Sasquatch Chronicles - SC EP:677 The Story Of Robert

Episode Date: August 2, 2020

A listener writes "Hi Wes, I had an encounter in 1979-1980 in Goshen, Virginia. We were at the Boy Scout Camp and got up early to try and see deer. I lived outside of Washington, D.C. so catching sight of a deer would have been a highlight for a young kid. As we walked through the woods near our cabins, there was a thick morning fog. We were being lead by one of the Scout leaders, it was a small group of maybe four or five people. As we walked along for maybe 10 minutes, I felt that there was another person or group with us. It was not the feeling of being watched but more like we were walking along two parallel paths in the woods. I recall hearing the irregular sound of sticks cracking etc. I wasn't familiar with these particular woods so I wouldn't know what was normal or unusual. As we stopped to look at some tracks, I recall looking into the woods and seeing something but not seeing it. It was as if something (a man-like creature) was standing flush against the trees..

In 1982, you know, we're in D.C. And if you've ever been to Washington, one of the big things is the fireworks display. I mean, it's awesome. You go out on the mall, you sit there, and the fireworks just explode over your head. And it poured rain in Washington all day. And it's rare, but it got canceled. And my brother was pissed. He went up to his room.

He slammed his door. And, you know, we're not going to see, you know, my dad can't control the weather. So we were expecting to go, and I'm in my room. It's probably 7.30 or 8, even later at that time. And my brother's friend, Robert, walked into my room. My brother's four years older than me, so he was 14 probably. And Robert walks in. Robert has his jacket, whether, you know, whatever you call it, slicker.

I don't know what word we use. Pancho, that's the word. And he's drenched. And he's in my room. He's not saying anything. And I'm like, you want me to go get my brother? He doesn't say anything. He sat down on my bed.

And I walked, knocked on my door. And I'm my brother, oh, I opened the door and I said, to my brother, I said, Robert's here. He's in my bed. And he's not saying anything. It's my bedroom. He's not saying anything. And my brother told me to F off loudly. And I shut the door.

I walked back in and I just said, My brother's not coming out. Why don't you go see him or something? I can't remember exactly what I said. And he walked down the steps. Robert walked down the steps. The next morning, the doorbell rang, and it was probably like 9.30 in the morning earlier,

9 o'clock, I don't remember. In our neighbor, Jennifer, was crying. And she said, Robert drowned last night. There's no way that Robert was 20 miles away playing with friends and he fell on a creek and he drowned. At that same time, that night before, he was in my room. It looked like somebody was bent over and had their head in the window of the deer blind. It either heard me or smelt me and he pulled his head out of the tent and stood straight up and that, that shocked me.

They don't make people that big. The way it moved, almost as if it was gliding across the beach. I've never seen anything move like that in my life. They were screaming at each other in gibberish. It sounded like a language and they were chuntering away, back and forward, back and forwards, back and forward. I know what a bear looks like, and there is no way on this planet of what I saw were bears. What are you reporting?

That son of a bitch is about 60 foot nine. I don't know. Do you see a mouse, sir? Yes, I'm looking right here. Uh-uh. This is Sam Starbook from London, UK, and you're listening to Sasquatch Chronicles. Welcome to the show, everyone. Thanks for being here tonight.

Got a great show planned for you tonight. We're going to be chatting with Perry, and Perry had an encounter when he was very young. He was at a Boy Scout camp, and he saw this creature in the woodline, kind of staring at him and his friends as they went through the woods. Very fascinating account, a little different account, actually, and you guys have heard this before. I've heard it before. A very strange description, and I'll let Perry get into it. Perry's actually had a lot of weird things happening to him throughout his life. You heard the story of Robert there in the beginning, and we're going to go a little bit more into that tonight.

If you've had an encounter and he'd like to be on the show, shoot me in a evening. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. And if you get a chance to check out Sasquatch Chronicles.com, you can become a member and get additional shows. Let's jump into it tonight. I want to welcome Perry to the show. Perry, thanks for coming on. Thanks, Wes. It's good to be here.

Yeah, it's great to have you on, Perry. Thank you again for being here. And I know you had an encounter many years ago out there in Virginia. If you would, would you just start from the beginning. Kind of tell us what you were doing. and what happened? So this was in Goshen, Virginia. It was at a scout camp,

and I was there with family. And so it was out of season, so there weren't any scouts there. But it's a big, I would say, probably like 5,000 acres. And my brother and I, we grew up outside of Washington, D.C., so the idea of seeing

deer was, you know, something unusual. And so we would see deer in the morning, early morning. And so we decided to get up early and one of the adults was going to kind of take kids looking for deer track and he had plaster pairs or something to pour to make tracks. And so we all got up early and walked by a dam and got beaver tracks. And then we were just sort of going away from the cabins. And this, like, Goshen was like my first time really in the woods. And so I wasn't used to being, you know, going into trails for long periods of time. And wasn't nervous, wasn't, but more, I guess you could say, the wonder of nature.

was really interested. I was probably this, I would say I was seven or eight. So we're going along a path. And there were, I guess you could call them obstacle courses or activities that scouts would have done. You know, rock climbing, not a rock climbing, but a wall with like a rope down it. Maybe a, not quite a zip line, but something you would balance on if that makes sense. like a line hooked up between two trees, that sort of thing. Does that make sense?

Yeah, get your badges or whatever, was it more or less? Yeah, like more activities, but these were sort of down in the woods. They weren't, you had to kind of, you'd walk a path, and then you'd see another one, and you'd walk another, you know, 100 feet, and there would be another kind of course there. Yeah. I felt like we weren't alone, number one. And there were about four of us, four or five of us, and just kind of walking along. And one of the things that I thought was curious that I talked to you about was that we smelled skunk the whole time.

I didn't think anything of it. We were kind of laughing about it, you know, Pepe Lepeu like skunk. But it was with us the whole morning. And so we're walking along. And I felt like the best way to describe it is that we were like we were on a path. and I felt like there was another group. And I could hear some noises. Again, I'm not used to wood, so I don't know what I would be listening for,

but it sounded like there were a group or something along with us on a parallel path. We got to a clearing. It was lightly drizzling. And the only way I can describe it is that there was something standing, I would say, 30 or 40. 40 feet away, tall, manlike. And I mentioned it to you that it seemed to be absorbed into the woods and that it almost looked like a silhouette of a man, much taller. And it was watching us.

I kind of felt like it thought it was invisible or it was camouflaged. So it was just kind of waiting for us to move on. It didn't feel threatening. I didn't feel threatened. And I did not say anything to anybody at the time. I just kind of looked up. I was like, oh. And we moved on, and that was the end of any interaction.

Again, that idea of being absorbed into the woods is what kind of just struck me. Now, and as a kid at the time, it just was really dark. not in the menacing way, but the structurally, it just didn't seem to be fit for where it should be in the woods, if that makes sense. And that's kind of it. And there was no, nothing else from that. We moved on. Let me ask you, Perry, when he say absorbed for the audience and you and I've talked about it, but for the audience's sake, can you describe that a little bit more like it's absorbing the light? Is that what you're, when he said absorbing the woods?

Yeah, I, you know, and me, you could help me flush this out. It was, you know, I, maybe I could mention that article that I talked to you about. Well, I'll tell you what I saw. It almost looked like a silhouette, like a cutout silhouette. But there was movement to it. It was, it was like a silhouette of a tall, something you would, if you were driving on the highway, and you saw a billboard and you could see the silhouette of something. It was standing there, but it seemed to have movement.

It was organic. It wasn't a cutout. That's what it sort of looked like. So it didn't, the way that light bounced against it, it almost looked like, that's the best way I could describe it. It just sort of was, it was just standing there in between some trees and just absorbing light. I yeah, it's hard to frame it. I said that I would sketch something and I'm and I and I'll and I'll do that.

It's just I could imagine it being a cutout, but it wasn't. It was it was moving, not a lot of movement, but moving enough that that, wow, there's something standing there looking at us. Okay. And then we just kind of moved on. I was telling you, I've had witnesses say that before and I'm always throwing off by it. But I've heard it so many times now. I don't know. I'm not sure what to make of it. I used to think it was because of a certain color that they had. You and I talked about that.

How I talked to, it was a special effects guy in Hollywood. And he was saying there's certain colors of black they don't use because it appears it absorbs the light. But, you know, I don't know that I've ever heard an animal that had that. But what's weird about these things is you will get those reports. I've talked to people where they can't really tell you details. It was basically an outline of a man, but it was so dark that even though it was daytime, it didn't really seem to be lighting this thing up. It was just dark, which is bizarre, you know. It was overcast, and there was like a light drizzle that morning, even a little bit of fog when we first kind of went out. And, you know, I said this to you also. I remember being a kid watching that

episode of In Search of where, you know, Leonard Nimoy talking about Bigfoot. So, you know, I would have been freaked out. I would have been looking for that. And this, it's like you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you look for what you want to see. And I wasn't looking for it. It just sort of was suddenly in my vision. It, it, it, I think what's interesting is in, and maybe with the, the light, that story of, um, you know, birds of paradise that can absorb 99.9.9. 9% of sunlight and and fishes, you know, angel fish deep in the, in water.

And I was going to more ask you, like what an interesting focus part of what Bigfoot does or is is something that is able to exist where we are.

I almost feel like whatever this was was, felt it was camouflaged and it was sort of just okay here they are again here are these scouts or these kids they're doing their thing i'm going to just let them pass i'm going to let them do their thing um nothing menacing and if it i wonder if it thought it was visible and this gets into whether some people some of us have some level of um intunedness to things like bigfoot or you know

you and I talked about ghosts and other things that it's our brains are more open to it. So, yeah, I'm struggling with that to define that. Yeah, I'm not so sure that people are more open to it prior to an experience. I've told you this off the air, and I've even said it on the show, that, you know, after you have an encounter, there's this weird thing that happens. And people who've had an encounter, we'll know what I'm talking about. People who haven't had an encounter, it sounds like BS. But after you have an encounter and you go back, let's say you're in an area or whatever, you'll get a weird vibe when they're around. I mean, you don't hear them, you don't see them, but you'll get a weird vibe. And I would imagine it would be the same with someone who, I was talking with Gary, this young man I had on Friday Night Show. and he was talking about how when he was a kid, he lived in this home that was haunted. And weird things would happen in the home, but he always had that uneasy feeling when something was just about to happen in this home. And he was bow hunting up in a tree.

And when he was bo hunting up in the tree, it's kind of a long story, ends up coming back to his grandfather's property. But he told me that feeling was very similar to when he lived in that haunted home. So maybe it's once you experience something, you remember, or your brain kind of clicks on a certain area that, you know, I don't know, I'm just a, I'm a caveman, man, man. You know what I mean? Yeah. But maybe your brain kicks on something to where it's like you've been in the situation before. And so those odd feelings come back up, you know, of when they're around. Kind of an uneasy, just a real uneasy feeling.

And there's no explanation for it. almost maybe something and I don't want to it's just for for you know your episode a couple of weeks ago where you're talking about the importance of language and when I say this like there's almost something marked it's that I shared something in that moment with that creature that maybe marks me in some way or others in some way to be a little bit more aware of it I mentioned to you hiking in West Virginia and my father-in-law at the time said, you know, take the gun with you as you're walking through. And I'm not, you know, I don't shoot a lot of guns. I've shot guns, but I'm not a hunter, you know, respect people's right to do this, et cetera, et cetera. But I felt, I had been in the woods there before walking in the woods. And this is in, you know, they had a couple hundred acres and, you know, away from everything, everything, very, very isolated. And I went in the woods. And I went in the woods on buddies ATV walking around sometimes in the dark and I would be like

a respectful level of fear just like okay I'm out here I need to know where I am don't go too far in etc etc but the time I took the shotgun with me and I went with another person we were walking through I definitely felt uneasy like real sense of disease walking around like I shouldn't be having this. I attribute it not to myself and this other kid walking. I do attribute it to the gun. Let me also throw this out to you, Wes. The kid I walked in the woods with ended up going to jail for manslaughter.

So there could have been something about him that was not kosher with whatever there was in the woods. And I just thought of that. You know, I was saying, okay, so there's, what's different? Well, we had a gun. I was there and I felt comfortable. Now this young kid was with me at the time. It's now somewhere in a prison. And maybe they picked up on something.

I don't know. And I'm not saying I had an experience other than I really felt uneasy. And I mentioned to you that I had been in Kenya in the woods on a safari. and, you know, walking in the woods and realizing, wow, we went way too far deep in the woods and the sun is setting earlier because we're right on the equator. That was scary to, you know, but anyway, all over the place. No, no, no, you're fine. You're fine.

I wanted to ask you, I kind of had a theory about what you saw that day. Oh, good. But I'll come back to that. Yeah. You know, regarding kind of your situation growing up, was this the only weird thing that ever happened to you? No, I, so I have always, you know, I'll be blind. I have seen ghosts.

I have had experiences where I, you know, knowing something a little bit of not quite ESP, I don't know the word for it. My, in 1982, you know, we're in D.C. and if you've ever been to Washington, one of the big things is the fireworks display. I mean, it's, it's awesome. You go out on the mall, you sit there and the fireworks just explode over your head. And it poured rain in Washington all day. And it's rare, but it got canceled. Probably the first time it got canceled. I was 10 years old. And we were waiting, hoping, we're going to wait to, 530, 630, can we go dad? My dad was like, no, it's not, it's going to be washed out.

We're not going. And my brother was pissed. He went up to his room. He slammed his door. And, you know, we're not going to see, you know, my dad can't control the weather. So I'm in my room and we're, you know, we were expecting to go and I'm in my room. It's probably 730 or 8, even later at that time. And my brother's friend, Robert, walked into my room.

My brother's four years older than me, so he was 14 probably. And Robert walks in. Robert has his jacket, whether, you know, whatever you call it, slicker. I don't know what word we use. Poncho, that's the word. And he's drenched. And he's in my room. He's not saying anything.

And I'm like, you want me to go get my brother? He doesn't say anything. He sat down on my bed. And I walked, knocked on my door. and I'm my brother, oh, I opened the door and I said, to my brother, I said, Robert's here, he's in my bed and he's not saying anything. It's in my bedroom. He's not saying anything. And my brother told me to F off loudly and I shut the door.

I walked back in and I just said my brother's not coming out. Why don't you go see him or something? I can't remember exactly what I said. and he walked down the steps. Robert walked down the steps. The next morning, my parents, I guess, went to work, and we got our, the doorbell rang, and it was probably like 9.30 in the morning earlier,

9 o'clock, I don't remember. In our neighbor, Jennifer, was crying, and she said, Robert drowned last night. Really sorry, said to my brother, said to me, sorry, he drowned last night, and we don't know anything about the funeral, etc., etc. And I was standing behind my brother, and he was just nodding like, uh-huh, okay, yeah,

and shut the door. There's no way that Robert was 20 miles away playing with friends, and he fell in a creek, and he drowned. At that same time, that night before, he was in my room. and my brother and I've talked about it since and my brother has a lot of anger about not just pulling away from the TV we had gotten a brand new color TV and I put it in my parents room and they gave us the black and white TV they said Mark you know it's my brother's name you put it in his room and he just he was angry and he's mad that that we didn't go

you know fourth of July and and in retrospect he just thinks why didn't I come out and do that. I talked to him about this and we've just sort of, you know, learning about the experience, trying to make sense of it, trying to make, okay, what is that? Why, why, why did Robert have to visit? And my brother said that same night, so after he did not come out of the room, so that the July 4th, which is the night that Robert drowned, he said he walked out of the house, and bare feet and he just kept walking down the hill and he walked probably 150 yards from the house

and he said he looked up at the guy and he said and it had stopped raining he said it was muggy it was humid still wet out and he just said what am I doing I'm in bare feet I should go back home what's kind of curious about that we both kind of laughed about was where we grew up, there were a lot of slugs,

and you did not go outside in your bare feet because you were going to step on a slug. I mean, it was just not two ways about it. Just disgusting. You don't want to do that. And he said something just had him come out, walk out, and look up. My uncle had, you know, if you've seen the Sixth Sense with Bruce Wilson, I film,

a kid who has that power. My uncle had that. growing up in the 30s, Great Depression, this was in Philadelphia, and they used to keep, you know, people would come in who were traveling from the south and northern, they'd stay at their house, and the people would just, you know, random people, you know, the time, I guess at that time, you know, you would have visitors and you didn't think anything of it. Pre-air Airbnb, people would just show up and you would have guests at your house. And my uncle would see people who weren't there.

And he would ask, like, who's that right there? Why is that person walking in the house? And I heard one story that at that time in the 40s that you didn't go to funeral homes necessarily. The body would be put in the home. People would come to the home and they would visit it and you would have, I guess, the casket would be, and this is a small row house in Philly.

I mean, that's where I would play as a kid. And in the living room, there was maybe an uncle or some family member who was having their wake at the house. My uncle's a little kid, maybe eight, seven, and he said to my mom that the person who was in the casket was underneath the table curled up smiling and telling him like waving him over. That story just trips me out.

And that those sorts of stories were what my mom, like throughout my uncle's life, he had that sort of, some would say gift, which you don't ask why you have this. It's a gift. It's a gift. But there's a burden to it. And I've certainly, you know, seen things throughout. I mean. Yeah, it's fascinating. I don't know. I've never met someone who had that ability. I've heard of it. And I've talked to people who've had that ability to wear. And I don't know why. I don't know if they're tapped into something else. You know, regarding this encounter when you were young and you were at the camp, it kind of got me thinking. Tell me about the shadow people, because a lot of people experience, I've probably heard more shadow people stories from people than anything else.

And tell me about your experiences with that. Yeah, I was in college. I was in my dorm room. We had been drinking during the day. I wasn't polluted, as my old father-in-law said. But I was just sort of took a nap. late afternoon and i woke up it was dark and i was on the bottom bunk nobody else was in the room three feet from me was a it looked like gumbie all right totally black and shaking

not shaking from cold, incredibly high vibration. And its head was pointing almost like a flame, like the way of flame flickers, like a big flame, but black, nothingness, void of light. And incredibly dark. This time I mean sort of cycle, like, psychically dark. This sounds whatever.

I rubbed my eyes to like, what is that? And it was still there. And I turned my light on and took out my sketchbook and sketched it. Like I was the first thing I did. I took my sketchbook and I sketched it and looked at it and was just sort of breathing heavy,

et cetera, et cetera. And that was it. It was just, it was incredibly dark. Didn't say anything. Didn't, there was nothing more than that. The reason why I asked you about that, and I was curious about that, I got to think another day after we were speaking the first time, and I've often wondered if what, because these Sasquatch encounters come up to where there's no detail, they're just black,

and they seem to absorb the light. Was it like that with the shadow people that you saw? Would you compare? Obviously, the shape is different because you're describing a different shape. But was the color very similar, or is it two separate things? No, I think that's pretty good. I think that's an interesting observation. So, you know, one is the Sasquatch encounter.

It's overcast and you're seeing something dark then. That's one way to look at it. But my room was pitch black or is dark. as I could is draped and there was some some some light from some street lights you know from the from the campus but that was it's a similar darkness I would say but I did not feel with the satsquatch I felt no nothing benevolent if I'm saying that right nothing evil nothing nothing what I saw in my dorm room scared the scared me and And it felt dark and it felt like it was ill intent.

And I don't know what it was. Don't know what it was. Yeah. Yeah, I had a preacher on one time, and he was doing missionary work. And I forget, I forget who there were, I want to say South America somewhere. And he was talking about this, he thought it was a creature, but it was black. And he said it absorbed the light, but it had red eyes, like glowing eyes. And it was just watching him from the tree line.

And then he said it got up and it actually walked through the gate, didn't step over, actually walked through like a ghost. And he said it looked very physical. But one of the things that he said is that it absorbed the light. It was so black, it absorbed the light. And I often wonder, I mean, obviously no one knows what Sasquatch is, but sometimes you get these bizarre accounts of where it sounds like someone's describing, a Sasquatch, you know, the shape, the size, everything seems to add up. But then they start

throwing weird details at you, like it absorbing light. And I've heard that from so many eyewitnesses now. I have no doubt it goes on. But it makes me wonder if, you know, let's say Sasquatch is a traditional animal we haven't caught up with, which I don't buy. But let's just go with that theory. Then what, what's this other thing that people are running into you, you know what I mean? Yeah. I don't know what and yeah, I, I'm caught for a second just between, you know, what, it doesn't mean they're the same thing. And I guess that's what you're saying. And from your experience and what you've heard, well, let me, let me rephrase the question, if I can, is how sometimes,

there's people who talk about the ability of something to just appear or disappear or be visible or not visible. And I don't know of any animal that can just sort of manifest and then disappear. And I've heard that with Sasquatch. What's your sort of thought about that? sort of dimensional travel ability to sort of appear or disappear. You know, dimensional travel is kind of a new thing people are saying. You know, it started with the UFO community, which is very fascinating. When you look at the UFO community, they went from, you know, these are green little aliens in these space vehicles, and they're flying around, and they're kidnapping people, and they're not from our solar system, and they're from,

somewhere, you know, but now you talk to people in the UFO world and they use that word a lot, that they're interdimensional. They're actually from here and they will, and it's amazing when you talk, it's either that or a lot of UFO people will tell you that it's demonic, which is kind of fascinating how it went from, you know, aliens flying off from some of their solar system coming here to where people have changed their opinion. With Sasquatch, you know, it's so hard to really say one way or another because you have these encounters to where they appear to be very animal-like. They appear to be almost like a non-human primate, very territorial, will come after you.

Then you have other accounts where they're just kind of sitting and watching you. And if you listen to the eyewitness, it kind of sounds like they're talking like guerrilla-type behavior, just kind of watching you. But then you'll have these real bizarre accounts. And when I started really putting my ego aside and realizing I don't know as much as I might think and just start listening to people, you'll find weird encounter after weird encounter after weird encounter. And I've heard stuff off the air. I haven't aired yet from several people that don't know each other. They've never heard this before. But I'm hearing it from several different eyewitnesses.

and it makes me wonder sometimes, and the audience is going to like this because they want me to say it's an ape. And I'm being truthful, I don't think it's an ape. I think there's something else going on with Sasquatch. You know, there's this weird government cover-up. Why is there, why would they cover up some non-human primate running around? I don't think they'd even cover up if it was a missing link. I think the government would take great joy in bringing that out, because then you could kiss religion goodbye. you get all their money, you know, that religion is not paying taxes on. So it's hard to say,

I do believe people. I think that there's weird, bizarre things that go on with Sasquatch. Whether it's interdimensional, I don't know. It's bizarre. I think that that might get in the way. I mean, even my asking you that, it sort of gets in the way because that's adding something that I don't know. You know, when I think back on what I saw in Virginia, you know, people mentioned like branches being like, like, it's like a bulldozer coming through. There was not anything like that. This was a very, I'm going to use the word gentle. It was like, maybe that word is appropriate for some encounters.

It was not, it was not allowed, you know, booming through, but it felt like there was something over there, like walking along with us through the tree line. There might have been something there. And it's possible that maybe some are on a spectrum. I used to play Dungeons and Dragons and you would have like, you know, lawful good to chaos,

you know, lawful evil and neutral and sort of on, you know, does this thing, you know, bottom line, does it wish ill intent? Does it have an ill intent? And what, What I saw in my dorm room, yes, that did.

Wasn't going to try to kind of negotiate anything with that or talk with it because it was just, I don't know what it was. That's a whole probably another conversation. But it seems listening to your show and even informally in what I do and work, I work with people in one-on-one and sort of in a counseling sort of therapeutic context and we might be bored in our work for a second. We'll just have to talk about things. And I would say 90% of the people I talk to have some sort of encounter that they don't need religion to sort of explain for them. It is when in the house and they immediately felt something

and wow, it turns out somebody died in the house, those things, those encounters. or heard a story about something or somebody. And so, you know, I don't want to have these encounters. I think they happen. And I appreciate your show and people on your listeners and all of us who are kind of curious about this is that I think it's changing to where we can talk about this in a way that doesn't immediately elicit laughter

or what are you talking about or shame. We should be digging into this stuff and really trying to be more scientific and rigorous about it without just being dismissive. Because every little drop of information is important and valid. Especially when the stories come from kids. Especially when it's adults thinking back on, and I'm not saying that because I was a child.

It's not my point in saying that. But there is something about the brain and the impressions of kids. It's just, they're more open. The filters aren't as rigid. Yeah. Life hasn't crushed them yet. So, you know, I want to ask you, I had another question I want to ask you. But before I get to that, going back to that Sasquatch thing, it's like the dog man.

What is a dog man? I mean, this thing's been seen for thousands of years. And it's gone by different names. But what's bizarre about dog man is it appears to be very physical like an animal, but in the same breath, it seems to show up and then it's gone. And it'll do physical things. I had a lady her dog was attacked by one. And it stood up. And, you know, it's weird because when I think of ghosts, I think of it being not physical.

when you enter in, you know, I'm talking out of my butt because I don't have a ton of experience with that. But regarding, you know, seeing that thing in a room and regarding seeing, having those experiences, you know, like the story with your brother's friend where he was already dead at that point, but he came in and he appeared to be very physical to the point to where you went and told your brother, hey, your buddy's in my room. You know what I mean? it wasn't. And so that part's fascinating. Why do you think that those things happen to you? Because, and don't take offense to this, Stephen, this might be my young religious side talking. But I was always under the impression that you're never going to interact with a ghost, a demon, an entity, whatever label you want to put on it, unless you welcome that into your home. Now I could be wrong on that. was there anything going on in your home growing up that you can think of that might have um and i'm

saying it's your fault hope i'm asking this question no no no no it's a it's a i think it's a great i think it's an important question um nothing i i i would say no other than as a kid i think there's kids who go to bed and they immediately go to sleep they just sound asleep i was not that kid. I think my brain was always active. I've been an artist, so I, I, I tended to be more creative and more visual. Maybe about me, there might be something about me. I don't know about sort of the house. There was nothing sort of, you know, amity-villy about the house. You know, it wasn't a house where you'd walk in and you were like, wow, there's something going on here. No. And I've certainly, I mean, all of us probably have gone someplace that just creeped us out and didn't want to go back.

Didn't feel comfortable. I was talking to my buddy and his house was outside of New Jersey. He was built in like 1700s, like 1709, old, really small ceilings. And he'd have to mow this five-acre lawn and he would have me come over and I would, you know, hang out. and I did not want to hang out in the house. It just not seeing anything. It just was really, it just had, it had absorbed a lot of stuff. I'll put it that way. And, you know, maybe there, I don't know,

I was trying to figure that out with my brother in our conversation is just like, why show up there? And that happens to a lot of people, where they see something, and there's no rhyme or reason. And some people who really don't believe, they they and then this thing happens to them and it and it and it changes their perspective on things.

Yeah, it definitely does. Yeah, and any answer my question, I think most, I think probably more people seeing ghosts than they've seen Bigfoot aliens or any of them, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. It creeps me out, you know, because I have a different opinion as far as what I think ghosts are. But again, I could be wrong. But in your situation, you know, kind of makes me change my opinion a little bit. Why do you think he came to your room? Why do you think he didn't go to your brother's room because it was your brother's friend?

You know what I mean? You know, my brother thinks that I have what my uncle had. And, you know, maybe we all have a little bit different levels of that. And I will tell you, I did not sleep as a kid. Like, I did not sleep easily as a kid. We went to Ford's Theater. And if you've been to Ford's Theater where, you know, Lincoln assassinated, they've got a big poster of the four conspirators who were hung.

And it's probably like six feet by six, you know, eight feet, big blown up portrait of four people hung. So going and seeing that as a fourth grader, and I just had dreams about that for weeks. And I would stay up and just, you know, I don't, you know, That's just a memory of seeing something and, you know, somebody's saying, you know, you have an overactive imagination. And some might say, well, you're just, you're dreaming this or you're made, these things actually

didn't happen. I mean, I have the, the fortune of at least be having that my sibling at who I wasn't in his fan house at the time remembered me asking. And then the next day that happening. And for some people have that experience and they don't have somebody else who can validate or verify it. And I think that, you know, just the experience itself is data point. You know, not everybody, you know, there's no advantage to sort of. Yeah.

No, I get what you're saying. Yeah, no, I get exactly what you're saying. The other question I want to ask you, when these entities are around, you know, like that Gumby-looking thing, which, strange enough, somebody else told me that they saw the shadow man and it appeared to be like Gumby. And I remember I kind of chuckled at first. I was like Gumby. And then when you told me that the other day, I was like, holy crap, I've heard this before. Yeah. Was there, is there ever sort of a smell or anything that when these things, these other entities are around? Do you ever smell anything? Or is it more a visual thing.

No, it's a visual thing. And I, and I, and that was that, that's visual. I do think there is, you know, I, um, you know, saw a ghost in my house. Your, your listeners are going to be like, this guy, here's this guy seeing another ghost. But I'm, whatever, I saw a ghost. Door came. Our front door, something opened. Front door.

middle of the day I'm making lunch and this is like one o'clock in the afternoon the door opens and slam shut but you don't come in our house that way you you have to go through another door and you and you have to push the door up and it's a little bit more subtle and I stepped out to go what that you know I thought maybe somebody had like really rushed in the house and I stood there and I saw look like the light of the shoulder and the side of a dress and it turned and it moved right back out

and it was like maybe two, three feet from me, it turned and sort of moved right back out. Kind of like the way light looks when you pull into your driveway and your lights, somebody pulls into your driveway and the lights kind of shine off the room.

Except it was where a body would have been somebody walking back out. And I stood and I was like, whoa, she saw a ghost. It felt very matter of fact because it was very matter of fact. There was no smell. But what was there was the best way I could describe it is if you're in a room and there's 30 people to party and you're in this small room, everybody's laughing, music, all of this, and okay, time to go. Well, we're not doing that with COVID now, but when we were and we're all,

there's a lot of energy in the room and all of a sudden people leave, and maybe it's you and one other person. Your ears are sort of still sensing a lot of people in the room. There's almost like this, I would describe it as like this popping energy of that the room doesn't clear out to just two people. There's this residual of energy. There was that in the room. When that ghost came in and left,

it felt like the room was more heightened. And my housemate at the time came up the steps because I think she had heard the slam the door. And I said, I just saw a ghost. And she said, oh, okay. Now, she happens to be somebody who believes that. and was like, I'm glad you said something, and maybe we burned sage or she burned sage the next, you know, later in that day.

But I didn't feel any, I didn't smell anything, but more the sense of it. And I really felt like it was not there to, like, do harm. And I, you know, it was just sort of doing ghost business, cruising around. Can I ask you, what do you think that these ghosts are? I mean, do you think it's, because to me, if you die and then you're Roman, like your friend, for example, if that's where he ends up, that kind of blows. I would either, I'd rather not be conscious or be off in paradise or in heaven somewhere. You know what I mean? What do you think that these ghosts are? Do you think they are the people who passed away? And I'm just curious on your take on it. Yeah. I don't, you know, I want to move away. away from like attaching too much sort of our own, wow, that would suck to do X, Y, and Z. Or the stories that, oh, and it's been caught haunting. And, you know, reading the beginning

of a Christmas Carol, the description of, of Jacob Marley, and he's just chained. And it's like this horrible, he's chained to these books of accounting books and screwed thinks that all he said is you're just a bit of undigested potato. He attributes it to his own just like, I'm sick, and he doesn't, and then he recognizes how awful Jacob Marley's existences as a ghost. Now that's one man's interpretation. That's Dickens' interpretation of it. I would like to think of it maybe as something maybe more connected to

energy and maybe that and and with what happened with Robert coming in is like um this gets a little bit more woo-woo but I'll throw it out to you is that okay if we believe that we are just shells you know the body is a shell and there are these inner energies of of our energy is just there and it's constant and forgive any offense to people who have particular religious opinions I'm just trying to like yeah yeah do you know what is it? You don't have to sugar put it. Is this, is that, Wes, you and I met 15 lives ago. And we're just all kind of in this mush of reconnecting in these lives.

And we might, there is an attraction to what is normal. Think about when you see somebody you've never met on a plane and you get into this deep conversation. and you feel like you know the person. I don't think that that always happens. And when it does happen, there's something unique about that sort of interaction. And you're not looking at like, well, this person is this kind of background

or this kind of religion. You just cut through that stuff and you're just very connected in that moment. I think something like that happened where there was a deep connection, and obviously Robert, my brother. And then, you know, in that moment of pure horror that he went through, it's possible that sort of like a cell phone tower,

the reception was much stronger over there. And that's where he went in that moment before he went on somewhere else. We do give off a lot of energy. We do. We give off a lot of energy. We're driving along in our car. Somebody looks over at us in another car. looks at us, what do we do? We look over at them. I mean, I think we're constantly, that's what I think

it is, Wes. It was a long story of saying there, there's just something there to us being, you know, just a different phase of where we are. It was familiar. He had been in the house a million times probably. A million times. Totally familiar with him. And I don't know. And I think the other, what I saw upstairs is just it was this was probably her house I would think it was her and maybe you know maybe it's an anniversary

could have been an important anniversary it could have been and I only saw her that time you know yeah I'm really still thinking about your whole we've all met before because I have been in that situation and I try to be friendly and nice to everyone but you know in the same breath

there's those moments to where you meet someone and maybe it's just me. And you don't like the person. And you can't explain why you don't like that. But they haven't done anything to you. You're immediately turned off by this person. You really don't want to communicate with them. You don't.

And then there is those moments, like you said. I mean, I've sat on a plane and talked to people like we were old friends for, you know, 100 years. And there's no rhyme or reason behind it. Maybe we just clicked. There is that energy you are talking about. You know, when I had Rocky Elmore on the show. he is a retired border patrol agent.

And he was telling me that when they are told they're trained by the U.S. government that when they're ambushing people, when they're in the bushes people and the people coming over are walking down the trails late at night, they're told not to look at them. Look at the ground until they pass. And I thought that was a weird thing for the government to tell them. and I said, Rocky, well, why would they say that? And he said, do you ever look at someone across the room and immediately they look at you? He's like that's part of their training, that they, until they approach the people, they try to look at the ground, especially if they're close. They won't look at the people passing by.

It's weird, man. It's kind of weird that there is that. And I think everyone has had that feeling of being watched or, you know, like you said, you're in your car, someone looks over and you immediately look over to. see who's looking at you, even though, you know, it's out of your vision site. So there's the, there's the feeling of when you feel totally connected to somebody. And what's the opposite is where you feel real, real fear. Real, my life is threatened.

If I go further with that person, I'm doomed. And I had that at missing a bus. late one night in a city and a dude was there who I had seen before driving around in his old beat-up Toyota and he would be casing the bus stop

for people who missed the bus late at night and he kind of waved me over like do you want to ride and it was like I didn't even have to think like maybe this could be you maybe this could be a good ride home I saw something in his eyes that was like there was nothing there. There was no sort of love, no human, nothing.

It was pure dark. I think about that a lot, like how frightening that was. And just to be a little bit crazy, I don't even know if it was human. Yeah. Well, anyone who does that, I would classify as non-human. There you go. Yeah, there's, I mean, there is that weird feeling. Like I said, people do give off different vibes and going back to what Rocky Elmore was telling me.

I mean, even in their training, they're told not to look at people. And you would think if there's nothing to that, then why would the government tell them not to look at people, you know? Let me ask you, what do you think that Sasquatch is? I mean, you had this experience when you were younger. And it obviously sounds like a Sasquatch. probably smelled like one and its behavior matches up pretty close because they do sit sit and watch kids which is weird um what do you think that Sasquatch is if someone were to ask you well i feel very influenced by your program and some things i've heard from other people and i can't shake a

couple of stories that you told that were told to you that you shared is the one of the woman who basically was a foster mom for Sasquatches. And I get what Telitubbies, they wanted to watch telotubbies or something like that? SpongeBob. That was episode 419.

Yeah, SpongeBob. That felt that I'm hearing that that sounded so real and a little bit disappointing about the power of television, but I think that it's just probably something I

I don't think it's evil. I think it's something that's been here a long, long time, and it probably has an incredible record of a lot of history. Looking in the United States, I don't know about sort of beyond globally, but imagine the stories that Sasquatch can tell, in their own language about the, this country. That's what I believe, like that, that, that, that, whether or not we'd ever get

the point of being able to sort of sit down and have some kind of dialogue with them. And, and I know, I, I, I, I, I, I, I sound foolish, knowing what some people's really scary, horrible experiences are and that, that, that, that, that's not possible. You know, if, if, if, if, if my force were cut down or my i saw like animals destroyed and i you know saw mcmansions built up where there used to be this great fishing spot going back generations and there i i think i'd be pissed too um so that that's kind of i i that's my take how would you how would you classify it i don't know i'm person animal animal much closer to humans than then then then we probably want to admit and the the mystical aspect of it the glowing eyes the you know the abilities the superhuman abilities and the

movement of it i mean that's such a phenomenal just that alone the ability to jump and i you know i I was an athlete and it takes a lot of momentum and speed to be able to, as a human, jump 20 feet. It takes a lot of energy. And to be able to do that in one step, one bound and land and all of what we describe they're able to do, that's, that's, I just think that's impressive and why would we want to destroy that and not learn from that. That's sort of my take on it. Yeah, and I appreciate your take on it. You know, I always like hearing what people's opinion is on it.

And, you know, there's a lot of time. I know some people think they'll come on and say they think it's an alien and people will scoff at that. And it's like, well, why are you scoffing? We don't know. We don't know. We don't know what this thing is. We hope it's an animal we haven't caught up with. That's what I want it to be.

Yeah. But, you know, I hope it that's what it is. But I don't know. You know what I mean? And the final thing is I think it could be many. of it might look the same, but there could be different sort of, it could be a family, different families of the same kind of creature. And, yeah, but. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, hopefully we'll know. Yeah, hopefully one day we'll find out.

But I appreciate you coming on, Perry, and sharing the story of Robert's going to stick with me for a while. I mean, that is normally when I hear ghost encounters, usually not happy encounters. that one's fascinating to me, especially since you got up. I mean, you really thought it was Robert and got up and went to your brother's room. That really, I would imagine that is something along with the Sasquatch encounter and some of the other weird things that happened to you. I think that Robert thing will be with you the rest of your life. You know what I mean? For sure.

I mean, it's just what it is. Yeah. Wes, thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you again, Perry. Thanks, Finn. And that's it for tonight. everyone remember if you've had an encounter, shoot me an email.

My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. If you get a chance, check out Sasquatch Chronicles.com, you can become a member and get additional shows. Until next time, everyone.