Sasquatch Chronicles - SC EP:959 The Jersey Devil

Episode Date: June 2, 2023

I will be speaking to Stefaun and his father Mike. Both men have seen this entity. Both men describe it as a mix of several animals. Mike said "it had a shimmer to it, it wasn't see through but it had a weird shimmer. We have had a lot of really weird paranormal things happen while we were out there." Mike and Stefaun have returned many times to get another look at it. I asked the witnesses if they have ever had something follow them home after going out to this area repeatedly." Both witnesses said that they have and strange tracks appeared in their yard among other things.  

It looked like somebody was bent over and had their head in the window of the deer blind and it either heard me or smelt me and he pulled his head out of the tent and stood straight up and that shocked me. They don't make people that big. The way it moved, almost as if it was gliding across the beach. I've never seen anything moves like that in my life. They were screaming at each other in gibberish. It sounded like a language and they were chuntering away back and forwards, back and forwards, back and forwards.

I know what a bear looks like and there is no way on this planet that what I saw were bears. What are you reporting? Get somebody out here. What's going on now, sir? That's son of a bitch is about six. This is about six foot nine, I don't know. Do you see a bouncer? Yes, I'm looking right in.

Uh-uh. Look here, Jack. This is Frank Hanson, and you are listening to Sasquatch Chronicles. Welcome to the show, everyone. Thanks for being here tonight. Got a great show plan for you. You know, over the years, I've spoken to a handful of people who've encountered the Jersey Devil. The history of the Jersey Devil is well over 300 years old.

The Jersey Devil originated with a number of the Jersey Devil. a Pine Barron's resident named Jane Leeds, known as Mother Leeds. The legend states that Mother Leeds had 12 children, and after finding out she was pregnant for the 13th time, she cursed the child in frustration, crying that the child would be the devil. In 1735, Mother Leeds was in labor on a stormy night, while her friends gathered around her. Born as a normal child, the 13th The 14th child changed to a creature with hooves, a goat's head, bat wings, and a forked tail. Growling and screaming, the child attacked everyone in the home before flying up the chimney and heading into the pine barons. In some versions of the tale, Mother Leeds supposedly was a witch and practiced witchcraft.

There are reports that even the church got involved at this time. The local clergymen would try to exercise the creature from the Pine Barrens. The origin of the story sounds ridiculous, and whether any of that has any truth to it or not is irrelevant. There have been many sightings and occurrences involving the Jersey Devil. Joseph Bonaparte, elder brother of Napoleon, is also of claimed to have seen the Jersey devil while hunting on his border town estate in about 1820. Up until this very day, people have reported seeing this entity.

Tonight I'll be speaking to Stefan and his father, Mike. Both men have encountered this entity. If you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. And if you get a chance, check out Sasquatch Chronicles.com. You can become a member and get additional shows. Let's jump into it tonight. I want to welcome Stefan to the show.

Stefan, thanks for being here. Hey, Wes, thanks for having me. Yeah, and I also want to welcome your father. Mike, thank you for being here. Hey, thanks for having me, Wes. It's a pleasure and an honor to be on your show, man. I listen to you all the time. My son, he's a big fan, and, you know, he was like,

Dad, we got to send Wes and something an email, let him know about our story. So to be here with you, man, it's a pleasure. It's my honor. I'm so glad that you are welcome on us on your platform. Thank you. Thank you so much. Glad to be here, man.

The honor's mine and the pleasure's mine having you guys on. I really appreciate you guys taking the time. Mike, this kind of start with you. Because your family, give us a whole background on this, because your family has had experiences in the past with this entity. Okay. Well, if you are a New Jersey and, you know, you've been here for the last past couple of days.

I don't know 100 or so years. Everyone knows about the Jersey Devil. It is our state demon. We have a hockey team, the New Jersey Devils, named that. So the legend has been around close to 288 years. I mean, and pretty much original story, you know, the 1735, you know, mother gives birth to her, a demon-like child. And, you know, it pretty much killed everyone in the house and threw out of the chimney and went to the forest. And, you know, and then it was from then all this just, all.

these stories and sightings came about. But for me, how I got into it, it started for me, like in 1971, my parents moved from Philadelphia to New Jersey. And one of the first things that we heard about was this Jersey Devil. So like I said, it's like 1971, the time I'm a small child like four years old. And the first person to have an encounter with the Jersey Devil was my brother, my older brother, Elgin. This was like 1973. I'm like six years old. And It happened to him one night, him and a friend of his. It was like, I don't know, 9, 10 o'clock in the evening, summertime. I guess it was like a Friday, Saturday night.

They hanging out, whatever. So they were walking home. And where we lived at that time is West Akko, New Jersey, which is, you know, now I wouldn't say the heart of the Pine Barrens, because the Pine Barrens stressed for like over a thousand miles. I mean, or not a thousand miles. I should say like a thousand, like a thousand. It's a lot of acres, close to a million, even. I've heard.

But anyway, they were walking home and one side of the street was heavily wooded. And the other side was like houses, woods, house, wood, you know. So they walk at home and they turn around and they see what appears to be a horse standing that out under the night light, under the street light. So my brother's friends like, yo, that's some nice horse got out. or whatever. And my brother says, well, if it comes down here, I'm going to ride him. And my brother said when he said that, it reared up on his hind's legs and his wings came out. And his friend was like, yo, that's not a horse. That's the Jersey devil. So at that point, they take off and they start

running. Now, where they was at was about maybe, I don't know, 100, 120 yards from home. So they're running home. So they're running home. home and his friend, he lived like two houses down from us. So he dips off to his house. And they can say when it was chasing them, they could hear the hooves hitting the ground behind them. They can hear it, you know, like no, feet behind it. And when his friend dipped off and went to his house, he yelled to my brother. He's like, it's right behind you. So my brother had to run past his friend's house, a neighbor's house, through their, through their, yard diagonally and to the back door of our house. And, you know, we sit in home, we hear him come through the door, breaks through the door, yelling and screaming down the hall. He comes in the living

room, my mother and father, like, boy, what's wrong with you? What are you screaming about? He's out of breath and he's panting and saying, oh, the Jersey Devil's chasing me. Making all this commotion. Mind you, I'm six years old. I'm up here just looking. And my parents, Calm them down. Like, calm down. Well, you know, let them get itself together. He tells us what happened. Now, you're going to laugh at this, Wes.

My mom says to my brother, what you out there doing? You smoke on those reefers. That's what they called it back in the 70s. She's like, you spoke with those reapers. So, and he's like, no, no, was it Joe you tell you. You know, so he's like, oh, whatever. My parents were like, ah, you just been out there. You've got to smoke in and doing something you shouldn't be doing.

So that night ended. So we get up the next morning and we go out to the door. The night before he went out that morning, my grandfather had painted the door, because we was living in my, that was my grandfather's house. We were staying in at that time. He had painted the door. The door was originally a white aluminum storm door, like a big solid metal door. He painted it chocolate brown for some reason. Well, when we came out the next morning to look, you know, what was after him, there were scratches on the door. And the scratches where it cut through the brown paint and you can see the original white door underneath the

scratches. And we all looking at each other. I remember being a small kid in my parents and they're like, oh, boy, ain't nothing but a wild dog chased you. And, you know, they just pretty much dismiss his whole story. But fast forward and on, that was his, that was the first encounter that I've heard of anyone having or running with the Jersey Devil. and we fast forward to 1974,

that's when I saw the first documentary of the Jersey Devil, which appeared on NJN, which is the New Jersey Network. And you can find this actual video on YouTube today. It's titled Mother Leeds 13th Child. So I was like seven years old, and I remember watching it with my parents, and I was just like terrified. You know, I'm kid, I'm seven-year-old.

I'm just hearing all these stories. and stuff. So this, this, you know, these stories just always were being circulated around New Jersey, you know, like I said, you couldn't live in New Jersey and not know about it. So then we go fast forward to 1777. I saw that same documentary again in fifth grade. By this time, I'm 10 years old. I see it again. And I still get the same fearful feelings of it. Like, this, this thing is just creepy to me. And it was after that, I didn't see it on TV no more. and then I tried to find it on VHS because we went from film to BHS and I was trying to find it. I never could find it.

And it wasn't until like probably, what did you say, Steph? 2012, we started watching YouTube. I found the video and then that's when I introduced my son to it. He saw it. And Steph says to me one day after watching it several times, hey, dad, why don't we go down there? Why don't we just go check this place out? by this time it's 2017 and he he's like dad put it in your phone let's go down in so we type in these point whatever new jersey we get in the car and mike forgive me for interrupting you but

when you say you go down there was that the area that was in the documentaries is that what you're talking about yes exactly we said if we're going to go we're going to go to the genesis's ground or where the the story all circulates around because a lot of people people will tell you, oh, it's in the pine barrens. But like I just said earlier, the pine barrens stretch for miles and thousands and thousands of acres. So it can be, you know, just to say it's in the pine barrens, it's like a needle in a haystack. So we want to be specific.

So we said, let us go to Leeds Point, New Jersey, you know, since this is quote unquote the Leeds Devils. So we said, let's type in Leeds Point and let's go down there. So we get in the car, me, Stefan, and my other son, Jayden, who was 12 at the time. We all go down there on June 3, 2017. It's about 2.30 in the afternoon, clear, bright, sunny day. You know, we should have been at the beach, but instead, we're out in the back of Lee's point. You know, we're just out here just looking around, trying to get a feel for the place.

We wasn't expecting anything. So we get to this clearing on Oyster Creek Road. It's like a little dirt clearing where you can pull off the main road off to the side. So we pull off there. We get out the car. We walk over. We see the skyline of Manicester. city. And the first thing I said was, wow, they looked just like the 1974 documentary that,

you know, aired on NJN. So it was like, okay, this is cool. At that point, Wes, I was ready to leave. I was like, okay, you know what? I see what I need to see us. Quiet, buddy, really not to see out here. I said, let's leave. So we about to get in the car with my son, Stefan, says, dad, let's go down to the end of the road and she was down there. That's all right, whatever. So we go down to the end of the road, the Oyster Creek Road. At the end of Oyster Creek Road, there's a restaurant bar and grill called the Boise Creek Bar, Restaurant and Grill. So we seen that, but it was closed. And I was like, oh, okay, whatever.

We got a little restaurant down here. Okay. So we turned around. And West, when we turned around, it was from that point when the weird stuff started happening. So we headed back out, driving down Ocean Creek Road. I'm doing like 35, 40 miles per hour. I'm looking out to my left. I see the sunlight casting on the tree line.

So I'm just looking. All of a sudden, it looked like the shading of the sunlight casting on the tree line took the shape of what looked like a sand-colored khaki camel. And I'm like, what is that? I'm like, but I'm passing. I'm driving and the trees and branches and brush is breaking up my vision. Like, it's passing. So I'm seeing it. but it's kind of like hard.

So I'm like, and my son's like, Dad, what are you looking? I said, I see something. I see something. So we get back to that same clearing where we had pulled off the first time when we got there. So we get out the car. We walk over. There's like a spacing where you can look out and see the style of Atlantic City.

Like I said, we looked out and we seen a small patch of land. And what we saw, Wes, my first take was, oh, somebody's horse got up. That's what I'm thinking. And my son was like, Dad, I can't see it. I was like, look over my finger. And when he looked over my finger,

he saw it. And I'm like, he says to me, Dad, we're in the middle of a marsh. There's no horses and farms around here. And I'm thinking like, I know that ain't what I think it is. And it was just, we was just perplexed. Yeah, looking out of course.

the marsh and seeing it, it looked like a horse, but you could tell that it was a mutation of a few different things. And we're talking about 150 to maybe 200 yards. And this creature appeared as a mix of a horse, mixed with some type of dragon, and its body shape was like that almost of a hyena. The back had a slope to it,

And it had a long tail. And the tail at the end of this thing was split like it was in two. And I'm looking at him saying, Dad, this isn't a farm. We're a mile outside Atlantic City looking at the bay. What is that? And when we initially stopped West to look and see it, there was nothing there. It was nothing dead. Exactly.

It wasn't there. And then in a time span of driving to the restaurant, maybe 30 seconds in total, he looks to his left and he's saying there's a camel out there. And I'm not making sense. I'm thinking he's joking. I'm thinking, you know, he's making fun because we're in the area. And we pull over, West, and there it was walking back towards the woods. It never advanced in motion, which led us to believe. this creature or devil is spiritual.

Yes, because it never advanced. You've seen it moving. It was moving, but I'm expecting it to go over this little hill and disappear out of sight. And I'm watching it and it's moving, but it's not going anywhere. And it almost had like a watery glassy, like almost like on a hot summer day. Like a mirage type. And it was just, we was just perplexed. We was like, what is that?

And I remember there was a point where my son put his hand over in his mouth. He went down on his knees. He was like, Dad, that can't be a person or this Jersey devil thing that people have been saying. We was just, we didn't know what the thing. Bewilder. We was just bewildered. And my other son, Jaden, he was like, Dad, you think of some moose? I'm like, we're in New Jersey.

We're not in Washington or Montana with, I don't know, Alaska, with moose. I'm like, we were just, we didn't know what the thing. West. It was incredible. It was just, and we just like sitting there, just back and forth. Is this really happening? Is this what we think it is? And it was from that point that we just kept coming back. We just kept coming back because we had to, we had to confirm what we saw. And in the midst of the several, I don't know how many times we've been back, it's so many times. coming to the area now for six years. Six years.

And sometimes we go there west for absolutely nothing. But there has been times where we had paranormal things happen to us. Yeah, I've probably taken, you know, maybe a dozen reports on this Jersey Devil. Some people have reported that shimmer you guys are talking about. Let me ask you. So when you're out there, you're seeing this saying, does it appear to be? physical? From where we was, we saw something there.

It definitely wasn't ghost-like, but it wasn't, oh, God, it was solid, but because it didn't advance to move away out of sight, we came to the conclusion that this has to be some type of spirit, some type of paranormal manifestation. Was it moving in place? Yes, it was moving in place. It almost seemed ghost like, but it wasn't that transparent where you can see through it. So it did have some solidness to it. Yeah, very strange.

So when you guys are watching it, did it eventually vanish or what happened to it? It pretty much stayed there the whole time. You know, I tried to like film it, but I couldn't because my phone was moving around. I did take a picture of it on my old note nine, but I dropped that phone some water, and I never could get that picture. But we did capture a picture of it a year later on October. What was that?

October 24th or 6th of 2018? We actually have a picture of it morphed in or morphing out. I have three photos like a collage, and you can see it coming into view. And I would gladly send that to you with no problem. Yeah, please do. I don't have all the pictures, but I do have some of them, and I'll post them underneath this episode.

Before we get into this other incident where you guys saw it again, Mike, you'd mentioned there was weird paranormal things going on. What kind of things were you guys experiencing while out there? Well, that day, when that particular day, after seeing that, we also heard a voice off the side. of our car where we was parked in that clearing. This is when we was about to leave. We was about to leave, but we're still looking out there.

We're looking. And while we're looking, we hear a voice from the passenger side of the car. You hear a heavy voice man says birthing. And my son was like, dad, is that your phone? My youngest son, he's like, he's like, dad, is that your phone? I was like, no. Stefan says, dad, that was a voice. And I was just like saying to myself, we got to get out of here.

Because at first, I thought it was a bullfrog. I said, that was probably a bullfrog. And my son was like, dad, a bullfrog don't make that type of sound. That was our first, you know, paranormal, you know, activity that we had. The second time was when we went down in, what was that, December, 2018? We went down in December. Now, we went down in the evening, West. We went down because we wanted to go down there before the blue hour, just before it, like,

not quite dark, but that bluish look, you know, gets like almost, I don't know, twilight time, I guess that's what that's called. So we went down and we said, we're going to take some jackets because it's December, so it's going to be cold. We probably get out in that open mars, it's windy.

So we get down there. You know, the sun is pretty much not all the way down, but going down and starting to get dark and bluish, hazy looking. Steph says he saw it. Yeah, when we, I went down there in December of 2018. I was seeing something, and again, it was around the twilight time, and it looked like a big black horse out there.

And, you know, the color couldn't really tell because it was dark, so it appeared black. And I'm looking out there, and as I'm trying to tell him that I see it, something strange happened. My eyes began to just viciously water to the point where I'm rubbing, at them uncontrollably. And what kind of scared me was when I was trying to call my

dad and we're only about maybe 10 feet apart and he says, Steph, I can't hear you. And I kind of panicked for a second because I knew we had to have been under some kind of attack because West, this was December

and we had jackets and when I say it was so hot when we got out of the vehicle. Yeah, that stuff saw it happen. It made no sense that in December were taking off jackets from this unnatural heat. It just got warm. It went from like, we figured it was like in the 40s, you know, low 40s. It went easy to like to 70s.

And it was crazy. And it was all happening at the same time while he's like rubbing his eyes, you know, he's like, dad, I can't see. I can't see because I was trying to see what he was seeing. And when he was talking, I was like, Steph, I can't hear you. It felt like my ears were clobbed. When you first come out of the pool of water and you get water in your ears, you get that clog, like that clog water feeling in your ears.

That's what it sounded like. And he wasn't too far from me. And then when he looked up the street, then you tell him what you saw. And I'll tell him what I saw. It was for West, maybe a half a second to a second at the most. I saw what I thought was a deer. about to come out of the brush off the side of Boister Creek Road. But as soon as I made eye contact with it, it quickly jolted its head and neck back into the brush.

I pointed and said, there it is. And I thought that this was a large deer coming up the side of the street advancing towards me. And what made me nervous about this was, I don't know a wild deer that's going to do that and it seemed very predatory. And I'm trying to tell my dad, hey, it's coming up the street. It's coming up the street. There it is. You know, it's walking.

And he's seeing something completely different, which made me think, well, there's got to be more than one entity. Yeah, because what he saw, West, I didn't see. And what I saw, he didn't see. Like he's saying, dad, dear, it is. And I'm looking. I'm looking at where he's pointing. He's pointed up at like a bend in the street.

And I'm looking and I'm like trying to see what he's seeing. Now what I saw was at a tree. There was a tree that I figured the branches start at least eight, nine feet and then go up from there. And in the midst of the branches was a solid black figure. But it was only from mid chest to mid head. And it had like cow ears that went out to the side. And I'm looking and I'm like, what is that? And it was solid black, pitch black.

I didn't see no legs, anything attached to the ground. It was just this body that I've seen. Like I said, mid-chest, about mid-head in the branches of the trees. So the branches were moving. And when the one branch went up, it took his head and came around forward. That's when I said, let's get out of here. Let's go. we go back to my car, we jump in the car, I hit the lights and for like a microsecond,

I see what looks like cat eyes, like flashlights, like when you hit like a cat eye with flashlights or any animal, you know, their eyes reflected, gone, phew, gone. At first I thought it was, you know, maybe my headlights hit the reflectors on a pole, but it didn't come from a pole. It was in the tree where I saw the solid black image. and we got out of it. We horteled out there. And that was the second or third time.

We just had some strange things happened to us in that area. And we say that to this day, that place is extremely haunted with paranormal activity, spirits, or some sort of energy. You can feel it. I mean, we went down there, the pressure, the compression, it was like dead silence where it, almost like someone had their fingers in your ear, like no wind.

Just, it's a, it's a creepy place. It's a creepy place, Wes. Yeah, the symptoms you guys are describing, Stefan, you know, of not being able to see your eyes are watering. And Mike, you know, the hearing almost like you're underwater, trying to understand what someone's saying. I've heard that before. A lot of it's in poltergeist encounters and in haunting.

demonic, that sort of thing. I've heard that from other eyewitnesses. And, you know, what's strange is in a lot of, like, haunted situations, and I'm not by no means, am I speaking on authority on this? But, you know, I've always heard it gets cold. What's weird in your guys' situation is it got hot. And, you know, New Jersey is, you know, 40 degrees is nothing for people there. But New Jersey has another, you know, level of cold to it. It kind of has a bite to it if you're not from there. I can't even imagine taking your coat off while you guys are out there. It's very strange.

Do you guys continue to go back and does anything else happen? We continue to go back and we just like, just strange things have happened where when other people have went, they had things happen to them. One time we went, we was walking down this road that's called Scottsland Road. This road is super, super creepy. It just, you just get a vibe. You go down this road. It's actually in the Edwin v. Forsype Wildlife Refuge.

It's really right off Oyster Creek Road. And, you know, we just would go down and walk down the road and just, you know, just poking around looking. He claims that he heard a screech one day. And where it came from, it came from what's, What side of that road is? The opposite side of Scott's Landon Road is a road called Hammock Road. Hammock Road that's heavily, heavily wooded, that if you used to go in there and you go about a couple hundred yards, you might get lost and might not come out. And we heard this faint scream from there.

And then also that same day to the right side of me on the Oyster Creek Road side was this, I don't know, orange ball, like a light. And I kept saying to my sassist up, what is that light? And it was like off in the distance, like an orb in the woods. In the woods. So, and I know the sun was out, but I'm like, what is the sun shining on that? This, like, orangeish, yellowish glowing light is like off in the distance through the trees. And it's almost like it was moving because I kept noticing it. And to that, to this day, I don't know what that was.

was. And I heard that with Sasquash that sometimes you see like an orb or I don't know, but they said it was blue, but this one was like an amber, amber yellows. Yeah, the lights in the woods, they're very common. People see them. Sometimes they'll see them with creatures like Sasquatch or I would say entities like Dogman. You'll find him in ghost encounters. Sometimes people just see these weird lights in the woods and that's it. It's very strange. And it's strange that you guys saw the lights as well. This area that you guys are going to, how far away from the pine barrens is this? From Leeds point, well, like I say, Lees Point, the way that the pine barons runs, the pine barons is so large, it runs through several

communities, neighborhoods and towns. So Leeds Point, from where we live, is about 40 miles. And it's about roughly eight miles from maybe eight to four miles from Atlantic City, give a take. And we even had accounts with other friends who went to where we had our encounters and they had paranormal things happen to them. We have photos of people being scratched by things. I mean, we had a friend who went to the actual location off the back of Scottsland Road where we still, you know,

walked down that creepy road, I was telling you about. We had a friend who went in there with a Bible, went up into the woods with a Bible, saying the Lord's Prayer. They say they got about 30, 40 feet up in the woods and they felt like something punched them in the stomach.

And when they came out, they had these three scratch marks on their farm. I have the picture. I can send that to you. We've had people come out to the area with us and they asked us about where we saw the creature and we point to the spot and west we've had two different people with two different drones fly to that same spot and both drones glitched out and i know typically sometimes paranormal forces tend to concentrate in an area so say if for example

someone died in the basement and the whole house is haunted but typically the basement would be the the most haunted because that's where the energy is. And what's just strange is that there's no obstruction over top for the drone to run into interference. There's no wires for the drone to be. Yeah. There's nothing around. It's an open marsh area.

And we're trying to fly it to this small patch of overgrowth where the creature was walking. And it refuses to film that spot. It just gritches out. They start losing power. And we don't, we don't understand it. Like, one thing we can attribute is to there is paranormal activity in this particular area of East Point, New Jersey. Yeah, that's very odd that the drone won't film that area. You'll hear a lot of paranormal investigators talking about equipment failure.

And, you know, when these things are around, ghost and, you know, entities, that sort of thing. A lot of their equipment will shut off. Batteries will die. a lot of that goes on. And that is strange that you guys are experiencing some of that. You know, beyond the Jersey Devil, is there another part of the history to this area? Did anything else happen? In Leeds point, I haven't heard anything else other than the Jersey Devil.

However, I'm aware that it was a big Quaker place. So it was really religious. so there's probably a lot of different things. Like I know that they said the Jersey Devil could be seen with some sea captain at times. And what's ironic about that is that area was home to sea captains. And I forget the Pirates name that people alleged to have seen the Jersey Devil in the marsh with a captain or a pirate. And I didn't ever put two and two together until we looked up the records of the townspeople and saw, that, yeah, these people were fishermen.

And the people who lived in the area in the 1700s, they fished off the land. And I would imagine that prior to the Jersey Devil, there could have been other stuff, but nothing really definitive. I think that would probably be the most popular thing in that area. Yeah. Also, because of this legend of the Jersey Devil,

we have come across people who kind of pay homage to it by doing satanic practices. Now, this was told to us from some locals. I won't name people who those people are to protect their privacy. But they told us that sometimes people come down there and they practice Satanism because we wander through these woods and we have found bones and carcasses of animals. And some people say, oh, that's just, you know, animals, eating other animals. but I was driving down on East Point Road after, you know, sighting the Jersey Dover, I just kept coming back, just coming back.

So I'm with my wife one day and we driving. And I see this deer laying on the side of the road. I thought, man, somebody hit a deer. As I get closer, the deer has no head. Now, most people say, well, I got hit by a car and it's, it just, you know, his head got taken off. No, this deer was not like, broken up or mutilated real bad by the car and just broken in pieces.

It looked like someone clearly took his head off, not at the base of the neck, clearly up at the head. The head was completely severed and the rear back leg was moved, removed. And when I told this to one of the locals, that's when the person said to me, well, you know people come down here and they practice safety. this and that kind of spooked me out. You know, and I've told the story to many people. They say, well, you know, people, they probably just collect the head.

I'm like, why would you want to just collect the head of a deer? Like, yeah, that doesn't know. I can understand if you, if you cut it at the neck and you, you know, you put it up on a plaque and, you know, take it to a taxidum and they stuff it. I've seen that as a kid growing up in sportsmen shops and stuff like that. But this wasn't cut at the base of the neck. It was just the head. The neck was still attached. Just the head was gone, and I believe the left hind rear leg was removed.

And there was no blood on the ground. No blood. And Wes, I can see that picture. Everything that I can tell you, I can verify it with picture proof. Yeah, I'd love to check out everything you guys have. And I'll post what I have underneath this episode. And if you guys will send me everything else, I'll post it on a blog. Let me ask you, Mike, you know, going back to your brother,

and his friend when they saw the creature, he made the comment, I'm going to ride that thing, thinking it was a horse. When you guys saw it, how big do you think it was? When we saw it, it seemed tiny, West. It didn't seem like I know people said, it was eight feet tall when I saw it or 10 feet tall. It looked at tiny to us. It couldn't have been no more. From where we were standing 150 yards away, it appeared maybe a little taller than a fire hydrant. It didn't. It wasn't eight, nine, ten feet tall. But what was strange was, what is this horse like, whatever, little wildebeest,

Komodo dragon thing walking out in the middle of the marsh on a bright, clear, sunny day? It was just mind-blower. It was completely mind-blower. Yeah, I can't imagine. You know, several years ago, I interviewed a guy. I can't remember where he was at, but he saw this. creature in a tree and he shot it. And when he shot it, he was kind of describing what he had seen or what, you know, what it was. And I remember telling him, I was like, you know, that sounds like

the, a lot like the Jersey Devil. And he goes, really, and he didn't know what that was. He goes, I thought it was Baphomet. And when you look up Baphomet and the Jersey Devil, there's a lot of similarities. Exactly. Yes. That's why we've always thought, West, that this has to be paranormal. Because if you just think about the story, and I'm not knocking it by any means, but for something to come from a person, a human, and transform into such a creature, biologically, how is it survival?

And off of what? What is its diet? Like, that can't be anything but some sort of spirit. I can't see someone not wanting their child. And this is according to the story, she didn't want her child and it transformed into this algorithm of animals and survives. And we've had, like you say, it gets pretty cold out here in New Jersey. So where is this thing going?

And I mean, with so much, you know, in the Pine Barrens, there's also areas of New Jersey that are very built up. So if it's got a good hiding spot, man, then he's got the best spot in the world. It just doesn't make sense. And I just think, and I'm with you on that step, that this has to be proud of normal because human DNA just don't support turning into multiple animals, you know, because it's been described as have a head of a horse, a body of a dog, wings, leathery wings of a bat, hooves of a horse, and just all of these mixture of animals. And I'm thinking that's not humanly possible for a human to transform into these mixture of animals. I mean, but that doesn't dismiss that people have been seeing or having these sightings over the past 288 years, close to 300 years. People are seeing something, but we believe it's paranormal. That is why it hasn't never been captured.

And I think people are just chasing. Ghost. Yeah, and there, isn't there a story that about someone shot it? I don't know who it was. Was it Bonaparte? Bonaparte might have. He tried to shoot it with a cannonball. And I don't know anything that's going to just knock a cannonball down. Like, oh, that was nothing. The story

was that he shot it with a cannon, shot out with a cannonball, and it went through him. Oh, it went through the creature? It went through the creature. He kept flying. Well, then that supports the idea of something paranormal. You know, if you hit any animal, even with a 22. It's going to do damage, just let alone a cannonball. A cannonball, yeah, really. So. Yeah, I'm sure Mrs. Leeds' story was exaggerated, but there's always a kernel of truth to some of that stuff. And one thing you can't deny is even people today are seeing it. Before we came on the air,

I was telling you guys about the gentleman I spoke to. He's not from New Jersey, but he was visiting. And he saw it. And it was outside of his window. He was on the same. second story and his window leads right out to the roof. He was kind of explaining to me how the house is set up and he heard what he thought was a horse on his roof and he thought, how in the world did a horse get up there? And when he looked out, he saw this creature. And it wasn't very big, you know, two, three feet tall, you know, not nothing you could ride. But I mean, it was this weird entity. And he didn't know what the Jersey devil was. He'd never heard of such a thing. And, you know, one thing I had asked him was, was it like a spirit? And he goes, no, it was

very physical. It seemed to be there. I couldn't see through it. It's definitely a mystery. Up until this point, do you guys still go out there? Yeah, yeah, we still go out there from time to time. And it's like we can't leave it alone, West. What we saw, it just changed our lives, where we just, like, we go back and we know what we saw. And I believe, you know, we've been called everything. You guys are crazy. Everything. Everything.

Everything under the sun, exactly. But all I can say to those who don't believe us, you weren't there. And not only that, we have picture evidence. We got picture evidence. And I mean, I have, when I send you this picture, you can clearly see it. And, and, you know, people could, I've been told, well, how do we know if you didn't Photoshop it or insert us something into the photo?

I'm not computer savvy at all. I'm lucky to get on the Zoom with you, let alone stage a hoax. I mean, that's not my thing. I don't have to do that. I have no reason to do that. You know, we had a profile in an experience, and it's just we can't forget about it.

And I think we're going to be going there for the rest of our lives because we, seen something, we believe that was from another dimension or, you know, something. And it's, it's just, I can't even find the words to say. When you see things that aren't supposed to exist, it makes you question everything. Yes. Yeah, you guys aren't the first ones to see it for sure. I know you guys had talked about it being spiritual, but do you think it's more demonic and evil? I would say this thing is demonic. And the only reason I'm going with that, Wes, is because this thing clearly doesn't have the intention to come and say hello.

I don't think it wants to have a cup of coffee. I think this thing could very well be dangerous. I've heard that there have been attacks, and it was blamed on the Jersey Devil. So I'm rocking with the demon, West. That has to be something supernatural from a. another realm or space and time because as it appeared to us, it was very evident this thing is anything but natural. What about you, Mike?

What are your thoughts? I think what I think, I mean, people have been seeing something. People are seeing something. It's been around, it has been around 288, like I say, almost 300 years. Do I think it's demonic? I think there are good spirits and I think there are benevolent spirits. And I believe that what we captured with our, you know, phones and stuff, taking pictures where we, we have a picture of the creature. But also in the creature, I mean, also in the picture, we have a picture of a face of a crying shot.

In this same picture where the creature is appearing, there's almost like a ghost face of a child. And I think that what this benevolent creature is is making people believe one thing. And the spirit of that child who was accused of transforming into that is sort of attaching itself to this deceased spirit, this child. There's a battle of good and evil going on. I mean, that is what our evidence has shown us through our pictures that we captured that. Like I say, I'm going to send all of that to you. You can do your own analysis too. Yeah, it's a benevolent spirit.

The one that's posing as a creature is somewhat demonic, but I think there's more than just a demonic spirit. I think there's another spirit, which I think is the spirit of the child, the 13th child, that is saying, hey, I'm not this. This is who I am. Like it's some sort of mockery to the child. Like it's some sort of almost like saying, it was like when you look at the pictures, West, the kid is crying and the creature is, I guess, to the child's right or left, you know,

depending on if you were standing out there or not. And he's crying. And what's weird is his face appears much larger than the image of the creature. And it's almost like he's saying that is not me. I am not this monster. Everyone forgets about this child. This child was a person. And to believe that this child was deemed to be a mixture of all of these different creatures into one,

I think that is just a horrible, horrible way to be remembered as. Like, you know, I mean, who wants to be remembered as a demon that's roaming around the pine barrens of New Jersey? and still here to this day. I mean, I think we all get caught up in the story, the monster. And I get it. It's a great campfire story. I get it. But I think people lose sight of this was a person.

And this was, you know, this type of fate was deemed to this child because of a mother who just didn't want to have another child. That's just those sit right with me. So what people are seeing, I believe, is a paranormal manifestation of a benevolent creature making people believe this is the child. This is who I am. But our evidence that I'm going to share with you says something different. So I'm kind of like split. Yeah, it is hard to say.

I'm curious, Mike, your brother, the one he told the account about in the very beginning, the one who was chased. How does he feel about you guys going down there and looking for this saying? To this very day, my brother will not go near Lee's point. Me and my son step, you know, come on, man, come with us, come with us. Just come. He will not come nowhere.

He said, I can't. I can't. So whatever he saw at 12 years old, it traumatized. It really did because I had this picture of someone who made like a, a figurine of the Jersey devil. And I showed it to my brother one day we was talking about. I said, is this what it looked like? Wes, when I say he almost knocked my phone out my hand,

like he hit my phone like, whoa, whoa. And it traumatized him. My brother's pretty big guy, you know what I mean? So and to this day, he refuses. He's like, I cannot. He said, you couldn't give me a million dollars with him. He said, I won't go. No.

He says, I never want to see that thing again. So to him, it was real. Yeah, I feel for your brother, Mike. My heart goes out to him. He must have been absolutely terrified in that moment. And it's obviously stuck with him his whole life. Let me ask you, when you guys go out to this place and you come home, has there been anything odd that's happened at the house?

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Who do you have a question for? Well, you want to ask that for me. Yeah, well, Whoever wants to start, I'd love to hear it. Wes, I had scratches on my stairs. I have a set of stairs.

I live in an upstairs apartment and the steps that are out front are laminated. So for something to scratch the surface, that's going to take a pretty good amount of pressure to actually break anything or at least scratch it. And I came out one time to let my dog out down the stairs and these had to have been fresh, Wes, because you could still. feel the indent from the markings. And I noticed that it was three claw marks. They were in threes. It was like something came to the stairs, scratched the stairs, and left.

But prior to those scratches, one winter, I had a strange print in my yard. And it was by a small, I think it's a holly tree in my yard. And it was a single print. And for the life of me, I couldn't figure out, well, why aren't there other prints? So I started thinking, did this thing land in my yard and fly off? Where are the other tracks? And go ahead, Dad.

I'll let you. Well, all of this stuff occurred after we had our several visits at least point. That's what's crazy. It's like a Sunday morning. I get up at 9, 10 o'clock, going in the kitchen and make my family some breakfast. So I'm cooking bacon, and you know, bacon tends to smoke up the house. So I said, let me open up my window, let someone smoke out in the kitchen. So I opened up the window.

And I look outside, just see the grass, didn't see anything. So I just let the smoke go out. So I finished making breakfast and we eat, we clean up afterwards. So I said, let me just, that's an air. And it's a nice day. And I open up my living room window. Now, when I opened up the window the first time, I didn't see nothing. The second time after breakfast, I opened up my little window.

I see these two hoofs marks outside my window. And I'm like, what the hell? So I go outside. What was profound about these footprints? They were like, I don't know, four feet apart from each other. And they looked like they were fresh made because the mud was still wet, like something heavy. And it was just two of them. And they were side by side.

And they weren't close together. Like I said, it was about four feet apart. I have the video and I have, I have pictures that I took of that. I'm going to send that to you. And I was just like, I'm like, I know this is, it's got to be an explanation for this. What is this? There was no other tracks. And there was no other tracks but those.

And Stefan, did the tracks that you saw at your place, was it the same as what your dad's saw at his place? No. No. His tracks were different from mine. Mine were almost like a circular hoof, like a, they were like rounded almost. The track in my yard had a split like a hoof. And it looked like maybe I don't know something behind it, like supporting the weight.

But it was a single print and it was the size of my hand for reference. And I'm not a very large guy, but I'm not a small guy either. just give or take a six inch track wide maybe. Yeah, I see you guys holding up the pictures on Zoom and Stefan, and that is weird that one track. It just kind of looks like it appeared out of nowhere. And I'm looking at yours, Mike, and that is strange to the two tracks.

And it looks like it's deep. Like it's really, you know, whatever it was, it was heavy. It's weird only finding two tracks. I had no idea what that was. And if you see my hand, you can see the size of it. You can see it, and it broke the ground, and you can see the wet mud. Yeah, it looks like a lot of weight on that track, like it was heavy. A lot of weight.

And like I said, everything that we told you from the headless deer and everything that I've told you, I have picture proof verifiable. That's the hell is dear. Oh, yeah. It looks like it was ripped off. That wasn't cut off. We're over Zoom for the audience. I know it doesn't really help them.

We're all looking at pictures on an audio show. But if you guys will send me everything, I'll definitely post it. I want to ask you, you know, when you talk to a lot of these paranormal investigators, and they'll go out and investigate a home, A lot of times I've asked them, have you ever had anything come home with you? Most of the time, the answer is yes. Does it concern you guys going out and looking for this saying? And now all of this weird stuff is happening at your homes?

It's a little concerning, Wes. I mean, I think the biggest fear that I have is this thing has the advantage of spirit and I don't. So this thing can appear anywhere at any time. And it is a little intimidating when something follows you home, especially something you can't see. I think what gives us the bravery is the fact that we do go during the day. It's not like we're camping out at night. I would never, I would never recommend anyone to do it

because it wouldn't be a good night for you. I just, I think, Wes, a lot of times that when people, like you said, And it was perfectly said how you said it, how people go to these paranormal locations and bring home some energy. And I don't think me and my dad went there intentionally to bring anything home. I think that we kind of stumbled upon something, brought light to it, and we may have a small attachment to something because we are bringing truth to the subject. I think that's what happened to us. Something did follow us home. I haven't had anything recently happened. Things have been pretty okay. I do dream about Leads Point a lot. I don't know if that's kind of just from the experience of what happened or if it's something otherworldly trying to

tell me something about the story. But I've been dreaming about that place for six years, Wes, And it just changed me forever. Yeah, moments in time like this will definitely change you for sure. Beyond curiosity, what do you guys hoping to accomplish? I think, wow, I think we just want to tell our story. We want to bring truth and clarity because there's a lot of, everyone has a story. And I just think that sometimes I almost feel like I know I'm not pat myself. on the back or boosting myself up, but I almost feel like we've been chosen to bring light

to what this story and this legend is really about. And I believe that's one of the reasons why we have all of the, you know, the picture of evidence that we have. Like my son said, we stumbled in this. We didn't set out to find anything. I mean, we really went on a humbug just out of curiosity and we got far more than what we could ever imagine, you know. So to a accomplish, I think I just, we just want to just bring to light our, you know, encounter and bring the truth out about what we think this is really, what this is really about. That's what I think we're in this for. Yeah, and I really appreciate that answer.

And I respect your guys' view on it. And I get where you guys are coming from. You guys have way more balls than I do. I'd have been like after that first, after that first experience, I've been like, I'm done, fellas. It's just you guys go have fun, tell me what happens afterwards, but you guys keep going back. And to be fair, I mean, there is a long history, and a lot of people have come forward who've seen this thing. And so whatever it is, people are seeing it. You know, and it's weird you saw the lights too.

You know, the lights are often seen encrypted encounters. And I can't quite figure out what those lights are or why they're showing up. up. It's strange. It's a mystery. You know, one thing I wanted to ask you guys, and maybe I shouldn't say this, I'm not saying I recommend this, but have you guys thought about provoking it with, you know, call blasting? Let's say in this situation, a child crying. Well, Wes, to answer that question, the only thing I ever did, one time to provoke it and it was the day that we saw it, I tried to mimic the screen that it's supposed to make. And when I did, my dad and my little brother said it stopped in its tracks

and it just turned its head maybe slight left and slight right and it just kept pressing on it. That was the only provoking thing I've ever did to it and that could account for the scratch I don't know what we did West Fort to follow us home. I've never had anything strange happened inside. Everything was always outside of my house. Yeah, same here. Nothing ever happened inside. It always happened outside.

You know, like I said, those hook marks in the back of my house is probably like one of the weird things that happened to me outside of that area where I feel like it followed us. And it was strange. It kind of happened around the same time he got the scratches. I got the hoof friends, you know. So, yeah, it kind of something could have attached to us by us going down there, snooping around and looking and everything. So, yeah.

Yeah, it would concern me, you know, if you think something followed you home and you guys are finding these weird prints. I mean, I'm sitting here looking at it on Zoom. and when you guys send it over, I'll post it either underneath this episode or on the blog, but those tracks look huge. I'm not a huge person. I'm 511, 190 pounds. My dad is taller than me, and he's bigger than me. And this thing's hands or claws, foot, whatever it is, was huge.

Was either my hand size or bigger, at least five to six inches and wider. It was huge. It was a big wide print. and it was singular, like I said, by a tree in my yard. And I'm thinking, no, that's not a deer. How did a deer get all the way here? And how did it leave a single track? Fat socks.

The deer has four legs. A deer's got four legs. This thing has a single print in the slow. I'm trying to, West, I was trying to look around the yard. And I'm like, did it land somewhere else? There was one single print. So whatever it was landed. And I can only imagine, as I said earlier, it flew or disappeared, dissipated.

This is a spirit, West. This is anything but an animal. And I don't know an animal that can find where two guys live 40 miles away. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. These cryptid things are, they're mysterious. They're just mysterious.

And there's more that we don't know than we think we do know in this world. I agree. In other worlds, other dimensions. We don't know what's happening there. Yeah, I agree with you. It's definitely a mystery, and there is a ton that we don't know. And, you know, I really appreciate you guys coming on. You know, I really enjoyed chatting with you step on and Mike.

And you guys be careful out there. Please be careful out there because we don't know. But thank you guys again for coming on. Man, we enjoy chat with you. We just glad you took the time out. I know your schedule is busy, you know. You got a lot going on. We just thank you for, you know, giving us the opportunity to share our story.

And thank you so much, Wes. We really appreciate you. Thank you so much. Thanks a million, Wes. I'm a huge fan of your show. You're doing great work, brother. Please keep it up. Yes.

Keep it going. Don't stop, man. Never stop. Thanks for the kind of words, guys. And that's it for tonight. Everyone, remember, if you've had an encounter, shoot me an email. My email address is Wes at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. And if you get a chance, check out Sasquatch Chronicles.com, you can become a member and get additional shows. Until next time,

everyone.