Sasquatch Chronicles - SC EP:657 The Bridgewater Triangle

Episode Date: May 24, 2020

"The Bridgewater Triangle" hosts an unusually high volume of reports involving strange happenings, baffling mysteries and sinister deeds. From ghostly hauntings and cryptid animal sightings, to UFO encounters and evidence of satanic ritual sacrifice, this 200-square mile region in Southeastern Massachusetts serves as one of the world's most diverse and well-known hotspots for paranormal activity. Chris Balzano who hosts the podcast Tripping On Legends will be my guest. Chris Balzano is a teacher and has been investigating the unknown for many years. He has authored many books that are available on Amazon. He was in the movie The Bridgewater Triangle which is available on Amazon.

It looked like somebody was bent over and had their head in the window of the deer blind. It either heard me or smelt me, and he pulled his head out of the tent and stood straight up. That shocked me. They don't make people that big. The way it moved, almost as if it was gliding across the beach. I've never seen anything moved like that in my life. What's... What's...

They were screaming at each other in gibberish. It sounded like a language, and they were chuntering away back and forwards, back and forwards, back and forwards. I know what a bear looks like and there is no way on this planet, but what I saw were bears. What's going on, now, sir? That's son of a bitch is about six foot nine, I don't know. Do you see him now? Yes, I'm looking right here. This is Mike Marawa, and you're listening to Sasquod's Crompies.

In 1675, tensions would boil over in New England, between the local Wampa Noag tribe and the New England colonists. Most of the argument was over land. Native Americans did not understand the concept that the colonists held of land ownership, and that once owned, no one else had access to it. The tribal leader, Mediom of the Wampanoag people, wanted to drive the New England colonists back into the sea. The colonists called Metacom King Philip in a way to mock him. Thousands would die in this war. Most had died were men, women, children, innocent people who had no part of the war.

Mediom, or known to the English as King Philip, was trawhip. was tracked down, shot, quartered, and beheaded. The colonist put King Philip's head on a spike as a warning to the rest of the Native Americans. His head remained on that spike for the next 20 years. His wife and children were also captured and sold into slavery. This war would be called King Phillips War. It is said that the Native Americans curse this land. because of the way they were treated.

This area would later be called the Bridgewater Triangle. Welcome to the show, everyone. Thanks for being here tonight. Got a great show planned for you tonight. We're going to be talking about the Bridgewater Triangle. And the Bridgewater Triangle refers to an area. It's about 200 square miles within southeastern Massachusetts. I was watching this documentary on Amazon Prime about the Bridgewater Triangle.

And there's so many bizarre things that go on in that Bridgewater. Triangle area. I mean, ghosts, UFOs, weird cryptids, thunderbirds, Sasquatch, I mean, you name it, it goes on in this area. And I'm convinced the area is cursed. It has a very tragic history. And to this day, people are seeing all kinds of odd things in that area. And my guest tonight will be Chris Balzano.

He was actually in the documentary. And so I contacted Chris, asked him if he'd come on the show, and he agreed to. and so I'm kind of excited to do a show like this. Chris hosts a podcast called Tripping on Legends. If you get a chance, check it out, whatever podcast player you're listening to. It's called Tripping on Legends with Chris Balzano. And Chris is actually a teacher. He's been investigating the unknown for many years.

He's authored many books. I'll include a link underneath this episode if you want to check out some of his books. Chris has mainly looked into ghosts throughout his life. And so we'll talk a little bit about that too as well. There's a lot of reports of Sasquatch too in the Bridgewater Triangle area. And they go into that in the documentary. If you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquotronicles.com.

If you get a chance to check out Sasquotronicles.com, you can become a member and get additional shows. Let's jump into it tonight. I want to welcome Chris Balzano to the show. Chris, thanks for coming on. Thank you very much for having me. Yeah, no, thank you for being here. And I was watching this documentary on Amazon, and I was so enthralled with what was going on

in this Bridgewater Triangle area out there in Massachusetts. And I know that you were in the documentary, and I've actually taken reports of Sasquatch sightings in that area. It was before I even knew what the triangle was. And I was sitting there watching the documentary. I was sitting there thinking Skinwalker Ranch looks like Disneyland

compared to this triangle area. You know what I mean? It does. And, you know, I think that mirrors a lot of the experiences that people have there in that,

you know, the term Bridgewater triangle is fairly new. You know, it's only for the last almost 40 years that it's had an official label. And for that 40 years,

it hasn't been in people's conscience enough, consciousness enough for them to refer to it. I was like, oh, that's another bridgewire triangle thing that happened to me. So it is really one of those things where there's been a label put on it. People have been researching it. People have been looking at that angle of it. But people have been experiencing things that they can't explain in that area for hundreds, literally hundreds of years. And so, you know, it's that same kind of thing

of all these reports. Oh, wait a minute. All of a sudden there's a context to it, which is why so many people, if you have Bridgewater Triangle, anything on your website or your research, people find it because they're looking for the individual towns or the individual areas within the triangle, and they end up finding that there's this name for it, and that there's a lot going on that goes on without that label. Yeah, it definitely has a long history of strange events, weird encounters, a very long history of it. You know, for the audience that may not be familiar with what we're talking about, can you kind of give a brief history of this area? You know, it's an area in Massachusetts, depending on how you look at it. In southeastern Massachusetts, about 200 square miles, which is, was originally kind of discovered by the cryptoswalist Lauren Coleman, who was looking into weird cases in Bridgewater, Massachusetts, hence the Bridgewater triangle part of it.

And Bridgewater really has three towns, Bridgewater, East Bridgewater, and West Bridgewater, which formed for him a natural triangle. But then as he was continuing and going deeper into some of these cases, he discovered that, well, I can take that back a little bit towards the north. And it ends in Abington. And then I can kind of push it out further. And it goes to the town of Rahobath and the town of Freetown. And so within that area, anything that you can find in the paranormal or the supernatural, you're going to find. So they've had Bigfoot sightings. They've had UFO sightings.

They've had cases of zombies. They have plenty of ghostly activity and things like that. And, you know, it's unusual in that they kind of take a life of their own. You know, people always ask me, well, how do you know it's not just, if you look at any area, you're going to see a whole bunch of activity. Bridgewater triangle activity kind of takes on its own personality. A lot of it, you know, you can go into a bar, and it's supposed to be a haunted bar, and the people will tell you that there's a story behind it, and they'll tell you the background,

and it kind of makes sense. So much of the ghostly activity, especially in the Bridgewater Triangle, makes no sense. There is no backstory. There is no explanation. And if you find one, then all of a sudden you start looking into that. incident and you find that what you thought was might be a cause of something is actually a symptom of the Bridgewater triangle. And so this area is, you know, one of the first that was really settled by the Pilgrims when

they came. And Plymouth Colony and Mass Bay Colony had their hands in this area. And what they found even back then in the 1600s was that places like the Hockamock Swamp, which is the physical heart. and a lot of people feel the mystical heart of the triangle. They didn't like it. You know, Hockamuk means place where spirits dwell. Even though they used it, especially in wars with the colonists,

it was a place that they generally avoided. Places like Freetown, which is what my first book is about, Freetown, Massachusetts, they willingly sold that property because they didn't like it. They avoided it. So there's always been something about that area of Massachusetts. And then now you kind of come down through the years and somewhat modern times, you have Bridgewater State Hospital, which has the highest suicide rate of any psychiatric facility in the country. Within the Bridgewater Triangle, and here's where my kind of interest in it really began as I was making connections.

You have a higher rate of divorce. You have a higher rate of fatal car accidents per car accident. you have all of these other things which are not, you can't grasp them and hold them the way you can, you know, a big foot that's seen that area. But there's just a weird tint to that place that has kind of gone through out the years. Yeah, one of the very first reports I took was from, I think it's called Freetown State Forest. I think that's right. Yes, it is. And I know it's from that area because the guy that I spoke to actually,

talked about the Hockamok swamp, which I always thought was a funny name, but he was actually from Colorado. His family was from that area, and they were out in the state forest, a Freetown state forest. I don't know what the distance is between the swamp and this forest, but it's a good distance. They're sometimes thrown in together when people do documentaries or when they're talking about it, but, you know, it's, it's probably about an hour's drive, I would say, between the two of them. Yeah, that is a lot farther than I thought. About 45 minutes.

He was kind of doing the tourist thing, you know, his family's from there, and he's actually lives in Colorado. And so he was visiting his aunt and his cousin. And when they were out there in the state forest, he thought he saw what, it was a bear. He thought it was, he was like, geez, they got big bears here up here in the northeast. And until it stood up and it wasn't a bear, it would be a saskatch in my mind. But the reason why, and at that time, I didn't know what. to make of this report, because I hadn't heard from a lot of people saying, well, the face looked

very human-like. You know, I thought we were looking for an ape at the time. And he wasn't sure, you know, he's describing a Sasquatch, but he said it turned and looked at them, and it had the face, very human-like face. And he said, it reminded them of like an old Native American that's been in the sun, you know, kind of that, you know, kind of wrinkly skin. And he said it, but the face looked very human, just like a Native American. He said, but the body wasn't human. And he said, it looked like it was pissed. Its whole face just kind of went down like it was mad. His aunt takes off running. His cousin takes off running. He ends up taking off running. And I'd asked him, you know, I said, well, what makes you think it wasn't Sasquatch? And he goes, I'm telling you, the face was

very, very human. But there's a ton of Sasquatch reports throughout that whole area out there. Yeah, the Bridgewater Triangle is, is ripe with them, especially the Bridgewater area. and of course the Hockamock, which is interesting about what you say is that Freetown is the subject, and the Freetown State Forest specifically is the subject of my first book, Dark Woods, because it's to me the heart of the Bredgewire triangle, even though it's an apex. And of course, I believe that the Bridgewater Triangle extends beyond the boundaries that were officially kind of put on it in the late 70s. And then in 1983 with Mysterious America, Lauren Coleman's book.

But the interesting thing is that the Puck Wudgy reports that I've gotten from Freetown are different from the Puck Wudgy reports that I've gotten from other places in New England and then beyond, which of course to me also means that there's more than one species of Puck Wagi, which we can get into a little bit if you want to. but the interesting thing is and here's where it fits in with your bigfoot the ones that are reported in the Freetown State Forest are much more human-like in the face than the ones that are seen elsewhere. So people have described these small ones, these are small ones as opposed to giant Sasquatch or Bigfoot-type ones. But when they describe the ones in the Freetown State Forest versus the other ones, the face looks more human and their nose. is less pronounced than the ones that are reported in other places. And of course, free town is where the Wampanog reservation is as well. And so of all the places, it even has a deeper connection to the Wampanog and to the Native Americans of that area.

Yeah, and for the audience, Chris, would you explain what a Pukwaji is? Sure. A Pukwaji is about a three foot. You know, the size varies, but it's around that size. We might call it a gnome or we might call it a fairier and elf, but they are these creatures who are, they're kind of in that blurred line. They might be encrypted and yet they have very supernatural and paranormal abilities such as shape shifting. But they are these mischievous creatures who at times are just straight out malevolent who have been tormenting the people in that area and in New England for, well, I mean, there's. the first tales were Native American tales.

And the Native Americans talked about them kidnapping, kidnapping kids and leading people out into the woods and killing them, burning villages at one point. And so they're this constant source of trouble, little mischievous things, but then especially if you impede upon their territory, things can get downright nasty for you. And these things are as physical as, you know,

anything as a real person. Every person I've talked to who has had an encounter reports it as meeting this small little creature in the woods, this troll-like creature in the woods, who, you know, he's not shiny, he's not, you know, there's not a light around him. He isn't fade away or disappear, you know, in some supernatural sense. He's there. He's watching them. And then in almost every report that I've taken, he then appears to them a few days later. And when he appears a few days later, it's on their turf, in their bedrooms, or one person was a parking lot where they were waiting for someone. And they appear, and they're just kind of staring at you.

I always describe it as their way of saying, you might know where you saw me, but I definitely know where you live. And it's a warning. And so people have, I mean, I've gotten now through the years after, you know, really doing Puckwedge your research for over 15 years, I've got, you know, a few dozen reports of these things in New England, specifically in the Freetown State Forest and other places in the Bredoir Triangle, and then, you know, other places across the country as well. Yeah, I know different Native Americans have different names for them. But when you're just, so to describe a Pukwaji, it just looks like a three-foot-tall kind of human being. Yeah. And like I said, over the years, I've now come across several

different species of them. If people go and they Google Pukwaji, they're not going to find any version that I've ever seen or taken reports of because in the past 15 years, decade and a half, they really have captured the imagination. So people put all these physical traits on them that no one has ever actually really reported. They seem to have not claws as sometimes viewed, but human-type hands. Sometimes they're covered in a lot of hair or a lot of fur. The mythology of them says that they're constantly covering themselves in things from around the area. So specifically, there's one of them covering themselves in grass. And so that's kind of taken on a life of its own on the Internet and things like that.

But at their essence, the dominant species of them look like small little people, like these trolls. that, I mean, you're not going to confuse them with a small person because they usually have the elongated nose. They usually have a more sickly color to them, a more pale color to them. But you would run into that, and you definitely were looking at something that was not human, but it has very human-like features.

And then, of course, there's ones that are completely covered in hair and look more like little monkeys or whatever, but they still have some resemblance of human in the face. What's some of the reports you've taken that kind of stand out to you regarding these puck wudgeys? Well, I mean, in the Bridgewater Triangle area, we have, the case of Joan is the one that people constantly are kind of drawn to. But it follows a pattern. She was walking with her dog in the woods, and she came across this, creature. She came across this creature who she had no name for. I had no name for at the time,

and she told it to me. And it was just staring at her. And then the dog made a noise. She looked towards the dog. She looked back and it was gone. A few nights later, she was asleep in her bed. She was woken by something. She doesn't mind. She kind of just stirred and she looked. And the same exact creature was looking at her through her window, just kind of smiling at her. She was on the second floor. So there's no way that someone would actually be able to be looking into the window and he didn't seem to be peering through. That is one of the first cases that I came across. Since then, I've heard of cases of them hanging out in cemeteries. So one person clearly saw the Pukwagi kind of watching them in the cemetery and then the same thing. A few nights later,

he was asleep and he was actually in the basement. and the Pukwaji appeared to him in the room. Same smile, same kind of consciousness. And then it kind of goes from there. Like people have had these instances. I've had two encounters, I think, directly with the Pukwaji trilogy or Trinity, as I call it. So Pukwajis are in command of these things known as Tai Pai Wankas. And Tai Pai Wankas are balls of light.

you know, or we might call them Will the Whisp, or we might call them Ghostlights. Investigators might call them orbs, but not the kind that you get after you've taken the picture, but the kind that you see, you know, in real time. And these are supposed to be the souls of the people that they have led directly to their death, or souls that they've been able to harness. And so a lot of people report seeing these little things scurrying in the woods and then being followed by these flashes of light, these balls of light. If people want to look for, you can Google when Puck Wudge's Attack, which is a video I made

years ago to promote one of my books because I was using an investigative team. And so it was for my book, Picture Yourself Ghost Hunting. And so I wanted to show how different types of groups work. And so I took this group out to the Freetown State Forest to show how, a group can be very technical and yet also metaphysical. And so this group was anchored by investigators who were pure science-based. At the time, they had a heat camera because one of them was a fireman and he used to borrow the camera from there. So this is, you know, before it was in every investigator's toolbox to have these heat cameras.

And yet they also had a medium with them. And they worked at both the evidence that they got from the medium and from the, from these, their equipment, they held up the same way. And so I want to show that kind of team out in a forest. And so we went to the Freetown State Forest. We went to an area known as the Asanet Ledge, which to me is the most haunted place within the Bridgewater triangle. And we were trying to capture a Pukwaji.

We were trying to get an image of one or any other activity we could. And we were packing up. And as we were packing up, I just felt the area completely changed. Like my body was having a physical reaction to the changes that were going on in the atmosphere. And I just said out loud, something's changed. And I looked over to the medium and I said, you know what I'm talking about. And almost instantly, her eyes went back, like the way you see in creepy movies. I yelled for the cameraman to come back and start filming again.

And this is what you see in the video when Puck Wedgy's attack, which is actually in the documentary as well. She goes through what can best be called some kind of weird possession. Me and one of her, the other people in the group, we tackle her. And she's just got these inhuman noises that are coming from her. And it was one of those experiences that was really intense at the time. Now, I had worked with her before, and I had seen her basically do this kind of thing every place we've ever gone.

She gets possessed by something and freaks out like this, right? So it's out there, believe it or don't believe it. We didn't set it up for her to do that. In my opinion, I think that she fully believed that something was physically attacking her. The unfortunate thing that that video doesn't show is that as we are kind of getting her and calming her down, all of these lights appear in the woods around us, not headlights because there's really no one that's out there driving. You can't hide a car. And it is the woods. If it was a car, we would see it. But all these lights kind of appear and disappear, like the

type of hunkas of stories as we're doing that. It's probably the most intense puck-wetching moment. And yet the part that people see in both the documentary and on the line video is only really partly of what happened there or part of what happened. Yeah, that was Marine from the Bridgewater. Yeah, from Bridgewater. She had you know, if she's full of crap, she had me fooled because I was

shocked when I watched it. I mean, because she does, she sounds like a demon. In May of 2008, a bizarre incident was caught on camera while filming a segment for Chris Balzano's book and DVD. Picture yourself ghost hunting. The following

clip features a woman named Maureen struggling with what some investigators claim was possession at the hands of a puck wudgy. Maureen, push your mouth. Ron, you still connect you here. Ron, watch you're going back too far. Yeah, here, here. Maureen. Come on, Marine, fight him. Oh, come on, Maureen. Oh, come on, Maureen. Don't let her go back too far, Ron. Don't let her get into one. Yeah. No, no. Maureen.

Maureen. Maureen. Maureen. Leave this, boy. You can't leave this for you. It's not your own. Leave. Leave.

Leave it. Leave it. Leave it. Leave it. Leave it. Leave it. Leave it. According to camera operator Andrew Lake, a strange light was later seen in the distance as Maureen recovered from the alleged attack.

She sounds very demonically possessed when she's growling and she's not a very big woman. Was it you that first jumped on her? Was it another guy that kind of held her down? I'm the one who takes out her legs. Oh, okay. Because I know the first guy, the first guy is actually, you know, he's much bigger than she is. And she's kind of throwing him around. He's really struggling with her. And again, she's not that big of a woman. Yeah, I mean, like I said, I've seen her. You know, we did something that's place called Dungeon Rock. And, you know, if anyone Googles a picture of me, they're going to see me at Dungeon Rock. It's the worst picture.

I wish I could take it off the internet. My students, I'm a teacher, they find it all the time, and then they post it everywhere because it's such a hilarious picture of me. But it was in a tunnel that had to have been, I think, four feet high. I mean, we're literally crawling through, crouching through doing this, and she did the same exact thing. So if she's faking it, she has absolutely no concern for her body whatsoever. Because she flipped out in this tunnel.

she flipped out. Now, what people don't see because it's dark is that there is the bottom of that. The Asanaet Ledge leads to a, I'm totally blanking on what the word is, but a watering hole. That watering hole is pretty much an abyss. It's practically bottomless. There have been multiple suicides at that location. There have been dozens of bodies dumped specifically in that water and it's not pleasant. So for her to go as crazy as she was going and getting that close to that water's edge is not something that someone wants to do is like, okay, I'm going to do something that looks really cool. Let's let's film this. It totally is a moment where if she's not faking it, or if she is faking it, she's putting herself a tremendous risk for it. Yeah, and Chris,

that place you're talking about, is that the place they're call the ledge? Mm-hmm. Yes. Where, what is it, a ghost, a woman appears. A lot of people think it's a woman that's going to jump off the ledge. There's a woman who does jump. There's a ghost who does jump from there.

I believe she's a woman in black, not a woman in white, but a woman in black who people have seen her over the years dozens of times. People who I take as being 100% serious, 100% straightforward, have seen this woman without knowing that there's a legend there, and then someone tells them. And she goes to the edge, and she jumps off. And of course, I'm an analytical folklorist, so I'm a ghostly folklorist. So I love the idea that people say, you know, she went up there, uncommitted suicide because she couldn't be with the man she loved.

In addition to that, on the Assonant Ledge or at the Asanit Ledge, there have been multiple suicides, as I said. There have been people who, when they go there, they go there of an entirely straight mind, friends literally have to stop them from committing suicide because they're overwhelmed by something they can't control. People have seen ghost lights in the water. And a lot of the paranormal is about the prism that you view it through. So people have said that they've seen UFOs there while other people call them ghost lights, but there are these lights that rise up from out of the water. People have seen puck wedgies and other ghosts of Wampanog. They describe them as

as looking Native American, climbing up and down that peak, even though it's pretty dangerous and no human would actually do that. Yeah, and for the audience, it's in the documentary. They talk about it. That whole area just fascinates me, you know, as far as all the weird stuff. You know, going back to the puck wudge, one thing you said earlier, there's two different types of them. What's the other type?

Well, there's more than two types. but the you know if you watch that documentary you'll you'll have the infamous i want you episode which is when a man was walking his dog and he underneath a street light saw this completely furry three foot tall creature who begged him to come with him he kept saying you want you you want you cora cora and he tried to draw him into the woods that i think is a puck wudgee experience. Like people have asked me since that documentary, was that a puck wudgy? Was it something else? Because it doesn't look like one. That I believe is a variation of the puck wedgy. Yeah, that's right. The E want you. William Rousseau, let's take a listen.

Perhaps the most intriguing, yet lesser known report of a cryptic animal siding in the Hockamok swamp occurred in 1990. Former random resident William Rousseau will never forget his amazing up close and personal encounter. Back at the late 1980s to about the mid-1990s, I was working a three-to-midnight shift in the town of Reinhame where I lived, and that's where my strange happening occurred.

When I got off work every night at midnight, I'd walk my dog, Samantha. She was a Rottweiler Shepard mix, big, around 90 pounds. Now, usually we walked on the sidewalks towards the center of town, But in this particular night, we walked a different route. I don't really know why, but we did. Right behind my house is an area we called the High T's,

claimed by the electric company. They run those high-tension wires. It's about 50 feet across and overgrown with 100-foot pines. So it's kind of like a route for kids who want to take shortcuts and who knows what kind of wildlife during the day. And at night, maybe stranger things. I went perhaps a half a mile when I came to an old water wheel

that ran an early ironworks back a couple hundred years ago and there's a street light at this road and the street light casts a big circle of light right in the middle of the street about a 10 foot radius so as I approached the road all of a sudden Sammy my dog started to pull at the leash

and I looked down and she was quivering she was shaking she was rattling like an old Chevy and then a few moments later I heard what was scaring the dog it was a high-pitched almost a whale and it went like this it went he want you he want you here here he want you now the hairs of my back of my neck started to go up and Sammy of course she was just absolutely in terror And suddenly I saw something walk. It was erect standing straight up.

It walked into the middle of that circle of light that was cast by the street lamp. It was about three or four feet tall. It had a pot belly. And as I walked a little closer, I saw that it wasn't clothed. It had hair that was maybe three, four inches long, totally covered in hair.

It had eyes that were perhaps a little big, for its head but not hugely disproportionate. The face perhaps looked like the chipmunk. At first I thought it was a child, but as I analyzed it, I thought it was in the beginning stages of old age. I don't think it was young. Whatever it was, it wasn't young, but it was speaking, I mean, definitely speaking, and it kept saying, I want you, I want you, get more insistent, and it started beckoning me.

Kier, Kier, he want you. It wasn't threatening me, but what was weird, it wasn't advancing to me. It didn't come near me. It wanted to get me in its space. This is what I felt like. I wish I could say that I was brave enough to go right up and, you know, get that close from it, but I couldn't. I was scared.

And my Sammy, Samantha, was scared, so we turned around and we walked home pretty fast. And I stayed up the whole night analyzing what could this be, what could this be? And here's what I think it was saying. My best guess is, he want you is we want you. We want you. Here, here, come here. I think it was speaking English. Strange, man.

It's really, really strange. And I know you've talked about it, Chris. You've experienced these things. My first experience with one was years before I even knew that word existed. was in a cemetery in Wilton, Massachusetts, Wilton, New Hampshire, I should say. And those were described by Fiona Broom, if your audience know whose Fiona Broom is,

as being Grover on a bad day. So in other words, completely hairy, violent, angry-looking, moving rapidly. And when I pressed her, when we were doing an interview together, I pressed her, and she obviously didn't have kids. because it was all red.

So I'm like, so not Grover on a bad day, but Elmo on a bad day. And so there's another variant of Pukwaji, which kind of takes that persona as well, or that physical characteristic where it's got, you know, short red hair and less of a human face, but still kind of, you know, human light to some degree. Tell us about it. Tell us what happened. So you're in a graveyard and kind of walk us into what happened. Sure.

So oddly enough, it was. was my bachelor party. And rather than go to strip clubs and do that kind of thing, we decided to go on an investigation, or what I would call even, you know, looking back on it, much more of a legend trip. And so we went out to our first location and the cops promptly told us to leave. And so I said, well, you know, there's this, there's a cemetery in Wilton where there's this really cool story about a woman in blue who, you know, walks the cemetery. and there's also this other weird kind of guy who walks around looking for his daughter.

We should totally go there. This woman in blue is seen by a ton of people, and we can try to capture something, or we just kind of experience it. I said, but just so you guys know, according to the website, you know, Hollow Hill, there are these little like monster type things that attack people. And we were all, ah, who cares about? We don't believe in that stuff. You know, that stuff's not really going on.

And so we went there. And as I was in the cemetery and we were looking for the grave of Mary Ritter, who is this woman in blue, or this blue lady, I should say, I started to see these little bursts of light in the woods. And there was something mesmerizing about them, something hypnotic. And I decided to follow that light, right? And as I got to where I had seen the light, I saw it a little further into the woods. And so I decided to follow it there. And as I was, and of course, everyone was following me as I'm going deeper and deeper into the woods till we were, you know, probably 50 yards into the woods. And I just got that sense of dread.

Like something is drying us out here. Like, I'm not following something. Something's tracking me. Something's pulling me out here. And I was like, you know what, guys? I've got a bad feeling. Let's go back to the main cemetery. And as we start making our way back to the main cemetery, these balls of light, these Tai Piwunkas became more frequent.

And they were, once again, off a little bit to our left and to our right as we were trying to make our way back. And I'm like, nope, just ignore them. Just ignore them. Let's get back to the cemetery. We get into the middle of the cemetery and you would have thought it was the most famous person in the world and the paparazzi were going crazy because the flashes of lights in these woods were just pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. I mean, it was like we were in the middle of a stage and people were just taking our photograph. And they're like, what do we do now? And I said, nope, nope, let's keep going.

let's keep going. We got to get out. And so we started to leave the cemetery. And as we were leaving, we saw a family plot that had a large headstone, a smaller headstone, and then seven or eight really small ones. And one of the people I was with was very drawn to this, because she's like, that's a family. You know, that's kind of, and so we were watching it. And as we watched it, the third part of the Pukwaji trifecta, which is this dark, shadowy figure which seems to be around where Puckwetjis are and seems to be watching. But according to Christianized Wampanogs, it's the devil who commands them to go out and do these things.

As we were standing there watching these graves, trying to get the names off of them, this dark figure, this large dark figure literally rose from the ground. behind them, it started coming towards us. And as it started to come towards us, it went from being just what looked like a thick black smoke to becoming a more solid form. And it was at that point, I was like, I wish that I had gone with strippers and we left. Yeah. I don't blame me, man. I don't blame me. What do you think those puck wuggies are? I mean, do you think that they is so bizarre. It reminds me of the dog man, to be honest with, or what we call. called the dogman or you might call werewolf. People do run into them. I've had cops run into them.

And just as a side note, you know, the Bridgewater Triangle documentary, it does interview a lot of eyewitnesses. And I didn't think anyone was lying in that thing. I mean, I walked away and thought, I believe that guy. I believe her. I, yeah, yeah. You know, there wasn't anyone where I thought, out of that guy's full of crap. I mean, they have cops in that thing. But going back to the dog man, I mean, I've had cops that have shot at them. Doesn't seem to affect them, but they'll follow them home. This dog man will follow people home. It'll show up at their house.

It'll show up outside their window. And it seems to kind of be very physical, but not physical. It's bizarre. I have no explanation for even Sasquatch at times. Seems to be very physical. And other times, you know, there's bizarre stories. But what do you think the puck wudgeys are? I think that they are physical.

I just think that their abilities and the way that they travel is not physical or not, not, you know, makes no sense to us. So a really good example of this is in Indiana, right? So I went to Indiana because when I first started doing my research, the only other place that I found that mentioned Pukwajis, although they were spelled differently, was Indiana. And so I went to Mound State Park to see if I could connect with whatever the Puckwagi situation was there. And we were able to interview someone once again, a ranger, straightforward, like, you know, didn't fear losing his job from talking it. But we're talking, this is, you know, essentially like a worker being like, here's what I experienced. It happens to other people. They've reported it too.

And as we kind of walked the trail that the park itself puts out as like, oh, we just call this our Puckwaji hunting trail, we were clearly, in addition to being on these burial mounds, we were also clearly in a ferry ring. And so as we had our experience in that area, if you looked around, there were circles of trees which had. had rot in them. And so it's not the rot that you would normally see. Sometimes it goes straight through, but there are these little triangles as the best way you can report them inside of these trees where the wood has died or the wood has been chopped away for some reason or they've grown in a weird way. And the folklore about that is that those are vortexes, right? that those are literally the passageways between different realms. And so these mythical creatures can come through and can travel using these fairy rings and these fairy trees.

And then we had an experience at one of these kinds of trees of a puck wedgey again. So it's, it's, you know, I think that even though there's not a lot in Bigfoot lore of them transforming into different things, there is in Puckwagi lore. and there is in fairy lore. And so I think that the reason why people have never caught a puck wedgy or seen a dead puck wudgy is that they can travel in our world through these portals, through these fairy rings, through these fairy trees, but then also they can transform into things. And what was your experience out there? You said you experienced something?

Yeah. Tell us about it. So we were tracking. you know, these rings and kind of very aware of, okay, so now we're in a ferry ring, even though they didn't call it that, it was clear to us. And we were walking pretty close to the road when we both saw, my partner at the time, Natalie and I, we both saw a shadowy figure moving in the woods. And it had kind of like that predator thing where the light seems to be reflecting or refracting. but it was also a little bit dark. And we're watching it, and it was about three feet tall.

And it was going right next to one of these trees that has that fairy ring feel to it, that fairy ring rot to it. And we're both like, did you see that? And so we decided to pursue it. So we both kind of start walking towards the tree. As we start walking towards the tree, there became, there was. was a swarm is the best way to describe it of lightning bugs. And they, it's, it sounds as cheesy as I'll get out, but it was just like in the movie Brave.

They literally were, they literally formed two sides of a path to this tree. As we started to walk towards the tree, I continued to walk. Natalie got distracted because she saw a pile of crab apples with bites taken out of them or sections taken out of them, which is kind of linked into Pukwaji lore of Indiana. And so she kind of becomes mesmerized by these apples, and I'm continuing to walk. And I'm still seeing that scurrying from different areas deeper into the woods. In other words, it's moved to someplace else. I get to the original tree, and I look back at Natalie, and right in front of my eyes,

manifests a deer. Now, I've lived in the woods. I lived in New Hampshire. I've been plenty of places where there are deer, and I understand the surprise when a deer makes itself known. Like, whoa, this, it wasn't there one second, and then all of a sudden it was there. And there's in the stories, Puck Wedgies transforming themselves into dears. I'm in the woods. The deer is between Natalie and I. It looks towards me, looks towards her, bounce three times towards the road jumps and disappears. And almost immediately you can tell the entire area feels differently. The lightning bugs disappear instantly. And we were like, okay, we've just, that was our Pukwedgy experience. We've gotten it.

It's bizarre, man. That's really bizarre. And it's profound, too, because it was, what I felt, I know this sounds ridiculously silly, but as a researcher of that, what I felt was, we're going to give you a little something. You know, that it was not we were impeding on their territory, but we're going to show you something as a, as, it's weird to say as a reward,

but as proof and as kind of to keep you going with this, we're going to give you a little bit of a, you know, we're going to wet your beak a little bit with this. Yeah, one question I want to ask you about the puck woggies is, have you ever heard of them beyond the, William Russo account where it was saying, E want you. Have ever heard them talking or did they actually talk or is it more of a

mind speak or are they silent most of the time? Right. I get more of a mind speak because people get that message of don't come back to the forest. But they never report ever actually hearing anything. But I have heard accounts both in the folklore and from people, things like whooping or singing but not necessarily in English but never as much as that Russo moment of like you want you but you know hearing those hearing

hearing noises from the woods or or cries from the woods or more often a weird singing from the woods and then and then you know that that kind of knowing what they're saying to you without actually any words being spoken And I don't know how much you've looked into Sasquatch, but with all these different genres, well, I guess it's not necessarily different genres, but when I'm talking about it's like puck wudgeys, alien encounters, lights, Sasquatch, do you notice a lot of correlation

between all the different subjects? You're like, oh, I've heard about that before, but I've actually heard about it over here. I mean, have you noticed that as you looked into these different topics? do you mean like the same locations that have ghosts have puck wedgies and have UFOs and have bigfoot no no i mean like weird um coincidences i'll give you an example um yeah sometimes with uh Sasquatch for example it doesn't get reported as much as you might think but it does get reported even less stroud survivor man i had him on the show he was talking about mind speak uh with the Sasquatch. And I've had other people who really didn't know how to explain what happened.

They were saying, I heard it in my head. And what I find interesting is you'll see that with demonic encounters, or you'll see that with alien when people claim to be abducted. They don't talk to you through their mouth. It's usually through your mind. That's what I mean. Do you find like weird coincidences between different topics like this actually happens in ghost hunting too you know like the lights with the puck wudgeys people who have saskwaches on their property 99% of time will start to tell you about these weird balls of light that they see on their property i think i've only had one person tell me no everyone else was shocked that i would even ask a question like how did you know that it's because it gets reported so much do you have you found that as you looked into these different topics yes definitely

I mean, these themes arise from them. So within the Bridgewire Triangle, here's a really good example. Shadowmen, right? And shadow figures, especially in the Bridgewire triangle, always accompany other paranormal activity. No one just has a moment where they say they see this dark figure. Instead, it's all this other activities going on, and then this dark figure seems to be watching them,

or seems to be observing or a lot of, of people. I'm not sure if they put their, they're putting their thing on it, but say, feeding off of what's going on there. Tonton State Hospital, which is not covered in the documentary, because you really can't go there. But there are so many stories from people who used to work there, of time slips, of people who actually have time slips in the basement of satanic rituals or some kind of cult ritual that's happening in the basement, which has both fed and been kind of, you know, the foundation of these reports that they used to take patients into the basement and do weird things with them and use them in this cult activity.

And people who have worked there have specifically had time slips when they've been there. So timeslips are another thing that happen often where there is other stuff going on, this loss of time. But in these timeslips, they actually go back to that moment. and are watching the ritual take place. And they can smell the fire and they can feel the heat and they can hear the chanting. And then I began my teaching career teaching criminals, right? Teaching juvenile criminals.

And that facility at that time is being used as a prison for kids. And the number of kids who didn't know each other, but who reported to me over the course of five years, experiencing weird things in that basement, not refusing to go. like losing privileges because they refuse to bring supplies down to it or take it up, seeing balls of light in the hallway. And then to a kid, everyone reports this activity and the activity might be slightly different. And then they report being watched by a dark figure at night that they would wake up and in the corner of the room there would be this dark figure. Now, a lot of the kids, because of where they're coming from, described it as venom, like, you know, from Spider-Man, venom. and you find those kinds of things, that dark figure appears in so much of the

Bridgewater Triangle activity. In Ghost of the Bridgewater Triangle, there's a few reports of it as well. That is kind of a common theme. So I think especially, you know, now putting the folklorist hat on, when I am out now looking and following up on these ghostly legends, they all have the same elements to them. They all have some kind of thing going on and then the ghost lights appear. and then, you know, and then there's this other thing that happens. So I think that these themes and these these consistencies throughout all supernatural

and paranormal encounters kind of point to some kind of unified theory. We just don't know what it is yet. Yeah, I hear you. And I know you mainly do, you deal with ghosts and that sort of thing. And I kind of want to ask you some of the more bizarre accounts that you've personally, you know, been a part of. one of the things that they cover in the Bridgewater Triangle documentary, they talk about Sasquatch, they talk about, you know, lights, ghosts, a lot of UFOs, actually. The first UFO encounter in the United States.

Really? As well. I didn't know. Yeah, it was in the Bridgewater Triangle. I think in 1778, I might get the dates wrong because, you know, UFOs aren't my specialty, but I'm pretty sure. Whatever it is, it is the first UFO encounter recorded or documented in the United States. States. Do you know that account? I am, I think it was just like a, like a flyover kind of thing,

and then it's zoomed off. It's in the, I believe they cover it in the documentary itself. I just, I can't remember the exact details of it. I gotcha. Yeah, you know, one of the things in the documentary is the, I was wondering if you talk about the horn, what is it, the Hornbine School? The Hornbine School, yeah. Yeah, and it's a, would you kind of explain what that is and kind of, there's a weird account in that documentary of a person, I think it was a teacher actually, that went there. But can you kind of explain what that school is and some of the weird accounts? So a lot of the activity of the Bridgewater Triangle, before it became popular as a bridgewater

triangle, comes from a book called New England Ghost Files. And it is impossible to find anyone in the paranormal who has a slightest interest, who has not read this book in New England. It is kind of like a ghost story Bible for people. And a lot of the stories in that book take place in the town of Rehoboth, which also happens to be one of the apexes of the triangle. That was because the guy who wrote the book, Charles Robinson, was from that town. He lived in that town. He was an anthropologist. He was a Harvard trained anthropologist, who in his studies also was kind of tracking down legends. and so he constantly was falling into ghost stories that people wanted to tell him.

And so he would push them out, having no idea that that would be his legacy were these ghost stories. And he talks about the Horvine School, which I believe dates back to the 1700s, if not the early 1800s. And now it's just a historical landmark. So Rojobith, in addition to having more cemeteries than I think any town in the United States, especially for a small town where horses outnumbered people. But it has all these great historic landmarks. They're really into capturing and preserving their history. So there's a lot of historical monuments, a lot of preserved buildings. And one of them is this Hornbine school. And one teacher one day reported that she went to the school and she was looking at it just for its historic value. Like, wow, here is this classroom. And sometimes it's open and

sometimes it's not. So it's not generally open unless they're doing an event or there's someone there because it is a historic building. The day that she went, not only was it open, but there was a teacher and a full class. And she observed them for a few moments until the teacher kind of saw her and gave her this very disturbed look like, you're disturbing my class, like, get away. And so she walked away from the situation. and she went, you know what? Like, I really should apologize. And she went back into the building to try to get into the building to apologize to the teacher and to the class.

And they had disappeared. And she reported that both the kids and the teacher were in period time closed. Like they didn't seem to be in modern day clothes. And since then, that was the first report, but there had always been kind of whispers about that building anyway. And since then, people have reports. reported once again, these ghost lights in that area. Every once in a while, someone says that they've seen someone, a little kid especially, who seems to be dressed weird, running up the stairs and going into the school,

and then disappears when they get to the door. So it's just very, you know, it's a lot of times ghosts are spooky, and I guess that would be eerie just because it's not supposed to be there. But it's one of those hauntings that has been consistent throughout the years, and yet it doesn't seem to freak people out. They almost seem to embrace it. Yeah, it's strange, man. You know, one of the questions I wanted to ask you is regarding your own experiences.

And it doesn't necessarily have to be regarding the Bridgewater Triangle area. It can be anywhere. What's kind of the, as you're out looking for ghosts, you're doing your thing. What's the most terrifying experience you've ever had out there doing that? Or maybe the most bizarre or the most scary? You know, it's really, that's really two different questions because, you know, I, at the scariest moment in my either investigative or legend tripping life has been right after that Pukwaji experience in Indiana, we decided to go to a hundred-step cemetery, which is in Brazel Indiana. and I call it the most documented haunting in America because it is the subject of a huge study by the University of Indiana or Indiana University I should say. And if you know anything about folklore, you know, that's where the leading researcher, it's located in Utah and it's located in Indiana are the forefronts of folklore, ghostly folklore, urban legend study in the United States.

States. They have literally hundreds of variations of the ghost story of a hundred-step cemetery, which in essence is there's this cemetery in Brazel, Indiana, and you have to count the steps going up into the cemetery. So it's kind of built on this hill. The cemetery's at the top. You have to count the number of steps. And if you count the right number, which are now, like it's pretty degradated, when you get to the top, the ghost of the original caretaker of the cemetery will appear to you, and he will tell you the manner and time of your death. And then if you walk back down the stairs, counting the steps, and you get to the bottom and you reach a hundred, like in other words, you haven't misstepped, that's when you

will die. If you number or count wrong, you can either die with you. in the next week. You can fall into hell itself when you reach the bottom. You can die on the steps. So there's all this weird folklore that's attached to it. Anyone who's ever been in that part of Indiana knows it is in the middle of nowhere. We had just come off this very profound puck wudgy, you know, Tai Piwanka experience. And it was about an hour away. The sun is setting. And we're reading all of these different accounts of the folklore attached to this cemetery. By the time we reached the cemetery, and it is pitch black, there is no light from anything. We completely were terrified by the time that we reached just the gate of the cemetery, never mind actually going up.

If you look at our video of it, no one has ever seen me ever scared of that. Nothing happened. right nothing happened whatsoever there was no weird thing i didn't experience the caretaker we didn't fall into the pit of hell um it's this idea that it's supposed to be haunted it's this idea that at that moment at that place was a convergence not only of people's potential experiences there but the stories that for decades had been being told about it that's really terrifying there's something about that. There's something about being in a place that's supposed to be haunted, that you fully know what people have been saying about it, that terrifies you, even if nothing

actually happens. So that's one answer to the question. Like that's, you know, probably the most scared I've ever been, you know, out of, out there in the field looking for things. If you're talking about, I call it the case that's not supposed to be talked. about. And that is Amniville. I was approached by the writer Jackie Barrett. And Jackie

Barrett is a psychic and a freakishly accurate and spooky psychic. She came in second on the TV show and they said, you know, America's greatest psychic. Like it was a reality show. She came in second because the audience didn't like her. She

had been working on different cases and we met actually at the Lizzie Borden house. And she told me I was the only person, the only ghost person who she trusted. And she was calling me that night because she had gotten essentially all of the materials of Ronnie DeFaio's life. She had gotten all of the documentation. She had been made the primary, his primary caregiver. The word is escaping me what it is right now.

But it's when you legally have access to everything. Like they give you, you make the decisions for them. So for people who don't know, who just know Amniville, in terms of the, you know, the Warrens or the Lutzes, Ronnie DeFeyo is the man who killed his family. So. Oh, she was like the executor of his wife. Thank you. She was the executor of his estate because she had been having vision.

of him for years. He ended up calling her out of the blue, although it's not really out of the blue, and they had struck up a relationship, and she became his spiritual advisor. And there's actually a documentary about their relationship. She essentially exercised the demons out of him, if you believe in that kind of thing. She also wrote a book called Haunted Like Me, I believe it's called, Evil Like Me. I can't remember the exact name. But she wanted me to write a book about him. And she had all, she had boxes and boxes of his correspondence and his letters and, and, uh, his diaries. And she wanted me to co-author this book with her. Evil like me is the name of the book. And I had said, maybe like, like, there seems like there'd be

some legal problems with this, but I'm not quite sure. And so we talked for a while and she's like, I just really, you know, I'm like, you know, tell me what's out. Tell me what's up. And She said, since I brought these boxes into my house, three of my cats have died. I have spent my entire life working with spirits. There are now dark things in my house, these dark spirits who are walking throughout my house. She asked me to consult with her about what to do about these spirits, but then also to write this book. And I'm like, Jackie, why would I help you write the book if you're already experiencing dark things in your house? I don't want that stuff in my house.

Like, what are you crazy? Over the course of that conversation, the phone went dead five or six times. We had to keep calling each other back. I had just come off Darkwoods. In the book Darkwoods, which is called Darkwoods Cults Crime and the paranormal in the Freetown State Forest,

I get into several murders that happen as well as different active cults at the time in the Freetown State Forest. Since the publication of that book, I have been contacted by several of the subjects of that book. So in other words, murderers are sending me correspondence through jail. My wife at the time is like, absolutely not. You're like, this has got to stop. Like, I don't want, I'm tired of, I'm tired of you getting mail from convicted murderers.

And I, okay, so all this is in my head. And I'm like, you know, Jackie, give me a week to think about whether I want to work on this book, because I don't want amniville weirdos getting in contact with me. Like, I've got to keep my family safe. And okay, almost instantly, the dark figures started to appear in my house. So as a researcher, as a folklorist who goes out in the field and legend trips stories, as an investigator who in the past has gone to people's houses, you want the paranormal there. you don't want it in your house.

The amount of activity that began in my house after just agreeing to think about writing a book about Amuville was insane. In addition to the power constantly failing at my house. Now, I live in Southwest Florida. My power goes out in the summertime at least once a day. In the summertime. This was winter. and the power kept going out on us. I'm sorry, it was fall.

The dark figures started to walk in my house. At first it was you would just see something out of the corner of your eye, and it would be wistful. And you'd see it, and you'd wonder what was going on. You'd look twice, and then it would be gone. And this is kind of the apex of it for me, was I woke up one night and there was

a very solid, dark, human-type figure at the foot of my bed. I could not make out a face. I couldn't make out specific things except for the fact that I could clearly see shoulders, I could clearly see arms, and I could clearly see hands that were folded in front of it.

So I could see hands. No face. but I could tell that it was watching me. I'm able to move, so it's not like I have sleep paralysis, right? I'm able to move, and I'm watching it, and I'm looking at my wife, and she's completely asleep, and I'm watching it, and even though there's no features and there's no, not that much detail, I can tell it turns,

and it slowly starts to walk down the hallway towards my newborn daughter's room. I'm not paralyzed, but I'm not getting up until the dad button clicks it. And I jump out of the bed. I see it walking. There's kind of like a little turn at that part of the hallway. It turns towards where my daughter's room is. It goes through the door and my daughter immediately wakes up and start screaming. That's the moment for me.

That's my scariest moment. I burst in her door. It's gone. I call Jackie. that morning. I say absolutely no way. I'm going to be doing this with you. I'm sorry. If you need me to help you try to figure out what's going on. I'm like, but you're better, you know, you can talk to spirits. Tell the spirits to get the hell out of there. Like, I can't help, but I'm definitely not doing this book. That as soon as I called her,

that darkness that was kind of hovering over the house disappeared. Now, I end up getting divorced. So, you know, I'm not saying the house was a place of happiness, but still, it, it, You could definitely tell that week there was something going on and it kind of culminated in that. Now, the story doesn't really end there for me because every time, which is why we don't mention the case usually, every time I bring up that case on a show, like a radio show that's asked me about or something like that, just a mention of the case, usually the power goes out, the connection becomes I can't get the story out, which is funny because I was doing all that coughing, right? She publishes the book and she sends me a copy.

And at that time, she sends me the copy. It's in the mail. My son used to every day, we'd be playing outside. The mail would come. He would run to the mailbox. He would get the mail and he would run to the house with it. It was like his daily ritual. He's a kid of rituals.

That day, when the book arrived, he refused to go get the mail. He didn't know what was in there. I didn't know at the time either. But the book arrived. He refused. He'd have to go get the mail. Nope. Not getting it.

Not getting it today. Which was very odd. I get out the book. Oh, Jackie's book came. Great. I put it on my kind of table where at that time I was doing a lot of paranormal book reviews. And so I usually would have five or six books stack that I had to read. You know, or, you know, I was booking guests for other radio shows.

and so I was, you know, researching them or whatever. Always had a ton of books there, ghost books. The book was in the middle, like it wasn't on top. And my son would actually do an end around where the books were being laid, where the books were laid. He would actually be walking and then he would kind of walk this circle around it. And then it would be, you know, and then he would continue walking. The day that I opened up the book, I was on a bus for a school event. I was on a bus from where I lived to Orlando,

which is about, by bus, it's about a three-hour ride, three and a half hour ride. I took out the book. I started to read. I got through the first chapter and the bus broke down. Probably a coincidence, right? But as the guy was trying to figure out what was wrong with the bus, I was continuing to read, I put the bus away,

if the book away, the bus started backing up again almost immediately. I'm telling this to my, and this story is actually one of my books. up to this point in one of my books called Haunted Objects. I'm telling my sister this story. And I'm like, oh, yeah, you should, you know, it's in haunted objects. You should read it, blah, blah, blah. She's like, I want to read that book.

I'm like, all right. I pack up a whole bunch of books for my nephew and this book for my, for my sister to read. And she never calls to thank me. I'm like, oh, that's really weird. That's, you know, I get there to her house. She lives in New Hampshire. I get there, you know, probably about two years later.

And I see that my nephew has in his bookcase all of the books that I sent him. And so I asked her about the book. She was like, there was no other book in there. It was just the ones for him. I'm like, well, I specifically packed the Jackie Barrett book for you. Never, she never got it. So somewhere between me putting it in and sealing that box and her opening up, the book kind of vanished. You know, and it's one of those things where how many coincidences does it take

for you to really raise an eyebrow about something. Yeah, no kidding. The number of times that I have talked about the Amnneville case and tried to tell this story and get it out, um, and things have gone wrong, uh, is,

is, it's pretty much every time. I mean, it's too much for it to be a coincidence. I tried to tape the documentary of Jackie, uh, where she exercises, uh,

Ronnie Defeo, uh, three different times and all three times, something fails me trying to devr it off the television, including one time where the power in our house went out for the entire hour that it was being broadcast. It's one of those things that I avoid because it's that weird, unexplained within the unexplained side of the paranormal. And yet, it's like, you can't totally ignore it.

It's, it's there. These things really did happen to me. Yeah, it's bizarre, man. And the audience didn't hear that part because it was. cut out, but I was, I was asking, I was starting to wonder if you're okay, man. You were cough, you know, it sounded like you were struggling for about three minutes and then finally it went, went away. Why, why do you think with this case in particular, why do you think there's this heaviness, even talking about it or? I'm with it. It's, it's darkness.

You know what I'm saying? It is pure, um, you know, it is, it's pure lack of light and lack of hope. good and evil or weird words, but darkness isn't. There's an emptiness to it. And if you ask people, they would say that, you know, Ronnie Defeo was possessed. And that's why he killed his family, that there was something dark on that property, which has played itself out once again over centuries that emanates from it. That people who get involved in that case, bad things happen to them. People who live on that property, weird things happen to Now, since the Lutz's live there, people have reported no paranormal activity, right? And yet, the people who have looked into the case seem to have this dark cloud that follows them around when they are working on it.

And so I do think it emanates from it. I think that there is just a dark energy that follows that case. And once again, like probably created the details of it. You know, I used to get calls from a town in New York that I didn't know. And that week, I would get calls all the time. And I'd be like, okay, and I looked at the town, and it's where the prison is that he is, that he's currently housed. Do prisoners have cell phones with them? Is it possible that he was actually literally calling me?

Maybe, but how would he know me? Jackie had never mentioned my name to him. And so I think there's just these tentacles that come out of certain places and certain cases that impact those who dare to get involved. And I'm surprised, you know, it hasn't happened to me more, you know, with the amount of things that I've looked into. But with that case in particular, whenever I shift my involvement back into it, bad things happen and I immediately kind of take a step back. Yeah, darkness, good way to describe it. Similar to the Bridgewater Triangle. It's a good way to describe that area and surrounding areas.

For the audience out there, definitely go check out the Bridgewater Triangle documentary. I loved it. I thought it was fantastic. And Chris's podcast, Tripping on Legends. Chris, I got to have you back on the show, man. I mean, you're fascinating guy to talk to you, man. I really appreciate you taking the time. Thank you. I appreciate that.

Yeah, man. Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you again for having me on. And that's it for tonight, everyone. Remember, if you've had an encounter, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. If you get a chance to check out Sasquatch Chronicles.com, you can become a member and get additional shows.

Until next time, everyone.