Sasquatch Chronicles - SC EP:796 The Stand Off

Episode Date: October 1, 2021

A listener writes "I'm a private person, a 20 year military combat veteran and have only told this story to two other people. My wife and my cousin." Spoke to the witness and he has agreed to come on the show. He said "I bought some property in Oregon and wanted to get away from everyone. I was dealing with PTSD. I was staying in a trailer while I was working on building a home on the property. One night I thought people were messing with my equipment. I armed myself and ran out of the trailer. I was face to face with these creatures. I have NEVER seen anything like this."

It looked like somebody was bent over and had their head in the window of the deer blind. It either heard me or smelt me, and he pulled his head out of the tent and stood straight up. That shocked me. They don't make people that big. The way it moved, almost as if it was gliding across the beach. I've never seen anything moved like that in my life. What I'm glad? They were screaming at each other in gibberish.

It sounded like a language and they were chumtering away back and forwards, back and forwards, back and forwards. I know what a bear looks like and there is no way on this planet but what I saw were bears. What's going on now, sir? That's son of a bitch is about six foot nine, I don't know. Do you see a mouse, sir? Yes, I'm looking right here. Uh-oh. Hi, this is Carol King from Music City, and you're listening to Sasquatch Chronicles.

Welcome to the show, everyone. Thanks for being here tonight. Got a great show plan for you. Tonight we're going to be chatting with John, and John comes to us from Oregon, and he's a 20-year veteran of the military, and to kind of get away from things, he bought this piece of property out in the middle of nowhere,

was going to build a home on it, and he was staying on it in a trailer. And while he was developing the land, he had a run-in one night with three creatures. So John will be going into that tonight. If you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com.

And if you get a chance to check out, Sasquatch Chronicles.com, you can become a member and get additional shows. The app is almost here, 99% done. I'm having a few members check it out for me, but I'm very satisfied with it. It's very cool. You can listen to all the member shows, all the public shows, read the blogs, do everything you want on the app that you can do on the website, but I will announce when it's officially

released. I'm hoping to release it soon. Let's jump into it tonight. I want to welcome John to the show. John, thanks for coming on. Thanks for having me. Yeah, I really appreciate it, John. and if you would, would you just kind of start from the very beginning?

I know the encounter happened in Oregon back in 2014. Just kind of start from the very beginning. Kind of tell us what you were doing and walk us into what happened. What did you end up seeing? Okay. Well, I had been in the military. I grew up in Portland, Oregon, and I had been in the military for 20 years. And whenever I got out, I had had some bad experiences with deployments and things.

I am a combat veteran and my PTSD was off the chart and I was looking to just get away from people. I really didn't identify with people. I was pretty antisocial at the time. And through the VA and disability, I'd come into a sizable sum of money, a back pay that I should have got. And I used that to purchase some acreage about 45, 50 miles. southwest of the Dalles, Oregon, near the east side of Mount Hood. And the idea was that my wife was going to continue to work during the week and then come out there on the weekends.

And my father took his fifth wheel out there for me to live in. And I just stayed out there and I was going to build a cabin that we could vacation to and go to on the weekends. And then eventually, wherever my wife was old enough to retire to. So I'm out there and I have a lot of relatives in the Portland area who had made their living in the construction industry. And I had an uncle who had a business where he rented heavy equipment to people. So he had brought a big backhoe out there. And my cousin, who was a heavy equipment operator, had been coming out on the weekends to help me dig, what was going to be the basement, but it was a big hole.

And we were going to put the foundation all through it. And the hole that we had ended up digging was about 30 feet by 40 feet, and it was about 12, 12.5 feet deep. When we had got the hole finished, my cousin loaded the backhoe up onto the trailer that they hauled out there, and my uncle was going to come get it the following weekend. So I'm basically living out there in a fifth wheel, camping, and doing a lot of work around the property during the week, you know, clearing out underbrush and pulling it and burning it. And so one night after about a month and a half of me living out there, I was asleep. It was about one o'clock in the morning or so.

and I heard a big bang against, you know, something very heavy hitting against metal. So I got up and I grabbed, I didn't have any night vision and, you know, no electricity, but I had, you know, I had lanterns. And I grabbed my surefire flashlight. And I stood in the doorway of this fifth wheel and I shined it around the only metal thing out there, which was the trailer containing this big backhoe that was right next to this giant pit in the ground. And I didn't see anything. So I went back to bed and I laid there and I listened and I listened and I didn't hear anything.

So when the sun came up, I went around there and I'm looking. Near there, there's a big giant pile of dirt and rocks that had been dug up from the hole. Tobacco is dirty. We hadn't even cleaned it yet. I didn't see anything on there where any of the dirt or anything had been disrupted. I didn't see any tire tracks. I thought maybe something had flown into it or, you know, animal had run into it or something.

So I just carried on with my day of doing the chores that I had been working on out there. The next night, right in the middle of the night again, I heard it again. It was something heavy hitting metal, a big bang sound. So I laid there to see if I heard it again. And after a few minutes, I heard it again. So I jumped up and I grabbed, I had all my guns out there with me. And one of the guns that I had happened to take out there with me was an M4 with an aim point sight on it because that's what I was used to carrying in the military. So I grabbed my M4 and my surefire and opened up the door and I looked around and did not see anything.

And at this point, I'm thinking that some people from town, some kids or something that were out there messing with me. So I yelled out, you better get out of here. and I didn't hear anything and I didn't hear anything so I closed the door and went back toward the bunker where I was sleeping and I heard to bam again so I

now I'm angry so I flipped the door open again and I said I'm armed and I will shoot you don't try me and I looked around and I'm shining the flashlight around looking for any movement listening I don't see or hear anything

and I know sooner than close the door to the fifth wheel again And I mean, the door clicked and I heard bam again. So I threw it back open and I'm looking around and I don't hear anything. And basically I just prop my butt down on the floor of the camper with the door open shining my flashlight around until the sun came up. So that was that night. And the following night, I'm laying in bed and I'm listening. I had stayed up.

one of the things that I didn't tell you when you and I had talked before, I had built a big bonfire and I was going to just stay out there all night. And I made a show of, because at this point I'm still thinking that it's kids out there messing with somebody that, you know, maybe this, I'm in their old drinking area or something. I don't know.

Kids from the Dalser Hood River had come in there and they're just messing with me. So I built a big bonfire. I made a big show of bringing all my guns out and sitting on a, on the lawn chair out there and really slowly cleaning my guns and looking around, you know, show anybody that's watching me that I'm armed. Eventually, it got quite late. The fire had burned down, so I just, I had seen anything, hadn't heard anything, so I went back into the trailer.

I get into bed and I'm laying there for a while and not hearing anything, listening for everything. I can hear crickets outside, so I'm thinking, okay, there's nothing out there. and I fell asleep and about 4.30 I heard the bang, something heavy on metal again. And I jumped up through my pistol in my holster, grabbed my M4, and I ran to the door and I waited. And when I heard the bang again,

I was ready to jump out. And then I heard what I thought was a woman screaming, only it was really, really loud. It sounded like it was coming from right outside the door of the trailer. in my head it sounded like a woman who was in severe pain or being brutally attacked or something. It was just a desperate stream over and over and over again. So I took a deep breath and I prepared myself and whenever I threw open the door of the fifth wheel, I was at a run. And the door to the fifth wheel is about 30 to 40 feet from where this big hole is in the ground.

I've got a combat sling on my M4. I've got the sure fire up on the handguards of the M4, and I'm pointing, aiming in the direction of the pit as I'm running up there. As I'm running up there, I can identify there's two shapes that I can see on the far side of the pit, which would have been, well, it was about 30 feet from one side to the other. One of them is quite large. All I'm seeing is dark shapes. This is about 4.30 in the morning.

The sun is just starting to lighten again with the coming of the sun. one large shape, very tall, very big, massive, and then another shorter shape, but it was really long. And I'm not identifying what it is that I'm seeing. I run up to the edge of the pit before my brain tells me to hit the brakes. I hit the brakes, and I'm seeing this before I actually arrive and stop, and my brain is having trouble processing what it is that I'm seeing. The only word that comes to mind was beasts. I've heard the term monsters used

Great Apes These were just giant massive beasts The one that was shorter Appeared shorter because it was laying on the ground But the way it was laying, I registered later Wasn't laying the way a person would lay on the ground Where your whole body is laying on the ground It had one hand beneath it

And it was on its toes And it was looking like it was reaching down into the hole. In the time it took me to run from the camper to the hole was only a few seconds, and it had sprung back up onto its feet. Now, my M4 and my flashlight are pointing right at these two things, and they both let out this noise, this, they, I mean, it almost looked cartoonish. They slightly bent at the waist like they're throwing their voices at me.

and it was somewhere between a scream and a roar. But when it hit me, I felt this sense of fear. And I had felt fear before. I had been in combat situations plenty of times. And I had felt fear before the feeling that came over me that you and I had talked about was, I mean,

my body wanted to avoid itself of everything. I felt instantly, nauseated like I wanted to throw up to I wanted to urinate and I wanted to defecate. And I think had I eaten anything right before I'd gone to bed, I probably would have. While all that is going on, I'm also feeling extremely fatigued, almost like percussion fatigue. Like if you're around, if you're shooting, you're gone a lot, you know, the percussion of a high caliber gun can sometimes, you know, just beat on you and beat on you, or if you've been to like a lot of concerts

and stood too close to the bass or the amplifiers or things, it just kind of beats on you. So I felt this feeling of fatigue, like all I want to do is lay down right here, regardless of what's going on, and just go to sleep. I don't care what happens.

I just want to go to sleep. Their roar scream lasted three or four seconds, and my weapon was still pointing at them. And the creature to, I don't want to make it sound like they were on my left, right side or my right side. They were ahead of me, but there was one on the right and one on the left. And the one on the left went into this stance like it was getting ready to take three or four steps and then jump across the hole and attack me. And in my brain, I'm thinking it could probably make it. And if it gets on this side of this hole, I'm going to be toast.

In my peripheral with the light of the sure fire flashlight I was using, in my peripheral, I can see movement down inside the hole. So I took a quick glance down, and there was another creature down in the hole that was a lot smaller. It was maybe four feet tall. While all this is going on, I have another sense that to my left on the far side, I have the trailer with the backhoe on it on my left-hand side. and I can sense movement and hear movement on the far side of the backhoe moving toward the rear of me. I'm thinking if there's another one over there is coming around behind me and they're going to have me trapped in here and I'm about to get killed. I don't know. I don't remember identifying they're going to beat me to death.

They're going to rip me limb for limb. I've never seen anything like these things before. So, I mean, anything is possible. the mindset that I was in at the moment, from the time I got out of the military, to where I'm at this big plot of acreage with a big hole in it, where I'm going to build a home for my wife and I, and I'm out here to get away from people. I don't like people.

I don't understand them and they don't understand me is my mindset. I had lost a lot of friends in the military. I had lost a lot of friends to suicide. night after the military. And I was in a mindset where I really didn't care if I lived or died. People that have suffered depression get to that point. And you may have talked to people like this in the past. I really could care less if I die or if I stay alive.

So I'm thinking to myself, I'm going to die tonight. This is it. So I took a stance like, okay, if we're going to do this, we're going to do this. and I got this idea that I'm going to point my gun at the creature in the hole, because that's the smallest one. I know I could probably take that one out. They're going to take me in a rush anyway, so I'm not going down without fighting,

and I'm going to start with the weakest and work my way to the strongest. When I brought the barrel of the M4 down from the two that were across from me down into the hole, the one who looked like it was getting ready to jump over the pit let out this growl this really low, loud growl that started, it felt like you hear people, you know, whenever you yell something, yell from the sternum, this was somewhere below the sternum.

This thing started, and it just kind of boiled up and rolled out, and it was a loud growl. I've never heard anything like it. and it made me froze freeze for a moment my barrel's pointing down the creature the beast that's on the other side of the hole that was to the right put its hand out onto the shoulder of the other one almost like it's saying stop don't do anything um in my mind later i thought that may have been a sibling or a parent of of the small one in the hole because it's trying to get the other one, not to do anything that's going to cause me to shoot it. So at that point, it puts his hand on the one next to it. I no longer hear movement from my left on the far side of the back hole. I glanced down in the hole.

The thing that's down there is still jumping and trying to reach the edge of the hole so that it could get out. I thought to myself, maybe they're aggressive toward me because I'm a threat to the little one. So I took the barrel of my gun and I just moved it. While I'm watching the two on the far side, I just moved it off the little one, maybe a foot to the right of the one that was in the hole. And then we just sat there staring at each other for what seemed like hours, but it was really only maybe 20 seconds. The one on the right that had been already down on the ground before,

keeping its eyes on me, dropped back down onto the ground, reach down into the hole, grabbed the up-reaching arm of the one that was in the hole and just kind of flung it, threw it out of the hole so that it landed behind them and stood back up again.

And then they're just sitting there staring at me and I'm staring at them. I did not make any move to move the barrel of my gun again. I did not bring it back up onto them. What I was threatening, I was no longer threatening, and I thought, if they attack me,

I'm still in a position, where I can put it on on semi and just start pulling the trigger as fast as I can. If they don't, then they don't. And they started backing up slowly, and they got about 15 feet of backing up, and they turned around and just walked. They didn't run. They just walked back toward the tree line, which was about 50 yards beyond where we were. I glance over to my left thinking that I want to catch a side of the one that was over there.

And it's no longer on the side of the backhoe. Now it's over near where I parked my truck, which was between the backhoe and the hole. And it was watching me. And once I could no longer see the two other ones and the little one, the big one that was watching me from over top of the truck started backing up and got... No noise backed up to where I could no longer see it. I sat there for a few seconds, and then I shined my flashlight up to where the two had been, and then back over to where my truck was to see if I could catch sight of any of them anymore, and they were gone.

Then I went and started throwing everything. I went back into the camper. The sun was on its way up, and I started packing up my stuff, and I was going to get out of there, and that was the end of that. Yeah, I really admire the way you handled it. I think it's impressive, really. I always say if you want to get shot, put a gun in someone's hands who's scared or nervous, you're probably going to get shot. And I'm really amazed by the way you handled the situation. And as I was sitting there listening to it, I was sitting there thinking, here's a guy that has PTSD went out in the woods to avoid everyone and try and self-heal, which I admire. and then now you're in this situation. And all the bad stuff that happened to you in the war and all the time he spent in the service and all the stuff you're dealing with now,

it's ironic that that is probably, that skill set probably saved your life. Do you think having that skill set puts you in a better position to deal with this? Not that anyone really knows how to deal with the situation like this. No, I think that people that have been in situations, I mean, anybody, can say, oh yeah, well, I would do this to a person or I would do that to a person. You have it or you don't. And when you, if you do have it and you've had to do it on multiple occasions, you find a, you're hoping to find another solution so that you don't have to.

Nobody who's ever killed, well, I mean, serial killers probably do, but people that have had to kill don't cherish it. They don't relish it. They don't talk about it. It's something they would just as soon forget and hope that they hope to God they never have to do again. I wasn't looking to kill something if I wasn't in danger. Now, my sense of danger may be higher. I did not see or perceive at that moment that I was in danger, but whenever I felt like I was in danger,

I decided I'm taking as many of them out as I can. I'm not going down without a fight. And this is probably the end of it. Okay, that's the end of it. if I can avoid conflict, I'm going to, but if it comes to where I think there's going to be conflict, I'm going to make sure there's good conflict. You know, I'm going to make them remember today, you know. I didn't think that I had a chance of winning, but I also know where to aim, at least on a person, to put them down and put them down quick so you can move on to the next target. I don't feel that I was any more brave because I was ready to crap my pants.

I was ready to throw up and throw in the towel. But I felt that feeling plenty of times before in combat situations. I don't know too many people that have been in combat situations where they didn't feel that level of fear. But you have to continue to function otherwise you're toast. So you step out of the trailer and you have your light and you have your gun and everything and there's these two hulking creatures there standing. Can you kind of describe the first two that you saw?

They were very similar in size and very similar in the way that they looked. I would say that they were between eight and nine feet tall. Their shoulders were easily four feet wide, easily. The one that was standing on the left was a dark brown chestnut color. I say that because I recall whenever I would see horses. I don't know horses, but whenever I would see horses on. TV, my dad or my wife who no horses would say, yeah, that's

a chestnut color. So it was a chestnut color. It had hair from the top of its head all the way down to its feet. I don't remember if it was like a hobbit and had hair on the top of its feet. The hair looked like it was about four, maybe five inches

long all over its body. The neck and head and face was covered in this four to five inch hair. The shoulders and down its arms and down its legs the hair looked longer. Not as thick, though. It was more wispy.

It was maybe eight to ten inches long. And I would say that that one was 800 pounds minimum. One on the right, the hair was a little darker, but the face was lighter. The one on the, okay, let me go back to the one on the left. The one on the left, the skin that I could see on its palms and on its face was dark brown, almost like a Hershey bar, chocolate bar. It was dark brown. They both had a very pronounced eyebrow ridge, which made its, it would have made its eyes seem like they were sunken, but I think because the eyebrow ridge, you know, was so protruding,

I don't think the eyes were sunken in conjecture with the rest of its face. Their faces were wide, really wide, like not to, this is in no way meant to be racist at all, but whenever you look at a lot of Asians faces, their faces are really wide and flat. That's the way these faces were. Not chubby cheek, just wide and flat with a pronounced brow ridge. I didn't notice ears.

The hair went all the way up its neck right up to its bottom lip, but I didn't notice any hair on his upper lip unless it was really faint. The nose looked like a mushroom nose or a button nose that you would see on a person, but the nostrils were a lot wider. The nostrils probably went out an inch on either side of its nose. Nostrils pointed down, not out. to me it did not look like an ape. I've heard people say they look like ape.

There was nothing protruding the way an ape has its mouth, jaw, nose area protruding out from the rest of his face. There was none of that. Its lips were really thin. Its eyes were bigger than a human's eyes, really dark. I couldn't pick a color. I could see whites on either side when their eyes got big, but their eyes were really close together. that seemed closer together than what it should be to make the symmetry of its face the way, you know, in comparing it to a human face, I guess.

Its hairline started about an inch above its brow ridge. The one on the right, very similar in appearance. The lips were fuller. The skin was lighter, but its hair was a little darker. The hair was a darker brown, and its skin was, I had told you before, the only color I can compare it to that people would understand was like cardboard box color was the color of its skin. I didn't pay any attention to the feet. I really didn't pay any attention to their hands. I was watching body and head.

That one was slightly taller than the one on the left. I don't know that they looked they looked very similar but not exactly alike that one didn't have as much hair on its face again the hair did not come instead of going all the way up to its bottom lip the hair came up to the chin and stopped

but it was all down the it was longer hair you know four to five inches all down the front and sides of the neck the sides of the face but it didn't really go up past the chin on its face the one that I had appeared to the left that I saw toward the end of the encounter was massive. It was probably the biggest living thing that I've ever seen outside of a zoo. It was easily, I would estimate it is between 10 and a half and 11 feet tall.

Using my truck as a comparison, it was as wide at the shoulder as the hood of my truck. but it looked at me from over my truck. I said earlier, but it wasn't looking at me from over the hood of my truck. It was looking at me from over the cab. And I could easily see half of its body, the upper half of his body from over the cab of my truck. It was the biggest thing I've ever seen.

It appeared all black. I could see the face. I could slightly see the facial features, but the hair looked black and the skin looked black. and I only saw it for such a brief time that I didn't really get a good description of it. Its face wasn't shiny. None of their face seemed to have that oil that we get on our face. They weren't shiny.

They were dull. Like their skin didn't emit oil the way our skin emits oil. It was quite a presence once I saw it. The presence that I saw visually, did not match the presence I perceived on the far side of the backhoe. Perception-wise, it seemed like it was a lot smaller because it wasn't making as much. It was making noise. I could hear it, but not as much noise as it moved.

But I didn't hear it move from the side of the backhoe back to the backside of my truck, and I didn't hear it move whenever it backed away into the dark. So I don't know how something that big moved like that without making any noise. but my ears were still ringing from the adrenaline of the encounter, from the roar scream of both these other things, and from the growl. So maybe I just didn't identify it. Maybe I was probably most definitely a shock.

Let me ask you, John, the mail that was over by your truck, what do you think it was doing? I mean, I know that you don't know and I don't know. I'm very curious on your opinion, because as I listen to you, talk about the mail over, by your truck, it kind of sounds like it was trying to ambush you. That's what I get from it. Tactically speaking, I think that's exactly what he was doing. My attention was focused ahead of me,

and it was going to move to get behind me. To me, thinking tactically, that's exactly what it was doing. I mean, I doubt he was heading toward my trailer to rum and drowned in my potato chips. You know, I think he was moving around behind me. But at the same time, again, that speculation, because this thing's size, it could have easily jumped over the trailer and the backhoe and been at me a lot faster than moving around behind the back of the trailer

of the backhoe. It could have come over the backhoe and bent on me faster. So I don't know what it was doing, but I'm glad it didn't do whatever it was planning to do. Yeah, you and me both, John. You and me both.

I want to ask you, you know, you see these two creatures next to the hole. Did you get the impression that it was two males or was it a did you get any sort of impression as far as gender? I think one was definitely female. I think the one that was reaching down into the hole was definitely a female. I didn't see genitalia in the natural sense of the bottom half of the male female genitalia. It didn't have breasts that were apparent like in the Patterson Gimlin film. its chest looked more like a female athlete,

you know, like a female weightlifter. It didn't really have so much as breasts as it did big pecks. But I could identify the nipples through the hair because its skin was lighter. And that one's nipples actually protrude it out a little bit through the hair. So I identified that one as female. the one next to it could have been male or female, I don't know, but the one that was to the right, to my right, looking across the hole at them, I perceived as either the sibling or the mother of the little one that was down in the hole. Yeah, and I'm kind of curious on what the little one in the hole looks like. Before we get into that, when you were sitting there looking at these two things relatively close, I mean, you step out of your trailer and bam there right there.

was there anything that stood out to you as far as how they were proportioned or anything physically that kind of that really stays with you? Yes. Their heads were as big as a five-gallon bucket, the two across the way. The big male, one you call it male, which I can only assume was a male as well, probably the alpha. His head was much bigger. But the two across the way, their heads were as much. big as a five-gallon bucket. Their arms, I've heard it said that their arms go down past their knees. These did not. Their arms were long in proportion. They were longer than a human's

in proportion to its body. They hung down almost to its knees, but the knees were lower. They both had very long legs, but the proportion of the legs, the thigh length was a lot longer than the shin length. So the shins were probably no bigger than my shens, but their thighs were twice the length of my thighs. So their knees appeared lower on their legs than it would be for a human being. Although the height of their legs seemed to generate from their thighs, not so much from their shin areas or their lower cap areas.

Again, I didn't get a good look at their feet. I could not identify if their feet were big, all if they had hair on top, if they were the same color as the rest of them. I really wasn't focusing. But in the picture snap of my mind that I took of their body features, their legs were long, but not in proportion. They were definitely much bigger in upper body lengthwise from their neck to their waist. But their legs were, and maybe their legs just appeared long because of the proportions,

but the upper leg was definitely a lot longer than the lower leg. And they were very, my father was one of those people that, you know, he was six foot one and all of his height was in his torso, you know, short-legged, short bow-legged man with a long torso, and that's what these things look like. The shorter, the legs were shorter than their upper body and their thighs were longer than their lower leg. Yeah, that's a fascinating detail, John. And that's kind of what I saw too.

And I really think that they're proportioned that way to drop down on all fours. We're not built to be on all fours. And it's mainly because of our knees, if you think about it, where our knee placement is at. And I kind of think that's how they're able to drop down all fours. And I kind of think that's why they walk in such a weird gate because of the knee placement. Yeah, fascinating detail. What did the one in the hole look like? he was it well i'll say it because i can't identify it was a boy in my mind i've equated it to be a

little boy but i i don't know for certain what gender it was it was about four feet tall proportionately it looked just like the bigger ones only smaller you know its its body was shaped like theirs but in proportion to if it was only four feet tall long arms, really long hair coming down over its hands along its shoulders, no hair on its face whatsoever. Really extended brow ridge. His hair was darker. I told you on the phone earlier, if you've ever seen that 1970s TV show Land of the Lost, there was a little like caveman boy that was friends with one of the kids on that show,

and its name was Chaka. And it looked like that. no hair on his face its hair was darker than the hair of that character on that show but it looked very very similar to that that little caveman kid on that

TV show from back in the 70s hair covered its body its chest didn't have as much hair on it as the adults did its face next to no hair on it but it had hair on its neck all the way up to like where your chin starts coming out had hair all the way up

its neck but none on its chin none on its face, none on his cheeks. But it started, again, about an inch above its brow ridge and, you know, went back and had, all of them had like twigs and sticks and things like they had been forging through the undergrowth. The little one had long arms to the point that in a 12-foot hole, it was able to reach up and grasp the hand of the one that was laying, it had gone back down into military term front lean and rest position, like it was going to do a push-up, it never laid on the ground.

It just kind of got back down on the ground and reached down in there, and they were able to clasp hands without the little one jumping. So it, yeah, that's what it looked like. Yeah, it's a good description. I'll have to put that chaka up underneath this episode. But the other question I want to, I ask you, John, is did you ever hear, I mean, you're hearing the big creatures vocalize. Did the small one ever make any sort of vocalization?

The little one was the one that was creating the sound that I mistook for a screaming woman. Because it was still doing that up until the time that I got to the pit. When it saw me at the hole, it stopped. But looking across as I was running up, it was obviously not the two that were across the way. And from the roar, the yell, scream thing that they threw my direction sounded nothing like what I would like the sound of a woman screaming. So I can only presume that that sound was coming from the little one in the hole because it couldn't get out. Yeah, that's a really fascinating detail, John. You know, a lot of times people will say I heard an 800-pound

owl out in the woods, but they never say I heard an 800-pound woman screaming in the woods. And it is a vocalization that a lot of eyewitnesses report, and you could pass some of them off as, well, it's probably they're hearing a feline or, you know, a fox, something like that, something making that noise. But in some cases, that's not true, that it does sound like a woman screaming in the woods. And that little bit of detail about it was coming from the little one. I find, I mean, I'm really kind of taken back by it. I want to ask you, so you step out of your trailer and you expect to run into kids or people screwing with you, what's kind of going through your mind? I mean, you step out of the trailer and you're confronted your face-to-face with this.

What's kind of going through your mind at this point? Having grown up in the Pacific Northwest, you know, I had seen Bigfoot documentaries, you know, unsolved mysteries. I had seen the scene the In Search of Bigfoot. I had seen the Patterson Gimlin film on lots of shows. This was before I had ever seen any of the reality shows that are on TV about Bigfoot nowadays. It's one of those things where you grow up with it. You know, you've heard the stories like the Loch Ness Monster.

You know, you've heard the stories like the Jersey Devil, Mothman, Bigfoot. It's Yeti. It's just one of those things that you put in your head that's not happening. here at somewhere else, I'd just presume that there was one of them up to this point. You know, I hadn't really thought about it as an adult. As a kid, it's a campfire story. Dad would tell, you know, about, you know, Bigfoot stories, you know, to scare kids and, you know, take them snipe hunting and get them scared to be out in the dark. Something that, you know, how we traumatize our children. I had never really given the idea of Bigfoot much thought as an adult. When I came out,

I was expecting to see two kids, two or three kids, but that's not what I saw. And again, I only saw the two to begin with. It wasn't until I was up to the hole and stopped that I registered. There was even something in the hole. It was the two that were on the far edge of the hole. The whole time I'm running up there, I'm thinking to myself, these aren't people. You need to stop. And by that point, I'm there.

So it was a state of. disbelief. I couldn't really believe what I was. You could, you might as well had a unicorn standing on the far side. I could not comprehend what I was seeing. I knew what it was, but it's not like my mindset, oh, well, these are Bigfoot, obviously. My mind, my mind was more saying, this can't be what it is. This can't be. But here you are, face to face with it. Yeah, and I know I said it before, John, but I really admire the way you handled the whole situation and how you, you know, you were able to calculate what was going on and how quickly you calculated what was going on. You know, you were playing chess and a game of checkers, and I think you handled it really,

really well. Why do you think the creatures didn't harm you? I think they didn't kill me because I stopped posing a threat to them and to the little one. if I had to piece together in my mind what happened the little one was out there playing around for the last few nights banging on heavy equipment and fell in that hole while it was goofing off they were out there trying to get it

when I appeared I was a threat to them initially and then I became a big threat to one of their children or a small member of their group and when I stopped or I was willing to show that I will not be a threat to that, I think that, again, I can't reason to what they reason. I can't just assume they reason the way we do. When I appeared to no longer pose a serious threat to their little one or to show that I was not going to shoot at the little one, they stopped being a threat to me or they chose not to be a threat to me. If I chose not to be a threat to their little one or to them,

they chose not to be a threat to me. Then it was like, you go your way, we'll go our way, and that'll be the end of it. Yeah, it definitely shows a lot of intelligence on the creature's part, you know, of not really making a bad situation worse and they get their young one and they walk off. I want to ask you, though, John, you know, and I've always wanted to ask someone in your position what you're feeling on this is. So in a lot of encounters, people will talk about infrasound. You know, I was, they call it, I was zapped, which, you know, who knows if it's infrasound

or if it's fear. A lot of times when these things vocalize, people describe it as being hit with a sound wave, and there's a feeling of being tired or exhausted afterwards. Some people feel nauseous or sick after being that close and having one of these things vocalized. And I've wondered, is it fear? You know, they're seeing something that really shouldn't exist. Is it fear in that adrenaline dump, or is it something more? When these things vocalized and you had that feeling of being exhausted, do you think it was fear or do you think there was more to it? Yes, I do. One of the things that I left out whenever I had to talk to you

before was when they scream roared or whatever that, I'm just going to call it a scream war, When they did that, it almost felt like a strong wind was hitting me in the face. Now, I didn't have to take a step back to steady myself for fear of being blown over, but it felt like that kind of pressure hit me from the front. The fear I felt was both fear and adrenaline, but I don't think that I was dumping the adrenaline. When the encounter was over and for the next two days, I felt exhausted. I did not feel ill. I didn't feel nauseous.

My appetite was just as like it had been. I just felt tired. I felt fatigued. Like I was coming out of having the flu. But I'm not sick. I'm just, I have no energy. It's consuming my energy to get up and, you know, walk to the bathroom and back. It just seemed to zap all my energy out of me for days.

Yeah. Did you have any sort of feeling of being disoriented afterwards? words? Well, I don't feel that I felt any more disoriented. I felt disoriented when they screamed at me, but I didn't feel disoriented. My orientation came back as I was in the encounter. It's like, I feel they attempted to disorient me, but what they were blasting me with fear, if that's what they were doing, I felt that level of fear before. And it's not having the desire effect because I know how to deal with it. I've been through it.

So I felt very disoriented. I felt very dizzy, nauseous. I just want to lay down. But that quickly passed and I was right back in the encounter. And it never came back while I was in the encounter. It just hit me that one time and then I was in it. I hear you. In that moment in time, John,

did you feel like you were dealing more with an animal? did you feel like you were dealing more with human being? What was kind of your impression as far as these things? They didn't strike me as being more human. They didn't strike me as being more animal. If I had to label it, they are a thing all unto themselves. When they screamed at me, I did notice that their teeth were flat. I didn't see any canines.

I've heard of that before, but I didn't see, there was no snout, There was no canines. There was nothing like that. Like I said, their faces were wide but flat, a protruding nose, mouth, same level as its cheeks and the upper face area. But it's, I believe that they have the ability to reason. I believe they have the ability to methodically do things, both individually and as a group. At least they seemed to, they were obviously communicating with each other some way, because the one, like I said, the one on the other side of the back goes,

stopped moving when the one across the way put his hand on the shoulder of the other one. It's like that was the motion to stop doing what you're doing. But these things, I had told you earlier, they're feral. I believe that there's more intelligence there than any other animal in the world. you know, outside of human beings. They had an intelligent, appeared to have an intelligence level, a compassion level,

um, forethought, the ability to strategize, the ability to think and to change their action. But they were very feral. There was nothing about these things that would not have torn me, thrash me from limb, limb. They weren't necessarily more beast than man and they weren't necessarily more man than

beast. They were something otherly different. They were their own category. Yeah, I hear a lot of people say that. It's kind of hard to disagree with it. So you leave the property. Do you tell anyone and what kind of happened with this property? Other than you, and believe me, it took me a long time to decide back and forth whether or not I should email you. I had only told two other people, my wife and my cousin, and one of me telling one of those people, it kind of turned up to bite me in the butt. I packed up my truck. I headed back to Portland. That was on a Friday. My cousin was supposed to come out and do some work on Saturday. I told him and my wife, they were both at the house that night. And I told them both what had happened. And I told him both what had happened.

And they were full of questions. I answered what I could. I told them I never want to go back out there again. I don't want the property, but that was something for my wife and I did discuss more later. Unbeknownst to me, my cousin had contacted a bunch of groups from the internet, local groups, and had had some of them out. I did find footprints in the dirt pile because I went back out.

Saturday. And my cousin had talked to researchers and gone out there Friday night with researchers, and they had made casts, unbeknownst to me, on my property. And that kind of angered me. When I was back out there Saturday, I had asked my uncle not to come, not to pick up the backhoe, and I asked him to bring in like a front end loader, because I decided to fill, I'm getting rid of this property. I wanted the hole filled back in. I asked him if he could bring some equipment out to push the dirt back into the hole. Why we were out there, and I'm showing my wife what I, you know, had found and, you know, we were looking around. Some of the researchers that my cousin had contacted and had already had out there showed up in three, three, it was two vans and a pickup. And they just

start unloading equipment right next to the fifth wheel. And one of them come up and start, to talk to me and I was like you need to get the hell out of here. I didn't give you, you know, you're trespassing on private property. Your, your people were over there uninvited, unpacking equipment that I did not say you could unpack and all for what? So you can walk around the woods, yelling at the top of your lungs and banging sticks with trees. You need to pack up and get out of here. There's a private property. I didn't invite you and I'm going to call the sheriff to get the sheriff out here. And they packed up and left. And, And then, of course, they said, well, your friend invited us out.

We were here yesterday. And that's when I found out that my cousin had already had people out there. So he and I are still on shaky terms. And this was, you know, back in 2014. I thought he took advantage of what I told him. And I told him not to tell anybody else. And if he did, I'd deny it. And, yeah.

Then because of that, I felt very wary of telling anybody else. I don't want to be on TV. I don't want, you know, I, I, I'm not trying to, I asked you not to use my real name because I don't want notoriety from this. I am telling, I agreed to come on your show as a warning to people that in my experience, these are not big, kind, fuzzy forest creatures. These things are killers and they would have tore me apart if I had given them the reason to. They could have done it anyway, but these are not tame little animals that you can turn into pets.

These are feral creatures. And I don't want anybody going out to where this had happened. First of all, because it's right next to a national park. And I don't want people getting hurt. These things are to seriously hurt me. And I don't want people getting hurt. That's good advice. It's really, really good advice.

How did this affect you after this encounter? We sold the property. I never wanted to go back out there again. I only went, when I did go out, we only, I probably went out there two more times after this happened, once to watch my husband or my uncle fill in the hole. And the second time to put a padlock on the gate and to get in contact. Luckily, the person who sold me the property was somebody that I knew. I knew him well.

He was willing to just forego the deal like it never happened. And he reimbursed me the money that I had put as a down payment on the property. He understood. He didn't say whether or not he had had experiences. just said something happened out there. I don't feel safe and I don't want to, there's no way I can live there. And I'm never going back out there again. So there's no point to be buying it. And he got it. You know, he said, okay, if that's the way you feel. And so that all worked out. We're still friends to this day. I've never talked to him about the

experience. We sold the property. And I can, I still, I'm wary. I still go to the woods. I don't ever go by myself. I realize that. that every weapon that I had with me, there's probably nothing that would have done any good against it. I still enjoy hiking with my wife, and I definitely take my dogs with me as an early warning sign. The sidearm I carry now is a Desert Eagle 50-Cal, because I figure if any handgun has the ability to puncture a hole, if it's possible, it's going to be that 50-Cal. I'm wary in the woods. I only go places where there's large groups of people or There's a lot of normal, you know, amounts of people that are there.

I don't think these things tend to go at least from one experience I had. I was the only one out there. I think that if it's in like campgrounds or parks like on the Sandy River where lots of people congregate, it's in the woods, but it's, you know, a lot of people there. I don't think they really bother too many people. They're not going to make their presence known. I tend to only move through the woods when my dogs are with me, when I'm armed and when I'm not by myself. I still enjoy fishing.

I still enjoy camping, but I camp where there's a lot of other people camped. I no longer go out in the middle of nowhere by myself anymore. I did not expect this to happen. It changed my outlook on how to keep. keep myself safe. How to keep my loved ones safe. So it's like your world changes. You have to ship your worldview whenever you have a face-to-face encounter with these

things. As I'm sure you know, it's like my new paradigm is the way I saw the world plus this. I didn't see any of the other things that people have equated. There were no UFO sightings. And I had been living out there for a month and a half. There were no strange lights in the sky. There was no orbs. There was no smell.

I didn't get that smell that people talk about. I didn't get any of that. So maybe every experience is different. My worldview is the same with these things are out there, and I'm not sure what they are. Yeah, and we talked about it earlier, John. And I ask everyone what do you think Sasquatch is? And there's no wrong answer.

But what does your gut tell you as for? is what these things are. It's like I explained to you earlier, if you look at old documentaries or even new documentaries on the evolution of like our ancient, ancient ancestors, we are a spoke off that tree,

homo sapiens, sapiens, human beings, Deanderthals, Cromagin man, giganapithecus, I don't know that that's what this is. If you go back, astropythicus, all these different hominid species that have branched off, most of them died out or been killed out.

I think that this was just another branch off of this path that Homo sapiens sapiens are on that did not die out and was not killed out. I believe we share a common ancestor way back before either one of us, and lots of things have branched off of this through evolution of man. and I think this is just another branch off. It's not us. It's not, it never was us. It's just another branch off of the long, sordid history of humankind.

I don't think it's ever going to evolve into us. I don't think we're ever going to evolve into it. It's just another offshoot of this family tree of ours. And it was probably thought that it died out a long time ago, and it didn't. I don't think it's, something that's been discovered through fossil records or, you know, I don't think we know anything about it. I think that the things that we do know about, this isn't it. But I think that this is

in the same neighborhood. Yeah, and you could be right, John. You definitely could be right. And I admire you for the way you handled this situation. And thank you again for your service to our country. And just how you dealt with the whole thing. You know, I think it is a great warning. Your encounter is definitely a great warning to people out there. I think some people think that, you know, these things are friendly forest giants, and I assure you, if you approach one, you're going to find out real quick, they're not. Yeah. I don't want to go looking for them.

I could go the rest of my life and never see it again, and I would be just fine. I don't think people should go looking for them. I am not a superhero, but I'm pretty level-headed. the military taught me to be, I was not prepared for what I encountered, and I don't think that anybody, as much preparation as these research or so-called research organizations think that they are, you're not prepared to deal with these things that they decide that they don't want you there. But yeah, I hope that everyone is careful. Like I said, I'm not seeking notoriety. I came on your show because I started listening to it a few weeks ago, and I like what you have to say. I like what the people that you have on the show say. I think that you treat them with respect. And I don't think that you are the type of researcher that goes out there

just whacking sticks against trees and yelling and acting a fool. Because all I think that those people are doing is driving them off. You're not going to get a siding that way. They're going to avoid you like the plague. But you respect people, Wes, and I appreciate that. And you are now the third person I've told this story, too. and I'll probably never tell it again. This was very therapeutic for me to share it with you.

What you choose to do with it is what you choose to do with it, what anybody chooses to do with it is up to them. And now I can put it behind me and move past it. Yeah, well, thank you for the kind words. And thank you so much, John. I'm honored you, you would share it with me and with the audience. Thank you again for coming on. I really enjoyed chatting with you.

Thank you. Have a good night. You as well, John. And that's it for tonight. Everyone, remember if you've had an encounter, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. If you get a chance, check out Sasquatch Chronicles.com. You can become a member and get additional shows.

Until next time, everyone.