Sasquatch Chronicles - SC EP:1085 Boy Scouts And Sasquatch

Episode Date: August 31, 2024

Tonight we will be speaking to John. Over 41 years ago John had an encounter in Indiana while he was in the Boy Scouts. In 2018 John was driving when he noticed a large Orangutan like creature 40 feet from him. As John and I spoke he had a lot of strange things happen to him and has agreed to discuss events in his life.

In this instance, it's not, there's nothing that's provable from a scientific standpoint in the, in recounting the story. Right. Just think about the nature of what science is. What is science? Science is something that's measurable and can be repeated. Yeah. There's nothing repeatable. Well, I don't know.

Well, I'll tell you, the greatest scientist I knew was John Bernard Egel. And I would bring him weird stuff. And John was an ape guy. And I would bring John weird stuff all the time. Listen to this. Tell me what you think of this. And I would pick his brain. And John was an amazing human being.

I loved him. I mean, we talked all the time. And he would say, keep having him on. Keep having this weird stuff on. You never find answers if you'd look the other way. What is it you're trying to prove if you're unwilling, you know, people who aren't looking into this weird stuff really aren't looking for answers. And he was fascinated by some of the stuff. The lights he was fascinated by their glowing

eyes. He was fascinated by. And John wasn't quick to go, oh, that's nonsense. So that guy, guy's crap. He would say, you know, I don't know. Let me really think about that. And he would think about it. And he would call you up and then we would talk about it. But these bigfoot researchers, going back to the ego thing, I was saying, the day science takes over the subject, these guys think they're going to, scientists are going to welcome them with open arms. That couldn't be farther from the truth. They don't need you. They're not, you're not fit to make them a sandwich.

So who cares what they think? You know what I mean? And that's my point. Like, why not dig for the truth whether, you know, listen, I'm not comfortable talking about the paranormal aspect of Sasquatch. I don't like talking about it. But if it's what happened to someone, you have to talk about it. And if it's the truth, you have to talk about it.

And if you have an agenda and you are sidestepping anything weird that ever happened in someone's encounter, you're not being genuine. It looked like somebody was bent over and had their head in the window of the deer blind. And it either heard me or smelt me. And he pulled his head out of the tent and stood straight up. that shocked me. They don't make people that big. The way it moved, almost as if it was gliding across the beach.

I've never seen anything move like that in my life. They were screaming at each other in gibberish. It sounded like a language, and they were chuntering away back and forwards, back and forwards, back and forth. forward. I know what a bear looks like and there is no way on this planet that what I saw were bears. Why don't what he were putting in? Jesus Christ, you better. Get somebody out here. What's going on now, sir? That's sort of a bitch is about six foot nine, I don't know. Do you see him now, sir? Yes, I'm looking right at he. Uh-uh.

This is Karen from New Zealand and you're listening to Sasquatch Chronicles and I'm thankful that I probably will never have one of these encounters. Welcome to the show, everyone. Thanks for being here tonight. Got a great show planned for you. Before the intro, that clip was from The Shadows podcast. Shane and the judge invited me to come on their 500 show, and I know how hard, how much work it is to actually put out 500 shows. And I was honored that they wanted to have me on.

They're on YouTube and whatever podcast player you're using, check them out if you get a chance. From the Shadows podcast. Tonight we'll be chatting with John. And over 41 years ago, John was in the Boy Scouts and had an encounter in Indiana. And many years later, he actually had a run-in-with-the-creature about 35 years later. And I'll kind of let John go into it. If you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email.

My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. and if you get a chance to check out Sasquatch Chronicles.com, you can become a member and get additional shows. Let's jump into it tonight. I want to welcome John to the show. John, thanks for coming on. How you doing, Wes? I'm doing well, John. Thank you for asking.

And I know over 41 years ago, you had this encounter in Indiana. If you would, just kind of start from the beginning. What were you doing and what happened? I was 12 years old. I was in Boy Scouts. And we were in a Turkey Run State Park for a canoe trip for scouts. And there was several scout troops there. I don't know. I met exactly how many. I said it was 40 years ago. But I do remember that we were in this big field.

And there was a house on the field. And the guy in the house and his family owned that field. And we were staying there. All the scouts were staying there. And they had a pavilion and a couple different places for campfires and stuff. But it was surrounded by really thick woods on both sides. And this was like in late July, early August. So the trees were full bloom. And even in daylight, if you were to step 10 feet into the forest, it was almost pitch black. It was so dark.

So as we were setting up, we were told by our scound masters, hey, look, the guy wants the place said, don't go into the woods. on the side, there's marsh and in like swampy areas and stuff like that, swampy ponds, there's snakes and stuff. Don't go in there. We're like, yeah, okay, well, you know, you tell a bunch of 12-year-olds, they can't go somewhere. The first thing they're going to do is go where you tell them they can't go and nobody's paying attention. So if things start getting dark and things start calming down, a couple of us, like four or five of us, decided we're going to take a little trip and we're going to check out these woods. So,

we kind of break away from the camp nobody's really watching because there's nothing really out there so we go over and we get probably, I guess there's one section and we can hear frogs and stuff. They're like, okay, there's a pond over here or something. So we walk,

we got our flashlights and the sun, I'd say it was probably right around 7 o'clock so the sun was just starting to set but it wasn't all the way down yet. And we started to walk in into the woods and we got our flashlights and we see this pond This is probably 100 foot wide and probably 300 foot long.

Tons of algae on top of it, except for the very center and a bunch of cat tails and stuff. And you really couldn't see more than a couple feet beyond that because the trees were so thick. So as we're standing or watching, like, oh, look at this. It's pretty cool, you know, listen to the frogs. I was obviously what the big deal was. All of a sudden we heard a splash in the water. And we saw a little ripple, you know, like, oh, you know, maybe there's fishing here. made a fish jump.

And then literally, five seconds later, as we're looking at each other laughing, we heard this shabooosh, like something heavy hit the water. And as we came back and looked at the water, it started rippling the whole pond. So we do something heavy just got thrown in. And on the other side of us, directly across from us, probably about 300 feet. We could hear something walking, two feet, breaking tree branches, coming to our left, coming at us to the left side around the pond. And we couldn't see it.

We were looking. It wasn't running. Wasn't making any noise. Just breaking branches and walking. And then we heard it hit the water, like step into the water or fall into the water. And it let out a scream that I've never heard before. It was kind of a, I've heard some of Ron Moorhead's screams. It wasn't like that.

It was more of a like a, like a, kind of like that. And we just, you know, we just like, we all took a step back. And we're like, what was that? And then we heard it start running and start running to the right side now. Start coming around the other way. And it's breaking tree branches. It's coming full board. Boom, boom.

We hear it come. It's running hard. So we drop our flashlight. You know, we just take off. We get the hell out of there. And the rest of the night, we're like, we all make a pack. We're not telling anybody. We went over there.

We didn't see anything. We didn't go over there. You know, we run back to camp. Where you guys been? Oh, we were just over there. No problem. You know, we didn't see nothing. So, like I said, we were 12.

So we were just got into Boy Scouts from Cub Scouts. Wow. There are some guys in the Cub Scout or Boy Scout trip. There was like 15, 16, 17 years old. And we weren't allowed to be in tents for these guys, you know, because they were the age difference. So we had to sleep in the house tent, which held about 10 people with the scout match.

masters, and they were on one side of the tent, and we were on the other side of the tent. So we go to sleep, and at some time during the night, I don't know what time it was. My friend next to me, like elbowed me and woke me up, and I looked at him, and he put his finger over his mouth, like, say, like, shh, don't say nothing. And he pointed to the side of the tent, and he pointed to his ear. And I'm listening. I can hear, or we could hear, something sniffing. and then every few seconds you would hear a

and it was walking in between the tents and you could hear it was it was heavy whatever it was that you could hear it walk like you can hear the impact of it hitting the ground with its foot and we immediately panicked and my dad had given me a knife from when he was in the military which we gave him

when I was scout so I slid back from the side of the tent and pulled that knife out that I was like, I'm not going to let this thing reach her anything grab me. And we woke all our friends up and we all slid back. And as it's walking by the tents, we heard what sounded like dogs coming from the house,

from that house that was there, and this thing took off. A few moments later, we heard the dogs attacking something. They were getting into it. They were growling and you can hear them. And this thing was really didn't make any noise, but you could tell like these dogs were getting into something. And then you heard a dog yelp, like they got hurt.

And then we heard the owners come out screaming and whatnot. And then it was quiet the rest of the night. Scoutmasters went out, checked everything out, came back in, told everybody to go back to sleep. Next morning we woke up. And we were told, we saw the scout masters talking to the owner. he would not look happy he was very livid

and he told us that we that they all had to go they weren't allowed to be on the property anymore we had to go stay somewhere else on the campground or in the state park which they had camp rounds over in the state park which we had to go stay at

so but we found out that the dog that got injured got killed so we left anyway like I said I didn't see it I heard it I didn't know what it was.

Almost 20 years later, I'm in another room in my apartment with my wife and my first son. And I can't remember what I was doing something in another room. I can't remember where I was doing. But she had a TV show, and I couldn't really hear it. I could hear the ambient noise. And all of a sudden, I hear this. And I mean, I was 12 years old again. My hair stood up in the back of my neck.

I spun around. I'm like, what? And I go run into the living room. I'm like, what are you watching? She's like, oh, this guy is talking about some Bigfoot encounter. He had in the Lake of the Ozarks, like, this thing fell into water and screamed. I'm like, holy shit, that's what I heard. That's what I heard when I was 12 years old.

You know, so I was like, I put two to them, like, we heard a Bigfoot. I know 35 years later you did see the creature, but going back to what you guys heard that night, was it like the Ohio Hal? I don't know if I've ever heard of Ohio. Let me see if I have it here for you. I did have a, oh, a sound too. It was more of a, like, you know, it had an ah sound to it. Like, it was pissed off. You know, like, if, like, maybe because it fell into the water or it gave itself away,

it was angry. It was mad that, that happened, you know. It was the, it had like an ah sound to it. And I like the, ooh, it wasn't like that. It was more of a, ah, it was loud, like a scream. It was really, really wild. Like I said, I've never heard it before. my life. And then I heard it on that show. And then that's when I knew what I, what I had heard

was, was that, you know. Do you think the landowner knew that the creatures were there? I mean, it seems kind of reckless having Boy Scouts here at the same time, knowing what's going on on the property. Or do you think it was just more or less like, hey, there's a large predator on the property, a dog got killed. It's probably best if everyone goes. I think now, because I did now that in the older, I did some research, there's been about seven or eight Bigfoot sightings in Turkey Run State Park. And I think these people knew they were there. I think they've probably seen them.

Probably had encounters with them. And they were just telling us not to go there because I think Bigfoot's territorial. him and they're like maybe that's their area and they didn't want us going in there. Maybe with all the scouts there, it would like freak them out and they didn't want us going in. Or maybe they were genuinely cared about what not so I got bit by a snake or phone to them. I don't know, but I don't think so. I don't see living there like that and not and being around that and not hearing it and not seeing it that. You know, I don't believe that because we heard it.

You know, we were only there for a day and we heard it. And these people lived there for years, I guarantee you, they probably heard something or something that was there. I think it was more of the fact that they knew it was there and they didn't want, I'm just assuming, I don't know. But I'm assuming they probably just don't want any more issues with what was going on. Because, you know, if they did prove that they knew and you have a bunch of kids there and somebody ends up getting hurt, you know, you got to have to be hearing that answer for that. I hear you. Well, I know about 35 years later, you had an encounter. It's kind of the second encounter.

Tell me about that if you would. This guy actually saw it. Three o'clock in the morning, 2018. I was living in Rockford, Illinois, and I was working at a pharmaceutical company as an machine operator. And one night, we were running slow, and we were told we couldn't take off early if you wanted to. So I was like, you know, it was like, you know,

I was like sticking around until 7 in the morning. There's no point. So I jumped in my truck and rolled down the windows. I took off. I had the, you know, I didn't have AC in my truck. I had country AC. I had the windows down and had the radio on. And I'm driving it down 20.

As the way I go, as 20 comes off Harrison, it's two lane. But it goes into one lane underneath this railroad pass. So you have one lane in traffic. And what happens is when you get there, a light comes on, you stop. and then one side gets to go and it takes about a minute and a half and it stops and you get to go, your side gets to go and that's how they

do it. And that turn for that underpass is an S turn. It goes right and then left. It's real sharp. You can't go more than 10 miles an hour. So as I'm pulling up the light turns. So I'm like,

oh, okay, light turned, I'm at the weight. So I pull up, which is odd because there's nobody on the road and there's nobody coming my way there's nobody there and these lights go on by sensors so i'm like okay whatever you know is that timer at this point it's on the sensor so i'm waiting and uh i'm there maybe 20 seconds and then i get this uh smell i figure i thought was a skunk but then i realized it was not a skunk because it was it had a skunk but also had a smell of urine and crap and

garbage and it was just nasty it was a b-o was just foul foul smell I'm like oh man that's that's nasty and then my fight fight response kicked in and the hair stuff on the back of my neck and I got real panic for some reason I locked both doors and roll the windows up and turn the radio down like I

I felt something was wrong I was like looking around like maybe somebody's going to try to carjack me or something, you know, because I just didn't feel right. Like I knew something was off. I didn't see anything. Light changes. I dropped the first I go. So as I'm coming down,

start to take my turn, I take that at first right and I'm starting to come left. On the corner of my lights, I see this figure. I can see its shoulder. I see the right arm coming back because it's taking a step.

I see its back, its buttocks, its leg, and the heel coming out of the grass, the grass is up to its knees. I see the back of the heel coming up out of the grass that's taking a step.

And it's moving fairly quickly. I see it for a second, and the thing that really got me is that it was orange. It was like orangutan. It was hair like an orangutan. It was hair like an orangutan, and it was orange like an orangutan.

And, And I was like, what is that? As I'm driving, I'm like looking at the lights. Because as my lights pass, I see it walk by. I'm looking that I don't see it. And then I'm trying to look behind me and then it's gone. I'm like, what did I just see? You know, I'm like, what was that, you know?

So I drive home, which is only about three more minutes away, down on 20. I park. I go upstairs. I grab a drink. I sit down. I'm like, I'm trying to piece together in my head like, Okay, that wasn't a bear, wasn't a deer. We don't have moose here.

We don't have elk here. And I don't think there's eight-foot-tall hobos running around in guilly, orange gorilla, gilly suits. And I don't think we have any wild gorillas running around. So what the hell did I just see driving home? And I knew what it was. You know, and I had to say it out loud to myself. I'm like, okay, you just saw a big foot, dude.

That's what you saw. You know, you can't, you can't deny. it, that's what you saw. So the next day, I call my friend up. He's a really good friend of mine, and I call him up and I go, I saw something last night near your house, and I got to talk to you about it. And so, yeah, come on over. So I come over his house and my, so he goes, what's going on?

He goes, I saw Bigfoot last night. He kind of looked at me for a second. He was like, uh-huh. And I'm like, no, I saw Bigfoot last night. I want you to come with me to where I saw it at. he goes, why the hell would I do that? I said, because I need you to come with me. I got, I got to see something.

He's like, he's like, okay, I'll come with you, you know. So we drive over there, which is not far from his house. And I say, okay, stand here on the road. This is where I was. Stand here on the side of the road. And I walked down to where this thing was. And the grass was a little bit past my belly bones on my waist right around my blood.

I'm 6'1. So I'm looking at my knee. I'm looking at, okay, if he was at his knee, knees. It's at my waist. That's like two feet. So I'm like, this thing had to be eight feet tall. Maybe you'll leave a little taller. Hairy orange, moving very quickly. I said, yeah, this is where it was, man, right here. And he goes, and you said, came up to it. And we were going over and he goes, yeah, I believe I believe you. I believe you. I believe you. And, you know, I could have called a lot of other people. My person really believed me with my sister. My dad's like, well, you know,

say you saw, you saw it. I don't know. I never seen one. You know, we'd say you did okay, you know. But it wasn't a bear. It wasn't a man in a gorilla suit. It wasn't a deer. It was an eight-foot-tall, orange-haired person walking by me. No more than 40 feet.

Yeah, you were pretty close, John. What were some of the features that kind of stood out to you? Yeah, and unfortunately, I didn't get to see the face. I wish I could have. but it was tall, not overly muscular. It was kind of lanky, actually. It was kind of tall and kind of thin. Not like a big body builder. Like I hear some people say they saw,

no, this one was tall and lanky. Even the legs were skinny. Like everything was skinny on it. It was just tall and skinny. The skin was kind of grayish color. It was like a gray color. I don't know if it was because it was dirty. But the skin looked great.

Like the hand, like the hair went down with arm like an orangutan. but you can see its hands, its fingers, which were, you know, they were like, not fisted, but they were curled in like they were walking. And you can see his hands were gray and the back of his heel was gray on his foot. I didn't see any instrument pads on the bottom of the foot. I didn't get to see the bottom. I did see, like, the side of the heel, it was gray and his hand was gray. And the hair was definitely like an ring.

It was long, like an orangutan. Like, you know, the ring of hand has long orange hair under arms. It hangs off. That's what it looked like. And I know that you don't know, John, and I don't know, but what do you think it was doing? Well, I don't, I think what it was, I don't know how many were there, but I don't think it was that I, like, it was, I think I just accidentally, because I, like, I said, I just caught it on the edge of the light. So I think it thought it was far enough away when I wasn't going to see it. But the fact that it was traveling the railroad tracks, was what made me curious.

So I did, once I saw this, I started, I got into it pretty big. I started getting into Bigfoot and I started doing some research and I did see a lot of cases where people said they seen them near Rorotracks. And I started thinking like, well, it makes sense, right? If you're a creature that can see in the dark, because I know they got reflective eyes, that glow when the light hits them, they can see in the dark. A rover tracks would be a great way for Landnav, you know. Rockford is a metropolis. It's a metropolis city. There's a hundred and twenty-eight thousand people live here.

But on the outskirts of Rockford, it's all farmland and woods. I mean, it's farmland for almost 30 miles in any direction. And thick, thick woods almost all the way to Wisconsin. So it surprised me that this creature would use railroad tracks at night at 3 o'clock in the morning when there's no, no, no ways around to walk to go to follow this? No, it doesn't surprise me. Not at all. I just think I just happened to catch it.

Like I said, I only caught it for a split second. I thought, I think it thought it was far enough away from me. I wasn't going to see it. Yeah, recent and even historical encounters, there's a lot of reports of them along road, you know, traveling along railroad tracks. And you would think it would be the easiest way to kind of travel. I mean, you and I were talking the other night, John, I was telling you, if I was ever lost in the forest, I could go find a creek or a river and I'd start walking my way out.

and it's probably going to be a lot easier path, and it's going to take me where I want to go. I would imagine they kind of look at railroad tracks the same way. You know, that first encounter was over 41 years ago when you mainly heard it. This time, you know, it's pretty recent. 2018, you're actually seeing it. I ask everyone on the show, what do you think Sasquatch is? What's your take, John?

You know, what's I thought about that? You know, I did, like I said, I did a lot of research. But, you know, in the last 300,000 years, there's been nine different species of humans, not humans. Yeah, about human, human beings that lived on the earth at one time. Pro Magnetan, all of Neanderthal, you know, all these other kinds, a little pygmy ones out in islands, big tall giants that they found in Iraq. You know, Homo sapiens were the ones that dominated that came out ahead. I think they're nothing, I don't think they're paranormal. I don't think they're paranormal about them.

I think they're, well, they're flesh and blood. I know there was a lady named, what's your name? The hell's your name? She does a, she's got DNA sample. I think her name's Melba. Yeah, Dr. Kacham? Yeah, she's got DNA samples that show that there was like human DNA, like modern human DNA in the bloodline, which makes sense.

Right? Because, I mean, you know, all over the world. world, they've got stories of these creatures. Our own American Indians used to trade with them and fight with them and deal with them. These creatures would come down and steal women for breedstock. Was it really surprising that they would find human, modern human DNA in their bloodline? I don't think it's odd, you know. I think they're nothing more than a species of humans that just evolved a different way than we did. They're at depth at camouflage. They know their, you know, they know their territory.

They know their area when they're in the forest. Look, if you see one, I think you can both agree. If you see one, it's either they wanted you to see them because they were curious or they made a mistake. That's the only way you're going to see them. If they don't want you to see them, you're not going to see them. They can hide that well. And people say, well, how can an orange creature hide in the forest and not be seen? or a big red creature or big black creature.

Well, if you think about it, tigers are orange, right? They're almost invisible in the jungle. Not to us. We don't see the way they see. When you have reflective eye like they have, you know, orange looks green. So if they look green to other animals in a forest, they're not going to see these big creatures and live until they're on them. So I think they're just the way they evolved and the way

they're adapted hiding. They know how to hide. They know how to stay away. They're obviously intelligent. They know what people are. They know what civilization is. They know what guns are. The fact they have a wide range of motions from curiosity to murderous rage shows you that they're not just animals.

They're some type of person, I think, that just evolved differently than we did and somehow survived us. is what they did. They survived homo sapiens. Yeah, it could be. I will agree with you on their behavior. When you listen to eyewitness testimony, you know, for me anyway, there's a lot of times where I'm like, God, that sounds like something I would do. That doesn't really sound like something an animal would do. So it is strange. I will agree with you on their behavior. It does lean more towards a human than I would say animal.

It doesn't mean that they can be animal. or animalistic by any means, because there's a lot of encounters where they are. You know, recently the United States has basically said, oh, we're going to give you disclosure. We're going to give you disclosure about UFOs. And I'm not so sure about that. I think they want to control the narrative as far as what actually comes out. And I'm not so sure that they're ready yet. But what's fascinating is when you talk to a lot of people, most people have seen a UFO,

something unidentified, flying around in the air. and I know the other day when we were talking, you'd kind of brought up the whole UFO thing and a few things that happened to you. If you would, kind of share it with us. Yeah, the first one was, actually my sister and I both saw it. Well, we weren't living together. She lived in Rock for the same time I did. It was around two in the morning.

I got up to go to the bathroom. This was like around 2003, 2004. And it was, I was going to the bathroom. room. I had the lights. I was dark. I had the lights off. And awesome this bright orange light like lit up the whole whole backyard and we came through the window. And I like looked up the window and I saw this orange ball of light just streaking over over the city, over our, over our house over the city, you know, and I was like, what the hell was that? Was that a meteorite? I don't know what it was. It didn't look like a meteorite. It wasn't going that fast, but it was looked

like a meteorite. And then my sister called me, because my sister and I used to get together in the morning and go walks, and then we go to a bagel place and grab a bagel and coffee, and then continue our walk for her exercise and go home. And she came over. She goes, you won't believe what I saw last night. I looked at and I go, let me guess. She's an orange UFO, you know, jokingly. And she goes, yeah. I'm like, no, no, no, no. I was kidding. I said, I saw that too. So we immediately went for a walk and we stopped by to get her bagel. And there was newspaper there. We got it. And sure is up, there was at least seven other people that saw the same thing we saw that called and reported. So we're like, okay, so we did see that, you know.

That was pretty wild. I was like, okay, that was the first time I saw something like that. The second time was completely different. I was living in Arizona. It was 2011. I was on my way to work, and I worked night maintenance at a restaurant there where I did like some cleaning and some basic maintenance and got food. preparation in the morning before I went home. And I was getting ready to go to work and I was dragging the garbage cans out to the side of the road.

My head was down as I was walking out. I was dragging these garbage cans. And they were heavy and they locked because they have halvelyna there will knock the garbage cans over and just go make a mess. So I'm pulling these garbage cans down and I just casually looked up and there was probably 50 feet off the ground. hovering right there was this black triangle, probably the size of maybe a trampoline,

maybe a little bit bigger, but it had like a shape like a triangle. And it had three red lights in the front of it. Remember that show back in the 80s, that show, a Knight Rider that kicked the car, it had that red light in the front that go back and forth, that palsates back and forth? It was kind of like that.

just a little bigger and more square. And it was like going back and forth, three lights. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. It was just hovering there. I couldn't move. I was like paralyzed. I couldn't move. I couldn't move.

I couldn't speak. I just sat there was looking at this thing. And if you can pictures in your head, it kind of like, you know, you throw a frisbee and a frisbee kind of glides to the right and goes to the left. That's what it did. It kind of like glided out to the left. It like this little semicircle. and then the front end tilted up

and the light started like going like really sporadically like started like flashing. They weren't just going back and forth. They were just coming up differently. And all of a sudden it just took off. You could literally hear the whoosh. It was like, it was gone. Like just took off.

It went straight out and then I was like, wow. You know, wow. I can't believe I just saw that. And I ran aside and told my son he came out and he's like, are you sure? sure. So for the next two weeks, I went and bought a telescope and I had binoculars, I really big binoculars, these kick-ass binoculars. And I'm looking in the skies. Because one nice thing about Arizona when you're in open desert is you don't have ambient city light.

It's nothing but night sky. And you can see really well in the sky at night. And I'm looking and I'm looking. And for two weeks, I'm staring. I'm out there every night just trying to see whatever I can see out there. there, you know. One weekend, my son's like, hey, Dad, come here. And he's looking through the telescope. And he's looking at Orion, the constellation Orion. He goes, look at that, you know, that's the belt. You see that last star right there? He goes, watch that. And every five minutes, every now and then you'd see this little ball of light come out from the starlight, and they would move back into the starlight. You couldn't see it no more. Now, and it did it like three or four

times, you go, what is that? I said, I don't know. But it looks like it's trying to hide in the starlight. So you can't see it. And that's what I start putting two and two together. It's like, oh yeah, you aren't spinning at 22,000 miles an hour. This thing's probably hovering. As we're turning, you know, it's going to be able to be seen because it's a, you know, not that it's moving, we're moving. So it's got to move to maintain where it looks like where it's at. And I was like, Yeah, I think we just saw, I can't identify it. I don't know what it is. And I said, you want to call?

He goes, I'm going to say it's a UFO. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. It's on a plane. I don't know what that is. Something in space, hiding in starlight. I can't tell you what that is.

I don't know. But that black triangle that I saw clear as day and I heard it. It didn't make any noise when it took off it did. You can hear the wishing sound as it took off. It was wild, really, really wild. Yeah, sounds like it. You know, I've seen two UFO. or I guess what you would call unidentified something flying around up there.

One of them I was pretty sure was our military. It was just a weird craft I hadn't seen before. But, you know, and the other one I saw definitely wasn't from here. And I wonder about disclosure. You know, has it not come out yet because of what's actually flying the craft? What do you think aliens are? Well, I'm a big fan of Bob Lazar. and I watched him on a podcast with Joe Rogan one time.

He explained like, you know, it has to do with like anti-gravity. Like, you have to be an anti-gravity for to survive something like that. I'm not going to speak for Bob Lazar, but I do like what he says. I think, well, okay, let's break it down. The government's already lied to us that said that aliens that exist. We know they exist. They said that there's no such thing as UFO phenomenon. We know that's cool.

So, you know, I've seen it. You've seen it. Other people have seen it. My dad lived in Arizona. He was in Arizona. He lived at the time, but he was there visiting maybe planning up buying his house in Arizona. He was in Phoenix when that big triangle of Phoenix was there.

He saw that big mile-long ship. He saw that. He said, you know, you can't deny it. What you saw. You've seen it? I can't deny it. So are they real? I think so.

I mean, I'm a spiritual person, but I'm not naive to think that we're the only life in the universe, I think that's pretty arrogant. I think they've, I think they've visited us many times. I think they've visited us before. I think they've given us some technology. There's things they can't, like, for example, look at Montu-Pichu, right? They have, you know, eight-ton rocks on this tiny little cliff that fit together so perfectly that you can't put a human hair through, and you want me to believe that men with bronze and stone, not even bronze, bone and stone and wood carve that when you can't do that now with a modern laser? No, no.

And how to hell they even get it up there? It's a ton of rock. How'd you get it up there? So, yeah, I definitely believe there are alien beings. There's a guy, another guy, I like, to reference when I talk about aliens is Dr. Stephen Greer. You know, if you're, if your space traveling like that, there's only so many reasons why you would do it. It would either to make contact with somebody or you're going for resources or you're going to try to conquer, right? That's the only reason why you would do that. Otherwise, what's the point? Yeah, purpose and intent makes you wonder.

And, you know, more and more people are seeing UFOs and there's a lot of encounters where of abductions and that sort of thing. And, you know, it makes you wonder, too, if something is so intelligent, why would the, why would the government need to disclose these things? Couldn't they just kind of disclose themselves if they're so intelligent and they're coming here for a purpose? Like, it makes you wonder, I mean, it feels like the government and whatever these things are flying around in our atmosphere or working together. It's strange. Anyway, I know, I'll be here. having your sister on a future show. I'm working on it at the moment. But growing up, John, you were telling me about these weird experiences in this home. And you were saying, you know,

the bulk of it really happened to my sister. It really didn't happen to me. But you'd seen a lot of weird things in this home kind of growing up. Tell me about this. My stepfather had gotten a job at Green Giant. And we moved into this house that was right next to a hospital, St. Joseph's Hospital in building here in Illinois. And we moved in, and within the first month or two of us living there, strange things. Like, we would hear pots and pans move, like, two, three o'clock in the morning. I was like, where's mom doing? Getting up doing the meal, why she washing dishes at three in the morning? And then, you know, you would put down, like I think I told you before, like, you would put down a cup on one table, you turn to get the

remote control, you go back, and your cups on another table. You go back, and your cups on another table. You're like, wait a minute, I didn't move that. Let me go get it and put it back. You know, it's just little things like that, you know. Nothing like, oh, my God, I need to, you know, call the Ghostbusters and get out of here. I'm just like, it was odd, it was odd, you know. And then one night after playing, I was sophomore in high school, we were playing, I was getting done with a football game. We were coming home, and I was just getting ready to start driver's ed.

So my stepdad, trying to be the cool stepdad. dad's like, hey, you want to park the van in the driveway in the garage? I'm like, yeah, yeah, I do. You know, you get a chance to drive? I was like, you know, 13, 4. I'm like, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Hopped up in there. You know, my mom was like, okay, take it easy.

So my dad's like, my stepdad's like, hey, I'm going to grab the mail, and go through the front door. Now, I give you a picture of this house so you can understand it. The house had three, it was a, what is it's called like a tri-level house. So you had a full basement with a kitchen. net, living room, laundry room, shower, everything. I had a whole thing down there plus two bedrooms. And it came up a flight of stairs.

There's a landing. You came into the front door. Another flight of stairs going up, which went into a living room, dining room, kitchen, and then back into three bedrooms. So my stepdad was going through the front door. I drove around to the back and parked it and I had my own keys and my sister had my own keys. My mom wanted to go through the upstairs by the kitchen. So she went up the wooden stairs up the kitchen.

I was going downstairs. That's where my room was. My sister was behind me, and I had the keys downstairs. So if you can pictures in your head, I open up the back door downstairs coming in. He's coming through the front door coming, and he turns the light on the landing. I don't turn the light on. So as I walk in, I have the light in my eyes. And in between me and him, I see a silhouette of somebody standing there.

And they literally crouch like, oh, I just got caught. And they crouch. And I take a step back and I'm like, whoa, there's somebody in the house. And I yelled it out like, oh, there's somebody in the house. And he looked, my stepdad looked at me and he saw it too. And he comes running down the stairs after it. And this thing took off and ran to the right. And so I'm like, okay, we have a little hallway that I can run down.

So I'm running down the hallway. And me and my stepdad are looking at each other. We're going from room to room. Right. So I'm running down the hallway. He's running the other way. And we get past the bathroom, looking at each other, to get past the laundry room looking at each other,

get to the kitchen, and we're looking at each other, there's nobody there, just me and him. And he's like, he's kind of looking at me. I'm like, you did see that, right? He goes, yeah, yeah, I saw him. And I go, what did you see? He goes, well, it looked gray. He looked like a gray swirling mist

because he had the light looking at it. I had darkness, so I had silhouette. I said, to me, it looked like a human being. It just looked like a plain human being standing there. Well, I could see the nose. and the hands and everything. Like, it's just, I could see a human being standing there, and it ran. So at that point, that's what I saw.

So all the things that happened, anyway, I didn't stay there very long. We weren't there very long after that. The next big thing that happened was literally three days later, my mom took us to go grocery shopping, my sister, and we came back, and we had groceries in our hands and stuff. and my sister had a free hand and she went to get the front door and in front of us, the front door not turned and opened, the door opened on its own before my sister could grab the door.

My mom's like, nope, she grabbed us both, yanked his back, said, nope, we're leaving. And we left. And when she called my stepdad and said, we're staying at a hotel, this is what's going on, called the realtor, we're not going back to the house. And then my mom sat down with me and my sister and said, look, I didn't have my stepdad. to tell you guys this. She goes, but about a month ago when I was in the kitchen, I felt somebody tapped me on the shoulder and I turned around there was nobody there.

I didn't want to scare you guys. And then my sister's like, well, let me tell you what happened to me. And then I'm like, well, you know, you did, you know, me and my step, I did see that thing in the hallway, you know, or in between us. So we, you know, my sister had way more stuff happened with her than I did. And, yeah, that's when we're like, yeah, that place is haunted. So we look back at it. Because back then, the law said you didn't have to tell anybody when you run into a house or bought a house that was haunted.

There's laws now that says you have to do that. You have to disclose if the house is haunted or been haunted or there's been evidence of that's happening or even reports of that's happening. And it was a nine-bedroom house, get this, nine-bedroom house for $900 or a five-bedroom house for $900 a month. Should have been a tell-tale sign something was wrong, right? You're not going to run a five-bedroom house. bedroom house for $900 a month. We'll come to find out to the realtor that she couldn't keep anybody there. In the last five years, she's had seven or eight tenants and they'll stay no more than two or three months at a time.

And then they leave. Well, now we know why. Yeah, I would have left too. And, you know, like when we were talking the other day, I can't wait to get your sister on because there was a lot of weird stuff that went on with her. I always wonder about homes like this. I mean, did somebody die in it? well yeah somebody did die in the house uh i talked well years later i'm talking years later i went back to the house the house that since now has been re-bought and cleaned actually when i say clean they brought

a priest and they cleaned the house the blessed the house and i talked to the next door neighbors actually and when i saw them i saw them outside mom the yard i was standing in the in the front yard looking at the house and uh they kind of looked like can we help you with something i'm like you might not remember me and I explained who I was. I said, we lived here for a couple of years back in 1980, 86 and, you know, or 87. They're like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember you. You're that little kid. Was that your mom in the yard? Yeah, that was me. They're like, yeah. Like, yeah, you know, you weren't the guys, the only ones that left. They had at least five more couples coming after you guys. And they're like, yeah, it's a strange house. And I'm like, why, did you see

something? He goes, oh, yeah, there were times where nobody was in the house and the lights would come on, you'd see shadow walking around the house, but there's nobody there. There's nobody living there. And next to our neighbors are seeing this. They're like, yeah, we've seen it. And I'm like, well, somebody dying in the house. They're like, yeah, the house belonged to, I guess, a doctor. And he had passed away in the house years earlier. I mean, I don't know exactly what I guess it was years earlier. And I think what it was this guy just didn't pass over. I think he just wanted people to know he was there. You know, he wasn't benevolently. I don't he tried to hurt anybody, but he definitely wanted your attention like, hey, I'm here.

You know, this is my house and I'm here. It didn't try to hurt anybody, but definitely was there until, you know, they had a priest come in and then he wasn't there. And other people wanted to say there's no problem and everything's fine. But there was a problem there for a while. Yeah, it was wild. Or it could have been, if it wasn't that doctor, it could have been, you know, it's right next to a hospital.

Anybody tied in that hospital could just, you know, spirit could just wander down there and said, I'm going to hang out here for a while. You know, and this is where I'm staying. I think ghosts terrify me the most because you can't see them, but yet sometimes they are seen. They're not physical, but yet they are physical. I mean, it's opening the door. It's tapping your mom on the shoulder, you know, weird stuff, moving remotes.

And it's odd to me because you would think something like that couldn't be physical, but yet it is. Well, I think what's that old, in physics, they say energy, emotion stays in motion, right? It doesn't, energy doesn't dissipate, just transfers. And I think if they get emotionally charged enough, well, they can manifest themselves, they can actually speak, they can cross over into our world, from their world, right? Because let's be honest, human bodies, that's what a soul is, it's energy, that's what a soul is. So when you need your human shell to live here, but what happens when you die? Okay, you shed your human shell, but your energy has to go somewhere.

It doesn't die. It just transfers. And I think what happens is people either don't know they die or maybe they get lost on the way or they don't want to go where they're going or they don't want to accept up they're dead or they don't know they're dead and they stay. I think over a period of time of, I mean, if you could picture this in your way, your mind, say you died in 1800, and over 200 years people come in and out of your house and they don't talk to you, they don't see you, they don't speak to you, they don't even recognize your presence. I can imagine how angry that would make you or how emotionally that would make you, like I'm right here, why can't you see me, you know, and then eventually they

start getting angry and that anger turns into power or energy. which now can manifest into our world. So they show themselves or they move stuff where they touch people or anything something like that. You know, I think that's what happens. I don't know. I'm not an expert in that stuff. I don't know.

You know, a lot of people thought ghost stuff was bull crap until, you know, three assholes from Las Vegas made a little documentary called the Goldfield and they captured a ghost on camera. You know, I'm talking about Zach Begins and those the eyes for ghost adventures. They actually caught one on video. Can't deny it.

There it is. You know, until then, everybody's like, eh, it's possible, maybe. You know, maybe it's just playing with photography and it's not really there. Like, no, they got one on camera. Can't deny it. It's proof.

I've seen one. I've never been physically touched by one or, you know, anything like that. But I have seen one. And I felt their presence. I know when they're around, you know. I'm not so sure that I buy into where when people died, they just, they're left in limbo and don't know where to go. But, you know, I don't know any more than you do.

It's, I just find it hard to believe. But if that is the case, hey, I would be pissed, man. If I died and, you know, I'm rattling the dishes at 2 o'clock in the morning or tapping someone on their shoulder, you know, in a home that I used to live in. I would be pissed too. I mean, I get where you're coming from on what you're saying there. I think there's such things as light entities and dark entities. And I think dark entities feed off depression and anger and hatred and jealousy and doubt. And when you start feeling yourself with that, they feed off that.

And you have energies of light, light energies. And they feed off of hope and kindness and generosity. And, you know, they call it karma. Call it karma. You'll call whatever you want. I don't hear what you call it. But it's what it is. It's karma, you know.

Yeah, I guess it all comes down to individually what do you believe, you know, when it comes to ghosts or demons or what happens when you die. And, you know, unfortunately, none of us are really known until we're there. But, you know, a lot of people have different beliefs and that sort of thing. But, you know, I really appreciate you coming on, John, and sharing a bulk of your life, you know, from the Sasquatch encounter to this haunted home. And I can't wait to. chat with your sister because like you and I were talking the other day, a lot more had happened to her and she had witnessed way more than anyone else in the family. But I appreciate you sharing it with us and what happened to you. Really enjoyed chatting with you, John. Thank you so much for coming on.

Wes, I appreciate it, man. I really do. Like I said, you help out a lot of people who need to talk about it and who don't have people to talk to and I think you're doing a great job. Keep it up, brother. You're doing great. I appreciate it. Thank you so much, John. And that's it for tonight, everyone. Remember, if you've had an encounter, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. And if you get a chance, check out Sasquatch Chronicles.com. You can become a member and get additional shows. Tomorrow night, we'll be chatting with Dell, who comes to us from Georgia. Hope you guys can join me for that. Until next time, everyone.