Sasquatch Chronicles - SC EP:156 1924 Albert Ostman Encounter

Episode Date: October 18, 2015

Bob Garrett will be joining me for this show. Albert Ostman (died 1975) was a Canadian prospector who reported that he was abducted by a Sasquatch and held captive for six days. He stated that the event took place near Toba Inlet, British Columbia in 1924. On August 20, 1957, police magistrate A.M. Naismith wrote an affidavit which states "...I found Mr. Ostman to be a man of sixty-four years of age; in full possession of his mental faculties. Of pleasant manner and with a good sense of humor. I questioned Mr. Ostman thoroughly in reference to the story given by Mr. Green. I cross-examined him and used every means to endeavor to find a flaw in either his personality or his story, but could find neither..."Albert Ostman also signed a Solemn Declaration indicating that his account of the Sasquatch story was true under oath and by virtue of the Canadian Evidence Act.

Five, five, four, four, three, three, two, one, one. When I had come down this hill, I had seen this creature cross the road. They would have ripped my locked door from my truck, extracted me from my vehicle, I knew what a damn thing I could have done about it. This thing I got to notice in its eyes. Its eyes was real, real evil, real sinister looking. You know, the look it was given.

What would hear a buddy? The South of a bitch is about six foot. Sir? Yes, I'm looking right at him. A Saskwatra Chronicle, a place where people share their encounters. Let's start the show. Sometimes, truth is stranger than fiction. In 1957, Albert Outsman recounted a story that happened to him back in 1924.

He was a Canadian prospector who reported he was abducted and held captive for six days by a Sasquatch. I grabbed my rifle and said, this is it. I'd made it to the opening in the Wall Canyon. The old lady was following me. I'm leaving. Get out of here. Do you understand what I'm saying? Don't follow me. As I made my way down the mountain, I thought,

you better take care of me, Lord, because if you don't, you're going to have me on your hands. The story began. several weeks prior. It's been a long year. I've been breaking my back in construction and logging work for the last year and thought, you know what, it's time for a vacation. BC is famous for lost gold mines. One is supposed to be at the head of Tobah Inlet.

I thought to myself, why not take a vacation and look for this mine at the same time? It'll be a great getaway. I took the Union steamboat to Lund, B.C. I needed a good scout and someone that knew the area. I hired an old Indian to take me to the head of Toba Inlet. Just my luck. I get a guide that never shuts up. This old man was going on and on and on about sask, watch this,

sask watch that. I had no idea what he was talking about. I asked the old man, what are you talking about old man what kind of animal is a saskatch the old indian said they have hair all over their bodies but they are not animals they are people big people living in the mountains my uncle saw tracks of one that were two feet long one old indian saw one over eight feet tall i don't believe in your old fables about mountain giants there might have been some thousands of years ago but not today The Indian said There may not be many, but they still exist. Yeah, I'm sure. We arrived at the head of the inlet about 4 p.m.

I made camp at the mouth of the creek. The Indian had supper with me. I told them to look out for me in about three weeks. I would be camping at the same spot when I came back. My favorite time of day, sunrise. That morning, I got my pack ready. My equipment consisted of one 30-30 Winchester rifle. I had brought my special homemade prospecting pick.

Axe on one end, pick on the other. I had a leather case for this pick, which fastened to my belt. Also my sheath knife. One last stop to the storekeeper to get some supplies, and the rest of this trip is going to be smooth sailing. I can feel it. I made my way to the storekeeper shop to get my supplies. Good day, shopkeep.

I made a long trip to get some gold. I'm actually on vacation. I've been breaking my back in construction. I just need some things like sugar, salt, matches, a lot of canned stuff if you got it. A bag of beans, prunes. I need macaroni and cheese. Three pounds of pancake flour. Six packets of rike.

King, hard tack. I need three rolls of snuff. The shopkeep said, he didn't want my life story. Just give him the list, and he'll make sure I have everything I'm asking for. I would say he was cooperative. I got all of my supplies. My journey is about to begin. The next morning, I had an early breakfast, made my pack up, and started out on this hogback.

What the hell was that? I heard some strange noise, but soon my focus shifted to my backpack. Jesus, could my backpack be any heavier? The storekeeper wasn't joking. He gave me everything I asked for. I'm guessing my backpack weighed about 80 pounds besides my rifle. After one hour, I had to rest. After traveling many days and camping in one.

terrible spot after another. I found an exceptionally good campsite. It had two good-sized cypress trees growing close together and near a rock wall with a nice spring just below these trees. I intended to make this my permanent camp. I cut lots of brush for my bed between these trees. I rigged up a pool from this rock wall to hang my pack sack on. I arranged some of the flat rocks for a fireplace for cooking. I had a really classy setup. Night was starting to fall. Yep, that's me. I'm a heavy sleeper. Not much disturbs me after I go to sleep, especially on a good bed, like I had now. Nice. I said as I opened my eyes. The next morning, my pack sack had been emptied out. Someone had turn the sack upside down.

I noticed that mainly my thanks have been disturbed, but nothing was really missing that I could see. I roasted my grouse on a stick for breakfast. Sounds terrible, but it's delicious. That night I filled up the magazine on my rifle. I still had a full box of 20 shells and six shells in my coat pocket. That night I laid my rifle under the edge of my sleeping bag. I thought a porcupine had visited me the night before, and porkies love leather, so I put my shoes in the bottom of my sleeping bag. I awoke, listening to the birds chirp.

As I opened my eyes the next morning, I noticed my pack sack had been emptied out again. Someone had turned the pack sack upside down. I can't believe I slept through that. It was still hanging from the pool from the shoulder straps as I had hung it up. the night before. I decided to climb out of my sleeping bag and take account to see if anything had come up missing. I had noticed one half-pound package of prunes were missing. I had also noticed my pancake flour was missing. Thanks for that. But my salt bag was untouched. Porcupines always look for salt, so I decided it must be something else in a porcupine. I look for tracks,

but found none. I didn't think it was a bear because a bear always mess things up. They tear apart your camp, they make a mess of things. And this really wasn't torn up. Nothing was really torn up. I decided to keep close to camp in case the visitors would come back. I climbed up a big rock where I can get a good view of the camp, but nothing showed up.

I was hoping it was a porcupine so I could get some good porky stew. Mmm, mm-mm. Delicious. These visits had been going on for three nights now. I decided I was tired of playing this game. Tonight was really cloudy. It looked like it might rain. I took special notice of how everything was arranged.

I closed my pack sack. I did not undress. I took my shoes off and put them at the bottom of my sleeping bag, just like I did the night before. I drove my prospecting pick into one of the sides of the cypress tree. so that I could reach for it from my bed. I also put the rifle alongside of me inside of my sleeping bag. I fully intended on staying awake all night.

I wanted to find out who this visitor was. I built a large bonfire. There was no way I was falling asleep tonight. Huh? What? Where am I? I could hear my supplies being dumped out. I was awakened by someone picking me up. I was still half asleep. At first I couldn't remember where I was at.

As I got my wits together, I remembered I was on this God-forsaken prospecting trip and still in my sleeping bag. My first thought was, it must be a snow slide, but there was no snow around my camp. Then it felt like I was tossed on a horseback, but I could feel whoever it was was walking. I tried to reason out what kind of animal this could be. I tried to reach for my sheaf knife and cut my way out of my sloth. sleeping bag. But I was in an almost sitting position. The knife was under me. I couldn't get a hold of it. But the rifle was in front of me. I had a good hold of that, but had no intentions of letting it go. At times, I could fill the cans and the sack touching me. Every once in a while, I could hear one fall out.

After what seemed like an hour, I felt like I was going up a steep hill. I could feel myself rise for every step. What was carrying me? God, it was breathing hard. And sometimes it had a slight cough. Now I knew this must be one of those mountains Sasquatch giants the Indian told me about. Why didn't I pay attention to what he was saying? I was in a very uncomfortable position, unable to move. I was basically sitting on my feet.

One of my boots in the bottom of the bag was crossways and was jabbing across into my foot. It hurt me terribly, but I could not move. God, it was hot inside this bag. It was lucky for me this fellow's hand was not big enough to close up the whole bag when he picked me up. There was a small opening at the top. Otherwise, I think I would have choked to death. Now he's going uphill, downhill, uphill, downhill. I could feel myself being slammed against the ground.

Thanks for that. If you're going to carry me, Oaf, carry me, I yelled out loud. uphill, downhill, uphill, downhill. I tried to estimate the distance and the direction as best I could. I guessed we had been traveling for about three hours. Finally, he stopped and dropped me like a sack of potatoes. Thanks for that. Then I heard him drop my pack sack.

I knew this because I could hear the cans rattle. I heard chatter, some kind of talk I didn't understand. The ground was sloping, so when he let go of my sleeping bag, I rolled downhill. I got my head out and got some air. I tried to strain my legs and crawl out, but my legs were numb. It was still dark. I could not see what my captors look like. I tried to massage my legs to get some life back into them and get my shoes on.

It sounded like four of them. They were standing around me and continuously chattering. I'd never heard a Sasquatch before the Indian told me about them, but I knew I was right among them. But how could I get away from them? That was the other question. I could see the outline of them now, as he began to get lighter. I now had circulation of my legs.

My left foot was still killing me from where the boot nail was sticking in. I got my boots out of the sleeping bag and tried to stand up. I found that I was wobbly on my leg. my feet, but I had a good hold of my rifle. What do you fellows want with me? Only more chatter. It was getting lighter now. I could make out forms of four people, too big and two little ones.

They were covered with hair, no clothes on at all. I looked down at my watch, 4.25 a.m. It was getting lighter now, and I could see these things clearly. They look like a family An old man, an old lady, and two young ones, a boy and a girl. The boy and the girl seemed scared of me. The old lady did not seem pleased

about what the old man dragged home. But the old man was waving his arms and telling them of what he had in mind. Yeah, Bacua, Bacwa. They all left me then. This has to be a bad dream. I feel like I'm awake. But this feels like a bad dream.

I've had bad dreams before, and this feels like one. I set my bag down. I had my compass and my prospecting glass on strings around my neck. I pulled my compass down. I tried to reason my location. Where am I? I could see now I was in a valley or a basin, about eight or ten acres, surrounded by high mountains.

On the southeast side there was a V-shaped opening About 8 feet wide at the bottom and about 25 feet high at the highest point That must be the way I came in But how will I get out of here? Oh, great More bad news The old man has now decided to go sit by the opening I guess I'm not going anywhere tonight

What do these people want with me If they were going to kill me they would have done it by now I moved my belongings up close to the west wall. There was two small cypress trees there. I guess this will do for a shelter, until I find out what these people want with me and how I can get away from here. I'd emptied out my pack sack to see what I had left in the line of food.

All my canned meat and vegetables were intact, and I had one can of coffee. Let's see, I got milk, two packages of... Two packages of Rye King Hardtack. If you guys were going to take anything, I wish you would have taken the Rye King Hardtack. Hardtack is really nothing but unflavored bread that tastes like a brick. And I still got my butter. But my prunes and my macaroni was missing.

And I'm not happy about the pancake flour either. The old man never made eye contact with me. I also had my full box of shells for my rifle. I had my knife, but my prospecting pick was still missing, along with my can of matches. That didn't worry me too much. I can always start a fire with my prospecting glass when the sun is shining, and if there's any dry wood. I really wanted some hot coffee, but there was no wood nearby. I had a good look over the valley from where I was,

but the boy and girl were always watching me from behind some juniper bushes. I really needed some water. All of my utensils were left behind. I opened my coffee tin and emptied the coffee into a dish towel and tied it up with a metal strip from the can. I took my rifle and the can and went down to the spring. I got a drink and a full can of water. When I got back, the young boy was licking over my belongings,

but he didn't touch anything. On my way back, I noticed where these people were sleeping. I was camped on the west. side of the wall. They were sleeping over on the east side of the wall. That first day, not much happened. I'd eat my food cold. The young fellow was coming nearer to me. He seemed curious about me. My one snuff box was empty, so I rolled it towards him. When he saw it coming, he sprang up quick like a cat and grabbed it. He went over to his sister and showed her. I was kind of surprised. They quickly figured out how to open and close it. They spent a long time playing.

with it. Then he trotted over to the old man and showed him. They had a long chatter. I'm going to try and get some rust. It's going to be a long night. Sunrise. I remember when I used to love this time of day. I made my mind up. I'm going to leave this place, even if I had to shoot my way out of here. I could not stay any longer. I only had enough grub to last me till I got back to Toba Inlet. I didn't even know really where I was at. What direction I had to go. I just know I had to go. I made the decision. I rolled up my sleeping bag.

Put that inside my pack sack. Packed a few cans that I had. Swung the sack over my back. Ejected the shell and the barrel of my rifle. And started for the opening in the wall. Duh. The old man got up. Held his hands out in front of me.

As though he was going to push me back. I pointed to the opening. I want to go. But he stood there. pushing towards me and said something that sounded like, Suka, Sukha. I backed up about 60 feet. I did not want to be too close.

I thought if I had to shoot my way out, the 30-30 might not have much effect on this fellow. It might only make him mad. I only had six shells, so I decided to wait. There must be a better way of killing him in order to get out of here. I went back to my campsite till I could figure another way out of here. I dropped my pack.

If I could only make friends with the young fellow or the girl, they might help me, if I could only talk to them. Then I thought of a gentleman who saved himself from a mad bull by blinding him with snuff in his eyes. But how will I get near enough to this fellow to put snuff in his eyes? I decided the next time I would give the young fellow my snuff box. I'll leave a few grains of snuff in it. He might give it to the old man for a taste.

But the real question is, what direction will I go when I get out? I must have been near 25 miles northeast of Tobah Inlet when I was kidnapped. This fellow must have traveled at least 25 miles in the three hours he carried me. I decided when I leave I'm going to go south over two mountains. I must hit salt water someplace between Lund and Vancouver. What to do? The next morning. I did not see the old lady till about 4 p.m.

She came back with her arms full of grass and twigs and all kinds of spruce and hemlock, as well as some kind of nuts that grow on the ground. I've seen lots of them on Vancouver Island. The young fellow went up the mountain to the east every day. He could climb better than any mountain goat. He picks some kind of grass with long, sweet roots. He gave me some one day.

They tasted very sweet. I gave him another snuff box with about a teaspoon of snuff in it. He tasted it, then went to the old man. The old man licked it with his tongue. They had a long chap. I made a dipper from a milk can. I made many dippers. You can actually use them for pots too.

You cut two slits near the top of any can. Then cut a limb out from any small tree. Cut down the back of the limb, down the stem of the tree. then taper the part you want to cut from the stem, then cut a hole in the tapered part, slide the tapered part into the slit you've made in the can, and you have a good handle on your can. I threw one over to the young fellow.

He picked it up and looked at it. Then he went to the old man and showed him. They had a long chatter. Then he came back to me, pointed at the dipper, then at his sister. I could see that he wanted one of the top. for her too. I had other peas and carrots, so I made one for his sister. He was standing only about eight feet away from me when I had made the dipper. I dipped it in water and drank from it. He was very

pleased, almost smiled at me. Then I took a chew of snuff, smacked in my lips and said, That's good. The young fellow then pointed to the old man and said something that sounded like I got the idea that the old man liked the snuff, and the young fellow wanted a box for the old man. I shook my head. This is my chance, I thought. I motioned with my hands for the old man to come to me. I do not think the young fellow understood what I meant. He went to his sister and gave her the dipper I made for her.

They did not come near me again that day. I had been here for six long days, but I would be here. sure I was making progress. If only I could get the old man to come over to me and get him to eat a full box of snuff, that would kill him for sure. People are always looking for descriptions. I got your descriptions. The old lady was a meek old thing. The young fellow was nice, by this time quite friendly. The girl would not hurt anybody. Her chest was flat like a boy's. No development, like young ladies. I'm sure if I could get the old man out of the way, I could have easily brought this young girl out with me to civilization.

But what good would have done? I would have to keep her in a cage for public display. The young fellow might have been between 11 and 18 years old. He was about 7 feet tall and might have weighed about 300 pounds. His chest would be 50 to 55 inches. His waist was about 36 to 38 inches. He had a very wide jaw. narrow forehead that slanted upward round at the back about four or five inches higher than the forehead. The hair on their heads was about six inches long. The hair on the rest of the body was short and thick in places. The woman's hair on the forehead had an upward turn like some women have.

They call it bangs among women's hairdos. Nowadays, the old lady could have been anything between 40 and 70 years old. She was about seven feet tall. She could be about five, maybe 600 pounds. She had very wide hips and almost a goose-like walk. She was not built for beauty or speed. Some of those lovely brassiers and uplifts would have been a great improvement on her looks and her figure.

The man's canines were very long, longer than the rest of his teeth, but not long enough to be called tusks. The old man might have been about eight feet tall, Big barrel chest, big hump on his back, powerful shoulders. His biceps and upper arms were enormous and tapered down to his elbows. His forearms were longer than common people have, but well proportioned. His hands were wide.

The palm was long and broad and hollow like a scoop. His fingers were short in proportion to the rest of his hands. His fingernails were like chisels. The only place they had no hair was on. the inside of their hands and the soles of their feet and the upper part of their nose and eyelids. I did not see their ears. They were covered with hair hanging over them. If the old man were to wear a collar, it would have been at least 30 inches. I have no idea what size of shoe they would need. I was watching the young fellow's foot one day when he was sitting down. The soles of their feet

seemed to be padded like a dog's foot, and the big toe was longer than the rest in very strong. In mountain climbing, all he needed was footing for his big toe. They were very agile. To sit down, they turned their knees out and came straight down. To rise, they came straight up, without the help of hands or arms. I don't think this valley was their permanent home. I think they moved from place to place, as food is available. They might eat meat, but I never saw them eat meat or do any cooking. They always seem to do everything for reason. Wasted no time on anything they did not need. When they were not looking for food, the old man and the old lady were resting. But the boy and the girl were always climbing on something or some other exercise. A favorite position of the boys was to take a hold of his feet with his

hands and balance on his rump. Then he would bounce forward. The idea seems to be to see how far he could get without touching his feet or his hands on the ground. Sometimes, he made it 20 feet. But what did they want with me? They must understand that I cannot stay indefinitely. I will soon have to make a break for freedom. Not that I was really being mistreated in any way. One positive was the old man was coming closer and closer each day.

He was very interested in my snuff, watching me when I would take a pinch of snuff. He seems to think it was useless to only put it on the inside of my lip. One morning, after I had my breakfast, Both the old man and the boy came and sat only 10 feet away from me. This morning I made coffee. I had saved up all of the dry branches I had found, and I had used the labels from all of my cans to start my fire.

I got my coffee boiling, and it was strong too. I'm sure the aroma from the boiling coffee is what brought them over. I was sitting eating hard tacked with plenty of butter on it and sipping coffee, and it sure tastes good. I was smacking my lips, pretending it was better than it really was. I set my coffee down. It was about half full. I intended to warm it up later. I pulled out a full box of snuck, took a big chew.

Before I had time to close the box, the old man reached for it. I was afraid he would waste it. I only had two more boxes. So I held on to the box, intending him to take a pinch, just like I had done. Instead, he grabbed the whole box and emptied it in his mouth. He swallowed it all in one gulp. Then he licked the inside of the box with his tongue.

After a few minutes, his eyes began to roll over in his head. He was looking straight up. I could see he was sick. The old man then got up and grabbed my coffee can, which was quite cold by this time. He emptied that in his mouth, grounds and all. That did no good. He stuck his head between his legs and rolled forward a few times away from me.

He then began to squeal like a pig. I grabbed my rifle and said, this is it. The old man got up, and he ran for the spring to get water. I packed my sleeping bag in my pack sack with a few cans I had left. The young fellow ran over to his mother. Then she began to squeal. I started for the opening in the wall, and I had just made it.

The old lady was right behind me. I'm leaving. Do you understand? Don't follow me. I guess she'd never seen a rifle before. She turned and ran inside the wall. I then started downhill, looking back over my shoulder every so often

to see if they were coming. I was in a good canyon and good traveling. I made fast time. Must have made three miles in some world record. time. After traveling a great distance, I stopped and looked back, but nobody was coming for me. As I came over the ridge, I could see Mount Baker. Then I knew I was going in the right direction.

After traveling a long distance, I finally made it back to civilization. I got on a union boat back to Vancouver. That was my last prospecting trip and my only experience with what is known as a Sasquatch. I know that in 1924, there were at least four Sasquatches living. There might only be two now. The old man and the old lady might be dead by this time. Welcome to the show, everyone. Thanks for being here tonight.

Hope everyone enjoyed the retelling of the Albert Otzman story. And I want to welcome back a fan favorite and a show favorite, Bob Garrett. Bob, thanks for being here tonight. Oh, thanks for asking me, Wes. I appreciate it. I really wanted to get your insight on the Albert Otzman story. You know, I had spent probably the last couple of weeks really researching this story. I can imagine when he first hear it, you know, what's the Albert Otzman story about?

Well, this guy claims he was taken by a Sasquatch for six days. And I would imagine the immediate reaction is to go, well, this guy's full of it. But the more and more you read into this guy's account, you read into what he's saying. for me personally, I started to get the impression like, this guy's telling the truth. There's too many little details stuff he could have known back in even 1957 when he was retelling this story. He couldn't have known at that time. What's your overall take on the Albert Otzman story?

Well, you know, I have gone back to it and read it many times. It's very interesting. I really do, when you kind of dissect the story, you pick up on things that he knows that are actually real. You know, he mentions a lot about their feet and the way their feet, the bottoms of their feet look, and that's pretty much right on the dime. He was talking about them being like a dog's pad. When you touch a dog's pad, especially one that's been outside, stays outside a lot, runs the woods and the rocks and everything, you know, how callous they get, you know,

and rough and hard they are, but how soft they are inside. Well, that's how their feet are. I've, you know, unfortunately, has seen their feet up close. And, but that's how their feet are. and it's kind of like a mountain goat. You know, their feet have that soft underside. It helps them go up those mountains. I can see how they have developed to go up those mountains like that

and up to the hills and in the woods and everything. Of course, you know, they get calloused. They get cuts and scars and things like that. You can see that when you find their footprens. and you cast them. And then when you turn it over and look at it, it's amazing all the cuts and deans and calluses that you can find. But he was dead on with the feet.

That's another reason why I think that, you know, this really happened to him because that's the way their feet are. They're like a dog's pad, rough and but soft inside. I think that he had a real, experience, one that was very unique. I like his story. I do think that what he went through was real. Yeah, and it's interesting, too, you know, as I was reading the story, I was trying

to get a sense of his character, and I kind of think he was a little bit of a wise ass, but I think he was funny in the same breath. You know what I mean? Like, there's one part where he's talking about the storekeeper getting his supplies at the beginning of the story, and he makes a comment. says, I would say he was cooperative. And that's kind of, you know, at first you wouldn't really stop to think about that. You know, he's not saying, hey, this was a nice guy or hey, this was a jerk. One of the questions I wanted to ask you, and you and I were talking about it earlier,

you know, he talks to the Native American in the story almost with contempt. I mean, not really like contempt, but a little bit. You know, the Native American saying, hey, if there was a person that went up, they're missing, and is going on and on. and on about Sasquatch this, Sasquatch that, and he just kind of blows it off. I mean, he gives the Indian a little bit, or he gives the Native American a little bit by saying, well, maybe a thousand years ago, but not today.

And then as he goes throughout his trip, what I thought was fascinating, the very beginning of the trip, his pack starts getting emptied out, almost like something's going through his stuff in the middle of the night when he's sleeping. And the part of that story is he doesn't really say, he never makes one mention during that whole time that he thinks it's a Sasquatch.

You know, he thought it was a porcupine. He thought it was some natural animal. But I thought it was fascinating that they took the pancake mix. I don't see. I got a laugh because I've had similar experiences with. They seem to really like the sugary stuff. They like the honey. They'll take the sugar.

they don't usually take pepper, salt, and things like that. And if you have pancake flour, well, you know, it may have had, you know, some sugar already made up in it and everything. That would be what they do. They know what honey is. You know, I've found that out. And they take the sugary stuff. They don't take the bitter stuff. They don't seem to like bitter.

And, you know, like bitter green apples and things like that. I've always had them take, you know, things like my dried fruits, my honey, nuts, if I have any nuts, you know, in there with me. And they especially seem to like the... peppermints, always took peppermints too, and I can totally relate to that, so I can guarantee you that that's the things that they would take. Yeah, and that part of the story was interesting, too. I mean, they took, you're right, they took the dried fruit, they took the prunes,

and they took the pancake flour, which I thought was kind of weird, but, I mean, it makes sense. It would be kind, there probably was some sugar mixed in with that pancake flour. But they left the salt, you know, they left, you know, they left, You know, I would think they would take the salt, but they never did. They always left the salt alone. And I was laughing earlier after you and I hung up about the porky stew. I thought during that story when he was hoping it was a porcupine because he wanted porky stew,

I was thinking that's the grossest thing I ever heard of my life. It's really good, it's really good stew, to be honest with you. Porcupine belly is good. It's just like a lot of people don't know that you can eat, you know, beaver. You can trap beaver and porcupine and stuff like that. You know, just as long as you stay away from the spines, you're good to go. And it makes really good. It does make really good soup, stew.

And not only that, I used to use the spine. for, you know, needles and decoration on, because, you know, I did make my own buckskin and stuff like that. It kind of sounds like that's the way Ottsman was out there, you know, when he was out prospecting. What I thought was interesting, and just to get your take on it, you know, the first night they just go through his stuff. They don't really take anything, but they dump his stuff out.

And Albert Outsman kind of reminds me of my brother. he's a heavy snorer. Probably, you know, he'd sleep through a tornado. But they don't take anything, really, the first night. It wasn't until the second night where they actually started taking stuff out of his pack. And then obviously the third night, they snatched him up. Do you think they were working up the courage to actually take them? Well, you know, Wes, I don't know its possibility that that's what they were doing.

I think mostly it was curiosity, especially in the 1950s, you know, back what was it, 1950. 24, I think, is when it actually happened. Yeah, I think 24, pardon me. Sorry about that. You know, not a lot of white men went in there, you know, probably not a lot of Indians and everything. Of course, there were prospectors. They probably have seen them. But they were probably just curious of what he was carrying, what he had.

in his bags. And, you know, they have a really good sense of smell, and they could probably smell his whatnots that he had in there. You know, it's hard tack and stuff like that. They finally probably figured out how to open his case or his, you know, backpack. And probably by the second night and took off with his stuff. That's probably what was actually going on. And then they decided, well, you know, we're going to take this guy.

maybe we're going to adopt him. Maybe he's got some more goodies or whatever, you know. It's interesting, you know, when you hear this type encounter, then like what, you know, you and I heard the other night with the paramedic talking about his encounter. I mean, just night and day. But I kind of think we're dealing with two offshoots of two different creatures here.

You know, I think if obviously this Sasquatch wanted to kill him, it would have done it the first night, but it didn't. Oh, yeah, we're talking about two different things. things here. Believe me. Albert Outsman almost had the right type of personality for this. He really, you don't get a sense throughout all of this until

the very end that he freaks out. He's not, he doesn't really tell the story like he's a hero. He doesn't really tell the story like he's a villain or a coward. Until the very end is when he gets scared and he just wants to leave. But it's interesting,

when the Sasquatch dropped him and he kind of rolled down the hill and he heard the chatter. And that's the other part of the story. I was trying to find some sort of reference prior to 1957 where people were talking about this chatter. And he said they would chatter back and forth. It was a really fast chatter.

But I mean, his whole demeanor on the whole thing is fascinating to me. I mean, the Sasquatch part is fascinating. But his demeanor is fascinating. You know, when they finally drop them off, there's four of them standing around them, and they're all chattering back and forth. And he doesn't really freak out. He just basically says, what do you want with me? You know, I've known a lot of those old guys in my travels. Most of them are gone, I'm sure, by now.

But, you know, guys that have been out there since the 20s, had been out there since the, you know, 50s and 40s and 30s and everything. And, you know, they have places that they gather and talk, you know, old cassettes and things when they're, you know, in town to buy supplies and whatever, you know, their whatnots that they need or want. And to hear them talk and, you know, you got to understand their mentality. They've been out there and most of them have been out there all their life. You know, some of them will come in and, you know, they've got places in the city or not in the city, but in little towns and stuff. but these guys, they don't get too ruffled about anything. I mean, you're talking about men who were still fighting off claim jumpers, and even today, you know, people jump claims.

You're talking about men who have been out there in the wilderness, and it doesn't scare them. This is what they do. This is what they like. And to be picked up by SAS College and, kidnapped and everything, got four of them standing around him, you know, gibber and jabber. And if they hadn't killed him by then, I'm sure his attitude would probably be kind of like mine. What do you guys want?

That would be kind of, you know, what I would be asking. And you want to keep a calm demeanor anyway. I mean, he's probably used to being confronted by, you know, cougars and, and bears and stuff like that. So, you know, you kind of want to keep you cool. You don't want to, you know, get up hollering and screaming and, you know, going into hysterics. These guys are pretty cool, you know, pretty level-headed. And I imagine he was a timber cruiser.

And so he had to be a level-headed man. Just fascinating his mentality on that, you know, because a lot of people today, when they run into Sasquatch, they freak out. They go into complete panic mode. And he didn't. He was pretty calm and level-headed. I thought it was interesting, too, when they dropped him off. One of the first things he says is there was four of them,

and the young male and the young female seemed to be terrified of them. And they kind of were basically doing like tree-peaking from behind a bush, kind of watching them. We hear that behavior all the time today. of this tree peeking, kind of looking from behind something at him. And it's interesting, too, the female, the old lady he calls, he got the impression that she wasn't happy that he was there by any means. I can imagine.

Well, you know, put yourself in her, I guess in her mind. And, you know, you've got two young ones that you're taking care of. And here, here your mate. her husband, whatever you want to call it, has just drug in this ugly, careless-looking thing, and he's got all this, you know, new smell, all this metal smell and everything. And to her, he probably stunk. And she's got to protect her, you know, young ones. And so, you know, I had to laugh because I read that part of the story about four times.

and I even showed it to my wife and she chuckled. He was probably getting very, very strongly berated by her. Yeah, I would have... For bringing him in there, you know. I know I'm laughing and everything. It is a little... No, it's funny. I mean, it's funny that he picks up on that,

that Albert Otzman actually picked up on... You know, I've heard other people that have seen these things chatter back and forth. and their impression of what's going on is usually right. And in this situation, you know, he's thinking, man, she's pissed. I'm here. Yeah, she was. But what's really interesting, Wes, is that, you know,

the way he described the chattering and the vocalizing the certain words and everything that he said that it sounded like they were doing, you know, I don't think anybody at that time actually knew anything except for maybe the Native Americans about the way they chatter and things like that. And that's right on the money because I've heard that myself. I mean, I've heard them chatter, you know, pretty close to me. And it sounds to me like sometimes they vocalize a word of some type that, you know, I don't understand what it is or what they're saying. And yes, it's very, very fast. You almost have to slow it down to make any headways trying to figure out what's going on.

Yeah. When he made out the words, what was it, Suka, Suka, and Uke. You know, little words that he was trying to pick up on. One of the things I thought was interesting is when he said the younger male would start to come closer and closer to him. and at first the thing was terrified of them, but it would start to come closer and closer. And you and I talked about this the other day. He, it seemed to be interested in his snuff box.

And when it was empty, Albert rolled it over to the younger one. And he said the younger one, the younger males saw it and quickly sprang up like a cat and grabbed it. And, you know, that's right on with the way they move. That's right on with the many witnesses I've talked to. They said, yeah, it was. They kind of move like a, you know, smooth like a cat, jump up like a cat. Oh, yeah, they're fast. And that would be pretty much normal behavior for a young one or even one of the bigger ones, you know, to have that role to them like that, to spring up and surprise and then, you know, take it.

What I like about that is that he was talking about how. they realized how to open it pretty much right away and get, you know, look inside of it and everything, the way he played with it. Yeah, and that goes along with a lot of behaviors, you know, you, I know you've heard, I've heard, where they figure out how to open and close things. And it didn't seem like it took it very long to figure that out. No, they're, they're smart enough. They're pretty smart. I mean, you know, like we talked about earlier, you know, Rackoon can figure out how to screwing jobs. are, well, you know, they can do it a lot quicker. Yeah, and going back to the behaviors. You know, one of the things I thought was interesting is I've heard this from a few witnesses

where you start, let's say, I'm trying to think of an example, where a person's going down a trail and a Sasquatch seems to be guiding them out in the sense that I've had a few witnesses say they'll put their hands up, like they're going to push you and start walking towards you. As you read older accounts, you read even new accounts and talk to some witnesses that have been in that situation where they put their hands up, you know, like you're going to push someone, you put your hands flat up and start walking, or it starts walking. That's exactly what happened to Albert Otzman. As he was trying to leave the place, this adult gets in front of him, puts his hands up and basically starts to get him from leaving. leaving the area, it gets in front of them.

Yeah, pushing back. Yeah, that's normal behavior for splotches to do things like that. I was sitting here thinking, you know, up north, I've had actually some, what am I trying to say? I've had that happen to me, but at a greater distance away than what happened to Albert there. You know, I've had them, you know, 20, 30 yards away from me, and I've had them put their hands up, you know, don't come this way, don't come this way. You know, I back off and they continue to, you know, use their hand. They're smarter than what, you know, a lot of people think that they are and everything. I know that I've said many times that some of them are really dumb,

and some of them really are. But the ones that he was running into sound like they had a large intelligence. Yeah, it's a weird situation. You know, he couldn't leave, but they really weren't hurting him. It sounds like he had some of his own space, but he really wasn't welcome to leave. And it makes you wonder, what did they want with this guy? what did they want with him? Man, that's something you would have to ask them.

I presume that they were, the, uh, Mel was very curious with what, uh, he had. He was probably thinking, I don't know, maybe they wanted to adopt him. Maybe they just wanted to observe him and keep him around for a while. It's so hard to understand what they wanted him for. But, you know, I have spoken to many Native Americans who have talked about similar situations, mostly with children, where the Sasquatches have actually, you know, taking them off and then actually, you know, raised them and the children coming back after they got older.

But I have no idea what they would want this man for. I can understand it happening. I mean, many times I thought about it myself out there panning for gold in some of those high up areas and found one looking at me or looking off my... direction from time to time I thought about it how easy it would be for them to carry me off how easy it would be for them to just pick me up in my my sleeping bag or my little pup tent or whatever and you know just just haul me off and I can see

it happening I have heard of it happening I have just never heard of such a story as of his, except for, you know, through Native Americans. I think it's extremely interesting, Wes. I wish I knew what they were thinking and what they wanted was the man. I think it was just pure curiosity, possibly they wanted what he had. The young one seemed to be a lot more interested in what Albert had, you know, on his person and everything. And I can understand why he didn't want his...

use his gun on them. He had a 30-30 with six rounds in it, and you would have to probably get a headshot off each one of them, and some of the young ones can be extremely vicious, you know, once you get that started. Besides that, they weren't hurting them. I have no idea. I have no idea what they wanted him far west, but it's really interesting. Yeah, it is interesting, and it's interesting a lot of people as I posted the story and I sent me messages saying well it doesn't make sense

why didn't he shoot them and you're kind of right I mean he's in the middle of nowhere there's four of them I would imagine he probably could have picked one of them off but I think the other three probably would have torn them apart oh yeah and there really wasn't a need

a need to do that they weren't really besides not being allowed to leave they really weren't hurting him in any way no he had his own sleeping space with him. And he, uh, they allowed him to go get water. They just wouldn't allow him to leave, uh, through that canyon. Uh, they weren't hurting him.

They don't, they didn't seem to knock him around or, or anything of that sort. The young ones, uh, apparently they felt, uh, good enough about him to, for him to interact with the young ones. And apparently the young one would take, you know, everything that ostracepated. uh, Albert gave them over to the, uh, old man, you know, to, to the, to the father. And they would jibber and jabber back and forth about it. And it didn't seem to bother him that, you know, Albert was giving it to him. Uh, there was really no sense and no need to actually get violent with them. That right there would seal your fate, you know?

Yeah. No, I tend to agree. I can understand. I'm sorry. I can understand. I'm sorry. I can understand, though, believe me, if the same situation happened to me, I would want to slip away, you know, as soon as I could, because you don't know. You don't know if he's on the menu, if he's being adopted. What in the world, you know, did they want? And that would be on the same things going through my mind. I've got to get out of here. I would be a little afraid. I would be upset. I'd be afraid. I would want to go. I would be looking for my way out. And he found it, apparently. Well, and that's the interesting part. The whole time he's there, he's kind of plotting, trying to figure out how to get out of there. One thing I thought was interesting about the story.

You know, he's there six days, and he never once mentions that they ate meat. He keeps mentioning what did they get. They got nuts off the ground. They went and got, what was it, spruce and hemlock. They went and got long sweet roots, long grass. They ate that. But they never ate any meat, which I thought was kind of weird. Well, not too weird. I'm sure that the adults came and went, you know.

The young ones probably came and went, too. The only thing I could think of is that, you know, they didn't bring a carcass in to their living area to rot and everything. You know, it's not like the movies. They would probably, if they ate me, maybe they didn't need it at that time. Maybe they were getting what protein they needed because they were mostly, it seemed like they were holed up with him. It could be that they weren't doing a lot of hunting because he was there.

and they want to keep an eye on him. I can't really explain that, but they do eat a lot of grasses. Like I told you before, they'll eat grasses, nuts, and ground tubers, and some of the ground tubers are really sweet. And, I mean, many times I've picked sweet grass and pepper grass, lemon grass, you know, I put it in my grouse that I, you know, stuffed my grouse with it. And, you know, baked and cooked my food that way. As you mentioned on it earlier, we were talking about his descriptions of them.

And again, he's recounting the story in 1957. Right. And he says it happened to him back in 1924. But what's interesting is, you know, he's kind of dead on with his descriptions. You know, like the younger male, he said, was about seven feet tall, maybe about 300 pounds. He said the chest was 50 to 55 inches. The waist is 36 to 38 inches. He said they had wide jaws, narrow foreheads that slanted upward to the back of their heads.

And he said, you know, four or five inches up on the forehead. He said the hair on their heads was about six inches long. The hair on the rest of the body was short and thick in places. I mean, he's almost dead on with these descriptions. You know, he talks about the female was well over seven feet tall. She would have been about five, six hundred pounds. You know, in the male, he was even bigger. The old man, as he calls it, was even bigger.

But it's interesting. He said the old lady had wide hips and had a goose-like walk. She wasn't built for beauty or speed. You know, and he talks about her chest, how she could use a bra because her chest is, you know, hanging. It's just interesting his descriptions of how, you know, like you talked about with the feet. He said the feet were like dogs' paws. He didn't see any ears.

They had hair covered over. He said they assumed they had ears, but he didn't see any. That's because they're so close cropped. Yeah, but I mean, his descriptions are literally dead on. They're right on. Yeah, they're right on. Yeah, that's what gets me about the whole. story. I know a lot of people say that, you know, it didn't happen. But if you've ever seen a

squatch and you've seen one for any length of time, especially up north and up in British Colombian areas like that, like, you know, up in Montana and everything, you will see that he is describing to the picture a squatch. he really is and that's one of the reasons that I don't doubt his story outside of you know he may have suited up a little bit of this and that never say but I don't doubt his story because he is so right on

with the way they look to his description of him yeah and his description too of how they get up and get down I thought was interesting He said they don't use their hands at all. When they go to sit down, they put their legs out, and they sit right down. When they go to stand up, they don't use their hands. They stand right up with their legs.

And you hear that from a lot of witnesses' descriptions of this thing just stood straight up. It didn't use its hands or anything. It was in the bushes, and it just stood straight up. That's right. That's exactly how they do it, too. One of the things he talks about is, you know, they always seem to do everything for a reason. They wasted no time on anything they didn't need when they weren't looking for food. And what's interesting is he describes the old man and the old lady as resting throughout the day.

And just, you know, like you would see parents just sitting down in a park resting. Right. And he said the kids were always climbing on something. The boy and girl were always climbing on something or they're always doing some form of exercising. And what was weird is he described, he said they would take. a hold of their feet with their hands and balance on their butts and then bounce forward. It seemed to be almost like a game how far you could go without touching the ground and bouncing. And he said sometimes it made 20 feet of bouncing.

Wow. Yeah, I read that. I haven't ever seen anything like that happened before. but now that I think about it, some of the thermal videos that we have of them that we've gotten down here, they have actually been on their stomachs and suddenly spring up and make pretty good jumps, you know, pretty good jumps, you know, 20-foot jumps. and I can see how they do that. I can see how they could do that. I guess it's just some type of play. As far as them climbing on something all the time,

the young ones always do, from what I have observed, they are always in the trees or on the rocks, and they are always climbing, and they're always up off the ground. I presume it's a safety measure is what I thought from what I observed. It sounds to me like what Albert's talking about is that the young ones were just playing. Yeah, and that's kind of the sense you get from the story that they were just kind of playing the whole time. You know, I thought it was interesting when he goes to get out of there.

And this is something you and I talked about. he gives it the snuff and it eats a whole thing. And then the eyes start rolling in the back of its head and he can tell it is, it's hurting. And then it grabs his coffee and drinks all of that, grounds and all. And the thing starts moaning and then runs down to the river. He's assuming to get a drink and get it out of his system. One thing that's interesting is he said it began to squeal like a pig. like a stuck pig

and that kind of stuck out to me at first and then he said the young boy and then he started getting all his stuff together and he's like I'm out of here I'm done dealing with this I'm out of here so he starts getting his stuff together and he's going to make his run for it and then he said the young fellow

ran over to his mother and then she began to squeal and he started for the wall you know that's an inner that's very interesting that he says that And the reason why that's very interesting is I've had two witnesses on that I can think of that said it squealed like a pig. Right, right. And I said, it squealed?

And he goes, yeah, like one guy walked up on it and he startled it. And he thought it was, I don't remember what, he thought it was a cow or something. And he walked up on it and it jumped. It squealed like a pig and jumped and then stood up on two legs and took off running. And I said, are you sure? It squealed like a pig. Yeah, squealed just like a pig. And I had another witness say the same thing.

He goes, they squeal like a pig when he startled him. And I was like, hmm, that's weird. And then when he go back and read this about Albert talking about them squealing like a stuck pig, there's no way he could have known that. There's no way he could have known that back in the 50s. No, he couldn't have known that. And, you know, they do make a sound. very seldom are you going to startle one.

But they do make a sound when they are startled, when they're not angry, but I guess preplexed. And it is similar than a squill. That's a squill. But what I have heard is more of something you would hear, though louder and more thunderous. And the monkey exhibit at the zoo. But it does sound like a squirrel, but to me it sounds primatal.

And I can understand how somebody would mistake that, you know, as a pig. Yeah. And then I find it interesting. He runs for the Rockwall. He's leaving now. Uh-huh. The female goes to follow him, and he fires a shot over her head. Uh-huh.

You know, it's interesting that he didn't shoot her. I mean, he had the opportunity to shoot her, but he didn't. He shot above her head. And, you know, she kind of had that look of she'd never seen a rifle before, and she turned and ran back inside. Right. Makes you wonder why they, well, a couple things. I think if he would have been there when the old man got back after going down to the river,

in my opinion, I think he would have been a dead man. You know, these things that can turn on you pretty quick. Right. I could be wrong, you know, it could have lent me. it go, but I think he probably, if he didn't run at that moment, I don't think he would have ever been alive to tell the story. I think it would have came back and probably killed him over that. But it's interesting they didn't follow him. Well, I, for one, who has swallowed snuff because my grandparents used a lot of Garrett snuff

and twist their own make, twist tobacco, chewing tobacco. So I could tell you that the male was probably cramping, throwing up, and probably doing other things, too. And probably it was going on for a good long time. It's a possibility that, you know, he just didn't want to follow Albert out of there. And the female didn't want him there in the first place. and I can understand why he didn't shoot her because I wouldn't have shot her either they didn't hurt him

uh if anything they uh seem to accept his presence with them the young ones seemed to accept the presence I mean you just can't you know you just can't I know a lot of people can do that

but me I couldn't do that yeah just a shooter just a shooter yeah I just couldn't do that I think he would have been in trouble if that old man would have been back and he was still there. More than likely, he probably would have lost his head, or he might have got beat up a little bit. I would imagine that, yeah, he would be in some trouble. Yeah, it's interesting, too, you know, he doesn't recount the story until several years later. You know, he finally gets out of there.

Uh-huh. and doesn't really recount the story until years and years later. But again, when you go back and you look at the details of the story, and even my retelling of the story wasn't the best, but if you actually take his written account, it's kind of hard to deny what's going on there. You know, it's kind of hard to deny that this guy's making this stuff up. I really don't think he is.

I think he's telling the truth. Well, you know, with all the, he says if you read, if you read his words and look at what he's saying, and you'll see that most of what he's saying is dead on. Their descriptions, the way they act, the way the young ones are, their feet are, the things that they took from his pack, and then taking him, which I'm really surprised about that. The only time I was ever picked up in my sleeping bag, I was thrown.

But anyway, I really believe him, to be honest with you, I really do believe him. I believe that this happened to him. I mean, stranger things have happened, believe me. I mean, you know, but I really do believe that this happened to him. I don't know why they took him.

I can't fan them why other than maybe they were just interested in what he had or maybe he was just being auditing with him. Well, and it's strange too. You know, when they picked him up, the large male not only picked him up, but also grabbed his pack and took his pack. You know, there was an account, and so you might be right, Bob, as far as them being interested in his stuff. You know, there was an account in, I believe it was Washington State. and this guy was way up in the hills.

I mean, way up in the mountains, had been up there for months on end. Right. And it's almost kind of a similar story. He had his pack hanging up on a tree, and he slept out in the open. He didn't sleep in a tent. He had a sleeping bag.

He kind of slipped out in the open. And he said when he woke up, it was right as his son was coming up, he opened his eyes, and he saw these two large, and he didn't really know how to describe him. He said kind of gorilla, kind of monkey, kind of person, beings going through his pack. And he said one was standing there, kind of looking down at him,

and the other one was going through his pack. And he said that they were taking stuff out of his pack. They were taking food out of his pack. He closed his eyes because he thought he was dreaming and opened him back up, and they're still there. The one's looking right down at him. They don't vocalize her. not doing anything.

And he describes him the same way Albert Otsman does, except for he actually describes, he said, you could tell these were two males because of the genital parts, but they were standing over them. One's looking down at them, and the other one's going through the pack, and then they took what they wanted and threw his pack down and left.

And that was his encounter. So, I mean, again, when you hear stuff like that today, go back and listen to Albert's story, it's not far off. You know, a lot of the stuff Like you said, descriptions aren't far off. Well, they are notorious camp robbers, believe me.

And when you're way out there in the middle of nowhere, they pretty much have free reign to do whatever they want to. But I've heard many stories from some of the old prospectors that I knew, you know, when we would gather in some of the little cafes and some of the little towns, or if we were in Triple Creek or someplace like that, you know, you know, they would talk like that. They would tell, you know, stories about them and tell stories about how they, you know, had robbed their packs and stuff like that.

I don't know. I had one guy, an old man told me at one time, he said, one stood on his chest, you know, with his foot on his chest, while the other one was dumping out his pack and they took all his sweeties. That's what he called them, all its sweeties. And when they got what they wanted, you could hear him, you know, chattered and going off. And it's, you know, it's nothing unusual. He talked to some of these guys who have been out there, you know, like me, you know, pretty much, you know, for years and years and years.

You know, they're either going to tell you one, they're going to tell you one of two things that, oh, I never saw anything in my life. You know, I never heard of that, never saw that. And you can almost bet, you don't want to call them a liar, but you can almost bet that they're thinking to themselves. So, you know, oh, yeah, I know what you're talking about, yeah, you know. And then you've got the ones that will tell you, you know, true, they'll come in your camp and take this and take that. And that's what they do.

They're notorious camp robbers. You get up in there and you kill a small deer or something. and, you know, you got your smoking rat going. You go off because nature calls and you come back and you got, you got about three quarters of your meat gone, and you got all these large footprints around and everything, and they left you about a quarter of what, you know, what you was smoking on the rack.

So, you know, it's not an unheard of thing for them to, you know, go get into your backs, especially when you're as high up in all that lonely country like Albert was. For me, what the fascinating part about Albert's story is you hear either one of two things happens. Either A, they're going to kill you. Yeah. Or, B, they're curious about you.

And it kind of depends on, I guess, the type you run into. You know, I think if Albert was in Texas, and this happened. I think they probably would have just ate them. I've been done with them. Oh, I imagine that that's probably what would happen. They probably wouldn't last. That probably wouldn't have took the time to take him alive all the way to where they lived.

They probably would have reached in his sleeping bag popped his head and didn't carry him off like he was, you know, in a gum wrapper or something. Yeah, and that's the part that's interesting. You know, out of British Columbia, well, I still do get violent stories out of British Columbia, but it seems like the farther north you go, you get more of these types of stories. And then, you know, back then I'm talking about,

and the farther south you go back then in timelines, there just seem to be more violent stories. They don't really aren't, you know, you don't hear the Albert Outsman type stories down in Oklahoma or Texas or Missouri or any of those areas down there. You just don't hear those type of stories. Even back, you know, in the 20s or in the 1800s, you just hear more violent type stories. And, you know, maybe it comes down to, I honestly believe it comes down to the type. But I really think it comes down to the individual too. Because you could tell, you know, in his account when he's,

leaving, he pulls his gun out and fires it. His first comment is, I don't think she's ever seen a gun before. It may not have. He's lucky that the female didn't, you know, keep coming at him. I don't know how to put it in words. I don't think they really meant to harm him. I don't know what they wanted with him, but it just seemed like they were just going to keep him.

Yeah, it's kind of like when you see a little kid with a kitten, you know, they'll grab a kitten, they'll keep it. The kitten tries to get up and run off. They stop it. You know, a little kid will stop it, bring it back. And kind of like a toy, I guess. I mean, I don't know if that's the right word he is, but it's almost like he was a little toy for them. They were just curious about him. Yeah, I don't know.

You can't, you really can't know their mind, their mindset. and everything. You know, there's many stories, like I said, of, you know, people being carried off, you know, by them. A lot of times it doesn't work out real well. You know, the stories are tragic and everything, and that's what they usually are. And, you know, you get a, you know, you know that they've taken children off of the reservation. They've even taken them nowadays off the reservation. but if they try to raise a child, you know, a child is, it's not an adult, and so it breaks easy.

But it doesn't work out real well. Sometimes the child will survive and then come back to the tribe or whatever. But I think that most people that are taken that way eventually, even if no fault to the squad, watch dies of, you know, exposure or lack of food, you might say, or whatever, you know. Yeah, not built for that. Humans are fragile. You know, we've got to have a doctor. We've got to have this, but have that.

And, you know. Yeah, no, I hear you. Well, is there any other parts of the story you wanted to talk about? No. I just I just think that it's quite amazing how well he

described them how well he described the chatter and the vocalizations that they were trying to make and how I really thought it was very interesting how the young male

would go to the older male you know, his dad or whatever you want to say, his father. And they would discuss apparently what Albert gave them. And apparently he was allowed to keep it, you know, and how he wanted Albert to make something for his little sister, which, you know, I thought was quite amazing. I don't know if Albert embellished any of it, you know,

he may have, you know, how them old guys are. but I thought that was amazing that he wanted something for his little sister also. It just goes to show you how human and how not human they are, if you might say. Yeah, it is interesting. You know, with regard to his story, you know, if he was making that part up, the part that would make more sense is to say, well, they just took it. But they never did. They never went in and just took.

You know, besides when he was camping by himself, but when he was there with the family group, he would give them stuff, but they never actually just came and took from them from that point on. It would have been interesting if you would have found, well, I guess his prunes and probably pancake flour had been eaten by that point, but would have been kind of interesting if you would have found the bags of his prunes and his pancake flour there. But, no, that is interesting. You know, you do see some human-like qualities and you do see a lot of animal-like qualities with. these things. Yeah, it's amazing. Yeah, you know, it's the it's like the video I was watching the other day with the pregnant lady standing in front

of this glass window and the orangutan keeps pointing to her belly and tries to touch her belly through the glass almost like it knew she was pregnant which is very human-like behavior. I mean, that's not animal-like behavior at all. I saw that. That was really amazing.

It really blew me away. I watched that several times. But, you know, like I said before, look at the child that fell into the enclosure with the apes and the ape that took care of the child until they came and got it, you know. They have that compassion. They do have a compassion, a humanish compassion. All animals do. I mean, you know, your dog will love you forever no matter what you do to it down there, you know. Apes and other animals, they have a compassion in a sense.

I think it's amazing to watch the animals and see what they do. I mean, so many of them like to have their little kitty cats, their little puppy dogs, and things like that. And you can't know what those swatches were thinking. Maybe they're going to keep him as a pet are just some type of oddity. Man, I have no idea. But it's really amazing what they're attuned to. And what apes are attuned to, like you said, the orangutan, you know. I think one of the smartest apes in the world, isn't that what they say about

Yeah, I think they are at the top as far as intelligence goes. You know, for it to understand that this woman is pregnant, you know, when she wants to fill, or wants to fill the baby in her tummy, I think that's amazing. Animals are just amazing to me, and I love to watch them. And Albert's story just goes to show you how amazing these creatures are, you know, as far as, you know, Sasquatches are. and he's really lucky.

I have to say this. Albert's really lucky that he got taken by a clan or taken in by a clan that was pretty laid back from what I have been experienced here in Texas. They're not really all laid back like that. up north, things seem to be so different. And once you start crossing that southern parallel, things change. And I say it so many times down here in East Texas, I think everything's crazy.

Even the rabbits will growl at you. Yeah. Yeah, I think that, well, it goes back to, you know, again, I don't have one of my garage I'm studying, but I really truly believe there are different types of these creatures and it would make sense. You know, if there was only one type people were describing around the United States,

I think I'd raise an eyebrow a little bit but I think there really is different types. You know, orangutang thing probably won't hurt you in the wild. Most like most of the time, it probably won't actually hurt you or harm you. A chimp, on the other hand, has no qualms about killing you. Same thing with a gorilla.

A gorilla might be 50s, whether it's going to charge you, but most of the time a girl, it probably is going to leave you alone too. As long as you leave it alone, it'll leave you alone. And so I do think there are different types. I really think that if Albert was in Texas when this happened, I don't think he'd be, I think that, like you said, it would have been a gum wrapper that would have popped his head off, taking them, and probably ate them. Oh, I'll tell you what, I hate to say this, and I know a lot of people disagree with me, but I guarantee you at a hundred percent that he would not have survived.

I'm so positive of that here in Texas. After all the things that I've experienced here, all those years, I just really don't think so. Unless he was lucky, we do have the Patty type down here. And I consider them to be the smartest of the types. I don't think that they would have killed him or hurt him.

They may have taken him, but he may have succumbed later on if he couldn't get away from him. I truly think part of what happened to Albert, let's assume the story's true. I think the reason why it went the way it did is because of his demeanor, Albert's demeanor,

like you and I were talking about in the beginning. he wasn't the type to freak out. Yes, yes, I think you're 100% right about that. I think if he had freaked out, shot at him, you know, of course, he wouldn't have survived, but his cool-headedness, I think is what did it. I think 100% is the reason why he survived that situation. And he was very right to, after the bell ran off sick, to get out of Dodge.

Yeah, I tend to agree. I'd have been looking over my shoulder for days after that. Yeah, and as you read the encounter, it kind of sounds like he was. He was kind of looking over his shoulder, trying to just get out of there, trying to figure out of his, trying to get out of there. Well, Bob, I appreciate you coming on the show, and I appreciate your feedback on the story. I really do.

You know, it's such a fascinating story. it's nice to get your take on it, take on some of the things he was saying. Well, Wes, you know, it's always fun to come on the show with you and just to talk with you. I appreciate you asking me and, you know, anytime, my friend. Thank you, Bob. And I want to thank the listeners out there, too, for taking the time to listen to the show. A lot of work went into the Albert Otzman story. If you'd like, you can go to Sasquatronicles.com.

actually read the full encounter. I want to thank Ron Moorhead out there with the Sierra sounds for allowing me to use some of his Bigfoot sounds and the retelling of the Albert Outsman story. If you've had an encounter, shoot me an email. Wes at Sasquatchronicles.com. Until next time, everyone, have a great night. The country faster than the coronavirus and wagering week is your antidote. I'm Tom Barton, and I'm a veteran sports analyst and respected sports handicapper who have a country faster. build ESPN's brand. I've been recognized and awarded by Pro Football Weekly and Gaming Today magazine as the

honest handicapper. Let the other guys give you the same old boring sports talk with the same tired storylines. We'll give it to you straight here every Friday on Wagering Week. Don't gamble with other podcasts. Let SportsGuard Network's Wagering Week help your bottom line.