Sheep, and there's an episode. Between Succession, that's amazing. And there's an episode about pizzas, which if you've watched on The Sheep a lot, you'll know. It's phenomenal, no words.

They start a pizza company, gets out of hand. It's so good. The storytelling is perfect. And at the end, it said, written by Georgia Pritcher. And then she writes Succession. And I was like, those people care about stories. They don't care. Like, they're not judging, oh, this is for kids or this, this.

They're just going to tell you a great story. Look, we fucking loved it. Yep. That's the review. Stick that on the back of the book. Thank you for listening to the Weirdo's Book Club. Carriead's Children's Book, The Christmas Wish Tastrophe, is available to buy now.

Sarah's novel Weirdo is also out in paperback and available to buy now. You can find out all about the upcoming books we're going to be discussing on our Instagram at Sarah and Carriads Weirdo's Book Club. Thank you for reading with us. We like reading with you. I can't see.