Sasquatch Chronicles - SC EP:283 Sasquatch and smallpox

Episode Date: December 18, 2016

Being distantly related to humans, Sasquatches would most likely suffer from various human afflictions as well, such as Chicken Pox, Measles, Mumps, Polio, etc. If one pauses to take account of the European invasion and its effect on the Native American population, you must consider that the same diseases wrought upon the indigenous people could have also had drastic affects on Sasquatch populations. It very well could be that those who survived the onslaught of European settlement were those who took refuge in the most remote places on our continent, those very places that even today, remain nearly impossible to explore. Had a disease like Smallpox virtually wiped out tribe after tribe of Native American's, this same disease could have brought already small populations of Sasquatch to the brink of extinction. Tom Sewid returns to the show this week to discuss Sasquatch and smallpox. He will be sharing with us what the First Nation people say regarding this. I will also be welcoming researcher Johnathan Odom to the show and he will be sharing with us his encounters and why he got involved in investigating this topic.

Black thing go from left to right, and I thought, I'm going to die out here and no one's ever going to know. I couldn't believe what my eyeballs was showing me. I'll never forget how evil the eyes were. It was a horrible. I mean, I've never seen nothing that evil. It ran towards me at a rate that I can't even explain, turned and stared at me. And this look of, I just want to kill you. I want to say it was human, but it wasn't.

He was yelling out, and he grabbed a gun, grab a gun. I was like, for what? He said, just grab a gun. And there's footprints all the way to the door of my house. It had went inside my garage all the way to the door. 911, what are you reporting? Sure. Get somebody out here. What's going on now, sir?

That son of a bitch is about six foot nine, I don't know. Do you see him now, sir? Yes, I'm looking right at him. Uh-oh. to Sasquatch Chronicles. Check us out online at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. If you've had an encounter, email me. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. Welcome to the show, everyone. Thanks for being here tonight. Got a great show plan for you tonight. I'm going to be speaking to Jonathan Odom, who will be sharing with us his own personal encounters,

one when he was younger with his father, and then a couple when he's been out actually looking for the creature. And Jonathan's got some very, very interesting encounters. And what I like about Jonathan is he'll also be sharing with us some of the weird things that have happened to him in the woods that may not be Sasquatch related, but definitely some odd, strange things. And then the second hour I'll be talking with Thomas Seawood, the First Nations tribal member from Canada, And you guys remember Tom from the last couple shows that I've done with them. And Tom's a wealth of knowledge. I know he looks into this subject with a lot of heart.

And he's going to be sharing with us his theory on Sasquatch and Smallpox. And if Sasquatch are actually affected by smallpox or other diseases that we as humans carry, very interesting discussion, you'll definitely want to hang around for that one. I know I was thinking about Ron Moorhead, him and I talk. you know, from time to time, about our different theories and about different things that we discuss. And I noticed he had posted this 911 recording, and you guys have always heard it in the intro, about the guy that's like, Jesus Christ, the things, you know, it's standing right in front of me, and the 911 operator is, I always cut off the part where she says, uh-oh, because I always end up

laughing at that part. Not that it's funny. I just mean to hear her response, you know, uh-oh, It's just kind of a, that's not what you want to hear from a 911 operator when you're in trouble. But this is interesting. You know, I talked to Ron several years back about this gentleman in this 911 call. And Ron interviewed him. Ron Moore had talked with him. And I guess the guy doesn't really want to talk about Bigfoot anymore. He doesn't really want to discuss it.

Because I've asked Ron to put me in touch with him. And I know if the guy was willing, Ron would do it in two seconds. have them on the show. But, and when you listen, you can hear the fear in this guy's voice. I know you guys have heard it a million times. But what was interesting is he had called, I knew he had called 911 a couple times because of this issue. Here is the first and second call that he made to 911. And then Ron also talks about Sasquatch and Dogs.

I posted this to the blog on Sasquatch Chronicles.com. but take a listen. I got a strange going on. I hear something. So my dog coming over. 9.1. What are you reporting? We got someone or something.

See what it was? Was it a person or an animal? I can't tell. All I know is that my central light came on and I just happened to glance and see this thing running. It ran across the yard. Okay. You've had problems in the neighborhood before? Yeah, my dog was killed here just recently.

I don't know. I couldn't catch it if I was going to chase it or whatever it was. that was standing up. I'm out here looking through the window now and I don't see anything. I don't want to go outside. Jesus Christ, you bet. Sir, what's on now, sir? In Washington, I interviewed him a few years ago, several years ago, actually. And that's a pretty good report. So I added it because he called in two different times about two weeks apart. We got a whole of the tapes from the insurance department. And it was thrown 35 feet and it passed through the air over this fence about nine feet high. Just prior to that, the man said,

He said he heard his dog yelping a big thump like it just got knocked on the ground. I was looking around and said if there's any horses in the area that could have kicked it or anything like that. But that just wasn't, well, no, there wasn't no horses in the area. An old dog that was just really, normally stayed in, by his feet. He had two younger dogs that always went out yelping and all that stuff. But these two dogs, his other dogs came cowering in. And that's when his big German Shepherd went out. And he lost his dog that night.

And it bothered him. It really did. He really loved his dog. He had already buried it. He would not give us permission to dig it up. Sure. That's all we can say. They're on 35 feet and 9 feet in the air. And I have to ask Ron, if my memory's right, I think the German Shepherd actually had its neck broke before it was thrown. That's why the guy was saying it was dead before it even hit the ground. But that is a fascinating account to me. And I'll have to ask Ron about it. I'll definitely have to get more info on Ron about it. I know him and I've talked about it over the years, but I'll have to have them on and discuss that. I know Ron Morehead will be coming up on a future show, helping me with the Lovelock Cave story. And I'm hoping to get that out by, I'd like to do it by Christmas,

because the Lovelock Cave encounter is such a fascinating encounter to me. If you get a chance to look up Love Lock Caves in Bigfoot or Love Lock Caves and Sasquatch, and you'll find all the information you want on it. But it's a very interesting encounter. And speaking of encounters, if you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. And if you get a chance to check out Sasquatch Chronicles.com, get additional shows. If you missed Friday's show, it was the return of the monkey man,

almost a two-hour show. I had two separate witnesses on, and they both had very, very fast. accounts. I want to thank Phil again for coming on, and I want to thank Tom for coming on, both northeastern encounters. I think Phil was in Maine and Tom was in New Jersey when they were talking about their encounters. And just interesting. Both guys have a lot of details. So you definitely don't want to miss that. And if you're looking for a gift, I know it's that time of year when we get each other's gifts, we exchange gifts, we give and receive on Sasquatchewatch Chronicles.com top. If you actually click on shop, there's some cool stuff in the store you can get for a loved one

or anyone into Bigfoot. It's definitely some cool gear. Let's jump into it tonight. I want to welcome Jonathan Odom to the show. Jonathan, thanks for coming on, man. I appreciate you being here. Hey, man, thank you inviting me, and you do a wonderful job. It's an honor. You're my guest. The honor is mine. Thank you again for being here. And Jonathan, you know, you've been looking into this subject for a long time. You've been investigating it, researching it, and really looking into this subject. But what I found fascinating with most researchers, most investigators, even a lot of enthusiasts, it all starts with an encounter, something they can't explain happen to them, and then they really start looking into this. If you would, could you start from the beginning

and talk about the encounter you had with your dad? For the audience, just walk us into what happened. Yeah. My dad was a preacher and we used to fish a lot in Franklin County in Alabama. And there was a set of lakes up there called Bear Creek Lakes. And it was very remote. We would fish up there for rock baths. And one morning got up early and we were fishing and we ran around the bank and I remember I was in the front of the boat and the boat. And, and, you know, I was in the front of the boat. there was something in the water bent down. And it stood up, looked at me and my father, and slowly walked up the bank. What my dad would do is he had a little trolling motor on a little aluminum boat, and he would,

you know, he would turn it on, we'd coast and fish. And this thing, I mean, looked right at us. And I describe it as like a chabaca, you know, because it looked at us, had long brown hair, and it was so surreal when it happened, because I was at the front of boat fishing, and we both, you know, were just mesmerized, and it just, you know, it was so, you know, it was just so odd. It just, I mean, I know I'm, I'm repeating my step, it was just crazy to have that happened, and it turned and looked at us, and then walked up the bank and I remember, remember us watching it walk to the top of the heel and just disappear.

And I look back on it now and I asked my dad about it a couple weeks ago, and we've talked about it several times. And before then, you know, I had never really had an interest in Bigfoot. I had a big interest in the paranormal, but not Bigfoot. What happened, you know, it kind of just shakes you. You know, it kind of just completely changes you. And I don't remember us ever really talking about it afterwards. I remember it happening, and it was just so stunning when it happened that we never did talk about it until years later, and I brought it up, and I asked my dad, said, do you remember that? He said, yeah. You know, I remember vividly. And it was just kind of, that was the start of it, you know, and then I started reading about it, and the more I read about it,

I always had an interest in it, you know, and so what started, you know, I guess just, and I think I was, I don't remember exactly how it was, but it was life-changing, very life-changing. Yeah, encounters and sightings in themselves are always life-changing. I don't think I've ever spoken to one person that has seen it, that it didn't change their life in some way. Why don't you think you and your dad talked about it afterwards? You know, I don't know. I wonder about that a lot.

You know, because when I talked to him a couple, you know, a couple weeks ago about it, just to kind of refresh his memory with what I'm doing right now with filming this creature, you know, I think it was, I think it just stunned both of us because it was, it was so out of the norm. And, you know, and I remember looking back on it, just, it was, I don't know, I just, I don't know. That's what's very, very odd about now with stuff when I, you know, on YouTube now.

I remember it crisply. You know, but then, you know, I don't know. My dad was a preacher, of course, so I don't know if it was something that just shook him to the core or shook me to the core or what. It was just, it was very unusual, you know, and even he said the other day was like, you know, I know we didn't talk about it, you know, and I don't know. I go over the thousand times in my mind and just try to think about why, you know, why it didn't, you know, why it didn't register?

You know, why didn't we say, whoa, what just happened? You know, I mean, I just don't know. That's a very, something I've mulled over a lot. It's actually very common between witnesses. A lot of witnesses I've had on the show, I'll get two hunters together that had an encounter. And it's very common for them to say when they were leaving,

they didn't talk about it. When they went home, they didn't talk about it. It wasn't until years later that they actually spoke about it. And I almost kind of think that it kind of, kind of short circuits of brain when you see something like that, because you're told these things aren't really real, and there's nothing like that out there. And then when you see it, it's almost like your brain reboots, and then you spend a lot of time trying to process what you saw, what you actually experienced. How big was a creature? Do you remember? I mean, compared to,

like, your dad at the time. Oh, it was huge. I would say snap judgment, it was at least seven or eight feet tall. Because I remember when it was going up the bank, there was several little trees, and it was right, the shoulders were right at the top of them. It was crazy. That lake is very rocky. There's a lot of rock outcropping. When I was talking to my dad, my dad said, Do you remember how fast it went up the bank?

And I was like, I do. I remember it went up so fast that it was just like 30 seconds. It was up the hill. and over the top and gone. And if you look at the topo maps of that place, now it's very, very steep. And it has an attribute now,

I look back of a lot of the lakes that I've done a lot of filming with my YouTube channel now, and the attributes are it's very steep, usually very remote, and steep remote, there's usually one access point in for

the humans, but for the creature there's just many, and there's a lot of cover. And, you know, that's what was craziest, the ease that it moved. You know, it was very, when something's that big, whether it's an elephant line, whatever, and it moves,

I think that's what's amazing. This thing was just smooth. You know, and there's no way it was, it was anything man in a costume or, I mean, because, you know, and I know you've interviewed a lot of guys, and it was just, I think that's the word, just, it was smooth, very

smooth. It was like, you know, it's been in a it's a long time, you know. Yeah, and you hear a lot of witnesses talk about that. I mean, I've spoken about that. I'm sure you have, too, with the other encounters, that I had one witness one time. He said, it moved, it reminded him moving like you would see a mountain lion move. Just smooth, effortless, and that's really how you described it. And he's right.

It's very smooth. It's very effortless. For the size of these things, you would think they'd be a lot more clumsy. You would think that they would be loud like a bear. or stumble like a bear, but you're right, they're very, very smooth. At what point did you decide you were going to start looking for these things? I know this happened when you were younger, but as you got older, at what point did you think, I'm going to go start looking for these things?

I'm going to start really investigating this. Well, this February of this year, 2016, I was around an area that had a lot of encounters, but I just didn't realize it. And I've always been an outdoorsman, always been a woodsman. And when I'm out in the woods before this time, you know, I had always wondered back to it, you know, is there something here? And I was around one of our local lakes front that I do a lot of filming. And I went a little stream that flows into the lake, a little tributary. And I was walking.

And I heard something behind me. And then I turned, when I kept walking up, there's a little slot canyon. And there's a tree. And I've got a picture of it on my YouTube channel. And there's one sitting there. And it's like a juvenile. It was very small. And when that happened, I was like, I didn't move because once again, it was just everything came back.

The emotions came back from the first one. I mean, it hit me like a ton of bricks. It was like, oh, wow. And what's odd is I got a pitcher. And after I got the picture, I don't remember too much after. I remember getting up and walking straight away from me, but I did not, I didn't even have an idea to take another picture. And I think what it is is kind of what we talked about yesterday is the psychology of a sighting. I was so stunned.

It was just like, but it was almost, it was almost mystical. Like this time I meant to, you know, it meant for me to get a fishery. It meant for it to walk off. and with the psychology I call it the psychology of a siding you know you have a lot of people say well I'd throw down on that thing

I ought to draw down and no no you won't because I think it like you said it shakes the mind it shakes the senses and it kind of like you said it reboots it's very it's very odd

so once I saw the one in February I started doing a lot of research and knew some of the people that lived around the lake and sort of asking them, and they're like, yeah, this has been happening. You know, and what was weird about them, they had had encounters with this creature for 60-70 years, and their family had had encounters and just never talked about them. I mean, it was just something that happened,

and that really, really intrigued me. You know, once I got to interview with him. I interviewed one time, and then that was in March after, I had my encounter, and then they wouldn't talk about it. They started having stuff happen around their house. Their house and car would have stuff pelted, you know, around the car, around the property. So after that, I said, you know what? I'm just going to start looking and filming this thing myself.

And that's how I started filming with a YouTube, you know. And it was, it's been an amazing journey. You know, I've learned a lot of lessons. I've seen it two or three times. I got one video where I'm coming up on the hill, and I'm graphing about the YouTube community, basically, about how people are trolls and stuff like that. And I hear this weird scream, and I'm filming to the left and the right, and I see some movement, but I hear this god-awful scream, and I still don't know what it was to this day. And I focus my camera, and there's one looking at me, just straight looking at me, brown, and on my YouTube channel, you can see it. And what is crazy about it is my battery died.

I had a full battery. I was ready, and my battery died. So I'm sitting there, and I'm changing my battery, and why I'm changing my battery, I'm looking at this thing still, still staring at me. And I'm thinking, okay, you'll go nowhere to it. Get another battery in, film it for about, I don't know exactly how long it was. Boom, second battery going, just like that. And I'm very religious about checking my batteries, making sure they don't drain.

And once my second battery drain, that creature got up, looked me dead, and I turned around and walked off like it was nothing. So this, you know, it was just crazy. It was just earth-shaking. And then I started talking to a lot of people, and a lot of people had battery drain just like that, you know. Yeah, I want to come back to the battery drain. but when the creature stood up and looked at you, can you describe what you saw for the audience? Yes, it looked almost like a caveman.

I can't pronounce it the word. Like a caveman, basically. Had a high brow across, straight across. The face was, the face was really bunched up. It was very noticeable the face. It was huge. I mean, I think this one was about, if he wasn't 8 feet tall he was 9 feet tall

and he looked right at me and then when he walked off big broad shoulders his shoulders like it was they were 3 feet wide 3 or 4 I mean it was huge and he was just nonchalant walked right off you know and brown

kind of a light brown hair and I couldn't tell if it was really long or if it was kind of short but he in another thing it moved through the woods very silent. I didn't hear any crunching when it walked up. And it was all right. And I was like, whoa. You know? And so once my second battery died, I was like, you know, I'm getting out of here.

And the next day, the next day, you can ask my wife, I didn't sleep any that night, any that night. I was so stutter. I've got to go back and check that. I've got to go back and check that. So I got up early next morning, four o'clock in the morning. It was in the woods by six. It was light. hop down there, went to where it was, and it was a huge place where it had laid down, apparently. And, you know, I was so excited, you know, but even I had doubt because I want to debunk if I can't. I think a good investigator tries to debunk. And once I saw where it lay down, I was just like, dude, you know, it just blew me away, you know. I can imagine.

I can definitely imagine. What's your take on the batteries dying? What do you think about that? It's a strange coincidence, isn't it? It is. And there's another thing that has happened around when I've got around with some of the tree bins. I've had several instances where I'm filming. I'm around bins that's over old forest roads and over, you know, just in the woods and the bush.

My camera does something very odd. And some of my videos you can see it, it'll do it like a jumping motion. Whenever you zoom in and zoom out, and I have a Panasonic Lumox camera, and I sit it into the manufacturer because I was worried. So my videos, when I would focus around the tree bins, it would shape. They send it back to me, no, Mr. Rosen, there's nothing wrong with your camera. So I don't know if it has something to do with the tree bins or the battery dine. It has to be tied in altogether because I've had other instances where nothing happened with the battery.

You know, I've had some with the battery, some without, you know, and when they get around the tree bans, I've also had battery, a tree, pardon me, I've had battery drain with the tree bans. You know, and that's one thing I've asked to arrange here this, lives in Tullyinational Forest. I've asked them, I said, you know, dude, what's up with all of these close roads? I said, they go places, but you close them. And a lot of these closed roads that I've been on have huge tree bins over the roads. what does that have to do with something? I don't know. And he would tell me, he'd say, you know, Jonathan, we don't know.

And to me, I think they do know. And so I have a friend that is an aerial surveyor. And what he does, he has a couple of airplanes, and he films sections of the ground for GIS mapping. And so when I asked him, I said, hey, dude, I've got some areas that I've been wondering about. and he would tell me there is a lot of times that I would give him when I would find tree beans and where my camera would mess up, he would say that they would have amalgam, magnet, immology, I can't say the word.

An anomaly. Magnetid. Like an anomaly. Yeah. During these places. So a lot of times I was thinking, you know, maybe there's something to that. Maybe there's something to the tree bins. And he would ask me, well, why are you asking me this?

And I would say, well, this, this, this. And he would say, well, that's weird because they move around. And sometimes they have to completely refry, refly areas. So I'm thinking with some of these roads, with these being camera malfunctions, that, you know, maybe David Pilates does have a point. Maybe that's where something happens, you know? And you know, just like me, the more you investigate with this stuff, the more stranger it gets. Yeah, that's true.

It's true. The more you look into this, the weirder it gets. and I hate to say that because I would love for it not to get weird. Yeah, especially out there, you know, but you're right. The more you look into it, the more strange it seems to get. You know, the one you got on picture sitting there, you definitely got something there. I'm kind of surprised it hasn't made the rounds on the Internet more than it has, and it looks small.

Is that just a picture? I mean, the thing looks like it's, compared to like, a 12 or a 13 year old kid. Yeah, that was exactly. It was just small. It was very small. And, I mean, it was very, very, and that's what was weird about it. And when it walked off, it, you know, it walked like a grown-up.

It wasn't, it didn't, I mean, it moved very smooth in the woods. It didn't. You know, if you're a kid and you walk off, you're going to skip, you're going to jump, you're going to maybe trip over something. This thing didn't. But, yes, it was very small, very small. very small. Did the creature vocalize or anything as it walked off?

No, it looked, once I got the picture, and here's what I was odd about it, is when I got the picture, it was just like, it knew I got it, and it was just like, okay, we're done here, photo session, done, and once it turned and walked off, no, it didn't vocalize or anything. It was very, you know, and I think that's why I was so stunned, because it was like, hey, I'm just going through the neighborhood here, you know, because I've had several people, why can you take another picture? And I was like, you know, I don't know. I think I was just stunned, you know, but they did not vocalize, no.

Yeah, and in most people, even your hardcore researchers or investigators, whatever they are, even those people in those situations would be hard-pressed to sit there and start filming or even take their camera out. It doesn't really matter if you've encountered them in the past, I found anyway. But when you encounter them again, you're just as terrified. as you were the first time around. And you have that moment of what the hell did I just get myself into? And I would imagine I'd feel the same way even if I came across a smaller one.

Have you had anything aggressive happen out there? Or have you had any aggressive reports around that lake? Not around that lake. I have had several aggressive encounters that I actually caught on camera that were growls. And what was very weird about the growls is when it happened. I couldn't see it. And that right there is freaky. And it said I had two different encounters with the grouse.

One was kind of like a rededrin group of trees. And I seen it on the path and it went to the left. And then I went into the little trees, the herdivins or mountain laurels, whatever they were. And once I went in, you could see stick structures. and then, but after I got to a certain point, then it growled, and I was like, you know what, this is, this got the tactical advantage, and I left.

The other one was at a place called Pine Glen Campground that's in the Tallinn National Forest. Now, I was there by myself, set the camera up, and as soon as I had the camera up, I heard the growl. Datton was very, another one, but what was odd about the growl, it was very, it was very loud, but there was nothing,

around. That one kind of freaked me out. It really did because, you know, it was summertime, everything birds were chirping, and you could hear the growl, you can hear it on camera, but there's nothing there. And that one kind of freaked me out. It really did because it's, I mean, whether you get a ground, there's nothing there, and you're like, uh-oh, you know, this thing, if it wanted to, it could do some damage. Because that, because, you know, I scanned around, I'm scanning around with the camera, nothing there. You know, and it was intense, but I've always, in the woods, I've always didn't want to panic because, and it was, I was lucky that time because I was in the campground.

I wasn't out in the bush. Now, if I've been out and I hear a growl, it's going to scare me. It's going to scare me, B-Tunct, because I know that at any time, it could possibly take me out, and give me, do whatever the hell it wants to do. And I have a lot of people ask me, aren't you scared? And I am scared sometimes, but a lot of times I'm so far back, I cannot give into that fear. And on the other hand, there's been several times that if it wanted to take me out, it could. And I'd be honest with me, because I think a lot of people take a gun, take a 44, you can shoot it.

I don't think you would get that opportunity if it was super aggressive. I don't think the ones in Alabama are super aggressive. Now, the ones in Texas, they probably are. I haven't encountered one that was super aggressive to the point that I was worried for my life because when I'm out there filming and I'm out so far in the bush, I have to be very controlled in my thinking because if I get panicked and I start running or whatever, I'm going to get hurt and I just, you know, I have to be very level-headed, you know. I can definitely understand that.

It's interesting, you know, the area around the lake, you'd mentioned you spoke with some of the people around there, what type of encounters were they having out there? What I worry that they had told me is the grandfather had, once they had downed the lake up, had bought land close to the lake. And he apparently, I think 60 or 70 years of, had seen it right off. And they were, they were part Cherokees, I think is what he told me. And his thing was, is they left them alone. And by saying, first. They left each other alone. And they had he said an understanding,

you know. And for generations, this guy's dad saw it, his grandfather saw it, and it was just understood that this side, this was your side of the lake, and this was mine and everything was fine. Once I started filming him and started talking about them and really

I guess hunting, hunting them, they broke off, contact and the reason they broke off contact they said that the stuff started changing stuff would be thrown at their cars their houses sticks placed on top of the car and they were afraid that since I had interviewed them did it kind of changed the dynamic and they were Cherokee like I said before so they were a little bit more spiritual with it and had I don't know if they ever left offerings for it or whatever. But it was like the balance of power had been upset.

When I had filmed Mac at the lake where his dad had some of the counters, we actually saw, in that first video with Mac, we actually saw one at the top of the hill appearing over, and I got it on camera. So after that, they broke off contact. But it always was a peaceful cohabitation with each one of them. Until I filmed them, and once I filmed them, everything kind of went to hell in the handbasket, I guess. And I respected that because they lived there. They've lived there for a long time, so I knew that there was an understanding.

And I talked to them every once in a while, and the activity has went down. But they were very – I did feel bad because activity picked up. When I started up, and that's when I backed off. That's really interesting. I don't know that I've heard that before, but it's an interesting take on the whole thing. You know, you showing up and the dynamic of the relationship kind of changes. And where I had saw the juvenile was where his grandfather in the 30s, whenever the lake was damned, had had an encounter. So, you know, it's almost like, I guess if you believe in fate, fate led me there for some reason, you know.

And that's one of my main hunting areas now with me and my team is we go there quite a bit a lot. We were there Saturday night, and we're still there quite a bit. And if they've left them alone, but we still got to get a lot of really good evidence there. What type of vocalizations do you get in the area? We get a lot of, we get a lot of yells. We've got some whoops. We haven't got very many woodnots. We've got one or two.

We've got one here recently where we had, we're starting to really think outside the box. And I had talked to you about it where we had the spirit box. And this was about two miles from their house. We were in the old ravine. And I told John, I said, well, let's do a spirit box session. It's such a different kind of thing. And he said, okay, so we started filming. And as soon as he started up, we got.

We got a yell, but then the coyotes, they were right on top of the audio. And around that area, a lot of times if an airplane goes over, if a train goes by that you can hear, they will be right up under that audio. And one thing with the coyotes that's very odd about them is they will, the Bigfoot vocalizations will start up. Then the coyotes will come over it. And my theory is two things. either start vocalization and they scare the coyotes, one theory, or number two, they use the coyotes as a cover, or three, it's the Bigfoot coyotes are the same thing, but it's, I don't know, it's just very odd because they love to be undercover.

We've got them on audio, only one or two times just them just going by themselves. another thing that they do is they do an owl call and what's funny is I've got a recording close to Mack's house where it's an owl starts off as an owl and then it gets choked up and it's it's it's it's about a minute a little bit of the funniest thing ever it gets choked up and then it tries to start back and it can't sound like an aisle no more and I've sent it to several universities and they're like Jonathan this is this is not an hour owl. But it's mostly the yells, the owls. Have you ever heard something called a bonyic bird? I have, yeah. We hear a lot of that, a lot of that. And what's crazy, when we set out our

recorders, we'll get, they'll be two, three miles apart. And you'll hear one with one recorder. And then 10 seconds later, you hear another one. And that is a, that's a pretty amazing thing to hear. Because it's really, because you know they're close. You know, we've been, We've been down in the woods several times and heard it. I mean, it had to been within a 500,000 feet of us. And then hear it start calling. So, yeah, that's type of the vocalizations we get around there. It's interesting.

You mentioned the coyotes and the Sasquatch. The first time I really noticed that was out at the Browns property here in Washington State. You would hear the Sasquatch go off and then you hear the coyotes go off. Well, I noticed the exact same thing when I was in Texas. you'd hear the Sasquatch go off, and then all the coyotes would all start going off at once. And you're right, it does overpower that first yell. And I know some people have taken heat when they record it, and people go, ah, it's just coyotes. Well, listen to the first 10 seconds.

That's not a coyote in there. The rest of them are coyotes. And it's interesting. May she wonder if they're setting the coyotes off or if they're working together or if they're using it just as a cover. They'll know the coyotes will go off if they scream and yell. Oh, yeah. Well, I've got a recording where a well-known Bigfoot show was recorded in Silicon Alabama. The guys invited me down there. So I went down there and I go there quite a bit. And there is a, it starts off as a Bigfoot call like two, three seconds. Then it goes into a coyotes call. And the coyotes are cutting up. And then you start hearing them yelping. And it's crazy because you start hearing them yelping. And then, And if you've ever heard coyotes, this never happens silence.

I mean, dead silence. And we all looked at each other like, uh-oh, somebody just got their ass won't. You know, but it's odd because I have never heard, I've heard coyotes trail off. I've heard them, you know, running the distance, whatever, but I've never heard them completely stop like that. And so I wonder a lot about that audio, you know, was it by them or something? and it startled them. I mean, that audio was very intriguing to me because I've never heard of coyote just stopped dead like that, you know. Yeah, it is interesting.

And then I was thinking about your spirit boxing. And I know some people might roll their eyes at that. But, you know, it's like I was telling you the guy in Texas that I know. Yeah. He's a ghost hunter. And I'm a firm believer in demons, ghosts, whatever you want to call him. There's more to this world, despite what most people think going on in this world. But he had one of those voice box.

And I can't know that. I don't know the official name for it, but basically it's a spirit box or a voice box or whatever. And I guess it allows the spirit to talk through this box. He was out there one night with the Bigfoot guy. And the Bigfoot guy was telling the Ghost Hunter, well, ask him if he's seen any Bigfoot's around here. And so the Ghost Turner did. And this was all caught on tape.

And he asked him, and he was asking the Spirit if there was Sasquatch out here. any bigfoot or any large monkeys. And the voice came back and said, yes, they're very destructive. And I just thought that was fascinating. I mean, I really thought that's really an out-of-the-box approach. And that area that they're in is notorious for sightings. It's also pretty well known for ghost sightings, too, as well. But it's, I thought, hey, that's fascinating to me. I mean, maybe the audience thinks that's a boring story. But I thought it was fascinating, that whole thing. When you're looking for these creatures,

what are some of the things that you look for when you're in an area where you think, we'll check this area out? The first thing that we do is usually is I take an audio sampling. I take, you know, Sony digital recorders, and it's very simple. It's so simple.

It's funny. And I'll put them in a Ziploc bag, and I'll fill them, and I'll time them to a tree, and I'll space them out, a mile or two apart, two or three miles apart. And I'm doing a hobbyo sampling for a week or two.

One time I did 12 weeks, and I had all kinds of recordings. And once I get the sampling and start hearing things, I usually, we'll do some preliminary day investigations, look for tree structures, footprints, and just kind of see what the area looks like in the day. Then when we do a night investigation, we go out there to dark. And I used to go out there and how it shine a light lot. And not no more. We've completely changed.

What we do is we go out. We go completely dark. And once we go completely dark, a lot of times they will come in and approach. We've also found out, too, if you build a campfire a lot of times, that they will come up to the campfire. And, I mean, I'm talking about close. You can hear them moving. And so once we do the audio sampling, we know what's in the area.

And we've set out audio recorders. didn't get anything. But then again, we've, you know, we've got stuff. So we pretty much know then the area's activity is active. Then we'll go in the database and we'll look for activity reports in that area, Bigfoot sightings. And sometimes there is, sometimes there isn't. And that's how we've found some of our best areas is that way. Kind of trial and error sampling. I'm a firm believer in the scientific process, trying to do it in the scientific way. Now, a lot of times out there filming, and when you're in the dark, that goes out the window because, you know, crazy stuff starts happening.

And once we have stuff on audio recorder, we know that it's an active area. We know something. A lot of times we'll talk to the Forest Service workers, and we'll talk to the Rangers, and a lot of times, and I recommend this for any Bigfoot researchers, make friends with them. Take them coffee. If they're working, you know, stop and give them a water. And eventually, a lot of these relationships I've built up over months, and they'll talk to you. And they'll tell you, hey, man, we saw something over here.

We couldn't explain. And with the Rangers, watch their eyes. You ask them a question, and they dart to the left, or they start him hauling around. Just be a people watcher. And you can pretty much tell if somebody is covering something. up. And usually a person area we have a question about. We'll ask them about it and just watch the reaction. The forest workers, a lot of times they actually clears the trails and clears the forest service roads. Oftentimes they'll tell you. They'll be right up honestly. Hey, yeah, we saw something over there.

You know, and I've had many times when I'm off by myself on a forest service road, and at the gates open and I go through it, it's a national forest, they film and come out and the rangers are there. Hey, how you doing? I've been talked to them. And to me, that's always very, I mean, how do they know that I'm out there? Y'all got sensors out here? No, no, no, no, no, sensors. We just saw you truck wanting to talk.

And they know what I'm doing, you know. So it's, I know, it's very odd. Yeah, and it's a good idea to cultivate those relationships with a lot of those people. Because you're right, if they're comfortable with you and you get them one-on-one, and they know you don't have a camera and you don't have a microphone, they'll tell you stuff. And I'm talking at the lower level. These guys will tell you stuff. Do you think the government's covering this up?

I do because here's what's odd. You know, and I've asked the Rangers and then the Forest Service work, if you know, how come over 527, how come 527 shut today? And sometimes I'm out there every day. Sometimes I'm out just the weekends. Oh, well, we're just, we're doing some brush control, forest fire control there, you know. And then I come up there two later and it's open.

And I'll go down it and look. So I do think there is some government involved. I'm pretty sure there has to be. You know, it's just like with the David Pilates thing. And, you know, if you believe in portals and stuff with the Bigfoot stuff over the roads, yeah, there have to be a reason, rhyme or reason why they keep these roads shut. Some of them are open. Some of them are closed.

And, you know, like I said, when I'm out there hunting, Bigfoot hunting, And they know I'm out there. How do they know I'm out there besides seeing my truck? Of course, seeing my truck. So, yeah, I do think there is some government involvement. You know, there has to be. Yeah, I think they would have. I think the government's already solved this.

So you and I are on the same path. I think they already have this figured out. Now, why they're covering it up is a whole different story. But I definitely, I'm with you 100%. I think that they are covering these creatures, beings, whatever you want to call them, animals. they are definitely covering them up. What do you hoping to accomplish while you're out there?

What is it that you're, what's the main goal for going out there? It's just, you know, a document unknown. You know, not just Bigfoot. If it's a dog man, dog man, if it's a UFO, UFO, paranormal, paranormal. What the Bigfoot is, is just try to get it on camera. And, you know, once you hear the yells and you see this thing, try to document it.

And I preach just to a lot of people that want to go on hunts and want to, and I take some people out every once in a while. And I tell them is I want to document, document, document, because if you do not have no documentation, it did not happen. And I hate to be like that, but, you know, yes, when I approach a witness or somebody that see somebody, I do not have that attitude when I'm interviewing because 90% of time they wanted to get it out of their mind, and they don't have documentation.

A lot of times they're true. And I preach this to my team guys a lot, document, document, document. So I want to just, you don't want to document because something is out there. You cannot go out in the woods at night time, in the daytime, hear a whoop, hear a yell, and say there's nothing out there. You know, I mean, and I have a lot of skeptics, and that's good. Skeptics are good for business because eventually a skeptic. in my opinion, will become a believer when they have that encounter, and they will. You know, so I just want to document, you know, because like I told you today, I think it's probably been on camera hundreds of times.

But there's just so many people that are skeptics that don't want to believe, that don't want to cross that bridge of belief and admit something is outside their realm of comfort. You know, so I want to document it. And, you know, like we talked to you yesterday, once you hear that yell, you know that something is out there. And it is the most fabulous, it's the most awesome thing in the world because you cannot explain it. And you'll play it for somebody. They're like, well, that's an animal. Well, and then I'll send it to a university. Well, no, that's not an animal.

We don't know what that is, Mr. Adams. So it's document and it's fascination. You know, you go out five or six hunts and we'll have nothing. but then that one hunt, you'll get a yell or you'll see a glimpse of something, some eyes shine. And it's just, I guess you can tell I'm enthused by it. It's changed my life. It's a wonderful thing, you know. I can completely understand where you're coming from.

Are you opposed to one being shot? You know what? I don't think one will ever be shot. And I'm not opposed to it. If it happens, I want to shake the person's hand from number one. now there's been several accounts where it supposedly has happened and in it possibly could i think for science i wouldn't have a problem with it because i think once you open that door that door is never going to be closed again it's just like with people with uh UFO disclosure

well once if the government ever said comes out and says yes there's there's big foot yes there's UFOs that door is never going to be closed again so i wouldn't be object to it but I don't know. The person that brings one down, I want to shake his head because, you know, I don't know if they can be. But that's my personal opinion, you know. And I understand that. And, you know, there is a lot of strange things that go on, not in every encounter. I would say most encounters are pretty, I don't want to say boring, but you don't have a lot of the weird stuff happen in probably 90% of the encounters.

people just running across these things. You know, your hunters, your hikers, your campers. What's interesting, though, is when you get into an area that you keep going back to and you keep going back to, or let's say they're around your property and these creatures keep approaching, it's in those situations to where weird things happen, like your battery's being drained. You might look at that and go, well, that's a coincidence. Well, that's not the first coincidence I've heard with these things. And I think with these creatures, my own personal belief is I still think it's a form of a wild animal that can absolutely be killed.

But I guess for me, and I know you're pretty open too, Jonathan, as you investigate this, it's very disingenuous not to look into all aspects of this thing. And why? Because there's so many questions that most, hardly anyone could answer. can talk about their behavior. We can talk about the sounds they make. We can talk about tree structures or the rock throwing. Very, very primate type behavior. But I've heard from a lot of very sincere people about some weird things that go on with these things. And I don't know what box to put, I mean, I don't even know what box to put Sasquatch in beyond wild animal, but, and I could be wrong. And even saying that. But when you get some of the more

weird stuff, it's kind of, you know, it's kind of frustrating for me, because I, I don't know what to do with that. I believe it happened. I just don't know what to say to you about that. Yeah. And I totally agree because, you know, like we talked about yesterday, once you start looking for this creature, we'll use that word as a safe word creature,

it opens up a whole other dimension of things. And you know, the Cherokee, every Native American in America has talked about these things. And, you know, in some form they talk as a physical being. Some form they talk as a spiritual being. And I think that's what's fascinating. You know, when I'm doing this 20 years, I don't think I'll still, I'll know. Because once you start looking, the rabbit hole gets deeper and opens up bigger and bigger. You know, and it's a fascinating thing.

You know, there's times that I've seen it and I've like, it's a real creature. Physically touch it. And then there's times that I've wondered what happened to it, you know. And you're absolutely right. I agree with you 100% it's fascinating. You know, you know,

it's just, it's some, you know, it's just up with the little people. A couple weeks ago, we were filming around the cemetery, and we were going down, and we,

there was reports of activity in this cemetery, a big foot activity. So we're going along filming, and it's cold, and we, I sweep my camera around, and I have a big 160-ball blight that I put on my camera,

L-A-D-L-L-L-A-L-L-L-L-E-Lat, and I saw, week to the left and I see this little man about a foot and half tall in green and I was like oh and in my buddy in the video you can hear you can hear you and what is it I said I said I just saw a little green man another instance of wow when you go down that road other things open up and and and since then I've done study and I've heard people talk some of your guests have talked about little people and it was so odd to see it and experience it. It was just, you know, it was like, okay, your mind's blown enough of big foot,

but let's just throw this in here. So it's, it really can go into a lot of different things, you know, it's, I don't know, it's amazing. I'm curious. I'm sorry. Oh, I wanted to ask you, what did the creature do? Nothing. It was like a miniature human being about a foot top. When I swept, it looked at me.

And then it jumped. It disappeared. That was what's crazy. And, you know, I was not, oh, what just happened? I mean, it was just odd. You know, it was there one minute, I swept. Does I have a camera in one hand, a light and another? And then, boom, gone.

I don't know. It was odd. Yeah, no, I can imagine. It was there. It was not there the next minute. But it didn't really freak me out. I didn't feel any kind of fear or anything like that. And so, you know, and I had heard reports before, and I just, you know, kept them,

and my buddy went on something about how before UFOs were seen, people had seen a little green man. And I was like, well, yeah, I guess that. You know, it was so out of the ordinary, and it happened. It was just, and then when I think about it, I'm like, wow, that's pretty amazing, you know. Oh, he wasn't green because of the night vision? He was actually green? Yeah, yeah, actually, no, it was no Navision. Yeah, he was actually green.

That's what was weird about it, because he was like, what the, you know what? You know? Oh, yeah. That's strange. Yeah, no, and it's, I just had Tom Seawood on the last couple shows right around Thanksgiving, I think it was. And he was talking about the little people and how the fire crew was putting out a forest fire. Pretty soon here comes this little beam popping out of a downfall tree. And then three or four of its buddies get out of this downfall trees too as well.

And then all the firefighters quit. They want nothing to do with it. They're not going back up there. And, you know, he went into some details about the little people. But I've had witnesses on that have seen them. I think the smallest one that the person I had on, she said it was about three feet tall. And it looked just like a little person. It didn't really, it was hairy like a Sasquatch, but it was proportioned.

It was very much proportioned and looked very much human-like when she saw it. And so, you know, and the natives talk about them, being one to four feet tall, depending on what Native Americans you talk to, they'll describe these little people. Most Native Americans really don't have a whole lot of good things to say about them, though, I've noticed, especially down the southwest. They're spoken about as being very vicious. Yeah. And, you know, it's just, I mean, nothing really, something did happen after that, but I, and neither were talking about it, I did trip over a tree and smack my knee pretty hard. None of I think about it. And, but, you know, I, you know, as you said that, I didn't, nothing really bad happening except for, I busted my knee, hurt my knee really bad, but it was, you know, it was just, you know, it was just, I've had a lot of odd things happen.

And, you know, a lot of people ask me, well, you can react very different on that. Because I've had a lot of stuff happen like it. And it's just when it happens, I don't know, it's just, it's unusual dealing with the unusual, you know. Yeah, it is. It is very. And sometimes you're not really sure what to make of it. You know, it's bad enough seeing a Sasquatch, but when you have these other weird things happen, especially out of the woods. I mean, there's weird things that happen to Woody and I, when we're a hundred things.

hunting. I've talked about it on many shows where it sounded like a horse running right past us, and there was nothing there. This is way before Bigfoot. And both of us being very confused and looking at each other, and I'm like, what just happened? But you don't know, you try and sum it up in your mind, well, maybe sound trap, maybe it was an elk running and the sound traveled and sometimes sound bounces in weird ways in the forest. But it was probably one of the strangest things that ever happened to me. I mean, it sounded like this thing just ran between the two of us. There was nothing there. I mean, to this day, I can't explain it. The only way I chalk it up is maybe sound was bouncing and elk was running further up on the hill and the sound just

bounced weird. I don't know. But it is. I mean, when you have weird things happen, sometimes you don't know what to make of it. You know what I mean? Yeah. Well, one of the episodes on my YouTube channel is a dogman episode. So once I got those new team members together. We went at night investigated, and we were going up a hill, and one of my guys was like, you know, I see a lot off in the distance.

And we were 15 miles back. We rode in on a mule like six miles and then walked six miles in. And so we saw this lot. It was like a will-o-wist, like Spockspire. And then one of my team members went to the left. Me one went

to the right, so I'm on the inside left. And I shot my lot beside my buddy, and there's a guy in a western, looks like a long western coat, up on top of the hill to the right of it. I was like, dude, who is that? He thought, what are you talking about? Turned my light again, and it was gone. Now, right where we were standing was an old grave that had been there since the 1890s.

And it was, like you said, that split second, you see something, and then you're like, wow and then it got him freaked out and I totally understand that it was right beside him you know and you know we went ahead and finished our investigation and that just blew my mind and I've also got a friend that does a normal investigation he lives around up on shallow Tennessee and he's talked about the horse thing and actually heard horses on the battlefield you know and it's yeah I totally that that's that's that's that's that's that's that's don't surprise me at one bet, you know. That would almost terrify me more than running into a Sasquatch.

I think running into a demon or a ghost or whatever people want to call it, that would terrify me more than running into a Sasquatch, at least with the Sasquatch, I got a chance. But you run in, I mean, you got a chance of fighting, whether as little all the chances you think you have, but you can't fight stuff like that. And it's interesting, too, when you talk to a lot of these researchers, they run into stuff like that and they never talk about it. Privately, they'll tell you all kinds of weird stuff that happened to them out in the woods. Publicly, they'll never talk about it. And so it's terrifying when you run into stuff like that. I mean, how do you explain that? An old Western cowboy

standing up there on the hill next to your friend, you go back and he's gone. That would be time for in my mind. That'd be time to go. Time to get out of here. Yeah. And we actually did because The creek factor was so strong. And we go over stream. So, yeah, when we did lead, because it was just like, okay, it's time to, we've been out here a couple hours. It's time to, and it was the same place that I had that dog man encounter. And that encounter pretty much at the moment when I was filming, I didn't know what was happening to me. And what I mean by that is I was very confused, very upset.

Didn't know what was going. I couldn't find the cemetery that I was looking for. Once I got home and started coming to my footage, I got ice cold seals because I saw what was in my footage at the very end of my footage. I saw what was this creature. It was like about seven or eight feet tall, all in black, but the head looked like it had an antler on it. And I think it was a dog man. But did the whole time I was filming, I was confused. didn't know what was going on once I got out.

And in that encounter, once I looked back over my footage, I knew what was happening, but in the moment I did not. And that was a terrifying encounter now that I look back on it. It almost made me stop going by myself, but it didn't, but it almost did. Yeah, and that would terrify me. So at the time you didn't see the creature? No. What happened is when I was going in, I come across several big stick structures,

and over this old Forest Service Road that was not used anymore, is decommissioned. And before I crossed the stream, I was looking for a cemetery, old abandoned cemetery, it had showed up on the tophal maps back into the 1890s, and it's still, it's on today's toposmaps. And once I crossed the stream, I started getting real disorientated. I couldn't find the cemetery. The cemetery is exactly where it was supposed to. to be. Went back later and found it, but I couldn't find it. So I was wondering around in the woods, and if you watch my footage, you'll see that

I'm very confused. 99% of the time when I'm in the woods by myself, I'm very in control, but you can watch my footage, and I'm very confused, and I was getting frustrated. I was like, where is this thing at? But then I started hearing odd things in the woods, and I was like, well, before I crossed the stream, before the oddness happened, I saw, and I've had range, several rangers tell me about this off the record and for service records. I've seen, off in the distance on the hill, you could see a shimmering in the woods. And I've captured

just several times on video. And I've had, they've told me, do not go toward these areas. And they will never tell me why, just tell me not to go toward these areas. Like a light show? It's almost like a shimmering with heat, but it's not heat. Okay. It's almost like a pixelization of a picture. It's almost like there's. There's a fake TV up there, and it's pixelating, an old-timey TV pixel lady in the woods, and I've caught it on camera several times. So before I crossed the stream, I had just caught that off in the woods. On the video, I can zoom in and you see it, and I talk about don't go toward these places.

When I crossed the stream, everything went crazy. I couldn't find where I was that. I couldn't find the cemetery, so I got really confused. And what's weird about that is I do mapping conference. Oh, it's a good mapping compass. The compass was spinning around. It was just crazy. And so it got me a water out, and I said, okay, let's just calm down.

Let's figure out what's going on here. And I'm standing on a rock, and I see something I did corner of my eye dart around the rock. And it's like a black object. It was not a big foot. It was more like a spirit or something. I was like, oh, crap. So I chased it around. So I'm winded because I'm going uphill.

And I look down at my watch, and I love Luminox watch. It's love them. And my watch said five minutes before when I came in, I was like, that's impossible. That's impossible. My phone, Samsung Galaxy 7 phone, said 905. And I was like, what? and so my camera said 11 something and I was like okay I don't know what's going on here but it's time to get out once that happened I got out there for it was it took me about 30 or 40 minutes just to get out

you know and then you know I told you yesterday my wife was freaking out it was where you been and because I try to let somebody know where I'm going so once I got home I was like you know what's going on? I'm never like this in the woods. I'm very calm in the woods, very at ease in the woods. So I got my footage out, started looking through all of it. And I've got a scene when I cross the, I've got a scene where I'm filming when I cross the stream, that I'm panning and I'm talking to the camera like I do narrating.

And I zoom in, and when I was zooming in, I did not notice this thing standing beside the tree. I mean, I just didn't see it. I still don't know how I just. and see it. And so I was up and you can actually see it in my footage and it is crazy. Then once I saw it in my footage I knew exactly I knew it was it was not Bigfoot. I knew it wasn't Bigfoot but it was paranormal. It had to been something paranormal and it explained all the stuff that had happened and once I uploaded the footage I had some a medicine man and a medicine woman had email me. She said hey this is what this is you need to be careful and after that I was like.

Oh, my God, you know. But I knew what was happening to me in the woods, and it explained everything. Yeah, and I know you're into the paranormal. So for a lot of people wondering why it didn't just completely freak you out, that's why. Because Jonathan actually has done a lot of stuff with the paranormal in the past, so it probably wouldn't shake you up quite as much as it might, you know, like for me, I'd be like, I'm out of here. What did the medicine man and medicine woman say?

What did they say you ran into? They said it was a dog man. And what they said, it was a dog man, you know, I started asking them. I said, what does that mean? And they told me, they said these things, and they're around a lot of burial grounds. I said, but this was a American, you know, this was a regular person. So it was not a Native American burial ground. And they were like, well, a lot of times burial grounds are,

built on Native American bear guns, which I did not know that. And they said these things will manifest a body of an animal. And that's how they manifest. And that freaked me out even more because I'm thinking, you know, so it's Native American and it's around a grave or an Indian barrel ground, and it basically reanimates something dead out there. And the guy was like, yeah, this is that good to us. And then, you know, once I found that out, man, it did scare me.

I'll tell you, I was like, oh, because it was daylight, you know. And that, but it didn't scare me too much because we went back at night time, you know. And it's, and that's what they explained to me. And it was very unusual, I thought, for them to even be talking about it. But they had seen my video and reached out to me. And it was very lucky. It was an honor for them to reach out. tell me. Since then, since we've went back at night time, I don't go very much to that area.

We get a lot of weird audio recordings from that area, but they really helped me. And I'm still in contact with them, you know, but once they warned me and I was like, well, I guess I better leave this alone. But they were very, they were freaked out by it, actually. Yeah, I've noticed when you talk about the dog man, I know every Native American kind of has their own, every tribe kind of has their own little word for it. But it's a very taboo subject with a lot of Native Americans. You bring up the dog man and they shut down pretty quick. I've only had a very few people talk about it. And when they talk about it, it's very taboo. Most of the time they don't want to talk about it publicly. But they'll tell you all sorts of

things about the dog man. But I've heard what the medicine man and woman told you. I've heard that on more than one occasion. And it's interesting too when witnesses come across the dog man, they always describe it as evil or they always describe it as something wasn't right. There wasn't something right about it. And you don't quite get that with Sasquatch. You don't get people saying, I mean, sometimes you'll get witnesses that'll say it was evil, but not every witness will come back and say, well, it was evil. But with the dog man, it seems like most, I'd probably say 99% of the witnesses that have come across it,

they will say it's evil. There was something absolutely wrong with it. So that's interesting. And it's interesting, too, the weird, I've heard that before. I don't want to speak on it at the moment, but I've heard something similar to what happened to you, Jonathan. I want to say there's a term for it. Maybe it was Bob Garrett that was talking about. I have to ask him.

But I have heard that before, that happening to people. And, you know, in the evil, that's, you know, I alluded that my father was a preacher. and when I look back on what happens, because I take notes after every place I go to remember. And especially when you're looking at the video, there was times in any – I had people say, I mean, you were like, you were about to freak out.

And I was because, number one, I was confused. Number two, I could not find what I was looking for. Number three, everything looked different. And once I saw the thing, go up around the corner, up the little slot canyon, and it was not a big foot, but it was black. Yeah, there was some, it was almost, like you said, very fearful. And I had to be very careful coming out because it was in the middle of the summer. I had to watch out for snakes, watch out for the deadfall.

But I do remember it was just like, God, it was very scary, very scary, you know. Yeah, well, I'll have to have you back. You'll have to give us updates. Jonathan Odom, O-D-O-M, check him out. on YouTube, subscribe to his channel. You can find a lot of his videos. I try and post him to the blog, too, as well. Jonathan, it was an honor having you on the show.

Man, thank you. It's an honor. Keep doing what you do, and you do a great job. And thank you for having me own. I appreciate it. Thanks again, Jonathan. If you get a chance to check out Jonathan's YouTube channel, run over there and subscribe.

Jonathan Odom, O-D-O-M. He's definitely got some cool videos on there. very interesting videos. And the one thing I like about Jonathan is he's got a lot of balls. If he sees something weird or strange or experiences something strange, he'll tell you about it. He doesn't sugarcoat it. And I like that about him. I like his approach.

And you know, a lot of these investigators, researchers, I guess we'll call him investigators. I know I sound grumpy tonight. I'm really not. But a lot of these investigators, they will run into weird things. out there in the woods and they won't talk about it. Privately they'll talk about it, but publicly they won't. And the shimmer he was talking about, I could have sworn Bob Garrett talked about that. I'm sure you guys probably know better than ideal.

I'll have to call Bob and see. I want to say it was a gold miner's encounter. He was talking about that. Very interesting stuff. Again, Jonathan Odom, thank you so much for coming on. It was an honor having you on. And I'll have to have that guy back. I know he's definitely got more stories and more things to tell us.

but because of time, you know, it was nice having you on, Jonathan. Thank you again. Let's jump to Thomas Seawood up there in Washington State. Thomas, thanks for coming on the show, man. Appreciate you being here. How are you tonight? Galacostla, good to hear from you again. I'm doing good.

Yeah, it's good to hear from you again, too. It's definitely good to hear from you. I hope you're staying warm up there in Washington up north. Yeah, all this more. I head further north, go back to Vancouver Island. But what are we doing here sitting at our houses in front of computers? We've got a beautiful one foot low tide started last night all the way through until next Saturday. Full moon out tonight when I went and had a cigarette.

We should be on the beaches looking for the big fellas. They'd be out hunting the shellfish and the cockles for sure this week. Yeah. Well, I'm glad that he came back to the show. For people, if they want to check out Tom's website, it's hamumuadventures.com. and Tom's going to be doing a lot of taking tourists out, looking for Sasquatch, going out on the boats. It's definitely good times. Hamumuadventures.com.

And I know, Tom, I wanted to invite you back to the show. It went with something I've been thinking about. And regarding, sometimes I hear these habituators and people who have these things on their property, and they'll leave them out, chocolate bars, they'll leave them out, donuts, all sorts of things. and I cringe anyway on feeding these things, but I always think, you know, what is it you're doing to the animal when you're leaving them chocolate bars and donuts?

But you were talking about smallpox. Do you want to go into that? Yeah, it was a few years back when I was out in the bush, you know, like I said before, I didn't have TV out there, so the wind was up and there was no tourists around. I had to find something to keep me occupied, so I was always just poking around,

looking at things and taking it on a First Nations, perspective from the world that I grew up all my life in and knowing that the quack-wock-y-walk nation, northern Vancouver Island region, in 19, they'd estimated 35,000 to 40,000 quack-wock-y-walk when contact first happened on the west coast. In the 1921 era, when they were doing a census of the native people throughout coastal British Columbia, the quack-walky walk, they had a hard time I'm trying to find 1,200 remaining. Smallpox, namely, but also influenza, tuberculosis, veneral disease. They had swept through our nation since contact,

and well over 95% of our people had vanished from the diseases. And, you know, it's not just the quack-wock-wock-you-wock. You know, you look at the Haida from Queen Charlotte Islands. It used to be called. They refer to it as Haida-Guai now, its rightful name. You know, they were over 90, 95% decimated by smallpox. And when you look at that on a social level, I'm so proud being a quack-walky walk because not only did these diseases just decimate our population, eradicating societies and people with knowledge that never had a chance to pass it on to the younger generations, you know, that takes a huge impact on your culture, your heritage, society as a whole, how it's made up of with this tier structure. and then all of a sudden you had the unjust colonial-based laws such as the banning of the potlatch era that forbid our people to celebrate our way of life known as potlatch.

And then they created these cinderblot incinerators called residential schools, 181 of them throughout Canada that were to conform the native children into dominion of Canada colonial law abiding, god-fearing people. Well, they were nothing more than residential schools or nothing more than incinerators, my opinion, to eradicate a people's culture and heritage. So the diseases and the unjust laws of the era, you look at 1921 when only 1,200 Kwokwak Uwak remained. And yet from that small number we have grown to well over 12,000, I think it is, yet of all the coastal first nations, we have one of the most intact and most complex structures. cultures based upon the different societies we have, the potlatch tying it all together. So I'm proud of that fact. But looking at the diseases as a whole,

you know, we have archaeological remains called middens, abandoned native villages, that when I went to the elders and still do and asked them, you know, what was that? Oh, that was a small village. And apparently I got hit by smallpox. And then when I was out there

and sea kayaks are staying there and they're eroding the midden structure, the black soil which is made up of the organic material broken down from my ancestors living there seasonally and the shell and bone remains of their food discarded.

You'd see these high-grade hammerstones and mortars and pestles and spearheads, copper items that showed that it was around that time of contact, even some of them, with glass beads.

And, you know, you don't just leave your tools. These people in these villages were decimated by smallpox. And you hear the stories where they were piling the dead bodies up like cordwood on the islets that were burial islets and that it got so bad that they were just throwing them in the water. And, you know, it's not just the Kwokwokwak, you walk. It's other coastal First Nations that I've heard the stories and read it in the different ships journals and logs and things and my research efforts through the years.

So you can just imagine what it was like when the smallpox epidemic came. And then I started thinking about it. And I started thinking, you know, all the reading I've done as a kid. And, you know, when I was a young boy, I was a pudgy Indian with black frame glasses. And my cousins used to call me Dilton Doyle because I was like that guy in the Archie comic books. I always had my head in the book. I was always trying to learn something. And I remember them, you know, when I was reading and I was thinking about all these

diseases and then when I got a little older as a teenager and, you know, I started hearing the stories about Junachah, the wild woman in the woods. And I'm thinking, hey, it's kind of like our Sasquatch, I think. So I started reading the books by Green and instant reports like the Patterson Gimlin incident and others. And I remember reading these things. And I'm thinking, you know, you look at Lewis and Clark going across the continent for the Americans and coming down the Columbia River and reporting, seeing something that wasn't human, that was large, bipedal, covered in hair. You have other reports from explorers and voyagers in Canada and Hudson's Bay Trade Post officials,

and the list goes on. And, you know, even had a train in the Canadian Pacific Railway see a Jacko, a passed-out Sasquatch on the railway tracks by Yale and the Fraser Canyon that they picked up, apparently, and captured and died a disease going over to Europe and to be shown in all these different things like Barnum and Bailey circuses, I guess. I was thinking about it going, you know, Jacko died from disease because all of a sudden he interacted with Don indigenous people. He interacted with railway workers and then in the cities being looked at by the people.

And then all of a sudden going across the ocean apparently to Europe and he dies of the disease. Well, that tells me that the Sasquatch Bigfoot possibly was susceptible to the European, Asian-based diseases, as were the indigenous people across Turtle Island. And if we look at Turtle Island, Mexico, Canada, United States, we know that 300 to 500 million indigenous people vanished due to diseases. One of them mainly being smallpox. So then I look at all these reports about there's not very many people coming across what would be. than what would be United States and Canada. Yet the reports are, you know, most of them have something to say about these bush apes, mountain apes, mountain grillas, mountain devils. And then all of a sudden you get into the later part of the 1800s after the major smallpox epidemics.

And you don't see many reports. And then the coastal British Columbia through the late 1800s into when I was a young man, our child in the late 60s, we had Indian villages that were inhabited. People living in them all through my traditional territories that brought an archipelago, and it's indicative of coastal British Columbia. You had homesteaders out there with their 40-acre parcels. You had Jippo Loggers out there with their floating community and camps moving about harvesting timber right from the saltwater shorelines.

So we had a lot of people out in the territories, even in a place called Lock Barrel Inlet. They had a carousel for the trains to turn around, and it was a community. And it had a hospital and all these things. Now it's just all growth, overgrown, just like a Mayan city. It's been taken over by the rainforest. And then we see in my region that I'm looking into, you see a increase in the amount of sighting reports. Is it because there's more people out there?

No, I don't think so. They're really out there in the summertime, the mariners on their yachts. the sea kayakers and sailboaters. But year round throughout the late 1800s to their mid-60s, there was people out there year-round, yet the sighting reports aren't that high. There's not much records of them. But now in these modern times,

we're starting to see an increase from the clam diggers, the loggers that are out in some of these semi-isolated places, even some of the natives that are living out there, and even the sea-cajackers and the yotters in the summertime are reporting them. So we're seeing an increase in sighting, but it's what I'm magic of the internet, the modern day smoke signal. I'm almost seeing that it's happening across Turtle Island. There's a big increase. We know of the skunkie.

We know of all these different states that have, looks to me like an increase in sightings. Canada as well, I lived in the Northwest Territories for a year north of the 60th parallel on the edge of the Arctic. And they set it up there. there's an increase in sightings. And of course, if we look at us as humans, you know, look, like I say to Peggy, as we drive around Kent Washington and Seattle, I just look at her and shake my head and gridlock and go, Peggy, you're too many damn people here. Some of these people got to move away.

You can't travel no more. Yeah. You know, and that's like that across from what I'm here and it's like that all over Turtle Island. So there's definitely a drastic increase in the amount of humans. I think that's also showing us with a. citing reports, there's a possible increase in Sasquatches. We're here in just in the last five, six, seven years. I know I'm seeing more reports and blob squashes on the internet about them having babies.

There's one little baby that you see all blob squatchy in a tree with his mother peeking around, apparently. You see the one that someone took where there's apples in their front yard. They set up a camera. Some people are calling an owl taking off or landing. I remember when Dr. John Bindernagle, when that picture first came out, and it wasn't even released to the public yet. And he called me and I went to Campbell River or to Courtney in Vancouver Island where he lives.

And he goes, Tom, I've got to show you something. He was, what do you think? And I looked at that black and white photo. And I looked up at him. I said, that's a Joachah. That's a wild woman of the woods. She's got a baby under her left arm. Look, you can see its little hand hanging on.

to her bicep. I bet you anything that's baby with it. So hopefully there is a population increase in Sasquatch Bigfoot throughout Turtle Island. But smallpox, you know, I'm starting to research more and more and have been for the last couple years because I think that's what decimated the Sasquatch populations was smallpox. And I had one report years ago. I was just the young teenager and I remember we're sitting on a commercial sane boat, salmon fish boat, and we're all just shooting the BS and came up talking about Jonachah, wild woman in the woods. And of course, they were just interested, the older guys were just interested in scaring the bejesus out of me. And I was listening to way and, you know, being Dalton Doyle, I was telling me 10,000 questions.

That's when I said, what about when our people got wiped out by smallpox? What happened to the Joonoha? They died too? that member that crewman looked at me he was interesting interesting he goes i remember when i was a little boy i remember hearing stories about them being smallpox too that's all he said and then today just out of the blue i was made a phone call to one of the archipelagos which is a group of islands on the British Columbia Coast. At this time, I don't want to divulge which won. I got a lot of research I want to do first. But we're just shooting the BS talking and we got around to talking about

their stories, the stories from up in that region of the Sasquatch Bigfoot. And I mentioned, I said, well, you guys were wiped out pretty hard too with smallpox. You ever hear any stories about the big fella getting smallpox? And he goes, yeah, you know what? I heard. heard this few times now the story about one of the villages when the people were down with the smallpox people were dying they're in bad bad shape big fella family came in and they were carrying their younger ones all diseased up and they were dragging the other adults that were sick and they went to the humans and he goes I don't know if they're talking them or not but they were basically got into the edge of the village and they're showing like they needed help they were all pocked up

and the humans, they couldn't do anything. They showed them their people all pocked up and dying as well. And apparently that family just turned around and walked back in the bush. And then he said, the elders now that know those stories and saw the animal when they're younger up here, they're gone too now. They've passed on. It's unfortunate.

I should ask them more questions. He goes, but they used to say that they're extinct up here because the smallpox took them away. way. He goes, but there's others. They say they're still around. And I've heard a lot of stories up here about them being around, but people know that they're really afraid to being around us. They don't want to be near us. They see us. They just take off. And that's a pattern I'm starting to see established by the questions I'm asking. And now with the modern day smoke signal, Facebook and social media and the internet as a whole, I'm now reaching out. I just talk to

through private message, I just talked to a young man up in Alaska. And boy, you've got beautiful pictures in the tundra hunting and everything. We're all bushman like me. But he's got to talks to the native people about the stories up there. So I'm going to reach out to more of my fellow aboriginals and non-Aboriginals, of course. You know, we're all united here on Turtle Island. And I want to start asking that question. Do you have any stories or hear of any stories about disease and smallpox that might have

affected the Sasquatch big as well. I'd be real curious to see what you find out on that because you wouldn't think unless they're really close to us in the gene pool. I mean, really close to us, that smallpox wouldn't affect them. Now, I'm almost kind of curious if smallpox affect chimpanzees or apes or, because you know a lot of the same diseases that we get affected by primates, it doesn't bother them one bit. But if they're really close to us in the gene pool, I can definitely see how that would wipe them out. The other thing, too, would be interesting to find out is were the reports dying

because no one was around? Everyone was dying. And so the reports, the Sasquatch went way down, or was it because they were being affected by smallpox? And so it'd be interesting to find out. I'd love to, as you research this further, I'd love to see what you come across. I have had, I've talked to a few Native Americans that say they can get affected by our diseases, but no one's ever really gone into it. No one's ever really said this or that, you know what I mean? But I have spoken to some Native Americans here in the States that say they absolutely can be affected by the same diseases we get affected by. Oh yeah, like, you know, you and I and, you know, a bunch of the other people that were affiliated with the enthusiast researcher, you know,

especially the guys that are on social media, me included now, thanks to you, Wes. But anyway, we can only go so far. We're the scouts. We're the point men, point woman. You know, we can only go so far. And I don't think that we can tread any further out on the ice because we don't have that knowledge. You know, we're not the ologist. It's up to those doctors, theologists to lead us further onto that ice, so to speak.

So we don't fall through by twisting things around and end up BS and not. saying the right things. You know, we look at today, for example, you know, I was sitting there scratching my head, pondering away, having my cigarette outside in my Aboriginal moments. I'm like, man, I got to figure this out. And I'm like, hey, I know. So I run inside. And the magic of the internet, I pulled up Jeff Meldrum's profile and sent him a private message. And, you know, right away said something. And I said, no, no, no, no. I said, I need your expertise and knowledge on some questions I have. I said, I can only go so far. I said, I'm a PhD and Bushman, I said, but when it comes to the sciences stuff, I said, that's where you got to

take over. I just need to get some direction if I'm going the right way. And right away, just opened up. And now I'm going to hook up with them, hopefully in the new year here, like early in the new year. And I'm basically just going to be Tommy 10,000 questions and fire away at him and have this, you know, guy with years of schooling, you know, make sure that I stay on the right path and ask the right questions and you know that's that's what we need to do is enthusiasts researchers you know we can only go so far on that ice and can't go too far we have to work cooperate and work with everyone yeah it's interesting smallpox i just looked it up affects only humans no animals or insects can be affected by it but you know if they're close to us in the gene pool i mean really close to us in the

gene pool, which seems to make a lot of sense that they are. I could see how it might affect them. Well, even if we're not that close on the gene pool, you know, here on coastal British Columbia, we had seals and sea lions, I guess they call them penipeds or something. They were getting sick a few years back. And I remember, we were warned if you see them, don't go near them. That disease they have can be transferred to humans. And then you hear about bird flus, you know, well, there is a.

a good example of how genetically not close we are, because I sure as heck don't have no feathers under my armpits. You know, that's, you know, it's, you got those ologists that's made those statements that there's no way that it can be transferred to so and so. But you got to remember, they're just,

it's just their theory, you know. They don't have any good conclusive proof on it. They said they eradicated smallpox in 1959, yet it's been showing up every now and again. Now it's even, when I was doing my research, there's even global projections on a terrorist act by using smallpox, you know, and how, what it looks like in day one, two, three, four by time against a day 10, Tom Seward being an Indian, he's dead, I'll tell you that, you know. So it's smallpox is, you know, I don't think

we should overlook it at the same time. I don't think we should take it too lightly and get too bogged down on that, oh, I don't think they're genetically close. Hey, they got two legs, two arms, 10 toes, 10 fingers. We know that. We've got the prints and cast to prove it. And then we got the reciting reports. They're pretty darn close to a human. And, you know, I know if I seen a Sasquatch through my spotting scope and I've seen

that had a bunch of pox, well, you know, the question is, do I go in and get a better picture so that I can get conclusive proof? Hell no. You know, that's native people. We're highly susceptible to tuberculosis even to this day. and I know darn well I'm highly susceptible to smallpox, even though I've been immunized for it, you know, but there's no way I'm going to go get a closer shot

if I see a sick animal like a Sasquatch with smallpox. You know, I mean, some people might put on the comments on this, you know, oh, that's far-fetched to that. When you're a Bushman and you're out there, chances to see an animal and getting really close to them is an animal that's injured or sick. So Bush rule kicks, and that out-trumps any concrete opinion. So that's one thing, you know,

know, I'm not saying I'm going to go out there looking for smallpox saskatches because I believe the epidemic's over. And now the population is growing. But going back to the diseases on them, you know, I don't think we have to, you know, we have to look, I guess the best way to put us, know your history so you're never destined to repeat its failures. That being said, 300 to 500 million indigenous people in throat, the Americas were wiped out from diseases. Is there a chance Sasquatch can catch something from us? I believe so.

And I'm going to hopefully play around with, what do you call it, theory or a thesis or whatever. I'm going to play around with that by doing interviews and putting some things down to text here, as I always do. But remember when I was telling you that podcast, when we had garlic being taken, you know, off the spray. on the hanging off of nails so we thought animals taking it so we put it under a clear glass cup lo and behold our garlic was missing again the cup was upside down the next day and then you know

we knew who was taking it it was the big fella that was coming into the camp then i you know put my foot down to the crew you know one of my crew had uh you know he rugged life grew up in the streets kind of thing and he had hepatitis and you know we took precautions he had his own dishes, he had his own wash area, he didn't do any of the cooking. You know, so, you know, even in the modern day, you know, it's acceptable. Hey, you got a disease. We're not going to ostracize you and, you know, push you in a canoe and push you away from our village here.

You're going to work with us, live with us. We're just going to work with you so that we don't get it. So that's when I, all of a sudden, I thought, hey, you guys, I said, you know, those people always putting out in them candy bars and peanut butter and not for the big fellas. I said, you know what, we shouldn't do that. I said, you know, number one, we're habituating. animal. Last thing we want is a pissed off Sasquatch and his family coming down. You're throwing

sticks and rocks at us because we ran out of garlic and it's blowing 45 and we can't get no more because we can't get out in a speedboat. I said, we don't want that. Next point, I said, you know, we know about smallpox and the diseases. What did there are people, you know? Look at a few years ago that SARS came through 2003. I built my brand new tour boat at the time and I got it. I was sick for almost two and a half months. I had one foot in the grave and the other and hanging on, standing on a banana peel. I was ready to slip in the six foot hole for good. I was so sick. I said, and you got hepatitis. I said, we got us always show respect to the big fellas. I said, we can't be getting them sick, so no more garlic out and try to keep all the food in the house now. I said,

we can't take that chance. And that was it. Bush rule one-on-one kicks in, you know, the rules of it said. That's the way it's going to be. And, you know, I'm not saying I'm against what people are doing with. What do you call that word when they go give stuff, gifting? Yeah, gifting. Yeah, I'm not saying I'm against it. I'm just personally, I wouldn't do it because of that disease possibility to transfer. Yeah, and you're right.

I mean, there's a lot of diseases that get transferred to animals. I'm sitting here thinking, well, rabies can be transferred from a dog to us. And so you can transfer diseases back and forth. And so, you know, the older I get, and you probably feel the same way, Tom. The older I get, the more I realize as I look around at the world around me, I realize no one's smarter than I am. I mean, you have your occasional people that are smarter than you are, but generally speaking, no one's really smarter than you are.

And, you know, you never know. It could be wiping them out. You know, only a fool would say, well, that's a bogus theory. There's nothing to it. There might be something to that. You might be right. It makes you wonder about, like, diabetes, you know, if you're feeding Sasquatch donuts every day and you're gifting with them donuts and chocolate bars and everything else. Maybe they could

develop these different diseases. I wish there was a witness I had on one time. I don't think he actually came on the show. It was a hunter and he was talking about hearing coughing out in the woods and he thought it was another hunter. And what he said he saw was a huge ape. But he heard coughing. And I always thought that was a real weird, strange report because I'd never heard anyone say that before. But he heard this constant coughing, almost like you hear someone with cold or the flu, how they'll cough constantly. That's what this guy was hearing. And moments after hearing that, he saw what he described as a gorilla walking out of the woods on two legs and walking off into the bush.

And I always, that one reporter always stuck with me. And I never knew really what to make of that. The other thing, too, you're talking about your village being wiped out. You know, if your village was wiped out, let's say most of the First Nation people were wiped out from smallpox, you would think the Sasquatch population would double or triple now that all the humans are gone. They have free reign of everything. So you think there'd be a population explosion and there wasn't. So it makes you wonder, maybe there is something to it. It's definitely an interesting theory to look into, that's for sure.

Well, like two months ago, we had two grizzly bear siblings show up in Alert Bay, Corman Island, you know, connected to Vancouver Island with a ferry, you know, 35-minute ride. You know, basically, as far as I'm concerned, it is part of Vancouver Island. It's so close. But two grizzly bears show up. Everyone's like, what the heck? What the heck? Two bears. Well, when I used to be a grizzly bear and black bear hunting guide, 1997, that was the tail end of the crash of the salmon during that crash site.

We had on coastal British Columbia, South Coast. And I watched cannibalism take place. A big grizzly bear hunted down a smaller grizzly bear trying to chase what few salmon were in this riffle. When that big grizzly bear came over the sand dunes in that river, he wasn't interested in a half-dozen fish that little grizzly bear was after. He was after that young pup. And I watched him stalk in like a cat pounce off that bank when he had the optimum chance. and he killed that young guy and threw him over his shoulder and carried him in the bush

and probably ate him while he did eat him but you know that's bush and when i saw that exodus from the mainland on the northeastern side of the broughtan archipelago from kinkum inlet um thompson sound inlet bond sound inlet uh what do you call it um jury inlet area and Lockborough, you started seeing this westward migration of grizzly bears, and you'd see them on the islands. And then all of a sudden in 2009, 2001, there was a grizzly bear shot in Port Hardy on Vancouver Island. First one recorded ever shot on Vancouver Island. A year later, I helped put one down in Sayward, North Central, Eastern Vancouver Island.

we heard other stories of grizzly bears on Vancouver Island and you know there's still reports of them there so it showed a western migration when people asked me well how come this is happening now and back in the day and I said well back in the day you got to remember that in the late 200s 1920 30s period there were very few quack-wock you walk out there we'd been decimated by the diseases but any grizzly bear we did see out there we would harvest because it was food. It was used for ceremonial and social uses, meaning the bones were used for amulets to draw out the diseases someone might have in your family or a friend. And then, of course, the fur was used for the grizzly bear dances and attributed to one of our societies.

The claws, of course, even to this day, are still highly sought after. But there's hardly humans, as you stated. And I'm agreeing. There was no quack-walk-y-wawk out there. But there was all these homesteaders. There was all these loggers. And what do loggers do up until late 1980s when they saw a grizzly bear or black bear close to their camps? They shot them. And dug a hole, threw them in there, and that was it. And so you had a natural barrier to stop that western migration of the grizzly bears. So what you just stated about, Well, the humans disappeared. Shouldn't the Sasquatch population explode? Well, yeah, that's Bush Rule 101.

It goes back to Bush Code. That's the way it's chiseled in stone and thou shall happen that way. But it didn't. And that's what I'm saying. There was no population explosion in the late 1800s to the mid-1900s that we're hearing about in the reports. So that correlates to, was there a possibility that they too were decimated by the diseases? I think so. And now that we're possibly seeing an increase in Sasquatch numbers,

maybe we're going to start to see that Westward migration take place or is taking place right now, because I've noticed that in the Western Proton Archipelago in the last 20 years, and maybe we're going to start seeing them more and more of Vancouver Island, which seems to be some of the reports, because we're getting a lot more reports from the west side of Vancouver Island in the last 10 years than we've had in any other period. in the last hundred. You definitely might be on to something there.

I've never thought of that. I've never really given it too much thought. Even as you and I were talking, I was thinking about the donuts and all the other stuff, all the crap people claim they leave for these things. It was, I think it was Bear. I don't know if you know Bear, Jim King.

He was talking about how you don't leave him that stuff because it can make him sick. It can, and I don't think a lot of people think like that. But your smallpox theory, I definitely think there's something to it, Tom. I think you might be on to something, the more I listen to it. It'd be interesting.

I wonder if there's any First Nation elders around that could shed some insight on it. I'm going to see one day after tomorrow. That's one of the reasons I'm heading to Vancouver Island, he's actually phoned my father and called me in. And under our Kwokwock-Walky Walk law, when I get called in this talk to hear from this man, I have to do it, hell or high water. So that's where I'll be Thursday morning. I'll be sitting with him, and I imagine he has something to ask me or want of me.

And then afterwards, it's going to be telling me 10,000 questions and smallpox and diseases to sit juno. That's going to be what's on the table that morning. Well, you'll have to come back and give us an update. Tell us what you found out. I'd love to hear what you find out on this. Well, you got the best marks in telegraph from what I'm seeing, you know. What do you get me on is this podcast, you know, after Operation C, You know, you've just created a supernova and I thank you so much for it, you know, for people wanting to reach out to me and get more insight into the First Nations part and my experience has been out in Bush for so long.

You know, I went, like I told you on last podcast, and I went to Sasquatch Island and checked on that group. My friend started and had that button that said, this group, he's an administrator, this administrator, I went and clicked it. Lo and behold, Sasquatch Island in the last eight days has gone from 42 members in the group to close to 800 by tomorrow of crack 800. And what I'm doing on Sasquatch Island, and hopefully everyone joins that group is I'm just, I'm not focusing on to what I call the generic. The stuff that's just been beaten like a dead dog, you know, all the same old stories, same old speculations and that. I'm just coming out with the First Nation stuff based upon Vancouver. Hoover Island, because the north part is my traditional territory so I can speak on that, but it's indicative of all of the Pacific Northwest coastal region from bottom end of Washington

State, Northern Oregon, all the way up to Southeast Alaska. So I'm putting things on there like yesterday, every morning I get up and I put a post and it was on the high concentrations of salmon in the streams and all this protein source and pitchers, and people were overwhelmed that aren't from the Pacific Northwest. West that, you know, here is a river that, like, your first sentence and says, you know, it's, you know, it's not, you know, it's, you can literally walk across their backs from bank to bank. They're that thick.

And then I showed the pictures and gave some reports on it. This morning was Ooligan, the candlefish. Tomorrow, if I won't have time to post, but maybe tomorrow night, I'll post on seaweed and other kelp species that are found on Pacific Northwest. But people on Sasquot that go to Sasquatch Island. and they're starting to see that it's, wow, this is Pacific Northwest. This is Sasquatch Haven. This is, you know, they've got so much protein, you know,

and if you look at humans, compare it to humans, once you get east into the Rocky Mountains, coastal mountains and eastwards throughout United States and America, the Indians, native peoples that lived out there were hunter-gatherers. They were always trying to get enough food to live, movement, to get more food out here. The Pacific Northwest, Northern Oregon, Washington State, British Columbia, Southeast Alaska. You know, there's a reason why we're built like Volkswagen's. We're short and well-rounded there at our wheel wells. You know, we're chubby buggers most of us because we have so much food.

This is like our people say, He'lladi, the land of plenty. And that's one of the reasons why I'm trying to get words out, you know, especially with you, that, you know, hopefully more people will come to this area. You know, I need a hand out there. It's big turf out there. And, you know, hopefully we can get some. conclusive proof and and you know smallpox is something that we really have to think about do we gift i'm not going to allow it with any one of the people i bring out into the bush no gifting

you know we use trip cameras with maybe a some cockles or something but it's not gifting it's bait so it's a difference between gifting and bait i know i'll be hearing a lot of grief on that one but no not as much as you would think because uh you know as far as the show goes i'm i'm completely against it. And not that every listener is completely against it, but I'm completely against. I'm with you 100% on that. I think it's a bad idea. Now, if you want to bait him to get a picture, that's a different story. I even had a guy on one time that he would go out and gift him every time. He'd always bring food every single time. Well, the one time he didn't bring food, he almost lost his life. Wow.

And the guy was telling me how there's such general creatures and they, you know, they'll never hurt you, they'll never harm you. And the one time he went into the area and he was trying to set up cameras. He didn't bring any food with him. He came close to losing his life. So I'm with you 100% on that. And it's an honor to have you on Tom. I always enjoy talking to you. I always enjoy your theories and your knowledge on the subject. You know, a lot of these researchers, I think it's pretty well known. I don't get along with too many researchers in this field. Not that I don't get along with, but a lot of them drive me nuts. I hate the, I've been doing this for 40 years and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then you ask him, well, tell me five things.

interesting about Sasquatch that no one knows. And they got nothing. They can't tell you two things that are interesting that you haven't heard from a witness on the show or, but, you know, that's why I like you, you because you really look outside of the box and all the Native American stories. And I've learned so much just in the last week. I've spoken to a few natives in the southwest that went into detail about the dog man. And the more they told me, the more I wished I wouldn't have asked the question. I guess it's one of those things to where it's, you know, be careful what you ask because you might just get the answer to it. Yeah. But I always enjoy having you on. And for people out there, if they look up Sasquatch Island that Tom is referencing,

it's a Facebook group. I like it. Tom posts a lot of cool stuff in there. I know she did post the salmon thing. I was just checking that out about three hours ago. The Sasquatch Island, you can check out Tom on Facebook under Thomas Seawood, S-E-W-I-D. And if you get a chance to check out as hamumu-moo-adventures.com. It's H-A-M-O-O-M-O-O-O-A-A-Ventures.com. Tom, thanks for coming on, as always. It's an honor. I always enjoy talking with you.

Thank you very much. I'm going to Sasquatch Island tomorrow until we talk again, Wes, and everyone out there, Halakalasla. Go in peace. Thank you very much. You too, my friend. Thanks, Tom. And that's it for tonight, everyone.

Remember, if you've had an encounter, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. And if you get a chance to check out Sasquatch Chronicles.com, get additional shows. If you're looking for a gift under the shop, there are some cool items, some cool Sasquatch gear. Check it out if you get a chance. Have a great night, everyone. I will see you guys next time.

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