Sasquatch Chronicles - SC EP:151 Last Man Standing

Episode Date: October 4, 2015

Tonight I speak with David who had a terrifying encounter with several Sasquatches. The men were in a remote location in Colorado and were out shooting targets when a very large ape-like creature stepped out of the bushes and was growling, screaming and showing its teeth. David describes what the creature looked like and describes the bushes around him exploding with other creatures screaming at them. David took up a defensive position and started firing while his cousin ran back to get the truck. You will not want to miss this one. 

Five, five, four, four, three, three, two, one. One. When I had come down this hill, I had seen this creature cross the road. They would have ripped my locked door from my truck, extracted me from my vehicle, and no one in that damn thing I could have done about it. This thing I got to notice in its eyes. His eyes was real, real evil, real sinister looking.

You know, the look it was given me. See them. Get somebody out here. What's what on now, sir? That son of a bitch is about six foot. Sir? Yes, I'm looking right at him. Saskwatraunicle. A place where people share their encounters.

Let's start the show. Welcome to the show, everyone. Thanks for being here tonight. Hope your week's gone well. Thank you for being here tonight to listen to the show. If you've had an encounter, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at saskwatchwachronicles.com. Along with your contact information, I'd love to

talk with you about your encounter, and I'd love to have you on the show. Tonight's going to be an interesting night. You know, it's one of those, a lot of people who've had encounters go through very tough times. They go through, it's kind of an emotional experience for people, and it does affect people certain ways. Most people who've had encounters, it definitely does affect them. And tonight's no different. You know, I'm going to be having David on here shortly. But I want the audience to imagine for a moment, you're out, I don't know if you've ever gone out, target practicing or, you know, if you've ever used any firearms. But imagine for a moment you go out to do some target shooting and you get surrounded by something that supposedly doesn't

exist. And they're growling, they're throwing things at you. It sounds like something out of a movie. It sounds like something from TV. But this is definitely a reality. People run into these creatures out there. And it's witnesses like David that are willing to come forward and share their encounter. So let's get to it this evening. David, I want to welcome me to the show.

Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your encounter. I know it wasn't the easiest thing in the world to do, but thank you for being here. I appreciate you having me on the show. And if you would, kind of start from the beginning. I know it was you and your cousin. Start from the very beginning.

Tell us what you were out doing. and then just walk us right into the encounter, if you don't mind. Well, me and him, we're going to go out bow hunting, and this was in February. You know, we didn't know too much about hunting out here and ended up being out of season. So we ended up taking the rifles and we're like, you know, let's just go out shooting and knowing me, you know, and everybody that knows me, you know, I'd carry, you know, at least 500 rounds of ammo on me, you know, when I go out shooting, I've already go out for a weekend. going to take advantage of all of it. You know, I'm going to carry, you know, my ammo packs and all my mags with me. You know, I don't mess around.

And he brought his 12 gauge and brought at least a couple hundred rounds. And he didn't bring as much as me, but he had brought quite a bit. We headed up for my property about, I would say, six miles down this old trail. Took it down and we stopped. took out some snowmobiles took him down another trail went down to his clearing about a 20 by 30 clearing and then got out set up camp started up the fire it was oh it was cold it was probably about in the afternoon about 2 30 3 o'clock started up fire got some food in there started shooting and about 5 o'clock rolled around and uh my cousin's shooting

shooting a shotgun at these targets, and I'm sitting there in prone position. I'm shooting an A.R. 15. And all of a sudden, a rock hits him in the back about the size of a matchbox car. He turns around, looks at the ground, looks around, doesn't see anything. He says, hey, are you messing with me? I'm like, what am I messing you with? I'm shooting with you. I'm like, what happened?

And he's like, well, somebody's throwing rock at my back. I'm like, you're kidding me. And I'm like, you know, it's probably, you know, it's probably just through imagination. Well, suddenly, all of a sudden we start smelling something real, like, bad, you know, like garbage. You know, somebody rolled around in garbage and, you know, threw it all over the campsite. It just smelled horrible. And I'm thinking, you know, it's probably a bear. You know, let's go check it out and see what it is.

You know, maybe we can get a couple pictures of a bear or, you know, maybe some animals out there. So we head into the wooded areas, real foresties, pretty cold. and it took us about 20 minutes to get in. Started rolling around 6.30. About that time, it was getting pretty dark. And we both turned on our lights on our guns, started moving in. And all of a sudden we just standing there and still smelling it. And I'm hearing this roaring sound to my left.

And I'm like, what is that? I'm like, you know, mountain line don't sound like that. And he's like, I don't know what it is. You know, so we're looking, we're looking. All of a sudden I take my rifle. like going to stope in about 70 yards down. And there it is. Seven foot.

It looked almost like somebody wearing a gilly suit, with a mopped head. And I'm looking up, going up the feet, and he's sitting in a little bit of a clearing with some trees around him, but you could still see him clear as day. He was a little bit of forest around him, but it wasn't much.

He's kind of standing on a little bit of a slope. I went up as hill. and I look at the face and my eyes just gleamed at it it had the face of like a planet of the apes and nose was all pushed in the eyes were beaten on me

teeth is flashing his teeth and it looked pissed it looked like it was not fucking around excuse my language I'm sorry but I look down at his hands and his hands were twitching.

It looked pissed. It looked like it wanted to fight. And all of a sudden, he turned it on behind us. My cousin turned it down, and he said, I'm hearing it again. It's coming from behind us, and I could hear it too. And he was screaming from behind us. He flashed his light, and he's seeing glimpses of more of these things, just covered in fur.

It looked like they had it showered in days. It was probably about 30 yards away from us, so he starts blasting at him. Now, and being that far, I'm guessing he had to have missed a little bit, seeing that, you know, he was blasting it all directions, freaking out, screaming, like, you know, we need to get out of here. And we switch weapons. He looks at it, and he's like, you know, we definitely need to go out of here. This is not a place that we need to be right now.

And let me ask you, so what was your opinion of Sasquatch, Bigfoot, this whole topic prior to all of this? Well, I didn't believe, you know. You know, when we would go on hunting trips before, you know, we were out shooting or whatever, you know, he'd bring it up around the campfire and be like, oh, you know, you know, ever heard a big foot of this and that? And I'm like, I don't believe in that. You know, there's no such thing. You know, that's actually like the, you know, the tooth fairy or, you know, Santa Claus, you know, it doesn't exist. And that night had changed my life forever when I'd seen that thing's face and seeing its fingers twitching and the muscles and hairs. on it.

Can you describe the face? Can you describe what you actually saw? Well, face looked like, uh, look like, movie planet of the apes, except, uh, the teeth.

Teeth were just, oh, you know, look like, you know, somebody hadn't brushed their teeth in two years. And they were all like, you know,

you could see like, elongated teeth real sharp. Um, the eyes just beady, you know, but I couldn't tell if they were bloodshot or not. Scope can only see so much. The body itself, it just had to have been seven foot.

You know, even being on a slope, it was about, like, you know, two-thirds of the way up of a couple trees. Was the creature vocalizing at you? It was vocalizing at us with, like, extreme, extreme, like, volume and its voice. Like, it was just growling and screaming, like, I, it sounded like, it almost sounded like, you ever seen the movie The Polchie Geist? You mix that with like, like, a lion war. So let me ask you, so you're sitting there, you guys are looking at this thing.

It looks pissed, it's showing its teeth to you guys. And, you know, for lack of a better term, it's a monster sitting there looking at you guys. You guys are thinking at any moment, well, and I'm assuming, correct me if I'm wrong in any of this. but you guys are thinking this thing's going to, at any moment, it's going to be a fight here shortly. And then you said there was other ones around you that kind of exploded? Yeah, they exploded right after he exploded. And, you know, they started exploding and screaming. And he started just blasting in all directions thinking, you know, like it was, you know, lions until he actually saw whatever it was.

You know, I had seen it when we switched weapons. but, you know, they were screaming and shaking trees, and we could just see, like, as the weapon moved across from left to right, you could see glimpses of them. And one part I wanted to ask you about the story. I know when you and I originally talked to you, but you talked about snowmobiles. Did you guys ride in with snowmobiles?

Yeah, we rode in down this trail. It was about a foot of snow, and it was just too hard to get truck through. You'd have to gun it pretty bad, you know. You'd have to gun it in a four-wheel drive and run that four-wheel drive all the way out. through that truck to get through that trail. So we took snowmobiles there. Yeah, and I've been in situations like that before.

So you guys see this thing. Other ones are around shaking brushes, screaming at you guys. What happens next? Well, after that, after he had seen it, we both, he, you know, started backing up slowly and shooting off rounds up in the air. And I'm still sitting there, you know, kind of frozen looking at it. You know, and all of a sudden I looked behind me, and there was more of them. And they're getting a little bit closer, a little bit closer.

And he said, he turns to me and he's like, you know, we need to get out of here. He starts running down the trail. I run after him. I'll stop, you know, I stopped every, you know, 30 or 40 feet and shot off a couple bursts of 2,23 rounds out of my AR, just at whatever I could see. I can only see glances of them. One that we saw, it had to have taken off. As I sat there and looked at it, looked back, and it wasn't there again.

So I'm guessing it must have ran across around the slope to try to cut us off. But, you know, we weren't going to wait and stay, you know, and see what had happened. We took off down that trail. I continued to shoot. I'd follow him. I'd go back, shoot again, follow him. We got back to the snowmobiles. He took off and said, you know, I'm getting out of here.

took off, ran up the trail to the truck, left me there. I went in and tried to start up the snowmobile. That wouldn't start. You know, we left the keys on and the key on the power and the lights on. It killed the whole battery and couldn't even get them started. So I crouched down behind the snowmobile and started firing off rounds in all different directions from left to right, left to right. And I went through a lot of clips.

Like, this was a 20-minute period of me just, you know, hoping that they wouldn't get closer. You know, I'd just keep firing at him, firing at him, firing at him. And they just kept screaming and screaming. And, you know, I could tell that they were starting to get closer because I had looked, and the light would, as I turned my rifle, the light would, you know, appear on one of them. And it would just, like, get a little bit closer, you know, shake some trees back up. Get a little bit closer. Shake some trees back up.

God, I can't even imagine. You must have been terrified sitting there. I mean, you're lucky to be alive. I'll be honest with you. You're lucky to be alive, man, sitting there. Your cousin's running up to get the truck, and you're sitting there firing off rounds around the snowmobiles. Yeah, I had shot off at least, like, you know, 10 magazines.

I think, God, I had my vest on me. You know, I just pull out a magazine, reload, keep firing at them, you know. And I'm thinking to myself, you know, like, if I kill one of these things, you know, they could all come at me, so I'm not as well. you know, make my shots count, but it's been so dark and shaking from the cold. And I'm like, you know, almost like petrified. I feel like I'm going to die at this point. You know, I'm like, might as well go down fighting.

I'm not thinking that he's going to come back. I'm thinking that he's just taking off back to the house and he's going to lead me here. And I'm just firing and firing and shooting out of birth shots of like three rounds. And then I'm, you know, I'm reloading and freaking out and grabbing more ammo. up my snowmobile, and then all of a sudden he comes roaring down the trail. Like, I've never seen my truck go that fast down the snow cover trail and not get stuck, and he's flying down this trail. Honks the horn is still going up the trail.

I run, you know, I'm laying half out of the truck, half in the truck with my head on his right shoulder, you know, laying my head on there still shooting as, you know, we're running, and I could just see glances of him, and they say. started running past the snowmobiles where we were at and continued to try to chase us out. And after we got to the top of the trail and onto that road that we took in, I still, like, you know, shot like three or four clips still going. You know, and he's freaking out of there, we're out of there, calm down, calm down. And I'm just sitting there firing and I got, you know, powder burns, all of my hands.

My hands are all charred up. And I'm just not thinking about what I'm doing. And I'm just like, you know, they're going to follow us. They're going to follow us. You know, I'm not going to let them, you know, hurt the family. Let me ask you in the moment. And this might be a hard question to ask. Someone asked me this.

I don't remember who did. But during your encounter, in the moment, when you're sitting there, I realize you go in a survival mode and you're doing what it takes to survive in that moment. But were you thinking this is Sasquatch at the time? Or you're thinking what the hell is this thing? I'm thinking of myself Like, you know, I've walked into some, like, you know, you ever seen the movie The Cabin in the Woods?

I have not, no. No, it's, you'll have to watch it, but it's like, like, you know, like it's something government created, you know, that, like, got loose out of a lab, you know? I'm thinking, you know, these are monsters that, you know, got released out of a lab and who's just living out here and they're trying to kill me.

I had no, I had no thought of Bigfoot. I thought, you know, you know, some type of monsters that got released out of the lab and, you know, they were just feeding on people that go out here because I had never seen this before. Even going out there, I had never experienced anything like this.

And I'm just freaking out and, like, you know, I'm losing control of myself. And I checked my drawers when I got home and I had wet my bliggings. I was so scared. Yeah, and I think anyone in that same situation probably would have done the same. thing. You know, you talk about movies and I think of like the Harry and Henderson's, which

seems a little bit offensive after a situation like you were in. You know, and I hear a lot of historical accounts, and the biggest mistake I can say from reading a lot of historical accounts is the guys separate. And the moment the guys separate, one of them ends up paying the price. Do you feel like without that gun they would have easily have taken you? Oh, they definitely would have taken me. You know, once he would have taken off and I was at the snowmobiles trying to get those stugged up, he would have, you know, they would have just closed in and they would have just gotten me right there. And once he came back, you know, they would have just got him too.

They would have surrounded that truck and ripped him out and tore him to pieces. Let me ask you, going back to before everything got out of control, when you're sitting there and you're looking at this creature and you guys are both looking at it and it's showing its teeth and its hands are shaking and it looks like it's going to rip your head off right before everything in the forest went crazy did you guys fire off shots

and that's right after that is when they started screaming and yelling and shaking brush or did they do that prior to you guys shooting your guns once we had seen it and I got that a little bit backwards. Once we had seen it, I looked at it through my scope, I saw it. You know, we switched, he looked at it, we switched again. You know, then the roaring started happening, and then all of a sudden, you know,

he starts firing off around towards the back of us, you know, seeing glimpses and pieces of them. You know, and then that, you know, once they started roaring, and once he saw that, he turned automatically right back behind me back to back in a prone position. Well, not in a full prone, but, you know, a down on a knee. And he just, they started screaming and he just went into Rambo mode and just started firing off like crazy. So you're firing off rounds as you guys are driving off. And I'll imagine at some point you stopped firing your weapon. But what was the conversation like between you and their cousin as you guys are

driving home? Well, I took the gun. I threw it in the back seat and I told, I looked at him and I was like, what the hell was that? Like what, what was that, you know? And he's like, well, you know, I don't know what it was. You know, I don't, I can't explain any of that, you know. And we sat there and we kind of argued, you know, like, was, was that our imagination or did we really see what we just saw, you know, did we just see monsters, you know, running through the, the forest trying to get at us. And, you know, we thought back and forth, he said that, you know, there's that, you know, that, you know, that they were squatches.

And, you know, I told him that, you know, that there's no way that that could have been a Sasquatch that's, you know, that's impossible until, you know, I really thought about it before we got to the house. And I'm like, you know what? Like, we talked about it and you explained to me exactly what they look like. And I'm like, that's exactly what we saw that I sat there and I thought to myself. I'm like, wow, I doubted the existence of these things. It was so long in my life that I'm actually seeing what I've doubted.

Yeah, and I think that's okay, like you and I were just talking about before we went on air. People get upset when other people say these things don't exist. It's impossible. I've been a hunter my whole life. And it's like I was telling you, I kind of understand. that mentality because at one point I had that mentality of God I've been everywhere

in the woods and it is seeing really is believing when you run into these things and what's interesting about your encounter and I've said it a million times on the show before sometimes they aren't I think a lot of listeners think I think these saints are godless killing machines

and I really don't believe that but in the same breath I think they're unpredictable I think they can be very dangerous and they can can turn on you in a dime. And I think they throw tantrums. They throw tantrums like, I hate to use the term autistic kid, because my heart goes out to any parents that actually have autistic kids, but that's the only thing I can liken it to, you know, like an autistic kid. Now take an autistic kid throwing a tantrum, make them eight feet tall and a thousand pounds. And that's kind of how a

Sasquatch reacts. I mean, they kind of go into these weird tantrums where they're pissed and they're going to take it out on something or someone. I'm assuming you guys left the snowmobiles behind. Yeah, we left the snowmobiles. We left the trailer there, too, on top of the ridge. We actually took it off because, you know, I don't like, you know, leaving, you know, things connected to my truck. I just, I got this weird OCD about, you know, taking things off as I put them,

you know, put something back on or I get to somewhere, you know, I take things off off of what it's connected to. And we left the snowmobiles there. You know, he actually, you know, when he ran past, he actually just ditched the snowmobile. It was like, you know what, I'm just going to bolt bound right out to the truck. And I'm sitting there, you know, I'm just going to take the snowmobile. I'll pick him up halfway, but, you know, just would not start.

We left him there. Did you guys ever go back for him? Oh, he did, actually. He went down there and went to go pick him back up. took his 350 Ford, which is a monster of a truck, took that and went down the trail with it and went back for him. And they were just ripped the pieces. Like it looked like somebody just, you know, a bunch of kids just with superhuman strength just ripped apart, you know, a bunch of mobiles and threw them all over the place. And it was gasoline all over the ground and these pieces thrown up in trees.

You know, the handlebars were literally ripped off and thrown at least like 10 feet, 11 feet up into a tree from what he was telling me. And it was a serious craziness. I don't understand, you know, like, why, you know, why they would do that. I understand, you know, they have tempter or up. Oh, sorry. Heart your talk. Tenture tantrumor. And it's just like it was like they just, like, they just.

wanted to rip these things apart like, like it was unusable. Like you'd have to get brand new parts. You'd have to rebuild these whole things. You know, there was no way you're getting these things out of there. You know, they just ripped the pieces, you know. The rails were just thrown everywhere, you know. Betty was just ripped out wires hanging out all over it. It looked like, you know, he told me he looked at the inside of the engine.

It looked like something was chewing, chewing through the wiring. He had seen teeth marks all across the wiring to the gas lines and motorways. just torn straight out of it and thrown five feet. How does your cousin feel about what happened? What does he say? He tells me never to bring it up. You don't want to talk about it. You don't want to think about it.

He wants nothing to do with it. He's done it over with the outdoors. He moved to the city. Yeah, and I can't really blame him a whole lot. You know, in these situations, you wonder what really set them off. Did you ever get the impression, as you guys were firing off shots? and the impression I mean is, you know, sometimes when he fire off a shot, you can kind of tell if he hit something.

Do you guys ever get the impression that you guys might have hit one of them? I've got the feeling we might have, you know, we set up targets, but, you know, he was sitting there and he's sitting there, you know, shooting at 12-gauge one-handed. You know, this guy's like a 300-pound, like seven-foot guy, you know, well, not seven-foot, you know, like six, seven, six-eight. guy, you know, shooting out of a shotgun, not caring, you know, to even hit the target. I'm sitting there just, you know, doing precise shots.

And, you know, I've thought about it. And I think he might have hit one, you know. I really do. Or, you know, maybe I hit one. But either way, one of us, one of us might have hit one and might have pissed him off. As you were sitting there and your cousin left to go get the truck and you were popping off shots trying to shoot one of them, do you think you're, you're, you know, you might have hit one or I guess that's a hurt question to ask, but did you get that feeling

like you might have hit one? I had, when I was shooting and I was going left to right and then back and then left right back and then some way to my left, shooting in all directions, I had heard like a squeal. After I shot a burst fire shot, I'd seen one in the flashlight and it was maybe, you know, 50 yards away and I just held on my gun my hand was shaking so bad and I just shot that burst fire and I heard that squeal I heard that squeal and it disappeared away from uh or out of my line of sight and the ones that were getting closer and closer you know I might have hit them too you know I just I'd seen glimpse and little glimpses of them and their faces and

I just kept shooting and shooting and shooting and shoot and so I'm pretty sure I had to have you know I could have hit, you know, one, two, three, you know, maybe four of them. So there had been so much screams coming from all different directions, but, you know, I didn't want to, I didn't even think about it. I'm just like, you know, let's, you know, I'm just going to hold them off as much as I can and, you know, try to block out that face. You know, I'd see that face and I would immediately, you know, just go for the chest because I didn't, I didn't want to look at that face. The face and the anger and teeth, you know, it just sent, you shivers down my spine every time I think about it.

What was it about the face that terrified you? It's like the deadness in it. Like, the eyes were just like a dark brown. And, you know, the face, the teeth, like, it's flashing its teeth and, like, opening up the mouth and just screaming and, you know, beating, you know, trees, breaking limbs, you know, and just yelling in the air. And, you know, it looked like they were puring into your soul. Yeah, no, and I get that.

I completely understand. How long ago did this encounter take place? This happened last year. It would have been nice to go back and look for blood, especially in the snow. It would have stuck out like a sore thumb. It would have been nice to go back and actually see if you might have actually hit one. Your cousin didn't happen to mention that, did he? No.

after we left, the snow started coming in again, and it was snowing pretty heavy. So he went back out, and, you know, he looked at the snowmobiles, and he said he looked all over, you know, the area that we were at. He didn't see any blood. He had seen the casings and the clips that I had left, which were scattered. It looked like they were scattered all over, and a couple were missing, that he had found. up on the slope that thing was standing on, which he looked and he looked for footprints. He couldn't find any footprints and didn't find any blood or anything. Yeah, it's a terrifying story.

You know, it reminds me of, well, it reminds me of a lot of things, but a lot of different encounters that I've heard. And, you know, I had Bob Garrett on one time. I talked to him at depth. There was a torn up camp they came across. and this torn up camp looked like King Kong went through and ripped this place to shreds. And there's a lot more to the story, and I generally stay away from the story for other reasons. But I tell you that, to tell you this, one of the things he had mentioned was it looked like someone was standing upright, a human, with a gun in their hand, firing at 365 degrees, like they were in a defensive position. And they were terrified of something, and they were firing in all directions in like a big circle.

They were just standing there. And people passed it off to, well, they were target shooting. And you and I both know that you don't target shoot and shoot 365 degrees around you. You set up your targets. You shoot at one general area. If you're shooting 360 degrees, you're in a defensive position at that point, and you're shooting at something. God, I just wonder what would have happened is. you guys would have gone up with your bows instead of your guns and what kind of a situation you might have been.

And do you mind speaking about where this generally took place? You don't have to give it the way the exact location, but in Colorado generally, where are we talking about? It was northeast way up in the mountains. I rather not give it up the exact location. I don't want people snooping around. I don't want somebody losing their life. You know, I don't want someone to experience what I experienced because, you know, it's something you don't want to happen to you. You know, you don't want, you know, to go through what I went through.

You're right. It is one of those things you don't want to have someone else go through. You know, most people who have encounters, the first thing they'll say who have legitimate encounters is, I wish I would have never seen it. I wish it would have never happened. because it does change your perspective on what's out there in the woods. You know, it's no longer just bears and cougars and dears. There's something else out there running around. Has this changed your life at all since you've had this encounter? No, it's definitely changed my life.

Sometimes I can't even sleep at night. You know, I can't even get the image out on my head, you know, and it always comes back to just me being alone there, not having anything, but, you know, my bare hands and just being cornered by these things and just being ripped limb from limb. And, you know, some nights, you know, I'll wake up and I'll wake up my wife and I'd be like, did you hear that? Did you hear that? And she'd be like, what is it? I might do something moving around the house.

I'll get out and grab my rifle and shoot off 10, 15 rounds to left to right. And, you know, it's almost like a post-traumatic stress. it's ruined everything for me. You know, I can't even go to work without people asking me, you know, why do you look like you're strung out? Why do you look like you haven't slept?

And, you know, I'm just like, I can't explain it. You wouldn't believe it. You wouldn't understand. Honestly, I think a lot of people go through that. I went through it, like you and I talked about off the air. I went through that same thing, man, nightmares. Um, for me, it was the growl. Like I lay in bed at night, closed my eyes. And I could just hear their growl. I could hear the same growl. And I've described it, which probably isn't a great description, but I've described it as a very demonic type growl. I mean, something I've never heard before. And I went through the same thing you did, you know, where you have nightmares of it's just you out there and this thing's pinned you in and you can't leave. And you feel like the thing's going to get you. And I think for a lot of people who haven't had encounters,

maybe have a hard time understanding that. But I really understand exactly what you mean when you say that. It's terrifying, man. You know, I try and warn people all the time. I try and tell people, you know, one of the main things people will say who haven't had encounters, they'll say, God, I'd love to see one. I'd love to be in a position to see one of these things. I really want to see one of these things.

And then you talk to people who've actually seen them. And the first thing they say is, I wish I would have never seen it. I wish I would have never experienced it. That's exactly how I feel, you know, that my son's, my son comes up to me, you know, sometimes. And he's like, hey, dad, you know, I want to, I want to see one. You know, I want to make friends and friends with them, you know. They want to be our friend. And I'm like, they don't want to be your friend.

They want to make you lunch. Like, you don't want to see these things. You don't want to experience it. you don't want anything to do with it. And he'll go to school and do projects about it and talk to his friends about it and be like, oh, my dad did this and this. And, you know, I've had teachers call me,

you know, why are you having your son telling kids all this, that, why are you telling you some this and that? You're scaring all the kids. And it just, it hurts. And I'm sorry, I'm about to cry. It just, it hurts. It hurts a lot. you know, and people just, they don't, they don't understand it.

They really don't. Yeah, my heart goes out to you, man. I mean, and that's... It's ruined my marriage. It's ruined. It's ruined my marriage. My wife is just, you know, she doesn't get it, you know. Tarrows at night, you know, the screaming, it just never goes away.

Well, the one thing I can't tell you is it does go, it gets easier with time. And the biggest thing, you know, I'll tell you one thing. When I very first started doing this show, I had a very, me and my brother had a very, very aggressive encounter. And you and I talked about that the other day. And it scared me. It really did. It terrified me. And then I got to looking around talking to other people.

There's this impression that people want to have that this is the Harry and the Hendersons, that these are, you know, magical fairies. or they put them in the same categories like unicorns and, um, and that's not reality. What's reality is these things are out there. And the reality, the fact of the matter is these things are dangerous. These things are, you know, people listen to the show and they think I just pick out the scary encounters. They think I just pick out the terrifying encounters. And that's not really the case.

99.9% of all of the encounters are terrifying encounters. flat out scary terrifying encounters and until you see them until you witness them firsthand it's hard to express to someone how you feel after you've seen something like this all of that stuff all of the stuff with your kid all this stuff with your wife you kind of have to take with a grain of salt they weren't there with you when you had the encounter and i know it hurts when you when you're trying to express the way you feel. I know it hurts when you're trying to express the way you're feeling about what happened. And they just don't get it. And one of the things that you have to come to terms with, and it took me a long time to come to terms with this, A, most people won't believe you.

Out of the people that do believe you, they don't get the amount of fear that took place. They don't get that it was a life or death type situation. Yeah, I've had guys on the show that were in some pretty bad combat situations, like in Iraq, Vietnam, and they've told me flat out, hey, that isn't even hold water compared to the fear I felt when I ran into this thing. It was life or death. And you can tell it from your encounter, you can tell it from your emotions, man. You're popping off shots, you know, and you don't do that.

unless you are in fear of your life. What can I do to help you, man? What can I do to, you know, name it and I'll make it happen? Just tell me what I can do to help your situation. I feel for you. My heart goes out to you because I've been there before. I just, I don't want anybody else to go through it, man. It wasn't how it was supposed to be, you know.

It was supposed to be a great weekend. It was supposed to be, you know, everything I wanted. to do that weekend and everything went to shit you know these things had to you know they had to ruin it you know they had to come in and surround us

I it's been on my mind a lot but I the ammo clips they were on top of that slope that he found why did why did they take off with those are they going to be able to somehow smell me out

are you saying they took the ammo clips yeah they took the ammo clips from the snowmobile up the slope and left I'm on top of the slope or on top of the hill. Yeah, I don't think these things are probably going to come for you.

I really don't. I realize you kind of live in the general area where this happened, but they tend not to follow people. Generally speaking, I think that these things really want nothing to do with you. And when they come in like that,

like they did with you, throwing rocks, shaking brush, vocalizing. That's kind of the cue to leave. They just want you to go away. They don't really want any interaction with you. They don't really want to engage with you. And again, I'm theorizing. I don't have one of my garage I'm studying. But I think that is the cue to leave. I think that's the cue to go away. That's their way of trying to intimidate you to leave. Because when you get a good look at these things. And I know you got a pretty good look at them. You know, they could rip your arms off and

beat you with them and there's really nothing you can do about it. You might get the first one. You might get the second one. But the third or fourth one's going to get you. I think if they really truly wanted you, I think they would have gotten you. Generally speaking, when they come in like they did with you and they're screaming and yelling, they're vocalizing, they're doing what's called the display. Just like you see with gorillas, just like you see with chimps. I think these things do the same thing. They kind of have to work their way up

into an attack. They have to work up the courage to attack you. And they're doing all these things because they really don't want to attack you. They just want you to go away. You know, one thing that helped me to be honest with you, and this is going to sound like

crazy talk to you, David, but one of the things that honestly helped me kind of get over the fear because I went through the same thing man I'd break down in tears and I wasn't sleeping God there was like months there for a long period of time where I only slept maybe an hour hour and a half a night of good sleep and the rest of time I was I was pretty much on high alert but I had this asshole brother of mine that wanted to constantly go back he wanted to he was different from your cousin he was the type of guy he was wanted to go back. He wanted to see him again. Was he scared? Yeah, he was scared. But he wanted to go back. And so he

would always force me to go back up with him to the area of our encounter. And the first couple of times, I could have thrown up going up there. I was shaking. I really didn't want to be there. I would have drank, but I was afraid that I would drink and we'd run into one of these things. And then I wouldn't have my alertness, so I wouldn't drink, but we'd go up there. And I was scared as hell, man. I was completely scared as hell going up there. And it took about five or six times of us going back up there before I started realizing the encounter that we had isn't something you run into every day, isn't something that happens every night. And talking about it actually helps. It actually helped me a lot to talk about it.

even though it hurts when people come out and say they don't believe you or they think you lied about it or they think, you know, whatever people want to believe. None of that you can control. You can only control how you feel about what happened. It's during the night, man, when I get back to my house in my cabin, it's, you know, every night, you know, I'll take that rifle, I'll put the light out and I'll circle the house seven, eight, nine or ten times, you know, and I'll keep circling around before I, you know, let anybody in the house sleep.

because I'm scared, you know, they could be out there, you know, they could be waiting. You know, you never know. You know, I'm sorry. No, no, you're good, man. You're good. I don't think these things have the nut sack to do that, to be honest with you. Generally speaking, I'll tell you what I've learned, and I haven't really talked about this on the show, but I'll tell you what I've learned about these creatures through interviewing. for every interview you actually hear on the air, I've talked to probably 15 people. So that gives you an idea of how many people I've actually spoke to.

But one of the things I learned really quick from guys that were in situations like you're in, guys that were in situations like you're in, except for instead of sitting around a snowmobile, they're sitting inside their house dealing with it. Generally speaking, these sayings want nothing to do with you. they will go after the young, they'll go after the old, they'll go after the, if they're going to attack, they'll go after the weaker of the, it's that predator mentality. A predator doesn't want to, even though, like in your situation, if you think about it, it was just you sitting at that snowmobile with your AR-15. Let's assume there was three. There was probably more, but let's just say there was three. They could have easily overpowered you. and harmed you.

But why didn't they? The reason why they didn't is because one of them might have gotten you, but I guarantee you would have taken two of them to hell with you. You know what I mean? It's that type of mentality of I don't think they really want to, I don't think they want to be in a position to where they might get hurt in the situation. That's why you don't hear of most hunters being attacked by cougars. What you hear of attacks by cougars are small children and women,

women or very old people get attacked by cougars. Generally, a cougar won't attack someone like yourself or like me because it may lose in the end because we're a bigger target where a predator doesn't look at it. They want the easy meal. They want the easy prey to attack. They don't want to go attack a guy sitting there firing off an AR-15 because he might cause some damage in the process. So I honestly, and I'm just kind of rambling now, but I really wouldn't be too worried about them.

If you would have had problems with them coming up to your house, it would have happened a long time ago. I guarantee they're not around your home. They're not watching your home. They're not watching you. I know that probably doesn't bring your great solace. But at the end of the day, I think if they were going to follow you back and they were going to cause you harm, it would have happened a long time ago. why um why did they bring those uh clips with them like why did you know i never unloaded i never you know left any clips on that slope i was at the bottom of the hill surrounded by you know surrounded

by them you know why why did they put those on top of that slope where it was standing was that you know was that supposed to be some sort of message is that you know were they intrigued by what it was No, I don't think that there's any message And I don't know that it was so much that they were intrigued by it You know, I told you about the hunter that was attacked by one A couple days when you and I were talking And one of the things that he said to me was And I've heard this on more than one occasions

When they when he had pulled his gun out It's almost like it recognized what that was And there was kind of this Oh crap look on its face as soon as it saw him pull that gun out But, you know, these things take some of the weirdest things. You know, I had a police officer on one time that, is there a place in Colorado, and you'll have to correct me on this, David, that called Pike's Peak?

I've been down there quite a few times in my son. Pike's Peak, okay. He actually had an encounter up there. They had surrounded his camp. This guy's a police officer, current police officer. They had surrounded his camp. He was out with his two boys. and they were shaking brush all night long.

They were throwing pine cones. They were throwing rocks at them. And he's sitting around the campfire. And he's telling his boys to go to sleep inside the tent. Well, he's sitting there terrified. But he doesn't want to play off like he's terrified to his kid. So he sits there with this 45 in his hand around the campfire. And he's getting pelted with rocks.

He's getting pelted with pine cones. And they're growling at them. They're screaming at them. They're shaking the brush. And this went on almost all night. And right before sunrise, they left. And he watched them leave. He kind of watched the area where they went, and it was in the Pike's Peak area.

He decided to hike up to this ridge line. So he goes hiking up to this ridge line, and he gets up to the top of this ridge line. And what he found up there, he said he found, like, old pill bottles from, like, 20 years ago, prescription pill bottles. he found a tent from like 30 years ago and it just looked like something was grabbing stuff from stealing stuff from campgrounds and just kind of piling up on this ridge line there was no rhyme or reason behind it

and you know I think in your situation there were just you know some of the little ones will pick up stuff they'll walk off with it they'll drop it I don't think there was any message to it man I really don't and if I thought for one second that was a message to you I'd say get out of Dodge, that was a message to you. But again, you have to think this happened over a year ago.

And if something were, if they would have followed you back, you know, if there was going to be some sort of retribution, it would have happened. These things are probably long gone out of the area, to be honest with you. They've probably moved on. I hope so. You know, I don't want anybody else to go through that. You know, I don't want, you know, someone, you know,

to lose their child or to lose their husband or wife or anything to these things. You know, it's something that you don't mess with, you know, you don't. And I honestly, I think that maybe, you know, us shooting out there might have disturbed them when they were hunting or maybe they were trying to get some rest. A lot of things could have happened, you know. They could have been coming in to check you guys out. And as you guys were firing off guns, maybe you hit one by mistake. These things are different from your normal wild animals.

You know, a normal wild animal, like a cougar or a bear, you fire off an error 15, man. Everything within two miles is gone. Deer, all your prey, your predators, they're gone. These things are a little bit different. They'll come in to check things out. I've had situations where I think you and I talked about the other day. There was a poacher I knew up in Washington State, and he was up towards a, area to where my brother and I had our encounter, and he'd go up poaching at night.

And I guess I don't, he'd just say I don't really have a problem with his poaching. He would actually eat the deer, and he was more or less to eat it and feed it. He wasn't just killing to kill, but he'd do it in off seasons and whatnot. And he said one night when he was up there, he had shot a deer, and he followed the blood trail, went to go get the deer, and he goes, man, I'm telling you, there was an eight-foot-tall ape that had my deer over its shoulder and was walking off with it. He goes, I don't know what to tell you. I don't know how much that gunfire really terrifies these things.

I had shooting in their direction. I literally, like, I would look at the face through with the scope and through the light, and I would just go straight down to the chest. And then I'd go to the left, and then the right, and then the left, and just keep hitting each one, but I don't know how that didn't scare them off, you know? Like, maybe the bullets, you know, maybe the sight was off and it was missing on, or maybe I hit a few of them when I was hearing about screaming and squealing. But it's just like they kept coming.

Like, it went from like three and then it would be like I'd look back and there would be another one standing right behind the other one screaming and they would just keep coming. It was just like nonstop. And I'm thinking to myself like, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to run out of ammo here pretty soon. Like, within the next 10 minutes, I'm not going to have anything left. And he's got, like, three clips in the truck. Well, you know, and the one thing I think to keep in mind, too,

that might make you feel a little bit better. If they wanted you, they would have gotten you. I think that the gunfire probably scared them off. And you might have hit a couple of them, which probably just piss them off more. I don't think you really have any. anything to worry about around your property man. Like I said, if it was going to happen, it would have happened.

And the thing is, is a lot of people experience this. A lot of people, they want this to be Harry and the Henderson's. They want this to be, and most people who don't believe in this creature, they'll say, if this creature is real, I want it to be, you know, you go out and feed it apples and you pet it on the head. And that's the farthest from the truth. That's not really reality with these things. They don't really want...

They don't want to be your friend, and that's it. And they don't want to be your friend. They want to keep man and themselves separate. It seems like, you know, I walked into a community, you know. I walked into an area that was theirs, you know. Like, you know, back in the day when, you know, the colonial, you know, guys would go into Native American territory and they would just get ambushed Because, you know, they're not supposed to be there.

And, you know, they're disturbing their land. Honestly, man, my heart goes out to you because I know, generally speaking, how you're feeling. I mean, I honestly went through the same thing. I know how you're feeling. I know that it's hard to come back. It's kind of like I was just telling you before we went on air. After my encounter, man, I came home and I was white as a ghost. even my ex-wife at the time looked at me and goes,

man, you are white as a ghost. What did you guys out drinking? Were you guys out, you know, and I had to explain to her, no, we weren't out drinking. And I was trying to express to her what I saw, and I didn't do a great job expressing to her what I saw because I didn't really know what we saw. I didn't really, I couldn't put it in a neat little box for anyone listening to our encounter to go,

this is what we saw, this is what. there's so many emotions that come up in a situation like yours to where it really is life or death, man, because in your situation, that coin could have flipped over really quick and you could have been a missing person. And it makes you wonder about a lot of people that go out there missing, a lot of hunters that come up missing that just seem to vanish. This sort of thing does tend to happen in these situations. I'm really glad that he came forward and decided to share it. I know it wasn't easy for you. I know it wasn't the easiest thing in the world to come forward and say,

hey, I saw this and this is how I'm feeling. After I started listening to your show, I did a lot of research on it, you know, and I listened to a lot of the episodes and, you know, I'm like,

I got to say something. I got to, you know, I got to get this off my chest because it's just, it's eating me away. Yeah, I'm not getting sleep at all. You know,

I'm not being a person than I used to be. And honestly, it'll change you. It'll change you for the better and eventually you'll be able to see that. Right now it's hard to see that. But it will change you for the better because you know I hear people talk about, and this is a little bit

off topic, but hear people talk about they saw a ghost or they saw aliens or they saw and they're being very sincere about what they saw. And I would say prior to my encounter, I was kind of hard on people. I was like, oh, come on, really. And now you kind of have a different outlook on, you know,

Pandora's box has been opened for you in the sense that when someone says, hey, I saw this, you might be more apt to go, I believe you. I think you probably did see that. But it opens your mind a little bit up. And eventually you'll get back out there, David. You'll get back out in the forest. You'll be back out shooting again. You'll be back out target practicing. the difference is when you go out, you'll know, you know now what's out there. You know to be a little bit more careful in situations because there's more than just bear, there's more than just cougar, there's more than just, you know, your normal wildlife out there. That these things aren't real.

They are out there and people do run into them. Yeah, it's going to be a while. You know, I'm so scared of even, you know, stepping foot in a national park. You know, I want to even go out, you know, out with the sun. Same more, you know, we used to go out. We used to go fishing and hiking. You'd make, you know, he'd make a little forts in the forest. And now he's, you know, like, Dad, do you don't want to spend time with me?

Do you not want to go out and do these things? You know, I love you, Dad. I want to spend time with you. And we won't even go out and do anything. I told him, I'm like, you know, you ain't. safe out there. I don't want you out there with your friends. I don't want mom taking you out there. I don't want

anybody taking you out there. You're not to set foot out of the property. You're to stay home inside. One of the things I would tell you to that is I would take your son out. I'd take him out to the forest. I would take him out. Go

camping. Go out and as much as it's going to kill you inside, go camping man. Take your kid. Take your kid. take your wife, retell the story, sit around the campfire, retell the story about what happened, and go out there and just try and enjoy it.

Go armed. Don't get me wrong. I mean, go armed. But you don't have to go with your AR-15. You can go with your pistol. One thing I will tell you, and this is a general blanket statement, generally speaking,

they won't just attack you. I have had a few encounters to where they will, but generally speaking they won't. The throwing of the rocks you experienced, and again, I'm theorizing on this, and I always say I don't have one of my garage I'm studying, but that is the cue to leave.

That's the cue to go away. We don't want you here, go away. And I think what ended up happening in the situation you're in, and I'm just speculating, and I'm by no means blaming you guys. But I think generally what happened is they were throwing rocks at you guys and that was a cue to go.

Probably the one you saw was the alpha male, was the alpha male of the group, and that was the cue to leave. He came out in the open so you guys could see him. That was the cue to go. When you started firing, that escalates a situation now. It's kind of like a game of chess.

I think if the rock throwing would have happened, you guys would have seen the big one, shown his teeth. I think if you guys would have walked away from that situation, probably nothing would have happened. They probably would have just let it go. The minute you start firing, that now escalates a situation. And I understand you guys firing.

I would have done the same thing. That's a cue to go. Here, I'm firing under normal circumstances, normal wildlife. They run as soon as you fire off a gun. And so I get it. But with these things, it's a different ball game you're playing. and so you have to play their game. And so if you start firing off weapons in that situation,

it's now a Mexican standoff and they're not going to run. So, I mean, I guess I'm saying not to say this. Take your kid out. And if you're having a hard time with taking your son and your wife out, take a buddy out and go out camping. and just spend the night out there and try and overcome that fear of being out there. Because at the end of the day, man, if they're going to get you, they're going to get you. There's things in life you can control and there's things in life you can't control.

And unfortunately, in this situation, this is one of those things that you can't control. I would say just try and get back out there. Jump back in the water, go back out camping. Take your wife, your son. It helps to talk about it. And there's no shame in breaking down, man. No shame at all in breaking down. Anyone that's been in that situation,

I guarantee they would have been breaking down. And anyone who says they don't is lying. Because that would have scared the hell out of anyone. That would have scared the hell out of me. It's, man, it's hard to really think about, you know, if I wouldn't have, you know, shot, you know. If I, you know, when I had seen that thing through the scope, you know, I had thought it was a person. And I'm like, you know, I had that split second thought of, you know, should I shoot this guy?

You know, this, you know, when I thought it was a person, you know, I thought, you know, am I going to have to shoot this guy? Is this guy going to, you know, come at me? And then when I saw that face, I'm like, this ain't no person. Like, this is not a human being. And, you know, my son, she's a little 22 in the backyard sometimes. And he's like, oh, dad, you know, why don't he? you, why don't you shoot the big one? You know, why don't you shoot him?

You know, you could take him down. And I'm like, son, if he was a man, I would not be able to live myself to take a human life. When I got back to that snowmobile, it just, I went berserk and I was ready to take that thing's life, the human's life, anything that was going to come at me. And, you know, if it was a bunch of kids in a bunch of suits, you know, I would have gladly, you know, went to jail and been like, yep, they came at me, you know, they were harassed. and me I had to defend myself. And it's kind of, it's really messed up to say that.

It really is messed up to say that. But, you know. Nah, I don't think so. I think that, you know, anyone in that same situation. The difference, though, in what you just said, instinctively, you know it wasn't a person. And you know it wasn't kids in suits. Because instinctively, what happened to you is you kicked into fight or flight. either people run in those situations

or they stand their ground and they're going to fight in those situations and generally honestly if you run it tends to go a lot worse because you have to get into a predator's mind at that point and when you see something running away from you

all of a sudden that becomes prey all of a sudden that went from a potential predator to prey and you went in instead of running you decided to stand up and fight and I think that's probably what held them at bay because you were all of a sudden you weren't an easy target now you know you're sitting around a snowmobile firing off an arrow 15

all of a sudden now you really aren't prey at that point you're just as you're one predator against several but you're still a predator so I mean I get it man I get how you feel I get what you how you're feeling right now I really do and it's hard that he you know my my cousin took off and left me there, you know. And I will not forgive him for that. And I will never trust him again out there anywhere out in the woods.

Because the situation can happen like that again, I understand he came back for me, but he left me with those things. He left me out there. And it was a 20-minute period where I didn't think he was going to come back. I really didn't think he was going to come back. I thought he was going to head straight back to the house and lead me to die. Well, and I would go easier on your cousin, man. everyone goes into that switch of, I'll tell you from my own encounter when me and my brother were out there.

Luckily, we were in the same car. But his instinct was to gun it and drive past us saying and get the hell out of there. He went into the flight mode. And we were armed to the teeth. And I think if they wanted us, they could have had us. But I guarantee we would have taken two or three of them with us. and so I went into a fight mode just like you did and everyone reacts different in those situations

I mean I would go easy on your cousin man you know you never know how someone's going to react until they're in that situation and it's not really conscious you know what I mean it's not really a conscious decision of like hey I'm going to leave this guy behind and I'm out of here it's more of a survival mechanism that kicks in how people react

And so, I mean, I would, honestly, I would go easy on your cousin in that situation. And it's hard because, you know, when we headed back to the snowmobiles, I had his back. Like, I stopped as he ran, and I let out a couple bursts, and then I'd go back and follow him, and then I let out a couple bursts. And they're just like, they were tracking behind us, and it's like I had his back. You know, I had his back because I knew, you know, I wanted to protect this bowl when he was running, and I wanted to make sure that these things were going to run to the side and, you know, pick him off and then get, you know, get at me. You know, I wanted to make sure that he was all right and we were both okay.

You know, I sat there and I stood there and I'd stop and just start firing. And he would just keep on running and keep on running. And it's like I had his back, but when did he have my back in that situation? When was, you know, I understand that he went back to back with me when we stood, when we were standing out there and we were. went into Krauss position. But, you know, I... It didn't really seem like he was all for, you know, the team. It seemed like he wanted to go to himself more than me.

And, you know, it kind of hurts. Well, and like I said, I don't think that that is as conscious of a decision as you think. That's not a... I honestly don't believe that's a conscious decision like you think. I'll give you a perfect example. My girlfriend who is probably one of the smartest women I've ever met. So I've told her a million times, do not run. If we get out there in these situations to where something starts screaming at us

or something starts throwing rocks at us, do not run. I don't care if Sasquatch comes out and starts charging us, do not run. You stand your ground. Don't run. I mean, I've told her so many times to where I'm sick of saying it. I'm sick of hearing myself say it.

And there was one situation we got into and something had thrown a rock and hit this old farm building we were standing next to. Huge rock hit it. And it just echoed. As I'm turning to look at her to say, don't run. She's already like a quarter of a mile in a full sprint running back to the camp

area. And so do I hold that against her? Do I say, well, that was a good. She's, I'm on my own. Not really. I think what happens in those high intense situations is people go into fight or flight. And it's just a switch that goes on. And it's a survival mechanism that clicks on. I guarantee he ran back to the truck. Probably was, like, feeling really bad about leaving you there, turned around and came back for you. And he probably wasn't even consciously thinking about running back up to the truck. So I know deep down it hurts, man,

but I honestly would not hold that against him. It really is a switch in our psychology that goes on. People are wired different ways, and I've talked about it before in the show. you know, in high intense situations, life or death matters, you would think I just came from church. I'm super calm, super cool. And then when the fear, the threat's gone, all of a sudden I start freaking out. My hands start shaking. My knees start shaking. I can barely talk. And it's just how I'm wired. And some people aren't wired that way. So I would go easy on them, man. I really would. I would go easy on them in that situation.

Guys that have been in war talk about the same thing. Buddies, they've built relationships with guys they called their brothers. They're getting shot at, you know, and in bad situations, and those guys just take off running, leave them there.

Some people are wired that way. So, I mean, I know it's not like a broken record, but I would go easy on them, man. I really would. You're right. Right. I feel bad for holding him against that grudge for so long.

I hold him that, you know, not wanting to be around him, you know, and he'll call sometimes, and I just won't answer, you know, tell him I'm busy, you know, or, you know, just try to avoid him as much as possible. It's, I got to call him and talk to him about this. Yeah, and that's part of being human, man. That's a normal reaction that most people would have. same reaction you had is the same reaction most people would have. But at the end of the day,

like you said, in high-intense situations, it's a switch that goes on. That's why they call it fight or flight. There's two options. You run where you stand your ground and fight. And it's not personal with anyone. It's just how certain people are wired. You know, you were wired to stand your ground and you were going to stand your ground and hold your ground and fire off shots. And I guarantee even if you were to ran out of ammo and they would have came in on you, I guarantee you would have fought to the death that you would have probably beat one of them to death with your error 15. That's how you're wired. It's not that you're trying to be a hero.

It's not that you're trying to be courageous. You're just wired that way. In a bad situation, you're going to sit there and fight. Some people aren't wired that way. It doesn't mean that they're cowardly. Some people just aren't wired that way. And when they get in those high-intense situations, that switch gets flipped. And instead of standing their ground and wanting to fight, their immediate reaction is to run.

One of the reasons why I wouldn't really hold it against him is I don't think it was probably a conscious decision of him running from the situation. But what was a conscious decision is, I got to go back for my cousin. I got to go back and get him. I got to get the hell out of here and pick him up and we got to get out of here. and pick him up and we got to get out of here. And so, you know, at the end of the day, he did the right thing. He came back and got you. So, I mean, I would go easy on him, man.

It's not a situation everyone runs into, as you know. It's not an everyday situation most people run into. You know, I would just go easy on him, man. You can forgive your cousin for taking off. You know, if you would have just went home and left you there, that might have been a different story. You know what I mean? Well, yeah, I wouldn't be talking to you, that's for sure.

Well, yeah. And, you know, this is one of those things, too, to where he's having, I can tell you right now, he's going through a harder time than you are because he refuses to talk about it. And I'm not a psychologist. I don't have any training in this, but I can tell you that's one of the worst things that you can do is not talk about it. You know, there was a lady, I posted it to the blog. I don't know if you

saw it or not, David, but she had seen one of these creatures cross the road, and she described it as having breasts and carrying a smaller one. I think she described it as being kind of chimp-like, and she had seen it cross a road. So she goes home, doesn't tell a soul. Two days later, she calls 911 and reports the incident. Now, while I don't think that's a great use of 911, but my heart goes out to her because I can imagine she sat for two days and this just ate her up inside, tore her up to where she didn't really know who to call, who to talk to, so she calls 911 to report it. and so everyone deals with it in a certain in different ways my best advice to you would be if you have a handgun a firearm like a 457 or something to that effect take your family out camping man go out there enjoy the outdoors try to learn to love the outdoors again now will you can i promise you your head won't be on a swivel or you'll be on high alert the whole time? No. My encounter happened back in 2012, and I can tell you this.

I took my son out camping, and I haven't told anyone this, so you're the first person I've told. I took my son out camping about six months ago. We were in the general area of where my original encounter happened, and I was nervous as hell, man. I didn't sleep most of the night. As soon as the sun went down, actually took out my, my 45, I fired off like four rounds in the air, just to let everything know in the area that, I don't even know why I was doing it, maybe too much testosterone, but I was out there, man, and I struggled with it. I barely slept that night, and the whole time my head was on a swivel. I mean, I was ready to, I was in kill mode the whole time, but it did help me. It helped me a lot because I went out a couple months after that and I wasn't quite on edge the whole time I was out

there. And as me and my son were sitting around the campfire, I was recounting the story of me and his uncle's encounter, what we saw, what we experienced. I think it helped me more than anything else just to kind of get back out and go back out at night and be out in the wilderness. And try to learn to love again what you used to love before the encounter. You just have to get back out there, man. You have to get back on the saddle, get back out there, and realize there's things in life you can't control. Something you can only control what you can control.

99% of life you can't control. What's going to happen is what's going to happen, and you can't control it. But you can't, for me, it was I couldn't. I got tired of living in the future. of what might happen. And what might happen really is like winning the lottery. It's like getting struck by lightning. Your chances of that happening again are slim to none.

Your chances of being in the situation you and your cousin were in are slim to none. You probably have a better chance of winning the lottery than being in that position again. So get back out there, man. Get back out. Try to learn to love. the outdoors again. As best as you can, the best way you can deal with it. I'll try the best man. I'll try. It really will. Keep your head up, man. Get back out there. Get back out in the forest. It does help. As much as you don't want to do it, it's kind of like the gym. As much as you don't

want to go to the gym, when you get in there, it helps. And that's kind of the same theory is when you go back out in the forest. Get back out there. Get your feet wet. Get back out in the woods. And the first couple times, I won't lie to you and say that it'll be easy because it probably won't be. But the more you get back out there, the more it'll help you a lot. Trust me.

Do you have any more questions for me about the incident? No, that's it, man. I appreciate your time and I appreciate you sharing the encounter. I really do. I know it wasn't easy for you. And if you need me for anything or if you need me to do anything for you,

or if you need, if you ever just want to talk off the air, give me a call, man. You got my cell phone number. Thank you, man. I really appreciate it. It feels good to get it off my chest and, you know, to have people understand, you know, you know, this isn't something, you know,

that you can disregard until you really experience it, you know. And, you know, to disrespect the forest or, you know, to disrespect, you know, mother nature, you know, she'll come back at you. Yeah, you're absolutely right. And it would have shook anyone up. It would have scared the hell out of me. That would have happened to me yesterday,

even after all the people I've talked to, all the research I've done, my own encounter. It would have shook the hell out of me, man. It would have scared the hell out of me. So keep your head up. And like I said, man, if you ever need anything,

if you just want to call and talk, if you got my cell phone number, give me a call anytime from her. Thank you, man. I really appreciate it. I really do. I've never had anybody, you know, really understand the situation, you know, and I have a similar encounter, you know, and I understand, you know, about these things and the way they are. Yeah, and it's not only that, like I said, it's the psychology behind it, too, what it does to you afterwards and the PTSD afterwards and all the other, you know, I get it.

I get what you're going through. Believe me, I get it probably more than most. Thank you for being on. Thank you to have me on. Really appreciate it. Really do you, man. Across the country, faster than the coronavirus and wagering week is your antidote. I'm Tom Barton, and I'm a veteran sports analyst

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