Sasquatch Chronicles - SC EP:844 Retired Detective And Former MUFON Director

Episode Date: April 11, 2022

The listener writes "I'm a regular listener to your podcast and find it very informative. On one of your recent shows, I believe you mentioned getting a Ufologist, Paranormal Researcher, and Cryptid Investigator together in order to compare notes on the potential similarities/ connections within all three fields. During my tenure with MUFON, I investigated many sightings to include the abduction phenomenon. I found that many of those cases had elements of the paranormal associated with them, which intrigued me. I then began investigating the paranormal with the Center for Paranormal Research and Investigation (CPRI), also in Virginia. I've investigated many cases. Some involved negative entities or the "demonic". One of these cases was featured on an episode of "A Haunting" entitled "Mark of Evil". That was a rather serious/ horrific case that changed my life dramatically.

It looked like somebody was bent over and had their head in the window of the deer blind. It either heard me or smelt me, and he pulled his head out of the tent and stood straight up. That shocked me. They don't make people that big. The way it moved, almost as if it was gliding across the beach. I've never seen anything moved like that in my life. What's what? They were screaming at each other in gibberish.

It sounded like a language and they were chumtering away back and forwards, back and forwards, back and forwards. I know what a bear looks like and there is no way on this planet but what I saw were bears. What are you reporting? Jesus, get somebody out here. What's going on now, sir? That son of a bitch is about six foot nine. I don't know. Do you see a counselor?

Yes, I'm looking right here. Uh-uh. Hey, this is Luke Griggs, and you are listening to Sasquatch Chronicles. Welcome to the show, everyone. Thanks for being here tonight. Got a great show plan for you. We're going to be chatting with Rick Artisan. He's from Virginia, and he actually started out with Mufon.

He's a former police officer, former detective, and started doing work for Mufon back. in the 90s and he really started noticing weird paranormal stuff going on in these UFO encounters. From that point on, he went to the CPRI, which is the Center for Paranormal Research and Investigation in Virginia and started looking into hauntings and demonic activity. And Rick and his wife eventually started the North American Dogman Project in Virginia and started looking into these weird cryptid sightings people are seeing. And, you know, as Rick and I were talking, he said, you know, on a previous show, you would mention that you would like to have a UFO guy on,

a paranormal guy, and a cryptid guy to all kind of compare notes. And he said, I do see crossover elements to these different genres. So I invited Rick on tonight to touch the surface. all three of these subjects. If you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email address is West at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. And if you get a chance, check out Sasquatch Chronicles.com, you can become a member and get additional shows.

Let's jump into it tonight. I want to welcome Rick to the show. Rick, thanks for coming on. My pleasure. Thanks for having me. Yeah, I really appreciate you being here. And I kind of give a quick bio of kind of your life. If you would, though, for the audience, kind of give us your background.

I mean, tell us about your experience with Mufon and how did you get into that? It was, I started working from Mufon around 1992. At present, I'm a retired law enforcement officer, retired detective. And I've got about 28 years service in that. But just as far as the timeline goes, I just started into the UFO field in 1992 and became a member of Mufon. And I was looking at Mufon because they're more data-oriented, scientific-oriented. Their investigations are based on data and scientific analysis and using the scientific method.

And I started investigating with them and investigated numerous UFO sightings. And then I got into the abduction field and investigated several abduction cases. I think it was five years into my tenure stint with Mufon and became the state director for Virginia. And I started organizing investigations and organizing operations and so forth. And I think I organized a multi-state Mufon operation in Pine Bush, New York, back in 1994. And we were working together in using and trying to, you know, use triangulation technology to try to determine where these objects were, if they moved, how fast, you know, how, you know, we would calculate points from, you know, when they would move to another point and then calculate distance and

time and try to, you know, obtain a speed and trajectory and all that. So that was a pretty good project. Unfortunately, we didn't get anything anomalous. And, but we did, you know, we sat around, we, you know, talked about the subject and certain aspects of euphology and so forth. And it was very informative. But from then on, you know, I started looking into cases, Mufon's, I started investigating cases with Mufon that had somewhat of a paranormal stint to them. Specifically, abduction cases. You know, they had the abduction cases and the abductees, and they would experience classical poltergeist activity in their homes and around their persons. You know, of course, they have the, you know, the dreams of the large grays, large head, grayhead, large black eyes coming to their.

room, you know, they would take them and take them somewhere and examine them physically, do psychological stuff with them. You know, I started seeing a crossover between Lufan and other paranormal fields because of the poltergeist type activity. They would have objects that were moving in their homes. They have, you know, apparitions of people, relatives, or some people that they didn't know. And it was just a hodgepodge of paranormal activities.

specifically poltergeist activity that drew my attention to the paranormal realm. So from there, I went from paranormal, and I started joining another group called the Center for Paranormal Research Investigation, which is in Senate in Virginia. And I joined that organization for the same reason I joined Lufon because they're a scientific-based organization. They use the scientific method. They use data. They don't necessarily want to experience something, but they want to explain the experience and try to learn something from it. And that also drew my attention to that particular group. So I joined them and I'm still a member.

But I found that in the paranormal realm, we would investigate cases that had kind of a cryptic element to them. Bigfoot sightings in certain areas, orb sightings, which pretty much goes hand in hand with certain areas that have Bigfoot or cryptid activity. and I started seeing a lot of that in the paranormal field. And my wife and I decided to start another group, the North American Dogman Project. And we investigate now at this point. We've been investigating dogman activity for the past five years. But we've branched off to other cryptic activity, too, as well as dogman. So we investigate the whole gambit of the three, yes.

Yeah, I appreciate that. That was a better background than I gave, man. It's a bizarre world we live in, isn't it? Very, very weird worlds, very strange. You know, I think I've heard people call it. It's a haunted planet, and that's pretty good analogy. Yeah, and I would like to go back to the UFO thing for a moment. The poltergeist activity you'd mention, that really captures my attention.

The few cases I've been told off the air, even an abduction case, you and I talked about, one of the things that she said was there was poltergeist activity going on in the home. And they had Sasquatch on their property. And I thought, geez, you know, this woman's got everything's going on here. But she had physical evidence of something happened to her, along with her child, along with her husband. but why do you think that all this other stuff goes on like poltergeist activity in a UFO encounter? I don't know. For whatever reason, anytime that an abductee is reporting this stuff or experiencing these so-called quote-unquote abductions,

there is some type of paranormal element to them. Like you said, poltergeist activity. Another thing I caught my attention with regard to the abduction phenomena is there was a state section director in Florida some years back. He was doing a lot of abduction research. He was with Mufon as well. He was just a state section director for a certain area in Florida. And he started having, you know, abductees come up to him and said, well, you know, I was able to stop an abduction account. And he was interested.

He said, well, how did you do this? She said, or they would say, well, we just prayed. And I thought that was rather interesting. So he decided to look into that. And he found more people that were able to stop the abduction phenomenon about praying to God or Christ. And the abduction would stop. In certain cases, the little gray beings would shift in shape into a monstrous little creature and then back into a gray. And then, you know, then they would shake and then all of a sudden it was just disappeared.

I don't know. I thought that was rather interesting. So I started looking into that aspect of it. And, you know, I'm wondering, you know, if these beings are highly technical and their technologies through the roof and they're able to do these things, you know, get people aboard craft or whatever and, you know, unnecise them in some way, shape, or form and do what they do, then that doesn't necessarily denote any type of technology. because, you know, invoking God or Christ does not invoke some type of, it does not involve the technology. It involves some type of belief system on the part of these beings. It's a belief system. You know, people may not believe these things, but apparently these beings that were doing these certain abductions do.

And I was just wondering, you know, if there's just a connection there. And that's another reason why I started getting involved in paranormal, like, you know, investigations and so forth. because I thought, without that, all of that was fascinating, his studies. Yeah, I think I know here you're talking about. I can't remember the guy's name. I know he pissed off a lot of people at Mufon when he started looking into more of the paranormal side of UFOs. And, you know, I'm not religious by any means. And I even struggle with, you know, like Jesus Christ, you know, I'm supposed to believe some guy lived or God came down 3500 years ago.

and I'm supposed to, you know, there's very little evidence that he even existed. But on the same breath, that named Jesus Christ sure seems to, it's like a code in the matrix. It sure seems to have an effect in a lot of different situations. You know, maybe I'm not arrogant, and I'm wrong on many things during the day. And I definitely could be wrong about him existing. invokes a reaction or something. And like I said, a lot of people may not believe that, but apparently these beings or whatever they are, do.

That got me involved in another road. So I got another road of paranormal investigations and looking into that aspect of it. Yeah, it's hard to argue with that. I guess even an atheist will find God on his deathbed. Going back to the UFO abductions, Is there one or two that really stay with you that you've investigated? There was a case.

It was kind of a quasi-abduction case, but it involved everything. Back in, I believe it was around the late summer fall of 2000. We investigated a case in near, what was near Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia. That case involved everything. It involved poltergeist activity, UFO. activity, crop circle activity, cryptid activity. There were, you know, people would,

you know, the family would experience ultra-guise activity in the house, orbs floating up and down the hallway. They would, something, you know, dark would be outside their house, moving around the house. And they would see UFOs, triangular-shaped UFOs.

They would see doctrinal lights, orbs in the woods, woods around the home. They have crop circle phenomena that we were able to obtain some crop circles or some crops from the crop circle, you know, control samples and samples within the crop circle itself. And we're able to send them to the, I think it's Levinson research, and they did an analysis on it when we get into that later.

But, you know, we investigated that case. And they used to hear screams out in the woods around the house. It sounded like a woman being, a woman screaming. and we would set up camp out there and I would hear it in a distance and then, you know, it's just, it was an odd area. There was a lot of quartz crystal I noticed in this particular area on the ground itself. It was full of quartz crystal. And I wondered if that had anything to do with it.

We're retaining energy and so forth and the light phenomena that's being seen and so forth. But, you know, I could never pin that down. But people in the area were also seeing, you know, large. charged big foot-type creatures. You know, one guy, he was, I think it was a couple miles from this particular location. He lived in a house, and he was opening his back door to go inside after he got off of work. And he's had a foul odor. And he turned around and saw this big-foot-type creature standing behind him in the field or adjacent to him in the field, between him and the field.

And he, you know, struggled with the door to get it opened, opened it up and looked back and it was gone. but they had that type of activity too. And the lady of that, the wife, she was experiencing somewhat of a deduction phenomenon. She would wake up and see things in her room, kind of like a little alien graze, I think it was, in some other type of entities. But we investigated that case throughout the summer and that particular fall, and I think they ended up moving away, which is why we discontinued our investigation. but it was hard to pin anything down, you know, as to, as the cause of any of it. It just, you know, it spiked my interest in those areas, and that's another reason why I went to the paranormal route and, you know, subsequently to, you know, to the cryptic route.

The abduction cases, they really, really fascinate me, and I think they fascinate me because as you go throughout history, this has been going on for a long, long time. And depending on what period of time you're in that you're looking at is what they call them. You know, we call them UFOs and aliens today. And a thousand years ago, they called them something else. But what's going on is exactly the same thing. Have you ever talked to anyone that vividly remembers being abducted? You know, they can kind of tell you about the ship and everything like that.

Yeah, I've talked to people, but it's not. It was kind of a, let me say, usually when I interview somebody, I'll interview them two, three, maybe four or five times. Because usually in subsequent interviews, you're able to gather more information than you would before. There's certain reasons for that. You know, you gain a rapport. They get to know you. They start to remember things that they, you know, didn't intentionally, you know, forget or not remember. a lot of these cases, they would end up in what they thought, what they perceived as a ship.

Now, there was no, it was more like a dream rather than a reality, if that makes sense. And it makes me wonder if these beings, you know, would create these environments psychologically or mentally and make them think that they were aboard when they were actually working on them in the home. It makes me wonder if they actually went on board a spacecraft. Now, there are instances, and it's been throughout

the euphological history that people actually went aboard and people actually saw these craft, you know, third parties actually saw these craft, land and depart and so forth. But a lot of these abductees, it's a very fuzzy memory, and it's when they remember

of these things, it's kind of sparse. They remember more later when they start recounting the incident over and over again, they start getting more details. But it makes me wonder if they are actually physically taking a board of craft or they

mentally were, you know, they are able to control their mental impressions to make them think that they were border craft. That's always bother me. A lot of them do have these marks on their bodies and which I thought were interesting. And we had one incident where a gentleman from

Northern Virginia had something in his nose. And it was like a, we had it, we took it into a doctor, had a x-ray. And it was a like a triangular piece, a thin triangular piece of glass maybe or maybe crystal, something, you know, translucent that was in his nasal passage. And when we finally, you know, made arrangements to have it removed. For some reason or another, he had an incident the night before. And when we got him to the doctor, they did another x-ray just to, you know, assess it before they, you know, tried to remove it. And it was gone. And, you know, we, you know, we couldn't understand why or how. But that's one incident that, that I thought was very, very strange.

It is strange. And, you know, a good friend of mine, Tony Merkel, he has a Confessionals podcast. And there was a gentleman who claimed to do 20 years and back. He was in some super secret space program out to Mars and 20 years and back. And there was some weird occult practices going on prior to him having this experience. And it's not physically possible in my mind to go out. live 20 years and then come back into the body of a child. And I remember telling Tony, either this guy's lying, which I don't think he is. And if he is, he should go into Hollywood and start writing screenplays for movies. Or this really happened, or someone put this memory in his mind for him to recall this in such a way as if he was there. It's very strange. And when you hear abduction cases of, you know, some people being lifted up out of their bed, they go through the wall, go out to a ship,

and they're taken, you can't get a human through a wall. I don't, there's a lot of, and it makes me wonder about, and I'm glad you brought up the whole mentally being taken, because that would make more sense, because you can't really get a human being through a wall. You know what I mean? I don't know if they have the technology to do that or not. but, you know, there's something quite not right about this.

Could it be a spiritual thing where they are able to take the person's consciousness and do that, take them to another place or, you know, infuse memory, infuse incidents into their subconscious or on their mind, you know, that they can pull up? I don't know. I'm just not totally convinced that all these abductions. are physical. I think there, a lot of it is a, you know, a consciousness type thing or spiritual type thing. Yeah, I'm with you on that. The only thing that kind of throws a wrench in the whole thing is a lot of these people have been abducted. They do have physical effects of being taken. So, you know, who knows? Yeah, it does. It does. And, you know, there's no, there are never any

clear answers to any of this stuff. It's always, you know, you always have this question in your head that what actually happened and you never really get any, you know, hardcore answers to any of it. It's just, it's frustrating. It is frustrating. It's

beyond frustrating. Have you ever had government intervention or like the men of black show up or anything like that with regard to looking into UFOs? I've had, I know, I've known people who had run into with people, you know, warned them off certain cases, you know, abductees and so forth. People have witnessed things.

They, you know, people would come up and talk with them. They had an official appearance or official presence about them. And I've also had that in paranormal cases where a certain area, you know, was experiencing paranormal activity or even, you know, quote-unquote demonic activity. I've had people do that same thing. Really? On a paranormal encounter, give me an example if you would. I had a case not far from Roanoke, Virginia, where this lady was having a great deal of a negative entity. That's what I refer to it as negative entity activity, kind of like people might refer to as demonic activity. She was being attacked, apparitions in her home, you know, poltergeist type activity, moans, growling, you know,

bad smells and so forth. And one person would come to her door and said, you know, said something to the effect that, you know, I wouldn't report this or, you know, I could help you. You don't need to be going through this and what's going on and started asking her questions. And she didn't know this person from anywhere. And she just, you know, told him to leave her alone. You'd offer, you know, doorstep, leave her alone. And he had this official kind of presence about him too. And she didn't, she didn't know him from Adam.

He's just some stranger they came up, knew what was going on in her house, wanted to help her, asked her questions about it. Very similar to what some of these UFO witnesses experience with regard to the men in black. A lot of them don't wear black anymore. They're just, you know, they're official, they have an official stance to them or appearance to them, and they ask questions in an official manner and so forth. But, yeah, I've had those in weird, strange phenomena cases as far as paranormal. incident's go. Yeah, the men in black is bizarre to me because half the stories, it actually sounds like someone who works for the government like a human.

And the other half of the encounters, they sound like some freak show, you know, some hybrid or abomination. It's strange. Can I ask you, what do you think aliens are after working for Mufon and doing all of this investigation and research? What are your thoughts? I'm going to tackle it first logically. Considering the size of the universe and the galaxies there are and so forth,

I think it's mathematically impossible for there not to be of the life out there, depending on what type of life it is. Most of the UFO encounters are, I think, interdimensional. They come in through our reality from another type of reality. And I'm Catholic. I look at it that way. The Catholic Church at this point, they have their own observatory.

I think it's in New Mexico. And they've been doing a lot of UFO research for years now. They've been trying to get a handle on this type of thing. And, you know, according to the Catholic Church, the physical universe, all the universe that we know, all the galaxies, everything that we are aware of, makes up only 1% of his total creation, which means that are 99% of his creation that, you know,

we can't see or access. So, you know, that leaves a lot of room for a lot of things. And I think it's a bit more complex than we would ever imagine it could be. So how many realities out there are dimensions and universes and existences that, you know, we're not even aware of? How can they be interacting with us? That's mind-boggling. It is mind-boggling and terrifying. You know, when I was growing up, it was the little green man, you know, flying across from the universe.

And most researchers and investigators in the UFO field today, I hear a lot of them say that. They don't believe for two seconds it's coming from millions of miles away that it is something here, just kind of an interdimensional type being, which is scary and strange. So you go from UFOs to the paranormal. Tell me about that. What was kind of a case that you remember that really stays with you that you investigated? Well, I became a member in, I think it was 2002. And I investigated a lot of cases, you know, the typical paranormal case.

And basically what we do is somebody would call us with a paranormal problem. And what we do is he would do a lot of research before we went on site. But first we'd call them and do a, you know, a telephone interview, maybe two, maybe in three telephone interviews to get a feel for the person and what might be going on. And then we'd do it on-site, a preliminary on-site investigation where we'd look at the house, the area, you know, assess the person. We'd ask them, you know, do you have you, you know, every abused drugs, alcohol. We went through a litany of questions. And then if we, if we, if the case looked good and promising, we, we, we'd have you. But what we do, we set up a full-scale investigation.

We'd go in with instrumentation, data loggers, cameras, you know, different type of instrumentation. And we'd wire the house and we'd sit around and wait. And something would happen. Our main goal was not necessarily to witness or experience anything, but more so to collect the data associated with what that event was. So we could try to explain it in a certain way. But I think I did that for quite a while. And I think the case that hit me or affected me more than anything else was it turned out to be, and I'm going to determine what I believe it was. It was a demonic case, a case of oppression.

This happened in, I think it started in 2009. A lady called our group and said that, well, it wasn't her. It was her husband. I'm sorry. He called our group and said that his wife was. being attacked daily almost, something unseen. He would, it would beat her, scratch her, throw her around. It would leave, you know, bad scars on her body.

And a lot of these scars were in a series of three linear scratches side by side, which was an earmark of what this thing would do. It was kind of its signature. We thought that was rather interesting, but we were somewhat skeptical. So we went in, me and another lady. and we interviewed each one of them, the husband and the wife. I interviewed the wife. She interviewed the husband, and we got it all on video.

And we interviewed them separately, but we stayed within eyesight of each other. That's basically our method of operation. We'll make sure, you know, for safety purposes, we'll stay within the eyeshadowed of each other while we're doing the interview. And when I interviewed this lady, I was kind of somewhat skeptical. She would tell me what was going on. But she, you know, being a police officer or a detective, I was very adept at interviewing victims of crimes. You know, trying to determine, you know, if they're being deceptive or, you know, body language, you know, to see if they're being honest and forthright and so forth. And her body language reminded me of a rape victim.

She wouldn't make eye contact. Her body position and the way she, you know, guarded herself and wouldn't face me and knees were to the side. She didn't want me, you know, have anything to do with me. didn't want to be near me. She would always look down. She would answer questions. And, you know, I just, you know, I interviewed enough rape victims and sexual assault victims to, you know, see that those body languages, that body language and the,

her reactions to certain questions. And I thought I had something here. I actually looked at some of the scarring that was on her body. And to this day, she still has scar tissue from some of these attacks. So I started looking at the wounds and everything. And I started to think, well, maybe there's a psychological issue here. Maybe she's a cutter, which is a person that cuts themselves to release some type of psychological anxiety or whatever. But they didn't quite match the atypical cutter because a lot of times they cut themselves in areas that can't be seen, readily seen, like the inner thighs up top of the inner thighs and, you know, hips and so forth.

But she was cut everywhere. I mean, her arms, her legs, her neck. She couldn't go out. She was so ashamed to go out because she was always bandaged up all the time. And I didn't, you know, I kind of questioned as to whether she was a cutter. But I was going through this list, you know, of possibilities. And it just got down to the point where I'm thinking, well, you know, I've gotten down to this, got this far down. I think we have something legitimate here.

And to begin with, she didn't ever want to call us. There was a husband that called us for concern of her. And, you know, that's another indicator of somebody's experience of trauma that's embarrassing in a certain way. They will never report it. It's always a friend or family member that reports it for them. So I went through that on this list, and I said, we probably got something here, and we set up time to do surveillance. And I worked this case for approximately two years. And I wasn't familiar with, very familiar with this time.

we referred to as negative entity hauntings. I wasn't very familiar with that. So I learned about a religious demonologist up in Connecticut by the name of Dave Considine. He's very good. He's got a lot of experience a whole lot more than I do. So I contacted him and gave him a rundown of the type of case I had. And he says, it sounds demonic. But, you know, there's certain things you have to do.

You have to get some evidence. You know, if you want to get the church involved, they'll require a great deal of evidence. because the church is not, you know, they don't work these cases on demand. You have to have very strong compelling evidence before they'll even look into it. And I'm just said, okay, well, and I could do that. The group I was with Center for Paranormal Research and Investigation, they were, they're extremely, they're extremely good group. They do everything by the book.

And they suggested that she seeks psychological counseling first, which is, you know, it's a logical step in something like this. And, you know, I don't fault them at off when to do that. But this girl, you know, she had already experienced what she experienced. So she was down as it was. She was very depressed. She just said, no, you know, if you think I'm crazy, I don't want to have anything to do with you guys. And something in my heart said that, you know, I need to stay with this.

So what I did was I took the case on as an independent investigators to try to help her out. If it was a psychological issue, I could try to steer her in the right direction. But if it was a spiritual issue, I could try to steer her in the other direction. And that's where Dave Consonite I came in. And what I did was I would go there for almost a year and a half and try to videotape her home. I would wire the house. I would set video cameras up and I would try to capture the activity as it was occurring because I needed something. And then one time in April of 2011, I was able to catch it on video.

I caught two attacks. and the first attack occurred in the kitchen. She was walking through the kitchen, and then you could hear a distinct static discharge, and she'd jump, and, you know, she had these three scratches on her upper left arm. We went in there and observed the scratches,

and they were rather deep. I mean, she was bleeding profusely, and it was blood all over the floor. She was crying, you know, and we thought that was somewhat strange, but, you know, I was one, she was out of the room prior to being so-called hit. So I wanted to investigate a little bit longer, see if I can catch something else to, to strengthen that concept of that idea that, you know, something might be happening.

So later that morning, about four, four-thirty, she was in bed watching TV, your husband was laying next to her sleep. And we had the room. I had cameras from both opposite ends of the room, so I could capture the entire room. And then all of a sudden you hear this, this, this, this, this, this, this, static discharge, snap. She jumps and, you know, rubs her left forearm. And I run in there. And, you know, she had fresh scratches on her left forearm. I took her into the other room, turned the overhead light on, looked at them.

And they were fresh in that they blood started to seep through the skin. And I looked at her fingernails and her fingernails were acrylic. They couldn't scratch me. I tried to have her scratch my knee. She couldn't even do it. And, you know, when we reviewed the tape, And we could hear a breathy, like growl or noise just before the attack in this particular incident. And I could see what looked like an orb on another angle of the camera.

Enter her. You hear the snap. She jumps and it leaves her. So I thought, you know, I had something. And I contacted Dave Considine. He said, this is my next suggestion. He says, now that you got something on tape, this is what I'd like for you to do. he had an exorcist

that works with him. He said, I want you to be there on a certain day at a certain time because the exorcist is going to do a mass in her name. And, you know, he says, don't tell her while you're there. Don't tell her what's happening.

Don't tell her what, you know, what's going on. And I just want you to be there on this date at this particular time. He's going to have the mass started at that particular time. And he's like halfway across the country in the Chicago area. So I go to the first.

a visitor and I said, you know, I just want to come, you know, talk to you see if everything's okay. You know, if you wouldn't, you know, if you wouldn't like to go to church with us or whatever, that would be fine. And, uh, and all of a sudden, it's a snap at a certain time. Um, she started getting a extremely bad headache, migraine type of headache. She got very ill, nauseous. She had to lay down. She couldn't get up.

Um, she was just in bad shape. And it turned out that at the moment that she got sick, I called and at that point in central time, we were at the East Coast, he had started the mass and mentioned her name. So we decided that that point in time that this was probably legitimate demonic oppression and that if we didn't work quickly, that it could turn into demonic possession. And that would not be good. So, you know, he, you know, we worked with him and worked with the church.

and they said that it'd be okay if I did a deliverance for her. And I was supposed to prepare for three days, go to Mass confession and prepare myself and before I did this deliverance. And I was supposed to say specific prayer that only certain people with permission can say, and I'm not going to mention it because a lot of times this particular prayer is abused.

But I said to say a particular prayer for her. I went to her house. I became Catholic really quick. I became a renewed Catholic because when I started that prayer you felt a presence in the house you felt the presence around you after the prayer was over

I never felt so much peace and I to better for a better description love in all my life it was like it's over it's done and she felt it too and that was in 2011 and she has been free from attacks or anything since then

you know before the house was a heavy feeling to it a sinister feeling around her, you know, a depressing feeling. But then all of a sudden it just lifted and you just felt this light, lightness and love and peace. You know, maybe it's subjective for my part, maybe so. But I didn't expect that. Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that account. The one thing that really caught my attention there is you were talking about the static electricity, that sound you heard.

And I've heard eyewitnesses who run into these creatures. There has been reports of that. They'll kind of describe, I'll give you an example in episode 842. I had Will on. And basically what happened is he's standing there. A rock comes his general direction. He sees it land. And he kind of looks up, sees this creature.

And he tells his buddy, hey, it ends up throwing another rock. But he tells his buddy, hey, look at this. The creature turns and goes down this hill. As they go over there, Will said there was kind of a static in the air, kind of an energy, electricity in the air, and they couldn't find the creature. Even, you know, in accounts with Sasquatch, the smell, for example, people will walk into a wall of smell. Well, you don't walk into a wall of smell. That's not the way smell works. You kind of smell it.

And as you get closer, you really smell it. But what's bizarre in these cases, people will talk about walking into a wall of smell. And if you walk one way to the left or to the right, you don't smell it anymore. It's strange. What do you make of that electricity, that noise that you heard with this account? I don't know if it's electromagnetic energy. That's what a lot of researchers theorize. It's a form of electromagnetic energy that permeates the area.

And talking about smells, work in these particular cases, these smells are very localized and they move throughout the area in the room or in the area. And you could actually follow them where these smells move. So I don't know what it is, what this heaviness is. And I've had people involved with cryptic researchers said that they've had the same type of feeling when they encounter these beings. these creatures. So, you know, is it some type of electromagnetic energy that they, that, you know, is there a residual type of energy from these things or I don't know. I really don't know. That's another question that's evaded me, you know, for a long time. I can't explain it. Yeah, it's strange. I will say the feeling is very similar. I've been in a haunted home and

that heaviness, that presence. It's very similar to when these creatures are around. What got you into Dogman, Rick? I mean, why I look for Dog Man? Well, my wife got me into that because she's been a, you know, she's loved werewolves, the subject of werewolves all her life since she was a small child. Supposedly, she saw the entity of a werewolf one time.

And, you know, she doesn't, you know, doesn't know if it was a real incident or it was just a dream, whatever, but ever since then, she's, she's loved the concept of werewolves and cryptics in general. And, you know, we were talking about it one day, you know, since we've been doing this paranormal investigation, parable investigations

for so many years. And I said, you know, there's a lot of similarities in cryptic accounts with regard to paranormal. She says, yeah, I know, let's start a group. So she contacted the North American Dogman project. It's a national group. We became the

Virginia chapter and we started looking into cryptids and I still do the recent do the paranormal end of it but I'm also doing the cryptid end of it and we've been doing this for about five years now we just don't look into dog men but we look into all cryptids you know whether it be Bigfoot or you know the winged cryptids whatever and we've got our little you know we've got a little research area out in Lee County Virginia which is in the extreme southwest part of the state it's near an area that I've termed the tri-zone, the trizonal area, because that particular area of Virginia, Kentucky, and Tennessee is for some reason extremely hot. There's a lot that goes on there and not

just cryptic activity, but UFO activity, light phenomena activity, strange things. So, you know, I chose that particular area because of a dog name report that we heard about in that particular area and we decided to go down there and a friend of mine, one of our investigators and just two of us went down there set up camp, hiked in. Set up camp. We looked for the proper water,

you know, resources, cover, that type of thing. And we went up on a hilltop and we just stayed there and we were not disappointed. This particular research area that we had, they were telling we go out there. We're not disappointed as far as as activity goes.

But that first night was rather you know, Harry. We set up a 50-50 watch that night. I would, you know, he wanted me to go to sleep first.

We wouldn't do like three-hour shifts. One of us would stay awake because supposedly the dog ban, you know, phenomena, they're supposedly, you know, more aggressive,

more dangerous than the Bigfoot, you know, phenomena. And they're more, you know, so we decided to have that 50-50 wake, one way.

one sleep, a system going. Well, he woke me up a half an hour later, and he said there's something running around the camp. And I got up, went out, and he said it would run around us. And he said he had a thermal device, and he said he would catch it on thermal. But it was so quick that he couldn't pinpoint it. And he said he heard something running across. We were camped on an old logging road. And something ran across the road.

about two steps in the logging row was about maybe 20 feet, 20 feet wide. And took two steps across the road, he said, and it's been running around the camp all, you know, the whole night. I stayed up and we didn't really hear anything. I didn't rather hear anything. And he said, well, you know, it's kind of calm down. You can go back to sleep. I just want to stay awake because I can't sleep right now. And I said, okay, I went back to sleep.

He woke me up again another about half an hour, 40 minutes later, reporting the same thing. You know, so I stayed awake the rest of the night, didn't have. have a lot of activity. But, you know, let me go back a bit. Before that particular night, we were, you know, walking the area. We went back to our parking area. It's about maybe a mile or two down the road or as the crow flies to get to a parking area before we went into this particular wooded park area.

But we went back there and to get some supplies and bring them back. And we heard a growl down an embankment into like a little knoll or pre-pe. bottom. And we looked down there. He searched it with the thermal device. Didn't see anything, but it was the distinct growl. I was more afraid that it might be a bear or something. But we didn't notice anything. And then we went to our vehicle, got her stuff, came back. And then on the way back, we heard about maybe five to 800 meters north, northwest of us, we heard a tree fall, a single tree crashing and falling. We thought that was unusual. Set up camp. And later that night. That's when he experienced that activity. And we were, you know, we were just so worn out.

We didn't stay a second night. But the following morning, we went out there into this wooded area where the activity was occurring. And we found small tree structures. In this form of an these structures, you know, these structures were using branches and trees that weren't, you know, from the area. They didn't have any rooting system or anything like that. We took several photographs of them. I took a video of the structure itself, showing that there were no root systems to them, that they were actually placed there in an ex-formation. There were two or three ex-formations there. I took photographs of them and video of them. And that was kind of like a hauler area. We now call it. We now deem it, you know, booger holler because, you know, so much

activities down in there. And we've been back out there two or three more times. When a couple of our team members saw a large dark humanoid peeking around a tree with a conical head and dark back and we'd go down there and there were branches broken off, branches broken

off and lying on the ground. We did a size comparison. It was about seven and a half to eight feet tall. We had weird bird sounds like a you know, some type of weird bird call right on the other side of a mound

from our campsite, which maybe 30 feet. This thing was so loud, you know, it's startled us. We'd go over there and there's nothing there. It's just weird, weird stuff that occurs in that particular spot in that particular area in general. But, you know, we're trying to go back out there and get some more information and try to document some of this stuff. Yeah, even when you go out and you look for Sasquatch, a lot of times it feels like you're chasing a ghost. You know, you'll be growled at over here and you go and look and there's nothing there. Or you'll have a rock, you know, thrown at you from this direction.

You look in that direction and there's nothing there. It just feels like you're chasing a ghost most of time as opposed to a non-human primate or a werewolf. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's strange. You know, when they call them ninjas of the woods, they're not kidding. Very elusive. They're very adept to hiding their presence, covering their presence. covering their presence, you know, their movements.

That particular bird sound we heard on the other side of this mound adjacent to our campsite. I did a search, and it was a sound of a peacock. You know how peacock screams? Well, that happened right on the other side of this mound, and we went over there. There were no peacocks there. Nothing. I just, you know, I was at a loss. I really couldn't explain that one.

I mean, it's just the weird things that happen there. We're going back out there soon and, you know, just see if we can't, you know, record some of this stuff, set out some cameras and so forth. But what I'd like to do is I'd like to set out thermals because I think that these creatures can see IR light and these game cameras don't necessarily work. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to try to set out some IR,

well, not IRR, but FLIR devices that record in the same manner. see if I can just get somebody to develop that for me. Hopefully we can get something. Yeah, I really hope you're successful, Rick. That's for sure. And, you know, maybe there is something to the IR light. I don't know. It's bizarre to me.

You would think if you put out food, you know, at some point it's not going to care about the IR light, but with these things, they seem to. And it's just weird that even we can't even get them on game cams. You know, the game cams that we do get them on, you get a shoulder or half a head or the whole thing is just bizarre to me. Yeah. And, you know, I don't think that, I think there are different types, different species of so-called Sasquatch. Some, you know, they have more abilities than others. Some, you know, it's just, there's something else

to these things. I think it's there's some of them, at least some of them. You know, I believe they're physical beings and for the most part, but some of them have a certain ability that I can't quite explain. There's certain attributes to their, you know,

able to perceive things, able to do certain things like mind speak and so forth. I know a lot of researchers, you know, they try to shy away from that woo-woo, you know, aspect of it. But you can't shy away from hundreds of people that have reported these these things and you know they're disappearing before

their eyes and that type of thing um i mean this stuff happens it may not be in the same you know realm as scripted but there's something going on and there's something strange about some of these creature sightings that just has me perplexed yeah it's something there's definitely something going on, you know, with looking into Dogman, in your wife's experience, what do you think dogman is? I think that some of them are physical. I think they are, they have, you know, a lot of these footprints show dermal ridges, which is primate in origin.

I think they've got primate in them. I think they've got something else. I'm not sure what it is. I think they're more human than we've. would want to believe. I think they have a certain intellect about them. Getting back, you know, and reverted back to my Roman Catholicism, in the Catholic Church, there are three natures.

First, there's a supernature, which is referred to as the supernatural, which is the God force, the ability to create something from nothing. Then below that, it's like a hierarchy. Then below that, there's what they call the preternatural or pre-nature, which is kind of the angelic. You know, supposedly, well, according to scripture, God created the angels before he created the physical universe. The angels are supposed to be pure spirit beings.

But supposedly, through, you know, interacting with humans, they were able to create another species, the Nephilim. And that would denote that, you know, they have, that these things might have, and there's certain evidence that they might have certain types of preternatural abilities or angelic abilities. mind speaks one of them, being able to disappear, be able to manipulate the physical universe. You know, God force can create the physical universe, create something from nothing, but the preternatural, you have the knowledge to manipulate the physical universe because at the angelic creation, all this information about the physical universe and everything they needed to know was infused in them. It's not like an angel grew up learning certain things. They were created instantaneously with infused knowledge.

and depending on the level of the angel or these beings, that some are more knowledgeable than others, then that would increase their ability, preternatural abilities. And it seems like these, you know, it's just speculation on my part. I can't say with any degree of uncertainty, but it seems like a lot of these beings have a preternatural ability. It's, you know, that's nothing that drew me to it. When I was working with the demonology aspect of things in the paranormal,

I saw this preternatural ability. and started seeing it in cryptic reports. People experiencing these things. Now, the angelic, they have the capability. If we get back into Scripture, and I know it might bore some people. But when you get into Scripture at the fall of man, basically what we did is we ceded authority to these beings

over our bodies, our imagination, our memory, and anything physical. And these things have access to your imagination, your memory, they can pull up images from your memory and show them to you. They can affect your imagination. They can affect your emotions, which is a physical aspect. They can affect all these things. And it seems like, particularly with the dog man, you know, phenomena, they're able to manipulate emotions in people and cause a certain degree of fear that is not actually natural. And the Bigfoot, there's a certain extent. Yeah. I can see where some people might see a Bigfoot and, you know,

it might extend beyond their frame of reference and it might bother them. But when they see a dog man or have these other encounters with certain types of big feet or to Sasquatch, they have a psychological or spiritual component to their, you know, agony or pain. And I thought that was, you know, I think that's rather interesting and that should be explored further. So, you know, that's why, you know, I don't necessarily focus on the sighting so much with regard to dogs. as I do focusing on the witness themselves. I need to know their, you know, their life, the timeline, how they grew up, their belief structure, the mental state at the time, what they're going through, what's happening to them. You know, that type of thing, that type of data to me is invaluable when researching cryptid activity or dogman activity.

Because I think the answer might be in these people. I think some of these people are actually chosen to witness these things. why I don't know now again I can't give you any concrete evidence that that's the case but that's just a suspicion on my part this is the theory that I'm working on yeah that is fascinating and I hope you're wrong I hope you're 100% wrong but you know who knows there is bizarre things that go on with Sasquatch and dogman and you know I know you've agreed to come on for a part two I want to get into this conversation was more or less like kind of an introduction. I want to get into some of the other things you and I were talking about related to Sasquatch and Dogman and aliens and it's

just correlations that we're finding, you know, studying these different genres. And I know you have way more experience studying this than I do. And I can't wait to have you back for a part two. I know we're going to be chatting tomorrow. And thank you so much. for coming on and talking about your life for the last 30 years. I can't wait to do it again, Rick. No problem. Thank you for having me, and I appreciate, you know, carrying me out. Thank you so much.

Thanks again, Rick. And that's it for tonight, everyone. Remember, if you've had an encounter, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatchpronicals.com. And if you get a chance, check out Sasquatchpronicals.com, you can become a member and get additional shows. Until next time, everyone.