Sasquatch Chronicles - SC EP:495 Don't Look Behind You

Episode Date: December 3, 2018

I will be having a couple of eyewitnesses on the show tonight to share their encounters along with Timothy Renner. See everyone tonight! Timothy Renner returns to the show to discuss encounters from his new book Don't Look Behind You: Following Ghost Roads Into the Unknown. Timothy Renner's book, "Beyond the Seventh Gate", explored the history and mysteries of the infamous Toad Road – an area in York County, Pennsylvania which is home to a variety of paranormal activity. "Don't Look Behind You" expands on that volume, presenting more cases of strangeness from the area. Renner's continuing research has brought forth more stories and new witnesses describing bigfoot attacks, UFOs, venomous snakes, Mothman, orbs, buried treasure, and even a creepy Toadman lurking in the nearby creek. To these stories, Renner adds his own experiences of oddities, weird synchronicity, rare animals, unexplained lights, and other high strangeness.

Black thing go from left to right, and I thought, I'm going to die out here and no one's ever going to know. I couldn't believe what my eyeballs was showing me. I'll never forget how evil the eyes were. It was horrible. I mean, I've never seen nothing that evil. It ran towards me at a rate that I can't even explain, turned and stared at me. And this look of, I just want to kill you. I want to say it was human, but it wasn't.

He was yelling out me to grab a gun, grab a gun. I was like, for what? He said, just grab a gun. And there's footprints all the way to the door of my house. It had went inside my garage all the way to the door. 911, what are you reporting? Get somebody out here. What's going on now, sir? That son of a bitch is about six foot, nine, I don't know.

Do you see him now, sir? Yes, I'm looking right at him. Uh-oh. You're listening to Sasquatch Chronicles. Check us out online at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. If you've had an encounter, email me. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. Welcome to the show, everyone.

Thanks for being here tonight. Got a great show planned for you tonight. Going to be talking to Paul. And Paul comes to us from California. That's where his encounter took place. And he was on leave from a military base. decided to go out on an expedition with the sun, and he's been fascinated with Bigfoot for a long time, found a group of people, went out with them, and things went south pretty quick.

And then we'll be talking to Liz, who is from North Carolina, Jacksonville area, and she was on this rental property for a while. And she had just moved in, and there was just a lot of weird things that happened. The kids didn't feel comfortable in a certain room, that faced the woods. They always said someone was watching them. toys would disappear and Liz just thought it was their imagination or maybe there was a homeless guy back there until she came home one night the front door was open and she was on the deck and the saying came out in the woods and looked directly at her, started growling at her.

It changed her whole world and it's interesting because Liz is a paranormal investigator and she said this upset her more and frightened her more than any ghost encounter she's ever been on. She's got a great attitude though. And then we'll also have Timothy Rinner, who is the author of Don't Look Behind You, following Ghost Roads Into the Unknown. And I've had Tim on the show before. He's an author. He's a podcaster.

He's one of my favorites to have on the show. He always looks into things. And I'm really enjoying reading this book. Again, it's called Don't Look Behind You Following Ghost Roads into the Unknown. If you go to Amazon, just look up Timothy Riner. Last name is R-E-N-N-E-R. Again, I'm really enjoying this book. He's written a lot of other books, historical accounts with Bigfoot. He wrote Beyond the Seventh Gate. And Tim actually has a podcast called Strange Familiar's. And it's on iTunes. It's on YouTube. So it should be a great show tonight. I really appreciate you guys being here. If you've had an encounter, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. If you get a chance, check out Sasquatch Chronicles.com. You can become a member, get additional shows. I know Friday night's show with Bob was probably one of the more terrifying encounters I've ever heard.

I kind of got lost, and I'm the host of the show, I kind of got lost just listening to him and forgetting to ask questions. And it was an amazing account. And I want to thank Bob again for coming on. I know it wasn't the easiest thing in the world to come on the show. But thank you again to Bob. You know, in this day and age, there's so much negativity. There's so much, just the world we live in. And you guys see it on social media. You see it with people you interact with. And sometimes it's hard to find inspiration. And this isn't Bigfoot related, but I wanted to share it with you guys. It really touched me, and I found it very inspiring.

This is from Goldcast, and the gentleman speaking, his name is Richard Pimentel. I hope I'm saying the last name right. And just bear with me. Just listen to what he says. It's about five minutes, and hopefully you'll be inspired after you listen to his story. I was so scared. I was eight years old. I hid behind my grandmother.

back in the days of food stamps. I remember we went to the store and we were getting these groceries and grandma was taking these little coupons off and giving them to the clerk. And this man looked over and very loudly said, will you look at that? Will you look at all that good food that woman has? My family doesn't have good food like that. He says, and I'm paying for that. Old woman, how are you ever going to pay me back for all I've done for you? How are you ever going to pay society back?

to pay society back for everything that we have done for you. My grandmother pulled me out from behind her and she put her hands on my shoulders and here's what she said to him. I will never be able to pay you back. I will never be able to pay society back. But do you see this child? Someday this child will pay you back in ways that you cannot. I didn't believe her then, but she believed in me.

I learned leadership by being a good follower. The leaders in my life have asked me to do some of the most difficult things. I had a leader that asked me to risk my life. In Vietnam, we were up on this hill, and we were trapped, and we were outnumbered 20 to 1. They were coming up to kill us, and the radioed us and said, you're going to die. Because we can't get to you because of the fog. But if we blow up half the hill, you can go down that half and get away. But we need five of you to stay back and slow up the enemy so they don't flank the ones that are escaping.

The bad thing. And Sergeant Parker came to us and he said, we have to do this. I said, what? He says, it's our responsibility. I said, responsibility? He said, you know responsibility is Richard? It's a word made of two words. The word response and the word ability.

Responsibility isn't what someone puts on you. Responsibility isn't your job description. Responsibility isn't a paper you sign. We all find ourselves looking in situations, and we all find ourselves with abilities. And what we have to ask is, given my abilities, what then will be my response to those abilities? Do we have the ability to slow them up?

Do we have the ability to save these lives? We do. So what is our response? I have a leader that talked me into, never retiring and working till the day I die. We adopted four little disabled girls in December, ages nine to four. I'm 66 years old. This was not my idea for my golden years.

But they were going to split them all up if we didn't take them. We were the only ones who could take them. And I asked my wife, why do you think I should do this? And she looked at me and she said, it's our responsibility. And did we have the ability to do it? Yeah. And what was our response to that ability to do it? What abilities do you have?

And more importantly, what is your response? I have a little assignment. I want you to think about it. I want you to go out. I want you to find three people on Monday. And I want you to get three people to believe in you. On Friday, I want you to go out. And I want you to get three people to believe in themselves.

I want you to ask yourself this question. Did I feel more like the leader I want to be on Monday? Or did I feel more like the leader I want to be on Friday? Leaders do not get people to believe in them. Leaders find ways to get people to believe in. this year, believe in somebody. And my friend, how will these people pay you back for all you've done for them? I'll tell you how they will pay you back in ways that you cannot imagine.

Sometimes the greatest gift someone can give you is not a material item. Great advice. I hope you guys enjoyed that. Let's jump into it tonight. I want to welcome Paul to the show. Paul, thanks for coming on. Yeah, I really appreciate you coming on. And I know your encounter took place in California. You were on leave from the base, and you went on an expedition, and it didn't quite go as well as you thought it would.

If you would, would you could just kind of start from the beginning and walk us into what happened? Sure. I kind of posted what time my wife had got terrible news that her uncle had passed away. and she flew home with my youngest child to, my youngest two children to attend the funeral, and myself and my seven-year-old boy stayed home and got wind from through a friend of a friend that knew that I was, you know, interested in Bigfoot

and I was alone with my son that weekend, that long weekend. You know, he passed me on the number to this group that was going out that coming weekend. it was in October and I can't remember the exact date I want to say it's like the 10th but that's speculation the right of the top of my head

we um the group was very happy to have us because that time I was the company I was a captain in the army and I was companies my company's arms room officer I had access to a lot of things

um they were very interested in And you can bring up a lot of technology that we have. We had, you know, we had clear sites. We had plenty of night vision goggles, PBS 7s, BAS 14. So I basically out for the entire group in that, and that is illegal. That's why I'm not going to give my last name on the show. Yeah, and that's okay.

It was something I shouldn't have done. No harm, no foul, as far as I was concerned, but that's not something that I would recommend in this day and a day. But it was cool, you know, when I met up with the group, they were what you would have referred to as food players three or four years ago. That's the type of group they were. I didn't have anything against them. I just don't, you know, I'm more of a flesh and blood animal kind of guy myself. That's what I've always thought and believed.

And they were not happy at all to see that I brought a couple firearms with me. And my feeling is that anytime, you know, you're walking into a potential threat area for wildlife, because of mountain lions, potential for black bear, and the potential to basically stumble across, you know, some pot growers plantation. That's what's 2010. So, you know, there's a chance that's something like that happening as well. So, you know, they were adamant that I was not allowed to take the firearms with me. And I was, you know, I could see my son.

He really wanted to go. So when I was putting my father, they didn't know what they were looking for, but I was wearing a heavy coat. It was just fine in 1911. Thank God for that. We, we hiked. It was up near the Klamath River is where we were.

The group consisted of 10 people, including myself, my son. the lead guy was very very spiritual he was he believed it was a thing that could you know travel and came with UFOs and I don't know what it is so I'm not knocking it that's that far from my point of view so a lot of stuff he was talking to me that first night you know he just kind of went in one ear and out the other

we put up camera like everywhere where we had hiked in at was a we came to a ravine and it was about two and a half miles off the road

where we left our vehicles um we hiked in there first night you know everybody set up a lot of people were hearing tree knocks

I don't put a whole lot of stuff in tree knocks myself I think maybe there um but I I think I don't think we're doing a whole lot of good by beating on trees in the woods

uh with this animal I don't think it means what we think it means and we listened, and, you know, I kept an open mind with everything. The second in command of the group, not just to take command, but that's the army and me coming out. But the second in charge of the group was a lady named Wendy. It's not her real name, she was called her Wendy. But she was also spiritual, but more from, like, a Native American way.

And I agree with a lot more of what she was. saying, we hit it off pretty well. She took her liking to my son, and we kind of became a group that were like-minded individuals, along with one other gentleman that was with us. So the first night went by, and to me it was a little bit on an eventful. My son had a really good time. He thought it was great. He thought it was cool.

And, you know, he was proud of me. He was really professionally to stay quiet when he was supposed to and didn't talk. So he did a good job. I was happy with that. I thought that was pretty neat. And so the next morning, you know, around 10 a.m., we got a late start because we up so late. But we decided we were going to go check all our camera tracks. So we're going out with myself, Wendy.

The other gentleman went out with us initially, but split off to go check us. a different trap. So myself, Wendy, and my son went to check on the trap that was like the next, almost, it wasn't the first trap out, but it was kind of out there.

It was about a mile and a half away from where, I guess it was right around a mile away from where we had set up our base camp. As we're walking out there, we got about, you know, I would say about 500 meters from where the trap was set up.

And my son, who was being really good, you know, he was doing a typical kid saying he was staying, you know, 40 yards in front of me. You know, he's excited. He was staying quiet, but he was very excited. It kind of made me a little nervous, but, you know, I didn't want to, you know, Danf has a good time. So, you know, as long as I kept good eye, you know, good distance, you know, if I could see him, was I see him good. All of a sudden he took off of the trail, and I started running after him and at a jog,

and all of a sudden, he took just, it was a huge thicket, uh, briars and everything, and then there were trees that were growing out of it as well, some large, uh, hardwood trees that were growing out as well. And, uh, when you looked at it and he just stopped and he kind of, he cramped up like he was having, I don't know, I've seen, he was the right word, because it wasn't, like it was convulsing or anything like that. It was just like they froze up. And then, um, did, we're about the same age west.

So you remember the little toys we had as a kid? It was like a, it was like a dummy that stood up. And when you pressed down on it, it was, it was like, uh, it was like on strings that gave attention. And when he pressed down on it would just like collapse on itself. Yeah, of course. You remember that toy? Yeah.

That's what it looked like he did. He just crumpled. It was like a, you know, drop right down. So, of course, I'm afraid of that. out. I'm running up there. I thought my kids having some sort of epileptic seizure. You don't have any history of that. So I'm running up to him.

And as a father, I had already lost my second son, who was born in the right pre-recourt. So, very protective over my boy. So when I caught up to him, I was very, very, very upset. Of course, as any parent would be, my son, his eyes were he wasn't there. His eyes was just kind of glassed over.

First thing I did, I checked. He had a pulse. I noticed they'd wet himself. And then all of a sudden, I started feeling like nauseous, sick my stomach, which was odd because I, you know, I know it's my own son,

but I've been in some very traumatic combat experiences and never once felt anything like that. No nauseousness. not granted maybe it was different because it was my son but I also started losing like the ability to focus and concentrate you know I wasn't sure it was what I was like well what do I do what's going on here

and I started hearing this sound and it was I was feeling it more than I was hearing it and the close thing I could compare it to it's an instrument played by the Australian Aborigines it's called a didgeridoo. It makes a very, very weird, distinct sound. It's, you know, the sound of a billabong, I guess, is the best way I can describe it.

It's just that it's real guttural and it's like bouncy like that. It's definitely, you know, vibrational. You can really feel the vibrations. But I noticed that those vibrations were, that's what I thought was making me sick. So I wasn't for what was going on with me and I'm doing everything I could. to get my son up, and as I'm doing that, I noticed that there's something about 15 yards in front of us in the trees.

And I don't see the whole thing. I see what I'm believing to be shoulders and the head of a very, very large person, very large person. And it took me a minute to focus. It literally took me a minute to focus. and when it started coming in your focus, the realization that was so hard to see for me is that it was completely black. Now, it was 10 o'clock in the morning,

you know, it was probably around 11 o'clock in the morning, and the sunlight was coming through the trees, and I could see little tingeers of, you know, red or brown on the exterior of the hide, of the hair. But the way the sun was coming out, And from behind it, it made the creature look completely black. And his skin was completely black.

It had hair up to its cheekbones, but no mustache. You know, its upper lip was, I did notice his upper lip was, was hairless or very light-haired because it showed its teeth to us. about that time Wendy came up and her reaction was absolute and total pan totally

hysterical I mean she was like grabbing on me and grabbing on my son and oh my God what is that what is that? And it was total a therapist and it was from after I talked to a lot of people back after the incident

that that was absolutely not her character at all to be that way either. So she was also feeling some sort of effect from what I believe is, what I've heard about recently is the Infrasound. I've been exposed to Infrasound when I was in the United States Army. I was stationed at Fort Irwin, and when we did, we had units come in there and kept them.

And it had all different kind of effects from burning to feeling like you can't concentrate, can't stand still, like you're crawling out of your skin to the point where you become completely paranoid or hysterical. It's just what I could tell is there was not enough that has been known in studies, or at least they haven't published enough to know exactly what the effects are and whether or not, you know, it's something that us is the government can control. But I really felt like this animal that I was looking, you know, staring at kind of facing, you know, facing at time had pretty control over it because it had basically incapacitated three people. And I've been in some bad situations and I've never ever felt like, oh my gosh, what do I do? What do I do?

And that's when I remembered it dawned on me that I did have a weapon. and it took like every ounce of concentration and focus I had to pull that weapon out and fire it. I didn't fire the animal. I just wanted to get around off. I fired it in the air, which is very odd for me. I'm normally, you know, if I'm going to squeeze a trigger, I'm generally going to... Right, you're going to shoot something. Yeah.

You know, I'm going to see what I'm shooting at. And then I was having a lot of trouble focusing on this animal. the next once I fired that first shot I woke up I started coming too but it wasn't like I was

okay it was like you know shaking off cobwebs kind of thing and I tried to steady myself and I fired

the second shot and it went of the animal shoulder um I go through the foliage behind it so I knew that it

went over the animal shoulder and I hit it that time the animal screamed at me and uh

it got very angry, and it started moving forward. And I was just barely lucky enough. I didn't think that I had enough gun to take this thing down unless I put one through its eye. And I didn't feel comfortable enough with my aim with what was going on to try to take a shot like that. And I felt like if I hit it in the abdominal area, I wasn't going to push through any of the muscle. the wall completely to do any kind of damage to it. So I got the last shot I fired, went into the knee. I got him in a knee, and he led out a different type of yell.

And at that time, I heard that yell answered by something else, which I couldn't tell you how far away it was, but I knew that it was answered in a, in a, in a, in a, in almost the same tone. It, like, went off our couple steps, and then the next thing I know, it looked like it was filled completely, and it was gone. Just at that time,

the one gentleman that was split off with us, he had started making his way back over us, and he ran up in about a minute later when I was getting my son and went in and we were gathering, he was up and trying to get moving. And it was terrifying. It was because I knew there was another one out there.

I only had so many bullets and the weapon that I had. I had a child, but I didn't know what was wrong with him. I didn't know if he was in some type of,

you know, shocked he could potentially kill him. A partner, I'd have mine who was just completely and totally she was just a mess, and I did everything

I could keep her from running off in the wrong direction. Luckily, we caught up to the other gentleman and he settled Wendy Day, We

high-tailed it back to our base camp I ditched everything I had and took my son I said I'm leaving now I'm not packing any of this up because we still heard them talking we still heard the things making noise off behind us

and I said look I'm leaving his tent all I'm taking is my pack and my boy and we're making it back to the vehicle and I'm taking my son in the hospital well the first thing the guy does

the one guy actually he starts giving me a hard time about having a gun and I just basically I was just like laughed at him

you know it was like it really is this the time and it's funny because you know he was probably

the closest one to me as we were getting the hell out of there and it was just pretty you know as terrifying

for me at times as Iraq was being a paratrooper and walking on the streets every night and having worry about getting blown up. I think the fact that I had my son with me this time in a completely and totally foreign situation to me

just really, really frightened me. And it threw me way off. To the point when my first thought when we got back to the vehicle, I didn't say this, but the first thought I had when I got back to the vehicle was I was trying to assess my son because if I thought my son was going to be okay, and I was trying to go back out there with the shotgun

and try to kill the damn things. I was so angry because I really felt that my son was meant to be lunch. And I'm not like that. I don't generally... Yeah, I don't... I don't blame you. I don't blame you. I think that, you know, if it would have been my son, I would have felt the same way.

I don't mean to cut you off, but I'm curious. I'm almost curious if what you heard was a growl. Is this kind of how you interpreted what you heard, take that? listen to this. That's definitely, that's definitely the didger do. It has a very, very low range that's not coming through right there that you only hear, you only, I don't think it can come through on a recording. It's something that you feel in a vibration when you're there, but that's definitely what, along the lines of what I was feeling and hearing when I got up to my son in the state that he was in.

And the crazy thing about it is my son, he doesn't even remember, I don't know if it's a shop that he's just put it out of the system. He doesn't even remember the whole weekend. You know, we were supposed to be up there for five days. We were there for two, and he didn't remember any of it. Thank God for that because he probably has some of a nightmare. Yeah, no, I understand what you're saying. I'm just curious, you know, how you interpreted the growl. I realize it's not going to come through that way.

But it makes me wonder if it was grouye. You know, tigers growl and they give off infrasound. Tigers can give off an infrasound with their lungs. And I almost wonder if, and I realize you were feeling it more than you were hearing it. But instead of a didgeridoo, I almost wonder if you were experiencing it growling and you were just kind of interpreting it that way. What did the hospital say about your son? I took him to. I told him that he encountered an animal.

Luckily, thank God, I had. one of the people that was with us went to the hospital with me directly to verify what I was saying. We didn't say we saw Bigfoot. We said we thought that he encountered a bear. You know, I know it's terrible to lie. You know, when he's talking like a kid, but I didn't know what the hell was going to happen if, you know, I bring my kid in there and say, hey, I'm wrong. him and it was couldn't saw Bigfoot.

Yeah, I got top-toucher services at my door, so, you know, I said he encountered a bear, and what they said, they just said, and he it was just a, you know, a fright response that he had, and he, he was fine.

He didn't go into a coma or anything. He started coming too pretty quick after we started driving to the hospital. But he just wasn't talking about it. You know, it wasn't talking about it. He was one-word answers.

And, you know, like, like, there was, they had been, you know, traumatized. It was, it was awful. It was awful. And, you know, I don't, I don't, I don't want to need a will toward the animals. I think, I think a whole lot more people that are unaccounted for,

or unaccounted for because they've come into contact with some of these animals. I'm not a professional. I'm not one of these guys I was on a government kill theme. I went out and killed out and killed. I don't know anything about it. I never heard anything about it firsthand other than what I experienced.

But it was an awful, awful experience for any child or any adult to have to go through because the animal I saw and I don't like to attribute you know, negative effects on animals based on their appearance. I mean, because it's one of the ugliest animals in the world,

but they're not going to hurt you. This thing was just evil-looking to me. Eyes were completely black. I never saw any, I think it's called Scolera. I never saw any white for this thing's eyes. Now, a lot of that may have played into because the sun was shining from behind it, and I didn't give a good of a look.

but it's just it was just nasty looking to me I didn't see I didn't see a whole lot of urine characteristics did have a hooded the hooded nose

not not like a hugely hooded nose like the I guess like the dwarves or anything like that from the Lord of the Rings nothing like that but you know the smaller than ours in that, like, you know, like a baxter that had been hit

too many times in the nose. It's kind of weird look on its face, though. Just, just nasty looking, just really intelligent, but nasty intelligence. So it was, it was, it was terrifying. And he said it didn't look more, it didn't look human, it looked, did it look more animals to you? To me, it was more animal. I didn't feel I felt like there was intelligence

but I didn't feel like there was culture type of intelligence I didn't feel like this was any type of lost tribe or any Native American offsuit or any relic human I didn't feel like that at all

I felt like this was an intelligent animal at that it was an animal the animal that I saw it wasn't anything ridiculous you know when I said ridiculous. I'm not, I'm not saying that it wasn't this outlandish-sized creature that, you know,

10 and 12 feet tall. What I saw, I believe, to be 7 and a half, maybe 8 feet tall. It was broad, but not not, it didn't have a gorilla belly. Definitely not had to have a descended gorilla belly. It was, um,

I guess, I would guess this is animal ways. to five to six hundred pounds. But I'm not a I'm not a professional. It comes to that by any means. But that's just what it looked like.

I just remembered that its shoulders were just massive. It looked like it had like watermelons sitting on his shoulders. And I just was thinking I'm not going to punch through any kind of muscle

anywhere on an animal when I was trying to figure out. how to deal with it. So I was lucky. You know, we were very lucky. I don't know what would happen. I don't know if it was a bluff charge, but I wasn't taking the chance to,

I did what I thought was right. We didn't get ourselves any trouble, thank goodness, and no one was seriously injured. I think some of the people who were flu players are no longer foot players that were with us that day and they made feel a little bit different about the firearms

when you know protecting yourself whenever you got the woods from any type of animal not just this one. Yeah, it's interesting how the creature reacted too, especially when you fired on Friday night's show, I was talking to

Bob and his friend had pulled out a 357. It was a BB gun. It was a fake gun. He had the same rules. It sounds like these people had. And he pulled it out the minute he pulled it out, the whole atmosphere changed. They were pissed. They were absolutely pissed.

I'm curious, though, did everyone all stay there the rest of the night, or did everyone pack up and pretty much leave after that? No, everybody didn't really go into it enough. They were making a lot of noise. I believe it was, I know it was two of them, living out of the area. Now, a couple of people went back and got their gear two days later. I didn't. I'm an infantryman in the weather's night. We only had sleeping bags. That's all that was on the ground.

So I was able to throw that in back my truck when I left. I picked that stuff up and just carried that out with me. Yeah, and I know you had mentioned, too, they went back and actually collected the blood, and it was they couldn't get any DNA off of it or anything. It was, there is weird things that go on with these creatures. There is weird. You can call it woo. You can call it paranormal.

some cases that does go on. The part that throws me off is that you know, people shoot them. You know, absolutely shoot these things and there's blood and there's hair and there's so it's a weird, the whole subject is odd. You know what I mean? It doesn't make any sense at all

to me. I it's too easy. Look, I know this animal is incredibly elusive, but something's going on. Government, I don't know why. But the government knows

it's there. They don't want to address it. It's just, you know, like the elephant in the room. You know, nobody wants to bring up. It doesn't make any sense to me. But I guess somebody higher than my pay grade has made the determination. We're going to just ignore this. This is happening.

I'm happening to too many people that are credible. I know there's been some very credible people who have encountered. these animals. Yeah, I would agree. I would agree. And I've seen way too many things that I feel like need more attention from

mainstream science and mainstream media. I know people are always talking about, well, M.K. Davis, doctors' videos. In his doctors' videos, he does play with contrast, which,

hey, our own government does that when it's showing his pictures on the movies. moon or whatever it is. I'm not saying whatever they're trying to cover up as an alien base, but, you know, he's just trying to determine certain things by changing contrast, and it gives you a different perspective, you know, and there's a lot of things that I don't understand why this is a such a taboo topic, and that's why I really give a lot of credit to people

like, you know, Dr. Grover-Crantz and Jeff Neldrum. I mean, they really put, yeah, there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of, you some celebrity they've gotten out of it, but I don't think it, uh, weren't the, um, uh, you know, the, the, the, the vitriol that they get hit with from a lot of their colleagues. Yeah, I would agree. I would agree. You know, and it's too bad that it's like that. I have heard weird, I've heard weird encounters, kind of like your son, um, but different, in different ways to where it makes you wonder, is it infrasound? Is it something else? I remember in the early shows, I had a guy on who was a, um,

He was a mountain biker and a professional bike rider, and they were in an area, and I think they were hiking or something. No, I know which one you're talking about. He was talking about how fast he was down through, and there was nobody that could ever pass him going down to downhill and stuff. I know what you guys are talking about, yeah. Yeah, and he started hearing – he never heard the growl coming from the brush. He never heard it. He started walking to it like he was in a trance and started taking off his clothes because he was getting hot. and he started taking off all his clothes,

while his friends grabbed him, because they all heard the growl and pulled him back. So it makes you wonder, is it infrasound or is there something else going on there? Because that's really, I know Infrasound causes you to do weird things. You know, and kill a person if you turn up the infrasound. Yep. And like I said, my son did something kind of like that right before, you know, he took off and ran like a bad out of hell toward that thicket,

and then he froze up. So maybe that was the final response we saw played out. Luckily, that one, the mountain bike group got, you know, they stopped that guy from, I don't know if it was a bear or whatever it was, but I think maybe we saw the way it was supposed to go down completely. Now, I didn't hear, I don't know if it was, I think I heard it on one of your shows, but somebody was talking about where they said they watched one of these animals,

basically paralyzed the baby deer and some noise startled the baby deer and luckily it took off but he said the deer was having what looked like some type of muscle spasms or something along his lines so I don't know what it is

but it's definitely creepy you know it's um I've always I've always been fascinated by a subject I've always I've always when I was a kid I

everybody told me the Patterson Gimlin film was fake so you know I believe it was fake and then the more I watched it and I got older the more I realized

that really looks pretty good if it's fake and then the more research I've done a lot not research but the more things I've seen about it you know to me that's

some compelling evidence Yeah, it is compelling evidence. Or do you still do expeditions or are you out of the Bigfoot business? Do you retire from that? I'm pretty much, I would like to do it. I'd like to back into doing it, but I've had a number of surgeries over the last five years. It's kind of what ended my military career. And I'm kind of just now getting myself to where I can do some kind of hiking.

I can't run anymore whatsoever. I basically had my left knee's been reconstructed four times and my right foot's been reconstructed four times. And it's slowly but surely what I've learned is that I was never a very big, big guy. I'm only 5'6, but I was like 210 pounds. What I've done is I've got my body weight down to about 180 and it feels a lot better.

I hate sex. I'm not in gym anymore, but it's really, so. I may be able to get back out there. And it's something that I would really like to do because I know my son, who did have the experience, and my daughter, who is nine, both want to go. Like my son, even though he had that, remember, he wants to go back out, and my daughter wants to go out. So it's something I would like to do, and I'm hoping that we could do over.

We'll start eventually. But I have to go slow at it. I have to find a more what I believe to be a reliable group. I felt like with everything that was going on with my son, I felt like there were only two people that were trying to help me at all with my son. And I wasn't very happy with it. They exist anymore, but they were... And I don't blame me in saying that, Paul.

I think, honestly, I get nervous when people say don't bring out guns and no cameras. and that makes me nervous because, and I'm not seeing you got to carry around an AR-15 or, you know, but I mean, like what you did, where it was a hidden gun, I think that's smart. Like you said, you can come across, you come up here in Washington, man, there's cougars the size of me,

and I'm a pretty big guy. And one of those comes after you, you're going to lose that fight or a black bearer or anything else, you know? So it's a terrifying encounter. It really is, especially since your son was involved. Thank God there was no damage to him, or, you know, that you're able to get them out of there. I think you did the right thing.

Honestly, I think you did the right thing. Well, I don't know if, I know I can't, I know I can't words and my account can't possibly do it justice, how frightened and how terrifying this event was. It was just, I mean, felt completely overwhelmed. I mean, you knew you were dealing with something that you didn't stand a snowballs chance in hell. You know, it was, I was going to have to get really lucky. Like I said, hopefully, you know, I hope the creature healed up. I hope the animal's okay and lived, you know, because I don't want to see the species go extinct. But, you know, I wouldn't hesitate to blow one away.

It never cornered me again, I'll tell you that. No, and I don't blame me. I wouldn't hesitate either. I honestly wouldn't hesitate either. I think he did the right thing. And I really appreciate it coming on and sharing it, Paul. It was a great encounter. I mean, it wasn't great for you.

It was fascinating for me to listen to it. Well, it was therapeutic for me because, you know, the only other person that I've talked about with it is my wife doesn't even know about it because she was away. My son doesn't know about it because you don't remember. And the only person I've really talked to about is my therapist. And I didn't talk to anybody about it while I was in the Army because I figured they put me right out. But, you know, it's one of those things where I've, it's tough to deal with at times.

You know, if you don't go crazy and get into it somebody and say, oh, yeah, well, this happened to me because they'll look at you like you're insane. You know, so I try to, you know, I try to deal with it as best I can and just figured, you know, it's no different than, you know, running into, you know, you know, grizzly bear or something like that. They're lucky and made it out okay. Didn't wind up like Leonardo Caprio in the revenue. Exactly. Well, thank you again, Paul. Absolutely, Wes, and I appreciate your show,

and I love listening to it every week. My wife and I are hooked, and it's great, and it's great what you do. And we'll get to Liz here in a moment from North Carolina. She's going to be sharing her encounter. I want to tell you guys about Robin Hood. Robin Hood was kind enough to invest, in Sasquatch Chronicles. And it's a really cool app.

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I enjoy it. It's like I said, it's really simple. It's easy to use. For me, I know when I was thinking about investing in stocks, probably five, ten years ago, I didn't do it because I was intimidated by it, didn't really know what I was doing. There's a bunch of lingo you have to learn. And the Robin Hood makes it all of it. very simple, very easy to use.

So if you get a chance again, check it out. Sasquatch.robinhood.com. Thank you again to Robin Hood. Well, next up, I want to welcome Liz to the show. Liz, thanks for coming on. Thank you. Yeah, I really appreciate you being here. And I know your encounter took place in Jacksonville, North Carolina.

And it was a rental property, which you and I were, well, we can go into that later, but you and I were kind of talking about that. If you would, would you just kind of start from the beginning and tell us, us about the property and then walk us into what you what you encountered um it happened in january of last year i had moved in the january before that about january february time frame right at the end of it in 2016 and um i had just noticed weird stuff had been happening because the way that my property sat we were in the back far end of like a mobile home park and i had mostly like abandoned rantel trailers around me like that they couldn't fix or whatever. So they didn't really have anybody in

those. And so I was kind of just in the back, no neighbors really. And so the way that the trailer sat, it was a single wide mobile home. And the backside of the trailer for the one bedroom and bathroom, it was really close to the tree line. And it was like maybe about 10 foot away from the tree line the window was. And then it went, the living room. which is where the front deck would come off on the right-hand side. And then it went kitchen, hallway, and then the back door for the back deck, which was smaller than the front. We barely used it because the steps were hard to get up and down on that.

Further away from the tree line was the back deck. And then the rest of the room on the other side of the trailer, which was off over by my driveway. Well, like I said, we were having weird stuff happen on and off. You know, they're like, my kids' stuff would go missing out from my... any support, and I didn't really think much of it. I just thought maybe the kids misplaced it, because it always felt weird with the woods right there.

I don't normally have a problem with the woods and either do my kids, but some reason my kids wouldn't stay in the back bedroom because my son was originally supposed to have that room, and he kept saying something was stare at him through the woods through the window. And I was like, okay, so I switched him out with my daughters, switched them into that room, and they said the same thing. Something was staring at them through the woods in that window, and I was like, okay.

So I switched them all to the same room to sleep. It put that to the playroom, and they wouldn't even play in there. Like, they would complain about it and bring their toys into the living room. They got to the point where I was getting frustrated with it, and I felt weirded out every time I went there, too. Everybody, my friends, everything, my fiancé, was like, it felt like somebody was staring at you when you're in that room. So I put aluminum foil up on that window.

try to get it to kind of go away and stop. But so, just like I said, weird stuff kept happening. Like I said, I didn't think much of it or anything. Well, me and my fiance and my friend, we go around and we were doing paranormal investigations. And we were at a cemetery that night. And one of our batteries had died. So we had come back to the trailer. It was about 1 o'clock in the morning to get another battery because we were doing EVP session.

And we noticed that my front door and my screening door were wide open. and my kids were being babysat. They weren't home, and we had locked the door and shut it whenever we had left. Well, it was wide open, the screen door was wide open. My fiancé told us to stay there. He's going to check. We went in the house to check to the front door,

and we waited for a good, about three, four minutes, and then he opened up my bathroom door at the end where the driveway was and said there was nobody inside, and it didn't look like anything was messed up or disturbed anything. So me and her get out, and he said he forgot his phone in the car. So he came out the back door as we were going into the front door. Well, the way that the front porch was, we had three steps that were small,

and then it had the deck, and it was about three foot off the ground. So me and her were walking and just talking, and he was coming out the back door to go in and get his phone from the vehicle. I got about second step up, and we kept hearing rustling and stuff it was, but we heard stuff all the time. So I just kind of stopped and looked because I heard like two thumps. And then it sounded like something was walking, and I was like, well, maybe it's a deer. So I went and just walked again up to the third step, and then it sounded like, again, something walking, but it sounded two-legged. So I was like kind of getting hesitant, so I kind of just went faster to get up onto the deck.

that's when it came out of the woods and it literally just stepped right out of the woods and it was huge my friend and me literally was just staring and I'm in awe I didn't know what to do I didn't know what to think it was really I thought bear at first but then

you know because reality's trying to set in you know like it's a bear or something but yeah bears don't walk on two legs and we don't have a lot of bear down here nor big bear and I'm 5 foot 4, my deck's about 3 foot off the ground. So, and I'm standing on my deck, and it's eye level with me, and it's looking right at me. And I started staring at it because I didn't, I wanted to see, like, exactly, like, details, like, what is it? So one thing I really noticed, though, is, like, I noticed, had black hair all over it, about maybe 3, 4 inches long.

wasn't really long hair. It didn't have any hair on its feet, though, and it didn't have any hair on its... It had hair on, like, the top of its hands, but not, like, its fingers. I did notice that. That kind of threw me off, because I was kind of staring at its hands for a minute.

And it wasn't until I actually, like, looked up at, like, towards its face, like, its eyes. And it looked at me, and it just, like... You know how, like, when a dog, when you try to take their bone, if they're aggressive, like they give you that growl, like back off. That's the kind of growl it gave me, but you could actually, like, we, she said she could feel and I could felt it too.

It was like, you could feel it like rumble, the deck that we were on. It was really, really low, and I was like, oh, my God, so I bolted in the door because the door was still open. As she was trying to bolt back into the door, I slammed her leg in the door, and she was actually stuck with her leg. inside and the rest of her outside. I was holding the door closed. She was screaming. I was screaming and holding her leg in the door. And my fiance ran back to the back door because he heard us screaming in the commotion. And he was like, what the heck, Liz? What are you doing? And so I was

like, there's something out there. And then I like, she was like, let me in. So I slung open the door. She jumped in real quick and I slammed back the door again. I locked it in. And my fiance They's like, what, what's out there? And I said, I don't know, it's huge. It's like eight, eight foot tall. And it's black. I said, I swear, it looked, and it should be a bear. I was like as big as it is, but it's not.

It looked like a human. And he was like, what are you talking about? So he went and he slung up with the front door. And I'm like, please don't, please don't, you know. And she's freaking out. And so me and her, like, hiding off in the kitchen. And he's like, there's nothing out here. And we were like, yes, there is.

And he was like, no. And then he walked around the tree. trailer. He said there was nothing and nobody out there. He didn't hear anything. He didn't see anything. So I'm not even sure where it went. But I know where it came from. And we never used that a front deck ever again after that during the night. I was like, nope, I ain't going out there at nighttime. Yeah, I don't blame you. And it's even, it's, it's amusing to me that you chase ghosts and this saying terrified you. I mean, amusing may not be the right word, but you know what I mean. I don't. I doubt you get shook up too much in paranormal encounters, especially if you're going out there doing EVP sessions, because I'm just the opposite. I think EVPs are, and I've heard some crazy ones, I think they're terrifying to listen to. And I think some of the things, when you get into some hauntings and other things, are way more terrifying than Sasquatch. But I understand what you're

saying. I mean, the immense size of this thing, looking at you, was there any details that you remember from the face? I know you had mentioned when we're on the phone, it showed its teeth to you. Yeah, um, it's teeth actually, their teeth, from what I saw, it looked very similar to ours, only larger, especially the canines. Those were a lot larger than ours. That is one thing that I noticed. And shockingly enough, they actually have nice, nice teeth. Like, you would think with them being out in the forest that there would be, like, their teeth would be messed up, but they're not. They're actually really nice teeth. And that shocked me. Um, the nose looks very similar to ours only. It's kind of like, it doesn't stick out as far as ours.

It's more flat than our noses. And the eyes were like dark, brown, maybe black. They did have white around it. Like, you kind of did they had white in their eyes, but it wasn't like predominantly like our white in our eyes. I did notice that too. But as soon as I made eye contact, it literally made itself known that it did not want me to make eye contact with it.

And it was boss, and I, I'm not going to disagree with it. Yeah, I don't blame you. I don't blame you. Did it look more human-like, or do you think it looked more like a non-human primate, like an ape or a monkey, or how would you describe its look? It's a picture. It's mixed between both, honestly, because, I mean, it looked human in the face,

especially with, you know, the eyes when it was looking at me. It gave me this evil look like a human would if you were mad at somebody. Like, if you were sit there and, like, bullied a mother's kids, like, that evil glare that you would get, that's the kind of evil glare I got from it. And that felt like a human glare, like, I'm going to mess you up. And so I feel like it had human characteristics, but also felt it had primate characteristics because we don't have that much hair on us, obviously. So it's kind of like a mixture of both, but I felt more human come out of it than I did an animal, to be honest. Yeah, it's interesting too.

Did you, and I know there was a previous renter to the property, and you and I kind of talked about this a little bit, but I'm kind of curious. Do you think it actually entered the home? Do you think that's what actually had the door open, and I know it's speculating? It's a good possibility. It could have opened the door. I'm not sure, because like I said, we weren't home, and the only thing I can't understand, like, how did the door get unlocked? Well, how did they do that? but I mean, it disappeared that quickly, you know, from me shutting and locking the door to him opening it was in seconds and it being gone.

So, I don't know, like, I mean, it seems pretty fast in doing weird things. So, I mean, it's a good possibility. It could have entered, and I had it. I didn't see anything missing. I didn't notice anything really out of the way of not normal in there. but I do know that the previous friender had been there for 15 years, and on the back side of the trailer, there was like a little tiny path,

and it had come to a circle in the woods, and it was about two foot into the woods, and I noticed that there was like a lot of plastic dog crates and coops back there and chains and stuff, and I had asked my landlord, you know, what's up with the dog coops that thought, you know, we weren't a lot of pets because we weren't a lot of cats or dogs there, and he said,

the last tenant there was raising pit bulls, but his pit bulls kept disappearing, so he just stopped, stopped raising them. And I was like, hmm, that's interesting and weird. I've never heard of a pit bull going, you know, just pit bulls just disappearing. But I really didn't think anything of it whenever he said it to me,

and I was like, oh, okay. But there was always weird stuff happening, and would you go hear weird stuff in there? And it looked like at one point, like, If you wanted to get rid of something, all you had to do is put it in the woods, because it literally, like, two, three foot in, where you can still see it, you could put it in there, neck bang, it'd be gone. Like, literally, I put a fire pit in there, try to hide it from my other neighbors.

They were up the road because they were going around collecting metal, and I didn't want them to grab that, and I had put it, like, two, three foot into the woods, and that's how I figured out the stuff was disappearing out of there, and it was boom, gone, and then I was like, okay, so I put some of my kids old plastic toys in there, and they disappeared, and I was like, okay, so what keeps coming in here and taking it, and you would find, like, random stuff just in the woods, just in random spots, too, and there's a couple of times. There were some three branches that were above our trailer, but they're almost level with the roof,

but about the same height, and one pine tree branch, we hadn't had stormed like two or three weeks, and my kids always used to love trying to hit it with a ball and knock the pine cones off. Well, we went out there to one day, and they were getting ready to do that, and they were like, there's something wrong with the pine tree branch, so I came around the corner,

and it was, like, twisted and mangled and hanging down, and I was like, how did that happen? Like, how did that even happen? And I was kind of freaked out by it, and then me and my fiancee ripped it off, and we threw it in the woods, and it just didn't make sense to me, but, I mean, thinking back,

there's probably quite a few things that are happening. I just didn't really think about it, you know, like it didn't cross my mind. Yeah, I often wonder in situations like this if the previous renter was feeding them or, because I've heard of situations like this where like a new renter moves in. And generally when they come back around to that area, they'll go back to the place to the person who was feeding them. And he might have been pissed that you guys weren't feeding him. That's why everyone felt like they were being watched.

especially in that one room. And when you were getting into the home, he stepped out. You know, as you're walking up the deck, he steps out on you. And it makes me wonder if the last guy was actually feeding these things or feeding that thing. Yeah, I mean, it's a good possibility. They could have been. I know a couple of times I, because I like, sometimes I make like whole chicken for dinner and stuff. And I didn't want to doubt in my trash because some always dug in my trash over there.

And it didn't matter if I had the trash can Lids with the closing lock It didn't matter if I'd bungee corded them at one point And they were still getting opened and dug through So I started done like the chicken carcasses In the woods over there To kind of get rid of them So they wouldn't like maybe the trash wouldn't get dug through

And they'd be gone the next day And the trash wouldn't be dug through that night But then the next time after that trash be dug through And I'd be like I thought it was cats But knowing the neighborhood was allowed to have dogs dogs or cats. So that, I was like, maybe it's raccoon, maybe it's possum, but how they were getting the bungee cord off was blowing my mind because I literally had bungee cords on each of my garbage

cans. I'm curious, too, did you ever hear any vocalizations out there on that property? I heard a couple of, like, hauling at one point. It sounded kind of like a haul screed type thing, but I really wasn't sure what to make it out because I don't go, I don't like go into woods all the time. But I do know what certain animals sound like. I've never hunted or anything like that. So I don't know. It kind of sounded like a bigger cat, kind of.

But I don't think we have any big cat down here. I know that we have Fox. And I know that we have, I have seen a bobcat down here once. But they relocated that because I saw that one, one of them made roads. And the cops actually, in Animal Control, we're actually trying to tranquilize that and take it and relocate it. located. So I don't know if we have big cats. It kind of sound like when a big cat gets mad and they like scream type thing happened a couple of times. And that kind of freaked me out and my kids too.

And my fiance, I was like, I looked at him and he was like, I'm not sure what that is. And I was like, well, I don't want to be out here to find out. And he was like, yeah. So we got the kids that took them inside. And my other friends, they heard it before too. And they're like, what is that? I'm not sure. I'm like something out here. I'm not looking to find out what it is. Did you guys move from that property or do you still live there? I left within three weeks of that happening of seeing it. I didn't want to deal with it because I had small kids because after I thought I started doing

a whole bunch of research and I seen that they do like small children. and at the time my oldest was eight, he's nine now, and then my son was six and he's seven now. And my youngest daughter, she was five, and she's turned six. And she's, my five-year-old was, she's all about doing all this. She's really energetic. She likes to just be rebellious. And, you know, you tell her not to go in the woods, or she'll run over there in the woods. And constantly, I already worried about her getting, like, maybe poison ivy or getting bit by a snake.

and then I saw that, and I'm like, I should probably be the one to get eaten by that. I'm going to a little dog three weeks later because I was like, no, I can't put my kids in risk because they were complaining more about being watched from the woods. I mean, like I said, I felt it when I went back in the room. I felt it quite a few times when I was standing out there, but they constantly complained about it.

Like, I didn't feel it every single time I was outside or in the room, but they did, like, all, every, single time they could play. Something's staring at us from the woods. And I'll be like, you're okay. I just thought they were making it up because they're, you know, their young kids. Like, there's a buggy man.

I'm like, there ain't no boogeyman. You're okay. Oh, the boogeyman is going to eat us. I was like, no, there's no boogeyman. I was like, but if there was a boogeyman, I feed you to them because you won't stop saying it. Yeah, I hear you. I hear you.

They were always talking about it. And like I said, I just, after I thought, I'm like, I'm not taking the risk of something happening to them. Yeah, I don't blame you. And I like your attitude, Liz. I mean, you almost kind of have to have a sense of humor. Otherwise, you'll cry. You know what I mean?

I don't know how else to put it. Otherwise, it's devastating. You almost kind of have to have a sense. And I like your vibe. I like your sense of humor. And I think it's a good thing. You know, a lot of times when people see these things, it destroys them. And I think that you can't let them do that.

They're out there. They're in the woods. You can absolutely run into one. It may not go the way you want it to go. But you almost kind of have to have somewhat of a sense of humor. Otherwise, you know, the only option is to drink and get depressed about it. And I think he did the right thing as far as moving out. I really think he did the right thing. Obviously, it was around the property. And who knows what its intentions were. Who knows what the last renter did to it. And it didn't seem like it was real friendly. when it came out, it wasn't, you know, looking to have a drink with you. You know, I think if you would have done, stepped off that deck and went towards it, I think that would have been, probably wouldn't hear from you again. And they do. And I kind of felt bad about leaving my friend out there because I'm sure it could have snatched her if it wanted to. Yeah.

You never talk to me again since then, though. Well, it's, it's fight or flight. And it's a real thing. Either you will fight or you will run. And I think in that situation, I think, fighting is the last resort. I want to ask you, what do you think that these things are? What's your honest opinion?

Someone would ask you, what do you think Sasquatch is? What would you say to them? Their own little species that's probably been out there for hundreds and hundreds of years, to be honest with you. And we just, they're really good at hiding, so we don't know nothing about them. And if we do, well, we, the people don't know anything about them. I know the government knows plenty about them. I can guarantee that.

but we the people don't know anything about them, but I know that they've probably been there probably for hundreds and hundreds of years. They're too smart to not have been out there for that long, and people just, you know, they just don't see them. It's just what it comes down to. I know they have to be their own kind, though, because they're not human, but they have human characteristics, and they're not a monkey because they're not, you know,

they don't look or act like one all the time. So I have to say they're probably their own kind of species because, I mean, I do paranormal stuff. And I can't say that they're spirit because I deal with spirits all the time and they're nothing like a spirit. Can I ask you a question? This isn't Bigfoot related. This is me being selfish. What's the craziest paranormal encounter you've been to? What's the scariest EVP you've heard?

The scariest EVP is actually wasn't even that scary, but it actually wasn't even that scary. actually made my heart, like, jump and stop, and it did with me and my friend and my fiance. We all got it. We were all recording on separate devices, and we were inside a mausoleum at a cemetery, and there was a little girl. She was the only one in the mausoleum. She was seven. They had passed away, and the rest of them were all adults. She's the only little kid that was in there. And on our recording devices, as we were walking around talking, we got, Mommy, Mommy, can you hear us? come out in our recorder and it had nothing like no kids were there with us it was just us three and it shocked us like it made our heart stop we showed it to the people that own the cemetery

and they were like really shocked by it too they were like oh my god so that is probably like the most awesome scariest thing because i felt like so many emotions when i heard a little kid trying to communicate to us and the scariest thing i've ever been had happened is we've had a black shadow chase us. Really? Yeah. Where did that happen at? Same cemetery.

It's not even far from where I was living in that trailer, actually. It's about seven miles down the road, south of a road called 258, and we were off in that cemetery, and we did a lot of stuff over there, and we had just come out of the mausoleum because we kept seeing it and it looked like somebody was walking around outside. we had gone around over to the office area and we were all just in there talking and so my fiancé kind of walked off and we kept hearing something around the building

so he went and checked around the building he was like there's nobody over here and me and her were spinning over by the vehicle and all of a sudden this black shadow and it was definitely not human coming towards her and me and me and her jump into the vehicle and started leaving my fiance behind

like we were leaving on when he was and the door was locked and he was like banging on the side of it running next to the van and he's like let me in so we unlocked the door and he jumped in as we were still moving and we went around turned around and we looked and it was gone but it was just that fast it was see-through but it was also a shadow at the same time it was really really scary i've never seen anything like that before in my life that really terrified me yeah that is terrifying that is terrifying that is terrifying I want to say you're crazy for doing that, but, you know, I chase Bigfoot, so those in glass houses, I guess, you know what I mean? But you wouldn't catch me doing that. Yeah, I mean, and it's a real thing. You know, the paranormal world is absolutely a real thing. And I used to say, I don't say it anymore because a lot of kids listen to the show now. But I used to say, if you don't believe in the paranormal, go buy a Ouija board, go play with it, and then tell me you don't believe in demons. But I don't

I want to touch a Ouija board, man. You can't pay me enough to touch a weege board. Yeah, and I don't recommend. There's a lot of kids that listen to the show, so I don't recommend. Wes says don't play with a Ouija board, too, as well. It's bad for business. Liz, I don't play with a Ouija board as well.

Liz, I've really enjoyed having you on. It's been a pleasure talking with you, and I can't thank you enough for coming on. I appreciate it. And we'll be bringing Timothy Renner on the show here in a moment. And I should have included Tim in some of my best-staff shows. You guys know Timothy Rinner. I've had him on the show many times.

Author, podcaster, a great guy, and he's somewhat of a historian too as well. Before we get into that, I want to thank Empty Faces for sponsoring the show and this next portion of the show. And speaking of the paranormal, this is kind of a cool gift. If you're looking for a Christmas gift, if you're like me, I'm terrible at giving gifts. I'm known as Cash is King. I'll just give cash to people. but sometimes the thought counts more than giving cash. Empty Faces is a monthly subscription where you become immersed in the paranormal investigation

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And again, it makes a great Christmas gift. Thank you to Empty Faces for sponsoring the show. Well, next up on the show, I want to welcome Timothy Rinner. He's a fan favorite, one of my favorite guests to have on the show. He has a new book out. Don't look behind you, following Ghost Roads into the Unknown. You can pick it up on Amazon, and Tim's written a bunch of books. So if you go to Amazon, just type in Timothy Rinner, and he has

He's got a really cool Bigfoot books. He's got the seventh gate or beyond the seventh gate. He's got a lot of cool books. And I started reading this, Don't Look Behind You, following Ghost Roads into the Unknown. And I was just telling you, Tim, before when on there, and I'll say it publicly, I really like how you write your books. I really do. You almost feel like, and you don't get this a lot of times with books where you feel like the author is speaking to you. It's very easy to read, and I can almost hear you speaking. And it kind of tells you, and stories as they go along. I really am enjoying the book a lot. I can't wait to finish it. I hope doing the show tonight doesn't ruin any spoilers for me. Well, thanks. Yeah, absolutely, man.

And thanks for being here. I really appreciate it. Oh, I love, you know, I love Susquatch Chronicles, so it's always a pleasure for me to be here. And also check, yeah, I appreciate that, Tim. Also check out Tim's podcast, Strange Familiers. You check it out on YouTube, check it out on iTunes, and any podcast player you have. It's called Strange Familiar. I try and post them to the blog. Great podcast, too, as well. So if you get a chance to check that out.

But tonight, we're going to be talking about Don't Look Behind You. I love the name. You should have just called it Don't Look Behind You. Following Ghost Roads into the Unknown. Tell us a little bit about the book. And if you would, maybe walk into the Toad Road. Yeah, so way back, I guess the first time I was on,

we talked about my first book, on the Seventh Gate. And that was about this Toad Road area as well and some other areas in New York County, Pennsylvania where I live and around. And I never thought I would get more than one book out of it. But people started contacting me with stories after that one was published. And I found some more historical information and a lot of like cryptid stuff and just weird stories.

And then I had some of my own weird experiences in the area. So I put them in this and kind of have a part two. But you don't have to read the first book to read, don't look behind you. You can read them separately. You don't need one to read the other one. So that's kind of what led to this. And I don't know that I'll get another book out of the area, but who knows? Maybe 15 more people will contact me and I'll have another one down the road.

But there's a lot of weird stuff in here and some Bigfoot stuff. So there's a good bit of Bigfoot as well as some other cryptids. And like I said, my own weird experiences out there. Yeah, and I want to talk about some of that stuff. And, you know, one of the things, it tells us what's one of the strangest encounters in the book? It doesn't have to be Bigfoot related. What's one of the strangest encounters in the book that the reader will really dig into? I think that the Toad Man story just came out of nowhere for me because it was just a woman who called me.

She called me up. It was real late one night. She called me, like, I want to say it's around midnight or something. And she said, you know, are you the guy who writes the Toad Road stories? I was like, yep, that's me. and she's like, well, I have stories. She's like, I went out there and she started talking about being chased by a guy in a black Cadillac. And I was like, well, that's kind of weird.

She's like, yeah, he would chase you down the road. And she's like, but the thing you had to be really worried about was the Toad Man. Now, there was these weird stories of this doctor that people said would chase people around there. And some people said he collected Toads. And that's why it was named Toad Road. This is all nonsense I debunk in the first book. But that's what I thought she meant. I thought she was calling the doctor the toad man.

But as the conversation progressed, something about the way she said that. I said, what do you mean toad man? And she said, oh, no, there was something that lived down in the creek. And in the darkest part of the road there, it was a toad man. And she said, I'm not going to tell you, I saw it, but I'm not going to tell you I didn't see it. But she said, that was, it was weird. It looked like a toad. But it was a man.

And it would live in the creek. She said it would come up out of the creek. night. And I thought, man, that's really weird. And she said, you've never heard that story before. I said, no, I've never heard that story before. She said, that's why they call it Toad Road. Well, I don't know if that's the case because I think there's a bunch of different reasons it's called that, but I thought it was really interesting. And I kind of followed it away. And then I ran into this story from 1905. It says it was about a fish man. And this is just eight miles north of Toad Road in the Susquehanna River. And this is, again, it's from 1905. It's from the, it's from the

Wilkes Bar record, fish walks like a man, strange animal alarms residents along Susquehanna, York City, October 22nd. People residing along the river midway between Clye and Goldsboro are mystified and some alarmed over the sight of a strange creature that has its abode in the Susquehanna. Thus far, but two men and their wives have seen the thing. As it was seen in broad daylight, more credence is given to the story than would be if it had been seen at night, when people are more prone to see things. The strange creature, whether fish or animal, is described as being as large as a man.

When seen it came up out of the water, erect like a man, and is described as looking like a man without arms. Those persons who have seen it declare that they are not victims of an optical illusion. So this is this report from 1905. I dug it up just randomly. I'm absolutely sure this old woman had not read this report. I mean, no one's reprinted this report for over 100 years. So that was probably the most shocking thing to actually have like a toad man on Toad Road. It seems really weird, but, you know, there's these weird stories, these things around.

And that's what I like about you, Tim, is you dig up stuff. I know when I had, and no one else knows this but Tim, but when I had the two brothers and we were talking about the woman in white, they were talking about the woman in white. Now, I've never heard of such a thing with the woman in white. And Tim, you were the one that contacted me, and you're like, you might want to look into that woman and white thing. I don't think these guys are lying to you. Do some research on it because this woman's, this has been seen for centuries, this woman in white. And I started looking it up and you were right. And that's what I like about, and I say that to say this, what I like about it is instead of just brushing it off, you'll go in and start researching it.

And then you find this. And it makes you wonder, why is it called Toad Road and the Toad Man? And so there's always historical stuff that comes up, you know, even modern day encounters like the woman in white. Yeah, yeah. Like I was telling you earlier when we were talked, there's a weird quote from the Renaissance, and I'm not going to get it exactly right, but it's in lute songs. And I think Shakespeare quoted it about maids leading apes in hell. Now, maids would have worn white, you know, maidens. So it's, you know, there's this, it repeats, you know, throughout time.

this kind of drumbeat. But yeah, the woman in white thing I found, you know, in a number of other cases related to Bigfoot, I'm actually collecting stories on that if anybody has any. Contact me because I'm working on a book now with Joshua Cutch and another author where we're kind of compiling the weirder aspects of the Bigfoot phenomena. And that's one of them we're definitely working on. Yeah, I'll have to do that. I'll get you in touch with one of the brothers. I know he'll talk with you about, and they have all kinds of, I mean, half the story, you and I talked about some of the stories off the air, but with this woman in white, but they see her constantly, you know, and I asked one's the last time you guys saw her. And one of the brothers

was moving off the property. He was moving away. He was just getting rid of. He didn't want to be there anymore. And the other brother was staying. And the last time they saw the woman in white, she was at, showed up at the end of the driveway. They both look up. They make eye contact with her. Now, she's never spoken to them. She's never said a word to either one of them. And she looked at one of the brothers that's staying that's still on the property to this day, pointed at him and gave that evil smile. And then she took off. She just left. And you're right.

It shows up in UFO encounters. I found several UFO encounters where this woman in white shows up. I've heard about it in paranormal encounters. I've heard about it in Bigfoot encounters. And it's just bizarre. You know what I mean? When you start really looking into the history of the really bad stuff. I think, like, because after you aired this show, I think there was some people talking about it in your forums, and somebody mentioned seeing it there, and that made me look it up, and I found a case from the 1800s. We did a show on it on Strange Familiar called Witch Diggers. It's one of the earlier episodes if people want to look back at it. But that was a very similar case in a way to the two brothers. I mean, except it kind of, it drove the family crazy, the repeat encounters. But they talked about, you know, at the

times they didn't use the word Bigfoot or Sasquatch. They talk about these monkeys and apes climbing through the window and attacking them and stuff. But there was these weird witches, they said, and I believe, I could be wrong, but I believe they said they were witches that were white that were associated with these, this repeated, like, Bigfoot activity. And I'll tell you, I'll tell you a story real quick, Tim. And if you want, I'll put you in contact with him. I won't say his name on the air because I'll embarrass him. And he didn't want this out publicly, but I guess if I don't say his name, it'll be okay. Or they were out doing, quote-unquote, you know, research or whatever you want to call it.

I cringe saying that. But anyway, they're out doing Bigfoot research. And they're walking down this trail. And he said that this woman in white appeared and turned back and looked at them. And then she was gone. And he goes, do you think that was a ghost? Do you think, you know, I don't know. I don't know what it was.

But it was odd because he had told me that about four years ago. And I said, well, it must have just been a ghost you ran into her demon or, but he specifically said it was a woman in white. Yeah, see, there was another, and this kind of ties into another thing I talk about in the book, but I got called out for this investigation. Local investigation, this guy called me, said, you're going to think I'm crazy, but I saw Bigfoot. And I said, well, no, I don't think you're crazy. I'd like to talk to you. And I said, are you going to be around tomorrow? He said, yeah, I'll be home tomorrow.

So I'll be there. So I drove to his place. He had seen a creature on his property. He seen two of them, actually, on his property. They were together. He goes out in spots deer every night. And he said he has a pond on his property. He was shining his spot across the pond and caught the eye shine first.

Then he said, you know, he focused the light on him. He saw he saw two creatures to stand there. and they started ducking behind trees and so forth. Well, I went across the pond. He wouldn't go over there. He said, you're going to go over there. I'll go over there. It's daytime.

I don't think anything's going to get me. And I had my walk-and-stick. I said, you know, tell me where to stop where they were standing. I'm raising it up. You know, tell me how high they were, about eight feet off the ground, whatever he saw. And right where I was standing, I looked down and I found a deer skull. Now, that's another story we can get into later. But anyway, I go back around and I talk to the guy.

And in the process, he says, you know this place is haunted. I said, it is it? And he said, yeah. And he starts describing all this other weird activity that's going on. Of course, he's having wall slaps and stuff walking on the roof. And like, you've heard this in a million Bigfoot encounters. But the weird thing is, you know, that stuff also happens in poltergeist encounters, you know. Weird knocks and weird sounds like that and stuff.

But he says, I have pictures of these ghosts. Do you want to see him? I said, yeah, I'd like to see those. and he starts showing me these pictures and they're they're very kind of blurry they look like your average ghost picture that you might see like somebody takes a picture of a you know kind of a hazy figure but every one of these the face looks like not like a human it looked like a saucequatch face to me and he's going like look at that guy it's a biker wearing sunglasses I said is it I said you know what it looks like to me and he's like what I said that looks like a

Sasquatch to me. Like that doesn't look like like it looks like big eyes and long hair. He was kind of a biker guy. So he was assuming these are all like sort of biker ghosts. Like these look like hairy ape men to me, dude. And that's what all these weird photos look like except one. He had one photo he took in a mirror, which was a woman in white. And I said, how would you describe that? Because I didn't want to lead him. And he said, oh, just a woman. And see, he's like in the ghost hunting world. And I guess in that world, it's, they feel like everyone sees a woman in white so they don't want to say that because it's too typical. But that's what it looked like. I mean, and finally, I got him to say, I said, what color is she wearing?

He's like, oh, white. And I said, okay, all right, just checking. You know, so here he's having this big foot stuff. And then all this other weird stuff is happening around his house. Yeah, and I want to, well, before I go on, you know, one of the things you brought up was the sunglasses thing. and I know I've had a couple witnesses on where they said it, they thought it was a big, huge guy with sunglasses on. But the eyes were so deep sunken in that, you know,

and with that forehead kind of protruding from a distance, it looks like they have sunglasses on. So it's bizarre that you picked up on that. Yeah, I mean, that's what he said. He said, look, this is like a biker guy wearing sunglasses, and I looked at it and I said, that's not what it looks like to me. Not at all. It looked like a squatch to me.

But they're like ghosts like. pictures. It's really weird, you know, and, and of course, some people are like, oh, it's their, they're, what they say, like phasing in and out of divensions or something. You don't know that. I don't, you know, I don't know what it is. I'm just telling you what it looked like to me, you know. Yeah, and I want to talk a little bit about your experiences on that Toad Road, but before I do, you know, the book, don't look behind you following Ghost Roads into the Unknown by Timothy Rinner on Amazon. You know, one of the things you started talking about in the very beginning of the book was the hide behinds. And when you read the hide behinds, and if you would,

maybe explain to the audience, but when you read how they act, it sounds like a modern day encounter. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So that was something, when I first moved in the area, you know, I'm into all this weird stuff. So when I first moved up here, my wife's from the area, I said, you know, where's the weird stuff? Where's, where's the ghost? Where's the haunted stuff? Where's the, you know, at the time, honestly, I didn't know there were so many bigfoot settings in the area. But, you know, she's telling me, you know, here and here and here. And she mentions this Toad Road. And she said, I said, well, what's the deal with that?

Because it sounded interesting. I had a neat name. And she said, well, the only thing I can tell you is she went to day camp out there. And she said, the only thing I can tell you is they told me, don't look behind you on Toad Road. I was like, oh, that's neat. Now, I didn't know what that was. Like, you know, I thought, is there supposed to be like a killer that stalks you or something? So this was years.

This was like back in the 1990s, she tells me this. And I just followed it away. And as I was doing research from my first book, I said, man, these, you know, what people are seeing out there sure sounds like cryptid stuff. And I ran into this like story from Pennsylvania folklore of the hide behind. It said, so it was a, I think it was a Nanticoke legend. Obviously the high behinds it's an angle-sized name. It's not an Indian name. But it came from Pennsylvania and they said when the Europeans got here, they told them to beware of the lights in the woods.

They said, don't follow them or they'll turn around and follow you. And then they said, beware of this thing called the hide behind. And they said, the hide behind follows you through the forest. It would hide behind trees and peek out from behind trees. And they said, only the bravest person should be the last in line because only the bravest can be relied on to never look behind. And that's where it finally clicked. Like, oh, don't look behind you on Toad Road. That's what they're talking about.

They're talking about this hide behind thing. And yeah, it sure does sound like. like a big foot with the peeking from the trees and it's supposed to snatch the last person in line because they said that often I guess if you look behind you and you saw it you would get frozen by fear or some other thing they don't explain exactly how it would it would get people but they said it would take the last person in line yeah when I was reading that as I was going through man that creep me out when I was reading that section about the hide behinds and when you read you know when you really look into the hide behinds they don't

follow you necessarily from behind. A lot of it sounds like they kind of paste people out. Obviously, they would snatch people and everything else. But like you said, the way they would act, how they would peek around trees and just kind of pace you all the way out. It's bizarre, man. It's bizarre. Tell me about Toad Road. When did you go to Toad Road? What are some of the things that happened to you down there? Well, I first started going out when I wrote my first book. And I think, like, you'll see a lot of people in the internet who have claimed to have hiked it and stuff. And honestly, I don't believe that. I think I'm probably, me and my son are probably the only people in years who have done the whole end-to-end. Now, people will go back there. They're not supposed to, but they will. But I don't think

they get very far. It turns very quickly from what you can tell was an old road to you lose the path completely. And unless you know what you're doing, you're going to get hurt or get lost or or both. So I, you know, I'd hiked the whole thing for the first book just because I wanted to do it because I was writing about it. But nothing, I mean, I took a weird picture of something. I, you know, I can't really say what it is. It's just a weird picture.

And that's in the first book. I reprinted in this book just because I talk about it again. And, you know, if somebody didn't get the first book. Some people say it looks like a dog man. I'm not saying that for a second. The other thing I can tell you is I took a picture or something. I didn't know it was there when I took the picture. and then when I came back to take a picture to see what it was, it wasn't there.

So that's the only thing I can tell you about it. But that wasn't really, like I didn't sense anything that day. I didn't find anything weird that day. But I went up another time and I met an actual guy. It was a guy who heard me on Sasquatch Chronicles. He's like, oh, I got some Bigfoot stuff in the area I want to show you. So I met him out there. And he started showing me some tree breaks and stuff.

You know, pretty interesting stuff. But nothing, you know, with tree breaks, it's always hard to tell. unless it's really dramatic, like really, really dramatic, you can tell something with hands did it. It's kind of hard to tell if they're, you know, anything I can say is there's, there seems to be a lot there, you know, but I can't tell if there's, if they're natural breaks or not most of the time. Now, there was one, it was a big X with the roots facing up. That was interesting because usually trees don't fall with the roots facing up. So that one was particularly interesting. The others, you know, I don't know.

There's a lot, you know, like I said, the only thing is say, there seems to be a lot there. I don't know if they're natural or otherwise. But his girlfriend was there. And while we were talking, she went down and sat on a rock by the creek. This is February of 2017, I think. And she came back up after a bench. I heard something huffing across the creek, like making a huffing noise. And I said, well, what direction show me?

And she took me down and she pointed across the creek. And you couldn't see much over there. It was very brushy and everything. but there was a big white sycamore tree that stood out against the rest of the trees. It was real bright white and something was shaking. I mean, it was whipping back and forth. And I pointed out to the guy, I was like, dude, look at that. And he's like, oh, wind must be blown.

I said, there's no other trees moving. That's the only tree moving. Tell me, like, how is wind going to move a single tree? So I have no clue what did that. I couldn't see the bottom of the tree. There's no paths over on the other side of the creek. nothing should have been there. But that was the first kind of really weird thing that happened to me.

And that was after I read about that in the new book. And don't look behind you because it happened after I published my first book. Then I went out there one day. I was hiking with my buddy. And we hiked about, I want to say, a half mile, maybe three quarters of a mile. The road itself, like I said, it's an old closed road. It's private property. So people shouldn't be there.

I have permission to be there. but we had done, like I said, maybe three-quarters of a mile, and he had to go for whatever reason. We turned around and walked back on the trail, and I found a raccoon skull. It was a perfectly clean raccoon skull, and I hadn't seen it on the way in. I could have missed it.

I could have stepped over. It was right in the middle of the trail. I usually don't, because I've been collecting them since I was a kid. I like to draw them. I don't collect anything with any kind of gore on it. I think it's nasty. But if they're clean, if they're, like, dry, dry, clean, sun bleached,

I'll pick him up and fill them in my pack. I picked this one up, put in my pack, and made plans with him to come back in three weeks and finish the hike. I like to do the whole road when I do it. I'm just weird that way. I like a completest. So three weeks comes and he cancels for whatever

reason. I wanted to do it, so I went out there by myself and I got to the part on the trail about, really, it was about where I found that raccoon's skull, I heard something up ahead. I looked up ahead and there was something big and gray, kind of gray and black. And it was so quick, I can't tell you it was a squatch. I really can't. I don't know what it was, but it was big and it was fast.

It was bigger than anything I've ever seen in the woods in York County. I had somebody tell me it was an elk. We haven't had elk here for 200 years. So if it was an elk, that was a pretty special elk sighting there. it was big, quiet, and moved fast. It moved south and not through any act of bravery. I followed it. And like I told you before, I ended up calling Tony Merkel that day because I was like, man, I saw something like something big and quiet. And the thing that was really kind of shocked me is I took off after it. So if it was trying to lead me somewhere, I took the bait. And I didn't even think about it. Again, it wasn't bravery. I wasn't being brave. I just, I just, I,

I did not think I was very much like I was in a trance. And I followed this thing probably three quarters of a mile or a mile. And in the time that I'd been there, so the time I was there with my friend when I found the Raccoons call, it was March. This was well into April and stuff had really grown up. It was really nasty down in there. It was like poison ivy and stinging nettles.

And I ended up being like covered in ticks that day. I think I pulled like four or five ticks off me. It's just not fun hiking. The trail's real like. muddy, like the kind of sucking mud where you got to, you know, pull your foot out of the, you know, a foot of mud here and there. Not a fun hike at all. And I'm going on this trail and at some point I'm just stopped by this.

It was a deer skull. It's what's on the cover of the book that was at eye level in the middle of the trail. Now, this wasn't there three weeks before. And there shouldn't have been anybody down in there. And it could have person have done it. Yes. A human could have come down there. there, but they would have had to either bring this perfectly clean deer skull with them and put it on a branch or found a deer skull down there and put it in there.

Whatever the case, that's what I ran into, and that's what kind of snapped me out of the trance. I went, whoa, like, and I picked it up, and I put in my pack. I wasn't thinking much about it, but somebody asked me if I thought it was a warning. I don't know. Like, what are impressions worth? Do I think it's a warning? I don't think so. I felt, honestly, I felt like it was more like, this sounds crazy.

I know. I felt like it was somebody saying, oh, you like that raccoon skull? Well, you're really going to like this. That's sort of the impression I got for whatever impressions are worth. And I took that home. But here's the weird thing. Ever since then, and I'm going to put the number at 70%, but it's probably actually higher.

On Bigfoot investigations, I find. skulls now. Perfectly clean skulls, usually deer skulls. Like I said, I've been collection since I was a kid. In the past year, my collection has probably doubled, if not tripled in size. It's insane. And I do not know how to account for this. Like I said, I was at that other investigation. Right where that guy said the creatures were, I looked down after he was done telling me, you know, the height and everything across the pond, and there was a deer skull there. I found I had a guy take me

out. He was actually a real early guest on Sasquatch Chronicles and he came on Strange Familiar as he experienced a scream in the forest in Michaud Forest in Adams County, Pennsylvania. But he'd had some other encounters since then. He took me out and he showed me

three different places, one of which was a place where there's a white lady, actually a ghost of a white lady, the white lady at Pondbank, which is about not even a quarter mile from where he had these different sightings and he got screamed at. But we stopped, I think, four places. He had these four different areas he wanted to show me. Three out of the four places I found Deer's skull. And these are not, I'm not crawling around in the brush looking for these. These are sitting out in the open,

just sitting there. I told another Bigfoot investigator about this from Western Pennsylvania. I remember I talked to him, I think it was on a Saturday. And I told him this was happening. on Sunday he sent me a picture of a tree structure with a skull in it. So the very next day, I don't know what this is about. Yeah, it does show up. I mean, it does show up in, especially when people have these things around their property. I've heard that a million times where they'll walk out their door and there's a perfectly clean skull, almost like a polished skull of either a deer or whatever. I think even one guy, he thought it was a dog, a dog skull.

And it was just left there. Now, when he say eye level, so it was actually up in the branches. It wasn't just sitting in the middle of the trail. This was up in the branches facing. Oh, yeah, it was impaled on a branch at eye level. Like, there was no way you can miss it, like right in the middle of the trail. No way you can miss it. Can I ask you the thing you were following, was it on four legs?

Was it on two? I realize it was probably a quick glimpse, but. It was a real quick glimpse, but I think it was quadrival. But, like, it looked like it was being powered by the front end. So if you push me and say, was it running like a deer, I don't think so. Was it running like an ape? Yeah, I think it was. Also, the back was real wide. Like, it had a wide back. You know what I mean? Not like an ungulate. Like, you know, a deer when it's running away from you, you get kind of a, it's not a wide back, you know. Yeah. And I think, I mean, you're a smart guy. You've been out in the woods a lot.

if it would have been a deer, I think you'd been like, oh, that's an elk or, oh, that's a, you know, a bear or that's a, because even a quick, quick glimpse, I mean, we've all seen them ever since we were little kids, you know, I mean, and I think you would have known right away if it was an elk or that's strange about the schools, ma'am. I don't know, I'd be taking them with you, but that's, that doesn't. Yeah, well, that's the thing. Yeah. And I don't know. I get into some, there's some weird, like, synchronicities and, stuff. And that's one of them, you know, and we're, there's a whole bunch of question marks around this stuff for me with the synchronicities. There's, I mean, how kooky do you want to get? I can tell you another kooky skull story if you want. Yeah, please. So, so, all right, uh, there's a guy who wrote a book on Al's in the paranormal. It's a very interesting book. It's called The Messenger. It's his name's Mike Clellan. And I've talked to Mike, and Mike was the guy who, when I started telling him about some of this weird stuff, he was like, he kind of encouraged me to, like, pursue it. He said, don't ignore this stuff. Don't ignore the weird stuff. Kind of, kind of dig in.

And in his book, there's a story, and it sounds very new agey, but, you know, there's a story of a woman who's supposedly every day when she wants to see an owl. She'll say, I'd like to see an owl today, and she will see an owl. Well, I thought, you know, this sounds new agey and it sounds a little, but whatever, I'm going to try it. And I said, one day I said, I'm getting ready to go on a hike and buy myself, so I'd like to find antlers today. Well, I went on my little hike and I saw something white blown in the tree. And I thought it was a plastic bag. And I actually, I carry a trash bag with me. I pick up junk in the woods.

I use the public parks a lot. I figured the least I can do is clean up when I go. It's very angry. I thought somebody left their bag of a doggy poo or maybe even a diaper or something in the tree. I got mad like, oh, man, I'm a little near-sighted. But when I walked up, it was the entire tail section of a barn owl, bright white, the entire tail section hanging in the tree. I went, whoa, that's weird. So I asked for antlers and got an owl.

Some other weird stuff with al synchronicity happened in between. I didn't in any way want to start collecting owls. I didn't want to get into owls in the paranormal. That was Mike's thing. It's not my thing. But I was looking for a different book to illustrate. I've been writing these historical Bigfoot books. And I was just honestly getting tired of illustrating Bigfoot.

I was getting tired of drawing Bigfoot. So I was like, I'm going to look for something else. I found this book on The Life of Merlin. It's like an old book. I said, well, that's neat. I'd like to draw Merlin. You know, draw some wizards. That'd be pretty cool.

So I'm working on this book on Merlin, and there's this part in the book where Merlin goes insane, and he goes off into the wild, and they refer to him as a wild man at that point, which of course, all these old Bigfoot books refer to Bigfoot as Wild Man. And I'm in this antique store. I see this whole shelf of these owl sculptures, and one of them looked pretty interesting. They were all a dollar. The whole, this must have been some, you know, person's collection of owls. This one was kind of hacked out of wood, kind of like a folk art carving. I said, well, I like that one. I'm going to get this one owl thing.

I pick it up, turn it around. On the back is a wizard carved into the back of this owl. It's like, what? So now there's this Merlin, Wildman, owl connection. Anyway, time goes on. I'm there again. This is just the, you know, this is the spring of 2018. So this isn't too long ago.

And I thought, I'm going to try again. This time I'm going to ask for a skull again. And I asked for a skull. And I walked about 15 minutes after this. I asked out loud to the woods. I would like to find a skull today. I know this sounds crazy. And I saw this clump of trees I'd never been in before.

For some reason, I mean, I hiked this part hundreds of times. I'd never seen this before. I was like, oh, that's weird. I'm going to go in there. I've never been there. I walked across this field into this clump of trees and I saw little bits of fur laying around. And I'm like, what, what's that? And there's a like a mound of stones in the middle of this.

It's like a circle of trees almost. There's a mound of stones in the middle of it. I'm walking towards this mound of stones. I'm seeing more and more fur laying around. And finally, I get to, it's the head of a groundhog that had been torn off. It's just the head. And the jaw had been ripped off of it. And there's no body.

There's no body of this groundhog. This is a fresh kill. And I'm looking around. I'm like, holy moly, I asked for a skull and I got one, but it was covered in gore. I didn't take that one. I backed out of the trees. That freaked me right out. There's a picture of it in the book.

You can see the, I took a picture of the jaw bone before I backed out of there, the jaw that was ripped off of the groundhog. That really freaked me out because that's one of those, be careful what you asked for in moments. and that was one of the things that got me kind of thinking more about all this. Yeah, it's interesting you're bringing up owls. I had a kid on the show one time, and it was his grand, I think it was his grandfather's diary, and he had just found it. It might have been maybe his great grandfather's diary. Anyway, and the guy, this was like 1905, and he was writing in his diary,

and he talked about these two owls that he had seen. And he described him being four feet tall and kind of looked like, they were talking to each other, and they stopped and looked at the grandfather. And I'll have to go back and listen to the whole show, but if my memory is right, he specifically wrote about what he called owls that were four feet tall looking at him. He went back to get his gun when he showed back up. They were gone. And one of my listeners contacted me, and they said, it wasn't an owl.

They go, if you see a great alien from a distance, doesn't it kind of look like an owl? And it made me kind of stopping, you know, messengers and everything else. And I was like, and I started looking into this owl thing, and it shows up through history, these owls. And it's not, I think, and you can credit, you know more about this than I do, Tim. A lot of times, I don't think they're talking about owls. I think they're describing it like an owl, like how someone would say, well, I saw a gorilla, if we had no term for Sasquatch or a wild man. You know, I saw a wild man.

Well, what does that mean? Is it a man that's just crazy out there running around? round. No, they're describing this. And when he was talking about this, them being four feet tall and kind of grayish, and there were owls, I think even he said there were hairless owls. And his grandfather specifically wrote about this and how terrified he was of these two things. And I've often wondered, is it an entity? Is it an alien? What are these owls that people are seeing? And why is it throughout history? Well, a lot of people, you know, there's something called screen memories. And this is a whole other show. I mean, I think I've experienced this myself, not with owls, but with something else, where they say that, like, so you see these gray alien things. And a lot of times if people get hypnotized, like, well, they'll think they saw a four-foot owl. Like, there's some crazy stories out there about people like seeing these giant owls, like crying blood and all this really weird stuff.

but then if these people get hypnotized, they weren't owls. That's like, I don't know if it's your mind. Like, that's the only way you can deal with it. You know what I mean? So you're putting an owl over this or if it's something the entities are doing. Like, you're seeing an owl, but that's not what's there. So there's this whole thing with screen memories in al's, you know, too. That's very big in the UFO stuff.

Yeah, it's bizarre. It's just bizarre. You know, I mean, there's so many bizarre things in this world. And that's why I'm not so quick to brush people off when I hear a really odd story. It's like the one I was telling you the other day, or actually right before we got on the air, I was telling you about the triangle being, the little three-foot thing that ran across, and the mother had sent it to me. And it sounds bizarre if you've never looked into it.

But it was this little three-foot being that ran across the trail in front of them. It stopped, looked at them, and then took off in the woods, and it was gone. He said it was really fast, but it had the head of a triangle. Now that sounds bizarre. But when you really start looking into that, that's not something new. And you almost kind of have to research it, but that is something in the alien community. They talk about these triangle head beings that people run into. So, you know, I guess going back and kind of really start researching, you know, like the Toad Man, like what you did.

You start researching it. And there might be something to some of this weird stuff. I know it sounds crazy to the audience, but. You know, like the owl thing. I mean, this guy's writing about it in his diary in like 1905, these two four-foot-tall owls that he was alarmed by. Well, what did that guy see? You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's a big owl. It's a natural owl. Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, and it's, you know, it's like I was saying before, you know, most of America thinks were crazy for believing in Bigfoot. You know what I mean? So to call these other things crazy.

Yeah, they sound, wow. They do. Like, I'll be the first to tell you. This stuff sounds really wacky, you know, but, you know, I think if we're willing to accept that there's a, you know, there's an eight foot tall, hairy thing in the woods. Like, maybe some of this other stuff, you know, just keep an open mind, I guess, is all I'm saying. Yeah, and I agree 100% with you. I want to ask you about the Bigfoot encounter in the book, but before we do, I know that Toad Road is notorious for lights. Have you ever seen any lights or anything in the sky when you were down on that Toad Road? not there i've never seen any um i thought i had i saw weird stuff on the ground one night but i ended up they were some kind of weird larva that only you can only see when it's absolutely completely totally dark so they were natural i'd just never seen them before because i you know i'd never been in an area that that had them in the in the ground that was uh where it was dark enough to see him but no i've never seen any of the lights there the other place i saw the lights is i was i was on

Susquechrott's Chronicles, and we talked about it. It's nearby where I saw those weird lights in the woods that may or may not have been eyeshine, the ones we were shooting with the laser. I already told you about that. Yeah, I can't wait to get through the whole book. I really can't wait to get through. Tell me about the Bigfoot stuff that you have in there. Yes.

So in the first book, one of the things that convinced me that we were talking about Bigfoot is a guy who talks about being attacked by Harry Monster out there. and it gave his name in the paper, in the newspaper articles, from 1973. And I look for this guy and look for this guy. I really wanted him in the first book, and I couldn't find him. Well, eventually I came across an old phone book, and his name was in there. He's not on the Internet, there's no Internet presence, and I took a chance. I wrote him a letter.

Like, old-timey letter with a stamp with my phone number, I said, I would like to talk to you about this incident. please write me back or call me or you know you know I really would just like to talk to you about this well a couple weeks go by and I get a phone call and he says man I never thought I'd talk about this again and he said that newspaper article it didn't quite tell the whole story it was a very short article it just said man claims have been tacked by a hairy monster on trout run road which is the road that basically leads right into towed road and he said there was way more to it it than that. And it took me about six months to draw the story out of this guy. He didn't want to tell it. He would change the subject over and over again. I think, like, I'm not a psychiatrist or anything, but I think he had PTSD because he said every time he'd talk to me about it, he'd wake up with nightmares for two weeks afterwards. He didn't particularly like talking about it. And like I said, it took me six months to draw the story on him. He told me his girlfriend hated whenever he talked to me that she wouldn't, She was just, you know, because he'd wake up with these nightmares.

And she said she just hated him talking to me. So eventually he stopped taking my calls. Now, so I stopped calling him. I don't want to torture the guy. If he doesn't want to talk to me anymore, that's that. But I was able to get most of the story out of him. He was in his car. He parked there one night and his car wouldn't start.

You know, tried it again and again. He said something kept coming up and brushing against his car. And he couldn't see it. He kept looking out and trying to see it. And he would hear it brush against his car and even feel the car move. but he could never see what it was. And he was there for hours. And he finally said, well, I got to go.

This is 1973, no cell phones. And he said, I just, you know, I couldn't stay there all night. So he takes off running. And he said he literally ran into this creature. And he said, he never said Bigfoot to me. He said, I ran into a big hairy monster. And he said, it beat me down. He said, I ran right into it.

It was bigger than any man I've ever seen in my life. It was standing on two legs. And it just beat me. to the ground. He went to the hospital for a week. And the paper said he was sent to the hospital with scratches on his face. So they said they really kind of played it down. He was in the hospital for a week after this. He had some kind of head injury because he said he had, he couldn't remember. He was in high school. He was like 18 when this happened. He said he couldn't remember where his classes were when he went back to high school. They had to take him around to his classes.

So I don't know how, I never got to the idea who found him or if. he picked himself up after that and made his way to a house or how he got to the hospital. But he did say the police went and retreated his car and he said it started right up for them. He said, no problem. Started right up. And they said, when they found it, the back door was open. So something or someone with hands had opened the back door. The only thing that was missing, he said he had an antique knife, a big knife with a red handle.

He said that was the only thing that was missing from the back seat. Again, this is a rural area. I don't know who'd been out there, you know, four in the morning. But, you know, they were able to start his car first try. And that was that. But I had these two other stories that, and none of these people know each other from the area where people said things were messing with their car. And one of them, they said it was like pressing down on the car. Again, these are all from the 1970s because there's weird urban legends about this place that pop up like post-internet.

So I don't like talking to I like talking to people who were there before the internet, you know what I mean? Because I tend to believe their stories a little more because they're not influenced by the internet stories. And so these were all people who were there in the early 70s. And, you know, these separate people, this is a woman who told me another story

about the area. It wasn't, you know, I tell it in the book. She talks about seeing this gate and so forth. But not Bigfoot related. But anyway, these were her friends. And she said something was pushing down on the back of the car and they could feel it spring up every time. And they had attributed it to a ghost. But another guy at a paranormal convention, he saw my book, he's like, oh, Toad Road.

And he starts telling me the story. And he was out there with his girlfriend. He said something was lifting the car up. Now this is an old, you know, 70s car. This is heavy. He said it was lifting the back end of the car off the ground and dropping it. Did it two or three times. And he just tore out of there.

He said his girlfriend was screaming and crying. And he left. He said, and those people never saw what was touching their car. But it was in the exact same area that this fellow Michael got attacked. Yeah, that's fascinating. Especially the guy when his car wouldn't start. You know, Stan Gordon, I had him on, and we were talking about some of the weirder stuff and how cars won't start when these things are around or not always.

But there's weird coincidences sometimes that you kind of raise an eyebrow to where, what's going on there? Why wouldn't the car start? And you hear that like in UFO encounters, like your car won't start or, you know, your electronics don't work. And sometimes with these things, it does the same thing. And I've heard a lot of Bigfoot researchers tell me that. You know, our cameras fail. All our batteries die.

There was an even incident I had, gosh, probably two, 300 shows ago, where the car started dying when the thing came around. His car actually was starting to die when the thing was around. and the minute it took off in the woods, his car was fine. That guy's lucky to be alive. So it actually gave him the beatdown of his life when he ran into it. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And he said, like I said, he never said Bigfoot.

I was, I actually said to him, I was like, do you think it could have been a Bigfoot? And he got real quiet and he went, you know, I never thought about that. So he, in all these years, he had never, he just wasn't a Bigfoot guy. You know what I mean? To him, he ran into a monster. So, you know, and the weird thing was, I was, I was. I do all these paranormal conventions to sell my books. I was at another one, and I collect stories at him.

And this guy from Maryland told me a story. He said, you know, my best friend, he said, we had this thing. It was called the Hook Road Werewolf. This is in Westminster, Maryland. So this is, it's south of here. It's not terribly far away. And I thought, you know, well, was it like a dogman creature? He said, no, he's like, it was a Sasquatch.

We just, you know, back in the 70s, Bigfoot didn't live in Pennsylvania or Maryland. You know, Bigfoot lived in California and Oregon, you know. So we just called it a werewolf. because it ran on two legs and was covered in hair. But he said, it was a very similar story. He said, my friend was running through the woods one night, and he ran square into this thing, and it beat him down. It broke this guy's arm, snapped his arm and threw him down.

And, you know, I don't think they like to be touched. I would advise people not to touch them. Yeah, and I agree with you on that, Tim. It's almost like, you know, I hope, hopefully this comes across the right way. Sometimes with people who have, especially kids and stuff, when they have severe autism, they don't like to be touched. And it's almost like they react with contact. And even adults, you know, who have, and maybe it's not autism and we even think of different disease, but where they don't like to be touched. And I've noticed that with these creatures.

There was a guy I had on the show one time. And he was pretty friendly with this creature. He'd bring it food and everything else. One time he reached out and touched its arm. and he said it freaked out. It did not like that contact at all. And he said, oh, you know, it was gentle. He was just touching its arm.

And I guess it just went nuts and took off through the woods, started knocking trees over. But I have had encounters where people run into them. There's one guy who was going to go out and secure his kids. And he actually ran right into one. And his clothes... Oh, yeah. That was a guy in Florida. I remember that one.

Yeah. And his clothes stunk. Remember, he went back and his wife said, you need to take all your clothes. was off out here, and he said the creature just stunk. And just by making that contact, all his clothes stunk. And he said he had to end up throwing, if I remember right, you probably know the shut better than I do. He had to throw all his clothes out because he couldn't get the smell out of his clothes. But that creature didn't necessarily react. He said it was like running into a brick wall. I think he got lucky, honestly. I think he did. I mean, from these other creatures, I would not,

like, I've heard people say, like, I want to reach out and tell you, like, I think you're taking your life and you're in hands if you do. I really do. I wouldn't touch one. Yeah, you may not get your arm back if you do. What was the name of the gate that you were talking about? So my first book, I spent a lot of time, like, debunking this gate idea. Because there's the internet legend thing is about the supposed seven gates of hell.

And I spent a lot of time in the first book, just kind of proven that wrong. And there weren't seven gates out there and so forth. But a lot of people call. And again, these are people who were out there in the seven. and even a guy as far back as in 1950s, they kept telling, you know, there is a gate. There was a gate out there. And I finally had to give in and listen to these people. And there was a big iron gate.

It's just where it was one gate. Yeah, yeah, let's just stop there. That's where I'm actually at it in the book. I don't even want to hear anymore because I want to hear about this iron gate. I just started reading it. And I was like, when you mentioned the gate, I don't know. It's called the Iron Gate in the chapter, correct? Yeah.

Yeah, that's where I'm at. Yeah, let's just leave it. it there. Unless you want to go into it, just don't spoil it for me because I want to read that part. Oh, it's just, that's more of a history lesson. It's just me, me being schooled by these, these kind of older, older people, you know, that were just like, no, there was an iron gate, Tim. You know, there was a gate. You need to stop saying there weren't gates. So, you know, I'm willing to be corrected. There's some weird stuff that goes with it, but nothing I could prove. There's like a story of a guy who was possibly hanged from the gate, but it's, I could

never find it, you know, prove it one way or another. Yeah, and then the creepy story about the doctor Yeah, yeah. Now that poor guy, that gate was actually outside of his house. He's, so this silly internet legend said there was an insane asylum back there that burned. I proved that wrong before I even wrote the first book. And then they changed the story and said there was a mad doctor out there that kept these patients in his home. Well, this poor guy, there happened to be a doctor that lived right out there. He lived right at the end of Toad Road. And, of course, he became the mad doctor.

And he was a good guy. He was in both World Wars. He did charity work for the poor and old folks around York. I mean, he probably was angry if kids were on his property a lot, like, that'll give you because he probably got tired of people coming out and, you know, hanging out on his property and stuff. His property, you know, he bought this property out in the boonies. He probably, you know, he had a young wife.

He probably thought, you know, he's going to retire there and have a nice, quiet life. And yeah, he probably both mad at people with trespassing and stuff. But really, he doesn't seem to be this mad doctor that these internet legends make him out to be. I think it's really sad that he got kind of bound up in that. Well, and I know that last part was vague for the audience, but I wanted to stop there because that's the part where I'm actually reading it. I'm really enjoying the book, and I hope people go to Amazon and get it. Again, it's called Don't Look Behind You Following Ghost Roads into the Unknown. Timothy Rinner, go to Amazon and just order Tim's books. They're well written. He does his homework. I really enjoy it. And I'm really enjoying this Don't Look Behind You book. I really am. And also check out Tim's podcast, Strange Familiar's. Great podcast. A lot of cool stories, stuff you never hear about on other podcasts. I mean, you dive into weird, like the Flannel Man and some of the weird stories. And if you get a chance, go to iTunes, subscribe and check out

Tim's podcast, Strange Familiar. Tim, I really appreciate it coming on. I always enjoy having you on. Oh, thanks for having me on. Thanks for letting me talk about some of the weird non-Bigfoot stuff. But if people are into cryptids, there's other cryptid stuff in the book. There's Mothman. There's a dogman account that actually came from Stan Gordon.

He forwarded it my way and some other weird stuff like that. And a good bit of Bigfoot, too. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks again, Tim. Oh, thanks for having you on, Wes. And that's it for tonight. everyone, remember if you've had an encounter, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. If you get a chance, please check out Sasquatch Chronicles.com.

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