Sasquatch Chronicles - SC EP:1013 Why Is There A Gorilla In Virginia?

Episode Date: December 10, 2023

John writes "This happened on the opening day of rifle season 1998 in the southwestern mountains of Virginia. Now to give a back drop to the property we used to hunt so you can get an idea. The parcel of land backed up to the New River, less than a mile above it. When I say above, you could walk to the river if not for the 100 foot sheer rock cliffs, caves and caverns that fall off to the riverbank. We had built a tree stand in an oak tree about 75-100 yards down in a holler. This stand was a 2-sided stand with a roof over top. The front side of the tree where we built the ladder was about 20-25 feet off the ground, whereas the backside was probably 60-70 feet above the kill zone. It was strategically placed this way because of the kill zone. The zone I mention is what you would call a super highway for deer. 3 different points coming together in an opening with an unobstructed view and vantage point. The leaves had fallen, so that Sunday afternoon I had taken a rake and swept them off the path to the stand. I always like to get into the stand by 530ish so if by chance I did spook a a buck it could have a chance to settle down. I got to the stand about 20 minutes late cause of forgetting my knife. I had walked this trail many times over the years so no need for a flashlight. Climbed up in full ghillie suit, got settled and waited. 20 minutes or so later, start hearing something walking my way. I could tell that it was on 4 feet, so I was expecting a deer at least. The sun had just started to come up, so I was just waiting on it to come to the bait pile that was set up about 30 yards from me. In the Laurel thicket im seeing movement and notice its too dark to be a deer. Well, I'm sitting there thinking to myself that's got to be a bear, because deer do not make that much noise. When this thing/creature comes into my view the first thing I think is what the hell is a gorilla doing in the mountains of Virginia. It/she (breast In full view) makes its way to the bait pile, looks around to the thicket and here comes a smaller one. When I say smaller, I mean it looked like Cha-ka off the land of the lost episodes on tv only it was black and not copper. The adult stands up on all fours, starts looking around the forest. She grunted towards the small one and it instantly climbed on her back. She is scanning the forest, I don't know if she scented me or just knew something was off. I was sitting completely still, not sure I was even breathing. She glanced up to the stand I was in and with a scowl on her face stared for a few seconds. She dropped back down on all fours, with the little one still on her back and let out what I can only describe as part scream part growl. 2 seconds later I hear a scream to the north from what I assume was another one, but this scream was much more intense, louder and more deeper. She turned and walked off down the trail. I sat there for at least an hour, maybe more without moving, barely breathing. After that time, I slowed lowered my rifle, which was a .270 ruger that I knew would have only pissed her off. Only way I think I could have done damage was a head shot, but the way I was shaking there's no way I could have hit her. Besides I was worried about the other scream/howl to the north. I backed out up the trail turning complete circles to make sure I wasn't being flanked. Once I got to the clearing, which was probably 50 yards wide, I sprinted like never before. Climbed to the fence, got on my knees to make sure I wasn't followed. I ran to my truck, got in and left. The bigger one, I'm guessing the mom was at least 7 feet tall and probably had to weigh at least 600-700 lbs. Those guesstimates could be wrong because at the angle I was at and the shadows. The baby as I said looked just like Cha-Ka from the tv show Land of the Lost. It was on all fours the entire time so I could get a gauge on the size. I'd say even at the same time it was at least 100-150 lbs. When on all fours, they had a gait and body structure that resembled a hyena. The momma creature reminded me of a gorilla in the face. Sunken in eyes, protruding brow and flat nose. The face wasn't hair covered. The body was completely covered in hair that seemed matted with mud. Hard to tell again with the shadows, but could tell it was somewhat long and unkempt. The skin on the face, hands and soles of the feet were a greyish color. I could see the feet when she turned and walked away. I didn't notice any ears, but did notice that when she screamed that it looked like she had canines. I know you like to ask about what witnesses knew about the subject, so I'll tell you. I thought ppl were crazy when talking about it. I laughed at a buddy once when he said he had seen one. I'll never do that ever again. It's been 25 years to the month and I have never spoken a word about this to anyone. I had seen the Patterson/Gimlin film and some things in the book but waved it off as delusional people."  

In 1998, I laughed at people. I had a buddy that told me him and his ex-wife saw one coming up the mountain coming into the town that we live in. And I laughed at him. I laughed in his face. I told him, I said, you're crazy. There's nothing out there like that. I'd been in the woods my whole entire life hunting. I'd seen everything that I thought that I had seen everything.

But apparently I hadn't. This thing walks out on all fours, walking on the knuckles. And when it did, the first thought that come across my mind is what any hell is a gorilla doing loose in the southwest mountains of Virginia. It looked like somebody was bent over and had their head in the window of the deer blind. And it either heard me or smelt me. And he pulled his head out of the tent and stood straight up. that shocked me. They don't make people that big.

The way it moved, almost as if it was gliding across the beach. I've never seen anything moves like that in my life. They were screaming at each other in gibberish. It sounded like a language and they were chuntering away back and forwards, back and forward, battle forward. I know what a bear looks like and there is no way on this planet for what I saw were bears. What are you reporting?

This is about six. This is Ava from Hawaii and you're listening to my favorite podcast, Sasquatch Chronicles. Welcome to the show, everyone. Thanks for being here tonight. Got a great show plan for you. We'll be chatting with John and John comes to us from Virginia. and back in 1998 he was out hunting and he had a run in with one of these creatures

and a little one. I mean, he didn't, at first he didn't know what it was until he started realizing what he was looking at. And what's fascinating about John's encounter is John said, you know, I wasn't as, I was beyond a skeptic. I mean, I thought it was all BS and I'd been out hunting my whole life

and people had shared different encounters and I just thought they were lying until in 1998 when he ran into the creature. If you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. And if you get a chance, check out Sasquatch Chronicles.com, you can become a member and get additional shows.

Let's jump into it tonight. I want to welcome John to the show. John, thanks for coming on. Thank you, Wes, for having me. You know, prior to your incident, I talked about it a little bit there in the intro, but prior to any of this happening to you, what was kind of your feelings and thoughts regarding the whole subject of Sasquatch? In 1998, I laughed at people. I had a buddy that told me him and his ex-wife saw one coming up the mountain coming into the town that we live in. And I laughed at him. I laughed at him. I laughed in his face. I told him, I said, crazy. There's nothing out there like that. And I mean, that's just the way I looked at it.

I thought people, you know, were crazy. I was not just a skeptic. I was completely non-believer in anything like that because I've been in the woods since I was five years old hunting. I mean, you know, small game rabbit squirrels, birds graduated up to being able to go out on my own with a rifle when I was 16 years old and I'd been in the woods my whole entire life hunting. I'd seen everything that I thought that I had seen everything. But apparently I hadn't. Yeah, don't beat yourself up too much, John. I think that a lot of hunters who haven't had an encounter, I understand that mentality, you know, being out there and you're like, gosh, if anyone's going to run into it, it's going to be me. And then you don't hear anything, you don't see anything. So I really understand.

stand your mindset on it. Take me back to 1998 because this is an opening day of rifle season and just kind of walk me into what happened. What did you end up seeing? Okay. Well, like I said, the tree stand that we had built, it was on our property and the property backed up to the new river. I sent you the pictures of the, you know, so you can kind of get a layout of it. And on the picture, you know, you've got that little circle. That was where the clearing was. Now, obviously, it's grown up over the years. Well, the Sunday before, I had went down there. I'd walk this trail 10,000 times. I know I had. But I always like to go down and sweep the leaves, because the leaves had fallen. I'd like to sweep the leaves out of the trail, get into the tree stand so that I don't make as much noise going in, and, you know, maybe not spook a deer. And I always, I always, I always like to get the tree stand around 5.30, quarter of six, and that morning I was running a little bit late because I had to run back and get my knife that I had left. Well, I get into the tree stand and we had this rope and we'd put like a little dog hook on it so we could raise the lower

our rifles without having to climb up down the tree with them. And this was a man-made tree stand. It was probably 20 foot off on the front side, but when you come around to the backside, you could walk around it and sit down and you overlooked like three trails that came together. And we had our bait pile probably about 50 to 60 foot down the hill. And, you know, all the deer would funnel into there, get the bait. And, of course, we'd shoot them and bring them home and skin them out and put them in a freezer. Well, I got up in a tree stand and, you know, that early morning sun is starting to come up. And I'd probably been in the tree stand maybe 20, 30 minutes tops.

And I heard something on top of the hill. And I could tell it was walking all four legs or all four feet. And I thought, that's awful loud to be a deer. So I sat there in about, I don't know, 15 minutes later in a big laurel thicket, I seen some movement. And I was looking, I thought, that's got to be a bear because, you know, it's just way too loud. dark to be a deer. I would say probably 10 minutes later,

this thing walks out on all fours, walking on the knuckles. And when it did, the first thought that come across my mind is what in the hell is a gorilla doing loose in the southwest mountains of Virginia. Well, she takes a couple of steps down toward the bay pile, and she looks back to the laurel thicket, and here comes a smaller one. And when I say smaller, like I told you in the email, it looked like Chaka from Land of the Lost. Only it was black and not copper. And she looked at it and it was going to the bake pile.

And then all of a sudden she kind of grunted and stood up. And when she stood up, I mean, this thing was massive. I mean, I had never seen nothing in my 30 years that would touch the girth and the, and the size of this thing. And when I say it was a she, I knew it was a she because you could see the breast. And she had kind of like a pop belly, like maybe she was pregnant or, you know,

still had the baby fat. I don't know. But she kind of grunted, and when she did, the little one never leaving the four feet, jumped on her back and climbed up and kind of straddled her. Well, she kind of looked around, scanned, And like I said, I was in a full gilly suit.

And she kind of scanned the forest for a minute. Then she looked up at me in the tree stand. And I was, I mean, I was scared to death. To the point, I mean, I was, I know I was shaking. And I was trying my hardest not to breathe. Well, she kind of looked up there at me and she goes back down on all fours. And she lets out this. in the email I said half scream half growl and that's what it was it sounded like when when she

growled it sounded like a like a T-Rex that's what it's reminding me of was a T-Rex and then it kind of got higher and it sounded more like a teradactyl you know whir like and I mean she just let it out and two to three seconds later I heard one on the, I don't know how far away it was, but I heard another one scream back at her, but this one was so much deeper and so much louder and more intense. And she got down on all fours and walked around. She didn't go back up through the laurel thicket. She walked back around the path and she was out of sight. I sat in that tree stand for I know at least an hour, maybe longer. I mean, maybe, I mean, it may have been two hours.

And I was afraid to even breathe. I lowered my gun out of the tree. I, you know, slowly come down at myself looking everywhere. And when I pick my gun up, I put it on my shoulder, and I backed out. And every three or four steps, I was doing a complete circle to make sure I wasn't being flanked or, you know, stalked or anything. Well, I get to the clearing, and the clearing at the time was probably 50 yards at the most, and I sprinted, I guarantee it. If I didn't run that 50 yards in two seconds, I'll kiss your foot.

And I mean, I scaled the fence. The rifle's still on my shoulder. Scaled the fence, and when I got on the other side, I went down on all fours and was looking around to make sure that I wasn't been followed. When I knew I wasn't being followed, I jumped in my truck, and I left, and I went back to the house, and I sat there the rest of the day. It didn't do anything else. Yeah, and I think anyone who's had an encounter, John, can relate to what you're saying. I know after my own encounter, I did the same thing.

I went home, sat and looked at the wall, and I can't tell you how long I sat and looked at the wall. It was hours and hours and hours. And I think a lot of that is just shock. Like, what the hell did I just see? Did I have a stroke and I didn't really see that or what's going on here? There's so many emotions that get tied up into that. I wanted to ask you, so when you first see it, you're thinking it's some sort of gorilla. Yes.

And, I mean, it literally was walking on all fours. Like you see the guerrillas on the YouTube videos. and it had a face of a I don't know how to explain it but it didn't have a protruding nose it had like the flat nose like a boxer's nose

you know like you see these boxers how they keep taking punches and it just splatters their nose and had a protruding brow she had hair that went probably that started

two inches above the brow and went down her back. On the main part of the hair, it was on the back of the neck and the neck. It was a little bit longer than it was anywhere else. But her skin tone, well, both of them skin tone, was a grayish color,

like a charcoal gray, but they didn't shine. They were just, I guess, blanche, is the word, you know, just where you can see it. And when she let out that growl or whatever it was, she threw her head back like a lion. You know, you see lions throw their head back when the growl.

That's how she done it. She threw her head back. And you could see the canines in her upper jaw. You could see canines that come down probably an inch below the other ones. And when she put her head back down, she turned and walked. back down the hill. Now, when I was sitting in a tree stem, you know, I was worried about the other one. I'm thinking, oh, my God, you know, it's a family.

And daddy's coming to save mama and baby. And as she went around the being there, you know, she went out of sight and everything. And I'm not 100% sure, but I heard, you know, sound like a whistle, you know, like it out there. And that was all it was. and I never seen, never heard nothing else. Yeah, John, you talk about how terrified you were. I would have been really terrified being up in a tree stand. I probably would have pissed myself.

You know, a tree stand is a great place to be when you're hunting, but in this situation where you could possibly be the hunted, you know, it's not so great. You know, the most dangerous thing on the planet is a mother, and I don't care what species you're talking about when they're with their young. It's the most dangerous thing you can come across. And being in that tree stand, which is kind of your little protection area, I would have imagined you felt very exposed and not much better than sitting on a shoebox.

Exactly. Exactly. And I mean, like I said, you know, in the email, the mama, I know, I was at an angle, so you can't judge height and weight and stuff like that from an angle above. But I know she had to have been at least seven foot tall. And the baby, I'm guessing the baby was probably about the size of a good 12-year-old, unless you're my son at 12 years old who was 6-1-180. But he was, well, I don't know if it was here or she, the baby.

Just my guessing is he was probably 100 to 150 pounds. And when he climbed up on her back, it was just like boom, boom, and he was on top of her. And she never even got off balance. That's the word. She was on balance the whole entire time. Now, her shoulders, when she stood up, her shoulders was a good. I know, I've never seen shoulders like it. I mean, she was probably three and a half to four foot wide at the shoulders.

And she had breasts, and they were, I mean, they were. kind of droopy. And, you know, I could see them when she was walking on all fours. I could see them hanging. But she also had like a pop belly. Like you see, you know, like after a woman, you know, that's pregnant or it's had a baby or something, how they still have that baby fat. And that's what her stomach looked like.

And her legs at the thighs, I couldn't put my thighs together, both of them together and be as big as one of her thighs. Yeah, the size will get you. And those shoulders, I know what you mean when you're looking at those shoulders and just how big this thing really is. You're looking at this thing on two feet. Was there anything that was, I realize you didn't see a human, but was there anything that was human like when you were looking into the face? No, not one bit. This thing looked exactly, just like you see a gorilla or something on TV.

That's exactly what it looked like to me, was a gorilla. I mean, you know, obviously she had human features like arms and legs and breasts and stuff like that, but nothing about the face reminded me of being a human. I mean, it was just, you know, dark eyes, kind of not really inset, but I'm guessing it's just the way the brow was, you know, bigger and protruding that made her eyes look sunk in. But that, you know, like I said, her, her nose looked like a, you know, you see these boxers, kind of like Mike Tyson's nose, how it's kind of mashed down and spread out from

where he's been beat, you know, on the nose for years. But that's what she looked like. I mean, she did not have any human features other than her body. Yeah, and I could see in the situation that most of your. attention is focused on the big one. But when you looked at the little one, was his features, were they very similar to hers or were they different? His face was similar to hers, but it was more round. Kind of like a baby fat.

You know, how when you have a toddler, young kid that's not matured yet, how their face is kind of rounder. This was what the baby looked like. And neither one of them had a neck. Neither one of them had a neck. I mean, their heads went straight onto their shoulders. Yeah, forgive me for, I feel like I'm firing away questions, but I'm very curious to pick your brain on this whole situation.

And, you know, I'll give you my opinion on I think what happened here. And I'm curious to know what you think as well. But I'm very curious. When you were looking at the female, did her expression ever change that you saw when she was kind of scanning the forest trying to find you? When she first walked up, it looked to me like they were going to the bait pile, you know, to have, because we had corn and a few apples mixed in and stuff, and that's, you know, that's kind of where we baited our deer in. She got about, I don't know, maybe 10 foot from the bait pile and the little ones. comes out and starts the debate pile. That's when she stood up.

And she kind of, I don't want to say grunted, but she kind of made a noise. And that's when the little ones, you know, scampered back up on her back. And as she was scanning the forest, she kind of looked at me and she scowled just a little bit, you know, kind of trying to figure out if it was a, I don't know if she,

I don't know if she sent in me or if she just knew something was out of place. Because like I said, I was in a full gilly suit. So, you know, you look like leaves and limbs and stuff sitting up there. And she just kind of scowled. And that's when she got back down on all fours and let out her scream. Yeah. So your impression is she knew you were there and she vocalized that in your direction. I'm a thinking she did.

I don't know if she knew I was a human. But she knew something was there that wasn't right. Yeah, it's fascinating. I've interviewed a few eyewitnesses over the last, I don't know, 10 or 15 shows. One in particular I can think of where, same thing, he was completely camoed out, and he saw this thing come out of the woodline, and he kind of froze in fear. While this creature is looking around, I don't know if I got a scent of him or what, And he was talking about the expression changing from confusion to now zeroing in on him and now it's pissed.

He said it went from confusion to absolutely rage in the saying's eyes. And he ended up leaving as quickly as possible. And I never, not once did I feel threatened by her, but I was scared out of my wits by her. Does that make sense? Yeah, it makes total sense. I think anyone who has an encounter and tells you they weren't scared is probably lying to you. And I don't care if it's an aggressive encounter or not. There's the initial shock of what in the world and what is this thing going to do?

And if it does decide to do something bad, there's no one that's going to stop it. I get the fear, man, totally. I always think from eyewitness testimony that these things never. run around by themselves. You'll hear a lot of eyewitnesses say, I saw this one, but I heard something over here. And that kind of happened in your encounter where you're hearing this whistle. And I know in the forest, sometimes it's hard to really, when you hear something, how far away is that? But when you heard that whistle, do you think it was close or was it really far away? When it screamed, it sounded like, like I said, you know, the tree stand overlooked.

You had a game path coming up from the bottom. Then you had one coming down from the top and then you had one coming from the middle. It sounded to me like it was over on the other ridge. But I didn't hear no movement. I didn't hear anything after that except that whistle. And that was all I heard. And I want to come back to the bait pile because I kind of have a theory about what actually took place there. I want to ask you, though, and I know that you don't know, and I don't know, but why do you think she didn't attack you or hurt you?

I have no idea. I mean, maybe I wasn't posing a threat to her. You know, maybe she, I guess maybe I wasn't showing any aggression toward her because I have my rifle land. up on the, we had like a little rack built where we could put the rifle up and lay it there until we needed it. The rifle was not in my hand and I was full camoed, you know, with the gilly suit. So maybe she just thought that I was sitting up by watching. I have no idea. You know, it really goes back to how intelligent I think that they are. Because, you know, any other human that was hungry or starving is going to sit down at that bay pile,

someone living out in the woods and that's all they have. They're going to sit down and eat at that bay pile. But, you know, with her, it's almost like something spooked her. And again, I know that you don't know, but what do you think actually spooked her? Because she stopped her young from eating or going near it and really was on high alert. I think if I had my guess, I would say that she sinned me and she knew that something was, you know, that could be threatening toward her and her baby. To me, I guess it was just, I don't know how to say it. I guess she just knew that I was there and she said, you know, it's not worth it because, you know, maybe if he picks it up,

he's going to take my baby out or something, you know? Yeah, it's hard to say. She may have picked up your scent or maybe realized in that moment, this is very wrong. There's something very wrong here being around that bait pile. I sometimes wonder, too, if they get the feeling of being watched, much like we do. And maybe, you know, her spidey senses were going off as they approached that bait pile. One thing that I think is fascinating, John, I'll share with you. Most people who describe the teeth the way you describe them with the big canines,

I'm trying to think of a time where this didn't happen. Most of the time when eyewitnesses described that, they'll say it was very much an animal. There was nothing human about it. A lot of times you'll hear a gorilla, a little bit different than a gorilla, but close. And then there's other encounters where hunters will describe square teeth, almost like chicklets. And what's weird with the square teeth and the lack of the canine, a lot of those eyewitnesses will say it looked very human-like in the face. It didn't look like a gorilla at all. Did you ever go back to this spot where you had this encounter?

I went back one time and I walked down there with my rifle. I didn't get up at a tree stand. I just walked down there and just I got the feeling that I wasn't welcome there. So I turned around and haven't been back since. So you get home after this encounter and you're obviously in shock as anyone would be. And you went from, you know, this is all BS nonsense to, okay, it's really. I'm curious, how did this affect you? Well, I'm going to tell you, Wes, I was an avid hunter until I was 30 years old.

And I have been in the woods one time since then. I just, I'm going down the road at night and I'm looking off to make sure there's nothing. You know what I'm just looking in the brush and the trees and stuff. But it's just, I gave up hunting after that. It just scared me so much because I knew that that 270 that I had, if I had, if I had hit her in a head, yes, it might have done some damage. But there's no way that that 270 would have done any damage unless I hit a vital. And I mean, it was just, she took hunting away from me is the way I look at it. She took hunting away from me.

I can relate a lot to that, John. I know how you feel in, you know, the forest and hunting, it's peaceful time, and that kind of gets stripped away in these moments. Being that you were a former outdoorsman, former hunter, I know you had spent a lot of time in the woods, I want to ask you, you know, for something so big through your hunter's eyes, seeing something so big, why do you think we can't catch up with them? Now, that is something I have no idea. haven't, that was the only one I've ever seen, only one I've, you know, ever came across in 55

years of living. And I don't know. I mean, I don't think, honestly, I don't think they're, like I've heard some of the other guests say that they teleport and stuff. I don't think they do that. I think they can blend with their elements. I think they can, I think they're the master of hiding. seek and I just don't, I don't think they're interdimensional.

I don't think they're, I think they're a flesh and blood animal. I think they, the reason, you know, that you can't find them is because I think, you know, people are looking at the wrong thing. They're looking for the, you know, doing, going about it wrong. You know, I watched every episode of Finding Bigfoot. You're not going to find these creatures like that. you're not going to get out with the Boy Scouts and the Girl Scouts and 12-year-old kids screaming and yelping and hollering like they do. You're just not going to do that because it's going to scare any animal within 10 miles off.

And I think that they're smart enough that they stay out of our vision. And honestly, I think the day that I saw her and the baby, I think it was just a, I'm not going to say stroke of look because I don't feel lucky about it, but I think it was just my chance that I saw her. Yeah, I think it was an obvious mistake on her part, and she probably got too wrapped up in the smell of the bait pile and, you know, an easy meal for her young. But what's fascinating is she came to her senses real quick

and realized something's very wrong here. I wanted to ask you, I mean, this isn't a place where you just go hunting, this is actually your family property, isn't it? My family, yes, it's still in our family. I grew up in the house on the picture that I sent you, that I sent you, I grew up in that house. And, I mean, I can tell you one time years ago, I was probably 12 years old,

and my mom and grandmother both worked third shift, and neither one of them drove, so my grandpa would take them to work every night. and my brother had went on to bed. He was four years younger and I was. I was probably 12, maybe 13. He come running back in there. I was watching TV.

And I'll tell you right now, it was a Monday night because I was watching Monday night football. And he comes running in there, and he says, somebody's looking in the window. And I'm like, there's no way somebody's looking in the window. Man, I said, that thing, it's nine foot off the ground. He said, I know good and well, somebody's looking in that window. And I just told him he's crazy. So, you know, we shared a bedroom. So I told him, I said, well, I'll come on to bed with you.

And, I mean, I didn't see anything that was at the window. I mean, didn't smell anything, didn't notice anything. So we just went on in there and went to bed. And my stepdad, he lives in between where my buddy's sighting was and where mine was. was. And he told, oh, not my stepdad, I'm sorry, my step-uncle, but he told my stepdad that he saw two of them walking through the field down there below his trailer. Of course, my stepdad told him he needed to get off the sauce and, and, you know, he didn't see nothing like that, but he swore to the day he passed away that he saw. He just said he saw two tall, dark, what he thought was gorillas walking on two feet,

walk from the edge of the woods through the field to the other side of the woods. And he said that's all, you know, he couldn't see anything. They were 200 yards away from him. But he said he watched them walk through the edge of the field down our war. And we actually hunted that area quite often. Yeah, and I appreciate you sharing the encounter with your brother and what he told you and your step uncle. I wanted to ask you about their property.

but when you heard this whole thing with your step-uncle, what was kind of the time frame from when you saw the creature? That was probably, because I want to say my buddy's sighting was in 94 or 95, 96, it was 97, it was right there in that thing. But I want to say his was probably in the early 2000s. So it was all right there within like a five-year window. If you walked from the point that he said he saw his, because he showed my stepdad,

my stepdad took me out there and we was talking, he was laughing about it. But if you walked from there up the hillside and down through the valley and come back up the other hillside, you're right there on the land that I was hunting when I saw mine. Yeah, I was curious if it had happened near where you saw the creature. You know, a lot of times I know in this situation, prior to you seeing this thing, you were thinking, oh, this is all nonsense and there's nothing to it.

But now looking back, when you were running around on that property, had you ever heard anything or experienced anything to where you thought, oh, that's weird. and now you kind of look back and go, maybe that's what that was. I would hear, you know, be sitting in a tree standing here like trees fall and stuff like that. You kind of wonder what it was, but I never once did I ever hear scream. I never heard a whoop. I never heard anything until that morning. Now, we've got BlackBair over there. I've seen plenty of blackbar.

I've seen deer. I've seen bobcats. I've seen squirrels, I've seen rabbits. This was not any of those. And I can 100% assure you that what I seen looked exactly like an ape, like a gorilla. Yeah, and I know based on what you saw, you know, you're thinking some weird gorilla or something like that.

But, you know, I'm curious on what you actually think these creatures are. And I ask everyone on the show, what do you think Sasquatch is? And there's no wrong answers, John, because no one knows. But from what you saw, what you experienced, if someone said to you, hey, John, what is Sasquatch? What would you say? Well, West, I honestly think they're a living, breathing, flesh and blood creature. I don't think they, like I said earlier, I don't think they teleport.

I don't think they cloak. I think they are, you know, I think they blend in with their elements. I think they are good at hiding from the plain view. You know, I hear a lot of them, a lot of people say, well, why is there no bones? Honestly, my theory on that is maybe they live underground in caves. You know, maybe that's why we don't never find no bones. I mean, how many bones of a black bear have you ever seen out in the woods? You don't see carcasses out in the woods of black bear

So where are they? I just feel like that these things are I think they're a flesh and blood animal To me, what I saw that day was not, as you said, a friendly forest giant. This thing could have tore me limb from limb If she'd wanted to And there would have been nothing in this world

That I could have done about it, anything. But she chose to turn and walk. off that day. Yeah, I understand the way you fill, and you can kind of understand why there's so much infighting in this genre, because sometimes what people see is an ape, sometimes people are what they experience is. The thing that they see is very human-like, and there's a lot of really weird, bizarre things that go on in encounters, and, you know, if it comes from one person, you can go, well,

that guy's insane. but when you hear that sort of thing over and over and over again from multiple people, it makes me think there's something else going on. But I definitely respect your opinion, John, especially with what you saw and what you experienced. And I agree with you. I think that they are flush and blood. There's many reports of, you know, witnesses reporting, seeing them drinking, eating, pooping. but the weird stuff is, you know, it's hard to know what to do with it.

I wanted to ask you if you had the chance. Would you want to see another one? As long as I was far enough away from them that they wouldn't bother me. If I was across the field and they were on the other ridge and I had plenty of time to go to where I needed to get away from them, yes. But as far as being 50 foot from one of them, no, no. I mean, like I told you in the email, I don't even think I was breathing. I was trying to be as still as I could. And I was just praying to the good Lord above that I didn't sneeze or call for something.

Yeah, it's too close. You know, I understand maybe wanting to see another one. But when you're that close, maybe with a tank or a small militia at your back or something like that. Let me ask you, did you ever call your friend who told you, you about his encounter, him and his ex-wife had seen, and did you eat humble pie? Oh, yeah. Yeah, he let me have it pretty good. He said, I told you. He said, they're around here. And I just, I said, yeah, you're right. And that's all I could say. Yeah, well, I'm glad it shows a lot of character that you would call him and, and let him know, hey, you know, sorry about that.

But don't be too hard on yourself because, you know, I think the normal reaction, is, oh, that's all BS. They're not out there. And I promise you that, well, you know, they're out there. And I've gotten many, many reports from Virginia. I think the last one I took that didn't come on the air was actually from a state trooper that almost hit one. And he was in shock when he called me. You know, with your own encounter, John, like I said in the beginning, you know, a mother, I don't care what species we're talking about. A mother is the most dangerous thing on the planet, especially when her young are nearby. And thank God that she was cool. I mean, I know she vocalized towards you, but thank God she didn't hurt you. And you know this

as well as I do. When they vocalize in your direction, you feel it. Yes. Yes, you do. And, you know, I think the good Lord every day that she didn't decide that she wanted to rip me off of that tree. And, you know, and I only, like I was telling you, the only thing I can think of is maybe that she wanted to protect her young. That's the only thing, because I'm sure she saw the rifle. And, you know, something else is when they had the body structure when they were all fours, they gave me the look of a hyena walking, you know, how hyena's back end is lower than its front end. and that's what they had that's what she looked like walking and when she turned to walk back down the trail after the little it was like it wasn't

how do i put it it wasn't the typical you know like the dog step it was left right left right left right left right and she was gone yeah you know the other thing i was very curious about because you saw her go from all fours to two legs to back down to all fours. And I was wondering, could you describe that movement? Would it be like the way you and I would get down on all fours and get back up on two legs? She just comes straight up. I mean, she just like she pushed herself straight up. And that's when, I'm guessing that's when she either knew I was there. She sent me, knew something was a miss, and she kind of looked at the little one and just made a noise.

It wasn't grunt or anything like that. It was more like a huff, like it right there. And he was up on her back. And then like I said, she went straight back down, not like a human, but straight back down like she was crouched back down on all fours. And that's when she threw her head back and let out the, like I said, half growl, half. scream and then the other one up on the other ridge screamed and she was gone. The whole encounter lasted probably 30, maybe 45 seconds. And John, you know, I kind of wanted to run this past you.

I almost wonder if she had been to that bait pile before or knew it was there or was it really a chance encounter. it makes me wonder from hearing you kind of recount what happened, almost like she knew that bait pile was there and it was going to be quick and easy and fast. But for her to kind of get spooked, I wonder if she truly picked up your scent or if they have something like what we do of being watched. You know, your laser locked on her and freaking out on the inside, I almost wonder sometimes that they pick up on that, like they have a feeling of being watched.

Yeah, they could very well. I mean, she was, I mean, and I'm assuming the little one was heading to the bait pile because he was heading that straight toward it. And then she, like I said, she made that like her out there. And he turned and come right back up on her back. She may not have seen it, but maybe she knew something was, maybe they had been there before and hadn't seen it. because we've been baiting since, you know, early October. And maybe they had been there eating and just happened to look up and notice, hey, there's a big pile of brush shutting up on that tree that wasn't there yesterday.

Yeah, like she knew something was off. Tell me, what was your friend's encounter that he told you when he's with his ex-wife? He said him and his ex-wife were coming from, they had been to West Virginia. It was right around Christmas. They had been to West Virginia on a shopping trip. He said they were coming up the highway, which comes back into town. And they come up across the hill, and he said there was something standing beside a four-strand bar bar by fence. and he said it was at least four foot above the fence.

And he said his ex-wife looked at him and all she said was what the hell is that? And he drove up and pulled off the side of the road and had a spotlight and was and spotlighted. And it walked right down the hill back down. Now where he had his encounter and my encounters only if you go by the highway, it's probably three miles. But if you, you know, as the crow flies, it probably is not. a mile to where my encounter and his encounter was. Yeah, and I know all this kind of happened all around the same time. And when I hear accounts like this, I sometimes wonder, are they passing through a property

or are they there all the time? And you'll hear both answers. Your friend's encounter, when did that actually happen or right around the time when it happened that you can recall? I want to say it was probably 97 of Christmas around in there. Well, I know it was at Christmas because he had been, like I said, had been to West Virginia on a Christmas shopping. And he said it was around midnight when they were coming back.

There was nobody else on the highway. And he said that they, like I said, it was standing next to a fence. And he said it was about four foot above the fence. And he said, I pulled up probably. 20 yards from it and got my spotlight out and just watched it. And he said it would walk. And about every five or six steps, it would stop and turn. He said it never did turn its neck.

It turned its body and looked at him. And then it would walk on back down the hill a little bit and it would stop again and look back at him. Yeah. And I know your family owns that large piece of property right through there. Have you ever thought about going back and just kind of looking around that property to see if you could find any sort of evidence that they're there or that, you know, that they're still there? I would if I had about four or five other people with me that we were, you know, armed to the guilds. I'm not going back down there by myself.

Yeah, I get it, man. It's like I was saying you'd want to see another one, but maybe with a platoon. Yeah, I would do it if it was, if I had four or five people, but how would I explain? hey, we're going down here to look for evidence of something that you people don't even believe in. And like I said, I haven't spoken word of this for 25 years to anybody. Now, my grandpa asked me one time, and this was afterwards, my grandpa and grandma both were passed away, and he asked me one time if I had ever seen anything, and I didn't say anything. And he said, it's okay, you can tell me because I've seen them.

And, I mean, that's all he said. I don't know when he saw him, where he saw him. But like I said, that's the old homestead. I grew up in that house living with my grandparents. Yeah, makes you wonder what your grandfather saw. Why do you think he said that to you? I don't know. I don't know.

It was just out of the blue one day we were out in the backyard. And, well, at the time, I wasn't living there. and I went over there to do something, help him do something, and we just was standing there leaning up against the maple tree, and he just looked at me, and he said, have you ever seen anything in the woods that you couldn't explain? And I didn't say anything, and I, you know, didn't say yes. I didn't say no.

So I don't know where it come from. I don't know what it was. What made him say that? I don't have no idea. Yeah, it makes you wonder. if it was intuition because, you know, you were an outdoorsman. You're out there running around all the time, hunting, fishing, camping, and then one day you just stop. And I almost wonder if he saw that or maybe he realized that. It's hard to say. He very well could have. He was a very, he wasn't a school intelligent man, but he was a very intelligent man when it comes to stuff like that. He was a very intelligent man. And he was a very outdoorsy man, too. I mean, he's the one. it would take me rabbit hunting and squirrel hunting.

And, you know, he taught me how to shoot guns. And he was my grandpa, but he was my daddy, if that makes sense. Yeah, that does make a lot of sense, John. And he sounds like he was a great man as most grandfathers go. You know, I want to ask you a last question. I know you've seen the Patterson Gimlin film with Patty. And from what you saw and kind of looking at, you know, at Patty, what were kind of the similarities, what were kind of some of the differences? I mean,

did Patty kind of look like what you saw? Well, you know, like I said in the email, I had, that's the only time I'd ever even seen what they called the Bigfoot was in the Patterson Gimlin film. And I'd seen it a few times in books and stuff at school. Now, as far as similarities, yes, they had a lot of similarities. She was, the one I saw didn't look, I don't know, she was probably as big as Patty and she had a similar face, but like I said, well, I never saw Patty's teeth. So I don't know if Patty had canines or not, but this one had canines. And she had a, very similar face structure, you know, with the splattered nose, the kind of wide mouth, the protruding brow, and the hair maybe a couple of inches above it coming down

their back. But yes, she kind of looked like she could have been Patty's sister. Yeah, and I appreciate you answering that, John. When she first stepped out, prior to you seeing her, did you notice the forest going quiet? Well, you know, Wes, on the way down, it was not a very, bright night, but the sun, you know, in that early, early morning sun, it's starting to come up and you can see. And like I said, I had walked that trail 10,000 times over my years. And I noticed that morning that it was very quiet, very still, like no wind, no noises whatsoever. Normally when you walk down to there, you could hear a cricket or a bird, you know, but there was no. nothing that morning. And I did notice that was kind of strange. Yeah, it's something a lot of

eyewitnesses report, and I was curious if you had experienced it as well. And I always call it, you know, when the forest takes a deep breath, it's probably time to go. You know, after all these years, John, I know it was back in 1998, this happened to you. And you really haven't shared it with anyone. And I'm honored you would come on and share it here. They're definitely alive and well in Virginia for sure. And I enjoyed chatting with you, John. I can't thank you enough for coming on, brother. I appreciate you having me on, Wes. Thank you. And that's it for tonight, everyone. Remember, if you've had an encounter, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. And if you get a chance to check out Sasquatch Chronicles.com,

you can become a member and get additional shows. Until next time, everyone. Go!