Sasquatch Chronicles - SC EP:271 Monsters Among Us

Episode Date: November 10, 2016

This is a continuation of last night's Behind the Scenes show. Linda Godfrey, who has been investigating Dogmen sightings for many years, stops by the show to talk about her new book "Monsters Among Us: An Exploration of Otherworldly Bigfoots, Wolfmen, Portals, Phantoms, and Odd Phenomena." The book can be found on Amazon HERE, as well as your local book store. I will be talking to Linda about what her thoughts are on Dogman and their behavior. Linda will also be sharing some encounters with Dogmen that she has investigated. Check out Linda's website HERE.

Black thing go from left to right, and I thought, I'm going to die out here and no one's ever going to know. I couldn't believe what my eyeballs was showing me. I'll never forget how evil the eyes were. It was horrible. I mean, I've never seen nothing that evil. It ran towards me at a rate that I can't even explain, turned and stared at me. And this look of, I just want to kill you. I want to say it was human, but it wasn't.

He was yelling out, maybe grab a gun, grab a gun. I was like, for what? He said, just grab a gun. And there's footprints all the way to the door of my house. It had went inside my garage all the way to the door. 911, what are you reporting? Sure. Get somebody out here. What's going on now, sir?

That son of a bitch is about six foot, nine, I don't know. Do you see him now, sir? Yes, I'm looking right at him. Uh-oh. You're listening to Sasquatch Chronicles. Check us out online at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. If you've had an encounter, email me. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com.

Welcome to the show, everyone. Thanks for being here tonight. Got a great show plan for you tonight. I'm going to be speaking to Linda Godfrey, who is the author of Monsters Among us. You can pick it up on Amazon. Also leave our nice review. if you get a chance to check it out.

Thanks again for being here tonight. I can't wait to get Linda on. If you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. And I hope everyone enjoyed the open mic night the other night. You know, it was just us sitting around talking about different things behind the scenes. And it was kind of the first time we'd ever done anything like that. Some things got off topic that, you know, I wish we wouldn't have gone so far off topic on certain things.

things. And I wasn't expecting to spend that much time on it. But, you know, I think for a future, you know, something like this once a month where we just openly talk about, you know, different reports we've taken from witnesses and just our take on different things. You know, not necessarily going off on other researchers. That's not really what I envisioned. That's just kind of the way it turned. But that's not really what I want to do. What I want to do is talk about the things that go on behind the scenes and the things that we discuss and just give you guys a little bit more insight on different things that happen behind the scenes and different conversations that we have. I figure why not have them on the air as opposed to in private.

And that way you guys get to hear them. I'm sure there'll be other open mic night shows you guys won't like. And I hope there's ones that you guys do like. But I thought it'd be fun to test it out and just do an open mic night, see what the guys have to say, see what I have to say, and not have such a constructed show where it's bam, bam, bam, bam, and then we're out. Have it more of a relaxed, you know, let's have a conversation, that sort of thing. But, you know, I hope you guys liked it. If you don't, I completely get it. Let's jump into it tonight. I know Duke will be joining me on the show here.

Linda, welcome to the show. Thanks for coming on. Oh, it's great to be here. Thank you for having me. What I'd like to talk to you about, Linda, is the history of dogmen. You know, I always thought the dogman reports were kind of people were misidentifying the creature. People were, they were seeing something else. There's no way there's an upright running around canine on two legs. It just doesn't exist. And the more I started talking to people with regard to Sasquatch Chronicles, I'd come across these dogman reports.

And what fascinated me about the dogman reports, People were very, very consistent on what they were seeing. Yes. How did you start out with looking into dogmen? Well, it wasn't exactly my dream vocation. You know, I'd never actually really thought about them too much. I joined a newspaper in southeastern Wisconsin in the very late 80s, 90, 91, something like that, because I wanted to do editorial cartoons for them.

And just out of happenstance, they asked me to become a reporter. And one of my very first assignments was to check out the rumors that people around Elkhorn, Wisconsin, which happened to be my hometown, were saying that they were seeing what looked to them. They'd say, if there was such a thing as a werewolf, this is what it would be like. You know, it was standing on its hind legs, looked like a big German shepherd or wolf, shaggy brown fur, big fangs, long muzzle, pointed ears. usually they've reported a tale. So I knew right away it was not anything normal, you know, because you just don't see wolves and dogs wandering around in the wild on their hind legs. My dad was from northern Wisconsin, and I spent a lot of time up in the very heavily forested

northern half of the state, you know, treading around pine bogs and things like that. And I had a pretty good feel for what was natural and what wasn't. but there were continuing reports and I happened to be working with our county animal control officer who had a middle file folder that he showed me it was labeled werewolf now when you've got a when you've got a county animal control officer with a file folder marked werewolf into which he's compiling all these reports with contact information from people who were calling in and saying I saw this thing you know that was enough to say that start me out. And I was curious because I thought if somebody was pulling a hoax, you know,

why would all these people be calling the animal control officer and leaving their name and contact information when they could easily be traced back for fraud? So I started looking into it. I went and interviewed them. They seemed like normal if frightened people. It wasn't just a couple of, you know, rowdy teenagers. There were elderly people, farmers, blue collar, white collar, young people like seventh graders. I was on a sledding operation. And most of them didn't know that other people were seeing this thing. So I wrote it up. It went national in about two weeks. The early Inside Edition was out here and sci-fi's new in search of. Radio and TV shows everywhere. and it became nationally known.

And I worked for that newspaper for 10 years. And at the end of the 10 years, I was continuing to get reports from people because that started right away. People started calling me and writing me. And that was before the Internet, by the way, and telling me they had seen things that look like giant wolves, but also Bigfoot and also giant birds and other unidentifiable things. So I decided that I should really write something to put down how it all happened with the Beast of Bray Road and what all the witnesses said. And so there would be a good record.

And lo and behold, when that got published, it just ignited another storm of more reports, more attention. And so this has been going on now for like 25 years. And I don't consider myself an expert on the topic because so much. much as unknown. I consider myself a very long time student and investigator, a student of the phenomenon and an investigator of all the things that seem to go on around it. And when people report the dog man, what is it they're actually reporting to you? What are they describing to you that they're seeing?

It's usually described as a canine between five and a half and seven feet tall, normally around six, you know, it's the average. They'll say it had long muscle with fangs, on the top of the head, pointy ears, usually large-sized pointed ears. They'll say that it looked almost completely canine in most cases, but it was walking on its hind legs and running on its hind legs. And sometimes there'd be more than one of them doing this, which is really unusual. It's not a supernatural thing to walk on your hind legs. Any mammal can do it if they've got, say, injured limbs or they're trained by people. But in the wild, they generally don't because it's not how they're built to function best.

You know, if you're made with as a quadruped, that's the way that you generally get around most easily and hunt. You know, it generally impairs their hunting ability. So there was all of that And they would say And I still get this to this day People will say You know It ran really easily

On its hind legs But the legs were on backwards And then I know they're really observing Because canines run on their toe pads It would be like you or I running on tip toes And you know Our heel is going to be up off the ground Well that's how they are

Normally Their toe pads Usually we'll see like four or five toe pads With claws are, you know, on the ground, but then what we would call the heel and ankle joint, but it might be referred to as the hawk or where the dewclaw is, is up above the ground. So we're expecting to see a knee swinging forward, but instead we're seeing that what would be analogous to the end part of our own foot up riding up high.

Sometimes if they're getting ready to spring at something, and I've actually found and photographed these kinds of tracks where you see a big, like six-inch, wide, five-toed, canine tract with, or print, excuse me, with claws on the end of it. And then you'll see another imprint that makes the whole thing, you know, up to 10 inches long. And that other imprint is simply that hot coming down and contacting with the ground before it springs away. Or sometimes it just needs it to support itself better in like very muddy or soft ground. but very uh the the coat color would vary just among what you would normally expect in uh any wolf pack from black to um kind of a grizzled gray to shaggy brown and then the eye shine um if people

happen to see they have lights hitting their eyes or um some other light source they almost invariably describe it as yellow, yellow, green, golden, that sort of color. So now there's a smaller percentage that we can get to those later that do have a consistently different appearance, but I think they're perhaps not quite the same phenomenon. And I want to get into that. One of the things, going back to the tracks, I know I found one in Texas, and I can't say it was a dogman track because I didn't see what left the track, but it reminded me, of a very large canine. It had five toes.

And what was interesting about it is the heel went back to almost like a V, almost a natural V is where the heel went back. And I can tell whatever put its foot down, it put its whole foot down, but the weight of the foot fell on the ball and the toes. But the heel of it actually looked like a V, and it really threw me off when I saw that. And one of the things, you know,

when I've been studying Bigfoot, and I've been doing it for a very short time, but one of the things I started finding out really quick is that there's different types. It really depends on the region you run into. Sometimes people say it looked like an ape. Some people say it looked like a monkey. Some people say it looked very human, what they saw. And you've been studying the dog man longer than I think anyone else out there.

You were doing it before it was quote unquote popular to talk about the dog man. Oh, that's for sure. It was like, what? You're talking about what? care about that. Yeah. It don't exist until I'd say maybe the past few years. Yeah.

Have you noticed that there's different types of dog men or do people talk to you about what they've seen? And can you talk a little bit about the different types that you've, as you've talked to witnesses? Yeah. Well, you know, what we've been talking about is the most general type cited where it looks like, say you saw a dead one. You would just say, oh, that's a really big dead wolf or

maybe a wolfdog hybrid, you wouldn't really know exactly what it was, except the one thing that I hear reported over and over is people will say, you know, it had claws, it had pause with claws, but they were longer, they were elongated. And that means that it's probably a little easier for this creature to balance and that it gives it pause a little more flexibility if it wants to say carry off a nice hunk of deer carcass, which they've often been seen doing, by the way. And so that is probably the most consistent thing with that ordinary type. And I'm talking about the way people are driving along the road, it pops up out of the ditch,

or it runs across in front of their car, or they see it on its haunches, and then it jumps up and springs away. There still is an uncanny aspect to these things, and I can talk about that later too, but this is the most general type. Then there's another type, and oftentimes this seems to occur in places where there are a lot of Native American sacred places. It can be in a city if something used to be there. And these are often observed kind of lurking around people's backyards, peeping in their windows and doors, that sort of thing. They're often described as with a red eye shine, which is a little different than the yellow.

Not always. Sometimes it's the yellow. But what's different about these, especially the ones that come up to the house or even in the house occasionally, not very often, but it has happened. You know, if you look at your picture your own dog sitting up and begging, and there's a smooth line from, you know, under its jaw down to, you know, where its body starts curving out. but there are no shoulders. The paws and the legs are right in front and they sit in front and kind of balance it. Well, these other ones have shoulders and they've got a more humanoid body. People will describe them as super muscled, super ripped, with big biceps and all kinds of maliness in various forms.

And oftentimes they're described as very dark for, often black. Sometimes they're said to have like kind of a razor edge on the rough of their neck rough kind of like hogs do, but they're not hogs. So that would be the second type. There are some that seem to be more like the black phantom dogs of England, you know, where people will see them. They may be on all fours. They may be walking on their hind legs. And they'll be seen to kind of fade in or and or fade out from. reality, although they can leave footprints and other evidence behind them.

So those are just three ways. Occasionally, people will describe the more regular canine type as having a shorter pug nose, and that doesn't surprise me. It's never all the way close to being a human face, like Bigfoot or Sasquatches. They'll say it reminded me of like a, oh, a boxer is one comparison that I'll hear. And since I think that there's a good chance some of these maybe wolf dog hybrids, that doesn't surprise me if you get some variations in there that look like different breeds of dogs, along with the more pure wolf or German shepherd-looking ones.

But between these types, it is fairly consistent. You know, there's a few variations on those. Very rarely, I have some incidents of this in the new book, but I hadn't received many of these for a long time. Once in a great while, people will report them withholding on. which is not usual, but it's something that occurs enough. And John Keel talked about this, too. For some weird reason, they're often seen in platter or checkered flannel shirts.

And Keel had mentioned this. Either that or like hoodies, some type of robe with a hood or just a hoodie jacket with a hood. And the book, again, it's called Monsters Among Us. She can get it on Amazon. on. Linda, when you get reports like that where they're wearing clothes, what's your take on that? I mean, do you kind of question a little bit what the witness actually saw, whether they're seeing it with clothes on? Well, you know, I try to vet every report, especially if it's something that I think is worthwhile being put in a book. I don't put every report that I get in my books. You know, I put the ones in that I think, you know, the reader will find a lot of value in.

and where I can corroborate some of the things, and especially if it serves to illustrate some avenue of exploration that I'm taking. So I do really try to interview these people more than once if I can. You know, if I get an email, I'll try and talk to them by phone, or at least conduct a more extensive email interview. Any facts that are given to me, I'll go look up in the map or go. Google them or look them up in the library, wherever I can find information, because the whole thing has to hang together for me to really believe it.

And then there comes a point where you have to say, well, I'm studying dog mad. And I have to take these people at their word some point. Yeah. And there are things. When I work for the newspaper, I work for the paper for 10 years. and maybe a total of five minor updates on that Beast of Ray Road story. The rest of the time I was interviewing promptly one to four people a week on a whole variety of topics. And you get a pretty good BSOMU doing that for all that time.

You know, you can tell when people or at least get a gut feeling that they're trying to put one over on you. There have been one or two where I was suspicious and asked point blank if they were making it up. and they denied it and then I found out that they were you know so I I try to do my best and from that point on I just have to put it you know if it still hangs together seems consistent and adds value to what I'm talking about you know I'll include it and and then let the reader be the final judge and there are some people who won't believe anything you put in and there are some people who are probably the other way and believe every single thing everybody says and you know I try to hang somewhere and

the middle. It's interesting. I didn't really buy into the whole dog man thing until I went down to California and talked to the border patrol agents. And they have more dog men stories and they do Bigfoot stories. And they're very open about it down there. I mean, they're very open about it down there. They talk about, they call it the devil dog. And there was, I remember there was a border patrol agent I interviewed. And I think it was his partner that quit the next day. They were going down this road and they almost hit one. And he said it was the biggest wolf feed ever seen his life until it stood up and looked right at them.

And the reason why they call it devil dog is because it has red eyes. And so they almost hit this thing. And the guy that just started with the border patrol agents, he quits. He's like, I'm done. And they tried to reassure him, hey, it's the devil dog. We see it all the time down here, you know, on and on. Which sounds crazy for a border patrol agent to even say that. But they're very open about it down there.

And they see it all the time. And they will describe you exactly what they saw and exactly what they're running into. And that was the first time, I think, for me, where I stopped and went, well, and I asked the guy really hard. I was like, well, you know, is it, or are you seeing a Sasquatch that has like a protruding snout or a protruding muzzle? Is that what? And he's like, no, this thing was canine. The same was absolutely a canine running around. We call it the devil dog.

Yeah. people who get a good look are always positive as to whether it was a big primate or a big canine. They're just too different. If you see them well enough, you really can't mistake one for the other. And it doesn't surprise me that you get more of the canine sightings there because, you know, desert for at least for North American Sasquot doesn't seem to be a very happy habitat for them. They like variable elevations and they like the pine forests. They need more cover, I think, and marsh plants and deer to chase.

But the canines don't mind the open territory. And if they were around the Great Lakes areas, like where I am, there's a lot of former prairie, and that's the same sort of flat habitat that they like. Now, I've been mapping where they are reported to me since the very beginning. and one thing I noticed right off was that they seemed to both like areas where there were lots of deer, where there's water and vegetation and things that deer like, but you could almost draw a line between the territory of the Bigfoot and the territory that the dogmen or the Sasquatch preferred.

There's a place like that here in southeast Wisconsin in the Kellen Moraine State Forest, where the land changes rather abruptly, where the glacier, the last glacier stopped. So in one instance, you've got flat prairie, now cornfields, most of them, and then all of a sudden you've got these deep ravine-like depressions in the earth and pines and things like that. And I will have minor incursions between the territories, but if you tell me which side of this line was,

I can tell you if it was probably a big foot or a dog foot, a big foot or a dogman just based on that alone. Yeah, they like different places, but they do both like deer. It seems to me that the dogman, their behavior is a lot like Sasquatch. And I'll give you a couple examples. One example I wanted to ask you about, and this was in your book, Beast of Burry Road, but I talked to a cop that was hunting in Texas about 90 days ago. And he was out hunting, and he was up in a tree stand.

Now, this guy didn't want to come on the air because he was like, Hey, I was there and I saw it. I'm still having a hard time believing what actually happened. But what ended up happening to him, he's sitting up in this tree stand. And it's early in the morning the sun had already come up. And he told me what, he goes, West, what I saw was two upright walking canines, walking side by side, coming through the big thicket as I'm up in this tree stand. And he goes, it was two of the largest wolves I'd ever seen in my life.

He goes, but the weird part is they had bodies like men or like what people describe of Sasquatch. And he goes, I think they were talking to each other. And I go, what do you mean they were talking to each other? And he goes, it was just this low rumbling. It kind of sounded like a growl, but it really wasn't a growl. He could tell it was some sort of proto language or I think that's a term he used. But he said it was this real low, almost like they were talking back and forth and they were walking upright. And as soon as they left the area, he gets down over his tree stand, runs back to his car, and he hasn't been hunting since.

But have you had encounters, and this is a police officer in Texas, have you had encounters of them chattering or them seem to be using some form of language? The dogmen, not so much with them. Most of the reports seem to be telepathic. Now, if these had humanoid bodies, then it sounds like we might be talking more about something like skin walkers. That is something that's, you know, it's a controversial topic, but any Native Americans, I know that I've interviewed, believe that these are real things. And these are not just natural animals. These are usually considered to be, I don't know, I don't even know the right word to use, some sort of transformation, whether it's, a spirit body transformation that covers the person's original body or whether it's somebody is able to project thought forms into animals.

Now, if this was near a reservation of some type, you said the big thicket, and I'm not sure. Yeah, that's East Texas. East Texas, yeah, so I'm not sure what would be around there in that case. Yeah, sometimes these things get combined, but it's very rarely. And with the language, that does sound more like Sasquatch. Now, I've had people report to me separate people who don't know each other in different states. When they've encountered a single canine, it will make this sound at them that they've imitated it for me. And it reminds me of these old style, remember when everybody was buying cappuccino makers?

and you'd have cappuccino makers in the kitchen and they had this very little pitch. It was like, rah, raw, rah, kind of like that. I'm making a poor imitation because the people who've seen it were all men and they could really imitate it well. But that was what they would report. And then many times people who have encountered all the types, especially the roadside ones, will say they felt that it was communicating with them, not in a spoken word, not in the King's English even, but in impressions. That, for instance, they would get the impression it was telling them,

I could jump on the hood of your car if I wanted to. Or if you tell anyone you saw me, I'll come and get you. You know, pretty specific messages, but not that type of a spoken, spoken word. But I think there are numerous, numerous references from people all around the country and Canada and other places that have heard the Bigfoot seem to either imitate humans, talk to one another, or just sort of sound like it's talking away to, you know, a human that's looking at it. And I've got one good example in the new Monsters Among this book where this man was being chased by one, by a big foot, that is, a definite big foot in the desert plains.

river sanctuary right just one mile east of O'Hare Airport it was and as it chased him he said it was making this sound like he described it as kind of hubba habara hubba hop again I'm making a bad imitation of what he did but it's very similar to other um notes that I've heard from people other descriptions of the of the language and I've heard people say that they've heard several of them talking to one another in that language. The same man said there was, there's a small group, it happened to be right along the river where he's being chased, and he had seen a small group on the other bank that didn't cross over the river like this one had, and they were shouting to him in kind of that same language.

And he felt it was a language, too. So that's very common and interesting. And then they also are said to be able to imitate human beings. very well. And I have had one instance in the kettle moraine. I've had several different types of encounters and sightings of them just in the past four years. And in one case, I wasn't sure where my husband was, and I was standing on the top of one of these ridges between the ravine-like things called kettles. And I was just kind of yelling for my husband. I really had no idea where he was. He was, we lived right on the edge of the kettles.

We just moved, but our house was literally 10, 12 feet from the edge of one. And I was yelling Steve. And then all of a sudden, from out of the kettle, way down deep, where there were no people, I assure you, I heard somebody go in the voice of, if you remember Sean Anna, that group where they had the very deep voice, voice die. Bowser. Bowser. Yes, it was Bowser. It was a voice like Bowser, only bigger and louder. And it went, oh, hello, hello.

As plainly as daylight. And the weird thing about it was, it was even a little faster than that. It was faster than you would speak normally in our language. It was like, oh, hello, hello. But no mistaking what it was whatsoever. And I just backed up and went in the house. And it turned out my husband was inside. the house and nowhere to be seen.

So they've got good vocal cords and they seem to be, I believe that the Bigfoot are definitely capable of speech. The Dog Man, I have not heard that characteristic of them talking to each other conversationally really much at all. I've got one instance in my book where it was described as sort of a dreamlike experience by one person, but I wouldn't call that at all the same as somebody sitting in his hunting blind and seeing them walking below and conversing that way. But again, if they had humanoid bodies, that's something different too. Maybe there's a whole other category I don't know about.

It's interesting because when I, you know, going back to the cop in Texas, it reminded me, it reminded me of the story in Beesda Breyer Road. And I think you had a story in there of the night watchman. And I had to go back to actually read it. that happened in the 30s, but it kind of reminded me of what this guy in Texas was talking about, this police officer. He said it really was a strange, low guttural, somewhere between a growl and mumbling, but he could kind of tell they were communicating with each other, talking to each other. And I feel bad for the, I feel bad for the cop because he's so distraught over it. He's like, man, I feel like I'm losing my mind here and what I saw.

Yeah. Do you mind telling the story of the night watchman real briefly? No, I don't. I see it mistold all over the internet. So I always like to get it straight when I can. This was not on Bray Road. It was in the adjacent county to us, just north, Jefferson County, right in the center of the county. And which, by the way, I have listed in a later book as the square of weirdness,

because there's a 13 square mile area where you've got every kind of sighting going on. And this spot is about the center of it. And just outside of the county seat of Jefferson County is the city of Jefferson. And there's been, for a long time, a Catholic charitable organization. In fact, they had Rosemary Kennedy there, house there for many years after she had her lobotomy, where people can, they have people of various disabilities and challenges that they can hear of. So this is 1936 and the night watchman is a man named Mark Shackleman.

He stands over six feet tall. He's a former prize fighter. And he's walking around armed with nothing but kind of a Billy Club. And he comes upon this Native American bear. mound, which southeast in Wisconsin was literally plastered with these things. And there was this strange creature digging in it. And it looked at him and just stood up, which surprised him, stood up on its hind legs, and ran off. He encountered it a second night, and this time he had a really big flashlight, the kind of flashlight that you could, you know, clobber somebody with the very old fashion.

Because, again, it was 1936. and I've seen stories where they have him driving by it in an automobile and, you know, that's not true. He was just walking the grounds. This time it stood up again and it looked at him and it uttered the syllables that sounded like Gadara. And this time then it also ran off. But Gadara does have a meaning as a word, if that indeed was the word. It's the region in the Bible that is talked about in the Bible where you, Jesus was exercising a demon-possessed man, and the demons went out from him and went into a herd of swine, which then rushed into the sea.

But again, I always have to say, if you're trying to imitate a growling sound, the G, the D, the Arger, you know, those are the sounds that you're going to, the consonants that you're going to probably come up with. So you could explain it that way, too. Now, he only told his wife, and then never told anyone else until he thought he was on his deathbed, and then he told his son, Joe Shackleman, who is a newspaper editor, and directed Joe to draw a picture of it. And the picture, to me, still to the day, it looks somewhere between a canine and primate. It really does. It's kind of neither nor. and I'm still not sure what it was.

And on that spot where he saw it, I do have many more bigfoot sightings than Dogman all around up in Jefferson County. That's what I seem to get. So I'm still not satisfied which it actually was. But that's essentially the story. He never saw it again. And there are other weird things. There was an exorcism in that parrot.

the Catholic parish that served that church I have, took me very many years of trying to get to talk to people to find out what that was about. And that's in, I think, real, yes, real wolfmen, true encounters in modern America, tells the whole story of that whole area. So, yeah, it's an interesting story, and I know it's been repeated a lot, but I wish that the original person was of course available to describe exactly what it was. Yeah, and it's interesting to talk to someone from the 30s or actually have a report from the 30s of these sayings. There's so many other things I want to get into, but Duke, did you have any questions?

Yeah, actually, I have a couple for you. Hi, Linda. It's Duke here. I do. Hey. I'm kind of curious, if you ever hear any. reports of them whistling? The dogman?

Yeah. Not observably. I know for a fact Bigfoot is often said to whistle and especially likes to whistle and imitate bird calls. But I haven't heard that with the dog man. It doesn't mean it doesn't do it. I just haven't gotten those reports. I don't know that if it's an actual canine.

whether a canine could pucker its muzzle up, you know, and create a true whistle. You know, Bigfoot and humans have these very sort of plastic lips that were very mobile, and we can direct the air through them to do that. Birds have, you know, special apparatus for whistling, you know, however they whistle. But dogs, I'm not sure. canines, wolves, I'm not sure how they could, I'm sure, produce a very highly pitched whining or highly pitched keening, howling sound that might approach a whistle or that someone might mistake for a whistle. But those are just the ones that seem to be really locked into the dog anatomy.

And sometimes there are some weird variations. I was just curious because I've heard lots of reports of Bigfoot and various varieties of it doing that. Right. Some of the more the dangerous northern sub-varieties seem to like using whistling to communicate with each other a lot, especially when they're hunting. I don't know if you've come across it, but in addition to the dog man type thing, there's something that sort of falls into a category right in between.

And you brought it up almost several times now. And it basically is, it looks like a big foot, more or less body-wise, but it's got a short snout on it. And I was very curious as to what this was exactly. Is it some sort of a dog man or is it some sort of a Bigfoot type creature? And now having had direct contact with elders from five different tribes around North America, they all assure me that it is like a variety of Bigfoot and not a dog man. And most of them seem to think that dog man is either a skin walker somehow related to supernatural and these are the bigfoot type things tend to be less so apparently in their opinion um but the interesting thing to me was that these things

seem to be almost exclusively carnivorous and they like to communicate with each other by whistling and you don't get reports of this uh this variety um howling or doing whoops like a typical Sasquatch would. They seem to just mimic animal calls and whistle. And one of the people that I talked to is very specific about, if you're wandering around in the woods, don't be whistling. Because that's how these things communicate with each other. And they'll think you're like, you know, the equivalent of a human idiot wandering around just babbling, making weird words, and they'll wonder what it is, and come over to check it out, which is definitely not what you want to happen. I can't remember if it's the Yakima people.

Somebody on that Pacific coastal area where one of their words for Bigfoot means the whistler and they're often depicted in a totem pole with puckered mouse in this whistling pose

or in the artwork. Not necessarily a totem pole but in artwork I can kind of visualize some that I've seen. So they do have that connection And they do have more, that's where you hear about the cannibalism. That's maybe not the exact word because they're not eating each other, eating humans.

You hear about them seeking human flesh and kidnapping children to eat and that kind of thing. Yeah, and that's all over North America, just about any tribe you talk to. They've got some story that relates to that in some way, even in the areas where they more or less had cordial and neutral relations with them. they were still always willing to warn you that, you know, you run into one on a bad day or it hasn't been eaten enough lately, you could end up on the menu. And they're also individuals. You know, I believe all of these, you know, that they're individuals with different tastes and temperaments and, you know, you have to treat them with that kind of respect, not knowing

exactly what they are. But, you know, I'm wondering, there are human beings that have what they call. call a more prognathic. That means projecting sort of facial form. And it's not like a muzzle. It's not like, you know, a dog's black nose with the fangs. It's more just a forward jutting jaw that people mistake for a muzzle, but it's not really the same thing if you look at it.

And I think you have to go by the, and also I don't think they're described as having the point of ears on top of the head. No, they have ears on the side of their head. That's another big difference. Yeah, that's a primate thing. And then you'll look, they won't have claws. They'll have the broad fingernails. Although I have a feeling some of them purposely sharpen them to use, you know, as points or tools almost.

I've seen descriptions of them having a couple of pointy fingernails that looked like they'd been, you know, maybe shaped on a rock or something. and you can see where that would be very handy. They're almost like they're so hard and thick. They're almost like cutting tools. Well, the first one that I saw up in northern Minnesota, which I claim is the sub-variety in northeast, known as the Wendigo, more meat-eating variety that lives further north. It did have what appeared to be claws, impact. It almost looked like talons.

They were black. And so whether it was sharpening them or whether they just grow that way, there are some lesser proto-primates that do actually have claws. It's not outside of their realm of possibility. Getting back to the other ones with the snout on them, the one I saw did not have a snout, which is why I class it as a Wendigo. The other type, if you're, you know,

it depends on what region you're in as to what name gets used for them. I like to just colloquially or generally call them the bear man, because in central Canada, that's the usual term that's used for them. But it's basically a big foot that's got a snout on it. And most of the witnesses that see one say its head kind of looked like a baboon. I mean, it wasn't a prognathus. It was an actual snowed. And it had ears on the side of its head.

Sometimes there's like little tops of hair on them. Sometimes they can't see that at all. They could barely even make out the ears being there. But it seems like it's not dog man. And, you know, it's some weird variant of Bigfoot, apparently. The McMak tribe call on the Gugui, Chippewa call them the Tugui, Central Canada, the Bear Man, the Navajo differentiate them from the regular werewolf type thing which they claim are skin walkers and these things they have a name that translate as big wolf is what they call them so there's

apparently this recognition amongst tribes that have them generally in their area that there is such a thing and it's not the same thing as dog bad which i find to be very interesting personally yeah that that is you know as long as they're allowing that there is a dogman because there is a definitely different but even Argentina I think they call them the the Okumari the ones that look a little more like bears but they're but they're not quite but I think you have to go generally by the body type if they've got if they walk flat-footed if they've got knee structure exactly the ones we're talking about here do not have

hawks they've got a leg structure that looks just like a human and see that's going to be a primate I mean these are the basic parts of that you know zoologists would would look for. They will also have shoulders. They will have arms with rotator cuffs that can, you know, easily grasp branches or throw a rock at your head or, you know, whatever they want to do. And they've got real fingers, not just elongated paws. Right. So, yeah, I do feel that there's that real difference. As for the ears, that one, that incident that I was mentioning in the Monsters Among Us, the Sasquatch that was chasing this man,

had swum across the river to get at him, and so his hair was all wet. And he said, it turned its head, and because its hair was wet, it kind of hung back from his, away from his face, and he was able to see one of the ears. And he said it was shaped like a human ear, but flat and a little smaller in proportion to the head than a humans would be, and a little bit pointed on the top. But not so that it stuck out of the firm normally. he was close enough that he actually got that glimpse at its ear. And that's what sounds like very much these creatures that you've just been talking about. Yeah. You know, being the, I'm a Bigfoot guy, and I've been researching this for over 40 years.

So I keep coming across some of these oddball variant varieties. And it's, you know, like any other research thing, you just kind of stick it in your file and go, well, I don't know what to do with this. And then when you start finding several of them from all over the place and they all seem, to be talking about exactly the same thing. Yeah. Then you start going, well, there's something to this. This isn't just like one misidentification or something.

And then you talk to the natives and it goes way, way back in their cultural history too. So, you know, there's really something. There's there there. The other question that I had for you, one of the things that I do a lot of is I walk around and look for, you know, actual evidence of Bigfoot in the absence of being able to easily find one and photograph it. what other sort of marks are they leaving around and of course you know you can always look for droppings and tracks and whatnot but one of the things that I have a lot of success finding and is

always in the areas where they're at are stick and rock structures and I was wondering if there was any um evidence at all that dogman ever uh construct any sticker rock structures not that I know of you know and I always qualify that because you know it may have someone else may have seen it or but I mean in 25 years years and I still receive, you know, an average of one or two reports a week. That's a lot of reports over all that time. I've never had anybody connect a dogman with the structures like that. And it makes sense because they don't have, even if you've got elongated paws, they don't have opposable thumbs.

I'm not sure they would have the need for these shelters. You know, I think the Bigfoot used them for, I think they use them a lot for honey. blinds personally. And also, I've had other people tell me who've had some experience with them. They'll also sometimes just use them for kind of hiding places. They'll cover them with pine boughs in the heat of the day and crawl in and you could walk by one and never even know it. But there are lots of them around the cattle moraine. And in fact, I just recently moved to a place that backs up to a big preservation area not very far from where I lived

and I found one already back in there and you can tell I mean there was behind there was a big exformation and I thought okay so what's back there that they don't want me to see and sure enough there it was you know with the different

tree uprooted and the other ones twined around it and the different species you know and there's always sort of they seem to get sort of a crude rafter we've type of thing at the top and then everything. They aren't generally uniform. They don't, I don't think they look most of the time like those very neat stick teepees

that every campground teaches the campers to make. I think that those are almost always humans. But once you learn, once you learn to recognize those stick huts, there's no mistaking them. Yeah. Well, I can tell you, they don't, generally they don't use them for shelter because they just don't really need it. The littler ones will make the. smaller structures because they're copying the adults.

The adults will make the big ones. And the little ones can be just freestanding. You can always tell because there's no tool marks on them. Nobody cut them with a hatchet or a chainsaw or anything like that. And the peculiar way that they're sort of woven

together, it's just really odd and it's not like the way humans usually do things. The other thing is with the bigger ones, one of the ways you can for sure be pretty much sure whether a human or a Bigfoot did it, is if a Bigfoot did it, they'll use a freestanding tree for the lodge pole,

and they'll build it around that. And so you see the bigger ones. But again, I'm not convinced that they use either kind for actual shelter. I think they're just markers. I think they're just marking, you know, like their territory, like the X structures are, there's a boundary marker, stay out, you know, something along those lines. When I find them, they're almost always next to a deer trail.

around here. Maybe they use them for different things, different places. But I really think that most of the ones I've seen are just sort of blinds where they can just watch the trail. Normally they're set in a good place for viewing the trail that's right next to them. But I also have a friend who is a First Nation woman who lives on the East Coast who grew up on an isolated lake. and had a lot of habituation experiences when she was too young to realize really that it was a habituation experience. She just thought they were some other kind of people. And she said they built these stick structures and they were just kind of hang out in the daytime with their little ones,

not for shelter really, but just a place that they could sit and observe without all being up in a tree or, you know, know what was around them. and it was near where they could catch deer and that sort of thing too. So, yeah, but I don't think, I really have never had any indication that the dog men do anything like that. Well, that's great news because now somebody hears this and they're wandering around behind their house, finding a stick and tree structures. They probably don't have to worry so much that a dog man is actually hanging around on the property. No, in fact, they're probably not because I think. I don't think they tolerate each other really up close because they're contending for the same food in terms of deer.

Right. You know, when I talk to a lot of people, and the dog man actually goes back longer than even I realized. I know the, what's the term they call it, sinus synovaphyllis? Yeah, the dog-headed man, yeah. Yeah, and as I was researching this before the interview, you know, like Christopher Columbus, talked about it, which I had no idea. The Greeks talk about it. The Greeks say it's a...

Marco Polo. Yeah, Marco Polo. The Greeks say it's an Egyptian baboon with the head of a dog, is how the Greeks talk about it. Now, you know, we have Anubis in Egypt, and so it does go back farther than I had realized. You know, it's interesting, though, and I don't know if you've come across this, Linda. I know Duke has too as well.

come across this issue. When you talk to someone who's actually seen a dog man, it seems like the word evil comes up a lot. Did you get that from interviewing witnesses? Yeah, not always. Once in a while, somebody will say, well, you know, I was a little scared, but I was privileged to see it,

and I think it was really a good thing. Some people do believe that they're good, but generally they aren't the people who've had real up-close physical experiences with them. and people will either say it was evil or it was angry or, you know, it was trying to scare me, filled me with dread. I mean, it's usually got some sort of a negative connotation attached to it. Not every time, but usually.

Have you talked to witnesses who've had violent encounters? Most of the time, they feel right up to the last second that the creatures are very aggressive, that they could be violent, that they could get them, even people saying things like they felt it wanted to eat them, they felt that they were going to be lunch. But then at the last second, and this is the consistent thing over all these years and over all these places, at the last second, it will just turn and dive into the cornfield or whatever happens. to be there for cover the woods. I did have one incident in Quebec, Canada, where a man out on a trail encountered one. He was not armed or anything.

He said the creature kind of lunged toward him, and he sort of panicked and moved weirdly, and it ended up grazing his side and flank with a thing as it went past, and he said, I don't think it meant to, or it could have easily disemboweled me

if it wanted to, but he had to go and get stitches and told them it was a bear that did it. And that's the closest thing I've had to any human injury. Now, there could be people who never lived to tell the tale, and we wouldn't know. Yeah, no, I agree. It's interesting. As I've looked into the dog man, I've come across many strange reports. And one of the things I've come across is it seems that dogman holds a grudge just like Sasquatch does. And I'll give you an example. I had a guy on the show one time. who talked about seeing this very large coyote.

And he took a shot. He was trying to kill it. And the shot hit right above this coyote's head. Well, this supposed coyote stands up on two legs and looks directly at him. And he said this thing was probably about six and a half, maybe seven feet tall, looks directly at him, and then starts walking off on two legs, trying to find cover. It went up into the woods trying to find cover, but it was on two legs. What's interesting is his grandparents didn't live far from where this shot took place.

So he ran back to his grandparents' home. What was interesting about him going back to his grandparents' home is this thing started coming around the property. It started going up to the window where he was at. This guy was armed day and night. Every time he stepped foot out of the house, he was armed. But, you know, when you think of Sasquatch, I get a Sasquatch. Let's say it's an unknown human primate or a non-human primate for the moment. A primate will hold a grudge.

Your chimpanzee will hold a grudge. Your ape will hold a grudge. If you do them wrong, they will hold a grudge. And that's been proven through science that they, their traits aren't too far off from humans, the way they react to things. But what's weird about a dog man is, let's say it's an upright walking canine that no one knows about. I think there's more to the story than just an upright walking canine. But we'll put that to the side for the moment. I do too.

What's weird is it holds a grudge. Like my dog's never held a grudge over anything. Exactly. And I've never seen any other canine hold a grudge. But what's interesting with some of these dog man reports, they tend to act a lot like Sasquatch. They hold a grudge. They'll show up.

They'll torment you for a while for popping a shot at them. And I've had many reports like that. What's your take on this? Well, it's kind of like, you know, the same thing I've often said. if you're walking through the woods and you see a bear, you know, there are going to be some emotions flying. You're going to be wondering whether it's going to eat you. It's going to be wondering whether it wants to eat you.

But you never, and my husband's been in a deer stand and had a bear walk right by under him, you know, and he didn't come home and say, you know, I saw this bear. I thought it was sending me the mental message that it could climb up my tree and get me if it wanted to. you know and you just realize normal animals don't give you these strange thoughts and signals you know there's just something uncanny and people will also say about the dog man i felt it was not just a natural animal that it was wiser smarter than a natural animal that it had you know great intelligence that it was kind of self-aware and that it was just as interested in checking me out as I and not necessarily as a meal but just you know really just curious um and that's

something you don't hear about um natural animals they they're very straightforward you know in in their wants and intense toward you it just throws me off here in these reports because a lot of their reactions or the way they react is very much like kind of like saskatch really i mean i've had witnesses come across where these things are walking across the road. I mean, six months ago, I had a cop that almost hit one. He was in his patrol car in Kentucky. And as he's going down the highway, this thing steps out in front of him. And I asked him specifically, what was it?

And he said, I don't think it's a big foot. He goes, it reminded me of a big wolf on two legs. And I almost hit the thing. And so as him and I got to talking, he said it actually stopped and looked over at him and he could hear it growling at him. And it was staring him down. And it didn't run off on, you know, it just didn't run off like in a normal animal would. It stopped and held its ground and was ready for a fight.

And eventually it left and then he left. But it's just interesting to hear these reports because they tend with Dogman compared to Sasquatch, would you say the reports are more violent or tend to be more aggressive? Well, yeah, I'd say aggressive more so than violent. although I mean I've been walking with with a colleague who got hit in hand with Rock you know so it's not like the Sasquatch can't do that too but the aggressiveness is usually an element in any encounter but you know I did want to mention one other thing really quick you keep mentioning your you know the law

enforcement officer I have two friends who are members of of a nearby county sheriff's department, and between them, they've seen four upright canines running around in southeastern Wisconsin late night while on their patrol. There's third shift patrols. Wow. They can't tell their upline, you know, because they figure they'll get demoted or made fun of or even fired. They're not supposed to talk about things like that.

Yeah, and I get that a lot with law enforcement. The only time I really didn't get that is with the, and I should put you in touch with them. The Border Patrol agents down there in Southern California, I mean, they were so open about it all the way down the line. They have reports of them. They keep it in a file down there, and they just called the devil dog. And they were very, very open about it. One of the things that threw me off that made me think it's not necessarily a flesh and blood creature is one of the, well, and it's hard to even say that. But one of the Border Patrol agents I talked to, he said it had glowing red eyes. They were down there one night and they had stopped the car. They were trying to find

where these illegals had actually come up through Ote Mountain. So they get out of their rig and they're walking down this trail to see if they can figure out where these guys are coming in at. And they come across this creature. And one of the things he said to me was it had glowing red eyes. And I said, was it eye like, ice shine? Is that what you mean is, you know, because they, those guys run into everything out there. There's deer. There's cougars. There's mountain lions. So it said it was it like a normal eyeshine? Is that what you're talking about? And he said, no.

It almost their eyes, he goes, it was like something was going on with its eyes. Its eyes lit up like light bulbs and there were red glowing eyes. And that's where the term devil dog originally came from because they would see the red glowing eyes.

So they just called it the devil dog. Yeah. I've heard them described as like LED lights. Yeah. And again, this seems to be a different kind than your normal. The ones that people encounter along the rotor or the ditches or wherever are almost, I would say at least 90% of the time they describe the normal canine eyeshine. But there's this subset with the red glowing eyes. And another term for them is hellhounds. I've heard that described too.

And so, you know, I don't know how to explain that there are different kinds of them. there just seem to be. And the kinds are sort of consistent within themselves. Do you see the reports increasing? I have, and I can't say that that's because there are more of the creatures or whether there are just more people who are aware of them and who are also encouraged to talk about them. First, I think, by my books and maybe the last couple of years,

by, you know, there's been a preparation of radio shows where people, are encouraged to call in and tell their stories, you know, which is a different way of sharing the information. And the more that that happens and gets out, the more people become aware and then are emboldened where I think before, most people would probably just sit on the information and be too afraid to mention it to anyone and sometimes just take it, you know, just die with the information. So I think it's just, it's a matter of, you know, more knowledge about them. and less being made fun of for talking about. Yeah, the dogmen worry me.

I don't know what the dogmen are, and I'll ask you in a moment what you think they are, but they worry me because they don't act like normal animals. Even Sasquatch doesn't really act like a normal animal. And I think there's... Yeah, we got into trail camps, you know, what they do to those things. Yeah, and actually I want to get into that. One of the things I wanted to run past you is I had Oscar on from California one time.

actually this is just a couple weeks ago and he was talking about this dog man he ran into but he didn't know what to call it he kept calling it the king of the coyotes and I said why did he call it the king of the coyotes and he said it walked up right you reminded him of a coyote kind of had a smaller body

and the head more like a coyote but this thing was aggressive with these guys it was way off in the distance watching them from a hillside and it was a bunch of I say kids they were probably in their late teens early 20 he's walking down this highway.

But there was like six of these guys. This thing came in on them and really almost ran these guys down on the highway. I mean, this thing was so aggressive with these guys. It kept growling at them getting closer and closer and closer and growling at them until finally they got picked up. But that's what I mean by more aggressive encounters. Like you wouldn't think a normal animal would approach what appears to be six grown men walking down a highway, even though your young guys, still six grown men, you'd be hard-pressed to find a mountain line that would pull something like that or even a bear pull something like that, you know, and these things seem to not care. Tell us about the trail cams.

So you've had people try and get them on trail cams? Oh, I have myself. Yeah, and I have people try. In fact, there is a field in southeastern Wisconsin where I've assisted the property owner for three years, or he was. bringing roadkill deer carcasses up from Illinois and putting them to try and explain to himself how a raccoon that he found one day could have been mutilated as it was. And we've had up to three trail cams and just get bizarre things and never ever ever the money shot.

And we've had turkey vultures, raccoons, we've had skunks, we've had neighbors, farm dogs, you name it, we'll all show up. but never this whatever it is that kicks up the carcass and drags it away and sometimes the trail cam just stops functioning and i've used my own too i've done i've done the same things and i've just pretty much given up and this is universal you know that's why i included um some of the interesting points of the skin walker ranch saga because they had the most cutting edge equipment and scientists operating the trail cams and they couldn't get anything and although the phenomena were right there you know and you know in the wisconsin field we'd had the five-toed huge tracks um with no four paw prints so you knew it was walking upright and the carcass had been picked up completely and carried away through another big field and over a barbed wire fence and the trail cam was tripped but it only showed the column of mist so that's interesting

Yeah, and Bigfoot does the same thing, and I think they can detect them. The only thing I can think of is that they either have a sensitivity to electromagnetic field and different types of energy, or they're slightly different than we are, or this, I hate to say it, this world is that they don't quite mesh. and that's another reason we get when people do get photos, that they're blob squashes. You know, they're not, our instruments and our eyes and our perceptions are not quite the same as theirs and we're not set to perceive them. What do you think Dogman is?

What do you think these creatures are people are seeing? Because there's definitely seeing something. I believe that. What they are, I couldn't tell you. But from your own opinion, from studying this for so long, what's your honest opinion on what these things, are. Sometimes it seems to me that there's sort of a sliding scale of reality. It's not like either we're all here or all in, you know, that there's just a spirit world and this world and nothing

in between. Sometimes I think there is a place in between. And when I say spirit world, I may be just talking, that's what my Native American friends call it. We may be talking just some, one of these slightly altered realities that our physicists are now predicting must occur if the other proven parts of their quantum physics theories and that sort of thing are correct and so many of them have been proven correct. So we know there are sounds we can't hear. We know there are places in the light spectrum that other animals can see and even sometimes produce that we can't see. We know that we're not the final authority on what exists, you know, because we just are not equipped to be aware of them all. So I'm thinking maybe there are some creatures that are more tuned into these places.

And it's because their electromagnetic fields are a little different than ours. I have no explanation for that or even, you know, I'm not a scientist. I don't claim to me. It's speculation. But it would come closest to what many of the First Nation people elders and others that I've interviewed on the topic have told me, which is that they believe that the Sasquatch and the dogman, not necessarily the Skinwalker, but the dog man, and they will sometimes make a distinction, are creatures of two worlds, ours and this other one, and that they can go back and forth between them. and that they're sometimes in a transitional state. It's not like I'm all solid now. I'm all otherworldly.

You know, there's a little transition. Sometimes we see these transition states and don't know what to make of them. That's the only thing that fits all the facts and all the observations from all these different people. It sounds demonic. Do you think these things are demonic? I've had that word applied to them by some witnesses. and certainly there are some cases. For instance, in the Monsters Amongus book,

I had a really highly vetted in research encounter a story about a couple who saw a woman transform right in a church, right at the end of a church service, into what looked like a very giant wolf-like creature, except they plainly saw because they were quite close to it, hoofs instead of paws on the creature. And it wasn't a long, it howled, you know, and everybody in the church. Some saw it, some didn't see it as well.

But the elders took it down on a church pew immediately and then it transformed back into a woman. Now, what is that? These were people that I traveled to meet them in person. I interviewed them face-to-face three times. They drew me sketches. Everything that they contributed checked out. just night he's a former vietnam vet just nice solid middle-aged couple but what was that they think it was a case of demonic possession

it just worries me you know are we are we seeing more or more of these strange creatures and what are they maybe it's because i interviewed so many people throughout the day where I've talked to a lot of dogmen people have encountered the dogmen there's sometimes where I think, gosh, is this demonic? I mean, I don't know what to think about it. You know, the whole mindspeak thing, I think is somewhat, somewhat demonic. I don't believe that that's, you know, there's, we used to talk like that or it's some advanced form of communication. I start looking to stuff like that and I go, this sounds demonic. And the reason why I say that is because in a lot of poltergeist encounters, a lot of demonic possessions, a lot of different

where demons are involved, there is mindspeak that goes on. And a lot of of the stuff the Bigfoot people report is exactly the same as in these demonic possessions where they feel like they're talking to them or they're looking through them, you know. And so it's hard to understand what this thing is. I think my personal opinion, and maybe you're right, maybe it's because people are starting to realize it's okay to talk about this now, so they're coming out more and more. But having said that, it kind of seems like the encounters are increasing, in my opinion. I mean, you're way more of a, and I don't call yourself an expert, but you know way more about this than I do.

But it seems like it's ramping up. It doesn't seem like it's dying down. No, it's definitely not dying down. I mean, you know, the reasons that it seems like it's ramping up, we can't be sure of, you know, whether it's really more creatures or just the, you know, the internet effect. But it's not going away. And it makes you more and more convinced that there's something. there, you know, and if it does get to the demonic, I kind of stop there. You know, I'm not, I don't blame you.

I'm not an occult investigator. And frankly, there are things I don't want to know. Yeah. No, I'm with you on that. Yeah. It's just interesting as you look through historically that nothing really is new. They were talking about these dog man creatures. And I was even shocked as I went back to start researching.

I was like Christopher Columbus, are you freaking getting me? And I started going, you know, the Greeks, the Egyptians, they all talk about this being and it being somewhat of a god. It's a little bit different, I think, in the way they describe it and the reports nowadays. The reports nowadays seem to be more like a wild creature running around. If you go back to what the Egyptian said and what the Greeks say, it was more of a God that was worshipped. But the descriptions are exactly the same. I mean, there's really no huge difference between what the Greeks are talking about.

and what we're talking about today. They sound very similar, yeah. They sound more similar to those ancient ones than they do to the Hollywood versions, I have to add. Yeah, and you're talking about werewolves and that sort of thing. Right. Yeah, I would tend to agree with you on that. Absolutely. I've never thought that they were like the traditional werewolves,

which is why I called it the Beast of Bray Road. But my book publishers like that term because it does give you an instant metal picture of what these people are seeing and it's a lot more exciting sexy term if you will for the creatures so it ends up in my book titles

which by the way publishers are the ones who get to name the book a lot of people don't realize that if you have a mainstream publisher they will come up with the type book title but in most cases unless you're maybe someone like

Stephen King or you know which I know where approach that kind of status. But I've never thought that they were actual werewolves. Yeah, I tend to agree with you. A lot of the reports, they seem to match more historical accounts. And it just worries me because I know, even with Sasquatch, I know a lot of researchers will say, well, the reports have died down. I tend to disagree.

I think the reports have been ramping up. And the same thing with Dogman. I mean, those reports are ramping up too as well. And it just worries me what's coming. Why is this ramping up? But the book again is called Monsters Among Us, and you can get it on Amazon. Is there a better place to get it besides Amazon, Linda? Well, you can go, it's on sale at Barnes & Noble online and the brick and mortar bookstores.

It's in some other, it's in other bookstores, too, and you can order it for most of any bookstores. You can go to just about any online bookstore. It's widely available, just put it that way. And you can go to Linda Godfrey.com. If you want my entire book list and you want to see my blog and other things like that. Well, definitely check out Linda Godfrey.com. Check out our new book, Monsters Among Us. I can't wait to read through that one.

And Linda's got a whole long list of great books. I know American Monsters, I think, was her last one. She's got the Beast of Bray Road, the Michigan Dogmen, Weird Michigan. I mean, there's a long list of books. And if you pick up Linda's book, definitely leave her a nice review wherever you get it from. If it's Amazon or wherever else, if you're able to leave a review, please leave a review for and check out Linda Godfrey.com. Linda, thank you so much for coming on the show. It was an honor to talk with you.

I've enjoyed your work for a long time. Oh, my pleasure. It was a really nice show. And thanks for having me. You guys asked very good questions. Thanks, Linda. And that's it for tonight, everyone. and remember if you've had an encounter, shoot me an email.

My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. Have a good night, everyone. The country faster than the coronavirus and wagering week is your antidote. I'm Tom Barton, and I'm a veteran sports analyst and respected sports handicapper who will help build ESPN's brand. I've been recognized and awarded by Pro Football Weekly and Gaming Today magazine as the honest handicapper. Let the other guys give you the same old boring sports talk with the same tired storylines

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