Sasquatch Chronicles - SC EP:686 Municipal Court Judge Encounters Dogman

Episode Date: September 4, 2020

Shane who is a Municipal Court Judge in Ohio writes "When I was a teenager I was stalked and chased by what I later found out to be a Dog Man. If you are interested in hearing about my encounter, let me know."

What I saw was this thing about six foot tall because its head was about even with the top of the corn. And it just walked out of the corn and it had the head, head of a dog, sort of a muscular-type chest. Its shoulders were rolled forward. Like somebody who had really bad posture, you know. Its shoulders rolled forward, long arms. and it turned its head and it looked at me. And to me, it looked like, and this is the first,

the only frame of reference I had was it looked like the Egyptian god Anubis. It looked like somebody was bent over and had their head in the window of the deer blind. It either heard me or smelt me, and he pulled his head out of the tent and stood straight up. and that shocked me.

They don't make people that big. The way it moved, almost as if it was gliding across the beach. I've never seen anything moved like that in my life. They were screaming at each other in gibberish. It sounded like that. language and they were chumtering away back and forwards, back and forwards, back and forwards. I know what a bear looks like and there is no way on this planet, but what I saw were bears.

What's going on now, sir? That son of a bitch is about 6'4.9, I don't know. Do you see him now, sir? Yes, I'm looking right in. Uh-uh. This is YouTube's Ultimate Mordecai, and you are listening to Sasquatch Chronicles. Welcome to the show, everyone. Thanks for being here tonight. I got a great show planned for you tonight. We're going to be chatting with Shane, who comes to us from Ohio,

and he's actually a municipal court judge, and he had an encounter with a dogman when he was younger. So Shane will be going into that tonight. If you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatchfronicles.com. And if you get a chance to check out Sasquatch Chronicles.com, you can become a member and get additional shows.

Let's jump into it tonight. I want to welcome Shane to the show. Shane, thanks for coming on. Hey, thanks for having me. Big fan of the show. Oh, thanks, man. I appreciate you being here. And I know when you were younger,

you actually had a run in with a dog man. And I was really fascinated when I read your email. If you would, Shane, would you just kind of start from the beginning? Kind of tell us what you were doing and walk us into what happened. Sure. This was back mid-80s, like 85-86. I was a high school kid, and I was a runner, a high school runner. And every year, my town, I live in a city called Eusiris. And we have a big Bratworths festival every year. I probably doesn't rival Wisconsin, but for around here, it does. And so we always had this, you know, at the end of the summer, third weekend in August, we had this 10K. And it brought people from all over, Ohio and, you know, and I was training for that. And it had been really hot. It had been hot about three, four days in a row. And I went out to try to get some training runs in. It was just miserable.

So I knew it was going to be hot. And I said, well, you know, I got to run five miles. That was my training I had to do. And I thought, either I'm going to get up early in the morning and do it for it gets hot or I'm going to do it at night. I'm not a morning person, never have been. And so I thought, well, I'm just going to do it at night. Now, I lived out in the country about four and a half miles out of town. If you're familiar with Ohio for Ohio listeners, I lived right on state route four. State route four runs right through the middle of the state goes north and south and lead you right up to Cedar Point in Lake Erie. One of probably the most traversed, you know, state routes other than the big ones, you know, that run through Columbus. So I lived on a farm. I wouldn't run on state route four because back then, and even still today,

there had a lot of semi-traffic with buzz up and down there. And it's just a two-lane highway. I mean, it's just two lanes. And so, in fact, the funny thing is, as a kid, my mom never let me have a bicycle because she said, look, you'll get killed if you ride that bicycle out on Route 4, and she was probably right. And it was until I was about 10 years old, she would even let me go out. to the mailbox to even get the mail because semis were so, I mean, they zoomed by there so fast,

literally it would suck the mail right out of your hand if you were standing there. So I was, you know, 15, 16 years old now. I always did my training runs down this little country road. It was called Temple Road. It was, you know, a car length and a half wide, I think. And it was just right through the middle of the country. There were about three houses on Temple Road. They were all spread out.

What I would do is I'd leave my house and I'd go south about 100 yards maybe. And then I would turn right onto Temple Road. And I could go two and a half miles down was State Route 98. That would be my turnaround point and I would come back and that'd be my five miles. It was about 9.30 at night when I started off. You know, somebody might think, well, gee, that's unusual. some kids can go running at night in the country. Not at all.

I mean, I was a country kid, wasn't scared of the dark. I mean, we did, I was eight years old playing hide and go seek and dark barns and running through cornfields and stuff like that. So being out at night never, never bothered me at all. I mean, there was, and keep this in mind, you know, north central Ohio, there's no bears, there's no wolves, there's no bobcats. I mean, there's nothing out there that would be dangerous to a kid other than a human being. And back in the 80s, I think we were pretty naive about, you know, people grabbing kids and stuff like that. But I was a 15, 16 year old boy. Nobody was going to just grab me.

I just ran from them. But so to understand the sort of the geography, so I turned right on the Temple Road. And for about a straight mile to my road. to my right was corn. And the corn, you know, middle, early August was about head high. And I'm almost six foot. So this corn is about six foot tall. And so on my right was corn and on my left was beans. And it ran that way all the way down to the first cross road, which is a little road called Flickinger Road. And at that time, as soon as you cross Flickinger Road, which is about a car length wide. There was a woods, and I can't tell you how many acres the woods would have been back

then, but it was pretty thick. Past that, there was a house, and, you know, more cornfields, more bean fields. So on this particular evening, the moon was out, was not a full moon, but it was very, I mean, there was a lot of light. I mean, you could see there was a lot of visibility. And so I got down the stay route 98, and I made my turnaround. I was coming back. And I got back. And I got back, back to where Flickinger road was, which means I was about a mile away from being home. And for some reason, I caught my spider senses, but something just went off like an alarm in my body that told me something wasn't right. And I stopped and I started looking at the woods because I just got this, I just got this feeling that there was something in the woods.

as I was standing there looking at the woods I noticed that across from the woods across that little side road flickinger that there was something in the corn now like I said the corn was about head high and it was moving like a lot of corn was moving so I knew it wasn't a dog

okay and my first gut instinct was there were deer in the corn because we have tons of deer But it was weird. The way the corn moved, there was something that told me it wasn't a deer. And then I thought, well, maybe it's a person or two people. And I was like, I don't know. Who would be out here in the middle of nowhere, you know, messing around?

So I thought, I'm going to get the hell out of here. So I took off. You know, I took off at a pretty brisk pace. And when I took off running, whatever was in the corn, it took off running with me. And it stayed in the corn about three to four rows in. And it kept perfect pace with me. I mean, it didn't fall behind me. It didn't get ahead of me.

It was like pacing me. And that really freaked me out because, for one, the corn's really thick. And I thought, how could it see me? Like, how did it know what pace I was running? because I couldn't see it. I could see the corn moving, but I couldn't see what it was. How did it know how fast I was running in order to keep pace with me? And that really freaked me out.

And I realized then this was no person in the corn. No person could have ran. And I don't know to my listeners out there who've ever tried to run around in a cornfield, no way are you running at night in a cornfield that fast. And then I realized, you know, it can't be a deer. because a deer would have ran away from me. A deer wouldn't have ran with me. It wouldn't have paced me.

And so I got really scared and I stopped because I wanted to see what the hell this thing was. And when I stopped, whatever was in the corn stopped too. I mean, and when I say stopped, I mean, it came to a dead stop and was perfectly still. It wasn't like the corn was moving. Like, you know, it doesn't like it stopped running but was still kind of muscle around in the corn or anything like that. corn didn't move. I mean, it didn't move. And so I stood there staring, thinking something's going to happen here, and nothing did. And so I thought, she's out, I got to, you know, this is, this is creeping me out, and then I got scared. So I got this big adrenaline rush. And when I got

the big adrenaline rush, I just took off as fast as I could. And when I took off, like I was, you know, coming out of the sprinters block, it took off too. And once it kept pace, with me. So I knew coming up, so a half mile, the half mile mark for me to get home was an old farmhouse with some old buildings. And I knew from running up and down that road, I knew that there was a big

tree that set out by the road. I mean, a huge tree. And I thought, I'm going to scale, I'm going to just climb this tree and I'm going to get up high enough where I can either see what's corn or whatever it is comes out of the corn, I'm going to be up high, it's not going to be able to get me. Probably wasn't the best idea because then I'd have been stuck up in the tree. But at the time, that was, you know, to a teenage kid who's panicking, that seemed like the most logical thing to do. So when I got close enough to the tree, I mean, I'm gunning it.

And it, you know, I'm sprinting and it's staying with me. I noticed that somebody had dehorned the tree, which means, all the lower branches they had cut off. So I don't know when that happened, but I'm like, crap, I can't climb this tree. Because this tree was really big. I mean, it was really big around, and they had cut all the smaller limbs off, so I couldn't have got up. So now I'm stuck. So my adrenaline is like, you know, they have that fighter flight and you get that big adrenaline rush.

Well, you only have so much adrenaline, and I just burned it all out. and so I just felt exhausted like like really like you know couldn't hardly breathe because I'd ran so hard so I stopped by the by the farmhouse and the thing in the corn stopped you know it stopped as well so I'm thinking oh my gosh you know what am I going to do so right after the right after the farmhouse is when the bean field picked up and so you know the corn's on my left beans are going to be on my right. And I thought, okay, I got a half mile to go. I don't know what's in the corn. I don't, it's keeping pace with me. I now know I can't outrun it because I'm running as hard as I can and it's keeping up perfect pace with me.

So if it can run perfect pace with me in the corn, then outside the corner on the road, there's no way I can outrun it. So I know I'm about a half mile from home. And for me to get home, I'm going to have to get to Route 4, and I'm going to have to turn left. And if I turn left, I'm going to intersect with whatever's in the corn. Because, you know, for me to get home, I got to cross the busy road to get to my house. I'm going to have to cut left. Now, the corn did not run all the way up to Route 4.

there was a ditch and then there was probably 10 yards maybe maybe not that much of like just unintelligible ground and it had weeds and wildflowers and stuff like that so there was going to be about a about a you know a 10 yard five yard stretch of where this thing if it was if it came out of the corn it was just going to run right into me we'd be you know we'd run right into each other So I thought, man, I can't turn left. I can't go home. And one of my best friends lived to the right. So I could get to Route 4 and I could turn right and I could try to go to his house.

And he lived about 200 yards down. So part of me thought about trying to cut across the bean field, you know, not even make it to Route 4, just cut diagonally across the beanfield to try to get down to where his house was, even though he was still. across the road i'd still have to cross the road but then i realized no if you've ever if you're familiar with beans there's no way i could have cut across the beans because i would have been i wouldn't have been going with the roads that had been cutting across them and if this thing would it came out of the corn to get me i couldn't have ran in the beanfield at a trip and fell and it had me and i thought well at least if i'm on asphalt i could you know i could move i could juke i could twist i could try to, you know, it reminded me

like, you know, if you're playing, remember you're a kid playing tag and even though a kid was faster than you, and they were chasing you, you could always kind of juke or angle and they would miss you. I know that sounds kind of silly, but that was kind of my thought process

in a panic moment, was at least if I'm out on the road, I could do this whole playing tag thing where I'm twisting and jerking, you know, trying to get out of the way. But in the beanfield, I stuck. There's no way. So then I thought, okay, here's the plan. I got to get to Route 4 and I got to get right and sprint to my buddy's house.

But the problem was, you know, and as I explained before, Route 4 is incredibly busy highway with semi-trucks. And, you know, and rich where I go traffic. And with this being the summer, there's all kinds of Lake Erie traffic that's always coming and going. So one of the problems is if, you know, I'm going to try to sprint across the road, but I have to be cognizant of the fact that they're semi-zuming up and down this road. I can just get hit. You know, I get killed by the truck, not whatever's in the field. So I said to myself, look, you got to conserve energy. So I broke into a very light jog because I was figured, look, I'm going to wait until I get about 15 yards or so, 20 yards. 50 yards from Route 4, and when I see that I can get across, I'm going to, you know, dead sprint, don't look back, gun it to my buddy's house. So I had to conserve some energy because I'd blown up, you know, my adrenaline. So I start this, you know, light jog, very light jog, trying to gather myself. And the thing that was in the corn, it started running too. And it kept

pace with me. And as I was getting closer to Route 4 and I started picking up the pace, It's picking out the pace. And it's probably, I'm going to say the furthest away it probably ever was was probably 25 feet maybe away from me. And I say that pretty close, really. Oh, it's close. Yeah, I mean, the road is just not a very wide road where this was. And the reason why I say that is because I think to myself, you know, if I'm shooting a three-pointer in basketball, that's 20 feet. It was about five feet behind that.

So it's that close to me. But I never heard it breathing. I never heard any, I never heard it make a sound. Like it was silent other than the wrestling of the, you know, the corn stalks. So I told myself, when I get to the point where I'm going to, where the corn ends, I'm not going to look back. I said to myself, don't look back because I was scared that if whatever was in there, I might freeze up. I mean, I might see it, and I might hesitate. So I thought, I don't want to look.

I don't want to look. So I'm getting closer, I'm getting closer, and I notice that there's a semi coming from the left, but it's far enough back that I'm going to be able to get across the road. And so as I go, as I start to angle to the right and to try to hit top speed, I couldn't help myself, and I looked back. And when I look back, what I saw was this thing about six foot tall because its head was about even with the top of the corn.

And it just walked out of the corn and six foot tall and it had the head, head of a dog, sort of a muscular type chest. its shoulders were rolled forward like somebody who had really bad posture you know its shoulders roll forward long arms and I could not see its legs below the knees

I never saw its knees so I can't tell you what its knee joints or anything like that look like and it turned its head and it looked at me and to me it looked like

and this is the first the only frame of reference I had was it looked like the Egyptian god Anubis because that having seen that in books or seen that on TV, that's what it looked like. It looked like the Egyptian god Anubis with that head. And it looked to me like it was going to drop to all fours. Like if it was going to chase me, it was going to drop to all fours. And the reason why I said it was because it's posture, the way it had the rolled shoulders and bending forward. It was kind of like, and I don't know if anybody out there who, a football reference,

have you ever seen like a linebacker who's playing defense, how they're in an athletic stance and they're leaning forward on the balls of their feet and their shoulders are kind of forward, you know, that's what it looked like to me, that it was going to drop to all fours. Whether it was or not, I don't know. And so I see that, and I get a good look at it, It was dark, like it had dark fur on it. And I bolt across the road, and I'm convinced that it's right behind me.

You know, I'm convinced that it's chasing me. And I sprint. It's just as hard as I can. And my buddies had an indoor, or I'm sorry, an in-ground pool. And they had a chain-link fence around it. And half the time, the swinging gate to that pool was open, and half the time it wasn't. And I'm sitting there praying, my God, I hope this. gates open because if I have to stop and try to unlash that gate, it's got me. And so as I'm

getting closer, I notice that the gate is closed. And I'm like, oh, no. So as I get close to it, I just say the hell with it. And I jump as high as I can. And I throw my legs up in the air like the side, like the old Falsbury flop. And I tried to put my hand on the top of the fence and the scalloped wires on it just cut me right across my side. I land in a stumbling thing and I just dive right into a swimming pool head first. I blew all my air out and I let my chest like drag across the bottom of the pool. And when I got to the deep part, it was about 10 feet deep, I pinched my nose and I just sat there on the bottom of the pool looking up, fully anticipating that this thing that I saw come out of the corn was going to be standing.

on the edge of the pool and I'm just going to be like I'm totally screwed. And I sat on the bottom of the pool what seemed like minutes, but I'm sure it was probably 30 seconds, if that. And gasping for air, I swim to the top and it's nowhere around. I jump out of the pool. I rip open the sliding glass door on my buddy's patio. And his parents were home at the time. He had no idea I was coming. And this was back in the 80s and he had one of them big,

giant satellite dishes. You remember those things that just look enormous. And here he had dialed into the Playboy channel. And I scared the absolute hell out of him because he thought it was his parents coming in. He yells and I, he looks and he said, what the heck are you doing? You know,

and I kind of tell him what happened. And he was convinced that I saw a deer or I saw a coyote or I saw, I can't remember what all else he said. You know, he saw him like, no, me, no, I did not. That's not what I saw. That's not what I saw.

Whatever was in the corn, it wasn't a deer. And it scared, I mean, it just, it just scared me because I knew how fast that thing was that if it would have came out of the corn, I couldn't have, I couldn't have got away from it. And so for years, I pondered, why didn't it catch me? You know, why didn't it run me down? Why didn't it catch me? Was it just playing with me? Was it toying with me? And then the other thing I wrestled with is, you know, what is it?

You know, what was it that was there? Because I played cards with a group of friends the next night, and I told them the story, but I left out what exactly I saw because I knew they would have just roasted the hell out of me. You know what I mean? They would have, oh, they would have made fun of me like you wouldn't believe. And so even the guys at the table, you know, were playing cards like, well, you know, it could have been this. It could have been that.

And I'm thinking, are thinking, look, dudes, you didn't see what I saw. You know, you didn't see it. So, you know, the interesting thing, Wes, is I never thought that it was a werewolf. You know what I mean? Because you have to understand, in the 80s, there was no internet. There was no frame of reference for me. And to me, the werewolf was Lon Cheney Jr. went a pair of jeans and a torn flannel shirt and a flat face, you know, like a human face with just just hair on it.

So for me, I didn't know what it was. And so, you know, as I grew up and I eventually became a lawyer and I'm now a judge in my hometown. And I started doing some research. And early on, I was thinking, is this like a hellhound or something? Was this something? Because I'd heard of these things. And you remember whole Sherlock Holmes in the end. the Hounds of Baskerville, and you hear some of this stuff about, you know, these black dogs with red eyes chasing carriages.

And therefore, for a long period of time, I thought, well, you know, was it something like that? Was it some sort of demonic dog that was black dog was chasing me? But it didn't fit the profile. It just didn't fit the profile. Why was it standing on two legs? Why did it look, it didn't, like I said, it didn't look like a, dog would look. It looked like the Egyptian Godinubis. That's what it looked like. So then years later, you know, I start hearing about this phenomena that people are seeing called a dog man. And so I

picked up one of Linda Godfried's book, who is the, I guess you would say the godmother of dogman dating back to the Beast of Bray Road, which I knew nothing about. And I was reading this account and this guy says that what he saw looked like the Egyptian god anubis. And I said, that's it. That's what I saw. Whatever this guy saw is the exact same thing that all he saw. And then it was this, I discovered there was this whole phenomena out there about these things called dogmen. And knowing what other people have seen, I'm convinced that's what was stalking me that night.

Yeah, I want to ask you, as far as the body goes, was it more manlike when it stood up and you were kind of watching it? Um, so, okay. The arms, and I'll keep in mind, I didn't get, I mean, I didn't, I didn't get a chance to sit there and study it, but I got a really good look at it. The arms were sort of thin. You know what I mean? It did not have like a big muscular set of arms. The arms were more spindly, kind of long, you know what I mean? but his chest was big.

And I'll give you an example. This is going to sound really silly to you. But I had a minister dachshund. And he had short little stubby legs, but he had an incredibly muscular chest. His chest stuck out. And he had this just really strong chest. That's what it reminded me of. It had a big chest, but skinny.

arms and sort of big rolled shoulders is what it looked like. It was almost like the arms were not proportionate with the torso. It didn't look like it had these big powerful arms. It just didn't quite look like that to me. Now, maybe it was the angle I was at or maybe, you know, what's it being nighttime, but I got a good look at it. And to me, it looked more very powerful torso and long arms. Yeah, the other thing I want to ask you about that behavior, you know, you hear that behavior a lot with Sasquatch.

A lot of times people will say, you know, when I stopped, it stopped, when I ran, it ran, when I walked, it walked. And it's very similar to how you're describing this encounter with this dog man. So you see that same type of behavior, which is strange. I mean, you have two different cryptids in the exact same type behavior. What do you make of that behavior? Do you think it was just curious or do you think it had other intentions? Well, that's a question that I pondered for years. And then one time I was on an airplane and I was sat next to this guy and I was by myself and he was by himself.

And he had a, I noticed he was reading a, and I don't know, I can't remember. for life me if it was a big foot book or had something to do with cryptids and so i struck up a conversation with him and i told him this i told him my story and he said wow man you're you're really lucky that you didn't turn left and go towards your house and i said yeah i know because you know i would intersect with he says no no no that's not what i'm talking about he had told me that he had been he had hunted wolves up in minnesota or calgary alberta or someplace and he said You know, I think this thing was driving you towards the pack. And then what he said was wolves will send out like a scout.

And the scout will sort of push the prey towards the pack. And that wolves are very reluctant to attack something as big as it one on one because for fear that we get hurt. because if a wolf would get hurt and not be able to run with the pack, the pack's not going to stick around and wait for it. It would basically be left to die because it couldn't run with the pack. It couldn't hunt. It couldn't feed itself. And so his theory was that there were more than one of these things,

and this thing's purpose was to drive me into a kill zone. That really kind of freaked me out because I thought, okay, that makes sense. But at the same time, you know, I've talked to some other people and they're like, I don't know, you know, that that would, you know, if there were four, five, six, seven of these things, I mean, you know, they would have to eat. And my gosh, how many calories would these things need to consume and wouldn't people notice things disappearing and, you know, things like that. So to this day, I'm not sure whether it was just curious of me, that it was just toying with me, whether it was trying to. to drive me because there's one thing that's perfectly clear it could have caught me anytime it wanted to it could have caught me time it wanted to and it was bigger than me you know what i mean it was it probably no man i couldn't really put a weight on it but i was at that time i was probably 150 pounds and it was it was substantially bigger than me if it would have attacked me i couldn't have fought it off i mean imagine this imagine trying to get it imagine if you got attacked by a 70

pound pit bull could you fight it off Yeah, you're in big trouble if a 70-pound pit bull wants to fight. But to answer your question, no, I don't think I can fight it off. Yeah, if you can't fight off a 70-pound pit bull, you're not fighting off a six-foot-tall, 200-pound thing. I'm convinced it could have killed me. I don't think there was, if it wanted to, that I could have gotten away from it in a physical fight. I don't think there's any way. Yeah, I find it very odd, though.

You know, you have two different, let's say, let's just go with the theory that Sasquatch is an ape, which I don't believe. And let's go with the theory. A dog man is a dog, which I don't believe. It's very compelling to me that they have that exact same behavior. Exactly what you described, I've heard a thousand times. And that's kind of concerned. Yeah, the thing about it is, it's not a misidentification.

I didn't see a Sasquatch and misidentified as having the head of Anubis. You know what I mean? Like, I got a really good look at the head. I know what I saw. I didn't see a Sasquot. No, no, and that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying you hear with the dog man to you, do you hear the same type of behavior? And for me, that's kind of a little bizarre because you would think they're two different entities.

And yet they're portraying the same type of or displaying the same type of behavior. I have no doubt what you saw. I've talked to a lot of people have run into that thing. Well, what do you think it is, Shane? I mean, after all these years and kind of looking back on. it. What do you think that thing is? So here's the thing. So, you know, I like to think I'm somewhat of an educated guy. You know, I went to law school, obviously, but that doesn't make me a biologist. But, you know, I've done some study and I think, okay, is this a biological

creature? All right. If it's a biological creature, what, and it's canine, it has a, if it has canine tendencies. Why would it stand on two legs? You know, what's it doing on two legs? Dogs don't stand on two legs. You know, wolves don't stand on two legs. But then again, I think, well, you know what, when it was pacing me in the corn, it was probably on all fours. It was probably run on all fours. And then when it came out of the corn, I think it probably stood up on its, on, you know, on two legs to get a better vantage point of me, I think. And then if it was, would have laid chase to me. I think it probably would have dropped down on all fours. And I say that just based upon its physical stature. So I tend to believe that it's a, I tend to believe it's a physical

animal of some sort. Now, I'm part of a podcast called From the Shadows podcast. I started with a good friend of mine. And one of the reasons why I started it was because of my experience and I wanted to give a form for other people to discuss their encounters. And my partner in that, he doesn't believe that dog men are physical creatures. He thinks that there is a supernatural paranormal component to them. He and I both agree, though, we don't believe that it's a human that metamorphoses into a wolf. I just, that's just something I don't believe. I think that from a biological standpoint, you know, the body changed.

bone structure and all that kind of I just don't think in the realm of possibilities that that's possible so I tend to think it's a biological creature he tends to think that it is a supernatural creature the thing is what's what's its origin you know what I mean what's its origin I mean animals evolve we know that you know we know animals evolve but what is this thing's origin you know has this thing been around for thousands of years or is this something that's just evolved over the last 50 years? You know what I mean? I don't, I just don't know.

No, I hear you. Yeah, it's fascinating when you really look. It's been around for thousands of years. As you and I were talking to the other than I was telling you the Samarians wrote about it. The Egyptians stole it and came up with the new bus. But prior to the Egyptians, the Samarians were talking about it. And when you start talking Samarians, whether you believe there's a flood or not, I think most science, you know, on an outside of religion, I think most scientists are

there was a flood. Even the Samarians were talking about this. So we're talking pre-flood. The Samarians were talking about this being running around. And it's a hard concept, I think, especially for me, you know, when you think of something supernatural or you think of something paranormal, like a ghost, you can't touch a ghost. I mean, I guess you can, but it's not, you know, it's not right there physical in front of you.

I will say everyone I've ever talked to that has run into the dogmen, they'll say two things. One, it was very physical, was not an apparition. And they describe it very closely to how you described it. I mean, and I told you that's, I'm very convinced it's out there running around because I've talked to so many people who have seen it. And they don't know each other. And they're describing the same features from one to the next. But going off that point, you know, I kind of think things can be physical and paranormal or supernatural. You know, if you want to go with religion, you know,

Abraham sat down and ate with three angels. You know what I mean? They sat there and had a meal. And that's very physical. That's, even though it's supernatural, it's very physical. And that's if you believe in the religion and all the other stuff. But what I'm saying is I really, I think that something can be very physical and yet not natural. Well, there's certain, I mean, there's obviously certain characteristics about it that you think about Native Americans.

and Native Americans talked about spirit animals, and they talked about, you know, these things being able to materialize in the form of wolves or coyotes and things like that. You know what I mean? And so I've always believed that with any folklore, there's always some element of truth to folklore. You know, maybe as the stories get passed down, you know, the stories change or it becomes sensationalized or something like that.

But there's always something, there's always some rooted facts with folklore. You know, like I said, the Indians talk about, you know, these things materializing. So maybe that's dog man. Dogman is a, is whatever it is, it can materialize into a physical form, just like Native Americans believe that, you know, different, you know, different creatures could, you know, materialize out of thin air and stuff like that. But, you know, the interesting thing is about them is, what are they eating? You know, in Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, there's an abundance of wildlife deer and stuff like that.

But I think what we talk about, these things have been spotted all over the world. So what are these things eating? You know, and you think about it is, you know, David Pilates and, you know, missing 411, you know, there's a lot of people that go missing in national parks every year and they find nothing of them they don't find a backpack that's been torn apart anything like that i mean people go missing and they're never seen of or heard of again i mean these things could be picking people off they could be i i just don't know yeah and i think you brought up a good point there you know what is its origin you know what it what are these things even with saskatch to be honest with the i mean it's like where does that correct it

having a great ape of the size of Sasquatch running around in North America makes no sense. Makes zero sense to me. And the other thing is there's absolutely nothing in the fossil record that would support such a thing. Yeah, but it really makes you wonder why people are seeing this stuff today. Why are we seeing all these weird things out running around? Why are people running into them? And people can scoff and laugh all they want. People are very consistent on what they saw.

Very consistent. You think about me. I didn't tell a bunch of people this story until I didn't tell this story in its entirety until it became socially acceptable to tell this story. I mean, all of us deep down do not want to be made fun of and ridiculed. Nobody wants to be told their nuts or a liar, you know what I mean, or made a fool. and when my buddy and I decided to start from the Shows podcast, and part of it was because, you know, I'm turning on the TV and I'm seeing monsters and mystery.

I'm seeing terror in the woods. I'm seeing ghost hunters. And on the travel channel, I mean, you can't turn on the TV without seeing something about Bigfoot. You know, so, yeah, people are seeing these things. They're seeing them a lot. So you can be the doubting Thomas. if you want, but you would have to say, gee, there's been thousands of sightings, literally thousands of sightings, and everybody's making this up. Or there's some weird mass hysteria.

And I just don't believe that. I know what I saw, and I believe people when they say what they've seen, what they've seen. I don't, look, I'm sure there's people out there that try to seek attention and say they saw something. But there's just too much, too many eyewitnesses to say, hey, There's nothing out there. Yeah, no, and I agree 100%. Can I ask you, is you're coming up to the cornfield and your spidey sense that started going off, I think is how you put it. Do you think there's something to that with in relation to what this thing actually is? You know, because I don't know that you would have done that.

Let's say if there was, I know you have cougars out there, but if there was a cougar sitting in that cornfield, probably would never even seen it, even. No. Oh, yeah. I mean, I may have been, look, I've been hiking in the woods. before and a cougar could have been within 10 feet of me and I've not even known it. So, yeah, I think that it harkens me back to if there's something paranormal about this. You know, and this is a little off track, but I'd use it for analogy, for about 15 years straight,

I woke up every night at 3 a.m. Not 258, not 3.10, 3 a.m. Now, sometimes it might have been 302 or 303 probably because my clock was set faster or whatever. But I always woke up and I couldn't figure out why. And then I was doing research one time on it because it was driving me nuts. And I was thinking I had some sort of sleep disorder. And I come across this thing that says the witching hour is 3 a.m. It's not midnight. It's 3 a.m.

And that at 3 a.m., at 3 a.m., the veil between our world and the supernatural world is at its thinnest. And people that are attuned to the supernatural get jolted awake because they feel the energy that's electricity. You know, like there's like a, like a, you know, first rule of thermodynamics that Einstein came up with is energy cannot be created, nor can it be destroyed. It just takes different forms. And so, you know, I was getting jolted awake and I don't know if it's true or not. But one of the explanation is, is I was sensing my body was attuned to this energy that when the veil between our world and the supernatural world is at its thinnest, I was getting bummed. My body was attuned to that energy. So you take me to being on the road

and my spider sense, as I say, went off. Maybe that is my body just attuned to the supernatural, that the energy that this thing gives off, somehow my body. was attuned to that, could sense that energy. I mean, it's an explanation. Yeah, no, I hear you. And I appreciate the explanation. Did you get a sense that was evil? You know, I can't say that I can't say that I thought it was evil

because I didn't really have time to think about that. You know what I mean? Because, you know, the whole time it's in the corn, there's still this tremendous. minute some amount of wonder about what the hell is it what is in the corn and so you know i i can't say that i got this impending doom that this thing was this demonic force that was you know i i can't say that i just part of it is it's just terrified i mean it's easy for me to tell the story now you know what i mean but you have to put yourself in a teenager shoes literally out in the middle

the country at night and you're being stalked and you know you don't have a cell phone because they didn't exist and there's no way you can get away from this thing. Yeah, you're on your own. You're on your own.

And I didn't have a gun or a knife and it probably wouldn't have done me any good if I did. But just sheer tear. I mean, just sheer unbridled tear is the only thing I can best describe it. just and you like I hyperventilate you know part of the story is you know I hyperventilated a little bit when when I realized when I ran really hard to the farmhouse and saw that it skin the tree down I mean I'm practically hyperventilated like because I was so scared and my heart was being so fast and I had ran so hard to get to the tree thinking I'm going to be able to you know climb up a few limbs and scale my way up this tree so yeah. I mean, I don't know what other people's accounts are.

I mean, I think I've heard some people describe it as they thought they were looking, you know, at pure evil. But I can't. I can't go on a limb and say that. Yeah. No, and I appreciate, you know, just being forthcoming on it. It's, uh, it really is a fascinating account. You know, one of the things, Shane, uh, that I've come to the conclusion over the years. I don't know if you've ever dealt with, you know, ever been into a haunted house or ever dealt with.

I have experienced that one time. I wasn't directly, I didn't live there, but I did experience that one time. And I can tell you that there's a weird vibe, there's a weird presence in the air that even though you can't see anything, it's just odd. I don't know if you understand what I'm saying,

but it's just odd when you walk in. You feel like you're being watched. You have this really weird tingling, like spidey senses going off. Something's not right here, but you can't put your finger on it. And the bizarre part is, you know, after you encounter a Sasquatch, a lot of people, including myself, you can almost kind of feel when they're around. This sounds really bizarre.

I don't have superpowers, but I've been in situations where my spidey senses were just going off. I hadn't seen anything yet, but I wanted, you know, I wanted to leave. And it didn't hit me until later that I thought those two feelings of being in a home that has that poltergeist presence. and this feeling of Sasquatch being around, they're very similar. It's a very similar feeling. All the same spidey senses go off. Right. And I've often wondered if there's some correlation with that.

You know, and with Dogman, I don't know what Dogman is, but people are definitely running into them. But it's weird throughout your life, you kind of look back at certain things and go, you know, I kind of feel the same way here as I do here. And they're very unique feelings. It's something that you don't feel every day. Well, it is, and that's where kind of, you know, we've talked about in our podcast, you know, I referenced, you know, the first rule of thermodynamics is that, you know, everything has energy. And is our bodies are our bodies sort of tuned to feeling or sensing that kind of energy?

You know what I mean? So you think about it, you know, people do ghost hunting. and stuff like that. And I'll probably say this wrong. So correct me. EVPs or whatever they say those, you know, those things are. And what are those things? I mean, what are they really detecting?

They're detecting energy, right? That's what I assume that's what detecting is energy. And maybe, you know, our bodies are tuned to this sort of energy that is being given off by ghosts, pulp, geist, bigfoot, dog man, that, you know, we're sensing this, you know, we have this third eye. or a six sense that is picking up this energy, and it's a self-preservation thing that says, hey, listen, this is something you need to be caused right. You need to be aware of.

Maybe you need to flee. You need to get out of here. Yeah, you could be right on that. You definitely could be right on that. I really respect the fact that you're a judge and everything, and that you would come forward and share this. I told you I had four judges on the show, but no one actually ever said, you know,

came out and said that there were a judge, and I didn't fail to mention. But it is good. It is somebody of your position would mention that. You know, I've had some pretty high up doctors, famous doctors on the show where if you're dying over a certain disease, you're going to go to that doctor. They've come on the show and talked about, you know, Bigfoot and, you know, different things that have happened to them throughout their life. So it kind of normalizes it. You know what I mean?

Right. And I don't think that, you know, me being a judge doesn't give me any more credibility than the next person. but what it does say is that someone in my position would have the courage to say, hey, listen, you know, I'm an elected official, but I'm willing to come out and tell people this is what I experienced. And, you know, that I wouldn't do this if I really didn't experience it. You know what I mean? Because I'm sure they're going to see, oh, gee, our judges sum up. You know what I mean?

And my brother, who's a judge, even saying, is me, and you sure you want to tell the story to people? You sure you want people to think you're a kook? And I told him, I said, no, I think it's important because I want to try to encourage other people who are probably too nervous, too scared, too shy, or worried about being ridiculed to tell their encounters. I want them to know that, hey, listen, I'm willing to do it. You can come out and do it. And if we're ever really going to figure these things out, we need more people to come forward and give their encounters and tell their stories so that we can try to take all these stories. and try to put it together like a giant jigsaw puzzle and hopefully one day come up with an answer as to what Sasquatch or Dogman or some of these other cryptage really are.

I mean, it'd be really cool if we could. Yeah, well, there's no doubt in my mind. I think one day we'll truly find out what these things are. But in the meantime, it is nice to have people come forward and we can kind of get a small picture of what these things are and, you know, their behavior and different things like that. And it does start with people coming forward, just like yourself, Shane. I really appreciate you having me on your show. Yeah.

I'm a fan. I really appreciate you coming on and sharing it. Tell us again the name of your podcast and give us a kind of a quick little rundown of what your podcast is about. So the name of the podcast is from the Shadow's podcast. So that's from the Shadow's podcast. And it was started by me and a friend by the name of Shane Grove. And we have a producer, Jason, Lewis and we have some other members on there.

They're good people. And we started it just because of this. You know, my experience and my buddy had some experiences, different type of experiences when he was a kid. And we thought, you know what? Let's try to find other people out there and hear their stories. And we sort of picked the name from the shadows because, you know, these sort of things are in the shadows and we want to bring these topics, you know, into the light and give people

form by which they can tell them. So anybody out there that would, you know, like to know more, here's some of our guests. We've had some pretty cool guests on. And we're going to have Linda Godfried on here. The, you know, the godmother of dogmen is going to be coming on in a week. You know, check us out. We're on YouTube. We're on Spotify. You know, we try to have a good time with it, you know, it's and at the same time we like to get down to, you know, people's stories. So. Yeah, I'll definitely check it out from the Shadows podcast. And before I let you go, is there one person you've had on the show or is there one show that really sticks out to you? You know, we had Ken Gerhardt on who is, you know, one of the, you know, probably who's who with cryptids.

And he told us some really good stories. So, you know, he was a really fun, fun guest. So go and check out, you know, check us out. And there's some, you know, we talk UFOs. We talk ghosts. We talk Bigfoot. We talk dog men. You know, we talk conspiracy theories, missing persons.

We try to, you know, try to hit a lot of different topic areas because we know there's a lot of different listeners out there that have their own genres of things they want to listen to. But, you know, Wes, I really appreciate you having on. If you'd ever want to come on our podcast sometime, we'd love to have you. We know you've got some great stories. So I'm sure our listeners would love to hear from you. Yeah, I'd love to come. come on. Thank you so much for the invitation. And thank you so much for taking the time to come on. Thank you. Have a great day. And that's it for tonight. Everyone, remember, if you've had an encounter,

shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. If you get a chance to check out Sasquatch Chronicles.com, you can become a member and get additional shows. Until next time, everyone.