Sasquatch Chronicles - SC EP:393 The Christmas Show

Episode Date: December 25, 2017

This is a show for everyone and its going to be an extra long show. I know some people struggle this time of year so I hope the show takes your mind off things for a couple of hours. I will be posting the show tonight but it will not be up till later tonight, later than normal. Being that it is a longer show and the file size is much larger it takes twice as long to upload it to the site. Merry Christmas everyone! One of my guests for the Christmas show is Jim King. Jim "Bear" King of the Bigfoot Outlaws program had his first Bigfoot encounter as a child many years ago. Since that time Jim has been studying the creature at every opportunity. He has had numerous sightings and has enough stories regarding his experiences to fill many books. Bear wanted to come by and share what is new with him and wish everyone a Merry Christmas. One of my surprise guests for the Christmas Show is going to be Dr. John Bindernagel. I love having Dr. Bindernagel on the show. I spoke to him today and he wanted to share some of his recent research but John also said "The fans of Sasquatch Chronicles have some of the best questions I have ever been asked. Please ask your audience to feel free to ask questions and I will try to address them."

Black thing go from left to right, and I thought, I'm going to die out here and no one's ever going to know. I couldn't believe what my eyeballs was showing me. I'll never forget how evil the eyes were. It was horrible. I mean, I've never seen nothing that evil. It ran towards me at a rate that I can't even explain, turned and stared at me. And this look of, I just want to kill you. I want to say it was human, but it wasn't.

He was yelling at me to grab a gun, grab a gun. I was like, for what? He said, just grab a gun. And there's footprints all the way to the door of my house. It had went inside my garage all the way to the door. 911, what are you reporting? Get somebody out here. What's going on now, sir? That son of a bitch is about six foot nine, I don't know.

Do you see him now, sir? Yes, I'm looking right at him. Uh-oh. You're listening to Sasquatch Chronicles. Check us out online at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. If you've had an encounter, email me. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. Welcome to the show, everyone.

Thanks for being here tonight. I've got a great show planned for you tonight. Got Woody here from, I guess, a renegade podcast. And how are you, Wood? I'm doing pretty well. Yeah, you don't sound so well. Yeah, I've been better, but no, things are going pretty good. Actually, I am feeling better than I have in the last week or so.

You better take a drink, ma'am. Yeah, I know, right. And I also want to welcome Tony Merkel from the Confessionals. Tony, welcome to the show, man. Merry Christmas. Hey, thanks for having me. Merry Christmas. Yeah, and I'm glad to have you guys on to kind of kick off the Christmas show.

It's funny, you know, Satsquatch Chronicles, and I was just talking to Bear about this before we went on the air. You know, when we first started, it was so hard. And what do you remember is this? I know, Tony, I think you started listening later on in life, but when we first started the show, we could not get anyone to come on. I mean, the only, I think Ron Moorhead was Ron Moorhead and Bear were about the only ones that came on.

Kumo came on later, but we couldn't get anyone with encounters to come on. We couldn't get, we struggled so much. And as I, you know, it's Christmas 2017. and I'm looking, here we are at almost 400 episodes. The show's come a long way. It's come a really long way. Yeah, it absolutely has. I remember back in the day, they were like Bigfoot Hosspot Radio,

who are you guys? You know, and then it becomes Sasquatch Chronicles. But yeah, it was tough in the beginning, man. I remember even way back when I was trying to get Bob Gilman on the show, and I was talking to his wife, and she's like, eh, no think so. Bless her soul, bless her soul. And now we're on like a first name basis with Bob.

So it definitely has came a long ways. Yeah, it's definitely come a long ways. You know, I was, I was joking. Tony, I'll tell you a story really quick. It's kind of a funny story. The audience probably has never heard this before. So when we first got into this, I wanted, well, Woody and I wanted to start a podcast. Neither one of us knew how to do a podcast.

I mean, we knew absolutely nothing about podcast. We should have been the last guys doing a podcast because we had no clue what we're doing. But we went to a local radio station here in Portland. And no one else probably has heard the story before. So we go to this radio station and where we actually, it was KGON, 92.3. The only radio station that would actually talk to us. The program director was actually a pretty cool guy. Actually sat down with us and he had a conversation.

Yeah. And actually said. And wanted to know numbers and da-da-da-da. Yeah, he wanted to know all kinds of stuff. And I remember he said, and again, I don't hold any resentment towards him because he was the only guy that would actually talk to us. But he, go ahead and finish a drink there, Wood.

Sorry, man. My throat is so bad right now. I apologize. I'm sure the vodka cleared up. Yeah, that's what I'm hoping for. But no, Tony, so we go into the radio station, and I sit down and I tell the guy the idea for the show. I said, you know, we had an encounter,

and I haven't heard any other shows on the topic like this before. We wanted to talk to eyewitnesses. We didn't want to talk to researchers. We really didn't care to talk to big, foot experts or authors or anything. We wanted to talk to people who've had encounters. And I remember his comment at the time

when he left his office. He said, you know what, guys? No one's ever going to listen to a Bigfoot show. No one's going to listen to encounters. You guys are wasting your time. No one's going to bother with us. And I remember the last thing Woody and I said to him on the way out,

we're like, we'll see about that. We'll see about that. And it's just grown into this. You know, I'm really proud of Saskatch Chronicles. I talk about it like it's my kid. I'm so proud of it, that it's grown. It's become something that, you know, people enjoy. You know, I get so many emails from people.

And I rarely ever talk about the show like this or talk about myself like this. But being that it's almost 400 episodes, I'm really proud of it. I'm really proud of the show. Yeah, you should be. I think you proved them wrong, right? Yeah. You should go find him. Yeah.

What's funny is we actually, we had made, like, I don't know, was it, three CDs of all our of everything we've done crappy shows yeah for crappy shows and we were handed them out you know like they were tick taxed everybody and they're like and it was even free CDs and they're like no guys we're good we're good thank you anyways um I even have so I even have I even have like a handful of them still back in my I saw one in your car yeah I have one of my car people don't know it but uh and so people understand what he's talking about so we did like three episodes and we didn't even have mics we went down to Goodwill and we had these Goodwill USB mics we spent like three bucks on and we used those for a long time i mean god almost two years

but yeah we i think they were nintendo mics guitar hero mics that's what they were yeah and uh and i was always so crucial of the of the audio i was like god it sounds like crap all the time but and i always wanted to improve it and make it better and like i said i'm just proud of it i'm glad to have you both on here i know woody and i started it and tony you've been a close friend uh in this time when you know, in this field when, and I warned you about it when you and I very first start talking. Yes, you did. I said, you know, it's so hard to make friends in this field because there's so much weird jealousy. There's so much weird envy.

So be careful of that when you get into this. And the more popular you become, the more lonely it becomes. I don't know if you remember me telling that, Tony. Absolutely. I think it's one of our first conversations. Yeah, when the confessionals get there, man, you're going to look back and go, Wes was right. Wes was right, because it will get there.

The Confessionals podcast. Go on iTunes, subscribe to it. Stitcher, subscribe to it. Check it out, the confessionalspodcast.com. And Tony, you do a great job. Thank you so much for being here. Oh, I appreciate it, man. You know, I learned a lot from you and Woody from listening just to the show.

Before I even talk to you guys in person, just listening to the show and stuff, I learned a lot about, you know, Bigfoot and things like that, just hearing the eyewitness encounters. And then even to the interview style and stuff, I mean, when people listen to my show, I'm sure they'll hear the similar formats because, you know, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. So, you know, I kind of rolled with similar interview styles and stuff like that. And I learned that all from you. So I really appreciate that. Merry Christmas, man.

And like I said, you know, it's I'm literally learning on the fly. And I just go with what I think I would sit and listen to. You know, if it's something I would listen to, then I'll put it up. If it's something I won't listen to, then I won't put it up. And this show's a little bit different. There's a lot of lolly gag in here in the beginning. And generally, I get right to the show. But being that it's kind of a special show, I should take Christmas off.

I mean, what's going on here? You know what I mean? Most people take vacation. I should just tell people. That's the way it is. You won't hear me until the end of the year, and that's the way it's going to be. But a lot of people struggle this time of year. A lot of people go through hard times.

And I've gotten a lot of emails. The Christmas show kind of became its own little monster, because I got emails from people saying, hey, you know, I struggle this time of year and I can go listen to your show and get my mind off thing. So that's kind of why I do it. Well, I want to do one shout-out.

I posted a video wishing everyone to Merry Christmas, and I got a little jeopardy quiz for you and Woody. So the background song on this, to give you a little teaser on it, I was a kid when this came out. It was what the second R-rated movie had ever gone to. My older brother had taken it to. You know, when you're 11, 12 years old,

it's kind of hard to get into an R-rated movie, at least back in the day it was. Oh, yeah. And my brother had taken me to this, and then later I saw it with Woody and his friends. But I'll give you guys a little trivia. What movie ending is this song from? It's probably some lame movie.

What did you say, Tony? Wow. It's probably some lame Christmas movie. It did come out of Christmas Any guess, Tony? I know Woody knows it. It did come out of Christmas time? I think so, didn't it?

I believe so, yeah. And it was rated R? It was rated R, yeah. It's when all the best movies came out, ma'am. Back in the 80s. Back in the 80s? Or is this the early 90s? No, it was lethal weapon, too.

Yeah, it was lethal. A lethal weapon, too. It's the ending of the song. But I posted a thing up on Sasquatch Chronicle fans, and Ramona Weston got it. And so I'm going to send her out a beanie. I'm going to send her out something nice for guessing that. So, um, classic.

Yeah, there you go, man. It's a classic movie. Police open up. How do I know it's the police? After I shoot you through the door, you can examine the bullet. Open up. Mike took you to see that movie, too? Yeah, he took me.

And it was the first R-rated movie ever saw. Our brother Mike passed away. That's what he's referencing. Oh, sorry. The first R-rated movie was Universal Soldier. He took me to that, too. And before that was Predator. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I was way too young for a predator, but Universal Soldier was my first arted movie. And that was the best movie I'd ever seen in my life. Yeah. God bless his soul. Yeah. Tony's like 19. He has no clue what we're talking about. Oh, man. Well, there's some people there appreciate it. They remember those movies. Is lethal weapon one of those movies that people say is a Christmas movie and it's not? Yeah, I mean, it has Christmas music in it. I mean, it's not about Jesus if that's what you're asking. No, it's a movie in that time.

It's in that time frame, though. The fact that I have to ask that, I feel stupid. But, I mean, I saw the movie when I was like 14, you know, so it's been a while. Yeah, you got to go back and watch it. It's definitely a classic. The other people I want to send a shout out to is Heather Bedford and her husband, John Bedford. I know they listen every night. Thank you guys so much for listening to the show.

I really appreciate it. I just wanted to, Heather sent me a nice message. I wanted to give them a shout on. on there. Well, I want to wish, I want to wish you guys Merry Christmas. Woody, thanks for stopping by. Yeah, man. Thanks for having me. Merry Christmas to you. And Tony, as well. Merry Christmas to you and Happy New Year's to both you guys. And I know I'll talk to West. Tony, I'll probably talk to you too, but, you know, Merry Christmas to you guys. Yeah, Merry Christmas, Tony. Thank you so much for being here. Absolutely. Merry Christmas, fellas. Thanks for having me on. Thanks again, you guys.

Well, next up on the show, I want to welcome Troy. Troy, thanks for coming on. Hey, yeah, man. Thanks for having me. Yeah, I know I really appreciate you being here. If you would, I know your encounter took place in West Virginia. If you would, would you kind of start from the beginning and how long ago did this happen? And would you just kind of walk us into what happened with this whole thing, what you saw?

Sure. Sure. Yeah, it was in the late 90s, about 98 or so, 99. I was in, I was about 11. seventh grade in high school. And it was summertime, I think, going into my senior year. And we always, we fished all the time, hunted all the time. That's pretty much all there is to do around there.

And we were in an area called Little Clear Creek. It's way up on a mound back in an area that's normally only used for, you know, hunting, fishing, and coal mines. Up in that area, the coal mines weren't active back then. Well, there was a little mine up there, but not much active. up there and we'd fished up there, you know, my whole life. And we'd been fishing all day. And it was coming near the end of the day. And we, you know, we were a ways away from any kind of roadway or anything.

We'd walk down to a bend in the creek that was a little bit deeper than the most part of the little creek. It's just a little stream, you know. It's not a raging river or anything. There was three of us. There was me and my brother and our best friend. and my brother, he'd just avid fishermen all the time. He never stops, but we'd gotten tired of it.

We weren't catching anything. So like I say, it was summertime in West Virginia. It wasn't very hot, but it was hot for us. So we kind of went and sat down in the water just to cool off. And my brother was tying a lure to his fishing line. And, you know, we were cutting up a little bit, splashing around. And we heard something just tear off of the side of his, big mountain, you know, going up the streams and kind of like a, you know, a little,

little crease in between the mountains of a hollow. So we called them. But, um, we heard something ripping down through there. It sounded like a, like a bull coming down the side of the mountain. It wasn't trying to be quiet at all. And it stopped. There was a hall on the creek. We couldn't see anything except the top of this tree.

It was, it was great. It was big. I'd say it's about as big around as a basketball. It might have been a little smaller, but this. This tree is a poplar tree, and we could see the top of it just whipping back and forth. Yeah, nothing I knew of could do that. You know, maybe a big bear. We looked up at my brother, and he was just stone frozen, just frozen.

And we were looking at his eyes, and then he looked up. And about the time he looked up, a big rock came crashing down right in between us. And this thing just started screaming. and like we'd never heard it before anything like it before. It was like a at first it was like a scream and then it was like a deep growl like roar and we didn't waste any time getting out of the water and on the bank.

When we got onto the bank, I turned around and looked and that's when we made eye contact with this thing. And it still kind of makes me shake to this day when I start talking about it because the anatomy of this thing was human-like but it stretched its arms way out wide when it looked at us and then it just went into a fit have you ever heard the term somebody going ape shit before?

Yeah, yeah, I have. That's exactly what this thing did and it was tearing up everything around in about a 10 or 15 foot radius. It never turned its back to us but it was it like lunged at us and then slid on all fours and opened its mouth really wide. We could see its teeth. And it looked like I could fit my head inside this thing's mouth. It scared us to death, but it went to just tearing it the ground

and anything it could get a hold of and just throwing it up in the air and hopping around it, it was huge. You know, it wasn't, you know, eight or ten feet tall or anything. I'd say it was over six feet. it was but it had to have weighed four or five hundred pounds it could easily done whatever it wanted to with us at any time it didn't take very long for us to just peel out of there we took off we left everything there we didn't ever come back and get it yeah i don't blame you i don't blame you when something like this comes out um for the audience who's never seen one and doesn't know

the term saskwatch can you describe kind of the face would you say it looked more human, did it look more animal? And was there any details that you remember? Oh yeah, yeah. Like I said, we were probably about 15 yards away from this thing. And it looked human-like, but its nose was upturned. Like the nostrils were huge. I remember this, and the lower jaw was squared. And it had hair kind of encapsulating its face. But no, hair directly on his face. It had a very large forehead, very extended forehead. Its head shaped almost into a cone at the top, but kind of looked like it slowed backwards.

You know, not straight up into a comb, just sloped toward the back of its head. And the eyes were huge, and they were deep and hollow. I never seen any collar to them. I just seen black, black holes. You know, there was no whites in the eyes. And it had incisors. It had things. Oh, it did have large canines, huh?

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they weren't, you know, squared off teeth. I don't remember what, you know, the front teeth look like or anything. But I do remember seeing those big canines. It was scary. It definitely did what it was trying to do. It scared us off. Yeah, have you ever watched on TV like an ape or a chimpanzee do a display like this?

Yeah. Would you say it's similar to what you saw the way it was kind of trying to fit? Actually, yeah, very similar. The anatomy of this thing, it looked more human-like, but the way it acted was 100% animal. And I don't want to embarrass you, but you keep saying he and the anatomy. So you saw the private parts of this thing? Yes, sir. Yes, there it did. And you wouldn't think something, you know, something this big you would think would, you know, have, you know, very huge parts. But it didn't in comparison with the rest of it. It was noticeable, but it wasn't huge.

Yeah, I find that fascinating. A lot of witnesses say that, that I've actually seen the sexual organs of these things. They'll say it wasn't as big as you would think. It's not. No. And when you look at like a gorilla or a very large chimpanzee, you'll kind of notice this. same thing. It's kind of a smaller, I know it's kind of a weird conversation, but it's kind of a smaller organ that they have. It's not in proportion. It's not manlike, I guess is what I'm trying to say. That's fascinating. And so did you think it meant you harm or did you think it just wanted you guys to move along? You know, if it wanted to get to us, it could have easily. You know, it could have got to us easily. I'd say if we would have stuck around and pushed it, it would have, but we didn't.

We knew it was time to get out of there. Yeah, and when you hear them roar and scream like that, you can fill it. I know a lot of when you... Oh, yeah. I know when... Deep bass, right in your chest. Yeah, it's like a hit with a baseball bat, isn't it? Yeah, when these things go off.

Yeah, that noise is something you'll never forget. Did you guys tell anyone about this? I told my dad, and he told me not. to tell anybody about it. He said, he didn't necessarily not believe me, but he just said, he might not want to go around and tell him everybody that, you know, I guess trying to protect me, you know, from getting made fun of or whatever. I didn't repeat it to any of my peers or anything like that. Yeah, it's still a terrifying encounter, and it's a very, I hate to say it's a similar encounter, but you hear this type of behavior a lot. I mean, I've had fishermen where these things

just go off for no reason. And they seem to draw their attention to you. And a lot of times when like fishermen or hunters in particular are in this situation, it's fascinating because there's a lot of times where you can't really pinpoint what set the creature off, why it just went from nothing to, you know, 100 miles an hour in two seconds. You know what I mean? Yeah. What do you think?

You hear people talk about, you know, smelling things or anything. I don't know if it was because of the wind that day. or what, but I didn't smell anything. We didn't have, you know, any heads up at all that that was going to happen. And, like, we thought, you know, we thought it was a bear running through the woods. It was making, I mean, I've heard bear run through the woods before, and they don't make that noise. This thing was trying to make noise.

You know, you could hear tree branches snapping, like, it was grabbing everything on its way down. And the hill behind where we're at is really. really steep. I mean, it'd be hard for anybody to just walk up. What do you think set it off, Troy? What's your honest opinion? I just think we got too close to where he was at. And it was more of a territorial, like, go away. You too close now is kind of your impression. Absolutely.

Let me ask you this, too, and I really appreciate sharing the encounter. There's one in Florida. I don't know if you ever heard that show where a fisherman was out. And the thing did the same thing it did to you guys. It just, went nuts, and then it actually charged out to him when he was out in his canoe sitting out in the water. It actually came out to the water to him. And I've heard many, many accounts like this. What do you think that these things are, Troy? I mean, you've got a good look at this saying. What's your honest opinion? I would say it's, it's, that you, I've heard people say, like, they're interdimensional and things like that. This thing was, this thing was an animal. I mean,

I wouldn't call it human, but it was somewhere in between that of a great ape and a human. There's, you know, somewhere on that evolutionary chain that, you know, it's right in between. Yeah, and so it's kind of interesting to say that, because a lot of witnesses will ask that question to, and they'll say they're people, no doubt, where you'll talk to other people, and they'll say it's an animal, no doubt. And I think this creature being somewhere in between, I think that's why opinions can shift. You know, I think there's different types of these things too. But I think that's one of the biggest factor, you know, depending on our life experiences, is how we're going to relate what we've seen.

Right. And I might have a different opinion if it didn't act the way it did. If it just stood there and looked at us, I might have a different opinion about it. but this thing was, you know, it was acting like an animal, you know, just tearing everything up. Yeah, very much so. Was there anything about the expression on the face that you remember? Yeah, it, well, I was talking about, it had a really large brow, okay? And the, what the human characteristics were that you could see, it's, it's, the wrinkles,

in its face and its eyebrows, you know, when somebody gets pissed off and they look at you, they draw their eyes down and it kind of wrinkles their face up. You know, we could see this thing was, had its eyebrows, you know, drawn down. But the brow was, it, the brow looked kind of like what you would see, a caveman, you know. Kind of that wide. You see on TV or that caveman look like. Yeah, just a huge brow. But the way it was open its mouth and peeling its lips back, you know, showing teeth, you're trying to scare us.

What was the conversation like between you and your brother and your friend after all of this happened? You know, we didn't talk initially because we were scared to death. And once we got off the mountain back into town, we all were like, what the hell was that? and we talked back and forth and we couldn't you know the only thing that we could come up with was you know that's got to be you know bigfoot that's got to be a sad that had to have been what it was it definitely you weren't going to run into any man out there in a suit just running around back there hoping to bump into somebody you know because that that probably wouldn't happen there's very few people up there yeah no and i think the chancellor of

running into a man on the suit, especially in West Virginia. We were close enough. We could have told, we would have been able to tell us it was a suit. Yeah, it was an animal for sure. Well, yeah. And plus two of those boys down there in West Virginia generally run around armed. So getting on a seat. Oh, yeah, he gets shot.

Yeah. Yeah, no, I hear you. It's a fascinating account, man. I would imagine this has really stuck with you over the years. Yeah, yeah. And I was going to tell you about the hair on this day. I call it hair because it wasn't fur. Yeah, please do.

The hair, like, it hung off of the arms, you know, and on his chest. You could see its pectoral muscles, and it had a big stomach. You know, you couldn't see all the muscles in its stomach or anything. It had almost like a pot belly look to it almost, but not stuck out just a really wide. stomach. Kind of shaped like a barrel? Yeah, exactly. The hair, the longer hair was on the arms and on the legs, and it seemed like on the waist,

the hair was shorter, and it had, no, I didn't see a neck at all. It looked like its chin was resting, not in the middle of its chest, but down low on its chest. The thing that gets me is just the nose, how big the nostrils were on this thing. you know, I could compare it to a pig snout, how big the nostrils are. Yeah, it's interesting you say that. I had a guy in Oklahoma that was attacked by one back in the 60s, and he described that. He went on and on about the nostrils.

He couldn't believe how big the nostrils were. And I almost wonder if it's big nostrils or is it because they're pissed. He might have been flaring his nostrils out, you know, like when they get mad. Yeah. And I always wonder that because, A lot of times when you hear people running into them, like hunters and stuff, rarely do they ever describe the nostrils. However, when someone runs into one and it's pissed, they will quite oftenly talk about the nostrils. And it makes me wonder if they're just flaring up because it's so pissed, you know, that you're, it's displaying a territorial display, trying to get you to move along and it's pissed at the same moment.

The inside of the mouth, did you, were able to see the tongue or was there anything about it? out the mouth that released it out to you? Yeah, the mouth wasn't, it didn't have like a redish, like a pinkish mouth like we have. It was almost like a dark gray, but not black, but a darker color. It was lighter than the rest of his body. He was pitch black. The whole thing was black. But inside of his mouth was kind of almost gray, except his gums.

His gums, I could see the gums were pinkish, but his, tongue looked almost gray. That's interesting. Were the teeth clean, or did they appear to be? They weren't shiny white. No, they were yellow. Yeah, it's an amazing account, man. I can't imagine having it come at you like that, especially being what, you said,

15 yards away? Yeah. So you're talking, what, like 20 feet or so? Yeah. Yeah, between 10 and 15 yards, about between 20 and 30 feet, yeah. Wow. That's too damn close. Yeah.

And on the bottom part, it also had the incisors come up. I only seen one on the bottom. It looked like it was missing one of them. Interesting. Did it have them on the top, too, or was it just the bottom? Top and bottom. The ones on the top were a lot more pronounced. You know, it might have been it had its lip-crawled way that we didn't see it,

but we all talked about it instead. It looked like it was missing some teeth. Did you guys ever go back to that area? I have an uncle that lives up in the area. I've been back there. I live out of state now. But he's told me that he's seen some stuff run across the road when he would leave out to work, you know, 4 o'clock in the morning.

And he lives lower down. He doesn't live way back in there like we were. And I haven't been back there. No, I wouldn't go back. I don't blame you. And it's terrible when stuff like that happens, especially when you're fishing. You know, fishing's supposed to be enjoyable. It's supposed to get your mind off things.

And then, you know, these things tend to ruin that. It's a fascinating account, man. And I really appreciate you coming on, Troy, and sharing it. Yes, sir. Yeah. And like I said, I've lived, I had lived there my whole life. And that's the only time I've ever seen anything like that. You know, it gets me because, you know, I've got three sons.

And in the back of my head, I'm afraid to, when they get old enough to be out by themselves, I would be worried sick about them. Well, and I would share it with them. You know, I share it with my kids. And, you know, my son's at that age where he's, you know, he's more interested in women and video games at this point than anything dad has to say. So maybe later in life he'll look back and listen to what I have to say. But I'm with you, man. And I try and tell people all the time, be careful out there, and you never know what you're going to run into.

And the other thing, too, is with your encounter, it's a cautionary tale because a lot of times people think these are friendly forest people. You go out there, you feed them an apple, pet them on the head. And that's not reality. You know, the real world is what you experienced. And so I think in most cases, that's what people are going to experience when they get too close. Or imagine if you would have been by yourself instead of having your brain. brother and your friend. I think it's a, I think it could have possibly attacked. I think they get more balzy when there's just one person as opposed to three. Right, right. And then, then happened to,

if it, if it didn't, you know, I was able to run away, not, not having anybody to talk to and to confirm what I've seen, you know, that, that drives somebody crazy, you know? Yeah, absolutely. You know what you've seen, but you can't get anybody to believe you. It's nice. to have somebody there with you who's seeing exactly what you did. Yeah, to be able to compare notes and talk about the way you felt. And it does help when someone's there. Because a lot of times you walk away from encounters like this, and you think, God, did I just dream all that up?

Is that really what happened? And you struggle with it, even though you know it's what happened, you still struggle with it. But I think having other witnesses there, like your brother and your friend, it helps because you guys can talk about it, pair notes. I'm sure if you're going through troubles, you know, sometimes you get into bad sleep patterns or maybe start drinking a little bit too much or, and you know if you're struggling with it, the person that was there with you is struggling with it. So it does. It

kind of helps, you know, and I'm glad that they were there. I'm glad it didn't attack. I really am. And I know you've been out of the woods your whole life and this was kind of a shocking experience, but I appreciate you coming on and sharing it. Oh, yes, sir. Yes, sir. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. Well, I want to welcome Jim Bear King to the show.

Bear, how are you? Mean as a rattlesnake with a toothpake. It's good to hear from you. Merry Christmas, my friend. Merry Christmas to you, man. I appreciate you allowing me to come on the show, bro. Actually, this is the first radio show I've done since I was fired. But I tried to get on there with Duke, but me, you know, due to me hunting and his schedule, we just could never cross paths.

And we talked a day before yesterday. And we're probably going to do a show in the upcoming weeks or two, you know, and just throw something together and see where it sticks. That's how I've always done it anyway. Yeah. Well, I appreciate you being here tonight. It's interesting. I was thinking about there's a lady out there, and she actually, she went out, it's kind of a long story. She went out camping.

Have you seen this? And she had her pit bulls. No, go ahead and tell them this store and we'll rock with it. Well, this lady goes out, and I think she was out hiking. I don't have the article here in front of me, but she goes out with her pit bulls. And everyone always cries about pibbles. Pit bull is the most loyal dog on the planet as far as I'm concerned. And she was found basically torn to pieces.

and mold to death. And they're saying, yeah, and they're saying it's the pit bulls did it. And I just don't buy it. And it made me think of that Brown Springs incident. I know you talked about. And for the audience, would you, do you mind describing or going through the Brown Springs incident? Well, I never would have made such a big deal out of Brown Springs if it wasn't for the fact.

And I was honored when I stayed out there in the South, West Oklahoma about seven years ago to actually talk to the newspaper reporter, which was a gentleman named Butch Bridges, who actually covered the story. And he's retired now, and I hope he's still doing well. I haven't been in contact with him in several years. So he the man is, he, he investigates and covers local stories. for Thacker Virovial, Oklahoma area, all in there. And he was listening to a scanner one night. I don't know what night it was.

I do know it was on a weekie. And they was talking about a double homicide or something to that effect that was found at Brown Springs. I don't know. I'm thinking he arrived on the scene early the next morning. I don't know how the bodies were found. I never thought to ask it. I just heard what details that Butch had written about it first and then actually talking to him, he was able to clarify a lot more than he actually did, you know, from the written account.

He shows up next day. Yellow tape's strung out everywhere. For those who didn't know, Brown Springs is outside Thackerville, Oklahoma, off of Interstate 35, which runs between Oklahoma. city in Oklahoma and Dallas, Texas. It crosses the Red River into Oklahoma, and that's immediately, I think

actually the first exit is Thacker Veil. Anyhow, he shows up at the scene. There was a body lying on the hood of a car. I didn't even ask to make of a vehicle. It was covered up. And there was also a body

lying off to a little further to the west, where the actual springs come underneath the road off the hill where the graveyard's in. And it was covered up also. And so he, you know, got to talk into some of the officers on the scene and so forth and so on. Of course, they all knew Butch pretty well. And, you know, they kind of let him in on a lot of the veins. And I don't even know what year this occurred.

I'm thinking it was in the 70s, you know, and they determined that the man and the woman were making out on top of the hood of the car. They was both either unclothed or partially clothed, whatever. But anyhow, they was able to determine that the woman had been probably. sexually molested. Now, the gentleman that what they surmised from what they found was actually probably, you know, kind of over the girl, you know, when she was laying on the hood of the vehicle. Something had walked up behind him and grabbed him by either the top of his head or his neck and immediately just broke his neck.

the body was found thrown and that's what they speculate or talked about the body was actually thrown toward the spring side where the pipe comes out under the road and he was lying next to these cat tails that were lying in the spring there

the head was totally looking behind him I mean the neck neck had been broken so severely and probably so sudden life that he wasn't looking forward anymore he was looking back assholes and i'm not saying that to be funny i mean it's really a horrifying uh situation you think about it the young lady was found very sexually molested a lot of uh i really not get into all of that you know for

any younger listeners that may be listening but uh let's put it like this between her thighs and on her legs were multiple bruises where fingers or hands were holding her down or whatever. You know, like I said, I don't want to get in too much sexual split in detail. But the only way you can bruise like that is why you're still alive. If your heart's still beating, you're going to bruise. Immediately when your heart stops beating is when you do not bruise anymore. she was found with her mouth wide open her eyes were right she was terrified she had a look of terror on her face the only way uh but he said it still haunts into this day i think they actually you know i'm not

going to say for sure he gave the detail but only way can give the details like that actually was able to view the bodies she would look like she had been ripped open at the admon you know, across her stomach or whatever. And he said it was just one of the worst murder type scenes he ever seen. Of course, they thought at first and was thinking totally, you know, that maybe gang related action, so forth and so on. But there was also tracks found near there. I'm thinking that the road bill was actually a gravel road bit.

but they found large tracks near there. That was pretty fresh. I did not give the story that much credence until I'm guessing in 2002 or three, a lieutenant from a police force in North Dakota come down on one of our Bigfoot outies. And he was very interested in the story because he had heard us talk about it, or on pal-talk or whatever media we was using at the time. And I told him, I said, man, you can get access to this unsolved file. I mean, you are authorized to do that through, you know, being a law enforcement officer.

You know, I don't know what it's called. It's accessibility for all law enforcement agencies. They can get online and get to this site to preview or look at a lot of these unsolved cases that still to this day remain, you know, unsolved in probably determining any new crimes or whatever. Anyhow, he found the actual case. And he told me and Kumbo at the time that it blew his mind that everything that we had told and basically what I just described was labeled and it's still in the unsawful. case files. You know, ordinary people like us can't get to something like that. He was able to,

and that just really blew my mind, because in a lot of times, you don't know whether you're hearing a bunch of BS or whatever from everybody or sensationalizing something, but to have a friend of ours confirm all that, it just blew me and Cumbull's nine at the time. Yeah, and that's The story is hard to listen to, especially when you describe the dead female and the look on her face. Oh, yes. You know she saw the killer, whoever it was. I mean, I just can't imagine something like that happening, even if humans were involved. But Butch even went further and all, and the semen evidence and everything else, they kept a tight lid on all of it.

They never really, every time I'm thinking, Butch, you know, said something to effect, to the effect, they don't even have no suspects to look for. And I said, well, you know, why would they? I said, where is the DNA evidence from, you know, the rape kid or whatever? He said, that was never disclosed. None of it was. None of it. So it was just one of those things that kind of was brushed under the carpet.

I don't know how. I know that the man and the woman had to have parents or kinfell. somewhere so how the heck is all this just being you know internet material in regard to certain legends that a lot of people especially back in 2000 when we

all was taking advantage of the internet had access to as horrifying as the story actually is you could even count it off as being myth, fable whatever but being able to actually talk to Butch and then having

it confirmed by a a lieutenant from North Dakota at the time, several years later, it just blew my mind. And, you know, when he heard that, though, in my mind, I think probably Sasquatch got him. And the only reason why I say that is a grown man can't grab another grown man, take his head, twist it all over and physically, pick him up and then throw him. And I think she was actually ripped open, if I remember the report, right. Yeah. She was. And, you know, the rip, we've investigated.

enough deer carcasses, coyote, domestic animals like dogs and cattle, young cattle, younger especially, and even a case of a horse in Oklahoma that I don't see them carrying any tools like a knife around. It's just, and anybody that hunts or has ever cleaned any game animals

or things like that, those hides are pretty darn tough for them to just rip possibly or jagged fingernail or just pure strength ripping it because you know hides work pretty funny anyway especially with animals I'm not talking human I don't want to even discuss that one but for them to even just rip into an abdomen

of a human compared to just ripping into a body cavity of a deer or coyote or dog whatever to retrieve the delicacies inside. Normally the liver, the kidneys, maybe the lungs at times, the heart. But definitely the liver is one of the main inner organs that's usually found taken. And it's ripped in such a way that, you know,

it's like it's a seam in the cavity of the body. And I've harvested a number of the body. And I've harvested enough white-tailed deer over my life and cleaned enough of them. And once you start a tear, even with a sharp edge, it'll just slice on down. But it's nothing simple to do. So it takes an extraordinary amount of strength to just rip open a body cavity through hiding and everything. Yeah, and if that was a Sasquatch, that's a pretty vicious attack, really. And you look at a situation like that.

And most people say, well, you have to do something to piss them off. And I don't believe that's the case all the time. I think that they can just be pissed off. What is it? Opportunistic. That's the only word I can come up with. In this case, I'm seeing, you know, 90% of the people don't realize how these things, well, I don't, in the Pacific Northwest, I just don't see it being any different than the way it is from down here in the south.

but in the south when the females come into heat the only one that has the right to actually have all the fun and be able to breed or mate with the females is the alpha male of course every troop

because we call it troop or a pack or whatever you want to call it you're going to have males and females and once you're just standing there smelling the sexual smells, smelling the blood, smelling anything like that.

I mean, it can turn into a frenzy with those older, mature males standing there watching the big boy have all the fun. And they get sexually frustrated just like every other animal in an animal kingdom. And that's why you

have a lot of these reports of these things looking, especially in bedroom windows of young girls, anywhere from the age of 11, 12, 13, right at the age of sexual maturity. And it's strange that it happens that way. Bringing that up, you know, that also puts into an aspect, the siege at Anobie. And y'all have done a show on that in the past, correct?

Yeah. And that's what that was brought on. One was looking into a Tug Humphrey's daughter's bedroom. and that's what started that whole incident that happened at Anobia. I will say this, Brown Springs, if you'll read the history of it, has always had rumors and history of especially the Nlusa filetia, which is Choctaw for Man Dogman or Dogman. And even though I don't deal with dogmen or man dog, I'm a booger hunter,

as everybody knows, a Bigfoot. that's what I'm staying with. It's too complicated with that alone to try to mix everything up into a neat little package, which you'll never going to do that anyway. But they do have a recorded history, which there I come back to Butch Bridges again, he has written of. And if anybody wants to follow this up, all you have to do is type in Thackerville, Brown Springs, and Butch Bridges, and you'll find over the Internet, unless it's gone, written accounts of historical accounts of Bigfoot and the Nalusa filia being there at Brown Springs even before Oklahoma became a state.

So they've been there according to these older reports a long time. Yeah, no, it sounds like it. I need to do a little research on that. It's very interesting. What kicks me about it now, though, West, is, get this, Thackerville, I don't know how many listeners get into this. I really do, you know, just a cowboy side. I love the PBR professional bull riders circuit. I love watching bull riding, and the PBR holds one of its premier shows in an arena there at Thackerville every year.

Well, now they've turned that whole spring area, which is south of the cemetery, north of the Red River, into a blame RV park. They've moved parking pads in there. They've moved electrical outlets in there. They've moved water in there under the pretense. And that's the only thing I can think of because there was plenty of land around there. They could have built this RV park in, but they chose Brown Springs. I've heard from somebody in the know that the boogers move to the south side of the river

which puts them in Texas and if I'm not mistaken that's probably private property over there so you know all Brown Springs is now other than the cemetery up on the hill is an RV park which is monitored and used as from what I've been told year round

I've actually went to Brown Springs and looked at the satellite and you could see the parking pads there now. It wasn't that way when we was going there personally and checking the area out in 2001, two, three, and four.

We found numerous big foot tracks on the sandbars at the Red River there. Me and the late Dr. Charles Hallmark went in there once and had boogers paces

out. You couldn't actually see them, but you can see them darting through the sagegrass. Now where that sagegrass places that is a RV park. So they moved on. Yeah, everybody has some way of destroying Bigfoot habitat to a certain degree, especially in locations where these things have caused problems. And the best way to get rid of them is to urbanize it. And so just bringing concrete electricity in water.

and hopefully enough people stay in the park instead of leaving a solitary camper or two there with the RV who might be visited at night because I'm sure they still raid the garbage cans. Hell, that was their home for what, probably over 200, 300 years, maybe even longer. Yeah, and I've never heard of it. Like I said, I need to research it. Sure, it's nice to hear you again, Bearer. I've missed hearing you over the airways, you know. Well, a lot of people say I talk to damn much. Well, you know, it's, you know, I've missed you.

I miss hearing your voice, you know, like I said, like I told you, I'm not taking sides and any of the outlaws. I love you all the same. There is no side, man. Yeah, no, I love all you guys the same, you know. Yeah, if a person can't see what happened and see it for what it was, you know, that's their business, you know, everybody's got an opinion, and I respect that. I'm proliferate.

What's the word? Bearism, bearism. Proliferating. Been able with the outlaws, which, you know, we're still together. We're not the quote, unquote, big foot outlaws anymore. We're just the outlaws. We're planning on the name change. We just haven't agreed to it yet.

We don't know what we're going to call us this. We might even just remain the outlaws. I ain't got a problem with that. There is one thing I would like to do at this moment, and if you would give me the courtesy to do it. Of course, of course. I heard through the grapevine that I really insulted a lady. And at the time, I mean, I'm the first to admit to anybody that I'm ignorant. At times, I take a lot of things for granted, say things before I really think about it.

And I know that at times I've accidentally stepped on the wrong toes and said the wrong thing. I'm the first to admit it. But all the things that come out of what happened with, you know, me not belonging with that group anymore, one of the things that hit me because they was absolutely correct. And it never would have been a big deal if certain entities had not made it a big deal. because I never thought that what I did was harmful at all, but when I look at it face value, it actually was. And what I did was we had a show at the time when I was with Bigfoot Outlaw Radio,

and we had two guests come on the show. And one of them was a lady out of Pennsylvania named Mary Fabian. and I accidentally said, which is not an accident, I should have thought about it. I'm not trying to excuse my actions. I said, we've got two nobys on the show to give the opinion. And, you know, even at the time, I wasn't calling them a nobody to mean they was worthless. I was just saying they're not that well known within the Bigfoot community, what my reasoning was, But that was wrong because my choice of words were wrong.

I called Mary Fabian a nobody. And I want to apologize to Mary Fabian through your media, your show. So all of your listeners, if she don't never listen to this show when she finds out that I'm on it, that's okay. It would do my heart good to know that somebody told her that I apologize for calling her a nobody because Mary Fabian is not a nobody. I met her at our LBL get together last year. Me and my wife fell in love with Mary and her sister, Deborah. And when it got back to me that Mary was very upset about somebody reminding her that I called her a nobody, it just tore me to pieces. And it has been on my mind ever since when I was fired, I guess you say.

I'll just put it off as fired. And we'll leave it go with that. And Mary Fabian, if you listen to this show, I sincerely apologize because I promise you, ma'am, I never meant it the way that you're taking it or that I was told you was taking it. And I sincerely apologize about that. That's a big of you, yeah. Well, I appreciate you letting me take the opportunity to do it. A lot of people don't know this first radio show I've done.

and I'm taking advantage of you to right or wrong, I hope, because I think the world of Mary and I thank the world of her sister. And, you know, if I screw up, I'm a man enough to admit it. And I've always been that way and I always will. But anything else, I don't know nobody a damn thing. I mean, nobody. No, I hear you. And I know Mary listens to the show, so I know she'll hear you.

and for the audience listening, because the bulk of my audience isn't in the Bigfoot world, Mary is an investigator out there in Pennsylvania or researcher out there. One of the best, in my opinion. Very sweet lady. Yeah, very sweet lady. And, you know, it's a Christmas season. We've got to forgive, right? Well, I was going to forgive whether it was Easter or April food day.

I order that one. Yeah. That's the only person out of all the BS that occurred that I felt I was. an old an apology to. And the others, I don't know on my damn thing. They can kiss this country. Hey, it's all I care. Well, and, you know, I have kind of a,

there's a lot of new listeners that may not know who Bear is. But I'll tell the audience a story. When I very first started this podcast, I think I told this on last Christmas or the Christmas prior, when I very first started this show, and Bear knows the story. I couldn't get anyone to come on. I literally, to get a witness to come on was next to impossible.

To get a researcher or an investigator on, none of them would come on because, you know, what's Sasquatch Chronicles. No one listens to that. He's a nobody. Yeah, he's a nobody. And so it was so hard to get. And it was, Bear was one of the nicest guys. When I called him, I expected the answer to be no, because I'd heard so many knows. and Bear treated me like we're a family man

and he just said yeah if you need me all come on I'd be happy to come on and it was I think it was episode 18 and I have a hard time remembering episodes but I remember that one. You're right. It was one of your first shows and I was actually honored

that I was able to come on the show. Yeah, no, the honor was mine and he told the story and for the audience listening and I know they're hearing and I want to get into your tour Bear and I hate to do this to you so maybe you can give the cliff notes

because I know a lot of people have heard the story. I'm going to try. I just can't keep nothing simple. Well, and he don't have to. But Bear has, he started getting into this when he was a little kid. He saw one at the window. And later with his brothers and sisters, they had one come at them. Do you mind retelling that story, Bear, for maybe a new listener?

You know, at the expense of everybody saying, you know, I might be repeating myself. But I understand all that. Well, I asked you to repeat yourself so they can't. You're the man. You paying me the big bucks. They don't know that either. Now, what happened was, like you had mentioned, I'd seen one in the bedroom window when I was six, but all I was put off and told to put it off as was I thought it was big eight,

but, you know, I imagined it. Anyway, later on in life, and I can't remember the, year, it was either 70, 71, or 72. But I'm thinking it was around 70 or 71 because I know that my sister was not in school at the time, so that would make her younger than six. Back in those days, you could start to school when you're six instead of waiting until a full year for your seven. But anyhow, I know it was in the spring.

The only reason I know it was in the spring, because. the fireflies and see I even done everybody a favor I use the Yankee word. We call them lightning bugs in the south. The lightning bugs were out and me and my brother and my sister I was the oldest, my brother's two years younger and me

and my sister's six years younger. We each had a little mason jar and my granddad had done poked holes in it with an ice cube pick. People don't know what ice cube pick is. They're probably outlawed right now.

They're not. They will be. But anyway, anyhow, we was catching these lightning bugs late in the spring one evening, and the grass was green. That's why I know it was the spring.

That's the time of the year. Lightning bugs fly around the air with their butts on fire. And you catch them. That's how a lightning bug attracts. It's mate. They try to outshine the other ones.

And if, Anybody who's ever seen it, seen a pasture full of lightning bugs, it is a beautiful site. It's just like Christmas in the spring, lightning bugs going off everywhere, you know, different codes. We was catching them putting them in a mason jar. We got so wrapped up when he was doing, it was getting dark. And that time of the year, snakes and things like that come out, you know, they come out at night. My grandfather had come to the back porch and yelled across the pasture at us a couple of times telling us we better get in the house. You know, it's time for supper.

Y'all come on in. Y'all come on in. Of course, we wouldn't pay any no attention. We just haven't do much fun. About the third time, he'd come on to the back porch to yell for us to come on in. Now, he was about ready to get serious anyway. He's seen something moving past us to. our west, and when he was looking out the back door, he was looking straight at us,

but this thing caught his attention, and it was standing on a fence line. And on that fence line were a bunch of cedar trees and other foliage. But it had moved out from the tree line a little bit, and that's what caught his attention. When he looked at it, it was standing. He told us, upright. And that's how he noticed it. And when he saw it, he knew at a distance it was not a human. He had already run into these things in his past. And, you know, I've told stories about that. I've got other stories that he's told later on. That was why I was able to learn as much as I was because I had an understanding grandfather. Instead of, you know, like everybody else, they're all the long ranger. Man, I've seen this. Well, I don't believe it. because nobody else seen it either. But being able to talk to my grandfather about these things

was a big plus for me. Anyhow, this thing went on to all fours and started loping across the pasture towards where me, my brother, my sister, were playing. Of course, while we was playing, we was screaming as kids do, young kids do. I pitched voice the whole nine yards. Actually, I believe that's what got its attention anyway.

That's why I think these things, are seen a lot around small children. They have a higher-pitched voice. I do know that these things can hear in a hearing frequencies of way above hours as human and way below hours as human. In other words, it gets their attention. Their hearing is more acute, more accurate. They can hear probably in the infra or the ultrasonic range.

I won't get into explaining that and that's the theory I got. But anyway, it started loping towards us. Well, my grandfather knew he didn't have time to go grab a gun or anything. So he tore out the back door. We was about, oh, 70 to 120 yards from him, but the darn booger that was loping towards us was a lot closer than that. I'm thinking it was about 75 yards from us. My grandfather already realized that this thing was going to get to me,

my brother and sister, before he can never get to him. us. So, only option he had was to start raising 10 times worth of hell, start yelling and jumping in the whole nine yards all the time he's running towards us. Well, when my grandfather started hooting and hollering and acting a fool in me and my brother and my sister's opinion, we immediately stopped to see what in the hell was wrong with my grandfather. You know, he'll never act like this. We ain't never seen him run, let alone be acting a fool in the pasture. And, you know, had being young like we was, you know, that was

actions that he don't normally do. So it caught our attention pretty darn quick. And we stopped what was doing and we was looking at him toward the south. Well, we got to notice that he wasn't looking at us. He was looking past us

to our right. And it was almost like a scene out of a cartoon. I can just visualize me, my sister, my brother's head. We all come the same realization at the same time that he's looking at something over farther to our right. So we all turn around

to look at what he's looking at. And lo and behold, here comes a dame. At this time, an ape loping towards us on the ground. It was leading with his left arm. And I loped just like

a chimpanzee. It was using its knuckles. It was not using the flat of his hand. It was on all fours. and it was loping towards us using his knuckles to impact on the ground. It was leading with his left arm. When my brother saw it, he immediately abandoned his mason jar, me and my sister, and down near my granddaddy down getting to the house.

Of course, when he took off running, I wanted to go running too. My legs felt like jello. About that time, though, my baby's sister, who was around five, six years, old, just her legs melted out from under her, and she hit the ground and immediately started screaming. Well, here I was,

the oldest, 11, 12 years old, maybe 10, 11, I can't remember what year it was. I know she wasn't in school. That's best I can come to it. Torn between wanting to follow my brother to get the hell gone, but I didn't want to leave my sister. So

I kind of just jellily stepped in front of her, knowing my granddaddy was heading that way. And I was looking at this thing running towards us. And I looked back at my granddaddy, and I looked back at this thing running toward us. And I figured out real quick, this thing's going to get here before my granddaddy gets here. What in the hell am I going to do? Keep in mind, my granddaddy is raising 10 times worth of hell. My brother then started running to the house. My sister's laying there screaming. And this thing ain't paying my granddad or none of us any attention. It's still open towards us. I got to looking at it. And it's, and it's

facial features, you know, because it was getting dark, but it wasn't that dark yet. And I was able to see its eyes. It was almost like it was loping towards us to either join us to in what we was doing or it got caught up in the moment. It didn't look like it was going to kill us, eat us, violence, or nothing dictated on his face. About that time, my grandfather got close enough that it came into its line of vision from its eyes. And that's what I remember the most. It stopped. When it stopped, it stood as fully erect as it could. They can't lock their knees. It's kind of like a stooped over position. It looked like it had the

mange or it was shedding hair. Remember, this is the spring of the year. It possibly was shedding hair. I've only seen one other one since then that looked like the same condition, and it was also in the spring of the year. So I'm sure that especially in the South, they do shed a certain amount of hair that they accumulated for protection for the winter. I don't know that for fact,

have no clue about it. I just know I've seen two in the past, and this was one of them. That seemed like it was shedding its hair. It never took its eyes off my grandfather because all the time when it stopped, my grandfather was still coming, running toward me and my sister,

and he got there about the time. I noticed the expression on the thing's face changed from playtime to oops. I just royally screwed up. It was like, dang, I forgot myself for a moment there. And it slowly kind of drooped his head down, but it never took its eyes off of me and my sister and my granddaddy. Of course, the first thing he did when he got there, he picked my sister up and she was clinging to him like a tick.

and I you know she wouldn't even look at it she was still crying the whole nine yards and my grandfather kind of you know pushes me back you know put him between us but by this time the bugger was it had a look of like embarrassment on itself that it's forgot its place or something started walking to our right it's left on bipedally into the woods to the north of us and it would not take its eyes off of us. Its shoulders were big enough that it had to kind of turn a little bit, its whole upper body, just to keep us in view, and it slowly walked into the cedar trees on the north side of our place leading up to the hill. And that's the lightning move story. Yeah, and I appreciate you hearing. I know some of the audience has already heard that, and some of the audience probably hasn't, so I appreciate you sharing it. The face... No problem. I'm curious about the Facebook Can you describe the face? Would you say it looked more human-like?

Would you say it looked more ape-like? It had ape-like features when it was on the ground, loping to us like a chimpanzee. But when it stood up and it looked totally embarrassed, the impression I got was a, and I don't mean this as an insult, I'm just comparing it to what I know. A First Nation person slash,

primate. It was nothing like Patty. Nothing like Patty. Some people claim, and you know, the First Nation people say they are five different type of hominids in this world. But the

first one is the big boys, and they consider the big boys like Patty. The others are more ape-like, more primitive-looking. They're not, their stature is not that big. Except when they reach maturity.

And when when they reach maturity sexually, especially with the males, they'll bulk up like a steer, which is a male cow and the whale steers don't have it so yeah.

But anyway, it bulk up like a bull does on steroids just when it's ready to breed. And when it does that, it's so huge, it looks like a full, blown gorilla. I mean, it's really strange how it works. In their younger stages, they look more like a chimpanzee in their body, only their legs are longer, their arms are longer, their stature's different, whole nine yards, but then when they reach sexual maturity, they'll blow up and bulk up like a

darn gorilla, only it's huge, massive. If you can imagine the remake of Mighty Joe Young with Bill Paxton probably about I think they had that Mighty Joe Young at 14 foot tall if you're shrinking about three or four foot alpha males as far as I know a lot of people love saying that foot size mean more taller more bigger all that I don't necessarily mean that just means some of going got a big foot some of them got small feet don't have you know Only women know that small and large feet of quits to anything else. But, you know, that's neither here nor the point. They, the ones I've seen, especially in the south, and I'm talking to Oklahoma,

I'm including Oklahoma, Texas in that range, and Florida have been more ape-looking, and they will only get anywhere from 10 to maybe 10-and-a-half foot tall. out west and especially in mountainous regions that could be a totally different story and I think the ecosystem and the environment plays a lot with the differences in this country I think a lot of times we're talking about the same creature I bet it would be very interested

if I was to be able to load up an Alabama booger and to take him to the Pacific Northwest and just turn him loose. If those things up there in the Pacific Northwest have statured like Patty, which she was a female, by the way, the females down here are much smaller than the males. So if Patty was guesstimated to be out at what, what was they saying, six and eight, six, eight, seven foot tall? Yeah, I want to say seven. I want to say, yeah, right around there. I don't remember off top of my head, but not ballpark.

I mean, exactly. but that would put a dang male at the possibility of probably being 11, 12 foot tall. I can't say for any certainty. I've never, closest I've ever researched to the Pacific Northwest was this summer outside of Farmington in Arizona with very good friends, Brenda Harvey Harris, a fellow outlaw, Brenda Harvey Harris, her son, Randy Yazi, John Lee, all those guys. we had a blast. And actually we had some partial success with that, but we'll get into that a little bit. Yeah, I want to talk about your guys' tour. You know, it's interesting.

You see different personalities. Like the one, obviously, it was playful coming towards you and your brother and their sister. I have a brother like one of yours. I have many brothers, but one in particular reminds me of a younger brother. He's like, I'm out of here. Every man for himself. Hey, hey, take no prisoners. Yeah.

If you snooze, you lose, and he don't snooze. You know, but you see different personalities. I mean, look at Brown Springs and then look at what happened with, you know, you and your brothers. And they do have a weird fascination with kids. I had a lady on the show one time, and she was recounting a story from here in Washington State. And I know exactly where she was at.

And I want to say this happened back in the 70s. I have to go back and listen to the show. But they were playing ball. out in this open field. And the Sasquatch stepped out and walked up to them. And she, I think she was 11 or 12 at the time. She was pretty small. And she was looking at the eyes and she takes off running.

Well, you know, but she never lost the eye contact with the creature. And what she ended up doing was running in a circle around the creature. And she said it kind of had a look on its face like, what in the world are you doing? I can imagine that. That's an aberrant behavior tool. the big foot, he was probably scratching his head over that one. Yeah, no, and it's just fascinating. You know, I think they're easier sometimes on kids.

I worry a little bit, though, if they're coming up to windows. Oh, yes. Sometimes you have to worry. And I've even got one worse than that, and I don't want to cause any panic. Actually, they was a lady I ran into at the conference in Oklahoma. And she was concerned about this. I can't give you any total assurances, but I have known a couple of different people over the years, and I've talked to others who have autistic children. These are children who always will remain a child in their own mind.

And these things, these boogers are Bigfoot, when they see what they see and they see the action, portrayed but yet they smell a full-blown male or a full-blown female, it blows a boogers mind. And I've heard of incidents where in the case of these Dow syndrome type, autistic type children playing in the yards, being in an adult body with an adult smell to them, it just blows a big foot's mind to the extent they'll even step out the woods trying to figure out what they're looking at because what they're looking and seeing does not

equate to what they're smelling and seeing you get where I'm coming from and a lot of people are very very you know they're worried about this and they have every right to be but every incident that I've talked to people about and actually I've known

a lady out of Tennessee that had a daughter this way every one of them would tell me that the they'll be watching their child, you know, because they didn't want them to hurt yourself or whoever they was playing with, but every

time, even with an adult sitting there within view, just what a bugger perceives and sees at the same time, it just blows their minds to the extent that they'll accidentally walk out of the woods looking at, you know,

the child. Had you ever heard anything like that before? I haven't with adults. I think I know what you're trying to say. Like they see behavior of a child, but they're seeing an adult. So it kind of throws them off. Is that what you're... Mainly it's the scent smell. A lot of people don't really think about them, you know, being, being that they're such human-like. They forget that these things, their sense, a smell is so acute of their optory glands. In other words, being able to breathe and can sense. urine and things and believe you me they do they know the difference between the male and female I made a joke and I hope

I don't blister anybody's butt about it but you know the people that run around here don't even know what gender they are I guarantee damn deal Bigwood to let you know in a heartbeat yeah I know you're probably right and I'm not being insult in here I'm just telling you I mean if you're a woman you're going to smell

like a woman if you're a man you're going to smell like a man and they can sense these things. That's why if you'll read all the reports and, you know, even using the BFRO database or other database, even your databases, these things

when they are found looking in bedroom windows, I would estimate that over 60% of the bedroom windows they're looking in are younger girls. Yeah, I would say it's more like 80, but yeah, I agree with you. Yeah.

Yeah. And they would have older sisters. And, you know, you've got women that, you know, still or, you know, can produce offspring. But if you'll read in all accounts everywhere that's ever been reported, you can get a trend. There's always a pattern. And you find the pattern. And it's like these younger sexually frustrated males, which we first started talking. about this about, can sense when some young female is just at the stage of becoming a woman.

A lot of these things, and a lot of people don't know this either. They say, well, how in the hell can they figure out the smell? Most of these locations are in rural settings with no sewage system like that's in a major city or a suburb. they don't have a sewage plant. So what they'll do, they'll get a septic tank, put it in the ground. It's all left. It's OSHA approved. The whole nine yards is just another extra stupid-ass tax.

But, you know, to make somebody richer. But it's a requirement you got to do. I used to build houses, I know. We put down a many of septic tank when we'll build a house. When you urinate in the toilet or the commode, you flush it. It goes through the septic. system, but it comes out on the ground somewhere out of sight of the house. Usually in the woods or along a creek bank, which are not supposed to do that anyway, but they do.

And, I mean, the sewage water is slowly coming out, and they can smell the scent of the urine coming through the water system. And the first thing they'll do is once they smell this, that's when they say, Hmm, there's a young lady, which I don't see them seeing it that way. But for some reason, they always picked 11, 12, 13-year-old young women, and usually that's the age of sexual maturity. It's just too big of a coincidence, not for it to be anything else. Yeah, it is interesting, because you do hear that, Barry.

You're right. I'll say a lot of people I talk to on the phone, it's usually their daughter's window it's coming to. I want to ask you about this, I don't mean to switch gears like this, but. Oh, I love it when you switch gears for it. You don't, I will. Well, I want to ask you about this conference. And I posted to the blog, the three hour, almost three hour session.

Tell us about this conference. And did you talk to any eyewitnesses and did they share any memorable encounters with you? Yes, yes, a lot. A lot of witnesses. Actually, we didn't have enough time to talk. to as many as we wanted to. We made ourselves as accessible to everybody as we could. Brenda Harvey Harris, a fellow outlaw,

asked me last year, would me and Tim Kumbode come to her conference? I said, well, I can't do it this year, but I'll make you a promise. I'll do it next year. At that time, I wanted to actually go out there and research with her, because, you know, I think the world of Brenda, I'll just be honest, and I hope I don't piss everybody off. But in my opinion, I think Brenda Harvey Harris is the queen of the Bigfoot community. I agree.

Yeah, Brenda's the best. Oh, God. I'm with you. People don't realize what that lady does with her spare time, and I can't see where spare time come in. But once I met her husband and her family, her son, God, they're the creator's cream of earth. I mean, very special, lovable people, great people in the Navajo Nation. I think, you know,

I do a lot of history. I love history. And the Navajo tribe, women are also considered warriors, same as the Apache. Apache. I told the crowd when I was out there, when I was able to speak out there, that Brenda, in my opinion, is a warrior. and everybody readily agreed with me.

And she's earned it. I think she's the best out there. There's other great female researchers. Yeah, and for the audience listening who may not know, Brenda, she's been on the show before. She's a researcher investigator out there in New Mexico, and she'll go to people's property and try and help them get rid of these things. Yes.

And really help. She's all heart. She's all heart. I've had her on the show. All heart. All heart. very lovely lady very lovely family loved it anyhow it worked out

uh coombo couldn't make it he done used up all this time vacationing and in and boogerin and i was still able to go well fellow outlaw i got lucky dan ricky uh uh one of our original one of the original outlaws he he was able to go with me and boy that was a plus

because uh i've i've had I've been friends with Dan ever since 2000 and when I met him. This was actually the first time I was able to get him away from Vicky, his wife, for eight days. So I was able to have Dan to myself, but I really didn't. Another good outlaw friend of mine, Martin Neubel, went with us to film and actually to try to keep me straight, but, you know, nobody can keep me straight. and my wife will tell you that. And we had Dale Boswell and his daughter, Jay,

and they agreed to be, Dale did, to do the entertainment, which he's a professional songwriter, singer, slash entertainer. And we just put together entourage and went out there. Well, when this occurred, Paul McDonnell, who owns an anomalous bookstore in Lexington, Oklahoma, which is just south of Oklahoma City and Norman, Oklahoma, said, hey, I've got wind that's coming out here. Would you like to, you know, do a speech on your way through?

And I said, man, yeah, I said, how many people does your place hold? And he told me, I think, 55 or 60, you know. He said they never packed it out before. And I said, well, do me a favor. It's on a Wednesday, but can we set up two different, segments because I'm on a I'll do one in the morning

I'll do one in the evening I'm thinking and then a lot of people probably say this is egotistical but actually it worked out great we packed out both shows in other words if we hadn't agreed to done a second show a lot of people wouldn't have got to seen

the whole thing so I was able to do two shows and it ended up being two three hour segments And then when we went to Brenda's conference, she let us have the afternoon session. And I spoke out there for about three or four hours. And it was great. A man, it was great meeting all of the people.

Yate, they know what I'm talking about. You've had Randy Yazi on the show, too, hadn't you? Yeah, Randy's good, ma'am. That's a character. I love that old boy to death. me and him could get into trouble together. I already know this. So it's a good damn thing.

He's over yonder and I'm over here. I can see me and Randy getting into a lot of trouble together. Yeah. Oh, boy. He's a good old boy. Yeah, now Randy's a good man. I used, and I'm throwing my sales pitch here, which it ain't really a sales pitch. Everybody's ever heard me before, you know, I have.

haven't done radio anything since, you know, what happened happened. And Mark and me come to the conclusion, he said, Bear, why don't we take one of those shows, you know, that you did out there? Because we're going to release it all to the audience on YouTube anyway, all three different sessions. He said, let me work with the first one, see how long it took. He said it took him 42 hours to download it all. actually we was able to drive all way out there to Farmington quicker than it was for him to download one speech.

But between me and Mark, we decided to put this out there for all of the people who've listened to me on the radio show as a Christmas present for everybody. Actually, I give it a copy of it to you. I think you put it on your website, didn't you? I did, yeah. All right, but that's what we did as a Christmas present to everybody that is faithfully listened to us in the past. And people, y'all just don't realize, you know, Wes wouldn't be a success if he considers himself one. And I wouldn't be what I am, if I'm anything, if it wasn't for y'all guys. We don't just do this for no reason.

I mean, we'll put a lot of work into doing what we do by putting out a show. I know West does. He basically probably does it mostly by itself. I don't know that, and I may be wrong for saying it. No, yeah, it's just me. Yeah. People, it takes a lot to put one of these shows out, especially as much as West does. You do at least one or two a week, at least one, correct? Yeah, there's two shows a week, sometimes three. But yeah. Everybody's going to accuse us both of jerking each other off, but I'm going to just say it right now. I appreciate what you've done for the community.

know that even though I'm not a part of it anymore, Bigfoot Outlaw Radio would not have been what it was if it wasn't for you. And I think you've done a big service to the community and you should be really lauded for that.

And I'd love to say that on this holiday season. And the Bigfoot community is more aware. There's more people out there that know these things from your show and other shows. because of you, and I think you should be put on a slight pedestal for a few minutes for that.

I really do. I appreciate that, but that means a lot. You know, it's, like I said, I always give credit to the eyewitnesses and not myself, but, you know, it was tough. The show's come a long way, you know, my friend back when, like I said, episode 18, you have no idea how hard I struggled just to get anyone to come on. Well, what number of shows? We're almost at 400 here.

400. Yeah, so. That was a long time ago, Hoff. It was. It was. We're old men now, Bear. We're old men. We ain't dead yet, host.

No, and I appreciate you saying those kind of words. It's, you know, I stand on the shoulders of guys like you and guys that have been around forever. It's guys like you that really deserve the praise. so thank you. I know it's not a circle jerk, but, you know, I love you, Barry. I absolutely love you. I really appreciate that, brother. It really means a lot. Yeah, and I'm honored you're on tonight. I really am because it means a lot to me. You know, when I think of struggling in those beginning years, I look fondly on, you know, our friendship and you deciding to come on. And I think it changed a show around. I think that's really when I was able to step on the gas and make it into.

something. Well, I appreciate that. I'm making, you know, I like to chew the horn at one time. That show and the one combo come on was one in your top five, right? It was, yeah. I don't know why they want to hear my ass. I guess it's because they love listening to my redneck drawl so they can laugh about my ignorant ass. I can't take it no other reason.

Yeah, no, there's more to it. There's more to it. And I miss the, what the hell is that? You know, I miss that. You know, I wanted to ask you, did anyone come up to you? Was there any memorable encounter that they shared with you as you did this tour? One. One that just really blew my mind and you may have already heard it.

And I'm not going to say the source because, you know, I never really asked this person, could I tell the story? but he never you know i never got permission but i'll tell it and i'll let whomever you know figure out who told it and if it's already been told on the show you'll tell me out in arizona there was some drug runners that were coming across the border in airplanes and there's a certain town up there near the uh uh Arizona new mexico it was South, if I'm not mistaken of the four corners area. What these guys would do, they were, as I said, drug runners.

Have you heard this story before? I haven't. No. No. Okay. Okay. That's why I'm glad I didn't tell you the source. But, you know, if the source hears it, I'm not revealing who told me this. So you can come back on later and say Bear Stowe McGlory. But anyway, here's what he told me. They told me that they had this point next to this mountain down there off the res.

I think it was Navajo Reservation where they was dropping their drugs. You know, in a little community, a little road there, and the locals knew that certain nights people were coming in there in strange vehicles, and they had dark past their house in the dark all early in the morning, two, three, four in the morning. and then they'd come back out about 30 minutes later. What I was told was that plane had an engine malfunction or something. The residents kind of got used to the fact that, you know, a plane, they'd hear the plane,

they'd never see any lights, and then the plane would leave, and then less than 20 or 30 minutes later, here comes some strange trucks down the road, and then they'd come. back out. The plane had engine trouble and it actually crashed landing near the drop-off zone. Well, when it did, the locals of the tribe, which I'm thinking

is still Navajo, I may be wrong about that. They heard the plane when it went down. The plane did not explode or something like that. I think it was a hard-forced entry, you know, but, you know, it tore up pretty good when it hit that unlevel ground out there.

The residents heard it. It woke a lot of them up. They jumped in their vehicles to go help whoever was hurt. And before they could even get to the site, they were fired upon them by whoever was around that darn wrecked airplane. And they started shooting at them with fully automatic weapons. Well, hell, they were smart. They got the hell out of there.

But, you know, they got to call them the local law enforcement then. Well, you know, local law enforcement didn't know what they're dealing with. so they took the time back getting out there. Anyway, when the local law enforcement finally got out there, they very gingerly approached the drop zone or where this plane crash landed because they was told that when the residents tried to go out there to help anybody that may have survived,

they were fired upon with automatic weapons. When they come to the crash site, all the members that were, all the people in that plane that were found, every one of them were tore and ripped to pieces. I said, huh?

He said, yeah. And I said, well, why did that occur? And they said, well, they come up, they got their own name for Bigfoot, and they said when they started firing at the people,

it angered whatever they called, their term, or Bigfoot is. I think it's a crap, I can't remember what it is. Anyway, and that's very disrespectful. I ought to have my hashtag for it. But the point is

those things, Bigfoot, come in behind those gun runners after they fired upon the locals that lived there and just ripped their heads off and tore their necks of the pieces

and arms were here and legs were there, and legs were there. And so they started questioned in the local community and said hey, we didn't know that y'all retaliated. They said, we don't know nothing about this. And it got to be a pretty big deal. The FBI come in there, the DA

come in there because it was drugs everywhere on the ground, the whole nine yards. This is another little episode that was not told or passed around anywhere that I've heard. And everything I'm led to think it happened

within the last maybe 10, 20 years. But I was told that story. And the person who told me is very reputable, used to be law enforcement, is ex-army the whole nine yards. Yeah, that's an amazing encounter. Their behavior always confuses me because you get, you know, you can come across to ones that are playful, like when you're a kid or Brown Springs, or sometimes you get into, they fall into protection mode, like the encounter you just told. their behavior is kind of all over the board. And I think this subject is like a pressure cooker. I think it's about ready to blow.

And I think the days of the government and law enforcement sweeping the stuff under the rug are coming to an end. Well, I'd like to think so. I just know that they've spent a hell lot more money invested in trying to keep it unknown than they have any other way. I do know that they rely mostly upon our own self to be our own worst enemy. And we are. As long as we keep infighting like we do over petty things, we're never going to, I mean, people look at us tearing each other apart like dogs for whatever simple-minded reason or whatever dumbass reason.

They laugh at us. We're the laughing stock of the world, you know. And but what always tickles me, the ones always laugh when you say, okay, go with me. come on. I don't think I want to go. Well, why in the hell won't you go? If there ain't nothing like that out there, why don't want you go? I don't want to take a chance that they're out there. Oh, okay. It's kind of confusing. You run into that all the time. Yeah, you do. You really do. I think you hit it right on the head. It's like, well, if it's unicorns, and what are you worried about? Just come out with me. Yeah, you don't hear nobody talk about them impaling anybody, do you?

No, no. I think these things, and I've noticed it, like the ones on our property, you know, they've been on my property ever since. I still own the same property that my grandfather owned. It's mine now. The boogers are still there. I know they was there before I was born because my grandfather knew they was there. I don't know how long they were there. I do know his first incident back in 1934 when one, he was court.

my grandmother and riding a mule through the woods to court her when he overslept one day and he had to go back home in the dark and my great-great-granddaddy he wasn't at the time because they were courting my grandmama him uh let him use his uh carbine candle light i mean it was a fancy rig you know here we are now got halogen beams at a shoot out miles and my grandfather was riding a damn mule with a car being light lit by a candle on his hat and he borrowed it from a great great

granddad at a time and they was riding through the woods in the dark he's trying to get home and one of these things spoke to mule and that mule my grandfather always had a problem about running or getting in a hurry he said he had no problem getting in a hurry that night

he told me that the damn mule run so hard so fast all he could do was lay prone across his back and wrap his arm around the darned mule's neck. He cleared one ditch, and then when he hit the barn, he hit it so hard. He had to lock its brakes when he went into the stall, and my granddaddy kept going and crashed into the back wall and destroyed that car being lanternlight, which he had to explain that to my great granddaddy. He never told him, though it was something like a giant booger that run him out of the woods. And that's what people in Mississippi, way before we heard the word Sasquots or Bigfoot called these things.

And most states in the South call them boogers. Always have. When you order an outdoor light, you know, to light up your backyard or your, so you can see where to park your car or whatever, you know, out in the country. In the South, when they place an order for it, that's what's so strange. I've talked to several people who work for power electric companies, and they'll call in saying, hey, I want a couple of them burger lights. And it's to the point now where nobody laughs about that anymore.

When they order a couple of booger lights, all they know is they want two outs, the side lights put up in New York. So, you know, it's just a southern thing. But the ones on the property, what I was getting to, seem to adopt us in a curious sort of way. We're their entertainment. We're their everyday entertainment.

They're bored stills. It ain't like they can watch TV or play video games or whatever. So we're their entertainment. And they watch us so close, especially if we're in a location that we're there long term, that in a roundabout way, they seem to adopt you. Getting back to that story I was telling earlier, because I asked the person who told it to me, I said,

huh, sounds like these things were actually retaliating against these unknown drug runners for shooting at the local people that was right there within walking distance of where they lived on that mountain. And if you think about it, what other reason did they have for attacking those drug runners? I have no reason not to believe this did not happen because of who the person is that told me the story. Yeah, it's hard to say. Or maybe the drug runners popped off shots thinking Sasquatches were more people coming to.

But I like your theory as far as, I would imagine if they see you all the time and there's no confrontation. I could see something like that happening. I interviewed a guy. Yeah, getting back to Brown Springs real quick, not. and to interrupt. No, no, no, go ahead. I do know the ones out in places like Oklahoma. I do know that even before land between the lakes, it's known for things up there. I know locations like that are locations that people, when they see something strange like that,

they shoot first and ask questions later. It would not surprise me a lot of times when you run into the ones that are seeing more violent than others, they may have a history of bullet wounds or being shot at or actually having one of its members of the troop actually ventilated. I mean, let's even go back to the siege at Anopee. That entailed not only the shooting of one, but shooting a several in the boogers trying to recover the one's body because every count I've ever heard about it. at the time we was told about it through Tug's brother and Mike Humphrey and he said they were several ventilated shot and that would in a lot of ways to me be a reason to retaliate in a lot of ways and these things do retaliate and it's not pretty at all the horse that I mentioned earlier that had his head ripped off out in a

Oklahoma, not too far from Fort Cobb, Oklahoma. It was stealing dog food and stuff like that, and the owner of the place was shooting at it. Then he comes out the next day, and the horses out there lay him practically minus his head, and you have got to have some abnormal super strength to break a damn horse's neck, twist it all the way around with all that meat

and all that neck muscle and everything, it just blows my mind how much strength this thing has. Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more. Did your grandfather ever tell you, Bear, what he thought that these things were? He never really knew. All he ever knew of them as was what he called him as B-O-O-G-E-R-S.

I'm thinking that's where the word boogeyman or bugger man or whatever, you know, the slang is for, came from originally. It's an old-world term. I think it's Scott's Irish or somebody who's smarter than I am could prove me wrong with that one, which, you know, if you do, you'll teach me something at the same time. But he always knew that you didn't talk about because you was ridiculed about it. And he never explained why he knew it that way.

Evidently, he'd mentioned it to somebody and they all just probably laughed at him. But he'd always tell me and my brother, especially after the incident with the, lightning bugs that we talked about earlier. That's when my grandfather came clean with me and my brother. We was older than my sister that these things are up on the hill, on the property. He said they've never really bothered us, which they didn't. We've only had, as far as I know, one incident where they were raiding the chicken house, but that got cleaned up pretty quick.

And that's another funny story. but these things, it's just like they were always there in his opinion. But, you know, don't talk to nobody about them because if you do, you're going to be made fun of and ridiculed. And he was correct, because guess who the big mouth is that didn't pay you any attention? Yeah. Yeah. I told the story. we had we'd come back to school from summer break the teacher wanted everybody in the classroom to brag about what they did over there summer vacation all the kids went to six flags over georgia they went to the Disney world down there in florida they went to the wherever they went went went went we didn't go nowhere we stayed at the house and rode horses and motorcycles and all over the hills and just had a black And I was sitting back there in the classroom listening to everybody talk about where they had their summer vacation.

And I felt like I didn't have nothing to offer. So I just thought I'd share with them the incidence of the Firefly deal. And I was getting into the story, you know, and all the kids was looking at me in their mouths were open like those catching flies. And they were really getting into it. and I told the whole story as it happened. And you could have heard a pen drop when I finished. And then somebody started laughing, and then I got to looking,

and the one that was laughing was the damn schoolteacher. And when she started laughing, the other kids in the classroom figured, well, she's going to laugh. It's time of us to laugh, so they started laughing. That was about one of the most humiliating experiences I've ever experienced as a small child,

but my grandfather had already warned me. Don't tell. nobody. I learned from that point on. That's when I started getting crafty about it. I catch a group of guys and I still use this tactic even up to this day. A lot of the outlaws seem to use

it to game rangers and Forest Park Rangers and other thing when they come upon us in the middle of the road with our recorders out and everything. What the hell are y'all doing? I said, we're recording owls. And normally we have a recording

of owls. We had one incident. It was involving me and Vicki one time Dan's wife. We was at land between the lakes between Kentucky and Tennessee. And we got pulled over by a couple of park rangers. And of course, they hit us up about do you have any firearms on the truck? No, they searched the truck and saw all these bionic ear and this recorder and this big disc recorder disc that we hold up, you know, to record all the noises. He said, well, what are y'all doing?

I said, we're up here recording house. And he said, owls. I said, yeah, you want to hear a song to recording? And see, they used it to my advantage. And when I hit play, Vicki knew what I was doing because she knew on that recording, we had recorded a bunch of owls. But we had also recorded a booger imitating an owl. And she knew where it was at in that recording, just like I did.

But she never said a word. She kind of figured out what I was doing. I hit play, and me and her both started watching this. these two rangers reactions while they was listening to the owls. Then we knew where the part was coming up where we, you know, think we recorded a booger imitating an owl. A lot of people claim they,

you don't know that, but the hell you don't. Owl, when he does an owl call, it echoes. When a Bigfoot imitates an owl, it don't echo. You got to learn to hear the difference. It's there,

I promise you. When a Bigfoot imitation, something for some reason it don't echo unless it's in a valley or a hollow where it bounces off the walls when it comes out but normally most of the time when you hear a bigfoot imitating another animal like a coyote or a owl or something like that it sounds so weird and the reason it sounds weird is because it don't have an echo that bigfoot started doing that owl call and you should have seen those two rangers that tickled the hell out of me i still remember to look to this day they looked at each other up until that point in time they wasn't paying no attention to each other but when

that down booger started imitating that aisle they looked immediately at each other and vicky caught that well the guy he listened to maybe one more one two more called he's okay y'all go on be safe you know don't get no trouble i say we ain't doing nothing but recording now and it was in February. That's when owls mate up there in Tennessee, Kentucky. So all the variables were in our favor. But we learned something by just watching those two Rangers when they heard that one owl call that we,

about 95% are sure as a Bigfoot imitating an owl. Do you think the Rangers knew, knew what it was? Yeah, yeah. Most of them do. the old ones do for sure. I do a lot of my stuff in north central Mississippi, and there's a big lake right there, you know, that I've taken advantage of

ever since I got my driver's license in 1975. I'd already knew these things were on the property, and when I found out these things were scattered all over the country, man, that was just like opening up Christmas for me. I was going around, of course, you know, me and my brother, we'd always hear these. these things making these calls up on the hill. And we'd get bored, you know, playing in the backyard and also we'd start making these calls back at them.

Well, when we started making the calls back at them, we'd get responses. We learned that we could call these things using their own vocalizations. So I started when I got my driver's license going all around this huge ass lake up there near my home, my property, and I got to locate other troops. In other words, we didn't have them only on our place. I realized these things were more numerous than we thought it was. And we turned around this one ranger. Well, he was really a game warden.

I'd pick at him because I knew him through my father, who was a big hunter, a big coon hunter. And I'd pick at him about him. I said, you know good and damn well these things out there. And he'd look at me and he'd just grin. He said, you're just crazy as hell and so on. He got to the point where whenever they would run into a case or run into footprints or one time it was a 4,5,500 pound blue ribbon hog or pig was taken from this guy's backyard next to his hound dog pen. He had a bunch of hunting hounds in a pen beside where he kept this pig at.

and the dogs never barked or nothing when that thing come in there and took the damn pigs. Well, he stepped across the fence, picked this 500-pound hog up, and walked off with him, walked back across the fence. Of course, anybody knows a hog lot is sloppy and muddy. I mean, you know, there's nothing but because they love slopping around in it, you know.

And there was these big-ass footprints in the middle of the hog lot. When this certain game warden heard about that, he already had my phone number and he called me and told the local game warden it was another county that i'm sending a guy named bear up there to take a look at this it's strange how he was pointing me in all this directions to help him out but he had denying it existed well he finally retired and i went to see him one day after his retirement and i said i know that you can't say nothing to me well would you do me a favor he said what's that i said let me ask you a few questions and all you do, you can't, don't verbally answer,

just shake your head, affirmative, up and down, and if it's negative, you know, sideways. Would you do that much for me? He said, okay, I'll do that. I said, these things are real, are they not? He shook his head, yes. I said, the reason you've given me so much hell over the years, because you know me, I love to laugh, I picket everybody,

said the reason you're giving me so much hell over the years because if you'd have told me and any inkling of it would have got out you'd have probably lost your job wouldn't he shook his head in the affirmative again up and down i said even to this point in time if it got out that i learned it from you you'd probably even lose your pension wouldn't you he started shaking his head in the affirmative again since then the gentleman has passed away and so uh i'm still never out of trust and honor to him, never going to reveal who he was. Because I'm sure there's some listener that would recognize the name, and I never do that to a source.

Never will. I'm with you 100%. I think they absolutely know. A lot of those guys know. And they knew what you guys were doing out through you and Vicki, especially when they saw all the equipment and everything. I'm sure they had no idea. They knew exactly what you were doing.

But how could they prove us different when I'm sitting there telling me we're recording Niles, because I just acted like an ignorant-ass rube, which ain't rude, which ain't hard to do anyway. What are your plans for the future, bearer? Plan for the future. Keep doing what I'm doing. A lot of people want me to write books. I said, hell, when I'm at the time to write a darn book when I'm still out there creating new adventures. And I know there's going to be a day that I'm going to be slowing down. Hell, I'm slowing down a lot now. But right at the moment,

as long as I'm still able, what I'm loving about it is running across these new breed, these new researchers out there, especially the new ones that we made outlaws these last couple years. These guys are go-getters, man.

I'm talking about people like Kane Michael and Eric Tipton and Cheryl Corn Tassel and Georgia Tracker and Larry Porch and Mark Neubel and Shelley Hutchins and Brenda Harvey Harris. I mean, as long as we've got people out there who know this thing for what it is, it's flesh and blood, don't want to add too much to it to cloud the issue, you know,

I'm willing to help them in any way, shape, form of fashion. I think that if we could ever actually educate people the correct way, And I'm not saying everybody's wrong. Everybody's got their own beliefs and they've got their own theories about what's going on. But when you get people like mine together who can see these things, know how to look for them, it's not hard for us to have a problem seeing them. Once you recognize their tactics, like they don't stand out in the open, they always keep something between you and it. Most of the time when you catch one out and open, it's either an accident or it's determined you're not a threat.

these things, man, if you get the right people together and you get enough of the right people together, it can't help but one day turn around and evolve and work against the government totally. We already know what we know, and you're going to sit there and tell us with everything and all the equipment you have that these things aren't real? I mean, the only ones you're fooling is yourself, you know,

and I'm talking about the government, basically. they have their reasons for doing what they do. We actually don't want to prove this thing exists. All we want to do is help people who have been terrified by these things, actually have seen something that they can't grasp, cannot get their head bent around it, to understand what they saw. There's no money in trying to prove this thing exists.

If anything, if it's ever allowed to exist, it's just going to cause more headaches than not only the government I have, but religion I have a problem with it. It would take all the guns away from all hunters. The wildlife in this country would have no means of checking their population growth by eliminating the American hunter. You know, all hunters aren't just killers of game. we're actually thinning out the herd

so white-tailed deer and other things can proliferate instead of starving by overpopulation. And that's a sad way to die is to starve to death because there's so many deer running around or rabbits running around that they're eating all the undergrowth and everything

and then they'll lose their body weight and everything else. And it's sad, man. actually a bugger at times could be a general means of animal control in a lot of ways. I know how damn coyotes breed. I know how wild hogs breed. Can you just imagine if there ain't something out there kind of helping check that population explosion growth? Yeah, it'd be a mess.

I tend to agree. I think that there would be a major backlash if this thing came out. I, on the other hand, would like to see it proven. Yeah, me and you too. Yeah, I tend to agree with you, though. I think there would be, it's not going to be all peaches and cream when this thing comes out. There's going to be a lot of negative when it does come out. Well, you know, a lot of people that have had strange excuses or reasons, you know, like poor old bear, whether it's a grizzly bear or a black bear, mostly it's a black bear or a cougar or whatever.

A lot of times, you know, when something happens to somebody that is actually probably Bigfoot related, the innocent culprit that always pays for it is the black bear or a puma or a cougar or whatever. And normally when they return the remains back to the family, they, you know, say, well, you know, it's closed casket, don't even open it up. It's not going to be pretty. The whole nine yards, it's just best to go ahead. And then some families, you know, still look at the remains. And they say, wait a minute, there ain't no damn bear attack. Barrers don't twist heads around that direction and all this kind of stuff. And if the government says, oh, the gig is up, just litigation and lawyers and lawsuits in itself would break.

several divisions of the government that are involved in national parks and forestry services and things like that. Just think about it, man. Yeah, I think the way it's going to come out is eventually they're going to allow it to come out, but the government's not going to come out and say they exist. What they're going to allow to happen is to have someone drag it in or come in with evidence and go, hey, look, all of a sudden now it exists. That's how they're going to do it. And they can go back and say, we didn't know. And what are you going to say? I mean, obviously you and I both know they know. Well, just look at what the, what was it, the Kennewick man did out there and around your neck of the woods?

And to this day was, I mean, I can't tell you honest to gosh, if that, was that a big foot or was it, what was it, you know? I mean, think of all the headache they went through over that. And that was just one body. and see there you have other things you know is this a first nation type person you can the tribe various tribes will they allow it to be not desecrated but you know this is something that is natural and of the wild and the government's exploiting it i mean there's so many then you got oh where does this fit in religiously or humanely in our lineage. How can it

breed or rape or sexually assault humans and produce offspring? The only way it can do that is if it's compatible DNA, you know? Yeah, there's a lot. I mean, gosh, a mighty man. Think of a headache

it would come. And we hadn't even mentioned the biggest one. Who's going to affect the worst? It's going to be the timber and lumber industry. And what's so funny about it is, I think a lot of our national parks and forest and most of the man-made dams

and valleys that are flooded are, you know, under the auspices of being a reserve or a safety zone so we can in a sort of a way protect these things. I already know the book, the government probably figures,

well, there's no way we can control them. There's no way we can stop them from coming and going. I mean, think about the strength alone. And if you designate X number of acreage to give them a habitat, Lord and mercy, man, they don't need it because they're going to come and go as they please. Yeah, you're right. There's so many unanswered questions, you know, it's something we can't control.

And I think that's what terrifies most people is we can't control it. And it's, you know, a little bit different than a grizzly bear. I realize we can't control a grizzly bear or cougar, but, you know, you're talking apples and oranges when it comes to Sasquatch. Oh, yeah. Especially when one can intellectually figure things out at a quicker capacity or whatever you want to call it than just your average animal. And these things are human.

I'll put it this way. I don't want to say human, primitive human type intellect. I know they can count up to five. It may not be one, two, three, four, five. I mean, in their own jargon or language. But after five, it becomes you have more than five. And so you won't miss. And the reason we come to that conclusion,

I've noticed over the years, along with comparing notes with fellow outlaws and other people in the community who do go out in the woods and check things out, which is surprisingly it's a it's a very few number of people a lot of people like to be known that they're in the woods all time but that's not the case uh how in the hell if you don't get in the woods if you get in the woods you're going to get a sun tan a lot of these suckers that writing books and everything are white as a chalk paper and uh hell how in the hell you

learned anything with that perfect non tan you got i ain't never figured that one out yet but you got a lot of people that are going to just win this thing if it's ever allowed to exist I just don't think the world will be ready for it man I think the government done spit it would not surprise me Wes if they haven't known of this thing especially after the Lewis and Clark expedition because you know as I mentioned earlier, I love history, and there's a lot of mystery behind Maryweather Lewis's death, because I don't know how much people thought about this, but his entire journals from that trip were never published, only the parts of the journal that were found after he was suspiciously murdered at Grinders Stan on the Natchez Trace.

And he had his journals with him. But miraculously, the journals or what was left of it were sent to Washington to Thomas Jefferson, who was the president at the time. They published, censored, I believe, parts of that journal. I can't think. I'm not saying it was because of Bigfoot. It could be other things, too. I believe that Lewis run into some stuff out there that Uncle Sam, even back in Thomas, Jefferson's age and time decided that the American public didn't need to know nothing about it,

especially the religious side of it, even though, you know, Jefferson, I think, was basically an atheist to a certain degree. Yeah, it's interesting. I think Lewis actually became a drinker when he came back, didn't he? I think prior to that, he wasn't really known to be a drinker. And you're right, they are censoring his diaries. It makes you wonder what's in there. He did start drinking. I just, can't imagine what happened there. But see, there you go again. It seems like they kind of blacklisted

Lewis to a certain degree because he would never turn in his journals. I've read several accounts of that and I would say to myself, what was in those journals? Because I can't think of no other reason

to blacklist a man that just opened up the North American continent to the land that Napoleon sold to us under a Louisiana purchase, you know? And it blows my mind at times with, maybe I'm too much of a conspiracy theorist, but it just seems sad. It is. Tragic.

Well, think about what he brought back from the different cultures out there, and you can't tell me that there was not a possibility if nothing else, the closer he got to the Pacific coast, he run into totems out there with this thing painted on it. And you're going to sit there and tell me when he sits down with the tribal chief of that tribe, he didn't hear of something called a Bucca or a Sasquatch. Because they didn't know what Bigfoot was at that time. I know that he even wrote in his journal about the killer whales.

And see up until then, you know, they wasn't much said about killer whales. and the reason he'd come across that was they were painted symbolically on a total. And most of the totems I've seen, even that has killer whales on it, somewhere in that totem lineup, there's a bigfoot or Sasquatch or a bugger, you know. Yeah. Well, somebody knows everything. That's for sure. You know it and I know it, and we probably never will. Yeah, it's true.

It's true. Hey, at least it's a hell of an adventure, is it not? No, it is. It is. And it's a tough adventure because sometimes you lose friends throughout it, you know. Well, no, that's ignorance. Jealousy, petty jealousy and ignorance. The only ones who can lose friends is those who decide to do it. Yeah. Human nature is the most despicable thing existing in this world because you think you know some people and you don't know a damn thing. And it just, it blows my mind how people are. And especially over this subject, man. We're all fighting over something that's sitting out there in the woods scratching his head and scratching his ass and don't believe, don't even know what's going on.

And besides that, and here's the biggest kicker of them all, brother, if you allow one to be real and discover it, does that mean the rest of them are going to come out of the woods waving the white flag saying, okay, the gig is up. Y'all have already let it out that we're here. Is they going to make it any easier to find one? No, no, not at all. That's why I laugh to, you know, people say, well, everyone's going to grab their guns and they're going to head for the woods. Well, good luck. Yeah, have at it, Jack.

Have at it, you know. These things have been shot at for a long time. Hey, look at it like this. Why in the hell do these things avoid humans? Yeah, it's because we're dangerous. Very dangerous. We're our own worst enemy. And, you know, I guess that's to be human.

You know who's going to survive a nuclear fallout attack? I guarantee you. Everybody says it's going to be the old common house roach. I guarantee them to you a bugger crawl out of a hole after it's all said, done, and said, whew, them stinking humans ain't around anymore. Yeah, well. You could be right. It could be right.

Bear, I've enjoyed having you on, man. It's been too long. It's been too long, my friend. Well, I told you, whenever you get bored or you can't find somebody to come on, but see, now, since you've got so popular, you know, that option ain't there anymore. But if you ever get bored, you got to do, give me a bus. One thing I'd love to say before I get off here, I've already done, like I said, jerkier enough. everybody who's listening out there from me and my wife and the outlaws,

we wish you guys the merriest of Christmas, and we hope that 2018 will be a hell of a lot better year than it's been. Things are looking a little brighter, even though everybody's moaning the blues about it, but no, it's all going to work out. I miss all you guys. I'm still kicking. I'm still here.

If you aren't a friend with me on Facebook or whatever, all you have to do look at Jim King or go to the beach page or go to Wes's page or whatever, Wes, the direction in the right direction. I love everyone of you guys. Thank you for allowing me to be on here tonight, Wes. It was an honor as usual, and I had a blast.

The honor was mine. Merry Christmas, my friend. Merry Christmas to you, I enjoyed it. Is everyone still with me? Hey, let me stop the Christmas music real quick. Next up on the show, I want to welcome Harriet and her son Marty. And her son Marty actually had an encounter on his property. And he'll be sharing that with us tonight.

But he recorded this. Take a listen. June 12th, Rock Clock, straight up the hill. And I want to welcome Harriet to the show. Harriet is the mother to Marty. And we'll talk to Marty here in a moment. Harriet, welcome to the show. Thank you for being here.

Thank you. I'm really glad to be here. No, I appreciate you coming on, Harriet. Thank you again. And we'll get to Marty here in a moment because I want to talk to him about this audio and what he saw that night. Before we actually get into that, now you had an encounter when you were younger. If you would, would you kind of start from the beginning and walk us into that encounter. Tell us what you saw, what you heard. Okay. My husband and I, we didn't have any kids, and we had bought some land over in the a different county, Hampshire County, and we bought 15 acres of land on a mountain called

Spring Gap Mountain. So first opportunity, we wanted to go there in camp, and it was like the last week of May. In 1972, we bought all this new camping gear and tent, and I'd never been camping with, you know, anywhere except in a campground. So I was really, you know, I didn't know what to expect. there in the middle of nowhere. So we, my mother also went with this, and my little puppy dog, I heard the little puppy dog. We had just gotten it.

So we went, went out there on a Friday or I think it was Saturday. We got to the campsite. We went in there and cleared it off and built the fire ring and set up our tents and our tent and everything. We had a two room tent. So, you know, we just did the normal camping things. We fixed something to eat. And then it was getting dark.

It was just getting pretty dark. So my husband was on the other side of the truck trying to light the Coleman lantern. And you have to sort of pump those things sometimes to get him going. So the only light we had was the firelight. And I was sitting by the fire with a stick in the fire. I was poking at the fire. So he was on the first. the other side of the truck about 20 feet away.

And all of a sudden, this loud scream came out of the woods, and it was like a siren. It started out really low and then got really, really, really high. And you could just feel it. It was that round. It was, we didn't know what it was. And to me, it sounded like whatever was doing it was just into the woods out of the firelight. I mean, it could have been 20, 30, 40, 40, 50 feet away.

But, I mean, it just really was close and really was loud. And it lasted about seven seconds. And during this yell, my husband yelled to me, get the gun, which was in the tent. And I was so freaked out that I had this stick on fire. I started to run into the tent with the stick burning. And my mom yelled, put the stick down. So I put the stick down, ran in there. And I got the gun.

and I gave it to him, or he came around and got it as I was getting it out. And to tell you the truth, it was such a hectic mess that I don't even remember what he did then because he might have walked a wreck around it, you know, around the truck to see what it was and get a little closer. But we were all just so scared. We just waited for something else to happen and thankfully nothing else did. We were the only people in the area for at least a mile as a crow flies. We were nobody, no houses or anything around us. So we kept after yelled and then nothing else happened, you know, of course, we were saying to each other, what was that, you know?

We didn't know. And I was kind of expecting my husband to know because he'd been out in the woods more. He was a hunter. And I thought, well, he should know what it was. Was it a mountain lion? You know, we just didn't know. Well, he didn't know either. So any normal person would have probably packed up and left, but we didn't.

You know, nobody even mentioned going home. We stayed the whole week, never had any more occurrences. And I didn't. Oh, I forgot. Marty's reminding me. During the night, my mom was sleeping in the back part of the tent, a separate room there. And she was sleeping on a reclining, like a beach chair, but had, you know, You could recline on it.

She was sleeping there. And during the night, something came up to the tent and lead in on her. And she picked up this lantern, which was made out of metal. It was a railroaders lantern. And they're heavy. And she picked that thing, the lantern up and hit it, whatever it was. And it went away. And, of course, the next day she told us about it.

Oh, we said, oh, it was probably a deer. You know, we didn't really give it much credibility, but we thought it was just a deer. So as years gone by, you know, my husband told the kids that he saw red eyes out in the woods, but he didn't tell me. He never told me. He saw red eyes when this was going on? Yeah, when it yelled. And my mom, she said, it was not a deer. She told my kids later, after we had.

kids and we would talk about this in front of them. So this sound, I never could identify it. We talked to, and my husband went and talked to the DNR officers, and they didn't know what it was. So, a couple, several years later, when that show came on television, you know, in search of, and I think one of the shows had a sound on it, like a recording somebody got. And soon as I heard that recording, I said, hey, that's what we heard that night. That's what it was, you know, Sasquatch or Bigfoot. But it was quite a night.

Yeah, I would imagine. I'm curious, did it sound like this? This is the Ohio Hall. Yes. It started out really low and deep, and then went up and up and up and up and up, just like the Ohio Hal. Wow. So it was just like that. Yeah, it was like that.

And this here, the lot we bought, it was right next to a high tension. in the big, the big, you know, electric lines. I was thinking later, I want to learn more about them. It might have been following those lines for, you know, to get from one place to the other. Yeah, that's my little story. Yeah, no, no, I appreciate sharing it. I know you guys moved into this property. And again, I played Marty's recording there in the beginning.

Do you want him to talk about this property? Yeah, yeah, I'll give it. I'll give the time. It's Marty. Yeah, so that's what got us in the Sasquatch with her telling us the story over and over years. Yeah, that's a great story your mom shared. It's, but when did you guys move into this property? Well, first of all, welcome to the show, Marty.

Thanks for coming on. Thank you. When did you guys move into this property? Or have you guys always lived there? What year? We moved there. About 2010, we moved there. Okay.

And kind of start from the beginning. Tell me what's going on there. what you've experienced? Well, we really didn't have any activity at first. We just didn't think they were around. You know, we figured they were further south or, you know, down to its Seneca Rocks or those areas like Spruce Knob down Pendleton County. So we just started, actually my brother started talking to someone with the BFRO

about recording sounds and he had a recorder so we decided to start recording and uh just for fun basically and uh on this night i wasn't even thinking about recording it was in june i was actually on the computer uh late in the night it was quiet house there was no tv on or nothing like that and i kept hearing noises outside through the uh through the window where the air conditioner was and Air conditioner was off, so I could hear outside. And I don't know why. I was just distracted by a computer, and I wasn't really paying attention. When I heard something, they got my attention, when I started listening.

And I can't remember now exactly what it was. It was just like something moving around. It sounded like somebody was out there doing something. And I thought, who the heck is outside doing stuff? So I went outside and listened. I didn't hear anything. I think I went back and went back to the computer. Then I did hear something.

And I woke my mom up and said, there's something outside making noise. It's quite sad and listened. I think that was about 12 o'clock, I think, something like that. So we went out there, sat for half an hour, didn't hear nothing. So she's like, I'm going to bed. So she goes back to bed. I go back to the computer.

And I'm on the computer. It's about 2.30. And I started hearing noises again. I finally think I heard a noise. it was like, pop, pop, pop,

pop, pop, and I was like, what in the heck? Somebody's letting out of firecrackers or making

some loud noises this late at night. So I went off and I was kind of mad. I was like, who was out here making noise? I wanted to hear,

hear it and make sure it was, that's what I heard, you know? And I was out there were like five minutes and then I heard

two rocks together. And I got that, like, sinking feeling that I knew I was hearing something

definitive. It wasn't just something you could brush off. I knew I was hearing what I said of them. So I run down and get to the recorder. Get to record, put it out. And I don't think a really

guiding recording recorded for, it took like a half an hour before stuff to start happening. But it all happened within like eight minutes, you know, pretty close to everything happened. It just rocks being hit together a couple times. And then another rock clock

a little bit later. And after the second hit, I saw something move through the trees. It's my neighbor's property. They have, there's a little bit of woods in between my house and their house. And they have sunlight pointed toward their house. And anything that moves through the woods, I can see it so wet. And, you know, she did go through there, and they can't, they don't know they're being seen

because they're in the, you know, good tree cover. And I've seen this big, upright, human-shaped form moved between two trees. And I felt this shot of a drilling go through me because I thought, well, I'm hearing stuff up the hill

and here's one moving through. And I only saw it for about half a second. But it had like a really straight, direct walk to it. It was hunched over. And it was so high off the ground, I thought, well, that can't be a bear. you know, well, I'm not seeing a bear.

And I could see it if it passed between where it was a good opening, I could see it keep moving. It was moving fast. It wasn't moving slow, but it wasn't making any noise at all. That's a strange thing. I watched it move through the woods, and I didn't hear anything else. It just kept going. And I was like, what do I do?

Go in? I was, like, getting a little antsy. I thought, man, I said, no, I stay out here. I have to know. So then I heard another rock clack a little bit later. And I was so flustered, I think, on the table I said, I said Woodnock. I meant to say rockclack, but I was like, that's how I know that, because I thought,

should I say something on the recording about what I was seeing? I thought, no, if you're listening to it, you're not going to have the context. I thought, no, I'm not going to mention it. But I wish now I had. Oh, that recording I played was... I heard the last rock clock before the big knocks or wherever that was. Oh, the recording you sent me that I played, that was the same night you saw this thing. Yeah, yeah.

Let me ask you, Marty, was it up on two legs? Could you tell? Yeah, there was... I could tell that it was on... It was up right on two legs. I couldn't see the legs at the top of the head so much. I couldn't see the whole form. but I could see that it was upright and that there was like brush below and above like through where I was looking I couldn't see the whole top of the head

and I could just see like I saw the shoulder roll like an upper arm move and it had like a strutting it like strutted it was like only thing I could say it kind of like didn't care that I saw it and I was like I don't care if you see me

kind of kind of thing And that was the feeling I got. It didn't care if I saw it. And I know if it walked where it did, it could have saw it on that porch. I was on the back deck. And it had to see me. And after I saw it, I didn't see any facials. I didn't see anything like that.

I just saw so wet. But it was big, and it was moving fast, and it made no noise. That's so weird. I want to ask you something about the recording. there's a portion in it, and I haven't heard anyone capture this yet as well as you captured it, but you know that gunshot sound where it's obviously a branch breaking, it's not a gunshot. How far away from you was that when you were recording this? I think it was probably about 100 yards up the mountain.

It was so loud. I mean, when I heard it, it was so loud. That's the only thing I compared to was a gun going off. It was shockingly loud. And I had to say, man, it sounds like a gunwashed so loud. But they always do it twice. It seems like they would knock, and it 10 seconds goes by, and they'd do it again. I don't know if it was knocking because I was on the porch,

or if it was telling the other ones be quiet. Well, I don't know what they were doing, but that's a parent I saw. Do you think the same creature, broke that branch or do you think it was a different one? That's what kind of scared me a little bit is I knew the one that I saw moving through wasn't the one that did the knock because it was moving down the hill

and the knock came from up the hill. So they had been more than one and they must have been, you know, pushing deer through or something like that. I want to ask you, too, how far away from you was a silhouette that you saw that night? It was probably about 50 yards away. Oh, wow, really close.

Really close. And so all of this started, you said, back in 2013. Yeah. Yeah, we had some, you know, we kind of thought maybe they would come around once in a while, you know. But we didn't have anything to send it up until this happened. That, to us was, you know, we really got something going on here, you know, and we were kind of surprised. Have you guys been leaving any food? out or anything like that?

Yeah, we did. We never really had, I mean, I'd put apples out and check it, I always assumed a deer was eating or something like that. You know, put garlic out, see if they took that. Just to see, you know, a little

of experimentation, see what happens, you know. I, you know, I didn't really know like I do now. You shouldn't do that. Yeah, no, I understand. You're really pressing your luck when you do that. You've got to experiment. Yeah. Has there been anything else that's been going on?

Beyond this one eventful night, has there been any other occurrences around the property? Well, we don't live in that location now, but something else of significance did, you know, a big thing did happen, you know. We had a property where we live now. Our neighbor was that on this property, this new place where we live, they were out fishing at a local dam. They had some, you know, scary stuff happened to them a couple of times. And so I went out there and put my quarter out there and came home. So that night, I think I was watching TV. the dog started barking and we go out to the porch and we're hearing something vocalizing

far off and you heard bang, mom heard bang first, heard a bang. I didn't hear it, but she did. She was in her bedroom and I was watching TV and a lover. So we go out to the porch and listen and at first I kind of thought it sounds like owls or an owl, but it's moving. And as it gets closer, then it kind of says. sounds like a little bit like a coyote. You're not sure what you're hearing.

But it was moving. As it got closer, it sounds less and less like owls and coyotes and more like a fastwatch. And it was making so much noise that I couldn't believe all the dogs in the area weren't barking at. But the only dog that barked was our dog we had on a portion. He only barked once in ground. Well, we're listening to it moving through.

you know area and it's probably I want to say it's not it's not close to our house but it's it's I would say I don't know 300 yards away maybe more and where it was going some neighbors houses were closer and their dogs didn't bark at all and I thought that was really strange well we were standing there you know listening to it and then it was heading towards the saddle, the mountain, where we heard a lot of sounds. And the last sound we heard, it did,

it was almost like a long, uh, elongated whoop. It was, uh, and I, when I heard that, I knew,

but pretty much without a doubt, that was a Sasquatch. I mean, I've never, ever heard anything except for when my brother were hunting, when I thought they heard something. I knew we were hearing a Sasquatch. And it was,

so crazy that the recorder was somewhere else recording. It was the best thing I've ever heard. And that was just crazy. And I looked, I turned to mom and said, that was a Sasquatch. And it kind of just moved off and we didn't hear, but it was like it was moving the whole time. So I knew it wasn't just a, you know, a misidentified coyote or a owl. But that was the last thing we had happened before we moved from there.

But, you know, we don't live far from there. So we're hoping we have, you know, more activity here. Yeah. My mom doesn't want it, but I do. I want it to do. Yeah. Well, be careful what you wish for, man. Be careful what you wish for it.

I know. I know. I'll probably be, you know, I don't want to say that. But, you know, that's just, I want that definitive encounter that, you know, the visual sighting. That's what I want. Yeah. Well, I mean, you kind of had it with the outline. I get what you mean, though.

Yeah. I was really impressed with your recording. It was a great job recording hit. But no more activity at the new place, huh? No, no. And I kind of think that sometimes I'm going to go by. And I have a feeling little things will start happening. You know, that's just the power now seeing.

You know, they don't make themselves known until they, you know, become used to you, really. Let me ask you, why do you think they were around that property? Do you think they were just passing through, or do you think they resided near that property? I think they travel along the mountain ridge, because if you saw that mountain, New Creek Mountain, it falls south. It goes right down and right to Seneca Rocks and Spruce Knob. I think they travel back to the mountain ridges. And I think that's why they – and I think they might be there. certain times a year, but I could never really see a pattern of, you know, activity.

I think the saddle has something to do with things. I think they cut through that gap. They call it a gap here in the mound, and that's they use it for travel, for travel. So that's, I think they're just moving through. I don't think they are all the time. Marty, what state is this in? Is it West Virginia? Yes, West Virginia.

West Virginia. Let me ask you, I know you've been long. looking into this for a while and you've gotten some good evidence as far as audio goes. What do you think Sasquatch is, Marty? What's your honest opinion? I used to think it was just, you know, an undiscovered animal. But now I think it's just a type of human, almost like a throwback to the last Ice Age. You know, how you're like moly mammoths and saber-tooth tigers. these things seem to be built to live in extreme environments.

And I think that's what is basically like a woolly human almost. That's where I think they are. I think they're a human that was just made to survive. And I say, and they just never died out. Kind of like a caveman? Yeah. But I think they're really, they're not like a caveman because they don't use fire. or and they don't use tools.

So it's kind of, you know, I don't know why they don't do that. Maybe they consciously don't do that, you know, to hide from us. But I think they're just people. That's really I do. I think of people. Yeah, well, I can respect that. You'll have to keep me up to date, will you? Let me know if you get any more audio or if you have any more encounters near that property, will you?

Yeah, yeah. I'll be glad to Yeah And we listen to the show And I just want to say the show is It's basically a I think it's brought the Sasquatch community

I think it's Raised it up I think so Because you know I never There's a lot of Before this show I started looking to it I didn't think

There was anything to be afraid of Sasquatch Because they never heard of a report Where they heard anybody or do anything But now I have listened to some of reports, it kind of gives you context, you know, as far as fast watch. But this show is, it's a daily highlight, and it really has a positive effect to people's lives, I think. And I just want to thank you for doing it. Well, thank you for saying that, Marty. I really do appreciate it.

And thank you and thank Harriet for coming on. I really enjoyed talking with you guys. Thank you. We'll keep you up to date. Well, I want to welcome Dr. Benernuggle to the show. Doc, how are you? I'm good, thanks, Wes. Yeah, Merry Christmas to you. Thank you so much for being here. Well, thank you. Thanks for the invitation. Yeah, and I know a lot of the fans have questions for you. They always love when you come on, and we can actually get to some of your newer research, Doc.

But before we do that, would you mind if I go through some of these questions? Good, let's do that. All right. One of the members on my site, Farrell, he says, hopefully I'm pronouncing his name right. I know this is not his field of expertise, but does or have Dr. Benernagle identified subsets or types, like those that have been proposed by others,

type one, type two. He's asking, what is your feeling on the different types people talk about? Well, no, that's a really interesting point. You know, I mean, yes, there is a great deal of variation between, well, talking about Sasquatch, as we see them portrayed in their tracks and from eyewitness descriptions and from eyewitness drawings. And I guess the question for me is, is this just like, like in prime age, that's basically

humans, apes, and some others, but we do have this variation. It's not like, say, a black bear where one adult black bear looks pretty much like all the others. There's a lot of morphological variation in Sasquatches. And some of it is, I think, is simply due to age, old adults, mature adults, sub-adults, or young adults. There's that. And then there may be this thing. It's kind of like subspecies.

And it's very apparent in birds when, say, song sparrows here in that Pacific Northwest are very dark in color compared to the center of the continent. And with mammals, too. And so mammologists do study subspecies. And there may well be subspecies of Sasquatches. I think we're just not far enough along, not a large enough sample to say, oh, look, almost all the ones from, say, the southeast have this reddish color, and almost all the ones in another area are much darker. We're on the edge of that.

And it comes to something I unfortunately, keep coming back to, trying to attract, you know, the relevant, the experts in the scientific disciplines who can really help us out. But that hopefully is coming. Yeah. And I understand the question because a lot of times you'll hear witnesses on the show and they'll say it looked more human-like or they'll say it looked more ape-like. And one of the questions, I guess we can kind of delve into it now. And it would make sense to me. I don't know how you feel about it, Doc. But there's a guy in, I'm going to have him on the show. His name's Travis.

He's on my website. He had an encounter down there in Texas. And he had another encounter many years later in Minnesota. And one of the things he thought was fascinating was the ones in Texas didn't seem to have as much hair as the ones in Minnesota. And it almost makes you wonder if that's because of location or is a different type. You know, they kind of seem to match their environment. They do really a job at that. But I think that's kind of these subsets and these subspecies.

Wouldn't you say it would make sense that there would be? Yes, I do. I think it makes a lot of sense because there is this thing called adaptation in, well, let's say in mammals, where after years and years and years, animals are more adapted to, well, say, Texas, you know, I don't know, hot, I don't know if you're water, you know, and say, not even the Pacific Northwest, but way up in Alaska, even the Arctic. obviously, having more fur covering, more hair covering is an advantage. And I guess the question then becomes, is this genetic?

And this is where we come down to are these actually subspecies, quite that that continues through the breathing. And again, I don't know, but I think, you're right, I think it does occur. I guess that's very helpful. Yeah, no, no, no, I understand what you're saying. I mean, you've got to be, you can speculate, but you can't really say for sure because we don't have one that we can ask or a dead one we can go look at, you know, and study. So a lot of speculation with this. Pam Purple Rose, you know, Todd Standing came out with his documentary on Netflix. And I personally thought he did a good job with it.

She wants to know what is his opinion of Todd Standings discovering Bigfoot film? I guess I saw it once very early on, and I tend not to watch these things after a while, because I'm concerned. As you know, we have not had many opportunities to present the Sasquatch as a subject of scientific research. So we're quite dependent on things like television documentaries. And sometimes things seem to work out really well, and you feel, oh, gee, I thought it was really fairly presented. They seem to ask the right questions, and I think I was able to get some thoughts across in an intelligent manner. Other times it seems to fall short.

You think, oh, shucks, did I really say that in front of the camera? Oh, gee. It's kind of one of those things that I don't know. I just – but, you know, I get disappointed, but that's what I was to say? That's the hand you've been dealt, you know. And at the current time, it's still the hand we've been dealt. We're dependent on documentaries. And, you know, Todd Standings won.

There's others. You just do the best you can, well, that you think you're doing at the time. And you go with it. So I'm glad that person said something positive about it. I don't know what to think. Yeah, I thought you did a good job, in it. You're like me. You're very critical of yourself.

You know, I don't like being on camera. and I, even though I talk for a living, I tend to mumble. And, you know, so I, you know, I understand what you're saying. Do you feel like you were edited fairly on that? Oh, good. Yeah, good. You know, yeah, you know, what can I say? You know, like I said, when you go, what you got here, you hope it's being helpful. And you move on, you know, and even the negative comments are quite helpful because you can say, yeah, yeah, yeah, I didn't handle that very well.

Yes, I should have thought through that better. And that's what I'm doing. And I am trying new approaches because I think I've mentioned this before. I'm starting to develop these, what I call them, research videos, because it's like, okay, John, if you're not happy with the way you're being presented in some of these documentaries, produce your own, you know. Give yourself a 10-minute window on, well, it turns out to be on YouTube. Explain, you know, a certain issue that seems to be a concerned to people.

and so that's what I'm working on now. No, I understand. And you do a good job with those videos. I mean, I post them every time you put up a new one. Well, thanks. It's time for me to get busy and do some more. I've got quite a few in process here. Yeah, well, I can't wait.

You let me know when you post them. Michael, what's that, Doc? I just, well, thanks. Somebody actually waiting for my stuff. Thanks so much, Wes. Yeah, absolutely. I need to hear that. Yeah, I've been waiting, trust me.

I know it's been a while since you put, one up. Michael D. He says, good question, Pam. My question is, how does a Sasquatch survive in the extreme cold without fur? Many sighting reports, loose patchy hair, not fur. How can they regulate themselves to not lose heat when the skin is exposed 24-7? That's actually a pretty good question from Mike. It is. It is a good question, yeah. And I think, you know, well, as a wildlife biologist, I tend to look at the Sasquatch among all the other mammals out there and, you know, bears, wolves, deer. And there are other strategies. I mean, yeah, there is the hair covering or fur covering.

And, yeah, we get these varying descriptions, sometimes quite long, sometimes rather short. But, you know, there are things like, well, you know what the strategy of black bears is to, well, it's not actually hibernation. It's torpor, which is kind of like almost a long time winter sleep. And we do get the true hibernation in brown squirrels. In the wolverine, you get food storage where it actually collects birds, small mammals, other types of food in the fall before winter, buries it in what they call a cash, a bearing site, and maybe a cavity or a small cave, and does not have to sleep or hibernate through the winter, but has this made this food available to it.

Now there are these reports which I hear about, about snow, sorry, salmon being buried in snow at the end of salmon spawning season, presumably to be fed on through the winter by a Sasquatch. That's here in the coast range of British Columbia. And I think, you know, if we can open ourselves up to considering the Sasquatch as one of many, many mammals, we can start looking at some of these other, well, strategies that other mammals use. So it's just, you know, it's kind of hard to get my scientific colleagues to talk about how Sasquatches overwinter when they haven't yet accepted that there is an animal out there trying to overwinter. Yeah, yeah, if you don't believe in it, then these other questions are. We're kind of stuck a couple levels back, it seems.

No, I understand. And this is a good question. I know you're not a foot guy like Dr. Meldrum, but you are an expert as a wildlife biologist. because I know you guys study tracks like there's no tomorrow. He said, could you ask the doc how he feels the foot? Does he think the foot has a mid-tarsal break with flexibility? And is that why when they dropped all fours, they move like a spider? Is it because of that mid-tarsal break,

they're able to move like they can on all fours is what Mark is asking? Yeah. Yeah, well, as you say, this is Jeff Meldum, 4K, and, of course, a very good job of explaining all this. I work on tracks, actually I work on them at a rather basic level simply to establish the Sasquatch as a track-leaving mammals and trying to get around hoaxes, trying to get around misidentified bears and all that sort of thing. But yeah, I mean, this is a thing, because the Sasquatch footprint, in the Sasquatch foot

is so superficially human-like, we tend to assume human, but as Jeff keeps pointing out, You know, the mechanism, the morphology and the way it articulates is really quite different. And yes, and that does lead, you know, to this flexibility and to, gee, acrobatic ability, maneuverability, that we tend not to see. Well, certainly not in the human. You know, our foot is quite rigid by comparison. So I think the answer is, yeah, that's gone a long way to explaining what's going on. And, of course, I always recall that report of yours. It was kind of in an interesting stance.

Wasn't it up on fingertips and toe tips? Yeah, like a spider. I mean, like what you think of a spider. It moved very odd. It did not seem natural the way they move. Let's see. Dovey wants to know. She says, and you can say no comment to this one, Doc, if you want to,

does he have any insight into why the government may be covering up the existence of Sasquatch? And I know being a scientist, you try and avoid the conspiracy, but you can say no comment. Well, a good question and a good point. Well, one does want to, you know, people will bring in conspiracy theory, and it's very, very tempting. And in that second book of mine, and I spent probably half the book looking at it, and it is a recognized kind of phenomenon called scientific resistance. Like, why? What are the various sources? of resistance to a discovery claim, especially a claim which we are making, which is perceived

as a not just an unlikely claim, but far-fetched. I mean, you know, and sometimes we forget just how extraordinary the claim is, where, you know, this seven-foot-tall, 800-pound mammal, not yet catalogued, you know, and we're saying, you know, no, no, no, no, not so fast, you know, we do have all this evidence, you know. But so it's tempting. It's tempting to say, yeah, government doesn't want it to be found. And you know, there are these reports. I don't know what to make of them. What's going on out there? But I guess, you know, I try to, you know, let's put that aside. That's almost, almost an easy out. I'm saying I would like to work with my family colleagues,

those in the relevant disciplines, like, well, mammology, or physical anthropology. and saying, what can we do to move this forward? Isn't this a curiosity? Isn't this something that makes us scratch our heads and wants us to throw some light on it? And I'm still grappling with the idea that the answer seems to be, no, not particularly, we'll just leave it alone. That keeps coming back to me.

And that's why I mentioned, you know, what I'm trying to do to help bring it to the fore, but, you know, for the attention of colleagues and not have to suggest government interference of any sort. Yeah, no, and I know your answer because I've asked you that before in the past. And I probably waffled the same old way. No, no, no, and I understand what coming from. You know, as a scientist, you've got to be careful and getting too wrapped up. That's more my job.

I can go in there and say, yeah, I think they're covering it up. And, you know, I'm just a nobody. but um no no that that's not so and and this is the thing there are you know people like you and people like like rica writing in here these are very genuine these are important questions and i guess what what troubles me is that especially me you know because i am a professional biologist and i think i have a professional responsibilities to say yes let's let's look at that question let's see if we can find the answer and uh yeah and you know i i do keep finding the scientific resistance to be very very, very strong. And I guess what I'm starting to say to my scientific colleagues.

Admitting or I won't say confess, I could say confessing, because confessing to have an interest in this subject is in your best interest. It shows you to be an open-minded scientist, the kind of scientist we thought all scientists were, you know. To keep running away from it, avoiding it, or even worse, treating it with disdain, does not put. put us in a very good light. Yeah, no, and especially if it does come out, you know, the discovery is made. I think a lot of scientists might look a little foolish because, you know, I mean, there's so many people have seen them. Evidence aside, there's thousands of people who have seen this thing.

One of the questions Dovi goes into, she says, I believe Sasquatch are closer to our homes than we know, getting into the garbage bins. And she wants to know if you agree. And if not, where is your assessment as far as where they live? Yeah, a good question, and of course it keeps coming up. And we really want to get this thing categorized, and I understand that. And as you know, I made a, well, I made a stab at it in my first book, 1998, right in the title, North America's Great Ape. And there's another question I know you've sent me coming up. Have I backed off from that?

Well, I think the Great Ape hypothesis is useful because it gives us a category where we see some similarities. some differences. Okay. I just wish, uh, we, I, that's partly my fault, I guess, kind of dwelling on is it ape or is it human. And, you know, I've, in recent years, I've just used a much broader category, basically primates, you know, which just covers both apes and humans. And we don't have to, you know, try to try to be specifically so, trying to nail it down so, so, so, so, so, so tightly. But so, yeah, as I say, I think we should not ignore the Great Ape hypothesis. And these are some of the new research videos I'm working on because there's some very helpful explanations here. If we are willing to consider that as a hypothesis, you know, and with a hypothesis, we use it as long as it works, as long as it sort of explains things.

And if it fails to do so, fine, we have to discard it for another one. But there again, you see, there are those relevant scientists out there that could help much more than people like me. You know, the people, well, the physical anthropologists in particular who really do have a good understanding of apes and humans and the differences and similarities. And we could be moving ahead on this with, well, what I keep referring to as informed comment. And that's what I'm waiting for. Yeah, they do. a lot of their behavior is like a non-human primate. You know, I just had Troy on the show earlier,

and he was describing his encounter of this thing coming out and shaking the brush. And I asked him, I said, have ever seen, and he said it was just thrown a fit? But I asked him, I said, have ever seen on YouTube like a gorilla or a chimpanzee do a display like that? And he goes, that's exactly what it was like. This thing looked more human like in the face, but he said the way it acted was very much like a non-human primate. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Yeah, and you know what I mean, gee, the early reports, you know, ape man, you know, that just kept coming up, didn't it?

Yeah. So, and others, you know, insisting on guerrilla and other people insisting on humans. So, you know, and there is this variation. And I think we just have to accept that and keep working and keep collecting an archiving reports as you are doing. When finally the sample size will get large enough that we can now start talking about. Oh, you know, it does maybe lean more this way. way and that way. But at the same time, you know, and again, our physical anthropologist colleague could help us, you know, they do not insist like we once did on this bold line separating humans from

apes. And that is problematic because we don't, some people really, they want that line. They want that line. You got your apes, you got your humans. Well, you know, it seems to be kind of an array. You know, there is this almost like a gradation. And some of us are pretty uncomfortable with that. Yeah, very uncomfortable with that. But you're right. There is that, you know, depends, I think, on who you talk to. But witnesses are very clear on what they saw, you know, and not every one of these things looks alike.

So I understand what people think that they're people. If that's what they've seen, and that's what they witnessed, I get completely where they're coming from. I think most people see it and think it's more of an animal, more of a, a gorilla, and because that's what they saw, but it almost makes you wonder, are they seeing a subset of each creature? Are they seeing something completely different or just on a different, you know, trajectory on the family tree? It really makes you wonder, I want to ask you, Doc, and I know you can't answer this question, but do you think their numbers are increasing? Well, my simple answer is, I have no idea, but I, why would you suggest that?

Well, and I don't... More reports? Yeah, the reason why I suggest that is you'll start to see more and more and more and more reports. And they're newer reports. And I'd like to graph it someday, but I don't know if it's people are seeing them more or we're more aware of them as a community. And it's okay to talk about it now. But I guess I would think that just off of reports, you know, if there were some animal that we just know, we couldn't find, then why is it going through the dumpster next to some guy's farmhouse property?

You know, it just seems like we're encroaching on them. And I almost think their numbers are getting larger. I can't prove it on paper. It's just my feeling. Yeah. No, no, I'm curious with it. I didn't mean to put you on the spot, but I've heard other people suggest that. And I guess, you know, where I'm sitting here, I'm still seeing this dilemma.

You know, and I do get report sent to me. And, oh, a lot of email reports, they almost always start off. No, I don't want you to use my name, and I don't want to be on record, but this is what I saw back in 1975. And people have been sitting on a report for, what, 30, 40, years and longer. And basically, they're saying, and it's bothering me, you know, well, yeah, of course it would bother you. But, and I think, I think maybe, and again, it's the efforts like yours, it's becoming a little easy, to come forward. There's, you know, there's anonymity, and I always

offer anonymity of someone, because I want to use some of these reports, but I always say, I don't need to know your name, I don't need to know your town, you know? But gee, you've given us a really good description. May I, may I use it? So, yeah, I think there's more, I think, I think maybe

that's a big part of it. People are feeling a little more confident in reporting them. Yeah, I don't know that. No, yeah, I mean, it's hard to say. I mean, it's one of those questions. Who can answer that question? You know, I was curious on what your thoughts were.

I know Nobby and Christopher's questions are kind of the same. Yeah. Does the doctor consider that it may be a species of man? And then Christopher wants to know if that's the way you fill, where in the fossil record would you put it? I guess I spend a lot of time out of my depth, and that's clearly out of my... See, they're getting Jeff Mildum, who's...

Pretty good. More than pretty good at this is a good one to speak. For me, I don't think in most cases we are speculating. I think, well, I hope I am offering what I keep referring to is informed comment. I am not sufficiently informed to offer much there. So I better bow from that. Thanks, thanks for thinking I might have had a good opinion on that. Yeah, well, you're probably one of the smartest men I know, so I thought I'd asked you. Well, no, but I do try not to come back to this, but there are, you know, professional scientists amongst this who could say, you know, based on this, based on that, I would say it's closer to, say, parathipus, or some good ones, yeah.

You know, when I look at their feet, I see human. You know, you see the five toes. It looks very human-like when you look at the foot. And then sometimes when you get the descriptions of them looking more manlike in the face, it seems like it would make more sense that they would have a foot more like an ape than a human. Don't you think being out there in the weather and everything? Well, maybe, yeah, I don't know. I mean, there is this concept of plausibility.

You know, something seem more plausible than others. It's more likely. That's fine up to a point, but we can get caught up in plausibility, saying, well, it's implausible that this thing is here in North America. Well, I guess it is. But unfortunately, well, unfortunately, but fortunately or unfortunately, the evidence points is that way. It is here.

Cilling it down might take a while. Yeah, let me ask you, Doc. Do you ever look into other cryptids? Actually, I tend not to. Not that I'm closed-minded. It's just that I think what expertise I have bears... quite closely on this one. Are you going to ask about the canine?

Yeah, yeah, there seems to be more witnesses coming forward. Yeah, I know. And I honestly don't know what to make of it. I'm not, you know, close-minded about it. I keep hearing about it. I'm just saying I'm doing poorly enough with the Sasquatch, which I think I know something about, that I just better keep my head down

when it comes to things like that. Actually, you know what, Doc? I want you to look at are you able to get on the internet while we're doing this? Yeah, okay, sure. Hang on one second. A listener sent me these tracks, and I'll put the tracks underneath this episode, and I just sent them off to you, Doc.

If you get a chance, we look at those and tell me what you think, that is. And I'll tell you a little bit, this is in West Texas, middle of the desert. He's having something come in and kill his animals, and he found these tracks. He sent him to me. At first he didn't really want to send anything, but he sent him off, and he just said, hey, what do you think this is? And I'm curious to have you look at him and tell me what you think that is. Oh, well, I see them, yeah, interesting, yeah.

I was thinking it looked like a raccoon, but it looked like a freaking... Yeah, I would probably be like every other scientist says, I don't want to give an opinion kind of off the top of my head like this, and there's always the problem of the backstory, that sort of thing. So, yeah. Can I hold off for now? Yeah, no, no, absolutely. When I looked down my thought raccoon, but I think he wears a size 14. That must be a monster. Yeah, but, you know, this is the thing. You see, you've kind of hit something on the head here, you know, and I'm always trying to think of, like, one of the, I don't see what I call it, it's a strategy.

I have this really a nice collection of sequential tracks that I purchased just late last year. So I've got three tracks in a row all from one trackway that the people who collected them took good photographs of the tracks, made good cast of them. And I'm starting to send good copies of these tracks to mammologists, curators of mammal museums, museums of natural history, university department, saying, you know, this is the sort of thing that we as professional scientists in this area of, well, mammology, should be looking at at. And I'm trying to think of what it's like for them. This box of material arriving on their desk as a donation to their museum collections saying, whoa, whoa, whoa, where does this come from? What's going

on here? Who is this person who sent this to me? And that's kind of a legitimate concern, you know, and of course, as soon as the name, well, in this case, Bigfoot comes up saying, oh, there's already I think I can say there's already kind of a prejudice against it. Yeah, I don't think. I'm just giving you the sort of idea that I do understand the resistance, this scientific resistance to this claim we're making, well, and to the evidence we're trying to bring forward for their scrutiny. Is that helpful?

That is helpful, you know, and if you would just take those tracks, I'll tell you something else about that. Those tracks I just sent you, he doesn't believe in Bigfoot. And so he doesn't know what it is that's coming in. And he was just like, man. And so I thought, you know, I got you. So, you know, maybe you can share it around. Well, and often I find, you know, it's a case maybe of not so much being skeptical,

but of being agnostic saying, and these are people who originally say, oh, I'm very skeptical. And you talk to them, and they find out, well, I actually don't know. I haven't seen any of this evidence they're talking about. and I'm actually not sure, you know. I actually would like to hear a scientist from, you know, such as museum, get their opinion. So, yeah, there's this agnosticism, which basically says, I don't know, which is a very, well, to a very honest position. Anyway. No, and I appreciate you looking at them for me.

Well, you know, I look forward to that, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I hope you don't feel like I was trying to put you on the spot. You know, they were just sent to me, and I was like, I have no idea what these are. Well, you know, I get ideas. You know, these are good for me when you and I talk and your readers and listeners call in, because I'm wondering, what should I be do? You know, I've reached this stage where I'm trying to wind up some of my research. I've got a couple of projects still on the go with vocalizations and tracks,

and I'm now, I guess it sounds, I don't know if it's a strategy. I'm trying to make it a little less comfortable for my scientific colleagues to to dismiss this evidence out of hand without giving we the public the benefit of their scrutiny and of their, you know, I mean, there are these people around well qualified to provide informed comment, and they're not providing that comment, and in some cases they still treat the discovery claim with disdain. And that's troublesome. Someone someday, historians of science, down the road, is going to say, gee, what's wrong with you guys? Why did you keep pushing this thing away?

You could have made your reputation, bringing this thing into the office, shedding some light on it, providing help and assistance for a lot of people who are genuinely suffering. And I keep coming back to this, not so much an email, but certainly in the telephone conversation. people have seen something and they are distressed. And, you know, they doubt their sanity. And yeah. Yeah, so it's hard. Yeah. I just feel this should not be as prolonged a situation as it is.

Yeah. No, I tend to agree with you. And, you know, at this point, trying to study this creature, and I love when you come on, and I think the audience loves it when you come on, to try and give your scientific answers to some of these questions. I know you can't give sometimes the answer that they want to hear, but I always respect your opinion and your answers to some of these questions. And the thing is, though, I can tell you this, Doc, the people that listen to the show, I'm telling you, they know more than most researchers out there. They know a lot about behavior, a lot about descriptions, a lot about, you know, and these fans that listen to the show, you just learn so much from eyewitnesses, you know, that.

that we can't get anywhere else. Where else you're going to, besides reading someone's opinions and ideas, getting right to the eyewitness until we have one dead, I think is the only way. Yeah. Well, thanks. Yeah, no, and this is the thing, you know, and, you know, it's almost like, gee, people like you and your listeners, you know, they share information with me. And, of course, when you go to conferences, people come up afterwards,

look at this photograph on my cell phone, and oh, my goodness, you know. And so this is evidence being brought forward. So there is an obligation to, you know, where does this fit in? Well, it fits in with this thing we refer to as the Bigfoot phenomenon. And it is treated as a phenomenon. And, yeah, in fact, well, I happen like the word unfolding discovery. But as we've talked, you know, at other times, it's almost beyond unfolding. Some of us think the discovery has unfolded.

We're simply waiting for acknowledgement that there is this existing North American mammal awaiting better treatment. Yeah, hopefully we get to the discovery. I know it's been a long time coming for you. Oh, I was going to say, and sooner rather than later. Not just for me, but all sorts of people. Yeah. Well, what's new for you, Doc? What do you have coming up?

Just my next thing, you know, someone has come alongside and he wants to run. write a biography of my efforts, which is very kind of him because he says, you know, beyond all the evidence you're bringing forward in the research, there is a story about a scientist, you know, who is convinced by the evidence, finds the evidence convincing enough that he feels it should get greater attention. So he wants to talk about things I've tried and worked and, you know, conference presentations, books, now the research videos. And so my latest thing is working with some of these really good plaster casts and other evidence that brought to my attention and get this to, well, what we used to call the movers and shakers.

Like when you have a new book out, you're always trying to get it reviewed by the movers and shakers in the field who are able to attract attention to the book. Well, I pretty much failed at attracting the attention of movers and shakers, but I'm going to try again with kind of another, what, another bow in one's quiver. and actually I'm doing an online interview or a telephone conversation with an amologist this afternoon, a curator of mammals saying, you know, I've got these really good Sasquod's track cast that I'm trying to bring forward. It's almost like trying to shake the bars of the cage. Look at this, look at this.

Yeah. You can't make, you know, scientists look at evidence. you can, boy, but I can get it into their hands. I guess that's the next stage. Getting material into their hands, and here's another way to look at it. Does this work for you? And you're the best man to do it, John, because I think a lot of the scientists, they, you know, they wouldn't listen to me, you know, and I'm a nobody, but, you know,

a doctor, they'll listen to what you have to say, and I'm glad that guys like you and Meldram, you know, stuck your neck in. Well, yeah. Well, thank you. You know, and I feel that, you know, that is, that is. professional obligation. I mean, gee, like I got my PhD in the state of Wisconsin,

and gee, the Wisconsin taxes were something like 15% for higher education. It was incredible. I was a benefitter from my benefit who got the the master's in PhD out of all that. Well, I thought that's great. So I can send some stuff back maybe to Wisconsin,

maybe elsewhere, saying, oh, wow, see, this is a thing. I'm saying things like, I can help you. Well, it's not like, But my scientific colleagues are saying thanks, but no thanks. They're just saying, hmm, and they're not responding. Yeah.

But I'm going to keep trying. Yeah, please do. And if you do that documentary, let me know. I'd love to have you back on. I'll buy it. I'll watch it. Yeah. I'd love to watch it.

Yeah. Yeah. We'll see how it goes. Yeah, work away. Well, I appreciate you coming on, John. Oh, thanks. Good for me, Wes. And thanks for those good questions.

You know, maybe not so helpful, but they're helpful to me. to hear what people are asking. Yeah, no, I'm glad that you came on. It's been too long. And like I said, Doc, anytime you're always welcome on. Well, thanks. Let's try this again, see if I can make a little progress and we'll do it again. Thanks, John.

And that's it for tonight, everyone. Remember, if you've had an encounter, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. If you get a chance, please check out the website, Sasquatch Chronicles.com. It's been a long show. If you made it this long, God bless you. Thank you so much for listening. I will see you guys next time.

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