Sasquatch Chronicles - SC EP:461 Crypto PTSD interview with Sasquatch Chronicles

Episode Date: August 15, 2018

Here is a look behind the scenes at my interview with Dustin Ducan, who runs "Crypto PTSD," on iTunes and Youtube. Dustin writes, "Crypto PTSD is a show for people who have had encounters with cryptids. A place to share their stories without fear of ridicule." Join us as we discuss some encounters and experiences that haven't aired on Sasquatch Chronicles...   If you get a chance, check out his YouTube channel here. He is also on iTunes.   I want to thank Dustin for having me on and allowing me to post the interview.

right everyone tonight i've got a very special show lined up for you you know whenever you start a podcast you have these certain goals you know the certain points that you want to hit whether you're successful or not whether you get big or not you kind of have like these certain things that you want to accomplish and as long as you get those you know you'll be okay running your podcast well tonight for me is one of those nights i'm going to be having Wes Ghrmer on the show. I'll bring him on in just a minute. But Wes was, when he came to start my show, I don't think I would have ever started it without Wes Gummer. I went on Wes's show a long time ago. I think I was in the early hundreds, just talking about my encounters. And listening to his show every day and a few others,

that's what got me to want to start crypto PTSD. So today is a very big day for me. me and the show. I'm very happy to bring this to my listeners, but let's go ahead and bring on our guests. Wes, thanks for coming on the show, man. Yeah, I appreciate you having me on, man. Very kind words. Thank you. Wes, I know with Sasquatch Chronicles, a lot of times you can't talk about some of the other encounters. You know, you mainly focus on Sasquatch encounters on your show. So I was wanting to bring something a little bit different to my listeners tonight. You know, they've heard your encounter and they've heard some of the other stuff. But I was just kind of wanting to hear the encounters that you don't have on the show,

maybe because they're about lights or dog man or UFOs or whatever, and just kind of let you go with it. So, Westy, have any of those encounters lined up for us tonight? I sure don't. You're fast. I'm just teasing, man. Yeah, I got a couple. I mean, it's not a lot of times when people don't want to come on the show.

And you know this well, Dustin. I mean, you have enough shows under your belt. You've been doing this for a long time. A lot of times those people don't. They just have encounters. And sometimes they're some of the best encounters you've ever heard, but they just don't want to come on the show for one reason or another. And a lot of those are Sasquatch related.

I have had other strange encounters where I talked to, to some people. I'm trying to think of one, a good one to tell you. I can tell you about the alien encounter. A lady had contacted me, gosh, probably I'm so bad with dates, maybe a year ago, year and a half ago, maybe longer. And what was going on is she was telling me about, she wanted to, she had a big foot encounter. She wanted to tell me about her big foot encounter. So I called her, very sweet woman, very nice. They lived on. this property, I want to say Pennsylvania for some reason, it was a farm, and they kept having these creatures come out of the woods. And they would scream and yell. They would throw stuff at

the house, and they were terrified. They didn't know what they were. They were absolutely terrified. And then she started talking about these lights, and seeing these lights around the same time she's seeing these creatures. And she didn't really know what the lights were. And I was like, well, are we talking about UFOs? Or she's like, well, I'll get into that. But She goes, no, I don't think these are UFOs. They're just balls of light. And you'll see them out in the woods. She's like, here we are in the middle of nowhere.

And you'll just see random balls of light fly through the woods. And she said the creatures would come around certain times of the year. They would come out and kind of harass these people. But then she started talking about this black triangle flying over the house. And she actually had pictures of it. And she said that they would see it all the time. and she was more terrified of this black triangle than the Sasquatch creatures. Excuse me.

So I was asking her about this. Well, come to find out, she has been, throughout her whole life, she's been taken. And she started going into some of that with me. And I felt really bad talking to her because she would break down in tears. But I'll tell you the strangest thing. So we got on the phone, and I'm talking to the husband first. and he's telling me what's going on. He's well aware of what's going on,

and he's been put in that situation, and they had a little girl, too, as well, and she had been supposedly taken. So I get on the phone with the wife, and the strangest thing happened. So I'm on the phone with her, and the phone started cutting out, like a weird static,

like you put a magnet on a TV, you know how it'll cause it to go up and down or cause it weird waves. That's kind of in the same breath, how I saw this phone conversation, because it sounded like, I don't even know how to describe it. It wasn't like your normal cell phone interference. And she told me, they don't like you. And I was like, I have no idea what you mean.

What do you mean? Who doesn't like me? And she said, they don't like you. And so she wanted to go for a drive and call me. And so she left. She called me back. And she starts telling me about how from when she was a little girl, she started getting taken. going back to the Bigfoot thing.

So here's how the whole thing kind of wraps around, sorry, all over the board. So they end up moving away from that property. And because they don't like the black triangle, she's almost aware of what's going on there and who they are. But she doesn't know what these creatures are. And I know the whole story sounds like a person with mental disease telling you the story, but follow me on it. So they move away from there and they move close to a military base. thinking there's no way their black triangles are going to be flying over this military base. And oh, by the way, we're not so far out in the country now.

We'll never see those Sasquatches again. So they live in an apartment next to this military base. And what happened was the triangle kept showing up over the apartment now. She said the craziest thing. One time she went out there, she heard screaming and yelling like she did back in Pennsylvania. And she said between the highway was this. I don't know how you would describe it. There's trees and there's bushes and there's everything in there.

And she said out walks two of these creatures looking at her, looking in her direction in the apartment complex. And so she goes through the whole story with me. And, you know, when you're on the phone with someone, you just kind of get the feeling like, I think this person's telling the truth. And that's how I felt when I was talking to her. I was like, I really think this woman's telling the truth. And she goes, Wes, I can prove it to you.

She goes, I know this sounds like a crazy story. She goes, if I heard it, someone told me this story, I would think they were nuts. And she goes, I'll prove it to you if you want me to prove it to you. And I said, well, I don't need any proof. She goes, no, I already sent it. Check your email. And in the email was behind her ear, behind her daughter's ear, and I believe behind the husband's ear, there was like a triangle, like three dots in a triangle formation. And within that triangle, it almost looked like there was something underneath the skin.

She also had one on her belly. Now, these weren't like flattering pictures, so I know she's not just, you know, sending me, you know, random pictures. I mean, there weren't very flattering pictures, but you could tell there was something underneath the skin. It almost looked like a little chip or something underneath all three of these people. And with the alien encounter was a lot of poltergeist activity in the house. She said she had these toys for her daughter up above the fireplace. and late at night, when the triangles would come around and they'd fly over, those dolls would come alive. And I said, what do you mean? She said, like, heads would turn on their own.

And, I mean, she was just frightened. This woman was completely frightened. Asked me what I would do to get out of this situation. Asked me what was going on. Is there something between these creatures and these aliens? But come to find out, she'd been abducted most of her life. It was a very sad story. And you could hear it in her voice. I mean, you could hear just desperation in her voice. Even her husband's voice, complete desperation.

And it broke my heart, and I didn't really know what to say to them at that point. You know, how do you get away from something like that? You know, and you've got to be careful sometimes with, you know, being spiritual. But that was the only advice I had at the time because they really made me stop and wonder, Dustin. You know, why is it all three of these things or all or all four of these things are happening to this woman? She's seeing the lights. She's seeing Sasquatch. She's seeing stuff in the air.

And then she has poltergeist activity. You know what I mean? So it raised a lot of questions. But that's one thing I can think of. Yeah. And Wes, have you ever heard people say that as a child, if you've had a near-death experience, that you're more susceptible to having encounters with these types of things? Do you remember if she had ever mentioned anything?

or maybe had some reason as to why she thought this was happening to her? No, I don't think she ever mentioned anything with regard to a near-death experience. One thing she did mention, and I thought it was interesting, is her and her daughter and her husband all had the same blood type. And I don't know what made me ask that question, but I asked it, and she knew right away, and all three of them had the same blood type. But I think some of that stuff you have to welcome in, and some of it may be unintentionally welcoming it in.

And, you know, demons can manifest in many different, you know, what's the devil? He's a liar and a trickster. You know, the devil is kind of a broad term for demonic activity. And so it makes me wonder sometimes if maybe someone had welcomed this in or brought something in or, but in her case it's hard to say because they've been going on for so long. I mean, she was older than I am, and this has been going on her whole life. And she had some horrific stories of being taken in the middle of the night. And she shared a lot of things that were just horrific. And I don't think that she's insane.

And I don't think she's making it up. But she never mentioned anything regarding a near-death experience. Do you remember what the creatures looked like that she saw that came out of the woodline that night? She had seen them many times come out of the woodline. And I actually had talked to the husband to as well. And they both described them to me. It was a lot like Patty. On a few occasions when they stepped out of the wood line, she'd mentioned glowing red eyes.

And I said, could it have been eyeshine? And she said, no, these were lit up like Christmas tree lights. And the husband confirmed it. He said, yeah, I did see that. And he's a hunter. And I asked him, I said, well, was it eye shine? And he goes, West, this wasn't eye shine. These were like light bulbs lighting up.

And he said almost where you can kind of see the outline of the creature when they came out. But the way they looked was very much like the Patterson Gimlin type creature, kind of an overgrown ape. That makes you wonder what's the connection and why is it this family? Because a lot of times I know with Saskwax, it seems like they tend to focus in on one. family member, but all the entire family dealing with this and then the the markings under the skin. What do you think that was? I mean, in your opinion, is there any way she could have faked that from what you saw? I, I don't think so, man.

I don't think, obviously, yeah, the answer could be yes. It could have faked it. But she had a lot of stories. I don't know if I'm comfortable repeating, but she had a lot of, let me put it to you like this. She had a lot of her encounters with these things were her being the victim, and they were very embarrassing stories. And so with her, you know, and she broke down in tears on the phone. Husband broke down in tears on the phone. So you have these people, you can tell they're under stress, and they're cracking the minute you really start asking for details, they break down and start crying.

I don't think that she faked it. And what's interesting is the picture, and I think I still have it. in my email. The picture, if you go to some of these people that claim they've been taken by aliens, if you look at that microchip, and you can watch stuff on YouTube where people have actually had them taken out and they can't describe what the material is, it's not a material from Earth, that's kind of what it looked like. That's really what it reminded me of when I saw it.

And she did not want to come on the show. She absolutely refused to come on the show. Did not want it on the blog, and I respected that. I asked her if I could talk about it, if I left the names out and everything and left some different things out. Because she's actually a working professional. That's the other thing. She kind of has a very professional-type career. And so for her to make up something like this and then not want to come on the show, not want it on the blog.

And just the way they acted, I really believe that what she says is going on is going on. Yeah, and Wes, as you know, sometimes people don't want to come on the show. And normally the people that are hard to believe, I've had more than one conversation with them. And either they contradict themselves or whatever. But the people that you do believe, you know, you end up kind of becoming friends with because for whatever reason, they come to us and they end up kind of leaning on us and so you feel responsible for them. But those that at the end of the day don't want to come on the show, I mean, to me, that just adds credibility.

And plus, it sounds like you talk to her several times. And I know, like with me, I don't want to waste my time. And so I'm not going to invest that much time and energy in someone that I think is spinning me a tail. So that's amazing. Yeah, and you're right. I mean, and it's not, I wish more people would come on the show. show. I understand sometimes when they don't want to, but, you know, there's been great encounters

that no one's ever heard of because people didn't want to come on the show. And it's frustrating because with me, it's like, well, what do you do with it? You know, you just kind of put it on the shelf. It's, you know, I don't record people unless they know I'm recording them. I don't, I never start off any, people know when they're being recorded. And so I'll never just start recording someone. And if they refuse to come on the show, you kind of got to let it go at that point. But you still get a lot of good information from people. You know, you get a lot of really good information from people. Before I started having people on with Dogman, and those people are the toughest to get on, by the way. I would talk with them. And before I really

believed that it was what they said it was, you know, I was thinking, well, they must be misidentifying Sasquatch. They must be misidentifying a type of Sasquatch that has a softwares. now. That has to be it. And so I decided to really start listening to these people, and I came to the conclusion really quick, it's not a primate. These people are not describing a primate. They're describing a canine. And they're very direct on their details on what they saw. And so, I don't know where I'm going off with that tangent. But my point is, sometimes you get some of the best information from people who don't want to come on the show, like the dog man. You know, by the time I had a dogman encounter on, I'd probably heard 50 or 60 dogman encounters from people who didn't want to come

on the show. And so it's like I already kind of knew what someone was going to say because I'd heard it so many times off the air. So you got to kind of roll with it sometimes if someone wants to go on or not. But either way, information is information. You know what I mean? Absolutely. And I know that sometimes people have contacted me that don't want to come on the show will let me share their story. So do you have any of those regarding Dogman that you might be able to relay some of the details and they didn't want to come on your show? Oh, man. I'd have to think about that. I'd have to think about that.

And I'm not blown off your question. I just need to think about that real quick because there's been so many. You know, there's been, you know, there's one guy that I can think of who actually did end up coming on the show. And you have to forgive me, Dustin. I talked to so many people that sometimes it all becomes a blur sometimes. But there was a guy one time who I tried so hard to get him to come on the show. And he just refused and refused and refused. And finally I was able to, just out of the blue one day, he contacted me and said,

hey, I guess I'll come on if you'll change my name. And because of his profession, he was like the only guy in town that did that. very professional job. And so if you heard the name of the town, knew his voice, you would know who it was. But he, anyway, he eventually came on the show, and he lent it out. He was actually, he went into the preaching work because of the whole thing. But later on, he got into a profession there in town. And what ended up happening is he was out in the woods. I want to say Pennsylvania. I could be wrong on that. And he was out with his girlfriend, and they were out, you know, being young kids, drinking, kissing, and, you know, having a hell of a time. And he said they were parked, and a herd of

elk came rushing by the car. And he said he was a little in shock on how close they came to the car. And then they took off. And later on, a few minutes later, something pushed the back of the car. And he thought it was one of his high school buddies. And so he opens up the door, which turns on the dome light, and he gets out, and he, as he's stepping out of the car, starting to turn his head towards the back of the car, he's literally face to face with this thing. And he described it being about seven feet tall. He said it was snarling at him. And he said it was the biggest wolf feet ever seen in his life. And I said, was it on all fours? And he said, no, it was standing up like a man. And he said that had the most evil look on its face. And he said it was drooling like it had

been running. And so he thought it was chasing the deer. And then they ran into them. So these things stopped. And he went into a lot of details. He said it was very real skinny in the waist. He said as far as weight goes, it wasn't like a thousand pound Sasquatch people talk about. He said this thing was probably 500 pounds. But it was like 7'2 standing. up and he said he was actually looking up at it and it was looking down at him and he said just the drool coming off and the way it snarled up and he said but the body reminded him kind of like a man wide shoulders went down to a v in the waist big legs and he said it had claws and he said his girlfriend started screaming well she had seen that another one was stepping out behind that

one. And that's what she actually saw. And as she turned around to tell her boyfriend to get back in the car, she'd seen the one he's literally four feet away from. And so he got in the car and tore out of there. And he later on became a preacher because of it. And then he did a different job there in town. But it was a very fascinating account because it happened, I want to say this was like late 60s, 70s, way before anyone was talking about the dog man. And he said it always bothered him because it did not look like the Patterson Gimlin film. He goes, Wes, it was a wolf. It was an upright standing wolf? And I asked him, was it physical?

And he said, yeah, this thing was absolutely physical. He said it was, you could see it breathing in and out with its chest. And it was just there. And then when he tore off, it was, you know, and he had never been back to that area. I think he recently went back and it's all built up now. but it was a very fascinating account because this guy, like I said, I'd spent, I don't know, year and a half, two years trying to get him to come on the show, and then eventually one day he decided to come on, and that one always stuck with me.

You know, I have other ones, too. There's a lady who, she came on to talk about her Sasquatch encounters, but she was telling me about her nephew, and her nephew was a pretty good kid. He had lived his whole life he wanted to be a police officer. That's all he ever wanted to do was be a cop. And he always told his aunt, I want to be a cop. I want to help people. You know, I want to, you know, so he worked his whole life and eventually became, I want to say state trooper.

And he's out in Texas. And he pulls over these guys, these three Mexicans in a truck because they were speeding down this road. Pulls them over, walks up, asks them for their ID. And he said that they started screaming. and just going nuts. And he said, all of them were saying lobo, lobo, lobo. And the driver reached out, grabbed his driver's license out of his hand, and then started the truck and peeled out of there.

And he said he's going back to his squad car to go run him down. And he said, out of the woods, step this wolf. It was the biggest wolf he'd ever seen. And it was standing up on two legs. And it was snarling at him. So he pulled out his pistol and shot it three times. and he said it had no effect on this thing. He said he knows he hit it three times.

It didn't even phase this thing. So he gets in a squad car and he peels out of there and goes home. And he was telling his aunt because his aunt had never heard a dog man. And his aunt's a very open woman. She was on the show. Very lovely lady. And she's experienced Sasquatch. So he's describing to her what he saw.

She's like, well, I don't know. I've never heard of a upright running around dog. And he's like, no, this was a wolf. And he goes, but the way it stood up, it was like a man. And he said, I shot it three times. Didn't do anything to him. And he goes out there, and he's tracking down. He's supposed to be out there getting speeders and everything like that.

Well, he refused to get out of his squad car. And then he started drinking. And he told his aunt that it was following him. This thing was out there following him around. And he thought for sure it was going to kill. him. And he didn't know what to do. He didn't know what it was. And he kept telling his aunt, this thing follows me. Everywhere I'm out there on that road, this thing shows up. And he ended up killing himself from alcohol poisoning. He just drank and basically drank himself into a grave.

It's a tragic story. And it breaks my heart because, you know, that, you really want to stop to listen to people. Because, you know, a lot of times if they think if anyone's going to listen to me, it's going to be dust and off crypto PTSD. And then if he calls you and you shoot him down, or Wes with Sasquatch Chronicles and I shoot him down, you know, it could cause a lot of problems. And in his case, I think he felt like no one believed him. And I think he was truly feared for his life.

And it's tragic he started drinking because he spent his whole life to become a cop. And, you know, all that was destroyed in a matter of months. Yeah, and the one thing I've noticed over the encounters that I've gotten, and I've only got a few on my show with Dogman, but, you know, the first one you told, it bumped the car. That's why the guy got out of the car. The second one, it followed the guy. You know, it's like these things are set out to torment, or they like that interaction where they see your fear. you know, I don't know how many encounters I've heard where it's like you make one of these things mad and then you've got a big problem. What's your whole take on that and then just dog man in general?

Well, I think one question kind of answers the other one. I think your general animal out there won't sit and torture you or doesn't really enjoy having you in fear. Either they're going to kill you or they're not going to kill you. There's really no in between with just about anything, you know, a bear or a cougar, even a wolf. isn't going to sit in torment. It's either going to attack you or it's going to leave. And I think with these things, you know, I think it with, I am a firm believer that the dog man is a, is a demonic entity that appears to be very physical when people see it. And they think it's an animal. And I don't believe for one moment, it's an animal. And so I think going along with

demonic activity, what is it that poltergeist love to do? Or what is it when someone has a demon in their house, what is it that they love to torment people and they love to strike fear in you. And you hear that time and time again with demon encounters to where it seems like it gets off on tormenting you, putting you in fear. And you see the same thing with dog man. It's almost like dogman enjoys seeing you in fear and seeing you terrified. And I've heard it time and time again with these dog man encounters. And so I, that's what I think it is. There's a lady I had on one time and it kind of um i hope i'm not taking over here dustin am i no you're fine man go it's about you not about me i feel like i'm rambling man i don't want you to think i'm just taken

over um there's a lady one-time ad on the show and she had oh gosh she had so many it was more or less paranormal type stuff going on around this property and it was her the property was built on this old Indian burial ground. And there were certain parts of this property where weird stuff would happen. And just weird lights, weird, sometimes they would see what appeared to be people running through the woods and they would disappear. Just a lot of weird things that were going on. Well, she's in her home one day.

And she's telling me the story about how she's sitting at the dinner table. and she said that in the house, before I tell you this, in the house was a lot of poultry ice type activity. There was bad things going on inside the home. And so this seemed relatively mild. But anyway, as she's sitting at the dinner table, she said that this misdivere starts appearing in front of her, and she said that this dog man appeared in front of her. She called it a werewolf, but she said it was basically a werewolf appeared in front of her. and it was looking down at her. And I think it had like, I can't remember what color.

Was it like a light gray or something like that? But anyway, it's looking down at her. And then she said it's gone. Well, she had just had family friends over. And they had just left when this happened. And as the same disappears, the family friends tear out of her driveway, throwing gravel everywhere. And they tear off home.

Well, she calls them because she's mad. She's like, why you guys turn up my driveway on your way out? And he goes, we just saw the biggest gray wolf, bigger than any wolf I've ever seen in my life on all fours, rushed the car. That's why we peeled out of your driveway. And she was like, Wes, if you want to talk to them, you can. But they basically described the same thing she had seen. And in their mind, it was just a large wolf on all fours chasing the car. And they didn't stick around for it.

So you hear some dogman encounters, and it really makes you wonder, is that what dog man is? Or is it something manifesting itself to appear to be a dog man? I tend to think that's what dog man is. I think it's a demonic entity. And for whatever reason can appear to be physical. That I don't have an answer for. Yeah. And it's funny, as you're telling that I haven't thought about this for a long time.

I had a lady email me right at the beginning of my show. show, didn't want to come on the show, didn't give me your name, didn't give me anything. She just like, here's something that happened to me and my husband while we were out camping one night, just wanted to tell someone, you know, thanks for what you do. And so I'm, I feel safe that I can share it. But she said that her and her husband were camping one night. And I think it was either when they were dating or maybe when they just first got married. camping, laying there looking up at the stars, and they hear something. They both sit up and they said that they saw this massive black wolf.

And they said that she said it was on all fours. It looked exactly like a wolf, except it was huge. It was the biggest wolf they had ever seen. And all it did was it looked at them and it trotted down the woodline, stopped, looked back. And then she said as it turned, it was like it just vand. It was just gone. Like they didn't actually see it walk into the woods. Now, I don't know if that's because it was dark or what, but that, you know, it's things like that because that woman, I believe, she got no glory out of telling me that.

She never knew that I was going to tell that. She just wanted to share something that happened. And I've had other encounters like that. So it really does make you wonder what's going on with these things. Yeah, it does. The other thing, too, is, and sometimes you'll get encounters that seem very natural. I guess as natural as you could say for a dogman. One of the very first dogman encounters I ever had on the show was a guy who, you know, those game calls where guys will, they're like, you put them in your mouth and you can do a different game calls.

Yeah. Anyway, I forget what they call them. Game calls. We'll just call it that. Anyway, he made those. He actually made those. And so if you ever go into a sporting goods store and you buy one of those things, you're probably buying his model. And so he had spent his whole life hunting.

Never saw a Sasquatch, never saw a dogman, didn't believe in any of it. Thought it was all just nonsense. And he would go out to different properties and he would get paid to get rid of predators, whether it be coyotes or a cougar or a bear. And he would go out and hunt these properties and get rid of these predators. Well, he's out there one day, and he's doing a wounded rabbit call. And so he's doing this call over and over and over again. Well, he sees this wolf coming down, and he said it was the biggest wolf he'd ever seen.

So he stopped doing the call and raised up his rifles waiting for it to come up over the hill. And as it came up over the hill, it was on all fours, and it stood up on two legs. And he goes, it stood up like a man, Wes. He goes, I don't know what to tell you. It stood up like a man. And he goes, but it was a wolf. He goes, this was not a Sasquatch. This was a wolf.

And so it stands up on two legs, and he said it kind of sniffed the air and zeroed in on where he was at. And he said, it looked directly at him. And he had the scope on it. And so he's trying to figure out, okay, should I shoot this thing? Should I, you know, he's like the whole standing up thing threw me off. And he said, the minute he's trying to think about that in his head, he said it took off running on two legs. And so he stands up to try and get a beat on. it and he said, Wes, it was the fastest thing I'd ever seen in my life. He goes, there's not an

animal out there in North America that could catch this thing, running on two legs. And he said, it just ran off into the forest and it was gone. But he described, you know, what the face looked like and, you know, your typical dog man, but he said, when it stood up, he goes, it stood up like a man. He goes, it's the weirdestest thing I ever saw my life. And then it ran like a man. And so in his case, you know, that's a very, it sounds very physical, you know, and when you hear it, it doesn't sound like a demon. It sounds very physical. So sometimes it makes you wonder, I lean more towards it being something more supernatural than actually physical. But, you know, that's my two cents, which is worth about half a cent.

So since we're on the topic of talking about some of the encounters on your show, can you tell us your. your favorite encounter that's been on your show that has kind of, I don't know, something that was really special to you. Either it started to change the way you looked at these creatures or it just started to change your perception as a whole. Because as, as you know, sometimes you talk to certain guests and you can just tell. I mean, 100% they're telling the truth. They're very straightforward people and sometimes they have the craziest encounters and that kind of rocks you as a host more than anything else. So are there any that come to mind over the last 446 shows? Congrats, by the way, but over the last 446 shows that stand out to you. Yeah, that's a tough one. Boy, that's a tough one.

You know, I was, I've always talked about the two brothers. They've, they changed my opinions on a lot of things, talking to those guys. I think they really changed my opinions on a lot of things. And I know I've told that a million times. There's one encounter recently at on the show where, I can't remember what the name of the title was. I think it was, I wouldn't believe it if I didn't see it. And it was the guy who, um, he'd come upon this little tiny Sasquatch stuck in a tree. tree. He had actually fallen out of the tree into this crevice. And so when he walked up on it,

he was going to help it get out of the tree. And he ended up seeing two other females. And they, I think one roared at him or screamed at him. I think it screamed at him. And so he took off. And he goes home. And I don't know if you remember this one or not, Dustin, but he goes home. And it's on his mind. It's on his mind. He takes time off work. He can't get this out of his mind what he had just seen. And so he goes back. And he runs into this old woman. He's on his motorcycle. He goes back to the area, runs into an old woman that lives there. And she starts talking to him about his encounter. And he's like, how do you know that? I haven't told anyone about my encounter. And she goes, oh, they told me. And he's like, what? And so he ended up going to her house.

Well, when he went to her house, there was two little ones in the house. And it sounds like a ridiculous story, unless you actually listen to this guy tell it. And that always kind of stuck with me. And he said she would talk back and forth with the creatures. He eventually got scared because of the big male. But he said he talked to her a lot about these creatures. And what ended up happening was her husband died back in the 70s. and she started just feeding these creatures

and kind of taking them in, taking care of them. But he said it was the weirdest thing. Like she would speak like the Ron Moorhead, the samurai chatter, and they would answer her. Or she would click and they would answer her. And so I wish he would have asked more questions about like, okay, how do you know how to talk to them? How do you know how to on and on and on?

But I would say that one kind of stuck out to me. And, you know, he said the female looked, one of the females looked very human-like. And just the way he retold his encounter, I actually believe the guy, you know, and it was fascinating, probably one of the more fascinating shows I've ever done. The only other one recently was a gentleman I had on,

and this is another one where I'd been talking to him for, it was Tommy. I said a year, I think Tommy's actually right, it was probably closer to two years we've been talking, where he ended up out at this, he was getting abused at home and they sent him out to a, what's it called? Kind of like a... Oldway his home or something?

Yeah, kind of like a halfway house or something like that for troubled youth. And I guess the guy was really, really abusive. And he used to just, I mean, and Tommy didn't even go into it on the show. I mean, just horrific things that this guy used to do, whip them, go after them with pitchforks, tie them to a point. hold, make him until the sun burns them, leave him out there all night, let him freeze, and just real torturous things. And so he kept trying to get away from this guy. He kept trying to, he didn't want to be around this guy. So every time he ran away, this guy would always track him down and find him. And one of the times he ran away, it was one of the last times he ran

away, he's got stuck in the swamp. And he's about, you know, chin deep. He eventually got about chin deep in the swamp. And he couldn't pull, you know, he said every time you push down with one of your feet to pull your other foot out, you're basically digging yourself a hole. And so he's screaming, he's crying. And he's just a kid at this time. I want to say he's like 11 years old. And he's screaming and he's like, I'm going to drown. I know I'm going to drown. His boots actually fell off in the swamp. And he's like, I'm going to die out here. And as he said, as he's crying and screaming, the woods just come alive. And he said, it sounded like a bulldozer coming right at, right for him. And he was like, I was, I was stuck. I was, there's nothing I could do. And he said,

the same step out of the woods, and it looked like a monster. He goes, it was ugly. And he kind of liken it to the, the, the, uh, the beef jerky commercial, that Sasquatch. He said the hairline was, um, it was a female, had big, huge breasts. But he said the hairline was almost like a man losing his hair. And he said, it kind of looked like that, but not exactly, but it's just really ugly. And it came right up to him. And he's sitting there kind of screaming and crying and looking up at it. And it grabs him behind the back of the neck, grabs his sweatshirt and yanks him right out of the swamp and holds him out in front of it. And he said the whole time he was kicking and hitting its arm. And he said the thing stunk. And he said it walked towards a road. And he said, it

walked towards a road and basically dropped him in the ditch and then just stood there and looked at him. And he said the whole time it was breathing in and out. He said that when it actually breathed out, it was so, it was almost never ending. And he said he just kind of looked up at it and just kind of looked at him and cocked its head like a dog. And eventually they heard the guy coming in the car. So the creature just went back into the woods and left him there. And I thought that was fascinating because it showed compassion. This thing had compassion for him. And I know Tommy doesn't necessarily feel that way, but, you know, this thing could have left him there too and let him die or it could have killed them too. But it had that compassion to actually pull him out. And it made

me wonder if the creature had been seeing what was going, had to have known what was going on that farm. Probably had seen Tommy several times. But yeah, no, I mean, there's a lot. There's a lot, man. I could go on for three hours on some of the encounters that have really stood out to me. I know I didn't do a great job answering your question, but... No, no, man, doing fine. So like with my encounters, I perceive them as aggressive. I mean, and I believe that you feel the same way about yours, that they were very aggressive encounters,

even though it didn't feel like we really did anything to deserve it. So when it comes to the encounters that you... Where you hear of this compassion, or you hear of them, you know, either warning someone to get out or whatever it may be. What is your opinion on that? Do you think it's different types? Do you think it's just different individuals? Do you think it's just the situation at hand?

What's your opinions on that? Well, I think it could boil down to different types. It seems like with, I've never really heard a super compassionate story where someone said it was a chimpanzee. But some of these other, you know, that looks like a chimpanzee. see you down in the south a lot. Generally, those tend to be very aggressive. But I think a lot of times with these creatures, whatever they are, I think that they can show compassion.

And I really think it's more of an individual. It depends on the individual. Like in Tommy's case, you know, he said it had breasts. So obviously it was female, was probably a mother. Here's a little kid in a swamp. You know, if I'd come across a little Sasquatch and it looked like he was going to drown, I'd probably pull him out too. but I think it depends on the individual.

And I think it depends on a lot of different things. Because there's a lot of situations where they do show compassion. There's a lot of situations where they do seem to, may not necessarily want to interact with you, but they're not going to kill you in the same breath. And so, but I think those situations are far and few between. I think a lot of times when they react like that, they've either been around humans or,

had seen, you know, had gotten, it's fascinating because a lot of times with encounters, I'll give you another example, when it comes to children, they generally are, and I know you always hear that they eat kids, and they may eat kids, but a lot of times in some situations, they don't, and they're very gentle with kids. There's a lady I had on the show, and I know where she was at, it was here in Washington State. This is probably late 60s, and she's in this area. It's east of Mount St. Helens or west of Mount St. Helens. And she's in this little campground.

And it's still there today. It's run down, but it's still there today. And she had stepped, she was playing out in this baseball field. And she looked up and everyone's running back to the campsite where everyone's staying. I mean, everyone's running. Kids, everyone. And she's looking up trying to figure out why everyone. one's running, she turns around and literally two or three feet away from her is what she

described as a huge gorilla looking right at her. And it's just looking down at her. And so she takes off running, but she's looking at it in the eyes that she's running. And she ends up running in a circle around this thing, around and around and around this thing. And she's trying to run, but she's locked on its eyes. And it's just sitting there looking at her. And eventually, you know, she, someone called her and said, you know, from the campsite yelled her name. And some of the parents were going back out there. And then she took off running. And I guess the creature just walked back into the woodline.

Didn't never growled at her, never, didn't show its teeth. And which is kind of, he's probably looking at her thinking, what in the world are you doing? But it's fascinating because it could have killed her. If it wanted her, it could have killed her. There's no one there that would have caught this thing. You could have snapped her neck and took off running, no one out there is going to catch it. And it didn't. It just kind of was curious.

And so I think it really depends to answer your question, my long-winded answer. I think it depends on the individual a lot, on the type of attitude you're going to get. If it's been shot at before and you're a hunter in there with a rifle, might be the last time you're seen. So it really depends on a lot of different things, in my opinion. Wes, when it comes to taking some of these more far out encounters, you know, one of the ones I've taken has been a skin walker. And I absolutely believe this guy. So I'm curious, have you ever gotten any skinwalker encounters? I can't really say that I have gotten any skinwalker encounters.

I've gotten weird encounters. I mean, I talked about it on the last show where the mountain biker came down the field. and in this farm field he had seen what appeared to be almost like the devil, and the guy had suspenders on, and it was a crazy story. This thing's running around in circles, and he said it had a tail. And on the end of the tail, it was a spade. And he said, this thing was just running around in circles, just constantly in a big circle, and never stopped.

And they stopped and they looked at it, and they thought, no, that's weird. Let's get the hell out of here. And so they left, but I don't know that I've ever actually. had anyone on that said they saw a skin walker yeah sorry but i wish i'd have better answer for you on that no and i remember that encounter that that that's crazy i've never gotten anything like that that and let me apologize to my listeners i'm kind of jumping subjects here but west and i are just kind of winging it tonight um west what are some of i i know you don't go out and actively research but i know that you've had some other encounters that you've had some other encounters

that you don't talk about very much outside of, you know, the one you had with Woody and then the night that you and Woody were chasing that weird light around, which I do want to talk about later. But are there any other encounters that you've had that you believe were Bigfoot? Now, maybe you didn't have a sighting, but, you know, maybe you and your buddies went out or maybe did some calls or something that you don't usually talk about or haven't talked about very much? I can't really say, I mean, I've talked about what happened.

in Texas when we had the log thrown at us. And I just caught a quick glimpse of what appeared to be a man. I don't think it was a man. I think it was one of these things because we'd been hearing them all night. And then I'd brought someone with me and he had the flare. And that was his first sighting. He was like, holy crap, man. I can't believe I.

And he had seen the thing run into the bushes right before, probably five minutes before it threw a log at us. I can't really anything. I can't see anything really that exciting. I've been out and I've heard vocalizations, but I really haven't had another encounter with Sasquatch that I can think of. I mean, there's really nothing sexy to talk about, you know, beyond going up into certain areas and hearing whoops and screams.

And, yeah, sorry I don't have a great answer for you on it. No, that's fine. You know, it's, but anyway. I'm uh again I'm jumping subjects here so I've got a list of questions that I wrote out so we're kind of all over the place and that's my fault but um what do you think I know you've had uh David Pilates on your show what do you think about the missing 411 cases if if you had to to put something to it what was doing this what would you guess Well, I've never had David on the show, and I can't really, I'm not really in a comment on his missing 4-1-1, but as far as missing people goes, I think there is a lot of people that disappear under strange circumstances. Now, are all of those Sasquatch related? No. There's a lot of things that can happen to you in the woods. You can get lost, you can get hurt. There's more than Sasquatch out there that can kill you. So a lot of the cases I think are, you know, I would say most of them you could probably find a legitimate answer to. But there is some of the stranger cases to where you can't find an answer for it.

And it's like this person just, you know, like when they find someone with their neck snapped and they're thrown up in a tree, well, what's going to do that? A bear's not going to do that. Bear's not going to snap your neck and throw you up in a tree. Cougar is not going to do that. And so sometimes when you find, I think one of the strangest things I ever heard was these guys that went missing on the East Coast and they were stuffed in a tree. And when they found them, these guys were literally stuffed in a tree. You know, like a small backpack you're trying to put a blanket in. I mean, and it was terrible.

And they found the weapons next to the guys. and when they first found them, and this is years ago, probably five or six years ago, when they first found them, they said, yeah, the guns had broken from the, what the story was these two guys were up in a tree and then somehow fell down into the opening of this tree and broke their necks when they fell. Both guys coincidentally broke their necks when they fell, and then they fell into part of the tree. And then they said, well, the guns, when they fell out of the tree, they had broken. Well, there was a picture of the weapons at the time in the paper. One of the actual barrels was bent. Like, Cole Colgan grabbed it and bent the barrel. And it's like, I've been hunting my whole life. You're telling me, these two guys fell out of a tree, broke both of their necks,

and ended up stuffed into this tree, and their weapons are bent and broken on the ground. And no one's questioning this. Yeah, that's not going to happen. Yeah, so some of the missing people, that's what I mean, some of the stories of, and these guys have been missing for a long time, and when they found him, it wasn't a pretty sight. But in that situation, the story doesn't add up. And I've had a lot of those, and I get them sent to me from time to time, but when you read them, it just doesn't add up. The official story does not add up. Yeah. But I think Sasquatch is related to some of these to answer your question. So, Wes, I know that earlier this year, you were following a case where a guy went missing in your area. Did they ever find him?

Or what did you end up figuring out what happened with that guy? Yeah, that one's a pretty tragic story. It was a kid. Well, I say kid. I think he was in his early 20s. But he was actually a, if my memory's right, he was a, what do they call it? When you're a preacher and you go overseas. You know what I'm talking about.

Missionary. Yeah, missionary. And he was away for the weekend, had just been, he'd been gone for months, and he came home, and I know exactly where they were camping at. It's not far from where I had my encounter, but for whatever reason in this campground, I've never had a Sasquatch report, not one. All around this campsite, you'll get reports. You'll get reports of them running across the road just down the street.

But inside the campground, for whatever reason, I've never actually. actually had, and I've camped there before, even prior to my encounter, and you don't really hear anything down in that area. But they were camping there. What ended up happening was, I guess he had been drinking. They were out four-wheeling. They came back, dropped him off because he had been drinking too much, told him to go sleep it off in the tent, and then he just vanished. Now, that didn't add up for me. They said, well, maybe he fell in. into the river. Yes, the river's moving fast right there, but from that camp spot, and I know the camp spot well, and I've even walked down to the river there, it's not that deep. I mean, you're talking,

I don't know, four or five inches. It's really not a deep river right there. And, you know, maybe a foot in some areas in that particular spot. And so, but it's ice cold water. I mean, even if it's 100 degrees outside, this water is ice cold. It's very fresh off the mountain. You can actually drink the water a little bit farther upstream. You can drink the water. And he just vanished. And I went up there looking for this guy. And I went everywhere trying to find this guy.

And I even went down where his campsite was. And I was looking for areas. If he was drinking, I thought, well, there's got to be slide marks. He's got to fall into the river. There's got to be, and there was nothing. Nothing was disturbed on any of those campsites down to the river right there. And so I didn't buy into the fact that he fell into the river. I was like, it's just not that deep right there.

Even at your drunken moment, I don't see someone drowning right there. And they found him eventually downriver. And it's a tragic story. It really is a tragic story. But in that particular case, I guess he fell into the river. Maybe he walked out of the campsite, started walking down the road, and then went into a deeper part. I guess I could see something like that happening. But out there, that's not the terrain does.

maneuver, especially after you've been drinking. I just don't. It's hard enough if you're sober and you have the right equipment, let alone to be drinking and trying to find your way through the dark. But to answer your question, he ended up, they found him downriver, downstream. Anyone that listens to your show has heard you talk about the lights. You know, you always say you spent a minute talking about it and then you just blew up with emails.

And I know a lot of people love hearing about it and a lot of people don't. We actually have that here in southern Missouri in the boot hill. There's a, it's called Crybaby Bridge, I believe. And if you go there, park your car. Apparently tons of people have experienced this. You hear a baby crying in the woods, and then sometimes you'll see lights moving through the woods. So I know you've had your own personal experiences with that. Do you mind sharing one of those with us and then maybe your opinions on what you think they might be?

Yeah, I've seen the lights. two times. The first time I ever saw them was on the Browns property here in Washington State. Most people know the Browns from the Fleer that they captured, but we were out just running around the property in the middle of the night. And we came to this barn. And as we're sitting in the barn, it looked like someone with the headlamp on running towards the barn, you know, like that motion, that bobbing motion. But nothing was lighting up. You couldn't see it personally.

You could see it was a light. And I remember everyone was kind of freaking out about it. And I just looked up and I go, well, it must be one of your neighbors with a headlamp on. And I went back to doing what I was doing. And then everyone was saying, no, that's not a headlamp. That's something else. And that in that area, there's nowhere. And the other weird part is when you saw it bobbing up and down, you would have been able to hear that person running through

what we later found out was sticker bushes. And there was no noise. There was no nothing. And I remember I looked back up and the light just like faded out. It just like dropped and faded out. And then we heard nothing. And I even yelled out to it. You know, I was like, hey, who's out there?

You know, we're armed to the teeth. You know, if you're thinking of screwing with us, it's probably not a great idea. And I was trying to, because I really thought it was a person. I thought it was somewhat the headlamp. And so we get out of the barn. and we walk around the barn over to where we saw that light. It wasn't that far away.

And you had to cross over a whole thing of like sticker bushes, and you go down into this little valley, and then you'd have to climb up on a little hill, and it's all sticker bushes up there. And when I say sticker bushes, I mean like 10 feet of sticker bushes. And I was just like, that was the weirdest thing. I'd never seen anything like that before. Well, fast forward to when Woody and I were out,

I had just bought in a night vision camera, and we were up in Yakult and driving down some of the roads up there. And I was just testing out the camera, and I was just recording. And I was actually almost out of film. Or I say out of film. You know, my space was almost gone on the thing. And I had just been filming a bunch of nothing, just testing it out. And Woody had stopped. And he said, what the hell is that?

And I said, what? And we recorded the whole thing. And it was just this weird ball of light. and it was kind of hovering by the river. It wasn't real high up, but it was higher up than a person would be. And it was just this weird, the light coming off of it was so odd.

And that's a shame because in the night vision, you don't really get that. You just kind of see this weird light that we recorded. But the light it had given off was this very soft, ambient, one of the softest lights I've ever looked at. it looked at. And we sat there and we looked at it for a while. And then I said, well, why don't we drive down there and just see what it is? It's got to be someone left something on a tree, something.

I was telling Woody, I don't know. I don't know about this light thing. So we drive down there and that we couldn't find it. It was gone. And I said, well, whatever it was, it's gone. Woody said, let's go back up on the ridge line. And I'm basically out of, I have no more space on the night vision. So we go back up on the ridge line, and it's there again, except for it's closer to us. And it's moving. And we got in the rig, and we just started driving. And I say it followed us, but it wasn't like a scary follow.

It was like, hey, that light's still there. Hey, that light's still there. Hey, that light's still there. You know, we're a mile down the road. Oh, you know, that light's still, it's still there. And eventually it just went away. And we ended up in the middle of nowhere. I want to say Silver Star Mountain.

I mean, from Yakult to maybe it wasn't Silver Star, but we'd ended up literally in the middle of nowhere. I couldn't believe how far we had driven to get away from the thing. And I think the lights, there's something sinister about the lights. There's something, I want to say evil about the lights. I don't think it's a natural phenomenon that's going on with these lights. Because it seemed like it was intelligently controlled. It seemed like the more we took interest in it, it took interest in us.

and it was just a very odd strange experience, something I'll never forget. So that's something I was actually about to ask you if you thought it was just some sort of anomaly, if it was intelligently controlled. So was it hovering at about the same height off the ground at all times, or would it kind of go up in the air and come down? Like when it moved, was it fluid or was it more inquisitive? You know what I mean? Yeah, it moved.

I guess like you'd see someone with a drone. I mean, it was very methodical, and it just wasn't randomly flying around. It seemed like it was very direct in its movements. It was very soft in its movements. It's not like it was like, you know, all over the place. But it was off the ground. I mean, it wasn't on the ground. This thing was up probably from where we were at.

When we first saw it, we actually saw it from we had the high ground, and we were looking down at it. and I was recording it. And I would say at that time, it was probably, I don't know, 10 feet off the ground, just hovering. And then it eventually came back up and it kind of stepped that same height on the road. But it wasn't like out in the open. It was just kind of moving through the trees along the road. But it was very methodical.

I felt like it was being controlled by something. It did not seem very random at all. And it's funny because I sent that to Dr. Bendernoggle and I was asking him about it and it was pretty it was a long conversation we had but it kind of fascinated me his opinion on the whole thing but yeah I don't know what to make of the lights I don't get a good feeling from the lights at all I don't think it's something you know spiritual or something good I get the sense it's evil that's my own my own opinion yeah and have you ever had paranormal encounters or or because you say that a lot you know I

I feel like this has a bad feeling. And I know at least with me, I've had paranormal encounters. So whenever I contribute something being like that, it's from my own experience. So I'm curious, have you ever had lived in a house that had weird things going on or had any experiences at all? Yes. Not necessarily lived in a house, but to answer your question, yes. I don't know that I can really go into it because that person that person does. We'll move on.

Well, no, I mean that person, well, I can tell you a little bit. That person doesn't really want to talk about it. But yeah, there was a home I went into. I'll give you kind of the cliff notes. And it was odd. I walked into this home and I felt like something, it's like if someone was standing. there an inch away from your face looking at you, it was that type of feeling. And everywhere I went in this house, I had this feeling. Like, something did not want me there. Something was not happy about me

being there. And I did not feel welcome at all. And I never really said anything. And so, I'm trying to tell you the story without revealing the person. So anyway, I go back and And the person starts telling me about different things that are going on like this person would leave, get in his car, and be like, oh, I forgot my wallet, run back in, and all the covered doors are open in the house and trash is everywhere. Literally just walked out, started the car, forgot my wallet, walked back in, and this is what this person told me. And so when I showed up there, I got this really just an evil feeling. And what was weird, I can tell you about, well, one strange thing I'll tell you when I went there one time. The person who actually this happened to, it's probably one of the strangest stories I've ever heard. But I believe that person.

But I show up there and we're out in the backyard. And along the fence line is this Egyptian riding. It looked like it had been carved in there with a fancy knife or something. And I looked at the person, I was like, well, what the hell is this? And he goes, I don't know. I haven't seen that before. He goes, not on the fence anyway. And I go, what do you mean not on the fence?

He goes, it shut up in my garage too on the wall. And the same thing, carved in. And he goes, it looks like hieroglyphs like you would see in Egypt. And it was the weirdest thing. And it was very, even the way it was carved out on the fence. And then I went and looked in the garage, there's no way this person did this. No way. Unless they've been studying Egypt, you know, writings for years.

There's no way this person knew. And it was just odd. And so I guess, you know, I hate to be so brief with you on it, Dustin. But there's a lot of other things that happened. But I have experienced a paranormal. And I think same way I feel about Dog Man in the Lights. I feel like it's probably demonic. Yeah, and the paranormal stuff, it's like a drain on your soul.

Yeah, it is. I've lived in a house with it. I mean, it's totally different. The Bigfoot stuff living on a property with it, it sucks. You know, you go home every day, you want to relax, but that's when you start getting nervous and you start getting scared because you've got to drive down your driveway. but the paranormal stuff, it's like you know it's there, but you keep living your life. And until you leave that house, you don't realize how bad you felt every day.

It's a crazy thing on how that works. But, Wes, when I end the show, I want to end it with talking about your show. So is there any other encounters over the past? How many years have you had your show now? Five? Oh, man. I think we started 2013. Okay, so yeah. Over the past five years of taking encounters, and it could be anyone, maybe someone you met at a Bigfoot festival, but who impacted you the most over that period of time and has affected you in a positive way?

Yeah, that's a tough one to answer, too. There's been a lot. You know, I could say Pop Gimlin, I would say the one person that affected me the most would have to be John Bendernoggle. I just loved him. You know, I just absolutely love the guy. And it was more of, I don't really want to say grandfather, grandson. It was more of a father-son type relationship. Every time he always called me, he would always talk to me like, I was his kid, you know, and that's how he treated me. You know, very, you know, how you doing.

Always a concern for how you're doing and how are things holding up. And, you know, John really impacted me. Most people, and I mentioned this on the last show, but one of the things how John really impacted me with, I would bring him weird stuff constantly. Just weird, weird stuff. You know, three-toed tracks, lights, dog man, this rape creature people are seeing, which, you know, between you and I, that, Maybe that's a skin walker. I don't know. But just the real weird stuff.

And I said, John, am I wasting my time doing this? I mean, you're an actual real scientist, unlike most of the Bigfoot World, who pretends like they are. You're actually a real scientist. And I said, am I wrong in doing this? I said, in my heart, I feel like I'm doing the right thing. And I said, some of the stuff sounds very unbelievable. But, you know, Sasquatch sounds very unbelievable. And I said, you know, a lot of these people, it's just, there's really, I don't see a scientific answer for any of this stuff.

And he said, Wes, let me tell you something. He said, keep doing what you're doing and have those people on the show. And I made the joke. Everyone thought it was me giving the illustration about the jolly green giant. But this is exactly what John said to me. He said, Wes, if you get one person that says they saw the jelly green giant, you can pass it off, brush it off. He goes, now if you get 20 people that said they saw the jolly green giant, might want to look into it. And he said, that's my advice for you.

Same thing with Dogman. He goes, I don't know where to start with Dogman. I don't know what advice to give you on Dogman. He goes, I don't really know what that thing is. He goes, but I've listened to some of the interviews on your show. And I would send him after I had a dog man or the rake or, and I would send him to John. And every single time, he said, Wes, I believe the person. I don't know what that answer.

I don't know. But he would go even further than that. He would say, you need to have this stuff on your show, whether it be lights, dogmen, have the stuff on your show. If you're getting more than one person that's seeing this, have them on the show. And he said, that's what a true scientist does. He goes, all these guys got it wrong. They think it's a scientific method, and you know, you've got your beakers out there, and you're mixing this with this, and you're testing this and this, and you're trying to repeat this process. And he said, that's all nonsense.

He goes, that's what real scientists do when they already had the answer. By the time you start going through and you're trying to repeat the process, you already have the answer. You're only doing that for the next scientist to come along or for your work to be peer reviewed. He said, but before you get to that point, science starts with curiosity. He said, it always has. And any time a new creature is found, it always starts with an eyewitness. And so he said, keep doing what you're doing. And he said, if you are, you don't have to have to have.

answers for people. You don't have to be the answer, man. There's nothing wrong, and he used to always say this to me, and I hear myself repeating, and I was thinking of John, he would say you don't have to have the answer. It's okay to say, I don't know. But the more of those people you have on, the more you start to search for answers. But he goes, a true scientist, number one, it starts with curiosity. So have those people on. Do not be afraid to shy away from some of the stuff. He goes, It's crazy enough that people, you know, that these guys chase an 800-pound ape in the woods. And he goes, I truly, he goes, I've seen it. I truly believe it's out there. But it sounds crazy to your average person. It sounds crazy to a scientist. He goes, but we know that it's real. He goes, but, you know, this other stuff keep searching for answers and have them on your show.

Don't be afraid not. He goes, people are going to say whatever they're going to say about you. That says more about them than it does you. And he goes, just have them on the show. And so it really meant, I guess, and I'm just rambling, but John really meant a lot to me because he always gave great advice. And not the type of advice, you know, someone gives you just to hear themselves talk. He would actually give your real advice. And he just meant the world to me.

You know, and I, there's many conversations him and I had up until he died. And I'll cherish my time with him. And, you know, I just love the man. And he really taught, the other thing too, and I'll lend you go, but the other thing too with John is John always, I would watch John at conferences on how John dealt with people. And John would get flooded a lot like Bob Gimlin to where everyone's just around him. There's a line around him. The guy barely has a chance to breathe. John always treated people with a lot of respect.

And I saw a lot of crazy people go up to John. And after about 30 seconds, I'm thinking, this person's insane. John would sit and talk to him for an hour. And so he always treated people with respect. So I learned so much from just watching him, watching how he dealt with people, listening to advice he would give me, listening to how he would approach different topics with me. And I know it's not the John Benner-Noggle show, but the guy meant the world to me. He really did.

And I was embarrassed, you know, when I did remember in John Bitternoggle because I couldn't hold it. I was breaking down in tears every two seconds and I was really embarrassed about it. But I was like, it is what it is, man. You know what I mean? Sometimes you hit home run. Sometimes you don't. And the only person that meant anything to me was hopefully John was looking down and said, good job, Wes. Everyone else said, you know, it is what it is.

I think that added to it. And, you know, Wes, every single time I've talked to you, you know, we've talked several times now. There are two guys you always talk about, and that's Bob Gimlin and John. And, I mean, you can just tell that they meant a lot to you. Now, I never had the privilege to get to speak to either one of them or meet them. But I've watched, of course, a lot of videos on them and interviews and whatever. And when it comes to Bigfoot community, there are so many people out there. that are not like them.

And they give the community a bad name. But the two things that I pick up that Bob Gimlin and John both had is they always remained humble. And how, you know, we all have family members or know people that as they get older, they believe they know everything. And so they stop learning anything because they know everything. But those guys, I think they've affected. the Bigfoot community more than anyone just because of who they are and not necessarily what they contributed to the community as an evidence or whatever, but it's it's who they are. And so people like you and people like me look up to them and it's a it's big shoes to fill,

but you can tell that that's someone that meant a lot to you. And everyone mourned him in the Bigfoot community when that happened. and John seemed to be an awesome guy. Yeah, John was the best. He really was the best. And I miss him. I miss being able to call and talk to him. And, you know, the other guy I'd put into that category is Ron Morehead.

Ron is the same type of way, man. I mean, I've called Ron for advice and, you know, different things. And Ron, am I wrong? If I'm wrong, tell me I'm wrong. You know, I'll listen to what you say. And, you know, he's another one I really respect. But, you know, those guys are getting. up there in age and it's going to be there is no bigfoot community in my mind um i think that

there is no community and i always say i'm not a part of the bigfoot world because uh you know it's it's nonsense it's it's a circus yeah it's a joke it's uh you know and half these guys you always say well you know no one's going to take us seriously if we don't blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah and it's just like no one takes you seriously now so what are you worried about you know what i mean And it's like I hate to say it, but no one cares. You know what I mean? It's like, I don't know. That's a whole different show.

I can go off for two hours about the Big Fort World. It's a joke in my opinion. It is. And everybody fights over crumbs. And that's the worst part about it. But all right, Wes, let's talk a little bit about your show before we wrap things up here. Was you and Woody had that encounter that night. and obviously it's changed you,

but I don't know if I've ever necessarily got your take on how it changed you and then your opinion of how it changed Woody. I should just go grab Woody, he can tell you. No, it, how it changed me. Well, I'll start with Woody, how it changed Woody. Woody was very, how do I put this delicately? He's an asshole. And so he, you know, he used to always, he was so hard on people.

You know, when that talked about Bigfoot, he'd laugh and laugh. And he thought it was a big joke, you know, and he thought a lot of things were a big joke. And I can tell you that night changed his, it's a whole different Woody now. he'll stop and listen to people and you'll never hear him crack a joke or make fun of anyone. And, you know, I would say with me, it changed a lot, man. You know, for a moment there, I really wondered if God even existed after the encounter. I've never been more terrified in my life. I think the biggest way it changed me is I'm not super comfortable in the woods.

I'm not real happy about being in the woods. I'm constantly on high alert, and it was never like that with me before. I always loved being in the woods, and now I'm not real super comfortable. I will go out there, and I will camp. I'm not happy about it, but under protest, I'll do it, like for my son or whatever, I'll do it, but I'm generally not happy about it. And I guess my biggest fear is what bothers me, I guess, how it's changed me. I listen to people more now before I wouldn't listen to people.

Even after my encounter, I wasn't very open-minded about much, which is odd. But I've learned over time, I guess, I went from a super fear of these creatures to trying to learn as much as I can. and I'd love to say I have all the answers and I don't, but it's, I don't know, man, that's, I know I'm just rambling. It's a hard question to answer. It is. You're right. And I went to the same thing. Yeah.

Yeah. It makes you question everything about anything you know. Yeah. And, you know, like aliens and everything else. I'm like, yeah, that could be, that, those could be real. I remember, you know, it's like, well, what else is, what else is? what else did I think was a joke and all of a sudden might be real now. And I guess that's the other way, how it changes you.

You're more apt to stop and listen to someone when they're describing something weird because you've had something weird happen to you. But yeah, it's a really hard question to answer. I'm sorry I don't have a very intelligent answer for you. It's just it's changed me a lot. It's become my life now. And I don't know if that's a good thing or not. But, you know, it's sometimes you feel like you eat, you know, eat, sleep, breathe, bigfoot. And that's not healthy either.

You know what I mean? Exactly. Yeah. Wes, did you ever imagine your show would get to what it is today? No. No. And I still think of my show as being a tiny show. I remember when I had 20 people listening to the show.

And those 20 included me, Woody, and my mother. And so realistically, there's 17 people listening to the show. And I still remember that. And it's a lot of hard work. You know, I wanted to create something. I wanted to create a resource. I wanted to create something really cool for people to listen to. I wanted to create, allow people to come on and talk about their encounters.

Because everyone gets crapped on when they come forth and they talk about their encounter. Whether it be your family, your friends, someone's going to boohoo you and laugh at you. And I wanted to create something to where people could come on and freely talk about it and know I'm not going to beat them up over it. They just, after 400 episodes, 450 some odd it, people know at this point, I'm not going to come on and rip you to shreds on the air. That's not the way I do my show. It's like inviting someone to dinner and then berating them the whole time. You can't do that, in my opinion, some people do, but in my opinion, you can't do that. So you always try and treat people with respect.

The part of it about it that makes me laugh about the show, is you and I were just talking about this on my show. Now everyone does encounters. Well, when I started, no one wanted to talk to an eyewitness. They always wanted to have on, you know, the Derek Randalls, the, and there's nothing wrong with Derek Randalls, but, you know, just name and names here, the Ron Moorheads, the John Bendernoggles, the big, I guess you'd say big names or authors or whatever. And so no one really, really ever wanted to talk to an eyewitness.

and I was just the opposite. I only wanted to talk to eyewitnesses. And it took me about two and a half years, and I started figuring out real quick, none of these researchers know what they're talking about. None of them do. You know, it's, and what they call research, if that's what you call research,

and then you say, I'm not a researcher, I'll take that as a compliment, because I don't think any of them really research anything when they go out in the woods. I guess what's your definition? of research. So I really wanted to talk to the eyewitnesses, and that's the ones, and I'm glad I went that route because you get so much information from an eyewitness that a researcher can't tell you, because a researcher is just a person who had an encounter now calls himself a researcher and

runs around with a six-pack of beer and a camera in his hand in the woods and calls it research. And so, you know, that's all you're going to get from that guy. But with your eyewitness, you can really start to get information from them and learn so much more. So, again, in my long-winded answer, I apologize, Dustin. But I love it now because you hear encounter shows. And I love seeing that. And I felt like maybe I had a tiny bit of influence on that. Maybe I didn't.

Maybe I'm just delusional. But I feel like maybe I had a small play in these guys, you know, like yourself, Dustin, you do a great job. And you learn so much from my witnesses. And so, no, man. So Tony and Merkel and I were talking about this one time, you know, we get together and we just mouth off about you all the time. But we were talking one night and Tony brought this up and he's absolutely right. You know, we were talking about the Bigfoot community and different people that have affected it. And if they've affected it in the way that they thought they were or tried to because there's a lot of ego when it,

comes to Bigfoot researchers and things like that, as you know, West. But one of the things that Tony and I both agreed on was Sasquatch Chronicles, the biggest, or at least one of the biggest contributions it's made, whether you realize it or not, and I don't think you even meant to, is it, it opened up that dialogue. It allowed people to start talking about their encounters. And since that happened, I can't count on all my fingers and toes how many shows have started up with your format because it works. It's a place for people to come and share because in the real world, they can't talk about this with their family. They can't go to the authorities. They can't go to people that they trust and love because they get laughed at. It happened to me.

and it happened to everyone that's been on my show just about. So that's one thing that I think we all have to tip our hat to you for because you started the dialogue, which has changed the community because the community's grown and it's become more open. And it's not just Sasquatch. I mean, there's, in my opinion, dogman, all these shows that have started with your format was because of Sasquatch Chronicles. I'll be honest. My show, Wes, I listen to you every single day for two years. And when I started my show unintentionally, and intentionally, I, I formatted my show after years.

And it wasn't out of wanting to steal it, but it was just because that's how I listened to it being done. And that's what I liked, you know. I hated the shows that, you know, it's the same person that. goes to all these shows so you hear the same things again and again or the host interrupting them so west just from whether the other podcast is one admitted or not and i think most of them will thank you for that because i would never have a show and this is why this is such a special show to me maybe that's why i'm doing such a bad job because i'm nervous but thank you man i mean for all

of it for the people that have a place to go now because you've you've you've open this up to the world because there are so many other shows now that they may not ever hear Sasquatch Chronicles and they may hear someone else and find it there. But that was all started from Sasquatch Chronicles. So, man, I'm sorry. That was long-winded. No, that's right, man. I do think that you've made an impact on the community.

And just like Tony said, I don't think you even. even realize it or meant to do that? No, and it's hard to say, you know, that I have noticed my format being used a lot. And, you know, like I told you when you came on, it's very flattering. It's very humbling. And a lot of that came about, my whole format came about because I really didn't know how to do a show or I really didn't know how to interview someone, but I knew what I liked listening to.

And I kind of knew how I would want it to sound. And so, and you know, guys. like you come along and do it better than I do. And it's great. I mean, for me, I, you know, being a, I just like it because now I have something to listen to. I actually have shows I can go listen to now because you're right. Some of the other shows out there, it's like the host has got to chime in every two seconds or he's got to tell his encounter on every show or on and on and on. And that kind of stuff just destroys the show. And so I'm honored that you feel that way. I don't know that I really change things in a big way. But if I impacted it in a, you know, a very small way, hopefully it was

in a positive way. And I appreciate your kind words on it. Dustin, you do a great job. Tell me thank you on anything, man. You do a great job on your own. And you should be proud of what you do. Thanks, man. If I ever get to meet you, I'll be wearing a shirt that says Wes Gurm or who with my logo on the back. There you go. There you go. I'm joking, man. Wes, we'll use this one to wrap it up here.

Have you ever ran into any fans or maybe been driving down the highway and heard your intro to your show? Yes. Yes. When I had my old intro, which was a very, you'd know of the song if you heard it, well, you know it, Dustin. But you know right away the song when you hear it. And, you know, the five, four, three, two, one. And then I started the song. But one time I was in the grocery store and I was walking down the aisle. And I heard the show through this kid's headphones. As I was passing by him. And it was odd because I was like, oh, I know that song. And that's not a song he would normally listen to. It was off Tron. And then I heard the howl. You know, as you know, Dustin, you hear your intro a million times. I mean, I knew every word to that intro I'd heard it so many times.

And I knew he was listening to my show. And I stopped him. I said, what do you listen to? And he goes, oh, it's a Bigfoot show, Saskwatch Chronicles. And I go, oh, he goes, it's pretty good. You had to check it out. And I go, yeah, I'll check it out. And I just walked off.

And it made me laugh a little bit. I was like, hey, that's pretty cool, you know, and he was a young guy. I mean, he was probably 17, 18 years old listening to the show. But, yeah, no, I've met many great fans, fans of the show. A lot of kids listen to the show, which always shocks me. Yeah, I'm very proud of the show. People really enjoy it. You know, it would crush me if everyone hated the show.

It would just crush me. The fact that people hold it in such high regard. And it's funny, too, because you'll get emails. You'll have someone on the show. and then you'll get an email saying, oh, I don't believe that person. You're ruining Sasquatch Chronicles. And I'm like, I am Sasquatch Chronicles.

What do you mean I'm ruining it? But to answer your question, yeah, I have run into fans. I've run into them at gas stations. I got a big thing at Sasquatch Chronicles. Everyone knows I drive an H3, so it's not hard to figure out. And everyone's really cool. Everyone I've ever run into. It's very cool, very nice.

Well, Wes, I've enjoyed having you on tonight, man, and I can't say it enough. Thank you for everything, man. Thank you for coming on the show. Like, you never had to answer my email or talk to me. And since then, I, you know, I feel like you've become a friend. Let me bend your ear on quite a few things. And then, you know, teaching me techniques on editing, which, which, you know, you know, my listeners will appreciate.

But, Wes, thanks for coming on the show, man. Thank you for Sasquatch Chronicles. And just thank you for everything you've done for me personally. I wouldn't have my show today if it wasn't for you. And I definitely don't think I could have developed my format if I didn't have your original blueprint. But, Wes, thank you very much, man. Well, thanks, brother.

I appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me on. Hopefully I was a halfway decent guest for you. I felt like I rambled a lot, but I really appreciate you having me on, and I'll come back any time. I'm honored you to have me on. Thank you so much, Dustin. You've always got an open invitation here.

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