Sasquatch Chronicles - SC EP:763 Kryder Exploration

Episode Date: June 5, 2021

Tonight I sit down with Robert Kryder. Robert had an encounter when he was 14 years old. He spent most of his later years working in archaeology and treasure recovery. In 1995 while investigating an area he was looking to do a dig on he filmed a large black figure on a hill watching him. Robert said "For years we had been running into these creatures but it wasn't until years later I started really investigating Sasquatch."   Website https://kryderexploration.com Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/KRYDEREXPLORATION/ YouTube https://www.youtube.com/user/kryderexploration  

Summer is officially here. I didn't have a show on Memorial Day. And for my international audience, Memorial Day is an American holiday. We celebrate it on the last Monday in May. And we honor men and women who have died while serving in the United States military. And I didn't get a chance to pay any respect to the military. Let's do that now. October 2011, Jessica Buchanan was working as a human,

humanitarian aid worker in Somalia. Her car was hijacked, and Jessica, along with the Danish co-worker, were taken hostage. I figured they were going to rape me and then kill me. They drove many miles with an AK-47 pointed at Jessica's head. And I just keep thinking, this can't be the end. This can't be the end of my life. I'm only 32 years old. I haven't had any children yet.

I didn't get to say goodbye to Eric. I didn't get to say goodbye to my dad. Like, this can't be the end. It was getting dark, and they were pulled from the car and instructed to walk. And they tell us to get down onto our knees. And I think, okay, this is it. Like, I'm bracing myself.

to be shot in the back of the head. And I think that there's mercy and the fact that maybe they're not going to rate me first, but that it's just going to be quick. And I'm waiting and I'm waiting. And then all of a sudden somebody shouts from behind us, sleep. Oh my God, I didn't hear that correctly, did I?

He just said sleep. Paul was a Danish co-worker of Jessica's who was also taken. They both laid down and passed out from exhaustion. The next morning, Jessica would ask the man in charge. And we ask him, are you going to kill us? Is that why we're here? He says, no, no, no, no.

Money. We just want money. $45 million is what they wanted for Jessica. Jessica was kept out in the open. given just enough tuna fish and a small amount of water to survive. The sun would cook them during the day and they would freeze at night. Jessica had a small blanket. She said the rainy seasons were the worst.

You're out there trying to sleep, you're already cold, and now you're all wet from being rained on all night. It was just short of hell. Yeah, I mean, they treated us like animals. To be so sick that you're vomiting behind bushes and you can't walk straight and you're laying in the fetal position on the ground under a tree and they don't even, they don't care. Their duty was to keep me from dying because then I wasn't worth anything. Almost three months of being held hostage, Jessica had become very ill.

She told the hostage negotiator in Nairobi She thought that she had a kidney infection And she'd become so sick She thought she was going to die I'd become so ill that I couldn't stand up I couldn't walk Because I was in so much pain And I said I think I have a kidney infection

And I started to cry And I said I think I'm afraid I'm going to die out here This message was transmitted to the FBI, and they forwarded it to the White House. Doctors had consulted with the president at that time, and if it was true that Jessica had a kidney infection, they gave her about two weeks to survive. Jessica had chose a star in the Somali sky to represent her mother, who had passed away a year before. She would talk to it every night. Please tell God that I need some help.

We need to get out of here. On that same night, January 25th, 2012, two dozen Navy SEALs had parachuted from a C-130. The SEALs landed two miles from where Jessica was being held. In the aftermath, nine dead Somali pirates. It was a message to the rest of the Somali pirates that the American military will come for their own. And I see this look of just sheer terror on helper's face.

And then all of a sudden it's just this eruption of gunfire. And I think, okay, well, this is it. This really is truly the end. And I cover up with my blanket again, and I just start saying, oh God, oh God, oh God. And I just remember thinking, or maybe I'm saying out loud, like, I cannot survive this. And then all of a sudden I feel all these hands on me. roughly grabbing at me and I try to protect myself and I pull the blanket closer on top of me and then I hear my name but it's not a Somali accent it's an

American accent and I can't compute like I can't understand that somebody with an American accent knows my name and they say Jessica we're with the American military. We're here to take you home and you're safe. All I can say over and over is you're American. You're American. I don't understand you're Americans thinking, how did you get here? And I'm still alive.

And then they identify themselves. And that they knew I was very sick. And they have medicine. They have water, they have food, and they've come to take me home. At that point in time, I have never in my life been so proud and so very happy to be an American. It looked like somebody was bent over and had their head in the window of the deer blind. It either heard me or smelled me, and he pulled his head out of the tent and stood straight up. and that shocked me.

They don't make people that big. The way it moved, almost as if it was gliding across the beach. I've never seen anything move like that in my life. They were screaming at each other in gibberish. It sounded like a language, and they were chuntering away back and forward, back, forward, back and forwards.

I know what a bear looks like, and there is no way on this planet of what I saw were bears. What are you reporting? Jesus Christ, you better. Chair? See ya! Hello? Get somebody out here. What's going on now, sir?

That's son of a bitch is about six foot nine, I don't know. Do you see him now, sir? Yes, I'm looking right here. Uh-uh. Yeah, go get a bit from that. Tazeka. Hey, get a bit from that. No touch that.

Punta. Punta. Oonta. I can't stand those jawa's disgusting creatures. Welcome to the show, everyone. Thanks for being here tonight. Got a great show planned for you. We're going to be chatting with Robert Kreider.

And Robert spent many years kind of investigating. He's still looking into the Sasquatch subject. What's fascinating is Robert didn't start out looking for Bigfoot. He actually started out as a treasure hunter. He was looking for lost minds, lost civilizations. He would get these contracts. You can take a look at some of his work if you go to crider exploration.com, and I'll include a link to that. I'm going to ask him a little bit about that tonight. Also, Crider Exploration on YouTube.

He posts most of his evidence, you know, audio, video, physical evidence up on his YouTube channel. So if you get a chance, go check it out, Criter Exploration. I definitely have a lot of questions for him tonight. If you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. And if you get a chance, check out Sasquatch Chronicles.com, you can become a member and get additional shows. Let's jump into it tonight. I want to welcome Robert to the show. Robert, thanks for coming on.

Thank you for having me. Yeah, I appreciate you being here. And I really want to get into some of your encounters and things that you've found from investigating these creatures. And I know the whole Sasquatch subject, you know, was with you from a very young age, but I'm very fat, and we'll get to that in a moment, but I'm very fascinated by the treasure hunting. Tell us a little bit about it, if you would. Well, I guess I'll start out with the interest in Sasquatch started at a really young age, and then it kind of leads into the other, I guess. So I was exposed to a lot of tales and family stuff and historical stuff just because of what we went and did in

Canada and whatnot. And so Bigfoot had come up in my life at an early age. And then I had my first experience about 14. So it was one of the many things that let me know that there was, there existed wonders in the world that hadn't been found yet or fully exposed. And that led into a life of it. So I guess with the treasure into stuff that started with hidden history and things that were being hidden from us. And it kind of, I guess, evolved on the same rate with Bigfoot just in the, in myself. But as far as action goes, treasure and the hidden secrets and ancient cities and cultures that advanced ancient cultures that supposedly, you know, we don't teach about, know about whatever. And I expected as I grew older to learn about these things in school and never did.

And as I did, that just became more frustrating. And as well with the Bigfoot, you know, too, it just kind of went along with it. So as I got older and I got more able to go out and do what I wanted to do, basically, I began to look for and research and those things myself, which led me into ancient historical sites that either people are known and people have looked for, even for thousands of years, or sites that were completely unknown and things that we were finding when we were out there. And it evolved and evolved into kind of a science, so to speak. And we began to be pretty successful at not just locating unknown or, you know, lost legendary sites, but actually, you know, seeing the commonality and the codes used to hide things. So as we got better and better,

I got better and better at it, my value to certain individuals went up. And so I got more and more exposure to remote and very special places. And it just so happens that, you know, a lot of these places that we would go to were also frequented by Bigfoot being extremely remote. You know, if you're going to hide something, especially of immense value or importance, you're going to do it in a location that's, A, hard to get to, be hard to stay at, you know, and see harder to work. And so these just end up being some of the most hidden, remote, dark, deep, or high, craggy, you know, spots you can find. And so that also just kind of went light along with the Bigfoot thing. And so, but doing this and doing that world also required a

tremendous amount of discipline and tenacity, a lot of courage. You know, if you're out there doing that kind of work and you hear something, smell something, see something, feel something, whatever happens, you can't leave. There's no, oh, I'm going to go back to the car and go home because I'm scared and I want to get out of here. That just, that doesn't exist. So if you're on site for a week, you're there for a week regardless of what happens. And So a lot of things were formed in my personality that I think yielded probably better results now and what we do now. And not just scientific process, but the discipline to apply that process in the field. And I think that, yeah, so that just evolved into it.

And then I guess I just go into real quick. In 2010, that's about when I started to see what was online with the Bigfoot world. And we had filmed my first one from a treasure site in 1995. and that's a pretty bad video, but it's really the early, early digital cameras, some of the first out there. You know,

we had 120 power zoom to try to film this thing, so it's pretty shaky, but it is what it is, and it had a big impact on a lot of people back then. And so I, you know, reintroduced that in 2010

and started again and trying to give some kind of realistic view, you know, because for us, it was all a matter of fact. It was just an all a matter of what's out there. We just, it's one of the things that we know about that other people don't know, that exists. And having to deal with it at that level, I'm sure it was mystical and wonderful, but it was scary and a real concern.

So we developed a little different viewpoint. But, and I think all that stems out of that, you know, treasure recovery world just because that's a very secret world. And everything you do, there's, you know, no one has a good interest in anyone finding out about it, basically. So yeah, I want to come back to the encounter in 1995 of the figure that you guys took on the hill. What I find fascinating is, you know, the encounters you've had while after treasure hunting, you know, it's, it's probably too much for us to go into tonight because there's been a lot of weird run-ends you've had and a lot of weird things you've seen out there out in the middle of nowhere. Last question about the treasure hunting.

What kind of stuff are you trying to find? I mean, give me an example of probably the most amazing. thing that you've actually recovered? Well, there's several, I guess. In a couple, I have a hard time making public. But we found advanced technology that'll burn your electronic equipment up in your hands and basically things like that. I mean, we've found chambers with mechanical devices in them that are emitting

field or absorbing electrons in a massive field and then emitting a beacon out the top. you know, that's in an algorithm that's, and stuff like that. I mean, it's got, the biggest stuff's got pretty off the chart. And then as well, the Montezuma mines, some of the most famous lost minds, you know, ever in history. And Cuskerza, that's where they fought the monsters on the surface before they could emerge in the Hopi legend or in the Hopi histories. We found that in 2004.

So it's pretty big stuff. Yeah, it's fascinating stuff. I really wish we could do a whole show on it because I'd really like to dig into everything you just said. I want to ask you, though, is it something that you keep or when you recover something, does it go to a benefactor? Well, if it's, it's all been all the above. So one of the ways I got good at doing the decoding was just to be an asset and not be anyone that was on the bankroll, basically, or on the payout. And so most of that stuff was done on other people. private sites. I would be hired to go in and literally decipher and find the stuff, map it, do the deep earth ground imaging, site proofing. Sometimes the archaeology and excavation, we'd be in charge of all that. And then we did the job and left. And, you know, if you, on every one of these, you sign an Indian C, you know, non-disclosure, non-circumvention agreement. Most of them are for many more from five to 25 years. And so these aren't things you can just readily

discuss, you know. But some of the sites are our own. And I would say, yeah, we've made great. We've made tremendous recoveries in the past and everything. But when when you're working on the big stuff, the values are so high and the, I guess, the ramifications as well, so impactful that they can be pretty tough. I mean, we've had interference from all seven major agencies in the government. We've even including with National Guard help, we've had radar sites. We've had, I had gunfights on site with black bag groups that want to come in and try to rob them. You know, it goes through the gamut. So I stayed out of the backside of it on a few.

And then one of the big ones we did in 2004 or five, which is an extreme high value site. And when we got it all done, basically doing two years of archaeology and all the groundproofing and science and everything, that location came out to be worth. at today's price, about $25 billion still sitting. And we did. We recovered gold there. We recovered the largest collection of Spanish colonial mining tools in existence on that site. We still have most of them. You know, so it's, so I stayed at that level.

That was my dig, but the finance group tried to burn us on that one because when the value got proved. So when the value went so high and it was proven, then all of a sudden the everyone, one went at each other's throats and us being the sole knowing party, when we got screwed out of it, then they were literally stopped from progression. So, you know, Mshah, the Mind Safety Hazard Association and OSHA both went in there and shut the whole thing down when we were kind of screwed on it. So when it gets to be too big, it gets to be really big problems. I mean big. It's all the gloves come off.

Best friends turn into enemies. And so like I said, normally. I stay out of the out of the game part of it. But, but, you know, that time we did. And I think I lost that 750K on that thing and just on the operational side. And I don't, we never really recovered from that one. But, you know, now we're getting back into it. So I'll be honest with you, it's one of the reasons I dove headlong into just busting out about Bigfoot because it's another thing that I could shake up the powers of be, be a thorn in the side of academia who I know knows and start to enlighten people and bring questions up that need to be answered,

you know, reveal things that would intrigue people. And that, no one could take anything from me. You know, I could lose what I invest, but I couldn't lose, you know, my 10 or 20 years work to someone else's profit and myself and team not be able to talk about it. You know, So it was one of the things we could do to bust the paradigm. And that's really been the, I think the incentive of the entire time, West, is not to gain anything other than knowledge and information and data and to fulfill that childhood desire to throw it back in the ones faces who weren't showing us, you know. And that's so.

Yeah, I hear you. I appreciate sharing that. Gosh, I'd love to ask you more questions about it. I want to do this. If we could, can we back up to 1995? And I'll post a video. If you go to Sasquatch Chronicles.com and underneath this episode, you'll find the video. And I know you said it wasn't very good, but I actually thought it was pretty good for 1995. And for the audience, there's like this weird figure on the hill watching you guys. And it wasn't until you zoomed out. I was like, wow, they're really far away from that figure. If you would tell us about this encounter,

or kind of what were you guys doing? And then how did you notice that there was a figure on the hill watching you guys? Okay, so this goes, we had been given information of a location based on satellite data from a source only known to us as the painter. This was some pretty advanced, what most people don't know about the technology, which is atomic harmonic resonance and multispectral. So there's multiple satellites used to do imaging and. and materials analysis that was in the backdoor gov in those years. And we had a source that got us information on targets. And so we had a target kind of in the middle of nowhere.

It was a few miles out. And we wanted to go proof the target before we notified any landowner or holding. And we'd already done the research on it. We'd already seen that it was basically state land and had a grass lease and whatnot. But the people who had the grass lease were very mill. about people going out there. Now, this rings back to the Bigfoot as well, the whole reason for this we found out.

And they also track everything and everybody. So there was no way to get in there on any kind of vehicle or anything else. So we had parked off land. We made a deal with another landowner, park off land to go out and use this new camera because it was one of the first digital to tape cameras that existed. And it was made by JBC. had 10-power optical zoom, 12-power digital.

I'm sorry, 12-power optical, 10-power digital. And so we took that out onto the land, and we used that as a starting point. And, of course, we were already going out there during almost sunset. So we had maybe one hour to run at speed to get to the site and to check it real fast and then to run back.

And so we dropped off, it's in a Mesa land. So what you're seeing is basically a small section of ridge line that leads off a Mesa there. And then when we get in the valley, we're looking up at that skyline ridge to the east. And so we got the sun at our back. So he's facing the sun. And so anyway, we dropped off a Mesa into the lower bottom lands. And it's all mesquite trees, probably 10 or 12 foot high. And they can be pretty thick, but sparse enough to where you can see out most of the time that you're,

going through them. And so we're jogging through those jogging, jogging. And suddenly just out of nowhere, the guy with me just yelled Bigfoot, just like that. And so now I got to let you know that we already knew and had an idea there was something like that in the area because being in that area, eight miles south of there, we had quite a bit of things happen, strange scat prints. You know, I found a trackway of 16-inch prints and everything. And this guy was bigger that we were looking at now. But anyway, so John Yills Bigfoot at it, and we're at a run. And instead of even looking up, I just grabbed the camera because I know better. And I just grabbed the camera and started fiddling with it to get it on because certainly didn't expect anything.

And when I did, John was staring up and I said, where is it? Where is it? And he said up there on the ridge. And so I think actually, I think I start recording maybe even before I even find it. I think if you watch the video. But so I get it on John and I put it on his shoulder. And he couldn't be still enough. I couldn't be still enough.

And I kept telling him, you know, try to be still. And I kind of shook off and lost it for a minute at high zoom. And when I zoomed in on it, when we were looking at a distance, you know, we've got every little cedar tree and every other mesquite bush, basically, it's the only two big things out there that we can see everywhere, you know. And there was extremely dissimilar being a totally different hue and color and just absorbing the light, just black. and from our distant point of view. So when I zoomed in on it, I kind of tripped because of the symmetry, you know,

because we were expecting cedar tree or something like that. And zooming in, I could see the lighter, there's lighter color to his chest and parts of the arms and things and it looked too symmetrical. And then there's a portion in there where, you know, it's all happening very fast, but there's a portion in there where it actually,

it's position changes a little bit. And we actually caught that in between the frame. So we talked about it later. So anyway, so I kind of thought it was and kind of thought it wasn't. I zoomed back and after a minute, you know, I just, I shut it off. And I told John, and I got to say it was over a half mile, the distance to where he was. And so, and I think he had about, I think it's maybe 150 or 200 foot elevation on us. And so he's big. I mean, real big. And so I told John, man, we got to go. You know, this is the only time we're going to get in here. We got to go see and go out. So we literally, really, shut down and took off. And I was thinking when we went back by, we were already losing light. It was probably going to be skyline. And then I never even, it had already got darker by the time we got back there. So I wasn't able to check. So we went ahead and contacted the landowner's son. He was a pretty good guy. And he actually got us permission from the parents who even their own family is not allowed to hike out there at all. And anyway, so he took us down there. And sure

enough. And what's funny is the site we were actually looking for wasn't far behind where that creature was either. So when he took us to the spot where the creature was, I showed him the video and he, I mean, you know, he kind of had a meltdown moment. You could see it in him, you know, because he'd never even really, these guys never even heard of it. They never even heard of a monster called Bigfoot. So these are hardcore ranchers. The types of no pictures on the wall, you know, beef and bread every meal. And so, you know, he really flipped. And so, but he agreed to go down and look.

It intrigued him. And so he wanted to see if there was something standing up there, you know. And so that's what we did. We went out and took a look. And I found where it had been standing. It took about two weeks to go out there. And we had a little bit of moisture in between them and not a lot, but enough to where it definitely, you know, took the detail out of the tracks, but I was able to find tracks.

and they were over 20 inches, but I really couldn't tell the definite. I mean, this ground out here is real, real hard pack, and it had broke surface on the ground, which was impressive. I didn't expect to find any tracks. And I tried to look from his position over the hill, and I could barely, barely see where we were. And you'll see in the video, I guess, that you can see them from the waist up. You can even map, you know, with software.

You can take a look at the video straight off the tape, and you can actually map fingers in the mouth and eyes and genitalia. So, you know, we know it was a big male. And the, but the fact is you could see that portion of his body from down there. And I'm telling that I could barely see over that ridge because he's standing on the backside of it. And so he had to be huge.

I mean, 10 to 12, you know, somewhere in that range. And it's just the way it goes, you know. Yeah. And like I said, I'll throw the video up on the blog. You know, Robert, I kind of think it's a good video. I think it's actually a pretty cool video. For 1995, I mean, is it definitive? No.

But for guys who are out there just doing treasure hunting, weren't really looking for the creatures. And then the saying's up on the hill kind of looking at you guys. And for the audience, it just looks like a big, huge black, human-like figure looking down and looking at you guys. Let me ask you, Robert, what made him, how did you guys even notice the saying was watching you? I know the guy you're with, he's the one that said, oh, it's Bigfoot. But how did he even know that it was up there being half a mile away? Well, that's what I said.

It was absolutely dissimilar. So to our vision, it was a black dot. There wasn't another black dot anywhere. And this is open country. We, you know, we could see for miles. And there was nothing like that anywhere. And so, and I don't know why that he just blurted that out because this is a Ratcher's kid. This is another guy.

he was very aware and he had been with our crew for quite a while. So we, you know, we'd already discussed that. And I'd shown him sign. And he grew up there. He was kind of in disbelief. But there are local stories and legends about a monster. They call one Red Peaks monster. They call one the Bard Monster.

And it's just, but the people here don't talk about those things. So actually, this valley is like high stream central. I mean, it makes Skinwalker look tame. And it's a lot bigger areas, 40 miles across, not 500. makers, you know. And so, but it's unspoken. You know, all these things are things that are kept totally out. No one talks about it. And so he was more aware, I guess, maybe, but that's, like I said, that's just how it happened. It's just what he blurted out. I wasn't even looking at him when he saw it. You know, he just froze and yelled it. So. Yeah, and I was intrigued by the video.

I mean, I really was. And I'll throw it up underneath this episode if people want to watch it on Sasquatch Chronicles or go to Crider Exploration on YouTube and watch a video there. And so you go, 26 years, you go from really being more of a treasure hunting type of guy to looking into Sasquatch, spending a lot of time investigating Sasquatch. And I know you've captured a lot of audio, you've captured a lot of footprints and a lot of evidence. I'll probably have to be back for a part two to actually go into it. but from one of your areas, you captured a howl.

And this is from 2013. Let's take a listen. And I'll have to have you back for a part too, Robert, so we can kind of go into some of your audio and other things. I want to ask you, when you're out there investigating these areas, have you ever had an encounter where the appearance shocked you or maybe their behavior shocked you? Yeah, absolutely. So when I took the picture of the alpha female at,

the GLST research area. And we designate them because we work so many different ones and we repeat study and keep the research going. That way people can keep track. When we say GLSD, they already know which family unit and where we're at. And so the large female there, the alpha female there, we topped a knob. It's about, oh, that's probably four or five hundred feet tall,

almost a mile away from her. And she was in a little opening in some trees during the enter time, so there wasn't a lot of green cover here anyway. And all it took was us cresting a ridge and me turning toward her for her to snatch up her kid who isn't small. He's like seven feet at that time, George, and grab him up and we'll walk and off with them at a mile. And that was surprising to me because nothing reacts to you at a mile. Now, pronghorn antelope, they react. They'll see you and know you're there longer probably than any other species in North America. even they won't bother it a mile because they know you can't do anything to them.

There's nothing you can. And they know you probably can't even see them. Now, for her to do that told me how shy they really were as far as how nervous they get when something is even at that distance away. And then about that same female anatomically, I think what surprised me more than anything was when we look at Patty, she looks pretty broad and narrow hip. But the female there isn't. She has the classic larger.

buttocks, large thighs, smaller, more narrow shoulders, more narrow waist. You know, that form and arched a lot more, that form more than what I've seen in a lot of other photographs and things. And so that surprised me because that is the classic, you know, global woman, the Venus form, you know, is larger in the hips and thighs and stuff. And what I saw in Patty, you know, she was kind of almost homogenous, you know, she was almost androgynous, I should say. She's built like a refrigerator.

Yeah, she built straight up and down. Yeah, where this female, now maybe she turned her shoulders, they would have been a little wider or what have you. But I did notice from the lower back arch region to the buttocks and thighs. The buttocks and thighs were a lot larger than what I've seen on the males. It seemed, it matched a lot about like humans. I mean, that's kind of both. That surprised me a little bit.

I didn't expect that on the morphology. And then in facial features, you know, she looks a lot, I guess, more monkeyish, you know, but I mean, some people look more monkeyish too. So I can't say that so much about her, but she has a large lower jaw. She has a smaller, a little bit more recessed forehead than the male does. So her nose is a little shorter, whatever. But like the male, he, you know, the big alpha male, I got to see him once. And he got him on video a little bit.

And the scariest thing, you know, the whole 10 years we researched down there really found his prints two days. And I got to running him by myself during the daylight, you know, extremely close quarters, stayed in there for an hour and 45 minutes within 40 feet for me, got his video. And the whole thing's on tape. His brow ridges don't descend down at the outside. I'll tell you that. So they almost go up.

Almost a classic monster look. So even I think if he wasn't in a bad mood, it almost still looked like he's in a bad mood. has a very stern, stern, stern, stern appearance to the face. But his nose is slender and it's actually a little small for the size of his facial structure. Big cheekbones, real big eye, real big eye ridges, almost a single brow, you know. The head's conical a little bit, but not so much that I'd say, you know, has a sagittal crest. Literally, it almost looks like more like muscles from the traps go all the way up to the top of the skull and make the skull look a little taller. is but the face, you know, just it looks, it looks classic relic human, you know, caveman.

But I guess the way that happened was, like I said, it took, it was a lot of years. So it's close to 10 years of research on them. I think about that time it was probably nine, eight or nine. And we had never found good, good, good evidence of the big mail besides audio. So we used to track him with the big dish. We track him coming off this mountain and he'd how, you know, You know, and it'd take him about 25 minutes to get, you know, about four or five miles off this mountain and down into the river valley. And what he would do, he would howl, a long howls, about 800 hertz.

And then his howl is, you know, they're all a little different, but his howl descends at the end down to about 700. And so he would repeat this. And each time he does it, the family unit would respond. I would assume it's the alpha female. It would respond with one sound. And it almost never repeated the same sound. It was either you hit something or it'd be a big. big deep grant or it'd be whatever.

And then he would move and howl some more and then she'd do it again. And then eventually you'd get into the river valley and they'd have a little celebration. You can hear them whooping and waller and everything and then it would quiet. So we had gone, we had tracked that several times and tried to go down where they were on audio. And we would find sign, you know, the first, you know, the young, the first infant or toddler, Squatch Prince, we got of the group. We're doing that, you know. We recorded the big one killing a dog.

We went down there to find out where it was. And we found prints of a medium-sized, what we assume is a female. And then we found prints from the young there. But no sign of the big one. And it just went like that for a long time. And one, about six years in, I guess, no, I'm sorry, about five years into that, we went down when everything was frozen in the entire little riverbed there and all the water was covered over an ice.

But yet it ran under the ice, you know, a few inches deep. And you could see where he came on frozen ground, didn't leave a track and crossed that and broke through that ice. And it was about two and a half inches thick. And, you know, every other animal deer and everything are cruising all over and they're walking on it. They're not going through it. And but every step, boom, boom, boom, punched a hole right through it. And the step gap is eight foot. And then the last two were 10 and then 12 out to the bank.

and the tracks are huge. I mean, you couldn't tell because it was the break, but he was punching straight through it. And they were huge. And so that was really the only tracks we'd seen him. And well, then Bob, good buddy of mine, Bob Fenstermaker, was out with me. And I'm going to tell you, I mean, I'll pat myself on the back. I'm a good tracker.

I mean, just because I've been able to track everything so far. And I was watching and looking for prints. but when you come upon a 23-inch footprint, if you're too close to it, your brain may not register it as a footprint. And I was standing almost right over it. And Bob was back about 25, 30 feet. And he got what we call shines.

When you're tracking, you got shines. If you have the sun at an opposite angle, you look at the ground, you'll see any flattened surface will kind of shine brighter than the rest of everything else. And so we're tracking, we call that. So you're looking for shine. It doesn't matter if it's in leaves, on dirt,

It doesn't matter. But Bob was at the right angle and far enough away. He caught the shine off that print. And I was standing right next to it. And he said, look at that print next to you. And I looked down and I saw it that I didn't even accept it. Okay. So the two main, the first metatarsal or the first great toe and the second toe,

their imprints looked just by themselves, looked like the hoof of a cow. So except one was a little larger than the other. And then you could make out other toes. And I was like, what the hell? So my brain first walking up didn't notice that because that's what I picked up on. So when I got to look at it, oh, my God, and I really looked at it. And we checked it out. So we also found it there.

And then we found out where he walked out into the riverbed where the ground is so hard you can drive a car and not really leave much of a dent. It's hard rock cemented together with mineral. And he was smashing everything flat within his prints. And then I could see the heel really clearly. And it was about six inches wide at the heel. And so we concluded that day, didn't find much more. And I wanted to go back in and find something worth casting.

And I didn't have casting material with me, but I was going to find it and preserve it and then come back in. Because it's not all, it only takes about two hours to get in there. And I was in there with the guy and he left. I don't know. I'm not sure why he left because we started finding sign. And about 45 minutes in.

And he said, Hey, man, I got to go. I'm going to bolt. And I told him, well, I'm not going anywhere. And he said, all right,

well, whatever. So he left. And I told, I took a picture at that point and I was I was a little nervous and reflecting because what we'd found the day before and now I'm here alone and and you know everything and I've never been around this subject that I know of. And I know I've recorded him killing dogs and it didn't sound good. So it was pretty intimidating. So I waited probably 30 minutes and I walked off and I got on the riverbed.

I started finding sign and small prints and they were just kind of at the edge going in and out a little bit. and they were about 12 inches long, I think those were about 12, 10 to 12. And so I followed those little, and I came upon a place where a deer had walked across the sand riverbed. And when it was about 10, 12 foot out in the open sand, something grabbed it. Didn't leave any prints, but grabbed it. And it drug it back to the bank. And you could see where the feet were just sliding around on the sand because it was elevated, just kicking. And then there was no more deer prints.

it got picked up. There was no prints. It didn't go anywhere from there. This is open, open soft sand, basically. Just wet enough to take a good print. And I thought, my God, you know, there's only one thing that's going to reach out from that distance and just snatch a deer off the riverbed without the deer knowing or whatever. And so, and that had to fit with the big track. So I got a little intimidated then. And then I went a little bit more and I smelled urine real heavy. And I was still not in the riverbed at that point. I was on the bank. And I thought, well, And the ear was near the bank and I thought, I'm going to cross the river here and see what's going on. And as I did, I also, when I hit the river, I also smelled deer.

You know, if you've ever shot a deer, you know what a deer smells like when you clean them. I could smell deer, but I couldn't find it. I actually looked around quite a bit right there. And I could not find anything of it. So I went on down the river and there was a big gray pile of soft dirt that was from some old form of something piling or something way back in the past. and it was just gray dirt, but it was dissimilar to everything else, but it looked really soft. And I thought, well, you know, I can get out of the river and get up on that little hill. It's about five foot high.

And I could get into there a little bit and nothing's going to know on there, you know. And so I did that. I went to a little gray pile and I went up a little bit. There's a couple little concrete pilings there that are only about three foot tall and some little cedar trees, about maybe seven foot tall that are scattered on top. And I got to the back of it. And when I did something in front of me, and this is burst awake probably. I mean, it was it was laying prone, it was horizontal, and it was massive, and it was dark.

And I didn't know it was anything because it was laying under the sunlit tree foliage of the Russian olive. And you can see right through those, but a lot of times they're so dark in there behind the front foliage in the sun. You can't see much. And I thought that was just one of those dark areas as I'm looking, because I looked right at that. You know, I'm scanning for something. and man, it actually didn't go right when I got there. I got there. I knelt down when I stood back up.

It burst into action. And I'm going to tell you, it took me about a month to even try to put words to what that moment right there was like. Because it was like an elephant flipping over in mass. But have you ever seen a crocodile like take a wildebeest in the African shows where they can be underwater and it's an explosion of movement? you don't, I mean, in the Willbees doesn't even have a chance to turn its head, right? That's how fast this was. But it was heavier than a horse, a lot heavier than a horse. And I'm not going to say it was heavy as an elephant, but that's the only, my, the only type of mass that you could pound and flip, that's what your brain can come up with. It was like that mass. But it was so explosively quick that it didn't, didn't. It put me into a sense of shock. Okay. So my legs wanted to run. Like I went into full blown shock. My legs wanted to run. I, like I went into full blown shock. My legs wanted to run. I couldn't I couldn't stop them in a sense, but I did. I didn't go anywhere. I didn't know if I was pissing myself. I actually looked to see. It was, it was that bad. So there this thing is then,

and it's now crouched. It's on all fours, and I can see its mass through the, through the leaf, and as it rolled over, and it's on all fours, and it's still taking up a tremendous amount of space. And I learned, you know, how much space that was when we checked it out. But, and as that happened all of a sudden I heard sound to my left, but only about 40 feet away. Now, this big one was 50, when we measured, it was 57 feet in front of me. Let me tell you, that's way too close. That's three steps. That's way too close. And like 40 feet to my left, I heard something else. I mean, classic, roll, get up and start walking on two feet. But it didn't sound maybe a couple hundred pounds. It's definitely, you know, it was definitely a lot less mass than what was in front of me. And so I'm

thinking, well, and it's walking away from me. So I'm thinking, okay, then now I've got two, obviously a smaller one to my left. So on video, I turn and I go in after the smaller one. And it only made, you know, maybe you can hear it walking on the tape, but it only made, I don't know, maybe eight or ten leaf crunchy footsteps, and then it went dead silent and probably went quad and got quiet. And anyway, and I did hesitate a minute. And then I went in right after it and found his footprint, a couple of them. And it wasn't all that big, like, 12, like I said, of the others I saw. And so I thought, okay, and I looked around and it did confuse me and dumb found me because I thought he should still be within visual range of me.

But of course, they're so good. And he just got, he went around and met the big males, what he did. But he did it so quietly. I never heard all that movement. So I go back up on the hill and I thought, what am I going to do now? I know this. Oh, I got to say right before I went down, the monster big one took off to the north or to my left through the trees and stuff. So I did get to see his legs run through there.

You can hear it take off on the camera. And he starts, he's just plowing through big stuff and just breaking shit as he goes. And he goes about maybe 75 feet and stops. Then I went after the little one. So then I come back and I'm thinking, all right, what now? You know, the little one probably went to join the big one. So all I can do now is go look and see where this big one was. So I just kind of pushed myself, you know, it's that thing where you push yourself a foot.

Okay, nothing happens. you push yourself another foot, nothing happened. So I walked down into there and looked where he had been laying and almost couldn't believe it at first and looked around a little bit. And then I saw, of course, you know, started seeing a sign. And I knew he was only in front of me at that point. I was heading north and along the deal in the trees. And I was back in the trees where he was now. And now opposite the river parallel to it is a dirt bank that now I'm only about,

40 foot from the dirt bank. And there's an opening there. And he couldn't have gone forward without making a really lot big, a lot more crashing than I heard. And so I knew he had turned left. So I kind of tracked him or turned right toward the dirt. You know,

Hill, there was an opening. And I tracked him. And you could see at that point two big prints, the back parts of them. And he had turned to go make that right. And when he did that at speed, he broke the ground about, oh, six or eight.

inches deep and kick knocked it sideways. And I mean, ground so hard, I can't, you cannot dent it with your foot. You can't kick it out. It's impossible. A horse doesn't kick it out. They might scuff it or they dig it up a little, but they don't, they can't do that. But when he turned directions, he actually broke that surface six to eight inches deep and displaced a huge piece and left his heel print there. And then I really knew, oh God, this is him. You know, this is the, this is dad. This is the one we tracked the day before he's here. This is what's going on. And, So I went on through there and I turned left because the dirt wall was there. And there's a little bit of space, but 20, 30 feet opening there.

And to my right, it opens pretty good size. But to my left, it closes up and gets tighter and tighter back to the trees. And sure enough, that's where he turned and went. And when I got around that corner, he was probably quad, off and on quad and up, but he had gone erect at that point and left four, you know, really good prints. And two of the first two were really good. The first one was just blatant where he went from quad to biped. And I looked at it.

And they're 23 inches long. And you can tell on the tape, man, I am tripping. I mean, I'm tripping because I know he's only now that I've progressed north along with him. I know he's only about 40 feet to my left now in the mass of trees that basically I was just in. And then what do you do? You know, so I stayed there. And I kept trying to go forward, but it closed up. up there a little bit and you had to make a left into the trees.

There was kind of a big tunneled out area about eight feet wide and about four foot tall. That's where he went in. And every time I approached closer, something maybe 12, 15 feet through the thick stuff to my left would move toward that direction with me like it was going to meet me at this pinch point. And I know animal behavior. There's nothing does that unless it's going to snatch you at that pinch point. And I'm thinking, what in the world?

So I'd back up and it would back up with me a little bit. And I'd go, man, we got really frustrating. You see it on tape. I mean, it's on, the video is called Waking the Giant. There's two of them. One's with the whole follow-up the next day and investigation and all that. And that follow-up when I actually show you his face and all that stuff. So people can look and understand what I'm talking about.

But so I know that anything that's going to meet you at a pinch point and an ambush point is, that's not a good sign. You know, you don't do that. It should have moved the opposite direction around from me. playing cat and mouse. And it didn't. And later I learned that this was not the big, big one that was making that movement. The big one was about 40 feet back on the video we catch him.

And the other one was George. And that's the one I must have, or George, I believe it was George. And then we have a younger one called Amos. And Amos is the one I saw his feet print. George has like 14 inch feet at this point. And so, but it was George coming around to meet me. And that's weird because I had been around this family group. for years, like eight years.

And I've been around, we've identified individuals based on sighting and video and their, and their scat and their feet print and their handprint. And so I understood who I was dealing with and he's never aggressive. They pitch little pebbles or they whistle and click their teeth or, but they're never aggressive and never feel that. And it felt that way now. And I can only assume that it was because he was with dad, you know, and he's wanting to, you know, dad doesn't like people and he's not going to like people either.

and it's going to be tough guy and this and that. And so it really, it's scared living crap out of me, you know. After a little while, I raised my arm up and I ended up catching the big male was back there. And my arm at full extension, he raises just enough to see it. And he's probably two to three feet higher than my arm at full extension. And then, and he looks at the camera and he squints, it kind of blinks a little bit. And he's only 40 feet in there. And then I go to lower the camera and he raises up and turns in the last part of it.

And he's another two foot taller than that. So he's four to five feet higher than my arm at full extension above my head. And that, that's him. And then I took the SLR camera and I put it up at another spot and did it. And I actually got a picture of half of George's face, which is pretty cool. Can I ask you, because I find it strange that you name them, but do you name them to kind of identify the subject based on prints and is it more or less

just to kind of identify who you're talking about in an area? Yeah, the reason we give them names like that is exactly that. So it's our way of quick reference. And so it's like a number, I guess, in a sense, but they gain kind of a personality

after several years of the same subject, you know, observations of their habits and traits and everything. And that's part of it. Like we call one Jasper, and it's because his foot was so funny shaped when he was small. He kind of grew into it, but he had this huge, long, great toe. And it made his foot look elf-like almost, and he had a pretty narrow heel. And so we called him Jasper, you know.

So, yeah, it's just a way of internally identifying. It's not so much that, no, we don't know them and know their names. You know what I mean, yeah. I get where you're coming from. And I want to ask you, I know there's a lot of areas in New Mexico that are like, a high desert, kind of like a central Oregon, that sort of thing. So there is cover in some areas. My biggest question, and again, you may not be able to answer this, but I'm curious on your opinion, is where do they go? You know, when people have encounters, the creature goes one way,

the person goes the other way, and, you know, we find their tracks, we can get vocalizations, random encounters, but it doesn't seem like anyone can really figure out where do they go and where do they stay, why can't we find them there? You know what I mean? Well, we tend to look at everything from a human point of view, which I learned 30 years ago doesn't get us very far unless you're dealing with a human. So you're talking an animal that can comfortably walk. I'm just saying this is a full-grown male, for instance,

because like our male at GLST, he seldom around, like I saw it said. So where is he when he's not there with the family unit, let's say? he can walk 60 miles in a night comfortably without a problem just to relocate. So you're talking a walking speed of anywhere from 8 to 12 miles an hour. It doesn't take, if he wants to go faster, then it's a lot faster. So if he wants to cover ground and change locations, it's real easy. Now, when we are out in the mountainous region, people think they're covering a lot of ground. Really go get a topo map and put your entire excursion for the day and look at it as a crow flies.

not as a plea blocks because sure your feet traveled a lot of distance because we take a lot of steps per 10 feet you know people take on average about four steps per 10 feet three and a half to four steps so they're taking if when they want to move a step and a half okay so when we look at the distance we're traveling we're thinking how many steps it takes to travel that distance it sure feels like a long ways it doesn't take that many steps for them to travel a long ways um so we have to look relative to them, not relative to us. And when we walk around, we have elevation changes of eight inches to a foot. And then that feels like a step, like up a staircase. Anything bigger than that feels a little weird. Them, it's two to three feet is totally normal. So where we would labor to go up and

down objects and things, that's just stairs to them. It's nothing. It's just they're built for those exact conditions. So travel is far easier and far more efficient. So people tend to look at them, you know, and say, oh, he's still within a half mile. You know, I'm going to go look for him and I'm within this couple of mile area. Man, he could be covering literally a thousand square miles. So that's 100 by 100, right? Or 100 by 10. Okay, that's not that much ground to an animal who can walk 60 or more miles a night comfortably.

Okay, so we have a very small view of where they should be. And that's where we tend to look. Now, what I've found in some of the high mountain, regions, what I'm finding in comparison to the river bottoms and thick, dark, deep areas, where there's like, let's say a constant supply of water or a constant food source, like a certain form of nut or grasses or something that's available year-round, whether on the branch or on the ground. Okay, so that's usually where the family units are, but that's not where the big males hang out. And from what we've seen, anyway, that's all I can tell you from what we've studied in our research is

that the big males seem to just take off and go to high country, big country, you know, a big country where they can do whatever the hell they want to without being, have any interaction or action with human beings. And that's kind of what we've seen. So in the Sandia mountain range, and this is, I know we're going to have to go into a lot more sometime, West, because that's why we got blocked out on the university studies. We actually discovered the evidence of a very big male and males in the San Diego. India mountains above an affluent neighborhood.

And it scared the crap out of the studio owners at the news. And it scared everybody. And so we went through a lot of grief over that. And they shut that entire section of the forest down. And so, but that's the thing is these high mountains, super remote, super rugged, especially if they have obstructions, cliffs, rivers, you know, things like that between them. It seems like the males go up there and hang out together. And then you have the adolescent or transient males that don't,

don't go that far from the family unit that want to be alone. They're grown up. They don't want the hassle and the crap of the family. They could do it on their own. But they don't seem to go very far, maybe five miles or something like that from where the family unit is. And they seem to return quite frequently. And then like I said, whereas like the alpha, you know, these guys just are like, screw the family. I'm going to do my own thing. Yeah, that's really fascinating what you just said there, Robert. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say that before. And I will say in the majority of encounters, a large percentage, not always, but people will run into a female with a child. One, I'm surprised by the behavior they get from the female. They seem to be

more timid when people run into them anyway. Makes me wonder where the female and the younger ones are at. I want to ask you, though, so basically what you're saying is the male parts ways and kind of does his own thing. Oh, he used to come in about during, From October till about February, which is actually when we saw a sign of her having an infant, two different years, a few years apart. And he was there off and on quite a bit then. But even that was where he'd be out for a week before he'd come in or even more. And then we wouldn't hear anything from him down there for only maybe for a couple days.

And he'd bolt again. And so even then, he wasn't down there all that much. And this is when we presume that there was young. because that's when he was killing all the dogs and being aggressive and doing dumb stuff. Yeah, there's absolutely, like GLST, we went in the other day. I was in for 20 minutes and pulled hair, only because I know where they go and I know where they're at and they always crew through their creatures a habit. So they return and cruise through the same little pathways and accesses and stuff.

And I can usually actually find the group. This last year they had a bad drought condition. There was no exposed water. So I'm sure they had to go to a different portion of the. river, but they occupy, you know, 10, 12 miles of that river system. And then they only stay in an area, maybe a quarter mile to a half mile occupation for a week at a time, something like that. They move to another spot and generally not adjacent to where they just were. Because, you know, it's like if you run the game out or you do whatever you're going to do, well, the same game just

moved right there. And if you go right there, it's still hot. So they'll go a few miles down and and occupy for a while. And there are some places where they definitely spend a lot more time than others. There's a huge section of almost impenetrable swamp. And it doesn't sound like it in the high desert, but there is. And it's horrible. And they're in there a lot. I mean, a lot.

So, but, you know, like Wes, we've gone in and found and tracked and found 48 piles of scat in one day. And from all seven of them, you know, defecating together in a group, the main group. and find where they've done that over five to seven days, and it represents about 60 pounds of scat. And that way we can see everywhere they went, and we see what they foraged, which tells us where they went.

If a subject has a bunch of domestic bird seed from a bird feeder in his scat, that we know he left the river bottom and went and raided a bird feeder. Yeah, I don't know how I feel about digging through poop to find answers, but your bird feeder, I get it. I get exactly what you're talking about. And it's a good example. Let me ask you about the tree structures. You know, people run across these tree structures in the woods, and they're bizarre.

It's weird. And I've seen them. And the one that I saw, there's no way five men could have woven this structure together. And it wasn't weather. And I've never actually talked to an eyewitness that has seen them make tree structures. I mean, I've talked to witnesses that have talked about a lot of bizarre behavior that they do. But I don't think I've ever talked to anyone that has seen them make. these structures. And I'm curious, what is your opinion on the tree structures and if they're making

them, why? Yeah, we call it foliage manipulation, right? So there's intentional, non-intentional. So they do it for everything from hunting. Okay, so they'll close gaps. This is one thing they'll do. They'll go to a mountain side and on an angle, they'll close gaps. Or in an open space, they'll lay a tree or branch on the ground. And if you know anything about deer, deer won't walk over at night when they're walking, if there's a line on the ground, they won't step over it. They'll walk around it. So if you continually angle these lines down the hill, you vicariously drive the deer on their own down the hill to a pinch point. And we found where they'll do that, even block gaps to where they keep the deer moving a certain direction, and then they can ambush them. And we've seen that.

It'll usually go into a gully or a tight spot or a pinch point, a little ambush point. So that's one. another one, they'll take large trees and make basically a fence line out of them to where you'll have a line of large trees. And that's exactly what that is. And then they'll at one point or another or several, they'll lean, let's say, what's often is like bleached log poles that don't have any branches or bark on them anymore. And they kind of stand out in the forest a little. They'll lay those or things like it up against a tree on that fence line. And it acts as kind of a gate. So that's a way in and a way out.

And from what we've seen, they expect you to use that. And they don't expect you just to go jump in the fences of logs, let's say. And then as far as like, you know, when you say about things that no one could have done, and I'm trying, for years now, I've been trying to assemble a team to go back into a place that we at about, it's about 8,000 foot elevation that we found were everything. is so massive. I've never even seen photographs of anything like this in anyone's pages on any video anywhere. Things done with 100 foot trees that are three foot thick with a root ball still on them, where they're carrying those around and doing stuff with those, where they've covered the florist floor so thickly that you cannot walk through it.

You can't. You have to either climb up over them or crawl underneath them. And every single small plant and green thing gone up to about, even all the boughs up to about 60 feet high, for a quarter mile circle. And then in the center of that, we did not go down to it. We were about 150 feet from it. What appeared to be a lodge built into a finger of a slope that was made of trees that were 40 to 60 foot,

stacked like a beaver's den, but elongated. And those on top had all the boughs and all, every, all the debris from that quarter mile were laid on top of it. And then it had dirt and stuff thrown up on it with all the green boughs. And I had nine guys. with me and six of them were ex-military of one kind or another

and everybody was in a shock and in a sense of panic. So we didn't even stop to photograph most of that and that's how bad it was because all we said we'll come back, we're more prepared, we'll come back, we're more prepared. It was getting dark on us. It was a, the trail was, the lower trail

was 6.2 miles. We had a total of 11 miles to go to get out. And it was like I said, getting dark and here we are in the middle of what felt like Like, we call it the kill zone, so and the lodge. And so we have found that kind of stuff. And they have those kind of structures. There was a, well, there was a tree woven in.

You see trees woven in perpendicular to the ground. I mean, a parallel to the ground, you know, perpendicular to all the other trees. There was one like that about 40 or 50 foot long, 18 inches thick that wove through six trees so tightly. It bent that tree. The tree was bent a pine tree in between that. You know how much force it takes to bend a tree, you know, like 12 inches thick on one side, 18 on the other? And it was, that's what, that was about 30 feet off the ground.

That's, that's one of the ones that got us because, let alone the carry-ins. So they had been cutting this trail out with chainsaws for a long time. Now the trail's off limits. And there's places where they stacked up trees and the guys would cut it. And then they'd put another tree there. They'd cut it. And there's seven high, you know, where they tried to block the trail with a tree. And they just kept cutting it.

So now you got seven trees. stacked on either side of you with a gap cut in the middle. And then they had one was a root ball with a tree attached. That was about 12 feet tall with the roots and dirt, rocks set right in the middle of the trail where the root ball was in the middle of the trail. You couldn't even climb over it. And so then the crew had forest crew had gone in there and cut those trees that they had laying down everywhere.

They actually cut through those around the root ball. It was so big. They couldn't do anything about it. you know yeah it reminds me i was at the uh the browns property i always talk about here in washington state and that was the first time i'd ever actually seen a tree structure and i know sarah and john didn't put it up because it would have taken 10 sarah and johns to put it up or more and it was just this bizarre structure and i remember uh thinking why in the world would you put this up like i don't i don't get the why they would do this um and it wasn't until i got

inside of it that I realized, I can sit and watch the whole backside of the house, the backyard. I can basically watch the house sitting inside of this and no one would ever know I was there. It was beyond creepy. So what you're saying, Robert, is you think that they make these tree structures for different reasons, in your opinion. Oh, yeah. I mean, all kinds of stuff. And we've followed.

So you'll have like one bleached pole leaned against a tree, right? Well, you can usually, if you really look from there or not too far away, there will be another one. If you go to that one, you'll from somewhere from that one or close, not too far away, there's another one. And you can go one of those to another one, to another one to another one. So, I mean, they mark trails. That's how we track them. They mark trails for their other friends, subjects, clan member, whatever, to come follow. So when you learn how to follow, when you learn how they mark the trails, then you can follow them too.

See, so when we go out, that's what we do. And I also use satellite and stuff. And I look at the foliage for how their activity has affected the foliage. See, that's another research process that we do that I don't tell everybody. But you can actually see their paths to travel into the trees because trees, trees react to everything. So if an animal walks through a certain area long enough, the trees will grow that way in a pattern. So you can look from high altitude and see these routes of travel. Once you get used to him, you realize, oh, wow, he's going always on this ridge that you can't get to him from this highway.

And then he's going over to this huge plot of acorns over here. Then he's skipping over to this draw that's the farthest away from anybody in the deepest. You know what I see what I'm saying? So you can actually see them go from strategic, strategic, strategic all the way through. And so, you know, it's just one of the ways we track them. But, you know, on the family units, Mama and them almost tracks, almost marks nervously. Like she's always expecting the mail to come in and she's always going to mark where she is. So they mark daily.

And so you can find out exactly where the group is within the quarter mile or whatever, exactly where they're at because they're going to leave sign that day. and when you learn how to find these, then, and understand what they are, then you can actually find where they're feeding that day or whatever. And then if that area in itself, they'll make a rubbing post. So when they moved into that area, they're going to be in, she'll make one rubbing post on the outside of it. And that will usually be twisted violently.

And then often she'll rub it. So you'll get skin and hair and everything else to be all jammed into that twist where they've twisted it. Yeah, that's very intriguing. I got to have you back for part two, Robert. I know we're kind of getting low on time. The audit, you know, people generally check out after about an hour, hour and a half. But I have to ask you, after all the years of doing this, what is one behavior or what's kind of the top behavior you've seen that shocked you?

I mean, just really surprised you that they did what they did. First one probably that actually did shock me was the harvesting of blood. So there's a couple different methods, and we've seen it several times. Once was a dog, we slashed its throat, drank all the blood out of it, threw it on the ground in the driveway of the people's place. Another one that is a big impact is when the subject we call George and the subject we call Amos, and we assume George led this whole thing, broke into a family farm, got into their goat enclosure, their chicken enclosure, killed all their goats.

There were six or seven. everyone but one was a clean twist the neck kill it puncture the carotid and the femoral artery and then drain them and then but one of them apparently this is what from what we saw amos was doing was just smaller younger and less experienced had a hard time with it and ended up biting it in the skull and to kill it and it was a nasty death that was the only one that was really bad but yeah that was the most surprising thing and what they had done is after four or five days of extreme cold weather zero temperatures, 35 mile an hour wind, sleep, or I mean, I'm a frozen fog and hail and all kinds other shit came with that.

We had an ice storm basically. So like a four or five day ice storm. And then right after that, they did this. And they didn't take a single body with them. And then they returned right back down to the group. And I think that was probably one of the strangest behaviors that was most surprising was the bloodletting. And it's, I mean, there's lots of tribes that do it.

It's not something that's undone. So, and that's what I've talked to several doctors about it. And they've actually told me that, well, the freezing cold weather, when you're exposed to it, what you're going to need directly afterwards, the two primary things are iron and salt, period. And they said, so what it sounds like to me is they would just went for a source of known iron and salt. And then only through supposition and how we've seen them act, because they're not that far from habitation, ranches and things, is that they don't mess as a whole. They don't mess with them. The big one don't mess with them. The mama, the other ones, they just don't mess with any of the females.

Don't go out and do anything. But the young males are cantankerous. So they do. You know, they do. They visit farms. They raid farms. They take animals every once in a while. You know, they cleaned out this guy's birds, all of his birds, which is a bummer, all his geese and all his stuff.

But I know he got to see one of them. I got a feeling it was Amos by the size description. He said it moved like a cat on all fours. When it turned and looked at him, it had a smile that literally looked like it went from ear to ear. And that's a primate fear response. You know, so but, but yeah, the younger seem to raid places and the older ones actually don't. So I have a feeling when they did the goats, they didn't take anything back because it's probably a bad idea. I think they're absolutely as wise as us and knowing that if you did that, you're going to lead trouble home.

I doubt they're supposed to do it because they just don't as a whole, you know. Yeah, and I've never heard anyone say that before. There's a lot of accounts of these things going on farms and just killing, you know, livestock, but they don't take anything. And I've always wondered, you know, is it anger? Is it why would they do that? And when you were first talking about the whole blood thing, I was like, I don't know about this. But, you know, when you explain it, it actually makes sense. It's for nutrients you normally wouldn't get in an extreme cold weather.

I want to ask you, you know, through all of your years of spinning out in the middle of nowhere, whether it's treasure hunting or looking for these creatures, you know, I always tell people you can run into more than just Sasquatch out there. And I'm curious, what's the weirdest entity alien, you know, it could be whatever. what's the most bizarre thing that you've run into while being out out there in the woods? Well, the most bizarre didn't happen actually out there. But I have had some really crazy stuff occur out and about, yeah, so, orbs, you know, that's a fact of just being out there and being observant enough. You're going to see lights.

You're going to see lights cruising through the woods. And that's all part of our natural existence of where it's really out there, to be honest with you. It doesn't even have to have anything to do with. To be honest with you, the worst thing was I had my back broke by a ghost when I was again 14. So and really, really tore me up really, really bad. And I've encountered spirits like that out there, you know, especially on ancient, ancient sites that are high value or high whatever, you know, haunted isn't even a word for it. You know, we've had to walk off our crew in a daze and walk them off site, you know, because all of a sudden they just start screaming at everyone and they're mad and they're just going bananas.

Like, where in hell hell this come from, you know? And so people that aren't tough-minded, I've seen people wig out, you know, and we all feel it. We all know it's there, you know, but some people would kind of be taken by it. And, yeah, totally lose it. But everything from military interference to UFO. interference. We've had patchy helicopters blow the hell out of our cliff. We were working. We've had, you know, all the above, I guess. It's going to take an awful lot to try to pick one out,

Wes. Yeah, there's definitely a lot of weird things you can run into out there in the woods. And I always tell people, you know, demons don't just live in haunted homes. You can run into them out in the forest, too, as well. Was there a time where you actually saw the entity? We've seen things that you, what you'd call, like shadow people. Like snow on a TV set, except it's black and it's in your way and you can't see through it. Not Bigfoot. They weren't Bigfoot. I don't know what those are.

We've had alien interaction, but that's not anything that's, it's so difficult to recall. Like I'm not standing there looking at an alien, you know what I mean? Listening to them and being able to look at that direction and not see them all you see. Like I said, snow on a TV set. But, you know, they're there. You just saw the craft 20 minutes ago and now something's running around. You can hear it. got the weirdest feeling in the world, but every time you look at it, you can't make it out.

You know, we've had that. Yeah, I've actually had a few people run into that weird black shadow figure. And the strange part is a lot of times it's in the shape of a Sasquatch, but it's kind of how you describe it, Robert. It's distortion in the air. It's just black. I want to ask you, Robert, I know you had an encounter when you were 14 in Washington State where one of these creatures actually screamed at you.

And your family was pretty open about it. I mean, they knew these creatures existed. So it wasn't, it was kind of, you know, it's Washington State. So people are pretty much open about it here. And then we go to your treasure hunting and then, you know, now you're really looking into them. I'm curious, did your opinion change as far as, as far as what they are? I think most people start out with the, it's an ape, which makes the most sense. But did your opinion as far as what these?

creatures are, did it change over the years? Like I said, because of the way I was when a child, I never wanted to be misled. And it was important to me, even at that time, whenever I formed a conclusion, I almost felt guilty. And I did that my entire life. And because I had to look back and go, do I know that? You know, do I know that? And the things I didn't actually know, I just left it out. And so early on, I really didn't form a conclusion about it being, in a sense, one way or another. I mean, it's like six years old when I actually got. pissed off and wanted to start finding truth. So, and that may seem awful young, but that's, that's when I saw the first in search of, I think, or no, I think we saw in search of about 10,

but when we started hearing all the family stories and stuff. And then I guess around 10 years old, it locked in. Because when I saw the show in search of, that was it, you know, because I want to know. And so as far as forming an early opinion goes, I never felt even as a child or because the stories we heard like in Canada or the Native American families we knew in New Mexico or the Spanish families we knew, they didn't really relate anything that was similar to a monkey and habits, behavior, or anything else. It was more of a forest people. Now, not that it was said human or anything like that at all, but for some reason, the idea of solidifying either way didn't seem to come into it because they were just a fact to being out there and here's how they are and here's what they look like. So, but later, I have to say that was one of the things even in, 2010 that made me come out and come forward and go, okay, look, you know, we're going to dump some bigfoot stuff and we'll start applying our techniques and our technology and our discipline into this and let's see what we can get to. That derived from an opinion that it was going to be either a solid ape or non-human ancestor at best, even if it's, you know, like a human, whatever.

So it was interesting to me that they went that direction because I didn't see any semblance in in the stories and in witness behavior or anything else as we got going in this that led me to the conclusion it would be of just a big eight. And then as the years have progressed, certainly the type of research we conduct and the time spent in the field with them and whatever. And I guess maybe we are probably quite a bit different in our approach. has led to observations that has allowed us to form conclusions that are based on information. You know, they're informed conclusions. They're not our opinion, our opinion based. And those all point to some type of people. I mean, one of the reasons I think we're successful in what we do is we've always, now I'm going to back up a little bit. I see most animals is fully sentient. I don't see animals, just animals. So I've been able to train everything from lizards,

to whatever. I mean, mice, anything. And you don't train them. Just make friends with them. They do what you want, whatever. But everything is sentient. So when you come from that point of view, you expect this beast to be sentient as well,

whether it is like a gorilla or it is like a man. But as we approached it even on that level, what we got back and what we continually observed with something far more than anything that, you know, you would call a great eight. And far closer to, what you would call a people, whether human or not. And now, of course, you know, we've been involved in all three major studies in some level

or another. Most people only know about two major DNA studies done. The third did not get finalized for some pretty bad political reasons. But now, you know, seeing everything we've seen in conclusion, I would, you know, I'd go to human, you know, because it's not just, it's not just what we've learned from them. It's also what I've learned in research over these years since 2010. What could they be? What would they be?

Where do they actually fit? And, you know, I can read a paragraph directly from the latest current curriculum in anthropology that closes this question up. And, of course, Teres, my love, is taking anthropology right now. She's always been into primates. And, you know, she's known as Guerrilla Girl or whatever. and has been for a long time, you know, because she's been into guerrillas and studied them and everything. And so in this recent anthropological course that she's doing, they have a full page dedicated to Bigfoot.

And it's interesting what it points out because it reminds us. I mean, for one, the terminology has changed. This is all something we've also been researching over the last couple of years. So what a hominin is and a hominidid is and how the family hominidid a day. split and where it went. And it's funny because when we hear even the pros on TV on the on the docs and everything and they're talking the terminology, whether it's a hominid, a hominid, whatever, this is, it's in a sense it's wordplay because the modern terminology has been altered. And so what textbooks from four or five years ago show is not what textbooks teach today. And so when we

look at the terminology they're using, it's a wordplay. And it's interesting because they can make a statement or conclusion, and it's safe either way. So it doesn't necessarily mean what we think it does. And for example, you can say that a human is a hominin, but it's not a hominid, because the hominids stop at the arrains. So at the highest evolved great ape, what goes on from down the other divergent tree that led to humans are all known as hominin. But you can, you can, you can, can call a human a hominid in the pretense that it goes on the primate tree. Either one is actually correct for a human, but you can only call a great ape a hominid because it didn't lead to the humans. Yes. It's not human. Yes, it's not human. And this is something that gets us. So if we talk

about gigapithecus and we say, okay, it's a great ape. And there's no argument about giganticophagus was what they call the largest great ape, okay, which is. And we say, is really arrogant because we don't know what's in the fossil record. It's a horrible, horrible representation of what existed. You know, there's only been one jaw fragment of a chimpanzee that's been fossilized ever found, you know, 1.5 million year old. And we know through the genetic tree, we assume they're older than that. But there's like the point being is there's been only one fossil fragment of the tens of millions of chimpanzees that have lived in that much time in 1.5 million years. We only have one tiny,

jog fragment. If we didn't have that and they had gone extinct 300 years ago, we would have never known they existed, but it was sworn they never existed, and they might have been myth. When we look at these things, this fossil representation is a horrible way to look at it. But what we notice in the new curriculum, and I can actually read you just a real quick excerpt here, it says, of the approximately 500 species of primates, humans are the only one that is bipedal. Okay. Now, we'll just start. That's a simple sentence. And this is actually coming from through the lens of anthropology and introduction to human evolution and culture. Okay.

Published by the University of Toronto Press. That's our modern cricket. Okay. Now, if we look at 500 species of primates, okay, and we are the only one that is bipedal. Okay, that's why the hominin tree needed to be created because we aren't like any other primate in that trait. But this is interesting. What is the main trait of a Bigfoot, a Sasquatch, Sabbe, whatever. What are the main trait that we note of them is their bipedalism?

They are 100% comfortable as a biped. They're not a quadruped that goes erect. They're a biped that goes quad. Their primary source of easy, efficient locomotion over any length of distance is bipedal. So this brings us to another paragraph. And I'll wrap this up. If you have any more questions, that could be. wrap this up on this because this is about the giganticus and the Bigfoot, this entire page.

And if anyone finds this, it's actually Box 2.5 is assessing Bigfoot if they ever find that publication. They can read it. And it talks about Gigantopithecus and Bigfoot in comparison. Now, this is the way they close it. Now, anyone that knows this comes from my treasure days. If I want to decode, let's say there's a hidden code inside of a manuscript. Okay. So whatever section it's in, I go to the last paragraph and I read the last three sentences and I read them in reverse. And that usually tells me it's a closing paragraph. It usually tells me in just everything that's ahead of it and it gives me a better way of decoding. So I'll read the last paragraph on this page because this closes it, like a legal document, whatever the last paragraph says is actually wraps the whole document.

It says, believers should be aware that if they do cite a Bigfoot, they should probably leave it alone. It probably isn't a large human-like ape. If it exists, it is probably a human who wants to be left alone. And no one should do it harm. Recall that a primate is bipedal, as Bigfoot is typically reported to be. It is classified as human. Okay. So what's going on with the pros, right? They're sitting here telling us that there's a gigantic antipithecus, the largest great ape, 100% great ape, the largest one that ever lived. And it came over here on the Lamb Bridge. It's now what we're seeing as a Bigfoot. So either it has evolved in 10,000 years from a quadruped ape into a biped human, right? Or it's not what we're looking at, period. There's no room for anything else.

because and under their determination, they would be now classifying giganapithecus as a human. You see what I'm saying? Because if it's a primate and it's fully bipedal, it's a human like it or not. So most people don't know when they talk about, oh, Dinozovin or Hidaliburgensis or Neanderthalus and they bred with humans. No, no, no, no. They throw out the word modern. They're not paying any attention. So whenever it's usually delivered to them, it said modern humans.

They are humans by every definition. Okay, they're early humans. This goes all the way back to Lucy. This goes homo florencis. There is such a wide variety of humans. It's ridiculous. But there's not a wide variety of chromagra. There's not a wide variety of modern humans.

Okay, so what would be under any common sense of logic, since there is a lot of pre-modern human ancestors that were human, and they were fully bipedal. And then there's the line of great apes, which none of them were ever bipedal. Okay, and we're discovering new humans all the time, like Denisovan, like Homo forensis, what is more likely that this thing is? And why would any academic professional go out on a limb and swing toward, no pun intended,

giganticus, because it's a fully bipedal, fully erect. The only best evidence we have, and this comes right out of the mouth of the same person who thinks it's a giganticopithecus, is that they use the only no good video

that shows them fully bipedal, okay, to say that. Well, you can't say it's a great ape then. Do you see there's a problem here? Why are they going out of limb and maintaining grade eight. Why? We can, every single thing we see, all the videos, I mean, how many videos of it where it's quad? Yeah, you're right. I mean, most of the videos that people capture, these things are upright running around on two legs. I think the major problem you run into

with the theory of gigantic antiphygous is science has come to a lot of conclusions based on a couple teeth and a jawbone and they're telling you everything about this great ape. Well, it's not even a complete jawbone. So they're going to tell me where, and I understand, I understand morphology. And I'm not a pro, but I'm not stupid at all. I can learn as much as anyone else, trust me. And when they show their reasoning for even where the head set on the shoulders or set on the vertebral column. Okay, so they want to, they went the location here and they were a location there to show that this thing was bipedal.

Well, then it means it wasn't a grade eight. Now, no scientists that thinks you understand the terminology, it would ever make that claim because he knows he'd be sticking his foot in his mouth, but they're relying on the fact that the general public doesn't know what the terminology means. They don't know the difference. And I think that's pretty important because it signifies something. It signifies why would he speak down to the general population in a manner that is self-contradictory? Yeah, I think that they do that because it's safe. it's safe for academia to go, well, it's gigantic antipithecus because it makes the most sense, I guess, from a scientific point of view. But I don't disagree with you. I think that there's

major problems and flaws with the giganto theory that it falls apart when you really start looking into it. And I struggle with the, they're human, the whole human thing. And I could go off for the next hour and into ancient Hebrew text and bore everyone with. And I'm bored everyone with, all sorts of things with regard to ancient, the first humans. But I just struggle with it because I think that we're unique, but you're right. You know, with these creatures, they do seem to have a language. In a lot of cases, they do look very human-like, but there's situations to where they also sound very animalistic and act very animalistic to as well. I guess I just struggle with the human thing because of the, I'm getting caught up on verbiage.

when they study the remains of homohydropagensis, which they have a lot more remains than they do, some of the others, they note that the voice would have been able to go much higher, much lower than ours, and their hearing would have been able to go much higher and much lower than ours, and that they would have been capable of articulating

every sound we can make, period, and probably a wider variety. Now, when, and I want to remind you again, it's like when you say, well, it's tough to go to human because I think we're unique, but wait, human. Remember, human doesn't mean modern human. Okay, Neanderthal was human. Denisovin was human, homo hydrogensis is human. I get to very much. Astralopithecus was human, Florinthus was all humans. So that's where they love to draw the imaginary line because that

keeps it in the eight category. But people don't realize is there's more than enough room, more than enough to fit it into the human category. And not only that, by any modern scientific interpretation, it is a human. There's no way you can call it one of the great apes because it doesn't have the morphology, it doesn't have any of the habits or traits of the great ape, but it does the early human. Now, something I want to point out as well is there's just a lot of tomfoolery that needs to be pointed out. One of these things is they show us a photograph of a gigantic antipithecus molar, correct? Of which several of these have been turned, actually many in China over time. They used to crush them up for their little magic stuffs.

So, and they were lucky to get that one before someone did it. The thing is, I want to point out is go look at how, at a denisovin tooth. Look at the molar of a denisovin. You're going to flip. It's the same size. So, admittingly, admittingly, what we see in the gigantic antipaticus skeleton, all, it is nine foot, nine foot, nine foot. But if you go study science, what they talk about,

that isn't nine foot. It's 10 to 12 foot on the size of a gigantic antithicus of fully erect. Okay. So when we look at a Denisovan molar, it's bigger than twice the size of a modern human. Okay, it came from a being twice the size of a modern human, but it's a human. Now, don't let them kid you and say, oh, yeah, they were slightly more larger and more robust. Man, the molar's the same size as that of a giganticopithecus. So why they keep leaning to the other, I have no clue. I mean, none because the DNA, the factors in the DNA don't line up with anything in the known primate tree. So the way this works is you're going to find evidence of the ancient primate ancestor.

If it wasn't a ring, if it was a gorilla, if it was a chimp, which all these things evolved at different forms and times. if it was any of those we would see it because that's a known primate. So giganapithecus comes off a known tree for everything they can factor so far. It's not, it is, it's one that doesn't exist anymore, but it's not, it's not, it comes off the orang tree because that was the last to develop under on the primate evolutionary tree. You see what I'm saying? But, but all these other prehumans, or pre modern humans, I should say, they didn't come from that tree.

They came from a different tree, which, which, so the, sure, the progenitor is not going to be known and a Bigfoot. If this species predates the others we've looked at. Yeah, it's definitely a well thought out argument. And I really like your take on it, Robert. You know, there's so many things we didn't even get a chance to even talk about. Would you come back for our part two? I'd love to join you. Yeah, I've had a blast.

Thanks. Yeah, I had a blast having you on, Robert. and actually learned some thanks. I really appreciate you coming on, man, and I can't wait to do a part two with you. But thank you so much for taking the time, and thank you so much for coming on. No, it's my pleasure. The whole point is to just get the word out there without bias. And I appreciate the platform to do that. I mean, it means more to me than you know. More to us, I should say, than you know. Anytime. Thanks again. And that's it for tonight.

Everyone, remember if you've had an encounter, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at. Sasquatch Chronicles.com. If you get a chance to check out Sasquatch Chronicles.com, you can become a member and get additional shows. Until next time, everyone.