Sasquatch Chronicles - SC EP:24 Bigfoot Roundtable with Coonbo

Episode Date: March 25, 2014

We are broadcasting for a special roundtable discussion about Sasquatch. Coonbo and Anthropologist Erik Garcia return to the show. Coonbo will be sharing experiences he has had that we did not get to last time, including his recent expedition and what's happening now in his hotspot. We will also be sharing information that has been shared with us by a government employee we will call "Mr. Black."

When I had come down this hill, I had seen this creature cross the road. They would have ripped my locked door from my truck, extracted me from my vehicle, and there wouldn't have been a damn thing I could have done about it. Look, this thing I got to notice in his eyes. His eyes was real, real evil, real sinister looking. You know, the look it was giving me. What are you reporting? What's going on now, sir?

That's the son of a bitch is about six foot nine. Yes, I'm looking right here. Welcome to Bigfoot hotspot Radio, Sasquatch Chronicles. I'm your host, Wes, along with my brother Woody, and researcher, author, and friend, William Jeffey. Let's start the show. This episode is brought to you by audible.com. Go to audible trial.com forward slash bigfoot hotspot

for your first free downloadable book and your first free 30-day trial. So what do you know, on the web today, answering questions and stuff. You know the guy told you about the days, but he emailed me right before. Yeah, now is he going to let you talk about the stuff that he sent you? Well, I got to clarify that with him because I don't really know what he wants me to sit and really want to delve into that just yet. Yeah, so you want to wait and talk about it on that. I want to make sure he's okay with it, you know, when we do it. Yeah.

Yeah, I figure we could just call Mr. Black and tell him about some of the stuff that he's said. I think we're going to get a lot more information from him. You know, especially after tonight show we would put him on some stuff that might bring out some real interesting details. And my young artist in Oklahoma is, I'm getting him from the Vendramini artwork, you know, with the changes in the eye and the nose. So at some point, I kind of want to get, I want to get Kumba to talk a little more about the noses so that Mike can do. He is spot on.

But we need a little more deep. Well, from all the popular demand, we decided to bring Kumbo back on this evening. Well, thanks for coming back on. Kumbo, we really appreciate it. Certainly. What was it? Last show? I was taking all sorts of heat for not taking calls,

but it's like I was trying to tell people of that. Man, I got 25 calls in the queue. If I sat and took everyone's call, that would be a whole show. I was having trouble getting in. I couldn't even hear hardly if the show was even known or for sure or not. But anyway, I'm here now. Yeah. Already killing the lines.

Yeah. Yeah, we should do. We got a friend of ours, Eric. I don't know if you heard him before. He has a degree in anthropology, and currently he's working on his Ph.D. in psychology. But he's had some stuff he's seen in Southern California. Good guy. You know, we thought maybe we'd kind of do a little talk more about what you wanted to talk about.

I'd be glad to answer questions or answer any questions that he may have or talk with Eric. Yeah. Any of it's okay with me. I'm easy. Let me bring him on real quick. Sure. I know he's excited to talk with you. as we all are.

Hey, Wes, how's it going? Oh, it's going pretty good. I got Coombo on and I got Will on. How's it going, guys? Very good. Eric, good to meet you. This is Tim Baker, otherwise known as Coonbo. It's great to meet you, Coombo.

I've been looking forward to talking to you. Oh, good. Thank you. I've been looking forward. I've also been very interested in talking to an actual anthropologist. You had brought it up, Coombo, and I've heard it from other people that and I guess we'll just call him Mr. Black for right now, and I'll be limited on what I say.

He had contacted us and said, you guys are close. There's not, he's a, I don't know, how are we going to describe him, Will? Well, let me say something. I was contacted by this gentleman, and much about him, you know, I probably protect her.

And action is one that's a very high-level position that you described, so the dog-faced. We'll leave it at that for listening to all of us talk, said that yes, indeed. There is, and I have a, I have a good researcher friend who has seen one of what he calls the little people. He's actually seen one here in the U.S. You know, I'm inclined to believe him, and I've heard other researchers talk about that.

I just, you know, I haven't seen one. But I know several Vietnam veterans who have seen them. They call them rock apes over there in Vietnam. am who've seen them multiple times. And that was kind of... Well, it fills a bigger picture in. It does fill a lot of information in. The ranges of these things are so widespread all over the world that it only makes

sense that there be more than one type. I agree. Do you want to describe to Eric kind of what you've seen out there, the type that you've actually seen? Okay, yeah, I'd be glad to. Eric, the first one I ever saw in October that I actually laid eyes on clearly in October of 1980 was one of the large patty types. And it was the alpha male that lives at the time. And other people besides me have seen him.

That was the one you saw over the fence? He was looking at you over the fence? Okay. Yes. Well, he was standing there. He was on my side of the fence, but he had his back to me, and he was looking over the fence, looking for the sweep feed hopper that I had moved earlier. And he had his back to me, and he, you know, he was angry because I had moved it

and had closed the, you know, closed the gate on the corral between him and where it was. And there was a six-foot, six-foot board fence between him and where I, I had moved the feedhopper. The top of the fence hit him about belly button high so he could have crawled over it easily, but he was still aggravated because I guess he'd been used to just coming up there and, you know, getting to it easily.

He had screamed a couple of times and, you know, scared my wife's death, and she ran in the house, and I came out, you know, and I knew what the noise was, and I, you know, went over there by the same time from, and I, lo and behold, I saw him standing there, and then he turned around and saw me and screamed at me.

And he was, you know, in between the screams, he was grumbling, you know, making a sort of a, you know, Tasmanian devil, the Loonie's Tunes, Tasmanian devil type grumbling noise, while very nasal sounding, though, and then also clicking his teeth while he was making it. He screamed a couple of times and started walking, around the corner of the tack room, and I could tell that he was, you know, right at about

10 feet tall because he walked directly under a limb that I knew that the bottom of that limb to the ground was 11 feet, and he, you know, the top of his head was within about a foot of that, and I decided it was time to go to the house. That was the first one that I ever saw. then sometime later, and I later saw a female out there, and she was very much like Patty, built the same way, except, I mean, she had the, you know, definite breasts like Patty. She had a little less, she was built very heavy like that, but she had a little less hair on her face than what it appears that Patty had.

but I saw her, you know, fairly close up. And then the, I moved later on, you know, years later I moved down into Mississippi in the northeast Mississippi. And the ones I saw down there were like the them and us, Neanderthal type with a more rounded head and, you know, a little bit leaner body, not quite as tall. I saw the Alpha Male on multiple occasions, and he was about eight feet tall. He was still very athletic, you know, related this story multiple times. I caught him out in the road in front of my house one time as I turned in, taught him right in my high beams, and he jumped off the road and went running down the bank of the road and jumped a creek and hit the woods.

I measured from where he was standing to where his heel hit the first time was 15 feet. The next one was where his next heel hit was 21 feet, and the next one after that was 23 feet, and then he was in the woods. You know, that's the only going to. He was still exceedingly athletic, but he just, he wasn't built like a huge NFL linebacker, like the one on our farm was. What would you estimate that the weight difference between the two would be? I would guesstimate at least 300 pounds.

That would make sense if it's two different species, though. Right. I mean, there's got to be a very large weight difference between the two. Do you find any kind of territorial markers like branch snapping or tree snapping in your areas? Absolutely. Yes, lots. Absolutely. And you can even tell, you can tell if it's a right, if it's a right,

handed bugger or a left-handed bugger by how it twists the saplings and stuff as it breaks it. Pretty good observation. Yeah, it is. Yep. I don't think I've ever heard anybody bring that up. You can certainly, when they twist it, they twist it inward towards their body. And if it's twisted in a counterclockwise direction, it's a right-handed bullet. If it's twisted in a clockwise direction, it's a left-hand.

intended booger. And I know I'll take massive flack from that from you know so-called experts, but they haven't spent enough time in the field. The experts aren't looking at that kind of stuff.

They're still stuck on tree knocking. Exactly. Yeah, that's crazy, Kumbra. I've actually never thought of that. I mean, that's common sense when you think about what you just said. I mean, it really is common sense, but I've never even thought about that. We actually have contact with another biological anthropologist in the Bay Area.

here. You know, I can ask him. I'm sure he'll write. They have, there is just like people in primates, there is a preference for hands. You know, most of the serious researchers that I've run with for years, that's

the first thing we look for when we find a break, any kind of a break, is we look for the twist. If it's just snapped over, we don't consider that as Bigfoot evidence at all. But if it's twisted as it, if it had was twisted as it broke, then, you know, it's worth looking at, you know, a little bit more closely.

Yeah, and that's something a lot of people, you know, they'll jump on the bandwagon and say, you know, any brake or anything they see like that in the wild is obviously Bigfoot without really, you know, putting a lot more thought into it. Another thing, too, you got to, you know, I can show you wonderful twists and brakes out on, in areas, where, you know, this has been twisted and twisted and twisted and broken over. But it can also be done. Cattle will worry with stuff and rub on it and, you know, and twist things up as they break it over.

So you've got to look carefully of, you know, what's going on around it. Just because it's twisted and broken over, that doesn't automatically mean that it's big foot. Kumbull, are you taking pictures of the brakes? Yes. I do. I do sometimes. I've got some pretty good pictures of some,

and I've got some pictures of some pretty good twists and breaks that I use as examples of not Bigfoot. When you take your pictures, make sure you use a wide angle and get not just close-up shots, but get shots of a wider view of the area where the brakes at, and that way you can eliminate weight at the end of the branch and also natural occurring weather phenomena. Right.

80% of the, no, I'd say 90 to 95% of the breaks that you find out there in the woods just are naturally occurring, you know, due to weather, ice such as that. You've got to have an eye for, you know, for what you're looking for, you know, that you can say is big foot related. Right. And it's usually, there are other things that go along with it, like natural breaks in the terrain. A lot of times they'll be pointing towards a water source. or a food source. There are other things that go along with it that we look forward to, before we'll say that that's probably, you know, was done by Bigfoot.

Do you have both types in your area? Oh, yeah. One of the places we went during this last week was an area down in northeast Mississippi where there are the Neanderthal types. in an area, and then the area right next to it, I would say probably the next troop over, was the big patty type. This is something that Will and I have been talking about and trying to determine if their territories overlap. Have you noticed what kind of behaviors they exhibit toward each other? I have heard we would stir up, you know, we would stir up the, um,

one of the groups, and you might hear the other group way off in the distance answer and make a vocalization. But then later on we get over there and we do some calling, and they got locked jaw. They won't say a thing. They, you know, it's like, you know, I don't know why. They could go down into, did you guys any of you guys ever seen the pictures that we've posted? I think I may have put them up on Bigfoot forums. I know I posted them a couple of times on the old Alabama Bigfoot Research Forum.

Of the about 12-inch diameter hardwood trees, sweet gum trees that were broken off about seven feet up. And we, after we'd been in there doing some investigating, and we came back and found them, and they'd shoved these three big trees down across the road. Broken them off and shoved them across the road. and the largest one, the five of us peed on it. And I came back about a week later, and it was torn to shreds, literally. It looked like a stick of dynamite had gone off in it. And you could even see tooth marks in it.

That area down there, when I would come into that area, if I went to that area first and just sat around or did a little bit of calling, I could get some response out of them. and then the next area to the east is a place to the west is a place we call Armstrong Corner and the boogers over there are more than Neanderthal-looking ones and then I went over there and I wouldn't get much response it was it was weird it was wherever I went to first is where I got the response and but when I stirred them up in one place and you know they would They would, you know, yell back or something.

Way off in the distance, I would hear the other ones would make some kind of a, you know, some kind of a noise. But later on when I got over there, you know, I wouldn't get anything. It makes you wonder, Kumbow, on why they do that, why did the Sasquatches throw the logs across roads? Because Woody and I have come across that. We've driven down in our spot, turned around, came back like a minute later. And there's this huge log in the middle of the road, like someone just threw it out there. Exactly. Like they're trying to block you in.

Like they're trying to block you in. Yeah, that's how I felt. Eric, what do you think about that? I think they're being territorial. I think that's the way of telling you get out of here. Is there a noticeable difference between the total range of the vocalizations between the two types? I think the larger ones are deeper, you know, that can get, can have deeper voices.

And I believe the larger ones use infrasound a lot more. And you find the difference when you hear one vocalize if it's a type 1 or type 2? Today, the truth, I can't. Unless I'm up really close to it. If I'm up close, yes, I can. I have found that as they approach closely, the type 1s, are more likely to hit you with infrasound, much more likely to hit you with infrasound.

You can feel the low frequency vibrating in your body. Occasionally you can barely hear sort of a waw, you know, sort of a droning, a very, very low frequency droning noise as they're getting up close to you. That could be due to the size of their chest cavity. Have you noticed on both types if they go down on all fours? Yes, they do.

Absolutely. Absolutely positively. You know, Kumba, one of the more interesting, I still think about this from the last time you were on, you were talking about where... Yes. I don't know if you would mind retelling that for Eric. It just, we talked about them being, you know,

behaviorally very similar to chimps, and then just struck and talked about them running away. Eric, we were riding on, there's a cross-country power line, a big, you know, cross-country power transmission line that goes across an area where I used to hunt. We were back there on one Labor Day weekend, and we were riding myself and a friend of mine were riding four-wheeler's back along this power line right away, and I had my son on the four-wheeler with me. He was small enough at the time that he could sit in front of me on the seat. Anyway, it was fun that there was a ridge out there that we would, that the power line crossing.

We would come across that ridge pretty fast, like the old Jeep's and the old Rat Patrol show, TV show, if you remember that, how they would come flying over the dunes. Well, we would come flying over this ridge, and there was a lot of sage, broom sage, that grew on this, on the, on the, side of this hill, the deer would lay out in there and sun themselves. And we would jump the deer up and chase them on the four-wheeler because you catch up in a big open area. So that's what we were doing. And we came flying over the ridge and down the hill three or four hundred yards from us, these five black things jumped up by the sage and go tearing off down the power line in front

of us. And I mean, they were hauling butt. We're used to chasing the deer at about, you know, 25 mile an hour, maybe. maybe approaching 30. These things were flying. I mean, these guys were doing 40 plus miles an hour. I mean, this unbelievably fast, and I said, holy crap, you know. And my buddy and I, we both stopped.

We were so amazed. And he said, what is that? What is that? Is it that hogs? And I had a pair of binoculars around my neck on a real short little strap, and I pulled them up. My look, there was a bunch of damn chimpanzees running down through there. And then I realized, it can't be chimpanzees, you know, and it hit me what I was seeing.

And then about that time, the one in the front was noticeably larger than the other four. And about that time that son of a gun, slam to the brakes, turned around looking at us. By this time, the dude was, he was past 400 yards away from us. And he turned around, he stood up, and he looked right straight at us for about a second, second and a half. and by this time the next one in line was going past him and he dropped down on all fours again and cut shot to our left and hit the wood line and the one that was a had shot past him was trying to do about a 10G turn you know and was digging and scrabbling to make that cut and get into the woods and then the other the other three just you know they just veered sharply to the

left and they piled off in the woods. And my buddy said, what was that? What was that? And I said, um, uh, what was it? What was it? I said, I knew if I said, if I said, it was a bunch of big foot, they had have given me absolute hell at the hunting camp. I'd have never heard the end of it.

You know, I just, uh, pretty much, you know, I didn't ever say to anybody what, you know, what it was. But they were, they were on, they were running quadrupedally and I mean, I mean, I just, uh, pretty much, I mean, haul and butt. I wonder how fast a chimp can run on all fours. No idea. I don't know exactly how fast they can go, but I know they can go pretty fast,

but nothing to that comparable to that speed. Do you notice the way their legs were in proportion to their body when they were running on all fours? Well, their butt was, they were more level back than chimps that I've seen in the zoo running on all fours there.

They look quite a bit like chimps, but I think their butts were up just a little bit higher. But the sage there was about three, three and a half feet tall, something like that, maybe. No, more like three feet tall. And the smaller ones, down on all fours like they were, their backs were probably below the top of the sage. And the larger one, though, his butt and everything was up about level with the top of the sage.

When he stopped and turned around and stood up, you know, we went down there, I went down there later on, and based on the height of the sage and how much I saw of him when he turned around and stood up, I guess he was probably a good six and a half, seven feet tall. you think that was the type 1 or type 2 wrote that that that's a hard question to ask you know because I don't know if you know I don't know if the larger one was you know was a grown adult or if it was still a you know an adolescent he was very heavily built or it was very heavily built at the I guess I would lean more towards the type 1 because it was it had very little taper to the body and it was very massively strongly built.

My gut feeling tells me that it might have been an older adolescent type one. I'm wondering if their pelvis is if their hips are almost double-jointed to allow them to move like that. Yeah, I wonder about that too because you go and you look at a, I know you guys have probably seen the video where the kid fell over, was at a zoo and he was leaning too far over the railing or the wall and he fell off down in the moat around a gorilla enclosure and the alpha you know gorilla came down to the silverback came down there and sort of the kid was crying he sort of checked the kid out and he like sat down there by him to sort of guard him look like he was trying to guard him against a couple

of the younger males that were, you know, getting a little bit agitated. And then later on, you know, a couple of guys went over the wall down there to rescue the kid, and there was this one gorilla, young gorilla, that was running around there, you know, acting up, acting like he was going to try to do something. And you look how fast that son of a gun was running on all fours, and look at how level his back is. is his butt wasn't as low to the ground as what you would expect it to be. But when they stand up, their legs are much more proportionally short than ours are, and much more proportionally short than the big foot I've seen.

They might go into like a bounding type gate where they're pushing off with both rear legs when they're on all fours. Yeah. And that's sort of, that is sort of what. what I think I was seeing as they were tearing down through that sage. I think that's the only way that they can be because not a lot of you played football and you had to do the crab, the crab walk to the side or forward. And it's a sense of line.

Yeah. It's hard. It's hard to do that because it's not a natural motion for us. if these things can switch back and forth, then they must have a different gate when they're on all fours. That's my hypothesis. I think so, too. Hey, Kumbu, can I ask you?

I wanted to, and I know we're kind of raping you for information, so I apologize if it feels like an interrogation. I hope it doesn't feel that way. It's just, you have had so much, you know, so many experiences, and you've seen so much, and we all trust you. So I hope it doesn't feel like an interrogation. but I wanted to ask you, could you talk a little bit about the mimicking? I know we talked about vocalizations, but can you talk a little bit about the mimicking that you've heard?

I'm kind of curious to see what Eric thinks. The ones that I've had the most experience with in the mimicking were the type two. The type ones, I haven't, well, that's not true either. I have heard them. I've heard them mimicking my dad and my grandfather calling the cattle and calling the pigs. and I've heard the type ones mimicking a lot of other animals. Well, they both do. They definitely both do it.

But I've heard them down in Texas. I've heard this a lot at different places, but we were able to teach a bunch of people all at once about how they mimic like owls, for instance. And they start off and they'll start off doing a professional. pretty good imitation of an owl. But as they sort of get going and everything, they will start mixing in some monkey-type sounds.

And they'll actually hear them start morphing into crows and roosters and just all kind of crazy things. You know, coyotes and they sort of get going really good. Of course, that's a way of knowing absolutely positively for sure. You're hearing boogers and you're not hearing just a bunch of barred owls having a big roundtable. You know, you get four or five barred owls going, and they will do a lot of primate type, you know, cackling and stuff. A lot of people are fooled by it and think that they're hearing, you know, Bigfoot.

when it's just barred owls. Bard owls can make an unbelievable repertoire of noises. But they're not going to do crows, they're not going to do chickens, you know, roosters. They're not going to do, you know, coyotes. And crap like that. Now, they've even mimicked you, haven't they, Coombo? Oh, yeah. They've mimicked me calling my dogs so effectively that my dogs jumped up and started towards them.

And then they realize, well, then they stop and they look at me, and then they look back towards a bugger, and then they look at me, and what the heck's going on here, you know? Who's calling me? Exactly. And I've heard them up on Bears' farm. You know, and Bear's grandfather had been passed away for years, and you hear them up there, you know, calling the cattle.

and mimicking bear's father, I mean grandfather. I've heard them, I've heard them mimicking, calling the cattle and the hogs on our farm in Alabama. And didn't you say it kind of sounded like a deaf, almost kind of like a deaf person, like it wasn't quite a perfect mimic. Kind of a little bit off. Yeah, it's right. And like when they were calling my dogs, you know, like I'd call them, you know, Bo, Niffy. They'd be like, Bo, Niffy. sort of like that, it'd be a little bit slurred

or, you know, they would have the pitch purty-dadgum close, but they couldn't quite enunciate clearly. Same thing with the, you know, calling the hogs, you know, we'd get out there when we would call the hogs, he'd be, whew, pig, pig, pig, you know, and the bugger'd go, ooh, whee, whee, thag, big, like that. You know, it'd be slur.

And do you think it's like monkey see monkey do you know like um or do you think they use it to lure as a as a technique to lure people or lure I mean why why do you think they do that do you think it's just more or less monkey see monkey do type thing I think it's more of that than then although I think that they used to mess with my dogs trying to catch them you know some of my Indian friends used to say that's what they would do for hunting They would mimic, you know, things like coyotes in Puyolips and lure them in to Tentany, come and eat them. The officer, Mark, I can't remember his last name. Mark Pittinger, well, that's what the locals in Puyallup were recording, and then Dennis Gates and some of the others that were with Renee DeHindon, went in vicinity.

I mean, you could, at first, if you were had an untrained year, you would swear that both recordings were the same animal. But if you, if you listen to him, you could tell the difference. You guys found the coyotes ripped apart, right, the officer? Right. Right. Yes. Yeah. And you can tell that.

You'll hear them. I mean, we've heard that gobs of times. And you'll hear one start off down there. There was, you know, and we know that it's, you know, we know that it's, that ain't a coyote. But then you hear that it's close enough that the coyotes start carrying, you know, carrying on. Well, but what's interesting is, we've heard them setting up before this we'll hear like a you'll hear like a you know a little bit of coyote racket down there

and through the real coyotes and then a little while later you know some you know 20 30 45 minutes later you'll hear like maybe a whoop off to one side and then maybe off on the other side of you'll hear you know a tree block or a limb break or something and it's like hey I'm in position position. So then we're, you know, everybody gets a recorder's on, you know, and then you'll hear. It's about to happen. Right. And then one of the, one of them will let loose with the big howl. And then the coyotes join in. Oh, and they get, they have a big howl fun, you know, big howl fest on there for a few sakes. Then all of a sudden you hear all of a sudden you're, and all of a sudden you're and it's dead quiet. Yeah.

Nothing. Yep. Yeah, we did that too up and fuel up. One of the things that we found last week was there was an old state park campground that we used to go to that we've been to a couple of times and have had really great results there. And if you guys have ever heard, we're trying to find the recordings and restore them somewhere and post them somewhere. But what we used to be posted on the Alabama Forum as the Alabama T-Rex recording. and that was done at this old state park.

It was almost done as a lark. I got there late in a bunch of my buds were already there and had their camp set up, and I came rolling up in my truck, and I was just acting a fool, being an idiot, and I got out of the truck, and I let out this big loud call. And instantly, right up the hill behind us, less than 100 yards away, that son of a gun screamed at us.

And apparently it was up there, well, it was obviously up there watching the camp. It let loose a god-awful scream. And instantly right down the ridge behind it, sort of, well, the female let out what we call the looting call, which is her call that tells all the little ones, come to me instantly. We're getting the hell out of Dodge. And then she will run in an escape direction and make that call a couple more times to make sure that the little ones know which direction to go following her.

You know, we heard that exact, you know, that sequence of things happened. By the grace of God, a guy by the name of Mike Stucky that researches with us some, he had one of his recorders going and caught it. we were playing it back later on, and one of our guys, he's from Devil's Lake, North Dakota, a fellow by the name of John, recorded it off of Mike's recorder. And later on, Mike messed up and lost the dead gun recording. So all that we have left is John's recording of a recording. But it still sounds pretty good. You can hear, he didn't get my call in it, but he got the T-Rex scream back, and then you hear him. me say, that ain't no owl.

And then you hear the looting call behind and you hear echoes and you hear another looting call off as she goes running away. So that roar was probably the dominant male. Oh, yeah. Issuing the challenge and then the female was getting the little ones out of the area. Exactly. You know, he was basically, you know, drawing the attention away from her and, you know, and he was in between us and them.

That was their response to you guys being there. What was interesting is there were some guys that were camped. We were about maybe at the most 80, 90 yards away from this guy at the very most. There were some other guys camping. Other guys, not part of our group setting up camp probably 30, 40 yards away. They opened up an extra large can of gone, grabbed their stuff through it, and their trucks in a hauled butt out of there. That was a changing moment.

Exactly. And we had the whole place to ourselves all weekend. After the change in the short. Yeah. But anyway, we went back down there. That was one of the first places. We went, and lo and behold, totally redone the place. They reopened it.

It looked like a UFO landing strip or something as we topped over a hill and looked down there, and there were lights everywhere, and there's all these. camper trails everywhere. They got all these stupid LED lights and crystal flights strong all over the place in the trees. And dozens of RVs and stuff in there are like, oh, crap. So was that in there? Oh, they've reopened the park. They had shut down for a few years and for renovations.

And they had, I guess, the state of Alabama got some money, and they totally revamped the park and reopened it. And it just so happened, we hit there the very first day it had been reopened. Oh, yeah. So we went down to the boat ramp. There was a boat ramp right there on a lake, and we went down to the boat ramp. There was a little bit of away from things. We went out, and several of us walked down onto the ramp, and I let out a couple of calls, and we instantly had the park ranger on us, and we won't know what we were doing.

He thought it was a bunch of drunk teenagers. But what was really cool is we got some really good answers from out across the lake. But we didn't hang around there very much. We left. We went down, you've heard me talk about the place we call AP Road, asshole pucker Road. Yeah. We went down there one night,

and I'm happy to report that those boogers are alive and well in doing fine. Now, the old alpha that used to charge us every time we went down there, even in broad daylight, never made an appearance. It's been 12, 15 years since we've been in there. So I don't know if he's moved on, what's happened to him. You know, he's got old and got his butt in the new alpha's not as aggressive as he was or what. But we had lots and lots of really, really good vocalizations of a lot of different types. And they got all around us.

They never came in on us like they used to every time. And we never saw. Right. We never saw any of them. We would have at least one visual and usually multiple visuals every time we went down there. We had zero visuals this time. It looks like we have a call here. Do you mind if I bring them on? I know we've had a call keys are pretty packed. 951. You're on there?

I was just wondering, this is a question to Will. What would happen if they did find out that Sasquatch was real? what do you think what happened other than logging what do you think would really happen if the first thing of course if they were proven to be real the endangered species act would kick in you know really depends on what you know how much habitat would need to be set aside both public and private land it could be a big economic impact and all the people you were probably the only one i listened to that does not speak bullshit to anyone you know what i mean well i appreciate that 951. Are you in Riverside?

Oh, I'm in Norco, actually. What was your name? Oh, Michael Crawford. Oh, hey, Mike. Hey, Kumba, what do you think about that? What do you think about if Sasquatch were to be proven real tomorrow? I mean, one type or all types. Will nailed it.

That's exactly what would happen. The Endangered Species Act would kick in. They would probably be pretty much, there would be an immediate suspension of all logging. operations on state and federal lands until they did an environmental impact study. What about the effect on the park and recreation? Look at all the sightings there in the like Yosiri and the Sooky Mountain. Could be shut down for years potentially.

Yeah, exactly. Most of our national parks would probably be shut down. Yeah, it would come to a grinding halt. And another thing I think is that probably they'd be hunted. Absolutely. There would be a certain element of people out there that would be. that would suddenly, you know, decide that they just had to have one. You know, they had to kill one.

I mean, they wouldn't be able to possess it, but the bastards would get out there and, you know, shone them anyway. And how many of those guys would end up being dead? Probably quite a few of them. Yeah, probably a lot of them. People don't understand how dangerous and capable of these. Oh, yeah, absolutely. They've got you.

When you're out there in the woods, you're in their element. They've got you if they want to. you don't have a chance. Exactly. And I don't care how heavily armed you are. No, it doesn't matter. Let me ask you this. Mike, did you have any other questions?

No, that was it. Thank you. I appreciate it a lot. Appreciate it. Thanks, Mike. Yeah, thanks, Mike. In your experience, the two types, what would you say their group structure was as far as type 1 versus type 2?

I think they're pretty much identical, that you've got an alpha male and an alpha female, and then a group of little ones, and then some, you know, betas and, you know, some ordinance that help look after the little ones. And you've got, you know, then you've got a bunch of the juveniles that aren't sexually mature yet, but, you know, they're sort of teenagers that hang around, and they're the ones that get out and stir up the mischief and, you know, like to count coup on us and, you know, look in windows, and they're, they're, they're, they're the ones more likely to go poking around homes and raiding camp sites and stuff like that. Here's a point I want to ask you about, too, and you've probably seen this.

Now, outside of the group structure, now the one alpha male you had the aggressive, one of those older individuals encounters. I think that's a high probability that a lot of the violent encounters are due to the very thing, that you've got a guy that's just been deposed, or he's just been deposed, or he had, you know, delusions of grandeur that he was going to kick the old man's butt, and he got his butt kicked instead. And so, you know, he's looking for some comeuppance, you know. There's a president in nature when an animal is kicked out of a group that it gets more aggressive or violent.

There's no more social structure for them to adhere to. Right. How many individuals would you say about the same for both? groups, four to six individuals or would you see more? I think more. You know, we ran into a huge group in Texas. These were the type ones. I know I'm going to get massive, I'm going to get flamed probably online horribly about this, but we were keeping close count of the different ones of them that were calling as they were moving in on us. And we had about 16 to 18 different voices are, you know, coming in on us.

We think that there was, all of the ones of us that were there, we believe that we had about a dozen and a half of them coming in on us. You know, that sounds like the post I just put on my blog, and they barely got out of there. The first place I lived in Mississippi, when that, troop would come through. There was a big, a big forested area to the north of me. There was a big forested area to the south of me. There was about an 80-acre field that they had to cross, and they would always cross in a creek bed. There was a creek that flowed across this field between these two forested areas. As they would start across there, you could

hear them doing their little locator calls as they would move down this creek bed. and I sat out there many, many an afternoon or evening listening to them through up or down this creek. And based on what I heard and others besides me heard, we figured that particular group had around eight individuals in it that were old enough to do the vocalizations. What's a locator call sound like? Sort of a...

Okay. Now, Kumbull, you got to back up and tell you. You got to back up and tell the story about when they were coming in on you. I think we kind of skipped over that. So there were 16 to 18 of them coming in on you? Yes. Uh-huh. So tell us what happened. I mean, what was going on? You can't leave us hanging like that. Well, we just, well, I'll tell where it was. It was at the old Boikin Spring State Park in East Texas. It was back before it was all logged out. Everything's different down the town.

There is an old sawmill that's down there in part of the state park, and, of course, there's a lot of devil worshippers, and it's haunted, and all this craft. There's a bunch of stories about that. We'd been down there. But anyway, we had done, been down there researching and looking around and had found this one area that was absolutely covered in ex formations and limb breaks and such as that.

I mean, unbelievable. I mean, you know, we were laughing about it. You know, we saw this, oh, my God, it's true. You know, all my exes live in Texas, you know. When we saw this area that they not only, they really, really, really don't want you in there. And even during the day, it was a in this area when we would walk very far back the road, it gave you the creeps. And so we decided that we were going to come back there that night and call. And on our way to the area, we passed a big horse trail ride ground.

And not far past that, we came over a little rise in the road, and lo and behold, there's two of them in the down road, crossing road in front of us. And one of them is the largest one I've ever seen. and I estimated that son of a gun was 11 to 12 feet, and it was beige. That's the only beige one I've ever laid eyes on. But it was absolutely positively beige. I mean, I had him dead centered in my high beams, 50 yards in front of me. And it was a big type one, I mean, a monstrous type one.

The son of a gun had to have weighed 1,100 pounds or better. With him was a darker one. that was nine feet tall, something like that. And we had them in the headlights, and I punched it going towards them, and they were crossing the road from our right to our left. The big alpha, I figured it was probably the alpha. He shot on across the road and disappeared into the thick pine woods there, whereas the smaller one doubled back and hit the woods,

But then he started trying to run down the side of the road and get ahead of us and zip back across the road in front of us. He was trying to follow the big one. We had two bear sitting in the passenger seat in the front, and a guy named Sammy Armstrong was sitting on the passenger side in the back seat. Both of them had spotlights in their friends. They went out the windows with those spotlights. and got the sun and coughed the one that was bright side of the road caught him in the spotlights. Plus I had my fog lights on as well as the driving light, you know, the headlights. So we had him very well lit.

And as he accelerated ahead of us and started trying to cut out the road to cut in front of us, I managed to cut him off. And he would, and plus we had, we were hitting him with those spotlights. Plus, I had all of my lights on my F-250 lit up, and he would slam on the brakes, and I would stomp on my brakes, and I'd slide to the stop. You know, my anteloc brakes would be making all this racket, and he would scream at us, and we were hitting him with those spotlights. And, I mean, we were so close on the guy.

We got up beside him. I mean, we were laughing about later that we probably gave him a sunburn, you know, with those spotlights we had. And then he would bust out and start running again trying to run ahead of us and cut a cross road ahead of us. And by the way, there was a van, another van behind us full of people. So that's why he wasn't going behind us. He would take off running and I would foreboard it to keep him from cutting across in front of us. And this happened like four times.

We finally, he finally just ran off in the woods straight away from us and quit trying to cross run in front of us. Well, that was all exciting. We turned around and we went back and we were trying to, we tried to spot him, either him with a big one, didn't see anything. So we went on to our original destination. We got there, we got out of the truck. And mind you, this is a pretty good, pretty good size group of people. There were probably, there were four people in my truck and in the van behind us.

There were at least two, there was at least seven people. in the van behind us. So there was probably 11 people plus my dog, Bo. There might have been a dozen people. I don't know. We got out, we hunted around for about 20 days to let things calm down and get quiet. And then I did one call and immediately got an answer back in the woods. And so I did another call.

And, oh, my God, the woods just lit up, you know, with noises. And it just kept being more and more and more of them. And we started hearing them coming from different directions coming towards us. And it kept getting louder and louder. And again, and that's where we started hearing this wild morphing into stuff. They would start out, you know, something would be doing owl calls and it would morph into a crow or a rooster or something or even like a cow bellowing or something.

And we heard jackass noises, you know, donkey brain. noises. I mean, it was unbelievable the racket that we were getting. But they were slowly moving in on us. And we started trying to keep track of how many different individuals we were hearing, how many different voices we were hearing because they had us surrounded on three sides. Back to the, I got all screwed up in my direction from there for some reason, but back behind us the way we had come, there was no noise whatsoever coming from that direction.

However, we had a thermal device with us, and we kept picking up multiple thermal signatures behind us. That sounds familiar, doesn't it, Wes? Yeah. But there was no noise coming from back there, but there were still, there was two or three of them back there sneaking in on us. And they kept getting closer and closer. Well, he got to a point where my dog, Bo, had had enough. And he, at first he was up just right almost between my legs, and then he decided it was time to go to the truck.

So he was really whining and carrying on it. So I let him go get in the truck. They kept getting closer and closer. Suddenly, at first it was like a big, almost like a party atmosphere. They were all having, it's like they were all having a big time putting on this show for us. I mean, that was one of the impression you got. I mean, it was very amusing, very entertaining. All of a sudden, and we could tell there was this one that we figured was the alpha

because his falls were a lot deeper than the others. And all of a sudden, that very deep voice instantly changed. Everything changed. It went from being merely just a bunch of cutting up and carrying on under a bunch of limitations to being a very, very threatening. At that instant, that he made the signal, all of the other ones instantaneously changed.

Bear and I finally realized, and we had quite a few novices with us, and we suddenly realized we were in trouble. We had screwed up. We had stayed around there too long. These were type of ones? Yeah. We started trying to get people into the vans.

Oh, no. Oh, we don't know what we're just getting into hell. We were literally having to shove people in vehicles. And fortunately, there was enough of us, at least half of us that were there, were experienced. And they helped us get the others loaded up. Bear and I were the last ones in. Bear had just shoved the most hard-headed one of the novices into the van that was behind us and had just gotten the door shut.

And I was standing there with a light trying to, with a purple spotlight, shining into the brush and everything around, trying to keep them held at bay. And he got the person shoved into the van, managed to get the, with the help of another experienced person in the van, and managed to get the door shut.

And about that time, started bursting out of the brush on his side of the vehicle. He took off running to the truck. All of a sudden, there was that huge alpha that we had seen earlier. Back up the road, it was nearly 12 feet, the big beige one. He came bursting out. Bear was hauling butt to the truck. He would have had Bear if he wanted him, absolutely, positively.

Bear ran past him. As he was going past, he reached out and swatted it, Bear, and caught him across the back, just nicked him across the back of his head and his shirt collar and down his back. Got Bear up into super overdrive. And, yeah. Holy crap. It absolutely scared the crap out of me.

I literally thought he was going to yank Bear's head off. I thought he was going after him. but it was obvious he didn't as bear went by he did take another step towards him he just swatted it as he went by well do you think that maybe they they did they might have been wondering if you guys had guns on you i don't know uh we didn't have guns so only we had we had we had probably had some firearms in the vehicles but none of us had any on us and we jumped in the we jumped in the in our vehicles and we took off out of there, and we went to another location that we'd scouted out about three or four miles away by road, which is probably only through the brush only two miles.

And anyway, as we left, the noise was absolutely deafening. And that was another thing. As they were coming in on us, and I've experienced this several times in the past, they will start hitting you with so many calls all at once it becomes disorienting. That's what they were doing to us in. we were also being hit with infrasound. There were people getting disoriented, sort of. And I could feel it vibrating in my chest in my body.

And I occasionally would get little, I would detect the low speed rumbling and, you know, this really super low speed, super low frequency humming. And a couple of other guys detected it too, you know, and realized what was going on. All that line is pretty similar to what chimps do when they're hunting other monkeys. Playing with fire, you might get burned. What changed? I mean, what made them, besides short tempers flying around?

I mean, what changed from the party atmosphere to now they're going to last time to fight? We don't know. It's like, I don't know if they were expecting us to leave, and we didn't. And so they had to, they bumped it up a notch to make us leave. I will say that we had a number of women in the group. Now, that's who, we became, Bear and I became very concerned for the safety of the women. Now, whether they would have, if we hadn't gotten everybody in and gone peeling up there when we did, if they would have nabbed one of the women, I have no idea.

Were any of the women, you know, was it that time of the month for them? Oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely. Aye. And one of them had just gone over, we hadn't been there very long at all, and one of them went over there in the edge of the woods and did her business. And so had left, you know, left the big smell there and everything. Well, we know that the females wouldn't have been involved in this action. Yeah.

So, yes, it was one of the women that was at that time of the month, and she had had, you know, urinated there in the woods. and not very, I mean, not 30 feet from our trucks there. And so. Why do women always, why do women always ruin everything? Well, I don't know if you call that ruined it or not. I mean, we probably would just spend another plane all night, you know, out hollering at boogers, you know, but it made, it made for a very exciting night. But you don't think of women anymore than, is what you're saying, Kubo.

You don't take women out anymore then. Yes, I do. I'm just joking. Yeah. Yeah, no, we do. In fact, I think we have a little bit, often have, you know, better success when we've got some alone. I just take slow runners with me. Yeah.

Yeah. Cumbos bringing the squash beat. Yeah, exactly. Everyone here at Bigfoot hotspot Radio would like to thank audible.com. Audible.com is the internet leading provider of audiobooks with over 100. 50,000 different titles to choose from. To download a free audio book of your choice, go to audibletrial.com forward slash big butt hotspot.

Can you talk a little bit about the dog man and maybe some of the first-hand accounts that you've been given? I know a lot of people ask Will and I about the dog man, and I really don't know much about the dog man, to be honest with you. But I know, I believe that you had a lot of firsthand accounts that were kind of related to you about the dog man and kind of the aggressive behavior of the dog man. Okay. Okay.

The first firsthand report that I ever received was from two ladies that worked for me, and I was on temporary duty down working in a little place called Union Springs, Alabama. And there were two ladies that worked for me down there that were from Troy, Alabama, and they drove up U.S. Highway 29 every morning from Troy to Union Springs. They came in one morning, both of them just all torn up and, you know, upset and crying. And, you know, these were ladies up in their 40s. I'd say, you know, one of them was in probably early to mid-40s, one of them probably in mid-to-late, possibly even 50.

Very dependable, very straight-street. shooters, you know, they were always perfect attendants on time. I mean, these are model employees, just really good ladies that I depended on a lot, you know, to do things right. And we were, we were building so very complicated electronic equipment there at a government contractor there. They came to work very, very upset. They were crying. They didn't want to talk about it. Finally, we had our little morning kickoff meeting and everything. Everybody, everybody went out there, well, I call the ladies and I say, hey, y'all come in, you know, come on to my office. And they came, they very reluctantly told me that they were on their way to work, and

they came around a curve in the highway, and Highway 29 is a big curvy through that part of the country. They came around a curve, and standing there right beside a curve sign, you know, one of the big yellow signs that's got the, it's got the big curve, Sid Maloney. Standing there right beside this sign was this big werewolf standing there. there. They said it was looking right at them. And the lady that was driving, it scared her so bad, she stomped on the brakes right at first, and it stayed there on the side of the road. And the car ended up spring down, you know, just about net right next to the thing. And it looked in the window at the lady who was on the passenger side. And, you know, she swore up and down.

it felt like that it was trying to steal her soul. They both described it as just intensely evil the way it looked and how it was looking at them. And the lady said that she felt like it was trying to steal her soul, that it touched her deeply. And they went on and finally the lady was driving stomped on the gas and they shot on past it. And they never looked back, never went back, anything like that. Well, I convinced them to take me down there.

I mean, they had to go home that way anyway. I convinced them to let me follow them that afternoon after work and for them to ask them to show me where this happened, and they did. And I found where something had come up the side of the road from down in a creek bottom. And I found where the grass was mashed down right there beside this road sign, and based on where they said its head was, I did some measuring and determined that the thing was nine feet tall. Well, I got to looking on the other side of the road,

there was about a 13-foot-tall dirt bank that went up, you know, a high bank on the other side of the road. I got over there and got to looking, and lo and behold, I found six, six and a half feet off the ground, I found a track. and it was the ball of the feet and the toes, and toes had claws on them. That was really weird because I had never seen claws on a big footprint. I've heard other people describe it, but I'd never seen it, and I've never seen it since.

I got to standing back at a distance in looking, and I thought I saw another print up high on the bank. and so I called around and sure enough when I got up above it was looking down, there was the second print. And again, it was just the toes and the ball of the feet, but also claw marks. And the first print, if I remember correctly, was I think it was the right foot. At about six and a half feet, the other print was just, below the rim of the bank, probably about maybe 12 feet above the shoulder level there below, and it was the left foot.

And then presumably up on the top of the bank, you know, I didn't find another print at the top of the bank, although I looked around. And that's all I found of it. I mean, that's all the evidence I found there. However, I was down there for several months, and I got to talking to a lot of people and there were a lot of sightings of a very belligerent bugger that was appearing out north of Troy. And there was an old fire tower site that was about, as a crow flies, less than a mile a half west of there where these ladies saw this,

this werewolf-looking one, the dog-faced one, you know, across the road. There had been a number of sightings around there were kids to go out there and drink beer and stuff like it built campfires. There had been people run out of there several times by one that was very belligerent, very loud, would scream at them, would chase them. There was a report of some hunters that were hunting on a piece of property near there that had been chased out of a field at night, and I think they even ran through a gate trying to get out of there.

But there are a lot of reports of very, very... belligerent encounters there out north of Troy at that time. And this was in 1984. I never heard a firsthand report of one until some years later. We had become friends with some researchers up in southeastern Ohio. They were producing a lot of recordings and stuff that we were helping them go through and listen to and taking a lot of people. pictures and stuff. Well, they were on an outing up in an area, at a creek bottom where they had a lot

of encounters. Several of them had been walking up this creek bottom sort of abreast, like three or four of them. All of them started feeling very, very apprehensive, and they all felt that they didn't need to go any further. Well, one of them had a camera there and just started panning and shooting. pictures out in front of them. Well, they started looking at those pictures and didn't see anything, but one of the guys was pretty sure that he had seen something as the guy was shooting those pictures. So one of my buddies, he used to post under the name of Bubba Gump, his first name is Jim. He does a lot of photographic analysis, really, really, he was really good, really ahead of his time.

So they sent those pictures to Jim. So Jim and I sat over to his house one evening. We were going through those things frame by frame by frame looking at them. And lo and behold, on this one of the sequences, we looked at the frames that they said that they thought there was a bugger in, and there wasn't one there. We didn't see anything. But the very first photo in that sequence, over on the left-hand side, the side away from where they thought that there was something,

we found back in the shadows, but it just stood, it stands right out. You can see it clearly. You mean, you can see the pupil of the, there's one of the dog-faced ones standing there looking at you. And I mean, you can see the pupils of its eyes. I mean, I had a very good camera and was using very good film. And this damn thing, you can see its fangs. you can see the pupils of his eyes, you can see its down nose, you can see the wrinkles in its snout. I mean, you can't quite see the ears.

Unfortunately, there is a shadow that covers the back part of his head. And now, the women, when I asked the women about ears, because I was curious about that, they couldn't really remember much about the ears. One of them said, well, I think its ears are sort of laid back. And the other one said, well, it had. ears, but they were standing up. And I said, like, what did it look like? And they said, well, she said, well, like dog ears.

And I said, well, like a German Shepherd. No, no, not. And then she thought of me, she said, sort of like the ears on a, you know, on a Doberman Pincher where they've been clipped, you know. And, you know, because Doberman pinch your ears aren't as full and as big as German Shepherd ears. And she said, that's what it mattered. And the other lady said, well, yeah.

that's sort of with an impression that she got too. But she thought their ears were more laid back. And the other lady said, no, she thought when this is the lady that was on the passenger side that the thing looked right in the window at her, she thought that the ears were standing up. But they both said that there were dog-type ears. Now, this picture that we've got, it's really hard to see the ears. You can sort of begin to make them out.

and they are maybe a little dog looking, but I can't really comment on them, you know, there. But the eyes, you can see the pupils of its eyes, and the thing about it is a son of itch has got big-ass fangs, very clearly that you can see. And it's got a very dog-like nose on the end of it. I mean, you can see the nostrils and everything. What I've looked like a baboon.

The sound is not as heavy looking as a baboon. Yeah. It doesn't sound like that. That's what's weird. It's a lot of people, because I've been listening to a lot of accounts with Dogman, and I've been kind of looking things up on the Dogman. A lot of people describe it like a German Shepherd or just like Kumbo described, which throws me off because I wanted to ask you, Coombo,

did they explain to you how it was standing? Was the knee backwards, like inverted? They said it was just standing there like a guy standing there on the side of the road, just waiting on a car to pass. And now the backwards thing, I think that's people are, I think people may be seeing it coming up, you know, because they're going up hills and stuff like that, and because of the way their foot is made, I think their heels are up off the ground a lot. Yeah, that's exactly what the point I was just going to try to make is that most of the quadrupeds,

they walk on their toes and the balls of their feet. And what people think is it's a bent backward knee is actually their ankle. Right, it's their ankle and their heel. Yes. And I have found a lot of tracks that all you get is the ball of the foot and the toes. The thing about the picture of the one that we've got, the snout of it, the fangs and everything look a lot more like a boar hog, a Russian boar hog, the way that the fangs are, then they're not, the lower ones aren't as horizontal as a boarhog. but you get more of that impression than you do of a dog or something. I mean, the dogs, you know, just don't have, you just don't see the fangs and everything sticking out, you know,

when they're just sitting there looking at you. But this, of a gun, you can see, you can see upper and lower fangs on both sides of its snout. If you go back and look at the old Teddy Roosevelt story, where the one trapper he was laying on, you know, face down, in the back of his neck. It sort of made me think of this particular description you're giving. I saw an account where they saw a group of them, like a pack. Well, let's talk about that. Years ago, we were on an outing up in the neighborhood of Hitchcock, Oklahoma,

and got a report pack of them. that lived in this one particular area. We spent the night out there a couple of nights, and all we saw or heard was rattlesnakes. We didn't have any encounters or didn't hear any vocalizations, had no reactions to anything that we did, and we struck out there. However, there was a gang of us used to hang out.

I don't know if you guys remember any of the old Paltalk website where you could get on there and it was an audio chat. And plus you could, well, you could also you could type in stuff, but you could also send and receive files and things, pictures and stuff. And we used to open a big foot room on Pal Talk two or three times a week. Had some folks come on there one night and they got to asking some, you know, guarded questions and stuff. So I got them off into a private room and got to,

It got my curiosity, I've got to ask them some questions. Well, they said that they, you know, that they'd been having this very large, you know, creature coming up around their house and had been harassing them or been, I shouldn't say harassing them, but have been watching them and looking over a hedgebush into their backyard multiple times, you know, they'd seen it. And you could tell that the couple was really upset, especially the woman. And I was asking him, you know, what did it look like? and they were him and hauling around.

The husband said, well, it's got a snout. And I said, okay. I said, it's sort of doglike? And they said, yeah, sort of. And the woman said, and fangs. I said, let me send you a picture here. So I sent him a picture of just a regular old bugger. No, no, that wasn't it.

But it was a pretty bad looking picture. And I think it was like a drawing or something somebody had made on a website somewhere. No, that wasn't it. So then I sent him a picture. I sent him the picture of the one that we've gotten out of South Dakota. Instantly, the woman goes into hysterics. And the guy is just – you could tell it's just hit him upside the head. And he's like, you know, trying to – he's almost crying himself.

and finally he says, you know, yeah, that's it. The wife is just coming to unglued. And so, okay, I said, tell you what, I've got to come through Oklahoma here pretty quickly. I'll come out there. And this is up near north of Tulsa, near Lake Ulaga, and near the little bitty town of Foil, F-O-Y-I-L, Oklahoma. And I went up there, found their place. and that bugger was about, again, that dude was standing there looking over a hedge fence behind their house that was about 9,000 feet tall. I actually, there was a bunch of bamboo growing there, and I cut a big long bamboo puff.

And I do a lot of target shooting, so I always have paper plates in my truck and a staple gun to staple them up on things. So I stapled this paper plate onto the end of this bamboo pole, and I got behind the hedge on the other side of the hedge. I told them to get up there and stand on their back porch in different places where they had been where they saw the thing, and I raised it up and told them to tell me when the plate was up there where the things had been. And they consistently stopped me at around a little lower 11 to about 12 feet.

This is only the second, you know, 11 to 12 footer that I've ever come across. I saw one myself personally, and now here I've got a fan report of one. I looked around, I scoured that area. The soil was real sandy. It was perfect place to find tracks and everything. I scoured the area, and I didn't find any tracks, but they said that there'd been a couple of rains since they had seen it last.

Their behavior seems a lot like what we hear about in the type 1 and type 2s. I mean, the dog man seems to be the same type of things. they look in windows. They tend to be a little bit more, be a little bit more aggressive, but their behaviors are the same. When you say, Kumboh? Yeah. I mean, obviously, those guys that got that picture one that we have,

I mean, they don't just attack you on site. I mean, they do watch. Like you said, I think they're more like, you know, their behavior is more like the type one type twos. And as far as body makeup and from the descriptions that I've gotten from, you know, from first-hand accounts, they're like a type one body with a werewolf head on it, you know. Now, these people had, they discussed, I talked to them about the ears as well. I went to the same thing, you know, asking about the ears.

The guy instantly, soon as I asked about the ears, he said, he said, just like Spock's ears, but more pointy. Yeah. And the woman said, no, no, it had, they had, there was fur on the ears. It was like dog's ears. And I said, like a German Shepherd, she said, no, no, no, not that big, you know, not that big. And I said, well, you know, like a labs or something? And she said, oh, no, they stood up. And I said, well, what about, you know, what about a Dublin pincher?

And she said, yeah, you know, she thought, she thought, she said, yeah, pretty much like a Dublin painter. I said, well, what about a pig bull, you know. And she said, no, no, no. She said they were taller. They were like the Doberman Pinchers ears. And so there I got two reports firsthand that were sort of like Doberman Pincher ears. These reports were years apart. You know, this was in 1984 when the women down in Troy saw the thing.

And this was up in the, you know, like 2002 or something like that, 2001, 2002 when I'm out there at Foil, Oklahoma. I feel bad. I feel like that I've hogged up too much of the show. I was wanting to hear more of the anthropologists. No, this is great for the thing because you're awesome. This is great because we're learning. You have a lot of first-hound experience that we don't get over on this coast. And I think it's opening a bigger picture for behavior and anatomy.

I know, I could go another three hours. I can go another three hours. I appreciate that, guys. I really, I wish that back when I was really getting started in this big, big back in the early 80s and was traveling around the country a lot more than I do now, I wish that, you know, we'd have had the Internet back then and I could have hooked up with, you know, Renee DeHendon and a bunch of the big West Coast. those guys when I was out in the West a lot more and we could have done some research together.

Although at the time, you know, when I did first make contact with some of those guys, they didn't believe a lot of the stuff that, you know, that we were saying the things that were normal behavior, you know, in the east part of the country. You know, having you known those guys, one of their problems? I took tremendous... criticism when I started, you know, saying publicly that they climbed trees and that they, and that you could call them and that they, you know, and my buddy Bear, he got crucified for saying that, you know, that they traveled, you know, quadrupedally, that they could, you know,

run bipedal or quadrupedal. And, you know, he got crucified for that. I mean, we got, we got slaughtered so many times over things that now are just accepted as normal. Well, Cumber, I'd say I'd sure like to go out to the field with you and do some work. Yeah, me too. I'd be welcome to have you guys come with us. We've had folks from, you know, up north, from, you know, from Massachusetts, New Hampshire. We've had a guy come all the way from New Zealand to go in the field with us.

We've had, you know, people from all over in the field with us. Coombo, I can't thank you enough for being on the show. And Eric, too, as well. I mean, it's always a pleasure to talk with you guys. Like I said, I can listen to Coombo talk for the rest of the night. If you're ever up in Washington, Coombo, look me up. I'll take you out for a beer. Wes and Will and Eric, it's been great talking to you guys.

I wish we could do more. Well, you're welcome to get my contact information from Will. We can continue talking if you like through email. Yes, I would. Yes. I'd be glad to answer any further questions you have and keep appraised upcoming outings that we're getting ready to go on. I mean, I'm covered up with research areas that I've tried to get back to new places to explore. Oh, that's one thing.

We did get to go out and we went to go to a new area that we'd never been to before. and unfortunately got there and it was a major logging operation going on so we totally struck out but it was an area where when I was a boy we heard some terrific vocalizations from a fairly close range

and I had never been back in there before since then Will do you think they do these sudden logging operations to drive them out I suppose it's possible I used to think that there was maybe some kind of conspiracy or something, but you know, you got to log it when it's ready. That's right.

And it's, you know, they like, you know, it's, I think it's just, I think it's more coincidental. I went, although when you talk to a lot of serious researchers that have spent a lot of time in the field, it's surprising how many of their research areas get logged out. Right. Yeah, it's a little too coincidental sometimes. Yeah. So I have, you know, somewhat, a little bit mixed feelings about it,

although at one time I was exceedingly hard overseeing that, yeah, it's a conspiracy. Yeah, you go in there, and if you talk too much about it, they just come in and log it all out and, you know, run out as an easy way of dispersing the book so that nobody else can find them. Well, if you're ever up in Washington, Combo, look me up. Like I said, I'd love to take you out, show you the areas up here, and absolutely love that. I know. I'm tipped at the takes on site. off work and drive up to see you west. Do it, Eric. I'll buy your beer.

Come up this way. Buy a beer. I'll take you up. Take you up to a couple of different areas and take you around. You guys have a great night. All right. You too. Thank you. All right, guys. I'll talk to you guys this week. Okay, thank you. I want to thank everyone in the chat room for listening. And I want to thank Kumbo and Eric again for coming on.

Thanks, well, everyone else, have a great night. Thanks for listening. and we will see you next week. It's sweeping across the country faster than the coronavirus and wagering week is your antidote. I'm Tom Martin and I'm a veteran sports analyst and respected sports handicapper

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