Sasquatch Chronicles - SC EP:228 ATV rider has encounter

Episode Date: June 17, 2016

My guest will be Dave Groves. Dave shares with us an encounter he had with one of these creatures while riding his ATV, Dave says "I was riding my ATV and I kept getting hit with rocks. I stopped to see who was throwing rocks at me and as I looked up, this creature went from a crouched position to standing in a split second, we stopped and just stared at each other for what seemed like forever…….I was not sure what I was looking at….." I will be also giving a recap of Friday's show "Government Cover Up Of Sasquatch"

Five, five, four, four, three, three, two, one. One. When I had come down this hill, I had seen this creature cross the road. They would have ripped my locked door from my truck, extracted me from my vehicle, and no one in that damn thing I could have done about it. This thing I got to notice in its eyes. His eyes was real, real evil, real sinister looking.

You know, the look it was given me. What were here, put him? Get somebody out here. What's what on now, sir? That's son of a bitch is about six foot. Sir? Yes, I'm looking right at it. Sasquatch Chronicle.

A place where people share their encounters. Let's start the show. Welcome to the show, everyone. Thanks for being here tonight. Got a great show planned for you this evening. Going to be inviting Dave Gross to the show. And Dave's going to be sharing his own personal encounter he had with a Sasquatch. And like I was saying on Friday night's show, you know, what I find fascinating about Dave's encounter is he didn't believe in these.

things. He thought all this was just a bunch of mumbo-jumbo until he actually, that's my new word, mumbo-jumbo, by the way. He thought all this was just kind of a joke until he actually had his encounter. And when he had his encounter, he was just floored by it. So look for that here in a moment. Remember, if you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. And if you get a chance, chance to check out the website. Sasquatch Chronicles.com. There's additional shows. I apologize for last weekend. I was still able to get out a subscriber show, but I was in the process of moving, and so that's why I didn't pop up on your iTunes. But I'm back, and it's great to be back.

Friday night's show was interesting. In case you missed it, we did a whole government cover-up on Sasquatch, and we talked about the guys down in East Texas, the big thicket guys, and what happened on their last expedition? On their last expedition, these guys were basically harassed by federal officers, and they had to leave the forest. And I've talked about it on past shows. Really, it was over nothing. On Friday's show, it was actually almost a two-hour show. We talked about it. And I had Stephen come on and talk about what he saw. He was one of the participants there on scene. And he describes a show of force. Keep in mind, these are people looking for Bigfoot. Take a listen.

And after about five, ten minutes of just chatting with this, actually it was two officers. One, and they were doing good cop, bad cop routine because one was talking, doing all the talk, and one was sitting back just being silent. She was a female. They got in her vehicle and they left and we're like, well, that was interesting. About 15 minutes after they departed, we just finished getting our tents up and everything else. we look up and here comes a line of about six to eight. I don't remember the exact amount.

I know there's a minimum of six. I want to say there was eight. SUVs all coming right down the road, pulling right into the camp area. And they surround the whole camp. I mean, it's like a drug raid. They get everyone out. They start flagging everyone down. I mean, it wasn't violent.

It wasn't nerve-wracking necessarily other than the fact that it was this obvious show of force. But, you know, they're flagging everyone over, bringing, you know, come on up here, we want to talk to you, that kind of a thing. First thing they do is tell us to all be calm. They disarm everyone who's carrying a weapon. They, you know, they check permits, things like that. And then they proceed to separate us. And they start, they first they separate us out into a couple of groups and they keep us there for about 10 and 15 minutes the primary agent who was giving who was not the person we spoke to first who had been in the camp before this one particular singled out bob he he demanded you know to know where bob was at that point right when he

right when they come in i remember hearing that and um people told him well bob's up in his trailer and everything else. And so he went off and he locked himself in the trailer. The other guys kind of just stood there for a minute. They were mulling around by the had us separated. And then they congregated us back together. And they proceeded to question us. Now, I'm not going to go into what the questions were. These guys, I think, still have ongoing legal issues. So I'm not going to say what questions were being asked. I will say they seemed like ridiculous questions. They were petty.

They did not seem to make sense at the time for what was actually going on. We all lined up. We were asked. We gave them our answers, and they let us go. And for the next two hours, after that, we were just standing there, isolated from each other, and they would hit people individually. They'd go up. And they'd go and ask them, you know, pull them aside.

and ask questions. They'd, you know, pull someone else aside and ask them questions. Near the beginning of this, right after they pulled up and they had isolated Bob, I remember being not far from Wayland, I'd say about 15, 20 feet. And one of the cops was asking him, you know, hey, I know you were out here the other day, you know, getting your webcam, how's your webcam's going? and my understanding was what I understood from the conversation. Waylon looked at him and just was angry because he was like,

so you're the problem, you're what happened. And come to find out later, their game camps had been messed with. I think they were missing, actually, is what it was. Also, another thing the cops were doing, why we were standing around. And when I say isolated, we were like two or three individuals. There was me and two other guys in one group than about maybe 15 feet away. way there was a married couple there and one other guy, he was in another group. I mean, we were all spaced out maybe 15, 20 feet from each other.

Okay, we're not like being being actively isolated. Were these people in uniform? Oh, no, they're uniformed. These are all but the senior investigator were uniformed law enforcement officials. Okay. Now, we're, and we're talking for down here, and I'm assuming it's this true about most of the country and everything else, standard quasi-military uniforms, I mean, you know, they had their combat boots, they had their tack pants, they did not have any chest rigs or vests or anything, but you could tell they had their body armor underneath their shirt, okay? But so, I mean, really, in all honest, they look like mostly normal cops, okay? At least rural cops.

City cops may not necessarily look like this, but anyone who lives rural, they're going to recognize what I'm talking about. They weren't heavily armed. There were no rifles or anything like that. Everybody just had a sidearm. All the sidearms stayed holstered. They didn't do anything like that, like in that kind of a show of force. Their show of force was more the quiet and quiet. intimidation, just stand here for 30 minutes and don't say anything, you know, that kind of a thing.

And they kept this up for about two or three hours. During this time, they'd start asking questions and making statements, and it became obvious they had been listening to us before they came to the camp. We had been under surveillance. They were repeating conversations that we had had right before, you know, 10, 15 minutes before they pulled up right after we got out of the vehicles. They were repeating conversations and facts and things like that that the big thicket guys said they had had two, three, four days prior. And the thing is, basically the fine is operating a commercial business and the National Forest without a permit is basically what they got hit with. And it's a $150 fine. So it just amazes me that they spent so much time.

and effort. Just think of the amount of money bringing in six to eight officers for two to three hours, pulled away from other things, pulled away from like poachers to go bust some people, quote unquote, operating a business in the National Force without a permit. It's like, and to show the force that they showed, I wanted to go in more into the government cover up, but I'm so fascinated by this with you, Stephen, and the whole story. And it amazes me. And I'm sure people are going to want to go out with these guys now. I know they're not doing the expeditions, but when I was out with these guys, I saw some, I mean, I heard and experienced some real stuff out there, the stuff I was shocked by. And I know almost every expedition, people have walked away and they've experienced real

stuff going on. And I think it kind of pissed someone off down there. They were like, hey, you know, what are these guys doing? And it amazes me. The other thing, I know the text message you're talking about with Bob. I was on the phone with him when he was getting him. And I said to Bob, I said, I think I remember that now, yeah. Yeah, I said, hey, Bob, check for a Wi-Fi signal. I said, are all the officers gone? He said, yeah, they're all gone. I said, open up your phone, check for a Wi-Fi signal. And there was still a really strong Wi-Fi signal nearby. I think it was like FBI something. And then it changed to like a question mark or a symbol, like 30 minutes later. Bob said it had changed. And actually, he sent me screenshots of that, of the Wi-Fi signal. You know, someone was

watching. Someone was close by. And I'm sure Chet wasn't just a normal, I'm going to go out at one or two o'clock in the morning, drink beers and build a fire. You know, that's the behavior of a sociopath, I think. Just from what I saw down there, yeah, there's enough that makes me, you know, think, well, you know, there might be something out here. Did I have an experience? Did I have an experience? I catch something direct on audio? No. You know, the footprints that I found, I know their footprints. I saw them. I've got, you know, I, you know, I got them right there. Are they, were they castable? No, they were filled with water, you know, and everything else. Could I prove it in court? No, I couldn't. And everything else. So, so, you know, I'm going to tell the whole world right now,

you know, it's enough to make you go, hmm, but it's not enough, you know, to prove. anything else. But I'll tell you what did convince me that there is something going on down there, and that was the cops. Before I went down there and experienced this, I was still 50-50 that these guys were nutcases. I was, you know, I'm old school Bigfoot. I have, you know, it was, it wasn't until I even started listening to your show about a year ago and everything else that I was even willing to entertain the idea that we had Sasquatch west of the Rockies. Okay? I, you know, when I had been out of the scene for about 16 years, and last I'd been active was up in Washington around 2000, and that's where my world was.

That's where they were. California, Oregon, Washington, Idaho, you know, those areas. After I, you know, and so honestly, I hear Bob Garrett, he talks a good game. I hear Tim, I hear Mo, I see, you know, I hear Waylon and all them, I hear all this and I'm just like, these guys are either telling the truth or these guys are pulling a fast one. And so, you know, I went down there as much as anything else just to prove to myself just to see, okay, you know, what is there to this? You know, what's going on?

Did I get a Bigfoot experience? No. I got a conspiracy. Yeah. I mean, my world went through. I had such a paradigm shift after this event. I mean, that, you know, now when people come, and I feel so bad because I was one of those people that kind of rubbed wrong on the last Insider episode. I just, something didn't seem right and everything else.

And, you know, now... Let me cancel your account. I want to... You know, you know, no, that's fine. You know, there was... Now, I wasn't one of the ones that jumped all over you. I was just playing with you. You know, I was kind of like, I know,

but it seemed like it was going so far out and everything. And now I'm sitting there going, damn, I wish we could have gotten those other two episodes because... And everything. Because I'm paying a lot more attention to it now. Because this is... This just played right into that.

They couldn't have orchestrated this. This couldn't have been set up. I mean, this was large. This was a major operation. That wasn't these guys. Yeah. And so if you ask me, their legitimacy just went to 100%.

You know, I mean, as a general group, they've got something. They're on to something. They've done something. There has to be something there. because they've really upset somebody. Again, looking for Bigfoot. So if you get a chance to check that out, that was on Friday night.

Let's jump into it tonight. Dave, welcome to the show. Thanks for being here tonight, man. I really do appreciate you coming on. Thanks for having me on, Wes. I wanted to start from the very beginning. If you would, kind of walk us right into the counter. Tell us what you're out doing.

And then if you don't mind, just walk us right into what you saw, what you experienced. Okay, certainly. Yeah, this encounter was in 2010. It would have been, I think it was a second week in June, and the reason I say that is I was writing ATVs on a trail system. It's north of Marionville. It's in the Allegheny National Forest, and the trail system up there is in the federal forest

is run by the DCNR, the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources, and they don't open this trail until the weekend of, Memorial Day. So we went up right after the trail open. It's probably two weeks into that, which would have been about the second week in June. So that's what we were doing up there. Just a friend of mine and I, and I'm

being more of an experienced ATV rider than he is, and I actually was on a newer one, and I wanted to get this thing opened up. But anyhow, this trail system is like, it makes about an 80-mile loop, 65 to 80-mile loop, depending on if you can hit a couple of the trails twice to cross back and forth.

I'd say 80 miles, and we were working our way back up to the north at the end of the day. And when the encounter happened, and I got to say before this, you know, I wasn't, I'm not as, well, I am now, but I was not a Sasquatch believer. I didn't think about them, didn't care about them, didn't know anything about them. You know, I just wasn't into all that. So this was a total surprise and a total eye-opener and a shock to me. But what it happened was on the way back up, there's pretty, pretty, pretty. several miles, pretty large or long pieces, several miles. It's just like an old logging road, and gravel.

It gets kind of boring to ride. I like to fly through that part, and my buddy Paul, being on my smaller ATV and not being real familiar with him, he kind of putted. It's his first time up there, so he was enjoying the fort just like anybody else would be. It was beautiful scenery up there. And so I told him I'm going to head up and open this thing up, and I've probably got a mile ahead of him, my best guess, and the trail turned to the right.

I told him to look for the little yellow signs or arrows, and I wanted to pull off right after it turned to the right and wait for him in case he flew by. I could go back and get them. So that's what I was doing. I just flew into this spot, turned right, and so come off of this open trail into the forest for a small piece, and then it was like an opening, a little small field kind of with tall grasses, you know, a foot to two foot tall grasses. They ran about 30, I'd say 30 feet from the edge line, the forest line.

the trails, the grasses came out to the trail, I pulled off the direction I was headed. I swung in and pulled off on my left side, sort of aiming back into the woods to the right. And that way, when I got off, I could, you know, just look back and see if Paul went by or whatnot. But I just got off the ATV and took my helmet off and was, you know, going to have a bottle of water and a smoke or whatnot. And rocks were hitting the front right side of my ATV. And, you know, first I didn't say nothing about it. that's usually what happens when you're riding your quads in the woods.

But, I mean, maybe two of them hit two or three when I realized I'm parked and just, you know, it just was really odd to me. And I caught something out at the right side of my eye is what made me look to the right. So I started looking back to the right in the direction that I'd come from. And I'm looking through, what I was looking through was the tall grasses. Well, they were two foot tall grasses. I'm scanning back across there. There were a couple dead trees in there and so forth.

and out of my peripheral vision, I was seeing what I thought was going to be a log or a tree. I was kind of thinking I'm going to see a person standing there and throwing rocks at me. I mean, these rocks weren't coming out of the sky. And right when my eyes got to it, I mean, I never got to get past it, so, you know, people have asked me, would you think it would have been a tree?

I don't know. My eyes got right to it. This thing stood straight up. It was like on, the only way I can describe it was, in the way I do describe it's like one of the military targets that's on a spring. It just went, it stood straight up. instantly. And it startled me. I mean, I wasn't

freaked out. I was startled at first, but I, you know, I'm looking at this thing going, you know, I used to be a hunter. I was an avid hunter, and I spent a lot of time in the woods. I mean, that doesn't make you an expert or anything, but at least I know what bear looked like. I know what deer looked like. I was in the military, and I've been in Gilly, so I know what that looks like, this was none of that. I mean, you know, I hear people say that, you know, I know they got to ask the right questions and ask if you're sure you weren't confused with the bear or man in Gilli, and

when you see this, and this would have been, between 70 and 90 feet from me in the open in this tall grass was the only thing there was no trees between us I didn't know what the Sasquot because I didn't really believe in them then but I mean it didn't take long to figure out this was something that shouldn't be here that I've never seen before now this whole thing lasted maybe 15 seconds

and it seemed like 15 minutes it just you know your life changed anybody that's had an experience can tell you that your life changes and it is it's just I don't know it just woke me up like these things really exist

but what happened was I first looked to see in a straight hand because I'm thinking it's right-handed. I don't know why, or because I am. It's kind of foolish, but I was seeing, looking for rocks, something. Something was throwing rocks at me, and this must have been what it was. And I didn't see any rocks or whatnot, but this thing moved. It was standing looking right at me, squared right up to me.

I never saw the girth of it from the side, and it never turned around, so I never got to see the back of it, but it just stood there staring at me. And it had this look, and I'll never forget to look once I finally made my eyes up to its head and eye area was right before it stepped backwards. The deep dark eyes, I mean, these eyes were very dark and people have asked me, you know, to give a description. I can't give the deep detail of the face at 90 feet, 70 feet, but it was all black. I mean, this thing didn't have any color in it that I could see. It was just all black. It was what I would call hair three to five inches long as my best guess. And there was something different about the

face. I assumed it was black skin because it wasn't. the hair. It just looked different. The eyes were very dark and very deep, and I didn't see any whites. I don't know that I could have at that distance, but I think I probably could have because the eyes were big. The lips, I remember. I saw the nose was flat. The lips went all the way across its face. I remember that, but it never opened its mouth. It never huffed up. It never did anything like that to alarm me in this fifth. I'm trying to figure out what's going on and what this thing is, you know, and looking at this thing. And it never gave me that fear. The only thing that was after the fact was

when it stepped backwards is what it did after about 15 seconds, and I assume now it probably heard my buddy coming. But it stepped straight backwards, maybe three to five steps. It was in the tree line and that's when I was on my ATV headed the other direction and trying to get that thing to go. I couldn't get it

to go fast enough and seriously you start losing body function to be honest. The fear said in then because this thing was moving and now it's gone and I don't know where it's at and is it running behind me and all that stuff. off this through your head. But the initial encounter was, to me, looking back at it, was very peaceful. I don't remember feeling threatened or alarmed. And I have to say that. And this thing looked at me

almost the same way, like I was not a threat. I mean, it was kind of a really cool peaceful. I guess if you had to have an encounter, that's the way you'd want it. And that's the way it happened. It was, you know, no, I can't say that they're all, I would never say that they're all peaceful. I hear too many other stories. But for whatever reason, this thing was. And, you know, I'm never know why it did it. You know, that's something that I'll never be able to answer. And in talking to people, they were, uh, they would, you know, they were, you know, they were, you know, they're assuming and giving me what they think their answers are, would be, you know, maybe it was crossing that trail right then when you come flying in and it was just a matter of luck, which it, which it actually

was a matter of luck. But maybe there were other ones, that smaller ones there, and it was trying to draw attention to you. And that, you know, I, you know, I didn't even think about other ones. I didn't know the clans and families or anything like that. But, uh, you know, when I think about that, I have to wonder, well, I've always heard with the younger ones, they get more aggressive. This thing wasn't. I mean, so I have no idea. You know, I had to drive right past this thing is the weird thing, because when it was throwing rocks back towards my right and sort of from behind me, and these locks were coming right past me getting the right front tire well and the fender on my ATV. I mean, very accurately from. That trail, I had to have been 10, 15 feet from it and never saw, I never saw it, unless I was thinking it was a law there or something. But unless it just ran out there instantly before it started throwing rocks, I had to.

driven right past it, which is the freaky thing. You know, it makes me wonder how many times has this happened before, you know, that you don't realize. But that's pretty much the encounter, and it's definitely a life-changing experience. You know, I've got to tell people that, too, and I always say this, that people say, wow, I wish I could have an encounter, and you've got to be careful what to watch for,

because, I mean, honestly, it becomes a responsibility, and I take it very seriously, and I've chosen, I held it in for about four years, and actually at my very first conference, Steve Calls was there, of all people, and he pointed, you know, he was asking who believes in Sasquatch, and I was one that raised my hand, and I was sitting in the front row, and then the next question was, who knows they exist? And I was one of the ones that raised my hand, and he pointed right at me and said,

how do you know they exist? And I'm like, oh, no, I've got to speak now. And, you know, I was really nervous, and the feelings all came back up. And, you know, we talked afterwards, and I thanked them for getting that out because it made me feel so much better to get that off my chest. to not be laughed at is a big thing. Yeah, it's kind of one of those sayings. It's one of those experiences to where if you get a chance to talk about it,

you feel a lot better after talking about it, you know, and not being not being ridiculed. When you were looking at the St. Dave, were you thinking, A, were you thinking, man, I realize you're at a distance, and I completely understand what you're saying. Like, you know, you couldn't tell if it had cracked a smile at you or anything like that or, you know, going to too many details about the face. but from initially seeing this saying, did you get the impression like, oh, that's a guy or, oh, that's not a man?

Honestly, Wes, my initial impression was it wasn't a wild animal like a bear or something that was going to attack me. It didn't come across that way, but it had hair. People think this is very weird, but I'm telling you the truth, my initial, when I saw the face, and I guess because it was on two legs and two arms made me think this way too, and I'm sure did. but my initial thought was that thing looks pretty human. And I'll never forget. The face did look very human to me. I didn't get a lot of the detail,

but it wasn't a snouted bear, you know, it had more qualities of a human that I don't know how to explain to people. You just have to see it, I guess, to understand the difference. The eyes were, I remember the eyes. They weren't big round eyes, like circular eyes. They were almond eyes. I can see that distinctly, but they were so black. I mean, I never forget the deep,

blackness of them. But it wasn't a deep, black, ugly, you know, it was very peaceful. It was weird. It was like, I was in a great mood that day because I was with my buddy that I hadn't seen a while and we're up in the woods ride. And I think that had a whole lot to do with it. I honestly believe that. But, you know, my, yeah, to your question, it was, I didn't think it was a man, but it had a lot of human qualities to it. I didn't think it was a wild animal. That's something I didn't think. How was it proportioned? far as I'm guessing because the only way I could guess and I did actually try to do this when it was standing there was the only thing I had to go by was the grass height the grass was

probably a foot though foot and a half tall maybe two foot in some sections and it came up to right below its knees so my first guess was seven seven to eight foot seven and a half foot tall but the height made it wasn't the impressive this thing's shoulders were just what everybody says they are now that I've been doing research this thing was extremely wide and muscular. Now, it didn't have a V-shaped fillet. You know, it was just thick. It was, the arms were extremely, the shoulders were extremely huge and there was no neck, like people say. I actually thought this thing was leaning over, like towards me, because it probably could have been a colonel part of its head, I don't know, but I thought it was looking more at the top

of its head, and the arms were so low to the ground that I, and the way the head was, you know, looked like it was almost coming out of its chair. I just thought it was leaning forward. But when it step backwards, it didn't stand up anymore, so I don't believe it was leaning forward. But the arms were very long. The one thing I remember, and you know what, I heard your interview on the Jericho show, and you're the only one I've ever heard say this, where the elbows looked to be in a wrong place. Right. I don't remember what proportions you said to arms were, but I know the one I saw, the lower arms seemed to be very long. And actually what it did was a trite arm. When it moved the right arm, when we first made eye.

contact, it bent its right arm across. And its lower part of its right arm went the whole way across its body. It's thick waist. So the lower part of the arm, I thought it had a broken arm, but the left arm was just hanging there straight, and it was the same unproportion. It was very long. The fingers were moving. You know, so this was its arm.

I mean, it wasn't something, you know, people that said, you know, well, there are people that make costumes and put these extensions on them. I wasn't thinking any of that back then, but, you know, when I think back then, you know, When I think back, no, the fingers are moving everything. This was real. I mean, you know when you're seeing it. But, yeah, it was very thick. Now, the legs were very thick, the upper part that I could see,

and I couldn't see much below the knees. I never got to see its feet. And again, it never turned around, so I didn't get to see its back or, you know, the buttocks or anything like that. I couldn't tell anything about it. I couldn't tell the girth. It never turned sideways. One thing I didn't see were ears when it was looking straight at me.

It didn't have anything like big ears sticking out or any lumps that I could see just in that quick period of time. I didn't notice anything like that. And that's pretty much the size. And I remember the hand seemed very big, very long. I couldn't tell if it was thick thing. I mean, I wasn't looking at that kind of detail. But the length of the arms was massive to me.

I mean, in the width of this thing, especially the upper width, the shoulders were. I mean, I actually had a handgun in a camera. I'm like, well, my phone in my fender bag. And it never occurred to me, never in those 15 seconds to read three to one. I mean, that's not what you're thinking at the time. No, it's not. It's really not. It's the last thing you're thinking, and I'm glad it was, because I don't know what this thing would have done if I would have made a move.

I mean, I froze solid, basically just staring at it. I know it saw me. I mean, we're staring at each other, but I didn't want to move. And then when it moved, I finally did. But, you know, this thing was so big and massive and muscular look, and that even at 90 feet, and 90 is the long end. So, somewhere between 70 and 90 feet away. It was 30 steps. It was what thing probably could have got to me before I could have got my hand in the front of the end.

bag for all I know. I mean, it just looked that fast, that muscular that quick. Now, when it moved, it didn't move fast. It moved like stepping backwards, just staring at me. And then once you got to the woodline and into the trees, I don't know what it did. I was out of there. That's when I freaked out. But, yeah, that's pretty much the proportions. It was thick. It was massively thick. And, you know, I hear people say that about these, and it just blows me away. It's like people are seeing these things, the same thing. You know, and I've heard about the juveniles and stuff, and they're more lengthier. but this wasn't bad. This was well built. And it's very hard to articulate that to the listening audience,

how physically large and massive these things are. I mean, when I think of my own encounter and I can't imagine your encounter, you know, they're, I hate to say killing machines, but they really are. I mean, they're nature's killing machines. Kind of like when I say killing machines, I mean, like grizzly bears are nature's killing machines. I mean, there's nothing really that could stop them if they wanted to tear just about anything apart. and that's kind of how these things are built. I thought the elbows were in a different spot

and the knee was in a different spot. I thought the knee was a little bit lower than it should have been. But what's interesting is if you ever get a chance to see one drop to all fours, you realize really quick why they're proportionate that way,

but you got a chance to see it do the opposite. Pop straight up. Pop straight up. And in honesty, even then, I mean, not even just thinking back, it was just so fluid. It was like, it was there.

You know, and I know me, it takes me, and I'm grottin a few times when I go from that. I mean, this thing was either not laying down, but think about a foot and a half tall.

That's not very tall. It had most of its body below that. So I don't know how, what position it was in, squatted down, laying, but, I mean, it was just,

it was straight up, like instantly. It didn't stand up slowly. You know, that startled me. I mean, I was just kind of look in that direction when it did it.

But, yeah, it honestly, people, she didn't have freak. It didn't freak me out. I mean, it wasn't running at me. It wasn't, you know, after a second or two, you calm down and they're looking at you. You know, I mean, I'm pretty level-headed and don't freak out too much.

And I think, thank God for that. Because I don't know how this thing would react if I would have panicked and did something stupid, you know. I'm glad I gave it a chance to be peaceful because it was. It wasn't, it must have known I was not, this is my personal opinion. And I got that feeling at the time that I knew I was not a threat. So it was just like, we're just sharing the same piece of the wood for me. and I'll see you later. I mean, that's how it actually came across the main.

But when it moved and you see them body muscles ripple and that's, this thing is alive and that's when the fear hit me, the fear of God hit me. It was like, oh, my God, these things could just, I was waiting for the ter a tree out and just swing it at me. I mean, this thing was just so that big, that strong looking. I mean, I can't describe that well enough to people. Yeah, and it's really hard to describe. And, you know, and the other thing, you know, after I talked about my own encounter, I took so much heat from people who said, oh, they don't move like that.

They don't drop down to all fours like that that that quick. And I'm telling you, I'm like, hey, it dropped down to a fours. Like in a blink of an eye, it was down. I mean, it was there was no, it wasn't like a man getting down on all fours by any means. It was down. And I don't imagine when you saw it pop up, it was the same thing. I mean, bam, it's with a blink of an eye and it's up standing and looking at you. Again, I never saw it move quickly, like step quick, but just that movement was fast.

It was like, bam, it was, wasn't there one movement. minute and next minute it was. And I know it was, you kind of see what looked like, you know, a stump or something coming up out of my purpose of my personal vision. But yeah, the quickness, the quickness was just amazing. The fluid. And the other thing, too, is not every encounter is aggressive. I mean, if there were these things that had been found a long time ago, but there was a lot of aggressive encounters. But I think a lot of times it's like yours, Dave. You came across it probably semi-surprised it because you probably stopped right where it was at or in the, you know, looking at its general direction, probably thought you already saw it, so it might as well pop up,

and then you kind of depart ways. Regarding it throwing rocks, why do you think it was thrown rocks at you? Well, that's the part, you know, how am I explained the story in this encounter or explain how I felt? And I can't answer why. I do not know why it was thrown out. I mean, I've heard the stories afterwards about why they throw rocks. You know, there's several reasons.

It's defensive. It's kind of scare you off or perks, you know, there's young ones or whatnot. but somebody, I got, what happened was after that, it took me about three months or so. I finally got online and realized there's a community of people that are into this. You know, I didn't know there were all these online groups and conferences and stuff. So I started getting on the groups like I think a lot of people do when he first, when this happens. And one of the first people that I kind of respected, she had mentioned, she said, you know what it could have been? And I can't answer this truthfully.

But my thought is that you probably pulled, there could have been younger ones right next to you or close to you that you just didn't. see and this thing was drawn into attention back to it. So you didn't see those young ones. And that made sense to me. I mean, at first it startled me because I thought there was more than one. I didn't think there was one, but, you know, like I said,

I didn't know anything about family, you know, the clans or any how they travel in groups or anything like that. I didn't know anything about them. So that never crossed my mind that there was more than one at first. But that's the only thing that makes sense. But at the same time, if there were young ones, I would think this thing would have been a lot more aggressive, you know, like showed signs of aggressiveness to me

to get me out of there. It didn't. You know, I don't know if it could tell I was ready to leave and harmless. That's how I felt, though.

I felt that, you know, this is, we're just sharing the same spot. Again, until it moved and you saw the body parts move, you know,

that's when the fear got hit me. But I have no idea why I was throwing rocks. That's my only best guess. You know, what happened was, I've been wanting to have a sketch of this gun

for a long time because it was a peaceful encounter and something that didn't, mind looking at again. And I wanted into my office, my home office, so I could look at it. It's actually changed my life this encounter. And if I'm having a bad day, I could look up. But I've had people try to

do this sketch, and we couldn't get the Sasquots right. It couldn't get a lot of the things right. Well, this Ohio bigfoot conference this year, Mark DeWorth, who runs the conference, said one of the speakers, Sybola Irwin, is going to come, and she's going to work. I want her to work with you when she contacts you.

If you don't mind, you know, do a reenactment of a sketch of what you saw and she'll do the best to bring out the details and everything. I kind of doubted it. I didn't know who Sidwell was at the time and other people tried this. Well, it was about four months later and she presented it. She edited in her presentation and when I saw that, I knew it was the one that was for me.

She had the initials there. She didn't have my name on it. But, I mean, literally tears. It was just something to see the final work done that was pretty amazing to me. And then she called me up at the end and handed me that 16 by 20 canvas of it. It was just absolutely beautiful of the face and the body standing there with a bent arm. And I want to call it why. That's what I want to name this picture that she made, because that is in my head.

I don't know why it did what it did. You know, that name that word just sticks out so much like why. I wish I knew why. You know, why it did that and didn't stop and stopped at that and didn't do anything more aggressive, if that's the case. I have no idea. I'm glad that's all it did. I mean, it was bad enough. Those rocks were pretty accurate.

wanted to hit me, it would have hit me, and I would have never knew it was coming, because they were hitting the exact, almost the exact same spot. And maybe it wasn't even the one throwing her on. I mean, maybe there were other ones closer. I don't know, but I assume that's the one that was thrown her on. Yeah, Sabilla's good. She's definitely good. I've seen her online.

I talked to her one time on the phone, and I wish I had her talent, and I could draw like she does. I mean, she's really talented when it comes to that. She's really good, too, at taking witnesses, descriptions, and creating, kind of recreating what they saw. I mean, she's good. She's definitely good. The other thing I was going to tell you is the rock throwing, it almost makes you wonder about the guys down in Texas, the Hell's Angels bar I always talk about down there, how these guys get knocked off their bikes,

and, you know, they all refuse to ride after dark, and I always joke online. I hope they know I'm joking. These aren't the men you want to mess with. I mean, these really are not the men you want to mess with, but they're terrified. They are absolutely terrified, and they get rocks. And I always thought, I wonder if they're getting rocks out of them because of the Harley, the noise of the Harley going by. He kind of pisses these things off. I almost wonder if, like, the ATV, it was its way of doing frustration just to get out of here, you know, kind of that for, I don't know if you ever lived in it. I never thought of that because Wes, now that you say that, I mean, it makes, because I, the whole thing about this was I didn't hear anything come out of that, any noises come out of it. Its mouth never opened if it made noises.

But I had my ATV running. I left it running the whole time when I got off. I thought it was only going to be there for a couple of minutes. And I was having a heating problem with my ATV. And the fan wasn't coming on when I shut it off. It had to be running. So I wanted a calling fan to come on. And, you know, it wasn't an extreme loud ATV.

But I never thought about that. That could be very well why it was throwing rocks. I mean, yeah, never occurred to me. That's a good thought. Yeah, you know, just kind of the frustration, kind of like when you're sitting in your home. And I don't know if you've ever had a guy on a Harley go by. You're just like, Jesus, man, buy a muffler. You know, rattles your windows.

It just kind of irritates you. I almost wonder if it's the same theory with these things. things. I don't know. I actually love that song. Well, I do too. I know what you're saying. I know what you're saying.

Yeah. No, I do too. I love the sound of a Harley and I used to own one. But what I'm saying is I think it's that frustration of just like move along or just frustration of grabbing rocks. I'm going to throw them at you and maybe he'll just go away now. That type. It could have been, yeah.

How did it change your life? Well, it changed my life. It's weird because, you know, people may not want to hear this, but it's the truth. is I actually became much more spiritual person. I did. I always loved the woods, and I always thought I treated the woods with respect, but I really try to watch how to leave a smaller print in the woods from me, you know. And, you know, even when I'm riding,

and I've gotten into doing research through another guy that's 25 miles west of that area. And we take bags in and clean stuff up. I'm sure a lot of people do that, but I didn't do that before. I would just cuss at the trash like, shit. Why do people do this? Now I try to take it out. But that's not the big thing that changed me. I mean, one of the big things was, I was an avid hunter.

I love my deer hunting and my bear hunting. And I wasn't hunting that year. This was in July or in June, but I never, I didn't hunt that year, and I haven't hunted since. I never, I've never touched my rifle again. And I can't explain that. I know it's tied back to this, the Sasquatch encounter, and, you know, I hear stories of people seeing them in their scope and, you know, looking very human or scary, whatever. I don't know that I want that to happen. Now that I know they're out there, I don't want to ever be in a situation where I end up pulling my scope on it.

I don't know what the answer is. They eat deer. Maybe I don't, you know, I don't mind hunting and God we need it. And I miss it every year. But I do not deer hunt. I do not use my rifle anymore in the woods. And I can't explain that. And, you know, just it pulled me into the Sasquots community, I mean, hard.

You know, what I wanted to do was do some research. and, you know, maybe read some books and talk to some people before I revisited the place, so I didn't go up there like an idiot and shake something out of there that was very special. And that's when this other guy called me up. He read my story and said, I'm 25 miles out of west. Why don't you come up? So we did every other weekend. We were researching for a couple years, and he had an area that was active, and he'd been chased out of,

and he needed someone else to go in with him. And we were seeing some pretty cool stuff, and I was learning there, and I wanted to go back. But the trail system that this encounter happened on is, again, you have to have permits and registration and insurance and get their quad sticker to even be on those trails. And to find somebody like that that also was into Sasquist research, which is difficult. I put the word out and really didn't have anybody come forward to do that, except for this guy, that it wasn't for the same, you know, we weren't going to do it on ATVs. So I never got back, but that was my goal to do that. And it just pulled me in deep. I mean, now I collect books.

You know, I can't get enough of the books. There's some great information in this stuff. And I will never, ever doubt what anybody says again. I mean, you know, yeah, I'm going to question things, but I used to laugh at this. I'd probably never laughed in their face. I'd get out of the conversation. And if somebody brought up Sasquatch or UFOs or, you know, the locknet's mall. I mean, come on, really.

We'd have found it by now, not knowing all the details. and all the stuff behind it because I wasn't into research and all that. But, I mean, it just pulled me in. I mean, for one second, not believing to the next second, not having a choice is a big change in their life. Yeah, it kind of opened your eyes, doesn't it?

Oh, it does. It makes me wonder what else is out there. I mean, I start reading some of these real weird, some of the woo-of things out there. And, you know, I'm not into all that, but part of me got to question it, you know, because I didn't believe in Sasquatch before. There is no way with the time I've spent

towards hunting. And, you know, that it never saw one, ever suspected there was anything out that all of a sudden here they are, that people have been telling the truth, and the Native Americans have been telling us these stories that we've been ignored for a long time, you know, that what else could be true? I mean, there's, it just amazes me. Now, my mind is so open to a lot of things, you know, but yeah, it's definitely changed. I mean, the spirituality side of me is blown open wide. I can't even explain that. It's just like, you know, I'm not real religious as far as going to church.

attendance on Sunday, but me and I'm very spiritual now. In the woods, have a big thing to do with that. I can't spend enough time to me anymore. Well, and I can understand that. I can definitely understand that. I was talking to an atheist one time, and I said, you know, he didn't buy into the whole God or anything else. And I said, why you go buy a Ouija board? Play with it for two weeks and come back and tell me that none of this stuff is real. And he did. And he had a really, really bad experience. with that with that Ouija board. I laugh. I shouldn't laugh. But, you know, until you experience

some things, it makes you kind of stop back and on life and kind of go, well, what else do I not know about? What else is out there that I, you know, thought was a joke or I always laughed at or, you know, I was like you, Dave, I'd hear crazy, crazy stories, aliens, all this other stuff. And I would just kind of chuckle under my breath and go, while these people are nuts. And then after you see something like this, it makes you kind of stop in life and go back and go, well, maybe those people weren't crazy. Maybe they did actually see something. Maybe they did experience something. When someone has a lot of emotions and they're going through and telling you what they saw or what they experienced, it kind of makes you stop and take pause. And it's irrelevant if someone's a cop or if someone

holds some high position or their position's kind of irrelevant. You know, when people see these things, man, you can just tell right off the bat that they've seen something. And the way you describe it, you know, I've never heard someone say it pops straight up like that. It just pop straight up. But I'm telling you, from what I saw it pop straight down, I can see it popping straight up. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that'll never forget. That in the eyes, not in the look of the eyes, like the curious look, like it was looking at me, like, what are you still doing here? You know, not aggressively, just curious. It's like, if you're a thinking being to me, you know, you can call apart human, whatever.

or human quality is not part human. That's the wrong thing to say, but human quality is about it. You know, and I'm sure standing on two legs with two arms had a lot to make me think that way, too. But it really did. And, you know, that popping straight up thing, yeah, it's, it was like a spring. I mean, at first I'm thinking, you know, the pop-up targets, but, you know, you could see the hair moving on it. You know, and at 70 to 90 feet in the open woods, well, this wasn't in the woods. It was like alongside the woods in this little field bike.

yeah, you know what you're looking at. It, you know, again, I can't tell people enough what's what you wish for because not all of them are nice encounters. I believe that. You know, these ones are people, you know, they're not getting attacked per se, but they're getting bullrashed or really getting harassed. And, yeah, I couldn't imagine if that was happening in this case. We probably wouldn't be having this conversation because I'd be out there looking for them to shoot them, you know. Yeah. I'd hate to say that, but it would have changed my whole thought.

Well, it's like what you and I talked about right before we went on air. People who have really aggressive, if you had asked me six months after my encounter, I would have said, kill them all and God sorted out. Shoot every one of them. You know, I've kind of backed off of that because I've realized after interviewing people that not every one of them is that way, but in the same breath, I've talked to witnesses before where they have a relatively peaceful encounter. I had a guy on gosh, he still sticks with me.

He had a female, and he goes out looking for the female because it was, a very peaceful type encounter. The thing was not aggressive with him at all. And now he feels like he owes or something. And I remember telling him, like, hey, man, just because you ran into that one, doesn't mean they're all going to be like that. You know, and you just have to be careful. It's a whole grizzly bear aspect, you know, 99% of the time a grizzly bear will probably kill you. And I'm not saying Sasquatch in the same breath. I'm just, I guess it's a bad analogy. But what I'm trying to say is, You know, if you come across a grizzly bear and it just walks past you and keeps going, that doesn't mean the next time you're running past a grizzly bear, that's going to happen.

It just doesn't. But I'm with you, Dave. I mean, do I think every one of them are godless killing machines out there slaughtering everyone that get their hands on? No, I don't. Does it happen? Yeah, it happens. So it's that unpredictability. And I wanted to ask you, what state did this happen in?

This is Pennsylvania. I'm sorry. Yeah, it was Pennsylvania. Northwestern PA. There's a national forest up there called the Allegheny National Forest. The people in the area might know the towns of Cain. Marionville, I was probably 10.5. For 10 miles northeast of a little town called Marionville when it happened.

And it's a forest that covers maybe 550,000 acres, I think. And I've actually heard it mention, which blows me away. I was reading up on the forest to get an idea of you know, the whole forest, not just the piece I was in. And it was called some of the most uninhabited land, that acreage of land east of the Mississippi. And I kind of thought that was strange because I've been in some pretty uninhabited land. And I didn't think that in this place. I mean, it is uninhabited, but, you know, it's here it is in my home state.

I'm not thinking it's that uninhabited. But it is. It's, you know, it's not a lot of people living right in that forest. So, yeah, it's Pennsylvania and northwestern beautiful part of the state. I know you're a part of the Pennsylvania Sasquatch Research group on Facebook. If people go online, they can find that again. It's Pennsylvania Sasquatcha Research. You know, I go on there actually on your guys' group, and it's good for just to, you know, research and see what everyone's saying.

And it's one of those groups I like online where there's not a lot of drama. I try and stay out of those groups. As you and I both know, Dave, there's a lot of drama online. You know, who hates you, you know, who hates who and all that other mumbo-jumbo. but I know you guys kind of stay out of that. Do you take reports from people? Yes. Would you be honest, Tony started a group probably about a year ago,

so we're still fairly no. We just got over 600 members. And again, it's mostly locally the state, so we're not going to be, we're not looking for numbers. We're looking for equality of people. And we're taking reports. We're going to help other larger groups in Pennsylvania, instead of recreating the wheel,

we want to help those folks maybe forward some, some we're going to start a database and all that. It'd be expensive doing that and someone to manage it and why do that when it's already been done here. So that's sort of one of our other admins actually works on those other groups. So we're all kind of combining our efforts here and trying to do that. But yeah, we're taking reports, you know, any information, any education, that's mostly where it's about. We just want to get the word out that this is what's going on here in the state. and if anybody has any questions, you know, they're more than well.

We just don't like any arguments like everyone says that, but we will not follow it. I mean, there's healthy arguments, but we don't want the finger pointing in that. There's too much of that out there. So if that's what people want to join for, don't bother or we're not. No, I hear you. I'll have to have you back on the show. I'd love to hear any new reports that you guys get or I don't know if you'd be willing to do that or not, Dave. I'd love to have you back on the show to talk about reports that you're looking into or new reports.

that you have. And Pennsylvania is one of those states, honestly, to where I think there's more going on there than what you see on paper. I'm going to be honest. When I found, I had this encounter up north, and I found this person that pulled me in and asked me to help him in his research area. We also found another guy that was maybe, he left actually literally a block away from this guy, and they didn't ever knew each other.

And his research and maybe 10 miles away, it's a lot of forest up in that area. So there's a lot of place to research. But we're not finding a lot of other people. And if they're up there, they're not saying a lot. So they're either staying to themselves. You know, it just doesn't seem to be a lot of people out there tracking the woods, doing a lot of research. That's a good thing, I think.

But, again, it keeps the numbers low. You don't hear a lot about Pennsylvania. You hear a lot about the southwestern part of PA. I don't say yet. Down in that area, Washington County. There's some, you know, finding Bigfoot was down there and did some things. And that part of the state you hear about, but not the northern part. And it's all forced.

I mean, you know, of course these things are up there, big bear population. When you went out with that guy and he took you out to a spot, what was probably the most interesting thing that you guys came across or the most interesting experience that you had while you were out with him? Well, I was out with him. I probably didn't know it at first, but I quickly got to learn. And it's just an opinion, but it's an experienced opinion, I believe, that never underestimated that feeling in your gut.

If you think you're being watched, you probably are. If you're not comfortable with something, don't go forward, back out. I mean, you really got to follow your gut when you're in the woods. And the reason I say that is in his area, I just probably been only two times I've been in there that it felt dead like nothing. The rest of the time, it was like you were being observed. The feeling, the hair's on the back of your neck standout. We'll start hearing noises up on this one hill that I can't climb up this hill. And what we eventually want to do is get on our hands and knees and get up this hole,

is we think there's something, you know, a nest or something up there. And the biggest thing that we found, when I found my first print, it was like firstborn child. I'll never forget that feeling. I wanted to protect it. You know, I didn't want to take it out of the woods. I just wanted it to stay where it was, and I wanted it to stay there forever. It was just so cool to see what I thought was a print, and I think it was. But we found a few of them, actually, and then started putting a story together what this thing did maybe.

and but turns out one of the things that I'll never know was real or not and when I speculate that it is that, and I just found this Wu six months ago was the guy I researched with we had a little falling out not too long ago there's personal opinions we're going to get back together

but he had another friend going with him and he told me the story it was last year he said Dave he said I had my buddy in the woods and up on that one hill side that I was mentioned and he said, he come over to me in the woods and he said, Doug, this, you know, if they wanted us, there's nothing we can do about it. And Doug looked at him and said, what do you mean?

And he said, I swear to God, something big and white just ran up over this hill. And I can't tell you what it was. I don't know. But it wasn't a bear. It wasn't, you know, and the guy was freaking out. You know what they were in there for and they were doing in there to look for signs. Right. Yeah.

So when Doug told me the story, I went back and looked at pictures I'd taken maybe two years before this. I'm not wanting to go back and zoom in on pictures, pull faces out. You know, I'm just not into that. Put circles around stuff. If you can't see it, it's probably not there. Or it's not evidence enough that it's there. But honest of God, behind one of these bow trees along the creek where we followed these prints and we were seeing these like, it didn't look like stick smashed into the tree.

It looked like rocks because I didn't see spinners. I took pictures of some bowed trees that were coming back against the current. You know, like so if the crop stream overflowed, that's not what bent this tree. I'm not saying it was Sasquatch. I just thought it was interesting. And we heard some noise up on that hill. And I remember that. That's when I went back and looked at this picture.

We thought it was just deer. Couldn't see anything. That's a steep hill. So what I did was I went and zoomed in on my PC on a couple pictures of that hill. And I mean, before the pixels start pixel-eighth. And there's a white face looking right at me with big black eyes, a nose, and a shoulder. I mean, I swear to God, this thing looks blatantly like the Pennsylvania big white foot that people have seen on the video. It looks exactly like that.

Now, I don't know what. it is because I didn't see it that day and I only showed it online once just to get us because this guy says he saw something white and what do I find in this picture is a white face looking at me that was interesting but some of the other things I thought were very interesting were the trees not to snap so much the tree twists I was heard a guy online or he was he actually contacted him on PM but he was online talking about you know if you're looking for that kind of stuff look maybe six foot high if the tree if you could find the top of the tree and look for some kind of grip marks or something, you know.

And so that's what I started doing. And when you find those things, it was one nice, is bigger than a sapling, but it was a medium-sized tree. And it had like claw marks in it. I don't know how to explain it, but it looked like something. But you could see where the bottom of it was just twisted until it snapped. I mean, it just popped right off. And to find those twist is very unique to me because that takes hands to do that.

Now, I don't know. People can't get equipment in here and, you know, that kind of stuff. But I didn't see the Sasquots still. So I'm not saying it just makes me, wonder and you start putting two and two together and that kind of stuff was interesting. Another thing that really was fascinating to me was like we were going in every two weeks for about two years in a row and well there's no walls and trees overhead, you know, perpendicular to the ground.

Well, it's one two weeks we went in there was. There was this tree and the root ball end was on the right side where I took the picture front was on the right side and the top of the tree was on the left and it was about 25 to 30 feet high, perfectly perfectly perfectly clear of the ground or parallel of the ground. And it was wedged in between the big branches of these trees. And I'm looking around for maybe, okay, that's a root ball, it looks like. But maybe it's a big branch that came out from another, there's nothing. I mean, it looked like a ground log.

It had moss on top of it. And two weeks later, we went back in and it was gone. And there were no marks on the trees where it fell down. There was no, you know, it disappeared. How it got there and how it got pulled down, I have no clue. And those kind of things just make you scratch your head. And it's, you know, of course people can get in here with a police system and a couple guys can do it. They work for.

I mean, no one knows we're in here and it's, you know, posted property. And, yeah, just things that make you go, the noises you hear that you start thinking differently about, you know. Again, I'm knowing what did it. You can't tell. But it's just being a hunter, you know, it wasn't a deer. It could have been coyote. It's just some really bizarre sounds that you start paying attention to them. Yeah, the woods are cool.

They really are. and I wonder if these things exist now. I look at them a lot differently. Yeah, I think after you have an encounter, you kind of have that head on a swivel. You're more alert to sounds. You're more alert not to write things off. I definitely understand what you're saying. You know, the tree twist, I never really understood the tree twists.

It looks more of, I've seen them before, and it's not weather damage, and it's not anything a man could do, and you're right, you need hands to do it. But I've seen that tree twist before. I don't know, in my opinion, I think it, if it's more of like frustration, It kind of seems like when you grab something, if you're mad, and you're just like, oh, and you like kind of grab, you know, kind of, you know, I just wonder if that's what they're doing with the tree twists. Yeah, I don't know. I thought about it. You know, I think trying to put all that together.

First of all, are they doing it? You know, it's speculation, but it's an educated guess, I think. We're not just flying off the handle here. We're trying to put a story together in these woods. And like everybody else is, you know, when you're out there, you kind of put that together. And, you know, if there were 20 trees in one area to twist it, then it's wind damage. to me, but this isn't what we're seeing. And yeah, who knows what it's for. It could be very well, could be like that. You're just frustration. And I mean, one time we thought we pissed the

Sasquatch off because it started raining a little bit, and we just would not leave the woods, you know. And we decided this one day we were going to hang, we were going to try to do some fruit. We never did it again. But we decided we're going to hang this, just fruit. It was all fruit like apples. There were some vegetables. We hung in the bag really high up. We pulled the limb down with a branch, tied it on the very far end of the limbs so the raccoons couldn't get it. stuff and hung it up. And it was 100 yards away. It was about 100 yards distant away.

We had to go back over to the trail that we walk in on and walk out on. We'd do the same trail in and out. And we had to cross it, but we heard this, a tree snap. It's a tree fall. You can definitely, you know it was a tree fall. It was like, holy Christ. There was a tree over there that fell. And, of course, there's dead trees in these woods.

We're not, you know, but we're in there looking for evidence. So we had to go check it out. And we walked over, and you can see that it was a big, half dead tree that could have fallen on its own and fell into the creek. It was huge. but right before it, 20 feet before it, right on our path, it wasn't there when we walked in, was this huge maple tree branch that was, like,

maple leaves on, and it was really big and wide and spread out. Like, something dropped it there, and I say that's weird being in the woods because we're in a pine forest. There's no maple trees right there, and there's no other, you know, soft woods or any kind of wood besides pine trees right in that area. So it was kind of bizarre when you start paying attention to that stuff, you know, like, wow, you know,

But yeah, just learning the different things, like going in and taking pictures of the same weird spots and going back and taking pictures of it again, whether there's anything just to compare the differences. That's where you start seeing things, I think. Yeah, no, I tend to agree. And I'm with you on that. I've seen that myself. There's actually on three different occasions now I've gone into areas. And on my way out, there's either a tree pushed over or a large limb across the road. And again, I can't quite figure that out.

It's, you know, in my mind, I'm sitting here trying to think. what would have placed that there? You know, besides the Sasquatch or a person, what would have placed at there? You know, I don't think a bear is going to drag it over there. I mean, it looks like it was placed there. And it's almost like blocking your path to leave. I mean, and that kind of bothers me a little bit because that's what I thought when I saw it myself. I thought, you know, God, it's trying to block our path out of here.

Yeah, they definitely put them in a place if it's them. They put them in a place where you're going to notice it. I mean, it's not like they're hiding it. And there's the ones we find are too small to really. block our path. That would freak me out if I saw a tree or something. You know, be like, oh, my God, they're trying to lock us in here somehow. But, now, these were always small. Like, we found saplings pulled out of the ground with the roots and everything, not right there. We couldn't find a hole anywhere, and it was laid right on our path. And it wasn't there coming in.

You know, then we're in there for two or three hours. It's like, holy Christ, what did this and why? They're like, I like to try to figure out why, because it's almost like, you know, a cop investigating a murder. You try to put together a motive and all that. And we don't know enough about these creatures to know why or why not. So it's interesting to try to come up with those answers, you know, like why. Was it pissed off? Is it just wanting us to know it's here? Is it trying to scare it? What's it doing? I mean, you know, one day we'll start figuring that out, I think. Yeah, especially when you have witnesses on, you know, like the wood knocking. They used to always say, well, you don't know what Sasquatch does that. And I've probably had three witnesses on so far that

have actually seen them either with a rock, a hand, or I think the last witness I had on, he said it had a huge stick in its hand, and it was banging on a tree. He actually saw that. Yeah, yeah, he saw it. Well, there you go, then, yeah. He walked up on it. And I've had other witnesses on. You know, one guy I had on, he actually saw it, grab a deer, pick it up underneath its arm, snap its neck, and start walking back into the woodline.

And he said, before it did it, it took its hand out. And he said, the hand on the thing was huge. It was like a catcher's glove. He goes, the hand on this thing was just enormous. And he goes, he hit a tree. And he goes, at first I thought maybe had a rock in its hand or something because it echoed like a wood knock. And this thing just slapped the tree so hard. And then you see like chimpanzees do the same thing.

You see great apes do the same thing. And so kind of, you know, builds a picture, you know, why they do it. I guess we haven't figured out yet. But kind of get an idea of, yes, they actually do do do this. They do actually hit trees. The wood knocking you're hearing is a behavior that is reported by the witnesses. But I would love to have a witness on that's actually seen them grab a tree and twist it. And just kind of hear the story about what's going on.

Why do you think it was doing that? You know, it's like I was asking you, Dave, why do you think it was thrown rocks? So the witness's impression of what's going on is the best thing you can snag from an encounter. Because a witness generally knows, like in your encounter, well, it really wasn't an aggressive encounter. It's a really relatively peaceful encounter. And those are important things to gather as you listen to witnesses and you hear them talk about it. But I would love to have someone on that said they saw it do that tree twist because I've seen it myself. And it's like the best way I can describe it for the audience listening is the wooden matches, you know, the match sticks.

If you took one of those and you took, you know, took your two hands and just kind of twisted it to where it breaks. That's kind of what they do to trees or what I've seen any way out there. You know, why, I don't know. They make it look like they just twisted a piece of rope, but the piece of rope was solid, and it gives and cracks and breaks and splinters, but it made it look that easy, you know? Exactly.

Holy cow, what has arms and hands, you know, but it amazed me because the one tree that we found that were very blatant marks on it look like grip marks, like some hand grips, fingernails might have actually gone into it. We're about six and a half foot up if the tree were still standing. The one thing we do is, like, we'll look at three snaps, too,

which I'm not sure about those, but just my opinion, but I look at the ones that are anywhere from three to six-foot snapped off. Somebody said, yeah, take our attention to those, but we can't ever find the tops to these. And the thing is the reason this guy started researching that area was he used to trout fish in there, and he noticed how thickets being in the, like blogs were being brought in, but he didn't know much about Sasquots back then, so he started watching the area.

And so we're starting to think, well, maybe they are snapping. He's often ficking in the area up for whatever. a reason, because we're flying a lot of piles of brush that were snapped, not cut, you know, and that sort of thing. But to think about this one that we did find laying there that was twisted. I mean, you could just see the circular motion in the trunk was just, and then you look up inside the tree part, and it was concave. Like, you know, there's a hole there where it's all used to fit together as one tree.

And then to think, now, if you're standing there and you were grabbing that tree and you reach, we would pretty much reach straight out, maybe a little bit lower than straight out. I don't know how many feet that would be, but to be six and a half feet off the ground and reaching straight, that's pretty tall, you know, whatever put them, marks there. Now, yeah, they could have happened once the tree was on the ground, and the animal could have went up there and shoot them. I don't know.

I wasn't there. But it just kind of, you know, the visions start coming into your head, like, man, something was that tall, and straight out grab this thing and just twisted it like a match. And I'm glad that your encounter was a relatively peaceful encounter. I was just reading an email I had just had from a guy who was saying he was chased out of his tree stand. by these things.

They jumped on the ATV and on their way out. He said it was keeping up with the ATV, and he had the gas all the way down. And it's just fascinating. Their behavior is fascinating. Trying to figure out why they do what they do is fascinating to me. And I hope it all gets solved soon. You know, I hope we find it.

Yeah, I get too. I mean, part of me does. And the other part's like, well, then it's solved. But it's really not solved because they're all different, I think. And I'm learning quickly, too, from just the other stories and the other, I don't like all the stories. Other encounters, the other, hearing people talk about them, they're not all the same.

And, you know, when people do tend to just think that they're all going to be like their encounter was aggressive or peaceful, you know, I'm not foolish enough to think that they're all. At first, when I, after this happened, that's how I felt like what you said earlier. I wanted to go in and, like, I owed this thing something, you know, it changed my... But, I mean, I'm not stupid. You know, even having that peaceful encounters, they're not all going to be that way. No animal is.

I mean, not even humans. When you think about it, then you start hearing the stories, it's like, I don't want to quit and force the issue. So that's why I wanted to learn more before I went back. I didn't want to be foolish about it. But, yeah, just I would love to know why they do some of the things we think they do and what they're trying to tell us, if anything. I mean, we assume a lot of that because the only thing we have to compare it to the Great Apes, you know, like, why do they smack trees? Why do they do? Well, maybe they're not doing it for the same reason, but that's all we have to base it on right now.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, Dave, I appreciate you coming on, man. Hey, thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. And by the way, I loved your encounter. I heard it. And I turned in. I don't listen to, believe it or not, I don't listen to a lot of the shows.

I don't know why because it's fascinating when you do listen to them. But yours, I've been wanting to. I've heard a lot of good about it. But I was a W.W.E fan. So when I saw that Jericho had something going on, I'm like, I've got to hear this guy and see what he's, you know, is he really into it. But you happen to be on that show. And I was like, oh, my God, to have that encounter would have freaked me out.

I mean, on top of the mountain when that's happening to you. I mean, Jesus. But, yeah, I kind of stopped saying. But you're the only one that ever mentioned the arm, the elbow being in the wrong place. I don't recall if he said the lower arm or upper arm, but I know like the one I saw, the lower arm was longer. And that's when I realized, yeah, he saw something because their arms are different. There's no doubt about it. Yeah, no, they are.

They're definitely a different spot. And, yeah, Chris Jericho, I guess for the people listening, he's a good man. He really is a good man. He really is fascinated by the topic. and he loves all the weird topics and I had a great time talking with him but... Yeah, it's not. He's good people.

Well, I appreciate it, brother. Thank you again. All right, man. You be... Take care. Thanks, Dave. And that's it for tonight, everyone. Remember, if you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show,

shoot me an email, Wes, at saskwatchchronicles.com. And if you get a chance to check out the website, Sasquatchchronicles.com. Catch up on some of the subscriber shows. Until next time, everyone, have a great night. Across the country faster than the coronavirus and wagering week is your antidote. I'm Tom Martin and I'm a veteran sports analyst and respected sports handicapper who will help build ESPN's brand. I've been recognized and awarded by Pro Football Weekly and Gaming Today magazine as the honest handicapper.

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