Sasquatch Chronicles - SC EP:219 Squallies – Ape human hybrid

Episode Date: May 15, 2016

Proclaimed as, "America's most credible cryptozoologist," Scott Marlowe, spends as much time in camos and boots as he does in a Lab coat and oxfords. A Fellow of the famed Pangea Institute and educational consultant to The American Primate Conservation Alliance, Marlowe is the first expert in the field to succeed in establishing an on-going college course in cryptozoology at a state institution of higher learning anywhere in the world. His cryptozoology course, hailed as one of the "Top Ten" news stories of 2004 by The Cryptozoologist, a well-known insider eMagazine, has won both accolades and awards for its fresh approach and application of forensic science methodologies to the study of enigmatic animals. Author of "Cryptid Creatures of Florida," (First published by CFZ Press of Great Britain and now in its second edition published by Pangea Press) Marlowe "literally wrote the book" on Cryptozoology in the Sunshine State. Followed by his "Bigfoot Enigma" and "Bigfoot in Art History" are considered must-reads for any enthusiast for the Big Hairy Creature. Marlowe's television credits include, MonsterQuest, Is it True, Legend Hunters, Weird Florida, and William Shatner's Weird or What?. In addition Marlowe has done countless radio appearances, TV guest spots, expos, and lecture tours. Check out the Pangea Institute HERE.   Scott is a scientist and author of many books including "Squallies" (Murder and mayhem result from government experiments in producing human-ape hybrid "Super Soldiers" in pre-World War II America in this period mystery thriller) and "Bigfoot Enigma" (An exploration of the Bigfoot Phenomena and review of possible explanations of the creature from an open-minded scientist's point of view.) Find all of Scott's books HERE.

Five, five, four, four, three, three, two, one. One. When I had come down this hill, I had seen this creature cross the road. They would have ripped my locked door from my truck, extracted me from my vehicle, and no one damn thing I could have done about it. This thing I got to notice in its eyes. His eyes was real, real evil, real sinister looking.

You know, the look it was given me. What would airport? See you. Get somebody out here. What's going on now, sir? That son of a bitch is about six foot. Sir? Yes, I'm looking right at him. Sasquot Chronicle.

A place where people share their encounters. Let's start the show. Welcome to the show, everyone. Thanks for being here tonight. Got a great show plan for you this evening. Going to be bringing Scott Marlowe on the show. And Scott had a very interesting encounter as he was going through med school and kind of changed his path on the route he was taking in life. but a very interesting encounter that Scott had.

And Scott's one of those guys. For me, I just love to sit back and hear him talk. We may not agree on everything, but that is kind of irrelevant. I don't have one in my garage I'm studying. I know Scott doesn't have one in his garage he's studying. So we can disagree on some things, but I really enjoy hearing Scott speak on the subject. He's one of those guys, very intelligent man.

The author for over 30 years has had, I think, total of three encounters, A very fascinating man to listen to. So it's a huge honor for me to have them on the show. If you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. Again, if you've seen anything strange out there, you'd like to be on the show. I would absolutely love to talk with you regarding your encounter. Again, it's Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com.

and I know on Friday night's show, I want to give a shout out to all the members. I don't want to take 15 minutes going through each member's name, but I was kind of a grouch on Friday night's show. Had a witness on. I actually had two witnesses on, but I just laughed as I was reading some of the comments from some of the members on the show. Thank you guys for cheering me up. I really do appreciate it. I know I had Justin on, and Justin had a flat out fascinating encounter with these creatures. He actually had two encounters, but one of the main encounters he had, he saw this creature

actually break the neck of a deer, pick it up, walk off with it. And what's interesting is he said it took its hand and slapped it against a tree. I didn't use a rock, didn't use a piece of wood, but he said it sounded like a wood knock. And his impression at the time was that it was ringing the dinner bell for everyone else. And you know, I love to talk with witnesses. I love to get their impression on what's going on. But Scott had a very interesting encounter, and it kind of leads into tonight's show. He talked a lot about how there was a very large male that seemed to be running the show on the property, and they never really had problems with these creatures. They tend to live and let live. They don't go around these creatures. The creatures don't come around them.

And I want to thank Justin, again, for coming on the show. Again, if you've had any sort of encounter if you've seen anything strange out there, shoot me an email. You know, the littlest things I'm definitely interested in. Even like people see these little balls of light flying through the forest, I'd love to talk with you. And anything odd you've seen out there, I may have heard it before. So shoot me an email. I'd love to chat with you, Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. Thank you so much, guys, for being here tonight. I am in the process of trying to content. Anna Marie Gadd, or Guddard. But she was a Playboy model that appeared on Jay Leno,

and she was talking about her encounter, and they even filmed it. Here's what I posted to the blog yesterday. All righty, folks. My next desk was here two years ago when she was Playboy's 40th anniversary of Playmate. Recently, she was in the news again after she said she saw Bigfoot. She has tape. We'll find out.

Please welcome. Anna Marie Goddard. I can understand that. Now, let's get right to this here. Not gobble, gobble, let's describe, now you're serious. I've been teasing about it, but you're serious about it. She's totally serious about it. Describe the incident.

Okay, well, I'm doing this TV show called Adventures. And the main goal of this TV show this time was going up to the Redwoods in Northern California. And we had, you know, been shooting for five days in a row and, you know, we were tired. Ah, you were tired at the time of the same. Well, yes, I was. So I have to include also that we were sponsored by Arrowheads and Corona. So, you know. So you were drinking, you were tired.

Yeah, I have to admit. I really, you know. It's late at night, you're drunk. But I have a little take. Some guys. The thing is. You saw Ed Asner, didn't you? I have it all day.

Are you having? No, what happened? So, what it was? How late at night was this? This was around 6 o'clock, you know. Six o'clock? Yeah, it became dark. So it was dark?

It, you know, got rainy. Now, who had the... I mean, just the fact that you saw a big foot at the same time you had the camera. Explain kind of how that. Okay, okay, well, that's what I was getting to. Okay, this is... We were partying. Okay, so this tape that I have, this footage was not shot with the big beta camera.

It was shot with a little camcorder. And we just, you know, filmed each other because we had fun. We were goofing off. I would love to see that tape. Yeah. So... So that's why. Okay.

like filming each other, you know, being crazy, having the corona. Finally, you know, we could open those boxes and started enjoying those. Yes, we got enough plugs. Okay, now. Can I just say that I believe you, Anna? Yeah. See? I'm sure that's all the people here believe me.

Well, let's show the footage and then we'll discuss it. Okay, here it is. Here it is. Take a look. Now, you be the judge. This is out of the window of the van. Now, this is, where is? Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Yeah, look at the bear. That's a, I don't know. Come on, Jay, that's not a bear. That's not a gorilla or whatsoever. That's something different. That's Bigfoot. Now, did the guys go out and chase after this? Yeah, the guy with the camera went after it and then two other guys.

And did they catch it? No, they didn't catch it. It was dark. It was raining. It was really terrible. And I'm sure it was really fast. I would have thrown the camera into the woods, the video camera to see what happened. Maybe we should have done that.

But I think, you know, we have enough to prove that this was real. Why would people not believe that that's just not a goofy guy in a group? Why isn't this like, let's scare the girl on the bus? Okay, good, good point. Well, see, we didn't know where we were going. That was the whole point. We got lost. And nobody else knew where we were going.

So it was like impossible for somebody to... Impossible. Yes. So that's why. Have you shown this to any sort of big photologists? Yes. Oh, yes. We have.

Actually, a lot of researchers have looked into. to this when I think it's called cryptozoologist. Cryptozoology. Yes. But I mean, didn't we leave tracks? I mean, it's snowing. Couldn't you follow the tracks? No, it was not snowing.

It was raining. Oh, it was raining. Big difference there. So, no, but see, they came back to the place and they measured how high it really was. And they figured it was like eight feet tall. Eight feet tall. Eight feet tall. And it was like really big.

Really big. 500 pounds or so. Five hundred pounds? Yeah, I think. You know, it was huge. The problem is people don't want to believe video. That's the whole thing. I have all the Playmate videos, and I don't have that one yet.

But I have the one with the Playmate with Locknest Monster, and that's very good. I believe that. Now, are you still, do you still do Playboy things for them? Are you still? Yeah, I still sometimes go on trips for them, promotions, yes. Oh, okay, okay. But I mean, what is the next thing that happens like with this tape? I mean, it seems to me that...

Okay, well, see, I was really skeptical about this first. I can totally see where you're coming from, okay? So that's why we like... Well, you have to look up from my point of me. You do a show called Adventure. You're driving around on a bus. I know, I know. We're drunk in the woods and it's rainy.

I mean, your boss is going, look, I want a story for next week. That bigfoot boss. Now, I understand. That's why I didn't tell anybody when we came back, yeah, because I got that... Now a lot of people ask me a question, why didn't you tell us, you know, right when you came back? And I'm like, well, you know, we just wanted to have some good people look into this and, you know, find out it was really real. The verdict is still out, though, with the experts. Oh, yes.

Oh, totally. I mean, there's one guy thinks that Jeff Muldrum, he thinks that he saw certain body parts on it. Certain body parts? Yeah, if you look really, really closely to, yeah, I mean, you know, his, well, how would you call that? I don't know. I know in Australia. They call it Willie, but... He's so...

Bigfoot is a big guy. He's male, obviously. Male? Yes. It's pretty interesting, I think. Not so much for me. You're probably more from your point. It's pretty big.

I totally empathize with you. I understand. Yeah. Now, is it just his foot that's big, or is it the whole thing? The whole thing is big. Big feet. And you're sure it was a guy. Yes.

know that. Well, yeah. Well, that's what the research is. They see that thing. They see that thing. Probably coming from Holland, not as experienced in that area. Now, tell me about your, you've been traveling with Playboy and all that. Yeah, my most recent trip was to Taipei, actually. Yeah. Good food? Pretty interesting. Yeah. Well, see, the thing is that these people want to talk to you always, and they try really hard, but their English is not really that great. So, You know, you just want to put up your best smile, be nice to them. And at this one point, I was sitting at the table with all these Taipei people. And they asked me, do you want to have this and this? And I'm like, yeah, sure, you know.

So anyway, the waiter brings out this plate. And I see in front of me eyeballs and intestines. And they're like, oh, look at me. And I said, you asked for it. You said, yes. And you ate an eyeball? I, you know, try it a little piece. It's always good to have one piece of eyeball.

It's always good. We will follow up on this. Bigfoot thing. Maybe next time you'll be up there. You might see him again. Okay. All right. I'd love to talk with her and talk about her sighting and that whole encounter, that whole situation. The video is kind of compelling. It's too bad Jay was so, you know, like everyone else in the media, it's a big joke. Like I said, it's all fun in games until it happens to you. Let's get into it tonight. And I want to welcome Scott Morillo to the show. He's been an author

for over 30 years. He's a cryptozoologist. The one part about him I love is he's a scientist. Very well-educated man. Some of his books include crypted creatures of Florida, Bigfoot Enigma, and his newest book Squallies. If you go to Amazon and you look for Scott C. Marlowe, I know there's another Scott Marlowe on there, but if you put in Scott C. Marlowe, you'll find his vast collection of books.

And I have links to Scott's books on Sasquatch Chronicles.com. You can follow Scott's work at Pangaea Institute, U.S. Scott, I'm honored to have you on the show. I've been a huge fan of yours for a long time. My pleasure. Thank you. And I remember I heard you on an interview back, gosh, a couple years ago.

And I remember thinking, I would pay to listen to this guy lecture. I mean, I was really impressed with the research, the scientific viewpoint that you have, the well-educated viewpoint that you have. And I was just really impressed with you. So, again, thank you so much for coming on. Well, I appreciate that. to tell after all the Bigfoot organizations out there because they think I'm a pariah, I won't carry the company line. Well, you're in the right place. They give me the same hard time. One of the things, I really want to get into your newest book and talk about some of your other books, too, as well.

But one thing I thought was fascinating. I know you've told this story probably a million times, but you were pre-med, and you had an encounter with one of these creatures. Do you mind kind of walking into that encounter you had? Well, I can tell a story again. It's extremely well documented at this point. But, yeah, I was pre-med at Rollins College, Winter Park, Florida. This was back in 1975. Rollins at that time was one of the best medical schools in the country. Actually, I was accepted at Johns Hopkins and George Washington and took Rollins instead. So I had advanced placement in physics, chemistry, and all of that.

And I've been trained as a scientist since the get-go, I mean, even since high school. So this was an interesting thing because I had kind of heard of Bigfoot, but I never paid attention to it or even gave it any credibility, obviously, you know, back in those days. And there was a rash of sightings that were going on in the Orlando area. Of course, then Orlando was backwood. if anything. I mean, you know, our international airport was a bunch of Kwanza-Hut surplus World War II back then. So in any case, I finally got my sophomore year. I got off-campus housing and picked an apartment that was way out in the middle of nowhere back then. Now it's still, you know, in the middle of town, off of Samaran Boulevard. And that's 436, which of course now is built up like there's no tomorrow.

but back in those days, it was largely nothing but orange grows. And it came home one night. I had an apartment way in the back where it was wooded in the back, and we had some covered parking in some areas that were just aluminum carports and that old-fashioned architectural lighting that just threw puddles of white down on the ground, but it was pretty dark outside. And I came home one night after some evening classes, and I guess it was about 9, 10 o'clock at night.

I don't remember the specific time, but I had stopped just. before the public's grocery store closed up, which was on Alamo Boulevard. And it just stopped to pick up some groceries and, you know, parked my car, you know, where I usually parked it. I was on the second floor and we had exterior staircases to get to the apartments. In any event, parked my car where I usually did. Just from the minute I got into the parking lot and out of the car to walk over to the passenger side, I had an MGBGGT. And picked up. my groceries. I felt like I was being watched, and then I looked and saw this figure that I could tell was Harry head to foot, standing behind one of the lights where the woods came, it ended,

and the parking lot began. And it was just standing there, and I froze because I wasn't sure what it was at first. And then I realized that it wasn't a bear or anything like that. This was, you know, human-like thing on two legs. And it just stared at me a little bit. I could see the white of the eyes, but I couldn't see much else other than the shape and the fur against this backlighting kind of thing. And as I froze,

it didn't seem to think I was a threat, but kept looking at the trash dumpster, which was off to its left, my right, as we were kind of facing each other, approximately, oh, I guess, 30 to 40 feet apart. and in any event, when I saw that it started looking more towards the trash dumpster, I guess I realized it was more interested in that than it was in me. And every time it changed its gaze at me, I would take a couple of steps backwards when I found my knees and they finally stopped shaking.

And finally got back to very, very slowly backing up, got back to the stairway. And, you know, again, backing up the stairs very carefully with the growth. groceries in my hand, just got up the stairs and got to the landing in front of my door. I turned to set the bag of groceries down for, you know, however long it takes you to do that, just a couple of seconds, and then stood back up because I wanted to get the key and get in the apartment just in case the thing were to charge me. And when I looked back down, it was gone. Wow. That was my first experience. And there was no smell. So, I mean, you know, I've, to this day, everybody says they all stink like hell and they call it the skunk ape. I don't like

skunk ape. I call it the swamp ape. But now I realize that at that point I thought it was Bigfoot, but now I realize there are several kinds of Bigfoot after all of my research and travels around the world. So now Bigfoot to me is any hairy bipedal creature that is unknown or unexplained. And I use the local or the colloquial indigenous name for the creature now to differentiate the different ones that there are all over the place. That's a really interesting encounter because you hear, I mean, I've talked to so many witnesses now, and they talk about seeing these things go through trash dumpsters. Even here in Washington State, there's an area where it's kind of known that they go through the dumpsters in this campground.

They really don't bother anyone in the campground, but they have been seen going through the dumpsters. This must have blown your scientific mind. I mean, because I know you're very logical, you're very scientific in your approach, and then to see something like this. Well, you have to remember, you know, back at that point, you know, physical anthropology wasn't nearly as far along as it is now. We've discovered how many relicominin's now that, you know, since that period of time,

I knew I was looking at some close relative of a human because I'd had anatomy and all that stuff. You know, but what I know now is way beyond what I knew then. But I have known, and I kept this thing, secret for years because, boy, in those days, you didn't talk about it, you were a nut job. Yeah. And you would never get a job in anything. But it impacted me so much that along with the HMO crisis, because at that point they were

converting over, it pretty much convinced me not to pursue a medical career. Wow. So it changed your life big time seeing this thing. Oh, yeah. I was much more interested in anthropology from that point on. And it's interesting. You mentioned there's no smell out of the thousands of witnesses. I've spoken with, very rarely is a smell ever mentioned.

Well, I did have another encounter with Chester Moore outside of Orange, Texas. I'm not going to give up the specific location because he swore me to secrecy. But in any event, that particular time, we did smell them, and boy, they really reeked. But I think it's because we made them very nervous. I mean, they were throwing sticks out of us and stuff like that. So, I mean, it was an interesting experience. It really, really was. Yeah, and I want to get into that.

Two questions I wanted to ask you. What would you compare the smell to that you smelled in Texas? The one in Texas was like, you know, and everybody laughs their butt off. But, of course, you know you've got the bayous down there. And the smell I can only relate to what I know from here in Florida, and it's snow like the back end of a seafood restaurant on a hot summer day here in Florida. Yeah, that bad, huh? Now, I've interviewed people, and they tell me that it smells like urine in a pine forest,

and that's probably true, too, of a different variety. But the swamp ape, it tends to smell very much like the swampy sulfurous water that it comes out of, and it reeks from the algae and stuff that, you know, it picks up, because they use waterways like our highways. Why do you think they lent that smell out? I realize it's just theorizing, but what is your theory on? on why they release that smell? Well, I think part of it is the environment and the material that they're exposed to, and of course they don't take baths and showers like we do.

But, you know, so their hygiene is probably not the best. But the, and that's a guess. I mean, you know, that's strictly speculation. But also, have you ever smelled a stressed out ape in an ape house at a zoo? I have. It stinks. I mean, they naturally reek. So it could be part of its own aroma as well as environmental factors that influence the odor. Do you think it has anything to do with, well, I guess you just alluded to it with the gorilla, the smell when they get stressed out, you know, some of the witnesses I've talked to, the very few that actually have smelled it.

It seems like the creature was either agitated or nervous. there was something, it was something more than just, hey, I watch past it's saying it stunk. There was more going on. Sure. Well, I mean, that's, all that's anecdotal. And, of course, that's not proof of anything because it's anecdotal. I mean, I know what science requires. And that's not to say people are liars or that, you know, they don't know what they're talking about or I'm not trying to diss anybody.

I'm simply saying that science has a criteria that doesn't include accepting anybody's word for it. However, that particular observation does dovetail with something that is known about Great Apes. So it sounds to me like it's likely to be true, but not necessarily so. I gotcha. And when you were in Texas, tell us what happened. What did you guys experience? What did you see? Actually, in my students in my cryptozoology class that I was teaching at the time at Florida Keys Community College,

hooked me up with Chester, because they had seen a T-E-Zoology. show called Animal X that Chester was on. And at that point, Chester was leading up this American Primate Conservation Alliance. And we submitted, because of a lot of pressure from the college, we submitted the class because it was the first time that a class was ever offered in cryptozoology on the college level. And to them for an award, and apparently the students behind my back submitted me for the Cryptozoology Steward of the Year Award, because I had submitted them for the student award, and we won both. So every student in my class, who took the inaugural class, got the award, and then I got the Cryptozoology Steward of the Year award that year. So I went to Texas

to accept the award, and one of the student representatives went with me, although she showed up after I did. I got out there before she arrived. And Chester and Chris, they were partners took me out to a location where they had filmed this episode and had used thermal cameras. And we had, Chester and I had a bit of an encounter, although the animal was not visible, very visible. We knew it was there because we were finding tracks and stuff all over the place. And the tracks were just enormous. I mean, they had to be between 17 and 21 inches in length. And they were fresh.

And but as we were getting closer and closer and wanting to do a little more. work, it started to downpour, and we got trapped in the rain got out of there before it flooded. But then that night, after the rain had passed, we went nearer to his home in Orange, out at night to another area he knew of. And they were apparently living there and feeding in grasslands where cattle were behind the area that we were at on the highway. And as we got too close, they started getting antsy, and then the stink began. Did it make you nervous at all being in that position? No, they didn't make me nervous at all.

Of course, I'm not worried about that. I've worked around wild animals all my life. You know, my kid goes bananas because I had an encounter with a lion here at a facility. And I stood the lion down even though she wanted to attack because I knew what to do. And, I mean, he freaked. But, you know, this was, you know, when he was much younger and was just learning to love animals as much as I do, now he's an animal fanatic and is studying zoology himself. So, and he's actually worked at a facility with big cats.

So he's had quite a bit of experience now, too. But I just, I love animals. So they don't, they don't frighten me because before I do anything, I study them. I know what to expect. Yeah, and this subject's kind of tough to study. For me, Scott, and I'll tell you, when I talk to witnesses, and we can talk about different types and your thoughts on that, But it seems like in certain regions of the United States, they tend to be more aggressive.

Well, let me back up. The anecdotal stories I get, especially down south, when I say south, I mean like Texas, Arkansas, Mississippi, those area, Oklahoma, they tend to be more angry. They seem to be more territorial. They seem to be more aggressive real quick to come at you. And you don't quite... Well, I haven't had that experience, and most of mine have been in the South. But, I mean, I can understand that, especially if somebody's running around carrying a rifle. But even in some situations down there, they just, I don't know for whatever reason.

I seem to get more aggressive stories out of there. Well, yeah, but also take a look at the historical record. Excuse me. If you look at some of the stories that I know Igor can tell you about Russia, the most credible stories about the amnesty is it kills only when somebody has attacked. it or its family. Those are the only real aggressive stories I've ever heard coming out of there. And here, you know, read President Roosevelt's account. Again, an animal was killed or hurt, and it took revenge. Well, you know, I don't have a problem with that. Yeah, no, I hear you. I have never gone into the forest with a rifle. I know how to shoot. I can shoot real well. I just

don't use it. I don't believe in them. And, I mean, you know, if you're, followed my career, I am firmly in the no-kill camp. And that's what drives a lot of the bigfooters out there nuts. Because I mean, I'm radical about it. Yeah, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. You know, and I unfortunately, I think that these things have been shot several times. I was just talking to a guy earlier today, and he was, we were talking about how it would be nice if this would come out and the government would just come out and say that these things exist. And it's just frustrating, you know, sometimes with, you know, there's no pictures, there's no, well, I take that back.

There is pictures, there is video. And I've made that argument, too, in the past. I've said, you know, I got doctors, lawyers, scientists, police officers, hunters, thousands and thousands of people that see these things. We have foot tracks. We have cast tracks of them. We have audio of them. And there's actually some pretty good pictures and videos out there, yet it's a big joke.

Well, of course. Because none of that is acceptable scientific evidence. Right, and the only thing that's really acceptable is shooting one and bringing you in. Well, yes, of course that's going to work because you've got the body. But the bottom line is you don't know what kind of damage you're doing to their ecology, to their social structure. And that's why I'm totally against it. I mean, you could wipe the entire species out of that particular group

in that particular location by taking out one male. if their social structure is anything like a guerrilla social structure. That's an interesting point. I never thought about that before. It's kind of like I was talking to a witness, the same witness I was telling you about. And he said on their property, they don't really have any problems with them. But there's this huge male. And he was telling me that his grandparents have stories, their great grandparents have stories.

They've lived on this for generations. And he said there's this huge male. And he kind of thinks the male keeps everyone else in line. to where they don't come up, they don't bang on houses, they aren't slopping houses, they aren't coming up growling at them. And it's kind of a live-and-let-live-type environment, you know? Which is very similar to the way guerrillas behave. And I don't find that particularly surprising.

You know, the reason Louis and Louis Leakey sent Don Fawsey and Jane Goodall out to do the work they did with those members of the Great Eight family was because he thought that might give us some insight into early human behavior. Yeah, that's interesting. I honestly never thought about it from that point of view, Scott. You know, if you shoot, let's say the gentleman I had on, if you shoot that one that's kind of keeping everyone in line, then what happens, you know, then it's kind of a mess. Well, yeah, I mean, you're going to throw the whole thing into chaos,

not to mention, you know, the alpha males not likely to accept the offspring of any male. So, I mean, you don't know what's going to happen. You can throw their whole society into chaos. And so I just don't, I can't support the kill idea. I mean, I can't even support the idea of calling the population at this point. We don't even know what it is. How can you make any prognostications about what you should and shouldn't do until we, number one, find them, and then that begins the whole process of studying them until we know something about them, at least enough to be able to make some intelligent decisions. Up until then, everything is speculation.

Right. Well, as a scientist and scientifically looking at this, how would you go about, I guess, proving this to, without a shadow of a doubt, that these things are out there? Well, unfortunately, because of all of the hoaxers and the jokers and the, let's face it, there's a boatload of nut jobs out there in the Bigfoot, them too. You know, I mean, you know, and the believers are, you know, are all, it's wonderful that they're out there. I'm not saying it's not, but it's become a religion.

It's not, it's not a science. It's, I mean, with them, it's a religion. And, you know, God forbid you say anything about, you know, I can't take your word for it. It's anecdotal. It's great. It's interesting, and it's a good starting point, but it doesn't, it's not acceptable scientific proof. You know, bring me this, bring me that, bring me that. Well, oh, well, we've got tree breaks.

or limb breaks. They're six feet in the air. Okay, great. Have you taken menhydrin or luminal? And if you look for dermal ridges on the tree branches to prove that it's been twisted, or is it a natural break? Was it caused by wind shear? Was it caused by some other animal? You know, you've got to answer those questions, and you've got to be able to back it up one after another with credible and forensic data that has a proper chain of custody.

Otherwise, science will not take the evidence. They'll not accept it. Now, I've seen the damn thing three times. But I know, I know what I saw. I've been trained, but I am not going to insult my colleagues or the scientific community by asking them to take my word for what happened. I know better. Yeah, and that's, you know, I'm not a scientist, and that's where it becomes

frustrating for me because I don't have a background in science by any means. And so I don't know the scientific method. There's a lot of Bigfoot researchers that claim they preach the scientific method, and I think most of them have no clue what they're talking about. Yeah, they've read it in a wiki or in a wiki or whatever the online encyclopedia is. They think they know what it means, and they have no idea what the nuances are. You know, the wannabes drive me nuts, and I've gotten to a point where I have zero tolerance for it. Yeah, no, and I can understand that. It's just frustrating, I guess, from my point of view, when I look at it, Scott, I get

frustrated with the fact that, and please bear with me because I'm not a scientist, but I get frustrated with the fact that it's like, okay, you won't take anyone's word for it, even though this dates back, how long, and everyone kind of has the same story on what they're seeing, you won't take the footprints that people are finding that is. isn't, you know, a wooden cutout. I can hear... Well, let's make a distinction, Wes. Yeah. If we were trying to prove that Bigfoot existed in a court of law, there is more than enough

evidence out there to do so. Right. But a court of law and science don't follow the same criteria. I got you. Okay. So, you know, I hear you. I know what you're saying, and boy, I share your frustration. but science has a set of criteria and it's there for a reason.

But don't most scientists want, I even hate to say the term one on slab because I don't want to sound like a hillbilly, but don't they want some sort of, I'll give you an example. If this was a bird, for example, and I could say to you, Scott, there's thousands of people have seen this bird. Here's some vocalizations that have come from this bird or claim to have come from this bird. I can't place it on anything else. I have trackcast, and then there's some pictures and videos I can show you. This bird exists. Wouldn't scientists go, okay, we need to collect a specimen in order for this to be,

for us to actually look into this? They would prefer the specimen because then they can write a proper scientific description that they can publish about what the animal is. That's basically the key. Now, they can do that today. With all that evidence, assuming that you have all these different parts that dovetailed together that have all been properly collected and have been cataloged and put together and verified and attested to and yada, yada, yada, provided you have the DNA to support it. I gotcha. Okay.

So, I mean, and they pretty much went through this with the billy ape, which is actually, or Bondo ape, some people like to call it, in Africa. which really is one of the African Bigfoot. So when people tell you that a Bigfoot has not been discovered, they're full of what makes the grass grow green, they have been. The Billy ape is an ape from the Congo that was unexplained. It was misclassified. They knew what it was 100 years ago. They have the bones sitting on top of a shelf in a museum in the Congo

for 100 years before somebody took a look at them again and realize that it's a different species of chimpanzee, but it's larger than a gorilla. Yeah, and the Billy ape actually walks upright most of the time, doesn't it? That's correct, because it lives in a swampy environment. It has to drown. Yeah. So, I mean, which tends to support Elaine Morgan and Alistair Hardy's, you know,

aquatic ape hypothesis as to how humans develop the bipedalism, yada, yada, yada, I can get into all the anthropological explanations, but that's just going to bore people to death. So, you know, we probably shouldn't go into that because that's just not a layperson thing. I go into that when I teach my classes, but on the radio, it's very hard to explain, and then people listen to sound bites and take it all out of context and misconstrue it, and they get it all wrong. So I'd rather not be accused of that.

No, no, and that's okay. I wanted to ask your opinion on the different types, and again, I guess this is a non-scientific conversation in the sense that, I'll give you an example. I know, like, the farther east I go, like, especially the northeast, when I talk to witnesses, and I realize, again, this is anecdotal stories, but when I talk to witnesses, I seem to get more of, it looked like a human in the face. Keep in mind, it seemed like a great ape's body, but the face was very human-like. And you get down south, like Oklahoma, that area, Texas, I get a lot of reports of, well, it didn't look like a human, and it looked like a chimpanzee with the humans with the hooded nose,

but it looked like a very large chimpanzee on steroids. Here again is the reason why I'm considered a pariah. You know, the skeptics out there are saying, well, let's prove that a bigfoot exists before you start saying there's more than one kind. No, I am certain because of some of those things and the similarities that there is more than one type of Bigfoot out there. And scientifically, wouldn't that make sense that there would be more than one type based on... Sure it does. Read my book Bigfoot Enigma. It speaks to that issue specifically.

I've even put together with the help of the illustrator who helped me with that book, Peter Lowe, put together a tentative. Tenitive. Again, it's speculating. A tentative taxonomic chart to show how the animal might be related to giganticus Blackie, but a different branch of the same group, based on the latest physical anthropology research. I'm not sure that the Russians and Dr. Meldrum are not correct and that some of them might be relic hominins that have survived. It's possible. Yeah, no, and one of the things I know a lot of the people say when they say it's a relic hominid, it's an ancient man, when they go into that theory, and it's one thing that's hard for me to argue is, and I got

trackcasts here in my office, when you look at them, they look like human feet. They don't really look like a gorilla's foot. And that's one of the most important things, because if you accept that at least some of the track evidence that Jimmy Chilcott has signed off on, for example, that we know we're not hoaxes and are anatomically correct for the type of animal it's supposed to it. It makes sense that it's human because the only great ape, and now here we go, because I have to use the E word, and you know, you know that people are going to come out of the woodwork because I don't believe in evolution.

But the only great ape to which man belongs phylogenically, okay, the only great ape with parallel toes is the human species, the genus Homo, and the closely related anthro uh... oh god my mind just went completely curfluy the anthroposemes when you're looking into these different reports and I know you have

Scott you've looked into a lot and you've done some great research in the field and that's the other thing I don't understand why you're not more recognized than what you are because I'm not loud about it and I'm not a media hound yeah but you know it's like I said I would pay to listen to you a lecture on some of this I'd love to go to one of your lectures

when you're looking into the subject, what do you think Bigfoot is? I mean, are we talking about in your mind, and again, I know we're theorizing here for people listening, it's not, nothing's ever set in stone, but do you think we're looking at like a proto-primate, some sort of great ape, like you mentioned with the offshoot of gigantapithecus? Do you think we're dealing with an early man? I mean, what is your personal opinion on it? Well, here's the kick in the head. I think everybody's right.

And what do you mean when he said that? Well, I think some of the animals are probably related to, if not descendants, of Shoddicmanicus, Diganopithecus Blackie. So there's my nod to Grover Krantz. I think that a different branch of the same genus group is responsible for the swamp ape. But it evolved, the swamp ape evolved from the Oriopithecus, which went west. from Africa, as opposed to going east from Africa like the giganticifices did. Follow me? I do. And you're talking about, are you talking about the Atlantic land bridge coming over from there?

Yes. We know that their fossil remains have been found in the Mediterranean basin. We know that the Vikings and some of the Gauls from France in that area, the Clovis people, made it to North America going the going west from Europe. Now, I'm not saying they traveled with them, but they could follow the same path. But you also have to remember, Oriopithecus evolved into an upright walking ape four and a half million years before Lucy, our nearest relative, to walk upright. And wasn't Oriopithecus? Yes, wasn't that known as a primate that actually swam that was more into the water?

Yes, it was an aquatic ape. I mean, it makes sense. You know, Europe and America were much closer together. The water level has changed dramatically. So the evidence of their migration would be under 80 feet of water now. Yeah, and that part's fascinating to me. You know, I'm sure you've heard of reports of Sasquatch swimming. Yeah, I have. And the swamp ape is reported swimming a lot down here.

Yeah, it's interesting. Even where I'm at, you know, the Columbia River, there's this old woman that lived next to the Columbia River, and everyone thought she was crazy, but she said that the apes would swim across the Columbia at this one spot. Well, as I said early in the broadcast, they use rivers, lake, streams, and waterways as their highway. So, yeah, of course they can swim. Yeah, and then the people who think that monkeys, but chimpanzees, orangutans, and the other great apes don't swim are nuts. They do.

they don't necessarily like water but they do and i've got plenty of pictures that i've taken in africa to prove it no i i know i've seen it on youtube i've seen them swim yeah so i mean you know you there's so many misnomer's out there and this is this is my point you've got to know what your quarry is to know what they're capable of before you go out and try to do anything now if you want to make contact okay uh those people are talking about habituation i agree but Who's doing habituation studies out there where they're actually living in that area like Dion Fawsey did and Jane Goodall did, perpetually until they make contact? No one.

Nobody. Yeah, no one. You can't come and go as you want to and expect that they're going to adapt to you. Do you think these creatures, in your own personal opinion, do you think they would adapt to man being in the same area? Absolutely. As long as we don't pose a threat, we don't threaten their, they're awful. offspring, we don't threaten their food supply, they have no reason to dislike us or worry about us. And they will eventually, because they're like all mammals, they learn by observation.

That much we know, that much we can be certain of. They're watchers. And I'm not talking about the biblical watchers. Don't mistake that. But they observe, and they make their decisions based on their observations. Yeah, I tend to agree. It's me and another witness, we're just talking before you came on, Scott, and he was saying his grandfather told him, don't point a gun at it, and you should be okay. And so, and he was kind of wondering, well, how does this thing know what a gun is?

And you're right, it's just through observation. They've seen it. They've seen what these things can do, I'm assuming. No, I'm sure. Look at all the hundreds of years they've had to learn. I mean, one of the books that I wrote that you neglected to mention, which I'm sure was an oversight, was Bigfoot in art history. I did see that one, actually. I didn't mention it because you have so many books, but yet that is one I actually wanted to get. Well, that's a little highbrow for most people. But if you follow the development of the art from the beginnings of it up until a period of time when I stopped the book because I'm planning a second volume, you're going to,

going to see that the acceptance of the creature changed over that period of time, that a couple of millennia. At the beginning, they were treated just like they were one of us, but as people differentiated, something happened, and they were more relegated to the background, apparently because they began to get persecuted or shunned. And then, of course, in the medieval time, people with hypertricosis and oddities like that, it became circus side show type stuff, and they were kept in cages, and, you know, you know, the Zana story, too. Yeah. And that's not Middle Ages. That was 19th century.

So, you know, why would they want to have anything to do with it? We haven't done anything of them, but turned them into a curiosity and can find them when we find them. Well, and what's interesting, and I don't know what you would do with some of these reports, Scott. I've had people on the show. I'll give you an example. I had a guy one time who just bought a cabin out in the middle of nowhere. and he is constantly being harassed by these things. And he sent me pictures of tracks.

He sent me, actually sent me some pretty good photos I'll send to you, what appears to be an ape sitting in the brush looking at him. But he says that he, ever since he moved into this property, the house gets slapped, they'll come up to the windows and growl at him. They'll try and turn the doorknobs. Just very aggressive behavior. Every time he goes out to his car, he's getting something thrown at him. And I don't know if that's more of a territory.

display, but really what advice do you give to a guy like that? You know, and this guy's terrified. Well, it's easy. All he's got to do is start gifting them. Like with food? Yeah. Now, I'm not crazy about the idea, but

he has to become their friend. Much as Diane Fawsey became associated with and friendly with them, they realized, the guerrillas realized, that she was no threat to them. And then they had no problem sharing their space with her. But, you know, he's coming into their home, making himself at home.

And, I mean, how would you feel if somebody you didn't know come, walked right in your front door and said, here I am, live with it? Yeah, I guess I can understand that. But, I mean, that's not real scientific. I mean, you're kind of changing that animal's behavior, aren't you? By feeding it? I'll give an example. There's a guy that was in the military, and he did that exact same thing.

He was feeding these things. and then he left on deployment. Well, guess what happened when he left on deployment? Everything on his property got destroyed. The goats had their neck snapped. I mean, this thing went on a rampage. You don't really suggest that to people, do you? Yeah, of course, they were looking for the food.

They became accustomed to it. That should have been expected. But would you really advise someone to do that to feed these things? Well, I don't like the idea, but I'm saying that's the only way you're going to make friends with them. you've got to provide them with something that they don't have and show them that you're no threat. Now, I'm not crazy about the food solution, but it's really the only thing available to you. What else can you do? I mean, it's not like they're going to wind up getting into trouble, and you help them out.

That's a great story for Harry and the Henderson, but that's not the way real life works. Yeah. And if you tried to approach one, if they had a child in danger, they'd tear you limb from limb. Right. Well, the other question I want to ask you, from a scientific point of view, I have a lot of people in the show that they're like, hey, I got hair samples, I got this, I got that, what do you do with this stuff? You know, where do you, do I even bother? Well, if you got hair samples and they're not, you know, the problem is you got to collect it correctly and put it in the proper type of container because otherwise you're going to contaminate the hair. But, you know, you have the hair DNA analyzed.

You don't need hair follicles anymore. They can, you know, with recombinant DNA, they can separate the DNA, amplify, reproduce it, come up with a genome off the hair sample. But, again, the problem is most people have no idea how to properly collect this type of evidence forensically so that they do not corrupt it, so that it is available to be tested properly without contamination. This, of course, is the problem. with the Ketcham study. There's no chain of custody. There's no way to guarantee that anything was not

mishandled. And I can't even begin to speak to the laboratory issues because what I've read thus far is so full of holes, it would never be acceptable. Plus, the fact you have absolutely no idea. You've got a whole bunch of strangers submitting samples. How do you know where those samples came from? Are they telling you the truth? No. I'm sure. Many of them didn't. Yeah, through DNA, can't they take out the human, you know, when you corrupt a piece of DNA? Can't they take that out? Well, that depends on what the animal turns out to be, doesn't it?

Suppose it is a closely related human species. Yeah, you got a good point. One of the reasons why a lot of these things may be coming back as, quote, contaminated, unquote, is because they're exactly what they're supposed to be. Yeah, I've thought about that too before. You're right. I mean, only recently has the our human genome been completely mapped. I think now we've finally got a Neanderthal genome.

But they've got to map out all the genomes from all these animals so that they know what's different. I got you. Well, it's good advice. You know, a lot of people ask me that, and they say, well, what do you do with something like this? You know, I have this stuff going on on my property. I mean, what do I do with it? I mean, even you can get DNA even from the residue left behind. When dermal ridges are left on a smooth surface, for example.

Now, everybody who watches television and CSI and all of that nonsense knows all about what luminal is. What's liminal? Luminol is a reagent that reacts with the body chemistry in the oils that you leave behind when you touch something, fingerprints or footprints, either one. And it makes it glow under a black light so that it's easily seen in photographs. to create evidence. Oh, interesting. But the luminal itself is highly toxic. They never show them applying it properly on television, and it destroys DNA.

So if you use it, you're contaminating the DNA that you would otherwise be able to extract. There is another forensic reagent called Blue Star that is much safer to handle, does the same thing. It requires a little more skill in being able to interpret the results. but it doesn't destroy the DNA. So, I mean, these are all the little details that, you know, when you take a cryptozoology class that's being properly taught, you're going to learn. Yeah. No, I wish I was in Florida.

I'd love to go to it. Well, I taught it online, too, so that it was available to people. And, you know, I'm thinking about doing it now. I've been asked to do it online by an Australian university group, and I'm thinking seriously about it. Yeah, if you do, well, you let me know. I'd like to attend it. Sure will. Sure will.

I wanted to ask you about the book Squallies. And being a scientific guy, the reason why you wrote that book, and I want to ask you a question about the dogman later. But for the audience, what is the book Squallies about? What can they expect when they pick up this book? Well, another possible explanation for some of the so-called swamp ape sightings or skunk-ape sightings here in Florida that's based on some eugenics work that was being done here in Florida. I mean, everybody knows about Stalin working with, because it's been all over the TV, Stalin working to hybridize apes and humans back in the 1920s. We conducted similar experiments from the late 20s to the 30s once we got word of what Stalin was doing.

Now, theoretically, we were successful, but that's probably all Cold War propaganda. But the evidence is difficult to come by because it's still classified. This was all part and parcel of the eugenics work that was being done in that time frame. Now, eugenics was what the Nazis were practicing, trying to create a master race. The problem with the master race concept, and of course you see this with the concentration camps and the things that Hitler wound up doing, is once you have a master race of all leaders, who's going to do all the work?

Right. And, of course, that was one of the issues. So this hybridization program that they were trying to do, engineering slave race is essentially what they were doing, came about because of it. And Rockefeller and Harriman and Carnegie and the bushes and all these big wigs, back in those days, were all behind it and financing it.

And actually, all of the ideas that Hitler wound up tweaking into his final solution, believe it or not, started here in the United States in the 20s and 30s, under a gentleman by the name of Charles Davenport. Davenport was huge into Eugenics, and most of that came from him, didn't it? That's correct. So he was an American, not. a Nazi, although his behavior was. In any event, so they were trying to create a race of soldiers so that there'd be somebody to fight their wars other than the master race.

And that's what the book Squallies is about. That's what a Squally is. Yes, exactly. That's the undercurrent in the book. And theoretically, as I said, they were successful at doing it, and they developed a colony of these creatures that supposedly lives in the Everglades, and has for some time now, and their progeny apparently still lives in the Everglades, according to the legend, and some of the recent sightings and encounters that they've had. When I got involved in this thing and was told the story, I became fascinated by it, because today it probably could be done with what we know about genetics, but back then I doubt it. On the other hand, some of the experiments that they were preparing to do in Russia were never carried out.

The first attempts were a failure, of course. But the second approach that the gentleman who was doing it wanted to undertake wasn't done. He was thrown in his gulag. Stalin got tired of paying for no results. But the bottom line is we may have pulled it off. I don't know. I do know that when I got involved after I had learned all the main characters in the story, and I started researching those characters, all of the material dovetailed.

And I mean so neatly that I couldn't find a hole in it. But I could not claim that these animals were real. I could not claim a sighting. We tried to go find them, and we did find a place with all kinds of weird noises, and things coming out there at night, but there was no way for me to verify anything. And I didn't really want M.I.B. showing up at my door if I happened to hit it. So I wrote what amounts to be a fictionalized version based on fact.

While the story itself is completely true, and all the people in it are completely real, and if you do the research on the individuals, you're going to find what I found. But I've got to give you two things that are really cool. crazy here. How should I put this? Well, for one thing, the Monroe station, which was figured centrally in this story,

was a surviving relic of the time frame that this took place in, which is 1931. And Al Capone and his bootlegging gang and all of the Glades people that were associated with it all figure into all this. But the issue is

as soon as my story came out, and people knew about it because it had hit the radio. Guess what burned to the ground? What's up? Monroe Station. Really? So if there was any evidence in there, the evidence is gone.

Now that's interesting. Very. And I've had other things that have been snatched away from me since. So I have a feeling I got too close to the mark with the story. But the only thing in the story that is not absolutely true, although it probably took place in something similar with the dialogue between the characters. Because I wasn't there. How would I know what the dialogue was?

Right, right. But I know what the events were, and I know what the actions were based on the research. So all of that's true. Yeah, that's interesting. So are you thinking, and I got a couple things I can tell you about that, but I wanted to ask you, do you think, so the government probably knew about these creatures and pre-World War II, They were, hey, let's mix this. We know about Sasquatch.

Let's try and mix this with human DNA and create these super soldiers. I mean, Stalin's doing it. You can best guarantee almost every nation on the planet's probably trying to do the same thing. Well, China's tried to do it subsequent to all this, too. Do you think a mixed, do you think a Squally is basically a mix between a Sasquatch and a person? I don't know. That's a good question. Is it possible Bigfoot is engineered?

I don't know. It's possible. I gotcha. Is it possible the Monkeyman, which I spoke to when I did the show with Bill Shatner? Weird or what? Is that, you know, and I said it in that story. I mean, I was essentially telling Squallies on the basis of the Monkey Man story that was coming out of India at the time when I did that for Bill. Yeah, it's just fascinating.

I know I've talked to a lot of military insiders, and the last one actually sent me all her military credentials. And she's saying this has been going on for a long time. they've been engineering and creating subspecies of Bigfoot. And I asked her, well, why are they doing that? And she went into a lot of things, Scott. I could tell you that, you know, seemed crazy. You know, she was saying, well, there's a place they go. They call it the zoo.

And it's where they've been mixing DNA with different things, trying to just see what they can create. And sometimes they let them loose out in the woods. And I asked, well, why do they let them loose? And she said, well, they track them, but they do better outside of the laboratory. And so that's kind of the theory behind it. But they were trying to weaponize these things. And we got in a conversation about the dogman. And before I used to always blow off the dog man until I really started listening to a lot of witnesses. And witnesses that don't know each other.

Yeah. And they're very consistent on what they're talking about. And when her and I were talking, she said it's a genetically engineered freak show. That's basically what the dog man is. It's not a natural creation. It's something that's been modified and created. And I want to know what your take on that was. Well, I don't dismiss anything because of the genetics that we're able to do today. And what they announce is probably a microcosm compared to what they can actually pull off. Don't forget, I've been involved with some of the guys who were trying to clone mammoths. I've actually provided samples that we found in fossils down here of Colombian mammoths for them to clone. So, I mean, I know the genetics. I've been separating DNA from E. coli cells and other

tissues since I was in high school. Yeah, so it's really hard to rule this stuff out. Well, I mean, here's a thought, and I'm going to give a little nod to the UFO people out here, because I don't really buy all the UFO nonsense, but whatever. Suppose they did. Suppose the Ananaki stories are true. Is it possible? And this, again, it's speculation. I'm not telling everybody to grab it and go run into the hills to shout it because it's just a theory, an idea. Not even that. It's a hypothesis. Is it possible that Bigfoot is what humans would be if they hadn't engineered humans? That's an interesting thought. I never thought of that before.

I mean, you know, the Hopi have these have legends similar to the, you know, Assyrians or the Samarians. Yeah. Okay. I mean, you know, some of these things have, have such incredible similarity, it's more than a coincidence. Yeah, I tend to agree with you on that. I tend to agree. It's even, you know, from thousands of years from one group that's on the other side of the planet is basically describing the same thing. You know, there's no way they could have known. I agree with you on that. There's too many coincidences for it. Well, read my buddy Rick Osmond's book, Secret of the Golden Bear, or something like that.

I can't remember the name of the book, but I know Golden Bear is in it, or the caves of the Golden Bear. I think that's it. You know, there is no question in my mind, and it was before I even read his book, that there have been more advanced civilizations on the planet before us. and there's no question in my mind that the so-called primitive ancients were far better traveled than we give them credit for. Now, how they got from point A to point B is anybody's guess until there's some evidence provided. But the fact that they were here is all over the place. There's evidence everywhere. And that's honestly where I have a hard time with evolution.

You know, the whole caveman theory, and we just kind of came from, we evolved from apes, And, you know, you go back, you look at stuff the Egyptians were doing, stuff the, you know, all these ancient cultures. Let me back up. Let me back up. We didn't evolve from apes. We evolved with apes. That's the common misconception, and that's what drives all of the anti-evolution is crazy. We did not evolve from a monkey. We all evolved, or from a, from a chimpanzee. We all evolved from a more primitive life form and branched off in different directions because of genetic mutation. And DNA has proven it, beyond the shadow of doubt. It's no longer a theory. It's a fact. It's supported by evidence. You know, I'm sorry, I had to get on the soapbox there because that, then I start hearing the missing link stuff and all that and I go bananas. No, no, and I agree with you on that. I just, I look at, I'm somewhat of a student of history, and I look at, you know, like what the Egyptians did, what all these ancient cultures

did, stuff we can't even do today. We don't even have equipment to cut the blocks or lift the blocks or build what they built or the mathematical technology they had, the advanced knowledge of mathematics, the advanced knowledge of astronomy, and you're telling, and it's just like, I almost think we're a dumber version than what we used to be. Part of that is because some of the repositories of ancient knowledge were destroyed through the millennia, i.e. the library at Alexandria at the hands of Caesar. And I'm sure there were others. That wasn't the only library in the world. So a lot of that stuff is lost. And of course, the ruling class doesn't want an intelligent lower class. Right. I agree with you on that,

too. So access to all that stuff is, you know, is going to be restricted. And there's probably an interesting reason for it. Sometimes I can't define it. I don't understand why. when I discovered a museum that actually had the red-haired giant skulls in it, that was going to allow me to extract a tooth to have the DNA study done to find out what they were, why I got a telephone call from the government saying, you can't do that. It's Native American Repatriation Act stuff and yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, you can't, we're not going to let you do that.

Sir, do you have any idea what the story and the legend is behind the red-haired giants? they were not Native Americans because Native Americans persecuted them and killed them. Well, I don't care. It's still yada yada. You can't have them. And then the skulls disappear. Yeah, and it's interesting too. You know, I always, that's the part that really frustrates me because it's like,

what are they hiding? Exactly. What is it they don't want you to know? Right. And you see that today, like you can go back historically and it's like, God, we found giants here in the United States, people were digging them up like crazy, yet you won't find any giant schools

in any museum. It's like, where did all this go? Oh, it's all there somewhere. Believe me, they're never going to throw out anything they want. But it has been so hidden, and we're told only what they want us to know. Yeah, it's frustrating. It's very

frustrating. I was really, really lucky with my anthropology class. I had a professor Roland Fish. I had a professor that accepted the work I wanted to do on Bigfoot, loved the research directions I was taking with material that, you know, like you're out in California. You know where the Calicoe Mountains are?

I'm in Washington. Oh, Washington State, okay. Well, I know about work he did with Ms. Simpson in the Calico Mountain area, where they had found tools made by early men that are virtually identical to those found in Olivaigorge in Africa. Really? Yes.

Now, conventional anthropology, oh, they're sight-picked. I've seen them. I got pictures of them. They ain't sight-picked. They were made. Do you think Sasquatch is being covered up? If so, why do you think it would be covered up? Because of the religious right.

When you say that, what do you mean? Well, let's take, for example, suppose Dr. Meldrum is right. Suppose they are holohydoborgensis. Now, you have an animal that's in the same genus. is us, Homo. What constitutes being human, and how is the religion going to adapt to that? Do you think it's mainly just religion that they're worried about, or do you think there's more to it? Oh, I think religion's part of it. I think ownership of land becomes an issue, because if these things are proven to exist, and they are by nature, extremely rare animals, how much land has got to be

set aside for them as an endangered species that cannot be built upon, cannot be farm, cannot be developed when you have a nation of real estate tycoons and moguls that want to get their hands on everything, including all the state parks. Look at how unglued people came in the 1920s with the scopes monkey trials. And I mean, look what Trump's done to everybody. You don't think that's religion driven? I think that has a lot to do with it. I think it's more than just one simple answer. I think there's a lot of different moving parts to why it doesn't come out. All of which means the ruling class loses. So of course they're going to suppress it. One of the main reasons, I think, is going into your Squally's book. I think if they came out

and they started doing DNA tests on this, if they have been messed with through DNA manipulation, then someone's got to answer for that because they've been known to be around for a long time. And look at the names who financed it. Rockefeller, Harriman, Carnegie, Bush. Yeah, the ruling class. And, again, I'm not sure what I'd buy, but who's involved in the Bilderberg Society? Right. I mean, you know, the parallels bother the hell out of me.

And that's exactly why I wrote the book. It has bothered me since I learned about it back in college. I knew something was up. I knew it was wrong, and I knew Hitler had, well, I knew the United States was heading down that road, and I see it doing it now. Exactly what was going on in Nazi Germany, and it bothered the holy hell out of me, and it still does. Well, and it goes back to what you said earlier. That's always bothered me, is, especially with the DNA manipulation, you know, if they let out, I think it was the, the UK that came out and they're trying to pass a law to make it that hybrids.

And what's the term? What's the term when you mix DNA? You create a... You're talking about gene slicing? Yeah, but when you actually create something from it, there's a name for it. Clowning. Nah, I can't think if I said it, you'd know it. Anyway, the point I was trying to make is for these hybrids,

these manipulated DNA freak shows they're making. The UK has actually come out, and they've passed a law to provide rights to hybrids that they are manipulating to that they're creating. Oh, yeah, well, there you go. That's the Jurassic Park solution. Let's let's patent it. Let's get control of it. Let's slap it on a lunchbox and make money on it. Yeah, and it's scary. It's scary that that's going on. And it doesn't really seem like there was a blip on it on the internet. I'll have to send it to you, but there was a very small blip about it on the internet. and I thought, well, no one's outraged about this? And I looked it up and it's like, yeah, this is true.

This is actually a law that the UK passed for hybrids. They're creating DNA freak shows for protection. Well, if they're trying to pass a law for protection, you know they're well more advanced in doing this than what they're saying or what's actually come out. Of course. No question. Scott, I want to thank you again for coming on the show. If you guys get a chance, definitely go check out his books.

I got a link to it on Sasquatch Chronicles.com. Scott's written more than just Bigfoot, cryptid, squally books. I mean, he's written everything from golf to. He's got a long list in there, and I highly recommend getting his books. Go to pangia institute.us to check out some of his work. And Scott, it was an honor to have you on the show, sir. I really do appreciate you coming on. The honor's all mine. Thanks for having me.

Thanks so much, Scott. And again, look up Scott C. Marlowe. You can find him in your local bookstore, Barnes & Nobles. It was a real honor for me having Scott on. I'm a huge fan of his. So, Scott, thank you so much for coming on. Again, if you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email.

My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. That's it for tonight. I will see you guys back. Well, for the members, I'll see you back midweek. Otherwise, I'll see everyone back on Sunday. Have a good night, everyone. Being across the country faster than the coronavirus and wagering week is your antidote. I'm Tom Barton and I'm a veteran sports analyst and respected sports handicapper who will help build ESPN's brand.

I've been recognized and awarded by Pro Football Weekly and Gaming Today magazine as the honest handicapper. Let the other guys give you the same old boring sports talk with the same tired storylines. We'll give it to you straight here every Friday on Wagering Week. Don't gamble with other podcasts. Let SportsGarten Network's Wagerie. week help your bottom line.