Sasquatch Chronicles - Show Notes with Shannon-Author and Investigator, Linda Godfrey

Episode Date: February 24, 2015

On this episode of Show Notes with Shannon, I will be joined by Linda Godfrey. She is the author of 16 books on strange creatures, phenomena and people. She's a frequent guest on national TV and radio shows, including Monsterquest (Seasons 1 and 4), Lost Tapes, Monsters and Mysteries, Sean Hannity's America, Inside Edition, Coast to Coast AM, NPR, Wis. Public Radio and many more. She lives in the Kettle Moraine area of SE Wisconsin with her husband and monster dog, Grendel. Her newest book is:American Monsters; A History of Monster Lore, Legends and Sightings in America.

Welcome to Show Notes with Shannon LaGroe. Give her a call at 646-716-8791. Good evening and welcome to Show Notes with Shannon. Hope you all enjoyed Will's new show into the abyss, which we added to our member content. Now, that will air every Saturday evening at 6 p.m. Pacific. And a big thanks to everyone who called in to talk to Will, including an old friend of the show, Kenny from Las Vegas. Don't forget, Will is going to be on Darkness Radio with Darkness Dave, Dave Schrader, this coming Wednesday at 9 p.m. Central Standard Time.

Now, for Saskron Sunday, we had Christine Dela Parker on with us, and she has actually had a shocking amount of supposed activity around her property from audio to things being thrown at her house to full-on sightings of the creatures. She feels that there is at least two types present on any given day with the dogman during the day and the traditional Bigfoot at night. She has said that she felt a more ominous, aggressive impression from what she dubs the daytime Bigfoot's. and I know that I speak for myself and many that I would be very interested to see someone go out and confirm all of the activity that she says is going on there with her and her family. And I did, though, read somewhere that Dave Schrader may be going out. So I think that would be a fantastic move on his part or anyone's part to go out there and check that property out.

Now, a couple of honorable mentions to Ryan Gillespie. Thank you, sir, for listening in. A hello to Michael Dorenzo. And one of our past guests, everyone will remember him very well. His name is Tracy, and he's now a really good friend of ours and mine personally. He's doing very well. He's talking to and meeting others who have had experiences. and has even been back to the scene of his terrifying encounter.

And it took a lot for him to do that, but he finally did that. So, bravo to him. And I do want to remind everyone that, you know, I am in fact a local Ohioan. And sometime in the near future, I would really like to start putting together some video interviews on site, if possible, at the place of your encounter or siting. and if that's not possible, it's not a deal breaker. Get in contact with me at Shannon at Sasquatch Chronicles.com, and we will go from there.

As maybe you've guessed, Dave is not on with me again this week. He still is a little bit sick, so next week I am sure he will be on with us Feel Better Dave. But tonight, I am so excited to have on with me author and investigator Linda Godfrey. She is the author of 16 books on strange creatures, phenomena, and people. She's a frequent guest on national TV and radio shows, including Monster Quest, Lost Tapes, Monsters and Mysteries, Sean Hannity's America, Coast to Coast A.M., and many more.

She lives in the Kettle Moraine area of Southeast Wisconsin with her husband and monster dog, Grendel. She is a 23-year veteran researcher of all things for Tien, and her latest book is entitled American Monsters. Welcome to the show, Linda Godfrey. Hello, Shannon. Thanks so much for having me. Oh, thank you so much for being here. Really appreciate it. We're all very excited. Well, it's a great time of year to think about cryptids because, you know, the weather is out there forces you indoors a little bit and makes you kind of plan where you're going to go and where your next hikes are and trying to find good days for hikes in the snow and you can see tracks and, you know, all kinds of things. So it's at least in this part of the country. Although I think

this year, most of the country is like that. I hear down south is also experiencing snow that they don't usually. Yeah, I would happen to agree with that. And that's a really positive way of of looking at, you know, maybe what people dubbed cabin fever. I like that. Just more time to plan, right? Right, exactly. And when you can get out, like I said, there's, you know, really good tracking a lot of the time. If you had the right kind of snow conditions.

Absolutely. Now, first off, I do want to say that to everyone, American Monsters comes highly recommended. It covers many different cryptid sightings, monsters by sea, giant winged creatures such as the ropin, the van meter visitor, which is one of my personal favorites, and many others. And of course, you know, for our purposes this evening, we'll be covering the chapters and subject. You know, the chapters are titled, Upright Canine Monsters and Watch for Sasquatch.

And honestly, Linda, I wanted to go ahead and jump right into Dogman. and maybe the earliest known reports of a dogman-type preacher in the United States? Well, I don't know that there's any hard and fast answer to that. If you go back in some of the very earliest newspapers, you can find sightings written up. And, of course, journalistic standards weren't then quite what they are now, at least in, at least, in our mainstream, you know, papers. I'm not talking about the onion or, you know, any of the tabloid type of things.

But there were sightings of what sounded like that people wouldn't know really what to call it. They would say these hairy things walking up right, and you have to read really closely to try and even figure out if they do mean a bear or a big foot or an upright canine. But you do find a few of them. And you can go farther back to the, you know, 1600s, when the very first fur trappers and explorers started coming, and especially around the Great Lakes area, which sort of happens to be a main area

for these kinds of creatures. And they would hear things from the Native Americans about both Bigfoot and dog-headed men and things like that, different types of creatures. And, you know, have to try and sift them out from what. which were just very ancient legends, which were things that were supposed to be seen, which were things that had a more magical connotation that had to do with their shamans and that sort of thing. So, I mean, you can find references to this sort of creature going way back. But when you are thinking about a modern concept of a sighting,

where somebody is able to describe this strange incommission, and talk about the creature and sort of write it up more on the basis of a report where they're trying to really get the full description in and everything. Those don't show up in great numbers until probably the first decades. I have them going back to the 30s, the 1930s. And like I said, there are other ones in the 1800s and before, but they're not quite as clear cut. and easy to understand. Maybe more so for Bigfoot than Dog Man, I think. You can find reports that really sound pretty much like Bigfoot

that are earlier than ones for the dog man. But when I look at all of the ones that I've gathered and the ones in my book, the earliest ones that I can really recognize as a dog man and that seem like the modern reports are in the 1930s and since then. I know that sounds like a long answer, but it's very complicated. It's kind of complex.

It's not cut and dried. Linda, with all the reports and research that you've done specifically to, you know, Wolfman or Dog Man, whatever you want to call it, what do you think it is? That is the $64 million question. Because I have ideas. You know, and I think my ideas about it have sort of evolved over the last 24 years since I was, you know, first encountering this thing as a newspaper reporter. You know, and my very first encounters with it, I really thought there must be just some sort of wolf-like creature that was, for some reason, adapted to walking on its hind legs out on Bray Road. because at first until my newspaper story was published,

I didn't realize that this was a nationwide and worldwide phenomenon. And then when I discovered, it was known everywhere and that it had to be either a breeding population of a natural animal or something else. There really aren't any other choices. Then I started being able to, What I try to do is keep my reporter hat on and look at it from both sides. And that's what I started doing right from that moment.

I could see the arguments that this was nothing more than an upright natural creature. But on the other hand, there would also be reports from some people who seemed in every way as credible and believable as the other witnesses where it would do things that a normal animal wouldn't do. You know, the eye shine color would be wrong. For instance, canine eyeshine is usually somewhere between yellow gold, yellow greeny, something like that. And then people would say, well, it had bright red eyeshine that glowed, you know,

and so that's not on the usual playlist. Or it would seem to be built more differently. probably 90 plus percent of the reports that I receive are what you would not be able to see any sort of supernatural ability if you looked at them. In other words, they're very, very wolf-like or dog-like in all their aspects. They're not part-human according to their looks. they have the head of a wolf for German Shepherd if you look at their limbs their four limbs

are usually kind of how like if a dog is in begging position wanting a biscuit you know and how they hold their arm sort of in front of them although they can use them in other ways people have also seen them carrying things in those four limbs or walking with them down

by their sides but they're never as long and muscular as a big foot on. If you look at their feet, that's the biggest difference from human and other primates, is that they walk like canines on their toe pads, which is the fancy term for that is digital grade. And that's really, really hard to pull off if you're a primate. I mean, imagine running on the balls of your feet down a highway for a mile, you know, or through the woods like that, as people see these things going. But they're covered with her.

They have tails. They have fangs. They have claws at the ends of their paws. And people, that is one difference. People will say, well, they had paws with claws. But very often they notice that those paws are slightly elongated. And that's borne out in the tracks that we find, because the tracks are almost as big or bigger than a large timber wolf.

They're usually between five and six inches. And you can see the claw point. when we've been able to find them. And by the way, it's probably the best evidence that we have. But so they're not human-like, most of the reports. And they can walk. Canines can walk very easily on their hind legs if they're motivated and are trained. In other words, if they're missing on limb and it's the only way that they can get around and survive.

Or if they're trained by circus owners or people who want to have a dancing dog or that kind of thing, They can do that. It's not a supernatural act. But when you see something that because of its size, when it does stand up and it's, say, six to seven feet tall and it's walking on its high legs and therefore it's eyeball to eyeball with you and staring you down, it makes it feel human, even if it isn't. So it's really hard to separate out what it is that gives people this eerie feeling

that even though it looks like it's all animal, many people do say, well, they did feel it was different, maybe more intelligent than, say, a bear in the wilds or a normal wolf. Very often people will feel that they're getting some kind of a message from it. And it's not like they're hearing a voice in their head or hearing it in English or anything like that, but it'll just be a mental impression. Like they'll say, I felt it was telling me it was superior to me. or that it could jump on my car if it wanted to, or that if I told anybody it would get me, you know, that kind of thing.

And again, it's hard to, you can say, well, that sounds very paranormal. It sounds like thought transference, ESP, that sort of thing. Or you can say, well, we have a great ability, an innate ability, to read body language of not just humans, but creatures, even of subconsciously. And this is sort of hard, you know, probably from our earlier survival data when we didn't all have protective houses. If you couldn't read the language of a creature that you ran into to know whether it wanted

to eat you or not, you probably weren't going to be around to reproduce yourself. So, you know, you can see this as either one way or the other. And it's that way with many, many things. However, I will say that lately. I seem to be getting more and more reports where it's doing something that is not in the normal range of abilities for a canine. And, for instance, I have one very fascinating report that I've been working on, and the full report will be included in my next book that will be coming out hopefully by the end of this year. We'll see how my writing continues to profess.

But this was something that a man was driving along. He was in northern Pennsylvania in sort of a mountainous area. And he got on his highway, and it's nighttime, and he sees this strange light barreling down the mountainside that will eventually meet up with the road that he's driving on. And all he can think of is that it must be somebody in an ATV because it's a very rough territory. And he's thinking like, wow, is this ATV going to drop onto the highway? You know, there was like a six or seven foot drop. It wasn't a smooth ride onto the highway.

And he's watching anxiously because he doesn't want to crash into whatever it is. And when this light, sure enough, hits the top and drops down onto the highway in front of him, he thinks it's not an ATV. It's a very large canine on its hind legs. and it's glowing. It is completely emitting light from all over its body. Oh, wow. And this is someone that I've had a pretty good record of interviews with

and has done me a witness sketch and verified the location and checked them out as well as I can. You know, and he checks out. I have no reason to disbelieve him. He wants to remain anonymous and, you know, with good reason probably. So this is not something that you can explain away as a natural animal. Other times people may see these things with almost a supernatural height. They get up to like eight or nine feet.

Usually in this case they're described as having a smooth jet black skin. They'll remind people of anubis. They're on their hind legs. Oftentimes peering in people's windows from the outside or inside. Usually in their bedroom, they don't, it's not like the hag-ridden syndrome where somebody will wake up and feel this thing on their chest, you know, pushing them in or paralyzed. It's just that they'll usually wake up and realize one or two of these beings are in the room with them. And these things usually do have the red eyes.

sunshine. Usually they don't do anything. They just vanish, literally vanish in front of people's eyes. And these things do seem to me like they're in a different category than the run-of-the-mill, dogman running alongside the road or crouching by the road or that people meet up with in a trail when they're hiking or hunting or fishing, you know, that kind of thing. So it may be that there are several different types of manifestations besides a natural animal. and I don't feel that I can say, sure, I know exactly what it is because I don't yet, not honestly, because I haven't had one right in front of me to poke and test and say, yep, okay, now we can all say this is what it is. Many people believe they know what it is, and I respect that.

If you have a strong belief that this is what you really feel, it is, and especially people who've, been able to see a whole one. I may have seen a part of one, and I've, you know, come across tracks and talk to hundreds of people who've seen it, which gives me the ability to say, well, I know they exist. I know that something that looks like what these people are describing exists, but I don't know still for sure exactly what they're composed of. And I've said right from the beginning that it could very well be several different types of things that we're looking at, perhaps ranging in different degrees from very natural

to completely otherworldly. Linda, I was wondering your thoughts on dogman being possibly, if at all, a type of or a subspecies of Sasquatch in any way? I don't think so because, and what I base this on is, again, not my own bias or wish. It doesn't matter to me one way or the other, personally, except that what I go by is the reports. And when you look at the consensus of what most big foot look like,

it's a primate. And they walk flat-footed. They walk like humans with knees bent. They have very broad shoulders. The canine, they have a very different hat. It may be prognathic or protruding just a little bit just because of their facial structure. But they have a very different head. Most of the time their ears are usually hidden by hair or fur on their heads.

And they're much bigger. They weigh a lot more and are much broader and more muscular. The dogmen, for people who get good looks at them, and there are many who have, even in daytime. If any time they're able to really see it well, they're positive that it's a canine. And again, the differences are very great. It has a canine head with a long muzzle, fangs, not the broad teeth that you usually see described by Bigfoot witnesses. And that I've had described to me by Bigfoot witnesses. Plainly ears on top of the head, very visible.

They'll have a neck. They do not have actual shoulders. although I think sometimes their upper fore limbs get more developed muscularly than normal canines because they're using those four limbs in different ways rather than just, you know, tremendous on. But, you know, they're built very differently through the shoulders than any kind of primate is. They're not made to swing through trees or hang from branches. If they can climb trees, it's usually by putting their limbs around it and kind of inching themselves up. So that's different.

Bigfoot is usually described as having hands like ours with, you know, with nails rather than claws. And in fact, I've been interviewing a gentleman that had a really amazing close-up encounter with a Bigfoot who said he saw their nails so clearly. It was only 30 feet from them. And he said it had black blunt nails that were, some of them were broken. I mean, you could tell this thing hadn't had a good manicure. here like ever, you know, and that it used these, that it used these, you know, probably for digging and bark or whatever. But he said they were just like ours.

And it had ears. He actually could see the ears because it had swum across the river to get to him. And the water had parted the hair here and there. So he could see, he could see its skin in between on the legs where the water had made the hair kind of drip and separate. And the same thing on its head. he could actually see one ear because the water had pulled back, pulled the hair back over the air. And he said it looked just like Ari's except a little bigger and a little bit pointed on the top.

And then, again, the biggest difference that makes me know that they're not the same species is that leg structure because the canines, almost every witness of the dog man will say, well, what I saw it do was run or walk on its hind legs, except its knees were bent backwards. And by that, they're just sort of describing, in the first way that comes to them, the fact that the canine, because it's walking on its toe pads, what would be our heel and ankle area or hawk,

if we call it what the animals, is up off the ground where we're expecting to see a knee. So we're expecting to see it bending forward there, but it's bending backwards because it's really part of the, what we would call the foot structure in a human or a primate. so that's why I really don't think and the size difference is great usually they're they're much slimmer through the the uh the thorax to the down to where the hips are you know it's just a very different creature it's like I often say it would be like comparing a chimpanzee to a hyena

if that makes it easier to see yeah absolutely Linda where was that report from of the one that was swimming? What state? Illinois. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. That's going to be in my book and it's an amazing, amazing educational sighting. Yeah. These are supposed to be incredible swimmers, so I always love hearing them being under the water and they can swim for really quite great distances. And quickly, this thing crossed about 90 foot river in less than five minutes. Without the guy hearing it, he had first seen it on the other bank. And before he knew it, it was...

Now, what about the encounters, which not every time, but a lot of times the assumption is, or the impression is that a dog man is aggressive. You always think of dog man, oh, no, I don't want to see a dog man, but I'll take a big foot. probably part of that. You know, my hands are up. I would rather see a Bigfoot probably than a dog man.

It just seems more terrifying. And some of the reports do seem more aggressive. Yeah, and I think in general that's true. I don't think it's true in every situation. I know that there are people who have bigfoot counters that were terrified by that. You know, and these are massive creatures. And I think that they are something that really should be treated

with a lot of respect. But I think perhaps it's because the dog man evokes this innate fear that we have of, you know, wolves and dogs probably, again, hardwired into us to be afraid of something that snarls and has fangs and claws. And then they do act aggressively, too. You know, they will, I think, more frequent. than Bigfoot. These things are apt to chase people. They'll chase cars. They'll jump a car and scratch them. And so many witnesses over and over have told me I thought I was lunch. I thought it was dead meat.

You know, I thought it was going to get me next in the next second. And then it will just, next thing they know, veer off into whatever cover is there for them, whether it's underbrush or, you know, a woods or marsh or marsh or, you know, a woods or marsh or, whatever is there, a cornfield, and run off. And it may still follow them for a while unseen, but I don't have any instance where it went and full-on, or excuse me, attacked somebody. I have no interest like that recorded in the 22 years that I've been collecting my reports of them.

And I think that's pretty significant. And while I always cautioned that perhaps there were some that did not live to tell the tale, and just became one of perhaps David Polite's missing 411 people. You know, we would have no way of knowing that. But among those who saw them and reported them, it just doesn't seem to happen. Yeah. Now, how about what states in the U.S. have some of the higher reports of dogman sightings?

Well, this is interesting, and I do, it's something that I have tried to track from the very beginning, and I've noticed right away that there were more sightings east of the Mississippi than west. There are more sightings probably around the Great Lakes of Michigan and Wisconsin, Ohio, Pennsylvania are all states with very strong settings. sightings. And they continue on up to the most of the eastern seaboard states have them. And then there's another, it's almost like you can see these kind of legs of migration routes that come down and out from the Great Lakes. One curves up toward the eastern seaboard states. Another one goes down to Kentucky, again, a state with many, many sightings. My friend Bart and only can attest. You go down to Arkansas, Georgia,

into Texas. Oklahoma has quite a few. And then they sort of thin out as you get into those wide open western spaces and then start up again. I've been getting more and more from California, especially around the L.A. Canyon, surprisingly.

And then up in the northern part of California where you might expect them more. And I do have to make, again, I always try and be my own devil's advocate And you can say, well, is that because there are so many more dogmen there, or is it because we get more reports from the more highly populated states because there are more people to see them? And especially in Wisconsin, I'm always aware that although it seems to be where...

It may only be because I've been one of the people reporting these things for the longest, and there are more people in Wisconsin who are aware of me and aware that somebody is keeping track of these things. You know, so you can look at it either way, but I do believe generally that the Great Lake States and then down through the southern states to the southeast and state south, probably have the greatest concentration. And that's an interesting way to look at it.

Is there more reports or just more awareness? And like you said, a lot of people are aware of you. So you obviously get a ton of reports from your area, which, by the way, has both Bigfoot and Dogman reports. And, you know, now, Sasquatch is reported in, I mean, many states from Arizona to northern Nevada and then East Coast, Ohio, where I'm at. why do you think that is it just you know it's complete speculation of course is it just population density to where as you mentioned you're finally getting some reports of dogman all the way on california but is it just a population you know situation or or just the reports are not coming in of dogman because it's maybe even weirder than a Sasquatch

Yeah, it does, but you know, it does seem weirder, you know, and it's a little bit ironic because the dog man or upright wolf-like creature actually has a fossil record in the form of timber wolves, not necessarily that you can see in the fossil record or in the natural animal present now that it walks upright. but it does look exactly like a very large timber wolf or perhaps dog wolf hybrid walking upright. So that we do have that natural animal. And if you saw a dead one, you wouldn't really know, other than you might notice that it's a plaza a little long, you wouldn't really know that it was anything different than that. Whereas the Sasquatch, we don't know or have any proof

that we have a large primate like that. in North America. So between the two, it's probably, you know, originally seems like it will be the least native to the North American continent. So that's kind of ironic. That being said, I really think that Sasquatch sayings are more common. It seems to me that they're more widespread. And I think that, and this is just solely a speculative guess,

on my part, but I think if somehow you were able to do a headcount of the man wolf and the fast watch, that there would be a higher population of Bigfoot. I really just think that. And the other thing is, between the two, the Bigfoot seems to leave a lot more evidence of itself. It seems to make structures of some kind that are pretty consistent really where you've got a lot of strong sightings. You do find the structure like stick huts or whatever you want to call them. They seem to, they're known for the rock throwing.

They have these other things that go with them that you can sort of sniff them out in an area where when the dogmen show up they don't seem to have any kind of thing like that at all where you could say oh yeah look at other than tracks I would say if you see very large bipedal canines that would be a pretty good indication but you know they don't they don't have an opposable thumb as far as I know and don't have the ability to and their arms aren't built right to throw something sticks or rocks at people. Right, absolutely. You don't, yeah, so you don't even have that. It's a different sort of thing. And I think sightings of them are much more likely to be random, you know, about the best

you can do is take note of the type of habitat they like, take note of where they have been seen and perhaps try and extrapolate on a map, how they might get from one place to another. They do like water. I mean, there are things that I've been able to learn from the sightings over the years. They like water. They like deer. You follow the deer tails and you'll find both the dog man and the Sasquatch. They seem to like the ease of travel that is afforded by roadways. They're attracted to power lines and railroad tracks. You see them more often at crossroads and cemeteries for some reason, military installations. So, you know, there are things. that you can keep in mind when you're looking and thinking, hmm, if I were the dog man right here, where would I go?

Well, there's, you know, a railroad track with power lines and there's water right there. Maybe this would be a good place to do a stakeout or go look. You know, just as a side note, wouldn't it be incredible if we actually had everybody across the U.S.? And let's just, we'll widen the net across the world who has seen anything liken to a wolfman or a big foot to come forward and just, you know, there's no stigma attached anymore and everybody can just be honest with what they saw. Like the amount of information that we could gain, you know, the numbers are out there for what percentage we actually get reports of. And that's our bread and butter, you know, for our research is these reports. and being able to compare the notes. So it's just a side note and a hope, you know,

that more people come forward with this. It would be amazing. And I think that people would be astounded because most people had absolutely no idea how many signings are reported. And they don't have any idea that it's their own relatives and their own neighbors because the people who are seeing them

don't want to be made fun of by their relatives, their neighbors, their coworkers. I can't tell you how. many will say I never told anybody but my husband or my mother about this I tried telling somebody they made fun of me so I've shut up ever since I'm just so glad to be able to talk to someone who isn't crazy you know and it's the same thing as when I worked for I wrote for the newspaper for 10 years after the time that I first broke this story before I stopped writing for the paper and then took a

couple years and then started writing books but there was one story that I did for the newspaper. I don't think I've ever told this anecdote on air, but there is a nudist colony in Walworth County, and it's not too far from Burlington, which actually isn't very far from Bray Road. Oh. It has absolutely nothing to do with that. But I did a story on the nudist colony for the newspaper. Just, I went out there with a photographer, which, It sounds kind of crazy, but the story idea was that we just wanted to know why people enjoy vacationing without clothing and what made them do it and what was so fun about this place and why. You know, it's always been kind of my fatal flaw in my curiosity. You know, I just want to know why these things are.

And what we found, and they didn't mind talking to us. We went out there and the photographer and I, you know, walked around and we said, well, you know, is this something that you tell everybody about? I asked that question to everybody. And not a single person told me that, oh, yeah, all my family knows, all my friends and relatives, no. They would say, no, we don't tell our families. We just tell them we're going camping. A lot of them would only pay and catch so that if for some reason they died and the relatives went to work, look at their finances, they couldn't see that they were checked made out to the nudist colony.

I mean, many of them were going to great lengths, even when they, you know, the neighbors would see them packing. They had certain things they would do so that it just seemed like they would be going to a regular campground. So, I mean, your friends and neighbors could be nudists, and you would have no idea. And it's sort of the same kind of stigma that people feel with having these animal settings. They do not want to be made fun of or looked at differently, and so they keep it to themselves. And I know one well-known producer who's a TV show I was on said that he,

and he'd been looking into these things even longer than I hadn't. He felt it was probably only maybe 3 to 5 percent of the total sightings that are actually reported. Oh, my goodness. And if you think about that, that means the vast majority, That would be like 95%. Incredible. I'd be between 80 and 90. But I don't know.

Again, you're purely guessing at these things. 95 seems high to me for unreported, but I bet he's not too far off. I would probably agree with that. There's still such a stigma attached. And even with all the TV shows that have come out, which honestly, I feel like no matter what they put on air. It brings awareness, so I applaud it. You know, I like the TV shows. And in fact, I wanted to ask you about paranormal witness. Paranormal witness, the TV show, does a pretty good job of trying to stick to the facts, even Travis Walton getting off subject a little bit. But

Travis Walton himself, which, you know, he's from, you know, the UFO field. He was supposedly abducted by aliens. He had the movie firing this guy. He said if you want to see an accurate depiction of what happened to me watch paranormal witness. Now there was an episode called Wolfpack

which is one of my favorite of all time of paranormal witness and I was wondering if you knew offhand how closely they got to what happened to that family in that episode. Yeah I know very well. That came from my book real wolf men to encounters in modern America.

And they did not really admit this other than they had about a three-second cameo of me from the Sean Hannity show right in the very introduction to the book. But no, I pointed them to that story and helped them get in touch with the witness. And, you know, it was originally in the American Monster's book. Now, and the witness, Shelly Martin and her husband, Eric, I've interviewed both of them at great length before this ever went on TV, of course, and it was in my book already and published. So I've got the baseline for what it is. And I know Shelly has openly told many people that it's correct, that I have the correct version of the events with, there were a couple of minor things that, they found were different later.

They had originally told me the wrong date, but that was fixed later on. But other than that, as far as the way the events went, the show, I would say, generally got it pretty right, but they exaggerated things. For instance, they showed them finding these wonderful footprints out in the yard, and anybody watching that would say, well, wow, why didn't they take camera? of those footprints or better pictures. Well, they really weren't footprints. They were impressions in the grass.

And for anybody who doesn't remember or hadn't seen this story, it was a middle-aged couple sitting on their porch just to give you the fast version, turned on their floodlights, which they kept to watch deer by the pond. They were sitting out to drinking coffee like they always do at night. And they saw three upright, wolf-headed creatures coming from one direction and two from the other they were being flanked and the creatures were only 20 feet away and they just managed to get in their house and the creature stayed outside the house all night long they called 911 911 911 told them to call the game warden the game warden told them to lock themselves inside their guns were locked outside of the house so they didn't have any sort of weapons and it was a night long siege and and by the way I have I tried to get that nine report, the Martin's tried to get that 911 report, and the TV producers tried.

And it was not released to any of us. Oh, my goodness. Which is an interesting thing, too. That's very telling, yeah. Yeah, it is. And it's not that they would say we don't have it. It's that while we put it in a written transcript and now we can't find the written transcript, that kind of answer, which is kind of strange. But there are other things in the show.

So for instance, it showed a werewolf crashing through a window, as if Shelly was having a nightmare about that. And she said, that didn't happen. They just said, well, could we show, you know, we're going to show this werewolf crashing through a window. They did not go to bed with axes and knives. They did not crawl in bed with their daughter, who was asleep upstairs. They sort of, the actors who portrayed them, they said the man, you know, acted a lot more fearful than Eric. really did you know so in other words you know it was dramatized it was hyped a little bit they did they did show more they did tell more of the lights that were seen in the

area then I had put in a yes I was more interested in the creature encounter and they made a little bit more of the lights in the beginning which may have in part hype and in part truth you know there was there was more to it the lights that I wrote about. But other than that, other than that, they did a fairly good job, I think.

You know, it's just when you watch any of those shows and they're doing a dramatization, you always have to just imagine that whatever is the highest height of the drama probably had been hyped for ratings purposes. Right. Now, Linda,

one of the encounters from American monsters that I wanted to bring up, that it struck me a little bit. As interesting was the New Mexico Walker from 1974. It was either on or near a Ute reservation. Let's see. Yeah, that was the man that was setting up kind of for a party, and they saw a dog wandering around within a certain distance of them. Right. Yeah, and this actually, it reminded me of sightings that have gotten from Argentina and Central and South America for some reason, where they have, they have the same creatures. They call them the Lobisans. And this one, just the whole flavor of it reminded me of those just as well. And this was in Farmington, New Mexico, near a Ute reservation. And which is sort of reminiscent of, of,

But if you think about it, a Skinwalker Ranch. Yes. Utah was, yeah, near a Ute reservation. But this was early evening. It was kind of like near sundown. So there was still light. And there was a man named Mike and some friends were about to have a barbecue outdoors. And there was an old abandoned Adobe Hut nearby.

And they saw this dog kind of wandering around and didn't think that was unusual, just some kind of stray. when one of the guys noticed that the dog is coming toward them on sore legs and they're kind of like, oh, you probably want some for barbecue or whatever and yelled at it. And when it got yelled at it, it rose up on its hind legs and started running at them on its hind legs. And that was pretty terrifying to them. They ran for the cars and just got out of there. They just didn't even have anybody to deal with that.

Who would? Especially when the right. It's right out in the open, you know, and you have nowhere to hide or go and it appears to be very fast. And he described it as light gray over six feet tall and, you know, appeared very dog-like. So it's hard to tell, you know, and lots of times there are reports that sound more like a shape shifter of some type. And I'm not saying that I totally believe in, I don't believe in the traditional werewolves where you're very atoms of your body and all your corpuscles and all your cell and all your DNA changes from human to wolf and you literally forcibly, you know, grow new bones and grow fangs and grow fur

and lose this and that and, you know, physically. But there may be, and I'm not an occultist, I don't study these things to go into them. But I know enough about it to know there may be ways that you could project, say, your body double or some sort of mental construct that can be materialized outside of your body, either a sort of a creature's suit or to go out ahead of yourself, that kind of thing going on. And there are some forms of that that are benign and others that are not so benign. And when I do get reports like that, very often they're on or near different Native American reservations in this country. And I hear the same sort of association from people who write to me from, say, Argentina or these other countries in South or Middle America. Now, Linda, I have got to get to your own personal experiences. and I would love it if you could go into first your 2006 partial sighting

and then we can move into the one from 2012. Well, 2006, you must be talking about the dogman one in Michigan. Yes. Where are we? Oh, okay. Yeah, and I can't say, I can't say for sure that's where I stop. It is what the witnesses saw at the site we were at. This was a very desolate gravel road, out the middle of nowhere, very near or partly in the Manistee State Forest, which is huge.

It's just a gigantic, vast amount of acreage. And where there are tons of dog man sightings and have been historically since lumbering days. And the witnesses, there were three of them, had seen. on different occasions, a seven foot tall, estimated light gray, fird, upright dog man, and then the other time it was a smaller, they thought maybe six, six and a half feet, dark for dogman. And we had a History Channel cameraman where they're filming for Monster Quest, and we had a spotlight set up on one end of the road. There were some motion detectors with lights.

It was about between 2 and 3 a.m. because that was the time of their sighting, and so we were trying to do an overnight stake out there. And I happened to glance toward where the spotlight was set up. And all night long, we've been seeing pairs of yellow, eyes, peering at us from the bushes. I heard something that sounded like a very large wet dog, shaking out its fur maybe 30 feet from me.

There were things setting off these motion detector lights that were, we'd hear sort of sounds and crashes and footsteps but never saw what it was. And all of a sudden I saw something dashed across the road. All I saw that it was taking care to stay in the shadows as they had all night long. And whatever it was, the spotlight just caught the gray fur on its spine. The spine was vertical, covered with gray fur. And as it crossed the road, it blotted out temporarily a reflective road sign that was there. And when we measured it later, it would have had to have been seven feet tall to have blotted out that road sign.

One of the witnesses also thought the cameraman, unfortunately, his camera pointed the other way. And by the time I could, you know, I mean, it was over the blink of an eye before I could even yell at him to turn around and shoot in my direction. So, of course, we missed it too. At that point, the witnesses got just terrified. They were reliving it, basically, and insisted that we leave. They didn't want to stay any longer after that. And it was, you know, and I thought to myself, could it be a person in a dog suit? Well, it was probably 95 degrees with close to 100% humidity because it was fixing to thunderstorm.

We were, you know, sweating bullets even at 2 and 3 a.m. Throw mosquitoes everywhere, you know. We were, you know, spraying ourselves constantly. And I can't imagine anybody hang out all night in a fur suit in that kind of human hot weather. They would have expired by them, much less have the energy to run across the road that fast. So I like to say that. That's my one partial signing of a dog band, probably the closest, that I've come to actually seeing one. You know, I think I mentioned this on my Sarah and John Brown episode,

but I want to reiterate for people that have actually been out in the woods and maybe you're out and you're specifically looking for a Bigfoot or a wolf man, whatever you might be looking for, I want to reiterate how difficult it is to actually get any footage. And look, you were out with Monster Quest and they had cameras, and it's split seconds that you have. And if you don't happen to be not only trained in the right direction, but you have to literally be holding perfectly still with it at the perfect angle,

and the perfect light to get that shot. So I think that people get a little overly critical. And even just holding it up. You know, I mean, it's just in the time that it takes for you to bring it up and say, you know, you've got to use the cell phone. By the time you, you know, punched a little button on your cell phone. Absolutely. It's gone.

And aim it. It's gone. And if it's, even if it's still there, it's moving usually faster. Right. It's just going to be a blur anyway. You know, and I have spent, there was one incident in Wisconsin, but an hour and a half from where I live, where a very reputable man with a very high government security clearance, I might add, I can't say what he does, but he actually had three or four different sightings right in his own neighborhood in this lake area neighborhood, sort of near the Illinois border. and my friend Kim Poppy and I

spent the whole night driving around in that area because he had seen it close to the wee hours of the morning between one and four and so we went out during those hours and she had borrowed from a relative of hers a police issue night vision camera that should have been able to shoot anything

well we never saw the creature but we were seeing other things. We saw a deer and we saw Fox and right in the ditch, you know, not far away but close by, not even running. And we still couldn't get them to show up on that camera. You know, we were taking turns. So it wasn't that just one of us was a terrible aim or anything. But it is super, super difficult, you know, to.

I think maybe when we've got drones, maybe the glasses with the little camera that you just can, whatever you're looking at, you're automatically aimed and all you have to do is tap the corner of your eyeglasses. You know, maybe that sort of thing will help, but it's almost going to have to be something that split second. Absolutely. Something, that's a great point.

Something as close to your own physical reactions as possible, which I don't, I don't think we're there yet. So that's a really great point. Now, moving on to somewhere that you actually live, which is the Kettle Marine Forest, Um, looking at it on the map, there is obviously plenty of water around to the east. You have, you know, you have like Michigan, you have to the north, northwest, you have Lake, um, is it Winnebago? So they have plenty of water, plenty of protein available. And you actually had a, I love this story.

And I've heard you tell it before. and it happened in 2012 in the Kettlemarina. If you could tell it again, that would be fantastic. Right, yeah. And I live about, I don't know, five to seven miles south of the southern unit, the southernmost area of the southern unit. There's a northern unit too that stretches up northwest of Milwaukee. And together, it's a lot of acreage.

And you have to understand that it's not just like walking through a forest. It's made up of these deeply dug circular kettles, they're called, because they look like the kind of straight-sided kettles that you'd hang over a fire that were left by the last glacier. And then there are ridges between them called moraine. So that's why it's called the Kettle Moraine. And you can walk around on the ridges. And most of the trails through the parks and the campgrounds and everything

are on these ridges. because to go down in the paddles can be very treacherous. They can be very steep. They're gravelly, so you can slide. They're full of brambles and poison ivy and things like that. So the trails are actually a very small amount of total park footage, you know, that most of it's down in these strange formations. And there are lots of them around here,

and there's a place where it was actually near private property, more in a neighborhood type place, where I like to just go take casual walks, you know. So I wasn't like dressed with the woods. I did not have a camera. I was just, it was a Sunday evening. Most of these were, I knew weekend homes, and I knew that the people were gone, so it was very quiet.

And I just thought, I'm just going to go out for a quick walk and just walked out my door and went to this area. without a camera or anything else on me. Just because I thought I was going to do this and come back. I'm walking along. I'm looking down on these kennels as I'm walking along the ridge. And I noticed there was a set of saplings, three saplings that I did not remember seeing them like this before.

They had been bent over kind of like a rainbow formation and somehow fastened to the ground. And I thought, that's not right. You know, that's, and it's nothing. you can imagine a human doing. This happened to be on an acreage that didn't have a house. It was a larger acreage that bumped up to other cattle formations that kind of stretched on up into the park proper,

although it was outside the park itself. And I thought, I'm just going to, for once in my life, I'm going to try bay on a tree, you know, and I knew about that. I had just never done it. I was always sort of doubtful if it would really get results. But I thought, I saw that. Nobody's around.

Nobody's going to know if I do this or hear me. I'll just go off the trail about 10 feet. And I did that. And I banged a few times and then to my utter complete shock and terror, I'll send me back. And it was a clear wood knock and it wasn't off in the distance. It was down in the kettle closest to me, a rather steep kettle. And I could hear something moving around down there.

And I thought, okay, whatever it is, test. to have an opposable thumb if it's holding a stick and hitting something. And that means it's either a human or it's a big foot. And if it's a big foot, by gosh, I want to see it. And it was down, you know, whatever it was down there. And then I could hear it moving around in the tree. It sounded like it was climbing the tree or something at one point. But I could see foliage moving every once in a while.

And so I hit it again. I got another reply. And I'm thinking, wow, can really want to do this. But I was just too curious to leave the area. And I was reasoning that I was really only about 10 feet off the main trail and that I could get back on it and run somewhere before it could come up and get me, you know, and not even thinking. I know Bigfrior said to move a lot faster than that, but I was sort of rationalizing.

Like, yeah, I really, really want to see what this is. So the next time I hit it, and I had heard more noises down there. You know, I could definitely see foliage moving, and it was moving up in the tree. And this was July, so it was very thickly wooded. And this particular tree where I was seeing movement was a very big old oak tree, but living, had dense foliage, lots of leaves, which is why I couldn't really see, you know, what was behind them, whatever it was keeping itself very well hidden. But there was a branch that would have been sticking kind of perpendicular to my position,

a very large branch. And there was a sudden crack after my final wood knock. And I was answered with this branch being twisted at a 45 degree angle until it pointed almost straight at me. Now, this tree was growing up from the side of the kettle near the bottom so that this branch was somewhere between 30 and 40 feet up the tree, but it was at my eye level from where I was standing on the ridge. And there was no way, I mean, I've seen branches fall, we've lived around these woods, you know, for 23 years. I've seen branches fall, usually in the winter, usually during or after a storm. I know the sound they make, but they don't go

horizontally when they first fall. Right. That doesn't happen. Absolutely. And so, you know, something just caught in my throat. And I don't know if I was thinking clearly or what. I thought, I think my instinct was to wham the tree again so it would know that I wasn't afraid, which was stupid because I was afraid.

I just didn't know what else to do. Right. And then in the next crack, the branch, and I still couldn't see what was doing. it, but the branch tore completely away from the tree. I could see the twisted wood. It looked fresh and drops 40 feet to the bottom of the kettle below. At that point, and now this was, I know from later measuring it, this was not a tiny little thing.

This was a 35-foot long branch with green leaves growing on it that wasn't dead. That was between 7 and 9 inches diameter. kind of depending on how you measure it. So it was big. And when I saw that, I knew without a doubt what did it because it was far enough up in the tree. It wouldn't be very difficult for a human to climb up there. There weren't a lot of lower branches.

And the brute strength that it took, the pounds per square inch, to tear a living oak branch from a tree like that and rip it and twist it and then pull it all the way off and send it sailing down. going down and it wasn't like I heard any song going, you know. Right.

And I did. I went home, you know, I went home, but I didn't stay home. I called a friend and she and her daughter came and we went back down there in half an hour because I had to know for myself. Yes.

Whether a pilated woodpecker had been there. We have woodpeckers in those woods or whether there were saw marks or whether it was rotten, you know, or showed storm damage or something like that. And it didn't. None of those was just the fresh wood twisted. I have lots of pictures. And in fact, you can see some pictures. If you go to www.com, it's a WordPress blog, and then there are other pages too.

There's a frequently asked questions page. But if you go to my blog, you can scroll back to July 2012 that I titled it, The Big branch and I wrote that right after the account and I left out the part about the branch coming horizontally at me because I thought at the time nobody's ever going to believe this I can't put this in here I was torn as to whether I should even put it in there at all so I did put that back in the book version because that's literally that's actually that yeah that's a significant part of the story and that actually it it kind of raises the hackles on you it kind of like that is not a normal thing at all.

No, no. And if you look at the photos I've got, you could see how it had to have been twisted that way. Well, when we went down, we went down in the kettle. We went around to a broader slope in the back of it, and we went down there, and not only did we measure it and find that there were no woodpecker holes, there was no saw marks, no indication that a human had done it,

and on the branch itself, very clearly, and they were sort of diagonally opposed to one another, on either side of the bank or the branch as if something had bent over and had to hold it with one arm farther outstretched. There were two bark rubs that were vaguely mitten-shaped about nine inches long, one on either side where the bark had been completely crumpled off by the pressure it had exceeded. And I actually have one of the pieces that came off almost whole from that. And you can see, it looks just like if you put your hand flat on the paper and

crumpled the paper, you know, where the knuckles would raise up. And I had my husband put his hand on it. And it had been handsome. My friend's daughter just picked it up, so it already got the DNA. Because people are going, oh, no, why did she put it in a plastic bag and save it? Well, it was already completely contaminated by handling by that point. But he put his hand on it, and his hand was smaller, of course, than this was. But you could see where the anatomy fit perfectly of a hand crumpling.

this thing. And it smelled. There was a complete odor of skunk-ish monkey, not monkey, excuse me, skunk-ish, but not skunk-like, musk-ish is what I meant to say, and combined with the tree sap and something like sweet grass. It was weird, and it was very, very pungent. And that made us really nervous because it was like it kind of appeared. And so we scrambled back up because it was starting to get close to sundown and you do not want to get caught down in one of those kettles at night. Anything could get you before you could get out. And we stood up there in the ridge looking toward the back segment of kettles that butted up to it. And my friend's daughter actually had a visual.

She saw the creature running into, and this is a 21-year-old young lady, very. And a skeptic, by the way. And a skeptic did. And not knowledgeable. I mean, she just said there was nothing she's ever paid any attention to. And she screamed and she said she saw it running behind this thick wall of foliage in an adjacent kettle to our left. And of course, by the time Sandra and I turned our heads, it was out of sight. And we were not about to go.

It was just a pyramid near a wall of a kettle. There was nowhere to go but up. And so I was about to try that. And just as we're standing there, craning our neck, it growled at us. And the growl was the convincing thing. I mean, it's just about, you know, made you lose control of everything.

I didn't know if people talk about having possible infestown. I can see that because it was such a low-pitched growl. And coming from something that you knew had enormous lungs, it wasn't anything ordinary. I heard bears growl in the wild. My dad's from Price County way up north.

I spent a lot of time as a kid up there and seen bears in the wild camped. with bears outside my tent. It was not a bear. It was nothing, and we're not supposed to have bears around here either, quote, unquote, although there are one now and then. But it made you know that it was time to leave, and so we did. And it was interesting because I think that it followed me home.

For the next month or two, I'd be sitting in my office at night, and there'd be little pebbles and sticks hitting my window when there was no wind or nothing out there. And I've since seen, and it was interesting, the fur collar of this one was what they call a blonde. She described it as a very light-based gray combination, and she said it was much of her husband here, and she knew that because when she and her mother drove up to meet me there, they saw several deer come running for their lives out of that kettle, which is another clue. And she noted that they were sort of reddish-brown color. They were, you know, a dark, that's the color they are that time of year around here.

And she said, this was much lighter than deer, plus it was bigger than a human. It was on a tiny leg. And she said, I want to say striding because it wasn't running, but it was moving really fast. You know, which is pretty much a perfect big-foot description. She only saw the back of its head because it was just disappearing into that foliage. But she said it was, you know, had the human shape. But she was pretty shaken by it. So, yeah.

So that was my encounter. And I've had fleeting glimpses since then of, again, parts. And in an area, not exactly that area, but another area where I, often walk that, again, is in the general vicinity. There are a couple of adjacent fields that have wooded kettles right sort of in the middle of the fields. And I've had the experience different times from, actually, from last spring until just maybe the latest one was just actually a few weeks ago, where at one time I was walking past a field and probably no more than 200 feet away from me, I saw this big round furred, blackford head sticking off on this high

weeds. The weeds were probably three and a half, four feet tall. And as soon as it saw me looking at it, the head slowly moved back down into the weeds. And there was nothing else that could have been. There were no ears on it. It was way too big to be a crane or, you know, something like that. It wasn't a bear. And what moves vertically slowly down and then just remains? I saw a giant stump a little farther than that way, maybe 400 feet, something like that, in a field that had been mowed. And it's a field that I go by all the time,

and there are usually lots of, there's lots of wildlife that hangs out there. So I always slow down because I don't want to hit a deer. and I had slowed down with driving paths, and I noticed this very big, very unusually shaped stump right out there. And I noticed it because it was bigger, it was a soft, dark, black color, stood up on the ground.

I could see, you know, the bottom edges of it. And I knew it couldn't have been turkeys. It couldn't have been anything because it was stock still. And I thought, well, that's weird. Why would the farmer leave a big stump right out there where we plant the corn. And then I thought, wait a minute, I know this field. There is no stump there.

And right about the time I thought that, I had just kind of passed the line of sight, and I stopped the car, backed up. And in those few couple of seconds, this had been located about 40 feet, I'd say, from one of these kettlewoods that punctuate these fields. It was gone. It had to have run 40 feet into those kettlewoods

in those couple of seconds when I backed the car. Wow. It was completely gone. There was no more big stump. So, you know, and I've had several other partial ones. Those are the best, the best. But it's something that, and I actually have seen the foot of a big foot sticking out from a tree on a cattle trail. So, I mean, you walk through the park.

Yeah. And this was, I had a friend, an investigator, Ben Peveler, was with me walking through the woods. And I just happened to see it. It was very close. He happened to be looking the other way. By the time I go, it was, and it had withdrawn. And again, as soon as I lost eyes on it,

it very slowly and carefully and methodically lifted up and placed itself back behind the tree. And there was foliage behind it. It was sort of at the edge where deciduous meant the coniferous forest. So it evidently backed into that deciduous part. But when it lifted up, I could see separation of the big toe. It was covered with dark, dark charcoal gray fur on top.

And I could see the leathery gray bottom of the foot pad when it lifted up. Not the whole thing, of course, you know, but just, you know, the front of the toes and part of it. And then set itself behind the tree. And it was human foot shape, but way, way, way too big to be a human foot. I did that that I um

about a year and a half ago something like that you have a fantastic area out there Yuri well it's just yeah I'm lucky I'm just

I just happen to be lucky to where I live I don't think people you know in reading your encounter in your book people don't realize the significance of

you know this huge branch and you can see the picture of it you have posted like as you said on your website and and in your book there's pictures of it of it coming horizontally towards you and then it gets ripped off and then it drops to the ground it is that's significant that's a significant encounter and that incorporated with the wood knocks and then the the smell that you had up to 30 40 minutes after the encounter because you guys had gone back that's significant So, fantastic.

Not to mention the bark rubs. The hand rubs, yes. The hand rubs, I went around. I thought, well, this is a natural thing. They should be visible on other branches that were just naturally lying around here. I looked at every fallen branch and there was none, nothing like that on any of them. And also the visual verification by Natalie. Right.

I remember reading that. that you still had the stick in hand. And once the branch eventually fell, you realize, I mean, within probably a few seconds, that it was a living branch. And, you know, which makes this very strong and very hard to rip off of a living tree. And you were out of there, which I would hope that most people would do. And it's very significant. Right.

And think about this. The alternative is that. If it was just, let's say, that branch is time to fall from the tree, which I don't know why it would be because there was nothing, it was a perfectly healthy thick branch. But let's say somehow it was that branch of time to fall from the tree, what guided me to suddenly go stand there and be looking right at it? When there wasn't another branch moving or even a leaf rustling anywhere, and we hadn't had storms for, weeks at least. You know, I mean, there was no reason for something to be

falling like that and nothing else moving in the woods anywhere. You know, it was completely, it wasn't like branches were falling in trees. It were, you know, falling over and the wind was blowing. It was nothing like that. It was a perfectly still summer evening and all of a sudden

clam, clam, clam. That's just not normal. Absolutely not. Now, Linda, what is coming up next for you? I know you already mentioned the book that's coming out, but what else are you doing right now? Well, I'm working on a number of active investigations and interviews. I just seem to have had some incredible reports that really need more in-depth work and interviews.

I've been doing that. have an ongoing investigation at a private property in southeastern Wisconsin where for over a year we've been placing deer carcasses that are legally gathered. The property owner lives in Illinois and gathers them in Illinois, transports them in his own truck to his own land, so they're completely legal. and observing what happens. And we have a lot of really interesting things going on. So I'm just sort of juggling,

keeping track of different sites and investigations and going places when I can and then trying to take careful records and get this next book written because it's due to beginning of August. So I've got a tighter deadline than I did for my last one. This is another one for our Tarture Penguin and now it's Tartier Penguin slash Random Hosses since they combine.

So, yeah, so that, what, what, what, what I'm doing is geared toward this book. And this book is, is going to take a different slant than the other ones have. I think people will be really interested. Probably will, people will either love it or hate it. You know, I'm prepared for some strong reactions to it. But, and I would like to emphasize, too, that when I say I'm doing investigations, I'm going out. I'm not hunting in the literal sense.

You know, I'm not out there. I don't believe in killing something when you don't know what it is. There are other things. I mean, people forget that there are dangerous known animals and dangerous humans and things like that that can be out in the woods, you know. And I don't blame anyone for preparing themselves for something like that. Or if you're being attacked by something. and you know you're physically going to be dead if you don't defend yourself.

But I'm not, when some of my books say hunting or whatever, I'm literally not going out hunting things and, you know, trying to hunt a dog man or hunt a big foot by any means. That's not at all. My ideal capture is on a camera or a video. And that would be my dream. Well, Linda, I surely appreciate you coming on. as I know my listeners do.

And I just want to say that, you know, I'll make sure to plug all of your, you know, your website, your books, and everywhere everyone can find you, you know, coming up in the near future. I know that you're going to have a lot of more projects coming up. So thank you so much. Well, thank you for having me. It was a pleasure. And if people do have questions or they want to contact me, Linda Godfrey.com is the place.

You can go to the blog or several pages on it and probably find out more than you want to know. Oh, never. Thanks, Linda. You're welcome. Thanks again so much, Shannon. It's been a pleasure. You too.

Bye-bye. Bye-bye. So everyone, you can learn more about Linda and her work at Linda Godfrey.com. and you can also find her on Facebook and Twitter. And of course, visit the entire Saskron team at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. Next week, Lon Strickler and Sean Forker will be on with us. Until then, keep up the search. Across the country faster than the coronavirus and wagering week is your antidote.

I'm Tom Barton and I'm a veteran sports analyst and respected sports handicapped. who helped build ESPN's brand. I've been recognized and awarded by Pro Football Weekly and Gaming Today magazine as the honest handicapper. Let the other guys give you the same old boring sports talk with the same tired storylines. We'll give it to you straight here every Friday on Wagering Week. Don't gamble with other podcasts.

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