Sasquatch Chronicles - SC EP: 303 Trackway Near Sunnyslope, Washington

Episode Date: March 4, 2017

Paul Graves joins us to discuss the trackway that was found near Sunnyslope, WA a few weeks ago. Paul will be sharing what he found during his investigation, and there is more to the story... Paul will also be sharing with us other encounters he has investigated and some of the audio he has captured. Paul writes, "I live in eastern Washington state and have been researching Sasquatch since 1988. On Monday, February 13th, 2017 I answered an early morning knock on my front door. It was Roy Bianchi, an acquaintance I had met a few years back through the construction trade (I own a concrete business). He was excited and said he wanted to show me something. He produced his cell phone and showed me photos of tracks he found on Friday, February 10th behind a new subdivision built on former orchard land. Roy is also a lifelong outdoorsman, and he had never seen tracks like these before. Upon first glance at the photos, I knew I had to go see the trackway. Previously, on Thursday, February 9th, roughly 8 inches of snow had fallen. The next morning, Roy and a coworker had to plow the construction area and discovered the trackway. The tracks were most likely made at night during the snowstorm, because when they were discovered, they were partially filled in with snow. After a third coworker examined the tracks, he suggested they should get hold of me (I am well known in this town as a sasquatch researcher). When I arrived on site there were five people already present, including the home builder, my research colleague Josh Lawrence, and a reporter for the Wenatchee World newspaper. With the exception of the reporter, each and every one of us are hunters and trackers with many years of experience, and we were all equally baffled by these prints. There was nearly 2 feet of snow on the ground, with a thin crust of ice on top that made walking very difficult. I am a trained tracker and spend a lot of time in the winter on snowshoes, and there was no indication of an animal bounding or hopping, nor animal tracks present inside of the prints.

Black thing go from left to right, and I thought, I'm going to die out here and no one's ever going to know. I couldn't believe what my eyeballs was showing me. I'll never forget how evil the eyes were. It was horrible. I mean, I've never seen nothing that evil. It ran towards me at a rate that I can't even explain, turned and stared at me. And this look of, I just want to kill you. I want to say it was human, but it wasn't.

He was yelling out me to grab a gun, grab a gun. I was like, for what? He said, just grab a gun. And there's footprints all the way to the door of my house. It had went inside my garage all the way to the door. 911, what are you reporting? Sure, get somebody out here. What's going on now, sir? That son of a bitch is about six foot, nine, I don't know.

Do you see him now, sir? Yes, I'm looking right at him. You're listening to Sasquatch Chronicles. Check us out online at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. If you've had an encounter, email me. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. Welcome to the show, everyone. Thanks for being here tonight.

Got a great show plan for you this evening. I'm going to be speaking to Paul Graves. And Paul's been researching Sasquatch since 1988. I know he works in construction. and when he's not working, he's actually a very talented musician. I met him back at Beachfoot a couple of years ago. Very cool guy, very humble guy, and I'm really glad to have him on the show tonight. But I invited Paul to the show because Paul had actually found this trackway of where one of these creatures was walking in a small town called Sunny Slope, Washington.

And Sunny Slope, Washington is near Wenatchee. It has a population of around, I don't know, 3,000, 3, 3,500 something. like that. It's a tiny little town, and Paul went out to investigate this trackway of where one of these creatures had walked. And the trackway went on for almost a mile, and then Paul lost the tracks. And about half a mile or a mile away, I'll let Paul give you guys the details. He found the trackway again. Very interesting stuff. I really thought this was an important show to do tonight because it shows the evidence of these creatures. And if you're listening to this on Sasquatch Chronicles.com and put together a little slideshow for you guys. You guys can see the

trackway. Paul actually did a full write-up of these tracks. Very, very interesting stuff. And Paul even brought some audio for us to listen to tonight. Creepy stuff. I know I posted a portion of it to the blog yesterday. And while we're playing some of those sounds, Paul will be talking about where he got those sounds. If you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. And if you get a chance again, check out Sasquatch Chronicles.com. Get a daily blog. There's forms, lots of cool stuff, extra member shows. There's a store in there.

Lots of lots of cool stuff. And again, if you're listening to this on the website, you can actually watch the slideshow of these tracks. And I'll return on Sunday. I got a great show planned for the members. We'll get back to encounters. Again, tonight I really thought this was an important show to do because of the evidence. Let's jump into it tonight. Paul, welcome to the show. Thanks so much for being here.

Well, thank you, Wes. I appreciate it, and it's great to be here for sure. No, I appreciate you being here. And there's a lot of things I want to get to tonight, including some of your sounds and your theories on Sasquatch. Before we get into that, let's start with this trackway you found. Tell us how he came upon this trackway. Yeah, sure. Yeah. So this was quite the trackway. All my years doing this, I've found a number of trackways. This is definitely the best. It was in snow, so, you know, you could get some detail out of it. It was brought to my attention, basically, 13th of February. I was just getting up. It was around 7.30 in the morning. And a gentleman by the name of Roy Bianchi was knocking at my door. And I'd met Roy a couple of years back.

through the building trade, construction trade. I do, I have my own concrete business, and I do concrete work, and he does framing and stuff. And we were talking about Bigfoot a couple years back and whatever, whatever. And everyone in this town kind of knows already that I'm the local Bigfoot guy, I guess, to go to. There's been a couple articles about me or whatever. So they had found these tracks on the Friday, previous of the 13th, after Thursday night snowstorm. We've been getting a lot of. We've had actually one of the hardest winters we've had that I can even remember going back when I was younger.

We used to have some pretty rough winters and it was a lot like that. So it snowed Thursday night about eight inches and when they arrived to work Friday morning, they had to plow out their area. They're building a new home in a small subdivision with 13 homes. It's an orchard that was just taken out last year up in the sunny slope area of the Winachie Valley, which is separated from the main part of town by the Wenatchie River. He pulled out his phone, basically, and he said, I got to show you something and showed me these tracks. And he said, they'd found him, and they were going by right by where they were working.

I was like, I got to go out there and see these. So basically got ready and got a hold of one of my research partners, hiking partners, Josh Lawrence, picked him up. We went out there. And when I first walked up onto him, I just kind of got to chill. I knew I was looking at something different. it was evident right away that it did not look like an animal bounding there was no no other footmarks in the bottom of the track we tried blowing some snow out to look better for compression and size these things were melted out about almost by two feet by a foot wide 20 inches by 10

inches the step length on these things was anywhere from four to six foot two going through this field and this we walked into them first on this field and then I backtracked and found out where they were coming from, which was another orchard that had, it's pruning season up here. So all the cruiser in the orchard pruning also. And there was a snowmobile tracks up and down each row in that particular orchard. So we lost them there, but we tracked them from there, probably about a mile and a half into numerous other orchards and across the road and through this field

and across the ditch road. And at one point on the second day, the first day we were into it. and it was getting dark, so the second day we continued tracking. There was a small embankment with just a little bit of dirt and grass sticking out. Right in line, I got pictures of the snow tracks. It's boom, perfectly in line too. It stepped on this embankment and left a really nice track with toes dug in, giving it that gripping action.

So I do have considerable time casting stuff doing my concrete work, and then, of course, casting other stuff. So I formed it up with some wood and basically cast it with some 20-minute hot mud. that you can get at Lowe's or Home Depot. It's like a concrete patch mud if you don't have hydrocal. I usually use hydrocal, but I was out of hydrocal. So this is a good alternative to use, and it actually set up pretty quick.

So it ended up getting a pretty decent cast out of it, showing the toes and the grip and the whole nine yards. So that was kind of the icing on the cake for this whole thing. This was quite a trackway. It was interesting to look at the trackway because, you know, Sasquots, when they walk, they don't walk like we walk. It's very almost like a straight line. I'm sure you've been in this way, Lauren, I am so you know this.

But for the audience, when they walk, it's kind of a straight line when you watch the steps of a Sasquatch. I've seen ones in mud where it looks very similar to the one you casted. And the pictures you took, it looks very similar to that of just a straight track line. And I know it went on for a mile. Did you guys stop following it? Or did you guys follow it all the way too? We followed it as far as we could. Yeah, so just before that, on that linear thing, you're saying,

now it is true with a lot of Sasquatch reported trackways that they are very lineal, but there are times when it will, depending on what it's doing, you know, they'll be more side by side, for instance, the second location where I got the second tracks. So let's get back to how far we tracked it after it has stepped on this embankment. So at this point, when I was casting that trick, I got confronted by the first private property owner. We were on private property. You know, we were kind of taking our chances as it was tracking it as far as I did. And it's all pretty much orchard land up there and fields.

And then there's new homes going in here and there. You know, they're taking out orchards here, there, or a field here, there. And then up above on the shoulder of the mountain, there's some nice view lots. We're in the last 20 years that there's some more expensive homes up there. There's a lot of ravines and stuff that run through here. So even before I tracked it the second day, I after that first, day I got on Google Earth and I looked and I tried to just you know using my tracking experience and kind of the thinking of knowing what these these Sasquatch do I there's a ravine and I and I it's like

oh he's going to go into this ravine and sure enough it went right into this ravine even the day before just looking at Google Earth I figured where he would go so we followed the tracks from where we cast it and kept going and there's this ravine and we followed up the lip of this ravine and we're following it following it and it gets to this real thick part it takes a immediate left down into the ravine, into this real thick part. And it was hard to follow. We were on snow shoes and there's all this brush sticking up and you're trying to walk through in snow shoes.

And if anyone that's ever been on snow shoes, it's okay if you're just on open snow. But if you start getting into brush, it can get real hairy and difficult. And but I did follow it. And what it did, it made this big circle down there. It went way down in there and then came back around. It doubled back. And it came back up around, up to the lip of the trail. and the last print was on one side and the next one was over in the orchard.

It was about nine to ten feet away. So it took a nine to ten foot step, heel to heel. And then it continued perfectly in line into that orchard where I was confronted by the second owner who had a pruning crew in there. And they had tractor tires going up and down every row and that's where we lost it. And they were going east at this point. So we called the search off. It was like, okay, you know, we followed it as far as we could. It was about a mile and a half of this.

time. So on the first day that I was investigating him, Roy's, Roy Bianchi's son had seen the tracks, and he actually contacted the newspaper. And I didn't know nothing about it. I was there just doing the investigation, and a guy from the newspaper showed up. And so when that, when that, he did write a small article, local article about it in the paper and stuff and shot a little video actually of me casting one of the tracks, trying to cast one of the snow tracks, because they were such good detail at this one point when they crossed the ditch. I mean, these things were just perfect. You could see left, right, toes in the snow, the whole nine yards.

When the article came out three days later, there was, I got a phone call. Well, actually got an email from the guy from Oneatry World and said, hey, these people called me and said they want to talk to you. They said they found some tracks in their backyard. I was like, okay. So I called them up. They were a retired couple and said they had found some tracks about a week before that were really odd going through their backyard and wanted to know if I wanted to come and look at them. And I went up there and this is only less, less and a half a mile, probably only closer to a quarter mile from where I'd lost the tracks in the orchard heading in the same direction.

And I walked out in their backyard on their deck and I looked down and they don't have any fences in their backyard or along the side because they've always had deer come into their backyard every winter. See all the deer down low right now all over this area of sunny slope and down low into town. and there's just hundreds of deer around here. Literally, I looked at these tracks, and instantly it was like, oh, my gosh, these are the same tracks. I mean, they were. And I got down, and I measured them, and the stride, the story it tells that this place is really kind of cool because there's a lot that really happened in the short period that it walked through their backyard. So there's a well-worn deer trail.

You see all the deer tracks going through this one part to the corner of their property. And they just have these two big hedgerows that run down each side of their property. property. So the thing had looked like it had walked down the deer trail to the fresh snow in the backyard. And then you can see the first step. And then the next step, the next heel, is 13 feet away. And right next to it, there's like this other indentation that kind of looks like a triangle or something. And at first I thought, well, it kind of looks like another footprint, but it was much smaller. And now after looking at it, the only thing I can think of was maybe it was the back of a hand or something. I don't know. It's an odd, odd shape. And I filmed all. And I filmed all.

this and photographed all this also. And then, so then it goes from there, 13 feet heel to heel, and then it's straight along the backyard kind of parallel on the deer trail. And they're six foot, five or so from heel to heel perfectly, you know, in line. And there's a, at one point along those tracks, there's a small little set of cat tracks that come out. And this guy doesn't own a cat. And they came from underneath his deck.

And then they just disappear within about two feet of that trackway, the big track. Thought that was weird. You know, I don't know what's going on there, but anyway. So it takes about two or three more steps of those six foot stride, and then I'm walking along, and it's like, no way. It's like, and then the next one is 10 feet. So, you know, here's something walking six foot heel to heel without kicking up any snow, no drag marks, and then the next one is 10 feet, and then the next one's nine foot eight. And the guy is standing there next to me, he looks over, and he goes, well, you know, there's my motion. light right there and right where the motion light was underneath this deck is is where those big

10 foot steps were so after that second nine foot eight step it all of a sudden goes sideways and now it's side stepping and it's feeder side by side and it's taken like four foot side by side steps and there's a small retaining wall that borders his backyard that drops down into the next backyard down the next lot there's no fences there where the four lots come to corner to the corner and this thing was headed east side step and then the last tracks that I find are the two tracks it jumped off that wall. Now it's pointing back north, right, that big hedge bush. And there's two huge tracks next to right side by side with this big drag mark right in the middle, a really odd drag mark, big drag mark.

Like it was, there was something in its hands or something or whatever. And literally, now I'm, I'm a good tracker. In fact, I talked to both the neighbors on both sides came out. talk to them. The tracks disappeared right there. Okay? They literally disappeared right there. They were in none of the other yards around.

They were nowhere. Now, again, this is about a week after we think they were made, and he'd had snow and some freezing rain since then. So the only thing I can think is how it got away was those feet were side by side down there, and it looked like it had jumped up, which it would have had to jump about, at least 10 feet or 15 feet up into those hedge bushes and then make its way back out towards the road along those hedge bushes without leaving any tracks. So that one really has got me.

A little scratch in the head. Oh, you know, just just the steps and what it was doing back in this yard. And like I said, since the guy's owned the home, he's always had deer in his backyard and he enjoys them back there and he just lets them walk back through there and they hang out back there. A lot of people in this valley, you know, there's a lot of deer in people's backyards all winter long. Anyway, it was really compelling. And again, I videotaped and took measurements of all that. And I'm convinced they were the same tracks as found earlier.

But what it did to get away, to be able to walk down, you know, people are like, how can these things walk so close to home as well as you know, West? I mean, there's many, you know, small towns over in western Washington that border the mountains where there's many sightings and reports of them down in town. I mean, Snohomish, Washington, you know, you can see the lights of Everett, you know, shining up right behind you, and yet they walk right down through Snohomish all a lot. I mean, and I know there's many, many other communities where they come in into the, even around the Vancouver area, battleground.

I've heard of, you know, there's areas up around Vancouver that, so. Yeah, there is. and I've gotten some good trackways out of like battleground and those areas. You know, nine to 13 foot, I mean, that's a pretty big stride length. How big were the tracks? Actually, to be correct, it'd be step length. Stride would be two consecutive steps. So a step is just one heel to the next, if you want to be correct.

And that's big. And that's big. It makes me wonder how big that creature was. How big was a track? Well, yeah, after digging into the snow and after getting the dirt track, it's closer to what I think about 15 to 16 inches long by 7 and a half to 8 inches wide behind the toes at the widest part. And, you know, some other people were thought, you know, it's got to be a bigger guy. And I don't know. I think even the younger ones, the juveniles, of course, they're still six and a half, seven feet tall or whatever.

I still think they could do it. But this seems like it was bigger and maybe would be considered a juvenile or whatever. I think it was a young adult at least, if not a bigger one. 15, 16 is still pretty big. I mean, it's not as big as some of them that have been claimed. But that's still a big foot and wide.

Yeah. Really big foot. How far was the, from where you found the original tracks to where you went to this property, what kind of a distance are we talking about? like less than a half a mile literally i mean it comes out of one little neighborhood where there's a few little homes on this hillside and again when i say neighborhood it's it's it's just these small little developments where they put a few homes here and there and there's ravines that that you know

go between them so there's this big ravine just to the east of where i'd lost the tracks and that's where the guy's house was i mean literally i could walk there if if i had a straight thing i could walk there and, you know, 10, 15 minutes probably. It's interesting, too, when you're talking about the, this is where the spotlight comes on, and then immediately you see it sidestepped. As you followed these tracks, did you get a sense of like what it was doing or where it was going? Yes. I mean, it was, this second location told a story.

It was really exciting to see what it was doing. And I truly believe there's something to that light because the gentleman, the older guy, You know, people know, these people are retired. I think he'd even been in the armed services. And, you know, they know when things are different in your backyard. You know what I mean? It's your backyard. You're going to notice something that's different in your backyard.

And they were definitely really perplexed by these tracks. And they didn't really put the Bigfoot thing to it until the story came out in the newspaper. And then it just clicked instantly and is like, oh, okay. And they were really excited by what I had to say and kind of, you know, I was like, but yeah, these tracks really told a story. I mean, it was, it was literally like walked in there and it was either after a deer or possibly that cat. I don't know. It might have just been, I don't know, but it really told a story, the 13 foot, you know, step,

and then the six foot steps, and then two 10 foot steps and side stepping and then jumping off the wall and, you know, the feet side by side. at this point they're not in front of each other. They're side by side, two perfect footprints, side by side with this big drag mark. And then they literally disappear from there. I mean, that was the last of the prints that I found. But he had snowblowed all his front walkway since then, and the road had been plowed.

And I looked all around in the front form in the people's yard next door, and they were nowhere. So the only thing I can think of is he had jumped into this hedgerow, made his way back to the road a week before, and then made his way out of there. Yeah, it's fascinating. And when I saw it, you know, like I said, I was watching a video.

I don't know who took the video, but I came across a video online of when you guys are looking at the tracks. And I remember watching, I think you were running on the side of the tracks, but you were running from track to track. And I think for every four or five, six step you took, you got to the next track. And I was just amazed at the length of the length of. of the step. You know, I have people on the show all the time, then they talk about, let's say Sasquatch Crossing the Road, for example, they'll talk about a two-lane highway, and it'll

take three steps and it's across a highway. Well, for a normal person, it would take them 10 to 12 steps to cross a highway, and for these things, it's that much quicker. Has there been reports in that general area of these creatures? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, actually, when I first got into this, talked to a guy like 15 years ago that had a really good sighting report up there when he was younger, really close to this area. Since that time, I've talked to a number of people that have seen them right. There's a cemetery just below where this guy's house was. It's right in between where the tracks were lost in the orchard in this guy's house. And there's been one scene right there just recently crossing the road right near this cemetery at night. There's a lot of

orchard so they come up out of one orchard down into the next orchard. Actually, on the day that I investigated, these are the day that it came out in the paper, I should say, when kind of everybody got to know. I got a call from, let's just say, a guy in a professional profession, didn't want to give his name, but basically said that last year they'd got a call of two people in a truck up on this mountain, which is right above sunny slope, Birch Mountain, and basically an eight-foot Sasquatch came out of the trees and chased them off the mountain. So, yeah, there's reports.

I mean, when actually, that's one thing. You know, when Atchie's, it's a small little valley, really, when you really look at it. If you look at it under Google Earth, and, I mean, there's nothing, but the Cascades Mountains rise right up behind Wenatchie or right up at the end of my road. You know, it's, it's, they go up to 7,000 feet, and there's four to five million acres between the Wenatchie National Forest and the Okinawagon National Forest. and then you've got all the wilderness areas. There's just a lot of country around here.

And not a lot of people. It's kind of strange, too, when tracks disappear. It's hard to, you know, I've talked to a lot of different investigators. I even had a cop on one time from Georgia. You probably know the famous track from Georgia that was taken by a cop. And when he saw it, he was like, the tracks just stopped, and it made no sense. And what he found out was, as he's looking at the tracks, and they seem to stop. What this thing had actually done is it jumped up on this ravine and the tracks continued.

But if you were following the tracks, you would think just disappeared, you know. And so that's the difference between a man tracker and a Sasquatch tracker. That's people really underestimate what these Sasquatch can do, first of all. These Sasquatch are like super, super supermen, you know. And the strength and the ability to have, they can literally jump 20 feet. And so a lot of trackers, they'll be tracking it. It's like, oh, it disappeared. Well, did you really walk them out?

You know, how big of a circle did you make? I mean, literally, you got to go 20, 30 feet in every direction because they will leap 15 to 20 feet. It's been witnessed, you know, too many times. And now, you know, after seeing these tracks, too, I mean, I'm convinced, you know, that these things can do some pretty amazing things. Going underneath the branches, you know, for one thing, you know, going through. the orchard the way it would bring its steps closer together. It would be strided out at five feet perfectly in line. And then when it got close to these branches in the orchard that were only two and a half feet off the ground, it didn't go around the branches and in between the trees. It stayed

right close to the trees, but its tracks got much closer together. Now, if that was a small animal bounding, it wouldn't be doing that going underneath a branch that it's not going to hit anyway. You see what I'm saying? A rabbit or a smaller animal wouldn't be hitting those branches. And its trackway would be the even all the way through the orchard. So that's another indicator of something strange, is this trackway changing for conditions, you know. Yeah, and a lot of people say that you won't find the Sasquatch putting their tracks in the snow. And I don't really think that's true.

My own personal opinion is I think most of the time when it snows like that, like in sunny slope, I think the population is around 3,000 people might be give or take a couple hundred people. But, you know, when it snows like that, most people, don't go up in the snow and look for tracks. They just aren't out looking for these things, you know. No, I'm on snowshoes. That's one thing. I guess it's my Norwegian descent or whatever. Me and my research partner, Josh, I'm literally on snowshoes almost all winter because I do concrete work, so I have my winters off. And we also have property up on top of a 4,000 foot mountain. We spend a lot of time up there. And so, yeah, I'm around tracks a lot. And I see what moose tracks will, how they will melt out,

or an elk track can melt out into a huge figure eight. You know, deer tracks even could melt out hugely, you know, and they'll melt into different shapes, you know, depending on exposure to the sun, depending on temperatures. You know, there's all these variables with snow. And unless you're out in snow a lot and really understand how tracks work, you don't really get a good idea. And it's the same with people saying, oh, that's, that's a person, that was a person on snow shoes running. And it was, I kind of chuckle on that because, you know, that would be really, really hard to do so perfect. I mean, that track line wasn't out a centimeter if you look down it, you know, and six feet apart, perfectly in line. And so I challenge people. It's like, okay, do it. Make me a video and show me. And I will believe you and I will listen.

You know, I can be learned too. You know, I can be taught too. I'm, I don't know everything. I'm just, I'm still trying to figure a lot of this stuff out too. But, you know, and so I challenge, but, you know, I don't think it's going to happen on something like this. And I've had, oh, I got into it. There was even a guy that said he was a tracker for the U.S. Forest Service or whatever. And he just, he wouldn't stop. And it was like, you know, you need to stop and look at what, really see what you're looking at. And really make a judgment about that. And a lot of people, it's amazing.

They just don't know, you know, especially with tracking and stuff. They'll assume by looking at a picture or something that this can do that or that can do this. And believe me, it wasn't just me. there was five or six other very well-trained trackers and hunters there and they were all had scratching their heads you know so yeah i remember i talked to a guy one time that uh had filmed some tracks it sent some tracks and he sent them all to me sent the video he sent the uh and i'll send it to you paul if you want to see it but uh as him and i were talking he was like you know this wasn't a rabbit bounding uh it had toe impressions he's like i just couldn't make

sense of, and he's not a big foot guy. He's like, I just couldn't make sense of from one foot to the next the length that this thing was making. And the other thing he said, he goes, I think whatever made these tracks was paranoid. And I said, why do you say that? And he said, well, we followed it forever and it doubled back on itself, almost like it was coming back to where it came from. And he's like, I couldn't quite make out what it was doing. It left the area and then doubled back on itself coming back almost to the tracks. And he's like, I just couldn't make sense on what this thing was doing. But it sounds like the tracks you found, it was going from one food source to another.

Yeah, quite possibly. I don't know. It just almost looked like it to me and literally just looked like this thing come down out of the mountains and just decided to come down. It's been a rough winter, whatever. Took a stroll and did what it did. I mean, Sasquatch are going to do what they do, you know, when people see them, I don't think they're really concerned. This seems a lot.

They just seem to, they'll still do what they do because they know they can't be caught or found. That's one thing. And I know that too. You know, you're just not going to catch a Sasquatch or probably find one. It's this thing just doesn't work that way, as you know, West. And, I mean, the history of man, there's never been one brought to the table. So there's something going on there. Reason why, why that is, I don't know.

You know, there's still a lot of these, a lot of things about these guys that just baffle you every day. You think you know stuff. And then the next day you don't know nothing, you know. Yeah, it's true. And I've said that before. I said that to run morehead. I told him, you know, several years ago, I had all this figured out. I had it all solved. And then three months later, I realized I knew nothing. And then six months later, I thought, okay, I got, I think I got it. And then months later, I got, I got nothing. You know, there's always, they seem to throw you for a loop every time where you're like, I'm not really sure what to think about that. I really don't know. And you realize the more you get into this, the more you realize how little you actually know.

Yeah, because for me, it's like, you know, I know that they live up in the mountains and they can come down and this and this, but there should have been more accidents by now in the history of man, you know, where one was hit by a whatever, this or that, you know, and it just seems like, and I know they've like even here when Achi, Bum blew it past, which is just not too far from here, 1992 there was one found supposedly dead up there by a prospector and he called the forest service and they came up and supposedly took pictures and then the next day it's like the whole story went cold it was actually in the one at you world paper too it's it was an article was written up and the whole story kind of went dead and and where it was found was in this camp site called tronson tronson meadows and right after that that campground closed down and to this day it's never opened up. I don't know what that's all about. They blamed it on the trees in there, but who knows. So you hear stories like that, and it's like, okay. I had a guy on the show one time. He was the son of,

his mother was a, what's the term I'm looking for? She would go out. She was basically like a veterinarian, but she did sidework for the state. So let's say a horse got hit. She would go out and put it down, or she would go out and try and care for it. And she just did work like this. And then one, day they had actually hit a gorilla, quote unquote, a gorilla. And it was the snowplow that hit the gorilla. And she went out and she actually hit it with a tranquilizer dart, trying to keep because it was moaning and it was growling and it was on its side. And she asked the guy, well, what is this thing? That's not a gorilla. What is it? And the state trooper showed up. And it's a long story. But the interesting part is they were told to be quiet about it. If she wanted to continue

her contracts with the state, she would shut her mouth about this whole thing. Well, she since passed away. There was pictures taken. And, you know, again, it's, it's another anecdotal story, but it was a very fascinating story to hear from the sun because they came back the next day. And there's more to the story. But the dad forbid them to go hunting in this area where this thing was hit. And as kids, they would go and run around wherever they wanted. No one ever put, you know, and I won't ever stop the kids from doing that. But his dad forbid him to go into this area. But I wanted to ask you, do you think that the government is covering up Sasquatch?

You know, that's a really good question. And so all I got to say about that is if I know what I know and you know and all these other thousands of people know what they know, well, there's got to be someone in the government that knows also, you know, I just can't think that they would, and now whether they can do anything about it, you know, it's kind of like the UFO thing, you know. Does the government know about them? Can they do something about it, you know? So, yeah, that's a good question. Yes, I do believe that they're well aware of it.

It's funny because, you know, certain Forest Service rangers in different districts or different, you know, states, some of them won't talk about it at all. But actually up here in Washington State, most of them are fairly open kind of about it. And even up in my district here, there's certain areas that they will not spend the night in, you know, when they're on their back country duties. And there are certain lakes in certain areas they will not camp in because of these areas are so scary and because they have, you know, your typical probably Sasquatch type stuff happening, you know, sticks, rocks thrown, screams, you know, your trees getting pushed over, all that kind of stuff. So it's probably the best answer I've heard. You're right. You know, as little as I know, you know, someone above me has to know more or what you know, Paul, someone above you has to know more. And I wanted to ask you, and I know we're just speculating here, but why do you think that they're covering it up? What's your own personal feeling on that? Oh, probably like what a lot of people

think, you know, there's just all these, these interests that are out in the woods that people don't realize, you know, there's your, there's your forestry interest, your mining, interests, you know, all these, these different things. And, and then again, it's kind of like the way I guess human mankind is also. And, you know, it's like we have kind of, it seems like the attitude of let's kill it, put it in a jar and examine it later, you know. And, yeah. It's true. You know, and even with, you know, like the alien thing, what if, you know, I've heard that, you know, that we do have technology and that we're already shooting it at, at, at, at, at, at, at.

aliens and it's like, well, did we try to say hello or high first? You know, it's like, that's my only thing, you know, let's, it's the way we kind of go about things. And I think if we go about things maybe different in the future or if we can as a mankind, I think a lot of things would possibly open up more. Yeah, I tend to agree with you. I mean, it's hard to say why exactly they're covering it up. You know, for the longest time, I really thought we were chasing an ape. And now I'm not so Sure. I mean, there's been times where I'm just like, I don't know, man. I don't know what we're chasing. And I'm not so sure it's just a monkey that we're chasing. And it's frustrating too because there's so much evidence that these things are real. It's ridiculous. A lot of people say, well, there's no clear pictures. Well, that's not true. There is clear pictures. But take pictures aside, take video aside. You know, there's audio. There's footprints. There's physical evidence that these things are out there. And it gets frustrating sometimes. I know for guys like you, guys like me, because we're not scientists.

And it would be nice if someone would just look at the, I always say, I hate to say this. And it kind of contradicts what you just said. But I always think it would be nice that someone would just put a bullet in one, drag it in, and show the world. And we can be done with this. As much as terrible as that is for some people to hear, that's what needs to be done. One has to be shot and brought in. I hate to say that. Well, yeah, but see, the problem with that is, is it should have happened by now.

And there should have been a hunter that brought one in or a mistake, a car, you know, a truck hitting one or a landslide or a flood. And yet none of that. And so when I hear people that say that, I just, I kind of just don't think that's going to happen because it should have happened by now. and maybe, maybe not. Maybe, maybe we're advancing so far where we've got so much stuff now that, you know, it's getting to the point where they were ahead of us for a long time, but maybe our technology's catching up and maybe that will be. But still, it just seems like with our technology,

there would have been one brought in by now and there just hasn't been. So that's kind of weird to me. But I understand where you're coming from. But then, see, that to me opens up another whole can of worms. and I'm, I guess I'm, I've always been a dreamer or whatever and also, but, you know, you kill one. Well, that, that one's not going to be good enough. New York University is going to want one. University of England's going to want one.

Japan University is going to want one. Pretty soon, you know, every, every college is going to want one. Pretty soon you're going to have all these, you know, people going out in the woods and they're going to want one. They're going to, you know. And to me, it just. opens up that whole can of worms of humanity where, okay, now it's okay to go kill it and check it out and see what it is. And I just don't think it's going to happen. I don't think it's going to happen in my lifetime. I don't think it's going to happen my children's lifetime. And I'm good with that.

I really am. I think it's exciting that there's something that we can't quite grasp. And to me, that's cool. So anyway, that's just me. Yeah, I hear you. I hear you. And I respect that. And you're right, I mean, that would be a shame. You know, it's kind of one of those things where I always say one and done. But, you know, you're probably right with politics and with education and science. You know, they're going to want a minimum of two or three. And then where does it stop? But the problem with that is good luck shooting one.

You know, because you and I both know, if you see one, I realize your tracks don't really go with this theory. But 90% of the people that I've interviewed, I got a large local database here. In fact, the first guy interviewed had one in his rifle scopes, and 90% or better, they can't shoot them. You know, in your rifle scope looking at this thing because, you know, they start to realize this thing's grimacing. It's looking at. It's making expressions. It'd be kind of like shooting your cousin for no reason. He's just standing there.

Why would you shoot something if he wasn't attacking you? I mean, that's the craziest thing ever, especially when they look so close to us. It'd be like killing your cousin or your dad. It just doesn't make sense to me. but that's just me. Yeah, I guess it depends on how you feel towards your dad or cousin. It's true. But no, I hear you.

But the point I was trying to make is, you know, when you see one, generally they're not alone. Rarely do you ever hear, I mean, I've had hunters on the show to where they've had them in their rifle scope. And I just had a guy on recently. And what bothered him was it was an interesting encounter. He was up in a tree stand and this deer comes running right to his tree stand. Now, I know you're in your. very skilled outdoorsman. You and I both know deer's don't come running into your tree stand. They just don't. And a Sasquatch had stepped out. And he was freaking out when he's looking at it.

He was like, man, this thing looks very human-like. But that wasn't really the thing that bothered him. What bothered him was the one behind his tree stand growling at him. And that's what terrified him is he couldn't see the one behind him. And so rarely are they ever alone. And it's so hard, you know, even if someone were to shoot one, like I say, Godspeed because you're playing with fire trying to kill one, even though, you know, I think that's what needs to be done. I think you're still playing with fire. I think there's a very good chance you could be killed in the process. Oh, yeah, I think so, too, you know, and there have been a number of hunters that have gone

missing under, you know, strange circumstances, and you don't really know that what they were doing. There's an interesting story about that, though, Wes. I kind of like to share real quick with you. It's, it's, so I got this, this happened probably about 10 years ago. And there's a guy here, lives up in the Leavenworth area, and he would always late hunt up this one particular valley. And it's way up on this ridge. And it's basically on kind of just this side of the crest of the Cascades and up the end of the icicle. Basically, he was, he's always camped kind of up there on the side of this ridge and hunted late.

And he was by himself and he was in his tent at night. And well, he always sleeps with his gun right here on his chest. and something in the middle of night basically came in and jumped on top of his tent and held him down. Well, he broke two ribs instantly because his gun was right there. He was holding his gun. And it broke two of his ribs. And this thing was growling and smelled like an outhouse and was pinning him down. It wasn't like scratching at him.

It was like holding him down like a wrestler would. And that's a true story. Yeah, it'd be tough the rest of the night. after that happened, you know, it's like your little gun there. It's like, you know, it's like, okay. Yeah, so anyway. Yeah, that is interesting. I got one for you. I'll tell you that's never been aired before because the guy didn't want to come on the air and tell the story. But there was a guy who was camping and, well, I won't say where he was camping. But this happened about 35 years ago. He was camping. And he used to camp just in a sleeping bag. He never slipped in a tent. He just slipped. And this

guy's hardcore military, and he was telling me this story. And what happened was, is he got picked up in his sleeping bag and thrown. And the interesting part, so he gets thrown, he hits a tree, and he thought for sure he thought it broke his back. I mean, he hit the tree so hard. Well, being that he's military and everything else, he kept his 9mm in his sleeping bag. And he comes out of the sleeping bag, and he said what he saw was just this monkey. And he said he just couldn't grass. And he said, he just couldn't grasp what he was looking at, but this thing was growling at him. So he pulls out his 9mm, and he shoots it, shoots it in the head. The guy broke down in tears as he's telling me this story. And I was trying to get him to get his composure and everything. And I said, well, what, what's,

why are you so upset? And he goes, you know, they cry like we do, don't you? And I said, what? And he goes, yeah, they cry like we do. And he said that this creature put its hand over its head. He didn't think the 9mm penetrated the skull of this thing. but it was cut and it was bleeding. And he said it put its hands down in its head. And he said it reminded him of a person crying. And he got up, left his sleeping bag there, still at his 9 millimeter, his hand took off running. And as he's running down this old logging road, he said rocks were being thrown at him.

He said the brush just exploded around him. And it wasn't just that one. He said there were several of them. But he's running down this logging road trying to get to the main road. He finally got to the main road and hit. hiked out of there. But I just thought that was interesting. You know, and it's one of those situations to where someone's telling you something, they want to remain anonymous, and they don't want to come on the air and talk about it. And this guy's in tears the whole time he's telling me

this story. And I just thought that was fascinating. It made me stop and go, well, what is it that we're chasing? I don't think guerrillas put their hands in their hands and their... Exactly. See, that's exactly it. That's interesting. That's really close to a story I have up this particular valley here told to me by a forest service guy and a prospector was up there sleeping on the ground his sleeping bag and he got picked up one night by this thing and basically drug around and rolled around inside his sleeping bag for two to three hours. This Sasquatch played with him. Jesus.

Drug him around a campsite and yeah and the guy came out and his eyes were as big as dinner plates and vowed never to go back. This is a long time old school prospector. But the crying thing, that's interesting because I had one. cry right outside my tent last year. At least that's what I'm almost positive. It was I was at one of my main areas up at this lake by Mount Rainier that we've all been going to for many, many years.

And I could write a book on that area. I mean, the strange stuff that's happened, including them very vaguely speaking my name and other people's names in this same camp. But it sounded like something at three o'clock in the morning. I woke up and I just went, what? Because I thought someone was talking to me and this thing was outside my tent. It was going, just like that.

It was like super loud. Why do you think it was crying? Well, you know, that's, it's the history. Basically, this is an area I've been going to for over 10 years. It's kind of out of the bag now, this certain area, but it's well known within the Bigfoot community as a real good place to go east of Mount Rainier. And there's these camps up at the above, at the top end of the lake. So Bigfoot behaviors is one thing I've learned about it is so we've got these camps, you know,

that are dispersed camps that, you know, we have in Washington, Oregon. They're kind of carved out and they're people camps. And people go in there and they do their camping. We're very predictable. Usually people even, you know, shooting our guns or doing whatever. We're predictable on what we do. And so I call those people camps. And in these areas, the Sasquatch like to come down and mess with people in these camps.

Okay. and this happens all over the state and in different states. I mean, when you're in a people camp, and there's a certain behavior that the Sasquatch do. So basically, in reality, I tell people that is the best way if you want to get closer or have an encounter with the Sasquatch is to stay in a camp. Don't go out looking for them, in other words,

bring them to you. This is something that I learned many years ago, and I'm 100% positive that this is the way it works. It just does. I mean, it's been proven and proven again, even at this one lake, you know if you go out and do you know poke around or whatever look for them good luck but if you just stay in camp and do they will come around eventually and they do they just do especially at this

one camp they come by every year for the last 10 years they they're around i mean so but then when you go up into the woods and get into their territory the behavior of the saskatch changes they get much more quiet much more cautious usually you won't hear them as much you have to think about it kind of that way. You know, it's like, well, what are we going? What are you trying to do when you go after them compared to like trying to just be yourself or whatever in a certain area? And of course, one of the ways, I'm a long-time musician. So ever since I was like in my teens, I've always carried my guitar with me everywhere I go.

And I've, I always play a lot of music. I played music in this particular camp for the whole 10 years. So, yeah, I don't know. I don't know why this thing was crying out there other than I know I wasn't going to go out there and see what it was. Yeah, I don't blame you. And I tend to agree with you. I mean, I think when people, because who has encounters? It's your campers.

It's your hunters. It's your hikers. Rarely do you see guys who are actually out researching and or investigating or whatever. They rarely ever have encounters. It's always the people who are out hiking or the people are camping. I tend to agree with you. I think if you go out and just do your normal thing, if they're in the area, they will come check you out.

Yeah, yeah, I tell people that all the time. You know, go pick your mushrooms, go pick berries, go just do something. Don't have big foot on your mind all the time. And I don't know. I think it's the way that you come across too. I think certain people, some people, it's kind of like if you're walking down, I mean, And as you know, Wes, you and me both own pit bulls. And a lot of people, you know, they'll just look at a pit bull from across the road and they won't even want to go over there, you know, because they don't understand them or they're scared of them.

Or then another time you might see a dog or a person. And it's like you instantly get that vibe like, no, I don't want to go over there. I'm going to go over there. You know, it's that true vibe thing. And I think that probably Saskatch can pick up that real good with people too. Yeah, I tend to agree. I mean, I've never come across to pit bull I didn't like. But, you know, if I go out and walk mine, people will actually go to the opposite side of the road to avoid me in the pit bull.

There's, you know, even my neighbor if I'm out with, and I always have them on a leash and stuff. But they will avoid me like the plague. And I'm like, this dog thinks he's a chihuahua. You know, I mean, this is the most least threatening dog on the planet. That's the way Flex was. And he was a camelot. I mean, he was a big boy. You know, he had the huge head and just the biggest teddy bear in the world, though.

I wanted to play this audio. There's two pieces of audio I wanted to play for the audience. And this first one is about 17 seconds long. Take a listen. Would you tell us about that piece of audio? Tell us where you got that and what was going on there. Sure. So that's up in one of my closest main research areas,

kind of around the Wenatchie area up by Wenatchie Lake. Great history up in that area. you know you're getting back deeper into the Cascades at this point there's a lot a lot of valleys and just big country up there and it was I was by myself and I think I'd actually played a gig that I played a wedding that night up in the Leavenworth area and after the wedding I just took off up into the mountains and I had my recorder and I went up along this road standing there on this road and these these things just let loose and uh it it's in an area where, you know, pretty sure we know they're there. There's been a lot of reports from this certain area.

And it was so loud live. This recording I got them on was on my cheap little Olympus. I have multiple recorders, but I didn't have the one, the other one with me at this time. And so it was recorded on a cheaper one. But the volume of this thing was just immense coming through the trees. And it was fairly close down below me a little way as it sounded like. So when I put it into a spectrograph, which is basically, a visual tool that you can look at sounds, and it'll show you the hertz range of that particular

sound, and it'll also show you a voice print. And so, like all North American animals have a certain Hertz range and a voice print, and once you get to know those, there's only so many North American animals, you can get pretty close to seeing if there's something in there that shouldn't be there or that's different, something that we don't know. And so these Sasquatch calls that come up, they're really tight in that 650 to 800 hertz range. Even if they're wavering in the sound, the line always comes up pretty straight. And that's exactly what this showed in this particular screen.

It showed that, you know, right where the hertz range should have been compared to other animals, you know, and of course the volume. What you hear in a recording, it's never the same as when you're in person. I've had recordings, especially when I was down in East Texas. and I'll play them and people are like, wow, that's amazing. And I'm like, well, try being there and actually having their recording going. I mean, it's not even compared, it almost doesn't do it justice, the recording that you get.

But what were you thinking at that point? Was it like time to get the hell out of there? Well, it was. And what really scared me at that point was there was, I had my thermal. And so across the road, just right behind me, this deer. and I didn't know it right away, but it started snorting right when that thing screamed. And it was doing that. Have you ever heard them do that?

Yeah, they do that when they're usually in fear or they're trying to get, you know, when they're. Exactly. And that's what this thing was doing. And so it started kind of doing that. At first I wasn't sure what it was, you know, but then I just saw part of this heat signature sticking out. You know, just for a split second, because it all happened at the same time. It happened like right after. and I thought someone was like scraping against a tree at first, you know.

And I saw this part of this huge heat signature moving around. And I thought, oh, my gosh. You know, oh, yeah, I was running. I was literally like my back was right against my Jeep. I mean, I was hugging my Jeep. And yeah, it was, I was ready to go. I was. I don't blame you.

I don't blame you. I would have been to you. And I want to play this other one. This is a third one that you sent sent me. Take a listen. If you would, tell us what was going on here. Yeah. So on this one, a colleague of mine that works up out of Stevens County, Stevens County Bigfoot,

I think he's even got a website that he runs. And he's been doing some good work up there. He goes out remote camping up around the reservation and the outlying areas. And he was at a small lake one night and they were all there. And basically they heard this thing scream from one ridge kind of like behind him. And it was it was a far farther away. And then a few seconds later, this thing. must have been literally like on the outskirts of camp and it just let loose and just gave this tremendous scream. And when I first heard it, it was like, wow, you know, that's a really good close recording. So yeah, they were really close and it had to have been right there on the outskirts of their camp. Yeah, I mean, it sounded like it was right there by the recorder. I mean, you never know

because unless you're there in the moment, but it sounded like it was close, really close. And when you hear that too, the other thing, and I was trying to tell people this, I don't think it sets in if you haven't heard it. But you feel it as much as you hear it. And people think I'm crazy when I say that. But when you're in the moment and you have these things going off vocally, you feel it as much as you hear it. Wouldn't you agree? Yes, totally. You do.

I mean, the volume sometime of this thing, and that's why you just know it's something different because, I mean, just the volume, you know, is just unbelievable. I mean, people have even described them as sound like a 747 jet landing, you know, just that volume of intense, you know. So. Yeah. And even when they're growling or pretty much anything, man, if they're close to you, you'll fill it. And I just really appreciate you coming on, Paul. I mean, I enjoyed the PDF you sent me. And again, I posted it to Sasquatch Chronicles.com.

If you get a chance, check out Paul Graves.org. and I know you do a lot of music. You're very talented. I know you broke out the guitar and when I was at Beachfoot and you're very talented with it. And I really appreciate everything that you do. And you're one of the nice guys in the Bigfoot community. So I really appreciate you coming on and sharing it. I got to have you back to share some encounter stories and other investigations that you've looked into.

Because I know you've done a lot more, you know, as far as tricks and hiding cameras and rocks or self-made. rocks. I know you're a concrete guy. You know, you can make your rocks and just a lot of different things that you've investigated. So I've got to have you back. But I really appreciate you coming on. Well, thank you. Thank you, Wes. I appreciate that a lot. That means a lot. Thank you. It's been fun for sure. I'd love to come back. Yes. Well, I'll definitely have you back. Thanks again, Paul. And thank you guys for listening tonight. Remember if you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. And I'll return back on Sunday with encounters for the members.

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