Sasquatch Chronicles - SC EP:210 Encounter while investigating a property

Episode Date: April 17, 2016

It's a double hitter this weekend! SC EP:211 is coming! I am in the process of uploading it to the site. Here is EP:210 with Dan Baker who describes an encounter while investigating a property. Dan Baker will be my guest, and will be sharing with us his personal encounter. Dan writes "I was a 12 year old boy in 1967 when Roger Patterson and Bob Gimlin made the historic film of "Patty" in Bluff Creek California. I always sat with my mom and dad in the evenings to watch the news. One evening, I saw that epic film of a large, hairy creature walking away from the camera. That was the film that sparked a lifelong interest in bigfoot. Over the years, I watched as many films and documentaries as I could and read about as much. The Internet allowed me to further my research, in some areas but I needed to start getting into the field, which I did along with my wife, Sue. On June, 6, 2013, I finally had a night time sighting through my night vision in Carroll County, Ohio. Soon after that, I began researching anthropology, paleoanthropology, and primatology in an effort to piece together possibilities of just what these creatures might be. Studying early hominids and great apes has given me a better understanding of bipedalism as well as an idea of how it works. I'm constantly exploring possibilities."

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When I had come down this hill, I had seen this creature cross the road. It would have ripped my locked door from my door. locked door from my truck, extracted me from my vehicle, and there wasn't a damn thing I could have done about it. This thing I got to notice in its eyes. His eyes was real, real evil, real sinister looking. You know, the look it was given. See him.

Hello. Get somebody out here. What's going on now, sir? That son of a bitch is about six foot nine, I don't know. Do you see him now, sir? Yes, I'm looking right at him. Uh-uh. A place where people share their accounts.

Let's start the show. Look who it is. Welcome to the show, everyone. Thanks for being here tonight. Got a great show plan for you this evening. I'm going to be speaking to Dan Baker. And Dan's actually a researcher. He's been looking into this for many years.

He'll be sharing his own personal encounter with us. And also his take on what he thinks Sasquatch is. So look for that coming up here in a moment. If you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes. at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. And if you get a chance to check out the website,

Sasquatch Chronicles.com. Become a subscriber. Help the show. Keep going. I appreciate all your guys' support. Appreciate you guys listening to the show. Also, if you get a chance, leave us a review on iTunes.

It definitely helps us out. Any way you guys can support the show, I definitely appreciate it. How's your weekend treating you? I think it's going to be like 85 here tomorrow in Vancouver. It's going to be hot. hot here. So I'm excited about that. Hopefully I'll make it down to the river. I hope your guys' is weekend's going well. Let's jump into it tonight. Dan, welcome to the show. Thanks for being

here tonight. Well, thank you very much. I appreciate it. And if you would, I know you were 12 years old when you saw the Patterson film and that really sparked your interest in this whole topic, but what really pushed you into researching it? You know, I know you had an encounter and we can get into that, but prior to all of that, what really pushed you into this topic wanting to look into Sasquatch? Well, after the Patterson film, you know, like my bio says, you know, it really sparked an interest in me and pretty much all my life, you know, I watched as many TV shows and documentaries and read as much as I possibly could, you know, on the phenomenon of Bigfoot. And, you know, as I got older, you know, of course the internet came along and

that opened up a whole new, you know, variety of areas that I could go for doing research online concerning Bigfoot. And so, you know, I did as much as I could on there and I still do. But I figured that I needed to actually get out in the field and start looking around for myself, because I knew that there were quite a few reports here in Ohio of, you know, Bigfoot sightings and encounters. And, you know, I had heard about the Ohio grassman and things. So my wife and I got together and we started going out and doing things. And one thing led to another. And on June 6th of 2013, I had my siding.

But I've always also been interested in anthropology, paleoanthropology and primatology. So I started studying those areas a little bit, you know, in an effort to try and piece things together as to what, you know, these creatures could possibly be. Well, tell us about your encounter that happened back in 2013. What were guys out doing? And if you would, for the audience, just walk them right into it. Okay. Well, it's kind of a long story. It starts off, you know, in the morning.

We were invited to go on a research outing in Carroll County, Ohio. and it started off on a Saturday morning, and my wife and I got to the research area about 9.30 in the morning, and we were met there by another researcher who had beat us, you know, to the research area. And I didn't even get the car stopped when he came running up to us, and, you know, he's actually pounding on the window and said, you've got to see this. You got to see this. You know, I think I found a footprint. print. So, you know, Sue and I got out of the car and we gathered up a few things and we went up into the woods probably all 300 yards away from where the base camp was going to be and maybe 45, 50 feet up into the woods. And right next to an old rotten stump up there was indeed what appeared to be a footprint. And it was actually pretty deep into the ground. It was about two inches deep.

into the ground, and I believe, if I'm not mistaken, that footprint was 13 inches long. And it actually showed, I don't know if you know anything about, you know, Dr. Meldrum talking about mid-tarsal flexibility and the pressure ridges, you know, that certain types of substrate will present when the creature moves forward, but it actually showed that in this footprint. And you could actually see where the toes had kind of pushed down into the mud from the top down. And so that was a really very interesting footprint. So we were there looking at that. And in the meantime, one of the other fellows showed up with his son, and we were checking

things out. And the other researcher, he was actually, at the time, he was the lead researcher. He sent his son back to the truck to get some casting material. And as he did that, he walked about 15 feet further away from the initial cast or the initial footprint there. And he found another footprint. But this footprint was different. It was only nine and a half or nine inches long. I think it was nine inches.

But the really peculiar thing about this footprint is that it had an elongated middle toe. Really strange. That is strange. Yeah. And so, but it wasn't as, you know, deeply impressed into the ground either. Now, prior to us going there, it rained really hard for about three, three days. And that allowed the ground to soften up quite a bit. So normally we never probably would have, you know, seen any traces of tracks in this area.

But the reason we were there in the first place is because the property owner had had a lot of strange things going on around his house. Something would come down about two or three o'clock in the morning and just pebble. the heck out of the side of his house and by the time he got outside whatever it was was already gone and uh this uh fellow actually had he had a hybrid wolf and uh that dog was afraid of nothing uh but he went out one night after um i guess his house had been pounded on and he he tried to find his wolf and it was cowering underneath a porch and he couldn't get it out uh so he asked us to to come and investigate things. But anyway, you know, going further along down that day leading up to my siding,

you know, we went out and we did some more research and we found a few kind of fresh tree breaks and things. And later in the afternoon, the landowner came down and he had some rather large ATVs that he used to do some trail riding on there. And it was kind of a two-person thing. And of course, you know, I have MS and I don't get around as well as the other folks. So I asked him if he would take me for, you know, a ride on the ATV so I could, you know, actually look around and take my camera and things and see what I could see out there. And, you know, he agreed.

So I got on the back of his ATV and they went up over top this ridge line. And on the back side of the ridge is a swamp. And on a previous outing, one of the researchers in the group we were in was, with him, I believe it was, and another fellow on ATVs back there at night, and it's very, very dense foliage back there. And they were sitting there with the engines off on the ATVs, and they got growled at. And I guess it was an extremely deep, low, guttural growl. And so they didn't waste a whole lot of time. They got out of there. And so we went down and we went through the swamp, and of course we didn't have anything happened there,

but I was able to see what it was like back there. And so instead of going back over the ridge line, we went across the backside of it heading north, and then we went over top of the ridge on the far end of his property. And as we got close to the nearing the end of the wood line there or tree liner in the woods, there was a tree laying down across the trail. And it was probably about, oh, three to four inches in diameter.

And it was still, you know, a fresh tree, still had green leaves on it. And so, you know, you could see like the root ball was pulled up on this tree. And it was just laying across the trail. And we thought that was pretty odd. So we went, got around it and we went back to base camp. And, you know, one thing led to another. And we all did our thing for a while, you know. And then later on in that night, we decided that,

half the team was going to go up and walk the ridge line and see if they could see anything up there. And while, you know, I was back to base camp with the property owner, his wife and my wife, and I asked him if he would once again take me, you know, back into that swamp with my audio recorder because I wanted to see if I could pick up, you know, any audio because of, you know, what had happened on previous outing there. And he was really hesitant. he was scared to go back there. But I finally did get him to agree. So we got on his ATV and we went back over top of that ridge line.

And when we got about halfway down the backside of that ridge, you know, he stopped the ATV. And he, you know, he said, you know, Dan, he said, I hope you don't mind, but I really, really do not want to go back into that swamp. I just don't want to do it. And I was pretty disappointed because I was. I wanted to see if I could get some audio. But, you know, I agreed. I said, you know, okay. And he said, well, why don't we just, you know, go back the same way we did earlier today,

you know, on the backside of the ridge line and, you know, go back to base camp. And I said, okay, well, we started back in about, oh, maybe 50, 75 feet from where we had turned there to go down the backside of the ridge line. We drove into the most putrid, nasty, foul smell. ever smelled my life. And he stopped the ATV right there, and we just sat there for a minute, and, and, and I looked at him, and I said, you know, I said, I kind of don't think we're alone here. Well, I shouldn't have said that, because that really scared the crap out of him. Yeah. So, so he hit the gas on that ATV, and he's on, you know, the two-way radio, and he's

talking to the guys up there that are walking the ridge line, you know, he said, well, we'd drove into this, you know, nasty putrid smell and, you know, it's really nasty and all this kind of stuff. And, you know, it lasted for about 150 feet. And the guy's up on the ridge line said, yeah, we can kind of smell that a little bit too. So we got back over the ridge line and we came back down to where the tree was laying across the trail earlier that day. And there was another tree laying on top of that one. So that was, you know, really, really strange. And then again, you know, there again, you know, it spooked him even more. So, you know, we went out around that thing and we were probably doing, I don't know if ATVs can do 200 miles an hour, but if they can, we were doing it. Yeah.

So we beat it back to base camp there. And we got back and, you know, he's on a two-way radio talking to the rest of the team up on the ridge line. And, you know, he's telling him all about, you know, everything that we, you know, smelled and seen and everything like that. and so the guy that was uh the team leader was up there on the ridge line and he asked him to come up and pick him up on the at tv he didn't want to do it i mean he just did not want to get on that at tv and go up go up in there but they finally talked him into it so he gets on his ATV and he's taken off me i mean he's just really flying so he's gone for about five minutes and my wife and his wife and myself were sitting at base camp right there by the fire.

And all at once, we could hear what sounded like bipedal footsteps just inside the tree line about, oh, maybe 100 yards away. And I looked at the ladies, and I said, did you hear that? And they both said, yes. So I grabbed up my night vision, and right there in the base camp, there was a pavilion. So I walked up real quick to the corner of the pavilion. I leaned up against one of the posts of the pavilion, and I started panning from my right to left because that's the direction of the travel.

And when I got to about my 10 o'clock position, I saw this thing. And it was standing in between a rather large tree and a sapling, and it would sway from side to side and stop. Then it would sway from side to side and stop. And when I first saw that thing, I said, oh my and when I said that the two ladies got up and they you know ran up to my side my wife had a small flashlight and she handed it to the property owner's wife and she was flashing this flashlight up there and she could actually see the shadows of this thing swaying from side to side and in the meantime my wife

was on the radio trying to contact the rest of the the team that was up walking the ridge line and stuff and as luck would have it they were on the backside of the ridge line and and you know the radios would only go kind of like a line of sight. So after a period of time, you know, watching this thing sway from side to side, I just looked away for just a split second. And when I looked back, it appeared to be gone. On the meantime, my wife was able to get a hold of those guys and they were beating it back to base camp. And so we thought that the thing was gone. We really did. You know, at least I did. And so the property owner's wife got hold of the team leader and took him over to where I was standing and pointed up in the area where, you know, we saw this thing in between a tree and the sapling. And so he grabbed his night vision.

He started looking up there. And after a few seconds, he said, hey, Dan, he said, grab your night vision and come here. So I did. And I went over there. And, you know, he said, it's, you know, kind of like up where this tree was and the sapling and all this and the bushes and stuff. And I said, yeah, up in that area. He said, well, I think there's still something there. There's something still there.

He said, but I think it's squatting down. So I got my night vision again, and I looked up there, and sure enough, that son of a gun had either come back or it squatted down, but it was still there. And you could see it moving a little bit. And so, you know, he got on the radio again. He's yelling for the rest of the team to hurry up and get back to base camp because he wanted to try and go up into the woods and get a good look at it, you know.

And so they hurried up and they got back to base camp. And as soon as they started up into the woods to go try and get a better look at this thing, I could see through my night vision some movement, all the branches and bushes and things going up over the ridge line where that thing was, you know, it was getting out of there. And that was basically the end. But we have like four and a half minutes of audio, the last four and a half minutes of audio, where, where that encounter took place. That's an amazing encounter. It's scary, especially when they're on your property.

I think for a lot of people, when they're, you know, for guys like you and I, it would be kind of, I don't want to say fun to have it on your property, but it'd make it a lot less work instead of going out trying to find areas where you think they might be. Compared to you, and I know you're a pretty big guy, what was the size you think on this creature you're looking at in the woodline? Well, I'm about six foot tall and I weigh about 250 pounds. This thing would dwarf me. I would say it was between seven, seven and a half foot tall.

I would say the shoulders were three and a half foot wide, three to three and a half foot wide and probably weighed anywhere from 400, 600 pounds. It was pretty immense. It was just huge. And by the way, the next morning we walked up into the area where we saw that creature and all the grass and weeds and stuff right there were all trampled down. Did it worry you at all having that creature? You guys were basically, it's a Mexican standoff.

You're looking at it. It's looking at you. Were you worried at all? You know, at the time, no. Not, you know, as it was happening because everything was so intense and you're so excited. And you don't, I mean, the fear did not hit me until it was over with. and you know we you know closed everything down for the night and went to our tents and and and that's when it sunk in to me and and I was actually my wife I mean she just calmed out and went right to

sleep and and I couldn't do it I was sitting on the end of a we had an air mattress at the time in our tent and I just sat on the end of that air mattress um for I Lord knows how long you know And I kept seeing this thing over and over in my head trying to rationalize what I had actually seen. Now, you know, I'd always wanted to see one, but I don't think I was really prepared to actually see it at the time. Yeah, you kind of have one of those moments that hit you where you think they're real. I mean, you have a moment, I would imagine, of studying this for so long, where you, you know, you're pretty convinced or real. And then when you see it, you have that moment of, holy crap, I can't believe this is a real. real. Exactly. Exactly.

So did anything else happen while you guys were there? Not that night. Well, I can't say that. I believe there were, after the siding and everything, and it had gone up over the bridge line, we heard a lot of coyotes going crazy. But other than that, that was just about it. So we have, I mean, you know, I'm sure you've heard quite a few accounts of where, you know, coyotes seem to be in the same area as a saucequatch. But that's what happened afterwards. We heard, you know, like a pack of coyotes going nuts. But as far as, you know, the Bigfoot or, you know, anything else occurring that night, no, not really. How long did you guys stay there? Actually, that was, we went for, it was just like

an overnight trip just to see what we could discover there. And, So we went on Saturday morning and we were to leave on Sunday. Prior to packing up and leaving Sunday is when we went up and found, you know, the grass and stuff all trampled down. So it was only, it was only an overnight thing and, you know, how fortuitous for that to happen, you know, because you and I both know that you can go out in the woods a thousand times and never see anything, you know, but birds. And for that to happen was just, you know, miraculous to me. Yeah, it's always when you least expect it. Right. You know, when you're not really expecting anything.

I wanted to ask you about the smell. The smell that you smelled, can you describe it to the audience who maybe haven't, you know, smelled that before? Yeah, to me, it smelled kind of like a cross between rotten eggs and a dead animal. Just really putrid. almost make your eyes water. It was really nasty. And that's how a lot of witnesses describe it. You know, I've had some military insiders on the show in the past, and I know a lot of researchers say it comes from the armpit. I don't think anyone really knows where it comes from, but, you know, guerrillas, they'll have this smell they put out, this scent they put out.

And I've had military insiders say it actually comes from their crotch. It comes from the armpits, but it's actually emitted mainly from the crotch area. And that's, it's glimbing. hands in their crotch. It's amazing to me that they can put off this odor. You know, you hear witnesses talk about it. And I've always wondered, is that odor something they're doing because they're afraid, or is it just, you know, what causes them to dump this odor off? Do you have any theories on that? Well, I think that it is, you know, quite possibly put off to deter, you know, someone or something. You know, there are creatures out there. in the insect world that put off nasty foul smells, and, you know, that will deter a predator

and things like that. So it may be, you know, a deterrent to try and get people or, you know, other creatures away from them. Yeah, I think you're right. I think maybe it's a deterrent. It's some sort of deterrent. I've come across it and different witnesses talking about it. I wanted to ask you, the property owner at the home, does he still have activity going on? to this day? Well, I don't, I couldn't tell you if there's anything going on on that property anymore or not because those people moved out of there. So, you know, I believe after that siding and stuff, and I had to tell you, when that happened, he was absolutely freaking out when he got back to base camp and all that was going on. He, you know, he was just a cussing

and a swar and, oh, I don't have my gun and all this kind of stuff. And, but I think it probably freaked him out bad enough that it wasn't very long afterwards that they sold the place and moved out of there. What did he think was going on when it would come up and slap the house? Well, you know what? He had, you know, at first he had no idea what was going on. And then I guess he had heard or read someplace that, you know, Sasquatch had been known to pound on the side of people's houses and stuff. So, you know, he contacted the group that we were in, and, you know, that's when they decided they wanted to go investigate this area. So he had really no idea what was going on, but when the people came out and they started saying that, you know, the broken trees that are twisted.

and, you know, there also, let me also add that in that general area, there were an abundance of deer kills with their necks just viciously twisted and broken, and their bellies ripped open and the hearts and livers were missing. Also, his neighbor had a 500-pound pony, and the pony's head was twisted, and, you know, twisted around and the neck was broken in the same manner. So, you know, when he started putting all these things together, you know, he started thinking that, you know, maybe this is a big foot. And then that's when he started calling people out to investigate things.

So at first he didn't know, but then he started putting things together. You know, that's normally how it goes. I've had a lot of witnesses on the show in the past. I've actually talked to more on the phone than I've actually had on the show. And a lot of witnesses, they'll report that. But then they're really unsure. I mean, there's a funny story I've told a million times on the show about this old lady out in Texas. And she said that these three black guys would throw rocks at her house,

they'd bang on her house in the middle of the night. And she'd go out with her 45 and start popping shots off. I mean, this is an old woman. And she, it makes me laugh. But, you know, it's funny. It's like, why do you think it's three black guys? And she said that she saw them one night, retreating back to the forest. And it's night after night, after night, month, after month, after month, after month.

And you would think for people in those situations, I guess if you don't believe in Sasquatch, that's the only thing that makes sense. It has to be people messing with me. Sure, sure. I wanted to hear some of your theories on Sasquatch, what you think it is. I'm always interested in hearing people's theories. I know you've been doing this for a long time. And, you know, you've studied anthropology.

You've been a student of the sciences. What's your take on what Sasquatch is? Well, for a long time, you know, I was, you know, in the same camp as a lot of people that believe that it was, you know, possibly an extremely large great ape, gigantapithecus. and I believe Dr. Meldrum was at one time as well. And, you know, of course, the theory is that they came across the Bering Land Bridge during the last Ice Age and then once, you know, by the big thaw came, they were, you know, trapped here. But as I, you know, got into it more and more and more, you know, I started leaning towards it being possibly a relic hominid or an undiscovered hominid.

And I'll tell you why. First of all, and it hasn't been this long ago that there was a scientist in China who took one of the teeth from a gigantic antipithecus, and he did a chemical analysis on this tooth. And what he came up with was that during the end of the last, last ice age, when the climate started to change, the food supply of gigapithecus, the normal food supply, I should say, began to disappear. And in order to be able to supplement that, they started eating extremely acidic fruit. And what he said was this acidic fruit actually rotted the teeth of the Diganaphythicus to the point where they could no longer, you know, chew or eat the tough,

fibrous foods that they needed to maintain that enormous body size and that attributed to their extinction. And that made sense to me. That made a lot of sense to me. So I started looking in other areas and then, you know, of course, you know, I've spoken numerous times to Dr. Meldrum and Esteban Sarmiento and some other folks. and I have a good friend who's an anthropologist. And so I started looking into the possibilities of this being a relic hominid or, you know, a descendant of an early hominid. Now, I just recently posted a photo of Dr. Meldrum with the gigantic Bigfoot skeleton that they made.

Now, in order to come up with the size and the proportions that they needed for that skeleton, what they did was they took the most complete skeleton of a Neanderthal that they could possibly get, and they upscaled it. They made it bigger. And then Dr. Meldrum took the skull of Peranthropus Boisei. and he capped off the top of that skeleton with a peranthropist skull. And, you know, I was speaking with him, and he said, you know, he said, I'm kind of leaning towards this being a relic hominid or a hominid that, you know, has evolved over a period of time. And he said, you know, of course, we all know that peranthropus was bipedal.

And so, you know, of course, yeah, right, it was bipedal. But then I start thinking, you know, peranthropist died out about 1.6 million years ago. We think it did. Okay, we think it did. And for that creature to evolve, you know, in my opinion, for that creature to evolve from a four and a half foot tall bipedal early hominid to an eight-foot-tall gigantic hominid would be. be just unbelievable. So what I've been thinking is, what I believe is there's the out of Africa theory where Homo or Gaster or the, they also called it the African Homo erectus came out of Africa and they believe that Homo Heidelbergensis split off from that. And once, you know,

once these creatures got up into Europe, some went to the north, northern or the western part of Europe, and some went to the eastern part. And then, you know, they believe that there's a possibility that they evolved into the Neanderthals and the Denisovans. But prior to these creatures coming up out of Africa, I believe that there is quite possibly yet another split in the evolutionary tree where these creatures, the Sasquatch evolved along their own lines over a period of hundreds of thousands or millions of years, and they've just never been discovered.

It is interesting. It's interesting to look into it. You know, one of the things, for me, when you look at the early hominids, you know, we tend to think, I guess, scientifically now they put them in the same. category as humans. But one thing I wanted to ask you about, Dan, is when you hear about their behavior being very animalistic, like the growling, you know, I don't know that anyone could really duplicate that growling. I mean, I couldn't. I've heard the growling before, and there's no way I could duplicate it. I just don't have the lung capacity or, but it sounds very animalistic, or, you know, banging on house that's throwing rocks at you. You know, the swaying back and forth, as you described in your own encounter, that's kind of a very non-human.

primate, well, I guess even humans do it, but for the most part, I think of like a gorilla or a chimpanzee, right before they attack, they start swaying because they're agitated or do, would you put these things along the lines of more human or more animals and why? I would, I would have to say that they are probably closer to human. However, they do show characteristics of some of the great apes in some of the, the actions that they take. like you just, you just alluded to there. I believe that, you know, the rock throwing, the tree knocks, and some of the growls and the vocalizations that they make,

they do tend to make you think that they are like a great ape, you know, along those lines. So, you know, it may be something that is still carrying some of the traits of a great ape from way, way back in time. But if you stop and you look at all the footcats that we have, those feet are very similar to humans that is just flat-footed. I have posted also, you know, and then a lot of people think that, well, you know, a Bigfoot has that trait of the mid-tarsal flexibility. Well, yeah, quite possibly they do, and Dr. Melram has, you know, done quite a bit of research on that himself. And, but I think it's one in 13. One in 13, I believe it may be. Humans have the same condition.

Where the front of the foot stays on the ground is the heel right. So it's not just a big foot trait. You know, it can be found in humans. And so you also look at the position of the toes. When you look at the foot of a, let's say, a mountain gorilla, the toes are not all in line like ours are. So it's more of a human-type foot. You know, and the bone structure would be very similar to two hours

in the way that it, you know, is put together and everything. But that is another thing that led me to believe that it's probably a hominin of some type. Yeah, and there's no wrong answer. It's like I always say on the show, I don't have one of my garage I'm studying. So, you know, I know as much as the next guy. Right. You know, you're right. When you do look at the foot, I will agree with you on that.

And I've thought about that before. I have three cast prints right here in my office. And I'm looking at them right now. And you're right. They look like gigantic human feet. They don't look like a gorilla's foot or they don't look like a chimpanzee's foot. They do look very human-like just on a larger scale. Exactly. And if, you know, when you see examples of the mid-tarsal flexibility, you know, you have to keep in mind that the substrate or the ground has to be just right for, you know, that to show up. like the Patterson cast. I think it was Bob Titmus that took a cast a day or two after Roger and Bob Gimlin saw Patty. And he went out there and he took some casts.

And it's actually the cast that Dr. Melram uses in his lectures, you know, talking about the mid-tarsal flexibility. But you can see there's like a ridge in that. footprint. The front half is, you know, kind of, you know, flat on the ground. There's like a ridge or a hump in that cast, and then you've got the heel. Well, you know, with the mid-tarsal flexibility and the ground being just perfect, as Patty propelled herself forward and the hill raised up, the front of the foot actually pushed the earth back and made that pressure ridge right there. And the human foot with an arch won't do that. So, you know, that's something that I thought was very interesting also. Yeah, that is interesting. You know, it's, I just had a guy on,

he's from California, but he was talking about his mom, a snowplow had actually hit one of these creatures. And his mom worked for the Forestry Service. She worked for trying to think of the different names of, she would go out and put these animals down, you know, any horses that got hit. She worked for the reservation. Anyway, they hit this creature. So she gets called out. So she loads up her dark gun.

And at first she thought it was a gorilla. She thought maybe a gorilla had gotten loose. And she estimated the weight of this thing being between six and 900 pounds. Well, her gun would only go up to 600 pounds. And as she walked, she kept her distance, you know, anytime you want to truncleize an injured animal, she thought it had broken its leg. And as she walks up, she hits it with the trink gun right underneath its armpit. And what bothered her when she looked at it, she said that the face was very human-like.

It was obviously an animal's body. I mean, it had, you know, it was, I see animals' body, had hair, had two hands, two feet. But she said that she hit it with the trinkalizer, and then she was assisting another officer. And I'll send it to you, Dan, but it's kind of a long story. I think there were some infrasound going on. This gentleman's father went along with his wife to the scene of the accident. And he was saying what was interesting is he was watching it from a distance. And the dad said, yeah, definitely had a broken leg or a broken pelvis or something because it hit the snowplow as it was going across the road.

He said it would slam its fist against the ground. And it was gibbering and muttering and making all these strange vocalizations. Well, when she hit it with that tranquilizer, it reached over, grabbed the needle, yanked it out of itself, and then threw it. What's your take, though, when you start, I don't know how many, you've probably spoken to a lot of witnesses. You know, when I speak to witnesses, I try to get as much details as I can out of them on what they saw.

It's not a perfect science, but, you know, when you talk to people, I started finding a lot of differences depending on the region a person's in. And it's not exact, but generally speaking, there is differences depending on the region someone's in, let's say like the south or, you know, on the east coast or on the west coast. Do you think there's multiple of these species out there, just offshoots? I believe that it is probably one species with different races like humans. You know, we're homo sapiens, sapient, and then we have the Caucasian and the Native Americans. and the African Americans, you know, and so on. And I think that's what it is.

And if you look at the different races of humans, you will see a lot of noticeable differences in facial features, skin color, and things of that nature. So I do believe that there's a possibility that there is more of a, you know, different races, okay, in these creatures. Now, I can tell you that in my general area, from what I've spoken to, you know, with witnesses, and my wife included, because she had a double siding here several years ago. And I'll tell you about that here in just a minute. But for the most part, people in this area explain the facial features as looking either like a Neanderthal or a Native American.

and I know that there are others that say that, you know, they have, you know, there are some with elongated, you know, snouts or, you know, they have a cape nose versus a hooded, you know, which would make them look more like a great ape. But, yeah, for the most part, when I, when I was spoken to people, I always, the very first thing I asked them is, did you get a look at the face? can you describe the face for me? And those in this general area, those two facial descriptions, the Neanderthal and the Native American are what I have come up with the most here in this part of Ohio. Yeah, that's interesting. And I would tend to agree with you. I would definitely tend to agree with you.

I don't get too many people from Ohio. I've had a few, but I can't say that I've spoken to too many witnesses that said it looked like a chimpanzee. And that's what I get mainly down in Texas. People who've seen them up close, they'll say the Down syndrome. And that's not a great description, but that's something witnesses have used in the past. Or they'll say it looked like a chimpanzee. And then it seems like the farther east I go, the more I get, it looked like a Native American, or it had features like a person or the face looked like a person.

And I just find that interesting, you know, that there's such a huge. huge jump. You know, like here in Washington State, a lot of people will say it looked like an ape. The face looked like an ape. Except for what the human nose. Everyone describes the human nose, the hooded nose. But the facial features, people will say, you know, it goes from ape to champ and that it seems like the farther east I go, the more you get the human.

But tell us about your wife's encounter. Okay. This was several years ago in July. my wife is a nurse and she was working a day shift and she was coming home from work one day. Now this happened at 3.30 in the afternoon right after she got off work. She was headed north on Route 45 coming out of Lisbon, Ohio. And she was coming down a hill that they call ski slope hill near a small, very small, very very, very small area called Franklin Square. Now, this is, you know, out in the country,

and there's, you know, the little beaver creek runs through there, and there's a lot of swampy area, you know, around there also. So she was coming down this hill, and all at once, a traffic stopped dead, and she saw this creature run in front of the vehicle that was directly in front of her. And as this creature ran across the road, it happened to look at my wife, not directly at her, but it looked in her direction. And she got a good look at the face, and that's when she said it looked like a Neanderthal. Now, what is really interesting about this is it stopped traffic dead. There was a pickup truck coming up the hill on the other side, and there was a bridge right there.

What this thing did was it ran up across the road. It jumped over a guardrail on one side of the road. road and then and just a bound or two leaped over the guardrail on the other side of the road and then just just you know it disappeared and uh but it stopped traffic dead and the car that was directly in front of my wife you know you know they had a really good view of it and it scared the holy bejeezers you know out of them and they took all you know they just really got out of there quick and but the pickup truck that was coming up the other side of the road kept pulling forward and backing up and pulling forward and backing up, you know, to try and, you know, get another glimpse of this thing.

But by then it was already gone. But the thing of it was that right after the first one jumped across the road in front of the vehicle, you know, was directly in front of my wife, about 250 feet or 300 feet further on down the road, another one ran across the road going in the same. direction. So she actually had a double siding, you know, at the same time. And it was really quite amazing. Now, she didn't really get a very good look at the second one, but they were both the same color of dark brown, long, shaggy hair. But the face on the first one, she said, looked just like a Neanderthal. And then shortly after that, we tried to get people to come out and come to a meeting that we had, you know, to discuss, you know, what had happened there,

and we couldn't get anybody to come out and talk about it. Why do you think that is? People are scared to death of being ridiculed, you know, and, but I know a lot of people who have come to me who want to remain completely anonymous. They just don't want, they don't want anybody to know who they are or where they are or anything else. They'll tell you their story, but you know, you have to swear, you know, that you'll keep everything anonymous with them because they're scared to death of being ridiculed. And so I'm almost certain that that's the reason no one ever, you know, came forward when those two ran in

front of my wife, none of the other drivers out there. Have you had any violent encounters or have you talked to any witnesses that have had violent encounters? No. But, you know, of course, you always have, you know, people telling you stories of where they've had, you know, rocks or sticks and things of that nature thrown at them or they've been growled at. But I've never heard of anyone having a violent encounter

where, you know, a creature has actually come after them with any kind of ill intent. Now, you know, I've had rocks, you know, myself and a couple of my team members have had rocks thrown at us.

You know, we've had And we've heard a lot of howls and screams and things of that nature. But on one occasion, we were up on top of a big hillside and, you know, a wooded hillside. And up in this area there are a couple northern pecan trees. And the vegetation up there was extremely dense. And so we, you know, we got back out of the, you know, the thickest area there. you know, up where the northern pecan trees were, and we were standing in a small clearing underneath a maple tree.

And all of a sudden, Ray Gardner, who's our senior field researcher, saw something flying through the air, and it was coming from an extremely dense area of vegetation. And it was the bush was probably six feet tall, and it was so dense you couldn't see through it. But this thing was flying through the air and it bounced off one of the limbs of the maple tree and came down and just cracked me in the back of the head. And it was really strange

because, you know, human instinct, he reached out and he picked it up and it was wet. And it was shelled. So, you know, I know, I know that northern pecons don't fall out of maple trees and

they don't fly horizontally through the air. So, what that was, you know, I'll never know for sure, but we do have a pretty good idea. And the thing is, you know, Ray and I both screwed up when that happened because it was the very instant he picked it up off the ground. It was contaminated. So we couldn't even send that out for analysis. But that is probably the most violent thing that I've ever had happened. And that, to me, wasn't violent. Yeah.

No, and I tend to get a lot of my violent encounters, you know, Oklahoma, Texas, Mississippi, a lot of those areas, they seem to have a whole different mentality about them. Like, here in the Pacific Northwest, they can be violent, and I have had violent encounters. Witnesses have described violent encounters. I even had one guy that was attacked. But for the most part, I would say generally speaking, they'll come in, check you out, and then the moment you're,

they're seeing. They generally will walk away or they'll leave the area. But that's not always the case. I know I've had a lot of witnesses where that's not always a case. Do you think this is being covered up? I think that there's probably a fair chance of that. And I know that there have been a lot of forest rangers and wildlife officers who have had sightings and encounters. And I know I have a couple friends who have been privy to a wildlife officer's manual. I mean, they didn't get to keep it, but they were able to see it. And it actually does tell a wildlife officer what to do or how to react if they come across something like this.

And, you know, of course, back in the, during the Vietnam War, now this was an event. Bigfoot, you know, but it's the rock apes over in Vietnam. I know that there supposedly have been some of those creatures captured and brought back to the United States. And, you know, they say that there's probably some evidence in the Smithsonian somewhere. But, you know, I'd say there might be a fair possibility that it's being covered up because, you know, when you stop to think of it, if, you know, they are really, you know, brought out into the open, then that's going to mess up the logging industry.

and a lot of other things. And there goes millions of dollars down a tube and a lot of people out of jobs. So, you know, because they're going to have to protect these things and have, you know, like a refuge area. And so, you know, a lot of the virgin trees and stuff that are being logged out, you know, for the lumber industry is going to be, you know,

really, really damaged. So, yeah, I would say that there's probably a pretty good possibility that they're being covered up. Have you taken any? dogman reports from your area? Well, I kind of, there have been a few people in this area

who mentioned the dogman, but as far as there being a whole lot of it, no, there's not been a whole lot of it. The dog man, I don't know, I don't know if it's a case of mistaken identity. I don't know if there is another homer.

it out there with some type of elongated, you know, face or snout. But some of the things that I've heard of the dogman, you know, actually having the canine legs and things like that and the canine feet, you know, walking bipedally, you know, I know the regular dogs, you know, any dog can walk, you know, for a certain distance on its hind legs. But for these creatures to be, you know, bipedal all the time, primarily bipedal, let me say that. You know, you'd have to look at their pelvic structure, their entire vertebral column,

the way their heads sit on their shoulders because their necks and breathing tubes, wind pipes, would have to come up between their jaws in such a way as to allow the head to sit squarely on the shoulders. So I don't know if I really believe, leaving them all that much. Yeah. Well, it's, you know, it's, there's a lot of witnesses and they're, they're pretty consistent on what they're saying. I hear what you're saying, though, on the physical structure of them. And, you know, one of the things I had a, uh, a kid on a couple weeks ago,

and he had one of these things come up to his window. And he said, you know, these things do have a neck, but it's a lot shorter, a lot more compressed. And I want to say he said, he said the neck sat in a different spot. It almost than our neck. It sat almost in a forward position. It was a real awkward position where the neck sat. But he's, you know, and I would imagine, you know, as you know, from a distance, they don't appear to have a neck.

But he was saying they, you know, Sasquatch does. And he was saying it's very short, very compressed. And it almost sat forward on the shoulders, which would make a lot of sense, you know, for them dropping down on all fours, getting up on two legs. you'd almost want that neck in a different spot. Right, right. Now, you know, a lot of people will say that, you know, Bigfoot, you know, a softwatch doesn't have a neck.

You hear people say that. But you have to also understand that the trapezoid muscles that have been described are massive, just massive trapezoid muscles, and they come up and attach to the back of the skull, similar to that of a great ape. So it would make it appear as though it doesn't really, have a neck, but it does. Dan, I appreciate you being on tonight.

Was there anything else you wanted to add before we close it out tonight? I'm going to be at the Ohio Bigfoot Conference this year, and I am writing a series of children's books along with a couple other people. One is the published author of children's books named Scott Berry, and the illustrator is Rob Roy Menzies for our series of children's books. Now, these children's books are, of course, on Bigfoot. And the series is called Sasquatch Mountain, The Search for the Magic Cloak. And we have, as some of the characters in there, Ken Gerhard is going to be in there.

Dr. Milram is going to be in there. And the featured person who's going to be in there is Bob Gimlin. And so at the Ohio Bigfoot conference this year, I'm going to actually be present. sending Bob Gimlin with the original draft from our very first book. So that's going to be a lot of fun, and I hope people come on out and check out that conference because I'll tell you, Mark DeWorth puts on one heck of a conference there. Yeah, I've heard that I've always wanted to go out there and check the conference out. When does a book come out?

Well, they're finishing it up right now. Rob Roy is finishing things up, and Scott has a few things that he needs to finish up. and hopefully we'll have it out sometime this summer. Let me know when it comes out. I'll have you back on to promote it. And that's, you know, it's good to get the kids involved. Every time I go to any sort of conference, I was trying to bring some footcasts with me

and give it to kids that are there that are interested in the subject. You know, it's you got to pass it along to the next generation. You know what I mean? Exactly. Well, Dan Baker, I appreciate you coming on. If you want to check out his Facebook group, It's the American Primate Exploration Ape. It's a group on Facebook. Cool group.

They post some really good stuff on there. I highly recommend it if people go and go join that group. Dan, thanks for coming on. Always a pleasure talking with you. Well, thank you, Wes. I really appreciate it. Thanks, Dan. And remember, if you've had an encounter, shoot me an email, Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com.

Please visit the website, Sasquatch Chronicles.com. If you're able to become a subscriber, help support the show, keep the show going. I want to thank you guys for being here tonight. I will see you guys next time. Have a great night, everyone. Being across the country faster than the coronavirus and wagering week is your antidote. I'm Tom Martin, and I'm a veteran sports analyst and respected sports handicapper who will help build ESPN's brand. I've been recognized and awarded by Pro Football Weekly and Gaming Today magazine as the honest handicapper.

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