Sasquatch Chronicles - SC EP:292 Swaying from side to side watching me

Episode Date: January 22, 2017

Tonight, I will be speaking to Dave who has been hunting his whole life. He will be sharing some of his encounters, including one when he was inspecting a flooded farm in Oklahoma. Dave writes, "As I was walking over this small hill I came up on two creatures. One of the creatures appeared to be female and she was digging up and eating crawdads, the other creature just stood there swaying from side to side watching me as I watched it……" Dave goes on to say "I have traveled and worked in most states and I have seen their tracks, this was not the only time I have run into these things. I would be happy to talk about some of these things I have seen and heard while working in many different states."

Black thing go from left to right, and I thought, I'm going to die out here and no one's ever going to know. I couldn't believe what my eyeballs was showing me. I'll never forget how evil the eyes were. It was horrible. I mean, I've never seen nothing that evil. It ran towards me at a rate that I can't even explain, turned and stared at me. And this look of, I just want to kill you. I want to say it was human, but it wasn't.

He was yelling out me to grab a gun, grab a gun. I was like, for what? He said, just grab a gun. And there's footprints all the way to the door of my house. It had went inside my garage all the way to the door. 911, what are you reporting? Sure. Get somebody out here. What's going on now, sir?

That son of a bitch is about six foot, nine, I don't know. Do you see him now, sir? Yes, I'm looking right at him. Uh-uh. You're listening to Sasquatch Chronicles. Check us out online at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. If you've had an encounter, email me. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com.

Welcome to the show, everyone. Thanks for being here tonight. Got a great show planned for you. Going to be bringing Dave on. And Dave had some very, very interesting encounters. We'll kind of leave out too many details about his employment, more or less for his own anonymity. But his encounters are fascinating.

He would go out and inspect farms that had been flooded, and he'd come across these creatures. When I spoke to Dave last night, he talked about all the hunting trips he'd been on, tracks he'd come across, sounds he heard. Even one time, I believe, he was out hunting, and he actually came across a group of these creatures down this hillside. And it's interesting to hear their behavior.

behavior. If you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. I'd love to talk to you about your encounter, what you've seen, what you've heard, just talk about your experiences. Again, it's Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. If you get a chance to check out the website, Sasquatch Chronicles.com. You can click on the shop there at the top. And you can, lots of stuff in the store, lots of different items, either for yourself or for a loved one. Anyone who's into Bigfoot, cool stuff, hope you get a chance to check it out. If you're listening to this on iTunes or Stitcher, if you can, leave us a review.

Tell me what you think of the show. I do go through and read those from time to time and might start doing shoutouts from those. So if you're on iTunes, Stitcher, please subscribe, leave me a comment, let me know what you think about the show. Let's jump into it tonight. I want to welcome Dave to the show. Dave, thanks for coming on, man. Appreciate you being here. You bet. And if you would, kind of start from the beginning. I know back in the mid-80s, you had a very interesting encounter. For the audience, would you start from the beginning and talk about what you were out doing and what you ran into?

Sure. I was guiding hunters at the time. We had a ranch in the Rio Grande Valley of Colorado. In September, before my hunters came up in October, we had a combined early season that year of deer and elk. I had gone up doing some scouting. I was going to hunt my area in the Rio Grande on central Rio Grande County. The San Juan Mountains, I had an allotment for there for my hunters, but I also knew there had been a lot of hunting pressure, and I'd talked to some friends that were guiding.

knew there'd be a lot there for the second seasons, which were a split deer in elk season. So I had gone over into the Cuyahos County at the edge of the Wymanooch Wilderness Area. That's extremely high, bald country. It's got a lot of timber, but it runs up about 9,500 feet, anywhere from 9,000 to 9,500 feet for an extended period. It's kind of a rolling area. It's got some thinner timber. I was scouting up there. Didn't take a horse, just took my Jeep,

and was going to do some walking and just some scouting around. I knew that even though there's hunters that have allotments for that area, guides that have allotments to take hunters in that area, there weren't enough to cover the entire area, and I thought I could slip in there in the latter season when I didn't have hunters and maybe get a lot of, elk. That area is known for boogers, or we call them boogers. I'm from Oklahoma, so we call them boogers

in the way I grew up. Actually, I really didn't realize they were Bigfoot. We grew up calling them Chicken Man because of what happened in El Reno. Always thought Bigfoot was what they had in the Pacific Northwest. But my grandpa had told me always about boogers, and so I kind of figured that these things were boogers, and that's the name we kind of put on them after we'd been talking about chicken man he said no those are burgers so tell you a little about about that in a little bit but uh i was up on the kenye house uh it's again a rolling area about 9000 feet where i was at and uh thinner timber but lodgepole pine and saw some uh tree

breaks not a lot of aspen there but they were these were smaller pines uh there's no way in the world, it couldn't have been anything but a bugger with those tree breaks because those are, those were young lodgepole pines. They were laid up against the larger lodge pines, and I did see two, two different pushovers, which is a major deal up there. Those are lodgepole pines. These were about, trees were about 10 inch diameter. A log from those trees, if you cut them, an 18-inch log, it weighed about 75 pounds. Those are lodgepole pines at high elevation. So there's nothing, you couldn't have run those over with a small bulldozer.

Saw a couple of knockovers. They weren't blowdowns. They were knockovers. And saw some tree breaks and was looking around, ran across a few tracks, but from a distance, after I'd walked about, oh, an hour and a half, two hours, got to a more elevated area, and sat down on some boulders, kind of a little alco area,

and sat down in there and then climbed up on top and was glassing with my binoculars and saw a troop. I would say about eight individuals, and they had some young with them, but they weren't real young. They were walking, and probably the younger ones were probably five foot tall. The rest of them, I would think were talking. taller than that, maybe double that height. A couple of them seemed to be around 10 foot tall.

The rest of them looked to be seven to eight. And they were, two of them were in a position where they would maybe ambush something. And the others broke away, and I watched them for about a half an hour. And the others broke away like they were going to try to run up behind something and push them through a choke point, ambush point. I watched that for a while. By the time that they had all disappeared behind the rocks, I stuck around for another 10 minutes and finally gave it up.

I didn't want to lose the light. But there's definitely a population of Bigfoot there. They get heavy snows there, so we figure they came out of the, I had a guy with me. We figured they came out of the Wymanich Wilderness area, which is pretty much straight up and down. That's the headwaters for the San Juan and the Rio Grande River

and about a half a dozen creeks and a couple other rivers. Runs all the way over almost to the Utah border. Huge, huge massive areas. It's probably the biggest wilderness area in the United States. My cousin had hunted in there, and he'd had some experience around them also. I'm curious. When you saw these, did you know what you were looking at?

Did you think, oh, that's, those are... Well, yeah, by that time, there's nothing else they could have been. You know, I ran it through my mind, you know, hunters or one thing or another, but when I saw the young ones first, and then I saw one beside them that was three foot taller, and then I saw a couple that were a couple foot taller than her, there's just nothing else that could have been, and I was thinking mooters.

This was my first experience of actually seeing them. This was in 84. I'd seen lots of tracks and things before that and heard a lot of vocalizations that actually been run out of a couple places, but from stones being thrown, and screams and different things, but this is the first time I'd actually laid eyes on them. For the audience, can you describe what you saw?

Can you describe what they look like? They all look like Patty. I saw them from 100 yards and binoculars, and they all looked like that Patty type. They were big. They were boxy. You couldn't tell where their waist was. They were straight up and down.

And the two that I saw that I think, over 10 foot, they were monsters. They were probably, you know, I'm from a distance. I don't want to, I'd be conservative, but I'd say they were three and a half, four foot white. They were big. One of them got around the smaller one for a little bit, and I was able to judge, and my God, they were, they, they had to be three and a half, four foot wide.

One of them was, he had to be over four foot wide at the shoulders. And they were boxing. I mean, they didn't have a waist break. They went all the way down. They were what I saw on that video of Patty. But, of course, I'm looking through binoculars. So they were, a couple of them were, had some brown tent to them. Most of them were black.

And they were, they had the cone heads, huge, huge arms, just massive. And I was glad they were at that much distance from me because I wouldn't want to do I've dealt with them. The guy that was with me saw him too, he was using the rifle scope. He pretty much had a meltdown. So,

me, he didn't want to go back up there. Me, I, you know, I figured it's a big area and if they've got that much to eat, Colorado's got the largest elk herd in the world. And there's a lot of mule deer. So I figured

I figured they were, they were trying to, the mule deer later in the day will hold up right under the edge of a hill or bluff or whatever you got that's got a pinion, a buck will get in there with a couple of those at that time of year. And the way I figured it is they were going to try to jump some and get them to run in that direction. You know, they don't really bunch up until later in the year. So usually it's a buck and a couple of those that you'll run into.

we used to glass for them. Anywhere there was a, any kind of an edge, you'd look on the lee side of it, and you'd see bucks and doves, a buck and a couple of those. And so when you saw them, your impression was, is that they were hunting? I think that they were,

what I took to be females, I couldn't see breasts at that distance, but what I took to, the ones that seemed like they were in charge of the young ones, they were they got down and they like they were staying out of the way

and then I saw two of them that looked like they were seven or more foot tall get behind some rocks and it was a choke point there's no doubt about it and then the bigger ones

I saw them at least one of the bigger ones stayed was in the choke point and two or three others had gone up and they disappeared in the woods. So I'm figuring they were going to run them back through there. That's interesting. You know, it's like when I did the show on the Siege of Phanavia, that's kind of how the brothers described it.

They would kind of push them down into a choke point and then ambush them. It's just curious that there was little ones and females around. I mean, I would imagine they all take place in hunting. You see a lot of primates that will show their young. ones how to hunt. Chimpanzees, for example, do that. They'll show their young how to hunt. And I talked about it on a past show.

I think it was gorillas that were taking apart poacher traps, and they'd always have young ones nearby, almost like they were showing them how to take apart the traps. So that's interesting. Did it worry you at all? I mean, God, I think I'd been a little worried. Well, we looked around behind us a bunch. I said, I told my friend, I said, you watch our back. it's the first time that I'd ever felt like

we needed to watch our back from something that wasn't human. There's, you know, we'd always watched our back because, you know, and I have a lot of Hispanic friends. A lot of my friends are Mexican. They were, when I lived in Colorado, a lot of my friends were Mexican. And the center of Colorado was pretty close

to where we lived and, you know, there's a lot of weed and a lot of, partying and a lot of stuff that the Anglos do, which is what I am. but there was a lot of action going in and out of center. And those hunters, you always had to watch because they'd have orange on, but just enough to spot each other.

And if they thought you were the Game Ranger, you'd have a hard time getting out of there. So you always kind of had to watch your back. And, you know, when there's a whole lot of people that are running around with guns in the woods, you always need to watch your back. and, you know, my dad, years before, had been hunting with his buddy, the deputy sheriff in Gunnison County, and he'd been on a blue-rohn horse, and, you know, a dark gray kind of tinted blue and dappled, and somebody blew the saddle horn off the horse while he was on the horse, or off the saddle while he was on the horse.

So a lot of guys, you just watch, you have to watch. your back. You never know when somebody's going to be up there from town. You never know if somebody's going to just shoot at movement. It becomes a habit. You know, it's kind of like shaking out your boots. I've lived in town for years now, and I still shake out my shoes and boots before I put them on. It's just, you develop a habit of knowing what's around you. It's the best way to stay safe. What did you go? Pacific Northwest, it's a little harder. It's a little more dense. You know, I've been up there. It's a little more dense. Colorado, you, you can usually sealways even though you're in timber.

By the way, the reason I think they had the kid that I think it was a family unit, you know, a troop, was because I don't think that this was their area. I think they moved in there from the Wyoming. I think they came in there to hunt.

I think that it was, it was a situation where they weren't on their way to a specific destination. They were just kind of moving through. Let me tell you why I know that. By the way, I didn't get to hunt there. By Halloween that year, the Wiamanooch had 10 foot of snow.

And the hunters had to be taken out by helicopters. They had to shoot their horses and abandon their camps. And they had to rescue. They had a big rescue operation, and they had to come in and haul them all up by helicopter. They had 10 foot of snow there, and Wolf Creek Pass, which is off to the northwest, it opened on Halloween, had free skiing.

Now, we got hit with an Indian summer, come November, but there was no getting back up in there. There's just no way. So I never did get to go up there and hunt. That was my one trip up there to go and look around. I've hiked in the wide manooch out of Durango, but never into, you know, I was in my Jeep. We've been gone high. There's roads that go up there, but when they get that amount of snow, even 67-degree weather

for, you know, a week is not going to make any difference with that. They had over 10 foot of snow come in in three or four days. Did the creatures vocalize at all when you were down there? I heard a hoop, but I could see they were talking to one another. I mean, one of them was nodding back to the other one. But no, we were too far away. I did hear a tree knock before I left. When I was walking back to the Jeep, I heard a tree knock, but that was, I didn't really realize at the time.

that's what it was. But I heard somebody hit something with an axe. As you were watching these things through a binocular, it appeared they were communicating and talking to each other? Well, yeah, the one was when they first got there and kind of settled out into what they were going to do and the females were going to go with the young ones and they kind of got behind some boulders that were a little ways back,

I saw them pointing with their fingers or their hands, you know, running their hands out in that direction. And, you know, I had a pretty good set of binoculars. I saw, I didn't see lips move, no. It appeared that they were communicating. If you and I had been up there, if you and I had been up there with some other guys and we were giving them directions on what to do,

it was kind of like what I'd see with people. I think that's fascinating. I think that's really interesting. And so what did you guys do next? You just left? We got back to the Jeep and went on, and then when we came back a little farther and got to the end of the road,

and we decided by then it was about 5.30, maybe six, and we decided if we were going to get out of there and get back to a main road before it was plumbed dark, we needed to get going. And so when we came back through that area, I didn't see, I didn't get out to look for him. Because, you know, my friend was spooked, and by then he'd spooked, him being spooked,

it kind of spooked me a little bit. When we went through that area, I pretty much gunned it. I don't blame me. What was the conversation like? I'm always curious what the conversation is like afterwards. What did you and your friend talk about as you guys were leaving? We just reasoned out what those things had to be and put a name on them.

And I said, that's got to be what my grandpa always talked about being boogers. And he said, you reckon that was Bigfoot? And I said, well, it could be. I think Bigfoot, that's the term they got for them out of the Northwest. I, this was in the 80s and we hadn't really been exposed to much. I hadn't seen any of the movies or anything. That was, that was, that really wasn't my genre to pursue. I had friends that had seen Boggy Creek.

I don't even know when that came out. I think 70s or, it wouldn't it? But I never did, I never did see the movie. I think that's interesting, you know. I haven't had too many guests on that have seen these creatures talking back and forth and using hand gestures back and forth. I know I had the two brothers on that had the problem with these creatures around their property. You can hear them in the intro.

But they talk about that. They talk about them using hand gestures. One was kind of in charge using hand motions. You go here, you go here. And it was interesting. Even the gentleman I had on with the LBL episode, he talked about them. Looked like one was kind of directing traffic. now there i watched them i watched them for a half an hour i mean they were they were they were when i

first saw them they were all together that's what really got me you know and uh yeah i couldn't i couldn't do much else they pretty much took up the whole day conversation about them and what we'd seen and etc this was at 9,000 foot so i mean this was they had to have come from somewhere you don't you know i had in that area I had seen earlier that day I had seen a couple of what do you call them TP structures but not there's just you know it was they they as they were quakeys that were leaning up against big pines and then I saw two pines pushed over you know I really didn't know what that meant I didn't know what it was I you know at the time now I know but I didn't you know I think

that they had probably marked out an area I think they were moving through they'd marked out an area and we're figuring out whether or not they were going to be able to stay there. That's my humble opinion. Back then, I didn't know. I didn't know much, you know. I'd been hit with Infrasound a couple times, figured it was Chicken Man or something like that. You know, I grew up fishing farm ponds in intertubes, what we call tube fishing. They got a canvas wrapper around them as they zip on, but they've got a seed in them.

and then you wear waiters if you are comfortable. Some guys, you know, heat of the summer, they'll go without waiters. The most time we got waiters were boots built into them. I had good insulated waiters or wore those most of the time, unless it was real hot. And you'd go out, you'd just kind of kick your way across the pond and fish. That's the way me and most of my friends did. I learned that from my dad. We grew up fishing in farm ponds, and we had heard some weird stuff once or twice and had some pebbles thrown.

We didn't, you know, most of the stuff that I'd done to that time I'd always gone with people, so we didn't pay much attention. We couldn't figure out what it was, but, you know, we were pretty, there was more than one of us. We weren't, we were always healed, too. We always took a gun or more. So, you know, we'd holler back, and we always thought it was illegals moving through, you know, in the area where we were at. We couldn't figure out what it was. Later on, I had an experience in a farm pond fishing at night.

I like to do that, but I got over it after an experience I had where it had to be boogers, and it had to be more than one of them. And I found out then I couldn't walk on water. I was fishing on a full moon and out of the pond by myself. and took me a while, and we had a lot of action people. They were shaking entire mesquite trees. These were big mesquite. And you see three or four mesquite trees that are being shook from the base of the tree at once. And I got hit with the Infrasound and messed my, I didn't want to take the way.

I didn't even bother to take my waiters off. I got to the edge of the pond, do everything in the back of my blazer and hit it. I'll tell you right now, it scared the living crap out of me. I know because I missed my bridges. Inside that thing,

I thought I was going to die, you know, that I was in great imminent peril. You know, I've had some experiences after that, but that was actually the first time I'd seen them, first time that I had,

you know, females and the little ones, The little ones, the whole deal. I got us, I was kind of on, we were both kind of on overload to tell you the truth. We, it was just more, when we saw them up on the King Gales, it just, it shook us up. Yeah, I would imagine. And what makes you think you hit, you got hit with Infrasound? So you're out for the audience movie, back it up a little bit.

So you're out fishing. Yeah, this was in a pond in Oklahoma. Yep. Yeah. and I was I have a I'm a Christian and I have a background in deliverance in emotional healing deliverance and I have a background of of kicking the demonic out of people and I've we've seen people vomit and have all kinds of stuff and I had never ever ever gotten upset about that never bothered me in the least and you know you just kind of the more they the more they the more they don't want to go, the more you've got to make them go. But this was a scenario. When I started feeling this,

I thought, well, this might be demonic. So I decided to come against it, and I did it real loud. And I think that set them off even stronger. And when that didn't work, I knew I was dealing with something. What I did didn't work, because it always works. When it didn't work, I thought, my God, they've come something's here from the river. The river was, maybe it's a Canadian there. might be the Cimar.

I guess it's the Cimarron. Cimiron River was two miles over from this pond. This was out in the Gloss Mountains in Oklahoma. And I'd fished that pond probably, I don't know, two, three hundred times prior to that, but it had been a few years. And so I went out there on my own of an evening

and I was out there about this was about 2 a.m. And I just, before any of the actions started, I had a feeling that something that I was about to have a, experience that was going to kill me. You know, I was in fear for my life. And so I took authority, and when that didn't work, then I thought, my God, and then the bushes, once I got loud, then the bushes started going.

I heard what I thought was, sounded like a panther scream, you know, a mountain line. But that was a ways back. But when I saw, when I saw those mesquite trees going and I picked up some movement just right behind one that was not too far from the edge of the pond. This was like a two acre pond. I was parked up on the dam and I started trying to get myself out of there. You have to kind of kick

backwards. You know, it was like I was in the worst situation you could be and I was in an inner tube with my legs dangling down and a big, heavy pair of waiters with boots and I'm kicking backwards and it took me a minute and a half to get to get to

and this was going on the whole time. And it was just a sense of dread. My God is a sense of dread. And for the audience, those mesquite trees aren't the easiest thing in the world to shake. You can grab the edge, you can grab a limb on a mosquito tree, and you're not going to shake anything but that limb. Yeah, that's what I mean. Those are tough trees to move. It's a very hardy, hardy, bush isn't the right word. It's a hardy tree. Well, it's, if you went in there and you could get enough ground clearance to get in there and hit them with an eye,

It'd take a lumberjack probably two minutes to cut through one. These were mature mosquito trees, about nine foot high, and whole in circumference, they're probably, or if you go straight across, they're probably, I guess, diameter. I get circumference, yeah, diameter, they're probably 15 feet across, 10 to 15 feet across. When you heard that scream and then the tree starts shaking, Did you hear any other vocalizations? Nope.

Nope. Just the tree's shaking at that point. I don't think they wanted me to see them. I think that they just wanted me out of that pond. I think they'd taken over that pond, and they were probably... If you were tall enough, I think you could get in there and get fish. That thing was full of bass, full of bass, and turtles and everything in the sun. It's always interesting, you know, and I don't know if it's infrasound or not.

I'm not completely convinced about infrasound. it might be a lot of the way people react and a lot of the way people afterwards. Well, I didn't know about Impresound to even use that word until I listen to Kumbah, until I listen to the Bigfoot Outlaw. But it made sense to me because I just, I had a rumbling in my chest, and by the time I got to the truck, it got real mad. And that's when I vacated my bowels right there in my waiters. It was over.

And I knew right then that I, needed to, you know, I pertinent took out half of two mosquito trees on the way out of the road to I didn't even I didn't even bother to back up when I got off the road a little bit. I just kept on going. I scratched up my truck. Pretty fierce.

But there is a weird thing that happens with people in those situations. I've talked to many hunters who've been out in situations and they'll describe that, that imminent fear, they've got to get out of there, they really haven't. In your situation... I've had some close encounters up north

with grizzly bears and I never I never I never had a problem with my bowels and and nor did I feel like that I was in you know something was in front of me that I saw and I knew what was going on this was I never for me not to see anything and just you know that if the impresound hit me if I'm calling it that that in retrospect whatever it was that hit me if it's infrasound whatever but it uh I mean I had a I had a I had a I had a sense of fear and dread. You know, I'm 6'2, 220, and healed. I mean, I had guns on me.

And, you know, I didn't, if it had gotten any worse before I got into the truck, you know, I had thought about pulling out. I had a 38 on me just to shoot turtles with or snakes. Actually, I had little shot shells in there to kill snakes, or at least get them to change your mind if a cotton mouse came at me. and then I've had the rest of it loaded with, I'll think two of those, and then the rest loaded with bullets.

And I thought about popping off a few rounds, but to tell you the truth, I thought if whatever is making me feel this gets up, I don't know that I got enough gun here. And I certainly don't want to be shooting a gun off if I'm in a pond under a full moon and they got guns, you know. I felt like a sitting duck. You know, I'd like to talk about the encounter that you had when you're inspecting the farm, the two creatures you came upon. But before I get into that, you know, I'm still thinking about that first encounter when you came across the group of them. And I don't want to glaze over that

too much on what you saw. You know, I mentioned earlier about the two brothers. They had seen the creatures kind of pointing and directing traffic. I talked about the gentleman that had the encounter at the LBO. He describes the same thing. And it's interesting, even the guys at the Siege of Hanabia. I remember him saying, there was one that was smarter than the rest of them. And if you go back and listen to it, he kind of explains why he says that. But one of the things he talked about was it directing traffic, almost like it was pointing at some of them, telling them where to go,

and he was the smart one in the group. I just think that's interesting. It just kind of came back. Well, that's what I saw up on the Cuyales with my binoculars. Yeah, this was, my experience in the pond was six years later, but what I saw back in 84 on the Kenyos, that's what I saw. We call it the Kenneos County. We call it the Kenneos just because it's, this is the back part of the county,

and it doesn't really have a name except it's the edge of the Weimanooch. The Weimanooges is straight up and down, and there's not very many people going there. My cousin is a mountain man, and he was running a small ranch at the edge of it, and he went in there with the Game Ranger. My cousin had been there three months, and he was having to take the Game Ranger back in there, because even the Game Ranger was in charge of it didn't know how to get back in there. The Kenjeos is a big open area, high elevation open area. The Wyman Ooch is straight up and down.

It's the biggest wilderness area in Colorado. This is right next to it. This is over straight east of Durango. One of the encounters I found fascinating, What happened to you in the mid-90s, I believe, and for the audience, we'll just say you do land inspection for farms. So a lot of times you're in the middle of nowhere out at these locations. If you would, would you mind talking about what you ran into and then? Sure.

That was my face-to-face encounter. I call it a Class A, I think. I was out doing farm inspections after flooding in that area, the 93-94 flood. and seeing how much had been lost to the river and what kind of damage there was. And I had done that a lot in the previous years in Oklahoma and Kansas, southeast Kansas, and parts of Texas. I had gotten out of the business, but when they had the 93-94 floods, I got a phone call and I was back in business.

And the water had been up there from the Missouri River for, It was anywhere from 30 to 60 feet, or pardon me, 30 to 60 miles wide, 30 foot deep and was up over 90 days. And so the Missouri River had changed its river, had moved over and new into new riverbed, carved out new riverbed. I guess they call it changing the course of the river. But it was bad. I got there right at the end of the water receding. There were still cattle.

We saw cattle corpses in trees 30 feet up in the air. Cattle stuck in trees. It was one of the weirder things I've ever been around. They floated up there. Got stuck and couldn't get down. You could tell from the markings, you know, the mark missing on the trees, they'd kick quite a bit trying to get out of that. They even had a cemetery that washed out.

and they had graves in there that went back to the, this is a right at the edge of one of the towns, they had graves in there that had been in there since Civil War. And they washed it out, and there were stories of people finding corpses up and down the Missouri River downstream of there that were still had the pillow under their heads. And so there was a lot of strange, strange stuff. but I had been in Carroll County and southern part of Carroll County and I'd been looking at some farms

and the berms had broke parts of the farms had gone into the river and so I'd gotten my I was driving a tourist station wagon a little front wheel drive at the time I got out and and went over a berm

looked at the river took some pictures and I had come farther north the berm was north-south berm and the river had flowed parallel to that berm and then made a big wide bend

this is a Missouri river there's a big river and wasn't always real wide you know maybe 50 to 100 feet in some places or 50 to 100 yards and some, pardon me, in some places but there were places

it was a lot wider than that but it was deep this is a Missouri river floating out what Montana it had taken the top so off a lot of farms and ruined them, et cetera. And so I was in there, and half of that farm was gone. And so I had walked up pretty much as far as I could get to where the river had cut,

and then I crossed back over the berm, and I knew there was an east-west berm farther north, and I wanted to go up there and see how far it was to the river. It looked to me like the river was pretty close to the edge of that east-west berm. And so I'd come farther north, and I came back across, and the bushes, and I got hit with just right before I went over the berm, I got hit with the same kind of feeling I'd felt over in southeast, southwest Colorado. And I thought, what in the world?

So I came over the burn, and I'd already decided I was going to get to the car once I felt that, that I didn't need to go look up there. I could give that guy right off. That farm was written off. And so I came over the berm, and about 30-foot-high berm or levy.

They call it levee some places. It was just made out of dirt. I came over that and came around some bushes, and when I did, I turned to the north, and I was going to see how far I could go, just kind of get an eye shot of it before I made my way to the car,

and came face-to-face with these things. They were probably 50 yards away. I had turned and now I'm facing them. And boom, there they are. There's, I was about 50 yards from the edge of that berm. There was some trees that had been planted,

I guess a tree row or something that had been planted there and part of it had been taken out. I don't know. Oklahoma, we call them windbreaks, where you plant trees along an area to keep it from blowing. There's a bugger. and he was in between two trees at his feet planted, and he was rocking back and forth.

And then I saw just beyond him over the berm, another one that seemed to be on its hands and knees. That part of that berm had been washed out pretty much. And the other one was on its hands and knees, and it glanced up at me, and then went back down and looking where it was at. Now I'm looking at this thing, and it's looking at me, and we just kind of locked gazes,

and I'm thinking, what in the world, and what should I do? The Empress sounded quit, and it looked like I had taken it by surprise. I think that's what I had found, what I'd been feeling earlier, before I walked over the berm, but I think it was expecting me to come out where I went in,

and when I came out farther north, you know, closer to it, I think it took it by surprise. It looked surprised for a little bit, and then it just kind of looked like it was interested, but it's still kind of rocking back and forth between the trees. I'm 6'2, 50 yards away. I'd say it was at least a foot and a half, maybe two foot tall in me. And it was all black.

From its nipples up, it looked like Patty. From that part down, it was skinnier. So I've heard the guys on Bigfoot Outlaws talk about the Neanderthal type. I think that's probably what this was. But it was built. It was, I'd say it was at least three foot, three and a half foot wide and the shoulders. And it was cut. And it went way to, it had a real small waist.

And huge, huge thighs looked like an athlete big time. I got a friend that was a quarterback that was in pro football for a little while, and it looked like him, only bigger. All black, had the hair on his face, didn't see a cone, had kind of I didn't see any ears, but had a lot of hair around the side of its face, had hair on its face. It just got to rock back and forth.

The other one, I know what they were doing, a little sidebar. When the water receded, there were crud ads everywhere. There were crawdads. I saw some farms that were completely taken over by cronads. You know,

there was too wet to get in there with a tractor, and they were just, I probably have seen, during that, when I was looking at those farms, two or three million, at least two million crudad holes

you know where the they call them mudbugs where I was from and they had gotten into that soft you know what they came in with the river and multiplied

they're just they were everywhere where the water had been slow to recede but one that was on its hands and knees I kind of knew what was up I thought well

immediately I thought crotads you know mudbugs and that they're digging for me mud bugs. The one that was on its hands and knees, it's kind of hard to judge because I don't know what level the dirt was on the other side of that berm, but if it was like the way I think it was, that sucker was about five foot tall on its hands and knees, because judging by where it came up to on the other one. It looked at me. It looked like it was going to get up, but then its

attention was drawn back down. I think they'd been digging for mudbugs, and that's what they were doing. There were no deer back in the area. yet. I think they were down there looking, you know, eating mudbugs. It seemed to me like when the one that was on its hands in these, it was more brown. It distinctly looked brown. Parts of it were even a lighter brown. But it looked like it had a lot of black on it too. There's kind of a weird color. But the one that was standing up and, you know, had come to deal with me was black.

And the way the one kept looking down and then it finally, it's, you know, I could see it was doing something. I think that it had dug it, they had a bunch of mudbugs up and that they were starting to get away. And it's, I think its attention was more on those crud ads and it was on me. So that's kind of what I, what I deduced. So, but the one that I was looking at, there came a point where I got hit in the chest was from rumbling. And the way that its manner was, is I needed to go. But this was, we looked at each other probably.

20 seconds, and then when that 20 seconds was up, I got the hit with the rumbling in my chest, and I knew that I needed to go. I needed to go right there, and I spun on my, on the ball of my foot, and went straight for the car, and I looked back a bit, but I didn't, he didn't, he didn't follow me, evidently. I got through the bushes and back to my car, and kind of went along the edge of that berm, and then made my way to the car, and I got the heck out of dodge. You know, 50 yards is about 150 feet. And I'm curious, when you're looking at the saying,

and you're looking into the face of the saying, did it look more human-like? Did it look more... It had a face-like, pretty much like Patty. It might have been a little narrower, but it didn't have the conned head, didn't have that head. You know, I'm looking directly at it. I never saw a side view of it.

I saw a side view of the other one. that around the head also. Did the creature's expression change it at all? Yeah, it looked like it was a real surprise that I popped up where I did. And that's why I think I was able to look at it for so long because I wasn't going to go any closer. I can tell you that much. But it didn't come any closer to me either.

It just kept kind of swaying back and forth. It had its feet planted on the base of those trees. It was two separate trees, but they were kind of pointed, they weren't pointed straight up. they kind of went off to a side. I would say they were young cottonwoods or something, I don't know, some kind of a tree that I'd say that in diameter of those trees were probably eight inches across. And he was kind of kind of braced himself between him, and then had his arms spread wide and was holding on to him and kind of going back and forth,

sideways, rocking back and north. I kind of got the impression, because he was too far for me to see, but I kind of got the impression at the end, closer to close to when I bugged, that he had, that he was showing. showing me his teeth, but I couldn't see for sure, but I kind of got the impression. He kind of made a weird face, you know, and I thought, oh, boy, it's time to go. That's when I was getting hitting, the rumbling in my chest and the fear and dread and terror that I was about to get

clobbered. Yeah, and that's what I was curious about if the expression actually changed. A lot of times with witnesses, when they come face-to-face with these sayings, they'll describe them as being stone-faced or looking surprised. And that's why I was curious if the expression on the creature's face that actually changed. Well, he watched me for a while like I was, like he was interested in me. The surprise lasted about five seconds, and then he kind of just, you know, our gaze locked, and he just kind of looked it and looked me over, you know, like he hadn't seen people before, kind of looked me over.

I looked him over. I was kind of locked there for, like I say, you know, this went on for 20 seconds probably. 20 seconds is a long time when you're looking something in the eye. Oh, yeah. It's a lifetime. Did you ever decide to keep doing this, or did it ever cross your mind? I'm done with this type of work? No, no, I kept, you know, I was inspecting probably 15 to 20 farms a day at that time,

and I was getting paid, you know, 300 bucks a farm to do it. So, no, I wasn't going to quit. But I was a lot more careful when I got around the river. I bet. You know, it's interesting when you run into these things. I was, I started packing a pistol after that day. Yeah, that's what I was going to ask you if you decided to go on. I had a gun at the motel, and I got it out and put it on.

It was a 40, you know, back then I carried a series 70, 9-11, 45 ACB, and I always liked it because it was flat and I could stick it above my, you know, my belt and back and not when I was, I didn't carry it in town that way, but when I was out, when I was out, I, you don't want people that necessarily, these farmers or people I was interacting with to see a gun. But, you know, back then, and statute of limitations is over so I can go ahead and say, yeah, I carried it concealed, and I didn't, that was before the days of concealed carry permit. I was packing after that. You know, one of the things I want to talk to you about is the tracks. And I know you've been out in the back country,

either hunting or doing the type of work that you do, you're always out in the middle of nowhere. and I wanted to talk to you about the tracks you've come across. Would you mind talking about some of the tracks that you've actually come across, not necessarily running into Bigfoot, but actually seeing the physical evidence of them? I've seen lots of, we call it sign. I'm a hunter, we call it sign. I've seen poop. I've seen tracks.

I've seen bugger tracks. I've probably seen, I don't know, three or four thousand sets of bugger tracks over the years. after the 84 deal because I started doing the farm. They had, in 86, they had 87, they had floods in Oklahoma. And all along Guastas River, I expected farms all along Wachita. And the Arkansas, Tulsa, and a couple of tributaries that went into there and did a lot of work east of Tishomingo and then along the Red River. from pretty much from Brown Springs

over to I'd say within 50 miles of Brown Springs going east along the Oklahoma side of the Red River and lots of tracks big ones medium-sized ones and little ones so families

come down to water fish whatever going back to Missouri for a second I just remembered the tracks I saw there I saw a couple of times I saw one big mess where something heavy had gone off into the mud toward these mud mud mud tracks and seems to have probably sunk in. I'd have sunk into my waist if I'd have stepped off in that mud. I think it kind of took whatever it was by surprise.

I kind of figured it was a mugger because it was just a bloody mess. and, you know, something had stepped off into that mud and probably gone in real deep and then had to kind of fish its swim its way out of that mud, and it was a, there was a whole bunch of sign there, and I saw bugger tracks around that too. So you could see where it swept its hands. I saw several handprints in the mud

and saw some, where it had tracked mud out of there and saw tracks. Yeah. But going back to Oklahoma, I saw tracks there, and then I saw a lot. I saw a few more sets of tracks in Missouri. What I saw in Oklahoma, you know, I had some pretty close encounters in Tishomingo, east of Tisholingo. I heard some, I got hit with some roars and some screams that turned into roars. It sounded like a woman, and all of a sudden it went into a deep,

Roar all in one one go. Heard owls that weren't owls. I'd be out. I was over east of Paul's Valley, a present, uh, inspecting a farm, praising damage. And, uh, heard yippin,

yippin, yippin, a lot of coyotes and then heard of some others that weren't coyotes. And then as Coombose says, heard the, and it was over. And it would just stop. Then it'd come up again a little later, like it was,

they were calling them back, but saw a lot of tracks, seen a lot of, tracks. The ones also what upset me was, you know, and I would be on the lookout for whatever was causing these tracks. These farms, I was in and out, in and out. I only went where they were really buggered up, where they were really messed up.

And bugger's a word that we use for a whole lot of things. I grew up a horseman. We used the word buggered up or buggered for a lot more than just describing Bigfoot. I got land that was messed up, and I would, I would just get an eyeball on it. See what, you know, I'd have a formula for the dirt, you know, with the top, with the top soil, how bad it was. You know, you'd take a, I had a formula that I used.

I won't go into that. But I had a form, I almost do, but you don't need to hear that. The saw, well, I would call a dog print, probably nine inches across, saw some dog prints. I was the biggest one. I've seen some dog prints that were too big to be a, dog saw a place one time on the Red River cross from there's a town call it is it white white horse something like that in Texas I saw tracks there that look like the front part of it looked like

bugger tracks but they had claws and then it you can see the pad of the ball of the foot and then you go back and it's there was a V and like something and then I saw a There was, it looked like somebody had rested a basketball behind it. So I figured something, something was sitting down. I've since kind of figured that those were some kind of weird. It had human toes, but they were claws on the end. You can see where the closet dug in. And I'm thinking that was some kind of weird variation.

You know, later I've kind of learned that those were probably dogman prints. Saw those there, saw those over in, by McAllister, saw those over in, on a creek, and saw those in Rogers County up north of, or whatever that county is just north of Tulsa, saw them there. I've also seen those around the edge of Ooligah. I'd heard Coombo say that he had been over there

at a town called Foil. I've inspected farms over there at one time, and I've seen weird prints over there too, but I've seen lots of poker prints. down the Red River and up and down that flooded the river that had been flooded there and also over at Holdenville, which is just north of there. It's interesting when you see those tracks, a lot of people right off the bat will say, well, that was a bear. But you've been a hunter. Well, there's no.

Here's the deal. This was all farm ground in Oklahoma, and there's no bears in Oklahoma. There's just flat out no bears in Oklahoma, unless you get to the Kaimichi. and then I would say that there's probably less than 10 bears in the Kaimichi. You know, I've been over there. There's just no bears. I haven't seen any bear sign. Bear sign is easy because it looks like a donut most of time.

That's where they used to call a cowboy used to call donuts bear sign because it looks like bear poop. They put out one looks like dog poop, only it comes solid. Usually, well, the way it comes out, out, it'll curl around and look just like a donut. You get a bigger bear, sometimes it'll come out more in mass. But most of the time, when you're talking about a bear that's probably less than 200 pounds, it's going to look like a donut.

That's why the cowboys called the old cowboys, they call donuts bear sign. Dave, I know we're wrapping it up here and we're closing it out for the night. I wanted to ask you, though, when you were up close, you got a good look at these things. on two different occasions. You got a really good look at them. What is your impression of these things? What do you think that these things are? Well, I'm a part-time minister.

I do a deliverance ministry, emotional healing. That kind of stuff is my focus. I've worked in and out of deliverance ministry, a lot of places. And I kind of look to the Bible. And I know there's a lot of folks that don't. they come up with all kinds of things. But to me, and there's folks that say these are flesh and blood

and there's not anything paranormal about them at all. They're just really good hiders. I believe these things are part fallen angel in some way, shape, or form. Does that mean nephalum? Does that mean one thing or another? I don't know. But I believe that somewhere, way back when, I mean, there's sheep squads, there's Sasquots,

there's dog man, there's, you know, some guys saw, listen, and two different people have seen them that were 16 foot tall dogmen with eyes on the side of their head instead of the front you've got you know all these different dogmen look one way or another you've got these big foot i think these things are part fallen angel in their DNA how far back that was i don't know but i think this thing these things go back to you know it's not just the book of enoch but it's the book of jasher the book of jubilees and and it talks about this stuff i think the reason that the reason that's the book of eerie you know that's

that Moses didn't go into it very deeply was he made reference to is this not in the book of Jubilee is this not in the book of of Jasher and so he made reference to these other books several times in Genesis

and I think that there were other contemporary writings contemporaneous writings that the folks were exposed to back then and he just you know and you almost can hold their verses up to his I think he made his stuff match up with theirs. And I've read that in those other books that, you know,

before the flood, in Noah's time, Noah's time wasn't really the Giants. That was his great-grandpa, Jashire, Enix dad. And with the time in Noah, it was, when I say Moses, Moses wrote the first five books of the Bible. But he referred to the times of Noah. In Noah's day, it was cryptids. And you read in the book of Jashir that they had corrupted the seed of all animals, all reptiles, all fishes, and all birds. And, you know, there's a whole school of thought that got, you know, that if you look to the book of Job, he talks about Leviathan.

And he describes it as having a tree like a cedar tree. Well, they've called it a hippopotamus. the people that put it in English, but I never saw a hippopotamus with a tail like a cedar tree. He's talking about the old Sinclair dinosaur, the big old, you know, the great big long ones with the long neck that were vegetarians.

So why would God have created, if he created those, why would, by the way, that was post-flood in the book of Job that he refers to him. And like Job knows what they were. So there's a whole, there's a whole set of weirdness about all this,

stuff. But I can, I know this much that there's a school of thought that even the tonus, coronasaurus wrecks, the raptors and all that were all of this cryptid stuff from Noah's day, you know, and Jesus said before the end times, as it was in the days of Noah's, so shall it be in the days of the coming of the son of man. So we've been promised we're going to have cryptids. And I can tell you right now, there's been a population boom of all these things, because when I was a kid, we ran all over the country. And, you know, you just didn't hear very many stories about this stuff. And now you hear stories just all the time.

I personally believe that, you know, that the fallen angels are aliens, and I think that they showed back up. The aliens are fallen angels, and I think that they showed back up post-flood, started working their whatever it is they did to cause this. I think these things are part, and if I'm not, right and they are part, you know, the giant of Kandahar, etc. I know I know he's Marzili in his work and knowing and know a lot of these guys. And I'm of the opinion that there's been interference in the gene pool since the flood.

That these things weren't, there's no way in the world, Noah took these on the boat. There's no way in the world these things could have stood up to water that deep. so this is a post-blood and I think that these things have a genetic disposition that enables them to do they cloak I don't know would you call it that well not the way some people do but I've seen videos of a guy that walked past a bush I saw the bush he went back there and then all of a sudden the bugger crosses his trail behind him he's got a camera on behind him and it's a bugger and he goes back there and there's no bush

there's no bush. There's not even anything around the bush. But yet I saw the bush as he walked by it on video. Now, then he goes back and he shows the exact same spot in the wintertime. This was in Tennessee, and there's no roots of any bush. There's no, there was a bush. So if these things have some kind of gene pool, the way I'm talking, and the way that a lot of people believe, who knows what that means?

You know, are they physical beings? and, you know, are they stuck in our dimension? Yeah. Do they have the ability to cloak and all that kind of stuff? Well, I'm kind of in the agreement with people I've listened to Coombo and those guys. I know these, what I was seeing was flesh and blood. But they might have some abilities from coming from their gene pool that make them different than, you know, the regular animals or the regular people.

I think that they've got some abilities from somewhere and that's where I think they're from and that's what I think they are. I mean, it's, it's, and I always laugh. I used to watch the Alaska monsters or something like that.

Those guys were Bigfoot hunters in Alaska. And I thought, yeah, well, this thing might or might not be staged and, you know, it's all television, et cetera, but then they showed those where there was a logging operation that was being harassed, and they put up a drone with a camera on it, and it's got giant teepees made out of stacked, you know, torn down wood, you know, logs.

And they get in there, they go there on foot, and those logs, I can tell you right now, most of those logs that you saw there, they weighed over 200, pounds. And there wasn't a chain mark on them. They're not a drag mark on them. Those were pushed over, and a lot of them, the roots were, the trees were put in there upside down. And they don't look that big, do you think, well, that's just Johnson grass or something like that. But then you see those guys get in it, and that grass that you see around those, you know, it's all yellow like it's gone through a winter. And it's up to those guys' knees.

And those guys are six foot tall, and they don't even get halfway up the first log. These things have got to be 40 foot tall. There was two of them. I mean, I've got pictures. I say, I photo, you know, what do you call it? Screen saved it. And I've looked at those things, and to have that kind of strength, to throw logs that definitely have to weigh 1,000 pounds or more.

And to throw those 30 and 40 feet up in the air to build that thing, you know, that's a It's a fetish drink that I, you know, would leave Andre the giant scratching his head. There's got to be something to these things. For these things to be gigantipithecus, then giganticaticus had to be. You know, there's something superhuman about these things. Do I believe in portals and all that stuff? Well, when you start getting into Paul and Angel stuff, and you start looking at

that these UFOs they've seen them that make a 45 degree turn from dead stop they'll go to 45,000 miles an hour and make a 90 degree turn it just boggles the mind nothing we know as matter can do that

if those things are these things daddies who knows what all they could do you know again you know they're flesh and blood I believe they're flesh and blood I believe that those things came over from the Wyoming.

You know, I believe those things in Missouri were from Missouri, and they'd gone out because of the flood, and it'd come back looking for something to eat because it was their stomping ground along the Missouri River. Did they disappear into another portal and have something to eat there? Well, they wouldn't have been wallowing around in the mud trying to dig crud as if they weren't hungry. By the way, Oklahoma has more deer now than they ever had in ancient history, than they ever had in the 16 or 17-100s.

This place, we got zero predators pertin to air, and we've got deer out our ears. I did inspections for a couple different guys that owned body shops in Southern Oklahoma. Well, for one guy for sure, then I talked to another guy that his brother did or something. But the guy that I talked to, I had hit a deer. And so I was talking to him,

and he said, yeah, we get five cars a week. And I said, really? And I said, how many other body shops are there in town? He said, five of them. I said, how many do they get? He said, five a week. He said, there's about 25 deer collisions a week around in this county. The deer is so thick that people are getting killed, hitting them with their cars.

They're thick as rats. And I believe the reason we've seen a population explosion here is because we got more deer than we know what to do with. And you might be on to something. It's sure interesting. There sure is a weird cover-up with these things. And the other part that's interesting about these things, every time I've talked to someone like a military insider,

they sure like to throw around the word abomination a lot when they're talking about these things. They found a giant in one of the burial mounds over here at Spiro, Oklahoma, less than two years ago, and he was over nine foot tall. and I know some of the guys that were a part of that I used to go to college with one of them and again the what do you want to call it the Smithsonian or the men in black or whatever you want to call it they came and it disappeared with that thing

but they had photos by this guy I knew they had photos and the whole thing and all every bit of it and that they that thing was nine foot tall you figure all of the you know the I'm a I'm a I'm a history major. And it turns out I should have took more math and business because what I do,

but I was a history major in college, and I know a lot about Native Americans. And I'm part Chalktaw, part Cherokee, used to sell houseboats. I'll put a lot of houseboats on Lake Powell. I've dealt with the Navajos. And I have a lot of friends that I've got friends that are blackfeet and Sue and all kinds of stuff. and the history that the guys tell you,

oh, we've been here for thousands of years. No, they have not. There were very few Native Americans in the United States until the year 1500 because there were giants in the land. And did they come over? The Native Americans come over the land bridge, yes. But they had us all looking for, at one time when I lived in Colorado, this was in the back in the mid-80s,

They had us looking for, I can't think of what they call it. It's a spearhead. And Clovis, Clovis points. They had us looking for Clovis points, spearheads. And they pay $30,000 for one. And you think we weren't all looking for, when we were out and about looking around in the dirt and edges of, of, wash out, you know, edges of riverbanks and that kind of stuff for points. For $30,000 for one, we were looking all.

over the place, and I've since found out they've never found a single Clovis point east of the Arkansas River. Or, pardon me, west of the Arkansas River. They've never found one. They found a few further north, because the Arkansas comes from out of

south, central Colorado. But they've never found one west in the entire western United States. They've never found one in Alaska. They've never found one in Canada. Now, if these things came over the land bridge, where's the Clovis

points? Because they're thick all over the place in the Ohio up on the Appalachian Plateau. And a Clovis points, nine inches long, they're 12 inches long, and they put them on the end of the spear and hunted on with these things.

And these were big animal-killing spears that would have gone eight to nine foot long. Then you look at this entire population of burial mound, people they've found, and they're all eight and nine to 12 foot tall, six fingers, six toes, and red hair.

If these things that come over the land bridge, then how come there's none of their spear points, but yet they're thick all over the upper Appalachian plateau and into the Great Lakes, and then we find out that even they found signs of the Mino, I found this real interesting, signs of the Minoans, they didn't know what they were. were when they saw them, and they've just recently figured out who the Mnouins were, and that the Munoans were making trips into the Great Lakes into Michigan for copper, and that the copper from Michigan fueled the entire Bronze Age. They've always said, well, because there's no bronze in Europe.

Well, where did the Bronze Age? Where did they get the copper for the Bronze Age? They always said Africa. There's no mines there, but the geologists, when they first opened the copper mines that ran out of the 1800s, their statements were, somebody's already taking it. a hundred thousand or was it ten million tons or a hundred million tons is there ten or ten million tons of copper out of here already and they were just opening those mines so now it looks like the Minoans came down to Great Lakes and

they have found Minoan what you call it carvings on stones and different things kind of like roadmaps to the other Benoans and they've just discovered who these people were and figured out the Minoans in the last decade really in the last five six years. And it was always the mystery in Michigan who quarried all this copper before the white guys ever started quarry in copper. The Indians, the Native Americans were. And so going back to my story, the whole reason they hold up five fingers with the outer

finger stretched is so they'd know at a distance if you had six fingers and they'd know to run. The Apaches were the first ones to come down. I live in an area that was at one time called Comancherea. and even the lonesome dove and the Texas Rangers that stuff is kind of about the Comancherea. You didn't go in the Comancherea. There's a river down in Texas, and you didn't go north of that. And the Comanchees ran that, but before it was Comancheira, it was Apatria.

And it was controlled by the Apaches for 100 years until the 1600s. They came in about 1,500. There wasn't really any Native Americans through the Central United States from the Great Plains and even parts of the Rockies going east. There weren't any.

And anybody that says they, the Ter tribes been here for 10,000 years, they're nuts. They weren't here. They were in Canada. And they all came down a little bit at a time.

The Apaches ended up in Arizona, and I used to hear Apaches in Arizona say, we've been here 10,000 years. No, you know, they used to be in Oklahoma. It was Apache. Then the Comanchees came down with the Kiowas to help them,

and they turned it into Camantaria. And it was Comancheira until mid-1800s, mid-late 1800s. It was Camantaria and the Apaches were moved out into there. They pushed them out into Arizona. So it's interesting about the Clovis Point deal and the giants, there were definitely giants in the lands in the United States. What we know is the United States from a long time ago till the 1800, until 1500. And then I've seen. spent a lot of time in Arizona, and I've talked to people that knew about the reason that they've closed off part of the Grand Canyon, that there were Egyptians in there, and that that's why

they named part of the Grand Canyon about that. I'm an Arizona guy, man. I've been, I spent nine years in, in Arizona, I spent off and on 20, 25 years in Colorado off and on, and then some of it part, full time, part of part time, because my family's from there. And I've, you know, Durango and Mesa Bird, and that's my old stomping ground there and over in Arizona, and Tubba City, and over into, you know, Mexican hat. Like I said, we sold houseboats on Lake Powell, but that's my old stomping ground. There weren't, they talk about the Anasazi, and they don't know who those people were. And then you hear about the Aztecs.

The Aztecs originally came out of the United States, and were run out by somebody. out by the giants. So if the fallen angels are the aliens and there were giants in the land, then it kind of goes to show you that maybe we did have some apes cross the land bridge or maybe these things were over in Asia too. And that this, what's called an ancient people, you know, I believe in, I have great respect for the man that works with David Polites. I can't think of his name, but he's a forensic artist, and he worked for the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation for years,

and he also did work for all the federal government different alphabet soup. And I got great respect for that guy, and he can take the hair off of them, and they look like an 80 people, and ancient people. The only problem is the ancient people at most are six-foot-tall, and these things are nine-foot-tall. so, you know, do they have a, do they have a five finger, you know, five or six fingers and, you know, a root's going back to the five, to the six finger guys with red hair, seemed like that's, that would make a lot more sense than anything else anybody can come up with. So I'm off my pilt box now, but that's my, because I've thought a lot about this.

I'm a thinker. I kind of want to know why in the, what in the world of these things? things, where did they come from? And I go to the Bible. And once I started looking at the book of Jasher and seeing it lined up with the verses about the giants in the land and that pre-stud pre-flood stage and some of this stuff, it just seems to me like that makes a lot more sense than some of the stuff I've heard from other people. Yeah, you might not be too far off. It's interesting to look at, especially I think a lot of our past history, isn't really what we've been taught.

You look at that wall, that that forensic archaeologist that had the TV show, I can't think of his name, he's definitely not a Christian. But that wall out in San Francisco, they never able to figure out who carved that stuff, stacked those rocks and made that stone wall like a fortification wall. And then he traced it to China. And then come to find out, China, they've recreated one of those ships. the sucker is a hundred foot long

or close to 100 yards long and 50 yards wide and they had a fleet of them and they had several thousand men on those ships they got one of them they've recreated sitting in a harbor over in China right now

and turns out the Chinese were over here and basically had settlements and the whole deal way back when you know this whole narrative about Columbus discovered America I think is just nonsense it just doesn't make any sense

sense. It doesn't hold any water. It turns out the forensic archaeologists, they got those guys, tell me if I'm carrying on too long, but they got the forensic archaeologist to look at the runestone and instead of judging, you know, historically, they just simply

took a, that Minnesota runstone, they took a sample of it, and then they measured it against samples. That thing said it was carved in the 1362 or 67 or something like that.

And so they went to gravestones over in Europe, made out of the same material, and the weathering was the same, and everybody says that, oh, that thing was disqualified. Well, the CSI guys requalified it, which means that the Templars and the Vikings were here in what is the center of North America, if you count Canada and Mexico, the center of Northern America is central Minnesota. And they were here in the 1300s. And if they were already here, I'd ought to tell us something. Yeah, it's interesting stuff, especially when you start really researching into who was here.

I tend to agree with you about the Columbus saying. But, you know, Dave, we're almost out of time. I appreciate you coming on the show. Thank you so much for sharing your encounters. And I always enjoy hearing what people think, you know, their impression of what these creatures are. and, you know, just taking the time to come on. So thank you so much. I'm a fan of your show, Wes.

Thank you. I think I've listened to, I've gone back and listened to every episode. Yeah, I appreciate it. Thank you again. Appreciate it. And that's it for tonight, everyone. Remember, if you've had an encounter, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com.

A very interesting encounter. I always love hearing what people, their theories and their impression, and it's like I would say until someone has one in their garage that they're studying, no one truly knows what these things are. But it's fun to speculate about it.

If you get a chance to check out the website, Sasquatch Chronicles.com. And until next time, everyone, have a great night. Being across the country faster than the coronavirus and wagering week is your antidote. I'm Tom Martin and I'm a veteran sports analyst and respected sports handicapper who will help build ESPN's brand.

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