Sasquatch Chronicles - SC EP:33 Frightening Dogman Encounter

Episode Date: June 2, 2014

A listener wrote us with a frightening dogman encounter that happened in 1972 while camping. The creature(s) entered the campsite late at night growling, throwing rocks and surrounded their campsite. The experience still haunts this listener today. She has heard of Bigfoot/Sasquatch but the description of those creatures did not match until years later when she came across information about the dogman.

When I had come down this hill, I had seen this creature cross the road. It would have ripped my locked door from my truck, extracted me from my vehicle, and there wouldn't have been a damn thing I could have done about it. This thing I got to notice in his eyes. His eyes was real, real evil, real sinister looking. You know, the look it was giving me. What's going on now, sir? That's son of a bitch is about six foot.

Yes, I'm looking right here. Welcome to Bigfoot Hot Spot Radio, Sasquatch Chronicles. I'm your host, Wes, along with my brother Woody, and researcher, author, and friend, William Jeffey. Let's start the show. This episode is brought to you by audible.com. Go to audible trial.com forward slash bigfoot hotspot for your first free downloadable book and a 30-day trial. Told you about the guy that sent me the email. How we need to...

He talked about how we need to... something like how it the title of the email was how to grow your audience and it was a bigfoot researcher and he said we need to start having more bigger names on the show and uh coincidentally his his name was in the top 10 of who we need to have on the show and i was just laughing i was just like really you know it's funny i have this kind of a double thing here i was just thinking you know that the show isn't we didn't design it for it's about getting people's stories out to the public but then I thought, oh, wait a minute, it's our show so I can plug my books on here. Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely, man. Yeah, by the way, if anybody wants to find my books, they're on Amazon.com, notes in the field, track of North America, Sasquatch, Haunted Valley, and In Search of the Unknown. We get that asked once in a while, so. It's funny, you know, when we first started the show, I remember when Woody and I first started it, one of the reasons why we started it was I was so tired of listening to it. to the other Bigfoot shows. And if you go listen to all the other Bigfoot shows,

they have the same person over and over and over and over again. And it's the same researcher on every show. You know, I just wanted to hear people's accounts like Woody and I. I didn't really want to, I mean, I hate telling like a dick. It's not like I can't, it's not like we couldn't get Bigfoot researchers. I'm sure we could or, you know, maybe we couldn't, I don't know. But it's not, we're not really trying, you know what I mean? It's not really...

Well, you know, and occasionally we do. I mean, like, we've had, you know, Baron Cumbow, Bob Garrett, you know, and that's probably better than some of the people who are more well-known out there. Those guys are the black sheep of the Big Fix community, just like you and I. Yeah, well, you know, the people who've got the big names

to this person is alluding to and really not worth our time to put on our show. Yeah. Why not just send me an email and just say, hey, I'd like to be on your show. I don't need a breakdown of... Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly.

And include your name in the top 10. I'm not to say, hey, I like the show, fellas. I'd like to come on and we'd have you on. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's another one of those, you know. It's like some of the current stuff out there where the people just, you know, their show is all about trying to convince the audience that there's somebody important. I got news for everyone.

There's no one important in this community. That's right. That's right. Including us, you know what I mean? Like no one's really above anyone. Oh, yeah. You know, I've told people before, you know, I've done this for more than four decades. And there's all these people that claim their experts.

I've done this longer than most people, and I'm far from an expert. I would never, never consider myself an expert. That's why it's still an unknown. You know, there's stuff that still drives me nuts when I listen to other shows. Because I actually do listen to a lot of other shows. There's a lot of things that drive me crazy, but I still listen to. a lot of other shows. And I was telling you,

I was telling you about the, uh, the rock throwing thing on the other show. I won't name, I won't name the show, but I was just, I got a chuckle just thinking about that. Yeah,

so on this other show, again, I won't mention the show, but this guy had been a researcher forever, and they were asking him, what do you think the, you know, Sasquatch,

it has been reported that they tend to throw rocks at people. they were asking him, do you think that's playful behavior? Do you think that's a threatening behavior? You know, what is your take on it? And I was laughing at his answer. He said, well, it depends on the size of rock they're thrown at you. If it's a small rock, it's playful behavior.

If it's a large rock, it's threatening behavior. And I'm thinking, you know, it's not like Sasquatch has rocks in his pockets and, you know, he's going to pull ones out of his left. It's whatever as at the feet of the Sasquatch at the time, I would imagine. It's like you said earlier. If the pockets on the left,

you know, these are the playful rocks, the ones on the right pocket, the aggressive ones. Screens of flute player to me. It just made me laugh. You know, it's just like,

really, do they have a stash of rocks? And depending on the type of mood they're in, they're going to throw big rocks or small rocks at you. You don't think for two seconds that has to do with the type of rocks that are at their feet at the moment.

And what are they used? They don't have rocks. I mean... Yeah, how would you describe that behavior then? You know what I mean? Some of the things people come up with just amaze me. Just when I thought I've heard everything, somebody will come up with something new.

Yeah, there seems to be lacking some common sense, I think, in a lot of this field, you know, with regard to... And again, with this field, what's funny is people can't figure things out or there's no common sense to it. They'll make up a... People just start making crap up. Yeah, that's exactly it. They start come up with weird craft

that they used to describe their behavior. It's just like, really? I know I think it has more to do with the psychology of humans than it does assess. Well, I know we were going to go into more on the behaviors. Maybe we could go into that next week

and throw our two cents in. Right. Which is actually worth $35 and change. but for people listening to the show, you can listen to the show on iTunes, you can download the App Stitcher, Ron, just about every podcast player out there, more than just YouTube.

I know it takes me a little while to upload it to YouTube, and I, you know, tend to get a lot of angry emails about why it's not on YouTube. Yeah, I think people just don't understand, like we were talking earlier, just the technicalities and the time it takes to do some of these things. You know, and they don't understand that, you know, we're not independently wealthy or anything like that. You know, like we were, again, talking earlier about my being an author.

Well, you know, I haven't sold millions of copies yet, so I can't live in leisure. I have to go work a job just like everybody else. And then you do too, of course, so, you know, and we don't make any money from this show. And this is just out of... You're not driving a Ferrari out there in the Hollywood Hills? Yeah, people have to have little patience with us. you know, doing this. Yeah, and now I'll try and get it up on YouTube a little bit quicker,

but it just takes a little bit of time because I have to reformat it to video format for YouTube. That's why it takes so much longer to transfer it. But be patient if it's on YouTube, but there's other ways to listen besides just be on YouTube. Well, tonight we're supposed to have Bob Garrett on, and Bob's actually pretty sick with the flu. I spoke to him yesterday, and he's not doing so good.

So if you're out to listen to me... It sounded really bad. So if you're out there listening, Bob, we hope you get well. And take care of yourself and drink lots of fluids. I hope you get well soon. He will be back on sometime. Yeah, hopefully we can get him next week. Hopefully we get him back on next week.

Yeah, well, I hope he's better by then. Yeah, of course. So our guest tonight is Pam. She's going to tell us about her account back in 1915. 72 in Arkansas. Yeah, it sounded more like a dogman encounter for what people called. Yeah, and she actually had a really good drawing that she made of what she saw, and that's exactly what it looked like.

Yeah. We got to come up with a better name. They said, Dogman. Yeah, absolutely. We'll just say the type 3. Yeah, we can go with type. Well, Dogman sounds more sexy than type 3. We'll figure something out.

We'll figure it out. The baboon. We'll get back to it. Yeah. Yeah, we'll get back to you folks on that one. We'll work on that one. We'll draw it up in the sand and get back to you on that. All right, well, let's go ahead and bring Pam on.

Thanks so much for coming on. We really do appreciate it. No problem. Well, let's go into your account, Pam. Now, this was in 1972, correct? Yes, it was. Tell us, what were you doing prior to, you know, tell us about that day and sort of lead us into the events as they unfolded.

Okay, well, we had been down to Arkansas a couple times previously in the Ozark area and visited. We knew there was this big lake project about to open up. They had flooded this big valley, and it was going to be just a stunning recreational area. So we'd heard that, well, they started it in 1966, and it took them that long to complete it. just really huge and it was called Beaver Lake project. So we decided we were going to go down there for maybe four days and check it out. We were Army Brats, so we traveled all the time

and we would take weekend trips and just jump in the Volkswagen van and find a nice stream and camp there. My brother was 16. He was going to go with us. I had a two-month-old and a 14-month-old at the time. My husband was going to do all the driving in this 67- or 68 Volkswagen van. I can't remember which it was. But we drove down there. It was a long day. We were coming out of Leavenworth, Kansas.

We got down there, and the park was pretty empty. It had just opened. And I believe we were one of the first people to sign into a campsite. That's what the ranger was telling us. We found this site, and either of you guys have been to the Ozarks, but there were a lot of these sandstone rocky outcroppings. And in this one outcropping area, it was kind of like a little horseshoe. They'd built this cul-de-sat with four little campsites in it,

right in this rocky wall area. And we thought, wow, this is just perfect. No one's around. There's a mile or two between us and anything. So we pulled in there, and this afternoon we had a little lunch, and my brother was going to sleep in the little puff tent right outside the van, and the babies were sleeping up on the back cover over the engine compartment. There was a ledge, and I was going to sleep on the back seat,

and my husband was going to lay on the van floor, and that was our camping rig. So we got there, we ate a little bit, wandered around the campsite. This campsite was in a horseshoe. And where we were parked, we would have been, if you're looking at the horseshoe, as starting on the bottom left, going up into an art and ending on the bottom right, we were on the bottom left leg of this horseshoe. And the road went right straight in the middle of it.

So our site was up uphill from the second site, which was downhill from us by about 20 feet. So we were up on a ledge and then there was a site down below us and then the road and then two sites over on the other side by the right leg of this horseshoe. They've cleared it out pretty good, but there was a good line of small brush between us and the second campsite, the one below us. and so we parked in the upper one. I would say we were about 10 to 15 feet from the left leg of that horseshoe wall. It was only about 10 feet between where the van was parked and that wall.

And then as the wall ran up the horseshoe, if you followed the horseshoe shape to the highest peak, the highest arch of the horseshoe, that would be where the road ended. we walked around there and we checked it out. We thought it was really beautiful area. Up on the top of that ridge were some pretty good-sized trees. I would think it was over 50 feet high. I would say it had to be over 50 feet tall. But there were some pretty good trees up there

and you really couldn't see past anything on the ridge. At earlier, we saw there was a really good swimming spot over by the dam. So the guys wanted to go swimming. And that's when this began to be the National Lampoon Ozark vacation, you could say. Everything that could go wrong went wrong. They jumped into swim. My brother realized that this, because of the heavy flooding they just had, there was a really strong undercurrent.

And he came back to shore right away. He said he had a horrible time just getting back. and so my husband was just swimming like crazy farther out and he didn't realize he had no idea that he was going to have a horrible time coming back and we couldn't get his attention so we honked the horn on the van and he saw us and we waved him back so he started coming back

and long story short he couldn't make it back it was it was like swimming in an endless pool and he went under. My brother got out far enough with a big long tree branch to catch him and to get him to come up and grab onto it, pulled him back to shore. He was completely, completely waterlogged. I mean, he was just coughing and puking up water.

And so we thought, well, the vacation's over, jump in the van, went to the ranger station. they told us to go to Rogers, Arkansas, where they had a small hospital. So we got there, and sure enough, he had pneumonia, and he was supposed to stay there overnight, but he wouldn't do it. He didn't want to ruin the vacation. So we stayed there for a few hours, and it was starting to get to be around late supper time, so we couldn't talk him into saying, went back to the campsite,

and we were told by the doctors to watch him for the next 48 hours, and he was just going to sleep, sleep, sleep, and that we would take, Bruce and I would take shifts and watch him, you know, as he would check on him all night and wake him up every three or four hours. We got the campsite and was getting dusk, and we ate sandwiches and beans on the campfire,

and he was just out. My husband was just passed out in a sleeping bag on the van floor. A few minutes after we got done eating and cleaned up, a pickup truck pulling a little pop-up tray. came into the camp site, and we just all looked each other and went, how did they even find this site? We thought we were out there all by ourselves, and here's the game. But they pulled into that campsite that was down below us,

and it was about a 20-foot drop to get down there. Sitting in our van, looking down, I could see the top of their truck over the brush, if I looked over the brush. This family with two little kids, man and woman, got out, and they used their campering and they ate and they popped up their trailer and we were all pretty quiet. I was getting the kids to sleep and husband was passed out ill on the floor. He was in bad shape. And my brother and I said we were exhausted.

As soon as it got dark, he crawled into the pup tent. And so I closed everything down. We got it all quiet and I lay down on that back seat with my head. towards those two opening doors on the van. I kept awake and checked on my husband, woke him up, and he got up and coughed and drank water and shivered and went back to sleep. And I woke my brother, went out there and said, Bruce, it's your turn, I got to get some sleep.

So he got in and sat in the passenger seat, and I went to sleep. And around 3.30, it couldn't have been more than a half an hour. I laid down, and then I heard a whole bunch of animals. animal sounds that coming off the ridge up above us, strange. First I thought it was coyotes. I thought, well, I was a bunch of coyotes up there because there was this small yips and howl. Actually, at one point it sounded like something was killing a rabbit. And there was a little screaming, and it made me edgy.

But I laid back down, I thought, well, you know, it's three of the morning. That's when creatures do their thing. and I just tried not to think about it. And I was just about to drift off to sleep. And that's when there was this tremendous sound. I mean, a huge crashing bang hit the side of the van right by my head. I mean, I sat bolt upright. You're in that half of sleep state,

and then all of a sudden you sit up and your brain tries to paint the picture, what was that? I remember to this day exactly what I pictured was great big giant softball, would have been thrown at the van at about 100 miles an hour by a pitcher, and it would have hit. That's about how hard it sounded. And I don't know, I thought before, maybe it was just because I was in that almost a sleep stage that sounded louder.

but my husband who had been full out, passed out feverish, he jumped to his feet in that van. He jumped to a bent over stance. And my brother, I heard the van door swang open. He jumped in that car so fast from the pup tent. And we all just sat there staring at each other. a good 30 seconds. Just like, did we all hear that?

Did we really hear that? And my brother was looking out the front window. He got up into the front seat. He looked out the window. And we're looking outside windows, and it's just pretty dark out. I mean, you know, it was almost light enough where you could see, I'd say you could see 10 feet behind the van. You could see around a little bit because our eyes were pretty good adjusted,

being asleep. and we just sat there and I mean my heart was in my throat because you just, you know, you're trying to picture what would do that. And then I remember our brother looking down at the campsite next to us. He must have thought, you're thinking of what are those people doing? He must have thought one of them came up there and banged on the, and then ran away or something. I don't know.

He kept looking down there and I said, are those people awake? And he didn't say anything. and we're just sitting there, all of us just kind of shaken. And then my brother said that there was something moving in the rearview mirror. He was sitting in the passenger seat, and he happened to look in the rearview mirror, and he said, there's not moving out there. And I mean, we, all of us just spun to the back window. And I remember seeing just a large black shadow,

just blacker than the rest of the surroundings, shot from left to right from the back of the van. Just the huge passing cloud almost. It was that fast. It was between, oh, 15, 20 feet behind the van, and I would say it was about a third of the way to that rock wall. Between the van and the rock wall. It was about a third of the way to that rock wall.

And it was just out just on the edge of what you could see. where there was a difference between light and dark from what you could see in the glow in the sky. And it just shot, we saw it go to the right and down. I don't know how to explain it, except or else maybe it bent down. But we knew it was going down the hill towards that other campsite. Now, all three of us said, did you see that? Did you see that? Yeah, what was it?

I don't know. And my brother was still looking out on the top of that camper. and he says, I think he went down there to the camper. We sat absolutely. We were afraid we were going to wake up the kids, so we didn't say anything. We were just sitting there, and I remember just getting really shied,

just getting jitters, just really getting jittery. The kids actually started to wake up and stir. And I was like, oh, oh, oh, not a good time, you know, come on, go back to sleep, and cajoled them back to sleep. They immediately went right back to sleep. I was trying to keep my head low I didn't want it Whatever it was out there

To see you know I was up and had my head up My brother said Hey those people down there They're moving around And my husband peaked out the window And he said Are you sure it's a them? And I said who else would it be?

You know And then we saw a little flashlight Come on And we saw some movement Inside the You know how you can see a light Through the tent top and we saw people moving and then we couldn't see anybody really, but we could hear them.

They were whispering and scuffling around a little bit, and they got into their pickup truck. I remember the man talking about talking to the little kids that they'd get in, get in, and they got in this pickup truck, and they started picking things up around the trailer, and I think he was actually unhooking the trailer now that I think about it, because I don't think they unhooked it when they pulled in. I think they just popped it up. And I heard, you heard those little people moving around putting things away sounds, you know, little crunches and bangs and everything,

but no lights, just that one little flashlight. I don't even remember seeing if a light came on in the truck, actually. We talked about it later and we figured it was actually probably less than 10 minutes, and all of a sudden they just pulled out. out. They turned their lights on and they just floored it out of there. They left the camper there and they left. They were flying down the road. And that's where we were all sitting there going, oh, oh. The thought actually went across my mind that maybe they had had some kind of domestic altercation. Like maybe they had gotten a fight. Maybe they had come up and maybe thrown

something at our van or something because now they're mad and they're going to pull out. I mean, I was just trying to paint a picture that made sense here. Right about the Then my husband and my brother Bruce just out of the blue, open up the doors and got out. And I was just like, okay, they must think the same thing that it was those people and stuff. But they stood around the side of the van by the doors where that huge sound came. And they were asking me, where do you think of hit? And I pointed, you know, right here, right by my head, right by the opening door. and they searched and searched.

They had the inside van light on. We didn't want to wake the kids, but they had it on, and they were looking with a flashlight, and we could not find one dent, not one scratch, nothing on that van. Honestly, we expected, like I said before, a softball-sized dent. It was impossible that there was no dent on that van.

You know, they were standing there maybe two, three minutes, so maybe 15 minutes after those people left, That's maybe that long total. And my brother was saying jokingly that maybe there was a hillbilly who was kind of mad about the park being open because we'd heard there was some people who were displaced to open this park and that they were actually causing problems. And he was joking around saying,

yeah, maybe there's a hillbilly out here who wanted to freak us out, stared everybody out, you know. And we kind of said, yeah, right, you know. And now maybe a total of 20 minutes after that bang happened and the people were gone, we're just kind of, they're outside the two open doors standing there, and it's getting cold in the van. I didn't want them to wake kids to get it too cold. So I was like, guys, you probably should come on in and get back to sleep.

And all of a sudden, I mean, just like that, we heard sounds from the ridge, which would be right in front of the open doors of the van. That would be that bottom left leg of the big horseshoe ridge. And we all three, our heads all three turned right over there. And you could just hear crunching, brush moving, rocks falling, just like somebody was scrambling down the hillside and knocking stuff loose and moving vegetation, you know, crackling twigs. and then after about 10 or 15 more seconds, it got really loud.

It was like really loud pounding steps. You could hear a thump, thump, and then rocks and brush and the thump. I remember thinking, my goodness, how kind of a thing is walking on two legs, it's that big. It sounded like a giant was walking down a flight of stairs real slowly, just boom, boom. But you could tell it was coming down that rock ledge. and it was moving down and towards the arc of that horseshoe. In other words, away from the back of our van. So it was coming from the left and moving around to the back on the right.

You could just hear it. I think one of the guys shot the flashlight up there, but we couldn't see anything but brush and little rock outcropping. I think he did that, but I can't really remember right now. but I think we did flash it up there. And the guys, we were just frozen, and then all of a sudden the guys eused into the van and got up into the front seat.

I closed those back doors so quietly. And there was not a sound. I started shaking. I was like, what is going on? Somebody is out here trying to mess with us, and we're in this van. And all of a sudden, just as soon as he got in that front seat,

I swear, my husband turned the headlights. on and pushed on the brake pedal so it would light up the area but I didn't know he was going to do it and I just you know jumped all that light flashed on all at once and I thought I was going to jump out of my skin and we all started looking right I realized what he was doing then and because there was the scuffling and the breaking twigs and the rocks and all that got really loud and it was like it was right next to us I remember hearing rocks hitting the fire ring and and hitting the pup tent. It was that close that stuff was getting shook loose from the ridge. And we were just looking around, looking around, looking around, and in the glow around us, off to that front right of the van, halfway up the ridge, just like where our ears were telling us it was coming from. The first place we looked was right up there because that's where we heard the sounds coming from.

And the lights from the old Volkslog and van lit up a pretty good thing left to right, a pretty good arc left to right. And that's when we saw about 25 up that, about halfway up that ridge, about 25 feet up that ridge, just where the light barely reached, what you would say is the legs of this thing. and only like 10 to maybe 12 feet from looking out the van doors that close but up was this hairy person thing coming down in steps off that ridge just like like walking down the outcropping I mean all three of us were just like I remember feeling like I was just going to

crawl under the bench and I'll crawl under the back heat and say, let's just pretend like we're not home. And I just kept, I was just staring at it. I mean, we couldn't figure out what it was. I remember seeing the hair first because in the light from the van's lights, the ends of the hair seemed to be silver-tipped. And I guess that's where my brother got the idea of it being like a German shepherd's hair, almost sparkly in the light because it was so silver tipped at the edge,

but the rest of him was pretty dark. As it came down, you could see more of it, and more of it got into the light, and I could see that it was really dark. It was a dark creature, but it had this silver streak down its back from its shoulders all the way down to its buttocks. And I couldn't see a tail. I don't think there was a tail because from what I could see, it was just kind of bent half over and using his arm to push brush out of the way and steady itself against the rock.

But he never quit moving. He was constantly coming down and going away towards the top of that horseshoe of that ridge. And sometimes he'd be on four legs and then he'd stand up and step down a couple steps. And so the closer he got, the more he stepped down, the more he stepped down, the more we could see him in the light, but the further he was getting away, the less I could see of the front of him. All I remember just staring at the face, staring at, trying to see it if it was a, you know, I thought it was a person.

It was a really, it wasn't like people described Sasquatch, like a giant football player. I would say he was about maybe seven feet tall when he stood up. He was really tall. He was, no, I wouldn't say slim. But compared to what people say, Sasquatches, he was slim. He reminded me of a, if you had a really buff basketball player,

but not giant shoulders or anything. But he did have this weird barrel chest that, I guess I could describe it as if you look at a bulldog and he has that chest that comes out and then goes in to his waist, that stuck out in my mind, that chest. And that's when I started thinking, is that an animal? And I was just kind of like, is that an animal, or is that a guy? And I realized he was completely covered with hair and there was no clothes.

And he kind of turned a little bit. He made jerky head motions and he turned. I remember when he first was coming down that ridge, he turned a little bit. And I saw that he didn't have any hair on his cheeks on the side of his face. And he had kind of a, it's hard to tell because it was so dark and you're in the light of a dim sort of, you know, Volkswagen van headlight. But I think he had gray skin, lighter gray skin. The crazy thing was he looked like a human.

I didn't see his eyes, but it was just a dark triangle for eyes. but his nose wasn't a human nose and it wasn't a monkey nose. It was kind of a dog nobe. It wasn't as long and pointed as a dog. But it was a square box. Now, I would say maybe he weighed 250 pounds. When he went out of sight, and this whole descent didn't take very long at all, maybe two to three minutes from when we first heard the sound.

starting up at the top of the ridge until he was going away from us. I did notice the other weird thing was that when he turned, when he jerked his head back and forth looking at us and then looking back down, he had little ears on the side of his head, and I could just tell the outline of an ear, but the weird thing was he had little cuffs of hair sticking up on the ear that made it look like, you know, there's a cat like a link, or something that has those tufts of hair

or a bobcat has those tuffs of the hair up on it? Right. Right. Yeah. That's what I remember seeing on this ear. So I did not see a dog ear. And I can't say I saw a human ear.

I just saw this spot in his fur, which my brain said was an ear. And I saw the tuffs. And when he turned, I could see that tough move. That was the weird thing. I was like, what? That's not a man. and that's not an animal.

What the heck is that? And we were just, we didn't say a word. And then right when we lost sight of it, which would have been by the back windows of the van as it was heading towards the far back end of the road, which would be that horseshoe ridge, right before we heard this big, oh, and then a growl. I've been thinking about that.

It had to be pretty loud. Because we were closed up in the van, and he was that far away. And yet it sounded like he was right outside the door. And it was a big, and then this really gravelly gr-gr. And that's when it finally struck me, that's some kind of animal. You know what I mean? I was just like, oh, my gosh, that's some wild animal. This is where the insanity hit.

Now, this is because I've got to say it's got to be because one of them was 16 and the other one was 20, that they insanely, just my brother and my husband, opened the front doors of the van and jumped out. They jumped out. After this growl and this menacing thing we just saw, they jumped out. It stood in front of the van with their heads down kind of like hiding and trying to see it better. And they were asking you out there, what do you see? What do you see? Do you see it?

Do you see where it went? Do you know where it went? And they had the doors open, the van doors open. And that blocked the light that was going back there. So if you could see anything, if they'd shut the doors and gotten away from the light, they might have seen something, but they were cowering in the front looking out. And just as suddenly as that bang happened on the van, a complete

a hailstorm of gravel hit. I mean it hit that car. It mainly hit the open driver's side door. It mainly hit that. It was definitely aimed at them. And it came from back

where that creature was from back there. And I mean, it was like a, oh man, it was like gravel and dust. And it was, I would say, three or four buckets full. All at once, just,

in a huge shower. It's just a rainstorm of rock. Those guys jumped in that van so fast and started it up, backed out, and we were burning down that road, as fast as a Volkswagen van like 60 horsepower can go. But we were out of there. I remember not ever looking anything but out that back window the whole time because I expected we were going to be attacked.

I mean, I thought, I started thinking, is there more than one of these things out there? And this was about, this whole thing took from the moment I laid down until this moment was maybe 30 minutes. It was all that fast. I mean, we were just shocked and stunned. We didn't have time to react until the next thing happened. And we're trying to figure that out, and then the next thing happened.

And so it was about 4 a.m. We left the park, drove for a long time. and got out, I think it was Rogers, Arkansas again, where we found this little general store, and they had street lights, and we pulled in there and just parked there. And we get into this parking lot, how we all that we turn off the van and we're drinking water,

and we're just like we had run the whole way ourselves. And my brother started saying, I think that was a bear. But actually, it looked more like a German shepherd, and I'm like, Bruce, a seven-foot-tall walking, he's German Shepherd. And then he'd shake his head and say, well, I don't know. And then my husband said, well, it had to have hands to throw all that rock.

And then we were talking about how the hair seemed to be like a German Shepherd's hair, I guess, you know, models passing, but that mainly the silver down the back and the silver tips that kind of glittered. But about 5 a.m., we passed out. Six o'clock, the store opened up, and the people were, they pulled in the driveway. a man and a woman and I was feeding the kids and, you know, changing diapers and giving them a little bath and everything, and I was just wiped out. And I needed to go in and get a few items, so I went in, and I mean, I'm sure I look like a wreck. I mean, I look like a crazy woman because it had been through a war zone, you know, and I walked in and I asked them a couple of questions. Like, you know, you're any reports of some mangy bears or anything with, how about,

and I was just postulating all these animals, you know, so you have any rabbit animals? No. They just looked at me like I was nuts, you know, and we left. And as we were leaving, we went to the Ranger Station on the way out. I mean, this was like 7 a.m. that morning. We went out. We had paid for three days, and we were in there. We told the Ranger about the incident.

And he was like, what? I think he told us he was from Illinois or something. And he said, no, I just came down here for the opening of the park and stuff. And he said, well, I'll go up there and check out the site. And we said, just keep the puff tent. The sleeping bag. We're not going back up there to get it's yours. And he was like, wow, I'll go up there with you.

And we said, nope, we're going home. We drove back to Leavenworth that day. And my husband was still with pneumonia, so we shared driving and so forth. And, you know, we never said, we barely spoke. First, we'd speak, we'd do nothing but jabber about it. And then there'd be quiet. And one of us would say, well, what about it? And then we'd jabber about it, and they'd be quiet.

And then just before we got home, my husband and my brother said, whatever we do, just don't tell anybody about it because they're going to think we're on drugs. And he had a really good job, and my brother Bruce was going to go to veterinary school, and he had just got accepted early. just graduated early from high school. I graduated early from high school. And he didn't want anything to mess it up. And he said, you know, if this gets out.

And you know how all these things get out? And everybody was saying, oh, that crazy bruce, you know what he said? And so he said, please, let's make a pack. Let's don't say anything about it. And I was like, who would you tell anyway? You know what? What are you going to do? I mean, I felt weird talking to the Ranger about it.

And especially back in those days, you know, you got made fun of much more quickly than today. I mean, you know, they just said, what are you smoking, you know, and we were all young, so, you know, we were figuring, oh, man, you know, they're going to really think we're crazy. So we didn't say anything. We kept it quiet. We didn't say a word.

In fact, I just keep trying to push it back, push it back. And then I started, you know, over the years hearing about Bigfoot and stuff, and I thought, now that must have been what it was, you know, a North American ape. But no, he didn't look like the Bigfoot. But I've never seen anything, any picture, any depiction like the thing we saw. And until, you know, I'm fascinated by the Bigfoot thing only because I've been trying to figure out, make this creature man thing that we experienced fit into some kind of little category in my head so I can explain it.

It never had. And then I was listening to your show and then I made a comment online and there were some links to the dogman. thing. I know in the back of my mind it heard about dog man or something, but I always thought we'rewolf, you know, because I think that's what I'd heard about was a werewolf, and I knew this was no werewolf. I wouldn't even have a million years have said this was a werewolf, or even a dog, even though my brother kept saying, you know, I think it's like a German shepherd. It was, if you had not seen the head, you would have said it was a very hairy wild man, but having seen that head and the tuss on the ears and everything, there's a little bit.

No way. That was a man. No way it was a human at all. It was about 30 years after that. I was talking to my dad. And he grew up in logging camps, mainly around Mineral, Washington. I don't know if you know where that is. that drowned out Rainier area. His dad was a railroadman, and they logged, loaded the trains, and pulled them out and everything. And I mentioned to him, I said, Dad, did Bruce ever tell you anything about that camping trip in Arkansas and went to him? We came home early, you know, and Charlie, my husband was really sick. And he said, well, he did say something about it. He said that it was a bad camp out, and the whole thing was bad, and there was a very large creature.

and rock throwing. And he had asked my dad, I guess, about, you know, can a bear throw, do they scoop gravel at you, you know, and throw things? And dad said that when he was growing up in those logging camps around Mount Rainier, that he was told as a little kid, like six, seven or so, you never went out into the tree line. You always stay close to the camp.

You just did not step into the tree line because the boss of the woods would come and get you or the old man of the woods. That's what he called. He said, they'll take you as a slave or they'll eat you. And he said, the men work in the camps would tell these stories and he would listen to him. When they thought he was asleep, he'd be listening to him.

And he said, they're cannibals, you know. And I said, but, Dad, I don't think what we saw was one of them, you know. And he said, but there are cannibals in the woods. And he was a totally serious military, retired, military man. I'm totally serious. For me to hear him say that, I was like, what? Is this my dad?

He's a drill instructor, a survival trainer. For him to say that, I was just like, okay. Yeah. And he said, that's why when we go in the woods, we make lots of noise. And I thought, well, yeah, because of the bear and everything, he's, no, I'm not afraid of bears. Nope. No.

And that's why I taught you guys how to set up a camp. Never leave your back to this and blah, blah, blah. And after he told me all that, I was thinking about it. And you know exactly how he camped. We camp in a perfect not way to camp. The way he thought is not to. We were back to the wall. And if there were one or two or more of those creatures and they'd wanted to, I'm sure they'd have had us.

Because we were in that little horseshoe. It was like a setup. And I remember hearing another one of your guests talking and saying that he felt like he'd been set up. Had we known there was an old man of the woods or a boss of the woods or a cannibal there, we never would have pulled in there in first place, and we would have parked differently, secondarily, and we would have gone in with weapons. Wouldn't it take an infant to infants with us and a sick man? We were like prey.

the weak, the young, the old days, they were just sitting there. And the more I thought about it, as I was writing it out, I was like, oh, you did absolutely everything you never wanted to do. And I often wondered about the people who bugged out and left their pop-up camper there. I know they left because of that. There's no two ways about it. They left right during this incident.

You know, I often wondered what happened to them. Because that creature, we saw the shadow, before we knew what it was, we saw the shadow go behind our van and went down there. The next thing we know, off to our far left, so he must have circled around the front, got to that lower left leg of the horseshoe, but he started down the ridge. So that's when I started thinking maybe there was two of them.

One that was coming down the ridge and one that was already down there. When you were describing the hitting your van, I almost wonder if it came up and it slapped your van or it banged on your van. It wasn't a rock. It was actually one coming up. That's what you know. That's an open-handed slap. That's what we thought after the guys got out and looked and there was absolutely no damage.

and that was just impossible to us that there was no damage because the impact was like a meteorite. You know what I mean? There had to be damage, and there was not a dent, not a scratch, nothing. So you're right, it was like an open-handed slap and run. I know a lot of the flute players talk about the rock throwing as being playful, but, you know, in your situation it's not – actually, I can't think of any situation. It seems like it's playful.

But it just seems like the same behavior over and over and over again that we hear. It's a challenge. Yeah, it's absolutely a challenge. I mean, it was obviously a challenge. It was trying to provoke, you know, you into an accident, and you guys left, which was, I think, the right course of action in that case. On the nose that you said wasn't really like a snout, like a dog snout. Was it remotely like a baboon type?

nose. You know, I didn't see it well enough. I really can't say. And you know the drawing that I sent you? The picture of it coming down the hill, that's mainly what I saw. I drew the close-up after what my husband and my brother said. They're the ones who saw that face. I saw the face of the smaller drawing of it in the background.

So that nose in the background, it's just... You know, I noticed it was different. It was a box on the face. Kind of protruding. Yeah, protruding. But not coming to a point and not having a snout like a pig. I drew what they told me. And it was kind of an elongated, well, like if you took a man's nose and upper lip

and puffed it out about two and a half, three, four inches, and squared it off at the end. Kind of like a bamboo Yeah, so Yeah, not Ape-ish But when you see those baboons With a great big

bulb of nose I don't know what kind of Ape it is But it comes out and comes to a bulb If that was squared off That would be what I would guess I think that's the

Proboscis monkey Yeah, you're right You're right If it wasn't quite that long and if it was squared off, not bulbous at the end, it definitely had hair on the sides of this nose, like a dog, you know, really short, because you could see the hair glistened.

And it was unusual hair. It was like a German shepherd's hair, where it started out dark at the body and then got light at the tips, because it really, you can see it move. You can see his muscles move, and when the waves, the muscles move to tips would sparkles. Yeah, I was going to say a lot of your descriptions is the same descriptions that will and I get as far as what the dog man looks like.

And they tend to be more violent or it seems like the encounters that we get from them is they tend to be a little bit more violent or a little bit more aggressive than your typical Sasquatch like we haven't here in the Pacific Northwest. Yeah. But a lot of your descriptions are right on though, exactly what I've heard. Wow. Well, it's kind of reassuring, you know, to know that... Yeah, and people are really just starting to open up about this particular type of creature. We get a lot of the type, of course, the type one, the Patterson type, Sasquatch, and the type two. But this one is something that people, you know, since we've been talking about,

people are starting to open up a little more about these. I would think it's easier to misidentify as something else. Yeah, absolutely. So you just kind of don't want to think. Is that what got it? Yeah, that's definitely, you know, Bigfoot's bad enough, but if I see something like this that's different, you know, you really want to suppress. Exactly.

It's funny. Will and I were just joking about that. We're like, you know, Sasquatch is bad enough. This Dogman thing really creeps the hell out of us. It does. I don't know why, but, well, because Sasquatch is more elusive and like you said, it isn't always on the attack, but this thing was always on the attack. He was always aggressive.

He was, and he wasn't shy. He came down that side of that hill and he didn't care if we had the car lights on or, you know what I mean? He wasn't retiring back into the bushes so we wouldn't see it. He was definitely on the attack. He was on the march and he just, you know, and his head was, another thing was his head turned. I heard a lot of your guests say that, you know, the head doesn't turn, the whole body turned. This definitely had a twitchy head. His head was twitching like an animal.

The typical Sasquatch, you know, the type ones, and I think the type 2 also, like a gorilla or body, say we do with our neck. Right. And that makes sense. And I always knew that that was very different, too. And I kept thinking, golly, maybe it was an anomaly, you know, just a really bad mix of genes out there, you know, that, wow. And when I saw, after I looked at these sites, you know, the Michigan, or no, is it Wisconsin or Michigan, anywhere, it's a Midwest thing. I wondered, have you guys heard of these out here in the Pacific Northwest? Do people report them everywhere?

No, it typically seems to be within a 500-mile range of the Mississippi River. That would make sense. This would be really close in there. Right, right. your dad mentioned the term boss of the woods and I you know I've heard so much over my many years involved in this that I tend to forget things and like you said you know sometimes when you're writing down something your memory gets jogged and you jogged my memory with that term and I've known about that term for a long time but when I was growing up I was familiar with new a lot of logging families

and I remember hearing on and off you know some of the men used that term but I just thought you know as a Did you think, oh, that's just, you know, the boss of logging crew? But they would use the term boss of the woods, and I never knew. I never occurred to me. Yeah, dad just absolutely just blew my mind. He just said, well, you know. And, you know, those bloggers, they never talked about those things to outsiders. No.

Again, you know, they would think you were drinking. Or, you know, you just, prove it. You know, unless you had proof, you just. I don't think he would ever have mentioned it, but he clearly said, you know, they're the boss of the woods, and that's what they told us. Stay away, the boss of the woods. And the funniest thing I was going to say is,

he said, Orde'll take you as a slave. Ordle just eat you. And I thought, what would they do? How do you slave for a Sasatch? I don't want to know. That may have come from the Indians. Oh. But it's probably more likely

maybe would eat you. Yeah, that's what I think. Yeah, the slave part would have been the good ending. Yeah, but, you know, years later, I'm thinking, well, what a satchatch? What does he need a slave for?

You know, but I remember, I wanted to mention other people saying that they don't like dark windows. Was it you, Wes, that was saying that? You don't like the windows at night? No, no, I think it was our last, yeah, it was the last guest we had on

and he didn't like, he didn't like, eating like windows at night, dark windows. And that really struck me because I think, looking back, I think that's when it started for me. I don't, oh, those dark windows are creepy. Well, you know, after I had my first windows, yeah. It's a very vulnerable feeling. You're just like, okay, if I see it, then what?

It's a feeling like you're on the inside of the fishbowl. Yeah, that's what it is. I'm in the zoo. Yeah, exactly. You say that you believe the wildlife is getting bolder. Do you think that then these North American apes are getting bolder? Yeah, I think so. I mean, our behavior has changed a great deal from, you know,

look what people were doing 30-plus years ago. I mean, I remember as a kid taking my 22 or 12-gauge out, you know, and shooting birds or whatever, my dad would tell me to shoot whatever animals came in the yard because they might be rabbit. Right, exactly. And people kind of stopped doing that. It became a thing that was sort of a negative if you went out and did it. So now animals aren't afraid of people.

It's a really good point. You're very right. That's probably, we've got a lot to do with it. But it does seem like there are more reported sightings, and I don't think it's just because people think it's okay to do it now. I think it's because they're either bolder or there are more of them or people have infringed on their territory and now are seeing more of them?

Well, there's a combination area, and like the numbers, I think the numbers are actually increasing. And the reason I say that is because, now you're in Oregon, right? Yeah. Now, you know about, you've seen plenty of logged areas

and everybody, every thing. Oh, yeah. We have them all right around. It's just gone. Well, look at all the brush that grows up after they've logged an area. Yep.

All the leaky brush that normally wouldn't be there because of the timber would block the sunlight out for that stuff. Yep. Well, that stuff has created so much food for deer and other animals that eat that kind of plant life. I don't know about Oregon, but I don't want to Washington. And I'm sure it's probably the same. They've called the deer population an infestation. It is.

It is an infestation. And there's just a huge population boom in those animals. We know if deer have exploded in population numbers like that. So have all the other animals, which means the predators. That makes sense. And that's why we're seeing more cougars and things like that, so the Sasqu has to be corresponding also. Yeah, because I remember my dad saying, you know,

when an area is over predated, the predators drop in number. Right. It's just a natural thing. They just drop in number. So that's the opposite is true. And we certainly have a bazillion deer, an elk. I mean, no lack of wildlife. Anyone who lives in the northwest can see the logged areas.

and not the fresh ones, but the ones that have been, you know, growing up for a little while, how thick they are with leafy vegetation. Oh, yeah. And it just makes all the, you know, the herbivore populations explode. Yeah, that really, that really, that room's true. I see it here, that's for sure. There's a lot of open meadow land now, and it's blackberries and shrubs. And then there you go, you have more berries.

And very easy, pream. Those areas also make better hiding places for, like, deer and such. Because it's harder for predators to get in at them, number one, without making noise, and just the tangle of brush is harder for them to get through. So they have an easier chance to escape. So it's done a lot of things to the animal population. So I really think that the Sasquatch population has to be getting larger. Yeah, it's just totally off balance.

The whole, this whole talking about this thing, When I wrote you, I told you it was almost cathartic. I mean, it was almost like reliving the whole thing. I mean, I felt wiped out when I got done writing it. It was just like an emotional, there it's out, you know. It's a relief, right. Yeah, a relief. Yeah.

And I can tell you how many people, and oftentimes their jobs or some exposure, but, you know, just getting it, but I think it's easier for somebody else that's had an encounter. Oh, most definitely. rather than somebody who hasn't because they can't really relate to it. Yeah. Or, you know, I picture they just be nodding their head saying, really, really, really. And you don't know. Now, we've had very different types of it.

It's almost when you talk to somebody else that's had an encounter, it's sort of like that instant rapport. You can just tell, you know, and you start to experience. Yeah, I saw this or this happened. It is a release, though. Really. Well, when I heard West and Woody's account, I remember really identifying with that emotion.

Really, I could just put myself in their place, and I thought, you know, this was not a fuzzy, warm. I'm just very glad I wasn't in their shoes. No kidding. And that's exactly, you know, how we felt. We felt that same confusion freezing. Like I said, we went from one second to the next, just trying to figure out what the last second was. And we were just literally just frozen, just going, what is that? set, what's happening now?

What do we do? And the terror, you know, it was a long 30 minutes. And it's lasted 42 years. It was a terrifying thing. It was not a fun thing.

No, I don't think they're ever a fun experience. I know, and I see everybody, you know, you see the ads and things and the shows where they're racing around the woods hoping to find one, hoping to see one, and I'm thinking. I'm hoping they don't find me. I think there's a bunch of damn cooks would grow out and act like that.

I do too. I think that's insane, you know. That's a very, it's a very naive approach. That's it. That's the word for it. It's very naive. Very naive. I really wanted to thank you for coming on, sharing your encounter with us.

Well, I appreciate the opportunity to you guys, and if it helped somebody else, I mean, if someone else out there is saying, I don't know what I saw, but it wasn't that, you know, maybe they'll get that moment of aha that I got. Well, great encounter. Well, thanks a lot, guys. I really enjoy the program. Oh, thank you so much. And I'll be listening.

All right, Pam. Well, you have yourself a great night. Thank you, guys. Thanks, Pam. Bye-bye. Well, she did a good job. Yeah, it was a good encounter. It was a scary encounter.

It was. It was very good. One thing it made me wonder is almost if that thing was lowering trying to lure them out. You know, I tend to think that's what was going on. I mean, trying to get the two guys to follow it or follow. Because, you know, the minute they stepped out, the rocks came. And we've heard that before where these things have tried to lead, you know, people off. you know, probably into some sort of ambush.

I mean, the slap on the van could have been, you know, that initial, that sort of a challenge. That was that first challenge. And then, you know, when you guys saw, you know, all these elements, we've heard these things many times. Yeah. I know once you first mentioned it slapping, or it sounds like a softball side thing hitting the side of the van.

The first thing I thought of was, I bet it's slap in the side of the van. Like, you hear them slap the side of houses and bang on the house. Yeah, exactly. That's a good point. We've heard that how many times now? Yeah, every time. I mean, it's so common and it's unbelievable. But, you know, these dogmen, I mean, that one

wasn't quite as, didn't turn into a violent encounter. It's probably because they left. But a lot of these dogmen encounters seem to be more violent. Yeah, that's what seems to be the norm on these. It's not, never just, you know, it always involves some sort of a violent

situation or at least leading. Yeah, like they're coming for a fight. Right, right. Yeah. Makes you wonder what the other people saw when they took off. Yeah, and they left their camper. That's something we didn't ask her. Well, she didn't know.

They left before anybody came back. So I wonder if they came back for their camper. Yeah, who knows? That's crazy, though, that they would just take off. That's fear right there. That's not... That's primal fear. That's primal fear right there.

When you get in your truck, you just drive off, leave your camper. Yeah, absolutely. Well, thanks for joining us again, everyone. We'll have more great guests next week, and join us again for SASGuard's Chronicles. The country faster than the coronavirus and wagering week is your antidote. I'm Tom Martin and I'm a veteran sports analyst and respected sports handicapper who will help build ESPN's brand. I've been recognized and awarded by Pro Football Weekly and Gaming Today magazine as the honest handicapper.

Let the other guys give you the same old boring sports talk with the same tired storylines. We'll give it to you straight here every Friday on Wagering Week. Don't gamble with other podcasts. Sports Garden Network's wagering week, help your bottom line.