Sasquatch Chronicles - SC EP:769 Wildlife Biologist Shoots Dogman

Episode Date: June 26, 2021

Matt writes "Back in 2019 I had an encounter and actually shot what I believe is commonly referred to as the Michigan dogman." Spoke to the Matt and he works for the government. He said he thought it was a huge wolf. He watched it from a distance and noticed it was stalking him. The witness decided to shoot it. He said "I know I hit it in the head. It shook like it had been hit hard in the head, that's when the strangest thing happened. It stood up on two legs, like a man. I was in shock."

But I caught sight of it again directly in front of me, and this time it had crossed the game trail that was 25 yards out from me. And it was probably 25 to 30 feet in front of me. So at this point, it hits me like, that's a wolf. I'm looking at this thing, and I realized this is displaying every characteristic of a stalk. you know, I'm getting stalked by a wolf. This thing's creeping up on me. So drew my pistol, I carry a 45. When I squeezed off the round, I hit it.

Because it jerked its head to the left, gave its head a little shake, and then slowly looked right back up, like right in my direction. There's no way I just hit something in the head with a 45 and it just shrugged it off. And I just jumped up and just kind of yelled, screamed. The second I got done yelling, it stood up.

It looked like somebody was bent over and had their head in the window of the deer blind. It either heard me or smelt me, and he pulled his head out of the tent and stood straight up. That shocked me. They don't make people that big. The way it moved, almost as if it was gliding across the beach. I've never seen anything move like that in my life. They were screaming at each other in gibberish. It sounded like a language, and they were chuntering away back and forwards, back and forwards, back and forwards.

I know what a bear looks like, and there is no way on this planet, but what I saw were bears. Jesus, get somebody out here. What's going on now, sir? That son of a bitch is about six foot nine, I don't know. Do you see him now, sir? Yes, I'm looking right in. Uh-uh. This is Tina from Athens, Georgia, and you're listening to Sasquatch Chronicles.

Welcome to the show, everyone. Thanks for being here tonight. Got a great show plan for you. We're going to be going to Michigan tonight, and we're going to be chatting with Matt. And Matt is actually a wildlife biologist out there in Michigan. and he ran into a strange wolf. He thought it was a wolf. And then later he realized it, it really wasn't a wolf.

And it's kind of cool to talk to Matt because, you know, he's run into pretty much everything out there being a wildlife biologist. And seeing this creature really changed his life. If you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. And if you get a chance to check out Sasquatch Chronicles.com, you can get a chance to check out Sasquatch Chronicles.com, you can become a member and get additional shows. Let's jump into it tonight. I want to welcome Matt to the show.

Matt, thanks for coming on. Thanks, Wes. Thanks for having me. Yeah, I really appreciate you being here, Matt. And I know your encounter took place in Michigan back in 2019. If you would, for the audience, kind of give us a background. What is it that you do for a living? Yeah, so I'm currently a wildlife biologist stationed up in the upper

Peninsula working with the Department of Natural Resources via DNR as it's commonly referred to in Michigan. My primary role with them right now is tracking, tagging, and monitoring the larger predator population in the UP. So primarily wolves, bears, and cougars. So I spend the majority of my time either in the woods actually tracking, tranking, and then collaring or tagging these animals. And then I send all of my data back to one of our field offices in the UP.

And they do what they need to do with that data. And I move on. So that's my primary role currently right now. So I don't have a desk or an office. My office is the woods. Very cool. And I appreciate sharing that with the audience, Matt. Kind of give you a background on where you're at prior to seeing what you saw.

If you would, would you just kind of start from the beginning? Kind of where did all this happen? Okay, so I currently own 380 acres in the heart of the Hiawatha National Forest in the UP. That land was given to me by my grandfather when he passed away. He inherited that land from his dad. It's been in their family for generations. he's been taking me up there since I was like six years old. So I'm extremely familiar with this property.

When I'm working in the UP, that's where I stay. I'm up there about nine months out of the year. So I know this property, you know, like the back of my hand, like I said, I've been going up there since I was about six years old, and I've made it my primary residence currently. I do have a residence down in the lower peninsula as well, but I switched, moved everything up there when I took the position in the UP. This incident occurred back opening day of bow season in 2019.

As I like to get out in the woods, and I have three or four spots that I have set up where I'm always successful. I always take game, always take deer. This particular day I got up. It's opening day. I wasn't expecting to take one. I typically don't opening day. I'll let a few pass just because it's opening day,

and I don't want to fill my tag that quick. So I get out there about 5 a.m. And I like getting out there when it's dark, putting on my headlamp, walking in, and then watching kind of the woods wake up. Birds coming out, squirrel, rats, I really enjoy that. That's just kind of my happy place. And Wes, you said you were a hunter,

and so I think you can kind of picture this into any of the other hunters out there. There's about a 30 to 40 minute window right before the sun comes up where everything is just kind of gray. Everything is muted. You see a tree, but you don't necessarily see that it's green. And it's fall, so everything is already kind of dead and dying anyways.

And so the light hasn't hit it yet, and it's just, it's kind of gray. So I'm positioned about 35 yards back from a ridge line. And off to my left, a game trail runs up the ridge, and then about 25 yards in front of me. it crosses right where I have where I'm set up. I'm watching this ridgeline. It's kind of gray. The sun hasn't quite peaked yet.

It's not legal shooting hours. And off to my left, I noticed this kind of a black mass just kind of peeking over the ridge line. And my initial thought was, holy cow, that is a huge bobcat. We have bobcats in Michigan. and they're all over the place. But this one was 35 yards back, and the most distinguishing feature that I could see were the ears. If anybody's seen a bobcat before,

they have very pointed ears, kind of smaller, but very pointed ears. Wolves don't have that, bears don't have that, cougars don't have that. These were characteristically bobcat ears. So I'm 35, you know, 35, 40 yards back, and the fact that I can pick out these ears, that's a, you know, to me, that's a big bobcat.

I'm kind of watching it and it kind of disappears, you know, in some pine trees and it just kind of, the underbrush and I kind of thought to myself, geez, I hope that comes a little closer so I can get a good look at this bobcat. Figured it was gone. So about 10 minutes later, again, I saw it kind of just very slowly move into my field of view. And I'm looking at this and I'm going, that's not a bobcat. That's too big to be a bobcat,

but those are not the ears of a wolf. Those are not the ears of a cougar, and it's too low to the ground to be a bear, and those aren't bear's ears anyways. And again, as I'm looking at it, it's just kind of a shape. I can't, it's, I'm looking at it through some, you know,

underbrush and foliage, and I'm just, I'm looking at this thing, and I'm going, And first of all, that's black. Whatever this is, it is jet black. And those ears, those ears are what kept bugging me. So again, it just, it kind of, it disappeared into a little,

I don't want to say pine grove, but there's like three or four, um, little like pine tree saplings that I kind of, I kind of lost it, lost it in. And about five minutes later, it kind of, I don't want to say like emerge, but I caught sight of it again directly in front of me, and this time it had crossed the game trail. I was 25 yards out from me, and it was probably 25 to 30 feet in front of me.

So at this point, it hits me like, that's a wolf. There are black wolves around Michigan, primarily has gray wolves. There have been some black wolves seen in Michigan. Black wolves tend to be larger, and they hunt alone. They don't, like, they typically don't run with the pack. They're solo hunters. So my first impression was I could see the shoulders and I could see the face,

but it was a wolf. And its muzzle looked a little, the muzzle looked a little longer, and the ears again, Wes, I'm going to keep coming back to the ears, because the ears were driving me nuts this whole time. I wasn't thinking cryptid, wasn't thinking werewolf, wasn't thinking any of that. I've spent years in the woods, and I have never come across anything

that would lead me to believe there was something in Northern Michigan. Now, not saying I don't believe everybody who's seen it because there are too many reports for me to just shrug it off. Personally, I just had never seen, heard, felt, anything that would even lead me to think, oh, that was a cryptid or that was a Sasquatch or whatever. So I'm looking at this thing and I realized this is displaying every characteristic of a stock.

This thing knows I'm here. It's staying out of sight. I haven't heard a thing, not a twig, not a rustle of a leaf, like nothing. It has been dead silent. And when I said dead silent, like, there's birds turp in overhead. Like, it's not like that eerie, like, everything leaves the forest. Like, that's, again, why I wasn't thinking cryptid. I always thought if I have a cryptid experience, the sun's going to go, like,

it was going to be a big spectacle. This to me was, you know, I'm getting stalked by a wolf. You know, this thing's creeping up on me. So, again, it's 25, maybe 30 feet away, about two feet off the ground, hunched real low. So at that point, I just, okay, so I drew my pistol. I carry a 45. In Michigan, you don't really need anything bigger than that.

I'm not going to carry a hand cannon or, you know, a 44 or a 500 mag. If I'm going to shoot something, I want something that I can shoot, and if I need follow-up shots, I can accurately take follow-up shots. So I simply enholstered it and kind of put it in my lap. I'm like, okay, this is kind of cool. You know, I'm getting up close. I'm seeing, you know, stuff that I haven't seen since college. As long as this thing just kind of backs away and keeps its distance, we're fine.

And you know what? I'm going to leave the woods and tell my supervisors about it back at the office. So at this point, it starts, like, getting a little lower and still creeping forward. Now, I still, like, I couldn't make out arms or legs or shoulders, but I could see the head and I could, I guess I could see the shoulders, but I still couldn't make out exactly what this was. So at this point, I'm like, okay, I don't like this.

This doesn't seem to be backing down. That's when I kind of got this weird feeling in my gut. Like, I'm up here in the middle of nowhere. Nobody really knows where I'm hunting. My nearest neighbor is probably 30 miles away. Work knows I'm hunting. but I'm off for three weeks to hunt because that's what I do every year. You know, if something happens, I'm going to be out here forever and no one's going to find me.

My parents won't know what's going on, my siblings. So at that point, I decided, okay, you know what, I'm going to put this thing down, I'm going to drag it out of here. I'm going to call up my local conservation officer, call up somebody let, hey, this is what happened, this is where it happened. If it's my life or his life, I'm sorry, but it's going to be their life every single time.

Yeah. So bring the gun up, get it in my sights, squeeze off around. When I squeezed off the round, I hit it because it jerked its head to the left, gave its head a little shake,

and then slowly looked right back up like right in my direction. So if you've ever seen a judge, dog like run into a sliding glass door, which kind of steps back a little dazed and shakes his head and just kind of walks off. That's what this reminded me off. Like, that phased it, but didn't do anything to, like, stop it from coming. And at that point, I was, maybe I winged it. Did I miss it? Did it, like, there's no way I just hit something in the head of the 45 and it just shrugged it off. At that point, I decided to try what is typically referred to as an intimidation

display. So wolves do it. Bears do it when they stand up on their hind legs and growl. Wolves will get real low and show their teeth. Those are intimidation displays. They're not necessarily, I mean, they're aggressive, but that doesn't mean the animal is about to charge you. All that really shows is keep coming forward and things are going to get ugly. Most of the time, If you start back and away, they're going to back away and they're going to leave. So I was like, okay, well, this is clearly a predator. It's an apex predator. It's probably never had anything stand up to it and be aggressive towards it.

Usually they turn and run. So at that point, I jumped off off of my seat and just like yelled at it, never taking it out of the sight of my pistol. I've got this thing dialed in and I just jumped up and just kind of yelled, screamed. The second I got done yelling, it stood up. And it didn't stand up in like the traditional sense of the word. Like it didn't push off the ground with its front legs and kind of, you know, lift itself up.

It was like that classic scene in the movie Nosferatu where all of a sudden the vampire just kind of of like stands up out of the coffin. Like this thing was just all of a sudden just like up. And I only looked at it for about 10 seconds

before I shot again, but in those 10 seconds I noticed it had an extremely broad shoulders, a really broad chest, and its arms were really skinny. They looked really weak

and they were really long. Like they hung down almost to like his knees. And I say a he, it could have been a female. I didn't see genitalia. Typically you won't on these type of canids. But

it just, it stood up. And I kind of, this isn't happening. Okay, like we're done. Squeezed off two more. hit it in its chest. And I know I hit it in its chest

because you could see where the rounds hit and it kind of like ruffled the fur. And it like took a small step back to kind of brace itself. So at that point it looked back up at me and slowly, slowly sank back down to the ground, back to all fours. And just slowly backed away into the brush

and that was it. It was not like your typical, I've heard plenty of your dog man stories and a lot of people compare them to Anubis. This was not anything like that. The only thing about this that had like a human characteristic was that it had broad shoulders,

a broad chest, and then it like tapered down to his waist. Like you see on like really fit, not necessarily like bodybuilders, but guys who are in really good shoulders, shape, broad shoulders, broad chest, tapers a bit to the waist. That was the only thing about this that I could say look even remotely human. Everything else was completely, I mean, if I tell you, close your eyes, picture a werewolf.

I mean, that's, and it sounds dumb to say, but less, that's what it was. That's what I saw. That's what I shocked. Yeah, I'm fascinated by your encounter, Matt. And, you know, being a wildlife biologist, I mean, you're out there all the time. You know the predators. You know the non-preditors. And then you run into this thing.

I mean, you're an educated, this is what you went to school for. And now you're running into this thing you've never seen before. I want to ask you, I mean, what did you think it was? A 45 bullet going down range is 230 grain. It's a lot of lead going down range. You'd think you'd put it down hitting it. But what was kind of going through your mind at that moment? Um, honestly, Wes, I don't know. Um, again, the first, the first shot, you know, I was, I might have missed it. I'm not to, you know, winged it. I might have, you know, maybe it was an underpowered round. And I mean, you take a 45 ACP, go out to Africa and shoot a water buffalo with it. It's going to laugh at you. You know, a 45 is a big projectile, but it's, you know, a 45 is a big projectile, but it's, you know, it's,

In terms of velocity, it's moving very slow compared to other rounds. Yeah, I'm sure if one hit my head, it would blow out the side of my head. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And that was one of the big things that, like, when I did eventually leave the woods, I just, I, what was that? Like, I kind of didn't believe myself for like a day and a half. You fell asleep. You were lucid dreaming. You know, as hunters, I think we can all say, hey, we've all fallen asleep in the stand or in the blind or on the ground. But, no, I had three rounds missing from my magazine when I got back.

Yeah, I can't explain. I can't explain that away. I can't. I don't have an explanation for it. There's nothing that I can say that would even remotely come close to explaining how something, you know, I'm not going to say small because it probably stood about seven, seven and a half feet. Like it was big, but you shoot a deer with a 45 ACP,

it's going to go down. You know, you shoot a bear in the head, probably going to go down. Those are decently big animals. So, yeah, so I,

that explanation, I just, I don't know. Yeah, strange. Can I ask you real quick, Matt, did the creature have a tail?

I, didn't notice one. And to be honest, I wasn't really looking. I was more, I was more concerned about me, I guess, you know, I noticed what I noticed in those, you know, those 10 seconds before my mind goes, okay, squeeze, squeeze, you know, and so I've always told people, you know, hey, if you want to practice, and I've told one other person about this, but I, you know, hey, a memory game, take a picture of an animal, whatever, lion, bear, tiger, rhino, set a timer

for like 10 seconds. Stare at that picture, then have them pull the picture away, tell them everything you remember about that picture. Now, you know rhinos have tails, but did you notice it in the picture? You know, so it's kind of this weird, like it very well could have, and I just was

not focused on that part of it. So again, I can't I can't really confirm or deny that it had one, because I just, I did not see one. Yeah, I get it. You're busy saving your life. I get it completely, man.

You know, and a lot of times in those moments, when people encounter Sasquatch, for example, and if it's a really brief encounter, they'll focus in on something like the shoulders or the head, or they'll focus in on something, and they'll say, well, I couldn't really tell you much about the legs, because that's not really what, you know, they're in fear and the heart rate's going through the roof and so it's kind of tunnel vision when you see these these creatures out there and you know a lot I asked you the question about the tail um some eyewitnesses will say that you know there was a tail some eyewitnesses will say there was no tail I would say most of the time people say there was no tail um I want to ask you about the head was it the head of a wolf yeah no it had

it had like an elongated muzzle like it had a longer muzzle than your typical gray or black And like the other, like, West, this didn't have glowing red eyes and dripping, you know, sharp teeth and claws like ginsu knives. Like this was just like, oh my God, like a wolf just stood up. Wait, that's, no. Like, what am I looking at? What is in front of me right now? You know, like I knew where its eyes were, but they were sunk back in its head a little bit more than typical wolves. And we didn't see like an iris or peas.

or anything like that. But I knew where the eyes were. And it didn't hit me until it stood up. And then once it stood up, it was maybe 20 seconds of it standing, you know, me looking at it, two shots, back down and gone. So like, it happened relatively quickly. It was so like unwarranted. It was so just not necessarily unwarranted, but it was.

was just like unexpected. I've been in these woods for years. I have hunted this spot for years. I have never seen anything like this. I have hundreds of game cameras on my property, never caught anything even remotely what I would consider to be encrypted. So that was the last thing on my mind until I actually got back to camp and realized, nope, that was something else. Yeah, and the crazy part is your wildlife biologist. I mean, you've, you've gone to school for this, and I think the encounter is very, very fascinating. I know being in your situation, you probably don't feel that way, but, you know, with your education, now you're looking at something very, very unknown, and, you know, what do you do? You know, the whole dog man thing is very strange. I know when you

and I very first talked, you said one of the first episodes you listened to was the, I think it was episode 748, the dogman phenomenon. And in the intro, I had one of the guests come on, and they were talking about, it was a guy he was driving out there. I think he was in Pennsylvania. And he was driving down the road, and the saying jumped out in the middle of the road. And it's very identical to your situation, because the way he talks about this saying, and if the audience wants to say, go listen to 748, you'll know what I'm talking about. but he saw this creature on four legs and he thought, is that a coyote? Is that a wolf?

And then he said, bam, it's up on two legs and started running towards his car. And, you know, most encounters with these dogmen are very aggressive, very, very aggressive. And in your situation, it didn't seem to be that way. It's just odd. You know, being a wildlife biologist and you're seeing what you think is a wolf get up on two legs, you know, canines don't get up on two legs. legs. They can't. No, no, absolutely not. And the other thing that I've heard on your show is that they seek revenge. That I never had it come to the cabin. And I have two German shepherds

at the cabin. They're off leash. You know, they can wander the woods and do whatever they want. They were sleeping on the porch when I got home. That night, nothing came through camp. Like, it was just gone. And honestly, I, looking back on it now, it's kind of cool, I guess. But I wish I would have killed it just so I could have brought it in, you know, just so there would have been a specimen, something. Yeah, I wish, I wish you would have too. I wish you would have shot it and brought it down and you know that's a weird part about this whole dogman thing whatever they are the term bulletproof seems to come up a lot i've had you know police officers empty uh i had a police officer empty a clip into one and it didn't stop it it just kept coming which is bizarre

you know if it's a natural animal just the sound of a gun going off it's going to make most animals run if you graze one or whatever uh it's going to run. You know, the only time they're going to attack, which is probably going to be very rare, especially when you're firing a weapon at one, is if there's something wrong with it. And this creature, you know, it seems like it was going back to get the milk, you know, after you, after you hit it. Yeah. I mean, every action, every step, every motion, everything it did, it did with intent. He, like, the same. thing knew where I was, but I don't think it knew that I knew where it was, if that makes

sense. So with it kind of moving in and out of the trees, like, he was making sure I was still there and then finding a vantage point to get to a new spot closer to me. That is very typical of cougar and wolf behavior. Wolves, when they're hunting in packs, you know, they'll run a deer down as a pack. If you've got a lone wolf or like a rogue wolf, they'll put a stock on something and they'll get as close to it as they can before they actually like attack and go for the kill. So I, in my mind, I have no doubt that if I wouldn't have fired or wouldn't have moved

or like not acknowledged it was there, it would have attempted to get closer. Like, and it would have finished what it started. that is, you know, that's my idea. Those are my feelings on that. Yeah, and I would have shot the creature too, Matt. I mean, I don't blame me one bit for shooting. I probably would have shot before you did. And thank God of the profession you're in,

because, you know, you recognize the stalking behavior of them coming in closer and closer and closer, and generally they do that before they attack. And God forbid someone who didn't recognize that behavior was out there and just sat there and watched it coming closer and closer. Let me ask you, do you think it's a biological creature? Absolutely. I'm a Christian.

I'm born and raised Catholic. I'm not the best practicing Catholic right now, but that's what I identify myself as. Everything about this was flesh and blood, simply because if it were a demon or something, paranormal, why would it stalk? Why would it stay hidden? Why, if it wanted me and it was like a demon, and these are my, you know, this is just kind of my thoughts, but this were something demonic or a hellhound or something like that, why, why not just come charging in? And if this

was a hellhound or against something demonic, after I shot it, why did it back away? So most predators, like those bigger ones, the wolves, the bears, the cougars that are in the UP, they can't afford to get hurt. Breaks its leg, goes after an elk or a deer that's too big, takes a tying to the neck, the lungs, it's done. That's why they typically go after the older, the sicker, the slower prey. my thoughts are that this realized okay this is not an easy meat bag this isn't just a sitting meal this thing is going to fight back i have the potential to get harmed and i can't afford to get harm that is kind of my my theory on it but again like i just i don't know yeah let's let's put

cryptos aside for a moment and just talk on a scientific level. There was a bear. I want to say it was in upstate New York. Might have been Pennsylvania. And neighbors, these people were filming it. It was coming through the neighborhood. It would come through every morning and eat food out of the trash. The fascinating part about the bear was it only walked on two legs.

It never got down on four legs. And you could tell people had taken video of it. And there was something wrong with its paw. and you know so you you kind of feel for the bear being in that situation and I don't recommend feeding bears but I probably would have fed the bear too because I would have felt bad for it because otherwise it's going to die out there it can't live like any other bear on a scientific level though I've never heard of a canine adapting and getting up on two legs and running around like a man It's just it's unheard of.

And I don't think there are physical structures built for such a thing. Now we're talking on natural animals right now at this moment. But I don't, I've never heard of such a thing. And I want to ask you with your education and all of your knowledge of different wildlife, how do you explain that on a scientific level that a canine would get up, adapt, and walk around on two legs if it's a natural animal? How do you explain that on scientific level? And I'm not breaking your balls.

I'm just curious. I really, I'm curious on your opinion. No, I would classify it the same way you would classify Sasquatch. It's an undocumented mammal. I mean, to me, that's the only, like the only explanation. You know, and on the flip side of this, right, if this is a flesh and blood, like canine mammal, it has to have parents. This isn't hundreds of thousands of years old.

This isn't the only one of its species. And again, Michigan is known, not necessarily for Sasquatch, although I do believe the sightings that have been reported, Michigan is known for the dog man. And I mean, Wes, I sent you the pictures of my cabin, you know, Look at all the area that's up there that's unpopulated. You know, there's a couple bigger cities, but there's a lot of open forest in upper Michigan.

Now, that's not me saying there's a whole like pack of werewolves running around northern Michigan, but I think you would have to classify this as like an undocumented canine or like a subspecies of canine. Yeah, I see where you're coming from on it, Matt. I just have a hard time buying into the fact that it's a natural animal. I don't have a hard time buying into the fact that Dogman is real. I've talked to way too many people who have very, very similar encounters,

and there's a lot you can pull from their encounters for the same not to be out there. I just have a hard time buying into the fact that it's some natural animal that has adapted this way. and the bulletproof part, you know, of them being bulletproof still bothers me. But I get where you're coming from and I respect your opinion. I did get the pictures of your property and it's a beautiful piece of property in Michigan. If you told me that, hey, these pictures are from a place in the Pacific Northwest, I believe you. It's green and, I mean, God, it's beautiful out there. I want to ask you, though, Matt, have you gone back to this specific area where you shot this creature?

Absolutely. I was there three days later. As dumb as... So, like, after I shot it and it disappeared, I probably sat there for two or three hours, just kind of like dumbfounded, confused, nervous, scared, terrified. Like, I went through just about every range of emotion

you could go through. And at that point, sun was up, birds were out. Like, I mean, not scary. Like, it wasn't, you're like, oh, dark in the woods. So I got up and I went to the spot where I shot it. And there were like imprints. You could see where something had walked,

but there wasn't anything like castable. Up there, there was leaves all over the ground. So there's nothing left, you know, good footprints or paw prints. But you could definitely tell where it had been standing. There was nothing. There was no blood. But I also didn't find, my rounds.

Now, you shoot 45 at like a brick wall some hard that bullets going to mushroom up and just drop and hit the ground. Maybe bounce back a little bit. But I didn't, I didn't find the rounds. And I went up there with a metal detector

the next day. Again, I was looking at this from my background. And typically when a large predator, Wolf, Cougar, Bear, has an encounter with a human where that human fired a shot into the ground in front of it, actually hit it, did something to stop an attack.

You can tell those animals from the ones who haven't. When you're in the woods and you run across to Black Bear that's had an encounter with a human that affected it negatively, it's going to take off. it's going to get as far away from you as possible. Same with a cougar, same with a wolf. The ones that haven't, they're just kind of curious,

they don't really care, they're top of the food chain. So with this, it was like I wasn't super worried about it coming back or hanging around. Again, I'd been on this property for over 25 years,

never seen anything like it before. My initial thought was, whatever this was moving through, caught my scent, watched me, walk in. Like it, it was there not for me, but I was, I was opportunistic. He had an opportunity. He was going to take it because I looked like an easy, easy meal. So yeah, I did go back and I, you know, that was in 2019 and I go back. I'm living up there and I haven't seen anything even

remotely close. Yeah, and I would love to check out that property. I know you're on a huge piece of property out there. And going back to one thing that you said before, you know, a lot of encounters, there is a revenge streak in these creatures. There seems to be somewhat of a revenge streak, especially with the dog man. But I would love to know, if anything else happens out there, will you keep me up to date? Let me know what's going on. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, you'll be the first person I contact. And like I said, I've got probably 150 game cameras up. Some of them are for work. Some of them are my personal ones. I've got two on that ridge line right now recording.

So, yeah, absolutely. And do I expect something to happen again? No, but to be fair, I wasn't expecting that encounter on October 1st, 2019 either. So, yeah, of course, absolutely, you'll be the first one in contact. Yeah, and I really appreciate it, Matt. And I appreciate you coming on the show and sharing it, man. it's really cool to get the insight from a wildlife biologist. You know, this is what you do for a living.

And the fact that you ran into the saying and would be willing to talk about it, I can't tell you how much I really, really do appreciate that. And I know that you listen to the show. You've never seen a Sasquatch. I'm curious, with your background and kind of what you do for a living, if someone were to ask you, hey, Matt, what is a Sasquatch? What would you say to them? So initially, I would say an undocumented species of primate or subprimate.

But there's too many weird things about some of these encounters that make me go, okay, there might be something different. And the one episode of yours that I listened to was you and Lestroud, when he gave his story about the like mind speak he's probably the one person that if he said you know how everybody tells you the grass is green what if I told you it's yellow I'd actually stop and go you know what maybe it is like that's how much like faith I have in him and I've watched like I just so when he was talking about that I was like okay there's something there's something else to this and you know maybe they are a

subspecies of primate who have tapped into a part of their brain that we can't. I mean, there are certain animals that display certain characteristics that us as humans can't even fathom, like the cuttlefish. Have you ever seen the way cuttlefish change colors? No, I don't even think I know what a cuttlefish is. It looks like a little squid. But, I mean, they will flash like neon, signs. I mean, they can change color just within their selves,

and they can do it whenever they want. Or they don't have to do it. Like, they can control it. They don't really, you know, there are people who understand how to do it. I'm not a marine biologist. But there are certain animals that display these characteristics that

the modern, like, human goes, huh? What? How is that a thing? But to them it's everyday life. But to them, that's normal. You know, to me, I would have to say it's an undocumented species of primate. That's me, and I don't think we'll ever know until one gets brought in. Yeah, and that's definitely a fair answer, Matt. I mean, no one really knows, and you're right, no one will probably ever know until one is brought in. Same thing with the dog, man. That's why I

love that question, because there's really no wrong answer. You can't give a wrong answer to that question. want to ask you being a wildlife biologist, I always thought, God, that'd be such a great gig. You know, you're out there, you get the fresh air. I would imagine at times it's boring and can be very dangerous, too, I would imagine as well. Has there ever been a moment when you've been out there, except for the dog man situation, has there ever been a moment when you're out there and you're working as a wildlife biologist and you think, I'm in big trouble. I may not make it out of here. There have been a couple times. I've been bluff charged quite a bit.

I say quite a bit, probably four or five times by decent-sized black bears. And again, like if you, you know, that's why throwing up your arms and, you know, yelling and screaming and making yourself look big. They're not used to being challenged. They're used to things turning and running away. So if you challenge it, odds are, it's going to be like, what is this and turn around and run away? I have been surrounded by a pack of wolves. I only saw one of them,

but they were definitely communicating to one another. And I fired a shot at the wolf, didn't want to kill it, hit the ground about 10 feet in front of it. It yip took off, and I never heard another howl and got out of there. I was riding my bike down a trail and looked, you know, looked in my rear view and there was a cougar just sitting on the other side of a tree I didn't see and it kind of took off and started to trot after me and then it just kind of worked its way into the woods. So those are kind of it most of the time. It's very kind of, I don't want to say

boring, but we do, I said it, we set a lot of like traps, not like bear traps, but actual like cage traps that I check pretty much every day, if not every other day. And then if there's something there, we, you know, we'll sedate it, tag it, maybe put a tracking collar on it, depending on what we've got. Open the trap, let the tranquilizer wear off, and then it kind of wanders out to the woods, you know. So I'm not out there running around with a tranquilizer gun shooting at everything, you know, that moves. If we're going to put a trap up, we've got good sign, we have sighting on a trail cam. We have scat. We've got bones from, you know, it's kills, you know. So we have an idea of where these guys are. Yeah, and I appreciate sharing that, Matt, very much. You know, all those

situations would really terrify me, you know, Black Bear and the pack of wolves, though, I think, would really, really bug me. I mean, that's beyond terrifying. You're not fighting one predator. You're fighting a group of them. You know what I mean? That was pretty, that was pretty creepy. That was, and that was like right about dusk. So the, like, sun's not coming up, sun's going down. It's only going to get darker.

But yeah, luckily that one shot was all it took to have that one, you know, that one barked and that was enough of an indication that, hey, that's, this isn't, this isn't an easy target. This, whatever this is is going to put up a fight. we don't want to get hurt. Let's get out of here. So. Yeah, and I think the whole black bear situation would bother me. I've come across black bears when I was out there hunting. And, you know, I've never come across one that really wanted to fight or it's like they get a sense of you and they're gone.

You know, they get a whiff of you and they're gone. And every black bear I've seen, it's like a flash. You know, you see a black flash and they're running in the opposite direction. And, you know, in North America, we have a, ton of black bears. And my audience, you know, ranges from people who don't go out in the woods to hikers, hunters, kids that listen to the show. And, you know, with your education and your role in the community, what would you recommend if someone came across a black bear? What would kind of be your advice? Stand your ground. I mean, if you, and like I hate saying this, but if you come between any bear, black, grizzly, Codiac, polar,

if you come between a mother and her cubs, I mean, try to get, don't turn around and run, face it, back away, keep your arms out, let it know that like you're leaving, let it see you backing away, you don't want to turn around and run, because that will trigger its, you know, predatory instincts, and it will chase you because it will think it's prey. I'll think you're prey. But if it's just kind of walking up to you

and it's not acting super aggressive, hey, bear, let it know you're there. Don't try to scare it. That's the last thing you also want to do is you don't want to spook. These animals typically, nothing sneaks up on them. They're not hunted like that. So if all of a sudden there's something there that snuck up on it, that they weren't anticipating.

They're going to go into defense mode, which is typically really aggressive. So basically, if you're out in the woods and all of a sudden you've noticed that there's two bear cubs in a tree next to you without a mama, back,

just back away, keep your arms up, make yourself look big. Again, these animals aren't used to being challenged. And nine times out of ten, they'll back off. It's really good advice. And I appreciate sharing,

hearing it, Matt. And I appreciate you coming on and talking about what happened to you, especially, you know, being a wildlife biologist and, you know, working for the government and coming forward and saying, hey, I saw this. It takes a lot of courage. You know, I wish we had a different name. I hate the name, Dogman. I really wish, it sounds so stupid. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I mean that, yeah. And it, to me right now, it almost sounds dumb saying, hey, I saw werewolves, but. I mean, I don't know how else to, like, describe it to somebody accurately. Yeah, I hear you. And, you know, the whole dog man thing really is something that is, Michigan really is, like, ground zero for the dog man. I probably get, I would say most encounters out of Michigan. It makes me wonder why they're there. But I really appreciate the fact that you would come on and share what happened to you, Matt.

I mean, you didn't have. to you and your role, you know, I know being a wildlife biologist, working for the government, and then having the courage to come forward and say, hey, I saw this, I shot this. I can't thank you enough for coming forward and sharing what happened to you. I really enjoyed talking with you, Matt. Yeah, of course. Thanks for having me, Wes. And that's it for tonight, everyone. Remember, if you've had an encounter, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. If you get a chance, check out. Sasquatch Chronicles.com, you can become a member and get additional shows. Until next time,

everyone.