Sasquatch Chronicles - SC EP:702 The Unnatural Fear

Episode Date: October 26, 2020

Tonight I will be speaking to two eyewitnesses. Jacob writes "I'm 32 years old Oregon woodland firefighter. I have hiked around a lot of woods. I am also a skeptic, I'm not sure what exactly it was that I saw or experienced. I will also be speaking to Roland. Roland writes "I live on Northern Ute tribe here in Utah. I have seen a lot of things being an outfitter and guide here for about 20 years I have had run-ins with Bigfoot and we did see one that we almost shot But I didn't realize what it was until now. I have seen some strange things, I grew up 2 miles from Skin Walker Ranch"

It looked like somebody was bent over and had their head in the window of the deer blind. It either heard me or smelt me, and he pulled his head out of the tent and stood straight up. That shocked me. They don't make people that big. The way it moved, almost as if it was gliding across the beach. I've never seen anything move like that in the beach. life. What was left?

What will you go on? They were screaming at each other in gibberish. It sounded like a language and they were chuntering away back and forwards, back and forward, back and forward. I know what a bear looks like and there is no way on this planet but what I saw were bears. Magin, what are you reporting? What's going on now, sir? That son of a bitch is about 60 foot nine, I don't know.

Do you see him now, sir? Yes, I'm looking right here. Uh-uh. is Greg Andrews from Orlando, Florida, and you're listening to Sasquatch Chronicles. Welcome to the show, everyone. Thanks for being here tonight. Got a great show plan for you tonight. We're going to be chatting with Jacob. And Jacob is a woodland firefighter and a tough job. Very, very tough job. He's going to, he has two encounters he's going to be sharing with us tonight. He saw the creature the first time with his father, and for the longest time, they didn't know what it was.

We're also going to be chatting with Roland, and Roland comes to us from Utah. He's from the Ute Tribe, and Roland's a fascinating guy. Him and I were talking, and he said, you know, I live two miles from Skinwalker Ranch. I've seen all kinds of weird things. So we'll be chatting about that tonight. Roland spent 20 years of his life as an outfitter and as a guide, and he's seen many weird things out there in the woods. And he's a real fascinating guy to chat with, because when he was a young man,

he would pass off these encounters as some weird bear that they ran into. It wasn't until later in life that Roland realized what he was running into. If you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. Let's jump into it. I want to welcome Jacob to the show. Jacob, thanks for coming on. Thank you for having me.

It's an honor. No, no, the honor is mine. Thank you again for being here. and I know you're a woodland firefighter, very, very tough job. God bless you for doing it. And I know you've had two encounters. If you would, let's talk about the very first encounter. Kind of tell us what you were doing.

And if you would, just kind of walk us into what happened. Oh, well, long time ago, I was in eighth grade, middle school. We ended up moving to Leadville, Colorado. And I was raised there for most of my life. if you don't know anything about it, it's the highest incorporated city in the United States. And that being said, there's a lot of wilderness and a lot of mountains,

and it's just gorgeous if we've never been there, you've seen it. And, well, around the town, it's a lot of mines and stuff like that. And a lot of the Hispanic immigrants that came up from Mexico to go work the mines, they brought a lot of stories and lore and, you know, and legends and stuff with them.

And one of them was this thing called the Chupacabra. Well, it's just this Being that is dog-like that runs around bipedal, extremely fast, elusive, and they drink the blood from their prey. Well, you know, me just being a kid and being raised around this kind of stuff, it was just like a legend or lore or something, you know. And, you know, we've heard of encounters of Sasquatch around the area and pretty scary stuff for some of the guys around there. My dad was one of them. So it was one morning during the fall. It was around October.

we get the elk that come out into the back because we're living 20 minutes outside Leadbill, and it's right in between Twin Lakes area. It's just gorgeous out there. It goes into this flat land and then up into the rolling hills and then goes up into the Rocky Mountain Range

at the base of Mount Albert. It's just gorgeous. And the elk go there every morning during the fall, and it's an easy at 60-heard elk. I mean, it's a hunter's paradise. And that's just right out of our back door. We see it every morning. Well, one morning I was sitting there with my dad and we were having some coffee and just kind of, you know, enjoying some friendly conversation, you know, just bonding.

And well, we were looking out and just kind of relishing the beauty of the elk being out there. And suddenly, you know, just after a few minutes of kind of watching them, something just went crazy. They took off. Like, they stampeded out of there. I've never seen a herd of elk aside from National Geographic of them move this fast. and at least without a known predator being seen. I didn't see anything nearby. My dad didn't see anything at all.

Well, him being a curious guy he is and trying to figure out what's going on, he got his binoculars out, and he started looking around the flat area and up into the hills trying to see if he could see anything. And he passed into me. He's like, well, I don't see anything here. Why don't you look?

So I was looking around and looking around. I couldn't see anything. So after a few minutes of this, I gave it back, and I was just, I was giving up. Maybe they just got spooked by a loud noise. Maybe somebody cranked a shot or, and then next thing I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,

I see something coming over the top of the hill. I was like, what? And he's like, he started pointing. And in the binoculars he's looking, he just kind of stopped and froze. He's like, you got to look at this. And so he handed me the binoculars. I grab them and I'm looking straight out over.

It was, I think we were looking west. So it would have been a little northwest. And just up over it. in these hills, these foothills was this figure. And it was just booking it towards the area where these elk were. Like, I couldn't believe it. I never seen anything go so fast. At first I thought it could have been a dirt bike.

But no, it was a brownish figure with black patches on its chest. I couldn't make out any facial features because this thing was just going so fast. And ended up stopping for a few seconds. I'm watching this with my jaw drop. My stomach instantly sank. I mean, I felt like the hair on the back of my neck was raising, so there was something wrong. Like survival instinct just went off.

Like, this isn't good. My dad felt the same way. You know, he's just like, what are you seeing? What are you saying? And I'm trying to just finish watching this. And it stopped after it stopped for a few seconds. It ran straight up in the direction where the elk went, and it disappeared.

I haven't seen it since. I mean, I've heard stories from the game warden in the area finding a body of this thing, or, you know, there's a guy at the local gun show that happened about a couple months later because we had no idea what the heck it was, man. Me and my dad just talked about it, talked about it, and everybody thought we were crazy. And it was like, dude, we just, we saw this thing, it was flying. I mean, it was bipedal, but it wasn't human. We have no idea. and the guy we told him over at this local gun show because he, you know, taxidermists have a lot of fun

with some of these animals, you know what I mean? And these guys get bored, and they come up with some crazy creations. And this guy had one of what he called the chupacabra. And I looked at it and it was like, well, you know, it was just odd looking like a mix of a coyote and a rabbit that he did. But I asked him about it and he told me what it was. And, you know, kind of explained what the chupacra was.

And I was like, Dad, Dad, that's what we saw. And he's like, what? I'm like, that had to been it. You know what I mean? It wasn't a Sasquatch. I know it's the Sasquatch Chronicles, but you know what I? It's... Yeah, I'm really curious.

How big do you think it was? And did you say it was running on two legs? Yeah, I was running on two legs. This thing could have easily been, we're talking, seven and a half, eight foot tall. I mean, it could have been, you know, even a little taller than that because it was out in the distance. And to be able to see it run instead. standing up, you know, there's a lot of grass and sagebrush that grow around there, you know, so it was just stand over it like it was blades of grass.

Yeah, sounds big. What made you think it was a chupacabra? It's just from lore, the way they talked about it, it moved. It just, the distinction of seen it on its two legs was that they were dog-like legs, how they bend down and they triangle back, you know. how they bend back, how ours bend out, and there's bend in, these were bent in. Like, this thing was hitting speeds. No human could hit.

I can't explain it. I'm a skeptic. I have no idea what any of this stuff was because my dad talked about stuff for years, me growing up. You know what I mean? I thought my dad was a kook. I really did. I thought he was crazy. You know, he told me about his encounter with Sasquatch and then UFO encounters and stuff,

especially up in Leadbill, you know, because he's bent, 50 years up there in the mountains. And I just thought he was crazy. And then that one experience started getting me to start questioning things. And then kind of being more open to what possibly it could have been. And the way this guy explained it is just unreal. Yeah. Now it kind of makes sense as you're describing the legs.

Do you think that you ran into a dog man? Because I don't think the chupacabra gets that big. But, you know, I mean, what do I know? Right. And I've always known it as small. And I honestly haven't really heard much of the dog. dog man until I started listening to your show and hearing people having these other experiences with a dog-like figure. And I was like, well, maybe it wasn't a chupacra. Maybe it was, maybe it's

something else, you know what I mean? Like I said, I can't explain. I don't know for sure. All I know is that it made me feel like I was in danger and it was far away. And if there's something that far can have an impact on a human being that far away with, you know, the feeling of unknowing and straight fear. Like, I've faced multiple encounters of wild, you know, wild animals doing my job, you know, just going out fighting fires. You run into rattlesnakes. You run into bears.

You run into mountain lions, you know, and it gets you on edge and, you know, you're in danger. But, I mean, I never felt that way before about anything like that. And hearing about, you know, it being possibly a dog man, something different than what I've always maybe known it to be is even scarier because it's like, okay, well, there's this legend and more. But now we have this dog man figure around too. So it's like it makes me wonder how many multiple things are out there that we don't know about or if we do, we have very little knowledge of. Yeah, with a lot of dogman reports, eyewitnesses will say the legs look like a dog's leg. you know, if your dog stood up, how the shape of the leg. Not always, though.

There's other reports of them looking very human-like, but it makes me wonder if what you ran into was a dog man. The other thing a lot of eyewitnesses will say is when they're running, they're running at such a speed, it's almost unnatural. Yeah, it was not, it wasn't of anything that was, at least, if it was born here or created here or whatever or, you know, then this thing. is, I don't know. I don't know.

I'm kind of a loss for words, to be honest with you. It's hearing about the dog, man, and then this thing being bipedal, running at the speeds that it did, being totally unnatural, it makes you wonder. You know, when listening to your show, and there's a lot of other interviews with people

that had talked about where they've had other experience with, like, lights or other, like, kind of phenomenon, that have happened around these different sightings of things. You know, it makes me wonder because there's a lot of talk of UFO stuff that happens around there. They're unidentified flying. I'm not saying they're aliens, but I'm saying that there's something odd with the correlation of this thing, this dog man figure and, you know, and these other things going on, this other phenomenon. Yeah, it's a fascinating account, Jacob.

You know, with the dog man, everyone I've ever talked to regarding the dog man, they always say it's very physical. I've talked to people who, you know, it was killing their animals. It was doing very physical things. And then you hear weird reports of people emptying full clips into it and it doesn't seem to affect it. And, you know, with the dog man, if it's an entity, why is it chasing the elk? You know what I mean? Right. It's a very strange detail.

Sorry. It's a food source. If they're not from here, it's something that's unnatural, then why is it after something that is totally natural? Why is it feeding off of these resources? You know what I mean? If it eats what we're eating, then it means it's also ingesting water.

Water has only really been found right now on just earth itself, just actual big giant physical bodies of water. They haven't really found much yet except for frozen. stuff out in space. It has to be from here. There's over 40% of our national forests and stuff that are still wild that no man has ever touched. Not even a wild-man firefighter or smoke jumper. You know what I mean? So what kind of uncharted territory haven't we walked through where these things could be? Even Sasquatch, Dogman, any of this stuff, you know, it's there. People are seeing it. It's already here. It's been here. We've heard accounts for hundreds of years.

if not further than that thousands, if you look at the Native American tribes. You know, it's... Yeah, you could be right. It could be from here. I mean, there is a ton of untouched land, and you're right, the legends go back for many, many years. I'm really curious on your second encounter. I know you were with your kids. If you would... Would you tell us what happened?

Okay. So this was a few months back around Morrell mushroom seasons, since you're... Since you're in the Pacific North, you kind of know a little bit about that. Yeah, I love morel season. So we were going out looking for morels and trying to find some good spots. Well, there is this area. It's on the other side of Dixie Pass, just over outside of Prairie City. And we were headed up there because there was an old unit that we went and worked on.

We put in a fire line for a scribe burn. And so while we were up there, dig in, I ended up finding a bunch of morels, like a nice hot spot. So I was like, I'm bringing the kids, you know. So I packed them up, put him inside of the, you know, the suburban. And, you know, a suburban not being four-wheel drive. I decided to try to attempt this four-wheel drive road to go up there. And I did really good. It got about halfway and we pulled out into this little grassy patch. Well, we were still probably about 50 yards away from where we needed to be, you know, 50, maybe 100 yards. So we were, we were walking, high. and, you know, kids got their burlip sacks and I got my stuff. And the only thing I'm carrying on me at this point, you know, because I trust myself. I know what to do in situations with wild animals in case you run up on anything, because you never know, it's their home too. You know, so I bring myself a knife, a good-sized knife with me. And that's all I bring.

I don't bring firearms and nothing, you know, that crazy. But, so we get about easily probably what, you know, we parked about 100 yards. So we were about 50 yards away, 50 to about. 45 yards away from the fire line. And then out of nowhere, I heard this loud, just it sounded low and high at the same time, like a hoot and screech hauler. You know, I can't mimic the sound.

But the only one I've ever been able to hear was this account, this Sasquatch or unknown noise account that came out of the woods on YouTube. And that was the closest thing. And it chilled me to the bone because it sounded exactly about what I heard. It was like a high octave, low octave, hoop holler. And then seconds right after that sounded like a massive tree just hit the ground and thump. And it was scary because, you know, I dropped trees for a living. That's what we do on fire. You know, we go when we fall trees,

disease trees, you know, do it for burns, anything else, even for firewood, for goodness sake. and I've never, it just cleanly hit the ground. There was no, there were no cracks, there was no stress at all that you could hear it going through until I hit the ground. It just straight hit the ground. When it did, that's when the kids, after they heard that loud holler and they felt it go,

they looked at me and I looked at them and they were just like, Daddy, you know, and I was like, what was that? And I'm like, I don't know, but we need to go now. So I grabbed them, you know, I hurtled them behind me, and I told them, don't run. Just walk.

Don't go super fast, but don't go too slow. Daddy's going to keep an eye out. So I put my eyes straight out to where the noise came from. And as we were getting away, we got about maybe, I don't know, 20 yards. And then I heard it start crunching. And I mean, it was a bipedal crunching. It was literally two feet. It was not because they have cows that go through grazing grounds in areas like that.

because the Forest Service likes to use those kind of things to help mitigate our forests. You know what I mean? And I think that's amazing. Great projects, but this was not a cow. This was way too high. And this thing, because you can hear it when it walks, you can hear all fours hit. This was not. And it followed us all the way until we got back to our vehicle.

And by the time I got into the vehicle, it stopped, but I just told the kids to run in there, get in the vehicle as fast as they can. And they did, they did awesome. Those little troopers, I caught in there, and I made sure to lock the doors, and I wailed that horn as hard and long and loud as I could. And I took off out of there, and you can't speed because it's a four-wheel drive road. So my eyes are constantly in the mirror looking, and I didn't see anything, but I just knew it was watching me. Whatever it was. Yeah, that's terrifying, especially when you're with your kids.

I want to ask you, you know, on your first encounter, you talked about this feeling that you had. And I think anyone that has run into either Sasquatch or Dogman can relate to that feeling. It's a very, very strange feeling. It's hard to describe, you know, where the hair goes up on the back of your neck. And I'm really curious. In this encounter, did you get that same feeling? Instantly. It was right after that noise went because it was like the noise rattled my bones.

And it just, it sounded so close. I mean, this wasn't like, we're not talking a couple few hundred yards away. This thing could have been feet away from us. And I had no idea. And I instantly, just my stomach sank. It brought me back to that day in eighth grade. I couldn't believe it. I was like, you know, instantly this isn't good or this isn't right.

We need to go. It was instant fear for our lives, survival mode. we got to go. Fight or fly it and I was not going to fight this thing because it was going to be way too big for me. Yeah, it reminds me when you and I were talking and, you know, you run into a cougar, you run into a bear, which I would imagine in your profession, like you said, you do it all the time. And if you, if there's no fear, if you have no fear running into a bear or cougar, you're a moron. But, you know, the fear with these things, whatever they are, It's on a whole different level.

It's a whole new level of fear. Oh, absolutely. It was 100% different. I mean, like I said, I faced, you know, on this last fire that I went on this season, I was in Northern California, and I ended up running into a 500-pound cinnamon black bear. Northern California cinnamon black bear. And this thing was scared out of its mind, and it was 15 feet away. This came running out of nowhere where we were checking a slop over on our,

our dozer line and as we were talking, looking this over, we heard a crunching and thumping and I thought to myself, wow, you know, somebody's really, you know, wanting to get a leg up, you know, they're really gritting the crap out of this thing looking for hot spots. And then out of nowhere this bear just came up on and stood there and looked at us straight in the face and it was breathing hard. It was grunting. I looked at my boss and he looked at me and I was getting ready. You know, I was, I was freaked out, man.

I was scared. You know, I thought, well, I guess if it's me, it's going to be me or the bear. So I grabbed my Pulaski and I was holding it tight. Just when, you know, I thought he might have made a move. My boss went, whoa, bear, and that bear went straight down the hill. You know, I never felt more relieved than my life, you know. But facing something that large, that close, visible, I still didn't feel the way that I did experiencing what I did.

Yeah, it's fear on a whole different level when you run into one of these things, you know, very different from an animal. a known animal anyway. I've often wondered if it's more of a primitive fear, kind of it's in our DNA as a survival mechanism, almost like we've met in the past. We've run into these things in the past. I'm curious, being a woodland firefighter, I wanted to ask you, you know, and God bless you you if you're doing that job, has there ever been a moment out there beyond the bear that you ran into where you thought, I'm not going to make it out of here? Or has there ever been a really bad moment out there fighting those fires because that's a tough job. Yeah, it's a brutal job. It tries,

I think, more mentally than it does physically. It physically, it's a really hard job. But, you know, I think I love it and I wouldn't trade it for anything else in the world. But there are points where you are on fire, kind of depending on what you're doing or what you're facing because, you know, whenever you get called out as a resource onto a fire, they kind of put you, you're at their mercy, especially in the side that I'm in, you're kind of at their mercy, and they put you wherever they need you. But a lot of times,

like, you know, I had one experience where I was, we were doing a burn show, which basically we were just going to back burn this area that we dug out. We dug up a nice fire line around it, and what we were doing was we were trying to stop this head of the fire.

If we can back burn this thing, get it going, it'll run into the other flame front and snuff itself out, and then we got that part of the fire dealt with. So we were sitting there after we burned it off. Well, the winds ended up kicking up and went against our favor. And when it went against our favor,

it shot up into the crowns, and it started to come our direction. The wind changed to our direction. And that being said, as hard as it was blowing and as hot as that was burning, it was just getting bigger and bigger and hotter and hotter. and eventually this fire was no more than maybe 20 yards in front of me. And I felt like a roast chicken. And I was just a toll to stay, stay, stay, stay.

You need to stay. You know, just keep an eye out into the green. And I thought for sure that it was the end. You know, I thought for sure, you know, we needed to get out of there. But that was as far as, you know, that was really, that was scary because, you know, after that, when they saw the slopovers and the size that they were, we couldn't put ahead on it. we had to get out. So they got us out before things got too south. And, you know, when you're putting a situation like that to the point to where you start

rethinking your career, you know? Yeah, no kidding. But, you know, after that, it was like, you know, being on a roller coaster. You know, it's really scary at first. But once you get off, you're like, I want to do that again. You know, that was the kind of situation. I was in, I guess. Yeah.

I really messed up hot roller coaster. Yeah, it's terrifying, man. I mean, I can't even imagine thinking you're going to sit there and burn. And like I said, it's not a job I would want. You guys got big balls going out there doing that. Let me ask you, Jacob, what do you think Sasquatch is? Out of all honesty, I don't think Sasquatch is good. I know that sounds crazy.

And I can't really identify it as anything because it's something that we don't know about, something we have. Like, yeah, you can talk to any research or you can talk to. anybody who's had multiple experiences with these things, but they really don't know what they are. They really don't know what their purpose is or any of it. We know so little for knowing so much. And it's like to be, but to be honest, anything that puts a human being in that kind of state of fear, even just a noise, you know, or even just being a presence. I just, you know, it's, I can't say it's a thing. I can't say it's an ape. I can't say it's a person.

but I can just tell you that it's that it's not good. You know, like I'm not going out and having breakfast with Sasquatcha Denny's, you know. Yeah. You know, but,

you know, because, but honestly, I just don't, I don't think it's good. And whatever it is, really, they're curious about us,

but I don't really think that they really want to interact too much. Because if that was the case, then they would, I think we would really have a, like a head on a population. or a group of them or something hiding somewhere, you know. Yeah, and I appreciate your answer.

There's definitely something different about these things. There's something I can't quite put my finger on yet. What is so different about these things? You know, and you're absolutely right. I mean, there's some encounters where it sounds like people are running into an animal. There's other encounters where it sounds like they're running into a human. You know what I mean? Right.

So it's, yeah, it's crazy. I can't really say what it is or, or how it got here or why or anything, but I can just tell you that it is, it's big and it is not, it's not good. Anything that makes you feel like that's not good, you know what I mean?

Like I said, with wild animals, it's a different story. You know, you get a different feeling. It's a fear of survival tactic, fighting back for the most part, because you can deal with something like that.

With this, you can't, and you have no idea how to deal with it. Because at least you've had people who have done research and studies on wildlife to actually give us this knowledge and this information, which is great about these guys coming forward about Sasquatch, because then we're getting more information and more knowledge about how to handle it

or how to deal with it or how to interact or some way. But in the meantime, I still think we're naive. We really don't know. I don't know. I wish I really knew. Yeah, I think we're all kind of looking for answers. And it's great advice what you're saying. We don't know enough about these things.

You know, it's not like running into a cougar or a bear, and you can kind of adjust based on the situation. These things can be unpredictable, and we don't know enough about them, and things can go south pretty quick. But I really appreciate you coming on, Jacob. Thank you so much for taking the time, and thanks so much for what you do out there fighting those fires.

Oh, I really appreciate you let me come on here and actually kind of, I guess, talk. because honestly, this is the real first time I've kind of come out since I was a kid about this kind of stuff. You know, like I told my wife, but, you know, my wife just kind of looks at me and she's like, oh, man, you know. She's a skeptic. Yeah, well, that's okay, too. I like skeptical people. You know, I love the hunters who are like, I've been out there my whole life.

I've never seen anything. I've never heard anything. And I'm like, I get it. I get it. But stay safe. and thank you again for coming on, Jacob. Cool, thank you. I appreciate it. Well, next up on the show, I want to welcome Roland,

and Roland's from Utah. He's from the Utah tribe, and he grew up two miles from Skinwalker Ranch. He worked most of his life as an outfitter, hunting guide. He's definitely been in the woods, and he's definitely run into a lot of bizarre things in the woods, and I'm honored to have him on the show tonight. Roland, thank you so much for being here. Yeah, thanks for having me.

Yeah, thank you again for coming on. I really appreciate it. And I wanted to, I know we're going to talk about a lot of different topics tonight. What I'd like to do is start with Sasquatch. If you would, would you take us back to the moment? I know from your email, you were kind of a young man, and walk us into that encounter. All right, yeah, and this happened about when I was around 12 years old. Me and my dad was in the, uh, towards a book.

cliffs area. I just had bought a spotlight one to, um, and we were driving around going back to camp. And it was there in a fishing season. And we was down fishing, so he was going back to camp. And he said, well, let's try this spotlight out and see how it is. And so he's just driving down the road. And, uh, we, um, came around his turn and we saw some, uh, some eye shine. Um, and I said, I said, just told my dad, stop.

There's something behind. this tree. So we backed up and we shined it over there and it was probably about five, six feet up. I thought it was up in the tree. And it was looking around the base of the tree. And the base of the tree was pretty huge. It was, it was a big tree. And we started looking at it. He was, oh, man, that's a good size bear. And I was like, all right. And it started moving its head around like then peeking around the other side of the tree. And I'd look for it and see it again. and they would come back the other way. And then the one, he peeked his head out, and he had disappeared.

And I was like, where did it go? So I shined down, and it went down about two feet off the ground. I was looking, and then all of a sudden it went up the tree about, I would guess, about nine, ten feet. And my dad said, no bear can climb that quick. And I just looked at him. I said, I don't know what that is. Then it came back down about five feet real quick. and we couldn't it was pretty quiet you know we turned the truck off was listening and i couldn't

hear no like you want to hear the bears climbing up trees they make some noises and uh it kept doing i just putting his head up head down and my dad says turn it off turn it off i don't know what it is and and he kind of freaked me out because you know he was being 12 years old it kind of freaked me out and he'll just get out of here turn that light off we're never going to do this ever again And we took off and he just says that was one big bear. That was huge bear. And I kind of thought to myself as, man, if it was a bear, why did he get so freaked out about it? Yeah, it sounds like your dad was trying to keep you calm.

Do you think your father knew what it was? I honestly don't know. We never, he didn't want to talk about it after that. We never talked about it. Yeah, we just never talked about it. so nothing had happened for quite a while after that and then we were hunting in an area and it's just a and where we go hunting it's

just deep deep canyons and we were hunting and we went down one, I was going down one canyon on a point and then my brother went on the other side my dad was just, he just stayed back and was chilling in a truck he goes you guys can handle this hunt so I went walking. off towards the point. It was going to drop off in that deep canyon. And I heard people

screaming and just top of their lungs. God, help us, help us. No, no, no, no. And just screaming, like family members and that screaming. I turned around. I was looking, and I was looking for my brother and I couldn't find him. He posted Ben followed me so we can both see on both sides of canyons if any deer were in there. I couldn't find him. And then I looked over using the webinar's trying to find my dad. I couldn't find him either. He said he'd be sitting in a search spot, and I couldn't find him, and kept hearing this, God off was screaming in these cany.

He's like, oh, shit. I thought, oh, man, man, there's a bear, bear or something's got him. And just, I took off running back towards way they were at. And I got back, running back to the side of truck, and my dad was sitting there. And then my brother comes up and he come running up. He goes, what's going on? I seen you running. I said, didn't you guys hear those screaming?

Didn't you? There's like people scream atop of her lungs. There's, they're like to be an attack. And he goes, no, we didn't hear anything. And then my dad sat me down. He says, a long time ago when the people first moved in to these areas, there's a family that lived in that bottom Canyon. And every now and then people would go in there and check on it,

each family because there were different families that lived in different areas and this was about like in the 1800s from what the story was told and they said that they had come up

and found this family down in that bottom of green they just built a new cabin and they were pretty much they said it was a bear attack everything, every family member was just torn to pieces they did

know what happened. They didn't know how to explain it. They just, they found bodies. And to them, they said it was bears, a bear went in there and killed the family members. You know, and again, talking, I mean, listening to your podcasts, I just thought, you know, it was, you know, all right, it was a bear back then. Now I kind of wonder, you know, maybe they got in an area where they didn't supposed to be. Yeah, hearing people, screaming in the woods, that would get my attention very quick. So the screaming that you heard, it was the spirits of the people who were dead. Is that kind of what you're saying? That's, yeah, that's sort of, yeah, the ghost or something. Yeah, it's, and it's happened to me,

like two or three times going to that canyon. And I know now what it is. And I'll just sit there and it just happens right before dusk. And you just start hearing screaming. And I know now what it is. And other, there's my cousin, he's no longer with us now, but he had heard it too. And I talked to him and we talked to each other about it. He said, I used to hear it.

But I didn't know what it was. And that's, you know, to being a, outfitter and guide for about 20 years. You know, there's back then, they were used to having bears coming around and that kind of stuff. And most bears wouldn't come into a home, you know, unless it was a mother bear

defending its little ones. Yeah. You know, or we few, I mean, doing the outfitting guide I've been around. I've had my encounters with bears, you know, coming up to me, charging me and being about two feet away from me, you know, and it definitely wakes you up to that. Yeah, and for a bear to get all of them. You know, a bear might pick up one might get two, but not all of them.

Yeah, yeah. And, you know, back then, I just listened to the story. Yeah, man, a heck of a bear. And I've been in that canyon, and it's a deep canyon. It is where they have that old cabin. That cabin is still there, too. and it's right next to the hillside just and forest as dark as can be. And I, after listening to a podcast, it's like, man, I don't, I don't know if that was a bear encounter, you know, and that, you know, hearing that.

Yeah, it really makes you wonder. I mean, you know, like I said, a bear killing one person, two person, but slaughtering everyone right there, you know, I guess it's hard to say what happened to them. and then hearing the screaming in the woods, I mean, that would terrify me. I wanted to ask you, there was an encounter where you almost shot this creature. Do you mind telling us about that situation?

Yeah, that would be our next one. There was three of us were hunting. We was elk hunting. And we got up on top of this mountain just above a lake. And we'd went off. We would take off. And me and my cousin, we were pretty avid hunters.

We'd go some places where hardly, we'd go in areas where hardly anybody would go. And we climbed up this mountain with another friend, and we went up there and was honey and elk. And we were looking for, if we were going to go out in those areas and had that much help, we was going to get a good-sized bull. And we stayed up there all day. You know, we took off like a four in a morning to get up on top of this mountain. And we hunted all day and seen some good ones. And we'd sat headed back, and the storm was moving in.

So we had to decide pretty quick, either head back down the ridge or drop off the canyon and walk down the road. And we decided to drop off the canyon to head to the road. We figured that it would be easier if it started raining really bad. We can just walk on the road. So that's what we did. We dropped off the canyon and got by this lake. And we started walking north. And it was about four or five miles that we had to walk.

And it was, the storm had moved in and it was raining on. It was pretty good. And it was a full moon too. So the storms had come in, it rained on us pretty good. And then the clouds would move out. And then the moon would come out and we were in a canyon. It was bright. And we could see pretty good when that moon was out.

And we were walking and told those guys, I said, man, I get it. Do you guys get this feeling that we're being watched? and my one cousin said yeah man I says a while back right he goes yeah we he goes I feel like something's following us and I said I feel like something's just watching us and following us so I said all right I said when this cloud cover comes I'm going to run up I'm going to hide behind this big sagebrush and I knew this area is really well and so that would happen and we I ran up maybe about 20 yards and then dip behind this stagebrush, and they kept walking.

I thought, all right, well, if this is a bear, we'll find him. We'll find him, and we'll put a stop to this. And we, they seen me, and I just put my hand out. And they kept walking by, and then the moon just right, came out just right, and they came, they went walking by, and I got up, and I knelt, I slid out to the side,

and I kneeled, and put my scope up and was scanning the, the ridge about maybe about a hundred yards up on the Sahel side and scanning it and sure enough this big

and I it was it was walking kind of like crouching like to me I would it would seem like it was like hunting it was like hunting

it was like hunting us crouching us looking at and I looked at a scope and I ran back to the guys I said, yeah, I said, it's behind us about 100 yards up on side of the hill. And I hear some noises off to the, my, and it would be on the east side of the canyon. And I heard some noises on the west side, but I, and we had a stream along there, and I thought, oh, it's just a stream. It's just, with this weather, it's making some different noises. So my main attention was up on that east side of the canyon.

And I said, all right. And we kept walking because the clouds came and covered again. So we, I said this next one, I says, because we could hear it still like the foot was walking up there, you know, and just making some subtle noises, but we could still hear them once we knew throughout was up there. And I said, all right. And we loaded our guns up.

And I hunt with a 300 weatherbee, my cousin with the Southern Mag and my buddy with Southern Mag too. And I said, all right, when the next sun coming and the moon comes out, we will turn around and we'll see this thing and take care of it. If this bear, it's going to probably come after us. So right now, moon came out and spun around, we scanned it, found it. And when I found out, I looked and it was standing up and it was, it was huge. It was, I'm guessing eight, nine feet tall. But it wasn't like a block. It was just, it reminded me like an athlete, just muscular.

And I noticed, and it reminded me of a bear because when we were guiding, we've killed some big bears and the bears just have big bears have little tiny ears on the side so in my mind i kept saying this is a freaking bear and then it dropped down and what threw me off and everybody else is with us is it dropped down to its knees well it went to like a crouching and put his elbows on his knees like and then he was like looking like if somebody was curious and trying to look at and trying to figure out what we was and he kept doing that and he kept doing that and bobbing his head around. And that's when my buddy freaked out.

And he goes, he just, and he started freaking out. I don't know what it is. I don't know what it is. It's not a bear. It's not a bear. And he goes, guys, don't, don't, don't do this. Don't do this.

And I said, it's following. And I says, man, and I says, and I told my cousin, you ready? And he goes, yeah. And I said, and I told my buddy, I says, on three, you chest shot. My cousin will do a chest shot and I'll do a head shot. And then it stood up. And I says, on three, one, two. And then my buddy just freaking turned around and took off.

And he was screaming. I can't do this. I can't do this. And he took off. He was out of there. And we mean, my cousin looked at each other. I was like, whoa, shit. And I said, you got it still?

And he goes, yeah. And we just kept looking at it. And I said, I don't know what it is. And my cousin said, I don't either. I said, it's not a bear. I don't, and we just, I don't know what it is. and you can hear him running down the cat running down the road. I said, we got to go back and we got to go get him.

So we just, we took off. And we had about a mile to go. And we ran all the way back to the truck, you know, and got in there. And he was freaking out. He was like, it's not a bear. It's not a bear. I don't know what it is. I don't want to think about it.

And he, he was freaking out. I told, settle down, settle down. We'll leave. We'll leave. We're not going to shoot it. We're not going to do nothing. We'll leave. And he got in there and he was freaking out.

And so we left, you know, and we talked about it. And it's like, I, we just, we just said, we don't know what it was. We, we just, we just didn't know what it was, you know. Yeah, and I realize that your friend took off running, but, um, and he kind of messed, messed up shooting this thing. But you guys had a second chance to shoot it. And I'm curious, do you think that's why you didn't shoot it because it was standing up? It was manlike?

I, I think so. And it was what. got me wondering when it nil, when it crouched down and put his arms on his knees, like come almost like a person, you know, and that freak, that kind of like, oh, what the hell is this? It's because a bear can't do that, you know, and it's, and it just, I remember its head was just like, its hair was like slick back and little, and its little ears on there on the side. And I'm like, man, this is this is not but I don't know what it you know I don't know what it is you know and that

that kind of just got me wondering we we talked about and we just we just we don't know what it was we just you know we just don't know didn't know what it was yeah I hear you it's a very cool account you know as far as I think a lot of hunters are in this position they'll run into these creatures and they'll say oh with some weird bear or they'll kind of brush it off And I know you spent most of your life out there as a hunting guide and kind of an outfitter. And I know you even worked for fishing game for a while. Was there other encounters that you had? Yeah, I've had a lot.

I've had a lot. And I just put them as, I just don't know what it was. Or I put it as, I was a freaking huge bear. You know, I've had, yeah, I've had a lot. The next one was, I started working, I was working for fishing games. and we was down there and we had to go do a spring development and we were spending like weeks at a time down there and our biologist came down and she wanted to see what we were doing making sure we's getting the springs done right and you know for the wildlife and and this is mainly

what happened to her and she came back and we were out there we wanted to work late to get things done so we can get out of there because we had been down there for about four days already and she stayed at camp and she was uh she said i'll i'll do a chicken dinner for our last um night so we we stayed down there working late and it was probably about six in the evening and she come hauling hauling back to us and she goes i go what's going on and she looked she looked scared and she goes um at camp i laid out the chicken to thaw And I left to go down the road to get, because we have fresh springs coming out of the mountain.

She said, I went to go get water. I came back and all her chicken was gone. And where the chicken was on his table was sticks that were broken evenly and left. And I was like, what? And she was, yes. She goes, something came and took her chicken and left broken sticks on the table. and I said, let's go see. So we all got our stuff and we took off up there.

Sure enough, we got up there and these sticks were broken perfectly like a foot long all on the table. And we joked about it, you know, and my cousin worked with me then too. And he was like, well, whatever it was, he thought it was a good trade. You know, we laughed about it, you know. Yeah, I was going to ask you that. You know, it's, if it was one of these creatures, what do you make of that behavior? I don't know. I mean, you know, he, to me, he, whatever it was came in, got the chicken, and, you know,

it felt like it needed to leave, you know, leave an offering of, thank you, this, I'm taking this, but here, this is what I have to replace for you for your fire. We just, when we had other food, so we weren't too put out about it, but it was kind of weird. and we just kind of brush it off like, okay, well, you know, and she was freaked out pretty, she was freaked out about it pretty bad. And I just, we just put it on one of those things like, you know, when we get in our family and I was just told is there are going to, things are going to happen out there. You need to either embrace it, talk to them, tell them to leave you alone, or,

you can be the other way and be scared of it all the time. And so I've kind of just, okay, I'm going to have these encounters. I need to embrace it and say, we always get told, brother, leave us alone. Our grandfather, we're not doing anything. Just we're walking through. We're coming by. And that's how we got through that and thought of, okay, this is just something we'll just tell them we're, were here for a short time and we'll be leaving.

And that's what I did, you know, and it was one of those things that it was just, I didn't have to explain it. Yeah, and I appreciate you sharing that, Roland. You know, several years ago, I would have said you're crazy, but I've had several eyewitnesses on the show recently who have done that. There was a guy that came out of a tent and they were thrown rocks and being very aggressive and he asked him to leave them alone and they left him alone. Cindy had her on from the East Coast and she had them on her property.

She went out there and said, you're scaring me, leave me alone. And for a period of time, they left her alone. I mean, it sounds crazy to go talk to the woods. And, you know, and my other question is, do they understand English? You know what I mean? It's weird. It works, but it's just weird. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. And we, you know, in our culture, we get told that. And with what they call little people. They are little people or they say they're tricksters because they'll throw rocks. They'll do stuff to you or they'll take things. You go and talk to them and they'll leave you alone. And that's what we've, you know, and we've done that. Or if you see the bear, because in our culture, my family, the bears are my animal, spirit animal, I guess you could say.

And our grandfathers, and we just tell grandfathers, you know, we're here. and this and we're not we don't mean no harm to you and you know and if they come around and that's what we we had done you know and so she was she freaked out on that and then the next one was we um we were down her again she didn't come back down there with us and we were working in almost in the same area and we were driving back towards dark and those boys were just uh the summer youth they'd take them out and we'd show them what we do with wildlife. And they were helping us and they were sitting in back over a truck while we were driving.

We only had like a mile to go to our camp. And it was getting dark and we were driving next to the ravine. And I had to slow down because there was a washout there. And the ravine was probably about five feet down. And I had to come up and I slowed down and I hit it. And all of a sudden I hear the boys in the bat. Oh shit, shit, shit, shit, go, go, go, go, go, go, go. and I'm like, what, what?

I said, what? And I rolled down my window, go, go, go, go, go, go. And now they said, it was a bear, bear, bear, bear, bear, bear. And so I just stepped on it, took off. And I got back to camp and I says, what, what happened, guys? And he said, right when you had stopped and hit that ravine, they said, this bear, this huge bear stood up. And he was so big when he stood up out of the ravine, his head was matching right next to the

cat, um, bed of the truck. and I was thinking there's no way a bear's that tall and I said you know just in my head and I didn't tell them I said man yeah that was a big bear guy I said well lucky you guys said something and got out of there

and he go yeah it was freaking huge bear we went back in the morning and I just the boys took off another direction I wanted to go down there and look and yeah that ravine was probably about five feet deep and where it stood up and was looking at

me and my cousin looking at the cab. It was, it was matching. They, what the boys saying, it was, whatever it was, pretty tall. But we did in a rain that night, so it washed everything out. Because we wanted to go see if there was any prints or anything down there to see. But yeah, they, that had happened. And we just kind of, again, put it as, and it's, I don't know what this, I don't know what that was. Yeah, those poor kids, man.

I want to get into Orbs and I want to get into the little people and some of these other weird things Before we do that I know there was a couple more encounters With either fishing game Or while you were a hunting guide Do you mind sharing those last two with us?

Yeah, there was two others One was I started working with a helicopter company So in New Zealand We would date The New Zealand company came over and they hired me to help instead of using tranquilizers, we use nets.

We'd shoot nets over the top of them and we'd kind of jump out of the helicopter where it's in the air and bulldog them and rustle them to the ground. And the one, we were working wintertime down there because we was doing, they got hired to do a capture elk and put radio callers on them.

So we were down there doing this job about 50 elk, getting this job done. And so the biologist then said, hey, can you guys fly down and see if there's any elk? I want to just kind of know what animals are further down. And we just kind of looked at each other because it snowed a lot that year. And we have buffalo pins down there. And we flew over their buffalo pens. And the buffalo pins, the poles are about eight feet. tall and they were getting close to being over the top of them.

So it's like, man, it's just a waste of our time to go fly down there, but we'll do it. And I said, well, you know, it's kind of cool if there's any buffalo down there or any, you know, whatever's going to be down there. We thought the only thing's going to be down there is Buffalo. So we start flying down there and we went for the furthest south of the reservation there was. And we flew down this canyon. And I told his guys, and we flew with the doors off. It was kind of cold

and we were, you know, had to cover alls on and was hanging out. And I said, look at the guys, there's tracks down there. And there was a pilot and he was from New Zealand and another guy from New Zealand. He's, uh, there's no way there's nothing down here. And we flew over him and

looked like big footprints coming out of these pine trees. And we just, and we were hovering over him about maybe about five feet in the air hovering and the pilot he goes oh my shit you know what this is and I go what yeah and I said a big bear and he was no this is big foot I said I just like no

and he goes dude we got her net gear I said there's no way we're gonna freaking net a big foot he goes that's the only thing that could be here and perfect perfect footprints going up the middle of the canyon just stepping and huge it was huge and I was like, holy cow. And, you know, and I thought, wow, there, there is something that's here. It's huge. And so we flew, followed it. And we were just joking and talking, but he was the pilot.

He goes, well, we got our net gun. We'll shoot up. I said, there's no way we're going to catch a freaking bear foot, a big foot, put a net over it. He goes, you know how much we could get for us? Dude, I says, it's hard enough for me to rust down the dang moose. And I said, this thing's got to be huge. I said it's at least four or five feet. The snows down are that deep.

And he's going through here easily. And he goes, well, you might be right. Yeah. And I said, there's no way we're going to go. And we kept following a track in it. It went right off into a deep ravine, real deep ravine. And we lost it in that, just that deep ravine. And that, then, you know, working up that in New Zealand, I worked with them for about six years.

and it always got brought up, what if we were to caught that big foot? You know? And that was something to see the footprints. They were huge. Let me ask you, how big do you think that they were? I mean, what kind of a size? And then I'm curious about the track line.

Was it straight? Did it or was it foot over foot? It was straight like a person was walking. You know, like a person was walking. It was straight. And it reminded me of somebody walking in the snow, because you could see where they stepped and drug their foot. And then, like, the heel was hitting it drug, like, where he was, the hill was hitting,

and then it'd go down, you know, and the snow was pretty fast. You could see, like, and I told him, it looked like hair marks along the edges. Because we had some binoculars in us. It looked like hair marks along those edges. And that's where we start. Holy cow, yeah, this, I just, you know, it's got to be something like that, a big foot, you know. And it was, this looked like. like a big giant person.

Yeah, I would imagine it's kind of hard to gauge the footprints if it's walking in deep snow. Tell me about your last encounter. The last one was we were hunting. We had a client. And the guy, he was an older guy. He was having a hard time getting an elk. So I said, so I mean, my cousin, we went out and we said, all right, we'll help you. And we went to this area where we knew there was a lot of good elk.

And that night, we went in there. and I found where the elk were at. And I said, all right, we'll take off that next morning. So we got up next morning about 4 o'clock. And I said, we've got about, you know, two miles to walk in the dark. So we got out there. We started walking. I stopped everybody.

And I said, well, this is odd. They go, what? And I says, we were in here last night in the dark elk were feeling like crazy. And I said, there's nothing. There's no elk. there's no birds there's nothing I said alright let's just keep going hopefully we'll find something towards

and we were heading to the west and to a deep really deep canyon and it was hard I mean people going that area there well there's nobody nobody goes into those areas just because they're so steep

and the cliffs it's just it's really steep and me and my cousin's gone down there a few times and we'd leave in like five in the morning. We wouldn't get back until like midnight. And it was just one of those deep canyons. And we got to the very edge of the canyon. And I said, all right, well, let's wait until sunrise starts coming.

And I'll do the bugling for elk. So I, you got to that edge. And it started coming up when I started bugling. And I said, guys, there's nothing. I said there was at least 10 bulls in here last night. And then we were standing there and then down in that deep canyon. And I've never heard it before. Well, I have and that's where I figured, okay, that's just a cow making a noise, a big bull.

And then I heard that. It's just, I've heard it on your guys' tapes where the Bigfoot just howls or, you know, just makes it. Kind of like that air raid siren, like the Ohio howl? Is that what you're describing? Yeah, yeah. Just howling. Just howling. And then we all looked at each other.

It's like, oh, shit. And then it started, and I don't know if it was tree knocking or if it was hitting rocks together because we just hear. And the hunter turns around and he goes, boy, that's a mad cow, huh? We all looked at each other. Like, yeah. Yeah, that bull's pissed off. He's pissed off. And then one other kid turned around and he goes, no, that's the night told him.

Because we would have people trying to come on our reservation just to look for bigfoot's. And, you know, and we didn't want that. So we told me, yeah, that's a pissed off cow. And then it started going again, just howling, man, it was insane. Because it was a deep canyon. it felt like it was just right next to us. And it was going and hitting the trees or rocks together, just pounding them.

And I said, all right, guys, it's time to go. And they said, all right. I said, told us guys, take the hunter back. And we stayed back, just listening. And I said, that must have what happened to the elk is they got out of there. They didn't want to be around this. I was telling those guys. And we listened for a little bit longer.

And then we left. We had to go get that elk for that guy, so we had to get out of there. But the crazy thing is, and this probably happens to other people, is I had a dang video camera. And I usually video or hunts, the elk coming in and everything. And it didn't even come to my mind to video the sound or this. And it was just, I guess I was just focused on that sound and what was going on, you know. Yeah, it would be too. And you know, that tends to happen with most eyewitnesses where they don't even think about picking up their phone or if they have a camera in hand or whatever because you're so focused on, you know, what's going on.

I completely understand that. I want to ask you, you know, being a hunting guide and an outfitter and all those years out there in the woods, one of the things that gets reported a lot is these weird lights flying around. And I will say most people have seen the lights more than they've actually seen the creature. They call them spook lights, balls of light. And I'm really curious. I know that you had an experience with the lights. Will you tell us about that? Yeah, yeah.

And that's being out there, I've come across that a lot. I mean, geez, over 20-something times being down there. For instance, my cousin, we'd always laugh, you know, about, he was always intrigued by the UFO and the light and the arms. So whenever we saw one, he would want to race. out and go and go see them you know and the joke between both of us was and i always said i said you know what this is bull if you go out there and we got and this light or spaceship comes up above you and does the fire and the sky thing to you i says do not call me in the booth naked because i warns you know and that was that was the joke between us you know is you know you're

you're nuts for wanting to go see these lights lights and the things that I've seen before, it just I didn't really feel comfortable, but he'd want to go and check him out and see, you know, we would be driving back. We'd be working late and we'd see in a canyon. It would light up.

And we'd be like, what the heck is that up? There's no lights. And so we'd be driving out there slow. And I says, we're only going to get so close. He was, no, dude, come on, man. Let's see how four we could get. and I was like, so we was driving closer and it lit up the whole canyon and coming up to drive.

I mean, it started coming up towards us and we shut off the lights and I think that's what we shut off the lights and all of a sudden it just, the light just shut off. This disappeared. And we just. Was it like a ball of light? It was it was like a huge, huge ball. You know, it was just like a huge ball like a big search light going up the canyon. And I don't know, you know, if it was looking for something, but it was going to the canyon. And it looked like it was searching for something because the light was like going back and forth in that canyon.

So that's where we went to go check it out. And then right when we turned off the light, it shut its light off. And then we sat there for about an hour and nothing happened. So we decided, all right, it's gone. We turned the light on, start driving off. And we got about maybe, and where the road is, we drive on top of the ridge. right we got back on top about three miles from where it was light turned back on I was like there it is again and it was probably like midnight and I said dude we got to get back to

camp because we got to get back up in the morning and get to work and yeah I says there's no way we're going to make it out there and and so we just left it at that one what do you think it was the only thing I can think of UFO you know I don't I don't know. The only thing I think of is UFO. And that's one I think was UFO. Has there been other times when we've seen the balls of light? The ball, there was one where, again,

we was working with that New Zealand team. They flew down. They dropped me and the one guy off. We were capturing bighorn sheep. We flew out of this deep canyons, and they dropped us off on top of the ridge. And it was pretty, it was bald. Baldi Ridge and so they dropped us off and they were heading back down to go get our nets and they said if we don't make it back up we'll fly back up here call on the radio and get our trucks coming up so we said all right so we started getting later and later and I saw I started making a on the radio called tell the crew hey guys come up here we've they're going to fly up here and they're going to just leave the helicopter there for tonight because it's getting too dark to travel so we're sitting there and then I

a guy, one of the guys from New Zealand tapped me on a shoulder. I said, hey, there they are. I said, they must have flew over there. And about, geez, it's probably about two miles away from us. We turned around and we yelled. Because what we saw was like a light, a flashlight looking on the ground on the road.

And we're like, oh, shoot, there they are. They're flashing our light towards us. So we turned around and said, hey, we're over here. And then the light went off. I'm like, how the hell? And then we, I said, quit messing around. Where are you guys at? And then we sat there for about two, three minutes,

and then the light came back on. And then it looked like it was looking on the ground for something. It was just like a size of a flashlight, you know, like those old Meg lights that the cops used to have back in the day, about that size. And then another one came on. So there's two lights look in and I was like There they are. I said

Hey, I yelled again and the lights went off. I said, you know what? I said, just screw those guys. They said, they're going to mess around. We'll just leave them there longer. So we're sitting there and a truck was coming up on their side And it was coming up a steep ravine. I said, hey guys. I said, they keep messing with us. They're they're going to keep mess with us. Every time we yell at them, they turn the lights off. I said, so come up that and I'll tell you. guys when to start hauling butt and go up run up drive up the road and scare them so he's all

sitting there and i can see the headlights to the truck i says all right there not half a mile from you go now haul butt and i said the lights are on their lights are on looking on the road and they started flying up the road and they got within maybe 200 yards of where they were going to be in a light shut off i said they're right there in front of you guys and i was like they're like there's nobody here, dude. I said, there is. There's lights. There's lights there. I said, get out. I said, I said, quit screwing around. I says, I'm getting tired. They're messing around. It's been a long day. And they said, we're here, dude. We're looking around. And they got out of the truck. I said, yeah, right there. They got to be right there. Nothing. Couldn't find anything. And that guy from New Zealand,

he was like, this is nuts. He goes, I'm out of here. I'm going home tomorrow. I don't want to even, I don't want to be here anymore. I'm done. I don't want to be here. You guys see too many crazy things down here. And we found out that it got too dark for them and they had to stay down in the bottom of the canyon so they didn't fly out. So they just, when it got light, they flew back to camp. But yeah, that was, you know, an instance where we saw little orbs of light over there. And like, sure enough, that kid that next morning, his dad slew in and he says, I'm gone. I'm out of here. And he left. He got his stuff and he was gone. And he never came back to work for work in that area again. Yeah, and it's strange. I just posted on the blog about Australia and their Min Min Min Lights.

And they're very similar to what we're seeing over here. I don't blame the New Zealand guy for leaving. But I know you've seen the lights many times. You and I've talked off the air. Tell us about another time where you saw those lights, the balls of light? Yeah, I've seen, I've seen a ton of them. But another time was when me and my wife and my daughters were out hunting. And they always heard my stories about, you know, lights and orbs or what they call people in the back old days, they call them ghost cars. They'd see ghost cars coming up the road and also they disappear. So we was guiding. I was going to help some people out get a buffalo. And we was in that same area. Same area we saw those other orbs with those helicopter pilots.

And so we were sitting there about five in the morning waiting for them. And my girls go, hey, Dad, there they are. They're sitting over there on the road. And I turned around. I said, oh, okay. And there's two, like two headlights. And so I flashed my lights at him. And they started coming towards us.

And I said, all right, we'll just wait here for them. They've seen us. And so it started coming towards us and did pay them in the stention. And I was getting ready. It was almost getting barely light. And I started getting my gear ready. And then my girls go, Dad, it's gone. I go, what is?

And I said, the lights. I said, what? I said, it was just right there. And I looked over and it was gone. I said, where did it go? My girl said, it went down in that little ravine. I said, why would they do that? And so I said, keep an eye on over there.

And so we turned on a truck and draw. over there. And my girls got, it was right here and now it's gone. I said, okay. And my girls go, oh, that's her first ghost car and stuff. You know, they freaked out and they, you know, they saw that one. Yeah, I wanted to ask you, you know, when these lights get reported, a lot of times people report different colors. And I was kind of curious on the, the color of the, of these balls of light that you're seeing. To me, if we've had to put a color to a color to it like silver. I guess,

you know, like a silver color. You know, that would be, to me, because I've looked at them, we've looked at them through binoculars and spotting scopes.

You know, we'd sit there and like, okay, we're not going to go out there to them. We're going to look at them through spotting scopes, skip video of them. But in videos that I've done before, it just looks like lights,

just like some, a flashlight, and that's it. And nothing, I was hoping to see like something behind it, you know, more of a spaceship. But it's just been, it just looks like lights, just hanging there. It's so bizarre. And so many people have seen the lights and I wish I knew what they were.

I want to ask you about the little people. I'm curious to your opinion on what they are, but have you had encounters with the little people? Well, we haven't, I don't know if we'd, see, that's where I kind of think. I don't know if they were, you know, I've had, when we, be sitting there hunting, I'd have rocks thrown at me, you know, like little pebbles, or I'd have like we'd be sitting there and, and I'd leave something over by the, um, where's kind of sitting, I'd leave something there like a candy bar. And I'd leave to go like to the restroom.

I'd come back and it would be gone. And ask my guys, who took my candy bar, man? And they'd be like, we didn't do nothing. and a rapper would be sitting there and I said, hey my candy bark is screwing around. You know, just not really caring, but just,

you know, and I would, dude, we didn't take anything. And then the guys that were with us to say, there's the little people. And,

you know, listening to your stuff. And I don't know if it could have been, you know, a big foot that was close. Because we'd be sitting, waiting for elk to come off this canyon. We'd be sitting under brush.

And I'd have, small rocks rolling down by us. And I'd be looking up and the guides, other guys that was sitting there, we'd be looking up like, what the hell is doing this? And it was always in our heads of little people. And then we'd say, knock it off, guys. We're just, we're just here to get an elk. We'll leave, we'll leave an offering for you when we leave. Yeah, I want to ask you, Roland, about the little people, because I've taken reports of them too as well. And I'm kind of curious your take on it. Do you think it's more of a spiritual entity that people are running into? And my part, I'm thinking spiritual. And that's how I've always seen it is spiritual.

That's the only thing if it was them they've done is throw rocks or move things to different areas. And that's what I was told. And I said, they'll move things to make you think, like, who's messing around with me or and then I was told that they'll watch you and they'll laugh about these things that you know they find humor in that where you know they'll move something like your pop can

they'll move it to the other side of the camp just so they get that humor on you looking for something that was you knew you put somewhere else kind of a thing. Yeah it's strange you know I get the there seems to be a joker's side to them, but a lot of Native Americans I've talked to,

they'll tell you they're very dangerous. What are your thoughts on that? And seeing that's on our side, what I've been told is just, they just tell us, talk to them, talk to them, tell them we need no harm. We're here, we're friends, and we was always taught to leave an offering.

So if we were something that encountered, we would leave, you know, a candy bar or some food or mainly we left jerky or and a lot of it is we would leave tobacco. We'd leave tobacco there, a cigarette or some kind of form of tobacco. We would leave there for them. Yeah, I really appreciate you sharing that, Roland. I know it's in your culture to do that. And I respect what you're saying.

And I really do appreciate you sharing, you know, different things that have happened to you. I know you're going to be on the history channels. Skinwalker Ranch. You grew up two miles away from this place, and I don't want to ruin the show. I'd love to have you back after the show, because I know there was a dog man. I thought it was a dog man, but it was a skinwalker that you ran into. But we'll get into that in another show. I wanted to ask you for the audience, what is a skinwalker? To me, from what I know, it's a shakeshifter of a, and I don't want to say, Everybody perceives a Navajo. You know, in the Uts of Navajo back in 1800s,

and I don't know if you know the whole story on that, is the Utes enslaved Navajos. And when they would do their raiding parties, they would go and do raiding parties and kill some of them and then take their kids, women and kids. So that started like a feud and, you know, wars back then. And then the Navajos set a curse on the Ute people,

the northern Ute people. Because there's different Uts or southern Uts too. And I don't know if they have anything down there, but here that's what that was, is we enslaved the Navajos. But as time has gone, you hear other people, other tribes, going into the witchcraft to, it's more like payback or they don't like this person. So they go and seek someone that's in that, you know, evil per se, you know. Like black arts?

Something that's, yeah, the black arts. They go get them to harm that person or put a curse on them. So they would come up, you know, and then they would go whatever they do. And so that's how that is, is the Skinwalker was back in a day slowly, solely on Navajo witchcraft. But now it's, you know, you hear more on nowadays. It's sometimes it's other tribes doing it. How that's turned into that. I don't know how.

But that's, it's the dark side of that witchcraft. And I was told to, you do not let them. see your fear. You may be scared, but you do not show fear. You show that you are a warrior and you will handle yourself against them. And I wasn't told that until I was older, you know, because I was being 10 years old

and the first one that happened to me, I was pretty terrified and not knowing how to, but people had come and told me, you know, when I was older, this is how you protect yourself. and it and it I did you know I gotcha and I appreciate your time and I won't keep you any longer one last question I want to ask you regarding this whole skin walker witchcraft black arts a lot of times when my this is my perception of course you talk to Native Americans that most of them don't even want to talk about it period and is there any sort of punishment in on the

reservation like if you're caught doing that you're out or I mean do they because it seems It seems like most Native Americans have no, they want nothing to do with that. You know what I mean? A lot of it to me is, I hope there's not because I'll be in trouble. But no, it's, if you talk about it, then you awake that spirit of the Skinwalker. If you're talking about it, then you open the door for it to come to visit you in that fashion. They didn't talk about it, you know, and I know that's what I've been told. You talk about it.

He will come visit you because now you're opening that door. You're curious. You're being curious about it. Now they found a way in or a weakness that they can feed off you. And that's, to me, is that's what it is. They feed off your weakness. And they'll try to go off that weakness and then just. keep coming after you. And if you don't, to me, if you don't stand up to it and overcome your

weakness or fears, they will, they will torment you to no end. Yeah, and I appreciate you taking the time to explain that, Roland. The Skinwalker is a little confusing because when you read different accounts, it sounds like a different thing. And some Native Americans will talk about it, some won't. And I know Brenda Harris, she told me that it's straight up witchcraft. And very similar to what you said as far as why they want nothing to do with it. I know you're going to be on the Skinwalker Ranch on the History Channel, and you grew up two miles away from this place, and I know there's a million more encounters that you've had,

and I would love to have you back. I could sit and listen to you, talk about your life all night long, but I really appreciate taking the time to come on. Thanks so much, Roland. Thanks. And that's it for tonight, everyone. Remember, if you've had an encounter, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com.

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