Sasquatch Chronicles - SCEP:238 Strange lights and strange creatures

Episode Date: July 25, 2016

I just returned from Beachfoot and I am putting together the show. I had the opportunity to interview Adam Davies. Adam Davies is one of the world's foremost Cryptozoologists. He's traveled the world in search of mystery animals. Adam spent a lot of time looking for the Chinese Yeren, Russian Almasty, America's Sasquatch and many other cryptids. He will be sharing with us evidence that he has come across and what witnesses have reported seeing. The International Bigfoot Conference is on September 2,3,4 in Kennewick, Washington. Here is a list of speakers. I will be attending the conference, and hope to see you guys and gals there. Check out their website. 

Five, five, four, four, three, three, two, one. One. When I had come down this hill, I had seen this creature cross the road. They would have ripped my locked door from my truck, extracted me from my vehicle, and no one of the damn thing I could have done about it. This thing I got to notice in its eyes. Its eyes was real, real evil, real sinister looking.

You know, the look it was given me. What, what are you're pushing? Here you go. Get somebody out here. What's going on now, sir? That's son of a bitch is about 60 foot. Sir? Yes, I'm looking right at him.

Sasquatch Chronicle. Place where people share their accounts. Let's start the show. Welcome to the show, everyone. Thanks for being here tonight. Got a great show planned for you tonight. I'm here at Beachfoot. Beachfoot is actually a pretty cool event.

It's invite only, and I wish it was they could open it up to everyone because it is such a cool event. A lot of times when you go to conferences, you only get a few moments to talk with the speaker, you go listen to presentations, and then that's pretty much it. Beachfoot is a little bit different. All of the researchers come together, and you still, there's a lot of presentations, so it's hard to kind of pin someone down for an interview. In between the presentations and at night, you get to sit around campfire and talk with everyone. I know last night, gosh, it was so cool sitting around the campfire, people talking about there in camps, counters talking about, even outside of Bigfoot.

You just get to learn about the people in the field. It's such a cool event because everyone that comes, Todd Nice does a good job at selecting people come. There's no egos. You know, everyone's cool. And you really get to learn more than just about someone's research. You get to learn about the person. And I love it. It's a relaxing time.

I wish I would have been able to get more interviews. because this is one of the last days at Beachfoot. Saw Adam Davies always wanted to interview him, and so he was willing to sit down and interview. So that will be coming up here in a moment. I also want to talk about the International Bigfoot Conference. I was made aware of that. That's going to be in September, I believe, in Kennewick.

When I get back home, I will post it up to the website, all the information about the International Bigfoot Conference coming up. But let's jump to Adam Davies. I'm sitting here with Adam Davies. It's a great honor to have you on the show, sir. Thank you very much, Wes. It's great to be here. You're like the Indiana Jones of the cryptic world.

You're always going to different countries. You're looking into things. And what I like about you is you will actually take what eyewitnesses say and then go look into it. And you're never critical of eyewitnesses. No matter what country you're in, you're never critical of eyewitnesses. You're willing to go look. As far as Sasquatch goes, what got you into Sasquatch? I was making a film with Jeff Weldram called China's Wildman.

I always wanted to do that, and I know we'll touch on it later, but in synopsis I was there, and I'd always been a bit conscious of how I could add to the party, for once of a better word, with Bigfoot research, because I felt that in doing that, there was a very complex pattern. There was all sorts of different researchers, all across the US, all with different methodology.

And it wasn't like when I go to look for an unknown species in different areas, where I'll concentrate on a particular area, I'll look for the most credible eyewitnesses, and I'll focus in on that la cal. There were plenty of places in the US where I could do that. So it was really a question of where to begin. But I sat down with Jeff in a hotel room in Beijing, and I said, well, let's talk about Bigfoot, yeah? He's a Bigfoot guy.

Let's talk about that. And so he went through the Patterson Gimlin film And he showed me a number of things on it And we all know about the Patterson Gimlin film So I won't wax on too much about it But he showed me about the specific gait The detail, the musculature And why he felt that in synopsis, it was genuine.

So I was intrigued by that But I went away and did other things And it wasn't until 2012 When I made contact with Laurie Laurie Simmons About her research area That I decided to take the plunge and do some Bigfoot research and again in synopsis we got a photograph

there was a lot of evidence knocking, growling, whatever else but we got a photograph where Laurie and I were by the Countfire of a white creature what seems to be white but it isn't white

it's just because of the camera looming over us now lots of people have said oh could it be a sleeping bag could it be me could it be out and there was all sorts of conjecture but basically for me

it was persuasive because I could see musculature, sort of V-shape in the back. Now, you know, I work out, but there's no way I've got a physique like that. Let me tell you, I know it's radio. But he's laughing people. He's laughing. So in... But what I did was I sent that to Brian Sykes, the world's leading geneticist. Now, Brian Sykes has done a number of unique pieces of research,

including the Iceman. He's talked about the European genetics and how it's been traced. He established the lineage of the Russian world family after the Russian Revolution. I don't need to go through his CV. It's amazing. But he was persuaded enough by that to investigate it further. And on that basis, he went out and did some big foot research with that. He actually paid for me. It's not in his book.

So things are important. I mentioned he paid for me to go out and do qualitative research with him. and Laurie into that area. So significant did he find that. It was kind of a world first for cryptozoology. So here you have a scientist, not just being part of an expedition, but actually funding it, yeah? So he went down and did that,

and he was reticent about his conclusion, I think it's fair to say. He did actually believe there was a big thought at the time, and then he sort of withdrew back from that and said, well, because I didn't, you know, this is me putting my view on his words, and I think it's important to say that, because I didn't find qualities of evidence, I can't say that it was a big foot. You know, it could have been a number of different variances.

So that, but that was a real tangible, significant event for me. And after that, what I decided to do was go to different areas and look at the different outcomes and habits of Bigfoot people. So the next time I went to the US, I went to Derek Randall's place, to the Olympic project, and I went to Matthew Johnson's Sewer site, and to the Sierra site with Justin Smeha. And the purpose of that was twofold. First of all, to see if I could gather scientific evidence for analysation. I was going to send samples back to Sykes. But secondly, to understand some of the methodology and different approaches of people, and how they

conducted themselves. So I went to the Olympic project, and I had an enormously good time with those guys. I've got a lot of respect to them, the methodology, and to Derek Randalls, who leads it, and they do an excellent job. And while I was there, I called out a big foot. And that was witnessed by a number of people, people I'd never met before. What do you mean you called out of it?

What happened was we were walking down a trail, and I saw a rock fall down this trail, and there seemed to be no, there was no wind or anything else, yeah. So I thought, well, that's unusual. It was almost like somebody was standing at the top of a screece like when I'd been mountaineering, and they send debris down because of their movement. So I stopped, and I made a call, a big foot call. And we got a big foot call back, yeah?

And I made a number of calls, and I moved gently down the path. And this was witnessed by people who were there, for example, Shelley Covey Montana, is it Tian. There were a few people there, and people I'd never met before. And I was calling to the thing, and it was calling back. And then we got a call from across the other side. of the La Calle. It was fascinating.

And we moved along, and what I did was, when I, when I behaved, I tried to become the role of the alpha male, so I'd move along, make the core, move along. And then I urinated in the same ways you can do with, with, when you're doing, to agitate apes in the wild,

and the thing went ballistic. You know, it was kicking off. And it was amazing. And I mean, it was a really good experience. experience. And afterwards, Shane Cawson had put down a voice recorder in the La Carte, and he got, and he played it on his radio show, what sounded like ape amulations. Now, you can't say with any certainty. I think it's important to say that. With any vocalisation, you can't say with any certainty. But it was significant for me. I was very pleased with what had happened there. So that was that. And then I moved on to Matthew Johnson's suicide. He's a habituator.

He very much believes in that methodology. And again, there was some evidence. There was certainly some evidence, in my view, of potential activity. And I also had this really weird, totally freaky. I experienced where I saw these strange creatures, for one of a better word, which was small, black with bright red eyes. And that was the most unusual. usual and actually unpleasant experience of my life and I've been there's pretty much

there are many places I've not been to look for cryptos but that was the single one where I thought that was enormously enormously strange and then after that I went on to Justin Smeha and spent some time in the sierras and tried to understand whether there was there was tangible veracity to his story about him shooting a big foot so I went to those three places. And I had a good time, certainly the Olympic project, and it was interesting going to the Sierra's.

I found no evidence there when I was in the Sierra's. Nothing happened of any consequence. But Johnson's sight, because of what I experienced, kept coming back to me in the sense that, and I took a lot of heat at the time, it was never my intention to talk about that at all, because there was nothing

to verify. You know, I said, well, this is a story. the audience and they may not know the story I know it but a lot of people may not know the story do you want to just and you can just give the cliff notes of what happened because I know you're mentioning it some people might go well what happened what's he talking

about so if you would just give the cliff notes of what yeah I mean so basically I'd gone to his area he says or said that there was big thoughts in his area he said he had a methodology which was 100% worked

and I said, well, I'll come and investigate it and have a look. And if we can get some scientific evidence, so if in other words we can get hair samples, that was what I was interested in. But I'd heard a grunt, which was very specific, and he wouldn't have known about this grunt, and I heard this grunt in the Cascades.

It was just a two-second thing. When I'd been out with Laurie Simmons, and I had heard it, and I heard it, and I heard in the plethora of recordings, there's all sorts of stuff he sends me, some of which I thought was more obscure, and unlikely than others at the time, you know, for example, this name, speaking the names of individuals and things like that.

But it was that too, and I wasn't really interested in that. It was the two-second grunt I'd heard, which I know I'd heard before, which I had probably associated with a big foot. And I heard it in amongst a plethora of recordings he had that persuaded me to go. So really in synopsis, I never saw a big foot at Matthew Johnson's, but I did hear bipedal locomotion, or what seemed to be bipedal locomotion,

in the surround of this solar area. It's basically a big circle and there's lots of vegetation around it and he has specific rules and protocols. And we heard that, never saw one, but we did see. There was, on the third night we were there, I saw a beam of light,

a straight beam of light on the pathway. And I said to John, what's that? And he said, I don't know, but it wasn't consisted with moonlight or other things. But we, then it started to crackle. There were lights, yeah, like blue, you know, like electric lights, blue and red, right, like. Yeah. And this mist form, this red glow.

And out of it popped these two creatures. And they were small, black, stockly built, red glowing eyes. And they were just mooching around the pathway at the first. But I was like, you know, to John, what the heck of those things? I have no one. He was like, I don't know. And we described them what we were seeing both of us to one another because we wanted independent verification of what we were seeing

because it was so strange. And then they weren't doing anything in particular. And then at one point, when I said to John, you know, I'm not going to go to bed with them. those damn things around, you know? There's no way. What the heck of those? And he said, he said, he turned to them at that point and he said, well, what are you going to do if, um, if we don't go to bed to these things? And then at that point, they charged up the pathway and they had this red, orangey glow and you could, I could, but the thing that I thought about it was you could see this,

the anger on this thing's face. It was like, oh, you know, I could see the anger on this thing. And I was like, that was the worst moment because I remember standing there watching these things and I'm going to fight it. I'm going to fight it, but at the end of the day, how do I fight this thing?

You know, I mean, this is how I'm going to die. This is it for me. And no one's going to know how I'm going to die. I died. I just thought, oh, this is just awful. So to just try and get a better look at them as we're going up,

we shine a flashlight, yeah? And then, boom, they're gone. It was like they were never there. So we stopped me. We waited and we were just talking about how crazy it was, what happened. Then this thing starts glowing again. And these damn things come out. And I'll talk about it another time, but we'll go through.

But in synopsis, they kept coming out. We kept shining these lights and they kept disappearing. And it happened for hours and hours and hours. Yeah, we could really see them. And it happened again on the second night. Yeah. Same thing. Nothing happened during the day, but the same thing.

There was never any big foot activity or potential big foot activity. whatever you want to call it when these things were around. They were, it was a solo thing. And, you know, I, but afterwards, when I came back, it troubled me. I mean, I was never going to talk about it. And it's public knowledge that Johnson talked about it in a, in his conference that he did. I didn't know he was going to talk about it. Neither John or I had any idea.

But he developed. a notion that they were guardians of the portal, yeah? Some thing. And I thought, well, I don't agree with that at all. There's no way that these things can be guardians of anything. He didn't see these things attacked John and I. He said they were bluff charging, well, they weren't. You know, I was there. I know what I'm talking about. They were not bluff charging anybody. They were going for us, and we had to repel them in some way. And we were fortunate that by accident, we did, yeah? I'm not claiming that I had a solution to that problem because I didn't. You know, I was just lucky, I think.

And also the points he makes, I think, about the idea that a species, or his view is that all Bigfoot, I think it's fair to say this is his view, are benevolent, certainly in that area and Gordon and everything else. And I have a real problem with that, because the idea that an entire species, especially a sentient one, is all going to be good. I just don't think it's possible. That would never be the case.

And it's easy to to analyze why that wouldn't be the case. So for example, even if you look at your dogs, you have grumpy dogs, you know, aggressive dogs, nice dogs, kind dogs, all of that. When you look at people, there are people who are more aggressive than others, people are gentle.

You know, I don't need to go on anymore. The point's made, I think. I agree with you. And, you know, I appreciate that you came out and talked about it because there's a lot of strange things that go on in the forest. And I, you know, I don't know that that's necessarily Bigfoot related. But before we actually went on air, we were talking about, I was telling you about the Vikings. And the Vikings had that lore of these gods in the forest with glowing red eyes.

And they leave food out for them. And they basically said, I don't get attacked. And that's what it made me think when you were telling that story. When I originally heard it, that's the first thing that came to my mind. But you've, I mean, you've searched the world. I mean, you've gone, I don't think there's a place on the planet you haven't been to looking for, you know, cryptid everything. When you're looking into what's the difference between like the United States, China, Russia, the view of Sasquatch, Bigfoot, urine, almonds. I mean, they have a name for it.

We're all talking about the same thing. But what is, is there anything that you found from country to country? that's different in the sense that like it's more accepted in one area than another like let's say like China for example the urine is it more accepted than in the United States with Sasquatch I think the

I think that with China and the yearn I think it's accepted it was gradually becoming more accepted I mean one of the things that interest me because I pitched Monster Quest to do that film and one of the things that interested me was that there had been stories about the Chinese urine going back for many centuries. So long before there were plastic bigfuts, yeah, all the people even heard of it.

BC, there were accounts being recorded, and you can see the pictures of a hairy man that lives in Hubei province. And also one of the things I thought as well was that there was serious academic research going on, or had been in the past by Zugaching from the University of Beijing. into the thing. So I was very interested in finding out what was going on there and I was glad I did because on the basis of that Jeff Meldron who came there we found, I had a, for part of the show I was doing tracking with a guy who was, he was like he kind of looked like odd job, he's called Mr.

you one and he was really tall guy, he had his jaws wired together and he had hands like, you know, like that yeah? And he became very friendly with me. He was a nice guy. And in fact, the camera crew, Aaron, who was doing the filming, Mr. Yuan grabbed hold of me like that and insisted on holding my hand, yeah? And there was a lot of mirth about that.

And then he saw that he thought, yeah, Aaron had appreciated, it was appreciating that he was holding his hands. So, of course, he held Aaron's hand too. So then we've got two guys holding hands with this great big Chinese guy in the middle, and which is very unusual to have a big Chinese guy.

but he had found a print previously that he said was from the year-owner he talked about how he'd seen it basically on a rock moving around sleeping and then afterwards he'd followed it got some tracks and Jeff looked at that print while we were there and was like you know this is something really significant

and as a result of that it was a fascinating piece of research so for the first time there was a joint collaborative scientific project so as I'm aware it's the first time between the Chinese and the Americans on this sort of thing and they published a paper together on that print basically and Jeff postulates in that in that paper about the connection possibly between the errant and some of the

the the prints and associated with the North American ape yeah so it's a great piece of research I was really proud about that I mean answered to your question about other countries that you know I think Russian scientists have taken an interest when I've been out there in the caucuses and have been involved in some degree in the research there not in Sumatra so much, but more so because of the body of evidence has just been found as part of the Arang Pendek projects, they will be. So I think it's a misnomer to say that scientists aren't necessarily interested in doing research. Certainly they're more cautious because some of the people, individuals can be prescribed as being kooky.

But if you've got decent substantive evidence, then they would analyze. it if there was an ability to do so. But what people need to be aware is that these things cost money, yeah? So why should they analyse it? And they need a good reason. And I think one of the problems with some of their methodology used is that it can seem vacuous. And I'll give you a specific example.

So if you are using the habituation method, And this is what I'd say is. Obituation isn't now used by people so much anymore. Jane Goodall doesn't use it, for example. I know she's off-quoted. But you either, and this is not specific to any individual, it's a general point, and I want to emphasize that. But you either put up or shut up. And what I mean by that is if you are Bobby in Arkansas and you say you have a big foot in your garden, then fine.

And you just want to enjoy that feeling or whatever else and you want to do that, then okay. If that's your role, that's your prerogative. It's not for me to judge. But if you say I've got a big foot in that garden and you start putting a YouTube video out and monetising things or you're writing books and making money off people, then you should rightly be open to objective scrutiny. And if you can't take that, then get out of the kitchen. Because you put yourself there and people are paying their hard-earned dollars to, because they believe in what you're saying, or they're interested enough to do that. So you have to produce evidence,

scientific evidence, which can be independently corroborated and tested and objectively analyzed. And if you're not prepared to do that, then it's not correct. It's not a correct approach. That's all I can say. So, and I think the problem with the habituation method in the United States is that so far it's failed to do that. No, I'm not saying that it's an incorrect approach, it's right or wrong, wherever else. I think, you know, whatever works as far as I'm concerned, yeah, so if you are somebody who sets up lots of trail cams, which I've done in the past on a number of occasions, and that's the best approach and that sort of works elsewhere because it does, then good luck to you, yeah. But if you say, on the other token, I've got one in my garden, then I expect evidence from it. I expect it damn quick, because you should be able to get that a lot quicker than somebody who's setting it.

up trail camps in areas. I've been involved with plenty of people who've set up trailcams for tigers and all of that lot. And it can be a long, arduous process to do that. So if one's 400 yards for you and you see it every day, then let's see. You'll show me. Show me.

I wanted to ask you, and I tend to agree with you on that, you know, either put up or shut up in situations like that. Some of this becomes, and you and I both know this, but especially here in the United States, somewhat of a religion. It seems like it turns more into a religion than it does really to do with

a cryptid. I wanted to ask you, though, the one in China with the footprint, did he describe the creature? Yeah, he did. You'll have to forgive me because I've done a lot of stuff since, so my memory isn't as sharp as it should be on it. I'd have to go back and look at my notes to be really

specific. But yeah, he did. From what I can recollect, it was about six foot tall. We had orangey fur. rather, and he was sat on a rock and it was just really sat there, doing not very much and he observed it for a while and he watched it walk away and the

thing that struck him, because he was a tracker, that was what he did, that's what he did all his life, but it walked bipedly. So it walked like a man, but it clearly wasn't a man. It wasn't as tall or as robust physically as the North American ape, but it was clearly

a, something that was, not any known native species and he, since the boy had been there all his life, that was his lacquer. And that was why he started to make the prince and get that evidence. And the Chinese were, you know,

when I was there, were extremely helpful. I encountered no hostility. It was my idea to do the film. I told the embassy in Beijing I was going to do it. And they were polite, you know. I mean, you know, they were polite and helpful. But I think there is some curiosity. amongst a lot of people in the world

about finding some answers to some of their legends and stories and trying to do that and I think that that's noble so there isn't you may get hostility from individuals or certain members of the governments in different areas I'm not talking about but but what I'd say to is there's not I've not encountered any

any roadblocks anywhere in the world which has stopped me from doing my research, even in places which you think may be more clothes than others, that everyone has always been very helpful. When you looked into the Russian almosty, what fascinates me about the omnisty is the witness's descriptions. They seem very, you know, here in the United States, when people talk about Sasquatch, depending a lot on locations,

some witnesses will say it look like a champ. Some witnesses will say, yeah, it looks very much more human-like. some witnesses will say it looked more ape-like but the one thing I thought was interesting and I know you were there with the Almisty it seems like every witness encounter I've listened to

or watched on the internet they always talk about it being more human-like and did you find any evidence or anything when you were there? I didn't find any substantive evidence that could be independently scientifically analyzed I think that's important to stay

I did find some credible some seemingly credible eyewitness reports, which exactly concur with what you've just said, yeah. And I think there's a wider point here with a lot of these things outside of North America that people need to understand. And it's how you present something.

And the way oft is portrayed in the media about Yetis and Bigfoots and all of this lot, they can, to the general public, it's often portrayed slightly vacuously as a big monster that lives. in the woods. So what I'd do and turn it around on his head is say really in a number of these places, if we look at evolution, even 20 or 30 years ago, I'm in my 40s, 20 or 30 years ago, it was very much doubted that we were, we had been, we were kind of unique in the sense that

we've been alone as a hominid for a very, very long time and there's been nothing that that has, you know, Neanderthals have died out, for example. That's a classic way of describing it. But what we've learned since is that, you know, there's been, there are a number of our ancestors or symbols of parallel of evolution, or come on to that, that show that we haven't been. Flores Man, Denavision, all of those sort of things.

And they've only come out in the last 20, 20, 30 years. And what I'd say to people is, if I say to you, Jungle, about the orang pan deck. It sounds bullshit, yeah. But if I, you know, just to think, but if I say to you, look, what I think it is is an orang-a-tank that in

reaction to its circumstances evolved to walk bipedally, and it's a symbol of parallel evolution. And it lives in an area which is very remote in jungle, which you could perfectly adapt in the ecosystem, then there's nothing inherently implausible about that. We have not been alone

for millions of years. We've not been around for millions of years. And And all we are saying is that there are things like us that may still exist in remote corners of the world. And that's what I've been seeking to substantiate. And all of that, all of that is possible. The question is, are they still around in these remote pockets? And one of the things I've just done, for example,

is investigated the Yeti with Josh Gates. I've just been in Nepal and looked at that. And I've been all around the world because I passionately want to understand that point, yeah, about all of these things, could they still be around? And of course, I've come to the conclusion that they are based on too many years of research now, too many years, but it doesn't so much matter what I believe. It matters, what matters is how, can I garner evidence that is independently scientifically tested. And what I believe should be almost irrelevant in the argument.

And if I contrast that with Bigfoot research, and I think there's a very, important point that I want Bigfoot people to realize, Bigfoot researchers to realize. Don't, please don't emulate certainties in discussion. Don't say I am right, yeah. You are not right until it's scientifically, um, independently corroborated. You are not right until then. Um, there is no such thing as certainties in research, ever. Yeah.

So I have this special relationship with Bigfoot's. They only talk to me, they understand me. Well, you know what? I'll go and bust that myth if I have the time. And, you know, the bett noir always has to be, can it be independently scientifically tested and scrutinized? So it's very important we deal with it that way. Yeah, I'm picking off. All right, good to see you, Shane, man.

I'll see you soon, you. We will. Shane, take care. Shane Corson, Monster X. Will say hi? Hey, everybody. See you, Shane. I'll hit you up later, man. When you were up with Josh Gates and the Yeti, do you find anything compelling?

I did find things I'd say were very interesting and persuasive. I'm not allowed to say exactly what I found right now because of the contract of the film. And it's very simply poor. It's not me trying to... No, no, I get that. I understand. I just can't talk about it until it's out. Hopefully it'll be out in summer. It all depends on how the editor as to what we found.

But I think it's fair to say that we did find... I was encouraged by what we found. Yeah, I think it's fair to say that. You know, what do you say to someone who says, Adam, these creatures seem to be found on almost every continent. Every country has a name for them, whether it's Jirin, Almasdi, Bigfoot, Sasquatch, Yeti.

And yet, there's no one that's, it's kind of like if there was an elephant on every continent, and we had a name for it, the Russians had a name for it. You know, people in Nepal had to, a name for it. The Chinese had a name for it. Yet, no, there's not a dead one. No one's shot one. No one's brought one in. Do you think there's like a cover-up going? Do you feel like there's a cover-up going on with this? Because I remember someone had asked me that, and it kind of hit me, you know, I didn't really have an answer for them on that because not so much on the government cover-up. That's a whole

different show, but it's fascinating that it's like on every continent. People are seeing them. There's thousands and thousands of eyewitnesses. And yet there's really not a whole lot of, there's nothing really to show as far as, you'd think someone would have shot one, I guess, is where I'm getting up by now, and brought one in and said, here you go, I shot it, you know.

I think it's a good point. I think, generally speaking, I think there's three different levels you've touched on. Generally speaking, I think they're very rare. They're very hard to find. And I don't want to go on about how the decomposition of bodies in the jungle and things like that, because you get that. And the argument about what happens in North America as well.

The forest recycles and something. Yeah, exactly, and how rare you find things like bears, skeletons. That's all been nuts death. I think that, yeah, so they're very rare, and, you know, you'd be lucky to find fossil records of a number. There are many species we don't know about simply because they haven't got fossil records of them, some of them are quite common, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

I think the second point you make about government conspiracies is a good one. And what I'd say is that governments don't normally act as a homogenous entity to conspire to things. There may well be rogue individuals, there may be departments. I have no evidence of that, but it's possible. But the idea that all a government works in symbiosis to not to stop Bigfoot, for example, being found, would be a fallacy. Often the left arm doesn't know what the right arm's doing, yeah? And even in intelligent agencies, again, this is public knowledge,

they are often criticised for not sharing information between themselves. So that is not plausible. What is plausible is in individuals in particular areas. Mesa will shut up about it. Or there may be something where people are discouraged from talking about things. But I just don't think the government would be very cautious about those sort of things unless there was a movement. simply because if you're a government employee,

you don't want to be seen spending tax dollars on something like Bigfoot, you know, it's public funds. And people like, well, you know, I don't want my money being spent on you going investigating Bigfoot. That's what, you know, it's not there. But what I can say is that if, for example, DNA evidence, you don't need habeas corpus. If DNA evidence is produced,

then I'm fairly confident from my contact with government. scientists in the past. I mean, what I mean by DNA evidence, I mean a scientific paper which is peer-reviewed and published in something like nature. I don't just mean it comes back as unknown, yeah? It needs to be of a very high standard. Always, always, always, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. So it has to be of that level. But if it does, then I'm very confident there would be, and I know that there would be a research project and credible scientists and government would be involved. And I think as well, again, people need to think that there's not a, that there's no conspiracy, that those sort of, those sort of studies would happen. But the bar of

proof is very, very high. And the government's not going to invest tax dollars in those things. Because it's not, it would not be electorally the right move. What did you find in Sumatra? Well, in Sumatra, that's probably one of the most interesting places. Again, I was interested in the legends, the legends of the Aang Pendat go back to Marco Polo. So you're talking, you know, 13th century or whatever. I mean, a long, long time. We're talking about hairy people that live in the woods.

And I've collected a huge amount of eyewitness projects. I mean, and there's been some very notable people who've done research. not just I, but most specifically, and there are a number, but I'm not going to do a big list. But Debbie Marta and Jeremy Holden were very important in gathering a lot of evidence about their own Pendeck. And I found, you know, together with the teams I've been out with, so it wasn't just me, a print evidence which was analysed by Chivers at Cambridge

and Jeff Meldrum, had come back as unknown primate. We found hair samples, which were scrutinised by Hans Brunner, and who did the Dingo Baby case in Australia, and we worked for the Australian police at the time. So, you know, if he was good enough to work for the Australian police in a potential murder case, he is somebody, you can't dismiss him as a scientist, and he said, well, looking at this, it comes back as a no primate.

So there's a credible body of evidence. But what's really exciting now is, after I took Cliff Barrackman from the Finding Bigfoot show to Indonesia, I took him into the jungle and did all of that, he decided to form something called the Iran Pendek project he was his idea not mine and he paid for that and that's got many many cast now

I can't remember off top of my head how many he's got but like 50 odd yeah and I'm sure that that will become the subject of a paper at some point and I'd hope that the evidence for the existence of the Aaron Pendet will really only be a matter of time How do witnesses describe the ringpin, Nick? I'd have to do a generic description, obviously,

but broadly speaking, roughly about five foot tall, darker hair on its body. But there are two things that are really important, I think, about it. They describe, often they describe a huge torso, so a very strong physical muscular physique here. And the other thing is they say, it runs like a man. And one of the most important I witness is Sahara tracker

who I went out into the jungle many times with who sadly passed away now. He was so moved when he saw it that, and he was a hardcore guy. He lived on the edge of the jungle and he went out tracking all the time and he dealt with tigers and all about. He burst into tears, yeah? And so you have this very, this little hardcore engineering, teasing guy actually sobbing when I'm hugging him so moved with you by seeing that so often people can have

you know the correlation and I'm aware that often people have this in north America a very strong emotional reaction when they see something like that almost like a cognitive dissonance point you know I can't I can't actually believe what I'm seeing because it doesn't make sense it really doesn't but it actually exists have you had any violent encounters with their ring bandag I haven't I I I spent sometime with the king of the Senacalam yeah it's a

there are tribal people and they're often called the kubu but there's a longer name for them and I forgive me I can't remember it right now but that's the more appropriate the longer thing and he described how he

and a son had been out hunting and they had and wanted chase them Yeah, it had come down the path like that with its arms up and ran towards them and they'd run away from it and they'd hidden and it and he described how it had been it had been looking for him. This thing had been looking for him in the bushes, yeah? But that was the only actually aggressive encounter I ever heard about in all the years I studied of the Ahrang Pandak. The classic encounter is people stumble across it. I don't think it's got superior hearing towards which is interesting. You know, one of the guys I met described how he saw two of them fighting, yeah, over some ratans, some young ratan shoots, like a food stuff.

And he stumbled across him as he was walking on the trail. And they were bit so engrossed, they didn't see him, and then they picked up and ran away. The other ones describe how often how it forages. So it forages forages for fruit on the edge of the ever-ever encroaching into the jungle farmland, which is another whole new story. and or it's raided for sugar cane it seems to like high-calorie sugar stuff so those are the things and in all in all encounters

the person comes stumbles across it it's surprised they're surprised and it runs off in different ways of variances but that's it yeah it's interesting it sounds like a Sasquatch you know most there are violent encounters I have talked to witnesses

had violent encounters but I would say the bulk of the encounters that's exactly what it is they come in, they see the creature, creature sees them, they both kind of freak out and part ways. It's such a fascinating topic. I mean, if someone were to ask you today, you know, Adam, what do you think Sasquatch is?

What would you say to them? I'd say right now I really don't know in a speculation. But what I'd say is what intrigues me about Sascawra. I've studied apes, great apes in the wild, so I've been very privileged to do that. I've seen things. that a lot of people haven't been published. I've seen guerrillas in the wild.

I've seen orangutans in the world. I'm not going to do a whole list, but I've seen them. I've seen their behaviour. And what strikes me is the level of sentience of the, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, it. about Sasquatch is just how bright it is. That's what I'm interested in. Is it, does it have a, I don't think it's ever going to,

I don't think it's, I don't believe it's, it's a magical big foot with lots of powers of healing and all of that lot. I think that's not plausible. But what, does it have a level of intelligence which is, is near our own to some degree? So is it, in some ways in between, say something like an Arang, which is highly intelligent, probably the most intelligent, the grey apes that can, you know, do quite sophisticated sign language

and you can see some of the things it does. It's amazing. And ourselves, yeah. Where does it lie? Yeah. Because that has all sorts of philosophical implications in relation to sentience for us. And also in understanding our own lineage, yeah. I think we need to be, humans are an arrogant species,

and I think we need to be careful of the notion that we're particularly special. And I'm not talking about from a theological point of view. I'm talking about from a physiological and sentient point of view, if that makes sense. Yeah, I know you've studied more than just, you know, unknown hominids and Sasquatch and all these other things. You look into Lake Monsters. What would you say it's probably the most interesting cryptid you've looked into that you really thought there's something to this beyond Bigfoot?

I'm talking, you know, whether it be even Dogman, I don't know if you want to bring that up, but or lake monsters or what is one you looked into whether you thought there's something to that. There really is something to that. Well, Dogman, I haven't done anything on it yet. I will do on the basis of some information that you've just given me, yeah? So I will do.

I have a problem with Dogman because I can't see the genus. So in other words, I can't see how that could have evolved, yeah? But that doesn't mean to say I won't have a crack at it. I mean, I'm right now near the border of San Diego. I'll have a look at that stuff. I've got to keep an open mind. It's important I do that. Crypt is when I saw the cellular serpent.

in Norway. It's the only one I actually saw. What is that? Can you describe it? The equivalent of the Loch Ness Monster in Norway. And I saw that undulating through the water. I could see the undulating motion as it moved through the water. I could see the barbs on its back. And

I can say that with some confidence because at the time the team I was with also dropped hydrophones in the water. Now hydrophones are interesting because I think they're better than Sona. Although Sonault is there. Because The sonar can show a large object moving through the water, but there's no further determination as to what it might be recently.

You can do some supposition. But the hydrophone can show the noise emissions it records in the same way as you're recording me now. So what we can do with those is we can cross-reference that to a known species and draw some interesting conclusions. So what we did there was we sent those off to the Marine Research Institute in Bergen, who are experts in their field Dr. Ols Soldol

came out at the end of it saying I am astonished to say it's an unknown species so at the same time as we were seeing the serpent there were noise emissions being made or things which was from an unknown species

so it's pretty exciting stuff so that was the that's probably aside from the hominids that's probably the one that was the most credible because of the evidence I've just stated. I mean, I've done some very hardcore things. I've been to the jungle and I got to Lake Telly

to look for the McKinema member, the Congo dinosaur, and that was a whole deal of pain. And while it was a great adventure, I didn't find anything. Substantive. I found some of my witness reports, but nothing substantive. But I think it's important to say that

because one of the things that I'm a little bit wary of is that when people associated with Bigfoot, you can go out and, just be lucky, yeah? But when people have multiple sightings in different areas, I sort of think, well, I've been doing this for many, many years, and I've seen, I saw the celliard serpent, but it was, and then I was all over the world, and I got close to seeing things like the around pedd, but I never saw them. It wasn't until many years later from that, what was it, 60 and 17 years later, I think, on top of my head, before I actually saw anything else, you know,

So when someone says, well, I saw a big foot in Oregon, and then three months later I saw one in Washington, and then I saw one in Kentucky, I mean, I have to doubt the credibility of whether that's remotely plausible. One thing I thought was interesting, you were talking about the apes and how you studied them in the wild. I had a guy on Friday show, two brothers, and they are having issues with these creatures coming in.

And the whole, they're, I say, neighborhood. I mean, they're like on five acres. The next plot over is five acres. And it makes a long story short. One thing that made me think of the ape, when we were talking about it last night around the fire, is one of the brothers was chased by one. And they didn't know what they were at first.

They didn't know. They thought one of the brothers thought it was demons. Didn't know what it was. This thing had chased him up through his garage. He went into the house, closed the door. well, it had stopped. So he goes in and tells his brother that he just got chased by something. And his brother's like, okay, well, let's go check it out.

So they go in there, in their garage, there's like 22-inch tracks from muddy tracks. But the part that I thought was fascinating, and I've never heard another witness say this. Both of the guys go, you know it peed. And I go, what? And they go, yeah, it looked like he had peed as it was chasing him. And I don't know if that's like a primate thing. I mean, you ever heard of primates doing that when they get excited? Yeah, well, they certainly pee when they're marking their territory, yeah?

It could have peed because it was afraid, we don't know. But there's so much we don't know about these things. And I think that goes to the point of dealing with certainties. You know, it's okay to say you don't know. I think it's okay to say I made a mistake of how I was wrong, yeah? What's not okay that sometimes can happen in Bigfoot research is, I am sure. You're not sure. You're not sure.

And we all make mistakes, we can all be fallible, We can all, we can, you know, until you have a, even if you had a scientific study for years, and there were ones studying in Locale, you still wouldn't be sure about anything, probably for about a decade, you know. So, I appreciate you saying that, you know, my viewpoint's changed a lot over the years with this. And it seems like when you think you have it figured out, you realize you don't have anything figured out. But do you say, when you, you don't have anything figured out? But do you say when you've changed your opinion,

I changed my opinion based on... Oh, of course, yeah. Of course. That's right, yeah. How many people have you come across, I don't know the names, where you've come... In Big Fort Research, where they've not changed their opinion.

Very few. Yeah, very few. Regardless of what evidence is presented to them. Because, you know, it can almost be an ideological thing. This is my view of how this thing works. I've never seen one. or even if I have seen when I've caught a glimpse of it. And on that basis, I do my research this way.

And I'm not going to change no matter what you say. Yeah. And I'm sure, no, you need to, at the end of the day... I always say I don't have one of my garage I'm studying. Yeah. And until I have one of my garage I'm studying, I know sometimes I have witnesses on and they'll say, well, you know, you're the...

You know what you're talking about. And I really don't know any more than anyone else. Yeah. All you're doing is presenting, all you should be doing is presenting reasonable hypotheses of how you think it might be. Yeah. So if you said to me, are you sure about something? I'd always say no, I'm not sure. But what I'd say is this is my best educated hypothesis, educated on the basis of my experience.

And it no way it means I'm right. I'm just trying to figure it out in the best way. Yeah, you come up with theories on different things. But like anything else, especially with theories or hypotheses, you know, they, they change over time depending on new data new you know information that comes in it can change over time it has to change over time otherwise we already got it figured out what are we doing here you know what i mean yeah absolutely if there was no if there was no uh no questions to be answered then there wouldn't be any point would they yeah well adam i appreciate your time i appreciate you coming on

the show i really enjoyed it and i enjoyed meeting you at uh beachfoot like i said always wanted me you know it's a true pleasure. Oh, thank you very much, Wes. And, you know, one of the things I say is coming soon at the International Bigfoot Conference, I'll be doing a presentation on the latest research that I've just done, which I think many of your listeners will find revelatory. So that's coming up, and hopefully we can talk again soon, and I'll tell you all about it. Thank you, sir.

I'm hanging out with Russell. Russell A-Cord. How you doing? Ed Brown. Ed Brown. And the old Woodster. Yep. Woody Pratt.

And what I want to do, guys, I know you guys have the International Bigfoot Conference coming up. We guys talk a little bit about it. What can people expect? I know we're going to be going. So if all the people out there listening, Woody and I will be there. For the audience, we guys talk about what the conference is about, what people can expect. Going to get some of the latest and greatest evidence pulled out of the field, some of the top cryptologists, the top researchers on the planet that are going to be here. It's international.

So we made a draw from all walks of life, it seems like. And just got a really dynamic lineup, Ed? Oh, yeah. We've got world-leading scientists, world-leading cryptosologists, world-leading researchers. We've even got up-and-comers coming. That was the idea of the whole conference in the first place was to give the up-and-comers an opportunity to share the stage with the big guys, you know, and let them get their research out, let people know who they are and what they're doing,

because they've got some really cool stuff, too. When is the conference? September 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. It's over the Labor Day weekend. That way everybody can come in, have a great time, not worry about having to rush home on Monday. Everybody has Monday off. So it's Friday afternoon for the meet-and-greet,

Saturday speakers, Sunday morning speakers, and then a chance to win some really amazing prizes on Sunday. Well, actually throughout the entire event, we'll give something away every hour. And then the big major door prizes are four-wheeler on Sunday. Brand-spanking new quad. Brand-spanking.

thinking new. You guys got real gifts, not like Sasquatch Chronicle shirts we give out. Sure, we'll give a couple shirts out, but you know, whatever you guys want to give us for to get, I'm just teasing. No, absolutely, absolutely. No, we have some really amazing local sponsors from the Tri-Cities area. We have McCurley Chevrolet and the Thunder Alley Motorsports, who is the ones who donated the four-wheeler, which was

a really generous thing to kind of get them out there. They're competing with Harley. They have the victory. They have just state-of-the-art, top-notch equipment there, but for them to donate a four-wheeler to get there to give away on Sunday, that's a pretty generous gift. Very generous gift. Yeah, and so where's it at, and what are the dates again, Ed?

It's going to be in Kennewick, the Tri-Cities area in Washington. It's going to be at the Three Rivers Convention Center. Tri-City Convention Center. No, Three Rivers Convention Center, yeah. Do you guys know where it's out or? Actually, if you ever going to a concert in this, the Tri-Cities is generally at the Toyota Center. They share the same parking lot as for your big major concerts,

but the convention center will seat 3,500 people comfortably. When you step inside, it's just really architecturally very beautiful. You feel like you walked into an airport that's just been designed. It's a fairly new building to the Tri-Cities. Great facility for conventions just like this. They will be serving their own concessions there so that you're not going to come there and not have, you don't have to leave the building to go find food.

It'll be there. So it'll be, and about that time of the year, it's over 100 degrees, most likely. So you're going to be in great air conditioning environment and great company. And where can people go to find out more about it? Go to the international bigfoot conference.com. And with that, you get a list of the speakers, door prizes.

Hotels are available. Russ did a great job, by the way, of setting up hotels, but that deal is just about over. I'll let Russ touch on that in a minute. But discounts have already been worked out. All they got to do is call the hotel that they choose, telling her with the International Bigfoot Conference, and boom, they get a discount automatically.

So that's already been taken care of. It's going to be a phenomenal event. It really is. It's going to be awesome. If you go on the upper tabs of the web page, you'll be able to look at the sponsors and the hotels, which you can click on a link right then and there, or there'll be a phone number provided.

They've blocked out certain amount of rooms for each host. hotel that will expire as of August 2nd. They only do it 30 days out and then they will give them to the public so that the public can use them for the Labor Day weekend. If you wait until after August 2nd, you'll be paying full price instead of the discounted rate for number one. Also, tickets are available. That's the right now, that's the only way that we're selling tickets is online through our webpage, but they will be available at the front door as well. So it's whatever you choose to do. If you want to be ahead of the game and get your tickets early, we'll have your tickets made up for you or your badges made up for you before you get there.

So it helps. I'm looking forward to it. Woody and I will be there. And thanks guys for your time. I can't wait for it. And if people go to Sasquatch Chronicles.com, I'll link up to the website. That way you can check it out too as well. Make sure you like our page also.

International Bigfoot Conference Facebook page. Make sure you go in there and like that as well. Because right, that's where all the information is going. You know, it's going there first, all the things that are coming up, all the exciting news that's happening. because we've got, I get out of our 14 presentations, there's at least four that I know are groundbreaking, never heard before, new stuff.

And that's at least four, and then there's probably more. So that's going to be awesome. See you there. Thank you. See you guys there. Thank you guys. Appreciate it. Thanks.

And that's it for tonight, everyone. Remember, if you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. Wes at Sasquatchronicles.com. I hope to see you guys at the International Pickfoot Conference. Until next time, everyone. Have a great night.

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