Sasquatch Chronicles - SC EP:955 Hunters Encountering Cryptids

Episode Date: May 20, 2023

Trevor writes "Wes, I hope all is well. I've been carrying around this experience 20 years now hoping that what I saw in the woods while turkey hunting in southern Indiana. While sitting beside a huge poplar tree on top of a ridge in the Hoosier national forest area of Martin county, that was blocking my view of anything coming on my right side. I was watching a few turkeys that were coming up the south ridge in front of me, they were startled by something and started acting strangely. That's when coming from my right side I heard some small twigs and leaves rustling around and it was something of significant size by the sound of it. I slowly peaked around to see what it was and the thing I convinced myself of that I saw being a good sized bear somehow standing in a region of the country bears aren't supposed to be. Suddenly I realize the shoulders were way too wide to be a bear it almost had the features of a dog, long snout pointy ears, in all these years I've yet to find what I seen that day researching bears. Only a month ago did I hear the same almost exact story from your podcast American werewolf. I don't know why those cold black eyes didn't choose me as it's target but now I know what I saw was Dogman or something like him and am ready to release the burden of carrying this experience for good there's more on how I managed to get away so please contact me and looking forward to sharing my experience." We will also be speaking to Frank. Frank lived in Estacada, Oregon. In 1989 he was 17 years old and hunting with four friends. Frank said "My friend talked about seeing two of these creatures. I did not believe him. I did not believe in Bigfoot. Frank describes seeing this creature after hearing a limb break. Frank said "We all saw it. This thing paced us out."

It looked like somebody was bent over and had their head in the window of the deer blind and it either heard me or smelt me and he pulled his head out of the tent and stood straight up and that shocked me. They don't make people that big. The way it moved, almost as if it was gliding across the beach. I've never seen anything moves like that in my life. They were screaming at each other in gibberish. It sounded like a language and they were chuntering away back and forwards, back and forwards, back and forwards.

I know what a bear looks like and there is no way on this planet that what I saw were bears. What happened what are you reporting? Get somebody out here. What's going on now, sir? That's son of a bitch is about six. bitch is about six foot nine, I don't know. Do you see a bouncer? Yes, I'm looking right in.

Uh-uh. This is Greg Andrews from Orlando, Florida, and you're listening to Sasquatch Chronicles. I want to give a quick shout out to my good friend Tracy. Him and I were chatting one day on FaceTime, and behind him, he had all these, like, beautiful guitars. And I'm not talking about, like, guitars you would see at a guitar shop. I'm talking about stuff you would see like at a rocker's house or in a museum, that sort of thing. And as we were chatting, you know, I was telling him, I love playing the guitar. I love everything about it.

The chords make sense. Everything makes sense when I play it. And I like to learn a song, play it the way it was originally played, and then I like to play with it, tweak it, change it, and mess with it. And the biggest problem I was running into is, you know, I got these big monkey hands. and the necks on the guitars aren't real wide, you know, for a guy with big hands. And Tracy was saying, you know, all these guitars I built. And I was like, what? He's like, yeah, I built all these.

I'll build you one. And we argued about it for a while. You know, I was like, no, no, no, it's cool, man. After arguing with him for about an hour and a half, I just kind of accepted it. And the guitar he sent me is so fun to play. It's so fun to, it just, Everything about it is perfect. It's perfectly built.

And it even has Sasquatch Chronicles logo on the back. I'll post pictures up on Twitter and underneath this episode if anyone's interested in seeing it. I know I already called you, Tracy, but I just wanted to say publicly, man, it meant more to me than you'll realize. And I'll definitely cherish it. Thank you again. Got a great show plan for you. We're going to be chatting with Frank. And Frank comes to us.

He grew up in Estakeda, Oregon, and back in 1989, he had an encounter while out with a bunch of his friends that were hunting. I'll let him go into what they saw that day. We're also going to be chatting with Trevor, and Trevor comes to us from southern Indiana. And back in 2004, he was hunting as well, but he ran into something very different than a Sasquatch. I'll let Trevor go into it. If you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. And if you get a chance to check out Sasquatch Chronicles.com, you can become a member and get additional shows.

Let's jump into it tonight. I want to welcome Trevor to the show. Trevor, thanks for coming on. Thank you, sir. Yeah, and I know that this encounter happened to you, Trevor, back in 2004. in southern Indiana. If you would, just kind of start from the very beginning. What were you doing?

And what did you end up seeing that day? Well, my family owns some property in the Housin National Forest around that area in southern Indiana. And we hunt on this property. And we've grown up on this property. Our whole eyes me and my brother have, you know, our whole family. So I was just out there one, it was November, the end of November around Thanksgiving time. And I was just out messing around, you know, deer hunting.

It is our property squirrel hunting, turkey hunting whatever, you know, just trying to go out and just enjoy the woods for the day. And there's a mushroom tree we have. It's a big ash tree, and it's about a mile and a half off the road. I mean, it's out in the middle of nowhere, in the middle of the forest, you know. And there's a ridge behind it. The ridge was a west facing the ridge, and I was facing the west when I was on top of it. But I was sitting by a big oak tree. And I was just hunting, you know, just sitting there with my gun.

I had double barrel 20-gauge shotgun. And I was watching some turkeys that I'd seen. So I sit down by that oak tree. And, you know, I was sitting there watching them, watching them. And I heard something rustling. I couldn't see what was to my right because this oak tree was huge. And I was on top of the ridge. I mean, it's a big old oak tree.

And I heard the leaves rustling around a little bit over there. And if you've been in the woods and hunting, you know what squirrels sound like. You know what chipmunks sound like. And you know what deer sound like? This was big, you know. In Indiana, we don't get much bigger than deer, white-tailed deer. So I was, it was bigger than that. It was something of a very significant size.

So, you know, I kind of, you know, got my interest. So I peaked around the oak tree. And when I did, I saw what appeared to be a bear to me. But I saw, I got back behind the oak tree and I was sitting there thinking to myself, man, this is Indiana. it. We, you know, we don't have bears. Why? What is this? So, okay, I was like, I got to look at this again. So I peeked back around the tree again. And it was a little closer. I mean, it was literally no more than 10 yards from me. And I thought it was looking at me, but it was looking kind of my direction. But I realized now it was probably looking at them turkeys, too, because they were acting funny. And that's kind of another thing that caught my attention. You know what I mean? Something's messing them up. And, um, But anyways, I realized the shoulders on this thing were, I don't know, man, I honestly don't know how to explain them. It was almost, they were human life almost, but not.

They were too wide to be a bear. You know what I mean? Like, it's just way too wide to be a bear. So that was the first thing I noticed. And then the head, the ears were pointy. And I didn't know anything about bears. I was a junior in high school there, and we don't have bears around here. I thought that was kind of odd.

And I just know the eyes were black. And that's all I mean, and I don't know. I get cold chills just thinking about it now. Like I don't know what I was looking at, really. But the shoulders, it scared me, honestly. It scared me. So I loaded my double barrel. I put it.

I had a deer slug and a bird shot, turkey shot for my double barrel 20 gauges side by side. I put the deer shot and. slugging in, and I didn't have intentions to hurt this thing at all. I just was trying to protect myself at this point. You know, I didn't know what I was looking at, and whatever I was looking at was not what I, it wasn't supposed to be real. But anyway, so I started backing out of these woods. I started backing down this ridge line.

And the whole time I got a good eye on it, and it's walking down towards the hill, towards the turkeys, so it's going west towards the turkeys down the hill. So I'm backing up, backing up, trying not to lose sight of it. I'm not running. I'm just staying. The weird thing is I was calm. And usually in that kind of situation, I don't think I would be like as calm as I was. It was almost like, oh, well, I'm looking at this thing, but I know I got to protect myself.

So let's back out of here. It was just an odd feeling. And to this day, I still can't describe that feeling I had. But anyways, it got down towards the turkeys. I lost sight of it for a second. what I did see, and it was behind some limbs and some brush that was down there, but I did see what I thought was it stand up, and the legs looked almost as if a dog would stand up, and how their legs look when they, you know, if it's standing up and it's got some paws on your shoulders,

how his knees, I guess, look, they were inverted. They weren't like ours, but, and I could, I thought I saw, and the next, I mean, I backed out of there. It took me almost an hour and a half to back out of these woods because I was taking my time, putting my head on a swivel, just looking everywhere up, down all around. I didn't know where it would come from. When I lost sight of it, I really lost it. And I started, like, kind of freaking out. I almost had a panic attack at one point. I remember having to sit down by sit down with that gun point, like not really pointed but ready for anything to come at one point and did not know what was going to happen.

but in the whole time it's going there's no way that's a bear I don't think it couldn't have been a bear bears don't stand up like that and their legs don't look like that when they stand up so I back all the way down to where a four-wheeler trail is and it's about 150 yards

uphill to my cousin's house and that's where I was going from so I literally my last part before I just I just dropped my gun and took off running I ran as fast as I could up that hill and when I had my back turned to where I was to where that thing was at. I mean, the hair on the back of my neck.

It was almost like it was breathing down my neck. You know, I don't know. Maybe it was just paranoia at that point. But when I got to the house, I got up there and got the door. And I told my dad, I said, I think I saw a bear out there in the woods, man. But I don't think it was a bear. There's no way this thing was a bear, but it looks, I don't know how to explain it. And then he kind of just laughed it off, you know.

and now it's I mean now we need to go in the future here because I've held this for a long time and not really said much to nobody because I mean he's going to believe this you know it's kind of a kind of an odd thing to see and especially around here's a small area nobody's got to believe that crap man is it's just we're in the Bible Belt here you know so I didn't say much but then my brother come to me just about a year ago and this is when I opened it to him about it, you know, and he he believed me because he knows I'm not going to lie about this, you know, I don't know, but he showed me these pictures of these feet print. I mean, there was three toes that looked like to me. I mean, they're huge. And that thing would have been about that size, and it was only a mile south of where I was at. And then I heard your podcast just about a month ago, the American Werewolf, and the gentleman that explained his story on there.

I mean, that was the same thing that I seen. It was the same exact thing I seen. So I know what that was now. And it's just an odd thing. I don't know. I've never went back to those parts of the woods, but I've been close to the borders of where this hauler, it's a big hauler in there.

And it's called rattlesnake hauler. And not too many people go in there because it's got rattlesnake holler for a reason. It's called that because there's a lot of them in there. And, you know, you just got to know where to, go. And there's also a lot of Indian burial grounds around this area and they're not Native American stuff. I mean, you know, there's a lot of Native American things in Indiana anyways.

Indiana means the land of the Indians. You know what I mean? That's so, so, and I've always heard about how dog man just so they don't really talk about him, but they know he exists. He's in their mythologies. He goes all the way back to the long time. Yeah, you're right, Trevor. The Native Americans do have dog man in their culture, and it does go back a long ways.

And, you know, I don't know what this thing is that people are running into. Dog man, werewolf, whatever you want to call it, people are definitely running into it. I wanted to ask you before I go into more, ask you for more details. When you were there, do you think the creature ever noticed that you were actually up there watching it? I feel like it was looking at me, but I really believe that them turkeys saved my life that day because it took his attention off me. That's why I feel like I was able to back out of there and not really be, you know, messed with. I don't, I don't hear too many dog man encounters that aren't, you know, I mean, they're a little vicious, usually.

Yeah, they seem to kind of have a mean streak in them, kind of a revenge streak. they in a lot of encounters if you listen to what people are saying it's almost like these dogmen get off on people's scaring people people's fear um when when you first saw him how far away from you was he when i first saw him he was he was he was moving a little bit he was moving slow you know but it was it was like i said a peak but first but i'd say it was 20 yards from me because the last time when i came out the second time he was He was no more than 10 yards from me. Yeah, that's probably way closer and I'd want to be. But when you first see him, is he down on all fours? And then he stands up on two legs like a man when he starts getting closer to the turkeys? Yes, when I lost track finally, like I said, what it looked like to me was he stood up and he was close to those turkeys.

You know, they were, I mean, they couldn't have been no more than 40, 50 yards from me, you know. And he stood up, I believe. And like I said, it just looked like a dog was standing up with his legs, but it was big. I mean, it was big, you know. It was scary, big almost. Like a good-sized wrestler would look like, you know what I mean, like a professional wrestler? You know, like, like, Hulgin's size almost, like big, like muscular. You know what I mean?

You can almost see the muscles in its calves. It was weird looking, man. It had muscle. You could see the definition in its leg, you know, in the legs of it. And you can see the definition in its shoulders. It was crazy. Like I was like, that thing is powerful, you know? But when it stood up, I'd say it was probably every bit of seven and a half feet tall probably.

I'm guessing here, because like I said, I don't know for sure because I don't know that that was really where his head was at or not. You know what I mean? But it was big. It was big on all fours. And it was just a big creature. And I don't know. I don't know, man. I'm like literally having cold chills right now talking about it.

Yeah, I've never seen a dog, ma'am, but I can imagine. And a lot of people report them around seven, seven and a half feet tall, you know, and again, what they are, I don't know. You know, when you think of a canine, and a lot of eyewitnesses describe the legs like how you did, like a dog standing up. But dogs aren't built to do that. And I'm not saying that because I'm not saying like, oh, I don't believe. you, I'm saying, I believe you. It's just weird to me that a lot of eyewitnesses report those sort of legs. When you were looking at the face or the head of this saying, what stood out to you the most? His eyes, man, its eyes, like its eye area, you know what I mean? It didn't,

it had a longer snout. I know that its snout was long and like longer than a bear would be. You know what I mean? I know bears got a little snout, but this thing was long. It had a it had a dog-like head. It's the way I can describe it. The point of years is, you know, what got my attention to its head. Because, I mean, it had like wolf ears, you know what I mean? Almost. It's the only way I can describe it.

I don't know how it's to say besides that. And I'm, you know, I pictured it as if it would run. Like, it would almost look like it was floating because of the way the legs are. Like, I guess the legs would make the upper body almost look like it was floating if it was running real fast because of how they're backwards almost. You know what I mean? I don't know. I'm still trying to figure out how it would look if it was running,

but I didn't get to see that, you know? Yeah, I understand that. You know, most eyewitnesses that see this dog man, they'll report their legs one of two ways. The majority of people will say when it stood up, it had the legs of like a dog. You know, think of your dog and think of it if it stood up. There is a, you know, some of it.

eyewitnesses will say the legs reminded them more of like a man like a man's legs and when it stood up but either way i mean it would have scared me i i think i would have handled it way worse than you did i'd been like i'm i'm getting the hell out of here you know way before you did um and there it's so odd to see it's such a strange creature to see especially when they stand up you know If I see a snake in the woods, I'm running. You know what I mean? So, like, usually I would have been like, I'm out of here, but I didn't. There was some reason, and I still can't figure that out to this day, for some reason, I was scared, yes, but I wasn't, like, out of my mind scared.

You know what I mean? I had total control of everything, all of my surroundings and everything. Like, I all of a sudden was focused, you know what I mean, but scared. It was kind of weird. It was a weird feeling. Yeah, I think a lot of it is confusion. You know, you're sitting there confused about what you're looking at. And you're right in the area you live.

I don't think that you guys have bears. I don't think there's bears there in southern Indiana, maybe farther south than Kentucky. But I think it's confusion. And then once you realize, okay, that's not a bear. I don't know what, you know, why is this dog standing up like a man? Then the fear kicks in. One other detail wanted to ask from what you saw. Do you recall if it had a tail?

No, I don't really, man. I really don't. I just, no, not really. Like I said, when I saw it finally where I thought it was standing up, I didn't see no tail or nothing, because like I said, all I could see was just two legs, man. And then I was, man, I was blown away by that. So, no, I didn't notice a tail.

I mean, I'm sure it did have a tail. I mean, I wouldn't doubt if it did, you know. How else would it be able to balance standing up? You know what I mean? Like without having a tail with those kind of legs. Yeah, I would say about 50% of the time eyewitnesses don't report a tail. The other part of the time, they do report a tail. And I can understand.

I mean, you're in a position. You probably could have cared less at that moment, whether it had a tail or not. You're probably just looking to get the hell out of there. And, you know, these tracks you sent me, I'll post it up on underneath this episode. along with this other picture that your brother took. And I know where he captured this was all in the same area where you had your sighting back in 2004. Let me ask you, Trevor, what do you think this dog man is?

What's your opinion? I'm really not 100% sure. You know, I've thought of many different things. But the one I'm, like I said, we have a really rich history of Native. American, you know, Native American history in Indiana down here. And they live, they get, this was their sacred grounds, you know, around here where we live at. And, and I know that that I've heard stories where they've used, they use dog man as some kind of protection for their, their burial mounds and stuff like that. And I mean, I'm going to, because of where the I'm from and the, the mythology of where I'm from and here in southern Indiana where I'm at,

Yeah, I think it's got something to do with the natives. I really do. You know, whether they, one of their bad ones was turned into a werewolf in the afterlife to protect their stuff or whatever it is. I feel like something. It's got something to do with that. I'd like to believe it was here long before we got here, you know. It was some kind of beast. You know what I mean?

Like it's something that you get told in stories when you're a kid and you don't think about again until. you actually see it. And then you're saying, wow, maybe there is some truth to these stories that have been told. You know what I mean? I don't know. I think it's an actual being I do. I think it bleeds just like we do. Yeah, and I would understand why you would say that.

You know, when people run into dogmen, they're not running into a ghost. They're running into something very physical. And, you know, the Native Americans and their burial grounds and this creature, I know that is in some tribes' culture. which is weird because the Egyptians have the same culture with the Anubis, the God. He was the God of the underworld. And it does go back a long ways for sure. One last question I want to ask you.

Prior to it focusing on the turkeys, did you feel like you were the target at first? Yeah, I did at first. I really did, man. That's why I say those turkeys, just those turkeys are the same. me, I think, because I was downwind from him. And I think he got their scent all of a sudden, and it was off me. Because when I did come back around, I know he was looking at me. Them eyes were looking at me, man.

And it was black. They were black. And it was almost like there was nothing there, you know? And it was just hard to explain. But yeah, I do feel like I was at first because I was something different. But I was, like I said, I was downwind. and those turkeys weren't and that got his attention, I believe, you know. Yeah, and I know this was a brief siding, but a unique siding.

Dogman and, you know, people running into this dogman, werewolf entity, whatever people want to call it, it does happen pretty consistent, but not as much as like Sasquatch. And I always love when people come on and share what they've seen. and I would imagine this would be something you'll remember for the rest of your life. About every day, every day since I've seen that thing. I've thought about it for this many years. And, yeah, so I don't know.

It's hard to just, it's hard to open up about it really, you know. Even though it didn't come after me, I still was scared. I mean, there's no other emotion or feeling I can describe besides I was scared. You know, I've never been scared like that in my life, really. but at the same time I was really calm. It was really weird. It was really weird. Yeah, I think in those moments we get hyper-focused,

especially when we're terrified. And, you know, I believe you, it's one of those things to where I've had many encounters with these creatures, whatever they are, in your general area, in your description of the legs and everything else. And I know it was kind of a brief siding, and you've been holding on to it.

But thank you so much for taking the time Come on, brother. I enjoy chatting with you, Trevor. Oh, wow. Man, you don't understand how much it means to me for somebody to believe me in here and hear it. And I appreciate you, man, for real. But thank you. And next up on the show, I want to welcome Frank. Frank, thanks so much for coming on.

Hey, great to be here. Yeah, it's great to have you. And I know back in 1989, you had seen the creature. You were out with a bunch of friends of yours. but this one friend of yours, he had claimed to have seen the creature before. What did he tell you he had seen? Well, he lived about 8 or 9 miles out of Estacada, and he told me, like, one night that he had went out to get firewood.

It was like 11 o'clock at night, and he said, and he stepped out of his backyard, and he's only like 20 feet to the tree line. And he said he opened the door, and he smelled just this rank, what he described as rankest body odor you've ever smelled, and with like a little bit of wet dog mixed in. And he heard this like howl scream off in the distance. And he didn't try imitating the hour of the scream or anything. And, you know, like I said, I kind of took it with a grain of salt because he was my friend and all.

But he had a tendency to embellish stories. And he said one day when the bus had dropped him off because the bus dropped him off about 50 yards from his house and it would turn around and he'd have to walk up to his house. Well, about a quarter mile past his house up the road where there was a logging road. road that intersected with the road. And he said as he was walking up to his house, he saw a large squatch and two smaller ones stride across the road. And, you know, like I said, I kind of took it with a grain of salt because growing up, we'd all seen in search of and, you know, the Patterson film. And I'm thinking, okay, so they've got a Sasquatch in California. So, of course, he has to see three of them. So, yeah, I just, yeah, whatever. It's like, it's one of those things that's like,

yeah, I wasn't calling him a liar, but I need to see it to believe it. So, and he did have, he had a horse field kind of catty cornered to his place. And there was an old man there that had a cabin and it was called Bigfoot Acres. And he took me there one time and introduced me the old man. He had some plaster casts. But I'm like, okay, these are, how long ago did this happen? How legitimate is this? Because at 17 years old, you're kind of thinking, well, there's a lot of hoaxes out there.

So, yeah, it's just, it's one of the things you really. got to see it to believe it, you know? And I kind of get that because even when I tell people about my own experience, I kind of get the same reaction that I gave to him. And it's like, well, I understand. Yeah, you know, I always tell people you can believe in Bigfoot all you want. But when you see it, it's completely different. I mean, even though you had believed in this thing, when you see it, you're like, oh, my God, I can't believe this thing is real. Well, yeah, I mean, this is, this is, this is, bigfoot is something you saw on TV. This is something that happened in other states. is something that happened, you know, years ago that we don't, at the time anyways,

nobody even really knew was real or if they still existed or how they reproduced. I mean, it was, it was a mythical creature. And so when he's telling me, oh, yeah, I saw three of them and I'm like, uh-huh, okay. But, you know, seeing as believing. So I was about, I was 17, like I said, it was March 89. And I went camping up by his place. And up on that log and road where those, where he said that those three had crossed, I went back in there about a quarter mile.

and I set up a camp and stayed back there for a couple weeks. And, you know, I was never afraid to be back there. And honestly, you know, I'd stay a couple weeks in my tent. And I'd walk down to his house and hang out with him and stay a night with him. Because if you've ever lived out in the woods, it's kind of boring. And, you know, the biggest concern is just not freezing to death, especially in the Northwest. So, you know. But one night or one afternoon, it was on weekend.

And him and his brothers and I were sitting around the house. And we were like, well, hey, let's go get a venison because there wasn't any in the freezer. So we all grabbed a gun. and we headed out to where, you know, past where I was camped at. And I shouldn't mention, by the way, at one point we were just cruising around the woods, and I don't know if it was a couple days or maybe a week earlier, I did see a legitimate tree break. And I remember looking at this tree.

And it was a fir tree is probably 15, 17 feet tall. And at the seven foot mark, seven and a half somewhere in there, something had reached up and snapped it. And it was right at the edge of like an old growth where all like all the brush and stuff, starts growing because it gets sunlight. And so these were fresh trees. And the trees around it were undisturbed. And I remember looking at that.

And I mean, he was with me. And I'm like, you know, that's kind of, eh, it gives you pause for thought, you know, because I was looking for scrape marks. And it wasn't like a deer or elk could, you know, come up and like rubbing the felt off. There weren't any scrape marks from a bear. I mean, this just, this was a fresh, healthy tree that's something that's snapped off at like seven and a half feet. And West's this thing must have been where it snapped.

It was a good, what, six, seven inches around. I mean, and even then, it's like, well, a broken tree doesn't necessarily make a soft squash siding. So, but anyways, we head up there past where I was camped at. And where I'm camped at was like about, I want to say almost a half, maybe quarter to a half mile in from the paved road. And then it kind of takes a hard right. And when it does, there's a hillside on the left hand, on our left hand side.

But I want to paint a picture, too. This has all been logged off probably. I want to say probably three years prior. Can I give you an idea of, you know, you see you've got briar bushes, but you don't really have a whole lot of big trees, nothing like that. You've got some small alders. You've got some saplings coming up. You've still got some residual brush piles from where they logged it.

And where my tent was, it was a creek there. And so there's a little stand of trees because they don't log within like 50, what is it, 50 feet of a creek. And it was, we went up past my tent. and as we're going down the road, there's a hillside to our left. And as you go down the road, you kind of get closer to the hillside because the hillside kind of angles towards the road as you go down the road, if that makes, you can kind of picture that.

So we get down there about 300 yards. I've stopped to tie my shoes or something. And they're 100 feet ahead of me, him and his two brothers. And by the way, so I've got a 12-gauge. He's got a high-powered hunting rifle. He was either 270 or not six. his little brother Casey, who was about 12 years old, 13 at the time, he had a 22, and his other little brother, Chris, has got a BB gun, and he's like nine years old.

So I've stopped to tie my shoes. They're like 100 feet ahead of me, and I look up on the hill and I see a four point. Well, I try to get their attention, and I probably got buckfear because I'm like, dough, dough! And I meant to say deer. Well, this deer starts going over the hill into the reprod up on top. And so I take a shot at it with a shotgun, and this thing's probably 60 yards away. I know I'm not going to hit it.

I'm not going to do any damage to it, but it got their attention. So they're like, they turn around. Like, hey, what are you shooting at? Like, that buck did just one of those trees up there. So we all go scurrying up the hill to these trees. And when you get up on top of this hill, it's all flat up there. And it's all like new 10, 12 year growth. You know, so you're in these like 10 or 12 foot fir trees.

And they're all bunched close together where they planted them. And my buddies were like, well, you go in the trees. You kick this buck out. and we'll shoot it. I'm like, all right, sounds like a plan. So I go in about 30 feet, and I cut left, and I start walking about another 30 feet. And this is where, and this is, it's indescribable. I don't want to say fear. You started getting very apprehensive. I mean, something wasn't right. You just get a bad feeling. And I remember pausing and just kind of looking around at the trees around me and thinking, you know, I'm the one

with the gun. I shouldn't be feeling like this, but I am. And it's getting worse. And so I cut back to where they're at. There's a, at the edge of the trees where we came up the hill, there was an old road that it kind of grasped over. So I come out of the trees and I'm like, hey, I'm coming out, don't shoot. And I'm like, guys, you know, we need to get out of here. It's, I just, I'm not feeling and I've just got a bad feeling. And they start teasing me about being a city boy because, you know, when you're from the country, no one ever falls ever country enough.

And the tone starts changing though. And I honestly, I think they start feeling it too because now they're like, well, you know, yeah, it's starting to get kind of dark. And yeah,

maybe we should get out of here. So we buggy back down the hill. We get back on the road and we start going back to where I'm camped at. And at this point, once I'm down the hill and we're back on the road, I'm not feeling afraid anymore. We're just, you know,

happy, go lucky. boogging out of the woods. So we get down around where the road curves away from the hill. So now we're facing away from the hill. And at this point now, the hill is about 100 yards to the top. And at the top is still the reprod. About halfway down the hill, there's a brush pile. And it was like 13 to 15 feet, kind of an oblong shape.

But it wasn't very high. I mean, we're four feet high at the highest. And we're walking away, and we hear something at the top of the hill. And so we turn and we stop. We look up there, and we don't seem. nothing, but we're thinking, well, maybe it's that buck going to come out after all. And we stand there for a second and nothing happens like, well, you know, I don't think it's just going to come out and invite itself to us. So we turn back around, start walking. And we don't make it maybe,

you know, 30 or 40 feet. And we hear a pretty good snap. And we snap around and we look up at that brush pot because that's where the sound comes from. But we don't see anything. And the sun is still up. The ball of the sun is just kind of starting to hit the horizon, so, or the, mountain. So it's still daylight. And we're looking at this brush pile, and we're not seeing what made the snap, but it was loud enough that whatever made the snap, we should be able to see. And this is, you know, so we're sitting there staring at it and we're like, well, maybe it's a bear. Bears are small and they're dense. And maybe, you know, there's a bear in that pile that we're not seeing it. Maybe it broke it and it's just frozen. So we're like, okay. So we turn

around and we start walking for the road again. At this point, I'd say we're about, I want to say, you know, three-eighth of a mile to the paved road. And as we start walking, we don't get very far, and we notice something in the bushes about 15 yards off to our left. So on the right is pretty heavy brush. I mean, really heavy, dense brush that I wouldn't want to walk into. It looked like it had probably been logged off about 10 years previous. So it's grown up pretty thick. But to our right, it's still, looks like it'd been just logged off a couple years prior. So it's mostly briar bushes and stuff like that. And the landscape kind of falls off from the road, kind of slants down just a little bit. And so we're walking along and we hear something, we stop. And we're like,

well, you know, it could be a coyote, could be that bear, could be, could be that buck, maybe we're we're going to get venison after all. And so we start walking, it walks. And, you know, you stop, you may hear like one more step or what sounded like a step. And sometimes it would sound like it could just be a rabbit running through the briars. Sometimes it sounded a little bit heavier than that. So we kind of play this game for a little while, and we don't really think much of it. We get to where we are about 100 yards from the paved road. And you know how like when somebody looks at something, everybody else kind of like just involuntarily looks that way?

We're all looking at someone who looks to the left and we're all looking, and all of a sudden, there's three poplar trees and the sun has just gone down. It's bright orange on the horizon. There's three poplar trees that are about 12 to 15 feet high and they're kind of gently blown in the wind to our left. And in between the one on the far right and the next poplar is the distinct head and shoulders of something standing there. It's, you know, seven feet tall.

And I mean, it looks like a cardboard cutout of Chabaca, is what it looks like, except maybe the head's not that tall. And we're sitting and we're all staring right at it. And, you know, I've got my shotgun. Josh has got the high-powered rifle.

Casey's behind me with the 22. It was a little brother, and we're not saying anything. We're just looking at it. And I'm thinking, you know, is that a stump? Is that a bush?

Now, I've walked this road. I don't know how many times. And I've never noticed any kind of stump or brush. But, you know, in the moment, you're like, you don't jump to the conclusion.

that it's soft squash or it's aliens or anything. I mean, you're trying to find the logical conclusion. And then I started thinking to myself, I'm like, well, if it is soft squash, maybe I should shoot at it. And man, no more did that death thought come into my mind. And I got this weird sensation that that would just be a really bad idea. And, you know, how do I explain this? If it had been a bear, I guarantee you, we would have shot it.

I mean, we'd come out to the woods to get some. something, you know, if it had been an elk or anything, we would have shot it. But we've all, you know, three of us have firearms. And there's just something that said that those aren't going to help. And I can't explain it. But it was just, I felt kind of, I don't want to say helpless at the moment. But yeah, though, it just, it was just, it was just, no more that that thought come across my mind than I realized that that was just a really, really bad idea. And we're looking at this thing, we've probably been staring at this thing for 10 or 15 seconds. And I kind of said my buddy Josh, I'm like, hey man, is that what I think it is? And before I can finish my sentence,

the thing shifts its weight from one foot to the other. And the poplars are blowing to the left. And you can see this thing as the head rises up, moves to the left, and then settles back down, almost like it, like it stepped down a couple inches when it shifted its weight onto its would be left foot. And man, we ran like little girls. we sprinted for about 70 feet or so. And when we get to that point, between the road and about 50 yards in was all old growth forest that they hadn't logged because it was next to the road and it's dark. And instinctively, we just all kind of like put our backs to each other and we're kind of like

shoulder to shoulder. And I'm looking at the forest. And I mean, I remember that how kind of is now, because right now I'm pretty kind of freaked out. and I'm looking at this really dark forest in front of me that I can't see into. And I'm probably 10 feet, if that from the tree line. And I've got the shotgun pointed at the tree line. Josh has got his gun pointed like where we're headed towards the pavement. Casey's got his gun pointed at his little 22 behind us and the brush behind us.

And we basically like back to back and kind of quick step it out to the paved road. And in hindsight, it's kind of almost funny in a way because we get out to the paved road. And once you hit the pavement, there is, this sense that, ah, we're back in civilization. And we're still scared, but we're not terrified, if that makes sense. And looking back on it, I think, because we're still no more, we're probably 100 yards from where we just saw I saw Squatch. And most people, if you were out in the woods or something, and you were only 100 yards away, you would probably still be, you know, that terrified, but there was something about being on pavement that almost made you feel like you were back

in the civilization. And so we're in the middle of the road. And we've still got our guns trained on the forest. And yeah, we just kind of like sidestep it down to his house, you know. And honestly, I don't even remember what we talked about. I'm sure we were talking about what we had just seen. And he was probably saying, well, I told you so. But, you know, and because it was against the sun, all I saw was a dark silhouette. I mean, I couldn't tell you the facial features.

It didn't throw rocks. It didn't vocalize or anything like that. But, you know, one minute you're staring at what could quite frankly be a car. cardboard cutout and then it moves. And there, and there was that, just that fluidity of movement as it shifted its weight from one foot to the other where, you know, the head kind of moves slightly independent of the shoulders as they kind of rocked. I'll never forget that. It only last like a second for the thing to shift its weight from one foot to the other. But it's at that moment that you realize, oh, wow, man, this is real. And yeah, my mindset changed real quick.

all of ours did. You know, we went from, you know, we were being, we were the hunters. Well, I don't want to say I felt like the hunted, but I definitely didn't feel as secure as I did a second before, you know, so. Yeah, it's like I was telling you the other night, you know, when you see something that appears to be a huge figure standing there, you know, it could be parodolia, it could be a lot of things, you know, your mind playing tricks on you, that sort of thing. but when it shifted its weight and you saw that movement, I can imagine it would become very, very real in that moment. It did.

And like I said, and the other thing was it shifted its weight against the wind. You know, the trees were very clearly blowing to our left. And this thing shifted its weight to our right. And when that happened, it was just like, you know, because you're already kind of like, say you're kind of thinking it. It's like, man, that looks like it, could it be it? and when it moves, you're like, oh, it is. And honestly, you know, when I was up in the reprod,

I felt a fear or an apprehension, not because of anything I saw. I just, I don't know, man, it just, I was getting a bad feeling. And I really think that when I fired that shotgun that I got these things attention, you know, we were at a season. And animals know, like we were talking,

animals know what hunting season is. And I'm pretty sure that this creature, you know, I was like, hey, man, there shouldn't be anybody up here shooting. What is this about? And they probably just came, you know, check things out. But when we were looking at it, at first I wasn't afraid because I didn't know what I was looking at, but I wasn't getting that just that weird apprehensive fear that I felt up in the trees

until it moved. And then you're like, ah, you know, it really is that. And it's time to go. And so I don't know if that's something that these creatures can control. Because like I said, when I was up in the tree, I didn't smell anything. I didn't hear anything. I just all of a sudden had a bad feeling. You know, and it's like something almost emanates from your core.

Can I ask you, Frank, that feeling that you felt that day, had you ever experienced something like that before? You know, that feeling of dread and fear kind of, it's hard to describe. I know what you mean. But had you ever felt that before in your life? Well, yeah, actually, this is going to sound kind of hokey, but I've actually lived in two haunted houses. and those were the only other times when I felt like that.

And it was the same sensation. Sometimes, you know, I don't want to get off on a tangent here, but sometimes you live in a haunted house and you'll forget things are haunted. It's like things just happen every so often. And but once in a while, yeah, I would just all of a sudden get this fear, this unexplainable apprehension like, you know, like, like, how do I explain it? Like somebody's there with you. You can't see them, but you can feel them.

I mean, it is just that tangible. And that's kind of how I felt up there in the trees. Like, man, I'm not alone. And I'm unwanted, you know. And that's the only other time. You know, I was out there living in that tent for a couple weeks. I never felt any bad. I've been in the woods my entire life.

And I've never been afraid to be out in the woods. But that moment, I was. and I, unexplainable. I don't know why. Like I said, I can almost say if you like, you heard a growl, that would scare you. Or, you know, you hear something rustling in the bushes that you don't know what it is. You know, there might be that apprehend, but no, there was nothing. It was just me.

My friends were being quiet and it just got a bad feeling. And so, I mean, it's something, it's something primal, you know, that warns us of predators, I guess. But, I mean, I've been around like vicious dogs and I didn't have that sense of dread or apprehend. or apprehension that I did then. So, I mean, it's, I don't know. The only time I've ever felt that, yeah, is that I've lived in two houses that were haunted, and there were a couple times when I felt like that.

But other than that, no. I've been in the wood since then. And like we're talking about the other day, I said, you know, it's like back then, I was securing the knowledge that there was only like one or two of these creatures in the entire world. So I've been back in the woods since then, and I never had a problem with it.

And everybody thought much other. it until I started listening to your show, you know, which, you know, is the other thing, too, is like, you know, in hindsight, knowing what we know now, I seriously doubt that that was the only creature out there, you know, there were probably more of them around. And I wonder, like, had I been by myself, would things have been different, you know, if we'd acted aggressively towards this creature, I don't think that would have worked out well. But, you know, these creatures, they didn't act aggressive towards us. They didn't throw anything. Like I said, they didn't vocalize. But I also, I truly believe that if you see or hear these creatures, it's because they want you to.

I think, you know, they wanted us to know that, hey, we're walking you out of the woods. And as long as you're headed out of our home, everything's going to be cool. So, I don't know. You know, the other thing I'm curious about, Frank, and it's a question I don't think that you can answer, but I'm curious about your impression. You guys are all kind of walking out. You hear this tree snap or this branch snap. And everyone kind of turns and looks.

And as you're walking out, you guys were being followed out or paced out. Do you think the one that snapped the branch was the one pacing you guys out? I did, because at the time when we realized that we had been followed out by a Sasquatch, and at the time, we thought, you know, we thought there was only one. But now, I honestly don't know because it's hard to explain the topography of the land across the, you know, over the phone. But as we were walking away, we're kind of like walking past where my tent was and there's a little creek there. And for something to come down that hill kind of cross that little creek, it wouldn't have been crazy like a couple feet across,

but still you would, you would have thought we would have heard something. And so I honestly don't know. But the other thing I've considered, too, is, you know, what I've heard and seen since then. You know, like I said, behind us, it was really thick brush behind us. And so we're I wasn't even worried about my back because this was so thick that if a grown man were to go in there, you'd have to do it very slowly and you'd have to be really heavily clothed. You know, and it was just really thick brush. But it makes me wonder if there were some back there too. So, yeah, I don't, I honestly don't know if the one we saw was the one that made the snap or not.

And if I had to guess, you know, it gives the audience an idea of the snap. If you have a dry season piece of wood, about two and a half or three and two, just round. And you were to break that over your knee, that crack. That's, you know, something that broke something that big. That's what it sounded like. I mean, it was a good crack, you know, and that's why when we looked up there, I remember, man, we were like, man, whatever made that should be big enough that we should be able to see it. And we couldn't. And that was kind of, yeah, that kind of put us on edge, but we were like, well, I mean, you know, maybe a bearer or maybe an animal had shifted on another log and a log fell and snapped something. You

You start rationalizing things when things like that happen. Like I said, you know, nobody, the first thing, you know, nobody, you don't just jump to conclusions. Oh, everything goes bump to Sasquatch, you know, at this time it's like, well, nothing is Sasquatch. Because at that point where I'm like thinking, softwax is really the last thing on my mind. Let's just put it that way. Yeah, I can understand that. I mean, it's a point in your life where you, you know, you kind of think it's all BS. And I get it.

I get where you're coming from. And, you know, through Estacada, the Clacchamus River runs, and there's a lot of different tributaries that run off of the Clacchamus River. What strange is in that area, a lot of people go missing, and a lot of people drown in that river. I've heard that hunters go missing up there. And like I'm saying, you know, it's funny. I went to high school there. I grew up in that area. And my buddy Josh was the only one that ever talked to me about having kind of sighting.

So, you know, and a lot of my friends or dads. were loggers, you know, they all hunted in the area. You know, we spent our youth running around in the woods. And up the Clackamas, we mostly went up there in the daytime, you know, went to the swimming spots and stuff like that. So, but yeah, and this property is, because I Google Earthed the other day. And as the crow flies, it was only like, I don't know, I want to say six or seven miles from the river from the Clackamas River in between his house and the river is just nothing but forest. And so, I mean, it's a perfect habitat for creatures like that. But that's also why, you know, you go out there and they're deer and, you know, a large game because it's a lot of

forest form to thrive in. Yeah. Over the years, I've gotten many encounters out of Estacada and around that area. They seem to, a lot of the encounters seem to happen right around that Clackamas River, almost like they're hanging around in that area. I wanted to ask you, going back to your encounter, I always like to look at behavior with these creatures. How do they behave in different situations?

and, you know, you guys were just a bunch of kids out there, you know, young adults out there. And there wasn't the aggression. But what I find strange is it's almost like the creature was trying to get your attention by snapping the branch. That's just kind of the impression I get listening to the encounter. Well, and that's my, yeah, because, I mean, the thing was concealed the whole way. We didn't even know it was there. Even when we were staring right at it, we didn't know what we were. looking at and it had to have known when it was standing there that it was in the open

it knew it was backlit by the sun that it you know the orange glow in the sky so it it purposely showed itself to us and you know I I don't know I the only thing I can think is it was it was a hey we're here this is our home maybe you guys need to leave you know But as I say, it wasn't aggressive. So, I mean, I don't know what motivates these creatures. I really don't. I'm not an expert on primate behavior. And I do think they are sort of kind of a primate.

But, yeah, you know, it wasn't like it chased us out of the woods. So maybe we weren't really in its territory. Maybe it left its territory to come investigate me. And so that's why it wasn't as hot. It wasn't hostile. Maybe we were like on a neutral ground, if that makes sense. Yeah, that's part of their behavior that really surprises me because, you know, after interviewing so many eyewitnesses, I can tell you it's pretty rare for these things to really chase someone down or run them down. There is encounters where people are chased.

Don't get me wrong. But it's not, I think if these creatures really wanted to run someone down, you're not getting away. And a lot of people get away. and you know in this situation I think it was walking you out and based on eyewitness testimony they tend to do that a lot well and so maybe that's what it was doing and maybe it was well and the other thing maybe it was as cautious as it was because it was four of us and I think you're right I think they know what guns are you know obviously it had to have known we were armed he heard the gunshot so maybe it was acting cautious as well for that reason maybe they didn't want to provoke us

afraid that we were going to start shooting. You know, I can say, it's so many questions. If I could go back in time and I could run this scenario over and over, I'd love to run the scenario with, like, just one person to see how that creature reacted. I'd love to run the scenario where,

you know, maybe we throw a rock at it and see what it does. But, you know, this would all be like a computer scenario because I wouldn't want to be there when you're doing this. But it's those questions you ask yourself, so it's like, you know, if this had been different, you know, and like I said, I'd walk through there, I was living out there for two weeks, and I never felt weird or anything. I never had any big, you know, other than an occasional pine co falling on my tent.

You know, there was just nothing to think to anything like that was out there. How far away was your buddy's home that you guys ran back to? So from where I was camped, he was probably about a mile and a half. So, you know, it was a quarter mile up from his house up to where the logging road intersected. Well, so I guess to be like three quarters of a mile because then it was another half mile back to my tent. So about three quarters of a mile. Did you guys ever go back to the location after this happened, being that it was so close to your friends home? No, I didn't. So ironically enough, the reason I was up there was because I'd quit school and I was just kind of going to be like Grizzly Adams.

And the next day, we were making breakfast and he got in a fight with his little brother. Well, his little brother tried to hit him with that BB gun. So he took it away from him and hit him back with it. His little brother goes running to his sister. His sister calls the cops. So the cops show up. We go running out the back door. The cops chase us.

I get caught. He doesn't. And I ended up getting, you know, because now I didn't know of it at a time, but my mom had reported me as a runaway, even though I was 17 years old. So I get a free ride back down to Estacada. And I have not been to that place since. I never went back and got my stuff. I just ended up living in town for a few weeks before I joined the Navy. He told me, too, he called me and said, well, you know, we got your tent.

We got your stuff. You know, we brought it back to the house. And I was like, okay, well, I'll come get it someday. Just never did. Yeah, and I kind of alluded to this earlier. You know, I don't trust these things around kids one bit. But in a lot of eyewitness encounters and actually talking to a lot of little kids who've seen them, you'll see a little bit of a difference in their behavior, for example.

Like, for example, I think if it would have been four grown men out there, you guys probably would have had a different welcoming or exiting. Not that I think it would have slaughtered everyone, but I think there would have been way more aggression. And I wonder sometimes, you know, you guys are 17-year-old kids. And, you know, 17-year-olds aren't generally speaking. You can look at them, go, oh, still a kid. I mean, there are a few 17-year-olds I've seen that I'm like,

wow, that guy's a monster. But for the most part, you see a 17-year-old. old and you still think kid, and I wonder if in the creature's eyes, it saw a bunch of kids. Therefore, you guys didn't have the aggression foregrown men might have had. Right. Well, so my buddy Josh, he was 18. I was 17. But, you know, his little brother, Casey was only like 12 or 13 at the time.

His other little brother, Chris was only like 9 or 10. So they were obviously, like, you know, Chris was still, we consider a little boy. Casey was starting to come out of less. But hell, he was only, what, four and a half feet tall. So it was pretty obvious to see that he was, you know, he was young. So I think these creatures would have definitely recognized, at least those two, as being children. So I don't know if that had something to do with it or not. But, yeah, you see, that's more questions.

You know, if we'd all been grown men, you know, would that have changed the scenario? Would they have acted differently? You know, or do these creatures, do they have reasoning? And they're like, oh, this is just a bunch of kids screwing around the woods. Let's just walk them out and see what they do. Yeah, I've asked myself that question, you know, do they recognize? that we were so young and we were just, you know, messing around on the woods. Yeah, I think that they do.

And that's my opinion, of course, but I can tell you after interviewing so many eyewitnesses, I've noticed there's kind of a pattern. And again, I'm not saying that I trust these things, whatever they are around kids. But what I have noticed is with children, they tend to handle them more with kid gloves, as opposed to an adult, you know, there's way more aggression, there's way more, seems to be anger. And with children, they don't quite do that. I'm curious, Frank, you know, I know this happened to you 34 years ago, and I ask everyone on the show, and there's no wrong answer.

But what do you think that these creatures are? What are your thoughts? So, even then, I really thought it was like what we'd call a relic hominid. And at the time, I really thought that this was a die. Because all I really knew is what you saw it in search of and stuff like that. And I thought, these are probably a dying species of some sort of maybe a Neanderthal or some sort of ape. But I figured these are, you know, because they're so rare in the time, you know, no one's ever killed one. And we never had a body.

And so it kind of just leads you to the fact that it's like just some relics from the past times that's just dying out. And this may be the last one that there is. And it wasn't until, you know, watching your show, I realized that these things are so prevalent. And after listening to your show and after hearing so many testimonies, I still think, I really think it's a primate. I think it's some sort of relic hominid that is gone on a different evolution than we did. They're definitely intelligent. And I really, I don't know how intelligent they are. And I know as a species, we suffer from hubris bad.

We think we are the smartest, you know, apex predator on the planet. planet. But being wrong about the fact that we're the apex predator, we might be wrong about the fact that we're the smartest ones in the world, too. And that really kind of changes things. I mean, so I'm not trying to give you a non-answer. It's just such a confusing thing because there's so many things that change the equation. These things are so intelligent and they've avoided this for so long, you know, which one of us is really higher on that food chain? So are they a relic hominid? Are we the relic hominid?

I mean, which one of our species is more advanced? You know, while we can change our environment to suit our needs, they seem to have changed themselves to suit their environment. And, God, I don't know, man. It almost feels like if you say that it's just a primate, it's an undiscovered ape or something like that, that you're really underselling these things, and maybe, you know, we're giving into that hubris

that we're, because we think we're so superior. And I got to tell you, man, when I was in the presence of this thing, I did not feel that superior. So, yeah, I think I'm positive. They've got to be some sort of primate. I mean, they're not supernatural. I hear a lot of, you know, unicorn stories out there. And it's like, no, I don't think they're supernatural.

But I do think they're, they're intelligent than we give them credit for. One of the things that I hear on your shows that really kind of gives me the creeps is the these things hunt. And, man, there's, I don't know of anything on the planet that hunts like they do where they spread out and they communicate their positions and they zero in almost like a military operation. And that, that should scare anybody who wants to go into the woods with these things. You know, and that belies and intelligence that there just isn't, I've never seen anything like that in the animal kingdom. Yeah, going back to the intelligence, how smart that you think that they are, and I would agree with you that they are very, I think they're probably

more intelligent than we give them credit for. It's hard to argue with that. After 34 years, you know, this happened to you, 34 years ago, do you think that's why no one can catch up with it because of their intelligence? Oh, yeah. I mean, they don't want to have anything to do with us. I mean, I'm sure they're probably curious like we are. But you, like I was telling you, like I was telling you, or I was expressing you yesterday about the vermin, you know, I wonder if they, they think of us like vermin, you know, like a rat, you know, a rat comes into your house. You don't immediately want to, you don't want to touch it. So you might not attack it right away, but you're definitely going to shoe it out of your house. And if that rat doesn't want

to shoe away, well, then you'll take things to the next step. And man, and that seems to be how they treat us. So, I mean, does the rat who invade your house? Does he go back and tell all these little rat friends that, yeah, man, I saw a human and I'm smarter than that. human, you know, and because when we go out in the woods, we're in their house, you know, and when we step in their territory, it would be like a rat going coming into our kitchen. It's just, man, it's just so hard without knowing the other side of the equation was going through their head what these creatures are. I have no doubt that, yeah, we haven't caught one because they don't want to be caught.

You know, we don't find Bigfoot. They find us. It's kind of like fishing, you know, we're the bait. And they come and they always find us. You're not going to track one of these creatures down. One of the things I do find fascinating about some of the accounts you had, those, people who sit in tree stands. And I think, yeah, I think if you're downwind from one of these creatures and you're in a tree stand and you're quiet, I, man, I think those accounts are fascinating because now you see them in their natural state where they're not agitated, where they're just doing what they naturally do. because when we when we encounter them

they're obviously we're changing the state when they get agitated or they're being defensive we don't really see how they act on their own so those guys in those tree stands who have seen them

I think that's those are really neat observations or people who have heard them speaking I mean you seem to have a language I've heard the samurai chatter or not in person but I mean I've heard the recordings man tell me any other creature in the world that does that there's a seriously creepy intelligence there.

You grow up thinking that we are the dominant species on this planet. And we may not be. So, man, I don't know. When you say, you ask, well, what is it? Well, that's a million dollar question, isn't it? Yeah, you know, when you told me your rat theory the other night, kind of a light bulb went off because that's exactly how they deal with us. It's like you were saying, Frank, you know,

If a rat's in your home, you're going to open the front door, grab the broom, do everything you can to kind of scare it to make it go away. You're really not looking to engage or fight a rat. You just want it to go away. That is kind of how they deal with us. I think it's a very cool insight. And I know this happened to you over 30 years ago, but I really appreciate you taking the time to come on and share it with us, Frank. Dude, it's my pleasure. And like I said, you know, it's not a very important.

very harrowing account, but yeah, I mean, that's what happened. There's just a bunch of kids bummed around the woods, and there we were face-to-face. I mean, it sounds funny. It sounds surreal when you say it out loud, but we were literally, yeah, face-to-face with a big foot, you know, and it's like, wow. But yeah, pleasure was all mine. And that's it for tonight, everyone, remember if you've had an encounter, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. And if you get a chance to check out Sasquatch Chronicles.com,

you can become a member and get additional shows. Until next time, everyone.