Sasquatch Chronicles - SC EP:335 Encounter on Harstine Island

Episode Date: June 20, 2017

Rich Germeau revisits his November 11, 2010 encounter with one or more Bigfoot on Harstine Island near Shelton, Washington. This encounter culminated a five year search for Bigfoot with the Olympic Project, The Sasquatch Genome Project, and independently. Rich has an impressive background and has been looking into this subject for several years, and I'm glad he has agreed to come on the show.

Black thing go from left to right, and I thought, I'm going to die out here and no one's ever going to know. I couldn't believe what my eyeballs were showing me. I'll never forget how evil the eyes were. It was horrible. I mean, I've never seen nothing that evil. It ran towards me at a rate that I can't even explain, turned and stared at me. And this look of, I just want to kill you. I want to say it was human, but it wasn't.

He was yelling out, maybe grab a gun, grab a gun. I was like, for what? He said, just grab a gun. And there's footprints all the way to the door of my house. It had went inside my garage all the way to the door. 9-1-1. What are you reporting? Get somebody out here. What's going on now, sir? That son of a bitch is about 6'9, I don't know.

Do you see him now, sir? Yes, I'm looking right at him. Uh-oh. You're listening to Sasquatch Chronicles. Check us out online at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. If you've had an encounter, email me. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. Welcome to the show, everyone.

Thanks for being here tonight. Got a great show plan for you tonight. I'm going to be speaking to Rich, who is a former law enforcement officer and a Sasquatch investigator. He looked into this for many years. and actually had two sightings. He'll talk about those tonight. And then he'll talk about his research

and why he kind of stopped looking into this field. Very, very interesting stuff. If you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. And I want to thank the audience. Thanks for all the nice comments from the members on Sasquatch Chronicles.com. I cracked a rib.

More or less, it's a hairline crack, but it's the way the doctor explained it to me, it's like a dislocated rib. The muscles actually rolled over on top of the rib. Anyway, it's pretty painful. And without, actually, that hurts to laugh. But, you know, I wanted to get a show out to you guys. And I've been talking to Rich, and Rich was kind enough to come on the show. So let's jump into it tonight.

I want to welcome Rich to the show. Rich, thanks so much for coming on. No problem. If you would for the audience, would you mind starting from the beginning and talk about your first encounter, kind of walk the audience into what happened to you, what you saw? I'll just start kind of from the very beginning of the whole thing. Well, 80s and the 90s, I watched, you know, unsolved mysteries and things of that nature and like with Leonard Nimoy and everything and saw the Satsquatch stuff and the Patterson Gimland film.

and I always thought how great it would be if that could be real and thought about, you know, what if, but just because of the fact of everything is and everything that's here and it's kind of, you know, really, as far as large animals, believing in them or anything in the year 2000. I had been on my way into work that night. It was in July. I was coming down the road into my office,

and I was in my patrol car and everything because we took our cars home. and stuff. And it was in a really weird place too. Top, you, and there's first beach trailhead, which it's the name of a beach on the coast. And you pass that, and then you come on to the reservation, and you go past a couple of housing areas. And then you come around the corner, and then you have the second beach trailhead to another beach. And as you circle the corner further, you come down into the main village area. But before you get there, you go past the really brushy area or used to at that time.

And on the left is the ocean, and the beach kind of ends out and pinnacles that are out there, and it's really brushy up the hillside where eventually it merges up into the trail that leads to second beach. And what happens towards Lonesome Creek, some Creek there, inside of a chain-link fence, like a six-foot fence, and that was on the right side. On the left side is where Lonesome Creek cross. Well, Lonesome Creek crosses the road. from under that fence and then it comes out.

And beyond that on the left is the Lonson Creek store and there's a campground there. But it's all really brushy in where the creek comes out and then going to the south and there's this huge swath of really thick brush where it kind of leads its way back up into, there's ways to get maneuver through it and get up around the edge where you can kind of get back up into the timber again. And while I was coming down the hill and this thing, some creek, comes out probably a little bit south, of it. And I was about 75 yards from it, and I kind of immediately hit the brakes, because it came right out of the brush, behind the store, or towards me from the store, maybe 100 yards from that

entrance, and to see anything. And then it hit the very, on the fish hatchery, on the salmon berries. And I didn't. That was car in the road. And then I kind of slow rolled up, and it was long gone by the time I even made it. The shock anyways, I don't know how long. Yeah, and as a police officer, you can't write this up and, you know, or, I mean, talk to anyone about this, could you, at the time? Oh, yeah. I can write in mine because I remember very vividly, you know, in this huge, hairy, you know, thing on two legs, it kind of walks like a man, but not really. It kind of glided across the road, is how I describe it in a glide because it was so, you know, and its head didn't bob or anything. It's just kind of glided. It just, like, it didn't even seem like it was in a real big hurry.

it just me didn't do anything and so I'm sitting and I'm trying to the gnome box is something that I know because first thing it's a well it's a man well no it's not because it's way bigger and it's all one color it's not wearing any clothes

and it's really broad too to the chest so what can it be you know it's not a bear and and I knew what it was I mean I could I knew I knew what it was and I didn't it just it's quick and it's It's like traumatic kind of at the same time.

Yeah, it is. It's something that's not supposed to be real that you just happen to see this thing walk across. Perfectly daylight. I think it's somewhere around 6 to 7 p.m. And it's warm and sunny out that day. So I continue to drive on, and I'm kind of shook it up. I'm really excited, and there's a deputy in there.

His name, I shouldn't. And I came in, and they obviously could tell something was what happened to you. And I said, I just seen a bigfoot across the road. And they laughed to me and shit. And I said, no, I'm serious. I just, you know, the deputy that was there, he kind of jokes with me a little bit, you know, razz me a little. In the incident, like three weeks. What was that incident? There was a big foot allegedly seen down there and then a bunch of tracks and some stuff that happened at night. It was pretty, it was a big deal at that time. Quite a few bigfoot researchers

went out there to check it out. Oh, I get you. I guess. And they found tracks and all kinds of different stuff. They found the betting side, I think. And you can look it up online. I think you can read about it still. There's articles in the newspapers and stuff about it. You know, the sheriff's office, he was screwing with me. He was what he was doing. He was saying the sheriff's office wants to know about this stuff, and you need to write a memo. So I wrote a memo. I gave it to him. I don't know if he turned it in or anything. But I did also do the cat entry into our computer about what happened. And one of my coworkers was too scared and he didn't find any.

I changed my pretty much all I did. He's deep dark. You feel like I can be watched quite often. Oh, yeah. A cat or something like that and you don't really think that much about it. And after I thought of Bigfoot, though, I didn't really do that that much anymore because all of a sudden, you know, you see something that logically, it's humanoid intelligence to you just based on what it looks like.

and I just kind of felt like intimidated and not very safe just having that knowledge because you know I was in the rough and you know why haven't I been taught about this and if that makes any sense yeah that makes a lot of sense and there's a thing I think when most people see these things they have that type of reaction I mean I've had it I've had hundreds of witnesses say the exact same thing I think it's a shock of seeing something that isn't supposed to be there And the fact that you wrote a memo on it, I commend you on that, because I have had law enforcement on before in the past. And there seems to be kind of a thing where you don't talk about it, at least with the few police officers I've had. There's a, you know, kind of a, you don't really talk about it publicly anyway.

No, that's normal. You know, I was never shy about it because I'm just like that. But, I mean, that was on duty, you know, and I saw it. So, yeah. I'm going to own it. I'm not going to, I'm not embarrassed to talk about it. Yeah, and I commend you on that. And so how many years later was your second sighting?

I was in 2010. Okay, so 10 years later. And I can tell you kind of like how I got into that and everything. Yeah, please do. Please do. Well, in Greatview, Washington at that time. And in 2008, I met Derek Randalls through, told him that I had a big foot in a while about it.

ended up, we ended up forming a relationship and we started. And then we had a few people in that group and I think it was a BFR, or vocalizations for sure. He came up from Portland and he did some vocalizations up on him. We got a return that I thought sounded pretty good and there's some argument between that. Time goes on, you know, we end up fell behind the house and pretty regularly because the people were heard vocalizations and had seen it.

And we put cameras out and stuff and didn't yield anything, but we did find a few impressions around there and Derek even recovered a couple. These people moved out of this house. Tineken in it. I knew it was a good area and absolutely nothing happened. It was a big waste. I mean, it was just dead, nothing, no more activity. They abandoned the site and locate travel routes and stuff based on terrain.

And then historical siding data, specific areas, specifically in areas where terrain dictated movement. Trying to find these spots and I had like 50 cameras. And I had a few out west. on the other side, but not that much, mostly Hamahama and DeWato, and then a few other locations around me because we know they're there, and it's smaller, and there's tons of sightings on that island. I started going back there.

We stopped in there at work sometimes, and I could check my cameras when I was on patrol. Five cameras back in there, and back in, like, end of 2009, 2010. So, in 2010, back in there, I guess, again. So I set these cameras out, and I just kept going in there about once a week, And I put toys out on stumps and stuff like that, see if anything moved. I never really saw much in there or anything. But we kind of pinned it down in that specific area between, like, October or anything like that. And I think like November, like the day, I had to pull campaign signs or something like that.

So I was driving around pulling campaign signs. And I just happened to have my key ring with me, for the cameras that are close to the road because I was here. And I didn't pack a gun that day either, which is like the first time looking for big of it without a gun. And it's not because I never carried a gun for them, per se. But when I was doing Bigfoot related stuff, I'd be going. Yeah. So it's a good idea to have something, you know, because you can break a leg or anything and be stuck somewhere. A lot of times, felt stoned back in here.

And I decided to go in here this day. And it was really odd. I had my keys with me. So I was going to go check these two close cameras in here that I have. So I pulled in, and you know, unless you want me to tell it again now. Yeah, if you would. I'd tell it for that. Because not everyone has seen it.

You can watch the video interview that Rich did. On Sasquatch Chronicles.com. I have a link to the YouTube channel. But yeah, don't leave us hanging, man. Okay. And immediately when I pulled into this spot, in the same spot I park at every time I go in, it's between I'll tell you on North Island Drive.

There's an area right between there. So I've had a feeling like I shouldn't be there. Like, there's no reason for it, but I just felt like it was not a good day to be there. and I should just probably go home, but I paid no attention to it because it made no sense and I was there,

and I was going to do what I was going to do, so I just went anyway. So I got in the woods, you know, and it was kind of, it was real quiet that day, no birds or anything. Strange, there was not a few periods

that feel more and more uncomfortable. Like, this is the one word that I can use that. I mean, it's the only thing that makes sense. Yeah, the only thing that makes sense, really compared to that,

the feeling that I had, But it's a feeling I've never had since. It just feels like almost the whole world is on you and pushing on you kind of. Standing still, time is not exist. It's just a not existing. It's just really bad. And as I'm out there, I'm getting this feeling, but I'm like, what is this? I don't know. There's no cause for this.

I don't understand why it's happening. I'm just going to ignore it. So I go to my first camera, and right when I get to it, I can see that there's like a big impression next to it. It hasn't sunk in or anything into the soil, but it just has squished down the, I could see it, and off to the side of the camera. So obviously I see that camera and I'm like, oh, you know, I'm kind of excited. That's the first thing I'd really seen since I've been back.

So I grabbed the car out of that camera and rearm it towards my vehicle, but then I take a left when I come to the opening and go to the next camera, which is kind of only by about 75 yards. So you can hear cars and stuff drive by, and it's kind of in an alder. bottom. You can see it on the YouTube video. Kind of a game trail that goes. Two or three trails intersect in this one spot. My right and to my left is just this clump of cedars.

And once you get in there, but it looks brushy from just more alder trees. And it goes back about 80, 90 yards. And then there's a creek that wraps around to the creek. The keys, like 25 keys on this ring. A couple different rings with keys. And them bungee on the tree too. I just haven't

so you can't access the car. I've gone through these keys. and as I don't like I shouldn't be there. You should just go home. You shouldn't be here. You shouldn't be here. It's like my intuition is telling me this, and I'm not paying attention to it. And then I start to hear like,

period, like something's purposely snapping twigs. Off to my northwest. The cedars over there, too, and you can't see inside in between me and that. I mean, I could see all the way there. And it was just, it was maybe raindrops, but it's, you know, and so it's making me more and more edgy,

like something's going on here. And at the same time, you're having this big buildup in you of some reason you're having these out of context feelings that are coming out of nowhere that are making you feel a certain way you shouldn't feel that bad it should be pretty safe yeah you know through the ring and I'm getting really nervous at this point and then I go through the phone bat yeah of course yeah like blow into your hand yeah close I heard that coming from the same place that the twigs are so I know something's over there now and my first thought it was a deer the deer do that you know and it and

there and something like that. So expecting to see, hoping to see a deer. And I keep going through the keys. And I'm, to me, because I'm under stress and I'm, like, anxiety because of the last key. And I made up my mind already that I'm out of there. I'm not even going to go through this again. Because feeling good, I just need to get out of there.

I mean, something's telling me, my gut's telling me to get out of there. Pull the cable lock off, and I push OK on the camera. You have to do that, and then I don't know the sequence, but you push okay. So I got to the point where I had thrown in the weather, then you have to push. And right at that point, leave. As soon as I did that, I hear

like an exhale mixed into one. Like, I could draw an out, though, with the sequence. We never saw hammers and nerve a long time, lots of them. And did get coyotes, did get deer, but that was it. The occasional eagle eaten bait, too, that we had left,

and I could, like, hear the breath, you know. And dreading what I'm about to see, kind of. I can't end up in me. I'm over the peak of the whole end up to be. I bet. Nerves are shot at this point, I would imagine. Oh, yeah, I'm shitting my pants. I can see it under the top.

There's this thing standing next to those all the tree like 20 yards in front of me, just standing right next to it, right in front of me. And like I just lifted my head. And it's just standing. I can sense like it knows I'm going to see it. And it kind of starts to duck. And it gets down. In one motion, it ducks into a squatting kind of position,

like a third of its height down. And then it shuffles kind of ball facing me really fast across this opening. It's like 10 meters. It looked black, really bushy, super wide shoulders. I mean, I'd say eight foot tall, at least four feet. I was dead. I was on the SWAT team and stuff like that, and I've been a cop a long time, so I'm always thinking, going towards my car, was flanking me. And it moves so fast situation and assessing the threat level of everything that was happening.

Size and it's speed-fied the threatening feeling. Because you obviously, I mean, I knew the first thought, I remember this vividly, like, first thought in my mind is like, is like, I got to get out of here, or I'm going to die, essentially. That's what was in me right away. I needed to get out of here now. And I thought, I can't go towards my car because this thing's flanking me. It just took off towards my car. So I got to go straight to the road.

That's the safest thing for me to do. So seeing the cable lock lane on the ground, because I had held together long enough to, even though I'm scared shitless right now, I'm not wasting this opportunity. The thing's right behind me, and I got a game camera that's armed right here right now. I mean, I got to get it armed, and then I got to get out of here. So that's what I did. And I remember seeing the cable lock laying on the ground, and I'm thinking,

I ain't locking this thing. I'm out of here. I left the lock on there, and I took off running for the road. I went right through the Blackberry bushes, and I got to the road safe, you know. And I was thinking of my turn. I thought, you know, I can make it three steps before the things on my back. That's how fast it moved 20 yards away from me. Oh, yeah.

That was my thought. So I thought if it comes after me, there's no way I'm going. Yeah. I made it back to my car. I broke into tears on my way home, drove home. I walked in the door. My wife saw me. She said, you're white as a ghost.

What happened to you? And people and telling it up in me. And it was built up. I didn't know what was going on. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I do. And, you know, I've interviewed a lot of different witnesses that talk about that, that feeling of something is not right.

I shouldn't be here. I mean, I felt it before. You just, you want to leave. And I think it bothers you so much. because there's no reason for that feeling. You know, it's just this unnatural feeling that comes over you, and there's really no threat present, and you just have this really unnatural feeling.

Do you think if you would have stood there longer, do you think it might have gotten confrontational? It sounds like it moved on you really quick. I don't know. You know, I think that there was, I think that that whole thing, I'll be honest with you, I think that whole incident was they knew I was going to be there. I mean, I have five cameras.

These things are in close proximity to them when they have to move through this area, which is a lot often. And they were, I think they were pissed off at me because I was going in there once twice a week. You know, this is a small area. They can't really avoid me that much. I had to be in this spot or why they liked it, but they had been there a long time. We had for 10 years. We had at least eight or 10 different ones at the location crossing from one side to the other. Just in the spot at this time of year for some reason, and they did not want to go in here.

these things have to break from what they're doing. They can't relax. They have to count for me the whole time, you know, and they were getting sick of it. And so how better way. I mean, they obviously knew I was coming that day because they were ready for me, you know. I mean, it kind of felt like, well, they used a lot of different things against me. I had Emperstown used against me to try to, but it was in there for some reason from the moment that I pulled in, you know, and then it was built up and built up until the peak of the incident.

that was which the growl and the sighting, and then me feeling like I was going to die, you know, I don't think that was random either because I had gone through this in my head, you know, a lot of times like, what am I going to do if I see one? Because that's kind of the goal again is to see another one. And at that time, it was to get evidence to prove it to the world. You know, that's why I was involved in the DNA study and doing the Olympic project research and all that. It was, you know, satisfy my own curiosity, what was that I needed to know to some degree, but mostly it was, you know, like whatever challenge and an opportunity to get someplace.

I thought about the scenario lots of times because I thought, you know, it was a good chance I'm going to run into one again. That's what you should look at it. At least that's the way I had thought about before that that would be a really big opportunity because the next thing beyond that may be where it gets even more, where you keep going back and doing research, right? But this incident, this whole thing was not meant to be that way. It was meant to make me stop. and I was scared shit with, like I said, afterwards and pretty shucking up and stuff.

And immediately it thought went in my mind, I mean, this is dangerous. I'm not. Logic said, and look, you've got an opportunity now. You've come so far. They've seen you, you've seen them. You need to take advantage of this. Did go back after that, and I tried to leave food out. I put a bucket up next to where I seen the one and couldn't see after originally in there,

and I'd bring food and put it in there, and they never took nothing from me. No food. They didn't want anything. They'd bark at me like dogs occasionally. I heard that two or three times in there where they would mimic dogs from inside where I couldn't see. And they didn't sound like dogs, really. They sound like people trying to bark like dogs. And then they would set up other dogs around and they would start parking.

And I had one jump out of a tree next to me there one time. What time a day was that, Rich, when that happened? Late morning. Late morning, okay. Yeah, it's... I mean, this was to the spot where I would only walk to. a few times I would go in there and they would just be there. They would make themselves known, but they wouldn't get at me or out of a tree or run through the brush or whatever.

Yeah, no, and I believe you, I'm just saying, I guess for the audience out there, Hirstine Island is notorious for sightings. In the very short amount of years, I haven't been looking into this as long as Rich has, but in the very short amount of time, I've looked into this. I've had several really good reports off of Hirstein Island. And I wanted to ask you, though, Rich, when you were, do you think that feeling that you were having, and I don't want to cut up your story, but I wanted to ask you this, the feeling that you were having when you first got there, do you think that's something the Sasquatch put off, or do you think that's something that we have, perception-wise, that? I think that, you know, I think this, you know, I always followed my gut, to pay attention to it. But in this specific incident, my gut was so strong to the point that I ignored it because it was.

was abnormal. If that makes sense to you? It does. It does. Okay. And so it came out of nowhere and there was, I'd been in this place a bazillion times and it was daylight and it was like probably 11 in the morning. A great morning, I would say, she didn't be there. So I'm positive that whatever the feeling was was projected into me for a specific reason. No, I understand. I understand. I mean, I don't have any doubt in that, especially what I'd say in the interview, but, you know, about getting woken up at very vivid, it's blank and ready to, you know, I wake up at like 3 a.m. in the morning, and it happened every night for like two months, and it would be, this impression would tell me you need to stop looking, and I'd be like, well, what, trying to do it at that point,

but even though something was telling me not to, I kept doing it anyways, this time and effort invested in touch, not going to give it up. I have all this equipment and stuff like that. by people or things. I just, you know, I'm not going to allow myself to be intimidated by someone or something else. So I kept in defiance, I guess. You'd say I kept doing it. And so, I mean, whatever, from being dead asleep, not dreaming,

and you wake up and just on, first thing in your mind is these three things, bam, bam, bam, bam. You know, and you, like, or like, what the? And then I would think to myself, why am I waking up every morning at three out of a dead sleep? And I wouldn't be wake up nervous or anything. I would just wake up wide awake from a dead sleep at 3 a.m. You know, I'm doing this anyways.

Logically, if something's telling you something, but you don't know why, you're going to ask, well, what happens if I continue to do this anyways? Yeah, of course. And then, I mean, nothing popped into my head. I mean, I wouldn't think of any reason what would happen to me. I mean, because I was an investigator by trade, not just by hobby. You know, I was a detective at this time, too.

That's what I did, you know. So I went out, you know, after that had stopped. I had one scream at the end of my driver when I came home from work on swing shift as a deputy. And like 20 feet away, like full vault, we didn't have to see you go home or follow you. And so it makes you really start to wonder, you know, what are you dealing with here? You know, it's something you run into that gets seen once in a while out in the woods. These things have other abilities that are kind of, you know, otherworldly type abilities, you know. I guess you could say something to that effect, quantum physics.

I don't know. Yeah. But it starts to make you be concerned a little bit that, you know, okay, I start thinking, because I'm a real, look, what's the level of threat, whatever I'm doing? Because it's just, I'm trained that way, and just how my mind works. And I start to think about it. Well, for something that it's not what I originally thought it was, but I don't know what it is. What did you think it originally was?

Oh, I was positive. It was an ape or a relicominee. I was more in the Camporella common, even in the early part about any of that. I never really look into things. Silver research, all you have to do is look at the maps and the sighting density and everything, you know, and then come to the, it doesn't make sense

for it to be some American ape that we just don't know about. You know, there's technology in the woods these days and technology and everything else. There's no way to keep it to see where. There's no way to hide it. Yeah. If it's just normal, if it's normal flesh and blood intelligence, you know, you know, and not, not be seen regularly.

I mean, do you think are in the Cascade Mountain? No, I mean, there may be, maybe there's 20 or 30, and they get seen on game cameras. Yeah, that's true. At Mount Adams, there's, you know, at least a few dozen. And with Sasquatch, obviously, when you look at the BFRO database, I mean, you look at flats, what's published that never get out, a lot of them don't get authenticated or witnesses.

or their bogus stories, so they just don't get published. But, you know, a lot of them are still good, good, legit encounters, but the people back out or for whatever reason they're not published. And so you just see these lists, and there's new ones coming in all the time. When you see the maps, they're just Washington State in general, and you start to kind of realize that it's just not like a few of these, it's not a few Sasquatches being seen all the time, because if they were that reckless, they'd be all over the game,

the 25,000 game cameras that are in, the woods of Washington State. You know what I'm saying? No, no, and I understand. I understand. And your argument's valid. There's not an intelligent answer I can give you for that because you're right. And that's something that I've recently argued is, you know, you have all these sighting reports.

You have, people have cameras. You have, I mean, it's not a rare animal like people think. It's not as rare as people think it is. There's a lot of people, yeah, a lot of people see them. them yet there's not a time and i've i've said it a million times on the show but like gary wayne when i was doing his genesis six we're talking about the nephalum he said that to me and i had no answer for him i did not have an intelligent answer to give him for that and there is something strange about these creatures i used to think it was some sort of primate you know non-human primate too as well

and the longer you get into this and i think a lot of researchers who won't even question this in the back of their mind are being very disingenuous. There's something weird going on. There's something more to these creatures than just a North American primate, non-human primate running around. There's something else going on.

And I think it goes to the cover-up. I think it goes to a lot of things, like he said, with the game cams. Well, it doesn't make logical sense because if you look at any of the maps, like the BFRA and then you look, like you can take like the Olympic Peninsula, for example. And you'll see that in every single drainage you've got sightings that are historical.

I mean, there's multiple sightings on top of each other over the years. You know, the Daka Bush, the Dosi Wallops, the Hamo, the Wainucci, the Humptool. And these are not the same Bigfoot groups in each one of these areas. That seem to have these things in them. So evasive. Why can't they be got on cameras, on game cameras and stuff? It doesn't make any sense. As long as you're dealing with something that's a normal, because there seems to be too many.

I mean, I would honestly say that, based on my experience, I bet you, Cougars are seen, or Sasquatches are probably really seen about as often as Cougars are. Maybe even more. Probably more. I would say probably more. And, you know, Coogers. I can tell you what, I put game cameras out. I had all these game cameras out in the Olympics, and I got hundreds of pictures of Cougars, but one big for it, that was it. Rich, I wanted to ask you, what do you think Sasquatch is? I want to get into the DNA side of it, too.

Before we do, just your own personal opinion on what you think Sasquatch is. And like you and I were talking the other night, there's no wrong answer. No, I mean, I don't know what it is, but I'll tell you that I was, which I do believe to be a legitimate study. I mean, I think the data is, the data is what it is. And I think who they identified like 111 separate individuals in that study. I was involved in I think the submission of like 38 samples where I think like six individuals were identified. being that you were a part of it can you tell us a little bit about it what did catch them actually find for the audience I'm sure most the audience knows but from you

being there and submitting the samples can you talk a little bit about that yeah well I'll tell you like what my relationship was was a green collar any time and so the funding for the project ended up a week so I knew every step of the way from the beginning and going before they as they were testing they were doing the new DNA and it was all being sent out to different labs who were blind testing these things, mostly forensic crime labs that did contract work or college universities. They had no idea what they were testing. They were to run these, so they did.

And through the nuclear DNA, I guess, you were going to see that you're dealing with not modern human. The mitochondrial DNA is modern human. A few, you know, rare human female from the mitochondrial DNA. So the female lineage was, but on the male side, it was something totally unknown, not in Genbank or anything. They exist anywhere in nature. The DNA strand was missing. Do you know how I'm describing it?

Like two strands that go up with the connections in between? Well, you would only have one strand, and the other half would be gone. And it wasn't due to damage or anything like that into the sample. And you would see this when you do the extensive nuclear DNA on them. And I don't know the answer to that. I mean, maybe it's because they're interdimensional, and you can't see that half of it in this dimension. I don't know.

I mean, there could be anything, but it was weird. Yeah, I think, and that's the thing with Melba's, I know she's had some different beliefs, and I know when you can't mix beliefs and science together, otherwise it becomes a muddy mess. But to give Melba for a shake, I've never actually talked to her about her DNA, so I won't speak. I don't talk to anybody about it anymore.

Well, and I won't speak poorly of it, but I find it odd that, you know, here's a respected geneticist, and people can debate that all day long. But prior to Bigfoot, she was respected. Oh, yeah. The Bigfoot world. Yeah, the Bigfoot world has a funny way of eating her own. But with Melba, she, I really wish she would come on the show and talk about what she found because I think it's fascinating what she found. Well, let me ask you.

Don't you think it would make more sense? Don't you think someone in Melba's position, she would almost have a vested interest into coming back and saying, yeah, it's an unknown primate. It's an unknown ape. It's an unknown monkey. It seems like she'd have more of a vested interest in saying that instead of saying... Well, no, because there wouldn't be the truth.

Well, exactly, my point. This point is so disgusted. Because, you know, you think, you know, you got to look at the situation with this project. And I'll tell you, she was a very... She's very credible. I mean, you know, a lot of people don't know this about her. Her main money-making job,

while before she started this project, because she was an expert witness in court at the forensic court, and she was regarded as an expert witness. She got paid to go all over the country to go do that. And now she's not credible anymore because of that. She can't do that anymore. If DNA study that's ever been done before, that has data, right?

There is actual data, nuclear data. And all these subjects are the non-genbank. and they're half human, yet you have most of the entire Bigfoot community and all of the scientific geneticians to back up the data in this thing, but that doesn't get much particularly through this thing out the window and act like it doesn't exist because that these people cannot accept. It's outside of their ability to believe. It's outside their belief system. They have too many walls built up. It's set and placed these walls that say that this is how it has to be, and the modern science application is the only way that you can come

to any conclusion related to anything, you know, and if it doesn't fit within those parameters, so you just ignore this and act like it didn't happen, and a huge piece of evidence to this whole thing, and don't take into any consideration. It's actually prove the existence of this species, I mean, ignition, I guess, right? Patterson and Gimlin film, and it took all these other, the latent fingerprint, the eyewitness accounts, the videos, and it tied it all together, and it put it on a plate and said, okay, we have DNA to back all these up and prove that this thing exists.

And everybody gave her the middle finger. And that's what happened with that. That's true. Yeah. And, you know, I think the problem, though, is rich, and I don't know if you agree with this or not, is there's a lot of these guys and gals out there that just love to call themselves a researcher.

And I think in their own life, there are nobody's, but for some reason in the big vote world, there's somebody important. And so they create this belief system instead of actually looking for real answers. Instead of, because I know when the first time I heard Melba's study, I was shocked by it.

I had to kind of step back and go, what? You know, but the more that I start talking to witnesses and the more Melbourne may not have been far off. I don't know. Well, you know, like I was saying, look, I mean, the whole, what happened with me, was a process and I came into this investigating and interviewing witnesses and especially habituations corroborate each other because they tell the same stories even though it's different

people and from a logical you apply logic to not something really fits in with a couple of sites like with gifting and stuff and spooky like I was being toyed with and point where i mean i would in locations i was researching in areas where these things were coming into tight quarters to take food or to take, to do things, and they were coming in and out of these tight spots, and there was ways that you could trap them. And I would always leave one way in and one way out to where they could avoid the camera if they wanted to, but then it would help for them to do things and not have their picture taken, but they would avoid it every time, yet they would still come in and they would in front, yet they would take something that was right next to the camera,

but out of its view. So they obviously knew what the cameras were. They must have. Let me ask you, what's some of the weirder stuff that you either heard or saw for yourself? You said you were being toyed with. What do you mean by that? Well, just when I was leaving, I was leaving gifts, and they would take things sometimes, and then sometimes they'd be gone for a month or two, and then they would come back. And this specific location, it was in Dow Mountain, and it was adjacent to the half of these people. It was a cabin that's really whipped over there, and they kept having things happen,

and this one kept looking in their windows, and they started, feeding them and they would get mind speak and these are people that seemed honest and they were they appeared to believe what they were telling you yet you didn't have the ability to really in my case but i would it to me and i didn't really believe and then so you know i'm going to find out i said you know i have was a cop this time so i'd access to the cad's database that had 15 years was so earlier so i pulled up this with circumstances or because i'll be notes in the calls because the responding deputy will put notes in or calls over like an eight or nine-year period, side and see this really tall person in their driveway that was for some

reason. And they thought it was a big burglar. Three or four of these incidents. And one of the people I was investigating with now, or not investigating, but researching or doing an investigation at this big, exciting, that they, next to this. Yeah. So I was able to corrobor legit in their stories more than likely because there were other Bigfoot reports that people didn't even know were Bigfoot reports that were from the same, never, probably what it was. Does that make sense to you?

Yeah, that does. That does. It's nice to have access to all that, too. Huh? It's nice to have access to all that, too, to kind of see that there's a history, you know? And I even went back and interviewed, because it happened to be that one deputy who was working up there on it, and he told me he remembered because it was weird when how this would happen that these people would describe this really tall guy that was all dressed in black, and that his eyes would glow amber if you shine a flashlight on him, you know? And usually humans don't do that, but he didn't put two and two together, apparently.

thought it was weird. I bet. So what happens next? Well, I end up, I researched this spot for over a year, almost two years, I think, and I started to get frustrated. I got the rocks thrown at me once. Basically, this guy took me to this spot on this property that was behind the house. It comes down through solid basalt, and it, down through this waterfall, and it's kind of like in a basalt cauldron, where it's solid rock on both sides going up the walls, and there's a couple of pools inside their six feet long and they're kind of hollowed out holes in the basalt where the and it's like 15 20 degrees cooler than anywhere else he told me it's like you know I play music down here on my flu tells me he says I think they come here when it's hot and he said

this is where I was used to men that you and these people didn't live at the house there they lived over in Seattle and this was just they hadn't they barely used it anymore and I never told them where the cameras were hidden in that or any yeah and they never were I never got pictures I did get pictures of them leaving food and stuff but they didn't know where the were because I hit them really good. One day I went in there because I got tired of having no luck because I had one end of this canyon pinned off to where I couldn't get nothing. So I decided to rock wall because there was a few fir trees growing up out of this wall

kind of and going up. And so I rappeled down on the side and I set cameras on these two trees and pointed them down at the base of this thing where I was leaving all my bait. And I would use panty hose over the cameras to camouflage them because it works pretty good. and the camera will operate through the panty hose. You can take panty hose, slide over the camera, and then stick twigs and stuff in the panty hose and moss, and it camouflages them really good.

Yeah, that's a good idea. I can't lock these things and put camouflage them on the side of the thing. And I want to come back the next day just to check it out and check the camera because I thought activity was pretty regular in there. Went back, and all the cameras were turned around on the trees and all the camouflage was ripped off. Something scaled that cliff side and repaired. fell back over there again and I thought, shit, I'm going to have pictures of something on here

that did all this and I pulled the cards. There was nothing. So I kind of gave up on trying to trick them in there so much. I still had a couple of cameras hidden, but I wasn't, I had it pretty heavily. I had like seven-rate cameras in like a super small area because I knew they were coming through here. There was evidence. I never found tracks. Stuff was getting moved in there. Stuff I'd leave toys and stuff. They ended up taking a toy horse for me and they never brought it back. But I left some stuff in front of cameras and some stuff out, because I still wanted interaction. I still wanted to keep them interested.

And they took a little Barbie doll that I had for about two months, and it disappeared, and then it showed up that I took it from, but all the arms and legs would turn around. That's weird. And finally I decided I was sick of playing with these things, and I was really going to get something out of this, because I knew what they were, they were kind of interested in. I took a big handheld mirror, and I stuck it in the moss on the edge of the side.

There's moss up high, so like at my shoulder level, and I pointed in the mirror in there. and like we late week later on the back and it was pulled out of the ground and put face down so i thought maybe they don't like to look at themselves or maybe they don't like mirrors but what i ended up doing is i uh i built a wood box with the lid on the front with hinges on top i can head and carved that inside the box and i left the lid closed because i thought they'd be curious enough to lift up the lid and then see this head in there and if they pulled it off they they'd get their picture taken smart i also put every week and nothing nothing nothing

And finally, I prop the box half open thinking that maybe they just need, are afraid to open it so they can kind of see in there. And then maybe they'll get interstick in there, right? A week later, and it was still there and intact, I noticed that there's a white string kind of suspended over the creek that's going way down there as far as I can see. And it's like kind of wrapped around twigs, like four or five feet up above of the water, all the way to the base of the tree where that camera is, where that thing is. and there's a rock about the size of a basketball sitting down to the tree on the end of that string. Like a kite string or something like. Off of my head, as I remember the guy had told me, I remember this a few times before, that he never went on the other side of the creek because he always felt like he wasn't welcome to,

even though it was on his property. I'm like, okay. And I'm thinking, well, obviously the head sitting off of the camera, and it was sitting on the side of the camera, but inside the box still. Right. So the camera was continually taking pictures directly down the creek, picture taken. It would be impossible not to because the string went directly to the tree

was sitting on the, and the whole box off, and I'm going to take our home and check it because obviously I got a picture of somebody screwing with me, something, and then I decided to follow that string and see how far it goes.

It went over 400 yards down, behind houses and stuff. It was just kept being suspended above the water, right in the center of the creek. Strange. It was like a kite string, and I got the camera home, and I checked in, there was nothing on it.

Batteries were fully functional, There was no pictures. So whatever did it, was able to not trigger the camera. Do you think they were doing that to, is your own personal opinion that something did that? I think they were offended. Do you think they did that to here's the angle of the camera, here's where you might be seen type of thing? No, because it was directly in front of the camera. The string went up directly in front of the camera.

Oh, I got you. I got you. There's no way to avoid the camera. I gotcha. Not even if you crawl on your belly. wouldn't be able. No, it didn't make any sense. And I ended up telling the guy about it and it offended them or something. They were pissed. And he had told me the same thing that it's just that it's the same old stuff. And he was getting mine speak to. And he was telling me, he told me later that, you know,

they liked toying with me before in the games, but allegedly, but it was morbid. You know, they didn't like it because it looked like a severed head in there. So, do you think, and let me ask you this rich because I get that sometimes from witnesses. And it's not, here's the weird part. Some of those people, and then I've, let me be careful how I say this. I'll just come out and say it. Some of those people are nuts. I've talked to them before. And within about two minutes, I can tell you, there's something wrong with this person. I mean, this person is nuts. However, having said that, there is people I've spoken to that aren't nuts, aren't part of social media,

aren't part of this bigfoot group or that big foot group, and they will talk about it, and they're very sane and very sincere. And so, you know, as an investigator, everyone likes to call themselves researchers. There is no such thing as a researcher,

unless you have one in your garage. You're writing down on a daily basis what you're feeding it and when it sleeps and when it poops. and you're investigating this. As investigators, you have to listen to everyone. You just have to. Some people you can't just write everyone off as crazy, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. No, I never did that either because, you know, even though I didn't necessarily believe something

or it wasn't something that we're looking for me. And I would say, unfortunately, because it's something that I didn't want to hear. For instance, like this guy down Mountain, he had told me he saw one cloak because it was mimicking design. He could see the outline of it. but then we described it. You know what I mean? No, I know.

I had an Army Ranger tell me that one time. We had already read a couple old reports or stories of people claiming that kind of story to me even though, but it was not anything that I was willing. That's not an area I was a topic yet because I was selfish and I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to be, wanted to get some credit, you know. Yeah. And I wanted, and if I'm dealing with something that's kind of outside of my scope of control, because of its abilities.

And so it's easier for me to just ignore that and continue on with what I'm doing. It's like what happened to me, harsh denial, and it took all of these things that I have encountered and experienced through talking to witnesses and things that concern me or slightly I didn't understand while I was doing my research

or didn't make sense, and then it brought it all to put it all together and put it on the plate. It was like a peeked. And this happened to me now, and I'm intimidated and troll either. And now what do I do? and my choice at that time was to consider the possible threat of the whole thing and the

capability didn't say I'm not like I was before I can do in a different way maybe but I'm not going to do the things I was doing before because I'm dealing with something that has some abilities I don't understand and I certainly am vulnerable to the capabilities like being in a position of vulnerability yeah of course none of us do and I and I had a strong sense in me too based on, like, I was feeling like I was being compelled to have these feelings of not doing this anymore. Like, something was really trying to persuade me. I get it.

Like, what's that? No, I get it. Yeah, you're right. I mean. Yeah, and so, I mean, and I end up coming down to it where I just dropped out of this essentially for a long time. Other than doing a few things, you know, again, I'll never go out and seek them, ever. I mean, I may do other things, but think about using technology, I mean, I think that

would be, I'd just have that really sense to me. That's an insult, insult. In my situation, too, I mean, I had felt, you know, looking back, moms alone, places where I knew there was big footage being watched and I was being capable of doing that, I would think. I mean, they'll do them about whatever they were. They had every opportunity to make me disappear, and it never happened. You know, in Harsie Island, too, I mean, they could have just easily have grabbed me. I mean, these things can move so fast. They could snatch you right off of, I think you'd know anybody. Yeah. And they didn't. they didn't do anything to me, but they could.

They chose to intimidate me instead to try to persuade me not to look, but for whatever reason they didn't hurt me. I mean, it makes me respect them, you know, because, you know, that nothing happened to me because it could have. But I don't know if they do that. I don't know if they're allowed to even do that. Maybe they're not. Maybe it's against the rules to mess with us.

I don't know. So many answers either. Well, and that's the thing, and I appreciate you saying that because not everyone has the answers. I think it is very much flesh. blood. However, and I'll appease the audience by saying this, yes, there's scat that's found. Yes, there's footprints that's found. Yes, there's audio. Yes, there's people that see these things eat. However, if you're going to accept all of that, you kind of have to start accepting some of this other

weird stuff. And there's a lot, you brought up the perfect question I've been asking for the last 20 or 30 episodes, probably longer than that, is there's something more to these things. And if you're unwilling to acknowledge that, you're not being true to yourself because there's something more going on here. Just simple government cover up. I think across the board, people realize this is being covered up. Maybe it's just my... Oh, I absolutely believe that 100%. And I want to say something on your show.

Yeah, of course. Because I think this is an important question. People need to ask themselves because it's a different background professionally because that's what I did. And the nurse office has the FBI or any law enforcement or investigative agency. that has an interest in something. If you have something that is possibly a threat out there, this way, I guess, if there's an undocumented or unofficial, I guess,

you could see a biped that's very large that's out there roaming around in the woods and there's a population of these things, if you are somebody that's done any type of research or looked at any of the valid research involved in Bigfoot, back from the Native American reports and their art and their stories, you know, and the pioneers

around, and you still have continual stories. And you consider all the evidence that's been recordings, all the eyewitness account. I think that you would... Yeah, absolutely. There's too much evidence for you, you know, that there's at that point because there's just way too much evidence.

And the mere fact that when you have these pinnacle incidents happen, like the 1967 Patterson-Gimland film, really documents a flesh and blood. When you don't have somebody from a federal agency that has interest in this because this is like agency.

But I can tell you that none of these guys, Bob Grimman and Ron Moore, they never got interviewed by anybody from a federal organization that was interested in this topic. Don't you think that's strange? It's very strange. It's very strange. In my mind, as an investigator, you know what that tells me is that they already have better evidence and they already know they don't need to talk to you. And it would be something that would be controllable by human beings.

of the population, and they would want to manage that population, and there would be no reason to withhold the information of that existence of that from people. In fact, you would want to let people know because of the policies of what our government does anyways, every opportunity that they have to lock up land and to stop access to it, they generally do if it has to do with an endangered or a rare species or something like that. But in this instance, they don't say a word about it. And I think it's probably likely due to what it actually is, which they probably have a lot better idea of what that is than we do. And it may be because they don't have any control over it because of what it is.

And so they'd rather just not alarm us as to what it is. Or it may be other ramifications related to its existence potentially. Because, I mean, you look at Western. It has gone a long ways to try and behave and how they kind of evolved in what their beliefs were. completely different thing based on we only believe half what the Bible says because the rest of it is impossible because we don't take it literally in education. Well, you know, and you know. I shouldn't go into that.

I don't know, but it seems to me that we're cut off from what we used to be. And maybe this thing is a doorway to some reason. The powers that be don't want us to really know what our past is. It seems odd because there's this weird cover-up with Sasquatch, but it's not. of it makes any sense. You know, a lot of these researchers will say, well, it's because of, you know, the lumber industry. It's because of, you know, give me a freaking break. You know, if there was... It's not because of any of those. No, not at all. There's something else. There's something else that does not make sense. And I've been doing this long enough to where I can say that. There's something else that does not make sense as far as why this is being covered up. There's too many people seeing these things. Here, you're a cop. You've seen. You've seen. seen the same twice. You're out there. I was credible in a court of law when I was a copy.

I guess when I see Sasquatch. I don't understand what separates it to, to be honest with you. But apparently there is a separation. It's frustrating, though, you know, you see a lot of these, and I give researchers a hard time, and I don't mean to, but there's an arrogance with most of them that just drives me nuts. It's a, it's, there's no reason for the arrogance. Because as far as the public's concerned, we're chasing unicorns, so I don't understand the arrogance.

But that's neither here nor there. So generally, I give them a hard time. But what frustrates me is guys that have been doing this for 30, 40 years, and they're out still trying to track casts, you know, do cast tracks and record audio. They're only trying to replicate the same evidence over and over again, but they don't ever. Exactly. You look at technology. Where has it gotten us? We haven't been able to even...

Nowhere. We haven't even got to the... As good as with all this stuff. I mean, you got a bazillion people, every researcher's a pocket that's got an HD video camera and then got anywhere. You know, it's pretty embarrassing, really, when you get all the technology.

I mean, you've got one... You'll have one guy in the wood that maybe has $30,000 worth of toys on him. A state-of-the-art technology, stuff almost as good as what the military is using and, uh, and, uh, and nothing. Nothing. Yeah.

Nothing, nothing good. You got, you know, really honestly, I'd say probably the best thing that I've seen, since I've been in this, is probably Mike Green's thermal. Oh, is that the candy bar? Yeah. Yeah. But that's, nobody's really outdone that.

You know, that's probably about the best thing that was been out there. And then that wasn't as good aterson and gimlet film, but that the technology available to us and what we've got, with flurs and stuff like that. How come if all these guys with flurts, how come they're not getting fast to call them in and get them around you, really? I mean, that's not that difficult to do.

You put effort in and eventually it's going to happen. And if you've got a flur and you get them on camera because you've got some device that can, how would they know that? Yeah, and that's my whole point. And a lot of these guys will tell you it's nothing more than a monkey running around the woods. Well, if it's a monkey,

what is, so you got a track cat, You got some audio. You got the same crap we've had for the last 50 years. Nothing new. If it's a monkey, how can me so much fucking smarter than you are? Exactly. I'm sorry, excuse my language, but come on. That doesn't, it's not even reasonable to say that.

Yeah. Not based on, not if you put any time in this and done any research in with it, not taking a serious look and considered all the evidence that you've seen. You could be in this for a year or two, and you've got to consider the truth at that point. I don't think you can keep going down the path of where you're going. Well, and it's interesting you say that because I've been talking about doing a, and I guess maybe I shouldn't mention this now, but an insurance bond for like a million dollars.

And if you can prove Sasquatch is real, you get the million dollars, put my money where my mouth is, and see what happens. And I can guarantee you. You won't have to pay any money now. Exactly. And that's the frustrating part is, you know, if you offer a million dollars, million dollars change someone's life really quick.

Well, I don't know what proof. We've already proved it's existed. I mean, you can take the DNA study and combine it with any piece of significant evidence out there, and then you got proof. And, in fact, you really don't even need the DNA study. You could have the Patterson Gimlet films that you really need. Yeah, and there's a lot of different evidence that could be looked at, you know, like the different trackass. There's, you know, there's a ton of evidence, you know, the audio. Each aspect of it has its own proof.

have latent fingerprints and stuff like that, that court of law. Invicts people of murder. Eyewitness of count the court of law. It's considered valid evidence. Yeah. You combine all this stuff together and you're not really trying to prove anything anymore. We've already done that. I think the next thing is, is abandon the idea of scientific designation of the species,

how are these things really are, proven that they exist because that's already been done. I had John Bendernagle on the show, and I love John, Dr. Bendernagel. Oh, he's great. Absolutely love the guy. And I know he wants this proven, I guess the show I did with him, more or less he was trying to say he wants this proven, he wants basically the scientific community come out and say, yes, this thing does exist. You know, as him and I talked. They should. Yeah, which they should.

And as him and I talked and we went through some of the different evidence, You're right. If you look into the subject, it almost kind of becomes ridiculous at a certain point of like, why are we still looking into this? But I think he hit the question right on the head. He said, you know, not so much does it exist, but what is it? And that's my question. What is this saying? I want to know what the – I would be so happy to know this is nothing more than just a monkey running around in the woods.

That would bring me so much joy to find that out. It would. That would, but I know that that's not the case. It's not, that's not it. Deep down, I tend to agree with you on that, yeah. It's not. I mean, monkeys can't do the things that these things do. Even though they didn't follow you there, you know.

Is that Christopher Noel? Blank. Tom Powell. Oh, Tom Powell. Tom Powell tells us, when he does his talk at conferences, he talks about, you know, his site a lot. The ones I've heard, he kind of ends with this. Everard is up there and doing wood knocks all night long and being pissed off.

because he didn't get no response. He drives all the way back home and down into Oregon like four hours. And as soon as he opens his car door, he gets a return knock. And that makes you wonder. And he wants you to know when he tells you that, okay, I'm making a point of this because this is significant. I'm not going to delve into what or how. It's a significant.

Obviously, they know where you live even though, you know, and it can be four hours away. And they want to send you that message four hours away that, yeah, we got your message up there, but we're going to wait to you, get home before we give something back, you know? Yeah, it is odd. And I've heard a lot of odd stories like that.

I've heard odd stories with game cams where people put out food, set up game cams, and then all the game cams, and then all the game cams. I have to happen numerous times, whereby put brand-new lithium batteries in my game cameras to sit out there for a week, and generally in the small reconnaics, brand new set of 12 batteries will last a year or 13 months.

have them just totally be dead. Yeah, and it makes me worry a little bit. You know, again, I don't know what Sasquatch is. I'm not making any claim one way or another, but what I'm saying is when you start to hear some of these weirder things from witnesses, you know, batteries dying, mindspeak, cloaking. You and I talked about this other night, Rich.

You know, you hear a lot of that stuff with poltergeist encounters. You hear a lot of that stuff with alien encounters. Yeah, it's true. Across the board, you know, all of a sudden people's batteries die when they're in some haunted home, you know, for no reason the batteries just die. And so it's, you kind of, it's odd phenomena from one thing to another that kind of line up. And it worries me a little bit when I hear stuff like that because, you know, what do you make of that? I don't know stuff too. And, you know, that's not accepted as a lot of people that they certainly

have a lot of TV shows about turning because it makes you wonder, you know, are they something and in between. I think that they manipulated me to a degree. I mean, they pushed on me and pushed on me to get a desired. They felt like I didn't have any choice, but to be honest with you, like I was doing something wrong. I mean, strongly guilty, and I talked about that in my interview a little bit. That was on there, how much guilt that I have.

I used to have. I mean, even if I go out there and putting a camera out, I feel guilty. I just don't do it. And I shouldn't feel that way. There's nobody even looking. I'm by myself, but I feel guilty, and I don't know why. There ain't no reason for it, but I certainly do. Yeah, it's strange, isn't it?

Yeah, that is. Do you still look into this subject? Are you still looking into trying to find answers? Not really. I don't feel like I need any anymore, to be honest with you. I'm satisfied to have a good enough idea to look anymore. And like I said, it's a risk. Is it really worth doing me any good?

And if they come to me, that's one thing. And I don't know. No, I understand. I understand. I respect that. Yeah, I mean, it's not, and I think it's a personal choice. Each person has to look in their gut and listen to their own intuition and what it tells you to do and what you possibly could be dealing with

and make your own determination. Because like I said, I mean, these things had every opportunity to do something to me if they wanted and they never did. So obviously my safety may or may not have, they didn't ever do anything to me and not even me probably. And they didn't do anything to me. So I'm not about to say that it isn't safe or, It is safe to go look for them or anything like that.

I just think, you know, there's potential these things have the ability to do whatever they want. There's nothing any person can do to stop it. And I don't think carrying a gun even could make a difference. I think they could, you know, fight pretty easily. I think people who are legitimately looking for answers, looking for the truth. I hope they take to heart some of the things that you said tonight, Rich, because, I mean, some of that stuff, like I said, I don't have a great answer for. for it. And I'm not going to be asking an answer because there's not an intelligent answer to give you on some of the questions that you that you raise. And I think anyone that's been doing this for long

enough in the back of the mind, if they're being truthful with themselves, has to stop and go, yeah, there is something weird about that. There is something weird about these things. I think a guy that says, well, we're chasing an ape. I won't say who it was, but, and he keeps going on in this, this North American, uh, non-human primate we're chasing down. You know, and he's got all these track casts and he's got all this audio and he's got it. It seems almost kind of stupid, dumb, not to stop and go, there's something weird about this. You've been looking for this for 50 years and you basically have some casted prints. You have some audio and the rest of your stuff is just theory in your mind.

Don't you think that's kind of odd? Don't you think that nothing's really happened in the last 100 years? They don't start looking for the reasons why. makes me can I will continue it continues over and over again you see it as a thing that just replicates with these people and they don't ever out of it they don't seem to they just stay in the same tunnel vision they ignore all the shit they don't want to accept and they just act like I don't know I guess that's their cup of tea so I mean if that's what they want to do more power to them I guess it's to me well and that's the thing is sometimes you hear these guys and

they're like well I want to collect hair for DNA and it's like well what do you think that's going to accomplish you know well somebody already did that. Right, right. It's already been done. But I mean, even if you don't... They didn't like the answer maybe, so then you just kind of ignore that ever happened, and maybe you'll find somebody to tell you what you do on here. That's the way I think that people think. Well, and you're probably right, but even then, you know, if you collect DNA, what is that going to prove? It's going to prove absolutely nothing. I would love to be wrong. I would love to be wrong on this. It doesn't even matter if you get the DNA because, you know, with Melba, they tried, you know, after this was all done, they tried

to upload the genetic codes in GenBank, and they wouldn't let them. They wouldn't tell them why. They just said, no. It's a new, you know, sequence, but they would not allow it to be uploaded in GenBank, which you don't need to publish a scientific paper to upload the sequence in GenBank. You just have to have a new sequence that they don't have yet, but they didn't want that one. Yeah. Well, Rich, I appreciate you coming on, taking the time to come on.

I really enjoyed talking with you. I enjoyed talking with you the other night. And I loved your interview that you did. I put it up on Sasquatch Chronicles.com. But thanks so much, man, for coming on, talking about your own experiences and your own take on this whole subject. It's kind of refreshing, and I really appreciate it. To tell people this stuff, because I think my experience is valuable.

I think it's good information for people because it's maybe they're just getting into this. And I think that basically you need to look at all. all aspects of this thing and really consider what you're doing and really ask yourself, what are you actually looking for? And are you willing to accept the truth of what you're looking into or else you're going to try to make it something to satisfy what you want? That's all I really want to do. I think, you know, it's important to tell people this stuff.

It gives more pieces to the puzzle and it allows them to make a better. Yeah. And I wonder sometimes if people really want the real answer on what this thing is. I have it, but I mean... I don't know if they do or not. I mean, I'd like to find out still, but... Yeah. I mean, I'm kind of satisfied,

and at the same time, I'd like to know for sure. But I have some good ideas, but I don't know. I agree with you. Well, thank you again, Rich. I appreciate you coming on. I appreciate it. The opportunity. Thank you. And that's it for tonight, everyone.

Remember, if you've had an encounter, shoot me an email. My email address is west at Sasquatchchronicles. Check out Sasquatch Chronicles.com for merchandise, become a member, and get additional shows. Thanks so much, everyone, for listening. I will see guys next time. Then the coronavirus and wagering week is your antidote. I'm Tom Barton, and I'm a veteran sports analyst and respected sports handicapper who will help build ESPN's brand.

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