Sasquatch Chronicles - Show Notes with Shannon-Patty in Slow Motion and Stories from Washington State

Episode Date: February 17, 2015

On this edition, Dave Hallet is sharing one of his interviews done with Chris, from Washington State. Chris was present for a lecture by the late Dr. Grover Krantz, who gave his insight into the Patterson-Gimlin film. He will also tell of a couple of experiences he had in Washington State. 

Welcome to Show Notes with Shannon LaGrope. Give her a call at 646-716-8-7-9-1. Good evening and welcome to Show Notes. I hope you all had a very nice weekend. We here at Saskron are getting ramped up for our trip next month, and we hope to bring back, as Wes mentioned perfectly compelling and supporting evidence. and I wanted to send a thank you to everyone who sent me emails about Foxfire, which is something that John brought up on my last show. And I absolutely feel like I now could call it for what it is by name confidently if I ever saw it in the bush.

So thank you guys. Everybody's very on top of it out there. And I appreciate that. And also a friendly reminder, if you want to share. encounter or beyond the show, contact any one of us, Wes, Will, or Shannon at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. Now, tonight was supposed to be my shiny new co-host, Dave Hallett's big debut, but unfortunately he has a wicked case of the flu. I did in fact speak to him earlier on the phone. And the closest I can liken it to is if the ghost

of Christmas future from Scrooge, you know, the one with the Quato-like beings from Total Recall in his stomach cavity. Yeah, if that character from Scrooge had any speaking lines, he probably would have sounded just like Dave did today. And I'm not making fun of him because that is exactly what I sounded like not too long ago. So Dave, feel better. And we will be more than ready for you next week. Speaking of, we will have Linda Godfrey on the next episode. But tonight, I am going to play a pre-recorded interview that Dave did with Chris from Washington State. Now, Chris was a student of Dr. Grover Krantz at Washington State University. And during one of the classes, Grover Krantz played the Patty film in slow motion, and he explained why to him that couldn't be a man in a suit.

To him, it absolutely was not Bob Hieronymus in a suit. So Chris will go through that, and then he will also tell of some experiences he had in Washington State. and this interview runs just about an hour, and then I'll touch base with you guys on the flip side of that. And I think it'll be a good opportunity for those of you who haven't heard Dave on his Bigfoot Ground Zero podcast to just kind of get an idea of his interview style. His is probably, you know, different than mine, but that's okay. I think we're going to mess well together.

so I will let Dave and Chris take it away. Quick intro, just like our phone call, man, and we'll just talk about it, and you can walk us through everything, and I'll answer questions, and it'll be just like we did before. Okay. All right, cool.

All right, so. All right, so we have on the phone, Chris, first to contact, and let's do that again. All right, so on the phone with this, Hello, can hear me? Sorry, you cut out for a second. Oh, good God. I don't know why this is doing that.

I honestly did not know why. I hear you get really good right now. But, uh, I know. Just, yeah. Yeah, if we have to do this again, we'll do it sometime. But let me see. I'm in an area where there's bad cell reception no matter what. I'm on a friend's house mom.

I'm like literally drove to a parking lot to see if the reception was better. So, all right. So, all right, we'll try this again. All right. So I asked for me. All right. So Chris contacted the show. about a week ago.

He and I got in touch, and he had had an experience or two with regard to tracks. No Class A sightings, but there was definitely activity in and around the camp. He was out with his son years ago. But what interested me the most, not that those weren't significant, but what interested me was the fact that Chris was a student of the late Professor Grovercrans at Washington State University. Now, for those of you who are in the Bigfoot community, who have done even a modicum of research, know that Professor Krantz was espousing certain things about Bigfoot's gait, you know,

certain ways that movement, especially with regard to the Patterson-Gimlin film, kind of solidified the fact that most likely we were looking at a Bigfoot creature. And this was before Dr. Maldrum and some of the other folks that are doing research right now and moving forward. And that's not to discredit any of them in any way. But I wanted to get from Chris kind of a perspective on the lecture that he received, kind of how Professor Krantz approached the subject and also kind of what he got from it. So, Chris, you on the line? Yes. All right.

So take us through if you don't mind. You know, give us the lead in into, you know, who Professor Krantz was, you know, the type of professor he was. And the – just how he covered the topic of Bigfoot. I know it was one long lecture. It was one subject, wasn't a whole semester or anything. But, yeah, just kind of lead us in that, and I'll ask some questions, and we'll go from there. Okay. Yeah, well, at the time, it was 1992, and I was 19.

And I was interested in the subject of Bigfoot, but I wouldn't say it was on my mind very much and it was kind of on the fence. And I, you know, I was a history and anthropology major in college and I had to take Anthro 101 and it was Grover Krantz. I had no idea that he was into the Sasquash thing or anything when I took that class. And about halfway through the semester, it just was kind of a surprise. He devoted one lecture on the subject of Sasquatch. Impression of him, he was just a no-nonsense professor. He wasn't very comical or he wasn't real personable, actually. It was just, it was a teacher-student-type relationship.

Very, I don't know, I don't know the word, say, but he wasn't, you know, very dry, just kind of told the facts of what he found. And essentially, you know, my impression then, I was like, this is a really smart guy and I need to listen to him. Okay, sure. Yeah. So, yeah, he, the lecture was really cool because what it did for me, it really brought, a science-based fact to the subject, whereas before all I had one experience with my dad when I was really small, we found some tracks, and then all the TV shows I've been on in search

of and stuff, the stuff that's been sensationalized. But guys, my first time meeting someone who's a legitimate professor at a state university saying, no, wait, there's something to this subject. There's some hard evidence here that needs to be taken seriously. And that's, you know, that's what his lecture did for me. It brought some, oh, it validated the subject for me at that age. Sure. Whereas before it was more kind of like, oh, it's cool to think that, yeah, maybe there's a

Sasquach out there in the wood or something and all that. But this was like, okay, yeah, there's actually a critter out there, leaving tracks and doing things, leaving physical evidence, you know, of his existence that the rest of science wants to ignore. Did he now, let me ask a question, if you don't mind. During the lecture, did he address things like, well, here's why we haven't found the body, you know, here's what I think and where and how they live. Did he have a hypothesis on these things?

Or did he just stick to kind of knowing what he knew because of certain solid stacks? Like how did that go to lecture itself? He touched on those. He addressed some of the main criticisms. You know, and it's in his book because, you know, at the time his book, big footprints was coming out, come out also. And he addresses all those issues in that book. but he also he touched on everything

kind of in the left or two like you know he he pointed out the fact how many times do you go out in the woods and find a bear or a cougar skeleton you don't find apex predator skeletons

you know and he was the first person to really enlighten me to the fact that hey this thing's probably nocturnal you know and it just just stuff that

I didn't think about before because it was easy to dismiss the subject before until he kind of said, well, let's look at this with a little more science and common sense that, yeah, there can be a critter out there that's nocturnal and living, you know, bears do live, do a lot of activity at night and cougars and stuff.

And, you know, I've, you know, I've been a high life and I've only seen one there. Sure. Do you think, well, let me ask you this question then, too. So what did the rest of the class kind of take from that? I mean, I'm trying to know, you know, in college, you know, you're going to go to class. You don't really have, you know, you're there to learn. It's not like you've got friends in every class.

But what do they take away from it, do you think? What was the discussion after that? I didn't really talk to anybody in the class. I was excited and I noticed some of the guys were really listening. to them, but there were a lot of girls in the class that were kind of chit-chat between each other and not really listening to them. I remember that much. Yeah.

Because if you weren't into the subject, he was kind of dry. It was, it wasn't, he was just a straightforward, here's what I know. This is what it is type of guy with all, everything he talked about. while I had that class. So unless you were into the subject, you know, a lot of people, I'm sure, were bored in that class. Did you? Yeah, no, I know.

Filling a requirement, I get it. So what, so if you had a chance to talk to him right now, or, you know, maybe you thought about this, is there a question that you thought, God, I wish I could have asked them this question, and I didn't, or is there anything kind of lingering from that? And that might not be, but I'm just curious. Wow.

I wouldn't necessarily say I had a question. I didn't tell him about the tracks that I found with my dad, and I wish I had had that conversation with him just to maybe learn more from him. Because I'd actually gone after that lecture, I went and bought his book, and then I went back to his office a week or so later and met him in his office and got him to sign the book.

And I was so nervous. And, you know, I'm usually a pretty shy guy. I'm not like back then I was too. I'm not outgoing. So he kind of intimidated. He was a tall guy too. I'm not very tall. And so I went into the big bad professor's office and got him to sign my book.

And I bought a one of a copy of a cast. He got out of the Blue Mountains from his track collection for 10, bucks and um you know i was nervous and i wish i had talked to him more about my experience and maybe um what what he's found and stuff but i didn't i just kind of went in and we found my book professor and yeah can i buy a track too and and and that was it so yeah it's really weird when you meet somebody whatever field you're in uh of interest you know if you're musician you meet rock stars and that sort of thing it kind of it's hard to just relax and and uh you know be yourself around them.

You know, I get that. I would like to think that I would have pulled up a chair opposite of his desk and said, okay, I'm going to give you 10 minutes of my time now. You don't know. But the reality is probably wouldn't have done it. If I met him today, you know, if he was still alive, oh, yeah, I'd love to have a conversation with him just about what I've experienced now and just everything that he's worked on, you know.

because really no go ahead no no I was going to ask you have you read anything else any of his other work because I know he has other material out there I think I've seen it online and it doesn't come to mind but have you done any other research on some of the stuff he's done

past history or anything like that that you're going to lighten us with because again you were the one that met with him and I know this is kind of a secondhand thing and we're not interviewing Professor Krantz but is there anything you've read that you learned that you didn't know from his lecture that you can kind of enlighten us on? And again, it doesn't have to be anything, but I'm just curious. The only thing that I ever read was a book Big Footprints.

And like I said, the lecture was basically an overview of that book. And I didn't know he had other works out there. I'm going to have to get online and look for him because I honestly, I, after that, I was 19 in college, and that was a great semester and stuff, but I didn't really get back into the subject again until just, you know, in the last six years or so. Yeah, it's really interesting because when I think of what he did as far as research, and, you know, a lot of it was theory based on, you know,

what you could see in the Patterson-Gimlin film. And in a minute, I want to ask you about what his take-weil, was on that because you had mentioned that and it was really interesting because he had some of the insight into the gate, the stride, all these things that were happening, muscle tone and that sort of thing before anybody ever did. And before we were able to digitally enhance all of these things. And I just feel like when we're talking about Professor Krantz, we're talking about a guy that, again, everything's being proved out that he talked about. And I feel like everything that we're discovering now,

he had a hypothesis on what it was. And I just feel like he was kind of way ahead of his time. I mean, do you agree with that, or am I kind of like idolizing this guy? Oh, no. Yeah, totally.

I see my view on him is he was kind of pioneer into the subject with facts. He wasn't going, he didn't want, he wasn't going into any supernatural stuff or he was looking at the subject with just

pure science and that's what impressed me so much about him. He was the first person personality that I ever came in contact with that took the subject seriously and looked at it as a scientist would not you know

not as someone looking to sensationalize the subject for whatever purposes. Sure. Yeah and when I got back in kind of, you know, it's about six years ago. I really got back into, you know, reading about Sasquatch and stuff. You know, I basically, after college, it's just life went on as normal,

and I did what everybody else does. And then, you know, it's just recently I got back into the subject. And it, I knew, I think it was, when I heard Dr. Prants had died, as I started reading some stuff and I was like, wait, these guys, they're talking about everything that's in big footprints. And you know, Dr. Jeff Meldrum, I know they knew each other and they had context. And I know Meldrum's got a lot of what Krantz had. I mean, a lot of his prints and the giganticis skull that Krantz recreated, rebuilt from the jaw.

What you actually saw, correct? Yeah, it was in the lecture. He had it there in the lecture. That skull that's on all the TV shows now that Dr. Meldrum has, that's grown cramps built that. And he actually talked about where he got his dimensions from using just that front jaw bone to create that skull. And I don't, you know, I can't remember exactly all the details, but, you know, he was an expert on bipedal motion and physical anthropology, so he knew how to take ratios of size from different bones to recreate the rest of the bone

structure and that, you know, he recreated that whole skull for gigantic physicists. Yeah, and you can, you know, police do that for missing persons. They'll try to resets something in their fine bones and that sort of thing. So it's definitely a proven science. What I want to know, and if I'm out there in the audience, I'm saying to myself, come on, come on, get to it, get to it. It's the Patterson Gimlin film.

Now, he actually showed that to you guys and kind of broke that down as far as the local motion of the creature and some of the physical characteristics. Can you describe that just from a student standpoint what he went through? Okay. Up until that, before that lecture, I'd seen that famous clip that was on in search of shows and all that. Right. And I remember as a kid, he, with my parents, and my parents said, that's a guy in a monkey suit. And even though, you know, I was on the fence of the subject, I believed that that was a fake.

I was like, that's a fake, that's a guy in a monkey suit, you know, it looks fake. Right, right. And when I took that class or that lecture, totally completely changed my mind. First off, what the media doesn't tell you, the clip they play were playing on TV at that time and stuff, it's not showing real-time speed. It's the film's being shown at a faster speed. Krantz had an original copy. He slowed it down to real-time speed. And when you watch that animal move at the speed it's supposed to be going,

it takes on a whole new look. It doesn't look so goofy. Okay. You know, and that was really what kind of lit me up. It's like, maybe it's got something. And then he went on to talk about many other aspects about it. the way the body moved, he explained that no human being could move like that, or would move like that.

You know, the way it turns, it can't turn its neck because the jaw would run into the shoulder. The stride, as he said, the kind of the way, the angle of, the how far it raises up its lower legs is different than ours. I don't remember all of it, but he just went, the way he described it was by the end of that, that part of the lecture, I was convinced that, okay, that's a real animal. That's, you know, and some things that really, I remember that really stuck out for me was, he pointed out, the things got breasts.

Right, right, right, I was just going to say that. How many, how many, how many, how many, how many, how, how many, I remember, that really stuck out for me, was, he pointed out. hoaxers in 1967 are going to think to put breasts on their

monkey suit. That's just off the wall. And then he also pointed out that at

that time the leading special effects outfit was Disney. And Disney at that

time said they couldn't recreate what is on that film. And like you,

you know, he pointed out stuff like that and it just, for him, I wait you know I really wish I had had a tape recorder at the time and recorded that

lecture but I didn't right right but he went into great detail on the locomotion of that critter and it just it it totally changed my mind on that film I absolutely believe that's a real animal in that film yeah I believe in the concept of fin slicing and there's a book out there that talks about, you know, how you trust your gut to make decisions. And when you go against your gut, that's usually when you're wrong. At the time I saw that film, all those things jumped out of me. I said, well, this thing has breasts. Like you went right into it and you looked at it. When you watch it swing its arms, it's to look at the hands. The hands are long and pointed like long fingers, like you would see like I'm an ape. If you go back and look at it,

it's almost like it's wearing mittens or something. And I'm looking at it. Well, the guy in a suit, they're not going to think to do that. I think those hands are like, like, a lot different, more club-like. And I'm with you. When I saw that, you know, and I started thinking about it. I'm like, that, my gut tells me that that is real. And what else is amazing is, and I'll get to your sighting in a minute, is everything you're telling me about that lecture and everything you're telling me about what his research

and kind of some of the insight he gave into what might be as far as fast watch goes, I'm almost listening to some of the quote-unquote professionals. I'm almost listening in my head as they're talking on the history channel and Discovery Channel and, you know, outdoor life and all these interviews about Bigfoot. They sound like they're just kind of mimicking Grover Krantz. And I'm not trying to piss anybody off out there, but do you get that sense, too? Oh, yeah. It's definitely, I have a biased opinion.

I'm a total fan of Grover Krantz. And for me, having, you know, 20 plus years ago, been in that class and then go through life and not really be into the subject of Sasquatch for a long time for those doing that was getting married, having kids and stuff like that. Sure. And not long ago, get back into the subject, start reading the new stuff that's out. You know, my first impression is everybody's stealing girl crances stuff. But it's not, and I'm not saying that everybody's stealing. Grover Francis stuff, but he, you know, really, he, in my opinion, and this is just my opinion, he's the first real scientist to approach this subject as a scientist.

Right. And that's, that's my, you know, my opinion. Well, you've got guys like, you've got guys for him, you've got guys like Renee DeHinden, and some of those folks that were doing it. You know, he had a sighting, and he pretty much dedicated his life to that. I don't think he had a scientific background. I'm sure somebody will correct me in email. Probably they're already writing about it.

But I don't think he had a scientific background, but he was very pragmatic in the way he approached it. Right. I just feel like we need more people like that in the Bigfoot community these days because anybody with a camera and a recorder, you know, seems to be a quote-unquote expert. Oh, yeah. You got your armchair YouTube people that break down all these

new clips and old clips and do their own quote-unquote investigation online and then post the mechanics of stuff on YouTube. Well, yeah, I've seen that. I've seen some of these breakdown people. I won't, you know, I'm not going to crap on anybody because it's surfing. Right. But the problem is it's all this analysis and nobody will take a stand. This is what I think, but also this.

And, well, what did I just spend 20 minutes of my life just watching? So as far as YouTube goes, I'm kind of over the fact that, you know, people pass the same video around to all the pages on Facebook, you know, the business page on Facebook. If I try to keep that stuff off, the Bigfoot Ground Zero fan page, do you like how I just plug that? Yeah, yeah. What I want to do, though, right now is, you got interested in the subject again. Why do you bring us through the experience that you had when you were a kid with your father? And then bring us through what had happened when you were camping with your son, because those are compelling. And I think it's funny that your lecture with Professor Krantz kind of is surrounded by these other experiences.

I mean, you've got more invested in this than a lot of people. So I'm going to shut up, and I'm just going to back up a bit here and kind of let you talk about those experiences. Okay. Um, well, when, let's see, my parents, uh, um, had a cabin in Packwood, Washington, which is up off of Highway 12 near White Pass, uh, near Mount Rainier. Um, and when I was, I'm, I'm guessing seven or eight, uh, me, you know, me and my dad and my little sister, we were up there in the spring. I'm, I know it was springtime and we're, in the hills above pack wood cutting wood for the

for the cabin and you know at the time that's when all the in search of we're talking in the late 70s early 80s

the insurch of show came out and I remember I was a little kid I really it kind of freaked me out and I and I'd

watched all those Bigfoot stuff so I was aware of what Bigfoot was and stuff back then but we were Anyways, we were up in the hills and we come to a fresh clear cat,

and there's a perfect view of packwood down below the valley. And my dad got out and he wanted to take pictures of it. And I got out of the truck and we're snooping around. And there was still a little bit of snow. Everything was kind of melting, a little bit of snow, a lot of mud. And I noticed some tracks coming up the road. And then they kind of dove down the steep, embankment into the clear cut, the side of the clear cut,

that several of the tracks were distinctively had toes in them, and they're large, very large. And I remember yelling, Dad, Dad, come here, Bigfoot. And my dad came over, and like I told you before, my dad's the biggest skeptic in the world. He does not believe in anything but hard science. you know and so he came over and he looked at the tracks and I'm like look dad bigfoot and he's probably a hunter and I pointed out well she's a hunter daddy's hunting barefoot and it's the wrong season you know and his reaction was getting the truck and so I did and we left later you know back of the cabin. I was playing

with my G.I. Joe for years around the Woods Cove, and my dad had gone over to the neighbors, and the neighbor was an older couple that lived up there whole time. He came back and he goes, you know, those tracks are still bothering, and me and Clarence, we'll go up there and check them out tomorrow.

And it doesn't bother me, Dad. They're Bigfoot tracks. Right, right, right. And, you know, And he just, well, you know, it could have been a hunter's track. And because one of the tracks was, it was in mud and snow. There was the, where the toes were, there was snow. And he started, well, it probably expanded because of the snow and this and that. But there were several tracks in the mud where you could see the toes.

And I was like, whatever, Dad, I didn't care. I knew what it was, you know. I was a little kid. And I was like, we found Bigfoot tracks. And like I said, my dad, the biggest skeptic in the world. world, it obviously bothered him. So, you know, I had that, I had that experience, and I was a,

that was one of the little kid. And it didn't make you feel, when you were, when you were little, if I could just interject for a quick, it didn't make you feel, well, two things. It didn't make you feel afraid at that point to go in the woods, and they don't kind of go together, but I got to ask a question, how far apart

were the strides? Do you remember? I have no clue. I can't remember at all. No, I wasn't, I wasn't scared or anything. I was, like, more excited. It was cool. And I'd ask my mom, I was like, and before this,

because we'd watched some of the Bigfoot shows that Leonard Nimoy was the, the commentator on and stuff. And I'd ask my mom, I remember we were driving up to, we were driving up to the cabin one day, and it was night, and we were going through Randall. I was like, Mom, do you think there's a Bigfoot out there? And I remember my mom, said, well, anything's possible, you know, There's a lot of untouched wilderness out here. And I remembered that conversation.

So it was, I never, I didn't have a fear of Bigfoot then at all. Yeah. So you, so take it through your next experience. And then I'll ask you a couple of questions after that regarding research and some of the things that you, you know, which people were doing or some kind of ideas that you have. But you've got a second experience that you had later in life, obviously, when you had your son.

but frame what you guys were doing, you know, leading up to it and kind of what had happened. And just so you folks know, there were multiple happenings in a very short time. And this is actually kind of a compelling event as well. So I'm sorry, Chris, go ahead. Yeah. You know, I read the phone conversation. I didn't get to, but what got me back into looking into the subject, which was about six years ago, was I'm actually before the incident with me and my son.

And I'm in a bass club. I do a lot of bass fishing. And me and one of my club members were fishing for Smallmouth on Rice Lake, and that's off a highway 12. It's up on your way to pack wood near Mott's Rock and Morton area, and that's kind of a hot spot here for activity. Sure. We were fishing in September, and we were on the southern shore, and there's some fairly old, I don't think it's old growth, but it would be secondary growth. big timber, deep hills on that side of the lake, not really accessible to people. We'd fished one shore and we'd heard branch breaking and something moving down the shore kind of

paralleled us for about 45 minutes and my partner had blown it off as a, it's just elk, you know, but it kind of stuck in my mind that day because it was, it sounded like one animal and it was big branches breaking. It didn't sound like a herd of elk walking through the forest. And it had followed us downshore. We were probably 20 yards offshore fishing. And so that right there got me thinking, well, maybe it's a Sasquatch. And I joke and I was like, well, what do you think?

Maybe it's a Sasquatch. And the guy I was fishing with, he was kind of laughing. He goes, yeah, whatever. And he said, well, you know, another guy in the club, his son supposedly says he saw one up there. on a one where they were fishing a tournament a couple years before that. So that got me thinking about the subject again, and that's why I started reading again. And I got a, I got, I started reading Dr. McDermeldrum stuff, got some of his, so I started watching all the YouTube clips and stuff.

But, so that's kind of to why I started getting into reading and looking into the subject again six years ago. That's why. Okay. And then in 2013, me and my son, my son had wanted to go camping all year. I've been hounding me since Christmas time to go camping. And so finally his spring break, I said, fine, it was crappy over here. I live in western Washington, and it was raining. I said, we'll go east and see if we can find a place where it's not as bad.

And I brought stuff for rain, camping in the rain and all that. And we headed out, it was April 5th. It was a Friday. It was the end of his spring break. And we headed out Highway 14. Near the Wayne River, there's a campground. It's closed October 31st through April 1st. So we pulled in there, and we were the first people in there.

There hadn't been anybody else in there. It just opened, you know, four days before we got there. And it's right off of 14 between the highway and the Columbia River, and it's maybe 10 acres of forest and woods that the camp is in. And so we pulled in there, and we got set up, got an awesome camping spot right on the water, right on the river that was right to blow us. and it wasn't raining. It was kind of windy, and it turned out to be a nice day,

so we went kind of for a walk just exploring around. And first we followed a trail up that ran along the side of the river. And as we got up to the kind of the end of the trail, the trail would loop back up into the timber, and there was another trail up back in the timber that went back to the campground. And it was we got to a bank and you could see where someone had gone up the bank, there was a slide print. And then right in the middle of this bank was this old track.

And it was large, obliterated because it was old, but it was a large track. And my kid had jokingly said, hey, dad, fix it. And I was like, yeah, yeah, it might be. But I really didn't, you know, I just figured it was someone with a big foot. And I took a picture. I wear nine and a half and I put my foot next to it. And this thing was a lot longer and a lot wider than my foot. But we followed it up and got up into the timber.

And like I said, there's another trail in timber. And we started noticing all these freshwater clam chels just open, laying kind of around on the trail. and it kind of dawned. I mean, well, that's kind of odd. You know, there's otters and beaver or otters and coons and crows and, you know, blue herons and all, a lot of different critters eat freshwater clams, but they generally do it at shore and they break the clams. But these weren't chewed on.

They weren't broken. They're just open. And they're back in the timber, not where I'd expect to see them. and it kind of took note of that and as we're walking back towards the cast we just kind of come around this little knoll and right there in front it is a huge limb twist

well I wouldn't say huge but a limb twist it was a vine maple probably inch and a half two inches in diameter twist broke and pushed behind a big fir tree out of the way of the trail and it was I mean the minute we both saw it we were just like oh my God Now, let me ask you about this twisted tree, right?

So it was twisted, and I think I asked this before, the way the broken limb or trunk of this tree was it was set against another tree so that it wouldn't snap back? Yeah. Okay, okay. I think that's important. I just want to put that in it. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, it was like, because obviously the branch had been growing kind of above the trail we were on and this was twist broke and pushed behind a fairly large fir tree I took pictures of it I actually I emailed those pictures to it too so you have to check them out

Yeah we'll go ahead and toss those on the on the fan page But yeah it was fresh It was really fresh A human would be really hard-pressed To do that Something with hands did it but I go out in the woods and grab a vine maple and try to twist break it.

Well, especially at a height where you're reaching up. Yeah, I measured it. It was from the ground to where the break is is six feet. I mean, and it was a longer branch. I'm not saying a human couldn't have done it, but you'd really been hard-pressed to do it. And, you know, when I saw that, that was the most. most compelling thing that I have ever seen ever in my adult life to convince me that

there's something to this. And, you know, when we saw that, then we just, we are instantly just looking at everything. Yeah. I'm paying attention to everything. And I started looking at the ground. And sure enough, in the pine needles, the matrix of the ground was mainly pine needles and dead leaves and branches and an impression. right below that limb twist was a foot.

I mean, you could see the toes and the outline kind of the toes and the heel, and it was 18 inches long and 8 inches wide. Yeah, it's interesting to say that if you don't mind if they interjecture quickly, talking about the tree breaks and twists and that sort of thing. You know, people forget that, and I know a lot of people get excited when they see a tree rake in the wood. And they're, you know, they're prevalent. I mean, because the wind and snow and that sort of thing. You see clean breaks and part of the tree is, you know, toppled over,

and it could be at the six or eight foot mark in that. But what really gets my attention is when there's a twisting motion. And the reason I say that is because, you know, you'll get porcupines, raccoon, you'll get bear cubs that will climb a tree, get to a certain point and the thing starts to bend over and snaps and it brings them back down to the ground. So, I mean, there's logical reasons. I can't explain a clean twist.

can't explain a clean twist and then where the tension and the pushback was placed behind the tree so it wouldn't snap back. Do you know what I mean? Right. And this is kind of my opinion on the thing, a twist break, and you can see that the limb has been twisted and it's not completely broken off. You've got to have hands to do that. Right. It's not something another critter known critter to do, other than a human. And, you know, where we were at, and this was into my mind then and it stayed in my mind now,

no one had been in there for a long time. We were the first people camping in that campground. And so, yeah, that was, I mean, even to this day, that, that, that, that, that, that, that twist break. You could, everything that we kind of found, you could explain away, but you bring it all together with that limb twist,

and it's like, no, there wasn't a human that did that. Yeah, that is interesting. And then, so now the rest of your experience, that happened that night

as you went into camp, there's a picture that to see that, and the limb twist was just like, okay, freaking right on, off. Right, right. On the other,

Just right on the other side of this big fir tree, the limb twist was pushed against, there was another fir tree that maybe three inch diameter, 20 foot tall fur, just pushed over, broken at the basin, just pushed over. And then just shortly after that, it was a dead tree. I don't know what kind of tree it was. It was a deciduous tree, though. It was broken off about three feet up, and the rest of the tree was tossed to the side of the,

the trail and this this tree had an eight-inch I measured it an eight-inch diameter trunk on it it wasn't a wind did not do it it was it was broken and tossed to the side of the trail it wasn't it wasn't like the wind blew it over and it broke and just fell down it was tossed a good 10 12 feet away from the trunk of it three feet up did you now here's my question on that just boy devil's advocate is it possible the tree fell against fell across the trail and either Park Service or, because I was a kid with my dad for Park Service, could somebody have dragged it across

and placed it there? Or, I mean, is that a possibility? And I'm not trying to put down on the same. Yeah, yeah, that's a possibility. I, yeah. And like I said, had that limb twist not been there and wouldn't even notice it, wouldn't even look at it. You know, that's that fur that was just pushed over and broken in it was a live fresh fur, it was a live, fresh break too. That might have intrigued, that might have intrigued me.

The fir tree might have, but the dead tree, I would have not taken a second look at that had there not been the limb twist there. Yeah, okay. And that's interesting that it was just so far across. I mean, you know, like I said, when we did trail maintenance, if there was a tree across, you move it far enough away, but you don't, you know, you don't, you don't, you know, you're dragging the sense wall foot. So I'm just curious, that's all. All right. Go ahead. So, and we continued on the trail.

Just before we got back to camp, we kind of came to another area where the ground, it had a lot of leaves on it. It was real torn up. It looked like someone played a soccer game or something in the area. And so we, you know, at this point, we are looking at everything. We're not moving fast. We're just eyes on the ground and the trees looking for more limb twists. And so we looked around this area. I found another impression, really fresh impression, something with weight, stepped off

trail and headed into the denser forest area. And it was 18 inches long as well and 8 inches wide. And I took a picture of that. You could say it was something else. But it was, I mean, the shape of it, it just, it's another one of those situations where on its own, wouldn't have noticed it. But the fact we just found that limb twist

and the other impression, okay, yeah, this is something. And so I took pictures of that and we get back to camp after that and we were excited. And I actually, I had contacted a BFRO guy and I forget his name. I lost contact with him.

And I told him about all this, but I never really heard back from him again. But anyways, we had messed around. We went fishing for a little bit, came back to camp, and it kind of started drizzling a little bit, and I'd set up plastic tarps. I had two plastic tarps over our tent tied to trees around our tent. I sent you a picture of that, too. Okay.

And we got a fire going and roasted hot dogs, and we were joking around. It was a good day. Even though it was kind of drizzling, it wasn't that bad. And it was beautiful down there. We're right on the river, have the campground to ourselves. As it got darker, I started getting creeped out. And, you know, all the excitement of finding that limb twist and the impressions in the ground, I, you know, started thinking, well, once it gets dark, it gets really creepy out.

Right, right. We stayed up. I want to see. My son went to bed. between 9 and 10. And I stayed up for probably an hour after him. And he's 13. He goes to bed.

I could hear him snorn. He was snorned within 10 minutes of going to bed. And I finally, I went to bed. And like I said, I was creeped out. But, and like I told you before, I was armed. I have a concealed carry permit. I don't generally go out in the woods unarmed. And it's not because I want to kill any animals.

I'm more afraid of the looney-teen people you run into. Yep. But anyways, so I get in bed and I went to sleep. And sometime, and it was raining when I went to sleep. And sometime after midnight, I'd woken up and it was not raining anymore. It was kind of windy. And I heard branches being broken, some big branches. And when I, you know, when I woke up and I heard the branches breaking, instantly every

hair on my body stood straight up and I was scared. And like I kind of told you before when we talked before is I've never felt in my entire life. And here I am with the hand cannon and I am scared enough. I don't want to move. I don't want to get out of my sleep bag. Sure. And, you know, and here's my 13-year-old son next to me, snoring logs.

And so I'm laying there, and I hear movement, and then it gets quiet. And I don't know how much time passed, but I kind of started dozing a little bit, and then scrape, scrape, the freaking tarps scrape against each other. Something was pulling on the tarps. And I just sat straight up. and yelled what the F is that? And, you know, I woke up my son and it got real quiet outside. And my kids, what's wrong, what's going on?

And I'm like, nothing, you know, go back to sleep. And I sat there, you know, by that, at that point, I was not going back to sleep. Sure. My son did, of course. He started snorn shortly after that. And like I said before, I don't remember the truth. timeframe. I just, it was forever. It just, forever, I didn't hear anything and then I would hear branches being broken and then all of a sudden it happens again. The tarps get pulled on again.

Well, this time I had the panic button for my Jeep chair key in my hand and I hit the panic button and the horn and the lights go off and, you know, I'll wake my son up again and he thinks I'm insane. And I'm just like, I'm like, do you, have you heard anything? He's like, just you screaming dad in the horn. And, you know, finally he goes to sleep again. And I'm still, I'm just, I'm sick to my stomach scared. I just, it's just, it's, if I look at it now, it's like how, you know, I was just never been that scared before.

Sure, sure. You know, time passes. It was really quiet for a while. Then I heard some more branch breaking. And then we were camped right next to the river. The river, we're up high. And there was a bank below where our tent was set up, and maybe 50, 75 feet down was the actual Columbia River there.

Okay. There's some splashing in the water down there. It's more branch breaking. And I looked down my cell phone at this point, Because, well, first I had, I was laying on my stomach at this point, just kind of tossing and turning. And I was, honestly, I was trying to either go to sleep or for it to get light out. And I felt two kind of like base waves go from my head to my feet right through me. And I never, I knew nothing at that time.

I knew nothing about the infrasound theories. have now. I later have read and learned about it. But at that time I didn't know anything about that. It was just really weird. It was like a vibration, two waves and vibration just went through my body. And then I heard a distinct two wood knocks. It was a, I just, and then everything kind of stopped and it was quiet and the wood knocks were just like oh I know what that is right right and uh anyways that yeah I laid there got my cell phone and it was about 3.30 in the morning and I basically laid there in terror until it got I started seeing the sky kind of light up through the tent and then I got out built a big fire and my son

got up around seven and I asked him what he'd heard and of course he said that he thought he'd heard some branches breaking but mainly all he remembered of the night was me yelling in the car horse the jeep horn going off and um you know I told him what I had heard and uh we both agreed that we weren't going to stay there again sure I'm that I don't wait a minute I was exhausted we packed up and went home. You know, I've thought about it, and I honestly, I think that the area where we're at, there's more, I had the gut feeling that there was more than one critter out there too. And I think I was just getting messed with it.

I think we were just the first people in there. I think there were some animals in there kind of wintering down in the, that area and we happened to camp right in where they were hanging out and they were just kind of messing with us. I think there's quite a few signs of experiences where somebody is going to camp site, wherever it is, remote or just, you know, next to a lake or whatever. And they experience kind of what you experience where they're around and all of a sudden they see fresh footprints, they see tree twists and that sort of thing.

And then, you know, they go to camp that night or the next night and they hear something near to camp, it's wood knocking, and then they stay one more night, and inevitably there is a screen next to their campsite, or they actually see something. And I feel like, I think it's valid to say, and a lot of people say this, that the activity will ramp up. They only want you gone. They don't want to, you know, for the most part, I don't know, there's missing hikers, I don't know if they seem to eat people. I mean, it's weird, but we don't really know. But, I mean, for the most part, This is kind of what I hear. If you could think of one thing, I'm going to challenge you a little bit here.

What is the one thing looking back on all your experiences that you learned, that you might pay attention to going forward? Oh, definitely, when I'm hiking now, because that's one of my favorite pastimes, and I've actually gotten into hiking more now just because of this experience. I'm paying a lot of attention to my surroundings. I'm looking for those lint twists now. And I'm not, I think back, and I talked, you know, a month after this, me and one of my buddies, we went back there and we took more pictures, and I actually, I cut that limb twist out. It's in my garage right now.

You did? Yeah. It's not very impressive now because it's all dried out. But, yeah, we went back and I got it. And talking with my buddy, you know, how many times have I been in the woods and walked past stuff that a fast watchwatch did that just didn't notice or just assumed a human did it? Right. And the area I was in is not a place I would expect to find stuff. I, you know, I've always thought, well, you've got to be way deep away from all the people.

And we were in an area of the fact. fairly populated. Right. You know, but it's an area that you can get unpopulated really quick. Right. And I really think that, you know, depending on the season and the time of year, they come a lot closer to us than we're aware of. Okay.

Especially, I think, during the wintertime, because just like all the other critters, they're not going to be up, they're not going to want to stay up in the snow levels. Sure. Not that they don't, yeah, not that they venture up there, but I'm sure they come down and, let's face it, humans don't go out messing around in the woods a lot in the wintertime. There's a fraction of the number of hikers and people out in the woods. So I think areas that may be really crowded with tourists and hikers in the summertime aren't, and then they utilize those areas. See, I wonder, I wonder I was thinking about this when we're talking. and this was kind of, as you get to know me, you'll know that I'll think of like these things

whacked out of the blue. Like, I agree creativity is kind of a way that you discover things as well. But I wonder when you cut out that limb and you went back and got it, you know, if you ran a black light over it, would there be a mark where an oil mark from a handprint or something that would show, even better than thermal, that would just light up like, wow, something grabbed it here, you know what I mean? I would never even that never even occurred to me but that's a good thought I especially would have been nice to do when I first found it because it was yeah I feel like the whole thermal thing's great but you know there's there's residue from oily hands or skin or something and it would be you know you just kind of run it along the tree trunk and something's going to light up and man if it's you know two feet above the break and twisted then you can say wow something grabbed it right here and that'd be you know you just kind of run it right here and that'd be you know be, you know, more compelling.

So I don't know. If anybody's out there wants to do that, do it. But it was kind of a thought, you know. Yeah. You know, when we went back, too, I mean, my buddy, this was a, this happened in April, and we went back in May into May. There was a bunch of people in the campground and a lot of human activity. And, you know, we looked around and there was all the impressions that I, we'd found.

And we'd found, there was a lot of other kind of twist breaks around the camp. little things, but I never, I didn't take pictures of them just because the first thing someone says that human can do that. Right, right. But all the stuff that

me and my son had found, there wasn't. There was no new stuff. There wasn't, I just, when we, the main limb twist was there. I took pictures of my buddy with it and buy it. But, like I said, they

weren't, obviously hadn't been there. They probably left shortly after we did as far as that concern. Yeah, yeah. I did go back for the first time two weeks ago, just for, you know, the heck of it, because I told myself after that happened I was going to go back in the wintertime when that campgrounds closed and look around. And, you know, it's been almost two years, and I had, the last year was a bad year for me, so I got off.

I didn't do a lot of stuff I had planned, but this year I have time, so I went back a couple of weekends ago, and I had to park quite a ways away because there's actually two gates to get in there, and they had it all gated off, so I had to do a little hiking to get back to the actual campground, which really was like, oh, this is cool.

So this is so gated off that nobody's going to be back there, and I got back there, and I did not find any sign. And as soon as I got walking around back there, all of a sudden some Stamania County work when came in and they were cutting wood and clearing wood out of the area and stuff. So I was like, well, there's a lot of human activity in the winter. So I don't know. You know, I just, time was right that year that me and my son were there, I guess. Well, you mean the theory too being, I mean, maybe they're Klanish and maybe they move around and they go where the food goes and there's no reason to stay in one place.

And, you know, you look at it, and to an animal, the entire forest is a grocery store, I mean, they don't have to go in one certain spot. I go where the food is, and they know the area really well. You might not see them there for another two years, just depending on what's growing. Well, yeah, and this year is different than that year. We had a lot more snow, early snow that year in the hills, and this year we've hardly had any snow out here at all. And so I don't, you know, the general animal population is probably not down as well as they were that particular year. Sure. So there's a lot of variables.

As far as, it's funny that you say that because we're getting into some GIS software, and we're starting to plot spatial data as far as sightings. and we're going to pile in a lot of data as far as weather, you know, food source, time of day, barometric pressure. We're putting all of these. And what we're trying to do is find a pattern scientifically and hopefully do some predictive modeling. But again, it's kind of trying to be creative. No one's doing this.

And I'm figuring, why not, you know, what the hell? We may as well do that sort of thing. But the question I have for you, because you're a science-minded guy, basically, you know, your background says a lot about that. But what do you wish people were doing these days besides sending Blobsquatch videos around to their friends from Facebook Facebook Facebook Facebook? What do you think we could do differently to kind of make some headway? I want to see people do what Les Stroud is trying to do now. Yeah, I agree.

Go out there by himself and actually do research like Jane Goodall. You know, no more sensationalizing. Find Bigfoot. That's a joke. I watched that for entertainment purposes. Yeah. You know, some serious, serious knowledgeable woodsmen, survivalists, go out there and stay out there for long periods of time. And, you know, I, that's what I like to see.

The less drought, I just, you know, when I found out that he had some experiences himself, It's just kind of excited me because I, that's the only survivor show that I like because this guy has balls. He goes out in the woods by himself and films everything by himself. To me, he's more creditable than anybody as a, you know, a layman witness to this stuff. And I loved hearing about his experience on that Alaskan show, you know, and I went back and rewatched his show in Alaska. and you can see where he kind of looks up when, you know, he says he was here and stuff. Right. That's incredible.

Why do you think he went with Todd Standing on the show? That's what surprised me. I was like when I found out that I was excited when I heard he was going to do a show, but then when I found out he was going with Todd Standing, I was like, are you kidding me? and that's just my personal opinion. I think once you've sensationalized things and fake things, you're no longer credible to me. And that's, in my opinion, Todd Standing is fake stuff.

That's my opinion. He's Canadian, right, Todd Stanley? Yes, he is, and so is less drought. Now, here's the thing. I have this theory and nobody's talking about it, but I know in the entertainment business there, especially in radio. You have to have so many Canadian artists played

for every artist that you play from outside the country. And I wonder to get access to some of these lands, government lands and that sort of thing, if it was easier to use Todd's banning because he was a fellow Canadian and it would benefit. You know what I mean? Like, I just wonder if he chose that out of convenience

and maybe now he's sorry. I don't, you know, I was not happy to hear that that's who he did the show. but when I watched the show, I liked the way he did the show. I don't think he, I don't think he, I think some of the stuff that they found was legitimate stuff. But I, you know, I feel, yeah, I don't think Les Stroud, to me,

lost any credibility by having Todd's thing. Because the way he, you know, did the show and talked about Todd, he's just looking at it from an objective position. That's the way... Yeah, he didn't get too married to the subject. He didn't get too close to Todd. And he always couched everything with a bit of skepticism. That was really smart on his part because otherwise, you know,

your career is kind of sunk at that point, you know. So, man, I think we've been talking for about an hour. I really appreciate your time. You know, it's great that you came forward. I appreciate the fact that you contacted me about the fact that you were a student of Professor Krantz. I know, again, that must have been awesome, you know, looking back on that, especially in your education field of work. You know, you're educated in anthropology. And, you know, that must have been great for you.

And I think you've really enlightened the audience as to some of the research, or at least the theory behind what might be going on. I mean, it's just led to so much, and we're finding that these truths are bearing out. And yeah, man, thanks for coming on. I wanted to say thank you to Chris and, of course, to Dave. Dave was at the very least supposed to be here, but like I said, he's not feeling well. And the offer was extended to Chris to come on, but it was just, it was quite last minute. So I did, however, get a chance to talk to Chris and just ask him over, you know, message. a few questions that I would have asked if he was here.

And Chris does say that he doesn't care to run into one, that the pulling on his tent and the walking around camp was quite enough for him. He says, however, he is obsessed, and he does go out often keeping his eyes and ears open for things he would have dismissed in the past. and I can definitely second that at this point. And another thing that I wanted to bring up, I talked to my friend Sean today,

and this is a man that has been on the Sasquatch Chronicles show, and he has shared his experience on the Sasquatch Chronicles.com blog. He had an encounter when he was 12, and he is a very talented artist and is able to recreate incredible drawings from just verbal communication of what people saw.

That is his new MO. It's what he's going for right now. It's a new project he's going for and I fully support it. The Facebook page, it is brand new. It is crypto-recreator

and that is on Facebook. And if you want to email him, his name is Sean. S-E-A-N, and it is Crypto-Dash Recreator at Hotmail.com. So don't hesitate to contact him. I know that he has done a recreation for a friend of the show, Pam. She has recently been on even more recently than him, and she contacted him to do a drawing of the creature that she saw at quite close range,

and it actually, she said it was almost therapeutic, because she could relive it without having to actually look at it, but kind of deal with it in a way. So I wanted to say thank you to Sean for just coming out with these services for people. And for now, those are the ways to get in contact with him. And I'm sure that we will hear from him in the future. I'm planning to bring him on, especially when things get going and ramp up for the recreations for people,

and their encounters. Thanks to everyone for listening tonight. Don't forget to visit us at Sasquatch Chronicles.com. And in case you didn't hear the announcement on Saskron Sunday yesterday, Will is starting his own show this coming Saturday, the 21st, 6 Pacific, 9 Eastern called Into the Abyss. Until next time, keep up. the search.

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