Sasquatch Chronicles - SC EP:639 James "Bobo" Fay Part II

Episode Date: March 27, 2020

James Fay, or Bobo, was born and raised in Manhattan Beach, California, and has been interested in the Bigfoot mystery for as long as he can remember. As a teen, he became an avid surfer, a skill set he would eventually use to investigate reported Bigfoot sightings in remote areas of the country. While in college, Bobo spent his downtime in the woods attempting to locate a Bigfoot. Following college, he took logging jobs on Native American crews to absorb their knowledge of the Sasquatch legend. In addition, he increased his Bigfoot knowledge by taking jobs building roads and commercially fishing in Northern California. Bobo says that he saw his first Sasquatch while on an investigation with veteran Bigfoot researcher John Freitas in 2001. Since his initial sighting, Bobo claims to have glimpsed Bigfoots on a few other occasions, but it was this first visual sighting that moved him the most.

It looked like somebody was bent over and had their head in the window of the deer blind. It either heard me or smelt me, and he pulled his head out of the tent and stood straight up. That shocked me. They don't make people that big. The way it moved, almost as if it was gliding across the beach. I've never seen anything move like that in my life. They were screaming at each other in gibberish. It sounded like a language and they were chumtering away back and forwards, back and forwards, back and forwards, back and forwards.

I know what a bear looks like and there is no way on this planet of what I saw were bears. Madeline what are you reporting? Sure. Get somebody out here. What's going on now, sir? That son of a bitch is about 6'9. I don't know. Do you see him now, sir? Yes, I'm looking right here.

Hey everybody, this is Brent Thomas of the Paranormal Portal, and you are listening to Sasquatch Chronicles. Welcome to the show, everyone. Thanks for being here tonight. Got a great show planned for you tonight. We're going to be talking to Bobo from Finding Bigfoot. And Cliff and Bobo actually have a pretty good podcast. It's called Bigfoot and Beyond. So whatever podcast player you're listening to Sasquatch Chronicles on, give the guys a listen.

They do a good job. Again, it's called Bigfoot Beyond. It's a big orange icon with Cliff and Bobo. So we'll be talking to Bobo tonight about some other encounters, even some weird UFOs that he saw. Very, very fascinating stuff. If you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email.

My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. And if you get a chance to check out Sasquatch Chronicles.com, you can become a member and get additional shows. Let's jump into it tonight. I want to welcome back to the show. Bobo. Bobo, I really enjoyed our conversation first time around. Thank you so much for coming back to the show.

Yeah, so did I, Wes. Thank you. Yeah, and I know some of the listeners, some of my members on Sasquatch Chronicles, had some questions for you. So if you don't mind, maybe we could start out with those. That'd be great. Stephen B. says,

Hello, Wes, and James. Question, while doing the show, was there any time there was footage cut out that you wish would have been left in while you were during Finding Bigfoot, of course. Yeah, all the time. I used to be like, what the hell? Like, who's, like, you know,

that's final say on the edit? Because they were so worried about offending, they were so worried about getting like a letter from some grandma in like Missouri. Like, you said something kind of a little blue, you know, off color, which was, it would still be like nothing, you know, like 95% of people, or 99% people would just laugh,

but you get those few people that would complain. and so they'd cut out all kinds of funny stuff or like something that's like mildly could be potentially offensive they'd cut out like there's mostly just a lot of really funny stuff and then other times they'd cut out witnesses would say that they didn't realize it was really crucial in establishing bigfoot patterns or big foot behavior the people in the new york office had no clue about what was going on i don't know if people know this but discovery Animal Planet, they don't really make TV shows, they hire independent production companies with their own editing teams and film teams to produce it. And then they, every day they send them, they call it a hot sheet, they send them clips.

And they go through like tons of footage and just say, okay, cut this out, follow this. We want more on this line of the storyline. We want it to follow this angle. And so, yeah, there was a lot of stuff would be lost in that because our editors learned because what would happen is. Our story producer would come out with us. There would be two of them. And they would, you know, we broke up into two teams. There was always at least one story producer with, you know,

whoever it was. And so they'd go back and they'd edit the show because at first it was the people editing at the production, our production office would get it from the field editors or the, you know, field producers. So already there was a gap in connection between us and he was doing the first edit. And then the network. the producers of the network, they'd go back and forth with the editors,

what they want at our company. And those editors would talk to the field producers who would talk to us. There was like this full, this would be like a lot of stuff lost. So by the time the network producers were seeing, and we didn't know what they were seeing and what they were cut, what they were talking about, except for what messages we got back.

So there was a pretty big disconnect because we, I'd watch them go, what they cut out these super critical things that the person's said, you know, to establish, like to people that knew about Bigfoot's at all, or potentially did, it was just a crucial element, and that happened a lot. I would imagine, and I've experienced that a little bit with TV. Sometimes you get in there and you say something, and then when you watch it back, you're like, that's not exactly what I said.

That's not exactly what was going on. Even with my own account, I remember I told it on a TV show. And when I went back and watched it, I was like, well, that's not. exactly what happened. They cut out this, they cut out that. But I guess that's how all TV is. You know what I mean? They got to fit in a certain amount of time. And I would imagine it's frustrating sometimes going back to look at finding Bigfoot and go, gosh, that's not exactly what happened. I mean, there was a lot more to what happened there than what they're showing. I know Kenny H. He says, asked Bobo, what was the scariest encounter he had heard from the Native American tribes, one that served as a warning. that they not be messed with. I don't know if you have an example like that or not, Bobo. Well, the native witnesses, as far as don't mess with them, probably the one that stands up the most for me was,

and it was probably the most referred to witnessmen speaking of people that watch the show. The most commonly mentioned person was the kid Osh from our first episode in Alaska, Prince of Wales Island. He was a little boy that was out hunting by himself like 12 years. I think he was 10 or 12. Oh, this kid was such a badass. I love the guy.

He was an awesome kid. When he started fishing alone with salmon trawler off the Alaskan coast at nine years old, he had his own salmon troller and got commercial fish with the fleet. And the kid was nine, 10 years old out there, you know, for like multi-day trips, trolling and running the, running the, you know, solo by himself, you know, running all the hydraulics and baiting and. So, I mean, he was just a really brave young guy. And he was the kid that was out there deer hunting and the big Sasquatch popped up in front of him and started roaring and screaming out of him and tearing a stump apart.

And just he said he was getting total total mental projections like whatever, mine speak. We're going to kill you, you know, and this and that. And he had one on each side of him. So there was three surrounding him. And, you know, he's 12 years old, going out there deer hunting way out in the, in the, way out in the wilderness. And when we went to go film, we talked to me to going back,

and we got within about a mile or half mile of spot. And he just froze, and he was shaking, trembling. He couldn't go any further. He was so traumatized by it. Just the fear he conveyed, you could sense it like it was palpable fear in the air,

that he was just, there was no way this kid was acting. He had to his mom up there and his grandpa to convince him to go back to the site. He still wouldn't go all the way. We got pretty close, and you just couldn't do it. I remember that episode,

and that one always kind of stuck with me because if you watch that little boy's eyes, there's real fear in that kid's eyes. He's not joking. And if I remember right, he was holding his rifle and he just looked at the ground, didn't he,

when the three creatures were standing around him? Yes, that's right. I forgot that. That's what he ended up doing. Why do you think that they didn't harm him? I think they don't need, I think it's, they don't need to, and it's in their interest not to,

because, you know, a kid goes, disappearing or anyone, for that matter, you're going to get, you know, dogs and people and search teams and, you know, it's going to mess up the other, it's going to mess up all the animals you're trying to feed on, you know, having all these people march, especially in Alaska when it goes out, anything like that, looking for someone, they're all armed. So I think it's in their best interest just to not, not hurt people. Yeah, and you hear weird encounters like that. I mean, I know I've mentioned it on the last couple shows, but even like Claire, I don't know if you heard that episode or not, Bobo, the lady from England that was here, and she came to

California. And it's almost like the creatures were arguing whether to kill her or not. I mean, if you listen to her encounter, that's kind of what you get out of it. The male really wanted to harm her and the female kind of stopped. And she says they were in some weird argument in chattering in some weird language back and forth. And it looked like a real argument between the two. that is that is fascinating go ahead i have heard that and i did hear that story yeah because she she was a northern big sir and one of my best friends and main field partners was bark

katino and uh he was he's down there all the time and i mean he lives right up above there and he goes down there watching a lot and we were shocked at that story if i didn't hear if i didn't hear her like her voice and her inflections and tone and emotion coming through i wouldn't believe that story probably at all. But she was such a compelling witness. But yeah, that really stood out with me.

And I'm sure that happens. I mean, it's like in Sierra Sound, you know, you hear him arguing. It sounds like, you know, whatever, the father and mother or whatever, or the male and female, you know, they're doing the same thing she described. It was, it was probably one of the better encounters I've heard. Charles R. says, last time Bobo spoke of talks for a new series of Finding Bigfoot. So these two questions are related to this. Number one, if Bobo was in charge of production, how would he produce it to make it better?

That is a great question because everyone's a good critic, but when you have to come up with answers or solutions or alternatives, it gets a little more complicated. But, God, I'm trying to think now. I mean, if you would ask you that a few years ago, I would just feel it off for about an hour. But I guess it would be more focused on us getting footage. And like we had Tyler Bounds get on the show because I was so frustrated that we were, you know, because we weren't staying out in the field.

We had to stay in hotels so that we hired Tyler to stay out in the field and run audio gear at the, because we didn't just randomly go to a spot or just because there was a witness there. We went to places. We'd go to the latest hot spot. for the most part. Some of them were older stories, but we'd drive, you know,

maybe three hours away to get to a good squatching spot, you know, even more. We might even go across, halfway across the state and switch local hotels, maybe the whole production to go to the best squatching spots, which was cool. So I think I would have to focus more,

like, we were supposed to have a, like, a bunch of game cams out at every location we were at, and running 24-hour audio, and having him be dedicated to just using the parabolic when we were out in the field at night or maybe back at base camp have a multiple parabolic set up so we fought to get that on the show have something like that going and then they just switched him over to being another PA basically you know production assistant I would have focused for sure on getting more you know evidence like or audio recordings whatever

I don't think you're not going to your chances to get something on game camera pretty low but it doesn't hurt to put them out, you know? Yeah, I hear you. Do it less for, I guess, TV and more of... And I think that was a lot of people's complaints, you know, and they didn't really... Yeah, I would hear a lot of people say, why don't they stay in an area for two or three weeks? And I think when you're doing a TV show, that's not really plausible to do something like that. I think, you know, on paper, you know, we're talking about it sounds good.

But I think for a TV show... I'm talking about Finding Bigfoot. you guys aren't really controlling the game in that TV show. There are a lot of people pulling the strings, and you guys are the face of the show, so you get blamed for everything, which I think is unfair. You guys aren't making a lot of final decisions on a lot of things.

You know what I mean? It's really... Yeah, we had more say than most cast than most cast by far, because, I mean, I just would quit. I'd be like, I'm not doing it. And the other thing I'd change was, for sure, was the camera guys, we'd put the camera guys in bad spots because we were those stupid back, dude, I can't tell you how what a pain in the ass those backpacks were and how much I hated them. Because you didn't really want to go off trailer through the brush because they were always snagging on things. And they'd, you know, it's an arm, it's a metal bar sticking out holding the camera.

And they would get, you know, you're constantly hooking them on branches and the branches just break loose. See, I used to think they should have showed that a lot more, like the branches hitting us in the face and stuff. But they'd edit that out. But the other thing was that we'd be like on a ridgeline listening. We'd start hearing something. We're trying to identify it. And the camera guys would be scrambling to get in front of us to film our face reactions, hearing it. Or they were trying to get in front of us to film our reaction if we thought, you know, we'd get stuff on therm a lot.

You could take a minute or two to identify it maybe because it was pretty obscured by brush or, moving between trees and rocks, whatever it may be. And you'd be trying to get, you know, listen and focus. And then there's a guy trying to get between you and what you're trying to listen to. That was, you know, we'd be like, get out of the way and just hold still. So it would make it be like, hold still. And they'd be like in crunchy leaves or rocks kicking around. And you're trying to listen.

And the camera guy is trying to get a shot of your face. But we had these stupid backhacks on for face shots anyways. So it just seemed like focusing on us rather than focusing on what. what we were focusing on was a was the hassle and as far as moving locations like I couldn't believe when we had to move the first time like no we're staying where I was arguing they're like no we're not because a we had we'd have 20 hotel rooms booked we had flights we and the other thing especially was we had your filming permits would be for specific days and you had to add like you know like a biologist and a ranger with you a lot of times there'd be nowhere to stay because we'd have the

we'd be staying like the only hotel within an hour's drive. We'd have it all booked out by the time, because they'd book it so far out by the time we got there. They were booked out after us anyways, almost always. So we'd have nowhere to stay. We'd have to bring the rental vehicles back. So we were pretty committed to the schedule. Yeah, and I can understand it.

And I think that's something that most people don't think about, you know, when they think of doing a TV show. The second part of Charles' question, he says, what are your thoughts on environmental DNA, and would it not be a good idea that they took several samples of E-D-N-A at Bodies of Water, and each location they research, especially the ones where the town hall people said they saw Sasquatch. I don't know if you want to take a whack at that or not. Yeah, well, E-D-N-A is definitely the future.

It's awesome. and you would find Southwatra's DNA, you know, most bodies, like, yeah, you'd find out of DNA all the time. But the problem is there's no type specimen DNA sample to use. We've never sequenced a full genome yet, like all three billion strands. So Dr. Melderm was within contact. He had an airport somewhere going through, and he ran into and met the guy who basically is the father of E-DNA. he's the famous guy from New Zealand that went to Loch Ness

and did the sampling there and found that unidentified eel species which could account for the Loch Ness monster sightings and he got to talking with them Melzor has a specific pond up in the Rockies that is for sure there's footprint evidence there, like great track evidence there all the time

so that's the one they chose they have samples from that but to sequence a full genome of an unknown species is actually about $450,000. He's got a couple hundred grand. There's some woman keeps saying she's going to pay for the rest, but she hasn't come through for, you know, it's been like a year and a half.

That would be great because I think it's at this point, you know, it's so close to human that computer programs that, you know, go through the DNA profiles of all the known in the gene bank, all the data that's in that every genome that's been sequenced, which is, you know, all the known animals. when it gets into that, it gets between lower primate and, well,

an upper primate and human, and it usually gets tracks more to the human side. Before we'd go back and forth, sometimes people would say it looked more like a chimp or an orangutan, and some would say orangutan, but it would go back and forth, but it usually starts, it just says human, nowadays it'll just always go back to human pretty much,

because that's the default, because it just looks for these markers along the way, And until you map the whole thing, because we have so many common genes, gorillas and, or chimps and humans are like 98.3% the same DNA. And these things are more closer than that even. So when it gets, when that computer gets to the split between humans and chimpanzee, it just kind of gets lost in between the, it's looking for common denominator points. When it gets these ones that are different, it veers off naturally get into like, okay, now they got to go in and. and sequence all this the whole way through. And it's really expensive at this point.

But you look at DNA tests like ancestry and stuff like that. I mean, that would have cost you thousands of dollars and take months to do before. And now it's like, what, 50 bucks and you get the answers back real quick. So it should, the price could be coming, you know, come down. And once they do sequence one, it'll be great because then you can, you'll be able to test all kinds of samples against that. established one for comparison. And that'll open up the field a lot. Can I ask you, do you think that DNA and the sole environmental DNA is a waste of time? You know, a banana, surprisingly, I think,

shares like 60% of the same DNA as humans. And so sometimes it feels like you're chasing a ghost with this DNA stuff. Don't you think that one, and you can agree or disagree with me on this, But don't you think that one should be shot and brought in? Even though my personal opinion, I don't think the government will ever allow that to happen. But put the government whole conspiracy aside, wouldn't it make more sense that we have to shoot one? I mean, it seems like you can do all the DNA in the world. You can do all the environmental DNA. You can do on and on and on.

But I think in the same, I think we'll spend all this time and money doing that and we'll be in the same spot we are right now. What are your thoughts on that? The majority of scientists say there has to be a type specimen and another one to corroborate it. You know, so I don't think it's just a one-off. But I think the thing about EDNA, and I don't like the idea of people hunting them because we know people that are trying to, and we've talked to a lot of people that, and I've spoken to people that they are out there trying to bag one, and, you know, they just end up wounding them and pissing them off for the most you know none of those guys that are intentionally have to get a big foot have yet to

bring one in and so if you're just wounding these things I mean are you endangering people that live in that area like you know you're pissing this thing off or maybe it runs off wounded and dies and they you know I firmly believe they bury or

you know they they don't leave the corpses out like I think they're generally in small family groups for the most part and if one of them drops, they take the body and all the natives say the same thing. They put them in a cave and cover it with two large rocks too large for a human to move. Or they dig them and bury him.

They go, you know, bury them in the ground. But it seems like if there's caves around us, they're preferred, preferred is to close off the cave entrance. I think the benefit of E-DNA is just, if you can establish, hey, there is this, there's something there. This is not human. This is not, this is not, it's an unknown private. And we've got the sequence.

DNA, full genome, that would get a lot more, that would get universities. I mean, that's going to get you the funding to get professionals with the proper equipment. I'm talking like multi tens of millions, you know, dollars, you know, because they'll throw it. I mean, every research lab and every like research university with primatology or animal sciences, whatever, every, every grad program is going to have a big foot study. And there's going to be, you know, federally funded with all the proper gear and, you know, trained professionals out there gathering evidence. And I think when they start gathering that evidence, hopefully they wouldn't need a type specimen.

Like that would just be enough, the DNA and start getting some high quality video footage. Because it's totally possible. I don't try people try to say like they're paranormal, so you're never going to get them on camera. Well, they get caught on camera all the time. It's just most of the pictures suck. most of the pictures people take are with phones nowadays and phones suck are taking pictures or something far away or something back in the you know if it's dark background or they're almost always in the shadows so and i think even with phones you know when you go to zoom in like

even on my iPhone which is a great camera when you start you're right when you start zooming in everything becomes really pixelated and it is kind of a crappy camera to try and shoot something at a distance or uh because it doesn't quite come out and that's one argument. A lot of people say, well, everyone's got a camera in their pocket. Most people don't pull out their cameras when they encounter these things. That's the last thing on your mind. I even had a guy on who's a former police officer and he saw a what appeared to be a Sasquatch and something else in the photo. And he actually snapped a photo and he's like 300 yards away. And when you first look at it, I was like, ah, there's nothing there. And then when he sent me the

zoomed in pictures, I was like, oh, there is something there. did you did capture something. I mean, it was it was a blob squatch, but I mean, you know, it was, if you hear him tell what happened with that encounter, and then you look at the pictures, it really adds to what he's saying. But you're right, Bob, I think most

cameras are kind of crappy. I mean, I got an iPhone 10, one of the best cameras there is, and I guarantee if I took a picture of you, you know, 100 yards away, in the brush, you would look like a blob squash. You know what I mean? Oh, for sure. You know what I just talked to a

I can't say too much, but I talked to a well-known Bigfoot researcher this week that told me he just got the best photo of Bigfoot ever gotten. He's a trustworthy source, so I can't wait. I can't wait to see it when he was. I don't know how he's going to release it. I think he's going to put it into a documentary, but yeah, he was having rocks thrown out of him from over these coming to sailing in over these trees. And he ran up with the guy he was with and just started snapping pictures. He had a good camera and started snap pictures. he didn't see it at the time, but when they went back and looked, the thing was bent over.

It looked like it was carrying something. I can't remember what he said. He was carrying something. It looked like or picking something up, but it was bent over at the waist, but he got it from like the thighs up. And it's crystal clear, like with a high quality camera, you know. And I think it must have been dropping down to get down on its belly out of the way. He was just spraying pictures, like just snapping, covering this whole hillside back and forth, back and forth, snapping away. It only appeared in one photo, but if he's going to start getting enough clear pictures,

I think it's going to hope there's enough photographic evidence and a sequence genome that they don't necessarily need a body. They could just start getting more high quality. And if you start getting really good high quality footage, and it's from, you know, professional researchers from like a known research facility, then there's not so much like, Oh, it's just some Joe Blow Hunter guy got this on his cell phone camera. You know, like, it's digital. Who knows what happened, you know, what manipulations there were. And that's the other thing is that with film, it's very easy to, it's a lot easier

to rule out any kind of funny business. You know, you can look at the negative and see exactly what was in the photo. With digital, you know, as soon as you send it, you don't know, you don't know if someone manipulated it or not. So I think once we get all that, once we start getting good footage, it'll hopefully preclude the need for a test specimen because to me it would be immoral to go out and murder, to me it'd be murdered to kill one of these things. Yeah, I hear you.

I love your optimism. Don't ever lose it. But I disagree with you. I really think, and that's the beauty of having conversations like this is I could be wrong, you could be wrong. We both could be wrong. You know what I mean? But I really think that at the very minimum, someone needs to cut a head off and bring it in.

I don't think, I just don't see the DNA. Here's a problem with the Bigfoot world is if the photos are crappy, they're blob squashes and you get eaten alive. If they're too good, you're a hoaxer. And so I understand why people have photos and stuff that they didn't ever share. And a lot of people throw their hands in the air and they're like, oh, that's ridiculous. You should be sharing it. Look at people who share stuff.

The Bigfoot world, you think the TV world's bad. walk in the big foot world, walk a mile in the big foot world, it's the most brutal community there is, and they will eat you alive if you bring forth any sort of evidence, which I'll never understand till the day I die. But I like the idea that we could solve it with DNA or with videos. I mean, look at the Patterson Gimlin film. We're still arguing over that film. There's other films that have come out. I can't think of his name Freeman. What are your thoughts on that, Freeman footage? And for the audience, he took it, you can look up the Freeman footage on YouTube.

He took it in Washington State in the Blue Mountains out there. What are your thoughts on that video? I never met Paul, but I think he got a bad rap. And I know Belgium was impressed with this stuff. After the thing walked away, a lot of people don't see this part of the footage. Well, he was from the tracks. He was filming the tracks. And he's all, oh, they're fresh, you know, walking up the, it was it.

I think D-Duck Springs is, you know, it's a muddy spring spot. And he's fallen, these trackway up the hill, and that's when he sees it. So then he cast those prints and Melbourne thinks are some of the best tracks, the top 10 for tracks ever gotten cast. And so when you compare the footage he took as he's walking up of the footprints in the ground, which he then casted and you can examine those casts later. Then the subject in the film, I thought there was no way that was fake. then I was someone that was skeptical of it showed me a bunch of not a bunch but a few red flags like how skinny the arms are for one thing there's a couple things but I to me I always thought you're looking at one and like Paul like there's this whole thing he fakes trackways he fakes tracks no he didn't he did the same thing we've all done if you're really a researcher is you've looked into how can you fake tracks and like try to see how someone would fool you and what to look for like when you when you're if you make fake prints

you look for is there any signs and that's what that's what Paul was doing and he showed it to a reporter I think it was local ABC station was interviewing him and he said I've researched how to how someone could fool me and I don't think they can because this is what happens when you use fake tracks

and the story ran that Paul Freeman's faking tracks and that wasn't what was going on at all he didn't get a lot of evidence and people go how can the one guy get to all this evidence well he was patrolling that watershed that Mill Creek Watershed. And it was a couple of hundred thousand acres closed off to the public in prime squatch habitat. And he kept his camera ready and he was always carrying some either a still camera or a video camera.

Because I've seen two of his unreleased photos. They're not great, but they're still better than almost whatever anyone else has gotten. So I think I think Paul's for the most part kind of unsung. hero in the Bigfoot world. I tend to agree with you. I think that the footage he did get was real. I've had a lot of people describe what's in that video, what they saw. And a lot of times I'll ask him, have you seen the Freeman footage, and they have no clue what I'm talking about.

But it's more of that barrel shape. You know, most encounters are very muscular. They're big. They're strong. But I have had these other encounters where people say, no, it was built like a barrel. I understand why some of the natives will call him bearmen Because if you look at that But what do you think?

That's a bear man You know, like a bear So it is fascinating. I tend agree with you. Ted asks, What is the largest size of cryptid That he has taken a report on Or seen himself?

I just want to finish up the Freeman thing real quick. Oh yeah, go ahead, Bob. From what we think is those barrel chests Like the Freeman footage and those ones that are just like short, more apple shape than V shape, we generally think those are the females. Really? What makes you think they're females? Just people that have seen them a lot and been around them a lot,

like habituation sites for a better word, lack of a better word, habituation witnesses, they'll say that the females look like this, they walk different than the males a little bit, and the males got that very defined V shape, like a narrower waist up to really broad shoulders, whereas the females are wide-hipped and wide-shouldered. I got you. I got you. That's interesting.

I didn't know that. Yeah. And as far as verified cryptos, was it that person I spoke to personally or that I know of? Either or. Well, there's that famous case, I think it's in, is it John Green's books or Sanderson? I can't remember now, but the road building crew up in northern Canada, it was a survey in crew. I think there was six guys there watched this giant Sasquatch walk up a hill, and it was near a reservoir. So they had the surveying tools. So they're looking at it through, you know,

the binoculars and those surveying site. I don't even know what you call them. But anyways, they were watching where it walked compared to these trees. And I think it was like a half mile away from it. It was pretty far away. But they got some, these guys are professional engineers and stuff. So they noted where it was passing these points and the shortest it could have been was 12 foot and the tallest was 15 foot. So that's the biggest one I've heard of that, you know, of that. But there's been really good other witnesses and they're all in the, for the most part, in the very north is the ones you hear over 10 foot.

But you'll hear 12 foot. I've heard 12 foot more than once from northern Canada, which, you know, follows Bergman's rule or Bergman's law about the further north you go to the larger species get. You know, just so the mass of their body relative to the surface area exposed to the cold, the bigger you are, the warmer you are, you know? So that's why like a bears in Florida might be 150, 200 pounds. Then you get the Alaskan kodiaks and then polar bears even further up. The further north you go, the bigger things get.

So that would make sense for that. But I thought I saw the biggest one I'd ever see for sure was my first one, which was nine and a half, 10 foot range. But just last year, I don't know if I told this story in your, I don't think I told it. Yeah, just last year I was down below Boggy Creek. And I was on the property where we filmed Finding Bigfoot. It was the Louisiana episode. We were just below Boggy Creek in Louisiana.

It was where we filmed the Louisiana episode where we had the witness. A lot of people remember this guy. It's a lot of people's most memorable witness was Uncle Ben. And he saw that female Bigfoot. He had hogs in a metal trailer. And it was like a cage trailer. And the female Bigfoot was there. He said he saw a breast thing in the moonlight shaking.

shaking the whole trailer trying to get to the pigs inside of it. And we were at that property on that levee where we filmed walking up and down for a night investigation. And I had borrowed the Olympic project's Thermal Imager that Wally had bought. It was a brand new like $17,000 Fleer. I got it and I took it straight down to Louisiana with me. I was done it for a week because there was all kinds of crazy stuff. I bet he's got some good audio. He'd be a good witness for you probably sometime.

but they had some good audio out of there. And he also has some game cam clips. And it looks like he got the baby one. This toddler-sized one was going around this. Last spring, in early summer, there was those historic floods through the Midwest and South. And the rivers through that, the bayous down, you know, it's real flat. Those biose through there. There's a 30-foot elevation is like a mountain there.

So the water rose up so high. It flooded out the majority of the bottomlands. and all the animals were pushed up in a dryer high ground where they normally weren't going to be hanging out that long. And this family was experiencing, they said the bigfoots were bedding down just like 300, 400 yards away. And they were coming up, messing with the, they lived in a trailer. Like, they realized that one of the big male would watch them through the window when they were watching TV. And it appeared like it might have been watching TV and it would stand right behind the woman's recliner and look in the window. and so they put up a blanket and covered that whole window.

And then the next night, the Bigfoot came up and grabbed the air conditioner that was in the, in the window and smashed it and threw it through the window and it landed in the middle of their living room. And I was getting these reports like every day, something like that happening. And then my buddy went there and checked it out. There was big 12-inch handprints on the windows.

So I was like, oh, I got to get down there. So I brought that clear from the Olympic project. Shane Corsom mailed it down to me. and I went to Louisiana. We went out, the first thing we went out, we were filming in, have you used Fleer? Like, it'll blink, red, and say, REC for record. And you can see the data bar, like,

shows you how much space you have on whatever memory you have in the Fleer. Yeah. It fills up as you film. Well, it was saying recording, but the data bar wasn't moving. And I was like, what the heck? And then it filled up just a little bit. I mean, you know, I had filmed like eight hours. that night. And we went back and checked some clips. We'd watched, you know, the first five minutes

or 10 minutes. And we said, okay, well, there's stuff on there. We didn't make sure the whole thing was springing. The next night. We went back. We went to the levee. That was the first time I went to the levee, which was about eight miles away. And it was a different Sasquatch over there. We went up on the main power lines that area, run through the property. There's a big wide cut going through the forest. And it's still spying swamp land, but it's still heavily timbered. And he's looking north at the power cut line.

I'm looking south and all said, he starts freaking out going, no way, get this. Because he had a, he has a decent thermal. It's one of those new pulsars that you get for like three grand. They're the best thing to get if you're on a $3,000 pole stars better than like a $7,000

flare. So he had one of those. but this thing was pretty far away but when I spun around to get it and I had the I had the thermal on a on a monopod pole you know like a camera status

instead of a tripod it's just a single pole I had it on that and when I spun around we had a pile of all our stuff because it's been raining a lot and we had like a cooler in beach chairs that we were going to set up well they were set up we weren't sitting in them and when I spent around my monopod

went through one of the beach chairs and then was banging in all the stuff so it took me a minute to get in I was zoomed in I was on zoom I had the we had to change the lenses and I had the medium length lens on which was still pretty pulled in tight I had it zoomed in because I was looking at something far away so I turned around I was zoomed in tight and I'm looking he's going there it's giant it's giant and I got confused because I thought I was looking at cows because it was so big I see this giant it filled the whole screen this giant heat blip and I'm trying to figure out what I'm looking at because it was so big. It was between 310, 320 yards away. And we'd already been looking at this bowl,

because there's cattle running around there on the levee. We'd already looked at this bowl. It was about 1,500 pounds, I guess. And it was about, it was right next to our truck, which was 150 yards away because he had a range finder on his scope. And this thing was twice as big as of the bowl, twice as far away. I thought I was looking at a couple cows on a hillside stacked up on like looking like they're on top of each other. Then I just see the thing turn and walk. I see the arm swinging. I'm like,

I finally realize what I'm looking at. I'm looking at it giants, giant sat. I mean, just so freaking big. And it walks up and it pauses and turns and looks at me, then walks into the tree line. And I mean,

it walked next to a power, one of the power poles. Its head went right underneath this one branch. I mean, we, it walked in between these bushes. We had total points of references. And this thing was so big.

It probably would have been the best footage ever. I mean, it wasn't as good as PG in one sense. But since the PG films, you know, basically 6-4, 6, 6, something like that, you know, everyone can say, well, I'll say human, it's a human because it wasn't out of human range. But this thing was so massive. There would have been no debate what it was. And you can see, like, the different hotspots where, like, the fur was thicker or thinner, I should say. You know, you can see the look, you know, it would have been basically like a,

muscles, you know, where it was hotter in certain spots. And I was just, we were freaking out. We're just going, yeah, we got it. We got it. Oh, and also that night when we got out of the vehicle, I was just scanning around, right when we got out of the truck, because I always look around because this property, no one's been living on it for a couple of years. And it's several thousand acres.

And we got out right at the base of the levee along the tree line. And we weren't even there 40 seconds. I see this giant mount line just slinking along right on the edge of the tree line, like less than 50 feet from us. And I was like, no way. It was like the best mountain lion fish I've ever seen on thermal or something in the wild. And it just walked right in front of me slow. It glanced at us once or twice and just totally ignored us.

If I didn't have night vision or a thermal, I would have never known that a giant cougar had just walked that close to me. You know, it was because you didn't hear anything. I was excited about that. And we also got, I've recorded, we were all sitting on the levee. Some rabbits were feeding on the grass on the side of the levee. and filmed a bobcat come out and jump and grab one of the rabbits. And I was like, oh, my gosh, this is the best. Already was like the best night of footage I ever got.

And then 45 minutes later, this thing pops out. Never vocalized everything. We never heard it. He just saw it. I probably had it on film for like 20 seconds, probably the first 10 seconds. I was just getting the monopod out of the stuff that got tangled up in and then refining it, you know, and getting like climpses of it.

So I got it all the way in. And then I got probably eight to ten seconds of it head to toe walking back into the tree line. And we went up there the next day in the daylight. And we found a couple of huge scuff marks. No prints. The ground was rock hard. But we found these old impressions in the ground. There was no detail.

But they were, I mean, they were sunk in about 18, like literally 18 inches deep. They were totally dried out. there were 24 inches and about 12 inches across and six foot six and a half foot step length and that was right next to where it had walked so we we think it had walked through there when it was wet during the when it was raining and uh so we went back we were just so excited I called Cliff I called a Wally I called the few people saying it was like one in the morning or stuff I'm going I got it I got it we got it I was so excited we went back to this place we put it in and it was it didn't even record the first hour we were there then we went back and looked

from the nights before ran through all the clips and the other thing was that the when you click on a clip and say how many kilobytes it was whatever um they weren't matching up and then we realized it didn't the night before it didn't record a bunch of stuff we thought because we just checked we didn't check to see all eight hours recorded we just saw it was recording at certain points so we thought that okay it's recording well it turns out that unit of Fleer. I talked to one of the engineers. We know them from doing Final Bigs,

but they were one of our sponsors. We got to go to their labs. We met the people. And I was talking to one of the engineers, he said, that's a very common problem with those things. It says record, but the chip,

it's a malfunctioning the chip. It kind of, it doesn't pop all the way out. Like, the SD card out, you push it in and it clicks and you can push it and it pops out. It would be in there,

and you'd put it in. It would initially be connected. it would pop out, so the data bar wouldn't fill, but it would still say record. And usually if it's not, if it's not going on the data, it was not downloading on the chip, it's not going to say a record. But that was a malfunction with that unit. And like, Bart Coutino had one. He sent it back and bought a whole different system because it happened to him twice.

And I didn't even know about that. So it was just so, it was just the total Murphy's Law, Squatchers Law, whatever. What can go wrong, will go wrong. Yeah. And people try to say, oh, Bigfoot's had that effect on the camera. And it wasn't anything paranormal. It was just a malfunction of the flare. But that thing was, yeah.

So we went and did some size comparisons. And it was a solid 11 footer and probably at least five foot across the shoulders. It had to weigh at least 2,500 pounds. Yeah, it sounds like a big one. Sounds like a really big one. It's funny as you were talking about the flare. You know, I think I used that same one that you used. And one thing that I didn't know at the time was when you look through it, things appear to be a lot closer than what they are.

Right. And I filmed a coup. I was why. I didn't even know this cougar was there. And I was filming. Or I wasn't filming. I was just looking through it. And I remember this cougar walked out.

And when he walked out, he couldn't have been more than five feet away from me. And I fell back and I was like, oh, shit. And I like dropped everything because I didn't, I couldn't believe how close it was. and when I picked back up the flare and I looked back through it and I was trying to like see where he was at. He was probably like 30 feet away, 40 feet away. He could care less that I was there. He was just walking through. But through that flare, it looked like he was right there like five feet away from me.

And they're tricky. It's tricky using technology. So you weren't able to get anything of that one figure on the hill? No, we had people try to see if it was hidden on the chip. Because there was other clips that said that it said they were like an hour, whatever, hour and a half long. And you'd play it. It was like four minutes. So, yeah.

So we sent the chip to some tech people and they couldn't, they said, we can't find anything else on it. But they said that was very odd how when you click on a clip that said a certain length. They said that you don't see that, you know, like where the time codes are messed up like that. They were, it was on this, I think it might have been a defective chip. Yeah, because we tried like four different manufacturers, chips and that thing, because we thought maybe that was the problem, but it was, it just kept recurring. Well, they didn't record that, but, I mean, it didn't happen all the time. It probably recorded properly, like, 75% of the time, but it would just happen to be that one time.

Yeah, I got you. Ted wants to know, what is Bobo's opinion or knowledge regarding other types of creatures, i.e. Dogman, Mountain Giant, or the rake? Well, most of my dogman research is just listening to Dogman encounters. So I don't have any special set on those things. I think as far as those other, those things I think are paranormal, some type of, you know, parallel universe type thing, whatever you want to call it, spirit world, whatever.

I think that's the case with those things. I'm certain that there's some type of sea serpent. I was a commercial fisherman, and we were dragging off the coast of Oregon, and it was real foggy. But every once I'd go through these holes, there'd be like these patches. Like, you go like 100, 150, 200 yards, and you're just in bright sunlight, and you go back into this thick fog bank for another couple of miles. We had just gone through one of those sunspots, and we were dragging shrimp off Newport, Oregon. and my skipper was just crazy psycho Norwegian guy. He's one of the few people.

I mean, that's when I was like really, you know, in shape and strong. And I wasn't afraid of anybody. And this guy had me terrified, you know, and if he came on the back deck, you know, he'd just lose it. And I mean, he would assault people. Like, he'd get in fights all the time. And he was just gnarly. I mean, so he came on the back deck. I was like, oh, no, we're just going to get, we're just going to get reamed because he came all the way back there.

And he just looks at us and he just goes, did you see that? I thought like I missed. Like I missed. I should have seen something I missed and was screwed something. I'm like, what, what? No, no. He goes, did you see that? We're like, no.

We're like, what? You just had a little look at his face. He goes, I just saw a sea serpent off the port rail 50 feet from the boats swimming along parallel with us through the, you know, and he said they looked at each other. And he said it had the undulating humps, had a little, looked like a kind of a main sort of look He couldn't tell exactly what it was. But he said it was, you know, I was, you know, like, pick like a 55 barrel drum. And it locked eyes with them for like several seconds

and then just kept swimming back into the fog bank. And so I was like 50, 60 feet away and didn't even see it. Because, you know, I was looking, we were picking off the belt. Like, you know, you'd catch it in the hopper and then it would separate out the shrimp. They would go down this belt like Laverna and show you, like when they're pulling all the beers off and all that. Yeah. We'd pull up, you know, a stick or whatever. Anything that wasn't a shrimp, you'd pull out, you know, and throw it over, you know, you just flick it off.

You know, you're just going as fast as you can, you know. You're not, you're never, you're not, you don't have time to look around. You're concentrated on that. So I miss that, but I've talked to plenty of good witnesses about those. And then on the Olympic Peninsula, like the Quinnellt tribe, I was at Cweets about 20-something years ago. And I was asking about Bigfoot stuff, and they wouldn't really tell me about, They told me a few things like, yeah, yeah, this and that. Then one of the guys goes, well, we got a, I forget what the word you used for,

but basically like a river monster. He goes, we have those. He said, really? And he was telling me like, yeah, they eat the fish. They come up and they, when the salmon are stuck in the gill nets, they come through and just bite the salmon and the net hole and just bite holes in the net and just rip the salmon out and they can swim through the holes. And they'll tear a hole net up.

And I go, no way. And he goes, yeah, he took me behind the net. the fish processing plant there at Queets on the river and just, you know, some couple miles up for the ocean. And he shows me there's a pile of nets with these huge like three foot holes, you know, two to four foot holes all through the net. Those nets were like $1,500 a piece. And these guys were not ruining these nets to try to fool some, you know,

white guy coming through. I mean, I've just, and I've heard other I would just account. So I think, I think those are real. I've looked into those. I mean, I've talked as much as like, I've read, you know, I've seen the same shows and read the same books as everyone else and those don't have any special insight. But as far as cryptogicalia, like any of that kind of stuff,

I think is, if there is even a chupacabra, I think that that would just be another paranormal entity. But yeah, I find the dog man thing fascinating. And I still can't understand how dogman, I mean, how the title of werewolf just so instantly turned into dogman. Yeah, I agree with you. It's kind of weird that they're calling it dogman. I'll tell you the other thing I wanted to ask you,

when you were out on those boats and you were out doing commercial fishermen, did you ever see any UFOs or any weird things in the sky when you're out there? I've seen a lot of UFO action over the, in the early 90s. I saw a lot of UFO action over the ocean from shore. But as far as being on the boat, the only thing that I have experienced, we were way out of Cape Mendocino in northern California and all of a sudden the radio started crackling going, whoa, whoa, because we're on the sideband like the shortwave radio.

There was off the Oregon coast, guys started freaking out. Then all of a sudden, this blue ball light, you know, it just comes rocking. It was at least 50 miles from us to the east towards the land. And it came flying going north, northeast, south, southwest. And it lit up the whole horizon horizon blue. And it went across and we hear it go down to Mendocino and Sonoma and then off San Francisco out near the Farallon Islands where they about 25 miles off San Francisco.

There's the Farallon, which people are familiar with from the Great White documentaries. They film all the great whites out there. But anyways, the thing shot into the ocean there. and those guys said it, I don't know if it was a meteor or a crap, but those guys that were down off San Francisco, they said it was some type of, they thought it was some type of ship, not a meteorite or something.

And then it shot into the water and they can see the water still blue as it submerged. That's crazy. Yeah. So that might have been a, I guess it was a UFO, but whether it was something natural or extraterrestrial intelligence, I don't know. What are your thoughts on aliens?

Do you think it's being from another planet? Do you think it's a fallen angel? Or do you think it's all nonsense? I was always convinced. I mean, I was absolutely, you know, in my mind, certain that they're extraterrestrial in the sense that they were a life form, intelligent life form from another planet. But now I'm not so sure because I've heard, you know, people that way smart with me talk about how they might just originate from

earth, whether you want to call it paranormal or whatever. But it could be stuff generated just from the earth itself, like different spirits. It could be angels or stuff you've seen, you know, referred to an old religious text. It would be something like that. I really don't know, but I know there's something because I've seen the, I've never seen an alien, but I've seen lights.

And I've seen a couple of UFOs close enough that I can see it was, it was a craft and not just balls of light. there was actually like physical structure to it. Tell me, tell me about that. When did you see a UFO? You know, this is funny,

man. Like, this is so crazy. The first Bigfoot investigation I ever did where I was the first, I didn't read about it in the paper. I didn't, you know, hear it on the news.

A guy, this guy Larry from New Jersey was fishing up off of an oric where Redwood Creek comes in. And it's really like, it's big like a. river really they called a creek and redwood creek flows into the ocean right there it's right on it flows through the redwood national and state parks and he was fishing up for steelhead in october and it was a fogg real foggy day and there's the world's biggest elk herge right there and

right there the before we get into oric the creek comes in out of the hills and it hits the floodplain there and there's a levee on the south side of it that goes out to the ocean and so he was listening to of these elk crossing right there. They'd come down the left and he'd hear him sliding down into the water and then he'd hear him walking in the water, like surging through the water getting deeper. You know, you'd hear the legs sloshing and then they'd get chest deep and you'd just hear the water surging as they were walking. They'd get out close to halfway across, whatever.

Then he wouldn't hear anything. And then further downstream, he'd all of a sudden start hearing like that surging sound and legs coming, you know, as they walked into the water. You could discern them walking into the water. Then they get into the deep part where they floated, you know, with the current, they'd float down, but swimming across. And you'd hear where they got their footing again, then comes surging out of the water further down. Well, this thing, he heard something bigger, real big, sound like on two feet, from sliding down the embankment. And he heard it sound like two feet walking in the water and much bigger than an elf.

And the surging sound never stopped. Like, it never lost its footing. It kept walking. And, I mean, it's like six feet deep. There are seven feet deep in spots. this thing kept his footing all the way and then all of a sudden he sees merging out of the fog like 30 feet from him

this huge, you know, eight to nine foot, big buff, male, SaaS spots like the cartoon superhero style bulging muscles and it just looked at him and gave him a look kind of like a little look of contempt and just you're like, but not concerned with them at all.

Just like you're nothing to be human and just and then he watched it And it got out. It was looking where the elk went and it walked over to where the wet, where the rocks were all wet from the gravel was wet from the elk. And it went to that and started falling the elk back into the fog. And he flipped out and came ripping back.

And he was my buddy's roommate. And I was there when he came in, he was like flipping out. And I was like, no way. But at the time, I had a suspended license. So I couldn't drive. So I was waiting for this girl. I was trying to get off work. So she'd give me a ride up there to Ory to go look at these trucks.

He said, yeah, there's some tracks. They're not good, but you can see some impressions. And I was like, oh, man, I was like, I'm going to my first big foot investigation. I was like, stoked. So we're driving up there at night. And we're heading up. And the one girl in the back, there were two girls with me, the girl and I are in the front. And the girl in the back was like a total hippie chick.

And she was all stoned. And she was going, it's a lightship. It's a lightship. And I just thought she was some stoned hippie. And I was like, whatever, you know, not paying attention to her. I see this weird light. she's pointing at out over the ocean. It was flashing red and white.

I'm like, that's just a plane. And then my mind could not, but it wasn't. Like you could see it was clearly not a plane. But I couldn't, my mind couldn't wrap around what I was looking at, you know, because I'd never seen one before. And the driver goes, oh, my God. She goes, that is a UFO. And she pulls over and I get out and look, I'm like, no way it is a UFO.

I was like, no way, it's UFO. I'm like, Graham, I'm going to my first Bigfoot investigation. And I see my first UFO. And we went out to Patrick's Point State Parks, and people might know that place. It's basically from the Oregon border down, it's a beach all the way for this. I think it's the longest beach in North America, a continuous beach. And it comes down for miles, you know, I don't know, 20, 30 miles, whatever. And then there's this point sticks out, like, you know, over a half mile out in the ocean, this point sticks out.

There's a big rock off the point that sticks up like a head, a headland out the furthest point out. And there's a trailer that goes up to that rock and you got there and you're sitting out in the ocean basically. And so we drove there. I'm like, that's got a passage excuse. It had flown north. We drove. And there was another car pulled over like 100 yards in front of us.

We can see the taillights in front of us pulled over, looking at the same thing we were, we assumed. We got in the car and started driving up. And it was a California highway patrolman. He was leaning against his hood watching the same thing. We were. I pulled him like, hey man, you got to call this in, you know. You're a cop.

they'll believe you. And he just looks at us like, what? I go, dude, you got to call that UFO. We got to report this. You know, we got to call the news. You know, we got to get this reported. He goes, he just shook us in and goes, I'm not calling that in. And he just walked and got in his car and just drove away.

And then we took off. So we drove to Patrick's point. Went out to that rock out in the ocean. And we weren't the only people there. There were other groups of people sitting along the cliffs, a few groups of people sitting on the cliffs already just watching it. So it was already, I guess, a known thing. people watching these things up there.

So we went out on that rock and we were watching it for quite a while and there was five of them. And then eventually there was nine of them. And at first it looked like stars. We had to like a star just kind of blinking, weird, moving. And then all of a sudden you'd see them drop down. And it's like as they appear, they got a little bit bigger as they came down. They're like the size of a little bit bigger than a planet, like a Venus or Mars and they're real bright.

And they started, but they just flew these crazy. erratic patterns like just like a flyer mosquito or something just i was like if you came across the universe why would you fly these crazy erratic patterns like i don't i don't get it but we just watched it and there was this one and they were flashing like red white and blue blue and white green green red white whatever and they were just pulsing these colors it wasn't like clicking on and off a light it was like slower pulsing you know like kind of blending into each other there was this one green one that flew real gentle and like not sharp angles. It kind of floated more like a bubble and it was just more graceful looking.

I looked at the girls and I said, does that green one? Does that one seem like? And they both said the same time. I said a female and we're all like, no. And the girl with us said, you can, you can, you can communicate with them. You got to, and she had to sit like Indian style or, you know, like making the okay sign with your palms up on your knees. And she goes, you got a concert. you can talk to him. I said, well, let's just all say if you're a female spinning, you know,

you're just mentally projecting it. If you're a female spinning fast, tight circles. And I swear to God, so we started like being a little mantra, if you're a female spinning fast tight circles, if you're a female spinning. On the second one, it did about a five second fast, fast tight circle, and then went back to its normal thing. And I was tripping. And then one of the blue and green ones actually came down real low and flew over the 101 at Big Lagoon, which is north of that. And it was lighting up an area probably a couple hundred yards, maybe a quarter mile, was lit up underneath being light. And it flew over the freeway and hovered over the 101 freeway.

And there's a couple of cars going north and a couple of cars going south. And they both stopped. They wouldn't drive into the light. It had stayed on just outside of the light. And then it slowly flew east and went up higher again. then the beam of light turned off and it just flew up into the sky. We watched them for like four hours, five hours. Then about three in the morning or something like that,

five fighter jets came flying from the southeast. And they just came, and they were going fast. Like, fast than we, because there's a naval, naval air training out there. So there's a lot of planes flying out there. You know, we see the fighter jets fly over sometimes. These things are going way faster than normal. and they came up and you could tell these guys

that dealt with this before the pilots because they kind of they came up in a tight formation and they all kind of spread out and went out different UFOs and the UFOs just went

just straight up like just shot up like if those planes were flying at 600 miles an hour these things took off at 10,000 miles an hour or faster just

within two seconds they were literally you just saw them shoot up and go out of sight within two seconds they were gone. And those pilots, they didn't, like, they didn't fly around. They just instantly, they didn't even pursue them. They just peeled back. Just instantly, they all went right back and got back in formation and flew south again. Like, they weren't even there for, like, they just came and turned

around and left. Like, you could tell they had done it. You could just tell they had done it before. Yeah, that's crazy, trying to get them to scatter, basically. Yeah, and then over the next four years, I mean, I must have had 80, 90 nights. I used to keep track, but it was over 80, less than 100 nights over the next four years. I'd go up there with different groups of people and watch these, uh, these lights bouncing around, you know, just flying these crazy patterns. And they weren't always there, but they shut up a lot. Then the most famous UFO researcher guy, forget his name, he'd written a book, um, this, his classic UFO book. And one of the chapters was specifically from 89 to 93, which was our time period of all the UFO settings in off the Humboldt coastline.

And I was like, oh, my God, that's exactly when we were seeing him. And he had all kinds of reports to know from other people. Yeah, that's a trip, man. That's a trip you encounter. Why didn't you start looking into aliens like you deal with Bigfoot? You know what? I actually dropped out of school. I was so freaked out by it.

I finished that semester, but in the next semester, I'm like, these guys aren't even teaching me what's real, man. Like, they're telling me the UFOs aren't real. Bigwoods aren't real. Like, I'm just, I'm not going to learn anything here. I'm going to go, I'm going to go study that. So I dove into the UFO thing really hard, but that was pre-internet. So it was just basically looking up books and listening to Art Bell.

So, but I read, I read, you know, at least it does probably, well, I read everything Bigfoot at that point anyways, but I dove into the UFO thing is, you know, mostly Art Bell and, um, a few books and radio programs. but there wasn't there wasn't like the information like there is now you know yeah i get it i get what you mean yeah that's a fascinating account though man of being able to see the UFOs night after night i've seen what you've seen as you're describing it i saw it and i only saw it once but it was in the sky over portland and i was going to ask cliff if he had seen it uh because i know he lives in this general area a little bit farther east of me but um yeah it was just chilling in the sky it was blinking different colors. I mean, it was not really blinking different colors. I guess pulsating is a better word, because it's not like the lights went off. It would just pulsate a

different color. And it just stood there in the sky. It was there for about 45 minutes. And again, going back to our conversation with phones, my iPhone, you would think I'd be able to get it. But when I went to take a picture or video of it, it looked like a blob UFO. It was just different. It just looked like smudges. It didn't really look like anything. but to the naked eye or through binoculars, you could really see it. And so maybe that's why they don't have great UFO pictures too as well. Oh, yeah, for sure. There's definitely a lot better footage of UFOs and Bigfoots.

But we also saw another night. I was done on the Lost Coast, which is the longest stretch of undeveloped coastline on the lower 48. It's in northern California. And for like 100 miles, Highway 1 goes inland and goes to the 101, and there's just like 100 miles. There's very little, there's like a couple little pockets of habitation along there, but basically it's just nothing. And there's, I was down there surfing, and my buddy and I were camped out on the mountain, you know, over the overlooking the ocean. And we were just laying in our sleep bags looking up.

And we see this weird looking the UFO. And you could tell it was huge. Like, I mean, we're just guessing like a quarter mile long, 150, 200 yards wide. But it was so high, you couldn't really tell for sure. But we saw it. And it was, it was coming up. And it was shaped like a, like, you know what a shovelhead shark's head looks like? Yeah.

That kind of curved front, like it had a curved front to it. And then it came straight back to, you know, on each side it came straight back. And then it did a 90-degree return in the body of the, it was basically a head on a neck. And then it went into like a narrower shaft that went into the main body part. Then the front of it was squared off of the main body. And then the back end was like a rounded tail. and this jet black, blacker than the sky, beam would come out of it, and then the ship would just shoot instantly into that where the black light had been

and it flashed out the black light and it would shoot. So it flew along at a real herky, jerky thing. And some UFO researcher guy that was a pretty well-known guy, I told me that he goes, oh, you saw an antimatter beam. And what it does is it shoots out and evaporates all. the matter and it creates a vacuum and then the ship is pulled into the vacuum. I don't, I don't even know if that makes any sense with physicists, but that's what he told me. That's what that was. We watched that thing fly north from us and it went about eight miles further up.

There's Kings Peak, which is the highest peak in the coastal U.S. It's like 4,100 feet. It flew over Kingspeak and then dropped down. There's a big flat creek up there. And it dropped down behind Kingspeak down into the canyon of a big flat creek, which is another creek that's almost like a river. It's so big. It flew down into that drainage, and we never saw it again. We stayed up for hours just standing there and never saw it. And we heard the local radio station down there. Had like four or five people call in that night saying they saw that they've seen it also.

But that was a trip too. Yeah, that is. That definitely is. It goes on. I mean, it goes on. There's people seeing things in the sky and a lot of weird stuff in this world. You know, even I've heard from Bigfoot researchers when they're out, seeing balls of light. I know we've talked about that.

But just seeing really bizarre things. One question I want to ask you, do you think there's a correlation between Bigfoot and the UFOs? Or do you think maybe just aliens are interested in Bigfoot like we are? I think it's just, I think it's just happen since. I mean, if people have said, I was in the woods and I saw it. Bigfoot, right when I saw UFO, like, well, probably within 100 yards of you or 200 yards of you, there was probably raccoons and mice. It's good point. So are you going to say there's a connection to the deer or the mice or the owls or, you know, that's my personal opinion.

But there's people that have seen them come out of, people have seen them in tractor beams coming up and down. I mean, they may well have seen that. They could just be tripping or you never, those ones that say, I don't know. I don't know. I don't think so, but I don't know. Yeah. And I tend to agree with you. I mean, that was a good point about the dears and raccoons. You're probably right.

There was all sorts of animals around there at the time. But it is weird when you get those. Like I had Stan Gordon on, and he was mainly looking into UFOs at the time. He wasn't even looking into Bigfoot. And he kept getting all these Bigfoot reports. And you guys should have them on the show sometime. He's a great interview. Yeah, we actually were going to get Stan on there.

he's the reason that I even give it any consideration actually is because of Stan's books. And I know Stan, I've talked to him at length about it. And he's a compelling witness, man. I mean, when you listen to him, you're like, you can't deny what he's reporting. I mean, these are people's experiences. So I don't know what to make of it. But it's interesting. I don't think we'll ever know.

Not in our lifetime. I don't think. Yeah, hopefully one day we will. Hopefully I tend to agree with you. I don't think. You know, one of the last questions I want to ask you. you, Bobo, because I don't want to keep you. I know you're going to be working on your podcast pretty soon. If you could go back in time to the young Bobo, I'm not saying that you're not young,

but you know what I mean? The young bright-eyed Bobo that was just coming into the Bigfoot community and Bigfoot world, what is the advice you would give him? Well, I didn't really take advice too well back then, but I would be way more conscientious about keeping data. Like, Well, I did, I kept detailed notes for a long time. And like, everyone I talked to, I'd write, like, I had these spiral notebooks where I'd write in, like, reports and stuff. And I had my house broken into, actually, it was, this is a weird, you don't want to hear, this is the weirdest thing for a conspiracy theory or government knows about Bigfoot was, I'm sure I've gotten Bigfoot footage on a camcorder that I had set up monitoring this, these trash bags. It's a long story. but actually I should have told that story because that's one of the better ones.

Yeah, tell us that story and then tell us about the government cover up. So my buddy went out and bought a place right outside of Orleans. And Orleans is where you turn off the highway to go up to Bluff Creek down at the base of that. And he was across the river up Red Cap Creek. And Red Cap Creek for people that are like in the for the hardcore squashers would be familiar with that from Peter Burns. It's where he found the Bigfoot Ness. It was the first really good Bigfoot nest that we know that a researcher had found. It was a big, like eight foot, you know, like bird's nest on the ground.

He found some good prints up there, I guess. And Peter said it was the best piece of physical that he ever found. And for the local Indian tribe there, the Kurook, they say that's where Bigfoot lives. And that's where them and the Bigfoot people originated out of the headwaters of Red Cap Creek. So, I mean, it's in a bigfoot hot spot. And this guy was a city guy and he'd bought, he'd bought the place out there because it had a big shop on it. It was on a steep hillside of the property. And it had been abandoned for 11 years and he got it.

And as soon as he moved in, he started having weird stuff happening. And his girlfriend, she had a very poor vision. And she didn't like wearing her glasses because she just didn't like the way she looked in glasses. She didn't, she didn't wear them unless she had to. But this place was overgrown and old. trash on it. They were cleaning it up. He started telling me all this weird stuff happening. And his girlfriend was saying, yeah, the Indians keep throwing stuff at me all day, like twigs

and pebbles when I'm cleaning out the garden. There was some old travel trailers on the property that had been like permanently, like, put up on blocks and had like decks put off them, but they were just like old thrash travel trailers. There was a myriad of stuff going on that was splotry that I kept going on. But he kept telling me like, dude, we're hearing these crazy screen. He's all, dude, we have Bigfoot. And I'm like, yeah, right.

He's like, no, dude, we. We hear them every night since we've got there like, you know, like five, six nights a week. They've been through these crazy calls and screams and yells and like, dude, you're just hearing mountain lions and foxes and coyotes, owls. And then he kept, I know that there's bigfoot's and they didn't see them at that point, but there was just all this stuff that was happening. I was like, yeah, right. Then one day he showed up my house, he goes, come up here right now.

There's footprints. You got to see this. And I went up there. and you can see where these things had walked through the grass. He got to my place pretty early. It was summertime. So it was getting late at like five in the morning. He saw this thing at first light.

So you got to my place early. We waited for like Target and those places to open because I wanted to get a camcorder to go film the stuff he'd seen. I couldn't get one. I finally got, I had to wait until anyways. I finally got the camcorder jammed up there. It was just about noon or something like that when I got up to Orleans to his place.

and the wind had just started picking up. And what had it happened was, I saw the very tail end of it, but there was these perfect, it had walked through a burn powder, they'd been burning a bunch of brush, and left two perfect 14 and a half inch impression. He got photos of them.

This was interesting, too, because they had been invading these rat traps. And I was helping the guy do some work up there. I've been up there a few times already at this point, and he was going to work on my car in exchange for me helping him get this place tied it up. So I'd go up there if I had time, like once or twice a week to help them out, clearing stuff up and doing this and that.

And his girlfriend was, you know, and she goes, hey, it wasn't Indians. It was bears throwing the stuff at me. I finally, I saw them. There were bears. What do you mean they were bears? She goes, yeah, there were bears. They were totally covered. They're dark, like black bears, you know, dark hair head to toe.

But I said, what do you mean they're throwing sticks to you? She goes, and she made it underhand much because they throw it, they throw on off at me. I'm like, those aren't bears. Then I saw the trackway where it came up out of the brush, walked up, and you can see where it went to the rat traps. They were putting gummy bears or gumdrop gum drops on the, for rat bait. And you kept saying that the bait was getting stolen all the time with no rats or anything caught in it. The big foots were coming in and taking the candy. And the footprints went right up. It was just impressions in the grass where they were bent down, every four feet, like a 13, 14, 15 inch depression in the grass.

And I was like, oh, my God, there are big foots up here. The thing had walked up and we were guessing that it must have, when it was getting the candy out of the trap, maybe the trap went off on its hand because the trap was upside down. The thing had straddled over it and just took a huge crap on top of the rat trap. And I gathered the poop up, you know, put it in a big, zip lock baggy put it in a bag I bag that took it down a fishing game I got a couple of scat samples from up there that over the next couple months which I brought to the I don't know if I told you this

last time but I brought him to a fishing game they just like I'm like hey you got to test this is big foot poo I guarantee it's big foot poop you got to test it I didn't know back then like I thought they could get DNA or something out of that I didn't realize they couldn't but anyways my buddy got a job there a couple years later I said can you find out because I thought oh that they're totally covering up They know it's a big foot. They're trying to cover it up. So I told my buddy, I said, hey, find out about those big foot samples I dropped off there. He looks at me just laughs.

He goes, he goes, he goes, what? I dropped them off big foot samples, a poo, you know, some scat samples. Like, what, what was the cover up there? Like, he just laughs and goes, that was you? And I said, yeah. And he goes, they told him out some big crazy guy comes in there with his own crap in a bag. Tell him it, it's bigfoot poo. They just threw it in the garbage.

So. Oh, man. I was muted out. I was busting up as you were telling that story. Can you imagine being the, I'm not making it funny, but can you imagine being the fishing game and you got Bobo, which is a giant walking in? I mean, really, what are you going to say to this guy? He's like 6'5 or whatever. You're like the monster of a man, so you know they're not going to run their mouths when you're in there, but you come in there with a bag of shit and you're like, hey, this needs to be tested. This is big question.

I love it. I love it. It's hilarious. I was just like, God. So anyways, so a bunch of crazy stuff happened there. Like I started spending it up there and I heard them. And they were coming in every day and they started taking the trash at night. He was hanging the trash up off a flag holder. You know, like on a porch, it goes up like a whatever, like a 60 degree angle and you stick your flag in it. A little flagpole. Like one of those holders on the porch post on the, on the one of the abandoned travel trailers.

And I think those swatches might have been sleeping in the travel trouble because the floor was sagged in and it smelled like hell. And there was these weird hairs. And I didn't know it really what bigfoot. Now I know what bigfoot hairs, what to really look for. I'm sure these were bigfoot hairs. I dropped those off with the scat samples too. Like an idiot I didn't keep my just put as much as I could. And they ended up pulling the carpet out anyways and throwing it away.

So I didn't get any more. but around sunset, the trash would get taken and they were hauling it down. There was this huge bush. I don't know the name of it. There was a big bush, and they'd hauled out. So it was like a mushroom cap with a hollow inside mostly. It was nuts. And the big fish were taking the trash down in there and separating it.

They'd dump it out. It's like they're kind of like autistic in some ways. It looks like an autistic person did it or something. Like they divide things by like color, texture, shape. Like there's all these multiple piles. You can see like the thought process of how they sort these things out. It was just strange. Like things that had food residue on it.

For some reason, I had a bunch of phone cord lines. I guess the guy was in electronics. He had a bunch. And so all the old wires were stacked by color and size and thickness. It was just just really strange. And they started coming and taking the trash bag earlier in the day when it was still light. I took my camera and set it up and put it in the trailer facing out.

I covered it up with some stuff and just facing out the window filming, you know, where the bag of trash was hanging and it got dark. We went down there. And just before dark we went down there and the bag of trash was gone, we could hear the thing rustling around down in the bush. And then it took off. We didn't see it, but it took off down the trail. We're like, no way.

And I was like, I got the footage. It took the bag. And the camera's running, you know, it's another, it's, it's, it's, this is before digital was tape. So, like, there's no, if it's, if it's rolling, it got it. And I was so excited. And I, I called Belgium. I called Ray Crow. Um, I called a few people going, dude, I got, I got footage.

I got footage. And I was going off and I called, I think I called Tom Powell. Um, I called some big foot researchers and just said, I got footage. I got footage. No way. And I got the tape, but I took it home. And I was just. trying to get back, get more tapes and batteries to get to get back out there.

And so I dropped it off of my house in town down outside Arcata on the coast. And then I jammed straight back up there. I didn't go back for a couple of days. And I went back a couple days later and my house was broken into and my stereo and TV, all my CD collection. This was in 2002. All my, everything of value, like there was even some money sitting there that wasn't taken. but the only thing taken was all my notebooks with all my Bigfoot notes.

I did have some hair samples. I don't know what they were, but I had some hair samples that I thought might be. They probably weren't. All my photos of like trackways and that sort of stuff were all that stuff was gone. And my big foot casts were gone. Like everything my all my big and even my books like just normal book like Bigfoot books like John Green and that stuff were all gone. They didn't take anything but all my Bigfoot stuff.

And then there was a couple guys up there like I talked to, I can't, I should, I think it was Powell or Franzoni, Joe Bilar or Ray Crow. One of those other guys had their house broken into the same, or within 24 hours, their house was broken into and they had a bunch of Bigfoot materials stolen.

And it was one of the people I had called. I heard this later on. I don't know this is accurate or not, but a guy I know that worked at the time. timber company. It was pretty hot. He was a forester, like management. And he told me a rumor he heard there was that in the 90s was all that earth first

and environmental activism and like eco, they called it whatever eco-terrorism, like sabotaging equipment and trees sitting and all that kind of stuff. Well, suppose these guys hired some retired FBI guys or say whatever, some type of, you know, retired law enforcement guys that were putting. wire taps on the environmental activists and, you know, trying to feed information to the feds, that the feds couldn't, like, legally get wiretaps to these people or whatever. These guys were doing it. They were just trying to protect the timber industry interests.

And what he told me was that they, they, that whole environmental movement, the militant part died out. Like the Earth First Amendment basically died out and the Earth Liberation Front and all that was kind of over at that point. And they were trying to justify their jobs by saying, hey, you know, because they know Bigfoot's real, a lot of them. He said, you know, he said they just find their jobs saying, hey, we got to monitor these Bigfoot guys because if they prove these Bigfoot's real, it's going to screw you guys. He's not the spotted owls that way until this hits. So supposedly they had a couple guys surveilling the Bigfoot community for a few years. And that was possibly who broke into my house and stole my Bigfoot step. And I don't know.

I've never been able to verify that at all. But that was just what this one guy told me. And I heard another couple of rumors of people that heard second, third hand, the same thing. Yeah, that's crazy, man. I think that there is a government cover-up that goes on with these creatures. And it wouldn't shock me one bit if what you're saying. Actually, I believe it happened. And it wouldn't shock me one bit if the government was behind it.

I think that there is an effort to keep this quiet. whatever reason. And I got my own theories on it. But I think there is an effort going on to, I don't think they care so much about encounters. They don't really care so much about a lot of things. But the minute you start showing up with real proof, I think you're probably going to get a visit. Yeah. See, I've heard so many stories of that, but people I know personally that have had, like maybe some kind of government officials show up their place has been very, very few. And When I thought I've had maybe potential footage before, like I called it saying, hey, I think I got something maybe or I know something I got something like nothing's ever happened, you know, that nothing like that ever break-ins or visit from authorities or anything like that. I don't know how much of an accurate.

Then you hear these stories like, you know, like, oh, the SIGFIT got hit on the freeway and it was laying there dead on the side of the road. And like an hour later, the black helicopter came and all the black SUVs and the men in black were there. and this helicopter came in and took it away. But it's like, and I've heard that story like multiple times around the U.S. Never on the West Coast, always like Midwest and in the south a little bit, but mostly upper Midwest. But like there's no way there's these teams sitting around of government agents with helicopters and black SUVs waiting for a big foot report to come in and then rushing

into the scene, you know. I'm sure there's some people in power that know they're real. But I don't know how much of like organized. from the top down government conspiracy there is to cover it up. You know what I mean? Yeah, I hear you. I hear you. And it's stuff that's hard to verify.

I mean, I've had those encounters on the show. I can think of one. And it did actually happen, I think, in the Midwest, where someone had hit one. It was a big rig that hit one. And the lady in town was the vet. She actually worked for the government. She would handle all of the, she was like a wildlife biologist and a veterinarian. And so she would handle a lot of putting.

putting down horses, putting down different animals that they captured. And she was actually called to the scene and went into great detail about this creature that was hit. It wasn't dead. It was moaning. And they were telling her to give it, what's it called, re-knock an animal out for pain or whatever. But to knock it out. She was saying, I don't know how much it weighs. If I give it too much, it's going to die.

If I don't give it enough, it's going to get up. and this thing's big enough. And she described it being very manlike. She said it was a big hairy man on the side of the road, crossed between like a chimpanzee and a man. And it was huge. Actually, the driver of the tow truck was injured after he hit this thing. And can you imagine driving a big rig and getting injured hitting anything, really?

I mean, those things are like tanks. Well, I never heard. That must have been a member of only show because I never heard that one. No, it was a while back, a couple hundred episodes ago. I actually had the son on. The mom's passed away. And when the mom came home, the father and mother were talking about it. And the next day, they actually, she had collected samples, I think, of hair and blood and different things when she was tranquilizing the animal. And the next day, I guess someone showed up and said they wanted all of the evidence of it and that it never happened. But you're right, those stories are hard to verify. But when you hear something time and time again of some weird cover-up going on, it always seems to be when people have real evidence or when they can prove something. I think if you just have an encounter, I really don't think the government cares if you talk about it. They're more worried about what you can prove.

Right. And who knows why, to be honest with you. I mean, again, I got my own theories, but they're just theories on why they're covering it up. And the whole subject is bizarre, man. And it's so frustrating at times. You've been doing it longer than I have. But at times it feels like you're chasing a ghost. It feels like you're getting nowhere in the subject.

And it seems like the longer you're in this, the more questions you have than you really do have answers. Oh, for sure. You know. Yeah. When you do the government conspiracy stuff, it's like, I'm sure that there is on some levels. But it was like Lyle Laverty, who took those great black, black, white, photos of the PG trackway the next day. It was awesome black and white photos you see of the PG trackway tracks.

He ended up rising to the number two man of the Department of Interior. You know, and so they run over 50% of all U.S. land masses under the control of the, you know, Department of Interior like Forest Service, BLM. And so he was, you know, a big time shot caller. And he, you know, he'd had two sightings. He always denied it, but we know like his best friend, Mel Hester, when he'd, He started off as a, as a, he started his career as a, when he was like 22 here in Six Rivers National Forest where the PG film was, Bluff Creek. And as he was working out here in six rivers, he had two settings in the 70s of Bigfoot.

So he told Mel about, but he always just publicly denied it. So I know that the number two got, Department of Interior had at least, you know, had two settings and knew they were real. So, I mean, I know, I know people at the upper levels. So then Mitch McConnell and Rand Pollop both had settings, you know, two senators in Kentucky. So I know that there's some powers that be that have, you know, have knowledge of these things. And I'm sure they don't want, I can see why they wouldn't want them discovered for sure. I mean, there's, there's not, there's no benefit. It's, as far as they're concerned, it's all negatives.

There's no benefits to having these things proved to be real. I mean, you imagine the lawsuits about you were letting us hike on, I mean, how many, lawsuits would they be for missing people. Every person that's disappeared in a national park or a national forest or BLM land. If the government knew these things were real and possibly abducting people and, you know, now you're, you're admitting they're real and you didn't warn us this whole time. I mean, everyone would be as scared to go outside. You know, I'm sure people were getting shocked because people would see, you know,

maybe someone in gilly seat or something and, oh, it's a big foot and shoot at it or, or whatever, whatever it meant. I mean, you know, like everyone says, the timber industry would be, you know, just thrown for a loop. It would cost some, it would definitely cost some commotion. Yeah, no doubt.

I don't think it would go down like that, though. I think they would do a slow release, kind of like what they're doing with UFOs. Right. I remember, like, in the 80s, Bobo, where if you saw a UFO, you were crazy. You were nuts. Right.

And now, not so much. Everyone's kind of seen one. Everyone knows someone who's seen one. And he starts to see where the government's like, yeah, there's weird things flying around. We don't know what they are. And there's really nothing we can do about it. Here's some footage. And so they're slowly starting to bring that stuff out.

And I kind of think that's what they'll do with Sasquatch to where we didn't know anything. We're just now finding out about this, you know. And then that way, you can't sue them because they didn't know, even though they did know. It's fascinating. I really hope one day it comes out. And I really hope one day we find out, what? these things really are. But in the meantime, we can sit and talk about it and disagree on things and agree on things. And, you know, I've learned more from people I've disagreed with in the

Bigfoot world than people that have agreed with me. There's been more times I've walked away and thought, you know what, that guy might be right on what he's saying. I mean, who the hell knows? You know, I don't know. And it seems reasonable what he's saying, even though I think to your average person it sounds crazy but being in this so long maybe you get jaded to thinking yeah you know that guy could be right you know what i mean like who knows that doesn't sound as crazy as i would have said you know five years ago or six years ago i would have called this guy a loon now i'm not i'm not i'm so sure that that guy's a loon you know what i mean yeah i've never thought anyone was crazy until i had demonstrable proof that they're crazy from you know interaction like enough interaction

and see like, okay, this guy's nuts or this woman's nuts. But, yeah, for the most part, I mean, since the beginning, I've always thought, I don't know. Like, you know, I just, I just try to, I mean, if they are interdimensional, if they are, this or that, if they are connected to UFOs, well, all right. But I know at least part of the time they're in this three-dimensional same space we are, times, you know, time and place we are. And if they eat, they leave tracks, they have hair, they bed, they have young. so I know for sure at least part of the time they are physical living breathing animals you know they can be shot and have blood come out so whether they can do some kind of vibration or whatever like if they can go in and out the spirit world or peril of universe I mean

who knows but I know I just concentrate on the stuff where they where they're in the same spectrum of reality that we're in that's what I focus on yeah I hear you I hear you. And I think I do too for the most part, but that doesn't mean I won't sit and listen to. I've heard some bizarre things, man, some really bizarre things. And people, it's not just what John Bendernoggle used always tell me, if one person tells you something and no one else is saying that, you can blow it off. But if you're hearing something and it makes no sense and it tears apart your worldview and you hear it over and over again, maybe look into that. Maybe there's some merit to that. Maybe there's not. But at least look into it. and John for being a scientist was pretty open-minded, at least dealing with me, was really open-minded on a lot of things. And so he helped me a lot with when I talk to people now, you know, there's a lot of people I disagree with and there's a lot of, but it's not a debate. You know, if you don't like the answer, don't ask the question. He used to always say that to me. And so I learned so much from them.

And, you know, I would hope that people that disagree, you know, could. at least have a discussion, you know, I'm sure there's a lot you and I disagree on, you know, but it doesn't mean we can't have a discussion. And I wish more people did that in the Bigfoot world. I really think that would get us farther than DNA and great video. I think people just talking to each other on a respectful level. And, you know, I don't know why I went off on that tangent, but I agree. We're on the exact same page with that. I mean, there's a few things where I'm out of it. Like, no, I know I'm right about this. you're not at all, when people say,

they might even know what firearms are. They might even know what a gun is. I'm like, they know exactly what, like that's like one of the few things I'll say like with definitive. Like I'll argue with anyone about like, no, you're wrong.

If you think they don't even know what it like, they know what guns are. They have language. And I'm certain also that they carry off their dead, you know, and, you know, bury them or put them in case and cover it up.

I don't think they leave their dead laying around. But the rest of this stuff, pretty much the rest of it is like, I'm open to, I'm open to whatever. Like, wherever the evidence leads, like, you got to follow it. Yeah, I agree with you on that. I agree with you 100% on that. Well, Bobo, I really appreciate you coming on, man. And, yeah, brother, thank you again for coming on. And for people out there, check out Bigfoot and Beyond on your podcast player.

Every Saturday night, the guys put out a new episode. And do you know what's coming up this Saturday night, Bobo by chance? It's okay if you don't. I can't remember if it's Strewford Part 2 or if it's, we might have Paul. It might be Paul Graves. We've kind of got a little bit ahead of the curve right now. We've been trying to pre-record in case stuff comes up. We can't do one that week.

We try to get two weeks ahead. So we got Paul Graves coming up, though. Paul Graves is awesome, ma'am. He's, for a Bigfoot researcher, I like him. I won't hold the Bigfoot researcher thing against Paul Graves. I actually really like Paul. And, you know, for a Bigfoot researcher, quote-unquote researcher, he does a good job. I mean, if I had a trackway or if I had something going on, I would probably call Paul

because Paul will document things in a very scientific way. And he's pretty level-headed, really. I mean, he doesn't go too far off on one side or the other. I know he doesn't think that they'll harm you, and him and I disagree on that. But Paul's actually a really good interview. He's a smart guy, too. Oh, yeah, I've been really good friends with Paul for like over 15 years.

I've been in the field with him. I've had some experiences with him. I mean, he's a, yeah, if you're east of the Cascades, I'd call Paul if I was west of the Cascades. I'd call Olympic Project Derek and Shane. Yeah, and Paul's a hell of a musician, too. That's the other thing, too. Dude, he's got my second favorite Bigfoot song

all time is Jim Henry. And then he's got Bigfoot and Butterfly. He's got a couple of my top ten songs, Bigfoot and Butterflies. But Jim Henry's like, that's just such a great. Musically and the lyrics is just awesome. Yeah, I really like Paul. You know, out of, again, I give Bigfoot researchers a really hard time. But, you know, and that's the thing about you, Bobo, that I really liked, you know,

for a guy that was on TV for eight years and, you know, strike one, you're a bigfoot researcher, strike two. But I actually really, you're probably one of the most down-to-earth, quote-unquote, because you know what I'm saying. I'm not trying to be a hard ass, but most people in the Big Fort world really are assholes. And it's hard to get around that. Most people are very difficult to deal with. And they know everything and they got an answer for everything. Not everyone.

I always generalize when I say that. But that's one thing I really liked about you is how down-to-earth you are. And I met Cliff one time. And Cliff's very down-to-earth, very easygoing. And so I hope people check out Bigfoot and Beyond. Again, every Saturday night on your podcast player. Bobo, thanks again for coming on, ma'am. Yeah, thanks for having it.

Shoot. Can you know, can I say one more thing? Yeah, go ahead. But as far as the conspiracy, like the government conspiracy thing about Bigfoot, a really good friend of mine, but actually had a setting with one of my settings at Left Creek was a special forces soldier. you know he was in black if he saw the movie black hawk down

he was one of the guys depicted in that and he's good friends with general David Petraeus they served together when Petraeus was like a major or something like that and they stayed friends even after he left the service he kept in contact I mean I know he knows the guy because and he was the head of the special forces

and he's I was already actually talked to him on the phone a couple times he'd call Patraeus would call him we were hanging out whatever and he told me I was never talked to Patrice about this but this guy's two-time Bigfoot I went and I was with him one time

and he said yeah he goes that Lamb between the lakes with the 200 green braes out there looking for the Bigfoot with live ammo he said that was BS Petraeus told him that they were doing a exercise there with like 50 guys and it had nothing to do with Dogman or Bigfoot

so that's just you hear a lot of that because that story's repeated a lot because of fact So I kind of some of the conspiracy stuff, I'm a little leery of. No, I think you have to be, you know, a little leery of who's telling you what and what they're telling you. And even if someone is legitimate, are they giving you disinformation or they, you know what I mean? So there is, you kind of have to keep a level head sometimes with conspiracies. That's for sure.

Yeah. Well, cool. West, thanks for having me, man. I appreciate you. And thanks for supporting our podcast. Yeah, of course. Anytime, Bobo. Anytime.

Thank you again for coming on. Okay, Wes. Thanks a lot, brother. And have a good night. And there he goes. Bobo from Bigfoot and Beyond podcast, definitely check him out. And that's it for tonight. Everyone, remember, if you've had an encounter, shoot me an email.

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