Sasquatch Chronicles - SC EP:522 "Bigfoot Research"

Episode Date: March 10, 2019

A few weeks ago I put a challenge out there to the bigfoot researchers to come on and give a presentation on this Bigfoot Research I keep hearing about. I think 2 individuals responded. Paul Graves is a researcher here in Washington State and he has agreed to come on and give a presentation on what Bigfoot Research evolves. Paul is great guy and I know John Bindernagel thought very high of him. What will you learn? You will have to wait and see. See Pauls work below: The Game Camera Photo Trackway NearSunnyslope, Washington State

Black thing go from left to right, and I thought, I'm going to die out here and no one's ever going to know. I couldn't believe what my eyeballs was showing me. I'll never forget how evil the eyes were. It was a horrible. I mean, I've never seen nothing that evil. It ran towards me at a rate that I can't even explain, turned and stared at me. And this look of, I just want to kill you. I want to say it was human, but it wasn't.

He was yelling at me to grab a gun, grab a gun. I was like, for what? He said, just grab a gun. And there's footprints all the way to the door of my house. It had went inside my garage all the way to the door. 911, what are you reporting? Get somebody out here. What's going on now, sir? That son of a bitch is about six foot, nine, I don't know.

Do you see him now, sir? Yes, I'm looking right at him. You're listening to Sasquatch Chronicles. Check us out online at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. If you've had an encounter, email me. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. Welcome to the show, everyone. Thanks for being here tonight.

Got a great show planned for you tonight. Can we be talking to Paul Graves. And I've been friends with Paul for many years. Paul's actually agreed to come on and give a lecture as far as Bigfoot research goes. So I hope you guys will be able to get something from this. You kind of have to bear with me. My whole jaw is swollen. And so anyway, that's a whole other story. So bear with me tonight.

But I'm excited to have Paul on to talk about some of the research. And I hope you're able to walk away with some information. If you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email address is west at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. Let's jump into it tonight. I want to welcome Paul. Paul, thanks for coming on. Hey, thank you, Wes.

It's good. Yeah, happy New Year, Paul. And, you know, back when I've asked some researchers to come on and talk about what they do, and most of the time I get blank stares from them. And I know you've agreed to come on and kind of give a lecture on it. And I know when I talked to the doc before he passed, he would always bring up your name. But if you would, Paul, I know you're here to kind of give a lecture on Bigfoot Reefs. research. So I'll let you take it away.

We'll be able to get through everyone, you know, of course, has their own way of doing. Me, coming from Washington State, I'm over here in north-central Washington, so basically two-thirds of the landmass of Washington state is over here with, there's like six million people in Washington and not even a million people over on this side of the mountains. So, you know, real rural, when actually where I live is back right up to the Cascade Mountains, they're literally right at the end of my street, the foothills start and go up, including wilderness areas, right? But one of the things what I did, you know, when I first started out, it was, it wasn't going out doing what people are doing today. I was interested in hearing the local

stories. There's a lot of people at Hunt, which in a lot of places in Washington is like that. But it was the story that I was really interested in. When I first heard my first story back in 1988 of a guy that saw what he was actually hunting and had walked off, his friend had dropped him off on a corner on a logging road. He walked back into the forest, so a quarter mile or so, and came upon this pond, and he looked across the pond, and there was this black thing in this, but he actually put it in his rifle scopes and watched this thing for 30 seconds to a minute, and he said it was kind of making a grimacing face and this and that, and he could not shoot it. I mean, you know, most hunters, they go hunting, they get a hunting permit for a certain animal,

and that's, you know, most hunters are good. You know, if you're going for bear or whatever, that's what you're going for. And he couldn't shoot it because it did look too human to them. It really freaked them out. And so after that time, I started, you know, talking and realizing there was more going on around here and really started digging in and trying to find my mom. Well, it's a newspaper six years. So I learned a little bit of stuff.

Start get a lot of stories, and that's what really interested me in, what the people were doing when the encounter happened. And so I had always based my that until later when, you know, I didn't think no one else was doing this stuff. I really thought, you know, for a while it was like a big secret. I didn't want to tell anybody either. It was like, okay, I'm going to be, you know, I can't let anyone know. I'm doing this in like secret, you know, research.

Of course, there was other people, and I learned that. And the first group of people I got involved with was some local folks. and I went actually to a BFRO expedition. And kind of saw what that was all about for a year or two and decided, now, that really wasn't my way of doing it myself. Some of the, not saying that maybe big groups of people you could be

because there is that curiosity factor. So, you know, I started looking at the reports. Well, people were having them, seeing them when they were camped in a campground or when they were hunting or if they're hiking or maybe on the edge of town they saw one near an orchard or in the foothills, you know, where were people seeing them? And so I based my work or, you know, trying to learn more about them on those locations.

And like one thing I've learned over the years for sure with these Sasquatches is they really do know as humans and they're, you know, we're pretty predictable. I mean, as much as I hike around the mountains and stuff, we're very slow, you know, when we hike. I mean, you know, animals just got us what as far as, you know, being able to travel about in the mountains. You know, we can only move so far, you know, and they know that. It's like there's a certain area where I've been going for years up by Mount Rainier. Some of your folks might know, and I'm very where there's a lot of activity. And so as humans, especially up here in Washington State, we have what's called them,

dispersed camping areas. And basically they're just like areas off a logging road where hunters or people have gone in and cleared out an area. And the ground is usually very bare because of people walking around. There'll be a fire pit. You know, it's a dispersed camping area to go. But these areas can be in Washington State, you can get deep, deep into the forest, you know, on a car where you don't necessarily have to hike. You can get pretty deep in. And some of these areas in the middle of a huge wilderness area. Over the years, I've started to kind of learn that we have what I call our human rooms. So there's areas where we've carved out these areas in the forest and they're campsites, and I call them human rooms. When we're in these human rooms, we do play music,

we laugh. We do all the human things that humans do when we go camping, right? And it seems like when these areas are very active. And it seems to me that, well, here you've got people doing people things. We're very predictable when we're in these, what I call rooms, camp Sasquatch. And so this particular area, there's a huge ridge that goes up right behind these camp areas. And, you know, it's surmised that more than likely the Sasquatch are coming down and their campers are doing, you know. And so that right there was showing me, okay, well, people camp, they're in these, areas. And the Sasquatch, when we're in these areas, they seem to be really, can be real vocal. You know, there's even coming in and do get out into the deep, deep woods a lot.

And one thing I've noticed when you do go into the deep, when you go into an airing camp there, it's either going to be super dead quiet because now you're in their room. You're no longer in a human room. Now you're in their room, right? You know, and you're deeper in. So it's either going to be. to be really quiet, or if you just happen to camp in a really odd area, which is something I do, I never camp like where people want to camp. People always want to camp on a ridge with a view or near water, this or that. And although I do camp near water, I don't camp right on the water. I'm usually a quarter mile away or something. But when you, so when you get into these other areas,

they're either super quiet or they're pissed off like a mother. And I've had that happen many times. It's almost like, you're in their air. Now they're really pissed. I have a number of really good, you know, encounters from people that I've talked to around here where people have actually been, had some pretty aggressive things happen to them. A couple people have been picked up. One guy got drug out of his tent. Another guy got picked up.

Taking down a little ravine before he was dropped. And then another guy was hunting, and he always just in something in the middle of night, jumped on top of this tent and pinned him down. It actually broke a couple of the ribs. But he was up there hunting. Who knows what he was doing, but he was in one of these areas that was what I consider, you know, off-grid. You know, he was deeper in the woods,

just camped up on a ridge somewhere. And, you know, it might have been that he was hunting that day and had shot his gun and maybe shot close to one or something. It pissed him off. Who knows? He was up there taking his deer. I don't know. But the, you know, the same thing.

story of this particular encounter was pretty intriguing by what really happened. And he literally said it was just no rips on the tent or anything. It wasn't a bear. You know, he said this thing, the pressure was like a train on top of it. He could feel, he could hear. Yeah, and I don't want to mess up your presentation, Paul, but feel free to go into any encounters you want to. I'm always fascinated by him. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I just kind of want to. kind of the difference with listening to eyewitness accounts. You know, what were the people doing? To me, that's more important than the stuff that's ever 10 years.

And, you know, I would rather listen to a real encounter and, you know, get the details from that than what's going on with what I call the fringe researching techniques that's going on today. You know, people going in the woods and doing the screaming and the banging or whatever, We're not saying that banging on a piece of wood is bad because I think that's actually a viable technique. I try to do things that people do. So I used to do a few screams now and then, but I do not do the loud screams anymore because of that little bit, one of my videos. But it's also called, like, what's that Westwood?

What happened to you? Tell us about that. Um, well, basically it's what the Native American Indians, people in a tramp. Same, same for a lot of, a lot of sightings, not just me, but, and then Paul getting zapped. I get up often to pee in the middle of the night, so this particular night I'd gotten up about three. And I just laid back down, um, in my tent. And then just shortly after that, I heard this, this is the first time I'd heard it. I've had this happen to me before, but this I heard. it literally sounded like a herd of elephants or something running up behind my tent.

I mean, I could feel the ground vibrate. It was just like this intense. And then it was just this most intense feeling. These aren't panic attacks or anything. It's a feeling that I've never had before. It's a very strange, scary, scary feeling. And, I mean, I literally, I had my, I mean, I'm there to research, and I literally could not move. I mean, an inch.

I was terrified. that I was never coming back. I basically dozed off shortly after what words are chirping, everything's fine. I'm like, I seem fine, but literally I experienced the night before was terrifying. And that happened three times at this particular area. So I don't know what that's all about, notes on it. And there's some theories to that. But again, you know, the Native Americans, you know, talked about the Sasquatch having its ability to kind of stun you. And I think it could be a temporary type of a thing.

You know, they do, we've had them come into our camps at 3 o'clock numerous times, and we got them recorded, brushing up next to the tent, doing all different kinds of things, crying sounds, all different kinds of sounds. So, you know, I was just thinking that it came in, and it was 3 o'clock, and I'd woken up, and it was in camp, or it was close to camp,

and it can temporarily put you into this certain kind of state, which, you know, it's known that other animals can do this too, especially when hunting. There's different ways they can do this, even with infrasound, which is a low, inaudible to the human ear sound that they can possibly use for hunting or stunning prey or whatever. So who knows? I'm not quite sure what's all that to that,

but I just know that it's happened, and it's very, very real. and it's a terrifying feeling. I don't wish it on anybody. But yeah, just getting, you know, the local stories and hearing about what people were doing, I went back to that as far as kind of, you know, the behavior traits, what I've learned from the eyewitness accounts. You know, I think that's important. Now, stuff that we don't know about them, obviously,

is where, you know, their social traits, where they live and sleep. And then, you know, at times I feel like I know nothing about them, you know. There's just something about it. So, I mean, at face value, what do I think they are? You know, I think they're much more humanoid than animal, although they do show animalistic traits, too. You know, so, you know, is it a leftover hominid? I was curious. So you go into an area and tell me about the actual research.

When you say Bigfoot research, what does that mean to you? I mean, you go into an area. I'm assuming you find the area because eyewitnesses have come forward. And I almost think I know the lake you're talking about. I don't want to mess things up for you, but I'm almost sure I know where it's at. So you go into an area and then what is it that you start doing? The thing that I tell everybody, other researchers, you know, I know, I know what to. Go out in the woods.

I go out like I'm going to go out any other time enjoying the woods. I do what I'm going to normally do when I go camping. I always take my guitar with me. As you know, I'm a lifelong musician. So, you know, I've always taken, like, since my teens, I'm 57 years old now, you know, and it's still part of my camping gear. Now, as far as the research and goes, yeah, there's tools now that we can utilize to help us, you know, maybe obtain some of this evidence or whatever.

One of the main things that I do is wildlife recording. I do have a third-generation night vision scope, although I usually use more to look at the stars than trying to look for Bigfoot because you can see some pretty crazy stuff up in the sky, too, with a third-generation night vision. Most people go in a little costly, but, man, you can see some cool stuff up there.

Things, you know, I was trying to take a tape measure with me. I usually, if I'm going to drive, drive to an area, like if I'm driving 100 miles from my house and I'm going to be away, I'll usually try to bring a little bit of extra hydrocal. Tracks are seeing a big foot, you know, and to get a good track is even more rare. So, you know, I never usually count on trying to find tracks, although I do find track ways from time to time. But like I said, most of the time, you're not going to find a print that's really castable that's going to really show anything that's going to show anything to anybody else.

but I do like bringing some of that along. And I own my own concrete business, so working with material like that is just kind of second nature to me. I bring some of that along. I bring a small recording device along for audio recording. And that's another thing that I do.

I have a recording studio here in my basement, so I've been able to download some pretty cool software for analyzing sounds do a spectrograph, and, you know, all animals have a Hertz range and what's called a voice print. And so once you take known North American animals and you analyze them long enough, you know what their hurts range in and their voice print, you can tell pretty much when you get a wildlife recording and you put it in a speculate the sound is, and you go, ah, well, that's, okay, well, that's this or that.

you know, I've heard people get recordings, and it'll be able to a whoop or something. You know, they're like, hey, check this out. You know, I got a whoop. Well, if you're going to post something, I feel, back it up with a little bit of some research work done on sounds that could sound like that, you know, and then maybe have someone look at it in a spectrogram

because that spectrogram is going to tell you what the Hertz range is. And there's some interesting things that we've, found definitely in the spectrogram where we think the Sasquatcher, the range, what they're using, and their voice print and stuff like that. So it's fun. It is, it's cool to be able to kind of look at sounds, look at sounds instead of just hearing sounds. So that's something that I do also. And what is it? Another thing that I, or go ahead, Paul, sorry. Go ahead. No, no, go ahead. Oh, I was just going to say, well, it was just about location. You know, like you were saying, I, I do go to places

where, you know, there's been another happen or whatever. But, you know, areas that usually have a history or art, and, you know, you can do your own research. I see a lot of people. They all want to go to, like, scoop. So many places to go. You don't have, just because, you know,

sometimes it takes a while to fit around here. You know, you get to know the areas just from camping and hearing the local stories. And so, yeah, I do try to, you know, your actions, what you do, too, is going to make a bid on whether you get visited or not. research research, but also act like a normal camp are the most, the best that you can. And when you, the camp, try to be predictable going in and out of that camp.

Try to use the same way going in. A lot of people going to camp and then they just spread out like, you know, in a 360 degrees and look all around and that's okay. You know, you can look, but your chances of having something come in later that night, you're shooting it down because it's like one way over at the corner of your camp and you leave all the rest of it open all the time. You never go over there or whatever. You see what I'm saying?

You're getting your predictability down of what you're doing. And in return, in these certain areas up by this lake, they do come down and they visit certain camps. Well, and here's my question, Paul. And, you know, normally I'm not a huge fan of Bigfoot researchers for obvious reasons. A lot of self-inflated egos, a lot of nonsense, really. you're one of the good guys and I appreciate you coming on. But to your average listener listening, I don't really hear any research, but I hear a lot of hiking, recording sounds.

You know, when I think of research, I think of something like Jane Goodall, you know, going in and coming back with data. And, you know, when a lot of these guys record sounds or take pictures or it's cool, then they throw it up on the web. It's cool, but what do we do with that? I mean, where do we go from here? What do we learn from that? And, you know, I used to get criticized for just having eyewitnesses on. But in my mind, and I think you and I are on the same page, in my mind, you get so much more information. I've gotten so much more information from eyewitnesses than I ever have with Bigfoot researchers. But what do you do with all the data? I mean, what do you do with their audio? What is it that you learn from that? wildlife, or I mean, you know, people are so quick to want things right from the BFRO. You know, you've got to, if you want to see a big foot out in the woods, the best way is to act normal and stay in one place for as long as you can. Don't move around.

Stay in one place and be predictable. But as far as the research, you know, what do you do with it? Well, that's hard. You know, like, I want you to share this latest, well, it's not latest. I obtained back in 2012 in the Olympic Mountains after I, I made a fake rock out of these people's homestead that were having continued sightings and things happened, banging on the house. And I just now, it's 2019, I just had Chris Murphy, who I really respect. He does a lot of work for the...

I shared the photos, and I wrote up my report and shared it with him. He just published it, and folks, so they can look at that, and they can read kind of how I do my reports as far as when I write things up. on any possible evidence that I have. And I like, that's where I like to be real thorough. I guess I came from here with my mom, worked up in the actual world. And I just like to be real thorough. I think it's important when you're putting down details,

like if it was a trackware or whatever, you need to get as many photos as possible from different angles. You need to get measurements. And so the more data like that that you actually write down, And I know it's kind of a hassle sometimes, and a lot of researchers don't want to do that. But write that stuff down, kind of write it up in a report. It's going to be useful for later on when other people get stuff, then they can compare that to your report. I see so many people just posting pictures, like you say, just write off the bat.

There's not a lot of backstory or enough other initial information to let people really figure it out. Like just recently here, I'll just tell you something that just happened. over here in Medical Lake Washington, I don't know if you heard about the recent possible big footprints. Yeah. Well, yeah, it's kind of funny. So KHQ comes on and they're like, oh, yeah, well, this guy, you know, so here's a guy out walking, and then they came back and they said,

some residents, and well, there wasn't residents. It was one guy took a picture of these holes in the snow. And, of course, we've had a big snow year this year all over the state. And they were kind of staggered, but they were just these big, ugly marks. I mean, they kind of maybe looked like a footprint, but not really. They were really holy, and there was just like the one picture or a couple pictures, a little bit of video, but he didn't walk over and look down into the print. And pretty sure that it's a moose that did it, a moose bounding through the snow.

And you can actually see a leghole at the back of each of the marks. So, but they jumped right on the bandwagon. It's like these possible big foot, and then it goes all over the world, and people are like, oh, look at that. Those are great pictures, you know, and they're not even getting all the information, you know. They're getting like one or two pictures, and there's just not enough real information there to make an assumption one way or another. So, you know, I say just try to write down as many details as you can, even though they may not seem important right now. I might later on, you know, working with John Bendernegle, he was the same way.

He would put a lot of, write a lot of things down and keep it on the shelf. but maybe pull it off the shelf at a later time. So it's important to write down, you know, anything that you find. I always try to use the two piece of evidence rule, too. Like if I'm in an area and I find something like footprints or something, I try to see if there's other evidence also. Try to find two pieces of evidence. It's not always possible, but, you know,

whether you've heard something elaborates with the other stuff, I think, you know, the better. It makes me laugh about the doc. he used to always have this like this small pad of paper and a pen and he'd always be jotting stuff down just out of nowhere

he'd pull it out and start writing I'd be like Doc, what are you writing down? And it used to crack me up because I'd be like, what the heck are you writing down? You'd be like, oh no, I just got a thought I got to, you know, so it makes me laugh

that you brought him up because I remember him doing that all the time when I was around. He always had a little notepad and a pen and he'd pull it out to start writing like a madman. He reminded me a Colombo actually. He'd remember people.

Peter Fault, you know, and he put one hand up to his forehead, and then he'd be writing things down. But, yeah, so John wrote a lot of stuff up, and, you know, there are some good sites. I think this has some wonderful information on there in papers. You know, there are a few sites out there. I think probably the worst place, you know, to come out is the whole YouTube thing. You get both sides of the story on YouTube. You get hoax. It's hard to, you know, figure out what's real and not to, you know, to come out.

real anymore on YouTube. So I try to get people to maybe post their stuff in another forum, either by writing a real paper or a report and try to put it out in some other places other than just YouTube, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. Not that YouTube is all, but all this, yeah. Or go ahead, Bolli, I mean, Kyle, Sorman. You know, important, you know, because the more that we get on one story, for instance, then if that cooperates with someone that repeatable, constantly learning things. And that's why I wanted you to come on and talk about Bigfoot research, because I scoff at it because of what I've seen.

I'll give you an example. It's 99% of the time it's a guy in the woods filming himself and walking around and going, wow, it's swatchy out here. It sure is squatchy. Then they take their baseball bat, start beating on a tree. I'm like, when I look at that, I think, Do these guys realize the outside world is watching? I mean, I cringe when I hear Bigfoot researcher.

I just cringe because 99% of it is nonsense. 99% of it isn't research. I hate to break it to everyone out there. It's a lot of hiking. Right. It's a lot of camping. Yeah. And it's nothing more than that.

And so maybe I'm just being a dick and I'm getting caught up on. It's almost like it said with arrogance. I'm a Bigfoot researcher. I've been researching for 40 years. What does that mean? I remember one guy I said he didn't like it, and I don't blame him for not liking it. But I said, tell me four things interesting about Sasquatch. No one else knows.

You've been doing this 40 years researching, boots on the ground. I keep hearing about all this. Give me four things interesting about Sasquatch. No one else knows. Nothing. That was the end of our conversation. Because he didn't have anything. And so I guess that's where I get tied up.

You know, let me ask you, though, let's say you come across a dead one. What do you do? Let's say a guy out hiking comes across a dead one. What should he do? Oh, boy. This is in that situation, West. And that personally, you know, what anybody would do in any given circumstance. You need a piece of it.

This, and my first priority would be getting out of their lives. You know, these big foots, I don't think are really dumb. And I also think they do travel around. There's a lot of suggestion and evidence that they possibly do travel around in family units. So, you know, you got one big foot, you possibly got two. I just don't think they would leave their own laying around dead. I mean, it's kind of like a human, you know. We don't leave ours laying around dead.

You know, we try to find them and give them a proper burial in the whole nine yards. So it would be a pretty scary situation. and it would really have to depend on what exactly I had with me, my heli knife with me, but, you know, am I going to be, you know, does you know what time it did it? Would I try to get something, timing and everything? You get into doing something like, you know, and I, pestication, you know, and it's been ongoing, yeah, the whole big, like you said,

especially over the last years, you know, back in the 70s when Bigfoot was really popular, when they first started having some, seminars and conferences. Well, the speakers used to have to write a paper, you know, an actual scientific paper, right? You know what that is, an actual scientific paper on their

findings. And if you look at like the one that was up in Canada in 1970, it wasn't just all on Bigfoot. It might have been on, you know, the ecology of animals' behavior or whatever. There was just a lot of different interesting papers that people wrote. Papers were available to the participants. People want, they want vendors.

and they want this and that. So people go to these Bigfoot conferences, and usually it's what I've seen over the last five, ten years. It's the same five, ten people that talk at them anyway. And people are buying Big, people are buying Bigfoot dolls and trinkets instead of a video of the actual work. They're just coming and basically telling stories or whatever, you know. I mean, even professors that are into it, you know,

they're not really can say that. But for the most part, most so-called, researchers are just going and talking and they're not really presenting evidence in a proper scientific way. So I would like to see more of that. Like if I was going to have a conference, there would be no vending allowed. The only thing that would be available to the people of the work that the people that were presenting. Yeah, I understand what you're saying. I'm not trying to break your balls.

Please don't take it that way. I just, it's not you. No. Like I said, you're one of the good guys. No, no. Yeah, I was just explaining, you know, what I would do and what I've seen from this whole thing. I tried to do decent field work, and they documented the field work. And then, yeah, I really don't like when people use the word squatchers.

This is real squatchy or whatever. I know Bendernego wasn't a big fan of that either, because it kind of deems the whole meaning. It sounds idiotic. It sounds idiotic. It does. Yeah, it does. It's gotten really bad. We've kind of gone backwards on a lot of things.

Well, and the other thing, too, is you see a lot of these researchers or whatever titles they give themselves. And if you go and really look at what they do, 90% of it's arguing with other people or telling you who they hate or it's like a game show. You know, and it cracks me up because the Bigfoot world cries and cries and cries and moans about how, oh, science won't take us seriously. you know, if we can't talk about this or we can't talk about that or, you know, we've got to make sure science, what they don't realize, I'll break it down for everyone, science doesn't take them seriously because of how they act. Like, I'm not even a sign. I'm just a hillbilly. And I don't even want to conversate with a lot of these people, let alone I can't imagine someone who actually has a degree. you know, the doc was a little different as far as he was willing to do that.

And for the most part, he was very kind to everyone. But most scientists won't do that. And I think that's the biggest problem. You know, they run around, well, I'm a researcher, I'm a researcher, I'm a researcher. Well, define that for me. Explain this to me. Explain this research to me. And they can't because there is no research, really.

No one's truly, although I will say you're a trackcast. And I was hoping you go into that a little bit more detailed. And I'll post it to the blog again. But you found this trackcast and you went through and documented everything. Can you explain to the audience? Let's say someone finds a track cast. Or I'm sorry, I keep saying track cast, trackway. They find a track way.

How do they measure it? You talked about taking lots of pictures. Can you go into more details as far as what that type of research would include? Well, I'll tell you, that work involves when documenting this stuff. Excuse me. It took, like I said, up the five days totaled me. One day, the next day, tracked it part of the way the first day, next day, documenting, taking pictures, taking video,

while all this is coming in kind of full bore at you, full board. So, you know, you've got to, you definitely sometimes miss things when you, when you're trying to document everything. But for me, it was about documentation. It was like, you know, these tracks are not going to be here forever. They're in the snow. They're going to melt. You know, for me, it was taking as much pictures, video,

writing down, taking my tape measure, and getting a step length, which would be from heel, from one foot, heel to the next. And then there's what's called a stride. A stride is from the same foot to the next foot. So it's actually two steps. The width, the length, the depth, you know, when it snowed last, geography, there's all these things that, you know,

you might not think that aren't important, but they are. And, I mean, it's rare to come across something like this. You don't come across trackways, good trackways, very much. Someone might come across one good one in their life. You know what they're lucky. Seriously. Yeah, and that was a good one too. You know, and that's the other thing.

I mean, these things are rare, you know. They just, there just seems like, you know, when I hear about, you have a different, I guess, outlook when you're out here in the Pacific Northwest because it's like, dang, there's a lot of, you go, there's a lot of territory around here. And anything could be here. But then when you hear about these reports back in Ohio, for instance, it's like, where are they going? going. You know, I mean, there's farmland there, and sure, there's little waterways and all this and this, but, you know, it still really makes you scratch your head. And that's, that's where, it's like, is there something else going on? I don't know. I just know that the Sasquatch really use cover a lot. You know, if they were just magic and could disappear anywhere, will they be walking downtown L.A.,

wouldn't they? You know, but they don't, and we don't see reports there. they seem to be in rural area still and in mountainous areas, although, you know, we have them over here in desert areas, too. That's one thing with my western Washington friends kind of find hard to believe where they just maybe don't understand it. You know, you look at the Olympics, it's like people go, oh, that is so squatchy in there. Well, you could say the same about some of the shrub step habitat around here, too, because there has been sightings in it, you know. basically it's any geographical area that we're not. They utilize those areas. So they're definitely desert areas in Washington State where they're traveling through, too.

And where do you think that they go? Because, you know, something that big you would think we would find it, but we don't. Do you have any theories as far as where you think they go? For different reasons. I think the main reasons would be food and medicine. You know, of course, they're getting their medicine from plants like the Indians did. foods are in certain areas. Wintertime, the deer are down lower, so they could be coming in.

And also, one of the main reasons I think that we see them in strange areas is the gene pool. I think one would walk to New York City to get late if it had to. You know what I mean? I mean, they're going to go a long ways. Some of my Indian friends talk about that, too, and they're pretty adamant saying that they do travel up and down the West Coast farther sometimes than people, realize, you know, they can go 100, 200 miles like it's nothing. But, you know, what do, what do, kind of almost sounds like what we do? What do we do when we do when we travel around? Well, we get in our car to go to the store, to get food. We go get our medicine a lot. And we go get in

our car and we go visit relatives, you know, so why wouldn't something like a saskwatch move around, you know, for that reason? Um, yeah, and I don't think there's, there is, depending on And you kind of alluded to it earlier, Paul, but so you think they're human, more human-ish, if that's even a little bit? Yeah, kind, I guess. You know, we're 96% DNA of that or less. This whole idea of this wonderful thing that we barrel many of them. But, you know, that's human.

Yeah, I think we're really closely related to the other animals, so why wouldn't it be? And who's to say what the cross line is? You know what I mean? It's like, who's the boss of that? Oh, well, this is an animal, but you're not. You know what I mean? And actually, now most scientists don't even think there's a Pognit family that pretty much, you know, we as humans are in the same family as all the great scientists.

Really, if you do your research on that and you look at that, and some people might disagree with me. but if you really look at it on a face value, really close, really, really close. You know, we're all made up of the same. So, yeah, it seems like the characteristics and some of the things they do seem to be human, but yet they are animalistic, too. You know, they've got animal traits too. But, you know, so to some humans. I mean, it's a lot of that, you know, with our technology.

But, man, the early humans, man, they were tough, man. Are you kidding me? The other question I want to ask you is, do you get any weird, And what do you do with them? What do you mean by weird? I'll give you an example. Eye glowing, not eye shine, eye glowing, prints disappearing, people who came to you and said, hey, I actually had Minespeak happen, and you walked away and go, I actually believe that guy.

You know, more of the weird, weird stuff as far as what people report. Yeah. Put mind on that. I think life's funner that way anyway. it's more interesting. You know, why keep a closed mind, man? Life's too short. You know, you've got to...

But again, that's the repeatability issue. If I had one guy come up to me and say, well, I had a big foot mind speak to me, you know. I'd be kind of bothered with it. But numerous, numerous, numerous people tell me that. And when they look at you and tell you, they're pretty straight up and they're not spooky people. And so you have to kind of think about that.

kind of stuff too. I don't just sweep it under the floor. A lot of people call that stuff woo or whatever. Paranormal, lu, supernatural, you know, paranormal. Paranormal. Paranoral para means part. Parat. So part normal. Well, why would you be

afraid of something that's part normal? So part of it you understand, but part of it you don't. Just to throw that part into something that, oh, I don't understand that. So it's crazy. Well, it may not be the case. It might just be something that we don't, you know, and that's okay. I mean, yeah, it seems

bizarre for an animal, but I've heard it from Bigfoot researchers who came out and told me that, you know, and I'm like, well, why didn't you ever, you know, but it's always kind of, hey, I need to talk to you over here type of thing. And I'm like, well, why don't you talk about that? Well, science won't take us serious if we start talking about that. And I'm like, you're chasing unicorns in their mind anyway. But you know what I mean? Like, well, What are you worried about? Yeah. It is bizarre.

Not always, they're pretty rare. I don't get weird reports as much as you might think. But the eye glowing, I get a lot. Have you ever gotten any reports like that, Paul, reported to you as far as where it wasn't eye shine? And what's your take on that? A lot of sightings at night. And, you know, some of the eye shine is not from having light shined into it, you know.

As you know, some eyes can shine having reflective light in it. But these just seem to. almost glow on their own. And I know that they've gone from, they've gone from a bluish white color into an orange color and then into a deep red color, almost like, you know, they're doing their own thing.

So I'm actually involved with some other folks that have about this lately, about this eyesight thing. And one of them was saying that it's possible, you know, that it was possible that it was some kind of, of a communication thing between them, you know, but who knows? You know, I mean, that's just someone's theory again, throwing things. I just know it does happen a lot, so. Yeah, and I'll post your trackway video, Paul, and links to some of your other research

you've done, and I really appreciate you coming on. Paul and I are actually good friends. It would have been a lot funner if I didn't like them, but I actually respect Paul a lot. Paul, what do you think it'll take to change the Bigfoot world? As far as the self-inflated egos and just all the ridiculousness of the Bigfoot world. I've 10 years, and I still believe there's really two Bigfoot communities. You know, I work, I'm in an email chain with some of the bigger, older school guys that work around the world and have done things.

And, you know, my friend here, John Andrews has been, a lot of people don't hear about that much, but John's been researching over 50 years. He's actually a really good artist, too. one of the better bigfoot artists, but he doesn't number of people like that that are really, really low-keyed and are just good people. And I said, just really Bigfoot on the bill can gather information, you know, if things, or following up on reports. And so, you know, I still think there's, we see the bad end of it because of our quick tech. It's easy just to press a button, boom, you know, you're on YouTube or you're on Snapchat or whatever it is. And so,

but there's still a lot of really good researchers out there. They're low-key and that are going out and doing things, other Bigfoot community, the one that got kind of happened. The 99%? Yeah, the 99%. And they're all, like you said, they're all kind of fighting among each other.

These new groups, and some people get me in the group without me. There's no backup. Yeah. No, I know what you're saying, Wes. Yeah, and I laugh at some of those. You know, it's, people say, you know, Sasquatch won't harm you. Look, I got all these pictures.

And, you know, I would say, well, your treat stumped won't stand up and rip your arm off and beat you with it. You know, so it's, you know, I really wish for anyone listening, they would do kind of what the doc did. You know, he put together some of the coolest videos of what I would call research. Some of the cooler ones, you know, and I've sat there and watched them all. Not because I love the doc, but. I sat there and watched him, and I walked away with a lot of stuff. And I would hope a lot of guys out there would kind of, obviously, you can't replace the doc. You're not going to copy them.

But take that model, you know, if you're so worried about science taking seriously, present something. Let's see it. Let's see what you have. And I'm not saying, like, your best video. Because, you know, the doc, when the doc put that together, he didn't show videos and like, here's my evidence. He would give a presentation on it. it. And all these guys want science to take them seriously. Well, if that's the case, put something together. Because most of the time, it's how much you hate this guy or they hate that guy or they can't

stand this guy or this guy's a hoaxer or, you know, on and on and on and on. It's like at what point are we going to be talking about Sasquatch here? Because I don't hear anything about that. I hear your own personal gripes with other people. Show me something. When I get pictures out at the end, in fact, he told me what video software he got. I'm in the way to be able to make my own videos and present them. But, you know, John presented them in a good way, the way that he wrote them up, like you said. And that's what people need to do. And there's other places to post these other than just like in the Bigfoot groups.

I would suggest places like the Sasquatch Canada website. They kind of just tend to stay more with the, comes along with it. But, you know, then you've got people on YouTube that are the so-called now. They're the one of the newest videos that he analyzed is this so-called Russia or something. Have you seen that, Wes? I have, yeah. There's a picture, and he's showing, like, oh, well, there's a big foot. First of all, he said the trees were only 20 feet tall, and those trees, they're taller than 20 feet tall, guaranteed.

I mean, I'm not sure how he came up with that. But if you look at the beginning of the video, there's just tons of logs all laid out right in the front of the trees are on top that are getting pulled up. But on the foreground, the mountain goes down and the logging land. And it's more than likely a bunch of feller, you know, which is a machine that can come up and grab a tree. And this was in the wintertime. I'm thinking maybe it came up and shook the tree a little bit to get some of the snow off and then was cutting the trees. But, you know, you can actually see in the video what looks like a machine, but they're calling it a Bigfoot. You know, and I'm just, to me, I don't know.

You almost kind of got to go with what's more logical. You know, how many videos do we have of a Bigfoot? You can't even see the Bigfoot yet. They're calling it a Bigfoot. And so then, so he's got all his millions of followers. And they're like, oh, great work. Oh, I love you, you know. Okay. Yeah, I agree with you.

I think in that video it was logging, but I think, you know, thinker Thunker does do good work. And I don't think he is a problem in the Big Fort world. And I didn't think her thunker either. No, no, no, no, it was a good example. It's possible that he's done some good work also, too. I'm not, you know, it's just, you know, that's one guy's opinion when they're doing these analyzers, you know, when they're analyzing a video. Anyone can analyze a video and say what they think it might be. You know.

Yeah. No, I agree. But Paul, I appreciate you coming on and sharing it. You know, very few researchers would actually come on and give a presentation. And I'm so happy that you did.

Thank you so much. Oh, yeah, man. You bet. My pleasure. And thank you. And yeah, look forward if you can.

Put that, my latest report is this game cam picture. I got 2012. And again, I just didn't run out and post it. You know, it's 2019. I did post it on one of my podcast.

that I did it dallas years ago, but you've got to dig through my talk to find it. But, you know, I've never really released this in a public, because I knew it was an ongoing investigation. It was just, it was, I'm, you know, me being a musician, I always think outside the box with this research. And so that was just kind of one of my ways of thinking outside the box with coming up the idea of this heavy rock in case of the camera. And I think I tricked it for a split second because basically it came up the ravine,

poked its head up, and then one, you'll see. on the camera and one second later it went down and it just caught just a little bit of it in the bottom corner and then it's gone. I think it's pretty compelling. It's definitely interesting if you put the report up for your viewers to see it. I'd like to hear some feedback what they think too. So thank you, Wes. I will. I will definitely post it. Thanks again, Paul. Hey, thank you. Have a great day, man. And that's it for tonight. Everyone remember if you've had an encounter, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquodronicles.com and check out Sasquodronicles.com. You can become a member and get additional

shows. Until next time, everyone. Being across the country faster than the coronavirus and wagering week is your antidote. I'm Tom Barton and I'm a veteran sports analyst and respected sports handicapper who will help build ESPN's brand. I've been recognized and awarded by Pro Football Weekly and Gaming Today magazine as the honest handicapper. Let the other guys give you the same old boring sports talk with the same tired storylines. We'll give it to you straight here every Friday on wagering week. Don't gamble with other podcasts.

Let SportsGuard Network's Wagering Week help your bottom line.