Sara & Cariad's Weirdos Book Club - Welcome Back Weirdos!

Episode Date: April 9, 2026

Sara and Cariad are back with another series of truly excellent, weird and wonderful reads and a host of brilliant guests lined up this series!Welcome back to the book club where you don't even have to have read the book to join in! In this episodeSara and Cariad discuss books they've read in the break, the National Year of Reading, Odysseus and maggots.Thank you for reading with us. We look forward to reading with you (or not) this series!Follow Sara & Cariad’s Weirdos Book Club on Instagram @saraandcariadsweirdosbookclub and Twitter @weirdosbookclub Recorded and edited by Naomi Parnell for Plosive.Artwork by Welcome Studio.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, Amy Gledhill here. And Harriet Kemsley. From the Single Ladies in Your Area podcast. And we've got some exciting news. We've sorted your Valentine's Day plans again, as we're doing a special live recording of the podcast on Valentine's Day. A.k.a. Saturday the 14th of February. Yes, we've got a lovely venue.

It's at the Underbelly Boulevard in Soho, London. And we're on late at 9.15pm. So if you have a terrible date booked in, you can go to that, and then join us after for a debrief. Oh, I mean, I'm excited. We had so much fun at the last Valentine's Day show. Yes, and we both absolutely overshared. Will we do it again?

You'll have to come along and find out. Okay, yes, yes, we will. So that's Saturday, 14th of February at Underbelly Boulevard, and you can get tickets at plosive.com. Sarah Pascoe. And I'm Carrie Adloid. And we're weird about books. We love to read.

We read too much. We talk too much. About the too much that we've read. Which is why we created the weirdos. Book Club. A space for the lonely outsider to feel accepted and appreciated. Each week we're joined by amazing comedian guests and writer guests to discuss some wonderfully and crucially weird books, writing, reading and just generally being a weirdo. You don't even need to have read the books to join in. It will be a really interesting, wide-ranging conversation and maybe you'll want to

read the book afterwards. We will share all the upcoming books we're going to be discussing on our Instagram, Sarah and Carriads, Weirdo's Book Club. Thank you for reading with us. We like Reading with you. Hello. Hello. Welcome back to the Weirdo's Book Club. Yes, thank you so much for your amazing messages and book suggestions over the break. We have thoroughly enjoyed going through them and starring writing down the ones that are

peaking our interests. And thank you so much. While we were on a break, you joined our Patreon and enjoyed the extra content. We appreciate you. We appreciate you. We send you good vibes. Good reading vibes. And also, if you're new to the podcast, welcome.

Come on in. This is the place for the lonely outsider to feel accepted and appreciated. And crucially, it's a book club where you don't have to have read the book. Because we've read it for you. And hopefully you might want to read it afterwards. Yeah, or sometimes one of us haven't read it. Yeah, we're doing more of that. We're doing more of that.

Because there's only so much time in the day. It's only so much time. We all have the same 24 hours, guys. Some of us don't. Some of us don't have 24 hours. Some of us have 20 minutes. Yeah. And if you've got 20 minutes, welcome.

Welcome, welcome. We're very excited about this series, aren't we? I've got some great guests, some great books coming up. Yes, some really exciting. Some seismic episodes. Ooh, seismic. Gonna send shockwaves. In the book community.

It's going to be front page of the Daily Mail. Oh, my goodness. What are we going to say? Who we interview? Oh, we're both cancelled. We both be doing a bit of side reading. The thing is, we're addicts. Even with this much reading, we have to do professionally.

Just always like, oh, I've got that on my shelf and all. Spent my Waterstones voucher. I spent my Waterstones voucher. Yeah, I love it. No, I didn't have a waterstones, actually. I had a national book token. So I spent it at bookshop.org. Oh, lovely.

Oh, lovely. I love bookshop. Yeah. I've been buying, well, I've been doing a lot of kids middle grade and graphic novel reading. That's what I've been doing. What have you been doing? I read Sarah Hall's Helm. Yes, Helm, yes.

Oh, but you know what I read. And my big treat was the Ian McEwen. Yes. What's it called? This can end. This cannot end. God, I'm terrible at remembering titles. It's in hardback.

It's in hardback. I might not be paperback, but it's dystopian future. literary. It's about books. It's about a poet reading a poem as a gift for his wife on her birthday, 60th birthday. And then people, 100 years in the future, trying to find that poem

which they think is about climate change, which by then happened, the derangement is what they call this period of time, like 1990 to 2030. Oh my God, that's horrible. It's so brilliant. I find it in McKeown quite hard to read. Okay, but you... I feel like he gets under my...

Like as in I think he's a good, such a good writer. He gets under my skin and I feel unnerved. But his last two, I mean, they are, there is an unnerving element, but the piano teacher. Oh yeah, you loved that one. I loved it so much. And now this one, just, what a pleasure. Should we do a McKeown episode, but you read them and you tell me about them? Maybe.

Maybe he'll come on one day. He went to Sussex. That's what I was remember. Did he go to Sussex? I always forget that. That's why I feel like he's one of our gang. You know McEwen, he was at Sussex before us. He was in the Drum Society with us, his name.

God, I just love him. Yeah, I haven't read enough. Yeah. I haven't read enough. And the one I did read, I just felt so cold. He writes such good women, I would say as well. He does like good women, but I left feeling very like. I think you'd like this one so much.

It's about the woman who is the poem. I hate dystopian. But it's not dystopian. It's more just the University of Sussex is at this time the University of the South Downs. Oh, just set there? Well, some of it is because it's scholars at universities. So it's a lot of it set in Oxford as well. But everything's underwater.

I'm not making it sound good. It's not just typing. You are making it sound good. It's really good. I'm just scared. I'm scared. You mustn't be scared. I think in particular you would love it.

Okay, all right. It's really great. I'll give it a go. I'm still... I read a book called The Husband and My Husband written by a French novelist. It's about a woman who's obsessed with her own husband. Oh yeah, you told me about this.

Yeah, and that's quite juicy and interesting. What, like, why is she obsessed with him? She just never went off him. That thing that's supposed to happen, we start taking them a bit for granted. How and why did she never go on? Well, that's what's interesting about it. So she's still, so imagine the cliche of like maybe early in a relationship, you know, you're excited about the time that they come home and making them their best dinner and looking your best for them.

I'm trying to remember. And most people would think, you know, after she's had children, she sort of resents the kids for the time they take her husband away from her. And she's just absolutely obsessed with him. So it doesn't transfer from kids and then become? No. And also then she's sort of doing this quite malevolent things to maintain his interest. and then there's a twist. So it's pretty good.

You can't remember who it's by. We'll put it, we'll find it. A French lady, is that not enough? Simone de Beauvoir. It's like Simone de Beauvoir, Beauvoir de Simone. Yeah. Okay, you've been busy. What else you've been reading?

What else have I been reading? Oh, oh, Tony Interruptor. Yeah? Very, very funny. And sort of fitting some sort of slag enough jazz at the moment in my work in progress. And then, of course, working away through Ulysses. and the Odyssey because they're the

Courses and Odyssey. Well, the Ulysses is based on the Odyssey, which I also haven't read. I've read The Odyssey. Great, okay. We could do an episode on The Odyssey. Okay, so.

I had to do, I had a module at uni on... So the central three characters from the Odyssey, Penelope, Odysseus and Telemachus are the archetypal characters in Ulysses. I definitely don't know that.

Steff and Dead Daedlis. Well, you wouldn't until you started looking into it because something's sort of like just there as a lump. I try to read, what's the other one? So Molly, Bloom is Penelope. I didn't know that.

Stephen Dedalus is Odysseus, making his way back to Molly Bloom. And Telemachus is... Oh, God. Why have I forgotten the name? Achilles? No, in Ulysses. Oh.

Oh, so, no, it's... Leonard Bloom. Stefan Dedalus is Telemachus. That's why I was getting wrong. Sorry, as if someone was screaming then. She's butchering it. This is those classics.

get those names out of your mouth. Get your own. Edisian's sounding in my mum. Yes. Oh, interesting. So in this series, we're going to talk about middle March. I read it,

and you read it a long time ago. Yeah. So, and you are now... Also, my brain is since unread it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I read it and then I've deleted it. Yeah, because who has the... I need it to get re-downloaded.

But you are now going to read Ulysses and that's how I have to... Every year, yes. But at the end of it, you might feel like you want to. And again... Be up for reading the Odyssey again. I really loved the Odyssey. Yeah. Well, there's a really good...

The Ilii added slow. There's a translation that is out now that's really recommended by a woman Yes, I've heard of this. That gives the female characters are more interesting aspects because my first thing when I did start reading Ulysses

was this is not going to pass the Bechdale test. No, no, no. And then a very kind audience member sent me the... Oh, I was in the bookshop in the book in Waterstones in Hampstead and they were telling me about this version. Yeah.

But you know when you're buying so many books, you're like, no, I can't pick up Odyssey. Odyssey right. And it's so flattering that you've looked at my taste and thought, you know what you might also like, it's in my basket so I can actually show it to you, in my Waterstone's basket.

Great app. I've also got Stephen Fry's one. Emily Wilson is her name, the translator. Everyone's raving about it, it seems like. Because I read a pretty good translation of it. I had to do Iliad Odyssey and the Eniad at uni. And I remember that I'm like, fuck, you know, a bit of a trek.

But the Odyssey was got, I remember being like, so excited. Yeah. His monsters and sea benches. So here's the issue though. 20 years Odysseus takes to go back to the Trojan War. And then he goes for six years with Calypso has an affair. While the whole book is about how his wife is faithfully waited for him, Penelope,

everyone wants to marry her. There's no, because it's the days before, I mean, he doesn't write a letter. He doesn't text. He's not sending a pigeon. She doesn't know he's alive. 20 years she waits for him. Have you read the Penelope ad? That one.

Margaret Atwood wrote a version Did she? The Penelope had is Margaret Atwood's version of Penelope Waiting And I did read that a long time ago I remember really enjoying it Yeah I remember really enjoying it Because I read Hag Seed that Margaret Atwood wrote

Which was her version of The Tempest Oh Tempest Ah yes, okay Yeah so I remember really enjoying it But especially if you've had to study those books And they are so fucking male That is nice to be like Oh someone's bothered

All the story's fantastic But you do think I wish I heard more from other characters Yeah she's a great character What was she up to in their 20 years? I've just been relieved to have the whole bed to yourself. The bed's really special because they've built, it's immovable. It's around a tree root and the roots are still in the ground.

Doesn't sound that comfy, does it? No, but it's all to yourself. Yeah, true. Yeah, you smell old husband. This is the days before showers. Oh, they bathed. Yeah, they probably had a little bit of a wash. Oh, no, I think they're quite into it.

Do you reckon? Yeah, yeah. Certain civilisations. Oh, yeah. I've just got confused. Are they ancient Greek or? Greeks, yeah. Yeah, I think the Greeks were pretty into it.

Do you think so? My daughters just had to do ancient Greece. And they've done ancient Roman, ancient Sparta. And she was like, Mom, Sparta, best place to be a woman. Oh, right. They educated the women. They were allowed to be outside of the house without a man. So, you know, like, the culture itself at the time was not.

Yeah. So the writer's not going to be like, hey, what about Penelope's doing? No, exactly. Could not care less. Yeah. She's at home. I have been reading, well, I've been reading for the women's prize. It's a lot of reading, but I've also been reading lots of kids' books and graphic novels. I love the post you did.

Did you like it? I mean, you're recommending all the graphic novels for kids. It took a really long time to do, so thank you. Well, that kind of content people can share, they can save. It's just a gift. It's a generous gift. So this is the National Year Reading, and it's obviously if you work in children's books. But, oh God, if you're getting into it just because it's the big year of it, all right.

Okay. Some of us were here all along. Everyone was just reading it everywhere I go. Sunny, it's so cool. Oh, God. Some of us were doing it when it was Dwee be. Yeah, and we'll still be. So, yeah, it's National Year Reading, which if you're in children's books is a big deal,

because obviously that is where, if you can get a child into reading early, they are more likely to read. And so I was asked to, well, they were just sort of generally asking people, like, for no money, but just, like, post about National Year Reading. And so I did a post on Instagram about graphic novels, because my daughter is dyslexic. She really doesn't like reading books, like, which have no pictures. And I'm a kid that would obsessively,

read books with no pictures. Like I just was just like in a box literally with a like duvet over my head reading. And so it's been quite a hard journey for me because I didn't like really like graphic novels. I just found them a bit bright and noisy. And so I've had to stop being so fucking snobby. And then I've read some really amazing graphic novels recently. And I want to shout out to so I recommended loads on my Instagram post. Um, which look, go look at it. There's the usual, right? There's the dog man, the bunny version. monkey, bumble and snag, Gordon the Goathe,

no, Gordon the goose, is the what I'm looking for. Oh God, I want to look at the post. There's some amazing graphic novels, but there's two American ones that were recommended to me on the post. You love readers. And I love parents who care about reading because so many people commented on that post being like, oh, this is a good one, this is good, don't forget this one, don't forget this one, don't forget

Donuts Squad. There's one called L Defo, which is like, These are like award-winning American graphic novels, so I think much bigger. I had to order it in for the library. L Deffo is this amazing story. It's like, she's a rabbit. It's basically based on her true story

of being deaf in the 70s. So she had like quite big hearing aids and like they had chords coming down and like the box. Do you remember people having that? When I was at primary school, girl had it and it meant the teacher has to wear the box around them as well.

It's called a phonic ear. And I think nowadays you wouldn't have to do that like hearing aids have improved. And it's quite a thick graphic novel, but it's about her being, she had meningitis as a kid and became deaf. And it's about like going to school and trying to make friends and people like being mean to her,

but also like not being able to like a not very nice girl decides that they will be friends. And it's like when you're 12 and you're like, oh, I don't know if I want to be your friend. But she's like, wait, I've chosen you. Guess what? Even though you're deaf, I'm going to be your friend. And she's like, oh no. And she keeps writing lists of like pro. She doesn't want to be my friend. Like con.

She is mean. And it's so good. And it's just, oh, I would really recommend it for like 9 to 12, especially girls. And there's another one called Roller Girl. I'm sorry, I can't remember who they're by. Which, again, is about like a 12-year-old girl. And, like, her best friend, they've been friends since they were, like, little girls. They go to a Roller Derby, Derby, and she joins them.

And the other friend, like, does ballet, and they kind of have a falling out. So it's just one of those, like, really great nine to 12, what it's like when you're friends. There's big feelings. Big feelings. And the first time a friend is like, I might not like the same things as you. And we can't just like watch telly and laugh because you snorted like Coke. Not going to. Wow.

Okay. That really took a turn. That's why you're so good at Roller Derby because you're on Coke all the time. I was going to say Pepsi. But I was like, that sounds really weird. I think that's, you know what I mean? You don't have like sleepovers and just talk about giggling. We're not children anymore.

You're not children. And both of those books really deal with finding. a new thing and being okay with change in a real like I sat and read both of them in one sitting and I was like oh my god if I would have if that had been available when I was a kid I would have like graphic novels but they just they didn't really exist it it was like tintin or asterix that was it I like tintin and asthawks actually I like both of them but it was very boisey and my daughters read all of the tintins and obviously some of them well not all of them some of them are so offensive and the asterix yeah some of the asteris are so unbelievably sexist like yeah it's

I think that's probably why I'm so sexist now I think because of last week. Yeah, I'd like to have something to blame it on and I'm just going to pick that. Was your role model obliques? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Look at it does all fall into place which you sort of look at those early reading.

So yeah, I just, yeah, shouting out for books that are, yeah, encouraging reading in a way that's not, basically child-led, they call it. It's like, what are they interested in? Because that's the main reason they're going to, like, not watch telly or get off a phone. Yeah.

And then they think they've tricked you into doing something that's really fun for them. Well, yeah, and I read when I, she saw me reading El Defo and she was like, why are you reading it? I said, oh, I just wanted to see, was that, why? I was like, I just, and then I said, oh, I finished it. What did you think? And I said, oh, yeah, I liked it. Yeah, I liked it. But you can see, she was like, oh, okay.

I thought, that's nice, there is there. It's nice. It can be like, I can read your books too. And they were great books. Tor Freeman, Shirley versus the Great Menace or Shirley versus the underworld, boss of the underworld, which is my favourite graphic novel of last year, I wanted to shout out to Tor Freeman.

I haven't done any research into this. Okay. But did I tell you that I got to go backstage at the Natural History Museum. No. So I did a radio show for Sue Perkins and then one of the women there, she walked in, her name's Erica,

and she said, sorry, can't hug anyone, I've got maggots in my pocket, which is the best entrance line I've ever heard anyone have. I don't know about the best, but it's catching. It's really strong. It's strong. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so she's a fly expert.

She works at the... A fly expert. Well, this is a thing. I haven't done enough research into what books exist about flies. And if they all exist, I'll have to do a live show. But the sex lives of flies is the most amazing. She told us about this marine fly that she latches on. She likes to have sex face to face.

Latch on with her mouthpiece into the male's eyes. injects a fluid which liquidizes his organs so she can suck it all out and then that's the food for her eggs. Wow. So this stuff, it was really truly great. And then be moaning about women today. I know.

Dayton pool today. So there was, I mean, the flies are just so exquisite. Anyway, so she took us, first of all we were looking at flies and beetles and oh my God, all these amazing things that have evolved over millennia to do incredible jobs that look like nothing you've ever seen. But then we went, they kept saying, do you want to go and see the pickles? And I thought they meant actual pickles. it's not, it's the pickled animals

I saw a fox in a jar I saw a jar full of echidna's I saw an absolutely massive squid you know those gigantic like really really long ones sometimes we put our books down and we go out and about oh you do you go on about it

so why they've got them backstage why are they not front stage in that history I feel like I've seen them sometimes they can't put everything out so it's just stuff that's not on retention but they've got a whole wall of stuff from the Beagle that's Darwin's

in his handwriting yes and this is backstage this is their staff room essentially can I say I love it when performers talk about things that we like when we call a break in a football game an interval. Yeah. And you just call it backstage rather than like just in offices behind.

I don't know what the real words are. Store rooms, probably. Behind the curtain. Yeah. The world I have not seen. Yes. Yeah. Oh,

we're not doing show business back here. That's what I say. So they've got his own. Nobody clapped when I walked in the room. So some kind of private space. Next time, guys. Next time. So they've got his stuff.

Yeah. I guess of course they have. And they're studying everything. It's amazing. They have them, they've got these moth, moth balls everywhere because there's this.

sort of kind of tiny beetle mite that eats old flies and they have to be worried because it's kept on the building because they use it to eat all the meat of bones when they need in another place when they're sort of stripping things down. So why did she have maggots in her pocket? Because she was showing them to us on the radio show.

What was the radio show? Sue Perkins has a nature show for the nature table. Yes, I have heard that. Yeah, it's really interesting. Oh, that's nice. What were you talking about? I was just listening. I think they sometimes just like to plot comics on things

so that you go, what? Oh, my goodness. through their eyes? Like that. Just the voice of the listener. Yeah. They do really love comedians to do that. They do.

They think that, they know that Radio 4 listeners are really, really clever and they'll feel cleverer if the comedians going, oh, shiver me timbers. I had no idea. That's what I feel like I do on QI.

Just go, what? Yeah, that's that very, very similar vibes. They need someone to be like, that's interesting. Yeah, I went around John Lloyd's house. You went around John Lloyd's house? Another thing I did. You said that was amazing.

Yeah. So he's got this view of the Thames, obviously. don't robin don't go around there I haven't narrowed it down Long River But it's big But it's got

This amazing desk Which is made from Australian wood Which was used to make railways In Africa Wow That's sort of white blonde polished

Incredible And you went around Tiz house for a radio Forward documentary Didn't you? Yeah A different one Yeah

Cut you open And it's long way Playing I think I'm middle class Now Oh you were so middle class Now I think I'm middle class now

Do you remember when you At my mum and you when you live with us and you were eating hummus and I think I came in call me. You were eating hummus and I turned the radio on and you said no and I was like oh and you were like I'm not eating hummus and listening to Radio 4

like I'm not I'm not middle class and I still don't and I still won't I was like oh I probably heard that at latitude and thought okay that's what middle class is I must never do it but it's like now that's a very like common conception of what middle class is but then it really wasn't people never had named it

No, it's lazy, yeah. And also it's just people who know what they like, isn't it? I think that's what it is. I think people who listen to the radio, it doesn't seem to be a class thing. It doesn't seem to be to exclude anyone. It's free. It's free. You can have an app.

BBC sounds feels, you know, there's no adverts on it. God, I guess I do love radio for. But it's for people who are interested in things. Well, yeah, that is. I remember at the time thinking, that's weird because she would like what was on there. Yeah. But I don't listen to anything really. But I guess I listen to podcast now.

Yeah. Maybe I do this. This is pre-podcast. I'm talking pre-podcast where you would just have to listen to what. That's the one thing I say that is sad as someone who's an eternal radio listener. It's the joy of it was that sometimes you would happen upon

a madness and be like, what is this I'm listening to? And then you're just stock still not moving because you're like, oh my God, this is amazing. But with podcasts, you're so you curate yourself. You never discover. But can I just shout out too? I told you about this ready. Jesse Armstrong's Desert Island Discs.

Oh, yeah, you said. Oh my God. If you're a desert iron disc fam. Do they get to take books on desert all the discs? You get given the Bible and complete works of Shakespeare. Can you take Hillary Mantel? But Jesse chose the Norton Anthology of Poetry. And he said if someone's not choosing an anthology of poetry,

they should be like, have like points taken away. He was like, you're in a desert island. You can't keep coming back to a book. His argument was like, but poetry you can come back to endlessly. Okay. I would argue I would come to it never. I would never. I know he was very convincing

but yeah I don't know I thought in my head I actually think I would take pride and prejudice because I think I could keep coming back to that and it would be such joy on 1984 because I would want a book that maybe go Oh you want a sad book? Yeah because I'd be quite sad on the island

And then I'd read 1984 and go it could be worse Could be worse With a rat cage on your face Giving up your one true love Could be worse That's what I would need Every day speaking to your football with a face on Could be worse

Could be worse Wilson Could be wets Could have a rat cage on my face Look it's sunny Oh, I just want to disappear. I'd want to disappear. But then I have noticed that's my reaction to things that are difficult is to just... Distraction. Okay, this is really off topic.

Oh, lovely. I don't think we're on topic. Have it was about 20 minutes. Stay for the books that we haven't read. Or we can't talk about it. I've read 60 books. I can't talk about them. My next question, you tell me this thing first, but then I want to know if that was an enjoyable experience and how you feel about it. Well, we should do a separate episode about that, I feel, do you? Then I won't ask then.

Okay. Now, what are you going to say? I don't know I should go into it. I had to attend recently a parent, I shouldn't say this, I had to attend a parent Zoom course for parents of neurodivergent children. Lovely. So just to be official, I have a neurodivergent diagnosis. My children do not.

But let's just say, maybe we think. You just love Zooms. I just love Zooms. Anyway, I had to recently attend. It was my choice. I thought it would be useful, and it's very interesting to ending it with my neurodivogent husband because this is something I shouldn't say on the podcast.

I would normally just say to you, obviously, but it's just coming out. So it was on Zoom. They said you have to have your camera, right? We want to see everybody. It's all just a bunch of very desperate parents trying to figure out how to help their child. It's full of love. I feel so bad because the woman might know.

My instant reaction, five minutes in, was to like put my head on my table and try and sleep. as if I was at school. I was like, God, that is so bad that my instant reaction is like, I'm checking out, because I have to sit still. You're talking a lot about something.

There's lots of slides. I'm not really understanding quite what this is going. Look, okay. They deal with neurodivergence. They did not approach this in a neurodivergent way. It was amazing. But when we all know that neurodivergence is hereditary,

your first thing would be, how do we help people take this information in? Believe me, we had a long chat about it myself and my husband off when we turned the camera off, muted ourselves. And then his reaction was to be absolutely present for, like, I would say, 99% of the entire hour and a half. Sort of performatively present. He was absolutely perfect student.

Five minutes for a go, he was like, I can't fucking do this anymore. He just stormed off. And I was like, oh, wow, isn't that interesting when you're like forced back into like a school situation where like my reaction was like, I won't leave, but I will not be a useful student because I am bored. And so I am not engaging. I'm having, I had to turn the camera off to like stand up, move around. And his engagement was like, oh, I'm going to be really, really present. But then he just couldn't.

Yeah, because masking is exhausting. He's exhausting. And also a lot of the stuff was being said was like, what? What? So it wasn't just that. And I don't know why I've gone off on this rant, Sarah. Just that like that's, we, I feel like we were accidentally catching up with microphones in front of our faces. How did we get there?

So that's something that happened to me. Well, we're talking about listening on the radio. So, yeah. So if I'm not, that thing, I am a good listener, but my school life made me feel like I was a bad listener. It's like, no, if I'm interested. Yeah. And Radio 4 sometimes has such interesting things in it that you're like, oh, and the BBC Sounds app. Yeah.

It's amazing what you can get on there. And they do have lots of book shows, not that we should be advertising other book shows, but also it is a world where probably people who listen to our podcast do also love other book podcasts. It would be weird if we were the only book podcast they loved, even though I prefer that. I'd prefer that. And look, if you like it, there's a Patreon. I'd like it if you were like, I didn't even know I was into books until Sarah and Carrie. I'd started talking about them. And now, I learned to read.

She went off about her parenting course and, I don't know, I'm not going to listen to any episodes anymore. I'm here for the books. Maybe they're here for the books. Maybe they are. Substack is another new part of my life, which is very literary. If you're not reading Pascoe Substac, you're not doing Substack, right? I've barely started. But that's really, but Substack, the fact that people, so many people on there are fantastic writers.

And that means, some of them are professional. some of them are celebrities, but who cares? I love that a substack has this sort of inverted hierarchy, which is like, already famous, are you? Oh. And you thought you'd come in here, did you? Did you see, what happened to Glennon Doyle? No.

Lennon Doyle wrote, she's American. She wrote that book, oh my God, like that self-help book, like called The Tiger or something about women, like, coming into their own strength. Oh, lovely. She was like a Christian. She wrote a book about when someone has an affair in a marriage and you stay with a marriage because you believe in marriage,

that was very successful. And then she came out as queer, left husband. Oh, yes, yes, yes. I know who you're talking about. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We talked once on the podcast about controversy. Can't remember what episode. Go back and listen to all of them.

But she went substack very much like, oh, I'm really mega famous. I've got these people. I'm really substack. So like if Elizabeth Gilbert was sort of revived. Yeah, because Gilbert's been ever aging. Exactly. So Glenn turned up and they kind of ran her out of town.

People were like, no. You cannot just come up here and think, ask for money for your writing, like a professional writer. She had to leave it. How strange. I don't know if she's come back and apologies because someone else will know,

but she actually did a post of like, I'm leaving because it was so virtual. Because it felt like Lizzo coming had a really mixed response from people. But actually you just think people are writing things that can be whatever length, short or long, well. And there's so much of it is book appreciation. Yeah, there's a lot of book.

Oh, Gronia's really wonderful. Oh, Gronny McGuire's one is so funny. Bronny McGuire is probably my favorite person. Oh, my God. Did you read her recent Wuthering Heights? Well, that's what I was going to say. Oh, my gosh. So you might not have read any.

It's Bronte sisters, isn't it? The Bronte sisters. But you'd read Grunia's really, really funny, scathing thing. I think about the upcoming Emerald. It's giving Topshop corset. Yes. And then you might think, oh, I do want to read it. Or again, I'm not excluded, which is our big thing.

It is for everyone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also, it's pre the adaptation. So it's not like she's saying anything about Emerald. No, it was about the trailer. Yes. And also she writes very strongly of like, she is obsessed with bothering heights.

She was obsessed with the Brontes. And the reason I love her stack so much is she often talks about Jane Austen fans. Obviously, I'm in the Austin camp. And so she had this thing about how Austin fans are like, oh, nice. You've got your lives together and Bronte fans. Like really fucked up. And also Austin fans are like, oh, a new adaptation.

Oh, a reworking of a classic. Oh, a modern version of it. How cute, how nice. Can't wait to see it. And Bronte fans are like, I'm going to kill you. Why have you touched my book? And Emerald just did a interview recently talking about, so Wuthering Heights, the film,

she's put it in quotations. Oh, God. And she said the reason I've done that is this film is not the book. It's the book I remember reading. Oh, are we allowed to do that? Well, obviously it's controversial because people love that book. I think the quotation marks is controversial because that's what we do around things that we're making fun of.

No, she's doing it like it's not. I know. But when we do that, when we're talking, he's a good dad. Wuthering Heights. You were on time. Yeah. And then we went to see Wuthering Heights Well maybe she's getting in there before the haters

I know but I think maybe this is too much It was interesting to hear I speak Obviously neither was seeing the film Because she did say she loves that book so much And also she's a super bright Yeah she's incredible Really you know What would you say

Her productivity Her creativity, her ideas We're lucky to have her But also she's a kind of person Who's very privileged, white, beautiful and really easy to take offense at. Also you go, you know, the Bronte's art, northern working club,

like it's a difficult mix. It's not like Emma Thompson adapting Jetsensens sensibility. There is a kind of like, oh, but Gronia's really very funny about it. Have you seen Emma Thompson's notes on the first script?

It's really great. It's online. Oh, is it? Yeah, and she's done a pass on other films. I think she did a pass on Pride and Prejudice. Emma Thompson's notes on... Wow. Yeah, it's really great.

And I think if you watch the Netflix version, with the subtitles on, it's different to what the actors say, and you can see where she's been updating stuff from the script. They've got the script is from the... The subtitles are from the script, and sometimes they say extra things, and it's so much more naturalistic. Oh, my God.

Tell you what's having a good year. Reading. Well, it's national year of reading. National Year of Reading. That's what's coming in. Reading is having a good year. God, I would love it if just... This is the kickback to AI

and all this technological stuff that we didn't give consent for and doesn't benefit humanity. and takes up a huge amount of carbon and energy that people just get back into like oh, what are you reading? This is what they're trying to do and also the government, it's a government-backed scheme

and it's called... Oh, it's the government doing it now. I thought it's just cool people. It's full go all in or something like that. And I think what's nice is they're trying to say it doesn't matter what you read. If it's a newspaper or a magazine, a book about your favorite footballer,

middlemark, like it doesn't matter. It's trying to be like just the act of reading. I'm going to do an enemy one, which is it does matter. I'm coming around to check. And I'm telling you ever I think is good or not. That, I'm sorry, that book that you read doesn't count. What you've read in? Very nice.

Very nice. But look how well-behaved we're being that we're not actually referencing real books that we would say. Yeah, wouldn't. Anyway, look, welcome back to the series. No, I would, I would, I just would, I would have a line somewhere. Like, absolutely, of course, newspapers, magazines, these are all written by writers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess also, especially with kids.

It's like if you want to write and read a book about your favorite footballer, or you want to read a book about jellyfish. Autobiographies, people sharing their lives, all of these things. Just the active reading is what I'm afraid we're about to lose. Do you think we're about to lose it? I think we're in danger. I think the grid's about to go down. And people have stopped piled libraries like ourselves.

They'll be right. They'll be outside going. When you read the stats, it's terrible. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, yeah, readings is decreasing year on year. Oh, don't tell me this. Young people aren't reading.

Like, they're just not picking up books. And if you speak to. people with like teenagers, 20-year-olds, they're like, they just, they don't read. It's not a hobby. And how do you think people could help that by joining our Patreon? I think if they join the Patreon. They would support us as writers. They would support the show. And it would benefit, I think it would benefit it.

And then we would tell more people that they should read. I think it would benefit reading. Yeah. I do know, it's just do what you like, mate, but us all. Why do they keep making, here's a question, because you know about this stuff. Okay. Why do they keep making films of books then? Where people aren't reading any bloody books?

Oh, this is it. This is the mad. Get your own stories then. Reading goes down. Everyone in the cinema should get a book as they go in and then put the lights up first. And you have to prove you've read a bit of Wuthering Heights before you get the movie. I think you should be allowed into Hamlet unless you fucking read it. And you can talk about the flea bit.

Yeah. Before you go in. The flea bit? Yeah. Do you remember the flea bit? I don't remember flea bit. Oh, what's a flea? When she's talking about how it's spread, the illness and she goes back to the flea.

Oh, oh, obviously in the film they don't do those bits. Yeah, can't do it. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Well, Kirsten, who's our nanny, she went to see Hamlet, against my advice.

Did she like it? She absolutely loved it. I have to say it's amazing. It's amazing. It was sort of out of date now. But to see a film of such a book, a book that you adore so much, which then got obviously critical success,

won all of the awards. Everyone who read it could not be moved and changed. To then see a movie done so well with such incredible performance and director. Jesse Buckley is astounding. I didn't remember how she came second in, Nancy's. That's when I first saw her.

I've been her fan since the Nazis. I've said that to you. You haven't listened. Okay. Oh my God. I'm so sorry I haven't listened. That is my I'm really sorry. Whenever anyone mentions about her, I'm like, excuse me, I thought she should have won I'll do anything. And she turned down been the understudy. You know this. I'm sorry, I'm telling you

things you know. Excuse me, she turned down all musical theatre work and she said, I'm going to Rada. Go to drama school. She went to drama school. I have had this conversation with you. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. What are you saying? I wasn't listening. No, no. It didn't lodge. No, because the thing is, I think a bit like your husband on the Zoom, I do, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, waiting to talk, waiting to talk.

Yes, and sometimes this thing just don't stick. My dad, when he was over, said, you know, she's a classically trained singer, and that's the first I heard of that, and then I saw some stuff on Instagram. There's a good clip on her going around on Instagram with her on RTE program, an Irish program singing a Shinade O'Connor song. Oh, yes, went on Shniko on. So I watched every episode of I'll do anything. I was fascinated by it. And when they lost or got kicked out, they had to. to give their red shoes to Andrew Lloyd Webber.

Yeah. Oh no, that was a Dorif, sorry. They arrived on the moon. The Dorothy one there, to give their red shoes to Angela Weber. Then they went up, they sat on a moon, and it went up to the ceiling. And people waved at them as if they had died. And then at the end, they spoke about them as if they had died. They had gone.

She was so amazing. I'd always miss her. I miss her. She meant so much to me. She tried her best. And then once they'd say goodbye, they'd never be mentioned again. And Ardo Anything was the Nancy show, which our friend was on. We knew Sarah, yeah.

We knew Sarah. She did really well. She did really well. And I watched it obsessively because I love BBC reality shows where everyone's fine and nothing bad happens. And I remember saying and then going, fucking how that girl's amazing. The girl who won was good as well, but she had, she was amazing. And then years later she turned up in something. And I was like, oh, that's that girl from I'll do anything.

Amazing, isn't it? That's what I used to think she was. Honestly, she is an just, an astonishing woman. And everything she says in interviews is so interesting. the fact that she's recently become a mum. Yeah, after doing that film. That film made her become a mother. What?

But the rawness, I think it was before. No, she said it was doing the film, made her realize if there was a calling she needed to become a mother. But becoming a mum and then, because she did one of those Hollywood Reporter round tables the other day. She's amazing. She's amazing. She is amazing.

And I know you haven't seen it yet, but like. I probably won't see it is the thing. Which is a shame because I know. I think you should. I think you should. I do think I should. I actually do think you should. Kirsten the nanny to backtrack to her.

I think I over did that it would be too awful. And she was like, no, it puts you through something. Okay, can I tell you something might be for better? My mum, strong Essex lady, went to see it. She's been going... Barnet Odeon? No, I don't know. It was Barnet.

She came around, I said, oh my God, did she cry? I didn't cry. What? You didn't cry? What? She didn't cry. She said it with my friend Jill saw it. She didn't cry either. I was like, the boomers are not moved by this.

That's what it was like in the early 80s. I was like, you didn't cry. She's like, he looked like Prince George. He looked so much like Prince George. I was like, okay. Do you think it's weird? They cast someone like Prince George. I was like, Mom, what is what is happening?

What? Anyway, I think you should see it because her performance is extraordinary. And yes, there is a bit in the middle that is, I think, is worth it. It's worth it. It's worth sitting through that. Yes, you'll cry. Yes, you're going to snob. And it's done on purpose, in control, by people who,

who are absolutely at the top of their game. And it's done with like, it's just people trying to show you a very pure story of a chart, like what happens in that situation. And not to be just like a detail in someone's biography. This was a lived experience of a living person. It's really is, how do parents go through the worst thing possible? But the ending, the bit they do at the end,

which you've read the book, you know, when she goes to the theatre. That bit, oh my God. Yeah, 100% say you she goes to it. Okay, good, okay. I think I saw you that Eve, The evening after you had seen it. Yeah, I was a bit rocked. You were pale.

You were really pale. It wasn't very well that day. No. But I sort of blamed the film. I thought she's lost all the blood. I was a bit pale. Yeah. It is an extraordinary film and he's brilliant as well.

Okay, so I take it all back then. Why do they make films about books? Because sometimes that happens. And that's why you do it. Sometimes it happens. Or like 1995 P&P, man. I wouldn't be doing ostentatious without that adaptation. Maggie Farrrell, I should say.

Yeah. It's coming up on the series. We should at least throw that in. with all of our appreciation of genius. We're very excited about that. I'm so excited. I know she did. So maybe that again is why it's so brilliant.

Yeah. If you can read the book, you can watch the film. And we'll be able to ask her about this, about having an adaptation on that level. Imagine that episode, guys, look forward to me. No, imagine if she's like, yeah, it's all right. Didn't agree with all the decisions. Right, come on.

We've got to stop. I'm sorry. I've been trying to say we should stop, but I couldn't do it naturally. Goodbye. Goodbye. from Wickslink What's her name? Anne Rice

Ann Winters Anna Wintour Anna Rydenson And Winters And Widen Richardson An Winkgover