Sasquatch Chronicles - SC EP:554 Sasquatch In The Desert

Episode Date: June 23, 2019

Ann writes, "Last year, in spring I had an experience that has significantly and profoundly affected my life in such a way that I am no longer able to enjoy the past times that I have been so deeply in love with since a child. In place of the lengthy carefree and joyful, stress free experience that our mountains have been my visits are now anxious and brief. I am frightened almost to the point of giving into a need to flee. Never do I go exploring outside of eyesight and its so bad that I feel no joy or peace there anymore. It just feels like I dont want to go there, to stay away. I believe I was stalked and followed by a creature. This has left me pretty much paralyzed with fear. I am an outdoors woman deluxe…reduced to being afraid to venture out beyond the confines of my own yard. I know it was a Sasquatch. All the way down to my soul I know what it was."   We will also be speaking to Jim who is a Bigfoot Researcher, and he will be sharing his encounters with us. Jim said, "We experience a lot of strange things but the area we go to is known to be haunted but things got really strange when I went on a ghost hunt in Tombstone, Arizona..."

Black thing go from left to right and I thought, I'm going to die out here and no one's ever going to know. I couldn't believe what my eyeballs was showing me. I'll never forget how evil the eyes were. It was a horrible. I mean, I've never seen nothing that evil. It ran towards me at a rate that I can't even explain, turned and stared at me. And this look of, I just want to kill you. I want to say it was human, but it wasn't.

He was yelling at me to grab a gun, grab a gun. I was like, for what? He said, just grab a gun. And there's footprints all the way to the door of my house. It had went inside my garage all the way to the door. 911, what are you reporting? Get somebody out here. What's going on now, sir? That son of a bitch is about six foot nine, I don't know.

Do you see him now, sir? Yes, I'm looking right at him. You're listening to Sasquatch Chronicles. Check us out online at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. If you've had an encounter, email me. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. Welcome to the show, everyone. Thanks for being here tonight.

Got a great show planned for you tonight. Hung out with the members last night. We had Jason on the show from Michigan. And thank you so much to Jason for coming on the show. Fascinating account. He bought a hunting land. everything was going great until he ran into a hairy Neanderthal. A lot of weird things happened on that property.

And I want to thank Jason again for coming on the show. Tonight we'll start off with Anne. And Anne comes to us from Arizona. Her and her husband are miners. And she was actually stalked down a trail by one of these things. Later, her and her husband ran into one as they were driving by on the road out there in the desert. Then we'll bring Jim on. Jim's actually from Mississippi.

Michigan, and he's going to be sharing some of the experiences, him and his son and his research partner have had out there. And then it gets a little weird, just giving you a heads up, it gets a little weird. He took a trip, him and his son, down to Arizona, one of my favorite towns, Tombstone, a very haunted place, and he'll be sharing some of his strange and odd experiences down there too as well. And I really appreciate Jim coming on the show. It's like John Benner-Noggle used to tell me you don't have to agree with everyone, but you've got to hear everyone out. And so I want to thank Jim again for coming on. If you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at saskatch Chronicles.com.

If you get a chance, check out Sasquatch Chronicles.com. You can become a member and get additional shows. Let's jump into it tonight. I want to welcome and to the show. And thanks for coming on. Oh, not a problem. I'm excited. to be here. Yeah, I appreciate you being here, Anne. And I know you had two encounters in the Arizona Mountains. If you would, would you take us back to that first encounter. Tell us what you were doing and walk us into what happened. Sure. It had gone up, it was a little over a year ago. It was still toward the early part of spring. So things up here were a little bit more green and cool. Believe it or not, it does get cool in Arizona. And we were,

We're heading up to one of the mining claims that my husband owns. And we're toward the mid, maybe the, a little bit more southern, but more midsection of the Bradshaw mountains. And we've gone up there and it's kind of where we've spent our life. We've never seen anything weird up there. And it's quite a drive. It's a little over an hour for us. So we're way back in the mountains.

And, you know, it was the middle of the week. So on the way in, we didn't really see anybody else coming in. There weren't any, you know, off-road vehicles or any other cars that we passed. And the claim is at the top of a hill. So when we look down, we can see if there's anybody around us, and there wasn't anyone there out there that day working their claim. And when my husband is in work in the tunnel, I'm kind of out exploring, looking for settlements that were.

in the area of mining camps. I like to follow the old mining trails and clean them up. And I was on this particular trail. And that was probably a half a mile away from the truck. And, you know, I'd walk this trail before. I knew where I was. I've always felt completely at home in the area. And I think that's a thing that frustrates me the most because I felt so confident and it was such a You know, it's always been such an important place to me that this experience has kind of ruined that. But I had knelt down to open up my backpack because I thought I had found a place where there were a couple people that had been buried. And I wanted to get my clippers out and prune it up. And I caught a whiff of something.

And it was like raw sewage and that dried blood smell. That's the only thing I can compare it to. It was really quick. And it didn't smell like anything I had smelt out there. I know local wildlife, we have havelina. It didn't smell like that. It wasn't a burrow. And all of a sudden, things got really quiet.

And it was a classic textbook. You put your head up. You look around, you notice that the birds aren't even chirping. I mean, the grass is barely moving in the wind. And suddenly, you're terrified beyond belief in a way that you've never been before. And so I always carry a handgun with me. So I took that out of my bag and I stood up and I did a 360. I just turned in a circle to see if I could see what it was that, you know, that I was so scared of.

just didn't make any sense. And then I got blasted with another wave of this disgusting odor. And at that point, it was flight for me. I just grabbed my bag and I started heading up a little ridge back toward the truck. And it was a bit of a scramble to get out of there. And so I couldn't hear really other than my own trying to dig up the side of, you know, the path is a little steep. So by the time I got up there, I was breathing.

pretty heavy and I'm moving up the ridge and down below me I can hear in the brush and it's more scrub. It's low, it's like low mesquite, thick scrub ironwood type, something in the bushes. But every time I stop and it's like paralleling me as I'm going, every time I stop, I can't hear it anymore. So I'm moving forward. I can hear the bushes below me, and I'm watching. I'll stop and I'll look down, and I won't hear anything anymore. And so I'll walk some more. And my curiosity at this time, I kind of want to see what it is that's following me,

just primarily so I can know what's following me, so I can have an answer and know what I'm so scared of. And about three or four times this happened. And the fourth time when I stopped and turned around, out of the brush comes this dark head. And it peeks out at me. And I'm not sure. I'm pretty sure it was standing up just how far it was off the ground. But if it was, it couldn't have been very tall.

It could have been on its hands and knees. But it looks up at me. And I can see blink because the way the sun was, it kind of reflected off the eyes. It wasn't like the amber color. People say it was more of just like, you know, how you get a, when you flash at someone and the eyes kind of just, it was more like a sun glare. And it blinked a couple times. And that, and I have never seen anything like that. And I kind of knew what I was looking at.

And so I just, I went as fast as I can. And I'm not a little girl. And I was hauling ass through the desert. And I was yelling for my husband and he comes out of it. But fortunately, he was not far away. And I asked him to watch me, please. I said something's following me. And so I cut from the ridge and kind of went down a,

it wasn't too steep of a hill and then climbed back up where the head frame was for the mine and got in the truck and I refused to leave or refused to get out. And when I told him what I thought I saw, you know, he thought it was funny. You know, he said, well, it was probably just a mountain lion chasing you. And I'm telling him, this was no mountain lion. I said, I swear to God, there's Bigfoot out here, and you need to take me home now. And that was the end of my adventure for that day. I didn't, well, for a long time, to be quite honest.

I didn't want to go back out there for, well, it was more than a year. And it was very frustrating for him and for me because, you know, that's what we do. I can understand the way, Phil. Can you describe the face that you saw that popped out for the audience? Slightly football shaped. The head was kind of slightly football shaped. I didn't note it wasn't too pronounced, but it definitely wasn't round like my head. Like my head is much different than anyone else's.

And it was dark. I know the skin was dark, the face was dark because I really couldn't tell feature, that there wasn't a lot of hair on the face, because I was probably 50 yards away from it by now, and I'm looking down at it. And it kind of looked like it was having trouble looking up my direction. Like it had to bend weird maybe at its shoulders to turn up at me, almost like there was no, you know, how if you have no neck, you kind of have to angle your shoulders weird. Yeah.

So I was kind of getting, most of the time, kind of like a half face, and it was really brief, but dark eyes, kind of big dark eyes, it wasn't, I could say the nose was a little bit bigger than a normal human, but it looked more person than it did animal for sure. And I think that's what scared me the most because I've been, I've, I didn't listen to a lot of the Sasquatch anything or Bigfoot anything up until that point. But the subject has always fascinated me. And anytime there was anything on TV or I'd stumble across something on the internet, I would watch it. And I believed they were out there. But, you know, Arizona, you don't think you're going to see one. So when I saw it and it looked so incredibly human, except for being very dark, dark skin. It caught me off guard.

Yeah, I would imagine. And they're definitely up there. I mean, that mountain range connects with the Mongolian room, doesn't it? Yeah, the Muggeon. Mugion, yeah. I always say it wrong. But now I've heard a lot of encounters there. I'm curious, a lot of times when you hear them pacing people out,

I think it's one of two. Well, I think there's three reasons why. I think, and this is just my opinion. I think the first reason is generally to get you to leave. You'll generally find the big ones will do that. They'll pace you out. They'll try to intimidate you out. They'll break branches as they go.

Just cause a lot of noise to get you to leave. The second reason I think that they do it, I think, is for malicious reasons, whether they're going to harm you or take you or I think that's another reason why they do it. The third one, I think, is more or less curiosity. You'll hear smaller ones do that, where they'll try to do the same thing as the big ones, but they're a little bit more goofy about it. Like, you generally don't hear a big one when it's pacing you out. Usually it's a big male, and he's making a lot of noise, and you want you to go. But you'll see that behavior, too, with smaller ones, but they'll do goofy things like poke their head out of bushes and come a little bit closer

than they probably should. That's my opinion. Why do you think it was pacing you out? What's your opinion of that whole thing that happened to you? Personally, I didn't feel threatened, even though I felt very scared, which is, that's kind of interesting now, but I think about it. But having thought about it for so long, I think it was more of a general curiosity because the noise the noise it was making was just moving through the brush.

It wasn't intentionally crunching or breaking branches. It was just trying to keep up with me. And it didn't poke its head out quickly with, it was more just kind of a slowly peek out and and blink up at me. I really think it was more just watching, just seeing. Maybe there were more in the area, and it was just keeping tabs on me to see where I was going. Maybe it was keeping me going in that direction,

making sure I was leaving. I don't know. But that did not feel, and I could have read it completely wrong, but it didn't feel like I was in it. any danger at that point more than I was just being watched. Yeah, I tend to agree with you because, you know, the more I listened to your encounter, especially there at the beginning, he was probably closer to you than you realized,

and he probably could have grabbed you. I mean, if you're smelling him, they're generally pretty close, you know? Yes, and there wasn't a whole lot of wind that day. Have you ever been back to that area? Did you ever go back down that trail, or have you been back? I won't go down the trail. I will sit up. I'll sit at the head of the trail a lot with the binocs, but when I start going down, I still have that overwhelming fear to the point where it just drives me to tears because it's, I can't connect with the things that I loved so much before. I can't push past it. I can't pull myself up by my bootstraps and move through it and do what I need. to do anyway. It's just that debilitating. So we'll sit there and there've been a couple times

where I've thought there's a big header that sits below us from where the entrance of our mine is it sits down below us and I thought I've heard rocks being chucked into it like bounced off of the big wood frame and usually everyone's in the mine so there's nobody else to ask, you know, did you hear that? And, you know, I'm hypersensitive anyway to all those little sounds now. But I haven't really seen any, I have not seen anything else since going back out there. And I've probably been back out there six or eight times this season. So, that's the only thing so far that I've noticed. But I do ask other people, because we have a lot of people in the area, if they've ever seen anything weird. And so far, I, either, they're not

saying anything or I'm just the only one. Yeah, usually miners, especially gold miners, you know, they get out there and they're pretty tight-lipped about things. But a lot of those guys, especially they've been doing it for a long time, do have stories of running into these things. Have you heard any vocalizations or anything out there? No, nothing. And from what I'm watching, what I'm learning is that's more of a nighttime thing, it seems. And I haven't heard anything like that. during the day when I'm there. You also had another encounter when you were driving out on the highway out there.

Tell us about that. Yeah, this was four days ago. So we were heading from our town into Phoenix. It's about an hour away. Excuse me. And on the way back the other day, I took a picture of where we saw it, and I'll send you that today. But we have to pass through this smaller town and it's a one-stop-like town. And after you pass it, you go over a big drainage ditch.

There's a wash that runs underneath a small bridge and you drive over that bridge. And on the driver's side of the bridge, there's a big cement. It's a barrier. It's probably about four feet tall. It's a lot taller behind it. It's probably about six feet down to the ground, but from our side, on the driver's side, it's probably about four feet tall. And it's just to keep people from, you know, driving off the side of the bridge down into the,

into the wash. And my husband and I were driving, and, you know, my husband who doesn't believe anything about Bigfoot, we passed the stoplight and we see this hairy man standing. It's 110 degrees outside, standing on the, you know, not the highway side of this cement barrier, but the wash side where he could duck back down and go underneath type side. And he's probably three feet taller than the cement. So he's pretty tall. He's six or seven feet.

And he's like, did you see that guy? And we passed him really quick, and he was right by the driver's side window. And I said, oh, my God. I said, that looked like a hairy man. And he said, I couldn't see his face. He was covered in hair. He didn't have any clothes on. And he had his hand up almost like he was protecting his eyes.

So we could not see his face, but his arm was all hair. He literally had no clothes on. It was like looking at a tall man standing there, completely covered and head-to-toe hair, not fur. I mean, granted, we could only see from probably the hips up. But it was, I swear West, there was a Sasquatch standing on Highway 60 in the middle of 110-degree day. right there on the road. I'm not lying. No, I don't think you're.

Yeah. And, I mean, they're known to cross in that general area. You hear roadside crossings all the time. And you brought up a good point, the drainage system down below. The doctor who had the Zubis in, he called them the Zubis in San Diego. He used to say they travel the drainage systems out there. And usually you'll find them at night. And this was back in the same.

70s. He made that comment. Yeah, that's fascinating. And you hear that a lot of times, they'll try and cover their face. They'll put their arm up or they'll put their, almost like they're trying to hide. But, and I've heard that behavior too as well. Was he like a lot of people described? Was it like this huge muscle man or was he slim? How did he look? I realize you're passing him pretty quick. It's stockier than your average guy. I mean, I wouldn't call him slim. He was, he was a little bit more built, but he wasn't overly, overly buff. I mean, he was, he was muscled for sure, but you couldn't, you know, you could tell there was some definition under the hair, but there wasn't, you know, it wasn't extreme. It was just mostly like, it was like a, it was like a

just a guy, but he was all hair. His head was hair, his arms were hair. You know, his, you could tell it was, I mean, it was a thing, an intentional thing standing there that wasn't human covered in hair. And for a second, it's like I didn't want to believe that it was what I saw, but I know there's no kid in Whitman that's going to be driving down the road or pranking people in the middle of the road when it's 110 degrees out wearing an incredibly realistic Sasquatch suit. There's no one is that determined. They will melt in that suit. I was just so on the way back we watched and I took a picture of the backside of the culvert on the side that we saw it and I will send it to you I will send it with a little indication of where we saw it standing but it was facing away from us in the picture that I'm taking it we would

have been looking at its back and you can see where I saw it and then it could have just literally just ducked down and climbed right back into that culvert and it was you know it's cool and damp down there. And, you know, since I saw my, the first sighting, my brain automatically goes to Sasquatch because I try to make reasons why, okay, why it would be there. And then my husband, all of a sudden, he's believing me now. So then he's willing to talk to me about it, which was very comforting. And I felt very validated at that point. But yeah, that was very unexpected. Yeah, I can imagine. I can imagine. That's fascinating. Well, at least your husband got a chance to see one, you know, because they are in the area where you guys are mining, they're definitely in the area.

That whole mountain range too there. Do you guys still go up there? Do you still do that for living in that area? Almost every day. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I would be careful. I don't think, they've probably seen you a million times more.

I realize that doesn't bring you comfort, but they've probably been watching you guys for a while in that area. And I think your first encounter, I think, you know, the more I think about it, I think it was probably a juvenile. And he was bored. And I know that that doesn't bring you great comfort because it's some weird thing you've never seen before that seems to be smart enough to follow you. But I really think it was probably a juvenile just he messed up by popping his head out. You know, he was probably just trying to move you from one area to the next. And the younger ones will generally mess up like that. They'll do something goofy that you won't see an adult do.

I guarantee if that would have been an awful male, he wouldn't have poked his head out. He would have probably followed you all the way out, made sure you kept moving. What do you think that, Sasquatchez, Ann? I've had a lot of time to think about it, and I believe that it is, I believe it is a physical being that exists here on Earth, but I also believe that whether they have or they've been given, they have certain abilities that we don't, and that we don't understand. I also think there's a reason that they're so angry with. That most of the time you think they're very, you know, they're angry with us. Like they want us to leave.

They want us to move. I'm not sure why all the time, other than I know we're destroying their habitat. But I think we're at odds with each other for more reasons than we know. But I do think that they are a living creature that exists here. on earth and that they have, they have capacities, they have abilities that are beyond what we have for sure. Yeah, you bring up a good point. I think, you know, generally two predators don't get along. And we are definitely a predator, but we're more of a pack animal. And I think the reason why, this is my opinion, I think the reason why they fear us is because even a pack of hyenas

can take down a full-grown lion. One won't do anything. thing, but a pack will definitely take down a lion, and we're more of a pack animal, and I think they're more on the alpha lion scale. But I think it's just being two predators, you know, the unknown between the two of us and the fear between the two of us, you know, and there's, there is something I feel unnatural with these things, because when they're around, you describe that fear in the beginning, that unnatural fear of, I need to get out of here, you know, and, and Generally, you don't get that with normal animals. No.

Would you say it was a normal feeling? Have you ever felt fear like that before? The only other time I have felt that scared was when my family, we would vacation, we have a home. Our family in North Dakota has a house or had a house. It's no longer there. But it was very haunted. And there were, as a younger person, I remember feeling that scared with, with, legitimate reason because weird stuff was happening at exactly that moment.

So only at times where things that were otherworldly going on, have I ever felt that scared. Yeah, it's fascinating to bring that up because I've been in a house like that too before and I've had those feelings. And I said it before and that feeling you get when you're in a haunted home and something weird is going on, it is very similar to running into these things. is that real hair on the back of your neck and you're in immediate danger even though nothing's going on, you can't see? Because you didn't see the creature before you had that fear. No, the fear hit the smell, then the fear. And it was a very primal fear. I mean, not to quote a movie title, but it definitely was.

It was a, I mean, it was all the way to my core type fear. Like, I knew what it meant. I didn't even, like, you don't second guess. yourself with that type of fear. Yeah, it's fascinating. Well, you have to let, I appreciate you coming on and sharing the encounter, and you have to let me know if anything else happens out there, will you, Ann? You will be the first person I tell. And, Wes, I just want to thank you so much for your show. And I know you've heard this before, but you often give advice or a suggestion or you give your opinion about something. And then right away, you'll kind of go one down on

yourself, like, well, you know, you can take that with a grain of salt or you know what my opinion is worth. And you are, as far as most of us are concerned, a professional by now, at listening to these stories and knowing what you're talking about. And, you know, I just think if you're going to give your opinion, you know, you stand on it because we get our strength from you. So it's just, I mean, I take every word you say and I listen to it and I hold it to heart and, you know, and all the, most of the people you have on, too. I mean, you guys know what you're talking about. And I believe that you are one of those guys, too, Wes.

So I just wanted to tell you that, you know, I, I, yeah, just. Yeah, I appreciate it. Thank you so much for the kind words. Yeah, I appreciate that. Thank you very much. And thank you for coming on. You're welcome. Have an awesome day.

I want to welcome Jim to the show. Jim, thanks for coming on. Hey, thanks, Wes. Thanks for having me. Yeah, I appreciate you. here. And I know you've had a lot of strange things happen to you. And I want to get to the Tombstone Encounter because there's a lot of questions I have for you about that. Before we get into that, though, tell me about your first encounter. I know what happened in

Michigan, didn't it? Yes. Yeah, that's where I live. My Bigfoot research partner and I, we were doing a certain area of the state, and we were consistently in that area. And he called me one day, And he said, I was just driving home. And I saw a deer kill on the road with the organs stacked up 10 feet away. He goes, I think we got a squatch in this area. So I want to go to this certain lake and do it here. It's a rustic lake. And I'm like, okay.

So we went back there. And this is an hour and a half of my house. So when I go, it's basically a whole night for me. And I get home really, really early late in the morning. And we were sitting there about 11 o'clock that night and nothing had happened. We've been out there for five hours. We saw no signs, nothing. Not a sound, not a peep, nothing.

And I'm leaning against my car and we're at the end of a dirt road. And I told him, I said, Greg, this is ridiculous. I drove all the way here for nothing. We left our normally hot area for this. And I just happened to pop my flashlight on. And there were two big blue eyes about 30, 40 feet away looking at me from behind a tree. Now, if you look at the size, these weren't pinprits. they were the size of the end of an eraser on a pencil from 40 feet away.

That's how big they were. And I was like, guys, you see in this? And my son looked and Greg looked and they were like, yeah, that's eye shine. So he had a spotlight with him and he popped the spotlight on and you could clearly see the foot standing there. And you could see his head and his shoulders, everything else is behind brush. And he goes, Jim, you hold the spotlight right on him. And he took off into the woods and my son took off down the trail to try and see to get around him. I'm sitting there watching him.

He turned. I saw him turn and walk away. And he had tan skin and like a silversish, grayish white hair. Okay. And he took off. Now, Greg, when we met back up, Greg said he saw a brown flash in the woods. We don't know what he saw. My son who ran down the trail caught him coming out of the woods and into a bog.

He said, Dad, I saw him as he was ducking right into that brush. And he got to see his entire backside and his right shoulder and his right hip as he was going in. And I asked my son, I said, what did he look like? And, you know, before, because my son was 13, you don't want to give a kid ideas and they're going to try to copy your ideas, you know, to make themselves sound important. And he described, he saw a silver white hair. and it looked like hair that would be on a human or a chimpanzee. It wasn't fur. And he said it was big, whatever it was.

So we went back and measured the spot where he was standing. The tree was about a three-inch sapling, and he was standing behind it. So that's why his eyes were on each side of the tree trunk. To his eyes was about nine and a half feet. because there was a branch right there and his eyes were above the branch. We measured the branch and that was a nine and a half feet with our tape measure. So here's a pretty big guy standing there. And we'd been doing this for about a year.

We had Knox and we found prints and stuff like that. But we never had a quote unquote sighting. And my son and I got in the car and I looked at him. I said, these things are real. We've just been doing this for a lark. And he goes, I know. And I said, dude, you just chased a nine and a half foot one. he goes, I'm stupid.

I said, yeah, don't ever do that again. So that was our first sighting. So I had a good old staring contest right eye to eye with him. Yeah, that's terrifying. And I've seen, no, no, not at all. I thought it was fun. That was cool. I've actually seen him a couple other times that same swatch,

unless there's several silver gray ones running around in that area. Well, it's terrifying in the sense that your 13-year-old son went down there. You know, and you don't know really what they're going to do, Jim. I mean, that's my point is, you know, I know you haven't really had any much aggression or any aggression in your opinion. And we can talk about that later. But my point is, just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it won't happen. Oh, I agree. You know, there are situations where they do go off. And a 13-year-old kid is, well, you and I are no match to one of these things. A 13-year-old kid is, you know. But I understand the excitement. I'm not trying to be a down. I understand the excitement and wanting to, there it is, after all this time of you guys finding tracks and you're finding, yeah, I kind of get it. I definitely get it.

I think, Wes, you know, when people talk about how scary situation, I think with us it's a different situation when we're out in the woods because we're looking, we're expecting. I think when someone isn't expecting this and this thing, one of these things pops up, that's all of a sudden this monster of their dreams is standing right there. And I think that's what scares people. And I think also if you would, you dig dive into people and you get them to admit it, they're doing something stupid that's causing the reaction. They take a shot at it. They throw something at one. You know, I look at it when I'm in the woods as I'm in their home.

And I treat it as such. I don't leave trash behind. I don't bang on trees. I don't scream into the forest. I don't do stuff that I wouldn't want somebody walking in my home to do. And I think a lot of times when people do things, they don't maybe realize that they're being disrespectful or they're being, they're irritating something that lives there, but they are. And that's why they're getting that negative reaction. Now, I'm not saying there's not bad ones. There aren't ones that are just as gladly hurt you as walk away from you because I'm sure there are.

But I think a lot of times we cause those negative reactions. You know, one growls and we hear it and we go towards it instead of saying it's warning you back off. And man goes, oh, I'm going to go get a picture of you. And I think that kind of stuff happens more often than not. And that's why people have a negative reaction sometimes versus we only have positive reactions because we're quiet. We're respectful. And we don't do anything that causes them to get, you know, grouchy with us. I don't know.

Can we go out without weapons too? We don't have any guns on us and we're out because our woods here where we go, there's no bear. There's no cougar. There's no wolves. You know, there's coyotes running around, but they're not going to bother people. And so we really don't have need for weapons when we go out to protect ourselves. I hear you. And so at what point do you guys go to Tombstone?

Was there other encounters prior to this that happened? Oh, yeah. We've been doing this since my son was 13. He's almost 21 now. And we were in Tombstone two years ago. So we've been doing it for five years before we ever went to Tunstone. Tombstone. And Tombstone was just the vacation. We were, he's always wanted to go on a cross-country road trip ever since he saw the movie RV when he was a little kid. And so his high school graduation president, him and I got a RV. And we went six weeks out west going to 12 national parks, national monuments. We went to Toonstone. We went to Roswell. We went to the field of dreams, baseball field and Iowa. So we did all these things, you know, all across the country. Sounds like a blast. It sounds like an absolute blast, you know. It was a great time.

That's the type of stuff money can't buy in life. You know what I mean? Exactly. Well, we'll get to Tombstone in a moment. But tell me about the next time you actually saw them. Were you with your son? Can you walk me into the next time you were in the same area? The very next time we were back to our original area, and it was my son who had the

sighting, not me. Now, between the two of us over the last years, eight years, we've had probably two dozen sightings. From square on looking at them eye to eye to we see one quickly walking through the brush, you know, or we see, you know, something run away, see one run away. So things like that. My son has actually had a daylight sighting 20 feet away, one step out from behind a tree and look square at him. And they stood there and looked at each other. So I haven't had that great of a sighting. All my sightings have been at night. But so we were back in our old area. It was in the winter and we had a fire this an old rusty campground way back in the woods and we had a fire

pit and my buddy gregg was there and my son and i and they went down into a hollow to just look around because we kept hearing noises from down on his hollow and so as they went down there i'm standing at the fire pit and i'm the kind of person i don't get creeped out in the woods i don't get freaked out i I don't get feelings of dreads or feelings like I'm being watched. You know, I guess I'm just thick-headed and don't feel that kind of stuff. And all of a sudden, this is the only time I got creeped out. And I started feeling very, very uncomfortable. And I kept looking to my left and behind me, but I wouldn't, my body would not look to my right.

So I'm just, I'm not standing here by myself. So I walked around the fire. And as I started to go over the hill and go down into the hollow, my son turned and looked at me and his eyes popped open. And I was like, what is it? He goes, dad, one walk just behind you. And one had walked from to my right where he was squatted down behind some bushes. We found the area where he had pushed the bush, the long grasses of stuff down, was squatted. And he walked right behind me across the trail as I was walking, starting to go down the hill.

And my son said it made me look like a baby. He was so big. And the only thing we can think of down there, we could smell that irony, protein, smell of fresh blood is there was a kill and he was going for dinner and he didn't care if somebody saw him or not. He was going to go eat. Was your son able to give you descriptions as far as face or was it too far away? No, no, it wasn't. It was probably, he was probably 40, 50 feet away, but there was a, he was between the fire and my son. Okay, so he was like solid black because there was a bright

light behind him. Oh, I got to. So my son couldn't see detail on me either because I'm just the dark figure coming down the thing. But we knew there was a branch above the trail that to the branch was 10 feet. And my son said his head was above that branch. So now that could be the angle he's looking up the hill. So it could have been much smaller.

But it was solid. He knows it was solid. It wasn't a spirit. You know, he couldn't see through it. It was definitely something moving. And that thing, he moves so quiet. I should I say he? It could have been a she.

Moves so quiet. I couldn't hear him. And they were right behind me. According to my son, he said he was, he could have reached down and snapped my neck if he wanted to. He was that close to me. So that's, and I couldn't get Jack back in the woods for about a year. Oh, after that. He was like, uh-uh, no, I don't want to go.

I don't want to go. I don't want to go. So. And then the next time I saw the white one, we were back. to that original place where we saw him. And we were sitting at the end. We had a little fire going. My buddy was sitting across the fire from me.

And his daughter was sitting in his truck with a lantern on. She was on a tablet. And the drive area is just big enough, about a 30, 40 foot radius circle where the lantern glow was just lighting up the foliage around the circle. And I'm sitting there looking. And in the bushes, there's like a break. And the white one is standing in the bushes watching his daughter in the truck.

And he's looking at me and I'm looking at him and he looks at his daughter and we just keep looking at each other. This is going on for several minutes. And then Greg goes, what are you looking at? And I'm like, just turn around. And he turns around and he starts screaming and the foot drops down. He's gone. He disappears. And it looks like he's like, poof, he's gone.

Well, what he did is he dropped down and he belly crawled. and he was down the lower part of the bushes, and I could see the firelight was eye shining him, and I would see him look at Greg's daughter and you see one eye, then he'd turn and look at me and I'd see both eyes, and he kept doing that for a couple minutes, then he got up and he left. So that was the second time we saw the white one.

Yeah, the white one always interests me. It makes you wonder if it's white hair or if they're albino. Do you have any takes on that? Do you have any theories on that? Well, I think it's, I think it's hair. I think it's just color of hair. I say white because it's simple, but he's more of a silver, grayish blonde. Oh, you know, you know that picture that, I think it's a hoax picture that somebody took

of a back of a big foot in the woods, supposedly a trail cam took it. Yeah, I think I know what's trying to do about. It was like down south, wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's what the coloring of the hair is. It's not like silver, like on a silver back gorilla. But it's like, you know, like a blonde who.

going started to go gray. Okay, you've ever seen like a man or a woman who's got blonde here who starts to go gray, how it starts to become a little silver mixed in with the blonde? Yeah, yeah. That's kind of what it looked like. Yeah. Why do you think that they're in that area that you guys are going into? Is it, is there anything?

It's a very large natural area. It's a nature preserve. So it's about 10,000 acres. So it's just got, I think there's six or seven lakes down there, lots of streams, out of swamps. So it's just a great area for them. It's abundant in food, water, cover. That's where they like to go. Yeah, I know the more you get into this topic and you may agree or disagree with me, Jim, but it gets weird. It seems like it gets weirder and weirder and weirder as you get into this topic. When you're out there, have you ever heard them vocalize

like the chatter beyond whoops or have you heard them vocalize it all out there? Yes. Yeah. When we started my first year doing this um Greg's like well you need to go up by yourself and let them mess with you and see if you can actually handle doing this because beforehand it had always been out with his group and I was like all right I'll do that it's not a big deal so the I went to this one spot that's near was near our hot spot kind of in between that and the lake and I've probably two miles back into the woods on this dirt road and then it ends in a circle drive that backs up to that campground where we would build the fire at. That campground's about a mile away.

Okay. So when I'm back there, it's literally to the west is all woods, to the north is all woods, to the east is swamp. So I've parked my car there, and it's the night of a full moon, and it's in June. It would have been, what, seven years ago, this month. And I'm sitting there, and at 10 o'clock, when the moon starts to come up, I get whoop, whoop, whoop to my set. to myself. Then I get across the lake, because there's a lake back there, I get a whoop to the west. And I was like, okay, they're starting. Here we go. And then for about the next hour and a half, I would get a tree knock to my west. And then if you've ever done any yard work, you pick up something heavy and drop it on the grass, that thump sound it makes. I would get a thump to my north. And it was close. These guys were probably within 50 yards. It was where I could hear them. And it would go, knock, thump, knock, thump, knock, thump.

And it just kept doing it. Like, every two minutes, I'd get a sound. So my attention is going this way in west and north. And then he had to have been squatted down right in the swamp on the other side of my car. And I got the samurai chatter. And it was loud. And it scared the bejibers out of me. It made me jump out of my skin.

And I turned around and just popped my flashlight on. There was nothing there. And I started laughing. And I'm like, okay, you got me with that one. and then it went back to knock thump, knock thump. And I'm thinking, what the heck is going on here? What are they doing? And then right about 11 o'clock, crack.

And I hear a tree fall. And I was like, okay. And then I heard a big loud whoop from the north. And everything went quiet. Everything was done. It was like dad was telling the kids, that's enough time to come home kind of thing. And then a possum come out and walked across the little area.

So a little animal started wandering around. I started hearing raccoon chatter and stuff like that. And the next night I went back to that spot because I had to see that tree break. And I walked up into the woods. And I found on the other side of the brush that surrounds that area, I found a game trail. And right on that game trail was a freshly snapped tree. And I'm looking around and I turned and looked back to the road. and there was a perfect window opening in the brush

where a foot could stand there and see me down on the road. So I was like, I wonder if I could see him. So I took a glow stick and I tied a glow stick into the brush right there and I ran down to the road and I couldn't see the glow stick because of the angle was just right where I would not be able to see him but he'd be able to look down on me. So I thought that was pretty interesting.

Yeah, that was going on. Yeah. Yeah. So we've heard the whoops. heard voices right at the edge of our hearing. We've heard samurai chatter. We've also been spoken to in English on one occasion. What do you mean? What do you mean when he said that? What happened? Okay. We were out in a new area and we did a thing for a while. We would do live broadcasts on YouTube of our Bigfoot hunts. And, you know, we would get 600,000 people watching it.

And it was just for fun to see what was going on. It was the first one and the app that we had on the phone that we were using had to be reset every five minutes. You had to reset the stream. Okay. So we would, nothing was going on. And then we'd go reset it and we'd hear a wood knock. We're like, what's going on? And then we'd go reset it again and we hear a whoop.

And they were making noise or walking around when we went to the phone to reset it. every single time. So they figured out what we were doing. And neither of that, they're probably, oh, they could understand what we were saying. When we'd say, okay, guys, we'll be right back. We've got to go reset the phone. So later on the night, about probably 10.30 or so,

Greg goes to reset the phone. As he starts the reset, we hear this big, deep, rough voice go, hello. And we look at each other and we went, hello. And the voice goes, hello, hello. and we just threw our arms up in the air. We were so excited. We're like, hello, hello. And he didn't respond at that point.

And so then we started saying, are you okay? Do you need help? We're thinking it was a hiker that something had happened. They've gotten hurt. And no response, no response. And where we were at for someone to come upon us to speak to us in Michigan, because I don't know if you've been here, our woods are briars and brambles and undergrowth.

You don't move quietly through our woods. It's just not possible unless you're in a pine forest. And somebody would, I mean, somebody would have had to come up on us in the dark through all that undergrowth without us hearing no flashlight. Okay, but we're like, fine, trying to find out if that's a person that needs help. And nothing responded. So I told Greg, I said, I'm going to go take a look. So I started walking towards where the voice came from. And I got about 10, 15 feet from the undergrowth and I got growled at.

And it was a very deep in the chest, low, rumbling growl where I felt the growl. And I just kind of danced my little butt right back up, you know, to the base camp. And he looked at me, he goes, what happened? I just got growled at. So he goes, I want to go see. So he walks down there and he gets growled at. And he comes running back. He goes, I just got growled at too.

So that's where we've been, we were said hello to. And it was very clearly a hello. And it was loud. and it was big. Yeah, and to be honest with you, that doesn't shock me that much. I'm sure to the audience, it would. But you hear a lot of accounts where they call people's dogs or they'll call people's names. I've had many people on the show that.

They said it was calling my dog, you know, or it was calling my name. Yeah, they can imitate us, too. They're excellent mimics. And you'll hear them calls. I've heard a friend of mine, her kids. would say, Mom, why are you calling us? She's like, I'm not calling you.

I'm over here. And the foot would be in the woods calling her kids' names. So, and you need not to be careful with them with kids because, you know, they have their own culture. They have their own laws, as a friend of mine says, but they're not our culture and they're not our laws. And when they see a child alone, she says they see it as in trouble and it needs help.

And so they try to take it to help it. They don't understand that our kids just go outside and play by themselves, you know, or play with their friends or stuff like that. So sometimes when the kids are around, you've got to be careful if you're in a foot area with little kids because there have been a lot of instances of little children disappearing, you know, and they don't mean harm. They're just thinking the kid. According to who, though, means that they don't mean harm. And where do they get that information? Well, my friend Robin, you know, that's what she's been told. That's what she's witnessed is.

But told by who? Well, just people that she's witnessed have, you know, with this happening, I shouldn't say, maybe it's wrong for me to say they don't mean harm, but the children are never, when they're found, they're not harmed. They're cold, they're hungry. The ones who have died, they die of exposure because humans aren't meant to live in the woods. You know, so, I mean, to say some of the children that are found were never harmed. And they say, you know, they say the people don't harm them. Yeah, and I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to break your balls on it. Yeah. A human can't eat raw meat and survive. A human can't eat twigs and leaves and survive. You know, we don't have the fur to cover our bodies or the hair to cover our bodies to keep us warm at night. So. Yeah, I understand. And I'm not trying to give you a hard time on it. I just sometimes you hear statements like that from people. It's like, well, I've been told this is our culture. Well, who told you that? I mean, where did they get that information from? Yeah. And, you know, sometimes, as you and I agreed in the beginning, sometimes the bad things. happen. And it's not necessarily like, I'm going to go help this kid out because he's run right. You know, that does happen. I've had encounters on the show where absolutely one of these things saved. I remember a kid was, he's a grown man now, but he got stuck in a swamp. And one did help him out. It didn't take him, but it pulled him out of the swamp. But there is

situations too, you know, because I always worry a lot of kids listen to the show. And, you know, you don't quite, just because someone says something doesn't quite mean, because we don't know enough about them. You know what I mean? Despite what people will tell you, they don't know anything. No one knows anything. Well, if you're a little kid, if you're a little kid and there's a foot in the area, don't go. I mean, I don't care if the foot seems like it's friendly. If it's calling your name, you don't go to it.

You know, kids have to be, you know, they have to be a little bit more self-preserving in that sense of just you should run in the house and go get your mind. I'm a dad. Yeah. You know, or just go in the opposite direction. You know, I wouldn't run because then, you know, a prey instinct could kick in. You don't know. Yeah, you're right. You're right.

And that's the thing. I mean, and I'm going to cut you off, Jim. But you're right. I mean, most of the time, they won't harm you. Most of the time, they'll get up and leave. Or they're curious and they watch kids. But there's a lot of kids that vanish and never heard from again. And I'm not saying Sasquatch did it.

But there is some very. very peculiar incidences where bad things happen. But I understand what you're saying. I mean, I just get nervous when people make comments like, well, this is, it's in their culture. And it's like, well, who told you it's in their culture? And I'm not talking to you. I mean, the person I told you that.

I kind of have to wonder, too, some of the kids were missing if maybe it wasn't a female whose baby died, you know, and she wanted a new baby. And she saw a little kid and said, oh, there's my new baby and grabbed it. You know, it could be, it could be a situation. like that. Could be. Yeah, absolutely. It could be. It could be, hey, that looks like a good hamburger meal to me. No, a good meal right there. Let's grab that kid and eat it tonight. You know, who knows what it is. But like you said, but you do have to be careful. You know, I can say, sit here and say, we've had positive experiences. That's all we've had and we have. But that doesn't mean we go dancing

through the woods with candles and sleeping out in the open in the middle of the woods. You know, we're still very cautious and very careful. I don't follow a voice. I don't follow voices in the woods. You know, we've heard voices in the woods. I don't go to voices in the woods and check them on. If I'm in an area where I'm on a trail and we only use areas for we're on a trail or we know that area really well, I don't go off the trail. You know, I'm not going to be stupid. Yeah, and I'm glad that you said that because, you know, sometimes bad things do happen. I mean, are they all bloodthirsty killers? No. Most of the time they'll get a lot.

up and walk away. But, you know, and it is interesting that you've only had really positive experiences, you know, beyond being growled out. But as you and I agree, I think that's more or less like, get away from me, back up a little bit. You know, even dogs do that. They'll growl out. They want you to back up. And it may be simple, the simple thing of we have always respected that distance. If we get, what would you consider a negative reaction of growl or a bluff charge, we back out of there and we leave. And so that kind of, you know, it sets the precedent that we respect that that persons or that beings wish to be left alone.

Smart. You know, we don't push into them. Yeah. Because some people do push. Some researchers do push. And I hate to break it to everyone out there. There are no match for these things. These things get really pissed off.

You're no match. I wanted to ask you in that area, have you ever seen the lights, the bulks? the balls of light people talk about Oh, why'd you have to bring that up? Well, hey, I've seen them, man. We have this place. We went there one night, and it's called, we call it Ghost Park.

It's a little nature preserve right off the highway, and that stretch of highway through there is one of the most deadly stretches of highway in Michigan. Because there's three highways that merge together, there's exits, and so there's always a lot of accidents right in there. And, you know, he, Greg was like, let's go check out this place. I bet there's foot back there. So we're back there.

And we, we don't see any sign of foot, but we kept seeing red and green balls of light in the woods floating around. And as we were, we found coyote tracks. We found deer tracks. And as we were looping through the park, we saw a white ball of light in front of us. And we got back to the cars and we saw that white ball of light. again in a little bit different spot on the trail. So, you know, Greg's like, you stay here and watch me, and I'm going to go check it out. He walked down there in the trail forks, and he goes to the left where the ball of light was,

and the ball of light had gone. And it literally looked like he was standing in the middle of a vortex. Describe that for me. What do you mean vortex? He went blurry, and it looked like he was starting to disappear. I'm sitting there going, am I seeing it. in this. And he was on a cell phone when we were talking on the phone and I'm like, what are you feeling right now? He goes, it's warmer because it was probably 28 degrees out.

It was in wintertime. He goes, I feel warmer because I don't feel the cold like I was. I said, because you look like you're standing inside of a tornado to me. He goes, really? And I said, yeah, it looks like there's energy spinning around you. And he didn't know. That's all he could feel is it felt a little bit warmer. man then he came then he came back up and he's that was crazy that is how big was a ball of light that you saw all three of them i mean were they well the one the red and green ones if you're standing and looking into the woods probably like softball size and the white one was probably a baseball size of light but that's not our only we've had multiple instances the craziest one

we had was a night where we had things going on that we had stuff going on all around us. We actually went on a hike this night, and we hiked back into a swamp. And as we got to the swamp, we got into the swamp and there was a footbridge that the D&R Department of Natural Resources have put across this one wetter area so people could continue walking. And the third guy with us was up the hill, not quite to the swamp. Greg was squatted down on the bridge at the swamp And I continued up the hill Away from the swamp

And Jeremy says I've got one standing right here I could see him He's looking at me from around a tree And Greg says I've got one throwing rocks at me So I turn around And I say come back down the hill

I can see the back side of the swampy area And right at the brush line I can see the one that's throwing rocks at Greg He's huge His shoulders are probably three, three and a half feet wide, and he had the prettiest black sable hair. It was so shiny and so well manicured and well kept. And I'm sitting there watching him lobbying stones at Greg over the top of the brush. I saw the muscles in his shoulder and back rippling as he would toss the stones over the brush at Greg.

And me being blonde and not being too smart sometimes, I don't take out my camera, my phone and take a picture. I yell, hey Greg, I can see the one throwing rocks at you, right? Like an idiot. So he drops down and was gone. And I walked down the hill about level where he would have been. I said, I was talking to Greg. He's probably 20 feet away. I said, I could see. I can sit there and watch him throwing rocks at you. And Greg goes, do you take a picture? I said, no, I'm an idiot. Of course I didn't take a picture. And I stood there and I said, you know, you big, I said, you big dumb idiot. This is when I was still back in my days.

They were just big dumb apes. I said, I saw you throwing rocks. Why don't you just come out here and show yourself to me? So I'm basically challenging him. And it sounded like a herd of buffalo coming through that underbrush after me. It was just crash, pop, you know, snap. And I went sprinting back to where Greg and Jeremy were. And he was like, what are you running so fast for?

I said, I just got bluff charged. I said, that thing, whatever that was, that's a scary sound when they're coming to the brush at you. And you can't see anything because it's Michigan. It's so thick and it's so green. So probably half an hour later I got the urge and the courage back up and I walked back up there. And I kind of poked my way in around behind the brush. And laying behind the brush was a pile of sticks that had been snapped. So he literally just sat there and snapped a bunch of sticks really fast.

it made it sound like he was coming to the underbrush at me. And so I started laughing. I thought that was pretty funny. And then that night as we were walking out, we kept seeing the white bigfoot on the trail in front of us, almost like he was leading us out. And we got to an area of the forest and on the ridge line, we called it, you know how Native Americans will walk single file?

Yeah. So you don't see me out with somebody. There were three things walking on the ridgeline single file. And the nearest we could figure by the size of them stuff, that it was probably spirits. And we had foot all around us as we were walking out. We could hear them walking with us. We could hear them chattering back and forth. We think they were kind of escorting us out because whatever was up on that hill wasn't good.

It was a dark entity of some sort. When you say... When you say... I mean, cut off, when he says... spirits what made you think there were spirits up the three? Just by how they were moving and the size of them they were man size and they weren't walking, they were

kind of floating. You know, so it was a real, real smooth walk and you're not going to walk smooth in the Michigan woods. It's rough terrain. You're stepping over logs, you're stepping through brush and stuff like that. And they were just moving way too easy.

And they looked spirit. You know, they weren't completely solid, anything like that. So that's why we think they were spirits. And as we were coming up the trail, we got stopped by Boy Scouts coming down the trail. They were out there doing a night mapping of the woods, learning how to do that. And so we're standing and they're talking to them. We don't warn them about this stuff because, you know, they're fine. They've got their adults with them, let them have their experience. And as we're standing there, we look and there's a bright ball of light coming through the woods at us. Now, you know how like on

Star Trek when they shoot out a sensor called it kind of flutters. The white light will flutter and rotate. Yeah. Okay? That's what we see coming to the woods and it's the size of a basketball. And these trails are used by mountain bikers. So we see it, we're like, hey, everybody step out of the

way, it's a mountain biker because we think it's the headline of a bicycle coming as. So we step up the trail and this light, we hear it crash and it goes out. So we go running back down the trail thinking a bicycle rider had waved out And there's nothing there.

Yeah, it's so strange. The lights really bother me. What's your opinion on what do you think the lights are? That, you know, almost every Bigfoot researcher, whether they will admit it publicly or not, most of them might have talked to have seen the lights. What do you think that they are, Jim? I think they're just spirit energy. I really do.

I just think they're energy wells. They could be spirit. They could be energy. I don't think they're UFO probes or anything like that. I don't think they're... the big foot manifested as a light energy. I just think there's spirit energy. You know, just an unexplained energy floating around the woods.

Maybe it's from people who have died there. I know that area that we go to. There was a Native American tribe there a couple hundred years ago that was slaughtered in that area by settlers. So it could be, you know, spirit energy from that. Who else? That's kind of what I think. Yeah, it's unnerving to run into that light, wouldn't you agree?

I mean, it's kind of like, what is this? Yeah, yeah, I wouldn't say that that night in Ghost Park, I would not say that made me feel comfortable, seeing those red and green lights off in the woods like that, and then seeing that vortex thing that Greg was standing in, that definitely did not make me feel comfortable. I did not like that. I don't like deal.

I mean, I've been on a lot of ghost hunts, and I think they're fun if they're the right type, but I don't like to deal with spirits when I'm just out in the woods. That's not my thing. I don't blame you. Did Greg, I'm assuming his name's Greg, did he, was there any effect from him standing in that light? No, no, he was.

Well, when he got down to that spot where the vortex was, the light was gone. The light had already dissipated out. But as he was standing there, then all of a sudden we start to see this spin around him. That's a good way to describe it. It was like a spinning energy around him. So. Yeah, that's strange, man. Very strange.

What's the, and it sounds like But as you do this, you go farther down the rabbit hole. You know, the more you're in the woods, the more you're out there at night, the more you're out there trying to learn from these people, the more strange stuff happens to you. And strange stuff happens around you. Yeah, you're right. The longer you get into this, the weirder and weirder it seems to get.

And there's a lot of weird things that people run into. I always say I've heard it all, and then someone will come along and tell me something and I'll be like, well, I've never heard that before. But it is interesting because when that happens, all of a year down the road, someone will say something, and it's exactly what the person prior told you. What's the weirdest thing you've ran into? It could be Bigfoot, not Bigfoot.

What's the weirdest thing you've ran into while you're out in these woods? I think it was the night we saw the light and heard it crash, and there was nothing there. I think that's probably the strangest thing. You know, I had a night with a front of, friend a couple years ago, she's a traveling college professor, and she used to live up here. And she has a clan in the woods by her house, and we would go out in the woods. And there's a place back in the forest where you literally feel like you're walking into a church. You just get this

feeling of reverence when you walk back in there. We've never been able to figure out why. And there was a December, a couple years ago, we were, her and I went back in there on winter solstice night, and it looked like a hundred red, white, and blue fireflies popping off all around us that night. It was just, it was crazy. And we probably saw a foot three, four times that night. We'd see them standing off in the distance between trees. You know, we'd see their outlines, you know, see them in the dark, their dark shadow. And we just constantly see them just standing there watching us from probably, you know, 100 yards, 100 feet away. And but that was just crazy.

Just, you know, these white and blue lights just popping off all around us in the forest. Yeah, it is weird. It's really weird. And I always wonder sometimes that the lights are directly involved with Sasquatch. Because a lot of times people have these things, and I don't know, but what I'm saying is a lot of times people have these things on their property. And if it, if the encounters go on for a certain period of time, I'll just bring it up and say, have ever seen the lights? Everyone says yes.

I'd be yet to have someone tell me no. People who have them on their property. So I always wonder, is there some weird correlation between these lights and Sasquatch? Because I'm with you, there was a time where it was an ape, it's an ape, it's a damn dirty ape we can't catch up with. And the longer you get into this, the weirder it gets. And if you just knew into this subject, all this sounds like bizarre a world. Yeah. I think you have to accept a couple universal truths.

And these are proven. These are science fact. They're not science fiction. The first one is that the human eye only sees 20% of the visible light spectrum. That means there's 80% of visible light out there that we're not seen. Okay. So who knows what's in that 80%. The second thing that we're going to be.

we have to accept and it's the truth is that everything in this universe is made up of energy. And energy has vibration and frequency. These are proven by physics and by science. So this is not anything, you know, woo, who are out there. And if you look at just a natural world, a tiger with its roar is able to send a ultrasonic pulse and infrasound, I think they call it, and stun its prey. You have animals that can change, like chameleons, that can change their appearance,

you know, the color of their skin, the blended of their surroundings. You have animals in the natural world that can manipulate themselves or manipulate the environment around them. So I think once you understand that, there's stuff out there that we don't, we haven't discovered, I mean, they're discovering, what is it,

20 new species a day in the world between insects and fish and mammals. Something like 20 new species a day. dare being discovered. So we don't know what's really in the woods because most of the stuff disappears and we're around because we don't have a very good reputation. I don't think of the natural world as human beings because we tend to destroy. And I think if we understand those universal truths, what starts to seem like bizarre a world

isn't bizarre a world. It's just science we haven't discovered yet is how I look at. I got you. You know, a lot of people talk about big foot cloaks. is it cloaking or do they have psychic abilities where they can mess with your mind and make you think they disappear? Or maybe do they have the ability to alter their vibration where our eyesight can't see them anymore? You know, I mean, have you ever seen your dog sit and just stare into space in a room? Yeah.

Or sit outside and just stare and not, you don't know what they're looking at. You can't see anything or a cat, but they can see something. You know, my dog used to sit in my back door and stare up at night. Okay, he's not seeing squirrels, the squirrels aren't out at night. You know, there's no birds out flying around. There's no life forms out there, but he's staring up. And that's, that's unnerving when your dog does stuff like that. You're like, what are you looking at?

You walk over here and you don't see anything. It is unnerving. And even in a lot of hauntings, people who have poultry ice activity, the dog will start growling at nothing. Right. So, yeah, I mean, there might be something to that. I really want to hear the Tombstone story. So tell me, you go down to Tombstone.

You're on this road trip. Well, before that happens, the full story is we had met a woman who was a psychic through some friends of ours. And we were with them at a friend's property up north of a hunting property. And she was talking to them about their clans and just, you know, relaying information because she was speaking with the clan through Mindspeak. And my son and I are just kind of sitting there looking at each other like, oh my God,

what's going on here? You know, she was pleasant with us, but not really, didn't really say anything Bigfoot related to us. And she turns and she looks at us and she goes, just so, you know,

there will be a big foot following you on your trip. Because we had been talking about our trip, you know, we were taken. And he's going to watch over you guys. We were like, we got in the car to go home. We were like,

yeah, Okay, whatever. You know, woo, woo, woo, woo going on there. And so we get on the trip and nothing's happening. I mean, we go through the whole trip and tombstones towards the end. It's in July. And we were in town and we decided they had the Watton Tarber Undertaker building, which is a paranormal group runs it.

They do nightly ghost hunts where you actually get to use their equipment and do a real ghost hunt. It's not like a tour of the town. Okay. So we thought that was pretty cool. We wanted to do that. Now, we get to town, and when you're in Tombstone, you know this. You've been there, right? Yeah, I love Toonstone.

Yeah, I wanted to move there. Allen Street, which is the main street through town is still the dirt road. You can't park on Allen Street. You can't drive on Allen Street. So you have to park at the end in the public parking. So we get there, we whip in. We're the only car in the parking lot. So I whip into the parking spot and we get out and we go to Big Nose Cates for dinner.

We have a couple burgers. And then we go back down to the undertakers. and it was we're signing in the woman asked me she says are you guys not going to run out here scared when you see a ghost are you and I said no nothing much scares us we've been on we've done ghost hunts in the Waverly Hill Sanatorium in Louisville and we do we do we do bigfoot hunts and she got all excited she's like bigfoot really she starts telling me about her parents sighting up in the mountains in Arizona it's our cottage and I was like oh okay

And, you know, people do that to me. Oh, I saw a Bigfoot. And they tell me, I'm not interested. I really don't care. And so I'm just being nice and listening. And she asked me, she says, where do you guys do your Bigfoot research? And I said, we're from Michigan. That's all I said.

Now, if you look me up on social media, there's nothing there. I don't put much Bigfoot stuff on my social media. I stay under the radar. And I definitely don't put where I go, the locations I go to. So we get into the night. We go through the, you're doing an investigation. You know, the ovulus is working. We have spirits talking to the obelous voice box.

She has a computer where she has another voice box system. And she's, you know, stuff's coming through a speaker. And I'm watching that. And I'm starting to get skeptical because how do I know she's just not typing, you know, responses in and it's coming to the speaker. Some kind of paying attention every time we get a voice if her hands are moving. And we see a spirit walk across the front of the building. We have voices coming through. We had supposedly Morgan Earp came through and talked.

Fred White, the sheriff that was shot by Curly Bill, came through and spoke to us. We had cowboys asking for drinks. We had female voices asking for cigarettes. So we had a lot of activity going on. And we had also taken a flashlight. They have these small flashlights that screw around in the back. And you unscrew it just a little bit and the spirits can tighten it and make the flashlight turn on. And we put that back at the undertaker table back in the back of the building.

And that flashlight hadn't come on all night. So we get to the end of the night and she says, Jim, can I ask a question? And I started laughing. I'm like, yeah, go ahead. And she says, have any of the spirits here ever seen a big foot? And a spirit comes through and says, yep. And she responds, she says, really, here in Arizona, in Tombstone? Yep.

and she goes she goes here in Arizona he says yep she goes here in Tunisone no he says here and she says here he goes yes she says in the building and he says yes and she says what does he look like

and the big the spirit says he's big he's tall and he's hairy and when he says that a female voice comes through and says we're scared and my son goes What are you scared of? And she said, we're scared of Jim and Jack.

They brought the Bigfoot. Which that was just like in our minds because we remember back to this person telling us a Bigfoot was going to go on vacation with us. And we so she asked the Bigfoot, she says, you know, Mr. Bigfoot, she said, Mr. Bigfoot, she said, if you're here, turn that flashlight on. And the flashlight went on in the back of the building. and the guy one of the guys that was sitting there goes oh i got to go see this thing he got up and went to go to the back and got about 10 feet and said i can't go back there something stopping me he goes

i'm scared to death to go back there and he comes back and he sits down and i i got up and i walked back there just fine and there's nothing back there and i turned the flashlight off and come back and i said i said you know she says mr bigfoot if jim and jack want to find you where do they need to go. And this really deep, rough voice comes across the obulus, and it says the location where we do most of our big foot hunting at. So at that point, I knew right there that she wasn't typing in responses to come to the speaker because she didn't know where we do our big fun hunting at because I didn't tell her.

And it's not any place where she could have found in the five minutes by doing a quick research on me. So we thought that was pretty interesting. and he said his name. He told us his name, which I'm not going to say. And I said, I said, you know, you're Mr. Bigfoot. I said, we're not here for you. Okay, we're here to talk with the spirits. We need you to leave.

Please step outside the building. And she asked, she goes to Bigfoot gone. And a spirit comes here and said, yep, he's out front. So I got up and I ran out to the front of the building to see if I could see one out in the street. And there wasn't obviously anything there. and we basically wrapped up the night probably 10, 15 minutes later, and she was just beside herself. She couldn't believe that happened.

The other people that were there were freaking out. And my son and I were walking out. We're like, what the heck? And Jack goes, you know, the person we met, the psyche we met, she's legit. You know, she told us this was going to happen. I said, I know. That's kind of weird. And we get back to my car.

Now, remember, we just whipped into the parking spot and got out and went into town. there was a 16 foot long steel pole with two pieces of rebar shoved through it laying right next to my car to the point that we had to move it out of the way just to be able to back out of that parking spot. Now, I couldn't lift it by myself and I'm a big guy. My son's a big guy. It took both of us lifting it to just slide it out of the way so we could back out. We get back to the campground, which is about a mile away.

I go in the camper and sit there and read. My son goes to the bathroom to get ready for bed. and I'm sitting there reading and I look up and there's a big foot looking in the window of the camper at me. And I just looked down and I said, hey, big guy, what are you doing? He backed away. My son comes back from the bathroom, gets in bed, rolls over, puts his back to me, doesn't say a word. And that morning we got up and I said, so Jack, you know, how'd you sleep last night? He goes, I didn't.

He goes, I was thinking about everything that happened last night. I said, yeah, I kind of had a rustle this night too. He said, Dad, when I was coming back from the bathroom, I swear to God, there was a big foot stand. standing outside the camp or looking in the window. And I said, there was. I saw him. I saw him too. And it got a little weirder as when we got home.

I was talking, a friend of mine did a Bigfoot show on YouTube. And he wanted to hear the story. So I was on telling that story. It was about 11 o'clock at night. And I'm sitting on my, in my kitchen table telling him the story. And I looked at my patio door and I see a foot face pushing through the screen looking at me. Like a little kid does, you know, when they, walk up to a screen, they put their face into it to look around.

Now, the thing is, is at the top of my patio door, I'm 6'2. So if you stand on the ground outside my patio, that's a good eight and a half feet off the ground where his face was. So, and I looked at him and I waved and he stepped back. And the next morning I went out and I found a pair of 19.5 inch prints in my guard. So I mentioned, which I had pictures of. So I thought that whole thing was just pretty weird. It is weird, man.

And pretty cool, and pretty cool. Here's a funny thing, though. I talked to Stacey yesterday from a place out there, and I said, I don't know if you remember me. She goes, oh, yeah, I remember that night very well, and we still talk about it here. So that left the mark on them. That shows they weren't just trying to scam me if they still talk about it. Yeah, that's pretty cool. The face that you saw, what did it look like?

Was it human? Was it? Okay. when I saw him looking in the camper, he had kind of reddish hair. I don't want to say white skin, but it was tan,

like a tanner skin. Okay. The eyes were very human. The nose was a little bit broad. Okay? Not flat and broad like you would see on an eight. But it wasn't a narrower nose like a human does. It was kind of in between.

And he had what would look almost human mouth. So he didn't have no lips like an ape has, but he had lips on a wide mouth. And there was no hair on his face unless it was like right around his jawline, which I really couldn't tell on the dark. You know, he could just barely see the light that was shining on him. Yeah. So I couldn't see everything. And then that face that pushed into my screen door was the same face. It was him again. And it was the one, I think it was the one who was there in Tombstone with us. I think he just followed us back. I don't, I don't know how they follow us. I don't know anything about that. I don't know if it's a coconut telegraph or they said one in

Tombstone to go check us out. I don't know. But it was weird that somebody said one was going to follow us and then one shows up in Tombstone. You know, when we're doing a ghost hunt. That was just very, very odd. Yeah, let me ask you. And I find it fascinating. I think I told you when I was in Texas, there's a guy there that does ghost hunting and he was in an area and they had an EVP, he had his EVP set up and, you know, I was just being a wise ass I said, to ask him if there's any big foot around the area, or if they've

ever seen a big foot. And it came back and said, yes, they're very destructive. And I thought that was fascinating. You know, and I don't think the guy was fooling me because I sat and watched him. He wasn't around it when the thing went off. But it does make you,

does it concern you at all? Well, let me ask you this first. What do you think Sasquatch is? You know, through time and through learning and being, you know, having interaction with them, I really believe they are in ancient people that they've been around here a long time, just like us. And I believe that's what they are. I'm not going to say there's, you know, Native Americans will tell you that they're a spirit, some say they're a spirit animal. Some, they're just flesh and blood. it's odd isn't it that native american culture every native american tribe has a name for Sasquatch yeah and they have a different view point you're talking about you talk about ones that

are living in northern Maine have a name for Sasquatch and ones who live in Washington state described the same creature these people didn't travel cross country and meet each other you know these tribes didn't really you know tribes in the southwest you got the hairy man who the Navajo, they didn't talk to tribes in Florida. So that that we know of. It's just odd that every culture has one, has a name for one. That right there to me gives a lot of creeds that they exist because they're not going to talk about something living in the woods that's not real.

Yeah, you're right. And a lot of them have different opinions on them, too. Some say they're killers. Right, there's stories of Native Americans actually living in and with Saskwell. There's stories of them trading with Sasquash. There's stories, I mean, Eric the Red, the Viking, when he came to the, when he was in Nova Scotia, landed in the late 900s. He described the foul-smelling wild men that were accosting his group.

So, you know, okay, what's that? So there's stories of them all throughout history. And there's stories of them, like you said, some are more aggressive. some are less aggressive, some are their trading, some are, you know, living in among them, some are, you know, they're lonely and they're solitary. You know, one of the Native American tales is that when white man came to America, they call us the, what do they call us, the violent little people. When we came, they backed away, back into the forest.

And that's, you know, that's a Native American lore. And Native Americans also say that you don't find Bigfoot. Bigfoot finds you. Yeah. They connect to you. Yeah, a lot of the natives, it depends on their relationship with the creatures. A lot of them say they'll take your kids and your women and eat them. Yep.

You know, so they all kind of, I think it depends on their interaction with them. But you're right, it does go. I remember Leaf Erickson. That's a fascinating account. If everyone gets a chance to go read that account, it's very fascinating. Yeah, I said Eric the Red. It's Leaf Erickson. You're right.

You know, it's funny. because the Chippewa tribe and the Potawatomi and the Ojibuay here in Michigan, they account them as spirit beings. Nonviolent, but they're spirit beings. That's what they're not flesh and blood to our tribes here. If you go down to Kentucky, you know, in Tennessee, they're violent. You know, I've heard stories from down that area that they're violent and they'll attack. And like you said, they'll take your children, your women and eat them and things like that. That's what the tribes down there say.

So it's interesting. It is. It's kind of like the Bigfoot world, isn't it? The Native Americans, it depends on what tribe you talk to, depending on the story you're going to get, you know, as far as their interactions go. Can I ask you, and I don't mean to be a wise ass asking this question, but can I ask you a very direct question? Yeah. Does it concern you at all? You go in there, and Tombstone, by the way, is a very haunted place. I've been like the bird cage there, a bird cage theater is, I got the heby-jeebies when I walked into that place.

But, so I know it goes on there, right? At least I assume it goes on there. Does it concern you at all that you are talking to dead spirits? And then you, and then all of a sudden there's a Sasquatch there and he's talking to you. Do you think either, I know you don't feel like the people fooled you, do you feel like maybe the spirits were trying to fool you, trying to pull a fast one on you? You know, I've thought about that, and I've run that through my head. We were taught my son and I were talking about that the next day, as a matter of fact.

But the psychic that we know who can mind speak with them, she confirmed who it was that was there, and that he's from the clan that we go visit down in the, where we do most of our research. So she was able to confirm that. Now, she's said things to me that there is literally no way she could know. And told me stories about me when I was growing up that there's no way she could know that because I don't have it posted on social media.

I haven't told her that. You know, stories I haven't even told my son. And she's told me these things. So she kind of, to me, she has legitimacy to me. And I don't say that like that. because I'm not really one who believes in psychics and that kind of stuff because I think most of them are full of it and they just ask leading questions

to get information out of you, which is something she never does. She never asks leading questions. And so that's why I kind of, I kind of tend to listen when she tells me things because she's been right too many times. You know, she's warned me, hey, if you're going here to do this investigation,

do not go here. stay on this side of a gate, stay on this side of a barrier. Because if you go on the other side, there's dark stuff there. And that happened to us last fall. So, and I didn't listen,

and then I got scratched, and I listened. What happened? What do you mean you got scratched? There's a road here in Michigan, it's in Dan, out by Danesville, and it's seven Gables road,

and it's supposed to be the most haunted road in Michigan. And you drive in, it stops at a barrier, and then the road is now a two-track that loops around and comes out on the other side by a lake. And there's a barrier there at the end of that road because it's all on the state land and they don't want people driving on it. And so we were going to do a live broadcast Halloween night out there because when we listen to, you read the stories and you listen to witness accounts and stuff on YouTube, they talk about screams in the woods, they talk about seeing shadowy figures, hearing notes. always is of footsteps. And we were talking about him like, that sounds like Bigfoot too. You know,

so we wonder if these people aren't seeing, aren't having big foot encounters, and they just think it's spirits, right? So we go out there with the paranormal investigative team that does that area, the lead guy, and he's showing us around

and he shows us the hanging tree or supposedly the witch that lived out there hung herself and all these different things. And it was really interesting at the hanging tree in the crook of the branches about six feet up, there's a whole bunch of limbs stacked in there, tree limbs, just jammed in there from all different angles.

And we're looking at that, and that's very big foot, you know, to stack sticks up around a tree or put sticks in the crutch of a tree. And so we were like, okay, this looks like a big foot up there.

And I looked off into the brushy area, and there was a foot, a brown foot standing there, us. And I looked at him and he just kind of turned and walked into the denser woods where we couldn't see him. And I told him, I told Greg, I said, there was just a foot standing over there. He goes, yeah, I thought I saw him moving out of the corner of my eye too. And so we kept walking around and the guy was showing his stuff and, you know, trying to figure out where we're going to set our cameras and stuff up at. And we got back. We came out. We went home and I took my shirt off and I had

three deep scratches on my shoulder, which I didn't feel, didn't feel happen. And I won't tell you this too much of story about those. But we went out the next night. We did the investigation. I was talking to my friend about those. And she's like, do not cross that barrier. Do not go down that trail. You stay on the other side of that gate. Do not cross it. And I'm like, okay. And I'm like, okay, after having been scratched, I was not going to cross it. And we get there and we're doing an investigation and we could see things moving down on the trail. We could see it was spirit. You could definitely tell the spirit.

It was shadow people. And they're moving around. We could hear them talking. And all this stuff is, you know, you can, some of it you can actually hear and see on camera. The people that are watching at home could actually hear it and see it. And we're looking in Greg's camera and there's about 150 yards down the trail. there's a white ball of light about 20 feet off the ground. And I told him, I said, you've got to have dust on your camera lens.

So I got my phone out and I put my phone directly above his and that white ball of light was still on my phone. And we're like, he goes, I'm going to go look. He told me, goes, you go look. And I said, I'm not going across that barrier. I'm not going down there. I'm not messing with spirits. And so he went down there and he got about halfway. And he said, it looks like it's bouncing up and down.

And he goes, holy crap, he starts being pushed backwards. He's like, my feet are actually sliding backwards. I'm leaning into whatever's pushing me. Now, I don't know if he's telling me the truth or not, because I couldn't see him in the dark. But you could see the light going up and down a little bit. So that was that night out there. Yeah, it's interesting. I had a guy a couple episodes ago, and he was out at his parents' home.

I think it was in Georgia. and he walked up to the window and three balls of light were coming up to the window and then they started bouncing, kind of like how you're describing. And he blacked out when they got too close. Concerns me about the lights, I want to ask you a question. So when you're in Tombstone, you see what appears to be a Sasquatch. And then when you get home in Michigan, you see the same one. Do you think that there are spirits or do you think that they, I know you said earlier that, it's an ancient human.

And I'm trying to wrap my head around that. I hope you don't take my questioning. You know, and I ask myself the same questions, I honestly don't know. I don't know how they do that. I don't know how he did that. I mean, the face was the same. So.

Yeah, I believe you. And I'm not trying to drill. Don't take me as drilling you because I'm not. I'm just trying to wrap my head around. No, I'm just, I'm going to be straight with you. I have the same questioning questions you do. I just don't know. I haven't discovered that answer yet.

Did you ever have any poltergeist activity in the home after seeing that thing? No, no, no. I've never had any. Jack, if you were any ghost activity in his house? No. We never have that we can ever think of. So I don't know what's going on. You know, that was just weird that he was just standing here.

And then I found the footprints out in my garden. So. Well, and like I said, I mean, I've heard a lot of weird. weird things. I mean, I talk about the two brothers. And, and again, don't take me as drilling you. I'm not. I'm just trying to wrap my head around everything. And sometimes you can't, you know, because like when I had the two brothers on, they were convinced they were apes. They were going to start shooting them. And I'm telling you, that situation got weirder and weirder and weirder and weirder and weirder. And they did something similar. They called out a, I don't think she was a psychic.

I think they called her a spirit medium. Maybe it's the same thing. I don't know. And she had a lot of weird things to say about Sasquatch. A lot of strange things. And she was saying, don't interact with them. Don't take anything from them. If they gift you something, don't take it home with you, don't give them anything. And her opinion on, and they asked her, where are they coming from? And she said that they're coming up out of the earth. And again, you know, do you take her word for it? I don't know. But she has... had a lot of, and they saw a lot of weird things. I mean, a woman in white, a lot of bizarre things on their property. And it's just weird. A lot of times when you, people start on properties

specifically, or in areas like where you guys are going, where it's a specific area you guys keep going back to, you tend to run into more than just Sasquatch. A lot of weird things. You've never come across a dog man or any other strange entity while being out there, have you? Not that we know of. I had something really, really strange happened last week Monday. I was actually Monday at work. I drive for a living and I visit, you know, local communities. And there's a spot I come off the highway and I had to take this little shortcut on a dirt road to get to the main road I need to be on.

And I come across this dirt road, come around this curve and I see a flash of brown shoot across the road. road. And as it shoots across the road, I see the front half of a fawn fall, hit the ground, and bounce. And I pull up to the fawn and I stop and I look and it's the front half from about halfway up the rib cage, just behind the front legs. The blood is fresh. Everything from the chest cavity is gone. Like it's been pulled out. And it was a very clean cut through the fawn, like something very strong ripped it apart or something cutting. And I don't know what the flash was. My mind immediately thought it was

the deer. But I've seen deer run across the road in front of me at full tilt. And you can clearly see it's a deer. You can make out every detail of the deer. This was just a brown flash. And I'm kind of wondering, my mind went to, was that a dog man?

You know, just from that situation, because I don't think that was a foot. But it could have been a dog man. I don't know what it was. It was weird. And I think when you do Bigfoot, stuff like this happens to you. And it's more frequent. And I think it's because you just tend to notice it. Because we live in our own little world as humans.

We're completely ill-prepared to be out in nature. We don't have the eyesight. We don't have the hearing. We don't have the sense of smell that we need to survive in the woods. And I think when you are out and you do, maybe you're a ghost hunter, or maybe you're a UFO, you've followed, you've, how we pronounce it, or maybe you're a big footer. I think you become more tuned to the world, the natural world.

I agree. And you tend to notice more things. So maybe people notice the lights. Maybe people notice spirit activity because they're more tuned now, because they have a more discerning eye, a more discerning hearing, when being out looking for the stuff, you're looking and listening, trying to find evidence. And I think that's what's going on is people are just more aware.

and that's why more weird things happen to them. Yeah, you could be right. And it does seem like the more you get into it, the weirder, the weirder things get. And you're right, you do notice more weird things. I'm fascinated by it. And I know there's so much more we could talk about. I'll have to have you back for our part two, Jim, on the show. And I really appreciate you coming on.

I mean, I know, like, the Tombstone thing is kind of weird and some of the other things is kind of weird. but I appreciate sharing it because, you know, back when people would talk about these balls of light, I would just brush it off and say, well, I've never seen that before. And it's a very arrogant attitude to take, just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it's not going on. But I was that way. And then I saw the balls of light, and I'm like, well, maybe people aren't crazy. And it's funny because you kind of have to have those moments in life where weird things happen to you. And then all of a sudden, oh, yeah, that's right.

I was talking to Jim. Maybe Jim's not so crazy. I'm not saying you're crazy. I'm saying, you know, you have that. No, well, what scares me is I don't think you are. I told you that last night when we're talking on the phone. I don't think you're full of it. And I don't think you're crazy.

I think that this stuff is going on. And it's strange enough to say, I was driving down my road and this eight-foot-tall ape walked across the road. you know, because that's what a lot of times people say. I'm not saying they're apes, but you know what I mean? That's weird enough. But then when you start getting into lights, you start getting into all these other things, and it does go on. And I hate to break it to the audience.

It does go on. And it's bizarre. And I don't know what to make of some of the stuff. You know what I mean? It would make me feel better to say, it's just an ape we haven't caught up with. I would feel better saying that, but I know that's not the truth. You know what I mean? Yeah, no, I'll say this.

I don't know about you with your experiences, but I have yet to have the UFO experience when I'm out looking for Bigfoot. I know a lot of people claim that they always see UFOs when the Sasquatch is around. I've never experienced that. You know, I've seen the lights and I've seen them, you know, the Bigfo, but I've never seen anything to do with a UFO.

I don't know. You know, that part I haven't, that dot hasn't been connected for me yet. I just, and I think too, a lot of it when you talk about paranormal investigators, the ghost hunters, you talk about eophologists, you talk about bigfoot people, you know, everybody claims they're out trying to prove the truth. I don't think that's true. I think they're trying to prove they're right.

You're absolutely right. I think that's a big difference. What we do is when my buddy and I were researching together, if we were going to claim something happened, it had to stand up in the court of law. that was that was always our thought process we have to build take this in a court of law and people or it's just an experience so we always had that discerning eye and we always let the evidence lead us we never jump to conclusions you know sometimes the conclusions get really weird like okay this is now the second time we've seen balls of light you know that starts to happen but we don't immediately

go oh look a big foot can become a ball of light because we have no proof of that we haven't seen a big foot turn into a ball of light. That's why I say, I don't know what it is. If it's spirit energy or if it's just natural energy, what it could be. I don't know. Yeah, and I like the way you put that, because I tend to agree with you. I think people tend to, and I was that way at one time. You know, anything outside of it being a normal ape, I wouldn't hear people out.

And it's funny because I told you this last night, the guy that changed my opinion on that was Dr. Benernoggle. You know, here's a wildlife biologist, a scientist, and he's telling me. me, that's a bad, you can't pick and choose what you want to hear. You're going about this the wrong way. And he always told me, I know it makes you uncomfortable. I know you don't have answers for people, but you've got to allow people to come on and talk about what they've experienced because it doesn't matter how weird it is. And he used to always say, I guarantee there's someone else out there who experience the same thing this person did. Even though it sounds bizarre to you,

may not be as bizarre as you might think. Right. You know, anybody who's listening to this, if they want to reach out to Nora's place and Tombstone and talk to Stacey, they can do that, and she'll confirm it. She'll tell you about that night because she, like she said the other day to me, we still talk about it.

We still remember it very well because it was so unusual compared to what they've gone through there. And, you know, I mean, I know there are going to be about people out there that don't believe me. I may not believe some of the things you say. You may not believe the things I say. But what I've come to realize is you're speaking your truth and I'm speaking my truth. Because unless we're scam artists trying to fool everybody, which we'd be having money attached to this if we were. We're speaking the truth as we know it. Yeah, no, I believe it. I wanted to ask you, did Fred Beck or Morgan Earp say anything that surprised you? It was weird.

Morgan came through and she's like, who is this? And she's like, is Morgan? She goes, Morgan, Irp. He goes, yep. She goes, well, thanks for coming. Okay. And that's all he really said. And then Fred White came in and she's like, Fred, is that you?

And he's, yep. And all I said was, you know, Fred, thanks for, you know, your service to Tombstone as a sheriff. And I'm sorry, what happened to you. And he said, thank you. And that was all he said. And I did ask her, I said, does Wyatt ever come through? And she said, we've had him once.

but a lot of the spirits don't like him because of his personality. Isn't that how she said it, Jack? If those spirits don't like Wyatt, yeah. Yeah, they just don't like his personality, so they tend not want him around. Yeah, and I said Fred Beck, I meant Fred White. But you know, what's interesting is most people didn't get along with White Earp when he was alive. I mean, that's a pretty common knowledge that he didn't get along with a lot of people. He hung out with his brothers and Doc Holliday, and that was about it.

Well, it's funny because the bar right next to their place is Doc Holidays. Bar. That's what it's called now. I don't know what it was originally called, you know, back in that day. But when we were doing the, before she asked the Bigfoot question, me, I'm kind of a, I'm kind of a sarcastic person sometimes and I'm kind of, I'm going to make this statement and I'm going to prove everything that I'm hearing us wrong. So I asked her, I said, can I ask a question?

I said, actually I said, can I ask the question? question. She laughed. She goes, go ahead. And I said to the spirits here, is there a heaven? And a spirit came through and if he said, oh, yeah. And I said, okay, well, if there's a heaven, then why aren't you there? And he said, because of the veil. And I was like, what? You know, that makes no sense to me. But, you know, so I was actually able to ask that question. I thought that was kind of weird because I'm not a real, I'm not, I would not call myself a Christian. I would call myself a person a faith, but not a, you know, a Christian. I don't read the Bible. I don't go to church.

I don't do that stuff. So I thought that was very odd that he would say the veil, and I asked her about that. Afterwards, she goes, she told me, she goes, I don't know what he means. We've asked this question several times and we always get the same answer because of the veil. So she goes, I don't know if the veil is preventing

them from crossing over or allows them to go back and forth. So that was, I thought that was kind of interesting too. Yeah, it is. It's very interesting. Well, Jim, I appreciate coming on and sharing everything, man. Thank you so much for your time and I'll definitely have you back for a part too. Okay, well, thanks a bunch.

I really appreciate it. That was fun. Thanks, Jim. And that's it for tonight. Everyone, remember if you've had an encounter, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatchronicles.com. If you get a chance, check out Sasquotronicles.com. You can become a member and get additional shows.

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