Sasquatch Chronicles - SC EP:406 The Sasquatch Savant Theory

Episode Date: February 16, 2018

Christopher Noël returns to the show as we discuss behavior. Chris puts forth a theory that the behavior you see and hear about with Sasquatch is very close to the same behavior we see in humans who have autism. In Chris's book The Sasquatch Savant Theory he writes "Although we cannot yet study the psychology of Sasquatch directly, we are in good position already to make educated guesses about their mentality based on behavioral analysis. Skeptics are fond of asking, as though no answer were remotely possible, "HOW could an eight-foot-tall primate exist undiscovered in our back yard?" Meeting the issue head-on, THE MIND OF SASQUATCH outlines the Sasquatch Savant Theory, revealing a personality profile of the species that differs substantially from any offered before. Sasquatch are hardwired by evolution to conceal themselves, interacting with us only in a mediated, indirect fashion. Their tactical genius and other striking abilities mirror gifts seen in people known as autistic savants." Should be an interesting night discussing behaviors of these creatures.   I will also be speaking to Claudia Ackley who will be sharing her encounter and talking about her lawsuit against California State.

Black thing go from left to right, and I thought, I'm going to die out here and no one's ever going to know. I couldn't believe what my eyeballs were showing me. I'll never forget how evil the eyes were. It was horrible. I mean, I've never seen nothing that evil. It ran towards me at a rate that I can't even explain, turned and stared at me. And this look of, I just want to kill you. I want to say it was human, but it wasn't.

He was yelling out, and he grabbed a gun, grab a gun. I was like, for what? He said, just grab a gun. And there's footprints all the way to the door of my house. It had went inside my garage all the way to the door. 911, what are you reporting? Get somebody out here. What's going on now, sir? That son of a bitch is about six foot, nine, I don't know.

Do you see him now, sir? Yes, I'm looking right at him. Uh-uh. You're listening to Sasquatchew. Chronicles. Check us out online at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. If you've had an encounter, email me. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. Welcome to the show, everyone. Thanks for being here tonight. Got a great show planned for you this evening. I'm going to be speaking to Christopher Noel. And Chris actually holds a master's degree in philosophy from Yale University.

You know, he's taught at Vermont College. And Chris is a think, and I like that. And tonight, he wanted to talk about his savant theory with Sasquatch and how he kind of ties in some behaviors you'll find with people who have autism and Sasquatch. And when he first told me his theory, I was like, I don't know about that. But the more of him and I talked, I was like, you know, there is some coincidences between the two. So we're talking about behaviors tonight.

Chris will be sharing his theory. And then I'll also be having Claudia Ackley on the show. she's going to share her encounter that happened out in California, which led her into suing the state of California for a recognition of the Sasquatch. So we'll get into all of that tonight. If you've had an encounter, then you'd like to be on the show. Shoot me an email.

My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. And if you get a chance, check out Sasquatch Chronicles.com. You can become a member, get additional shows. Check out the site if you get a chance. Let's jump into it tonight. I want to welcome Chris back to the show. Chris, how are you doing tonight? Good, good.

Thank you. Thanks for having me back. No, I'm glad to have you back. I enjoyed the last time I had you on, and, you know, I mentioned your books, and you mentioned right before we went on the air, the podcast, nearness to you. And it's on, I'm sorry, it's on YouTube. Is it under Impossible Visits, or how can people find that on you? Yes, it's my YouTube channel, Impossible. visits and it's called the nearness of you, Sasquatch on the boundaries. And the focus is very

narrow, it's just about the closeness, the physical closeness of Sasquatch to us and how you don't have to go way often in the wilderness to have encounters and experiences and to find evidence. And I've had four episodes so far and they've gone really well and I have three more scheduled. And so so far I've been releasing them every Monday morning. I hope to keep up with that. pace. Very cool. So if you're out there, get a chance, go listen to it. I wanted to talk to you tonight. We were going to talk about behaviors. And there was, gosh, probably two years ago. I remember you were talking about the Sasquatch, the Savant Theory. And you even wrote a book about it. It's on iTunes, the Sasquatch Savant Theory, three books and one. If you would... It's not on iTunes. It's on Amazon. Oh, did I say iTunes? Yeah, I think you've got iTunes on the brain. I think you're right. You're right. But for the audience, kind of explain this savant theory that you have.

It's called the autistic savant theory, and savant theory for short. And like everybody else, I've long been mystified by how in the heck the species does what they do, how they remain so elusive. I mean, how can they be? This is the main stumbling block for people believing in the reality of Sasquatch. How can they be? six, seven, eight, nine, ten feet tall, and still manage to avoid discovery and in large part avoid even detection. So, you know, some people think that the adults teach the young ones how to do that and that they explain to them how bad humans are and how dangerous we are and how untrustworthy and that we must be avoided at all cost and that they hand down these. kind of rules of behavior. And then these rules are applied consciously. You know, the Sasquatch are thinking, okay, there's some humans.

I've got to steer clear of them. And the more I thought about it, the more I realized that that just doesn't quite seem plausible because conscious choice has more variation than that. And the stunning thing about Sasquatch is the uniformity, you know, that they never make big mistakes ever. We'll see them briefly. And then they, the mistakes that they do make, they can remedy right away by, you know, regaining the distance from us. You know, and they'll sometimes play chicken with cars out on the road, but then they run away. Even if they get side-swiped, they're never downed. They run away. So they never seem to make mistakes that have irreversible

consequences for the whole species. The mistakes are minor slip-ups. So I thought, well, the individual Sasquatch, wouldn't some of them be rebels or, you know, be transgressive and decide to not follow the rules? I mean, that's how things go when there's conscious choice. So the more I thought about it, I thought, the more I realized it had to be something deeply hardwired. So then I thought, well, how could that be explained? Is it something that's hardwiring. would even look like? Or is there perhaps something that we already know that some psychological syndrome or cluster of traits that we could turn to that's familiar to us that we could try to apply to Saskatch behaviors to you know over the years I'm thinking about it thinking about it

and the similarities to autism began to emerge for me like five years ago? And you know at first only a few parallels came out to me. And I thought, well, there's a great degree of visual intelligence that they must have. And in fact, they must have a photographic memory and memorize every square inch of their territory or square foot of their territory at least and all the topography in order to so skillfully manage the terrain and steer clear of us and notice when any changes take place like a trance. trail camera put up or some trick that's trying to be played on them. And they never seem to fall for these tricks. So one explanation would be that they just are highly visually oriented and

ingenious and photographically remember everything. And a lot of autistic people, especially autistic savants who are on the genius end of the autistic spectrum, equipped with photographic memory too. And so then I thought, well, what else? Lots and lots of reports of people seeing Sasquatch swaying back and forth, swaying and swaying, you know, behind a tree in the moonlight or in various circumstances. People see them swaying. And then in my research about autism, well, I mean, not even in the research, it's very commonly known. A trait of autistic folks is often that they will do these what they call stims,

which is short for stimulation or self-stimulation, which is not to be confused with anything sexual. It's the self-soothing kind of thing. They'll sway back and forth. They'll flap their hands. They'll snap their fingers. They'll clap. They'll bang on things.

They'll rock, sit and rock. And so I thought, well, that's swaying. That's kind of interestingly similar. The more I thought about it, the more similarities came out. autistic people often will too by eating on things and drumming autistic people had a client who would wear a drum around his neck and you would constantly be tapping on it

just to kind of calm himself down and to kind of ground himself what's one thing that Sasquatch would be is not to do if they want to remain stealthy and that's being constantly banging in trees and that's how we know where they are if they didn't do that and if they didn't build structures elaborate structures that we find, their success at being mysterious and unknown would be,

you know, a hundred times more available to them. And then I started thinking about structures and researching more into autism and reading the memoirs of people with autism. And they talked about how important it is to make order because the world seems chaotic to them and especially chaotic are other people. kind of trying to know them or trying to directly look at them and kind of, this, generally speaking, this is a generalization, but the autistic people feels that their true inner self is threatened with being kind of overwhelmed by the other, which is other people.

And so they find the whole world very, very, and so they often train schedules or they'll say things over and over and over. YouTube videos of autistic parents will show their children, parents of autistic children rather, will show those children lining things up, popular order, and then knocking them down and stacking them again, and making symmetrical formations out of objects. And in many cases, these are very, very similar to the structures that we find in the woods. So I thought, well, there's another interesting parallel. Some people object to my savant theory.

That's my train of thought. No, some people object to it. Is it because you're saying it's more... I don't know that much about autism. I've been around kids who are autistic. And they're awkward, but they're also very intelligent, but intelligent in different ways. Right.

And every autistic kid I've been around. You're right. It's different from most kids in the sense that... And it might have just been his personality, but there was no, he didn't like it when I came right up to him and, you know, put my hand out to shake his hand and just, almost like it was kind of threatening. And I just thought, well, I'm a big guy. Maybe he just sees me that way. Maybe I need a different approach. But there was a, he was very untrustworthy of anyone new. And he did have a lot of what you're talking about. And I'm just curious, is that why people get upset as because you're comparing it to this autism to Sasquatch? Is that what you mean?

Well, some people do, but thank you. You reminded me where I was going with that. They think I'm reducing Sasquatch to having a mental illness or disorder. And in fact, I'm talking about the high, the highly, the high functioning autistic people, especially with mental functions, with understanding systems and understanding, like, there are test grandmasters who are autistic. You know, that's the kind of person that I'm drawing a parallel to. And they also say, well, how can a whole species have autism?

That's ridiculous. And then my comeback is, well, autism is a highly heritable condition. Lots of times it runs in the family of human beings. And if it runs in the family and it's heritable, that means it's genetically based largely. And that means that it could easily run in a species. There's a great book called Songs of the Guerrilla Nation by Don Prince Hughes, who herself is autistic. And she felt that she never was in communion with another person, quote unquote person, until she was with the guerrillas in the San Diego Zoo.

And she felt that their way of existing was very, very much like her own way of existing, a kind of timelessness, a kind of way of indirectly interacting with one another. and that was another parallel that came out to me was the fact of indirectness. And you say this boy that you tried to approach, he wouldn't allow himself to be approached directly. And that's the thing with both autistic people and Sasquatch, can correct me if they know of something else.

But there's only want to say organisms or beings on contact, human contact, but indirectly. Autistic people do not want to be all on their own. They are able to and thrive on communicating with autistic people, but they do it in this indirect fashion. Like there are these cards, these symbolic cards that you can use with them where they can pick out symbols and explain what they're thinking and what's going on for them with these symbols rather than talking or looking you directly in the eyes. they can use these symbols. And there's all sorts of kind of out of the side of the eye observation that goes on with them and communication that comes in different forms.

Like, again, my friend who used to work with autistic people, he would find what he called treasures that were hidden for him by this one client. And until he found the treasure in the morning and said, oh, I love it, I love it. His client would keep a cold shoulder toward him. And then once he found the treasure, that was kind of a gateway toward a greater richness of communication with this person. And in the case of Saskatch, of course, they will leave us gifts. They'll arrange things on porches or objects around the yard or they'll take objects for a month and then return them.

They often communicate through objects, and that's exactly what artistic people do. And so, you know, Sasquatch don't just avoid us. also approach us. They make overtures toward us, but in this indirect, mediated kind of fashion through objects. And so the more I thought about it, the more I realized there really is something to these parallels. I've identified about a dozen different parallels. And it is interesting. You mentioned objects that kid I was telling you about. And I don't know if there's anything to the theory, Chris. I find it fascinating hearing it. But one of the things I know with him is he would have to line up his cars in a specific manner.

Exactly. And if his cars weren't lined up, and he wouldn't really play a whole lot with his cars, he just wanted to see them all lined up in a specific manner. That's exactly it. That's very, very typical of autistic people. And, I mean, I think I mentioned last time, this woman in Ohio named Snow White Bigfoot,

I mean, that's not her name on her birth certificate. Yeah, I get it. But that's what she goes by on YouTube, and she has been communicating through objects with her local Sasquatch group for more than two years. And she, in fact, has put cars on the railing of her porch, and she's had new cars introduced to the grouping all lined up perfectly, cars and other toys that apparently the Sasquatch got from other houses in the area. And, you know, like, it's sort of like this rotating visitation going on where her things will disappear.

here and she'll get new things from elsewhere. And they're very symmetrical and lined up. And just like this kid that you saw, that makes them feel good. That makes them feel that their world is in order. You know, they'll do that with human objects like toys and things, and they'll also do it with their own kind of objects like rocks and sticks and trees and like that and branches.

and it just seems that, you know, they'll make the forest over into something familiar and homelike and stabilizing and soothing to them so that they'll, they can feel, know what the root of the threat is, but I just have become convinced that it's not just something intellectual, it's something deep inside them. You know, it's just like artistic people don't have a reason, something they can articulate as to why other people are threatening. They just, at their core, deep in their bones, they feel existential threat in other people. Now, one big difference with, if Sasquatch have a version of autism, and I never say that it's 100% the same as human. human autism. One big difference is that Sasquatch are famously able to work together as a group, you know, like a machine, like a well-oiled Swiss watch. They can work together strategically and

tactically in order to accomplish what they accomplish. And whereas human autistic people are usually solitary and everybody else is the other. So it seems to me that in the case of Sasquatch, the other is not their fellow group members, but rather human beings in general. So it seems like the group is all kind of an extension of the same self in a way. And I know I'm being very speculative in that, but what it seems like to me. Yeah, I think it's an intelligent way to look at it and to find comparisons in different things. I realize you're not saying that Sasquatch is autistic, but some other behaviors you can relate to human autism. And I don't know with regard, again, I don't know a whole lot about autistic people.

I just know the kid that I knew, and I love the kid. He, him and I became really good friends, but I would always approach him differently than I would other kids. Like, I would just sit down next to him and talk to him instead of like other kids, you get face to face and, you know, you get down to their level and talk to them directly, but you didn't do that with this kid. And I think he respected the fact that I would do that. So that's interesting that you find correlations. The other thing, too, I don't know if it was his personality or if it was part of autism. So if anyone out there has kids that are autistic, forgive me. I don't know if they have short tempers either, but this kid had a very short fuse.

And he would just blow up over very minor things. He would just explode. Yeah, that's another common trait is the tantrum throwing or the meltdown. And I think we know that Fasker also have that. otherwise we wouldn't hear trees being pushed down all the time. But they have it in a controlled fashion. They don't, they don't, you know, if they do things at your house, they don't lose control.

You know, they'll slap on the side of the house or they'll throw pebbles on your roof or they will peek in the window briefly or, you know, they will knock in your tree line or they'll break branches. But it's all on their terms and they maintain control. And I think that when autistic people have tantrums, it too is a gesture of regaining or maintaining control of a situation. They're exerting force and they're exerting their own power onto the environment. So they're gaining control by that so they don't feel overwhelmed. You know, sometimes it's probably just lashing out in anger.

But in Sasquatch, they don't do it in a way that compromises their security. They don't push a tree down in the middle of the yard. They do it off 100 feet away, so you can hear it. You know, and you can hear the screams sometimes. That is kind of a, what would you call it, a kind of an explosion of. And so I think they do have tantrums, but control is one of the central features that we can understand. that Sasquatch have to have to possess in order to accomplish what they do. And I think if they didn't have this whole cluster of traits that we've been going through,

I just don't think they would have succeeded for thousands of years at remaining on the fringe of human awareness and avoiding, you know, one of their main is not being believed in. You know, that's what allows them to continue to exist as they do. and the people say, well, if they don't want to be believed in or known, then why are we trying to out them? Why are we trying to, you know, take the veil away? And my answer always is that I think it's 100, given the curiosity and the ingenuity of the human species, it's 100% inevitable that we're going to find out about these creatures.

That might be next Thursday, and it might be 55 years from now. And I think it's important for people who think that they are having genuine insights into how these animals are. And I count myself among those. I could be wrong, of course. I could be 100% wrong with everything I'm saying. But I think that I and others are actually onto something about how they are, how they're not monsters, how they're highly, highly fine-tuned cognitively and behaviorally and control. and their precision and everything in that direction is the opposite of being of control monster.

So I think that given it's inevitable that this creature generally and that it's going to be generally recognized by the human race, it's important to frame the reality in the right way so that the media to just spike fear so that they can spike ratings. I think that the more we can shed a light on the genuine nature of this species and how there are zoological next of kin, and not some other. In fact, as we were talking about last time, I believe that Melma Ketchum is correct and that they are a human hybrid. So there are close, close cousins, far closer to us than chimpanzees and gorillas. And we need to know them, to know who they really are and how they. really are, before discovery. That's why, you know, I and others who are trying to draw a bead on and are doing it. So the structure of explanation or description in place by the time that,

so that that can kind of back against hysteria that's sure to come. Yes and no. I mean, I tend to agree with you, Chris, on it to a certain point. I think that these things can be very vicious, and I think that they can be monsters. I mean, you talk about reality. well, let's talk reality. The reality of the matter is most encounters really aren't happy encounters. Most encounters are very aggressive encounters. Not always. You know, I'm willing to concede and say that there is happy encounters.

There is, you know, decent encounters. But if your reality is you're on your property and you like to trade pebbles with these sayings and, you know, you haven't been harmed one bit and, you know, you leave it three pebbles and it leaves you one pebble, that's fine. I got no problem with that. my only advice is to be very careful what you're dealing with because we really don't know what we're dealing with. And so I think that they, I guess what I'm trying to say is they do have a very monstrous

side to them. And so you have to look at both sides of the coin. And so wouldn't you agree with me, Chris, you've got to kind of look at the whole picture too as well, not just the good stuff. Yeah, I'm glad you said that because that makes for a more substantive debate that if you just, you know, agreed with me. And I do, I've heard of many of these. and I've heard many on your show,

and I think that they do happen, just like human sociopaths exist. I'm sure SASCorpososos exist, and then the question is, what proportion are these? Are they one-tenth of one percent, or are they 25 percent? You know, and we can't know that yet.

But certainly the shadow side exists, and there are cases of aggression, as you have highlighted. I just think the, From what I've heard, it's the extreme minority of cases. But, you know, we can't really nail that down because we're just hearing different anecdotes on both sides. Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's fair to look at both sides of that, you know, and even some of the strange stuff that goes on in it, I think if you truly are, and I mean this for the audience, not you Chris, but if you're truly interested in this subject and you truly in your heart want to find out what these things are, then you have to be.

be willing to look at everything. You have to be willing to listen to everyone, even though, you know, like, for instance, Chris and I disagree on a lot of things. But there's a lot of things we can agree on. We can sit down and agree on and go, yeah, you know what, like a savant theory. I mean, there is a lot of correlations between someone with autism, the little I know about it, and then how Sasquatch acts. You know what I mean? And so I love putting... And I'll just, for people who want to pursue this, I'll just, I'll just drop in and the fact that So four years ago, I put all this together into a book called The Mind of Sasquatch and the Secret to Their Success, which was called, and then it was called a theory. So I wasn't saying this is the answer.

I was saying, this is my theory. And I like that theory. You know, test it, test it. And so, you know, you can find out more about this theory that way. And then I have a big book with two books about it. Sorry, a big book that contains three books, and it's called the Sasquatch Savant Theory, and it contains both the mind of Sasquatch I, The Mind of Sasquatch 2, which is a follow-up, and then a novel I wrote about a girl who is an autistic savant and is feeling herself alone in the world

in terms of human beings, and then is sort of taken in, in a indirect way by a Sasquatch family living in the woods, and she finds comfort in interacting with them. And there's some aggression on their part, too, actually, come to think of it, but not directed at her, directed at targets, human targets that deserve it. And I'm not saying that your guest on your previous episodes have deserved it, I'm just saying, in this case. But my new book is called Next of Kinn Next Door, How to Find Sasquatch, a Stones Throw Away, and that's just about the nearness of them

and various case studies of people interacting with them and finding evidence of them right outside of town. The city and in city parks, you know, in a way that is mind-boggling, but hard to argue with when you see the exact evidence that they collect.

It is mind-boggling, you know, especially when you hear of these reports, I mean, I get them all the time, and you're like, man, the city's just,

I know we talked about last time, but it's like, God, you could be in down, you know, the city in 30 miles or less. And here these people are running into this thing right here. And it really makes me stop and go, and I like your theory, I don't want you to think

I'm bumming on your theory, but it makes me stop and go, God, there has to be something else going on here. If this many people are having encounters this close to cities and in their yards and on their properties, either we're on the cusp of this thing blowing wide open or there's something very odd and very strange going on here. with these beings, entities, whatever you want to call them. And that's kind of where I'm at. It's just, it is mind-blowing.

I'm really glad you wrote that book, Chris, because it is something that needs to be talked about, how close they are to us. Yeah, I mean, leading, leading sort of lights in our field, like Jeff Meldrum, whom I have nothing but the highest respect for. He's really a genius, and he's done great, he's made great contributions to our field, probably more than anyone besides Roger Patterson.

But he's of the belief that there are 5,000 of them, and that they live solitary lives and that they're out in the wilderness. And I think he's incorrect on those fronts. I think there's 5,000 of them just in the state of Idaho where he lives, at least, and that they never, hardly ever travel solo. You know, there might be some rogue,

males around, but mostly they're in family groups and strategic groups. Because that's where people see them. They'll hear a knock over there, and they're a knock over there, and behind them, they'll have a stone landing. They're always acting in concert in these little cells, these little tactical units. And they're not just out in the wilderness. They are out in the wilderness, but they're all so close to us. And my hunch is, just that it's always been thus.

I don't think there's been an escalation of it. I think we're just coming to recognize it through the blessings of the Internet and information sharing and our ability to compare notes these days. Maybe I'm wishfully thinking, but I don't think that we're heading toward confrontation. I just think this is their nature. They both may approach us because of that double. double-edged behavioral profile that only autistic people share with them. I mean, if you have a mountain lion, it's not going to both steer clear of you

and come and communicate with you indirectly. If it comes close, it's to eat you. Yeah. But they're not interested in interacting with you in a meaningful way indirectly through, like Sasquash does. Yeah, it is very, and I apologize for cutting you off, of course. It is very, you're right. They do want to, it's almost like they want to interact with you, but they don't really want to interact with you.

And I think you're right. It's more of on an indirect level, you know, like that autistic kid I was talking about. And God, I hope we don't offend people by saying that. Because I, and I don't mean it in a negative way. This kid was probably one of the smartest kids I'd ever seen, but he was smart in different ways. Like his memory of, I mean, he could remember what him and I talked about from the, three weeks prior, you know what I mean? He just, um, he could remember things like I couldn't even remember. Um, or he, that's another thing. Yes, it's that, it's that amazing memory that

that Sasquatch 2 would need to have in order to do what they do. And, um, you know, some people might be offended that we're comparing their autistic children or autistic children in general to some, you know, raging ape, ape man in the woods. Autism is, I, it's, from all we can tell. It's an ancient, it's an ancient cluster of traits. It's an ancient genetic constellation. And other primates have it, too. You know, there's a famous bonobone named Kinsey who can communicate really well, just kind of like Coco does in the gorilla, the gorilla. Koko of the gorilla. Kinsee can do all this symbolic sign language and communicating with, with cards, with pictures, and all sorts of stuff.

son is named Tico and he displays many autistic characteristics. You can Google him and it's the ape with autism. And, you know, so it exists in other primates as well. And so it's not just a human, the human, the homo sapiens have a corner of the market on autism. So people shouldn't feel offended that, you know, that I'm comparing it to something that it shouldn't be compared to. Autism is a genetic syndrome that sometimes results in geniuses that think differently from the front of the mill humans.

It's seen as a widespread, a widespread, before, gorillas have a lot of those traits, too. They sway back and forth. They have a high degree of visual intelligence. They build things that lend order to their world, et cetera, et cetera. So sometime in the ancient past, I think there was that in one of our shared ancestors millions of years ago. And I think that it comes down through history. Bonobos in a certain way, not identical to the human.

And in Sasquatch, in another way that has many affinities with human autism, but not everything overlaps. Yeah, that's true. I love the fact that you had out with that boy in that daycare center because everything that you're saying just resonates with research. I've not been lucky enough to have an autistic friend. Yeah, he's a very sweet kid. And the one thing I could tell you right off the bat is how intelligent he was.

I mean, I could see it right away and I could sense. He didn't like when I came right at him. I was like, hey, how's it going? You know, like I do other kids. And he didn't like that. And I just thought, well, maybe he's afraid of, you know, he sees me as a giant. So having some giant come running at you. I mean, but it wasn't that, you know.

And now he's cool with me when I walk in. He wants to come up and say hi to me. And it took a long time for him to get to that because he would just sit there. And I would just go sit next to him. I wouldn't even look him in the eye, not out of disrespect. I just felt like it made him uncomfortable. But I'd sit down and say, hey, how's your day going? You know, kids being nice.

And is this your new truck? And he would sit and have a conversation. Yeah, well, that's another big difference is that with autistic people, we can sometimes have breakthroughs where we get to another level, a more intimate level of interaction, whereas with Sasquatch, you don't get that. You get, you come up to a certain point. You think, you know, I've been in the woods and I've knocked back and forth with one for, you know, a long period of time and not just 100 yards away, but I'm talking 100 feet away.

And behind that thick screen of trees, I would knock and he would drum. This was a real drumming kind of individual that I interacted with back in 2014. and you think, okay, I'm on the brink. I'm on the brink of, you know, a contact here. It's going to happen. It's going to happen. It's going to. But, you know, you're standing on two sides of a chasm or a canyon.

I'm bridging that canyon. All that this communication back and forth does is accentuate the fact that there's this canyon there, and you can't get over it. And it's very tantalizing and frustrating, but it's the nature of the, just the nature of the relationship that we have. and that we have to accept and take for what it is. So, you know, that's another difference is you can't, you can't gain trust beyond a certain point with Sasquatchez.

Unless you believe that occasionally there are stories where people do, like in the Janice Carter-Coy case with Fox, perhaps the case of clog that was talked about. I don't mean to cut you off. Did you know Janice? No, I do not. I was going to ask, what your opinion on that was.

No, I wish I had an opinion. I just don't know what to think about that. I mean, it's possible that, you know, nothing is 100%. There's probably exceptions to the sort of severity, I'm not the severity, but the intensity of whatever the distance-making imperative is in the species. So there's probably outliers. Yeah, I'm not sure what to think of it either. And most people know that.

Look up Janice Carter, Fox. You guys can read the story online. But there's always been little truths to what she said. I mean, there's stuff I can correlate just off encounters with. Yeah, lots of things ring true. A lot. So you don't know whether that means we should take the whole thing seriously or whether she had a certain stem cells of experience.

And then there was embellishment. You just can't know. Well, yeah. And like I've never had anyone say they had an encounter when Sasquatch came and knocked on the door and asked for garlic. It's just, I've never had it happen. It doesn't mean it won't happen, you know, I don't know, but I've never had anyone with that type of encounter before. Generally, it's growling in windows. It's very animalistic type behavior, even when it's not warranted. Well, this amazing blend of animalistic and human, and it's a

blend, but favor of the other. They're always both at the same time. So that's why there's a limit to how much you can reach out and get really close. You just can't do it. There's a wall. There's an invisible wall. If anybody out there is interested in, maybe nobody is, and I sound pathetic, but if anyone's interested in following up on this theory, you don't, and don't want to read a whole book, there's also, I have a video on YouTube called The Mind of Sasquatch. It's about 50 minutes long, and you can look at that and see what you think. Yeah, and I'll post it in the... I go into more depth about, about this theory.

Yeah, and I'll post it to the website if that's right with you, Chris. Sure, that'd be great. Well, I really appreciate it coming on, Chris. It's always a pleasure for me to talk to you. You know, there's a lot of things you and I can talk about that I generally don't talk to other people about. But I really enjoy it, you know, and you and I can have these conversations like this. And, you know, I'm a huge fan of viewers. So thank you again for coming on.

Thank you, Wes. I really, really appreciate it. And we'll talk again down the lifestyle. Lonely Highway. Yeah, you're welcome. I love you so much. Thank you. You're my brother for life.

I appreciate it. I always have your back. I appreciate it very much. Next up on the show, I want to welcome. Claudia Ackley, Claudia, welcome to the show. Thank you for being here. Thank you so much for having me, Wes. Thank you for taking your time, everybody, to listen to my story.

Yeah, no, I appreciate you being here. I know you're suing the state of California for a recognition of the species, But before we get into that, what led up to this lawsuit? If you would, kind of walk us into the encounter. Okay. Actually, I've had two sightings, one in the state of Washington and one in California near my home. And in 1997, I had something strange happen to me when I was hiking with some roommates of mine. We were in Yosemite alone out there on Upper Falls.

And we heard a really scary growl that one that sends shivers down your spine. And some of you know what I'm talking about. So that started my whole fascination with what was that, you know, and that for years was always in my mind. Like, what was that? You know, and now that I got older and confident, I felt like I want to look into the Bigfoot research just because a friend of mine said to me, like I didn't know about Bigfoot at all, like when I was growing up. So she said, maybe you saw a Bigfoot. So then I started researching about the whole Sasquatch Bigfoot phenomena. all. So to make the long story short, I started making friends on YouTube, not Facebook, but YouTube. And Barbara Shoup, who is in Washington, and a lot of you guys know about her cloak video. And I was there that day. And it looked translucent on the film. But that was me, like, looking at the creature in the woods that day. And it was a soft squash, about five feet tall. And that day was like, for me, it verified, okay, they do exist. And that started my fascination.

stronger. So for years, I was going hiking with a lot of researchers with big names, like Adam Davies. And, you know, I love the people I have met. I'm really grateful they've taught me a lot. And I decided to move to the mountains here in Southern California. And just so you guys know, the culture here in California, like, if you talk about sauce squash in L.A., let's say L.A., people like will laugh at you and like, are you crazy like your own drugs? But in Washington, Oregon, if you talk about the word sauce squash. It's not as taboo as it is here in Southern California. So when I moved my better half, his name is Ed Brown. We wanted to do like a date night. So for some reason, this is awkward, but I have navigation on my phone. We first moved up there. I didn't know where I was,

you know. So sometimes it would lead me to the end of this trail like five times. And I'm like, oh, like maybe this is a good place for us to hike, you know, for a date, you know. So, you know, I didn't have my daughters. They went with her dad for his visit. And I told Ed, let's go on a hike. Let's do something fun together. So we went out that day. We went Facebook live.

Didn't see anything squatchy at all. Like just all, the only thing that was really interesting is on this trail, there's like three trees that have been pushed down. And I'm talking huge trees. So I was telling him, this is weird. You know,

I wonder how these three trees all within 100 feet have been pushed down blocking the trail. So anyway, We left, had a great day. Well, a couple days later, I told my daughters, they're always on like Snapchat and on their phones. I want them to see the beauty of life. I want to be a healthy mom and teach them about nature and what God's given us. So I said, girls, do you want to go on a hike?

And they said, yeah, you know, they were excited. At this time, it was around 6 p.m. And I said, okay, well, we can't stay long because it's getting dark. So as I'm driving there, my daughters really have never been hiking. They've never really gone camping. So I told them, look, there's bears here. It's not like the city anymore. We came from the city.

I said, there's Mount lions. They come and approach you from the back. They're very quiet and sneaky. So you have to always keep your eyes open and never show fear. And then I said, there's also bears. And I said, whatever you do, don't run from a bear. Never run from a bear. And listen to everything I tell you to do.

And they said, yes, okay, no problem. So that day, I gave my 15-year-old daughter. She was 14 at the time, my car keys. And I said, look, here, take these keys, put them in your pocket just in case something happens. And then I took bear spray and my cell phone. And at that time, I was working with hospice patients. So I had like my nursing shoes on. And usually when I go hiking, I carry my boots and I'm really prepared.

This was like just out of the wind, let's go hiking. So the girls and I were hiking. And during this time, my daughter has an iPhone. And she's videotaping, kind of like, you know, having fun. My oldest daughter is in the middle. My youngest daughter is in the front. She's 11 years old, 14 years old in the middle. And I'm in the back.

And I'm always watching where we're going. Like they're having fun skipping, dancing. I'm always looking around. Not for soft squash, just for bears and mountain lions. Because honest, in my heart, I thought this isn't squatchy. Like, we're okay. Like, we're safe. We got this, you know.

I didn't tell them, hey, be careful with the soft squash. Never even mentioned the word saucequatch on that trip. So as we go to the first tree that's been pushed down, my kids are jumping on it. And at that point of view, there's a curve. And whatever is on that side, you could see if you're on a tree. You can see people coming on the trail. So when we passed the last tree, my daughter was in my youngest daughter. She went around the path around the tree to get back on the trail.

And she's skipping. Her hair is like bouncing around. And then all of a sudden I see her look left towards like the right, like she's following something in front of her. And then she puts her hands down and she completely freezes, doesn't move. And as a mom, I'm thinking, so I'm watching her thinking, oh God, I hope she's not seeing something. So at this point, my middle daughter kind of catches up to her. And at that point, my second daughter is completely frozen. And I knew at that point, oh, like they see a bear.

Like I got to run. I got to help them. So I run as fast as I've ever run in my life. And as I'm running behind my daughter, she hears me coming. And she turns around to look to see who's coming. It's me. But she had the most horrific, looked fear in her face. 11 years old, I have never seen that fear in her face ever. And then I passed her and my other daughter

and I run about 20 feet in front of them and boom, he was right there on the tree. And he was, I can't even begin. But people would talk about how big they are just so you guys know in the Washington siding that I had, the creature was about five feet. It wasn't intimidating. And he ran away from us. He was more scared to see us and we were scared to see him. So, For me, this was like my first signing with like an alpha. And let me tell you, like I looked at it and I don't know why, but I kept walking up towards it. Like I didn't stop.

And he's just staring at me. And let me just explain what he looked like. He looked like a Neanderthal man with a lot of hair everywhere. His massive head was about two or three of ours, massive barrel chest. And where I was standing, I thought he was like by the tree watching us. So I was thinking, I was telling my daughters, okay, do you see? see a head, do you see a shoulder as I'm continuing to walk right at it? And my daughters are like, yes, yes. Well, then my daughter starts saying, mom, mom, and my little ones start hyperventilating

crying. And like being in the medical profession, you have to sometimes be aggressive, a little bit assertiveness to whoever's panicking because the one thing you want to do is control your environment. So they teach us in like nursing school, always try to control the environment. Sometimes you have to be tough on the patients or whatever. And at that point, I turned around and I said, girls, stop. Do not panic. Do not run. Just stop. And I don't know. I feel so bad. And they did. They stop for a minute. They kind of like got their poor things. They got their, their emotions at on hold. So I look at him and I'm thinking, oh my gosh, I'm right in front of a soft squash. And I didn't, I could not believe what I was looking at. Even if I know about them, it's for all those researchers out there that go out in the woods. When you're driving, you're walking out there. I never asked myself the most simplest question. What if I do see? one. What are you going to do if it runs to you? What are you going to do if it like attacks you? What are you going to do? Because I never played that scenario in my mind, which is so common. That's common sense is basically what I'm saying. But so at that point, I raised my hands up in the

air and I looked, I don't know why I said this, but I had bears free on my left, my left arm, my cell phone on my right. And I said, hi, I said, we come in peace. And I don't know why I said that. So then immediately I made a loud whoop at it. And at that point, he totally turned a ton and just stared, like stowed me down. And he did not look happy. He did not look like a teddy bear, my friend. He looked like, like just, it was the most scariest look I've ever experienced. I can't even describe it. And he didn't show his teeth. He didn't scream. He didn't growl at us. He just was, he was staring us down. So at that point, I woped at it. And that's when I noticed like he, he was turning his head at this point, looking at the three of us. We were like in the line. So I could see him slightly moving his head,

you know, looking at us. When I whooped at him, he didn't like lay his eyes off of me at that point, which I wanted because I'm thinking if you come up to me, even though I know I can't win a saucewatch, I'm going to do everything I can physically to protect my kids. Like all I was thinking about is how am I going to defend my kids? Like, and I felt guilty like not at that not at that time. Just when I was thinking about things, you know, just I felt sorry that I put them through that. So what happened was I told the girls like slowly turned.

turn around and start walking away and do not show fear. Do not show fear. And they listen to me. And they turn around. I'm walking behind him at this point. And I'm trying to listen to like if he's coming or not, you know, as I'm turning around. And at that point, well, before I turned around, he started rocking back and forth. It was weird. And it started getting faster and faster. It was weird. And I knew at that point, he's either getting nervous or he's about to do something. So we got to go. So we started walking back and I, you know, I saw, I told my girls, it's going to be okay. it's going to be okay. And I'm looking like left, right up like everywhere because I'm imagining them coming like to get us. And thank God, like they didn't. And I turned around right before like we were like I was leaving and I said, thank you for showing yourself.

And Wes, I don't know why I said that. I just was like, thank you for showing yourself. You know, like at that point, you know, I am I saw my car. And let me tell you, I've never been so happy to see my car in my entire life. I was like, thank you God, you know. So when we got in the car, like my daughter's right away, you know, they locked the doors. And my youngest, my middle daughter, my oldest, she said, mom, let's go, let's go. She was like anxious, you know, let's go. And I said, what did you just see? I didn't say the word soft squash. She said, I can't even talk right now. Just please, I want to go home.

Like, that's all she kept saying. I said, okay, we're going to be okay. It's going to be okay. And then my little one is crying. And I said, Jenna, like, what did you just see right now? She goes, well, when I first saw the two of them come out of the side and I go, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, repeat that again. She goes, I saw two of them running across from me and then they ran behind the big one. I said, so how many did we see today?

And she said, three. I said, wow, I didn't see the other two. She goes, oh, mommy, they were there. And, you know, she said, I don't know what that was. And she said, like later she said, like, mommy, you lie to us. Because I always tell them, like, always speak the truth, always be confident, do the right thing. And she said, you said monsters aren't real and they are. And I was trying to tell, like, what do you tell 11-year-olds?

And I said, Jenna, you know what? They could have had us that day. But for some reason, they didn't. And I said, maybe this is an experience for us to help other people. Let's like use something negative to something positive. And she's like, I know. You know, she's very sweet. And then I asked her like, what was the two of them that were running?

What did they look like? And she said, well, the first one, the one in front was giving me a dirty look. As it was running, it was looking at me as it was looking at me as. that was running forward. And I'm thinking in my head, like, can you imagine, like us running in the woods, not looking at where we're going? You know, like there's so much terrain and woods and logs and brush on the floor. And then she said, the one behind it wasn't even looking at me.

And I said, how big were they? Were they as big as a one on the tree? And she said, no, she said they were smaller. I said, okay. So once I got home, I'm at this point shaking, thinking, like, I'm a researcher. Like, I got this. And you know what? The truth is, I don't have it.

I lost, I was like thinking, oh my God, like what, what, what am I doing out in these woods? Like, what am I, I'm crazy, you know? And so, uh, I came home and my, my better half, his name is Ed Brown. I love him. He's my best friend. And I'm thinking to myself, okay, so he's going to ask me. So how was your hike? It was great. Like, we ran into a Sasquatch. Like, really, like, you know, so I came home and he saw all of our faces. He knows me very well when I'm upset. He knows me. And he said, what's wrong? Like, tell me what's wrong. What happened? And I said, Ed, like, I swear to you, we ran into a squash. And at this point, like, I started explaining to him what I was seeing.

He said, Claudia, like, I think you saw a man out there. And I said, Ed, it was a man, but it was a Neanderthal man with a lot of hair, massive, 800 pounds. And then he said, and then my daughter was hearing us talk. So my daughter goes, I videotaped it. I go, wait, wait, what do you mean you videotaped it? She goes, I videotaped it twice. and I come I just my hat goes off to her because like I had my cell phone and I thought in my head like videotape it but then pointing something at this creature you're going to say it was like no like I'm so scared you know so she she showed us a video Ed got on his laptop he tried to like debunk it everything so to make the long story short my daughter's had a rough couple nights that night because you know when you have a sighting like that you can't get that out of your mind and people can understand what that's about and I was trying to help them through it. So we, Ed and I went the

next day and I took my daughter's iPhone. It was the same time a day, almost the same weather and views with my daughter's iPhone that was taken. So we did a comparison like shoot on the tree and I showed him exactly where everything happened. And the thing that we were scratching our heads is this creature was like 30 feet up on a tree. And now this tree doesn't have like limbs for a human to climb. There's like no limbs around this tree until the very top of the tree. It's like a dead tree. So he was like, wow. So some forensic people came over and to help me with it a couple of days after that. And he found a 22 inch print, five toes, a heel. And then when the other two were running where my daughter was telling us that they ran, we found a 13 inch print with five toes. And it looks like it kind of slid in the mud. So that is basically my story of my, of my daughter was telling us that they ran. We found a 13 inch print with five toes. And it looks like it kind of slid in the mud. So that is basically my story of my signing and that I told Ed what I'm going to do is get like just a cheap cardboard and just write what I wrote is I wrote if anybody has experienced anything unusual on this trail please call me I said you will not I will not judge I come with no judgment and I didn't say my name

because I don't want them to Google my name and say oh she's she's a bigfoot girl or whatever so I just left my cell phone number and it's like that's not a that's not a good idea Claudia and I'm thinking you know I could block someone if they start harassing me or whatever so like two days later I start getting phone calls. And it was like first an older couple. And she's like, I have had experiences there. This was owned by Indians. And she said, we heard the most scariest like growl that we were walking by.

They get off the trail. And they were to the point where they were shaking and they were holding their dog, picked up their dog because they thought it was like a mountline. And they were trying to research that growl. And they couldn't find an animal to that growl that they heard. But they never looked into like the Bigfoot thing. You know, they didn't know. So I told them what happened.

And they were like, that answered a lot of questions for them. The second call I had was a man who has a younger brother and they were here on vacation visiting their friend. And the little brother was like, take me on a hike. Like, let's do something fun. So he went out with his brother on that trail and he said he saw an albino saucequatch by the tree. And he said he was like so scared. And I asked him questions like, I didn't say why I wrote the note.

I just said, please tell me your experience. I was trying to be smart by not having people just lie to me basically. Yeah, no, I understand. Yeah, the third woman said, I live off that trail. I've never had an experience, but there are horrific screams like a woman being raped. And I said, okay, it makes sense. And then I explained everything to her. And she was like kind of panicked, you know.

So the fourth guy, he said, I won't tell you what happened to me on this trail, that he said, all I have to say to you is I walk with my gun and my dogs every single day on that trail to make sure people are safe. And I said, please tell me. And he's like, no, I can't. I said, okay, like, I respect that and thank you for doing that, you know. And he, you know, I've met all of them. Very nice people.

Um, seem very honest to me. So I'd love to see the video your daughter took. Okay. But I want to ask you, how do you get from that point to, I'm going to sue the state of California for the existence of Sasquatch? Well, at this point, it's like you and I, West, like, we get to a point where we're like, okay, we hear all these stories, right? And I, I want to get something straight.

I don't believe they're all bad. I don't believe they're all good. But something has to be done. And I'm thinking like there are so many sightings all over the world and so many horrible, like, sightings. And I'm just thinking as a mother, what can I do to change things? I'm not, I'm not in it for the fame. I'm not in it for the money. I'm a single mom.

You know, it helps me, but I'm a single mom. And I always want to teach my kids, like always do the right thing. Always fight for what you believe in. I don't just like say words. I do actions with my words. So what I decided to do is I called like the dispatch center, the sheriff's department, and I didn't know who to call. And I just, I called the dispatch and I said, hi, my name is Claudia Ackley. And I want to let you know that I have to report a siding that I had of a softwatch.

And the lady was really nice. She's like, she goes, I really don't get these calls very often, but I'm not sure if I should like give you the Forest Service or like the fishing game, but I'll find out for you and give me your number and they'll call you back today. I said, okay. So sure enough, within three minutes, like, I could. got a phone call and it was the Forest Service. Let's call her Debbie. So she goes, so you saw a saucequatch on the tree? Yeah, I said, yes, I did. And she said, and I said, I want to let you know. I have video of it. We have footprints of it and possible hair. I said, I want you to know that this is what happened to us. And I, I, I, this needs to be reported because people are vulnerable

out there. I believe in my heart. Okay, people know about bears, snakes and rattlesnakes and Mount lions and they know the dangers out there when you go out in the woods. But let's be truth to like to the public because we all pay our taxes. We all have the right to know exactly what's in the woods. So we have a choice to say, well, I'm not going to go out there because there's saucequatch and I don't want to deal with them. So I'm sorry, I'll take, I'll do another, I'll do bowling. But let them have a choice to go out there.

Let them let them know the truth. So what happened was she said, she said, I'm on my way to your house right now. Give me your address. I said, okay. So within like five minutes, she was at my house and she was very professional in her uniform. I shook her hand. I said, look, I'll take a drug test, a lie detector test, a psych evaluation, whatever you need for me. But this is what I saw.

And she said, okay, she said, I want to tell you that I'm not here alone. I'm here with my supervisor on the other end. And she said, I have to tell him what you're telling me. And he's going to tell you or try to explain to you what you saw. And I said, very interesting enough. And see, I'm sneaky. Like I had a recorder the whole time. the whole thing was recorded, but I can't use it because I can get in trouble for it.

So she said, so I showed her the video. She's like, and you could see her like expression of her face like, oh my gosh, you know. And she's like enlarge the picture. Let me see the face. Let me see the eyes like and she saw it right away. Like she wasn't like looking for it. Like it was so like faded. Now let me just tell you it's not the perfect picture, you know, but I commend my 15 year old daughter for videotaping it twice, you know.

So I showed her the video, showed her the pictures. And then she gets on her cell phone. she goes, hold on a minute. So she gets on her cell phone and then she says something and then the cell phone goes off. And then she reads it and she kind of took a sign. She goes, you saw a bear. Like you could tell she just, in my opinion, you could tell she just didn't want to say that, you know, but this is what whoever on the other end is telling her what to say.

And I said, no, no, no, this was not a bear. She goes, no, it was. I said, no, it wasn't. We were like, you know, back, I'm really like feisty. And I said, okay, there's a 20. 22 inch footprint. So with five toes. So is that a bare print?

No, it's not a bear print. So can you explain to me what that is? She goes, well, there's a lot of homeless people on that trail. And then I looked at her and I said, I've never seen one homeless person, not one tent out in that trail. And I've been all over those woods. And she goes, well, and I said two people, all 13 inch and a 22 inch. And they were walking barefoot in the woods. And she's like, well, you know, she didn't know what to say.

So then I said, this had an orangutan color. It wasn't black like on the video. It was very like orangutin red. And she goes, well, we did have a, we had an orangutin that got loose from the zoo like 30 miles from here. Maybe it was him. I said, no, it wasn't an orangutang. It was pretty big like an orangutang. But it wasn't an orangut.

So she goes, well, I'm really sorry. You know, I don't know what to tell you. She didn't know what to tell me. So she gives me a pamphlet on how to protect yourself against bears. And I go, what's this? She goes, it's a pamphlet on how to protect yourself against bears. And I said, well, I don't need. I need a saw squat.

watch a pamphlet, not like a bear pamphlet. And she goes, yeah, we don't have, we don't, yeah, no. Like, we don't, we don't do that. And then I said, let me ask you some questions now. She's like, okay. I said, so have, and has anybody ever been hurt on that trail? And she said, yes. I said, well, what happened?

She said, well, there was like a Boy Scout troop on that trail. And she said, it was so sad. She said, the little boy didn't listen to his troop master and he brought food at night in his tent. So a bear went in and heard him very, very, very bad in his tent. And I'm thinking in my head, was it a bear? Really was it a bear? And she said, that was a really tragic story.

That's what she said. And I want to look into that because I haven't looked into that. So then I said, okay, fair enough. Let me ask you a question. Has anybody ever reported a soft squash in that area or near that area? And right away she goes, no. I'm thinking like, so you researched it on the way to my house that nobody has ever like to have a siding there around there?

And she's like, no, nobody's ever had a siding out there. I said, okay. I said, so those three trees that are the three trees that are toppled down and we haven't had snow. We haven't had wind. We haven't had rain. Those just happened to fall on the trail. She goes, yeah, that's nature.

You know, I'm like, okay. So anyway, she gave me your business card and she left. And that day, I felt so ashamed that I was like, oh, no, like something has to be done. So I sat with my daughters and Ed and I said, look, like, I actually have to thank you, West, because this is how I started the lawsuit. I heard you with Todd. I listened to your show like every single night, like religiously. And I heard Todd. Now I've been friends with Todd like on Facebook, but I have never talked to him ever, like just, we were just friends on Facebook.

When I heard your interview, it was so compelling to me. Literally I had tears in my eyes and I felt this feeling of, okay, this is what I have to do. And it's going to be hard and people are going to laugh at me. I'm going to be the fat crazy lady out in the woods. But you know what? Like I got to do the right thing. I don't care. So I call Todd and I said, look, I know you have a lot of people that call you and stuff,

but I'm really interested in doing a lawsuit for the state of California. Now, I want everybody to know I'm not doing this for the money. I'm not doing it for fame. This is costing thousands of dollars and I look like a nut to the public. So basically, am I doing this for my own agenda? No. Am I doing this to help human beings? yes and the species yes so i sat with my daughters and i said look girls like i love you and you're my

number one everything in my life you are my number one this is what i plan to do but if it's going to get too hard for you at school with people making fun of you i won't and then my daughter looked at me and she said mom if you don't do something about it i would be so disappointed she goes please help people out there because that was like not funny like that was not fun please mom like i'll help you we'll support you and when i had their like support then i said you know what i'm going to do it. So Todd, standing, came and stayed awake with me here in California. He came all the way from Canada. And I want to tell you guys, he's a really good man. He's a very good man. He's very intelligent. He's very nice. He's very, he had a little bit of a stern front at first, very hard to get close to.

But once he dropped that shield of protection that I feel that he carries, he was just like telling me story after story. And we laughed, we cried. We bonded, you know. And so we started right away. I went to the courts and I got like paperwork at that point. I had no no attorney. So I got the papers and luckily I have a friend who is a paralegal and I called her and she's like one of those people you don't mess with at all. Like she's really, um, to the point and she's very direct. And I asked her like, don't laugh at me. She knows I'm into the soft squash, but I said, I need your help. Like, and I've been there for her when her husband passed away. Like we're friends, you know, so she said, you and Todd come over and I'll start helping you right away. So we spent three entire days at her

house. We slept two hours to write my, it's called a writ of mandate, which basically is me making a statement to the courts of why I'm suing them and why and what I want from it. But I have to use like penal code. It's really complicated. So we went on January 18th and they did the stamp thing. And just a loan to file is like $1,500. Just, just to file the paperwork. But like that, when she stamped it, I felt like, you know, I don't know if I'm going to win this case. to do the best I can to win it. But at least someone is like starting to do something. It's a, it's a step in the right direction, you know. So. Yeah, no, and I respect what you're doing. I'm envious of your optimism in the whole thing. It's too bad you can't sue the government that

actually does cover it up because I don't, the courts, I mean, the people you actually need to sue, you'll, you'll never see him in court. And the judges in the court, you know, they don't know. I mean, they have no clue. I know. And so are you just hoping that the best outcome is that they recognize the species there in California? Is that kind of what you're hoping for? I mean, like, I'm realistic. Like, I don't have a body.

You know, here's body. Here it is. You know, like, but you know what? It's like, now I have like 20, 30 people a day that message me. I heard your story. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

I have DNA evidence. I have PhDs, biologist, witnesses. Bob Gimlin. he's going to come and fly out and testify against, you know, to testify his testimony with the paddy footage. And I feel that I'm very, I'm not a religious person. I'm a very spiritual person. And I believe that things happened to us for a reason.

I believe I saw that creature, the girls and I saw that creature for a reason. And I'm not going to like just use it in vain. I need to help people. I can. And I told like the Forest Service lady, I said, you know, woman to woman, like mom to mom, I'm sure you're a mom. I said, do the right thing. Like, I know that you have to feed your family.

So do I. You know, I get that. But I said, you like telling people that they saw a bear, it's already hard enough to make that phone call. And then on top of it, you saying you saw a bear, you know, I'm like, that's not right. And I'm going to do something about it. And I am, you know, obviously. And so, you know, when I hear, West, your stories, Tracy and people with PTSD, that's so uncool. Like, those poor people.

And who do you call? People don't know who to call. They don't, there's no, like, sauce squash hotline at all, you know? So it's just time that maybe in 50 years, somebody will look at my case and go, okay, this is what she tried. Let's try doing this. You know what? Never give up.

Never give up. You fail when you quit and I'm not going to quit. So I don't know where this is going to take us, but it's time that we stop hiding it and stop being. I feel like I want to tell people, be confident. Who cares that people are laughing at you? Who cares? It's hard.

Like, I'm real. I cry. I get my feelings hurt. You know, I sometimes don't want to do this. Like, oh my gosh, like, why am I doing this? You know? But then I think in my head, I got to try to save lives and also protect the species, you know? And I, those things are not to be messed with at all.

You know, they're very smart. It's like scary. Today I was on a radio show in Los Angeles. And every reporter that I've been interviewed, they've been so good to me, so nice to me, even though they're like skeptics. But this channel, this news radio show, they were horrific with me. You know, and basically they're putting me down and laughing. And I'm like thinking, I said, and then I was rebuttling everything they were telling me.

Just rebuttal, rebuttal, rebuttal. And I was becoming nasty as well. And, you know, I said to them, like, he goes, well, we need a body. And I said, I get, we need a body. And I wish I could find a dead body somewhere. But it's also, I believe that they have a family clan. I believe that they protect their own, you know. And it's hard.

It's really hard. Yeah, no, I hear you. And I respect what you're doing, you know, and I wish you the best. If there's anything I can do to help you, please let me know. Thank you. And I'll have to have you back on to give us updates, see how the court case is going. But I really appreciate you coming on and sharing what happened to you and your daughters. And then having the courage to go before the court, I respect it.

So thank you very much. Thank you. And I truly am talking for like thousands of people, Wes. You have helped so many people. And thank you for doing what you're doing because I know it's not, it hasn't been easy. But I'm saying thank you from all of us to you. So without you, I would have never known how to call Todd. had an idea to sue the government.

So you have a lot to do with this as well. So thank you. I appreciate it, love. Thank you very much. Okay. Well, I'll talk to you and I'll keep your posted. Kind of, I didn't mean to cut you off. Very, very kind of you.

But I appreciate it, love. Let me know if I can do anything for you. Absolutely. Oh, thank you. And I'm there for you too. So we're all in this together. So anyway, I love you, Wes. And thank you guys for listening to my story.

And for those who support me. and I thank you so much. Your words mean everything in the world to me that give me strength. For those of you who don't agree with me, you have the right to your opinion, but I'm going to continue doing what you're doing no matter what you say to me. So thank you so much. Yeah, of course, of course. Okay, bye-bye.

Thanks, Claudia. And tonight I wanted to close that a little bit different. I know most of you know the shooting that happened in Florida, the absolutely terrible shooting that happened in Florida, senseless. And sometimes when you, when bad things happen like this, you see the worst of humanity. But a lot of times what ends up happening is you see the best of humanity too as well. And my heart, my priorities go out to the family members that have that lost kids during that. There are 17 people that died.

Absolutely senseless. But I wanted to remember Aaron Feist tonight. I hope I'm saying the last name right. The school put this out. They said it is with great sadness that our football family has learned about the death of Aaron Fice. He was our assistant football coach and security guard. He selflessly shielded students from the shooter when he was shot. He died a hero and he will forever be in our hearts and our memories.

And so, you know, truly my brother's keeper, you know, when you put your life on the line like he did. And, I mean, that's just the best of humanity. So tonight I wanted to remember Aaron. Rest in peace. I hope he's in paradise because he deserves it. Until next time, everyone. you did to red rose

that stem blue the cell clouds of white of day I like the dark and I think to myself

for a so pretty in the sky oh so one's facing of people passing by I see

friends shaking and singing how do you do They're really safe. I, I love you. I hear babies cry and I watch them go.

They'll learn much. Wake up where the clouds are far behind. Who melts like a lemon drops high above the chimney top that's where. Keeping across the country faster than the coronavirus and wagering week is your antidote. I'm Tom Barton, and I'm a veteran sports analyst and respected sports handicapper who will help build ESPN's brand. I've been recognized and awarded by Pro Football Weekly and Gaming Today magazine as the honest handicapper.

Let the other guys give you the same old boring sports talk with the same tired storylines. We'll give it to you straight here every Friday on Wagering Week. Don't gamble with other podcasts. Let SportsGarten Network's Wagering Week help your bottom line.