Sasquatch Chronicles - SC EP:150 A Police Officer's Encounter

Episode Date: September 27, 2015

"I am a police officer and I had an encounter (an aggressive one ) as an 11 year old in 1994 inside the border of the smokey mountain national park. I was on a camping trip with my family and a group of friends consisting of 5 other boys and my younger sister and brother. We were hiking a trail (a rather remote difficult one as I recall) I was temporarily separated from the group to tie my shoes and as they rounded a bend in the trail I looked to my right (down hill) and observed what in my mind at the time was a HUGE gorilla standing only about 50 ft from me . When it observed me observing it it immediately bounded up hill and onto the trail ahead of me cutting me off. I cannot describe how terrified I was.In an attempt to get away my instinct and I don't really know why was to go uphill and around to where I could yell down at my friends. I felt like if I stayed were I was I'd be killed! So began about a 3 hour ordeal in which I effectively was lost. People began to search for me. The whole time I walked along a ridge line above the trail occasionally hiding from this thing. The entire time it shadowed me. When I would stop it would stop . I did not have a "visual" of it most of the time and only actually saw it from the shoulders up 1 time after my initial sighting. I feel like it was attempting to "herd" me away from safety. I was finally able to walk back onto the trail after 3 hours but only after I heard it farther and farther away and above me. It was raining by this time and I was a total mess completely terrified and exhausted." If you have had an encounter email me [e-mail]

Five, five, four, four, three, three, two, one. One. When I had come down this hill, I had seen this creature cross the road. They would have ripped my locked door from my truck, extracted me from my vehicle, and there wouldn't have a damn thing I could have done about it. This thing I got to notice in its eyes. His eyes was real, real evil, real sinister looking.

You know, the look it was given me. What was here putting? See you. Get somebody out. It's just about six. Yes, I'm looking right at him. Sasquatch Chronicle, a place where people share their accounts. Let's start the show. Welcome to the show, everyone. Thanks for being here tonight. Crazy, crazy week. It's been a real busy week, and I hope you've been hanging out with me on Sasquatch Chronicles.com. A lot of cool shows this last week. I know on Wednesday I talked to Jim Atkins, and I want to thank Jim again for coming on the show. He's a retired deputy

sheriff from Pike County, Georgia. And he talked about this property he always got called out to, and the old man would say that these creatures would tap on his windows, growl at him and his wife through the windows. One of them actually punched the home, and Jim said it looked like a giant had punched this old man's home. A lot of different things going on around this property. He talked about his dogs being killed. He talked about it mimicking him calling for his dogs. And what's interesting about this particular encounter is Jim really wasn't a believer in Sasquatch. You know, he thought if maybe a half a percent of chance this thing was real, it lived out in the Pacific Northwest, not in Pike County, Georgia. And it was really, really fascinating to talk with him and get some insight

on what was going on and around this property during that time. What's fascinating is Jim actually walked away with a cast, and he made a cast from right next to this old man's property, put it in his closet, just kind of hung on to it for a couple of years. And then eventually, you know, as Jim tells the story, eventually he sent it off to Grover Krantz, then sent it off to Meldrum, and then even Jimmy Chilkut took a look at it.

The fingerprint forensic expert looked at it and said, hey, this is a non-human primate foot. And so it was really, really fascinating to talk with him. I hope he had a chance to check it out. That was on Wednesday night. I know on Friday night, I talked to two witnesses that had very strange encounters. It's been a busy week. It's been a great week.

And I hope you've enjoyed this last week as much as I have. Tonight's going to be an interesting night. I'm going to be bringing Scott on here shortly. and Scott had a, Scott's actually a police officer, but he had a very terrifying encounter when he was 11 years old. These creatures were, he had gotten, well, I'll let Scott tell the story. It's going to be a scary night. I can tell you that much. It's going to be a fascinating night.

It's going to be a scary night. He had gotten separated from a group. They were out hiking, and this creature basically started hurting him away from the group, and the intentions weren't good. So look for that here in a moment. If you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. And again, if you get a chance to check out the website. There's additional shows throughout the week.

I try and keep the blog going. And so if you get a chance, please visit Sasquatch Chronicles.com. And I want to welcome Scott to the show. Scott's a police officer out there in Virginia. and he had a pretty interesting encounter. Well, I don't want to even say interesting, more of a scary encounter. But Scott, welcome to the show, and thank you for being here. Hey, thanks for having me.

And if you would, now, your encounter happened when you were 11 years old, correct? It did. In August 1994. And where did the encounter take place? It was, you know, it was so long ago. I don't remember the exact location, but it was in the Great Smoky Mountain National Park. we used to go there every weekend camping in the summertime. And it was on a trail, if anybody's familiar with the area,

maybe between Mount Lacanct and like the North Carolina border. It's somewhere in that area within a, like, it's maybe a lot of like a 15-mile radius, 20-mile radius in there. Like I said, I can't remember the exact trail. A lot of sightings in that area, for sure. Sure. If you would, tell us what you were doing and then just kind of walk us right into the encounter. Tell us what you saw and tell us what you experienced. Yeah, absolutely. Well, like I said, my family and I used to go camping almost every weekend.

A lot of those times, I was living in Knoxville, Tennessee at the time, how far? A lot of those times we were able to bring friends along. In this particular weekend, it was my mother and my stepfather and my two younger siblings, my sister and my brother and we had five friends with us that were all boys under the age of 12, I'd say, between like eight years old and 12 years old. This was the second day of our trip. My parents used to take us out on trails a lot. We were really good on trails. They kind of trusted us. This day we, it was a, start off as a pretty nice sunny day. About 10 in the morning, we hiked up this trail. I would say, it was a two or three mile trail, and it was, you know,

It wasn't like, you know, the paved, easy walking path. I mean, it was a good height, you know, dirt trail up the side of a mountain. When we got to the top of trail, I remember that we ate some lunch, and then we started to head back. My parents, my mother and a stepfather, were ahead of us a good distance. They started off about 10 or 15 minutes in front of us, and, you know, they told us kids, you know, be safe. when we get the bottom of the trail.

So we started walking down the trail, maybe, I'd say about a half a mile. And, you know, we're all kids, like I said, I was 11 years old, a few months from me in 12. And so we were all making a bunch of noise, you know, what kids do. And I'd say we're about a quarter miles down the trail, and it kind of, it bottomed out a little bit before the elevation decreased again. And because of that, it kind of wound around this ridge line. and I would say the trail is probably, I don't know, five or six hundred feet below the trail line. I'm just trying to give you a visual here.

And there was a bend in the trail with the downhill side to our right, the central side to our left. I had been having problems with the shoe lace on my hiking boots. They were really worn out, and they kept coming untied. And so really it was just as simple. I bent down to tie them, and I was the last in line, and the group of, you know, seven other kids walked around the bend in the trail. I remember there was like some rocky outcroppings, you know, in that particular bend.

I guess that's why the trail went around it. And so I spent maybe two or three minutes. I mean, no big deal. I would catch up with them. They were only two or three minutes ahead of me. I tied my shoe and I stood up. When I stood up, I caught a glimpse of really large black object. down the hill, maybe about 50 feet in front of me, and about 16 or 17 feet an elevation below me.

You know, I'd seen plenty of bears in the Smoky Mountains because, like I said, you know, camping all the time. And that was my first spot. I bet it was a bear or it just looked out of place because, you know, this is summertime in the smoky's everything's green. So, you know, giant black blob, that's what you immediately think. And my eyes kind of adjusted to the site, and I noticed this thing was really, really, really, really still, and it was really, really massive. I mean, that's the only way I can describe is just massive. Like I said, it was about 50 feet away from me.

And I remember my first thought being that is a huge gorilla because you could immediately tell, I mean, I could immediately tell it wasn't a bear because the black bears are not that large. I mean, this was four times a sight of the black bear, you know, to me, it's an 11-year-old. And it had a face. It had a face that was, I mean,

I mean, like I said, I described it as a gorilla, kind of like a gorilla, but kind of like a man. I remember being so incredibly shocked by it. I think I maybe tried to scream, but instead just took a deep breath. And it was staring right at me, and I started to back up the trail a little bit. When I began to move, and this is all taking place within 20 seconds, when I began to move, it turned towards the guptill and found it in

maybe two or three steps and oddly pretty quietly on through the trail and in front of me on the trail and stood there like a brick wall I you know I get a little

functional about it now thinking about it because just remembering how terrified I was and this is forever ago but um when it came up on the trail, it based me, and it was right about where the trail bent around where you couldn't see, couldn't see the rest of the trails, you know, and I backed up a little more. So this time, I'm probably a good 20 feet further back, so about 70 feet away, and it went down on all fours and kind of like curled it.

I could tell it was like curling its upper lip. Like if you see, if you watch footage of like, like, eights in a zoo, they kind of make the funny eight faces. It kind of did that and as it went down on all fours. And, but it didn't growl at me. It made a, almost like a, made like a monkey noise, you know. It kind of strive it, but a little more breathy. It was kind of, would you like me to kind of, kind of, kind of.

demonstrate. Yeah, go ahead. Kind of like a, like a, who, who, kind of like a bellowy, low-toned, you know,

it wasn't particularly loud. When it stood there kind of like a fence of lineman in a, when it made the noise, that's when I'm pretty sure in my head as an 11-year-old and come after me. It obviously wasn't letting me down the trail. When I started a move, it blocked the trail. You know, I kind of knew the layout of this trail,

and there was only one ridge line above me, and I didn't want to run down because there was a stream, and I didn't want to cross the water, because even though it was off the lost side of them, I just turned my head, and I ran uphill. I ran probably two or three minutes. You know, I mean, it's a pretty steep angle, 35, 45 degrees at times.

I looked back onto the trail, and I didn't see it anymore. and so there's a lot of thick underbrush as the hill goes up and so I kind of and as I did I don't know if you've seen um I don't know if you've seen you know like video of like guerrillas in the wild um they kind of like sit down and like thick brush and they'll pull leaves off off of trees yeah you know but they're really really strong so I mean they grab they'll grab a lemon it in its wits back and forth it, I couldn't see it at this point, but it was following me up the hill. And it was staying about, about 40 to 50 feet away from me and always just a little bit downhill.

And every time I would stop, it would stop. And so the first time I stopped, I saw the brush move like you would see a gorilla grab a branch and thrash it back and forth. Like it wanted me to know that it was there maybe, or maybe it was trying to, clear the brush in front of it so it could get at me. So when it would make this noise, I would run farther up. And I would try, I couldn't run back up the hill because there was hardly anybody on this trail. I knew there was nobody behind our group. And that's the other thing.

It was pretty sparse, you know, for being August. This trail didn't really have many people on it. And I was just terrified. I mean, I guess, you know, I had a lot of outdoor experience. woods, I was a, any fear of the woods I had was completely overpowered by how terrified it was of this thing that I had just, that I just seen began to kind of run down the hill a little bit and through the brush. And it was almost like it was trying to stay out of my sight, but it was pacing me in front of me. Like, I kind of got the feeling like it was trying to hurt me.

It never charged at me any closer. If it came any closer to me, it would move steadily closer. It wasn't like a big bounding motion like at first. So this continued, and I probably made it within 20 or 30 feet to the top of this ridgeline, and then I wasn't going to go over the mountain. I didn't know it was there, but I or at least the view was the same as it was down. I remember shivering the entire time. And this initial contact lasted maybe 40 minutes or so.

The strange thing is I don't remember screaming for help. I think it was one of the only times of my life that I was actually too afraid to scream or to yell out. I was pretty much singularly focused. I mean, even when I was, I remember running, I say running, But, I mean, it was so thick, it was, you know, hard to run, moving as fast as I could, I guess. It was hard to focus on anything else but where it was. And every time, like I said, I would stop occasionally because I was tired or I wanted to listen to where it was.

And every time I did, I would stop. And then a few seconds later, I would hear the brush settle. It maintains 40, 50 feet away from me and slowly downhill, and it's slightly downhill. and in front of me the entire time. I did this for about 40 minutes, moving as fast as I can. Like I said, in 40 minutes, I probably only covered three, 400 yards. I mean, that's just a guess it's estimation. You know, like I said, I was 11 years old.

Could have been shorter than that. The only other time I saw was probably 40, 25 minutes after I initially saw it. I mean, like I said, I heard it the whole time, and I could see its location from where the brush was moving, or where it would pull, it would, occasionally when I would stop, it would, like, pull, limbs off of trees or shake brush, kind of like letting me almost be like a physical barrier. Like I said before, it was like I was being hurted. Yeah, it seems like it was almost kind of tormenting you. I mean, God, you're trying to get away from it, and it's following you, but it's not,

it's keeping a distance from you, but at the same time, it's kind of torres, it's playing with you. Yeah, it's playing with, you know, probably the most sinister playtime ever. Yeah, like a cat and a mouse is what it sounds like. Right. I mean, and honestly, even to the day, I probably told anybody. I mean, I told my wife the story. But, I mean, it gives me shivers speaking about it now, actually. And it's something that I've always kept really close to the best.

But I say about the only other time I visually was probably about 45 minutes into this ordeal. I stopped. I remember there was a log that was laid down. It was obviously from a deadfall. It was like a deadfall. And I kind of sat on top of this log. I looked down the hill, and at this time it was always about 40 or 50 feet away from me. But I saw it from, I guess, the chest is a large air, probably from, like, the nipples up, I would guess.

It didn't have any breasts. And when I stopped on this log, And I saw it from that height up. It wasn't making a grimacing face at me. It wasn't making, it wasn't showing its teeth. I never saw it. Flip its lip again. It just, we just kind of had a staring contest.

And that second visual sighting was maybe two or three minutes. And I think, I'm pretty sure it was squatting down or kneeling maybe when I saw it. at that time because I remember getting up and kind of like looking around and I could see the, but let me just state that like I said, 11 years old, I'm here streaming down my face this entire time. And the reason I say, I think it was kneeling, it's because of the little glimpse of, you know, the trail that was at this point pretty far, pretty distant from me. And I began to like walk kind of right below the ridge line again.

You know, following where I knew the trail was below me, and I saw it rise up, and it got a lot bigger. So I think it was kneeling. Another 20 minutes, I mean, I could just hear crashing right below me, same distance. You know, small walks being thrown in front of me to me down this hill, but throwing sticks in front of where I was walking. And they were landing maybe 10 or 15 feet. but I just kind of, you know, it never, it didn't really feel like he was actually trying to assault me or attack me the whole time, but it was definitely the entire thing was really aggressive. And so, you know, after a while, I kind of, I would, I was stopping more often because I was, like I said, I was, I was really tired.

And by about, after about an hour and a half, two hours of walking, it started to rain. I remember that, and it was a really cold rain, so it started to get soaked. And then I don't know, I guess maybe it affected my perception with the noise, with the rain falling, but I kind of, I still heard it crashing through the brush when I would move. Only when I would, I heard it crashing through the brush and stopped, but it seemed to get a little bit farther away from me. And then it kind of seemed to be getting behind me. And so there came a point,

And I'm guesstimating here. I would say probably about two and a half to three hours into this where I saw the trail. I was very high above it. And I just decided that, you know, like I said, I was exhausted and just crying. It kind of was like at the point of like giving up, you know, thinking I was going to get lost in the woods. Or there was going to be another one of these sticks fly to the air randomly and hit me in the head that I just kind of made a beeline straight down the hill. and it seemed to kind of honestly just kind of fade out, kind of Peter out where he was more distant. I stopped having things thrown at me, and I could finally eventually saw the little dirt parking lot at the trailhead.

And at that point, I really wasn't hearing anything. It's probably the last 15 minutes, and I was yelling and screaming and saying, hey, I'm up here, I'm up here, and I walked down the trail. And that's when I, you know, my parents had realized I was missing at that point. I mean, you know, within, you know, 30 minutes of the rest of the group. You know, they told them I wasn't with them. They don't know where I went. They didn't see me leave. And honestly, what, my parents were, you know, parma language, they were pissed off at me for being gone.

But I think they, I think my mother used some expletives to the effect of where, you know, the F were you. But when she saw me, I mean, I'm like, I'm like covered. I have like scratches, you know, sort of thorns and, you know, all the brush that I was running through. I was soaked to the bone. And I was crying still and shivering. And they were, I do remember they're out there with park rangers.

And what I seem to recall is a law enforcement officer of some kind. I know, you know, they had a gun belt and, you know, duty gear and had a, you know, It looked like a police car. I couldn't tell you what the agency just operate inside that National Park or not. But, you know, ask me what happened? I, you know, what do I tell them? I'm thinking I'm going to get in trouble because they think I'm going to get it in trouble because they think I just wandered off. And I do remember telling them, I just want to get out of here.

I'll tell you later. I just want to get out of here. But I do remember, you know, I confirmed this with my mom on the phone recently. she said that and I saw a bear come to the trail and I told him that I ran back up the trail and when I did I lost side of the trail and it just took me a while to

get back. I know the other kids in my group were kind of actually remember getting a laughed at by a friend of mine by the name of Corey. I'm not in touch with him anymore but you know basically little kid stuff called me a wolf and everything just a little bear. Why don't you yell for us? We didn't know where he were

kind of thing and I seemed to also recall when I gave my little bear story to my folks and having the ranger and the law enforcement officer there, because they had hiked, you know, up this trail or it began to at least look for me and kind of like set up. I guess in the initial stages of what would be a search if you were lost in the hills. I do remember the park ranger saying, well, that doesn't make sense that a bear would have just chased him off or if it was an aggressive, like something the effect of, if it was an aggressive bear that, like, chased him, it would have attacked him. It would have got him.

Right, right. And you'd say that didn't really make sense. Now, I think maybe my parents blew that off. They don't really, you know, got wildlife experts. I mean, we spent a lot of time in the woods, but they, you know, they had never encountered a bear. What did they know? And I think it was the last day of our trip, it was just the weekend thing. I think they just kind of, you know, just decided to wrap it up and the weather it turned bad. I do remember that we got out of there.

We went back to our campsite, which was in a regular established campground at the time. And we left. We went back to Knoxville. And, but I, it actually, that, this incident began a string of probably about three years where I had extreme anxiety. society issues.

They, pre-training and, you know, early team probably to all of 14 and 15 years old. And it really all started after that. I do know that, you know, I absolutely refused to go into the woods or to go camping anymore.

And because I wholeheartedly stuck to my bear story. I mean, I got a lot of flat from family members. I mean, my brother and my sister would, you know, poke fun of me like little kids do. They were younger than me. Like, oh, you afraid of the bear? Yeah, I think a lot of people listening to this might go, well, why did you say bear? But, you know, until you're in someone's shoes, you know, what are you supposed to say?

You ran into a half-man, half-garilla, and it chased you for the last two and a half hours. You know, even most adults wouldn't know what to say in a situation like that. Yeah, absolutely. And you have to understand, I mean, I'd have to, I guess you'd have to know my family to understand. there were a bunch of very analytical people, you know, very educated, you know, into the scientific method. I mean, my stepfather, great guy, I love him, but, you know, he's, you know, any kind of, if, if it's a conspiracy theory, but just as an example, you know, any sort of conspiracy beyond, like, an official line or, like, established scientific doctrine, he would just miss outright. And so if I would have said, hey, look, I was chased up a head, you know, speaking as I don't know, year old again by a giant gorilla.

Well, I mean, I think I might have been gotten in trouble for that. Yeah, they would have said you were lying. Right. And being so completely exhausted. And, I mean, you know, I don't think my mom ever, I think she bought the bear story, but I don't think she understood why I was so affected by it. I mean, when I say, you know, obviously it's been so long, I'm a little calm or speaking about it now, but, I mean, I can't tell you nothing.

I mean, just shivering, crying, and that lasted all day, all day. I mean, I don't think I told the story to another person for really a long time. I mean, I think maybe the first person I told about it was a friend of mine in college that actually had grown up with, you know, grew up with in high school. I think I maybe have maybe told my buddy a little bit of the story, but really the first person I told the complete story to was my wife. And then I only told her about it after we were already engaged, so, you know, over a year and a half into our relationship. So, you know, and I even call it a little bit of a flack from her.

You know, I guess she's on board now. But, I mean, you know, it's not, it's not something you go on, you know, screaming about, especially because, you know, I had a very, I mean, I ended up, I joined the military, you know, and, you know, being a law enforcement officer, I also don't want to go around and, you know, tell all my, my police officer friends that, like, hey,

you know, I saw it to ask much when I was 11 years old. And I think I'm a little question my judgment. And really, you know, fault of their own, because, you know, 90% of everybody thinks this is, you know, nonsense or people are making these things, up. But, you know, I wanted to tell you this story after seeing your podcast and just, you know, like how genuinely you seemed about this as well as, you know, when you talk about like, you know, people wanting to say these things are flu-playing interdimensional beings. They're absolutely not.

And they're a dangerous wild animal. That's completely in the flesh, physical thing. They don't, you know, the giant, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, the satchwatch that chased me up the hill, didn't shift a mention did throw sticks at me, you know? Right. Right. You didn't use any superpowers. It was storing rocks and sticks at you the whole time.

Right. Exactly. It didn't ask me to go off to the mothership with it, you know. and I really like the how you you you you frame your podcast as far as like you know you want to talk to science here and you know things that are for the only reason I decided to tell this story to you now you know no and I'm really glad that you did and I really appreciate you coming on and telling it you know I've actually have a lot of cops that listen to the show believe it or not I've gotten a lot of different law enforcement that actually listens to the show you know a lot of guys have sent me emails saying, hey, well, I'm in my patrol car. You know, I'll be listening to the show. Right. You know, it's very, the encounter that you had was very fascinating.

I wanted to ask you, would you say the closest you were to the creature was about 70 feet? When he, and I say he, because I didn't see any breath. So, I mean, I first bounded up onto the trail I was at. That was 50 feet, 40 to 50 feet. Yeah, and that's what I mean when he had a good luck at him. I'm sure he was closer to you at times. but can you kind of describe what you saw for the audience? You know, a lot of people haven't seen a Sasquatch.

A lot of people out there, you know, the first comment they'll always make is, I really want to see one of these things. And my comment to them has always, be careful what you wish for. But can you describe what you saw for the audience? Yeah, absolutely. First of all, to those people, you absolutely do not. It will, if you're an outdoor lover, it will keep you out of the woods for years. I guess best way to kind of let people wrap their heads around it to give the closest description.

It was, if you've seen the Patterson film, it was fat, minus breath, and it seemed, it was, it was slimmer. It was jacked up like a bodybuilder, really. I mean, huge shoulders, giant traps. People, I've heard people say they don't, you know, it looks like they have almost no neck. I saw a neck. As I recall, like it says a long time ago, as I recall, it didn't seem to be abnormally short, but what made it look like, I guess you would say

made it look like it didn't have a neck because it had gigantic trapezoid muscles that came up, I mean, from the outside of its shoulders, skull, I guess, in the back. it had it didn't it didn't have a gorilla nose it had more of a

it was like a flat it was a flat wide nose but I guess it the nostrils weren't as pronounced you understand what I mean like if you see a gorilla the nostrils kind of

kind of flare up and out but it wasn't it wasn't bad it was that type of nose but the nostrils were less pronounced I didn't notice

a lot You know, the skin of a face didn't have hair on it. And that's the other thing. It didn't look like fur to me. Like if you see a bear, like a black bear in the woods, that's fur. You automatically, you know, if you know anything about wild animals, you know what fur looks like. You know, it seems more groomed and uniform and, you know, have like kind of a, almost a shine to it. It looked, I guess what I'm saying is it looked more like hair.

And I do remember that it had leaves, like, dead leaves kind of, like, stuck on it, like, as if it had been, like, rolling around, right, in the dirt, maybe. But it was, it was black, and the skin on the face was, like, a really dark gray too black. And I do remember its eyes. I remember its eyes being pronounced only because they were set back in its head. Like they weren't, yeah, they weren't like super large eyeballs in and of themselves, but they were set back. So it was very, it was very pronounced.

And the biggest thing I remember about it, besides being absolutely huge. And like I said, I'm 6'3 now. And even at 11, 12 years old, I was, you know, about 5 feet tall. like I said, I probably came up to only maybe it's tech muscles. And that's, I'm guessing that because of the distance I was away from that, I guess, you know, and it's a long time ago that's hard to judge perfect distance. But I mean, I'm guessing eight to eight and a half feet tall, about eight feet tall. Can you talk about how it was proportioned?

Was it proportioned like a person or from what you remember or if you remember exactly how it was proportioned? Like the arms and the legs and. Sure. Yeah, if you just looked at its torso, it was built like a bodybuilder, but looking at it, it was like its legs, its legs were disproportionately small for its size, and its arms were disproportionately large, if that makes sense. So longer, ganglier arms, shorter stubby legs than what you would think that it, It should be. It kind of, I mean, like I said, when I say it was built like a bodybuilder, and I describe it being a center than what you see on the Patterson.

I told me, you're talking, you know, it's from its shoulders. It came to its waist. It came down kind of almost in a V. Like, not that it was super skinny or emaciated, but it was just built. It had muscle. I mean, it was, you know. Like it had been doing too much steroids in its life, you know? Right.

Yeah, like you take the biggest NFL player. you could find and cross them with, you know, a bigger version of shack, I guess. Yeah, and they're kind of proportioned like a cartoon. I guess that's not a great example, but, you know, I guess there's a famous footage of a gorilla that's up walking around on two legs, and as it's up walking around on two legs, it looks like it has, from about the knee down, these short little stubby shins and these extra long arms, you know, like everyone's seen a gorilla. But when you see them up walking

around on two legs, I remember in my own encounter, it was like, yeah, it's kind of like that. I mean, that's kind of how it's proportioned. I mean, and I could see in your mind, being 11 years old, going, why is there a gorilla out here and why is he giving me a hard time about getting down this trail? Saying that, I will say, you know, before, like

by that age, I had heard of Sasquatch or Bigfoot. Never really had interested me too much, but, I mean, I had heard of it. I mean, it's in the lexicon. You know, we know, you heard about it, but that's, it's funny because when I, when I saw it, I think maybe just because I was, how terrified I was, I didn't, I didn't put the two and two together, you know what I mean? Like, I didn't, my mind, my brain didn't automatically connect like, oh, Bigfoot. It just said, giant gorilla standing in front of me

on trail, you know. It was more of like, especially as a kid, like a very, very, sexual, like, visceral kind of. You know, the biggest thing is just seeing it standing there in the track, and I can see it pretty clear in my head, and you know how memories kind of fade, but this is one of the ones that stays in kind of HD

in your mind. Just thinking, just overwhelming sense that I would be I would be killed. That, and not, you know, obviously not wanting that. And I didn't, I didn't want to

You know, I think honestly, also part of the reason I decided to run this guy, I didn't want to look at it anymore. I mean, if that makes sense, you know, I just did not want to look at this thing anymore. When you put your head under the sheet, you know, kind of like, as a kid, if you, you know, think there's a monster in your closet and you put the sheet over your head kind of thing. It wasn't a sheet big enough, kind of, so I just ran. No, and that does make sense. And a couple of things about your encounter that really intrigued me. Well, there's a lot of things that come to mind missing 411, people disappearing in the 411. forest.

It was the first thing that pops in my mind. But, you know, I had this guy on the show, and I told you this before, Scott, and they were out on dirt bikes, and they were going down a trail. And I wish I could remember where it was, but they were going down a trail, and he was the last one in line, and his bike broke down. And if you've ever been on a dirt bike, you really can't hear the guy behind you. So they all keep riding forward, and the guy gets left behind. Well, he gets off his bike and starts walking it, and this creature, you know, and this creature,

comes out from the brush and stands in the trail and blocks him from from leaving and then it flip it does a lip flip it shows its teeth and it's kind of like what you and i were talking before you know with i had a primatologist one time on the show and he said that's why you don't smile at non-human primates because it's an aggressive you know they're showing your teeth is not a good thing it's an aggressive you're about to ready to get it handed to you at that point and so but he describes almost word for word what you're describing this creature did. And it makes me think going back to your encounter, how long had this thing been watching you guys?

You fall behind to tie your shoes, and now it's a perfect opportunity to snag you. Yeah, I mean, absolutely. You would think, I mean, looking back on it, do I think it was just randomly standing next to the trail? No, of course not. I mean, I was with eight kids under 12 years old. we were making jokes that we were being as loud as obnoxious as we could possibly be because we didn't have to have any, you know, civility in front of the grownups, right?

So, I mean, laughing and screaming and hollering, you know, to be a wood in the middle of the street, I mean, to be honest, I remember us being so loud. I mean, it could have been, you know, I mean, it was massive. It could have been stomping through the woods next to us, and we probably wouldn't have heard it. I mean, that group of kids almost probably as loud as a dirt bike. So, I mean, do I think it could have been... And, you know, at the end of this... The trail, you know, the destination, there was a small water fell, fall, and there's a water source that came down.

So, I mean, good reason to be in the area, I guess, if you're, you know, an extraordinarily large primate. I'm sure you drink a lot of water. So, you know... What was your impression of what it was doing? What was your impression? And then, and then having time to reflect on it, looking back, what do you think its intention was with you? Looking back on it is probably the best way I can describe it because when this, when this happened to me,

I was probably, you know, I really wasn't thinking in that terms of, you know, like I said, I was, and, you know, I guess a survival and thinking back on it, like I said before, I think maybe it was, it obviously intentionally separated me and it hurted me. and it hurted me away from this group. I do think that at any time, and you know, you reference like the missing 401 books, which I'm sort of familiar with, that could have grabbed me.

I mean, it was like, you know, it was the equivalent of being in an empty parking garage in the middle of the night and being robbed. There's nobody around to save you, you know? So I think if it wanted to grab me, maybe it was trying to get me to a place where it could grab me. I think possibly the stick throwing, the small log throwing after, like I said, after about an hour or so,

I think maybe that was, maybe it was confused as to why I was running away from it. The ability to run away from it. Like I said, it could have caught me. Maybe I confused it with just how freaked out and fast I was. I mean, I really don't know. It's hard to, I mean, it's hard to assign intent to something like that. You know what I mean? When so many other outcomes could have happened, it could have grabbed me.

I could have been lost in the woods, and it could have gone away on its own. Then I could have just been a kid lost in the woods. Getting down on all fours, when it came down on all fours, it was scarier when it was on all four than it was when it was standing up. And that's when, you know, and when it made the, the, whoo-woof, that's when I felt, you know, malevolent intent. So I don't, whatever it's intent specifically was, in general, it was bad. Does that kind of answer the question?

Yeah, that does. That's the best I can kind of describe it because, you know, in retrospect, really. Yeah, and that's okay too. I mean, and it's, you know, sometimes unless you're in those situations, it's hard to, that's why I asked you the question, because it's hard to really get a perspective on what it's intention was. I tend to agree with you. I don't think the intention was good. No. When it dropped all fours, do you remember how it dropped all fours? Straight down. I don't know. If you've ever seen like an extreme workout video, a guy goes from,

we used to do this in the military, go from a standing position and drop straight down to do a push-up. It's almost like you fall at the speed of gravity. It's not really controlled. Just silted forward and collapsed straight down, and it was on its hands almost immediately. Yeah, it's kind of weird how they do that, isn't it? I mean, it happens, like, within a split second, they're down. Yeah, and it kind of looked like if you seen, like, photos of like hyenas. In the wild, you know how they kind of have, like, a slope back that comes down? I think because his arms would really, thinking about it,

just to kind of have that hyena look when it was down, because, you know, its rear end was lower than because its arms were so long. And it almost felt like when it went down, went down on all four that his arms looked even bigger. Kind of, yeah, kind of like you're going to get a running start, you know? Or just to say maybe I'm, yeah, like he was going to charge me. I think at the time I really went through my head was not that he was going to come, look, hey, buddy, I'm a brick wall.

You're not coming past here. Like, what are you going to do here kind of thing? Yeah, and that's the other thing, too, with these things that I think is disturbing. And I don't think a lot of people, it doesn't, maybe doesn't click with them that haven't had an encounter, is these things aren't stupid. You almost feel like it's a game of chess. You know, in that situation that you're in, it's a game of chess. I'm down now on all fours. I'm flipping my lip back, looking at you, what are you going to do?

Now it's your turn to make a move. And you better be the right move, otherwise we're going to tangle. What is this happening? you know, after years went by and I was in college, I have spent a lot more time in the woods. But, you know, if a wild animal is going to get you, there's not like a thought process in that wild animal particularly. You know, so it's saying if you see a bear

that's going to attack you in the woods, my guess is it's just going to come after you. You know, it takes for this thing to do what it did and do, get down on all fours, you know, curl a flip up and, you know, keep this equididivist. I mean, that obviously requires thought of, you know, some level beyond just your average, you know, cougar, bear, you know, whatever. I mean, there's obviously a higher thought process than your average wild animal,

which, I mean, that gives me the children thinking about that because it's, you know, the intent can be confusing, right? if you don't know if it's just playing with you or it doesn't want to actually kill me or hurt me away and do, you know, God knows what. Yeah, and that's why, you know, I used to be a lot harder on what I called flute players. I've lightened up a lot on that. But I always felt like they were doing a disservice to people because at the end of the day, these things are unpredictable, dangerous, and wild.

And to throw out a blanket statement that you can go out there and, you know, give a muffin, and play the flute form, it's just not reality. It's not the case with these things. These things generally don't want anything to do with you. And if they do want something to do with you, it's not a good situation to be in because it's not going to be a handshake and a hug and let's sing kumbaya.

It's just not reality with these things. They're the top of the food chain, top of the predators out there. You know, it's the same with a kougar. You're not going to go walk up to a kugur and try and pet it on the head and feed it in an apple. It'll rip your head off. off.

Yeah, of course not. And, you know, even beyond the flute players out there is guys like, and, you know, I've seen just as an example, episodes of, you know, finding big footage, I guess, done by the founder of the BFRO, that's fine and great. I mean, I realize it's reality television, a lot of it's probably just, you know, the fodder for television. But even to that extent, to try to, even if you're not a flu player, I don't. I'm telling people, even if you're not a flute player, you just think, you know, I'll, yes, it's a wild animal, but I'm going to leave it muffins, and it's not going to hurt me if I encounter it in the middle of the woods at night, whether there's a camera around or not.

I think you're crazy. I mean, that's obviously coming from my own personal with this, but that is equally almost as crazy to me to, you know, want to make friends or even if you're going to sit in the middle of the woods, And, you know, go, it's fine, more power to you. You know, I've thought about doing it recently, but be armed. Be armed. Same thing as if you were trying to lure a cougar in. You're not going to, like you said, you're not going to want a lure a cougar in without having, you know, a firearm that could take it down. You just don't know what it's going to do. Yeah, they're unpredictable, very, very unpredictable.

And, you know, it's like I've said before on the show in the past, you know, sometimes you might come across these things. they might get up and walk away, and sometimes they might not. And if they don't, you're in trouble because they're not there to make friends with you. Let me ask you, did you ever ask, did you ever go back to your mom and say, hey, mom, you know what? I didn't actually see a bear that day. Here's kind of what really happened. No, I have, my little brother about it now that we were adults and maybe that was just a few years ago. And, you know, we have a pretty close relationship.

It kind of gave me, you know, the nod, like, you're a pretty analytical dude, too. but, you know, I trust him, and he seemed to be, you know, pretty okay with it. And, you know, he remembers my demeanor after this. And he remembers this, you know, when this happened, he was probably eight or nine years old. I think he was eight when this happened. But, no, I've never told my mom. As a matter of fact, when I spoke to my mom when I was considering, you know, contact me about this, to ask her, try to get more specifics of, like,

to narrow down the area that we were at and, you know, ask her what she remembers talking to the, um, uh, the, the, the park rangers about when there was, you know, realized that I was missing. And she, you know, she actually asked me, you know, why I was bringing it up. And I just told her it was just out of curiosity. And then I think moved on to, to something else. I just, uh, it's not, it's not even that I don't feel comfortable telling my mom. I just don't know, she's, uh, it's just not in a way necessary, you know. I don't want to scare her. I don't want her to, you know, I think she might be a little bit like, hey, why don't you tell me this at the time, you know? She, uh, but no, we've never, never really talked about them. We've talked about me,

occasionally, I think over the years, like, you know, that incident, but not the specifics of, you know, what actually happened, really. And my sister, no, as well. So, I mean, I think beyond you have really really shared the story with, you know, just a handful of people, literally, I could probably count them on one hand. So. Yeah, it's, you know, this is a very, very fascinating topic. I go back to, and I send it over to you, Scott. And if you get a, if you get a free chance, you know, in the next couple days, check out Wednesday's show when I, when I had the cop on. I mean, it was the same sort of thing.

And his warning was the same warning you're giving, same warning. same warning I gave. You know, he said that particular situation, long story short, they were, these creatures went up and were tormenting this old couple, but they were emaciated. Even Dr. Meldon looked at the tracks and assumed that this thing was emaciated. And what it is, it ate all the dog food. It broke into this guy's barn, ate all the dog food, when all that was gone, then it killed his dogs. and then even the cop by the end of it who didn't believe in Sasquatch at all.

By the end of it, he was convinced these creatures were trying to get the old couple out of the home, and he thought for sure they'd end up being a missing person's case. But I say that to say this, you know, in your situation, and in a lot of people's situations you hear on the show, they're not good encounters.

They're not happy encounters. They're not... Occasionally I'll have people on that, they saw it cross a road or they'll say they saw it from a distance. But people that have had up close and personal encounters like yourself, they're generally not happy memories. No, no, this is these happy memories, honestly. And not just with my childhood, you know, ever since then, you know, I don't remember being as scared in the moment. I mean, I hate to sound like I'm assigning like, you know, some kind of, you know, some kind of, you know, general, like, malevolence to these things, like, across the board, because, like I said,

I'm sure there's different intent, like, we talk about, but definitely there's a high probability of being very dangerous, you know, and you were bringing up the, you know, the missing 401 cases. I mean, I read, I've read through some of them, some of the cases. my wife actually got me the book from the western United States, you know, because she knew I'd probably be interested in less. And, you know, it was just reading a few of those cases. It was just, to me, at least, you know, I could be wrong. I mean, sure some of them are different.

But to me, it just seems that's what it was. I can absolutely attribute that because, and I can almost put myself, obviously I don't know what this people went through, myself in those shoes just because of the thing that happened to me being separated like that. I mean, it's an easy, it's almost like a logical flow in my head that's what some of these things could be. And that's, you know, to be honest, when, you know, I read some of these stories, it almost made me even more, have more of a sense of fear for my past, if that makes sense. like being even more afraid of the thing that happened to me.

You know, because I didn't really, I guess I had that thought in the past about maybe that's what was going on, but really kind of learning about some of those stories, like I said, I haven't gone through, you know, the full range, but, you know, makes me wonder if that's exactly. Yeah, it does make you wonder, especially when you read a lot of these cases. And you and I both know that, you know, people go out, they'll show up missing. I mean, there's accidents that happen. There's other wild animals that can happen. But some of these cases are very, very suspect.

A lot of these cases are very, very suspect. And I tend to agree with you. I think that in a lot of these cases, Sasquatch is to blame. Absolutely. You know, when we were talking, we talked earlier, and I've heard, I've listened to, you know, a lot of your podcast now, not a lot, you know, I'd say five or six so far since I've done. discovered you.

And I've heard the two-year-old boy that went missing in the summertime sometime. I'm not really sure, but it was recently. And a lot of people, you know, thinking that this could be one of those cases. And, you know, I thought, yeah, this is a great missing 401 case. I think I brought up to you. I'll know if a case that I read about that went missing. there was a young man 19 or 20 years old

that went missing and Southern California found no trace of him either he was on a trip with his friends I think he went to college in Tennessee they were camping in southern like on the Southern Colorado northern New Mexico border kind of area and him and another friend went for a run

down kind of a remote road one morning his friend was faster than him and he ended up disappearing off road. And I guess I remember, I know it was in the national news. I think I might have read it on Fox or CNN about them looking for them and they haven't found any trace of them. So I mean, that's two within the past three months. Super bizarre. Yeah, and it's interesting. I just posted up to the blog, the gentleman who went missing in Yosemite, and it's a third one this month.

And what's interesting is they never say how these guys die. And if people think I'm crazy, you go back and read some of these articles, they'll never say how these people die. They'll say, well, they found the remains of this person, but they never say how they die. You know, it's disturbing. It's really, really disturbing. And my heart goes out to any family members out there

that have had people go missing like this, and there's no answers. You know, at the end of the day, there's no answers on what happened to their loved ones, you know what I mean? Right. And, you know, someone in law enforcement, I kind of, I mean, kind of, I mean, I understand. I think that, you know, not explaining how these people died is a bad thing, especially for these families.

I'm not saying that that's a right thing, but can I understand? Like, in law enforcement, once you get past a certain rank, it becomes totally political. You know, it's not, you know, your lieutenant and captains and assistant chiefs and chiefs aren't the same as, you know, your beat officers. I mean, the same, I'm guessing with these agencies that, you know, that find these people dead. I mean, you're not going to, it's counterproductive to what they want. And that is to get people in the parks or, you know, out in the wilderness and they don't

want to, people are easily panicked these days. I want to say, hey, you know, he found this guy who's pulverized to death and had no clothes on. So, I mean, do I, I, I don't advocate, but I understand their. reasoning maybe in those in those cases and that's just speaking as a law enforcement officer and knowing you know how that kind of structure works yeah and i guess i can understand that you know like i was telling you you and i were talking earlier and i was talking about the boggy creek case uh in boggy creek when all of that happened you know there was possees being formed and i was

shocked no no hunters were actually shot during that whole thing uh because they the public wanted blood they wanted to go out and kill this thing and so i guess i I can understand that. Yeah, and it becomes, you know, I'm not really talking about black helicopter conspiracies here. I'm just saying, you know, just in a bureaucracy and, you know, all law enforcement ends up being a bureaucracy, and especially more towards the top. And, you know, it becomes kind of a thing, not to, not like an evil, like, oh, let's cover this up, you know, for, I don't have, like, terrible intent.

They just don't want to publicize it because it doesn't, and it almost doesn't look back. for the agency. You know, if you have to have a spokesperson that's a captain coming out saying, hey, this is a super odd death, you know, there's no captain that I know that wants to go to do that for any agency. You know, so it's better just kind of like let it trail off and die. That and people go missing, you know, also, law enforcement, also people go missing all the time, you know,

urban areas and out in the middle of nowhere. So, I mean, it's easy to, like, like, collectively to lose your memory of those things, you know? It's just another person that's gone. Yeah, and we have a short attention span as a public. Oh, definitely. You know, I can't think enough for coming on. I know you haven't shared this story with hardly anyone,

and I feel honored that you wanted to come on and Scott and share it. I just can't think enough for coming on and sharing it, man. I really do appreciate it very much. Yeah, absolutely. In same view, I really do appreciate it. It's been kind of nice to, it's not a little nerve wracking to get it off my chest. But like I said, you know, after listening to you,

you know, really appreciate the work you've done. And I like the concise, very, like, reasonable manner in which you look, pursue these things. So, you know, I've never really wanted to, I guess, be able to tell of that in a public forum until I really saw your podcast. So, I mean, I appreciate that. It kind of kind of feel a little better now. No, I appreciate it, man.

Thank you very much. Absolutely. Have a good one. Well, I want to thank everyone for joining us tonight. And remember if you've had an encounter, shoot me an email, Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. And if you're not too busy, check out the website, Sasquatch Chronicles.com.

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