Sasquatch Chronicles - SC EP:446 Military veteran shares his encounters

Episode Date: June 24, 2018

I grew up in Arizona. At age 18 I joined the navy and began a 21 year career. I have wanted to share my experiences since my first experience in 1972. The only people I have shared these experiences with is my family, my mom and children. I have attached my experience: 1972 Willow Creek California Mid Afternoon My first encounter occurred while visiting a family friend in Willow Creek California in early June 1972. While visiting, my twin brother, and two family friends daughters went hiking on an old logging trail located behind the friend's house. We hiked about 1 hour up this road and were getting ready to turn around, when off to the road in a small gulley filled with ferns. We all stood on the road looking up the gulley after we had heard some grunting noises. Setting about 150 feet from us was a tall creature with long dark brown hair. The creature was standing among the ferns I think it was eating the tops of young ferns. It just stood watching us for about 1 minute, then it grunted. The girls we were with said that we needed to go so we left, I remember running all the way back to the house. When we told the girl's parents the father was concerned and told us not to go back up the road. On our way to my aunt's house in Gresham Oregon, I remember my mom telling me that her friend's husband called a couple of men and they went up the road. She also said that he turned on the electric fence around their black berry/boson berry patch. He told my mom and her friend that he did that to keep out the bears. The creature as I remember was about 7 feet tall with long dark brown hair. I could not tell if it was male or female. It seemed more interested in the ferns than us. At no time do I remember feeling threatened. However, my mom said that my twin brother and I had nightmares and began to walk in our sleep. Mom always felt that what happened or whatever we saw in Willow Creek caused these problems. November 1978 Near Sedona Arizona Around 10:00pm This encounter was very short and happened on Highway 89A between Sedona and Cottonwood Arizona near a bridge crossing a place called Dry Creek. While driving home from work around 10:00PM we were following a car. My mom was driving and she asked me why there was some guy running down the road and should we stop. Then this individual took two steps and crossed the road right in front of us. My mom slammed on the brakes to keep from hitting this individual and she said to me did you see the size of that guy and boy he could really jump. The most interesting thing she said was "I think that was a big foot". I just looked at her and she said, oh yeah I remember my grandfather talking about them being around here. Her grandfather was a rancher in the area of the Mogollon Rim. This was very interesting because this was the first time she ever mentioned it. I have talked with my family in the area and they told me that there are places near Flagstaff Arizona at a place called Rogers Lake that they do not like going there, because weird thing happened there and that the Great Grand Pa said not to go there. The individual we saw that night as I remember was between 6 and 7 feet tall. Long dark hair and very muscular. He crossed the road and disappeared down the side of the gulley. We did not stop and continued home. We never talked about that night much but mom always believed that Bigfoot always existed. September 1998 In the Otay Mesa area of San Diego County. 8:00PM While camping with my son and three of his friends about 10 miles off I-8 the sun had gone down. We had just finished eating dinner and the boys wanted to play capture the hide and seek around the camp site. I told them they could, they played around until about 10:00PM until I told them to go to bed. Around 11:00PM when the boys had gone to sleep, I heard some movement around the camp area and so I got up to see what was going on. Near the camp I was instructed to come into the trees. As I walked into the area of the voice I came upon tow Border Patrol Agents. They told me that all of their motion sensors in the area had been set off. They also told me that they were tracking a couple of really big individuals and that we need to pack up our camp and move on. So that is what we did. These men seemed to me very nervous and they were packing heavy. I still do not understand what the circumstances were. I never thought of a Sasquatch in this area. I did listen to a show that described what the some of the Border Patrol Agent had described. I do not know if there was a Sasquatch in the area but I feel like those men that night may have saved me a bunch of problems. November 1998 Ellsworth Canyon, near Gabbs Nevada 1:00PM I went cutting wood with my daughter Jessica, son Michael and friend Shawn. Shawn was trying to earn money to take my oldest daughter to Prom. We were cutting fire wood to sell. About 12:00 PM my daughter Jessica came to where I was cutting wood and asked me what I wanted. I told her that I did not call her, she told me that I had called her twice. I assured her that I had not. She took an arm load of wood back to the truck. A few minutes later Shawn came up the hill and told me that he had heard some coyotes howling down the hill from where we were. He said they had just started up. I told him to keep an eye out and let me know if they sounded closer. He grabbed some wood and went back to the truck. A few minutes after about 1:00 PM, Jessica and Shawn came back after hauling wood down for Michael to stack it in the truck. They wanted me to come down and eat some lunch and to see if we had enough wood. So I went back down and ate lunch. After a few minutes I went back to cutting would and all three kids came up to where I was. Jessica asked me if why I was giggling and what was so funny. I just kind of looking at them. Jessica told me she and Shawn heard some little kids giggling and asked if I heard them. I said no. Then my son came up the hill with a puzzled look on his face. He told me he went down the hill to go to the restroom, when he came back to the truck he said all of the wood was thrown out of the truck. He wanted to know if I wanted him to restack it. I told him to go down with Jessica and Shawn and restack the wood. Within a few minutes Jessica was back telling me that all of the food was gone out of the ice chest. She also said they heard that giggling again I ask them if the wood was restacked and she said the truck was full. Michael my son yelled up the hill and said everything was packed up so Jessica and I went down the hill to the truck. Michael and Shawn were standing on the driver side of the truck and Jessica was in the cab. Shawn walked to the back where I was standing and told me that there were two guys further down the hill watching us. We all got in the truck and started driving down the hill. Shawn kept looking out of the driver's window and he told me that those guys were following us. When we got back to the road Michael and Shawn both said they saw the tall guys run back up the hill. The kids were quiet all the way home about 1 hour. In the last few months I have talked with all three kids by themselves, they all told me the same story and they told me they saw and heard a couple or more Sasquatch in and around the where we were cutting wood. Jessica told me that she sometimes has dreams about that day. Shawn has moved to Alaska and he will only talk about it with Jessica and Michael. Michael told me that he remembers the pair of Sasquatch watching us and that he thought they threw the fire wood out of the back of the truck. October 2001 Ellsworth Canyon, near Gabbs Nevada 9:00 AM My son Michael and I were cutting wood. I was setting on the tail gate of our truck watching my son cut up a tree. I noticed some movement behind him, a small group of Cow Elk came up and stood within a few feet behind him. They were acting really nervous, I thought it was really strange that the Elk were so close. I got Michaels attention and he was nearly face to face with the Elk. We heard what sounded like a large bear roaring coming from the scrub oak. The elk took off and ran pass my truck. Michael came up to the truck and said did you hear that. I told him I heard that roaring sound. So we did like the elk and took off. We talked about what happened all the way home. He asked me if I told mom and I told him that I would but, his mom is a skeptic. I believe that whatever Sasquatch is, I know that they exist. I have spent many years believing."

Black thing go from left to right, and I thought, I'm going to die out here. No one's ever going to know. I couldn't believe what my eyeballs were showing me. I'll never forget how evil the eyes were. It was a horrible. I mean, I've never seen nothing that evil. It ran towards me at a rate that I can't even explain, turned and stared at me, and this look of, I just want to kill you. I want to say it was human, but it wasn't. He was yelling at me to grab a gun, grab a gun. I was like, for what? He said, just grab a gun.

And there's footprints all the way to the door of my house. It had went inside my garage all the way to the door. 911, what are you reporting? Get somebody out here. What's going on now, sir? That son of a bitch is about six foot nine, I don't know. Do you see him now, sir? Yes, I'm looking right at him.

You're listening to Sasquatch Chronicles. Check us out online at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. If you've had an encounter, email me. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. This brought this picture all by ourselves, and I made this one. Wes, if we can get a shout out for Raffo's birthday, he did a Bigfoot-themed birthday party. And if we get a shout out in your next podcast, it would be awesome. So thanks so much.

We remember us and we love listening. Happy birthday, bud. I think I caught the name, Raphael. Happy birthday, bud. I hope you had a great time. And Derek is the dad that sent it into me. Derek, thank you so much. Thank you guys for listening.

I really appreciate it. I hope you had a great birthday. How cool is that to have a dad to let you do a Bigfoot themed birthday party? I bet it was a blast. Thank you for sending that to me, guys. Tonight I got a great show plan for you. going to be talking to Jeff. And Jeff is a career military veteran, spent his whole life in the military.

He actually had a couple of encounters in the early 70s and then had a recent encounter. I want to say it was in the 2000s. It was about 18 years ago. I'll have to ask him about that. But he also ran into not only Sasquatch, but he ran into a very odd, strange creature. Him and his wife were coming back one day. And they had actually seen the same run across the road. and it's nothing like I've ever heard before.

So we'll get into some of that tonight. I'll also be welcoming Dustin Duncan to the show. He has a show called Crypto PTSD. And he recently asked if I would come on with him and let him interview me. And I don't know how entertaining it's going to be. But I told him I would. And then I welcomed him here to talk about his show. And I know Dustin's kind of starting out.

He's got about 50 shows under his belt. And we're going to be talking about some of the show. of the stranger encounters he's come across. And some of the ones that really stuck out to him should be a great, fascinating show tonight. I really appreciate you guys listening. If you've had an encounter, then he'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. And if you get a chance, check out Sasquatch Chronicles.com, you can get additional shows.

I know on Friday night, the eyewitness I had on, he's a working professional, wildlife professional. he actually ran into three of these creatures. Probably one of the more fascinating accounts I've ever heard. And even one of them had dropped down and ran like a spider. Very fascinating stuff. So if you get a chance, please check out Sasquatch Chronicles.com. Let's jump into it tonight. I want to welcome Jeff to the show.

Jeff, thanks for coming on. You're welcome. Yeah, I appreciate you coming on. Like I said, I'm impressed with your military background, and then the two encounters you had back in the 70s. and there's a lot of time in between encounters. Kind of take us from the very beginning, Jeff, if you would. Kind of start with that first encounter.

Tell us what you were doing and walk us into what happened. First of all, I was born and raised in Arizona, in a near a little town called Sedona. I think everybody knows where that's at. I grew up just underneath the Mugion Rim, and we'll talk about that a little later, I think, maybe. and just grew up knowing about for my grandpa and my dad and just family members that there were things out there that we just didn't mess with and out in the forest and just kind of stayed away from them. But my first real encounter with these guys happened up in Willow Creek, California in 1972 when we were visiting friends up there.

We were there for a week and my mom and my mom's high school friends sent me and my twin brother and their two daughters. They just said, get out of house and go for a walk. So we did. We walked up an old, I wanted to call it a mining road. That's what we call it in Arizona, but they call it a lumber road. And up that road about a mile, a mile and a half from that house is where we had our first encounter. It wasn't really a bad encounter. It was just enough to scare two 13-year-olds and a 14- and 15-year-old who run all the way home.

Well, if you would, walk us into what happened? What did you guys see? Well, we walked up this road, and it was kind of in the afternoon, and it was a little cool for Northern California just coming from Arizona, and they told us to go up there and not go too far and stay on the road and come back, you know, in an hour or so, And we walked up there and one of the girls we were with, her name was Zenith. And the other girl's name was Jackie. And they were like, you know, we had this thing around here called Bigfoot.

And I think they were just trying to scare us. And so we kept walking up there. And we got up, like I said, about miles, mile and a half from their house. And up this little canyon, like, draw thing was a whole bunch of ferns up there in those big, I want to say. their fur trees that's up in that area. It sat right up in the middle of them was, sure enough, we thought it was a bear. And then it stood up, and there was no way that was a bear. And the girls, they just kind of froze.

And Jackie, the oldest son looked at her sister's, Zinip, and said, Dad said they weren't down this far yet. So they took off and ran down the trail and left me and my twin brother standing there looking at this thing. And it was kind of an interest experience, but it was really, really weird because it kind of looked at us for a second and then went on to eating whatever it was eating right there in those those ferns that were growing up there in that canyon you know we went home yeah we ran back down the road there and caught up with him and went home and zenith ran in and told her mom and and our mom got on the phone and called dad he was working over at a plywood mill there in

willa creek and he came home and later that afternoon him and about five guys went up there and up that road and came back down and they told us that we weren't allowed to go back up there anymore and then he went over and he told his friend that lived right there. They had big boisenberry patched there. And he said, well the boisenberry

are getting ripe. He said, I think it's time to turn the electric fences on. And so they turned on these big old and I never, I grew up on a dairy kind of and I've never seen an electric fence that was 10 feet tall ever. And they turned them on and he said, that'll keep them out of there.

From then at that point on, my mom was like, we were supposed to stay awake. My mom said, we're out of here. We're taking off. We're going to go on up to my aunt's house in Portland. But, yeah, it was pretty, that was the first time, I think, that I had ever seen something like that. Now, my second-oldest brother, it's six, seven, and bright red-headed and big beard and everything. And this thing was twice as size seemed to me at that time. Yeah, it's odd to hear everyone's.

kind of reaction to it, you know, even the kids' reaction, almost like the old man had seen it millions of times before. And even his kids' reaction, you know, coming back and saying, hey, dad told us it wasn't down this far, and then they take off. Very strange. I wanted to ask you about the description. Can you kind of describe what you saw? You said it was eating? Yeah, it looked like it was eating the ferns. That's what was really weird, because my mom had always told us that they were poisonous and not to get in them. And because I guess they get dust on the bottom of their leaves and they make you itch and stuff.

She said that they were poisonous and we shouldn't mess around with them. But this guy was standing right there in the middle of them, just popping the tops off of them and eating them. And what did we see? When I first saw it, I thought it was the biggest gorilla I have ever seen in my life. Probably well over seven feet. I would say close to probably close to the, about. 800 pounds.

And it did not have any interest in this at all. Just looked at us and just kept on doing what he was doing. Yeah, strange. Did it look more like a gorilla or did it look more like a person? Was there anything that you remember? You know, it looked like a person, a really big bodybuilder type guy, real tall. His face was, I mean, when he looked right at us, I think that's what froze all of us in our track is, and it was a guy.

and he looked right at us and his eyes just kind of sucked us in, you know. They were like a really dark, almost black eyes, and his hair was dark, dark, dark, brown. So, and just real muscular. His eyes is what really got us. He kind of just sucked us in. And we all just kind of froze and looked, and then the girls took off. Did you ever go back and talk to those girls, or did you ever, you know, I realize probably not your kids.

It's maybe a dumb question. But did you ever go back and ask? I wrote to Zina up a lot. We were really good friends. Her mom and my mom were really good friends. I wrote to her a lot. And she said, about 76, she was two years older, two years older than I was, I think. In about 76, she graduated from high school and she moved down to Reading.

And she says she's never been back up into Willow Creek area. And I asked her about Bigfoot up there. She said, oh, sure, when we were growing up, it was like a daily occurrence up there in the summertime. Somebody would come in and say, they had a, I can't remember what the name, PD. They called him PD or something like that. We saw PD up there on the old lumber road. So the kids up there, they knew places where they could go. There's a river that runs right through there.

I can't remember the name of it now. But she said there were places on there that were they weren't allowed to go swimming at and because that things could happen there. What about your parents? Did you ever talk to your folks about it? Oh, my mom, firm believer in Bedfoot. My mom said that when we were in Willow Creek, my twin brother and I, in the middle of the night, we started walking in our sleep up there,

and she couldn't figure it out because we'd never done it before. And we were out playing on a teeter-totter thing in the yard, and she said she looked out the window, and back in those Boisenberry bushes, she saw her friend's husband standing back in there watching us. And she said, so she went out there and got us. And when she went out there, she said it was like somebody was grunting at it. You know, so she brought us in.

And the next morning she told her friend Ruby that we were going to go on up to my aunt's house in Portland. That's interesting. And all that happened in the same place. Same place. Yeah. Within a mile of where we saw him standing up there eating those bushes. Well, if you would, tell us about the incident in 78. In 78, I had just turned 18 and I was working with my mom at a restaurant and we were on our way home about 10 o'clock at night.

And in Vicodona, Arizona, just underneath the Muvion Rim. And we're going down the road and my mom's driving and I'm talking. And she goes, what is that? And I said, what's fun? She goes, what's running down the side of the road right there? And I said, I don't know, Mom. I don't know what that is. And she's like, that looks like a big old guy running.

and down the road. I wonder if he's in trouble or there were two cars in front of us. There was a Voteswagon Beetle right in front of us and then there was a deputy sheriff's car in front of him and the deputy sheriff pulled over and the Votes Wagon swirbed

and then this guy I'll call him a guy, this big old dude ran across the road. There's two steps was across the road and down the other side and we pulled up there and stopped and the deputy had jumped out of his car and was shining a flashlight down in there to see if there was a wreck or something down in there.

And he said, did you guys see that guy running down the road? And my mom goes, yeah, that's the biggest man I've ever seen. And he said, that's really kind of strange because one ran across the road in front of me. And then the one that ran across the road in front of us ran between my mom's car and the boat's wagon. So, and we were in a little tiny dodged hold, you know, not a very big car. If we would have hit that guy, we probably would have been dead. And my mom's like, she was all the way home.

Did you see him? That was the biggest man of there saying. I said, Mom, I don't think that was a man. She's like, well, and I said, I think that was, that thing looked like the guys that we saw, the guy that we saw up there in Willow Creek. She goes, oh, Willow Creek's too far. We don't have Bigfoot's down here in Arizona. And I said, remember what your dad used to tell you?

Don't go out there in them woods by yourself. And she goes, yeah, but I didn't take, I thought he was talking about Mount lions or Bears or something. I mean, he said, not big foot. So, but yeah, right there running down the side of the road. And what was really strange is he went across that highway, you know, how wide a two-way lane road is. Right. He stepped right from the edge, right in the middle and right off the other side. You know, I'm telling my mom, don't hit him.

Don't hit him. Yeah, that's fascinating. It makes me wonder, did the sheriff, did anyone say anything? You know, the sheriff was like, he said, if I go in and talk to somebody about this, they're going to just say to me the deputy, he was a friend of the family, you know, a small community there. He was like, if I go back and I tell the sheriff that I actually saw something like that, he said, he'll just tell me to write it down as something else. He said, so I'm not even going to report it.

But you know, before he was older than my mom and before he passed away, we were talking about it at a family reunion once he was there. And he said to me and my mom, do you remember that big old thing that was running down the road over there by dry creek. And my mom's like, absolutely. And it's funny to have law enforcement say that back, that far back. I can definitely see the law enforcement. I'm waiting for a Geico to commercial to come out where, you know, someone hits a Sasquatch and Geico shows up and says, well, we'll call it a bear. You know what I mean? Like, that's how it is with law enforcement. It's always a bear's fault, always. Right. Well, if that guy, you know, I believe that that,

that guy that was running down the road. And I'm going to call him that guy because, well, I couldn't tell if it was a guy or a girl, but just for reference, he probably could have stepped over the top of our car and never touched it. And it really kind of startled my mom because he was that tall. I'm not even trying to guess. All I know is his knees were almost at the top of our windows in our little Dodge Colt. And he just went over the side.

But what was really interesting is the deputy said that one had run across the the road right in front of him. That is interesting, because you hadn't seen that. You had just seen this one individual, correct? Yeah, we just saw the one individual go across the road. And the deputy, well, he swore so bad, he was sideways in the road and stopped the traffic right there. And he was like that.

Did you see that run across the road? And my mom said, yeah, I ran across the road in front of us. And he goes, no, the one that ran across the road in front of me. That's amazing, special multiple witnesses. Now, nothing really happened for 20 years. right, then nothing else happened until... Well, I was in the Navy and I was overseas doing Navy stuff, you know, going here and there. And then when I moved up here to Nevada, I had heard some reports that I used to watch the BFRO all the time, but I don't much watch them anymore.

But I'd heard some reports about over Yosemite and up in the mountains there behind Lake Tahoe and stuff. And I got interested in that and started following the Bigfoot thing again. And then that's when we started over in the mountains east of Fallon between Reno and Elko. That's where my next three encounters happened, we're over there. And one of those scared me pretty bad. That one that, like I was in the Navy, I'd worked in the Navy Seals, and I've been scared before, but nothing like I was scared up there. I really thought my life and my kids' lives were going to be taken right there.

my, my oldest daughter and her boyfriend wanted to go to the prom and they didn't have any money. And I told them, I'll tell you what, I'll pay you if you guys will go cut a load of firewood. And my oldest daughter said, well, I have to work, but my boyfriend will go with you. And then my second oldest daughter and my son said, yeah, dad, we'll go with you. That'll be, that'll be fun. So I said, all right. So we all jumped in the truck and we drove up there about 100 miles east of Fallon. and we're up there working.

And my daughter comes up the hill to me and she says, hey, dad, did you want something? And I, because I'd been yelling down the hill, Jessica, get up here and get this or come bring me this or whatever. And she'd come up there. She'd, did you want something? I said, no. I didn't call you.

And she said, well, it's really weird, dad. Down there by the truck, it sounds like a whole bunch of little kids are down there laughing and giggling and playing. And I said, ah, it's your imagination. There's no, really, dad. And I said, all right, whatever. Here, take a load of all right. firewood back down to the truck and sent Sean up there.

And then Sean come walking from the other direction. And he said to me, Mr. Bice, uh, my daughter's boyfriend, Mr. Bice, uh, did you need something? And I said, no. I said, I need you guys to get this firewood out of here. And he goes, that's really weird because I heard some little kids giggling over there and laughing.

So I walked over there to see what they were doing. There was nobody there. And I said to him, I said, okay, uh, whatever, take this wood down there. And so they started loading wood. and my son was down at the truck, stacking the wood up in the truck and the trailer. And he come walking up the hill and he goes, Dad, there's somebody down there making noise down the hillside from the truck. So I stopped and I walked down there and I look down there and I yell down there.

I said, hey, you know what? You need to quit messing around with us up here. We're just trying to load this firewood out of here and get out of here. Nothing. We didn't hear anything for about 10, 15 minutes. Then my daughter comes up and she says, hey, dad, come down here and need a sandwich. which mom told me to make sure that you ate and drank as you won't. And I said, all right.

So I went down there and all the firewood that we had cut was all up in the truck. And we were sitting there eating. And then my son ran down the side of the hill to the spring down there. He wanted to look at something. And my daughter and my friend, my oldest daughter's boyfriend, came back and were talking to me and we could hear this giggling. And then my son came up the hill and he was mad. He come up and said, dad, who's through all the firewood?

wood out of the truck. I said, what do you mean? He goes, all the firewood's out of the truck. I can't find the cooler anywhere. Everything's gone. And I said, okay, somebody's messing around with this. So I said, Sean, you go around this way and I'll go around this way and we'll see if we can catch these guys. Well, we got around. We started looking around and all of a sudden here comes my son and he comes running up and he throws the chainsaw in the back of the truck and throws all of our tools and stuff we had there in the back of the truck. And he's go, dad, right now. We've got to get out of here. And I said, what's wrong? to you boy and he said,

Sasquatch is right down there. And I said, right down where and he was pointing. And I said, I don't see anything. He said, no, really, Dad. I went down there to go to the bathroom. And when I got down there in these bushes, I turned out and look, he was standing right there staring at me. I said, what did you do, son?

And he goes, I ran back up here. And I said, okay. So Sean and I, we walked down the hill there. And we got down the hill down there. And sure enough, right there where my son said he was, there were these big, oh, huge footprints. And he's like, Sean, my friend said, we're out of here. We're not messing with this.

So we got back up to the truck and I had my 45 pistol with me and I laid it up on the dash and we're driving down the road. And Sean looked at me and said, Mr. Bice, what are you going to do with that pistol? If that Soshua comes up here, I said, I'm going to throw it at him because as big as he is that Michael said, that's not going to do anything to him. And we're sitting there in the truck. and all of a sudden a log comes flying up there and hits right on the hood of the truck, boom. And I said to him, okay, it's time to go. So we're driving and Sean's looking, leaning forward and looking past me, and there were two Sasquatches running down the canyon in front of us.

It looked like they were trying to get ahead of us to where we had to drive through this little narrow area at the bottom of the hill. And I said to Sean, I said, this might be bad. And he said to me, he says, when we get down there where we know we would have to go, you need to just go for it. But what was really weird about that whole thing was is I felt like they were surrounding us because there was laughing from down by the truck, there was laughing from on the other side of me up in the timber.

And it seemed like whoever, whatever, the soft squatches, whatever, they were moving around us trying to figure out where we were the weakest at. And that's when I started getting scared. And Sean looked at me and said, Mr. Weiss, are you scared? And I said, hell yeah, I'm scared. I said, I've never had a confrontation with one of these guys, and I don't plan on having one now. And he goes, well, we got to get out of here.

And when we got to that narrow place and we drove through, we could see them right there. There were two of them, two big old black guys hanging up there on the side of the hill. And one of them had a log in his hand. And when we drove through there, they kind of just watched just drive through and they turned on and walked off. And we drove down the road. And that was the end of it. But I'll tell you, I was scared. I really got scared down in there.

I thought for sure that somebody was going to come up and whack me with that with a stick. Yeah, that's fascinating. What did they look like when they were they running down on two legs or were they on fours coming down? When they were coming down the hill, they were on two legs. When they were going down the little, there was a sandy bottom ditch type thing. When they were going down through that, one of them was on what was running like on fours, like a chimpanzee would run. And the other one was standing up running right behind him.

And they were big. They were around, I would say, between six, nine, seven, seven and a half feet. And they were just, they were going down. The guy with the stick was walking up right. The other guy was, it was really weird because he looked like a chimpanzee running. The only thing I could think was this is going to be bad. Yeah, I can imagine. It's strange.

You know, I've heard that too when they're running on all four. Sometimes it'll appear to be very chimpanzee-like. And I've heard hunters say that when they're running on all fours. Or like it reminded me of a chimpant, like a chimp running. But the other thing that's fascinating is the giggling, the kids. I've heard that so many times. You know, the first time I ever heard that was a guy in Oregon, and he was up cutting wood. And when he was up there cutting wood with a bunch of his, I think it was his son and their friend or someone else.

And he started hearing giggling. And he was like, well, this is like five o'clock in the morning. We're up on the side of Mount Hood, middle of nowhere. Right. And he goes, it sounded like kids having a. You know, laughing at you, giggling, having a good time. And I've heard that from other hunters, too. That's what my daughter, I hunt a lot.

And it used to be, I used to like to go out by myself. But, you know, I won't go out in these, because, you know, down here in Nevada, when we hunt, we hunt long range, because you may not have trees for miles around you, right, in the middle of the desert. And, but I won't go out there. My son and I, we were up cutting wood in the same area, and got all the wood cut. and he said, dad, there are a lot of flies around here. And I was like, yeah, you know, there's something dead around here.

We couldn't smell anything or anything. He goes, well, let's just walk around and look and see what we can find. You know, maybe there's an old dead cow or something. And so we walked around there and leaning up against this tree was a man sitting there. And we had heard earlier in the year that he went missing up in the mountains up by Gabs, Nevada. we just happened to come up on this guy that had been sent in there for probably five or six months. They said he was deer hunting. We never saw any kind of firearms.

And I just told my son, I said, okay, boy, you need to take the truck and drive down to Gabs. It's about 12 miles down there and get a hold of the sheriff's department for this county and bring them back up here. I said, I'll stay up here right here in this area. And so he said, okay, but he left in about 20 minutes later. he was back and he had these two forest service guys with them. We went over and one was a forest ranger and the other one was just like a forest worker guy, you know, the guys who do clear cutting and stuff. Yeah.

But the other guy had a badge. He was definitely a ranger and a U.S. forest ranger. And he came up and he goes, so what do you got? And I said, there's a body right over here by this tree leaning up against this tree. And he goes, I don't believe you. And I said, well, come on. And we walked over there and he stood there and he looked for a minute and he goes, well, we had a hunter reported missing up in here last fall.

I said, this guy hasn't been here that long. And he goes, well, how would you know? And I said, well, I told him, you know, I worked with the seals. I was a medic with them. And I'd seen bodies decomposed like that. And I said, besides that, there's no gun here. There's nothing here. And he said, well, you know, you really don't need to worry about this.

We'll take care of it from here. You guys just need to get on out of here. You know, they never called us. They never wanted to stay. They never wanted anything. They just wanted us out of there. But what was interesting about that one was about a year before that, my wife and I were up in the same area cutting wood.

And my wife came walking up and she said, check that out. And I said, what? And she pointed and they turned on and looked and there was a black helicopter hovering. And those guys were sitting there watching us. And two guys got out of it and walked up there and told us we needed to leave because there was a situation. And then four more guys got out. They were all heavily armed, all dressed up, and they went and followed us down the hill, and then they walked off into the woods there.

But they told us that we had to leave right then and no questions asked because they had a situation in that same area up there where we had run into the giggling big puts and had actually seen them up there and never heard anything about it again. I went to my work. I got online and said, you know, I want to know about this. Nothing. Nobody wants to talk about it. Well, did you guys ever go back to that area?

I know there was an incident with your son, and I want to ask you, why do you keep going back there? Just curiosity? Well, I had wood permits for that area, and wood permits are kind of hard to get in Nevada. And so I had bought wood permits, not even thinking of the area. Just went in and the lady at the forest or the National Park forest thing, whatever. said, do you want the same ones you had last year? I said, yeah, sure, that's fine. So I went in and bought him and didn't even think about it. And then my son were driving up there. My son says, Hey, Dad, do you think we're going to go back up there where we ran into the Bigfoot? And I said,

oh, man, we are backed up here in Ellsworth Canyon. And he said, yeah. And I said, now we'll just go a little further down by where the old mining camp is. And he goes, okay, so we went down there. That's where we ran it. We never saw the Bigfoot. But my son and I, and I just, I, I, I, remembered that a friend of ours was cutting wood up there and his truck was just over this little hill from us and we're cutting wood there in that herd of cow herd of cow elk i would think about 20 of them come up there and they were within 50 feet of my son and he's standing there with the chainsaw you know that's not typically what an elk will do they were standing there by him and i walked down there and they didn't even move they just kept looking back behind them and uh i went

down and i and i kicked the log he was working on and he looked at me and i gave him the signal to turn the saw off and he turned it off and I said check that out and he looked up and he goes where did they come from and I said they came from right over there and he goes oh that was really weird because when I walked down I thought I heard something over there he said but I didn't pay any attention to it and I said okay and so I walked back up to the truck with some arm load of wood and and he started cutting again and those elk followed me all the way around him and they were probably 50 feet 60 feet from my truck standing there looking back past our truck from which the direction it came and then this is when we heard the noise that came from those bushes over there.

It sounded like a grizzly bear when it grunts or it tosses when it's getting ready to charge. You know, I'd had that wha-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-hreel-beat thing. And my son, he heard it over the chainsaw. And he stopped me. Did you hear that, Dad? And I said, yeah. And then we heard my friend on the other side of this little hill. He stopped his chainsaw.

And so we loaded everything up. We were just about finished and we drove over where he was at. And my friend said, were you yelling at us? And I said, no. And he said, there was somebody out here yelling at us to knock it off, quit, coughing, everything. And I said, they weren't telling you knocked it off. He goes, no, they probably weren't telling us knock it off, but they were yelling at us.

And I said, did you see that hurt elk? And he said, yeah, they come running down through here like something was chasing them. I said, yeah, I told him, I said, you know what? We probably need to go and we probably need to go this way instead of driving. backed up in there where those elf ran into to get out of here. So we all packed up and went home. And my son goes, Dad, do you think those bigfoot were up there hunting those elk? I said, I have no idea, son, but it's a possibility. There's two, there's a really, one question I really, really want to ask you. But before I get into that, because I think this one might relate to it,

but what do you think Sasquatch is? What's your honest opinion? I think that Sasquatch is a type of animal, kind of human, kind of not kind of really smart like we are or even smarter that's out there surviving on what they were given to survive with and they don't want to be messed with. And when you mess with them, you're messing with the wrong thing. I mean, I've been listening to your show less now for about two years and three years maybe. and I've heard some guys talking about how they find things out in the woods. You know, I haven't really seen any of those kind of things out there, but I grew up hearing really weird things up in the forest in northern Arizona and down here in the woods in Nevada.

And we saw that one up at Willow Creek. I think that anything that's smart enough to hide itself or to move as quick as they do and to be, they're almost like a family unit, you know. they're well if they're human then is that the next step or is that the step that we came from so my thought is that they're just a i don't i don't believe in much about everybody's saying or i've heard people say they're aliens or whatever i don't believe much in that but i believe you know they could have walked across that bearing straight and got over here and the pickings were a lot

better. You know, I've done a lot of anthropology studies, and I've looked at what really did kill the mastodons and all of those big animals that were here before, you know. You have a big man, you've got a big animal. So, yeah, it is. It's fascinating. I mean, my, my, not let me, Koff, my guest had on Friday night, Casey, he was actually out there in Kentucky and, or West Virginia, forgive me, West Virginia, and you're talking about the family units, and he had just shot a deer. And so he drops a deer, and he's in a perfect position. Well, one had walked up this hill and made eye contact with him, and another one had obviously heard the shot and came rushing towards him. And he thought for sure the thing was going to mow him down.

But he said they started chattering back and forth with their teeth. He said it was like two hammers hit each other, and they're chattering back and forth, And if you listen to it, it almost kind of sounds like the one was like, hey, relax, I got this, don't charge him. And he had a feeling like they knew he was armed. So there is this weird family, you know, they do work like family. I've said they often move around like the military. But the other question I want to ask you is, you know, you hear about them running around on military bases. I've had guys on that have actually seen these things on the military base. Do you think the government's covering it up? I know you're a career veteran. Do you think, and why do you think that they would? Well, you know, my career filled in the Navy, other than being a Navy Phil, was intelligence and hospital corpsmen

because each team had to have that. And I worked in intelligence, and you read, and I've read things, especially up around Fort Lewis, and they're back there in Fort, in Fort Sill, Oklahoma, you know, and places that are out in the middle of nowhere, everybody reports these big people, big people out there. You know, you have to stop. You can't do this.

You can't do that. And then when you ask somebody in charge about it, they're like, never happened. Yeah, there's a, I believe that there's a government cover up. I was going to tell you about this one that my wife and I experienced just real fast. Coming back from, we were coming back from Yosemite. and we were driving down the road here. This big old thing came down the side of the hill, you know, where they carved through the mountains to build a road,

from sliding down this thing, stood up on two feet, took two steps, went down to all fours and ran across the road and stopped right at the edge and stood back up and looked at us and then ran down the hill. And the only thing, and my wife still talks about it, she said, that was the biggest mountain lion I have ever seen in my life. and I said to her, sweetheart, mountain lions don't stand up on their back legs like that. She goes, oh, it must have been doing something.

I said, yeah, it was standing on its back legs. She goes, you know, that looked a lot like an African lion and a mountain lion mixed. And I said, I don't know about that. I said, I don't think that was a mountain lion. I said, I don't know what that was, but that thing. And she says to me, well, I told you to stop and take a look. And I said, are you crazy? And then I came back here and we stopped in the little.

town right there and and I asked the sheriff and I said to him and I said you know we saw the weirdest thing up there on the road going into Mono Lake and he goes yeah just don't mess with that he says they know it's out there they just leave it alone and I said well what is it and he goes I can't remember so yeah there is there's a cover of up there you know people know they're out there they're common people like us we know they're out there but when you tell somebody it's like never happened don't mess with it it never happen. You know, sometimes that just makes, well, it just pisses me off less. Because I've seen them. I've been out there when they've been circling around me and my kids, and I know they're out there, then they come and tell us that we have to leave because we have a situation here in the

middle of the desert. So, yeah, there's just cover up. I want to ask you, go back to what you guys saw, was that, do you think that was a Sasquatch or do you think that was something else? That's kind of a weird statement to make a cross between a lion and a... It looked, well, you know, it had a tail, and it was walking on its hind leg, and then it was down on its all fours when it crossed the road. Then it got back up on its hind legs and went down through the sage rush, and it was on its hind legs. Now, I squatch, no tail. This thing had a tail, and it was huge.

I mean, five, six hundred pounds. And it looked just like a female African lion, except it was walking on two legs. and my wife kept saying, it must have been doing something. I said, yeah, it was walking. You know, we watched it for about 10 or 15 seconds until it went off into the trees where we couldn't see it anymore.

And she goes, that's the weirdest thing I've ever seen. I've never seen the lion walk on its lion's feet. And I said, I kept telling her, honey, I don't think that's a lion. I think we need to move on down the road here. Yeah, no kidding. So she's like, she's like, well, what kind of animal would do that? And, you know, I never gave it any thought.

And then you guys have been talking a lot about dog man and stuff. Is there something else out there that doesn't look like a dog that's up on its fine feet walking around? I saw one. Yeah, wouldn't surprise me. My wife saw one. Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me one bit.

And it's, you know, I don't know what that was. I don't know that I've ever heard that before, but it, then not much shocks me anymore, to be honest with you, Jeff, from doing this show. Not a whole lot shocks me anymore. I mean, I've heard some weird, weird. I think the weirdest one I've ever had was a guy who, and I actually believe this guy 100%. He was a mountain biking across the nation.

And they were coming down a hill and out on this farm field, he said it looked like the devil. It was like a guy running around in circles and it had a tail, you know, like what you would see with the spade on the end. And this thing was just running around in circles. And at the time, I was like, wow, I've never heard of anything like that. But there actually is an entity. that dates back thousands of years,

and it's exactly how he describes it. It's just a weird, it's so odd to come across something strange like that you've never seen before, even if it isn't a Sasquatch, because it makes you stop and go, what else is out there? Yeah, we were, and I told her, I said, I got drawn to hunt in this area this year.

I said, I'm turning my tag in. I'm not coming down here. I said, I don't know what that was. If that really was a mountain lion, that thing is huge. It's tell when it was crossing the road Its tell was on one side of the road And its nose was clearing the other side of the road

That's how big that thing was She kept saying, look at the size of that lion And I'm like, yeah There's a lion that big out here We're not coming down here anymore My dad and my grandfather were born Within years of each other And him growing up in that same area and everything

They used to tell me and my twin brother And my cousin there was three of us us born real close together, that we'd always like to go out camping when we were teenagers. And he, and they would tell us, we'd go down and they'd say, well, boys, where are you going camping this weekend? And one time we said, we're going to go up to Rogers Lake by Flagstaff. And my grandpa looked dead at us and said, you are not allowed to go there. And we said, why not? And he goes, because Rogers Lake, first of all, right now is drying up and there's nothing but wild onions out there. He says, so you don't even want to go over there.

And he said, besides that, there's something out there when I was a kid, that when we used to go out there that just terrified us. And we were like, okay, we won't go to Rogers Lake, Grandpa, you know, Papa, we'll stay away from there. And he goes, you just need to stay out of that whole area out there. So the Forest Service doesn't really want you in there anyway, so just stay out of there. So, you know, we went in there one time and we were shooting our guns. And within 20 minutes, to shoot shooting, shoot our guns there.

There was nobody around. And the deputy sheriff from the county shows up. up and says, you guys need to move on out of here. Well, the gate was open. He said, yeah, you just need to move on out of here. So we did. And there was another place over on the Mogadion Rim by Payson, Arizona, called Potato Lake, that my dad, when he was in the Civil Conservation Corps back in the 30s,

he said that men would not go to the lake after dark. There was something out in the lake after dark. And they would not go out there. There was a big old monster, and that's what they called it, a monster that was at the lake. It just robed around that lake. And so we talked him into taking us out there one day. And we were sitting there and it was in the evening and starting to get dark. And he whistled for us and we went up there and he goes, we need to get out of here. He said, we're not going to mess around this area. And we said, well, Dad, what are you afraid about? And he said, I'm afraid that something's

going to come up here and get you. And he said, there's nothing I'm going to be able to do about it. And so up in that area, there was a bunch of petroglyphs up on the kett rocks up there. And what was interesting. All these petroglyss are these little tiny men running and in the back was a big giant man that had big broad shoulders and a real skinny waist and a really big head on top of it standing there like he was watching them. My dad said this the Indians don't like here, the Pachis don't like it here, just stay away from here after dark. So when we got older we tried to camp there at dark one at the lake one night and my brother, twin brother was like, no, We're not staying here.

We're out of here. I just got a bad feeling. So we packed up and left. But there's places along that rim out there that the Indians won't go to. And if the Apaches and the Navajos won't go into a place, you shouldn't be going in there either. Right. Because they're generally not afraid of much. Generally not.

And they know what's going on in their hometown, you know. Yeah. And I've heard a lot of that Mogi on Rim. It's kind of notorious. It's kind of a whole, that whole area is. notorious for sightings. Yeah, that thing is like, what is it, 300 miles long? It's where the Arizona, the state breaks and goes to the upper plain.

And it goes all the way from almost the Grand Canyon, all the way to Nogales, Arizona, or Mexico down there. So it's pretty long. And the Indians, there's places that the Apaches, it's just like sacred a place, don't go there. Yeah, I'm with you. No, I'm with you. Generally, when they say don't go to an area, it's for your own benefit, not theirs. So I'm definitely with you.

Well, you don't have to keep me up to date, Jeff. Let me know if anything else happens. I know it's been, gosh, what, almost 18 years since anything's happened. But, you know, if you're ever out there, definitely keep in touch, man. Let me know if you do run in anything. And I really appreciate you coming on and sharing your encounters. Not a problem. And I really enjoy your show.

and I enjoy the therapeutic help that you give us all that have have this. And I really like listening to you and Woody talk about playing poker and giving each other a hard time. So, because I have a twin brother. We do the same thing. Yeah, you got to give your brother a hard time, you know. Oh, I do. My twin brother is a believer at Bigfoot.

And he, when he calls me and says, I'm going camping, do you want to go? And I'm like, do we have to go any place where there's bad guys? Any Bigfoot and anything like that? And he goes, no, we'll just stay in the trailer and said, we'll just take more guns. And I said, that's all we need to do. I said, we'll take guns that way I can shoot you or you can shoot me when they really get bad. There you go, man. There you go, brother.

So anyways, it's good talking to you, Wes. Oh, it was great talking to you. Thanks again, Jeff. Well, next up, I want to welcome Dustin Duncan to the show. He has the show Crypto PTSD on YouTube. If you get a chance, check out his channel, CryptoPtSD. PTSD. Dustin does kind of the same thing I do, interviews, eyewitnesses, and does a good job with it. Dustin, welcome to the show. Thanks, you're coming on.

Hey, Wes. It's nice to be back on, man. I know we were just talking about when you were on, we were talking about it moved like a crackhead. If most people remember that show, gosh, it was probably 300 episodes ago. But you decided to kind of start your own show and you've graciously. invited me to come on as a guest. Why did you decide to start that? You know, one of the things that I couldn't get enough of was listening to other people's encounters. And I listened to your show, a couple others, just all day, every day. And I'm a private investigator, so I drive around in my core a lot. And so I'm able to listen to these podcasts. Well, I got to a point where I was

re-listening to everything. And so initially, I wanted to start it because I wanted to get encounters, you know, I wanted to be a source that people could come to and talk about their encounters with. But to be completely honest, I think it was partially to kind of help me as well, as you have probably learned, helping other people with this kind of also helps you deal with the things you've been through. And so that was probably, the biggest reason why I started my own show. Yeah, no, and you do a great job with it, Dustin. And it's like I was telling you yesterday, you know, it's a lot harder than people think.

It's hard to get someone to share something that, you know, an encounter something very personal, and most people don't want to share it. And so to take the time, and it's just a lot of work. It's a lot more work than I think most people realize. And I was laughing at, you and I were joking around the other day. I was telling you about my interview technique and how. how my interview technique came about. It came about because I didn't know how to interview anyone. I had no clue how to actually perform an interview, but I didn't like the way I'd

heard it in the past. I had co-host on in the past, and they would interrupt every two seconds or interject with their own encounter every show. And I just hated it, and I hated listening to it. And I always come from the perspective of, if I'm a listener listening to the show, would I listen to this. And, you know, sometimes you hit home runs, sometimes you don't, but you try your best every show. And it is. It's definitely, it's more of a struggle than I think most people realize. They just get to hear the fun part, you know, of having someone on the show. But there's a lot of work behind the scenes that goes with it. And it's interesting, too, because I see a lot of guys copying my interview technique. And it just, it's very humbling. It's very flattering. But it makes me

laugh because it came about because I didn't know how to interview someone. You're absolutely right. And if anyone that goes and checks out my show, in the beginning, it's pretty rough. I've almost taken those shows down. But I've gotten to a point where I've kind of figured out my own style of your format. And it's hard to get there because it's one of those things that really can't be taught. You just kind of have to, you know, get an idea. And then learn as you go, but one of the things that I wanted to do to kind of help my show stand out, because you're right, that format is used all over the place. Everyone uses it now. And with my show, because I'm a private investigator and what I do for a living, you know,

I wanted to ask more questions, but it's hard to learn how to do that and not interrupt. So the beginning, you know, probably 20 shows, I was learning how to do my own format. But now I think I just did show 50, or episode 50. And now I've gotten it down and now things flow a lot smoother. But you're right, Wes. And the problem is, is you make it look easy. So when you start your own, you think, oh, I'm just going to be awesome, you know, like Wes. And then you quickly learn that is not how things work out.

Yeah, well, I appreciate the kind of words, man. Yeah, it is. It's hard. And like I said, you do a really good job of that because that's the hardest thing. I mean, for the audience listening, you don't want to have it interrupted. But as a host, and it's not really ego, you just kind of feel like you want to step in. And a lot of times when you do that, you've just ruined the show. It's like, just sit back and shut up. And I'm talking to myself when I say that. Just shut up. Don't like hold your question. Let them get, you know, let the person get through the thought. And it makes for a. better show. It really does. And is there any encounter that really stands out to you? You've done 50 shows. Is there one or maybe two that really have stuck with you? Yeah, absolutely. There's a, so on my show, I do more than Bigfoot. Now, I will say probably 90 to 95 percent of my shows are Bigfoot encounters, but I'll, I'll accept anything as long as I believe the person. But there's, there is and there's a guy that came on the show from Oklahoma and his name's Barry. He lived on a property and it really reminded me at the beginning. I was kind of thinking, this is going to be

my siege of Hanobi. I was all excited and it kind of was, but he's had so many sightings that it's almost unreal. But when you listen to it, Barry and I actually got to meet Barry. I met him at the Honobie conference in Oklahoma last year. And I got to see him tell his encounters. And, you know, it's one thing to hear someone's encounters. But when you actually get to see them, it kind of changes the game because you know really quickly if they're telling the truth or not. And Barry, we're standing in the middle of a parking lot and his arms were just lighten up with goosebumps as he was telling these encounters. And so that one's probably stuck out the most. And the craziest thing that happen. There were two big encounters that happened there. And now, of course, I've got a two-part

show of all of his encounters, but one of them, he was sleeping in bed at night, and he thought that someone was set off tannerite or dynamite, but he was thinking, there's some kids that bought a bunch of tannerite, and they're shooting it off because he would, his house would shake. You know, he didn't put this together. So it was happening. over a period of time where he actually called law enforcement, and law enforcement was patrolling the area, you know, trying to figure out what was going on. Of course, they never heard anything.

Well, one night, he lived in a brick house. He was sleeping in bed, and all of a sudden this boom, and it shakes the house. And he said he literally bounced out of bed, and his dog sleeping next to him also bounced up out of the bed. the next morning, and that's the first time he saw, I think something's hit in the house because he would feel the shake, but, you know, brick house is a pretty solid, you know, just kind of like a vibration, he would hear the noise.

He went out the next morning and just above his bed, now, of course, I remember I was at like 10 or 11 feet up, but there was a couple bricks that were cracked, and one of them was actually like crushed to powder. He was just polarized where he believes this thing hit it. So, of course, this got everything kind of amped up. They were stealing his dog food. A couple of encounters with that.

But there was another night his sister was on the property. And, of course, they were talking about what was going on. And he had just heard a noise that he thought was a young one crying. And so she asked him, you know, can you do it? And he's like, yeah. And so he makes the noise. and he said as soon as he made the noise he knew there was a mistake and i can't remember if there was a noise that originally alerted him to this area but there no i think it was his dog his dog kind of

alerted over to the field just next to them and he took a spotlight and shined it and he saw one of these things in short grass i mean it was very clear it's not like something far away couldn't see crawling like a spider on its fingertips and toes. And he said the way that it was moving, he said it was about two or three inches off the ground, you know, its chest and belly, but it looked like its arms were swimming and it would reach way in front of it

and just put its fingertips down. And as it was crawling, its hand would stay all the way on the ground until it was back at its waist and the other one was up. And he said it, he made a couple of swimming motions towards him and then veered off to the side. And one interesting thing that he said is he's like, Dustin, I never heard anything. And this thing was moving so fast like this that I believe if I was running, it could have caught me.

And this was, he said it was a gray big foot, I believe. I could be wrong on that detail. But it was a gray big foot, probably weighed about a thousand pounds. about nine foot tall, and he said this thing was just gracefully moving like a spider. Yeah, that's crazy. I just did a show Friday night, and my guest was just talking about that, moving like a spider, and it kind of makes me grin from ear to ear when I hear that. Because in my own encounter, when I said that years back,

all these Bigfoot experts and Bigfoot researchers, they all mocked me for and said, well, they get down on all fours, but they don't really move like a spider. and it just drove me nuts because I'm like, I'm telling you, it wasn't just down on all fours. This thing moved like a spider. And when you hear that from an eyewitness, it really makes you stop and take notice because it's just an odd movement for someone to describe. You know, not like getting down like a cat and running on all fours. This is a very different type of movement. It's very low to the ground.

It's very fast. And it's just, I don't know. I guess I'm rambling. I guess I'm rambling, Dustin. but it makes me grin because I remember how much crap I got for that. You know, now you hear eyewitnesses say that. And is it that stuff still going on out there at Barry's property? Yes.

So he had a tornado wipe out his house. And so he's got a camper and they're going to start building back this year. Now his camper, he's been staying at a place that I believe is like two miles north. So he's not experiencing as much because. he's not actually on the property, but he still goes down there and he calls me all the time telling me, actually, just last week, they went out there, they got some whoops and some screams, and they're going to, like I said, they're going to start building at the end of the year, and I'm actually going to go there and do his encounter in person, video encounter,

and show the whole place, but Barry's, Oklahoma is just these things are everywhere, that state, well, at least on one side of it. And towards the haulers and the mountains that are in the state, close to Honobi. But I'm excited to go down there and Barry, when you listen to him, he's just one of those no-nonsense guys. And he's got a harder goal. And I'm excited to go down there. But there's always some encounter, some detail that sticks out. And then when it does, is it just, you just can't get past it like the spider crawling. And I've only heard that a handful of times counting your encounter. But every time you hear it, I just imagine some sort of monster crawling on the ceiling, you know, on its fingers,

and toes, because that's about the only way you can picture it. Yeah, you're right. And it is. I mean, it's creepy. It's creepy to see. It's creepy to see. I'll tell you what's even creepier than spider crawls, watching them go from two feet down to a spider crawl. It's like they just collapse and fall into that position. It's very odd.

There are all of these interviews, and I'm curious about any others that stood out in your head, but before we get into that, out of all of these interviews, what do you think Sasquatch is, Dustin? I know I asked you before. Has it changed? Yes, it has changed a little bit. So I used to say, you know, like an ape 2.0, you know, they act a lot like an ape, but they're obviously physical differences and then behavioral differences. Now I've kind of got taken a broader term. If I had to say they were something, man, this is the question, isn't it? I'll compare them with another animal that I think, I think they're the killer whale of the land. you know, Killer whales, they extremely intelligent.

We don't know very much about them. We're just now starting to learn some stuff about them, but they're amazing. And Killer whales, the scientific community is reluctant to say anything else other than humans uses language, but there's every indication that killer whales use language. And I also believe that these things do because of my own experiences, just my opinion, but I think they're the killer whales of the land. You know, a lot of people know that they're out there. Scientific community doesn't recognize it, but they're intelligent. They work as a team from everything we can see.

They're strong family units. So when it comes to what they actually are, I still have no idea. But if I had, if I got to compare it to an animal, it would be the killer whale of the land. I got you. Out of the 50 shows, what's the hardest thing? What's the hardest obstacle you've come across? Two things. One, to get the south out of my mouth.

I'm from Missouri, and I'm just an average guy. And so that's been really difficult working on how I speak. And then the second thing, probably the Bigfoot community. Is that what you're asking? I'll give a different answer. No, no, I'm just curious what your answer was. It's okay. Yeah, that's probably it. Now, in that, let me say there are a good handful of people that I've met that are, you know, Duke, Tony, you, and there are several others that are just awesome and have helped me and really got nothing out of it.

but there are also people that are, I don't know, man. It's just some of the Bigfoot community is very difficult to deal with. Yeah, they are. It's like dealing with a drunken stepfather is how I would describe the Bigfoot world. And it is. I mean, you just kind of let stuff roll off your back. I mean, obviously that's easier said than done. But was there any other encounters that stood out to you or maybe the strangest thing that you've heard?

Yes, the dog man stuff. That is, the concept is hard for me to grasp, but the people I believe. Now, of course, not everyone, but all the people on my show, I do believe that they saw this creature. And it doesn't make any sense. And that's probably one of the biggest things that bothers me is I can't, you know, with Bigfoot, you can kind of put your finger. on it. Of course, I don't know what it is, but you know, it's some kind of ape or, you know, it's something. But this thing just doesn't make any sense. And I had, I've had a few of those on my show. And it's actually a guy that knows Barry's named Dwight. He came on my show. Very educated,

has a professional job. I can't give what it is. But a very educated guy. and he was driving home one night from work and was going around the curve. And as he was going, now this guy's a coyote hunter. So, you know, when you hunt an animal, your eyes are kind of trained to see the outline of that animal. You know, you're constantly looking for him. Well, he's going around the curve in his Jeep. It's in the middle of the night. And he's got a bunch of lights on his Jeep.

Well, he sees a dead deer on the side of the road with something. behind it. And as he's driving up, he thinks, man, that's the biggest thinking coyote I've ever seen. Well, as he gets up on it, he sees that this coyote is as wide as the deer is, shoulder to shoulder. And the next thing he sees is that this thing actually has shoulders. And he said it was kind of hunkered over the animal. All he saw was the head, the arms, and the shoulders. Like it was just about to start eating it. And so he didn't see the back of it, the back legs. He didn't see none of that.

Well, as he's coming up on this thing, he flips on the extra lights on his, on his car. They may have already been on. I like to be precise in my details. I can't remember on that. But as he's coming up, he said that this thing smiles at him. And he said it was, and I asked him, I'm like, you know, when a dog is pain, panting or something and you kind of whistle at it and it stops panting and kind of turns its head.

They'll kind of pull its lips up. I'm like, was it like that? And he's like, no, this was much more animated than that. And he said, when it was looking at me, he said it wasn't just looking at the headlights on my car or anything like that. He's like, Dustin, it was looking in at me. and he doesn't think that it could see him, but it was looking at his side of the car in the windshield. And he speeds out of there, drives home, and then of course this just kind of flips his world upside down. And this guy's, I think I can say at least this much,

he's a medical professional, and that's about as far as I can go with it. But he's a guy that's very familiar with anatomy. And for him to say that the smile, was much more animated. That just kind of, it's creepy. And again, it's hard to grasp just this creature, but much less this extra detail.

And this guy, of course, I believe he's telling the truth. I bet anyone that comes on my show, I go through my own little process. But when you're listening to people give their encounters, I like to ask a lot of questions. Now, I wait until the end, but I like to ask the questions for a couple reasons. One, I think it paints a picture in the listener's mind, and it paints a picture in my mind. But two, if someone's kind of fib, and I'm sure West you've come across this,

when you start asking the questions, they kind of start to fall apart. And it's not that you're intentionally trying to take it apart. It's just what happened. And so Barry and Dwight are probably the two most, I don't want to say believable, but believable guys. And they had some of the craziest encounters, which at the end of the day, that's what we're there for, but we're there to get the truth. And most of us listen for education, entertainment, and therapy. and so when you hear their encounters, it kind of makes, even if you've never seen anything, the next time you walk outside at night to take the trash out, you kind of do a double take.

I agree. It's, you know, the dog man, I don't know what to think about that. You know, most people are run into it, and you may agree with me or disagree with me on it, but I would say most people that run into it say that they thought it was a physical creature. I have my doubts whether it's truly a full physical creature or not. I'm leaning more towards it being an entity that can appear to be very physical and be very real, but at the end of the day, probably isn't. And the smile you mentioned, I've heard other people that have had dog man encounters that said that.

And I've asked them the same questions you did, Dustin, you know, did it kind of like your dog smiles at you? And it's a very firm no every time. And they'll say it was more like a person smile. at you, kind of a real evil smile at you, which, you know, nothing about Dogman adds up. A canine upright walking around doesn't make any sense. There's nothing about it that makes sense, but a lot of people are seeing it, and a lot of people have the same, they're just as direct on their details as people that run into Sasquatch. Absolutely.

And, you know, I see a lot of, you know, you'll have some guys in a Facebook group, you know, a Bigfoot group that are just ripping apart anyone that's seen a dog man. And they don't listen to their encounters. They just rip it apart because of what it is. And it kind of makes you sit back and kind of smile, you know, because two guys who believe in Bigfoot are making fun of people who have seen Dog Man. And I think that's just ignorance. I think that if we're truly wanting to.

roll the ball forward. We have to sit back and listen to everything. Now, I believe in getting in the details. And so I leave it up to my listeners, you know, whether they believe them or not. But when it comes to the dogman side, I understand people's take on it. I still have that. However, the few people that have been on my show that have talked about this thing, I do believe. And at the end of the day, that's kind of more scary than being able to just write them off.

But I think if we all keep an open mind and a critical mind at the same time, and we listen to these and then we go through the details, I think people start to see there's a little more substance there than maybe they thought before because they never looked into it. Yeah, I agree. I agree. And, you know, one of the things, and we can talk about it on your show, but one of the reasons why, You know, I started talking about lights. Well, I'd seen the lights, but I mean, some of the weird stuff, like I had the rake on and I had, you know, different cryptids. And before I really started doing that, it was John Bitternoggle. Out of all the people out there, you'd think he'd be the guy saying, hey, don't waste your time with that nonsense. But he was the main one that told me. He goes, West, science starts with curiosity.

And he goes, most these bigfoot guys have it wrong. You know, they're trying to duplicate and repeat, you know, trying to do with their evidence. And he goes, in the scientific process, by the time you get to that point, we're trying to duplicate things, you already know the answers. You're just duplicating it for a peer review or someone else to double-check your work. But at that point, you already haven't figured out. But he goes with science, it really starts with curiosity and asking questions. And he's like with the lowland gorillas and, you know, all of the people. It started with eyewitnesses.

Anytime some new species has come out, it always starts with an eyewitness. and he said that is the most important thing. He said, so, you know, listen to those people. You know, these dog man encounters, he goes, I don't know where to steer you in that direction on what to do. My first thing would be just listen to people and see what they say. And then if one person says that they saw the jolly green giant, you can write it off. But if you get 50 people or 100 people saying they saw the jolly green giant, you might want to look into it. And that's what his advice was to me on the whole thing.

And so that's kind of why I'm more apt to bring on some of the weird stuff on the show. And I know you do, again, you do a great job of that. And I can't wait to come on. And for the audience out there, go to Crypto PTSD on YouTube, subscribe, like. Check out Dustin's channel. Dustin, I really appreciate you coming on. Hey, Wes. Thanks for everything, man.

I'm also on iTunes and Podbeam and all that other good stuff. But, you know, Wes, the original reason I contacted you is because I wouldn't have ever started my show without Sasquatch Chronicles. And then after starting it, man, you've just been an awesome guy. You've been someone I've looked up to, but you've also extended a hand and helped me. And as you know, sometimes just getting to connect with other podcasters is a good thing because you go, you face the same issues. But, Wes, thank you for having me on the show. And I look forward to having you online. Thanks, Dustin.

And again, check it out. It's Crypto PTSD on YouTube and iTunes. If you get a chance, check out Dustin's show. And that's it for tonight, everyone. Remember, if you've had an encounter, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. Until next time, everyone. Being across the country faster than the coronavirus and wagering week is your antidote.

I'm Tom Martin. and I'm a veteran sports analyst and respected sports handicapper who will help build ESPN's brand. I've been recognized and awarded by Pro Football Weekly and Gaming Today magazine as the honest handicapper. Let the other guys give you the same old boring sports talk with the same tired storylines. We'll give it to you straight here every Friday on Wagering Week. Don't gamble with other podcasts. Let SportsGuard Network's Wagering Week help your bottom line.