Sasquatch Chronicles - SC EP:54 Ape Canyon Sasquatch Attacks!

Episode Date: October 13, 2014

"First of all, I wish to give an account of the attack and tell of the famous incident of July, 1924, when the "Hairy Apes" attacked our cabin. We had been prospecting for six years in the Mt. St. Helens and Lewis River area in Southwest Washington. We had, from time to time, come across large tracks by creek beds and springs. In 1924 I and four other miners were working our gold claim, the Vander White. It was two miles east of Mt. St. Helens near a deep canyon now named "Ape Canyon" — which was so named after an account of the incident reached the newspapers" - Fred Beck   We also speak to a Police Officer who investigated a bigfoot attack on a person. He also discusses some strange calls he has been on that were Sasquatch related. The final guest talks about two encounters he has had. One of his encounters is very disturbing when he came face to face with a Sasquatch.

Precision medicine holds great promise for treating genetic diseases, such as certain types of cancers. To drive progress, Harvard Business School Executive Education has developed a new program, accelerating innovation in precision medicine, which brings together leaders from business, science, medicine, and technology to explore new models for advancing personalized medicine. The program takes place on the Boston campus in September. Learn more by clicking the banner or visiting hbs.m.me slash precision. That's hbs.m.m. When I had come down this hill, I had seen this creature cross the road.

It would have ripped my locked door from my truck, extracted me from my vehicle, and there wouldn't have been a damn thing I could have done about it. This thing I got to notice in its eyes. His eyes was real, real evil, real sinister looking. You know, the look it was giving me. What are you reporting? One now, sir. That's the start of a bitch is about six fucking right here.

Welcome to Bigfoot Hot Spot Radio, Sasquatch Chronicles. I'm your host, Wes, along with my brother Woody, and researcher, author, and friend, William Jeffey. Let's start the show. July, 1924, 2 miles east of Mount St. Helens in Washington State. Five miners' lives were changed forever. Fred Beck and his associates find tracks and begin arguing. The five-year-old. miners were stalked and harassed by an unknown creature when traveling from their mine to their

cabin until one day they came face to face with the creature. One of the miners raised his rifle, took aim, and fired. It was a decision he would later come to regret. Few stories become legendary. This is one of them. In an act of Revenge, the creatures returned that night as the miners slept. The creatures threw rocks and tried to get into the cabin. They came at the men from every angle, including the roof. The creatures were everywhere. The miners fought back, firing anywhere and everywhere.

The attack lasted through the night. Just before dawn, the creatures broke off their attack and left. All five miners, along with their cabin, survived the attack. Moving debris and exiting the cabin, the men try to comprehend what had happened that night. The men made a pack, never to speak of this, to anyone. A story eventually got out. Where the attack happened is today called Ape Canyon. In 1960, 1976, and it's on the north side of the cabin was located.

What's the state of the cabin in now? There's nothing there. There was no sign back in 1976. The account itself was pretty interesting. I don't know but years ago where they really had a lot of the details wrong of that account. But on the way to the cabin on that particular trip, they had found tracks along Lewis River. And the guy he names as the pseudonym Hank, the head of their party, was actually they kind of, they did shoot at one of the creatures that was watching them near a tree. They knew they hit close because the bark flew off the tree near the, near the creature.

It took off, and, of course, they, you know, there was a bright moonlight night, and there were, you know, a couple inch gaps. They could see, clearly see these, they estimated, and it never actually reached. Yeah, it's a fascinating story. You know, a lot of people, I think, think that from what I read from Fred Beck's account, is that this thing had been stalking them and kind of harassing them, and they kept finding the tracks like you were saying, Will. The tracks themselves were, what, 19 inches long?

Yeah, I believe they were in that range. So, fascinating, fascinating story. I might do more of those. I'm kind of working on the Teddy Roosevelt, the Teddy Roosevelt's encounter. Yeah. Talk to the web developers today and I've been working hand-and-with-them with them, trying to get the website up and going.

And we're shooting for November 1st, but I think it'll be up before then. I'm pretty excited about the website. I'm excited. You know, I'd like to do more things like the ape canon story, kind of telling the stories, add more type of content like that, and have the time to create stuff like that.

So it's more of an enjoyable experience for people to listen to. But the website itself will should be up here shortly, and I'm pretty excited. as we get closer to November 1st, we'll be giving people the website address. And so I hope all of our listeners out there who enjoy the show. I hope they go out and sign up and support us so we can keep doing what we're doing and provide information and create a better listening experience for everyone. There will be a lot more than what we have initially on there, of course, is the Go Live Day.

Yeah, I can't wait. I'm pretty excited about it. I cannot wait until people. I'll see it. Yeah, it looks pretty good, doesn't it? Yeah, it looks sharp. I want to welcome to this show, Jack. We had Jack on previously.

Jack's actually a special investigator for the police department. And we want to bring Jack back to the show to discuss some strange occurrences. You sent me a piece of information about a call that you received recently. So I'm just going to go ahead and let you talk about that. Yeah, I got a... Well, let me go back to a couple weeks prior to that, or at least a week prior to that, or something like that. It was a week to 10 days. You know, I was doing a report, sitting alongside the road, working on my NDT, which is the onboard computer in our patrol units,

and I hear three whoops right in a row, and they weren't very far from me. Like within five minutes, I hear three more, and they're way further away. So I'm thinking, nah, you know, can't be it. So I just kind of blew it off. You remember I was telling you about. Right. So, you know, here about a week ago, I get a, not even quite a week ago, I get a call for service, possible home invasion.

So, you know, I show up, me and my partner do. We were another county guy show up. And we're walking up to the house. And, you know, it's an older couple. And the older couple's kind of a little wigged out. And I said, well, you know, what's happening? Well, this old man said, you know, they've been in bed a couple hours. And this is like one in the morning.

So he said, we've been in bed, you know, several hours. And all of a sudden we hear a crash in kitchen. Of course, his wife stayed in the bed. bedroom and he walks out in the kitchen area and he's looking around there's broken glass all over the place he goes out and he's he's looking out through the broken window and then he goes out the front because you're going to walk around see if you know if it was somebody threw a rock or something well as he's standing on the porch it kind of looks around and as he turns to his to his right he said there's big hairy arms wiped down at he

and it was about, he was about seven, seven and a half feet, he took tall. So, you know, kind of buggered him a little bit, and he took a step back, and this is not a young man. This is an elderly gentleman probably in his late 70s. So he takes a step back, and the thing's just kind of looking at him, kind of weaving from side to side a little bit, and turns around and walks across the road, down into a drainage ditch, and back off. into the in the woodsy goes. Well, you know, by that time, his wife's already called 911, and then we get dispatched, and we, you know,

we were there in short time. I mean, I was just around the cornerstone when I got dispatched. So we get to looking around. We didn't find any blood, but we did find a rock about the size of a softball. And he's like, there's no such thing as this. but there just isn't. And I'm like, yeah, there is.

Kind of leaving that to decide, I said, okay, I guess I really did hear what I thought I heard. Here just the other night, I had taken my lunch break, and there was an Animal Control Officer there. And I've known her a while. She's pretty decent person.

She's telling me about a call that she got called out on. And I said, okay, you know, Animal Control Officer's calls her like, Chihuahua walking down the road. You know, okay, why does this interest mean? And she said, no.

She said, I get a call for a dog fight. Well, that seems to be the predominant. One of the issues we have around here is dogfights do occur. And it's usually humans inducing the dog fights. So I said, okay. And she said, we get out to this vacant lot, got an old abandoned trailer house on it. and we're looking around. Neighbors, one heard it.

We get into the back of the trailer house, and there's about 15 or 20 dogs laying out there, and they're just all beat the hell. A couple of them are ripped apart. I said, okay, are these just, you know, was this like a gang, you know, a gang pile of dogs? She said, no, I think it was a feral pack. and what concerned us was is that a couple of them had their jaws ripped part

and I said what you mean she said it's like somebody had taken their hands and just ripped their jaws into the other ones were just just totally beat up you could tell that they had some severe internal injuries that's something that just normally happens to a pit bull right no no and that was a law thing was of that, you know, when I'd asked her, I said, well, what kind of breed were these? She said, these were pit and pit crosses. And she said, that's, you know, it's not uncommon to define these, these feral packs are, you know, pits or pit crosses is the predominant breed. But these, I mean, these dogs were beat up. So, you know, next morning I'd call my boss and told him what had happened. And I said, I'm just going to kind of check into this because this is, I mean,

this is right next to my jurisdictional line. It's in my ETJ, my ex-territorial jurisdiction. So as I got to looking around and got to investigate this, ran into the animal control officer, she would talk to me about it. And I said, what hell is that? I can't talk to. Prior to me, you know, cutting loose from her the other night when we were eating dinner, she said, you know, what's the Fed showed up and run everybody off? I said, what do you mean? Fed showed up.

She said, they were like BOM officers there. There was Border Patrol there. She said, I thought there was B-EA there. They basically run us off. I said, okay, well, that's kind of odd. Well, sounds like an unlikely combination for a dog fight. Exactly. You know, something just really didn't,

because as soon as they found the dogs, they called it in saying, hey, look, we need a hazmat crew to come out here, and we've got to start scooping these carcasses up. One or two carcasses don't handle, but if they've got a bunch of them, they call in a hazmat crew because you don't know if you're running the rabies or something like that. So anyways, I get to investigate and ask her about it at the end.

She wouldn't talk about it. Well, I get a call from my boss saying, you need to come in the office. So I'd beat people back to the office, and you said, her boss called me. You need to quit asking her questions. Well, you don't tell a cop that. You just don't tell the cop that.

We're going to find out what the hell is going on. Come to find out, went to 911 dispatch. 911 takes are missing. And we're supposed to be all digital. So it's stored in a server. There was no 911 call. I did find out who called in the dog fight and talked to them. They said, yeah, it was, you know, one minute it's all quiet.

Next minute it sounded like, you know, Fallujah in 2005. It was just, you know, it was just one massive fight. And we got a little concerned because, you know, we got kids in this neighborhood. I said, anybody else come around? They said, well, there were some people come up. asked question, you know, and they were in suits. I said, what do you mean suits? I said, they were in business suits.

I said, okay, well, that's odd. It's not unusual to have DEA show up to something like this because of a drug aspect. A lot of drug dealers like keeping pits around for protection, you know, protect their stash in their, you know, their

hideouts. Right. But to go and ask questions of, you know, neighborhood residents is a little odd. So I got to doing some research where I'm at. There used to be a hermit in 1880 that lived up in the mountains. He mysteriously had gotten, they'd found in debt, basically, is what happened. And he'd been there several years. lived in a cave

actually kind of left everybody alone. You know, he's just one of those you know you don't mess with him he won't mess with you everything's good you know

and a lot of the local farmers would take him stuff to eat but that's how they found him they found him dead and he didn't have any bullet wounds or stab wounds

he was beat to death and they found him just right outside his cave we've had several missing people over the years one of the big ones was the Fountain Disappearance. Colonel Albert J. Fountain and his son Henry come up missing. Now, there was a strong argument to be placed on that it was foul play by a bunch of cattle wrestlers

because he was special prosecutor for Lincoln County. Lincoln he got his writs but like I said there's a strong argument to be made that it was

filed play but it's they couldn't find anything they found Colonel Fountain this is in 1898 when this happened they found

Colonel Fountain's buggy they found his horse they found you know his Belice they found his his

his kids' belongings, but they didn't find Colonel Fountain or his son Hank. What I mean, they disappeared? They disappeared. No trace whatsoever. Now, two guys were brought up on charges, but they didn't have any proof that they were even anywhere within the vicinity of where Colonel Fountain had come up missing. So they never got convicted. And then several people thereafter, there'd been disappearances through the years. Soldiers or, you know, service members, had come up missing, but nobody could explain why.

One guy here not long ago that broke down alongside the road, and they found his car, but they didn't find him. And nobody knows where he's at. So... It's an ongoing problem. It's an off and on problem.

It'll... You know, it's not like anything's going to happen right then. Like I said, it's an off-and-on problem. It's not it's not something that's continuous, like, from year to year to year. They may have something happen this year, and it may go for five years. Jack, it sure sounds like a lot of laws showing up for a dogfight.

I mean, you know. Exactly. And it's odd that, and that's the whole thing. I know DEA will investigate certain areas, known drug trafficking areas. And if there's a dog fight, then that, you know, build their case. But they don't normally go and talk to neighbors. Yeah. They don't normally go and ask, well, what did you see, what you hear,

you know, how many dogs were involved. Right. And, you know, in law enforcement circles, we'll call it totality of events. Taking in consideration, all that's happened. $6.911 case, lack of cooperation from animal control, especially after initial contact. Let me ask you, what was going through your head when you have an animal control person,

their supervisor calls your supervisor and tells you to stop asking questions? I mean, that seems really odd to me. What initially went through my mind was WTF. You know, I'm like, since when does a supervisor for animal control call, a cop's chief and complain

they're usually begging for our help especially if they think it's a you know especially a dogfighting that's when they get real concerned because they're not

I mean they're prepared to handle aggressive dogs they're not prepared to handle aggressive people and they don't have most states they're animal control officers don't, they don't use their

animal control officers in a law enforcement capacity. They tend to, well, they go pick up strays or, you know, they'll give somebody a written citation and not take care of your dogs. Isn't erasing 911 calls a felony? It is. It is. But if you're the fed that's doing it, who the hell's going to arrest you? Yeah. There's never been a follow-up on that, like, looking into where that call went.

You haven't heard anything? Well, you know, I'd ask my teeth about it, and I told him, I said, look, you know, I found the woman that had made the initial call, and she said, yeah, I called at this time, this is when it happened, and shortly thereafter, I'd seen the control show up, and then a short time after that, then there was, like, 15 cars out there, and in a couple of a-a-mast. and he finds it on. He's also, well, he's more pragmatic than I am.

He's like, you know what? Are you hurt? No. Did it hurt your pride? Well, not really, because I wasn't the one called out. Let it go. It just doesn't seem like an inappropriate response, though. Yeah, it really is.

You know, he just kind of take a step back going, wow, what is going on here? this has been beyond concerns. Yeah, it just seems like an odd, odd story for so much law to show up for a freaking dog fight. And the way the dogs, you describe them, you know, when dogs, well, I have a pibble.

And I love my pibble like, I love my children, but my children aren't listening, but I love my pibble like I love my children. And, but when dogs generally fight, they go after each other's, you know, usually it's a quick dog fight, then they decide who's the biggest baddest out of them, and then the dog fights over with.

Rarely do you see dogs, especially 15 dogs, all slaughtered like they were? It's just an odd story, man. It's just an odd story. Well, you know, like I said, you know, the totality of this tells me that something more is going on where I'm at than a lot of people want. let out. Old man getting swiped at by a big airy arm and a seven and a half foot eight-foot

tall figure standing out in front of his house. And he said it just barely missed it. Like just within inches. Did he describe the creature to you? Did he actually describe it? He said it was huge. He said it was the biggest.

He thought it was a man. And he said, there's no way it could be what I think it is. And that's the guy it is. And he said, but they don't swipe at people. And I said, yeah, they do. They'll take a swipe at you if they give a chance. And he goes, well, how do you know that? And I said, you know, I just know.

They're not the warm, fuzzy-feeling type creatures you want to think they are. They're territorial. They generally have a command presence. They don't want to be fussed with. They really don't like human contact. And you can't blame them. because every time they've had human contact, nine times out of ten,

especially in the past, it hasn't been very pleasant. Somebody's ended up on the wrong end of the set. He's like, but it was the biggest man I ever saw, and I said, I'm doing. It wasn't a man.

Men don't stand out in front of his buddies' house, 75-degree weather in a hairy suit. That's true. They're just not going to do it. I mean, I talked to the old man for about an hour. And he's like, it can't be. And, of course, you know, we're looking for tracks, and there wasn't.

It was zero-scape property. It was all pebble and hard dirt. So, you know, there wasn't any way to even look for a track. And, you know, there was three of it there. So with three officers going around the place, there was just no way to, it's so easy to destroy what tracks are was. And there was no definition track. So after it took a swipe at him, did it turn and leave or what happened after it took a swipe at him? He just stared at him for about, instead of like five minutes, we've been back and forth.

He finally just kind of turned around and walked off and walked back across the road. How many times we've heard almost that exact description where something will occur? Yeah, like they didn't have a care in the world. Right. It was one of the weirdest calls I've ever been called out on. and, you know, and I'd get my first share, you know, strange, you know, call out, you know, call for services. Right. But this one took the cake.

You know, this old man was pretty well wigged out. He didn't know really what to think about the whole mess. And he kept saying, there's no way. There's no way it could be a soft squash. And I'm like, yeah, it was. I'm the first one today. Yeah, it was. And, you know, had he talked to an officer without experience with this subject, you know,

it would have been just past probably. The guy's been drinking, or, you know, his heart medication, took a funny loop on him or, you know, whatever. They'd come up with some other excuse. But the minute he told me, he said, this big hairy arm took a swipe at me. And he said, when I'm mean big, it's big. It was a beefy arm. And he said, it just barely missed me.

And he said, it was just as I was turning when it took the swipe at it. And he said, it was just that quick. I said, wow. I said, so, you know, and I'd ask him, I said, do you think it meant business? And he said, well, you know, as fast as he was moving that arm, he said, you know, if he'd hit me, they'd probably kill me. You know, what's interesting is what makes you wonder what the intention was by breaking the window. And then secondly, why it would take a swipe at him like that. I think he was, my personal belief, I think he was trying to draw him out.

that makes sense? I think he was trying to draw him out. And when he missed him, he either miscalculated or he wanted to put enough fear of God in him that he was going to leave the area. That's the only thing I can think of us. And I could be way off time. Yeah, and then he kept watching him. Like, he just wanted to see what he was going to do.

Just real curious. Hey, you know, with these things, I got a friend in Louisiana that's kind of having an issue. poor soul. She's, you know, she's a single mom. She's got a visitor. I, you know, I rip her about it. Well, you know, he knows you're single. You know, your son's six foot, ten inches tall.

You might see your son as, you know, competition. That's why, you know, he's basically shaking trees and raising hell around your house. And she's like, hey, funny, I'm going to be, I ain't going to sleep forever. So I've got to get a real about it But, you know, she's having kind of the same situation for her She's got one of these creatures Set up residency right next to her house The thing's doing, you know, odd

Like, hooting like an owl When they're outside And it becomes a very vocal when it's just her When it's her and her son she can smell like a wet sweaty dog and she knows it's close. So, you know, I probably shouldn't rip her. Just trying to have a little fun with her, not fun at her, but fun with her.

And I need to stop because she's really starting to get scared. And I told her, I said, well, take it seriously. You need to. Because if you don't, that's when something bad's going to happen. Exactly, in that situation could turn ugly very quickly. Yeah, like within milliseconds. And I said, don't, I wouldn't go out in the woods by myself, personally. I said, I'd have two or three other guys with me.

I wouldn't go out unarmed either. Because your best defense is you. You know, and they know what guns are. They're not stupid. They may not know how the thing functions, but they know when it's pointed at them, it can go boom, and bad things happen. and don't, and she's like, well, maybe I ought to start, you know,

setting out some treats for it. Don't do that. Don't do that. Don't encourage that. Yeah, if you make it dependent on you feeding it and you don't, that's when it's going to get mad. My own personal belief is that I've already seen one even though it was dark. I don't want to see it again.

I don't want to, at damn sure, don't want to see it up close. you know, taking into account all that's happened through the years, Ape Canyon, other instances, you know, the Hanobia siege, they can get serious.

They can get deadly. Yeah, there are many examples. And do you really want to tempt a? I know, Jack, last time we had you on, we had to get you short, but I know we got to have you back because I want you to

talk about some of the Border Patrol agents and some of the other police officers that have had encounters. And I'd love to have you back on the show to discuss all that. Oh, I'd love to. I'd love to. Most people that aren't believers have generally not come in and have never really had any kind of contact with them. And they just hear stories and are like, all right, somebody's out there in the woods drinking beer

or drinking the bad tequila that they got from Morris. those of us that generally are believers are the ones that have come in contact with. Not too often do you find true believers that have never seen one. But generally when you have a true believer that's never seen one, they're like, oh, I want to see it. No, you don't. No, you don't. Trust me. No, you don't.

I know group members, because I was in group. I know group members that have come in contact with them, they don't ever want to see them again. I know guys in Delta. They don't ever want to see them again. They just should not ever be called out again to go after one. I know cops that have made contact with these things. And, you know, these guys had run into a burning building with a frigging garden hose. You know, they take on a grizzly bear with a hickory switch.

But when you bring this up, no, I think I'll stay home. I'll tell you something. Yeah, there's a good reason for that reaction. Exactly. There was a, oh, God, I was listening to a, well, this is several years ago, listening to a commentary about one of the guys that does this quite proficiently,

or I shouldn't say proficiently, politically. He goes out, we won't mention any names. Not funny makers. And, you know, you're talking about, You know, and Matt's probably a decent guy. He's probably a really decent guy. I just think he's so full of horse manure on some of his beliefs. Like, you stand a better chance of survival messing with C-4 with a blasting cap and decked.

And you're out in the woods trying to hunt this damn thing now. What are you going to do when the table's turned and the hunter becomes the hunted? Because that's a good point. finding Bigfoot, what are you going to do once you find Bigfoot? Well, the whole aspect is, and it's an old cliche, but you got a tiger by the tail at that point. I want to thank Jack for coming on the show, Jack. I really appreciate you coming on and giving us an update on what's going on in your area,

and I really do appreciate you coming back to the show. You bet. Thank you. You know, and that's the thing of that. This show, beyond all those, is probably the one that takes the aspect that these are not the malevolent, or the, not malevolent, but the benign, benevolent, thank you, benevolent, forest creatures that they are. I think they're extremely dangerous. They get a chance, I mean, they get a chance to put a hurt on you. will.

This is the only show that takes that aspect seriously. There's far too many of the other shows out there. Oh, yeah, well, he's probably just out there looking for apples. Bullshit, he's looking in your house. He won't feed you. He's looking at you like every next thing on the menu. It's KFC just through the reaching window. A self-serve smorgasbord.

I wonder if he's got me. hate us. Can you, you feel like a drumstick tonight? There goes your thigh. They'll rip your leg off and beat you with it. Yeah, it's true. No, thank you, man. We've got to have you back.

I want to have you back to discuss border patrol agents and some of the other law enforcement. Oh, absolutely. And here's the thing. And this is the one thing that you'll find out with law enforcement. we're really the only, I say law enforcement, city and local, county, state are the only ones that really kind of take this situation seriously. And it's sad when we're concerned about this, this could be a public safety issue.

And the federal government's out there taking 911 tapes, removing bodies of torn up dogs, come on. You know, if we got something going on here, we have a right to know. let's do this, Jack. Let's have you back. Would you be available next week if we brought you back to discuss some of them? Sure. Sure. Well, let's plan on it.

Let's mark it on a calendar. Let's bring you back. And I just want to thank you again for coming on, man. You bet. Yeah, thank you. I'll take care. It was awesome. Thank you so much.

You bet. Take care, guys. All right, buddy. Bye-bye. Next on the show, we have Chris. and Chris has probably one of the best encounters I've ever heard are you ready Shannon

I am so ready all right I want to welcome Chris to the show hi Chris how are you this evening good man great and West told me a little bit about your encounter what I'd like to do is just let's go back

this first encounter I've had to this first one was 10 years ago now I'm 21 I was probably like 12, 13 at the time maybe 14th. It will, you. There's, I live in Wayne, New Jersey.

It's up in North Jersey. There's like a summer camp that I do because I love nature. I love the outdoors called the outdoor lab. So we go there over the summer. Start in June, it would end in August. We go all over New York, New Jersey, some of Pennsylvania,

hit the big state forests, go camping, hit the trails and stuff. And there were maybe 20 kids to our group and we had like three camp counselors so there were three adults and then 20 of us kids 12 or 13 and um it happened let me ask you before before that day what what did you know about the subject of bigfoot none no no absolutely nothing i mean i hadn't entered my mind i had no idea that these things were existing i mean i the most i knew i was always obsessed with nature and stuff and animals So, I mean, the most I knew about, like, primates was seeing a gorilla on TV.

That was the extent of it at that age. I had no knowledge whatsoever. Okay. So tell us what happened that thing. So we went up to, this actually happened in Bermount in State Park, which is like 52,000 acres. So we're on a trail in that state forest. Lemon Squeezer, I think it's called. That was the hike basically in the center of the park.

So we were hiking all day. The bus would take us in to a certain end. entrance to the state park and we'd hike up whatever the trail was. And this was a pretty strenuous hike. It was like seven miles up a mountain and then a few another, a couple more miles on flat land once you got on the top. So we got to the top of the mountain, I'm guessing. I mean, and we took a break for lunch. There were still like three more miles left on the trail. So me and one other kid who I was desperately trying to get to come on the show. I didn't even know if you guys did double interviews, but I mean, he still won't. He won't talk about it. He's never told anyone.

and he thinks I'm nuts for even talking about it. I mean, but he was there. He saw it. So, so we and him snuck off to have a cigarette. I mean, you know, we were 13. We didn't know. We knew about bears and we knew they ran from people. So we really weren't scared of anything.

The camp counselor told us if we saw a bear would bowl. We saw a bear coming up, you know, a few other times in the bucks and it would just run. So we really had no fear of, you know, any animals up there. I mean, I didn't really, I didn't know mountain lines were even up there. That wasn't in my mind. So we start going off down the ridge to sneak a cigarette. We get like half a mile away from anybody, this whole group. And what was so amazing about this was like these things must have been either watching us or, I mean, there was 20 kids. So it was just like, I thought any animal at all would have scattered. So we were hiking another half mile away from

camp to smoke a cigarette. We get half a mile away. away and there's real thick woods on our left side that after we climb down the ridge, real thick woods, all deciduous pine trees. I mean, I didn't know what they were at the time, big thorn bushes. I don't know what kind. That was right to our left. And we heard something start walking. We didn't hear it enter the wood. It's like as soon as we came down and hit the wood line that was to our left, it was already there and it started walking next to us. And I thought, I mean, we had no idea what would be pacing us. We didn't think it was a bear. We didn't think, I mean, we thought it was a kid, like, coming to spy on us and go back and tell the camp counselor. So we're hearing

footsteps next to us. No deliberate cracking or anything. It's not loud. It's just walking, it's just walking, thump, some, it seemed like almost it was, it would stop in front of us. Like, it was, we couldn't keep up with it. Like, we were walking, and then it would get ahead of us by accident and stop. Like, that's what it seemed like. But it wasn't running, and we're just like how is it moving so fast? Like, that's what I was thinking. We didn't say anything. We were nervous.

So we walked for another 10, 15 steps. And when this patch of wood stops, it stopped. It stopped at the edge. We're looking back. We're thinking it's a kid who's going to go tell on us. I yelled, hey, no response. So, I mean, I still wasn't, like, scared at this time. I just didn't know what was going on.

I was 13. I had no concept of an animal stalking to me. I just thought it was a kid. We're like, whatever. So we There's a Maybe another five steps ahead of us There's a little

I wouldn't call it a cave It was an opening Probably a raccoon could sit under there So we turn We turn around that And as soon as we turned around that There was something already standing in the road I don't know if it had come out of the woods

On the right or what I turned the corners We didn't walk any further It was already in the middle of the road It was I mean now I'll say was a Sasquatch. The only thing I could think of was I was looking at a monster.

I looked at its face for three seconds and looked straight down. I could not look in its face. I mean, the face looked so scary to me at that time. I just, it was gray. I was looking at its waist. I was probably five, six back then. I mean, it had to be at least 10, 11 feet tall. The arms, the shoulders.

If I would have laid down, the shoulders would have probably covered from my head to my knees. The thing was enormous, enormous. And like what went through my mind first was okay, a bear, it has gray hair. And I couldn't even look, dude, it was, if I looked up at the face, I just felt like it was going to kill me. I couldn't look at the face. I looked at, he's already running.

He's gone at this point. Like maybe three seconds after we turned, he's gone, he's running. I don't know how he mustered up the courage to run. I couldn't move. I could not move. All I thought was I was looking at a monster. I was looking straight at its waist. So, I mean, and now the creepiest part is about this.

and in its left hand I had I'm going to sound crazy but it had a dog it had half of a dog I mean it was holding it by like the scruff of the neck I mean it was obviously dead it was half of the dog

there were no hindquarters it was the front legs and paws and the head and its eyes were open that that part dude gave me nightmares I mean like I was looking at the dog's face that's how tall this thing was.

Like, it was level, like, the dog was level with my head, my eyes. And, in its other hand, I didn't even, I didn't know what to make of this at the time. But now looking back on it, it can be only what I describe as an article of clothing or a blanket. Like, it was whole, like it had taken it from somewhere or something. I couldn't tell if it was a shirt or pants or a blanket. I didn't even, I was just fixated on, I didn't want to move my head, I didn't want to move my eyes. I was staring at the dog's face for like five seconds and I looked away. I was freaking out.

And this thing turns, takes one half step and looks back. I'm still not looking at his face. I'm terrified. I can't, I couldn't bring myself to look at his face. I couldn't. I was looking just straight at chest and pectorals and it turns its head back and then I just ran. Like it was, I don't know if it was waiting to see if I was going to go after it. but as soon as it took that step and looked back,

I could finally run when I gained a tiny bit of composure back. I didn't hear whatever was stalking us ever again. I don't know if it left the area or what, but I mean, I was shaking. I got back. What I can tell, listening to your guys' show is now these people that say it looked human. I know you've discussed the type 1 and type 2. I mean, it definitely wasn't human. It looked like a patty typeface, a little bit less hair.

but it was definitely an ape face. It was not a human face. I didn't understand when people used to say it was a human face. I mean, this was not a human face. It was a scary, glaring ape face. It wasn't a gorilla face. It was an ape face, but one that I'd never seen before, you know, or seen since. Like, it was just glaring at me.

I couldn't look in the eyes. I couldn't look at its face. I saw it for the first second, and it was still ingrained in my mind, but I couldn't look up after that. it's a small detail were you and your friend actually smoking before the creature no we didn't even get to light them up

so I mean I thought maybe the smoke would attract maybe would have attracted it but we never lighted them up never even lighted them up horses told us that one thing they learned was that smoking seemed to get a peculiar reaction out of these things

it's very interesting you know my second sighting was of a gray Sasquatch a really large one like that right and yeah and West had told me and I actually made a BFR. Yeah, he told me that too, and I made a BFRO report, not knowing anywhere else to go when I was 18,

and they were trying to change the story. Like, are you sure it was gray? I don't think it was gray. I was like, forget this, dude. Forget this. And I didn't even submit it. I stopped talking to them. I stopped answering their emails.

Yeah, those guys don't know. It was great. I know it was great. It was, yeah, it was gray, period, and it was huge. It was, it wasn't seven feet. It wasn't seven and a half feet. Like, the thing was 10 feet.

feet it was massive. Wow. Just, yeah, and it was just the dog, half of the dog just scared me. Like, where did it get the dog from? Like, you know what it was? That freaked me out. Like, where did it get the dog? Where did it get whatever it was carrying?

It was like, did it kill the dog's owner? Is it a stray dog? Like, that's what freaked me out a lot. Like, and how, we didn't. Yeah, like, this thing was under everyone's nose for how many years and nobody even knows they're there. It's just crazy. So many thoughts,

and it literally consumed me after that. You know, I had nightmares for years that I was in my hallway and this thing was going to get me and I'd wake up. But then after the fear died down a little, I became, like, obsessed with the subject

and it just, like, set in that. And I was just not, like, to go out all the time by myself because I was scared, but just reading stories and reading reports and researching the subject. It just consumed me. How much longer after your first disencounter was the second one.

Years and years and years. The second encounter was only last year. I mean, it took me for, I mean, being over here in New Jersey, like, nobody even would, like, think of talking about, like, and none of my friends, no one I know, would even think about, like, going out to, like, if I mentioned going out to try to get an encounter

where the Sasquots, they'd look at me, like, what are you talking about? And it's just more guarded up over here, I guess, because there's not as many wilderness areas. It's, you know, it's very populated. People are closed-minded over here. I mean, there are researchers, and there are areas where these things are,

the pine barrens, and then up where I had my encounter up in the Wyanokey Highlands, which is like 3 million acres that goes into New York and Pennsylvania. So this was probably 10 years later. And I started researching real hard 18, 19. I didn't discover your guy's show until a few months ago. I wish I had, but it was basically the farst friend bull crap. You know, that's all I was getting.

That's all I, like, that's what was available. So I thought they were curious and they were whatever, whatever. But in the back of my mind, I knew there was more going on because I'd seen one carrying half a dog. So, I mean, I knew they weren't as gentle as everyone put out, but I would lie to myself so I could get myself out in the woods. And I'd probably been out four or five times before this encounter, the same area. there's a town called West Milford and right up past there's woods, heavy dense woods

all the way into New York State and Pennsylvania so there's a big reservoir that I would go to and I finally convinced one of my friends to go out with me because I couldn't stay out overnight there's no way I was going to last by myself so we went out

I hadn't told them why we were going out I told them we're going to fish and camp for the night because if I told them what I wanted to do he would have looked at me with three heads So we went out, and I had actually been in this area three days prior in a row, because the natives up there call him Old Red Eye, or Old Red Eye, and that's where the legends come from. And Old Red Eye is obviously based on Sasquatches that were in that area,

and we still have the natives up there, American Indians, up there. So I had found the third day I went out to this area by the reservoir. You hike straight up a ridge and then flattens out a little, but it's past the reservoir. There was a dead bear with its head twisted 180 degrees and the hindquarters ripped off. Right in this area also, and this actually happened recently a week or two ago, there was, I mean, what they put in the paper as a bear stalked and killed a kid, and his friend was there with him. None of the quotes came from his friend.

His friend said they were being stalked by something, and he ran. He doesn't know what killed his friend. It was in the papers as a black bear attack, which I didn't speak out against because I look like an idiot because I have no proof for anything. It just seemed odd. They haven't given the body to the family, and black bears don't, black bears in this area do not stalk people. I mean, they'll run. There's no way a black bear would stalk somebody. So it was odd to me.

But this encounter happened in the year ago, in the same area where this kid, quote on quote was mauled by a bear a week ago so we're camping we passed the reservoir and there's a stream there's a I didn't want to camp

by the stream or the lake because I just had I don't know I had a weird feeling there were I mean all kinds of animals congregate over there I don't want to just stumble on a mountain lion

bear territory I mean the game board say there's no mountain lines over here there are so I mean I know not trust what they say but I just didn't want to camp And there's two ridges I don't want to camp in the middle of the ridges

By the lake, by the stream We ended up doing that Because it's easy to fish there And I didn't want to tell them If we're in the middle of a game trail Something's going to happen I don't want to freak them out So we ended up camping in between the two ridges

Past the reservoir And there's a lake stream that runs I've been out I've done whoops and stupid crap like that Before and knocks and you know None of the calls None of that ever proved effective for me I mean I'm sure they know

When people do calls they can tell a difference. So I figured we'll just camp out for the night, see if anything happens. All I did were two single wood knocks at the start of the night. And that's it. We just had sleeping bags, no tent, no lean to, nothing like that. So, you know, an hour or two after I did two wood knocks, and he's like, why did you just hit a tree?

I still wouldn't tell him anything. I was like, I don't know, just seeing what kind of trees are out here. I did a knock on a tree and knock on another tree. So the ridge to our left, there's a ridge to our left. there's a ridge to I left It's a little higher And a ridge to our right The first call came from the ridge

To our right And the only thing I can describe it as Was it sounded like a dinosaur It was a roar It wasn't a whoop It wasn't a scream It was a roar It was

And I told Wes before When we were on the phone That it sounded basically Exactly like I don't know if Will If you've heard the screams From Clipper Mills That that guy recorded with his wife

Yeah right Yeah I had come across those and I played him 20 times in a row and that was the sound that I heard it was a roar. It just shook me. I could feel myself moving. At this point I sat up

and I thought I maybe made a mistake going out there. I still wasn't that scared. It was on the ridge. I mean, this ridge was a good hundred yards away. And the one on the left was the same. So I was like, okay, it's on top of the ridge. I don't like to jump to conclusions. I know it wasn't anything I'd ever

heard before. I know it wasn't a bear. I'm like, unless there's a giant dinosaur in New Jersey, it counted like a huge male male Sasquots. Like, that's what it sounded like. That's all. I mean, I'd never heard one before, but it was a roar. He sat up.

You didn't know what the hell was going on. He just looked at me. I'm like, don't worry about it. I mean, at this point it's almost like surreal because there was nothing else, we knew there was nothing in the woods that made that noise. He didn't know anything about this subject, so he was a little spooked. So I laid back down.

My eyes are open staring. I mean, I thought maybe I'd made a mistake coming out here now. It's me and him alone. There's no people for miles, and this thing just shook us. And then, from the ridge to the left, we hear a scream, and it wasn't a roar. It was a scream.

So, at the time, I'm trying to go through my head, it sounded like one of the Snohomish-Washington recordings, but I mean, if you're there, I can't, I'm trying to portray it to you guys, like, how loud it was. I mean, if you've heard it, then you know, We've heard it. I can't really do it.

All right. Yeah. You show you. That's why, yeah, you guys know, I can't even do it justice. Like, how loud and just blood. Like, there's no animal. There's no animal. There's no other animal that can make that noise.

Yeah, there's no comparison. There's no. There's no. And when people ask me, like, was it a bear? Was it a mountain? Like, I look at them and I'm like, how, like, how could you even ask me that? But then again, they weren't there to hear it, so I don't blame them. You just can't portray it unless you heard it.

So, just like when I try. I described what I saw when I was 12 or 13, people just can't grasp it. And I stopped trying after a while because there's no way I can portray. There's just no way words can portray what I saw. Yeah, let's be experiencing that you can't relate it. Exactly. And, you know, these researchers that ask me a million questions from the BFR, I was like, I mean, they've never, I don't know.

I just feel, I'm not saying you have to see one to be interested in the subject, but you just, you're not on the same level as you can't, you can't connect. with what I'm saying unless you've seen it. Exactly. It's just, you know, you guys, it's not, that's why I wanted to talk to you so bad, and I wasn't trying to be a dick to them. It's just, I can't, I can't deal with it.

Unless you know what I'm talking about, we can't have a conversation, we really can't. So, the scream, the scream comes off. Now I'm scared. I'm like, I'm like, how could this happen to me when I've seen one of these things? How could this be happening to me again? It's like getting struck by lightning twice as more,

like more likely than having two encounters. I'm still trying to play it off my mind. I know there's nothing else that could be. It almost just, like, it scared me to the point where I was having an out-of-body experience. I was just sitting up, I was just sitting up staring into the distance. He's getting scared. He's panicking. He doesn't know what to do.

He sees me just staring out. And what I'm guessing was the female that screamed, we hear start walking towards us. I mean, the ridge was, and it was walking. We heard it walking from that far away. It had to be 100 yards. This thing covered 100 yards. Before I knew what was going on, it was, it stopped 10 feet away from us, and it was pitch black. He's getting the flashlight down.

I'm like, please don't shine the flashlight. I had a feeling if I shine the flashlight, it was going to come out and rip us to shreds or the one that was up on the ridge behind us was going to run down and rip it. I just didn't want to shine a light. I'm begging him, don't turn the light on. I still can't see the one that just came down on us, which I'm guessing was a female, I don't know. It sounded way different than the roar.

It was a scream. So that stands there for five seconds. We're staring. We're like, I don't think it's going to do anything. He still doesn't know what it is. Five seconds later, the one on the other side comes charging down. And I told Wes this, if I say it was like an elephant coming down, I feel like it was even more than that.

I feel like it was like two elephants coming down. I don't know. It seemed like it was deliberately ripping shit out of the ground as it was running. If it didn't stop, it would have ran us all. It would have popped our heads with its feet. If it just kept running straight, it would have just ran us over. Or it would have ran out and, I don't even, no effort at all.

It would have tore us and a half. I mean, the size of it, like what we were hearing. So it comes charging down. And as soon as it got close to us, it was like amazing how quick it stopped. It's like a car coming to, I don't know, coming to a hole, even a car skids. I don't know how this thing just stopped.

It just, it covered from the ridge all the way down to the camp, and it stopped right out of sight. So I'm looking down to him. I can tell he's almost about the cry. He doesn't know what's going on. I know what's going on at this point. I don't want to freak him out. And as soon as I turn away from him and look,

look back up the things in view. There had to be half a moon. I mean, I could see it. It was one of those nights where, you know, if there's snow on the ground, everything's lit up and you can basically see in the dark. Right. Like, it was almost like that. I could see, I could see well if it was close.

But once it got, once, like, maybe 30 feet went out into the woodland, it was, it got pitch black. But I could, this thing was close enough that I can see it. So as soon as I looked up, I saw how. half of its body. I don't know if it was as big as the one I saw when I was 12 or 13, maybe because I was smaller back then. It seemed bigger, but I still know it was gigantic.

It had no breasts. It was gigantic. The shoulders had to be the same size as the one I saw when I was younger. It just, I don't, like the width of it, it looks like, I don't know, it just looked like a paint, like it almost looked like a painting. Like, how could anything be that wide? and I laughed about it now, but I can't describe the fear when I was looking at it.

I mean, it had, it probably, it would have taken one step and took my arms and ripped them out of the sockets. I mean, the shoulder, like I said, if I were to lay down, the shoulders would have went probably as wide from the tip of my head to my knees or right

above my knees. I mean, I was way too scared to like try to go through measurement. I mean, I just know it was huge, the shoulders. I didn't, I wasn't like 42 inches, but I couldn't.

I just knew it was wider than anything I'd ever seen in my life. And when I looked back down to him, he was in tears. The tears were coming down his cheeks. I don't know. I'm like, dude, just whatever you do, don't shine the light. I know if he shine the light on that thing, it would have, I don't know. It would have killed one of us, if not both of us. I don't know.

I just knew the whole encounter, which probably lasted only a minute, even though I'm telling it so long. from the time the female came down and down it probably lasted only a minute. I mean they covered so much ground so quick and when I looked up he was just standing there. They didn't do anything.

Dude, literally we just sat. We sat. We did nothing. You made all that extra noise. That's what they were doing. They were challenging you to see what you were going to do. Probably to see if you were threat or whatever. But they made all that extra noise. I wish I would have said to him, like, look how big I am.

I'm not a threat to you. I mean, I couldn't talk to it. I don't know how these idiots say they communicate with these things. I don't know what, if they're lying, if they're full, I don't know. I don't know how you could, I couldn't even muster. Dude, they have to be delusional. I mean, if you, if you're in front of one of these that close, you can't speak, you can't, I don't know. I mean, I'm sure some people can.

I couldn't. I mean, my friend is sitting there crying. He doesn't know. You know what I mean? I moved when I was 16 at 15 feet, so. Wow. Yeah, so, yeah. You know what I'm, I mean, I was 12.

You know what I'm talking about. You were young, too. What you're talking about. Yeah, I wanted to hear your account in full one time. I only heard Wes's, but yeah. And so I look, he's in tears. I look back up, and I told West this before. It was like when it got down close enough to where I was staring at it,

it was almost, I know it wasn't out of breath. I mean, the thing is covered that much ground that quick. I know it can do. It probably could have ran 30 miles an hour another 10 miles if it wanted to, but it was breathing in like, like when it was going out, it was like,

but it was breathing in. I can't even imitate what it was doing when it was breathing in, but it was just as hard as when it was breathing out. And then Westhead told me in his encounter, it was doing the same.

So I know I wasn't going crazy. I don't know if that was to intimidate us or, but it was a behavior, right. Yeah. Because it's out of breath. It's a behavior. Okay, yeah, I was like, there's no way this thing's out of breath. I mean, this thing is...

And the one behind us wasn't making any noise. I'm guessing it was a female. I have no idea. We never saw it, but it wasn't making any noise. It was just... I'm guessing it was still standing, observing while this bigger one had come into view. I mean, it must have...

Exactly. It must have known that we could see it. And the other one knew... That's scary. Jesus. If it stepped out, the other one would have came from behind, and they would have, I don't know, without,

something that big. That's what I'm thinking. I'm thinking there were probably more off, I mean, I wasn't thinking at the time. I was just thinking, please, can I live? Like, it's, it, that, it's like having a gun tear.

It's like, yeah, you just want to know that situation. Exactly. All you think about is, like, I could die right now, and I'm not going to see tomorrow. Like, the last image I could have is just things hand coming down

and, doing whatever. That was the last time I went out. But yeah, he was, and the thing eventually, after I heard, I looked down because I looked at it for three seconds, saw its shoulders its head, how big it was, and I couldn't look at it anymore. I looked down. I thought maybe if I looked down, it'll think that I'm less, I don't know, I'm less,

that's the only rational thought I had, that if I didn't look at it, then maybe it would think I'm not a threat because the one when I was 12 or 13, I didn't look at its face either, and it didn't come at me. So I'm thinking maybe not looking at it in the face helps. The only thing I could think of. When researchers work with primates in the wild, staring at another one. Okay.

What they do when they try to get close to them is they'll not make direct eye contact. And a lot of native peoples have always said to, when you say encounter one of these creatures, don't look them in the eye. Don't look in there up. Okay, yeah. Right. Wow. Wow.

Dude, wow. I mean, I wonder, they can see perfectly in the dark. So if I looked up in its face, it probably, it still would have known I was looking at it in the eyes, even though it was, right? Yeah, it was pitch black. It was still, and he was, I felt so bad for taking this kid out. You would, you know, you're going to go back out again. No, I don't. That's what I was just about to get to.

I looked down at him, he's crying. The only thing I could think of in the moment, besides not looking at it was, why did I come out here? Why did I put myself in this situation? Before this happened, I was all gangho for it. I want to encounter this. The curiosity overcame the fear. And then as soon as this happened, I was put right back in fear.

And it was like, why did I bring myself out here? What did I do? My jaw was going. It was just, it was like surreal. And there's no way, no. And to answer your question, now I made a pledge. As soon as we heard the breath leaving, we heard it moving away. I heard the footfalls finally.

Like, I think my heart was pounding so fast that I didn't even hear it walking away at first. I just heard the breath moving farther away. It was, I could hear my heart and my chest. And no, I'm not going back out unless I have a group. I made that pledge to myself. That was it. That was all I needed. I'm fascinated with the subject.

I want to learn about these things, but I can't. I don't know how people do it. Unless I have a group of six or seven people, I can't, I won't feel comfortable. There's no one. interesting thing you mentioned before about the bear that was found dead. Yeah, that's turned 180 degrees. You have to think what in the world? World could do that.

Could do that. Could do that with its bare hands. There were no cut marks, nothing. Right. And it sort of narrows it down. There's not many things that could, really, and nothing that I know in nature. That's exactly, exactly what I told Wes before, that if you know they're real, I know they're real, you know they're real, he knows they're real, she knows they're real.

if you know they're real and you accept they're there, that's what did it. I mean, there's nothing else it could be. If you don't believe that these things exist, then you're going to find some alternate explanation. It was... You're missing, too, right? Behind, dude, the bear, I walked up, and it's laying in the clearing. I didn't tell you guys this part. I told what's before.

There were tracks around it. No toes or discernible heel or anything, but there were... I'm guessing, I didn't have a tape measure, but I was guessing there were 18-inch impressions near the bear. And then there were smaller ones over by where the wood line was. Not a juvenile per se, but they were smaller than the 18 inches. Right. There were impressions. I walked were ripped off.

The bear's head was twisted. No, they were ripped off. I know I've been out in the woods. I know the difference between someone cutting something up and something ripped off. You could see pieces of the hair that were on the ground near it. There was like pieces, like the guts were hanging out. It was ripped off. They were ripped off.

Both back legs were ripped off. Yeah. And the head was... I mentioned this on the show before about why investigated in 1980 a couple else, and the hindquarters were all... And I hear this over and over. This must be what they do.

Well, hunters will know anybody who dealt with animals in quarters than the rest of the animal. So it's possible, you know, that's what they're taking in a lot of cases. It's the most protein for them, maybe. then, yeah. Because, like, when I, even when I was younger,

the dog, it was only half of the dog, the dog's hindquarters were missing as well. And I made that connection. So, when I hear about these, the heads that are twisted,

like, you hear about that a lot, the animal's heads that are twisted first. A lot of times, and really, animals like that. Yeah,

even if the necks are just snapped. But, I mean, this, when I came up on the bear, it was, I feel bad laughing about it, but it looked so weird.

Like, The head was twisted all the way around. Right. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure it could have pulled the head off if it wanted to, but it was a twisting motion. I'm sure if it pulled, it would just, it had to be three, 400 pound bear.

I mean, it wasn't a small black bear. It was a decent-sized black bear, and it's, I mean, if a bear could moll a human that easily, and this thing could do that to a bear that easily, what could it do to a human? It's probably like picking a doll apart. Like, we could pick a dollar, yeah, we could pick a Barbie dog,

all apart, that's how it would pick us apart. Exactly. That's, I mean, these things need to be respected, and I don't think people understand what, like, how vulnerable you are when, I mean, how many people go camping alone, you know what I mean? Like, and nobody even knows that they could be right there watching you come out and take you as a meal. Exactly, and people do come out missing. Yeah.

They do, and, you know, I've seen David Politey's book recently. just scared the crap out of me because, you know, my head started going. My mind started racing. Like, what if I saw, what if it was, the thing I saw when I was 13 was carrying somebody's clothes after it ate them? Like, what if there was just somebody, a hiker's dog

after it ate the hiker? Just so much stuff was going through my mind. Like, how could anyone think these things are friendly? And I don't know. Like, what happened? That's one of the things that haunted me for all these years, Will. I think one of the problems where these ideas come from are they watch too much television,

and because, you know, things are sanitized for us on television. They don't realize what real animals in the wild are like. Exactly. They're not going to go on TV and say, if you go into the woods, you're going to get torn apart, I guess. They want to make it nice and friendly, so they get raiding or whatever the reason. But it's just such an opposite experience of what I've had. Right.

For him for many years, things, you know, use the example of chimps for many, many, many years. I mean, decades. You know, chimps were always called nature's jokes kind of stuff. Yeah. And then you see them ripping apart of their chimps. They have to be trained to be playful and do the things they do on television. In the wild, they're vicious. Yeah, wow.

So true. They found just recently they eat a lot more meat than was ever real life before. Yep. I saw that too. They will actually hunt down other chimps like rival groups and kill them and eat them. You see them eating the body parts. I saw a special on that geo, and you don't see that often, but it was scary. Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, I'm sure you guys, you remember that one lady who was, I mean, and this was a chame chimp, a tamed chimp. Remember this happened a few years ago? The chimp that mauled the lady and her face was just completely distorted. You remember that? Her face was just completely distorted. I mean, that was scary when I said, that was scary. And this was a tame chimp, so imagine you're in the wild, you know? Yeah, there's nothing to mess with. In fact, no primity. Did you guys? No. even with humans, you press someone's buttons when they're pissed off, they might hit you. I'm sure primates are the same.

You piss them off. I mean, I feel like Sasquatches don't have, I mean, I feel like they have short-fews. Exactly, there you go. That's what I was thinking. I mean, just that we were there and the ridge pissed them off enough to roar and come down at us. We didn't turn any lights on. Yeah, we didn't, we didn't, we didn't, we didn't, we didn't turn. any lights on. We didn't approach

them. Nothing. A roar and then a screen. It's long of a view, right? Yeah, I was trying to Out of the woodline. He saw it from the... Oh, yeah. He was right next to me. Yeah, he was crying. There were tears coming down his eyes.

I don't want to say I was more prepared, but I knew that, I knew they existed. So maybe it was less, it was still obviously a shock to me, but I think it was less of a shock just because I knew what they were. and he didn't know what he was looking at. I mean, he was just like mumbling gibberish.

I didn't even understand what he was saying. He was in shock that bad. Like, I mean, he would be useless. I mean, I knew I was the level-headed one there, even though I was scared out of my width. So we were both pretty useless. And how long did you guys sit there once assumed it was gone? We sat there for probably, we didn't even want. I mean, he wanted to go.

I'm like, dude, I really don't feel comfortable like leaving in the dark and walking back down this trail. and we weren't even on the show. It would have taken us 10 minutes to get back to the trail, and then I just didn't feel comfortable. I'm like, please, let's just stay tonight. We'll move positions, but I don't feel comfortable. I mean, I felt like if we left, it would follow us out and kill us before we got back to the car, you know?

I just didn't feel comfortable leaving in the dark. So we moved positions and nothing else happened at night. And, I mean, I didn't sleep. He was lying. I think he was pretending to sleep, but I saw him shaking. I don't think he ever fell asleep. Yeah. I was sitting, I was sitting up all night.

I can't, it felt like so long until the sun came up, it felt like days, days. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was, it was, and after that, I just, I don't know how people go out without a group. I mean, I guess if you haven't had a scary experience, then you don't know what to expect, but I can't go back up. Well, you know, I tell people never go alone, ever. And that's the best, if I was alone, if, if, if I wasn't there, he wasn't there, and if I went out of alone, I probably wouldn't even be talking to you. I really doubt it.

It's very possible, yeah. I mean, everyone says it's not going to happen to them. Yeah. My first encounter? Yeah, your first encounter, your description is just burned into my brain. That's exactly how it was. For years, I literally had nightmares for years, nightmares. Yeah.

Yeah, and that's the way it is the first time, especially if you have a close encounter like that. It was 13. There's no way to describe people what it does to you. No, I can't. And, like, since you guys have seen it, it's just, it's pretty cathartic telling you no one else can understand. I mean, when I told the BFRO, it had a dog, half a dog in a fan, they looked, that, I could tell they didn't believe me. I was, I'm like, I, whatever, there's no reason I, to continue this dialogue. They had no idea.

I don't know. They had no idea. They had no idea. They don't believe you. For all of us to talk to each other that have seen these things. Exactly. Because this is where the knowledge comes from. And you're right.

It's only someone else who's had a similar experience that can understand it. Yep, and I just couldn't wait to talk to you guys. Like, I mean, they were kind of, they were like, are you sure it wasn't black? It wasn't brown. Are you sure it was gray? Like, ten times they said in the email, was it, are you sure it was gray? I mean, yeah. Did you hear what I said?

I mean, if I was frustrated. That's so strange. I is right? Why is that so strange that it's, I mean, it had gray hair. I don't know what to tell you. Yeah. You want me to lie and change my story if you were? A variety of colors.

You know, the most, the, the, most, the, the, majority of them are... Yeah, and I do understand that. But we have four different species, too, so there's going to be a wide range. And black, goldish, brown, white, gray. I know. You know, there's...

And I almost didn't blame them. Just like with people. Isn't there's variation in the species? You're going to have a lot of changes, a lot of differences. I mean, hearing you talking here and that, I mean, it's like night and day. Like, they're clueless compared to you guys, though. It's just, I don't even, I don't know, I don't even blame them. It is what it is.

Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, it's, you know, it's, you know, it's, you know, it's, night and day. And to get feedback so quick, I was so happy. I mean, I literally have told one other person my whole life about this. And what am I going to tell people? I saw a monster with half a dog in the fan. They just can't.

If nothing else for the audience, you know, at least we're here for people to talk to. Exactly. And you guys actually cared, you know, so. Well, let me see this is just because we've been there. Yeah. It's funny. and when you say it's burned in your memory.

I got off the phone with Chris a few hours ago, and that's all I thought about was seeing that Sasquatch standing in the middle of that trail holding a half a dog. I mean, it's like burned in my memory. Wes called me right away about it. He told me you'd love it. Oh, my God. Dude, it was disturbing.

It was disturbing. I mean, it's still burned in my line. It was disturbing. It's still disturbing. I can do to animals. so I totally You know what the elk torn apart Yeah

I mean it was probably no It probably ripped the dog with two fingers I mean I'm sure it was a decent by dog But it looked tiny It looked tiny in the thing's hand Right Right

Oh God It was disturbing I'll tell you Chris what about the other young man That took off running I mean was he back at camp Like freaking out Yeah I didn't even

I didn't even tell you When we got back to camp He was sitting he was sitting with three people and I was, as soon as I got back, I was scanning for him, looking for him. He was sitting by three people staring at the ground

and they were talking, eating like peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, whatever. He was just sitting there staring at the ground. I got back, my jaw was still shaking. I mean, in both encounters, my jaw had been shaking. Maybe that's just how my body reacts to fear and, you know, I'm sure everyone reacts differently. My jaw is shaken.

The camp counselor had seen him, I guess he didn't make the connection, we snuck off together. I saw him looking at him, and he saw me walk back up, and he asked me what had happened. Why, like, where'd you go? He said, I had no color in my face. I just told him I saw a bear.

I didn't even want to deal with it. I said, I saw a bear, and I ran. He said, did it have cubs with him? I just, I don't know, I just kept making stuff up. I wasn't going to tell him. I didn't, I don't know. It just amazed me how close this thing was to 20 kids. How, like, he must have been there the whole time.

I don't know. Did you have a kid say anything, or? No, I don't think he, if he went up to the other kid, it was probably in private. I still keep in contact with this kid. We didn't talk the whole ride back, the whole bus ride back. We didn't say a word about it. Our parents were waiting for us when we got back. We just won our separate ways.

And I have talked to him since. He moved, but I still keep in contact with him. I wanted to get him on the show. I wanted to get him to talk to you guys. He's still kind of iffy about it. But, I mean, since it's the same encounter, I don't know if you'd have him, but it would be nice to have him corroborate it, you know? It would see his perspective on it.

Yeah. Exactly. So I mean, I might have success, more success getting him to talk than the kid from the second encounter. That kid is just, I don't think he'll talk about it in public. But the first kid, we might have some luck with. I told him I was going on on the show whenever you guys gave me an email back. So maybe he'll come on after he hears me. That would be cool. Yeah, I think like Will was saying, it's nice to get a different perspective, but we really don't need the other person to corroborate your... I know. I know. I know you guys know what I saw. Exactly. I know. You're not like, exactly. You guys know. I mean, like you, like I've heard we'll say it before. It's an instant rapport. Like, you know, when someone's seen it and you've seen it, you just know. You can tell. You know, you can tell. You know, you can tell. Exactly. You don't need. I mean, that's why these guys who haven't seen one are like, oh, was anyone else there? You know, they might need that corroborating because they can't fathom it. They can't wrap their heads around it. So, no, I. I just want to, I was going to say, I'll definitely contact you guys if he agrees to it, or I'll give him your information. But I appreciate you guys having me on here. It really, it's cathartic.

You know, like I said, as gay as that sounds, it's nice. It's a great account. And I know, I didn't mean to interrupt a few times or why. I was just like. I don't want to scare you guys. Sorry, if you're going to have that image entrenched in your mind, but I had to get it out. Pretty much. Still going crazy with it.

Shannon, don't have night. I'm sorry. Some accounts you really get absorbed in, you know. And yours is one of them. And I've heard a lot of them. Yours is one of those that's... Right? It's so many thoughts.

I mean, I thought, like, my mind is racist. Like, what was it doing? Like, where did it get the dog? Why did it? Where was it all this time when we were hiking up the trail? So many questions. And that's why I became assessed at the subject. Well, be safe when you're out there, Chris.

I know. Trust me. Of all people, I know. I mean, two encounters. And I feel like something's telling me just stop going out in the woods. Like, I don't know. like near-death experiences twice now. I don't know.

I just, maybe I'm not, maybe the woods don't need me out there or something. No, do you have a question? You were trying to get a word in there. You know, Chris, it's, you do get this weird,

even though it scares you to death, you go through this fear. Weird obsession, right? Yeah, you get this weird obsession, man, where you just want to go back out. After the fear, exactly.

Yeah. The fear's still there. It's like pulling me out almost. And I'm sure I'm saying I won't go out now. I'm sure I will end up going back out, but I can definitely say it won't be alone or with one person. I need a group. That was just, that second encounter was, that was it for me.

It was, that was too scary. I can hear, I can hear, I can hear, if I lay down to my bed at night. I really can. Yeah, no, I know. I really wanted to thank you for coming on and sharing it. I know sometimes it's not easy to share your encounter, but in the same breath, sometimes it feels like weight's been lifted when you are able to talk to. Exactly. Both of those emotions at the same time.

you just said a weight was lifted, but it was kind of, it gets, I almost feel like I relive it when I tell it sometimes, especially that first one. I mean, I could see the thing standing. I'm out in my driveway right now. I could see a standing. Like, I can picture the whole the whole situation. I could see it

just as clear as it was 10 years ago. And I forgot a ton of other things. If I ever get back out, maybe I can stay in touch to you guys if I find anything or, you know, come across anything. Yeah. Yeah, thank you. All right, guys. Awesome. No problem. Thanks for having me on. Thanks, brother.

All right, bro. That was the hell of an account. All you can say is, wow. It's like I said, you know, I've heard so many stories over the years, and it was very, that one really great. What he did, too. And each story has different elements, you know. Like what grabbed me about yours was the fact,

these guys were, they were hunting. It's just sort of like, wow. You don't get too many people that. actually see things like that. Yeah, I'm still thinking about his encounter. Oh, yeah. No, that'll be another line for a while. Yeah, my mind was just going back to the first one. Yeah.

He was talking about the second one, but my mind was still kind of trying to process the first, and I'm like, holy cow. That's terrifying. And he did exactly the right things. I mean, probably not clearing in the face. It depends on the creature. Now, when I saw the two that I did the first time, I stared back at him, but I was holding a rifle too.

So that may have made the difference there. In his case, not to look in their eyes. Yeah, I think it's interesting. I think sometimes that fear response saves our ass like we've always talked about on the show. Oh, absolutely. I think it's something that's been created in us as a survival mechanism. Yeah. And apparently it works.

He's probably lucky that his friend taken off like that didn't, I mean, it didn't, you know, make this asswalk decide to blow up or get angry your rings that you just kind of went, okay. Right. Now, had they both ran, it may have chased them. I don't really understand the BFRO trying to change the color of the creature he saw. I don't get that. You know, those guys, I just have no respect for that group at all. You know, when him and I were talking, he said, hey, Wes, it was gray.

And I said, okay. And he goes, no, really, it was gray. And I go, no, I'm with you. Yeah, I said, no, no, I'm with you. It's gray. I get it. And he goes, no, no, man. It wasn't black.

It wasn't. And I go, no, I get it. It was gray. I've seen a gray one. I get it. I mean, that makes sense to me. So many times did he say that then? It's incredible.

And they would try to change the particulars of an account. It makes you wonder when you go back in their database, how many, how many details were actually changed from real stories. Yeah. Will, is that them trying to make. and seem not as aggressive? I mean, is that the bottom line here? It could very well be sure.

I mean, a torn-up dog in half is very aggressive. Yeah, they're trying to soft pedal. Yeah, they're trying to soft pedal some of these accounts. Do you guys see the correlation between what Chris is talking about and what Jack was talking about with the torn-up dog? Oh, absolutely. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

And how dogs will never chase or go after these things. They won't track them. They're on it people. How many times have we heard different things about dogs? and where dogs are, you know, either eaten, thrown. Yeah, you know, Sasquatch terrifies me, and I want to share my terror with the world. But you cross my dog, and I guarantee me and the Sasquatch are going to go round and around. You know what I mean?

Well, you might go around. Well, yeah. My head might go around. You'll try at least. What I was stuck on the point where Jack was talking about, you know, how the jaws were ripped open. And everything you hear about pits is like, you know, once they lock their jaws on something, there's no way it's coming open until they decide to open. That detail alone. Yeah, and then all the government agents showing up.

You know, all those different agencies, it's like, wait a minute, now over a dog fight, even if there is drug people involved, does it really take all those different federal agencies? I mean, come on now. Yeah. Yeah. Guys in suits for a dog fight. Yeah, that just doesn't, you know, that's where two-ploid. us to does not equal four. No.

Well, you know, I know the government listens to our show, and so if the guys in suits are out there, if you guys are hiring, you know, if my website thing doesn't work out. We're there, man. We're there, man. Hey, I'll go out. I'll dust up tracks. I'll tell people they saw bears.

That's right. We can be bought. Yeah, we can be bought. Just throwing that out there. That's right, you know. Just saying. Yeah. Just a plan. B.

I would taint you guys' resume. I'd find a way. You're not taking them. Don't go to the dark side. Well, I want to thank Chris for coming on. I want to thank Jack for coming on and sharing his encounters. Shannon and Will, as always,

thank you for being here. And until next week, everyone. Precision medicine holds great promise for treating genetic diseases, such as certain types of cancers. To drive progress Harvard Business School Executive Education has developed a new program accelerating innovation in precision medicine

which brings together leaders from business, science, medicine, and technology to explore new models for advancing personalized medicine. The program takes place on the Boston campus in September. Learn more by clicking the banner or visiting hbs.m.me slash precision. That's hbs.m.m.

Sports betting is sweeping across the country faster than the coronavirus and wagering week is your antidote. I'm Tom Barton, and I'm a veteran sports analyst and respected sports handicapper who will help build ESPN's brand. I've been recognized and awarded by Pro Football Weekly and Gaming Today magazine as the honest handicapper. Let the other guys give you the same old boring sports talk with the same tired storylines. We'll give it to you straight here every Friday on Wagering Week. Don't gamble with other podcasts. Let SportsGuard Network's Wagering Week

help your bottom line.