Sasquatch Chronicles - SC EP:83 Sasquatch encounter on the mountain

Episode Date: March 2, 2015

Tonight we speak to Alex who had an encounter as a young man during a hiking expedition. Years later he had another encounter while skiing. These encounters have changed his life. Alex discusses the behaviors and what he saw.

Five, five, four, four, three, three, two, one, one. When I had come down this hill, I had seen this creature cross the road. They would have ripped my locked door from my truck, extracted me from my vehicle, and they know what a damn thing I could have done about it. This thing I got to notice in its eyes. His eyes was real, real evil, real sinister looking. You know, the look it was given me.

See you. Get somebody out here. This is about six foot. Yes, I'm looking right at him. Sasquatch Chronicle, a place where people share their accounts. Let's start the show. Welcome to the show, everyone. If you get a chance, please visit us at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. You'll find additional shows, additional content up there at the site.

So if you get a chance, please go on there, check us out. Again, it's Sasquatch Chronicles.com. I know on Monday night, Shannon has her show tomorrow night. On Tuesday, we're going to be doing a show where we'll be inviting two different guests on Tom and Chris to talk about their encounters with Sasquatch. So look for that up on the site. Tonight's going to be an interesting night. We're going to talk with Alex, and Alex has had a couple encounters with Sasquatch.

He was with an expedition company out there in Oregon, and they had actually. Actually, there was the first time he had ever come across one of these things. So I want to welcome Alex to the show. So tell me about the very first encounter that you had. You were with this expedition company. Sounds like they took you under their wing and brought you along in the beginning with them. Well, I was the director's son's best pal. We tagged along, and they had a huge amount of trust in us.

They took us on some pretty intense experiences, and they just said, you either deal with this or you don't. You know, if you start to feel like you're out of your element, you know, let us. But we, you know, we toughened up pretty quick. We started doing that about age nine, and I did it for a couple of years. Then I started doing my own stuff with my big brother. Tell me that, yeah, where did the first experience happen and kind of walk me through what happened? Well, the Forest Service maintains a series of shelters throughout the, you know, the Western Cascades, and they're just primitive.

They're people to use. There are three-walled sheds, basically, with an open side that faces the fire pit. And inside, they have these big white decks that are, you know, you can use for a table or you can sleep on them. It's kind of like these built-in bunk. I do recall the name of it, and I actually found it on the map again. is really in a very remote place. You have to hike into it. We were with about four other and three guides

that were being developed and checked our equipment in, set up can. They cut us boys loose. We grabbed these walking sticks and sharpen them into spears. And, you know, we were kind of, you know, we were just cut loose. So this friend of mine and I walked up this valley, heavily vegetated.

It was kind of just a swath of, area where the big timber wasn't growing, so there must have been a lot of water there. It was meadow. And we noticed these big drag marks, you know, a bunch of drag marks and straight lines where the grass was torn up down to the dirt. We saw these logs pile, teepee kind of a shelter where they were just kind of an apex tree. And we knew that was strange. There's some pretty strong men up here to drag these big logs. They're about a foot diameter. We're big. We knew that it was not natural. We knew that it was very strange. It just didn't make sense. We were discussing

what should we do? Should we go check it out? We started to walk back and we said, you know what, let's go check it out. We just have to check it out. My buddy was, he, I stayed a few, I stayed about 20 yards away and he

approached her real quietly and actually climbed up in one of the logs and shimmied up to the top where all these, you know, the apex point of this thing was. And he was looking down at it. And he was looking at something intently for a couple of minutes. And I knew he was, I know, and suddenly he just stood up, threw his stick in the air, ran down the log, and he was just, he just had this pure fright on his face. And he just said, run, run, run.

And he just ran past me, went right through the, I mean, right through the bushes to the trail. And we sprinted all the way back to camp. and he just ran up to his dad and grabbed him in a hug and it was just sobbing, sobbing and shaking. And I came running, you know, I came running behind him. And they were like, what happened? What's going on? Are you guys okay? What's going on?

His son was just sobbing. They couldn't control him. He was shaking. And they took me off to the side. I was like, what's going on here? You know, what would you guys get into? And I said, I don't know. We found this structure that had been built by something.

It wasn't a very good structure. I mean, a man would have done a better job of this thing. Big logs. Beautiful weather in the summertime. And they finally calmed this kid down after about 15 minutes. He finally controlled his breathing and his nerves. And he explained what he had seen. He said he kind of shimmied up on all four.

fours on this log and he looked down inside he said there then he realized it was holding a stick and it was digging out the sides of the dirt around the sides of the structure. He was using a stick

and he was watching it and he could smell it and it just smelled like animal and he could hear it breathing, you can hear it hunting and kind of puffing. He was working and so he decided to

decided to whistle at it. And he said the thing stood 180 degrees as it stood up and was literally face to face with him, like a foot away. And he said he just absolutely just, he said he's never had anything to their eye to eye. And he said the thing opened his mouth a little bit with a little bit of like a, and it stood up, it stood up like a man. It wasn't a bear. It didn't have a snoot. We know bears. and it looked him in the eye and he was you know he he he fled

and for good reason how old were you guys Alex how old were you guys at that point we were 10 or 11 years old at that point but we've been doing this for quite a while with this group you know we're I was I was raising this well I'm kind of curious when it stood up was it about his size is that what he was saying or was it bigger much bigger than him He was on top of the structure looking down at it.

So he was 7, 8 feet in the air. And he was kind of crouched down, looking down into it. And it stood up and looked right into his face. Oh, wow. And he said it opened its mouth, and he said he could smell its breath. It started to exhale on him. They were right face to face. And it freaked him out.

I've tried to talk to him. You know, 20 years later, I brought it up with them. And he said, don't even go there, dude. I've had dreams. I've had dreams of my life about this. Did he describe what it looked like at all, or was he too upset at the time? We didn't know about that much at that time. It wasn't, you know, really something that had ever been.

He said it was just hair. There was no snoot like a bear, no ears like a bear, and the eyes were different. Bears have beady little black eyes. kind of skunk eyes. Little skunk eyes. And, Dad, I mean, he said it actually

had, it made an expression and it started to kind of breathe out like it was about to, like, scream at him or something or bite him or something. He said his mouth slowly opened, and he knew that he was in serious trouble. So we got back,

they calmed him down, and asked him what happened. We were supposed to be there for three nights or two nights and three days. days. And the director, this ex-Greenberrails, took a rifle in the army cases everywhere we went. And they discussed everything. And they said, well, we're going to stay the night. And we're just going to hope for the best here. We don't want to leave. We spent hours. My buddy actually ended up sleeping on the ground under his dad's bed. And he wouldn't come out.

he wouldn't come out after that I mean after he went to bed you know there was no horse around he didn't join people around the fire he was in there he was terrified and he was messed up yeah I don't blame him yeah so it got late

we went to we went to sleep because we you know we were tired we done a lot of work that day guys they tend to be crack at dawn guys you know as soon as the sun's up you know it's time to time to move and these guys woke us up before dawn

shortly before dawn. It was just, this guy was just starting to get a little blue in it. And he said, boys, boys, wake up. We're leaving now. We've got to go. He said, okay, yeah, we're happy to leave.

And we noticed that his, for once, actually, in all these years, he had his rifle out of the case. And the van driving away, and his dad turned up, he said, guys, listen, something was walking around our camp last night.

Something very big. He was going around and round and round and round all night. So we're going to go back to the base camp. It's fully rich. And I'm going to get some sleep and talk some people there about this. And that was it. That's what happened. He was, you know, we weren't so cavalier about just running a muck in the woods after that.

He was very cautious. It took him about a week to kind of settle down. And the guys who built these... So this base camp, they had a ropes course where they limb and they top these big trees and they make kind of these rope courses, like these rope courses, kind of like an Ewok village. They have all these nets and tight ropes with handholds. And, you know, it's guide training. And the guys they had built that with these two Indian loggers who built out this course for it.

One of the Indian guys came up to tell me exactly what you saw. And he said, yeah, yeah, I see them. a little one one time. And it was almost crying. He said, where I grew up, we could hear their calls at night. But he said, you were brave. That's interesting that he, one of the guides came forward. And that's just interesting that he came forward and said,

hey, tell me what you saw. And he came across the little one. He said a little one was crying? Yeah, he said when he was younger in the logging days, that would probably place him back in the 50s or early 50s, maybe. He said, yeah, he came across a, little one. It kind of curled up like it thought it was it was doomed and then it he got closer to it and the thing just jumped up and ran off. And he said it was like it was

like it was a child, definitely a child when they're babies but he said you know they're when they get big they're not cute anymore. And so I've always I've always learned you know ever since this this whole thing came on to my came into my thinking. I've always knowing these things are not warm, fuzzy, hairy, and the henderson's. You know, these are not, these are wild animals. I have a lot of respect for wild animals. They have bad days too. You know, they have bad days.

When they feel threatened, they manifest it. They let you know. They don't want you in the area. They let you know. They let you know. And they really don't like dogs. Forward about five or six years when I have my driver's license. I used to interest in a big ranch out of them.

So I used to drive back and forth between Eugene and Bend. And there's an old highway 242, and it's only a seasonal highway. And they built it on top of the old stage line between the two towns. And orange gates, they swing down. And, you know, you can drive up as far as those gates. And then you just see just a wall of snow, you know, end of road. So I had another buddy In my team

We were pretty avid climbers And we used to do a lot of what's called peak bagging We just go and we climbed all the Cascades Almost all the different routes available You know, that's how we spent our time We didn't go to parties You know, we were real outdoorsy And we were just really on fire with this stuff

We were constantly planning our next trip In high school And as soon as school got out of 2 o'clock on Friday, we go home and get our gear and then get on the road, go do this stuff. But we got into our heads one time. This is in May of 1980 to be the first winter, our names in the Summit Logbook for that year. We thought it was cool. So we left early. It was a heavy snow year.

So we left and went up that 242. And then we came to the wall of snow And we parked the car and left it right there In the snow and put on our packs And our mountaineering skis, which are basically Cross-country skis with a, you know, pivoting heel And you can go over the snow pretty efficiently that way.

To climb middle sister, you know, we had a long approach now Since the road was closed for the most part. So we started off, you know, about sundown Friday night. You know, it was a clear night. moon and there's a series of switchback that gets you up to this high plateau where the base of these three sisters flogging up this road it was miles it was late in the late in the snow season so there been some freeze thaw cycle was developing where you know you had like a half inch of

pretty good ice on top then you'd fall through into this duff down below so it was hard we uh we were well to the night, two, three in the morning, starting to get up to the high altitude, to get off the road and then start going overland through the woods, then up to timber line, then up onto the glaciers to the summit. And it's around the high plateau and right rear out of the valley, and I know that there's a lake back. There's actually a bunch of creek systems. We heard these screaming howls, roars, and real far away, they were echoing, getting to us,

you know, by echoes at first. You know, after a few minutes, we heard them more, and they seem to be getting closer. And what do you think that is? And my buddy's just like, I'm not sure I want to know. Let's keep going. Let's pick up the pace here and try to get in front of it. And maybe it'll, you know, maybe it's not, doesn't know we're here, and there's two getting into a fight or something. We kept on going, huffing and puffing and it was getting closer.

It was definitely getting closer. We stopped, we said, whatever that is, it's dialed. It's screaming at us. I think it's one. I don't think there's, we have to be careful because there's echoes in that canyon. We were pretty sure it was one.

And he kept going. Picked up the pace big time. We were really trying to get away from this thing. It was real close. We could hear it 100 feet away. We could hear it popping through the crusty snow. it was pretty loud

and they were the footfalls were you know two-legged and you know scrunch could hear it and it was getting closer and closer and we were just like oh man it's here

dude it's here what are we gonna do just keep going you know we were skiing as fast I guess the DOT or somebody whoever maintains that road in the summertime they left a grating machine up there that's all packed in snow

except for the little glass just a glass box really sticking up and it was getting too close, and it was keeping up. You could hear it run ahead a little bit, and it was running around in the tree line, and it's all big timber. It's all hemlock and Dougford at that climate zone.

We could hear it breathing. It was breathing hard. We could hear kind of this real low gutter, really horrible, but it was big. But really sticks in my mind is the power of it screams. and the volume, it would just shake your insides. It was just absolutely. So we decided to, you know, we decided, well, we can't outrun this thing.

What are we going to do? The trees. In the summertime, it probably would have started chucking away, and there's no rocks to be had. And it tore a couple branches down off the tree, and they weren't small branches. There was, like, big branches. And it started, and it was beating on a tree with one. and it was hitting it hard light toward us and we were just like, what is, what is going to happen here?

And we said we have to get defenses here. We have to do something. Let's break into that grading machine. So we broke into that, you know, kicked in a window. And we were both sitting back to back in that glass box. We had nothing but like ski poles and Swiss Army knives. That's all we had. You know, it was pathetic.

Jesus. And this thing was, we could hear it moving around, screaming, making these really strange, these really strange throat growl with some kind of like, almost like a whimpering,

almost like a frustrated whimper. And it was really odd. It was, we didn't know what to think. And then we were there for hours, just shaking. We were literally shaking. And then it moved off.

We stopped hearing it. and it didn't scream as it left, like it screamed when it approached. It didn't make any sounds when it left. It just kind of left. And he was getting, we're like, we got to do something. We got to do something.

Let's get it. Let's go up and climb middle sister. Get it, get this thing done. I think it's gone. It's left. So we skied on up to the place where the trail hit is that goes in at a, you know, about a two or three o'clock diagonal off the road.

And they had bridges for this trail. And when you have heavy snowfall, one of the most dangerous things you can do is ski close to a creek because the overhanging snow can break away, and you're in the water now. And it's overhung on both sides. You really can't get out. They're really dangerous.

And you don't get near creeks in heavy snow in the wintertime. and we went up this trail, we got to the bridge, and we looked over and we saw these tracks, about 40 feet to the right, walked down to the creek, and it simply just walked down through the snow, across the creek, and there are two big steps coming up out of it,

and the snow was all disturbed around it, and it just went right through that like it wasn't anything, just like there was no sense of, danger when it did that. It just walked across the creek. It does it every day. And we skied over and looked the tracks, and they're beautiful tracks. They were beautiful toe prints. You could see where it had dragged its toes between the steps on the surface of the snow. You could see everything. It was really, and they were big. I'm going to say, you know, 17, 18 inches, and they were deep. They were punching down about two feet into the snow.

whereas our feet, you know, we're only going about six. It was big and it's heavy. And what do you think it's going? It's almost like, like it kind of. Let me ask you, on the tracks, how far apart were each step looking back to you? They were five or six feet. They were huge.

Yeah, it was marching through the woods just like nothing. And it ran around. It wasn't daunted by these conditions at all. I mean, it was clear out. It was late snow. It probably wasn't going to snow anymore that year. So we, and then they veered off to the right, to our perpendicular, you know, to the right. We thought, well, that's a good sign.

We kept on going. We got above tree line. We started to make these zigzag traverses to stay high in the ridge lines. You want to stay up the glaciers when there's that much snow. You can't tell if there's a crevasse underneath it or not. You stay up where you know the ridges are, and that's where the, and that was the weekend that Mount St. Helens went. We got up over the ridge.

We heard two booms. About a half hour later, we got up over the ridge, and we looked to the north, and we could see St. Helens. And it's actually just as weird as all the rest, that we saw St. I can't imagine. That's how you felt. We both just said, you know what? I've seen enough, so.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't blame you. We just turned our skis downhill. We had to, you know, we, we, We were avid skiers. We skied like madmen to get out of there. We stopped and looked at the tracks there by the bridge again.

And we were just shaking our heads like, what the hell? Is this real? And we skied on down, but we got down to the machine where we broke into. And this time we had daylight. We started looking around all over the woods. There were tracks everywhere. There's still only one, I think. You were just like, what happened?

What just happened last night? So we skied on down to the car. We got in the car. And we're usually pretty talkative guys with each other because we're best friends. But I remember it was a very quiet trip home. And my buddy just said, whatever that was, we didn't imagine that. What do we do? Could we talk to somebody?

Should we talk to the Rangers? If we talk to your dad because he's a biology professor, who should we talk to? But I think we're lucky that we came out of that. And we pulled it to my house. My dad came out on the front porch and said, you know, he had a little frantic look on his face. He said, I'm glad to see you, boys. The St. Helens is going off right now, and Portland is under ash, and there's all kinds of problems. I-5 shut down.

I'm glad you guys are back. So the conversations kind of tell my dad for about two weeks. I'm kind of curious what your dad had to say about it. He just kind of listened politely and shook his head and said, yeah, all right, well, I'm glad you guys are okay. And I said, Dad, you know, listen, we saw these track. And, you know, I'll draw them, you know, in real scale, a piece of paper. He said, no, you don't need to do that.

You know, and I never really learned if he was being polite. He's a pretty rigorous scientist. He needs, you know, he doesn't really look. look at something unless there's physical evidence. But I said, Dad, there is physical. You don't know if there are snowshoers.

I'm like, these weren't snowshoe tracks. The snow shoe tracks are snow shoe tracks. These were feet. These had toes. These had heels. They were, they were, and these long strides. It was a big animal.

But the thing is, right before we broke into that snow machine, we could see its shape in the tree line. because when you have a clear night like that, the snow just reflects all the available light. And there is quite a bit of light. So that was, that was, you know, we saw it. I never saw any features. I never saw any eyes.

I didn't see any face. But it was moving around. You could see it moving around. And it was really, it was really aggressive. It was really, really aggressive, and it was keyed in on us, and there was no question that it locked on to us a long time before it got close to us. And it was very unhappy that we were there, and it was letting us know that you need to get out of here.

We're the first people in that part of the season for the season. And it was mind-boggling, absolutely mind-boggling. I know exactly. I've studied the area pretty close, I know that there's a lot of water in there. There's a major valley that the 242 goes up. It's just a corridor right down to the McKenzie River. There's a whole bunch of tributary creeks in that area.

It makes you wonder if there was just one of you guys, if it would have been a different story as opposed to two. Because even though they seem aggressive, it's almost kind of a cautious, I mean, they'll come in on you, and it makes me wonder what would happen if it would have just been yourself out there. Yeah, that's interesting too

because we didn't have a chance. If this thing really wanted to hurt us, we didn't have a chance, we knew it. We knew we were on the menu. It was absolutely terrifying. And I had bad dreams for years about this. I can still hear it. I can still hear, it's really,

roaring screams. I can still hear it. I know exactly what they sound like. And... Yeah, and for people listening, they don't... It's hard to grasp that when, you know, someone just saying that. But I've heard what you've heard, and I know exactly what you mean. I mean, you can hear it. You can feel it as much as you hear it. I mean, when they blast you with it. Yeah, and it makes your body tremble.

It just shakes you. The sound is such a wall of sound hitting you. and it's intimidating. These things are the king of the forest. I'm... Yeah. You know, they... They've been the king of forest for a long time. And there's a reason why when you go into really, really remote places where people have not been,

and you come across deer and elk, they're naturally timid if you're walking upright. Think about that. They don't know anything about it. Yeah, that's true. You know, they're naturally timid for a reason. These things hunt, these things are the apex predators, and I'm sure, I'm sure Grizzlies stand down to them. I'm sure they do.

These things are, the size of the one I saw was utterly huge. And we were freaked. You know, we were freaked. It was, it was, we changed after that. We were really cautious. we always questioned, you know, is what we're about to do really smart, you know. I mean, we're going into some remote areas like north of Mount Jefferson, to the west of Jefferson, there's not a whole lot of access.

I mean, to climb Mount Jefferson, the closest you can get where the vehicle is 16 miles, and that's a four-wheel drive vehicle. It's not like the Three Sisters, but there's a whole ton of trail. And this is, you know, this is what I like about your show, West. is that people are speaking about these things for what they are. These are wild animals, like other animals. They feel threatened and they push back. They know they rule the night.

You know, these are not warm, fuzzy creatures that you want to walk out in the woods with a bag of apples with, you know. You're not going to shake hands with one of these things. Yeah, you're not. And that's what most people, I mean, I think people who have had legitimate encounters, I think realize really quick that that's just not going to happen. I think a lot of people who have it in their mind that they're friends with them

and they run on their property and it's just not reality with these things. I mean, like you said, they have short tempers. You know, they're really quick to confront you like you found out. I mean, they're not going to run from a fight. They're going to come and bring it to you. You know, like you said, being on the menu, I get that. I completely get what you're saying. I think the subject is going to be blown wide open here sooner than later.

I think it's about to happen. I hate to say it, but there's no good outcome for anybody involved. It's going to get weird. No one's, you know, whoever does this, you know, whoever brings in a chunk of a specimen or whatever, their lives are not going to go well thereafter. They're going to be hounded and dogged. And this is what I kind of want to have a private talk with you about, Wes, is that, you know, we've got to talk about this because I don't want this to ruin my life.

And at the same time, you know, I talk to people about this. And this is kind of a big deal to me. And when I, in recollecting what happened is kind of bringing up this deep, deep upwelling of stuff that was really hard to put away. I spent years trying to put this away and get it out of my sister. And you don't, you know, you don't. Yeah, it never goes away. It really doesn't.

No, and it changes you. And I feel bad, you know, every time I read about somebody who, you know, like John Bithel in Oregon, he went on a two-week fishing trip, you know, and he put in, you know, his trailhead he used, was right there at Shale Rock, Camp Ground, or something. And a month before, you know, campers were ran out of there by an aggressive encounter. They ran out, including the Ranger. They ran out of camp. And then two weeks, and then a month later, John Bissell decides to go into that area,

right into his backyard and go in there solo for two weeks. And now he's gone. He's gone. Not a treat. and there are a lot of caves up there. I know these lava tubes. There's a lot of caves up there. My dad is actually a hot spring specialist.

He's a thermophilic microbiologist. And he had access to the first Lansat images back in the 60s. And he would get access to those. And that was how I grew up quite a bit, was chasing down these, you know, these unknown hot springs all over the cascades. There's a bunch of them. And we'd go up there and he'd take his samples and these little, he had his kit with them. And we go, you know, we didn't use trails.

We used map and compass and did Dead Reckoning and Overland Travel. I think as this comes out, I think it's going to come out, like you said. It's eventually going to come out whether someone's going to end up bringing one in regardless. And you're right. I don't think that it's a lot easier said than done. But I think a lot of things will change. You know, I've talked to state biologists in Washington and in Oregon that are told not to go into areas alone. Man, they are, you know, they're told all kinds of reasons. Well, there's a rogue bear in the area. Well, we have black bear. I mean, for the most part of Black Bear will run from you. I don't think I've ever had an aggressive Black Bear encounter. I'm not saying that doesn't happen. But for the most part, a Black Bear, As soon as they see in the area or they get a whiffoia or anything, they're gone and they'll take off. Then the story will change and they're told, well, there's a crazy person out there. And, you know, just a lot of, you know, I think the public's ready for this to come out and say, hey, there's these wild animals out there.

They, you know, can be aggressive and can be very dangerous. And so here's what you can do and here's what not to do. And if you come across one that's, you know, and just kind of tell the public what to do when they come across. I don't think that it's, I don't think there has to be so much, you know, obviously it's, it's going to come out that it's most likely a primate, which creates problems. But I think for the most part, the public's ready for this to come out. I think for the most part, most people realize this thing's out there.

Most people realize this is going on in the national forest. This is going on in our forest. You know, it's going to come out eventually. it's in when it does all the crazy stories about the telepathy and the cloaking and I think a lot of those people are going to almost be embarrassed for saying you know if they're going to it's going to be you know it's going to come out that it's nothing more than a wild animal dangerous wild animal out there and I think a lot of people are going to probably not only eat crow but if you were told you and your friend before skiing in that area

hey, you know, there's Sasquatch in this area. They're known to be aggressive. Be careful when you go in this area. You probably would have looked at it a little bit differently when you were there. Yeah, yeah. It's something that we did routinely up in the woods. We never even thought about this. We rarely even thought about bears because I, you know,

my dad is one of the main in Yellowstone too. And I've been around bears. And my dad told me that bears, bears brains and behaviors are a lot like a dog. It's like they're like naughty dogs that get out and that chew through their rope. They roam the neighborhood, knock it over trash cans. He's like, they're just like that. They just want to, they're just pigs. They're one-dimensional.

And he said, you know, don't back down. Just make yourself big and loud. But he says, you know, when you go into Yellowstone Park, they hand you a pamphlet about what to do if you come across the bear. And he said, that's just the dumbest thing, what they actually tell people to do to play dead. you know, walking away quietly is the best thing to do. But he said, what he does is he takes along a pot, two pots, you know, for camping pots.

He said, if he comes across the berry, starts banging them together because they don't hear that. They don't hear metallic sounds in the wild, and they hate that sound. It really just unnerves them, and they want to get away from that. But he said at night, the best thing to do is to pop a road flare and wave it around. So they've never seen that kind of bright pink light before at night and they don't know what to think about it they move off, they're cautious

but he said it's the hissing sound that it makes too that freaks him out. He's just little things like that. He said they just tell people that you know, it'd be way easier than playing dead. You know, and it's the whole finding Bigfoot, the BFRO crew is, you know, the message

is wrong, you know, and putting the subject of this species out as abject entertainment for the masses is just wrong. Now you have kids, now you have 11 year old,

now you have 12 year old kids going out looking for these things. The dumbest thing in the world. And they're gone out there and they're whooping, tree knocking. It's like, no, you don't do that.

You don't do that. You don't, you know, when you're in the wilderness, you always mitigate your risk. And that's the thing with these things. A lot of people, you know, they, you know, treat these things like the general forest giants. And like yourself, I mean, anyone who's had a legitimate encounter, that's just not the case.

It's just, it's not, it's not reality. Will these things up and leave the area when you're there most of the time? Yeah, I would say a lot of times they do, but, you know, they're very short tempers and they're very territorial. A lot of times they won't just get up and leave. A lot of times they'll make you leave. And then there's confrontations, you know, like you mentioned with the fishermen. who just went up and missing. If people knew how many people just vanish out there in the woods,

I think people would be shocked that just up and vanish. Now you can put a portion of those people that maybe the elements got him, maybe other wild animals got them. But even in those situations, you don't just vanish. There's always some sort of, well, he fell into the river, or, you know, there's always something. If you get attacked by a cougar or most people are going to put up a fight, you know, there's going to be some sort of evidence of them left over.

And the amount of people that just vanish, I think people would be shocked. In Oregon, Texas, Washington, that just go missing and completely vanish and they bring dogs in and they won't track the person, it's astounding. It's astounding how many people just go missing and vanish. and there's no database. No one maintains a database or anything. No.

You know, once you cross that line into the national forest property or the parks or the USF property, you're going, you're stepping off the edge of the earth. The only thing, you know, we have these little satellite transponders that are kind of our own little secret thing, and they're small. They clip onto your body. And it's kind of like an e-perb, you know, for an overboard fisherman. in Alaska. It doesn't turn off

unless you, and they're waterproof, they're really tough. So, you know, people need to at least have those attached. And that way we'll still get a ping. We'll still get a very accurate ping

within five feet. But, you know, I mean, these technologies exist. I mean, at least tell people, you know, at least the message should be like,

listen, you are going into harm's way when you go into the wilderness. Here's something you should wear with you all the time. Just for the same reason, they tell people who go skiing in the back country, wear a transponder, wear an avalanche transponder, because at least we have a chance to find you. But hikers, they have none of that. They have no warnings whatsoever, and it's just as

dangerous, in my opinion, to go into the wilderness without some kind of breadcrumb technology that leads people to you or your body or at least remains of your equipment so people can you know, look at it and get a sense of what happened to you, you know. But this John Bissell, nothing, absolutely nothing. No, no polar tech chunks of fleece, no pieces of sleeping bag, no piece of a snapped, fishing rod, nothing. Alex, I appreciate you coming on the show. Thanks so much. Thank you for sharing everything.

Yeah, you're very welcome. Keep doing a good job, Wes. You guys are great. Keeping across the country faster than the coronavirus and Wagering Week is your antidote. I'm Tom Barton and I'm a veteran sports analyst and respected sports handicapper who will help build ESPN's brand. I've been recognized and awarded by Pro Football Weekly and Gaming Today magazine as the honest handicapper. Let the other guys give you the same old boring sports talk with the same tired storylines. We'll give it to you straight here every Friday on Wagering Week.

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