Sasquatch Chronicles - SC EP:1139 How do you know you were ever really there

Episode Date: March 22, 2025

I am not sure how to write this one up. Spoke to the witness and before we started the interview he said "I have the creepiest paranormal encounter you have probably ever heard….30 min later I said "You were right, that was the creepiest thing I have ever heard." a listener writes "Hello Wes, I have listened to your show for a couple years now and was curious if you are still doing them. I have had some very strange encounters starting when I was a Senior in High School in 1989. I am now in Western North Carolina and after 4 years of a quiet life, I am now having encounters with creatures in the Smoky Mountains and my home here that sits atop a Mountain just outside the Cherokee Indian Reservation. I would love to discuss some of these events with you and possibly share some of my stories on your show if possible. Please let me know if you are interested. I do have some pics and Audio of some of my encounters as well."

I look over to the right across my friend out the window, and my brain skipped a beat. And I was like, what? And I, like, looked like three times real quick. And Corey said, what's wrong? And he was looking at me. And I said, look. And he looked over. And he looked back at me.

And his jaw was on the floor. Where the house was was like this pebble lot. You know, Drew, before we started recording, you told me this was going to be. probably the creepiest paranormal encounter that I've ever heard. And I was like, hmm, I guess we'll find out together. But I stand corrected. That is the creepiest paranormal encounter I've ever heard. Okay, all right.

Shooting ticks. It looked like somebody was bent over and had their head in the window of the deer blind. And it either heard me or smelt me. And he pulled his head out of the tent and stood straight up. that shocked me. They don't make people that big. The way it moved, almost as if it was gliding across the beach.

I've never seen anything moved like that in my life. They were screaming at each other in gibberish. It sounded like a language and they were chuntering away, back and forward, back and forward, back and forward. I know what a bear looks like, and there is no way on this planet but what I saw were bears. What is what are you putting? Jesus Christ, you better. Care?

See them. Get somebody out here. What's going on now, sir? That son of a bitch is about six foot nine. I don't know. Do you see him now, sir? Yes, I'm looking right in. Uh-uh.

This is Shane Grove, host of the From the Shadows podcast. And I'd like to introduce to you a host that I'd like to be when I grow up. West Germmer, and this is Sasquatch Chronicles. Welcome to the show, everyone. Thanks for being here tonight. Got a great show plan for you. We'll be chatting with Drew. And Drew comes to us from Western North Carolina.

And back less than a year ago, Drew had bought this huge piece of property. It sits on top of a mountain, and he's up there with his RV. And he's had a few run-ins with these creatures. And in the beginning, Drew told me, He goes, I didn't know what it was. Drew was also going to be sharing with us two paranormal events that kind of shaped his life.

One of the events was back in 1989, and there was an incident in 2009, and I'll kind of let Drew go into it. Probably one of the creepiest things I've ever heard. If you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. And if you get a chance, check out Sasquatch Chronicles.com, you can become a member and get additional shows. Let's jump into it tonight. I want to welcome Drew to the show.

Drew, thanks for coming on. Sure, absolutely. How are you? I'm doing well, man. Thank you so much for asking. And what I'd like to do is kind of start from the very beginning, going back to 1989, this weird event that happened to you. We'll just kind of go through the timeline. But if you would take me back to 1989, what were you doing?

And what happened? So in 89, I was in high school, and my dad took me on a full trip to South Dakota. And we stayed just outside the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, which is a Lakota Sioux Reservation. and it was late fall and my dad loves the Wild West. We were going on a trip that was going to take a total of about five weeks covered North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming.

And we stayed at this motel and probably about two in the morning. And this motel was one of these where there's like eight units, kind of like all together. And at like two in the morning, there was a knock on the door. And the weather had changed. It was pretty cold the night before cold front came in.

And there's this knock at the door. And of course, I jump up. My dad jumps up. And we looked at each other. So I'm in a double bed. He's in a double bed. We like both jump up, look at each other. and we look at the door and my dad was like, did somebody just knock at the door?

And I was like, I think so. If you heard it, I heard it. I wasn't dreaming. And so again, a knock at the door. So now we stand up and we meet together and we're standing at the door of this little motel. And there's a peephole. And my dad said, who'd be knocking on the door at 2 in the morning? And it's cold out.

And it had started snowing probably around 10 o'clock, so like four hours before, real light. And again, a knock at the door. Well, my dad looks out the peephole, and he looks at me with this confused look on his face. And I look back at him, and he goes, look, look, and I looked out the peephole. And standing right outside the door was, it looked like a little old woman. And she looked like she was in her like 90s. And she was all done up with a scarf around her neck and a jacket. And she had like a bandana wrapped around her head.

And I looked and I was like, what in the world? And again, knock at the door. So my dad opens the door and she's not standing there. And we looked across. Now this is outside the reservation, so you're kind of out in the middle of nowhere. And there's probably the parking lot, which is very small. And then there's a field that's probably three or 400 yards with a wooded tree line that starts probably 200 yards away.

And she was gone. And he said, what in the world? And so then I stepped into the doorway. And we could see her. she was standing a football field away. So in a matter of seconds from her knocking the last time, him opening the door, she went from standing right there to being like a football field away. And I pointed into the in front of the door where the snow had fallen.

And I said, look, there's prints there. And he opened the door. And there was these boot prints from, and it was a toe, then a spruce. space and a heel, so almost like a little boot, but the whole thing from toe to heel was probably only five inches, like these teeny tiny little prints. And the wild thing about it was there was prints. We could see them going through the parking lot into the field before the woodline where she was standing. And we could only see her because of the light of the snow. There wasn't like lights out there.

But we saw her standing there. But she went from standing at the doorway to a football field away in seconds, which is just hard to wrap your mind around. And I'm a high school student. And so my dad goes, get dressed. And so we got dressed. And we had a flashlight and camping gear and stuff. He grabbed a flashlight.

And when we looked back at, out the door. She was still standing facing us, but she was at the tree line now, which is probably 200 yards or whatever away. And he flashed his light towards her. And of course, the light didn't like hit her, hit her because we're so far away. And he goes, let's follow these tracks. We followed these tracks. My dad's looking at the ground holding this flashlight. I'm looking at her walking straight ahead behind my dad. And she turned and walked into the tree line. And when she walked into the tree line,

I was like, Dad, Dad, she just went into the woods. And this is, she looked like she was in her 90s. She was this little tiny thing. And to be out in the middle of nowhere was just like mind baffling to me. And so we followed her prints all the way across the field into the woods. and we followed her print, oh gosh, probably between a quarter and a half mile through the woods. There was those little prints, which was weird to me because in fresh snow, it was almost like step by step, those perfect boot prints, the little tiny boot prints.

We followed them quarter mile, half mile, and then they just stopped. and there was we're now like quarter half mile into the woods in the middle of nowhere of South Dakota near the Indian Reservation and they just stopped and we

took his flashlight we walked all directions like 50 yards the prints never picked up it's like they just vanished in this in there and that was my first ever encounter and to this day

my dad's now 83 years old to this day when I bring it up he doesn't even want to talk about it because it spooked him so bad almost like it never happened but it did happen yeah that is weird but what you were seeing was an actual i mean what you were perceiving with your eyes anyway was an actual human being it wasn't like you were thinking ghost or anything like that Yes, it looked exactly like a 90-some-year-old little frail woman. She was probably five feet or under. She was tiny and had a jacket. I can tell you, like when I picture it, my mind,

I can see exactly what she was wearing with the bandana wrapped around her head. It's not a bandana, but little old ladies wear something over their head that comes down, covers theirs, and ties. under their chin. That's what she had on. And she had on pants and these teeny little boots. And I didn't realize how small she was or how small her boots were until we started tracking it. And these boot prints were literally smaller.

I'm six foot. I have pretty big hands, but they were smaller than my hands from toe to heel. But she looked like a person. Like she looked like an actual human being standing there. You know, an older woman really is probably like the least threatening thing on the planet. But I'm trying to put myself in your shoes. If I look out there and she's a football field away in a matter of seconds, you know, I'm going to be like, I think I'm out on this one. I mean, did you at this point, did you think something weird was going on?

I did, honestly, but my dad is very old school. Like I said, he's 83. He's very old school and everything has to make sense to him. He doesn't believe in anything paranormal, anything crypted. He doesn't believe in anything. So if something weird happens, he has to get to the bottom of it and make it make sense. That's just the way he is. And because I was scared if I didn't have my dad, I wouldn't, there's no way.

I was going to follow these tracks into the woods. But my dad was like, we're going to follow him. And I was like, okay. And of course, you know, he raised five of us by himself. And so I was like, oh, he's the fearless leader. I'll be fine. But he thought somebody's playing a joke or something. And it didn't even me, all I know is that from that last knock to her being there,

to him opening the door and being a football field away. To me, that blew my mind. I was like, this isn't right. Something's wrong. And it's wild because the very next day, I talked to some local natives there and asked them, have you ever seen anything like this? And they said, well, we have skin walkers all over in South Dakota, all over the reservation.

and they said they can take the form of anyone, an animal, a person, but they said they thought, and they told me this, they thought that's what it was because how far she moved and how fast she moved. That was the first time in my life anything weird had happened at all. And before we move on to the incident in 2009, what do you think that this entity slash old woman wanted from you? Honestly, I have no idea because to me my first instinct, of course, I was a high school student.

My thought was as fast and far back as she moved was follow me, which everything inside of me, as a 17-year-old was like, don't follow her. but my dad from the older generations like who is that we have to find out who that is that but to me she wanted us to follow her why I don't know

because we followed them the tracks through the woods and then they came to a stop just I mean just came to a stop and so I don't know I don't think about that one a lot because of the next event that happened to me in 2009, which I wanted to tell you about in Chicago.

Yeah, whatever that old woman was, it sounds like a trap to me. But yeah, take me to 2009. In 2009, what I do for work-wise, I trap, I get to travel a lot. and it's usually between six to eight months and a year in a location. And there was somebody from the Travel Channel, I believe it was a producer,

was trying to put together that a group of people in my field, and they were going to, paranormal shows started big in 2004 with ghost hunters and then ghost adventures came out and stuff. And they were trying to take, people from different genres of careers. And, you know, we're going to put you on a guest show. And so what they did was they got myself and three other guys to do kind of like a celebrity ghost hunting event, if you will.

And this producer from Travel Channel started calling me in like 2008. And in 2009, I said, look, I said, I'm way too busy. I'm getting ready to move to the East Coast because I moved later in the fall of 2009 to the, excuse me, the West Coast. And I said, but if you have something locally that you want to come film, I'd do it. And I didn't, I hadn't had anything happened to me, paranormal, big foot wise, anything since that event with the old lady in 89. So it's now 2009. And they said, okay, well, we're going to advertise and, of course, Discovery owns history channel, travel channel, all that stuff. So they had all the paranormal shows.

Well, they created this mailbox, this email box. And I guess because I didn't watch the shows much, they would say, hey, if you have something happened to you in your area, email us. And so the producer called me one day like seven times. And finally I picked up and I was like, hey, I'm really busy doing a job right now. And he said, we got an email and it's from somebody that lives in Chicago. And they had kind of like a vetting process where they would go through, you know, because people would call in and have crazy stories that didn't make sense. And so they would kind of cut through the BS and get to people that actually,

they thought actually had things happen for real on a paranormal side. He said, hey, there's somebody right near city in Chicago. She said that she has a house that she lives in in the historical district that was built in the late 1800s. And she said she has turned the attic into a bedroom and there's a demon that lives there. And I was like, why? I was like, that's. wild and I was like but that sounds too wild and he said no she said she has photo evidence and it has put together all this proof uh that it does things to her and she's been to the doctor and has doctor's reports

and photos and all this stuff and I was like what I was like that's insane sounding to me and he said hey he said just reach out to her and he said talk to her because she's in your city he said maybe go buy her house if he can. And he said if it's something that's the real deal, we'll come and film, because of course it's expensive for them to come from Travel Channel headquarters

in Baltimore, or excuse me, Discovery headquarters in Baltimore, Maryland. He's like, this is how much it costs us a day, so make sure it's legit. So he gives me a landline and a cell number for this girl, and her name's Natalie Belcher. I'll never forget the name.

She was a waitress. at a place in Chicago called Scores. It's kind of like a cross between a sports bar, high-end sports bar and a gentleman's club, if you will. And he said, she's a waitress there. And so he sends me, forwards me this emails, and I have her numbers. And I call her and she answers.

And she said, yeah, she said, I live, it's like a park avenue type street. She said, I live here. And she said, I start turning. the attic into my bedroom like six, seven months ago. And she said, there's a demon that lives there and he does this to me and that to me. And I was just like, it sounded so far-fetched to me that I was very skeptical. And she said, well, you can come over and check out my house. And she said, and see for yourself. Well, of course, she lived like 25 minutes from me in the city. And I was like, of course,

I'll come over, but I'm not coming alone. I'll bring a couple friends. And so got done talking to her, called the producer back. I said, hey, this sounds pretty legit. She said she has photos and all this stuff of bruising and bite marks and all of this.

I said, so I want to go check it out. And he said, well, we have a still photographer that works on all the famous like ghost shows, if you will. And he said, we'll fly her out and send her she'll go with you. And I said, that's fine. I said, I'm going to bring a friend of mine too just because I don't know what I'm getting into. You know, I'm in a city of four and a half million people. And so set a date and time in the

afternoon at like two in the afternoon. And so I drive down and it's me, a friend of mine who's a guy and the female still photographer that works for the Discovery Channel. And so we're driving down. and you have to imagine this Park Avenue Road. So it's in the historic district, and it runs like eight blocks, and it goes one way with like a six-foot grass median, and then one way coming back. And it's two lanes, but the right-hand lane, none of these old houses from the 1800s have driveways or garages or anything.

So you park on the street, and there's like one spot per house. and they kept this Park Avenue very beautiful. They would do the street lamps with lighting at Christmas time, but this median, there was flowers. So everyone that lived there had to take care of their home and their yard very meticulously because it's in the historic district in the city in Chicago. So we're driving down. We have the address. We drive down and there's an empty spot. I pull over and I'm going down this one way.

pull over and look over at the house and I'm like well this is it and I'm nervous because I've never been involved in anything paranormal or any of that and the the story she told me was just like mind blowing to me and nothing in my life had happened except that event in 89 for so I was kind of skeptical at the time and so we got out and the still photographers automatically just starting taking pictures because she went with us, but she works for discovery. She's taking pictures of this house. And I was like, this house is beautiful. And it was like a two-story kind of Victorian-style house, square footage, not huge on the

main floor or second floor. I would say 900 to 1,000 square feet on each floor. But it had like a widow's walk at the top. It was a really cool house. She's taking photos. Me and my buddy get out and we're like joking, kind of cracking jokes. Like, you know, this is probably going to be something ridiculous. And this front door opens and this girl walks out.

And she like waves to us and we're walking up from the street. And she's like, hi. She's like, nice to meet you. And I was like, hi. And I was like, how are you? I said, tell me your story. Tell me what's going on. And this was all just in case this happened to be true,

so Discovery could film an episode to put on one of their shows. So this is like all precursor stuff. And I told him, I said, if it's BS, I'll call BS. If I think she's full of it, then we'll leave and that's that. And so, but I did have an interest, obviously, is why I went. And so we walked inside and the house is from front to back long. So it's rectangular shaped. The house is narrow, but the length of the house is pretty long.

And so we walked inside and there's a couch on the left. And the still photographer girl walked over and sat down. And she said, hey, I'm going to sit here. and she said, I'll take some photos and stuff. And the girl said, she said, hey, Drew, she said, come with me into the kitchen. She said, I want to show you something. So I told them both. I was like, hey, just chill out here.

I'm going to go with her. Walked in through a swing door, almost like at a restaurant when you push, just the door opens one way on a hinge. Walked in and there's this tiny little octagon kitchen. probably 10 feet by 12 feet with windows on the sides. And there was a little tiny, like three foot diameter kitchen table. And she had two legal pads, two pens sitting on the table. And she sat down facing me across the table for me on this little table. And her back was against the window.

My back, to give you an idea, was against the door that we came in. And she said, what I want you do is she said, I'm going to turn around in my chair. And she said, I want you to think, close your eyes and think for a couple minutes. If you lived in a past life where you would live and I want you to draw it. And I was like, oh, I was like, okay, I'll play along. So she turned around and I closed my eyes and I was like, where would I live if I lived in a past life? It was kind of like a joke to me. and I was like, you know, if I lived in a past life, I would be a knight, and I would live in a castle.

And that's just what I came up with in my head. So I can't draw for anything. I'm terrible. So I draw a little castle. And most castles, as we know it, at least as I know it, have moats around them. And I was like, my castle wouldn't have a moat because that's a deterrent to war. And I wouldn't need that because I would be so brave. So my castle didn't have a moat.

I drew like stick figure trees, like eight of them. And in the behind the castle, I drew like this little corral, and I drew literally like five stick figure horses. And then me, like in the back left corner. And I said, okay, I'm done. And I turned the legal pad upside down, and I put my elbows on it. She turned around, she said, look at me. And I looked at her in her eyes.

She looked at me for about 60 seconds like she was looking through me. and I swear she drew exactly what I drew. She drew a castle with no moat, stick figure trees, me in the corner, a corral with the horses, same number, like to a tee. And that freaked me out immediately. This is like 10 minutes within meeting her and being in this house. And I was just mind blown. And I actually made me nervous and I stood up. and I was like, hey, let's go out here because that's where my friend and the photographer was at.

I was feeling super uncomfortable. I was like, let's go out of here. And she's like, okay. So we walked out. And I was just speechless. And I was like, so trying to think of something to say. I was like, so you have a demon that lives in your attic, huh? And she goes, yeah, she goes, but you can't go up there.

I was like, what do you mean I can't go up there? And she goes, there's like an invisible force field that will not let you go up there. And I was like, come on. I'm six foot, 190 pounds. I've been an outdoorsman athlete my whole life. Nothing's going to stop me. That's invisible. And she goes, well, if you want to really go up there, she's like, I'll take you up there.

But she said, you won't be able to go into the room. And I said, let's go after you. And so standing outside of that kitchen door, there's a wall and a stairwell that goes up into the attic. But the stairwell, if you're in the living room, you could see up and then it's a wall. So you can see me walk up and then I would slowly disappear. It's like two flight of steps in one. It's an old house. And so I said, do first.

She walked in front of me. We started walking up the steps. And in my head, I'm like, yeah, right. I'm just going to walk right in here. Literally got two steps from the doorway. She walked through the threshold of the doorway in the attic. And I got two steps from it. And it was like I walked into a plexiglass.

Like, boom, I couldn't walk any further. And so I was like, what? And my brain is going a thousand miles an hour. I'm still freaked out by what she did in the kitchen by drawing what I saw and what I drew. And so there's these, the, this old house had like the five inch wide trim around the doorways. Well, that's what was trimmed through this attic doorway. And I reached up and reached through doorway with my hands, I guess, would be turned out. And I jumped and pulled myself through the doorway. And it was warm outside. Chicago can be humid part of the air.

And when I jumped through the doorway, I went like that, like pulling myself. And when I, like, landed on my feet and I could see my breath as if it were 20 degrees outside. And she turned around and she smiled at me. And she said, isn't it cool up here? And when she did, her eyes went solid white. No color, no pupils, nothing. They were stone white. And the thing that freaked me out the most is that that very second, I had this.

massive, how can I say, this massive, like, I was attracted to her instantly, and that scared me to death. And I turned around and took, to go down those two five of steps, I took like three steps, fell to the bottom of the steps, and ran out of the door. And on my way out, said, guys, come on. And so we ended up in the front yard. I turned around and she was standing in the doorway and she said, is everything okay? and she was smiling. And I was terrified. After what she did in the kitchen,

after that whole event going into the attic, I was completely just scared out of my mind. So I said, this is too much. And I said, we're going to leave, but we'll be in touch. And we hopped in, of course, they didn't know what happened. They didn't know what happened in the kitchen.

They didn't know what happened upstairs. And so I said, hey, I said, this is too much. I don't want any part of this. And so we drove back to my place in Chicago. And I called that producer. And I said, hey, I don't know what the hell is going on at that girl's house. But I said, it's out of my league. Like, this is too much.

And so I quick, like, tried to explain what happened. And he said, oh, my gosh. He said, well, you know, we have X amount of cast members that are into demonology and this and that. And they said, we'll get them in touch with you. And I was like, I'm not going back to that house. I was like, I don't know what's going on. But it scared me to death. And I'm not afraid of anything.

And that scared me to death. And so the still photographer, she flew back. And my buddy, he stayed over at my place. for a couple days, I told him what happened. We tried to come up with something that made sense. We couldn't come up with anything that made sense. And about a week and a half goes by. And I don't hear anything.

And it's eating at me and eating at me. And I'm like, what was that? What is that? What's going on? And so I called the girl and I was like, I have to go back there. It was weird. I was like being drawn back. There was something.

There were so many questions with what happened. I was like, I have to go back there. I have to go back to that house. So I pulled up the email that had her landline and her cell number. I called the cell. I'm sorry, this number's not in service at this time. I called the landline. I'm sorry.

this number's not service at this time. And I was like, what in the world? So I told my buddy that went with me the first time. His name's Corey. I said, hey, I said, let's go back to her house. He's like, oh, he's like, you don't want to show up at somebody's house. And I said, look, it's been like 10 or 12 days, I think, at this point. And I said, I have to know what's going on. I haven't heard anything from the producer, Travel Channel. None of the people he said would get in touch with me did. I was like, I need to know what's going on. So I said, let's just go by her house. And he's like, all right, I'll go with you. So it's like a Monday afternoon at like two in the afternoon. We hop in my car. We take off driving, head down, turn right on Park Avenue, start

driving down. Same spots open. And we pull over there. We pull over. I put my car in park. There's a guy like a house down from hers who's outside and he's like, messing, trimming flowers. And like everybody's home had beautiful flowers. It was that whole street was just amazing. And I noticed him as I'm pulling in and I pull in, put it in park. And I looked over to my right, because I'm the curbs on my right, I look over to the right across my friend out the window and my brain skin.

tip to beat. And I was like, what? And I, like, looked like three times real quick. And Corey said, what's wrong? And he was looking at me. And I said, look. And he looked over and he looked back at me and his jaw was on the floor. And there was where the house was, and these houses are like 20 feet apart. The very 1880s shoved close together, you know, front to back depth wise, longer than they are wide. Where the house was, was like this pebble lot with the little pea gravel

like the size of like 20% the size of a marble. And this guy that's working on his flowers, of course, they're very protective of their neighborhood. And he notices us and he comes walking over. And I roll my window down and he goes,

can I help you? And I was like, yeah. I was like, where's missing? Belcher's house. And he goes, what? I said, where's Miss Belcher's house, this house right here? And I said, I was here like less than two weeks ago. I said, where's her house? And he kind of laughed at me. And he's standing outside my window. I'm sitting in the car. And my friend's jaw is still on the floor. And he goes, he goes, the city of Chicago said that house was quote, and he did the finger quotes. He said that house was, quote, haunted. He said, so they tore it down four years ago.

And I said, no, I was in that house two weeks ago. And he said, that's impossible. He said, that house was torn down four years ago. I've lived here 20 years. And my brain just spun. Yeah, that's really, really weird. Because even the discovery lady was there with you guys. Yep. She was there. And to this day, I have pictures of my because she was taking photos. She took pictures of me outside of the house. Yeah, I would love to see those pictures. That's really bizarre. What do you make of that? It's very bizarre. I don't know, but after the guy walked away and knew we weren't there to do any harm to the neighborhood or houses, we went home back to my place. My friend to this day still has anxiety about that

whole incident because he was with us too. And I, what I did was I called that producer from the travel channel and he put me in touch with a demonologist from Connecticut. His name's John Zaffis. And I told him the story. And the only thing he said, which made my head spin even more, was he told me, he said, he said, how do you know you were ever even there? And I was like, huh?

it's it's what i make of it is we were there for reason there was three of us that were there i have my picture with that house like supposedly four years after it was torn down it's like we were called there drawn there for some reason but i still don't understand the purpose because what she did to me this is what john told me he told me that doing the drawings of a past life was he thought a way of a demon trying to get inside my head is what he told me. And I was like, gee, thanks, because I'm a pretty normal person. And I was like, thanks. But he said that there's some event that happened in my life that has caused that to happen, if you will,

and caused me to be drawn to that location, which is weird because I moved out. of Chicago literally that fall and moved to the West Coast, moved to Scottsdale, Arizona, and then to Vegas in 2011. But I don't know what the significance was because I didn't know that girl. I didn't know anyone on that street or anything. And here's what's interesting, Wes, is that I was born and raised in Chicago. I know a lot of people. and so I went to a friend of mine that I graduated high school with who's a Chicago

police officer in Chicago and I said hey I said if I give you these phone numbers in this name can you like run it in a system I don't want you to like lose your job but see if like where this person lives or when they lived at a certain address and so he did he came back to me and he told me that he couldn't find that person in a existence at all. That first and last name, those phone numbers, he couldn't find anything. And so I went to scores because originally in her email, she had said that she was a waitress at Scores.

So I went to the Scores in Chicago and talked to the general manager and without freaking him out, told him kind of what happened. And so he looked up past employees at Scores. there was never a girl that scores under that name, ever. Do you still have the pictures of yourself inside the home? Yep, yep. Yep, I have them on an external hard drive. Can you send them to me?

I would love to see them. Sure, sure. Yeah, I was using a, you know, this is 09. I had Windows, computer and stuff. Of course, I use Mac and everything now with technology, but I still have it on external hard drive. It's the wildest thing that's ever happened in my life. And I haven't shared that story with many people, but my few friends that I have,

they're just like, wow. And Corey, the guy that was with us, and Jill, who was the still photographer for discovery, they don't even want to talk about it. Because I'm not close with them. I moved to the West Coast 2,000 miles away. But when I have talked to them, I've brought them up. they don't even want to talk about it because it freaked them out so much. Yeah, I don't even know what to say or what to ask.

What do you think initialize this whole thing? I don't know if it was the connection with some of the people I've lost in my life. Close friends lost my daughter. I don't know if there's any sort of connection, but no one, none of them lived in that part of the city or anything like i don't know i don't know it to me it felt completely random you know and it was terrifying like i you know it's time that's been what 15 years ago 16 years ago almost now i don't think about it often but it's always in the back of my head and i tried not to overthink uh because john the zaffus the demonologist who at the time had to was on two paranormal

shows he told me he said don't overthink it because you'll drive yourself crazy and you'll think about it the rest of your life so i've tried not to overthink it but it it was terrifying i mean everything that happened in that short 30 minute time frame and then going back there and them telling me the house had been torn down four years ago but i know for a fact that i was there two weeks of before i i try not to think too much into it you know but there had to be something that drew me to that house. Like there has to be an answer. Just I can't tell you what it is.

I don't know what it is. So I've kind of just tried to block it out if that makes sense. Yeah, it does make sense. And I think we do that to kind of protect ourselves and not get to, you know, I could see something like this driving someone crazy. It's a strange account. It'll definitely stay with me. I really appreciate you sharing it.

And it just makes you wonder why it happened to you. I know before we came on the air, you were telling me about your daughter and how she passed away. And God rest her soul. And there was a lot of death going on in your life with family members and friends during this time. But I don't know why it would cause something like this. Yeah, it's going to stay with me for a while.

while. If you would, let's go to 2024 because you bought this piece of property and it's kind of on top of a mountain. If you would kind of start from the beginning, what's going on there? Yeah, 2024. It was April, I believe it was the fourth, fourth or fifth, was, so last year, I came from Las Vegas. Of course, that's where my office is, came to Western North Carolina to do a job. And I didn't know anything about Western North Carolina. Knew it was gorgeous mountains. I knew the Cherokee Indian Reservation was close by.

And actually got, came to do a job at Harris Cherokee Casino in Cherokee. And so I was like, well, I've spent my whole life. My dad had us out hunting gun safety courses at 14 or 15 had us hunting deer, pheasants, everything. And so I was like, this is great. I've been in Vegas. I've been in Utah all over doing my work. But I'm going to get back to nature. So I found a small piece of property. It's 2.7 acres, and it's about a quarter mile off the Kuala boundary is what it's called, but it's the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians Reservation. Their whole reservation is called the Kuala Boundary, and it's just off of it, literally a stone's throw. And it was atop this mountain, and I was like, this is perfect, it's cheap. And when I travel to do jobs, it's

either Airbnb for kind of long term because the jobs are six to eight, 12 months. But what I did was in 2022, I bought a 50-foot RV. And I was like, I can drive to these, take my dog. My dog's getting older. I can take my dog with me. And so brought my RV, bought the property, pretty much sight unseen, pictures, a couple videos that one of the guys sent me.

and so came here uh got here january 8th of 24 and it was cold it snowed and i loved to hike i love the outdoors and always carry i have a ccw with me that's good in 22 states out of nevata but north carolina is one of them always carry with me i know the dangers that are in the woods i've been everywhere from glacier i've had football field encounters if you will with grizzlies. I had one in Yellowstone. So I'm aware of wildlife and what's out there and spending a lot of time in the in the woods as much as possible. I know the animals that are out there. And this is a new part of the world for me. So I came here. I did what I call back country hiking where there is no trail. You just take off and go and I'll go in 10, 12 miles, spend a few days and then hike back out.

And then so April of 24, I am here just off the native reservation here in Cherokee, which is where I'm at currently. And it's probably about, I don't know, it's probably 6, 45, 7 o'clock at night, sun's going down. And I'm making my own trail through the woods. And I always walk 50, 60 yards, stop, listen, pay attention to my surroundings. And, of course, I had a few run-ins with grizzlies, nothing up close. Like I said, football field or more away. But I knew there's black bears here. I knew there's stories of jaguars here.

And, of course, there's coyotes and rattlesnakes and everything else. So I like stop. and I hear something stop and it like step step when I stopped I heard like two steps and a stop I was like what in the world is that

and I look around there's nothing around me and I have a half a million candle watt power flashlight with me with my backpack full of tons of other stuff and I sit down I literally sit down up against a tree and I just listen

because spending as much time as I have in my lifetime in the woods, you become accustomed to listening is like your best. Seeing is tough, especially when it's getting dark, so your ears are always the best thing. And so I'm listening, and I don't hear anything. It's dead silent. I hear birds, and I hear a little in the leaves, and I look over and there's squirrels running, saw a rabbit.

And so I probably waited a half. hour and then I got up and as I started to walk it's starting to get dark and I was like well I'm going to start making my way to make a camp for the night and I step out on this and I'll send you pictures of this because I have it too I step out on what looked like it used to be a hiking trail 50 years ago it's like grown over and it's not a game trail it's an hiking trail but it's hasn't been used in probably 50 years. And it's all covered up and stuff. And so I get out and I start walking on it.

Well, as I'm walking this trail, I pull my flashlight out. I turn my flashlight on because it's getting closer to being dark. And the canopy of the woods of the Smoky Mountains gets extremely dark. Like there's, if you're in the woods, you can't even see the sky because the coverage is so insane. And so I'm walking with my flashlight, not thinking of it. I'm not worried about anything. I have my firearm with me. I'm not worried about anything.

And as I'm walking, I hear something walking with me. And so I stopped. And when I stopped, it stopped. I walked like three steps forward. It walked three steps forward. And it was off to my right, probably. It sounded like it was maybe 15 feet away. So when I stop the second time, I hit my flashlight to the right.

And I can probably see 60, 70 feet into the woods because it's spring. So it's not, the trees aren't fully bloomed and it's like not super full of leaves. So I can see deep into the woods and there's nothing there. And so I take five more steps. It takes five steps with me. And I was like, let me see. I'm going to back up. So I backed up three steps.

it backed up with me. While I'm holding the flashlight into the woods, I can hear it, which sounds 15, 20 feet away at the most, but there's nothing there. And I was like, starting to get creeped out. Then all of a sudden I noticed,

I can't hear any birds. It's like the woods went dead silent. And I started getting really creeped out. And I'm not afraid of much. I've been through a lot in my life. I've come across some pretty big, predatory animals throughout my travels. This really freaked me out. Like the hair on my neck stood up. And so out of nowhere, whatever it was started laughing at me. And it wasn't a kid's laugh. It wasn't an

adult laugh. It sounded like a freaking hyena laughing at me. But it was 15 feet for me. and so I'm trying to get my phone out because I want to record this and I'm like shaking, trying to get my iPhone out of my pocket. And I'm like, I have to record this. And so I start taking walking forward and it starts walking with me and it's laughing. And it's not a human laugh. It's like a hyena. And it sounded like, and excuse me, this sounds ridiculous. ridiculous, but it was like a, ha ha ha ha ha.

And I was like, what in the world? And so being outdoors my whole life, I know no matter what you come across, you never run from anything, whether it's a wolf, a coyote, a bear. You never run. So I was in my head, I was telling myself, Drew, don't run. Don't run. Don't run. As scared as you are, do not run. And I couldn't, there was nothing for me to pull my firearm out because they, they, you know,

There was nothing there. I couldn't see anything. And I had this huge light beam. And so I basically hiked another probably 500 yards up on top of the crest of this little mountain. And it had stopped probably 100 yards before I got to the top. And I was literally like scanning the woods with my flashlight where this walking and this laughter was coming from, backing up on this old trail that hadn't been used in forever. And I set up camp, I didn't sleep a wink that night because I was just terrified and nothing

else happened. But that was my first encounter here across from the Smoky Mountains outside of Cherokee. That was like April 4th or April 6th of 24 of last year. So being here doing the work that I'd do. do. So to give you an idea if you don't know this area and you can look it up if you if you want to, but people that are listening if they know this area at all. So from Cherokee to Gatlinburg, as the eagle, as the crow flies, it's probably 28 miles, but it takes like an hour because you have to go over what's called the gap. And you go up thousands of feet up these winding

roads to the top of the smoky mountains and you can see there's stop points where you can see for hundreds of miles and then it goes back down there's there's park rangers national park rangers that patrol that area because if weather's bad or winds high they close it down and a lot of semis will try to cut through the gap to save themselves going around and save like three hours so there's always park rangers posted up there and after that happened to me last April. In May, I took a day and drove up there. And you'll see the park rangers. The entrance to the Blue Ridge Parkway is right there and stuff at the entrance to the Smoking National Park, which starts the road to the gap. And I drove up there one day. And I saw two of the park

rangers and I stopped and asked him. I said, hey, listen, I said, this is going to sound really bizarre, but I said, I have this audio. I was like that country hiking. I have this audio of something laughing at me. Can you please tell me if you've ever heard this? If it's an animal, I don't know, because I have heard stories when I was in Colorado that there's some birds that sound like that or a fox can sound like that. And these guys live here and they work. That's the only thing they work as the smoking the gap pass and i played it for them and they said that is creepy we've never heard anything like that and we have no idea what kind of animal or person or whatever that is they said we've never heard that before and they told me two of them told me that was creepy so

it's not a local animal that like everyone knows i know that for a fact because those were the guys to ask Yeah, if you would, Drew, tell me about the next incident that happened, because I know that you went back up. And did you go back up for curiosity? Not that I don't blame you. Yes, of course, because I couldn't see anything. I didn't get harmed. I just got the, you know what, scared out of me, but I didn't get hurt. And it left me with a million questions.

And so I went back. up there, found that old hiking trail. And that's when I actually saw something. So that was, I went up there three or four times last fall. Then we had a really harsh winter here, eight, nine, ten inches of snow, single digit degrees, black ice, all of that. So about five weeks ago is when I went back again. and I actually

it's so I'm if you can imagine so I'm I walk up through the woods and I know where the trails at the trail kind of runs if you can imagine a small mountain small mountain meaning 2,000 feet from bottom to top

and there's a circular like racetrack trail about three quarters of the way up that goes around the mountain itself that's that old hiking trail So I went through the woods, up to it, caught the trail, started walking around and got probably two football fields from where I had that first encounter a year ago. And I heard the laughing.

I didn't hear any walking. I heard the laughing. And when I looked to the right, and of course, it was, by the time I got up there, it was dark. But I had all the necessities with me. and I looked to the right and before I could, I had my flashlight on facing straight ahead. And when I looked to the right, before I could turn the flashlight over, I saw two extremely bright red eyes. The only thing I can compare it to is they were electric, like Christmas light, like electric, glowing red eyes. I mean super bright.

And when I looked and then I hit it with my flashlight, that's when I saw it looked like, this is going to sound so stupid, but it looked like I could see the outline and it almost looked like a koala bear. It was maybe the red eyes were probably only three feet off the ground. and when I shined it, I couldn't see at first any, like, definition. All I saw was this solid black mass that was shaped like a koala bear, like short and stout, with these red eyes. And then I started walking towards it, and I probably walked 10 feet towards it.

And as I'm starting to be able to see hair and skin, I thought it was like this little koala bear thing. And I thought for a second in my mind at the time I was like, maybe it's a black bear or something. And I've come across probably 15 or 16 black bears hiking throughout here during the daytime. And they will sometimes sit and like just look at you, but the slightest noise will scare them off. They're very, they're very timid here. And when I started walking towards it and start actually seeing hair and stuff, it stood straight up. And now the eyes were four feet above me. And I was on the same plane level as it. Like it wasn't up above me. It was like on the same as me. but when it stood up, I'm six foot tall, 190 pounds.

It stood up and its eyes were like, now I was looking down at me. And that's when I kept, why I don't know, but I kept walking towards it with my flashlight. Because I had this half million candlewatt power flashlight. And then I saw arms, legs, hands, shoulders, its face. and the craziest thing was that my total time walking towards it and of course my brain's trying to process what I'm seeing and what I'm looking at was maybe six or seven seconds and it it like growled barked at me it went look like that and I like picked up my pace and was walking

faster towards it and the faster I walk towards it. It's like, Wes, it's like it backed up into the trees, but wasn't like looking like, oh, I'm going to look where I'm standing. It was staring at me, looking down at me, and, but it backed up at a pace that a person would have tripped over a log or got their boots caught and leaves. Like, it backed up and literally I stopped for maybe three seconds, and it never turned around, never turned its head. It backed into the darkness and just vanished. It just vanished into the darkness, and I started to jog towards it, and there was nothing there. There was nothing there.

It was gone. And at your closest, how close were you to this saying? Oh, gosh. at the closest 20 feet. Like it was extremely close to me, extremely close to me. Yeah, and those glowing red eyes,

man, that's too close. As you got closer, were you able to make out in any sort of details? Oh, yeah. Not at first,

but when I started picking up the pace towards it and could see hair, it was black, black hair. and its skin color, which the only skin color, the skin color was like a gray, and it was on its hands and its chest and its face. That's all, everything else was black.

And it looked like, it looked like, I've seen people on videos in TV, on TV, and people in gilly suits. Looked like a gilly suits are too neat. This was like a mess. It was like imagine. So you know Cookie Monster, right? Cookie Monster, it's blue hair is all frayed and everything.

That's what it was, but it was jet black. Except I could see the hands on it or the gray skin on the palms of its hands, its chest and its face. and it was like growl barking at me. It was, but I felt it. I could feel it in my feet. I could feel it in my chest. Like it wasn't like if a dog barks at you.

I've run into coyotes. I ran into coyotes at Yellowstone and they were yipping at me. Like nothing like that. This when it woof at me, I felt it like in the earth. And I told one of my closest friends about it. And he said, I can't believe you went towards it. But after the encounter I had a year ago, I wanted to know. I wanted to see what it was.

And so that's why I kept going forward. And like I said, I've been through a lot in life, so I'm not really afraid of a lot. But I just kept going forward. And as I did, it moved backwards almost like it levitated. It didn't turn around and look where it was going. It was looking down at me and just backed into it. to the darkness. It's hard to explain. It's like it floated into the darkness. But it was definitely a thousand percent something physical because of the eyes and the hair. Like I was 20 feet from it

with a half a million candlewatt power flashlight. But what I saw of it and of its skin and of its face and of its teeth when it was like growl barking at me, I could vaguely see its mouth. It, I wasn't, it's weird. I wasn't afraid. I mean, looking back, I'm like, damn, that was stupid. But I wasn't afraid in the moment. When you were looking at this thing, what stood out to you the most? Were you able to get any details of the face?

obviously beyond the glowing red eyes, which does get reported. Number one, the height was like, holy smokes, that's huge. The width of the shoulders were very wide. I would say probably three feet, three and a half feet across. The face had a very old look to it, kind of like a baboon, you know, Baboons have a like wrinkled look to their skin. If the gray skin on its face, it looked, it looked old. It was very wrinkly looked old.

Those two, like the eyes, the skin, the face and its teeth didn't have canines. It had teeth like a person. But it looked, it didn't look like a person and it didn't look like an ape. It looked like an animal. and that's weird to say even out loud but it was like a mix of of a few things it didn't I never thought that's a person I never thought that's an ape it was I was just like what is that it's like a cross between everything that when it growled barked at me and like I felt it my feet that freaked me out but I was like no this is like your opportunity

to find out what it is. And outside of its body, the size, the width of the shoulders, the thing that freaked me out, probably more than anything, even the eyes, because it stared me, it stared through me. It didn't, wasn't like looking around or it, like, I locked eyes with the red eyes. It never took its eyes off me. It was like looking through me. But the thing that freaked me out the most was that it moved backwards into the woods with no sense. no hesitation and a very fluid motion. And that freaked me out, of course, thinking about it the next day and the days after.

That freaked me out more than anything is how it moved in pitch black in the middle of the woods, how it moved back into the woods without making a sound. And I'm looking at the pictures you sent me, and it does look like a remote area. Looks like a beautiful area. and all of this is basically happening in your front yard. I know you're going out there hiking.

Have you continued to hike? No. So after that, that was five weeks ago. After that, of course, the adventurer in me wants to go back, but that was enough for me because the size of the thing, the creature itself, the size was just, like, I wouldn't have a chance. I don't even know why I walked towards it other than having so much. many things happened to me, like with the house and the girl, and not ever having answers.

I was like, I'm going to get answers. I don't know why I did that, but I didn't go back, although I wanted to. And so the property that I have, which is not too far as the crow flies from that encounter, I was, a week later, I was here on this property, and I was walking my dog at night. And because there are black bears, coyotes and stuff like that, and black bears are coming out to hibernation, and they're coming out with cubs and they're hungry and can be aggressive right now. I carry my firearm and my flashlight. Well, I take my dog and I'm walking down the property. And I'm looking down and I look up with my flashlight.

When I put my flashlight up, this is about four weeks ago, I see something about my husband. height and size, but solid black, no features, run across my flashlight from right to left in a matter of a second. And my dog stopped and he looked up and he stopped dead in his tracks. And I was like, I looked over to the left and where it went right to left was the woods are on the right and to the left is a part of my property that's grated and opened. So there's like no trees right there. an acre of graded openness. But there was nothing there. And I was like, what in the world?

So I thought maybe I just saw a reflection or something off of a tree because there's certain trees up here where I'm at just off the Kuala Boundary that are tagged and they have these little silver tags with numbers on them. And I'm not sure forestry-wise why they have that, but they're there. And I was told not to remove them. Sometimes my flashlight will hit them and they'll reflect light. So I thought maybe I hit one of those or something. That was four weeks ago.

And so I walk him down. He goes to the bathroom, walking back up to my RV. And as we're walking back up, my property, I look up and I see a shadow cast across my RV that looks like a person, like an actual person. head, shoulders, arms, legs, but it's sitting still. And I was like, what in the world? So I was probably 50 yards from my RV. So I picked up the pace, turned my flashlight on, and I literally watched the shadow cast, walked down the side of my RV. And my RV from the back of my RV to the woods is about 20 feet. And it went into the woods. And I stopped and I put him in my RV, came outside, and I just sat and listened. And I didn't hear any crunching, any walking,

nothing. And so that was the end of that night. And then a week later, which is about three weeks ago, I take him out for a walk, put him in the RV. And I'm building a little fire. and I was like, oh, I'm going to enjoy the weather got nice like three weeks ago down here. It's been like bipolar. It would be like 25 at night and then 65 during the day. It was a beautiful night. It was only supposed to get down into the 40s. I was like, I'll build a little fire.

So I build a fire. I'm sitting there and I hear what sounds like kids, like little four or five-year-old kids talking. And they sound like they're talking two feet behind me. And I flew out of my chair and spun around. And I was like, hello, hello. And there is, it just went silent. And so I started walking down the open part of my property next to the woods. And as I'm walking, I could hear these little, it sounded like little kids talking.

And I was like, what in the world is going on? And this is now like three weeks in a row. And so I stopped, listen to see if I could make out any words or anything, but it just sounded like little kids talking, but it was like mumbled like this. And I was like, what in the world? So I went back up, put my fire out, went to sleep, took him out every day as I always do. Nothing happened. Then two weeks ago, I come home from work, take him out. He's sitting outside, and I've got him on a, got like a 20-foot.

leash that I've got tied around a big tree and so he can go out and sniff and play in leaves and stuff and so he's doing that and I swear I hear what sounds like a baby crying and I was like what the world and so I go over grab him unhook him I put him in the RV and I had music playing inside and outside my RV I shut the music off and I'm just standing there and it's sounds like, like a baby crying. And I was like, it's maybe coyotes or a fox or something, because I've heard almost every animal in nature. And there's some crazy sounds that they could make.

And I was like, oh, maybe it's that. Well, I sent you a picture, Wes, from the property that I'm at right now talking to you. And across the way as the crows fly, it's the crows fly, it's probably half a mile across to the next mountain. well after this baby sound i heard stopped about 10 minutes later i hear a roar from the mountain i sent you a picture of which is half a mile away but i'm up high elevation so it looks a lot closer i hear a roar that almost sounded like the ohio howl style but it was deeper and it was louder and it was longer and it was freaking loud and the thing about it is it probably lasted i recorded it on

audio and i think it was which you know time second wise is a lot longer than we think i think it was like 21 seconds this roar but what really freaked me out was it stopped and i was like standing there going that's cool i wonder if it's going to do it it again because obviously I knew it was so far away. Well, out of nowhere, I'm about two football fields from the top of the mountain that I'm on. It's just straight woods up like two football fields. Out of nowhere, like an answering roar comes from directly behind me back at that one. And it like shook me. It shook me so bad. I'd like ran inside my. RV and locked my door.

But it continued. They went back and forth from like my mountain top. And that mountain top is on the Cherokee reservation. I sent you a picture of it. It was like they're communicating back and forth. Like it was so deep, so loud, back and forth that inside my RV and I'm holding my dog because I'm like, don't bark. because I felt that was the first time I felt even being close to that creature that was backing in the woods,

these roars with one sounding like it was on top of my mountain answering back. I felt scared. I felt like threatened. So I picked up my dog and I was like, oh, please don't make any noise. Don't bark. And I could hear them with my RV doors shut and locked. I could hear them back and forth and I could feel it in my RV. And that scared the crap out of me.

And that was just two weeks ago. And so that's what I'm dealing with now. And now I have something happening like every week. Yeah, it sounds like it's ramping up. And you'll often see that with their behavior. And it's my opinion, of course. But a lot of times when that curiosity takes over, man, you start going into their area.

And you know, it's, and I get the curiosity part. but then they start coming in your area and it starts to get a little uncomfortable. And there's somewhat of a frustration that builds up because, you know, you don't know what they're going to do. You don't know it's the unknown, I guess. And I've had many reports of eyewitnesses saying they've heard children laughing, children playing, strange vocals that you wouldn't necessarily hear in the forest in the middle of nowhere. It's not like there's a park nearby where there would be kids playing. But that does get reported.

And the glowing eyes, that gets reported more than, more than I think most people realize. I've heard it so many times their eyes glowing like Christmas lights. I would be very, very careful in that area. Definitely keep an eye on. on your dog and I would try to avoid confrontation at all costs because you're not going to win and you're alone. You're up there. It's just you and your dog and just be careful, man. You know, I ask everyone on the show, what do you think Sasquatch is? What's your take? You know, I figured you were going to ask me that. I don't, honestly, I don't know. I think

if I had to give an answer, it is, there definitely, I don't believe that, and I've heard lots of people talk about different things, listening to your show and other encounters. Me personally, everything I've come across,

there's nothing that tells me that it's some human animal hybrid. I believe that it's got to be, I think that it's definitely part animal, but I feel like there's something paranormal to it because just of the way it moved, when it moved backwards into the darkness of the woods with dead silence, there wasn't footsteps,

there wasn't breaking of branches, there wasn't smells there, it just moved away from me with such fluidity into the darkness. I feel like there's a paranormal, aspect to it that's not of this earth, not of the what we live in. But there's definitely an animal part to it, I feel like, because of the skin color, the way it looked, the hair. And I also sent you some pictures of some footprints because that one that with the red eyes that moved

backwards, I went back there. The very, like as soon as it got daylight out, I went back up there and there was footprints and I took pictures of them by themselves and with my size 11s next to it. So I feel like it's animal, paranormal, but human, not at all. I don't, that's just my opinion. I don't think it's an animal human hybrid or a lost link of people. I believe that it's animal and paranormal is what I think. That's my personal opinion. Yeah, and you may not be too far off, man. Let's hope for both of our stakes you're completely wrong. You know, keep me up to date.

It sounds like this definitely isn't going to be the end of it. And send me the audio. I'll see if I can't clean it up and amplify it for you. But definitely, I mean, you have my cell phone. Let me know if anything else happens, will you? Absolutely for sure. I'm sure it will. It's been every week for the last five weeks.

So I'm sure that's not the end of it. Yeah, it doesn't sound like it. I really appreciate you coming on, Drew. Really enjoyed chatting with you, man. Be safe and stay in touch. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. I appreciate you, by the way,

having given people a platform to tell their experiences and their stories because, you know, I, I started listening to your stuff a few years ago post-COVID and hadn't, other than the 2009 incident with the girl in the house, hadn't had anything too crazy in the woods. But this is like open my eyes to a whole new, whole new side of the world I didn't know existed. And I appreciate you for having a place for people to tell their stories and when people can talk about it and not. I haven't told, I've told a handful of my closest friends because I don't want people think I'm crazy. Thanks for the kind of words, man. I really appreciate it.

And thank you again for coming on. And that's it for tonight, everyone. Remember, if you've had an encounter, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at saskatchch Chronicles.com. And if you had a chance to check out saskwarch chronicles.com, you can become a member and get additional shows. Until next time, everyone.