Sasquatch Chronicles - SC EP:958 Living Next Door To The Minnesota Iceman

Episode Date: May 29, 2023

Mike writes "I lived next to Capt Francis Hanson (owned the iceman) growing up. My parents and myself are still excited speak with you. My father is a retired sheriffs deputy and my mother retired from Mayo Clinic." I spoke to the family and they have agreed to come on the show. Carl who is Mike's father said "I will tell you why the Minnesota Iceman disappeared. The building Capt Hanson had this creature in burned down." Carl and his brother worked part time on the Hanson farm.

It looked like somebody was bent over and had their head in the window of the deer blind and it either heard me or smelt me and he pulled his head out of the tent and stood straight up and that shocked me. They don't make people that big. The way it moved, almost as if it was gliding across the beach. I've never seen anything moves like that in my life. They were screaming at each other in gibberish. It sounded like a language and they were chuntering away back and forwards, back and forwards, back and forwards.

I know what a bear looks like and there is no way on this planet that what I saw were bears. What happened what are you reporting? Get somebody out here. What's going on now, sir? That's son of a bitch is about six of a six years. Mitch is about six foot nine, I don't know. Do you see a bouncer? Yes, I'm looking right in it.

Uh-uh. Well, hello, my fellow believers. This is Luke from Bend, Oregon, and I got a fever, and the only prescription is more Sasquatch Chronicles. Minnesota Iceman. In 1968, a man by the name of Frank Hansen, who went by Captain Hansen, due to his military service, was traveling around the United States with a specimen. It was described as a male, human-like, six feet tall, hairy, with large hands and feet, very dark brown hair that was about three or four inches long, and a flattened nose. One of its arms appeared to be broken and one of its eyes appeared to have been knocked

out of its socket, allegedly by a bullet that was said to have entered the creature's head from behind. Frank Hansen created a side show exhibit and kept this manlike creature frozen in a block of ice. It was displayed at shopping malls, state fairs, and carnivals. And he promoted it as the missing link. What is interesting is at this time, most people who viewed this creature said it looked like a real being. The problem was that Frank could never keep his story straight on how he acquired this creature. As he toured America, he had all of these fantastic stories on how he obtained it. Frank didn't really care. He was thrilled because people were happy to pay to see the Minnesota Iceman.

It was time to cash in. Welcome the good people of Wisconsin. Come one, come all. Step right up and behold the Minnesota Iceman. Please form a line here and no pushing. Everyone will have a chance to see it. Yes, you in the back, what is your question? Where in God's name did you get this? Funny story, Jack. A Japanese whaling ship found the body. They didn't want it so I took it.

Why take it? Because that's how I roll. Are there any other questions I can give non-answered to? Thank you for coming. The Iceman and I are glad to. to be here in Steak Town, Nebraska. Form a line here to see the ice, man. Are there any question? Yes, you in the red dress. Yes, I have one. How did you acquire this creature?

You are the first person to ask me that the animal was shot on a hunting trip in the white-faced reservoir region of Minnesota. I also got my first elk of the season. It was a hell of a day. I am happy to be here in Ohio. Come on, come all and get a good look at the Minnesota Iceman. Everyone better have paid at the door. Who has a question for me?

Go ahead, Jack. What is your question? Mr. Hansen, how did you get the body? First time I have been asked that. Well, let me tell you, Jack, the body was discovered floating in a block of eyes off the Siberian coast by a Russian hunting vessel. you believe that a block of freaking ice i am thrilled to be in iowa form a single line here step

right up and get a look at this freak show are there any questions for me yes where did you get this creature that is a great question no one has asked me that before i have some business connections in china the body was found in a deep freeze facility in hong kong and you just took the creature. That's how I roll. No more question. I always assumed that the Minnesota Iceman was nothing more than a stuffed dummy that Frank created. About five years ago, I was contacted by a retired professor of anthropology from a prestigious university here in the United States. He told me back in 1969, he viewed the Minnesota Iceman and was 99.9% sure it was real. At the time, Frank was charging a nickel or quarter or whatever it was at that time to view it.

And this professor had paid $5 so he could stay and examine this creature. He was convinced by the biology and the physical characteristics that this creature was very real. He said that he had returned to see the Minnesota Iceman again in the mid-70s. And he told me it wasn't the same creature he saw in 1969. This one in the mid-70s was an obvious stuffed dummy. In 1968, the specimen was brought to the attention of cryptozoologist Ivan T. Sanderson and Bernard Hovelmans, who was a scientist and explorer. Sanderson and Hovelmans examined the Icemen in December of 1968 at Hansen's home, where it was being stored off show for the winter.

Both men became convinced it was real, so much so that they prepared detailed illustrations. An Hoovelman's, being a scientist, was planning to have this creature described in technical literature. At one point, Sanderson and Hovelman were examining the body. And during this examination, the glass over the case cracked. Frank was not happy. Hey, hey, hey, what the hell, Jack? Who the f*** is going to pay for this, you f*** donkey? I should have never let you donkeys in here.

When the glass broke, the men said it released an odor and they described it as decomposing flesh. Hovellman's published a 1969 paper in a Belgian scientific journal, identifying it as a new species of the human genus. He named it homopongnoids, meaning ape-like man. One of the stranger theories about the body's origin is that it was collected in Vietnam and flown to the United States in a body. body bag. Hoovelmans had had reports sent to him and he connected it with the story of this huge

ape being killed in Dang Bang, Vietnam in 1966. This reported incident was where Hansen had been stationed during the war. During the Vietnam War, many soldiers had run-ins with what they called rock apes. They are like Sasquatch reports in North America, only small. Most veterans said that they were on average about six feet tall. The face of the rock apes resembled what a Neanderthal might look like. The original Minnesota Iceman seemed to vanish, disappear. Many years later, Frank had another Minnesota Iceman and started touring with it, but the second one was clearly a stuffed dummy.

Tonight I'll be speaking to Mike, and his father Carl, who is a retired deputy sheriff and his wife, Pam, who's retired from the mail clinic. In the late 60s, they lived next door to Frank Hansen. If you've had an encounter and he'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com and if you get a chance, check out Sasquatch Chronicles.com, you can become a member and get additional. shows. Let's jump into it tonight. I want to welcome Mike to the show. Mike, thanks for coming on. Well, thanks for having me on Wes. And I also want to welcome your parents, Pam and Carl. Thank you guys for being here. Thank you. And I want to start with you, Mike, with this whole Minnesota Iceman and you guys living right next door to Frank Hanson.

If you would kind of give me a background, how did you guys end up living next door to this guy? So my mom grew up in a small community, and I won't be in the town, population of 356 people. And she met my dad, and they got married, and we moved on to a factory farm right next door to Frank Hanson. And we lived there for probably four years, but my dad's twin brother worked for Frank on the farm. and then my dad also worked for Frank part-time on the farm. And, you know, as a kid, I didn't really know any of this stuff. And I got into a book in the library at our little school. And I was reading about Minnesota Giants.

And so I went to my grandma's house. I can't remember if we were just visiting. And I told my grandma, what I was doing in school. And I said, you know, I'm reading a lot of books. And she was good. She said, what are you reading? And I said, well, I just read this really weird book about Giants found in Minnesota. And my grandmother said, oh, yeah, her mother, their parents took their whole family to see these things that they had dug up in Minnesota.

And I'm like, are you kidding me, grandma? You know, because grandma said this, this gospel. And I'm like, you're kidding me. And she goes, no. And I said, well, do you know anything? Is there any other weird stuff like that going on? I was in second grade, first second grade, and she's like, well, you know, Captain Hanson? And I'm like, well, yeah, she goes, well, I think she's got a big foot.

And so that started, you know, I asked my parents about it. And then everybody knows that. And then I asked some of the kids at school, and I didn't get such a good reception on it. So that's where our story starts. And if you would like, I'll let you talk to my folks. Yeah, let me ask you, Carl, because you're retired deputy sheriff. I mean, when you were living next door to Frank, did you just think this guy was crazy? No, actually, he was a good neighbor.

He was gone all summer. We didn't know why he would just take off and go, but he was gone all summer, and we'd see him once in a while during the winter. That's why my brother was working for him, because he had a little farm, and he wasn't able to take care of the animals because he was on the road all the time. and he come home one time and I got to talk to him and yeah he says I've got I've got the ice man is what he called him I said you really he says yes I says my son sure would like to see that he said well you guys are welcome to come up and see it and he kept it in one of the buildings at at the lumberyard and it was in a freezer a chest type freezer and it was covered with ice And he said that.

It was hit by a car in Wisconsin, excuse me, northern Wisconsin someplace. I don't know if it was Sparta, I mean, not Sparta, but Menominee or something like that. But anyway, he ended up with it. He froze it immediately. So it was in a big block of ice, and it kind of looked like, it didn't look like the big foot you see on TV. I'm thinking this was kind of a younger one.

I mean, he had the bristly hair all over his body, and his face kind of looked like some of the earlier caveman. And he said that he used to take it on tour all summer. That's why we never saw him to mall of things, all over the United States. If the big mall opened up, they'd get a hold of him, and he'd bring it down, and he'd set it up in some place in the mall, and they had a big gate they walked. through and they paid a quarter or whatever it was he charged. Yeah, there's so many different accounts of, you know, it's like I was telling the members on Friday night. Frank is so shady about where he got this thing.

You know, so he's telling you guys it was hit by a car in Wisconsin. Did he go into any more details about how he came across it, how he acquired it? he just said that it was hit by a car in northern Wisconsin. He didn't say how he ended up with it. He didn't tell us that, I don't think. Uncle Irving said that he had bought it. Okay. From whoever has hit it.

Okay. And Carl, can I ask you, I mean, as a law enforcement, retired law enforcement, when you go up and you look at this Minnesota Iceman that Frank has, and you're looking at it. What's going through your mind at this point when you're looking at it? You know, I don't really know 50-some years ago.

It definitely looked like a body. If I remember right, there was even a little bit of blood that had come out of the mouth. But I know that he couldn't take it into Canada because the customs wanted to probe it.

And he wouldn't allow that. And when he told me that he would have a probe it. I thought, well, that's because it's not real. Well, the more I thought about it, the more I thought, well, if I own that, I wouldn't let him probe it either. Yeah, I've read many different accounts of him trying to take it into Canada and the Canadians not letting him bring it across the border. Pam, when you saw it, what were you thinking when he saw this thing? First impression was, oh my gosh, what does he have? Because it didn't look like.

anything we had ever seen. And you have to remember this is in early 60s in, oh, no, it was late 60s. There was still belief in a lot of different things. But my husband said he had the blood coming out. And to me, I thought, that's just a makeup type thing to make people think, oh, my gosh, that really is. I thought at first it was real. I couldn't figure out where an hack he would have gotten it. And you almost feel sorry for whatever it was because it's stuck there forever.

And, you know, nobody could test anything on them. But back then we didn't really have a lot of major tests that we know of now. But I just, I was amazed. I thought for sure about that. was real. The blood thing turned me off, but you know, I'm not afraid of blood, but it just, that was more fake

than anything because blood went, if it sits a long time, blood does not stay red. And this was a bright red. So that's kind of... It's like makeup. Yeah, one of the things. And he was kind of crystallized in a way.

So it wasn't a clear view, but yet it was. that you could see little crystals on him. I don't know. It was hard to believe, but yet you couldn't say it wasn't. So we go with, I believe. Yeah, it's interesting you say that, Pam. In the intro, I talked about the anthropologist,

and he kind of said the same thing. Carl, do you think Frank was actually painting blood on there, you know, when he was taken around the United States? I don't know. I don't know. I get to just trickled a little bit and it was frozen in the ice. That's, you know, he was title was Captain Hanson. So he was retired from the military. I don't know what branch he was in. He thought it was blood because, you know, somebody that retired from the military wouldn't really be pulling your leg. We definitely, it definitely was real. I know it was. It just, I think it was maybe a, you know, young one because it doesn't look like any pictures I've seen since.

And I, you know, that's about all I can say. If we ever heard anything weird noises, I always thought maybe a herd of them are coming to get him or something. You know, it wasn't just a pleasant thing being right next door, actually, with that there. And when he was showing you guys this body, was he saying, hey, this is Bigfoot or Sasquatch, did he kind of used that sort of verbiage? Nope, he called it the Iceman. He says, this is my frozen ice man. He didn't call it a Sasquatch. He didn't call it a man, it's a fourth ice man. Yeah, and throughout the Minnesota Iceman's history, at some point

time, the one that you guys saw vanishes, it disappears. And almost everyone I've, I've spoken with that saw that back in the late 60s. They all agree. They thought it was real. But, you know, later when people went and saw somewhere down the road, another one showed up. And I guess it was just a really bad fake. It was just kind of a stuffed dummy. Were you guys around during that time with Frank when that was going on?

No, no, I don't. Actually, we only live next to him for transfer again. And so, no, I don't. It sure looked real to me. So when we were at my dad's mom and dads, we were there for a visit. And we usually stayed pretty late there. And on the news one, I think it was 60 Minutes or it was one of those reputable TV shows at the time. And they had Captain Hansen on there.

And they were asking him a bunch of questions and this and that. in like the following week. I was coming home on the bus, and there were like six squad cars in Captain Hanson's front yard and two black cars, unmarked cars, with a back hole out there digging on his property, and it was shortly after that

that this thing came up missing. So it was always kind of my thought is when he started getting too much heat from the government on this thing, he made it disappear. And they thought he buried it. And they were, they were out there digging up his property.

They told him he had to stop, they told him he had to stop showing it unless they could prove that it was real. Yeah. You know, I don't know who had, I don't know what company wanted that. I don't think the police department would have, but until, you know,

they wouldn't let him show it anymore unless they could find out exactly they wanted to ship ice away and feel and everything. Yeah, that part makes me kind of stop and go, hmm, because if it's nothing more than just a dummy that he made, and, you know, it's a pretty good dummy looking at those pictures. I'm not so sure it was a dummy, but why would the government care? I mean, to the point to where, you know, they're digging up this guy. as yard to get it. Mike, how old were you when you saw it?

You know, I was probably in second or third grade, but it's one of those, it's one of those memories where I don't remember per se seeing it. Or if, you know, I don't remember if what I remember about it is from seeing it or from what I've heard from my parents. I'll be honest with you, we didn't really ever talk about this maybe two years ago after I started listening to your show

is when I mentioned it to my wife that we used to live next door to this guy. Otherwise, we just didn't talk about it. So I do know that the University of Minnesota had taken a sample of it. And that was one of, because he was getting so much heat from the government. And that was the scuttle butt going around this little town. My grandma lived next to the cafe. and she got all the good gossip because she helped out there. But I know that the University of Minnesota had gotten a sample.

And then I do know that Frank tried taking it up into Canada. And they told them if they got it over the border, they were going to confiscate it. So the government was going to take it from them because they wanted to see if he had a human being. Because it looked like my dad said, Harry looked like a hairy name. Anderhall, you know. And, yeah, they wanted to make sure it wasn't a human. It was too big for a human. The arms were really long, and he was built different.

I think the chest was big, if I remember, right? So it was kind of muscular. It had big legs on it, and the feet were humongous. I remember looking at those feet. I thought those are big. But, no, it definitely wasn't a human. But it's, I think at one time it was a living creature. Yeah, it makes me wonder if the university tipped off the government to some findings that they had.

Let me ask you, Carl, when you were looking at it, what, as far as like the face, what were some similarities as far as it looking human but not being human? It kind of reminded me of like a pig hide, pig skin, fur hide. I mean, it was just, it looked bristly. And the face was, the muscle, the bone in the face looked like it was bigger than a regular human. I thought it looked a lot like a caveman, like a caveman's face. Yeah, I'm jealous. of you guys, because all this is before my time. And, you know, all I can really look at now is black and white pictures.

But you guys got to really examine this saying. Carl, when you were looking at it, I mean, did it remind you more of like an animal, like a non-human primate? Or did it remind you more human-like? Well, it looked more like a human than it did an animal. I mean, it didn't look like an animal. It had longer arms, like an ape would have. That's what, you know, he said that arms were longer. It sure looked darn real.

I wish we could have taken pictures, but that was one thing he didn't want us to do. You know, and I'm not sure why. But we, you know, if you want to see something, more than once you do what they want. Yeah, one of the theories you'll read online is that he didn't want anyone looking too closely at it because he was worried that, would come back human and he'd be charged with, well, all sorts of different charges, but

you know, having a dead human and a block of ice. And that's why he wouldn't let the authorities really look at it. And I don't buy any of that for a second. You know, my first knee-jerk reaction is, yeah, I doesn't want anyone looking at it because it's hollow. But the more you look into this Minnesota Iceman story, the weirder and weirder it gets. And here's my take. on Frank. I think that he was a type of guy that I kind of think this first one might have been real, but he got into the money. He was going around with it, collecting money. He was chasing pennies, basically. And at the end of the day, I don't think that he wanted it examined. I think he knew it'd be taken away. Well, what's your take on Frank? He was kind of like what you just said.

The people in town just, I don't think anybody trust what he said because they all thought he was a fake. In small towns, if you come and you haven't lived there even 20 years, but we had a teacher that moved in. And about 25 years later, he was still considered the new teacher. So that's how towns are. So with Captain Hanson's... He never did fit. He didn't fit, yeah, and he didn't socialize with anybody in town. So I'm just not...

Just kind of strange. I would think if you wanted to sell, you know, pictures or sell whatever, you would be more social. He wasn't. I don't know where he went. When he, you know, went for entertainment, he maybe went to the cities or Rochester. you that he didn't stay in that small town. Yeah, so he was kind of a loner. Pretty much so.

He had two sons, and I think he had a daughter. I'm sure they're still alive. Two boys were in college, I think, when he was out on the farm. And I think his daughter had gotten married or something, so we never really met them. Yeah, I didn't know that he had any children. And, you know, even being kind of a loner, I mean, Carl, you worked for him. You did a lot of part-time work on his farm.

What was he like? You know, he was very meticulous. He wanted things done a certain way, and that's all you did it. And his young woman was top-notch, and he expected you to take care of it. I mean, just like a regular farmer, you know. He was a nice person. And he was a nice guy. He was very social.

sociable and yeah, I like him. Yeah, and you know, coming from a law enforcement background, you know, where people are lying to you and, you know, you can generally smell BS a mile away. But with regard to Frank, you never once got that sense from him. No, no, I did not. I did not. He'd answer your questions, and he had newspaper articles. My god, they were from all over the United States. And he said, here, leave through him.

I mean, he didn't care. He wasn't trying to hide anything. He just, you know, he would take them to malls whenever they opened up and charged a fee to see it. And, yeah, it was, I didn't have a problem with that. I guess you make a buck where you can make a buck. Yeah, and, you know, people who are around during this time, and had met Frank and had seen this first version or this first creature that he was out there promoting and trying to make money off of. And I'm with you, Carl.

I got no issues with that. I do remember, though, I can't remember if it was the anthropologist that told me this or not. But he would actually, like, defrost it and put it kind of in different positions and then freeze it again. And I want to ask you, Pam, at the time that you looked at this thing, and you come from a health care background, did you notice any sort of injuries on this creature when you were looking at it? No. Just the blood on his mouth was the only thing I saw, I guess. At that time, I wasn't really looking for any injuries. But that was, that kind of took.

People would look at that more than they probably. did some of the other parts of him. They looked closer at the blood. I didn't see any injuries. You probably were internal if he got hit. I don't know. You know, I didn't either. I didn't notice any deformities from.

And, yeah, you're right. If you got hit by a car, you would have sure thought something would have been broken and missed on a place. Yeah, I know that some people who did examine, in it. They said one of the eyeballs was coming out of the socket. It was kind of hanging there. And I think the other thing they reported was a broken arm. But, you know, and you're right, Pam. I mean, if he had been hit by a car, there would have been a lot more damage to that body.

Or with the old, you know, it was, oh, it was shot in the back of the head. If it was shot in the back of the head, half of that skull would be missing. And it makes me wonder if maybe he damaged it, you know, trying to get it in that box or moving the corpse around if it was a corpse. And maybe he caused the injuries. It was like they froze him in too small a box to start out with, you know, because he was kind of bunched up. Yeah, I agree, Mike. I mean, it looks like, you know, 20 pounds of flush put in a five-pound bag. I mean, it is kind of crammed in there. You know, with all the mysteries about where he got this thing from,

one of the things that I thought about was maybe Frank did shoot this thing. Maybe he, you know, do you think maybe he shot it there? I mean, you guys knew the area at that time. Do you think he shot it close by his home and just didn't want to say that? Not near his home because ours was a farm, community. I mean, there was no force around there. But I could see it in Wisconsin.

I mean, they're in northern park. They've got all kinds of animals running around there. So I could keep it there, but not where we lived. It was all agriculture. It was, yeah. Yeah, if it's real, I'd sure love to know where he got it from. And, Mike, I know when I was talking to you, I was kind of telling me about the history of the Minnesota Iceman.

and how it just kind of disappears. And then somewhere down the road, a second version shows up that's not very good. And you kind of cleared the air for me on why it disappeared. If you would share that with the audience. Well, so after we moved out of the small town, the building that it was in burned for the ground. And it was supposed to have been in that building. So as far as we know, the thing really got destroyed, and that would have been like... 19706.

So we always figured, you know, anything that was spotted after that, that somebody says they have the Minnesota Iceman is probably a faith. That's what we were led to believe was that it was in the... in this lumberyard fire. Building burnt down, and, you know, the thing of it is, is there probably wouldn't have been much of an investigation. gation into it because they knew it was in the building and, you know, it wouldn't have been out of the ordinary, so nobody probably even dug into it too hard. You know what I mean? Yeah, it actually makes sense because, you know, like I said, that second version that shows up, everyone that looks at it goes, it's a joke, it's a stuff dummy. And you guys had moved away

at this point, correct? Yeah, we had moved away. But, you know, We were still in the community and mom and dad still had all the ties because we only moved about 15 miles away. And they were still involved in all the JCs and that type of stuff in this area. So, I mean, they pretty much were still in contact with all their old friends. My dad went to work for the factory farm. So he was still in this little town working. And my parents. And my mom's parents still lived there.

So, I mean, we still had contact. And that's what we had heard through the people that we still had contact with is that this thing was in the building. Whatever happened to Frank Hansen, do you guys know? We're not, we're not sure. I'm not sure when he, well, he obviously is dead. We're not sure when he died. But I think he moved off the farm at some point, didn't he? Dad, I don't know.

I don't think so. Not that I'm aware of. with him not being part of the community, he wasn't gossiped football again. Yeah, I don't know what happened to it. I don't know what happened to him. When did that second one appear? Do you remember what year?

Yeah, I'm really not sure on the date. I've been told mid to late 70s, some people say many, many years later, when they went to look at the Minnesota Iceman again, it really wasn't what they saw back in 69. And the fire makes sense. I think probably what happened with Frank is, you know, that first one I think could possibly be real.

And I think he wanted to make, you know, he was happy making money. He was happy going around showboating. And I think he kind of came up with a plan to, to make one, throw it back in ice and he's back out on the road. I do remember, I don't think he actually made it into Canada. I do remember the reports of the Canadian border stopping him. Yes, yes, he was.

Yeah, I know they were going to take it from him. They were worried about disease. Oh, yeah, I understand that. I mean, you can't blame the Canadians. I mean, most countries you can't take fruit in, let alone a body and ice. So I get completely why they wouldn't let them in. And it's so cool to talk to you guys, you know, because you kind of get more of an inside of what was going on. And, you know, you hear about all the accounts of, you know, Frank was being harassed by the government.

But I'm not so sure it's written by anyone who knew them. and you guys knew him. I mean, they came and dug up his yard and they were all over this guy. I'm envious that you had the opportunity to meet him and really examine this thing. Well, I think you're right about Frank wanting to make a buck off it. I think with that animal, he thought he was going to be the new PT Barnum. And I think you're right also when the government started leaning on him, and that's when he knew it was serious.

Like he was in the military, so... He was evasive enough so that when you ask him questions, he never said, yes, it is, or no, it isn't. So, you know, you couldn't say he was lying because he never really pinpointed anything other than it was hit, and this is what it is. Well, I truly believe that it was real. I do, too.

I really do. Yeah, you kind of get a sense of, why Frank was so shady and why he was so dodgy with answering questions, you know, and kind of chasing the pennies out there. I think if he would have gone about it a different way, he would have made some real money and furthered the subject. But, you know, who knows? With the pressure he was under, they probably would have just taken it.

The government went ahead in about two seconds. If there was any proof. I think they would have had it in about two seconds for as much as they were all over that, man. Over the time that we knew him, his story never changed about where he got it from and how he came across him. It was always hit by a car and it was always northern Wisconsin. Mike, let me ask you. Here's Frank. He's under the thumb of the government.

They're watching everything he does. and, you know, obviously he's not looking to prove anything. He just kind of wants to make a buck. Do you think it was arson? Do you think he burnt that place down? That way he could go back to the government and go, hey, it's gone, and he can go make his stuffed doll and go make his money, and most of his problems go away?

No, he wouldn't do that. I don't think he would do that. And for the simple fact was this building was in, the middle of town next to the restaurant, the only restaurant in town, and there was houses around it and stuff like that. And I just don't see him doing anything like that at all. He wouldn't do that. No. I mean, when that burned, it was big. It was one of the only businesses we had. So if something burns in a small town, it hurts everybody. Yeah, I must have just been a freak accident. It's very insightful. I really appreciate

your time, Pam and Carl. And before I go, I know that, Mike, you said you had an encounter. Is this on your property? Yeah, this is on our property. So my wife and I bought a a pasture, a 25 acre pasture. And we put a new house on it. And the second year we were there, we finished our deck. And it's a new house. We both smoke. And we don't smoke in the house.

So we went out on the back deck and we're sitting there having a cigarette. And both of us at the same time look and we see these three things. And they're big. and they're on all fours and they are buggy and I mean they're hauling ass and at first

you write it off as a bear you know we occasionally get bear down here but these would have you know they would have had to have been in like the six 700 pound range for something to be that big because the grass they were running

through was probably about four foot tall and and they move funny and they were I can't pinpoint why they move funny, but it wasn't a bear because bears that big don't hang out together. Plus, we don't have bears that big down here. Like occasionally once in a while we'll get a 300-pound bear that wanders down here from up north, and it's usually thick and they die because it's just not the right,

it's sort of not the right stuff down here for them. There's not enough food or things like that, you know. And bears in Minnesota, if you get a 600-pound bear, you probably got a state record because they're not that big here. So, yeah, we both, you know, we both sat and watched these. And, you know, it's like your other collars. You know, you see something like that. You try to write it off. It's something you know.

But that's not common down here. How far away from you was these creatures that you saw? probably about 300 yards from them and Mike when you say it moved funny what do you mean by that how like when a dog runs they'll kind of their legs will tuck up underneath them because you know now if they're play running but I mean if they're scared running

they'll tuck their butt down and and run fast like that well these things were moving that fast where it would have been a dog it would have tucked his hind end down but it didn't and you know a bear a bear when they run they kind of accordion they'll stretch long with the front end and push hard with the front end

and then their back feet will come up in between their legs and they'll push hard with their back legs so they kind of do an accordion thing you know and this didn't do that and plus you know like a bear when they're running they'll stretch their head out I don't know if that's a balanced thing or or if it's why they do it

but we couldn't see the heads on these when they were running and that might have been why it seemed funny. And at the time of seeing these things, how long had you actually lived on the property? Well, at that time, we'd only lived on there probably two years. You know, it was a past year, so nobody had lived there. And I hadn't hunted or anything out there, so there was no pressure. There was no pressure out there for hunting for probably 20 years.

Yeah, and from reading your email, Mike, I know there was two other things that happened. the mainly vocalizations, but how much later was the next incident? Well, it was probably about a year later, maybe a year, a year and a half later, because we had mowed some trails out back in our property. So we got like 25 acres, and it's set up kind of funny, and we had trails out there mowed, and I was taking my wife out to shore this little spot I made for us out there. I mowed it down nice over our creek, and we're walking back there. And something let out a growl or roar so freaking loud that we could feel it in our bodies.

And I'm going to relate this to you. I've been to like seven or eight ACDC concerts. And the last one we were at, we got really good seats. And it was up front in the middle. And they hit that first note on the guitars, and it was uncomfortable. It vibrated so much. that is exactly the feeling that I had when this thing let loose. And it sounded like it was in our back pockets.

You know, we stopped, and both of us just, like, stopped in our tracks. And without a word, we both turned around and we beat hell to the house. And, I mean, I'm looking back behind us, and, you know, it's nothing. It's like, what was that? Where the hell is it? You know, how could something that be that loud? and not see it. You know, how could you feel something?

You know, at ACDC, I'm 100 feet off the front stage. I can see them speakers, and I know what's causing it. Out there, I couldn't see nothing. There was nothing that should have caused that noise. And it was like immediate, stop, turn, and flee. It was, you know, we didn't say a whole lot about it. We both were like, what in the hell was that? Yeah, it's kind of a cash 22.

I often wonder sometimes if it's almost worse not seeing what's vocalizing at you. And you're right, Mike. I mean, when these things vocalize, you will fill it for sure. In your email, you talked about how you don't hunt that property anymore. And it kind of leads up to this last incident. Tell me about that. A couple years later, it was like the last day of the season. And I could see a nice little buck come up.

I'm afraid of heights, so I ground up. And a nice little buck stood up probably about 15 feet from me. And, you know, I had a tag, and it's like, it wasn't as nice a deer like shot, but I did. And I shot it. And, you know, you'll wait for a while to make sure you don't walk up to them when they're wounded. You know, you don't want to get kicked or you don't want to end up chasing them across the country either. So I sat there for about 15 minutes and I started to go up, go up to it. You know, and I'll let you know, too, this whole time before any of this happened, I'm mostly deaf.

And like I told you earlier, I've got hearing aid. and so the big roar that happened when I was deaf so I just shot my gun so my ears are a little ringing and you know I'm partially deaf and I started walking up to this deer and I got I don't know about 10 feet from it and I just heard this gut wrenching growl and it's like holy crap man

there's there's something because it wouldn't die right by this great big sick you know and something growled. Am I hearing that? Am I hearing that? So I walked up a little bit closer and growled again. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, is this a coyote? Is this, you know, what is this?

So I call my dad up, you know, and I'm infamous. My brother and I are infamous for having weak stomachs. First time you get that scent, you know, you get a little queasy. And so I call my dad up and says, Dad, you guys have. to come out here. I said, there's something out here. This thing is not like him to get closer to this deer. And he laughed it off. He's like, ha-ha, you know, we're going to have come out there and gut that deer for you, yada, yada. I'm like, no, Dad, I'm serious. You need to come out here. And so he, he, so I backed off of the deer. I kept it tied in my sight because,

you know, if something was going to come out and get it, I wanted to see what it was. So I'm sitting out there and it seemed like forever and it wasn't that long. But then, so my dad, and brother, they come up and we started to approach a deer and it did it again. And, you know, I'm sitting there with a shotgun. I just shot gun. I just shot the thing like 15 minutes earlier. So I mean, whatever it was knew, well, I shouldn't say that. They didn't know. But so I'm armed and we've got three people and this thing is still aggressive. And it's, you know, growled at us and it's making a lot of noise in this. expect, you know. And my dad's, I thought,

I saw it go get the damn thing, and get the hell out of here, you know. So we, uh, I can't remember which one of us sat with the gun. Two of us ran over and grabbed it and threw it on the four-wheeler and we got the hell out. It was, uh, for me to hear it without hearing aids and it had to have been pretty loud, you know. And, uh, yeah, my brother and dad both, both heard it in the Bronx. I saw it, but, um, to that point, I don't like going out back after dark. And I got friends that want to come out in Kyle hunting stuff like that.

I kind of tell them, hey, no, you can't come out and hunt out here at night. But, you know, outside of our family and one person who I consider family, this really hasn't been talked about between, you know, I haven't told my youngest sister, I haven't told my younger brother, just my second brother and my dad, and, you know, now my mom probably knows. I'm sure I told my wife, but, yeah, no, I don't like it. It's like the story you hear a thousand times on your show.

One thing is one thing. Two things is two things. Third time it happens, it's not a coincidence anymore. You know, it's, you know, the three things I can write off as a bear. The roar, I don't know what the hell that was. And then this last thing, it all kind of makes me think that what we saw was, you know, something running on all fours. You know, I'm going to guess it was 800 pounds, and I bet it was slipping at 40 miles an hour

because it covered a lot of ground real fast. The three of them did. Yeah, I'd be very curious to investigate it. Have you walked around that property? You know what? I have a lot since this happened. Yeah, I can understand that. I would just keep your eyes and your ears open.

I mean, they might have just been passing through if it was one of these things, or it would sound like it was more than one. But I'm with you, too, on coincidences, man. When, you know, one weird thing happens, you can pass. it off, but when it's another thing and another thing, you know, it makes you kind of stop and really question things. I would just keep your eyes and ears open, man, and feel free to hit me up if something does happen. You know, not that I'm Superman, but, you know, I'd be happy to chat and give you any advice that I can give you. Let me ask you, Mike,

you know, you grew up next to the Minnesota Iceman, and then you've had these weird experiences on this property. I ask everyone on the show, what do you think Sasquatch is? And what are your thoughts? Oh, it's got to be an animal. I believe it's an

animal. It's ancient. Whatever it is, it's ancient. It's an old bloodline. It's not something that's 10,000 years old. It's either a human primate that's mid-level or lower mid-level. on that or it's higher up on the non-human, you know what I mean? Yeah, like it's somewhere on our family tree.

Yeah. Yeah, you could be right. I would be careful on that property. Let me know if anything happens. And, you know, I really enjoyed chatting with you, Mike. I really enjoyed chatting with your lovely parents, Carl and Pam. How cool was it? You know, you guys are living right next door to Frank Anson and this Minnesota Ice Man.

And I really enjoyed our conversation. I want to thank you guys so much for taking the time to come on. Very much for letting us talk about it. West. It's going to, you know, it's a story that once my parents are gone, then nobody's going to know. Yeah, well, I'm glad we got a chance to get it out there publicly. Thank you, guys.

again. And that's it for tonight. Everyone, remember, if you've had an encounter, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. And if you get a chance, check out Sasquatch Chronicles.com. You can become a member and get additional shows. Happy Memorial Day weekend, everyone. Make it a great one.