Silicon Valley Girl: AI, Tech and Career Growth - Jenny Lei: From $0 to $9M. How an Immigrant Turned Failure Into Fortune

Episode Date: June 4, 2025

Unlock the incredible story of Jenny Lei, founder of Freja New York ― a vegan leather handbag brand that has taken the fashion world by storm. After arriving in the U.S. without a passport, Jenny was driven to build her own business as the only way to stay in America. What began in 2020 with just 300 bags has grown into a multimillion-dollar company's. Today, her bags are adored by top influencers like Hailey Bieber, Matilda Djerf, and Katie Holmes. Tune in for a conversation that will change the way you see setbacks-and success.Links: Follow my Newsletter:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://siliconvalleygirl.beehiiv.com⁠Companies & Products: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://Marinamogilko.co⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/siliconvalleygirl/ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@SiliconValleyGirl⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠linkedin.com/in/marinamogilko⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠X: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/siliconvalleymm⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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Launch. Hey, we're live. Not a single person, what? my goodness. But now Haley Bieber wearing one of our bags. And then I saw Anne Delvey wore your bag to court. It's a part of our story now. If you don't tell your story, someone else will. Jenny, thank you so much for being here. I'd love to talk about your business and your journey. First of all, can you walk me through this mindset? You're in New York and you have no design background. And you're like, let me start a brand that makes bags. And it's a highly saturated market. You have all the designers you can think of. What was going on in your head? A lot of things. Well, first all, thank you so much for having me. So Freya started as my dream to design the perfect work

bag for modern women. But why bags? Like there are other ways to make money. The reason why bags, I don't really believe in oversaturation. I think you should go fishing where there are a lot of fish in the water. I think like trying something new and totally like no one, that no one else has ever done is actually a lot more risky. And then YBags is, it's like a twofold story. When I graduated undergrad, same situation, I had to make money because I didn't have a job. And I Googled how to make money fast online. And I found drop shipping. You probably found all of those YouTube videos. I did. I went to YouTube University. I did. So I was like, okay, this is my thing. I'm going to try this. I made, I think, six stores, maybe got like one or two sales this whole time.

And then my seventh store, I was drop shipping bags. From China? From China? And that worked really well. So I'm like, okay, I know how to sell bags. I know what kinds of bags people like. I know what colors. I know what countries.

Okay. And then I kind of like shelved that idea. I still went back to grad school. I was like I should be a designer. Like I want a U.X designer was what I went to grad school for. It was like I think this suits me. I think I should still find a job. And then I think this was halfway through grad school.

I was preparing for a very important interview. This was like my last chance to get a job in my head. And the night before the interview, I couldn't find a bag that I could bring to this interview. Like I wanted to walk and feeling confident. I was supposed to be there the whole day. They let me go after three people talk to me. And they're like, okay, you can go now. So I'm like, okay, I don't think I got that job.

So I went to Bryant Park and I sat there and I thought, okay, what can I do? Like, I'm not going to get this job. If I want to stay in this country, I want to, if I want to stay, I need to make money. I need to find a job for myself. I feel like there are other women who might also experience what I experienced today, which is not having a go-to bag that they felt confident and was super functional and elevated with no like logos or anything like that. So I'm like, okay, I have an idea.

I think I can make that and I know how to sell bags. So what if I started my bag brand? That's how I started. And then I started sketching the day I got back. Did you have a passport, U.S. passport, back then? I don't have a U.S. passport. Oh, so you were still on a visa. So that meant you had to move really fast.

Exactly. Yeah. Oh, wow. And your parents are still in China, right? They're in China. When did you move? How old were you? I was born in China.

I moved to U.S. when I was four. Okay. Grew up in the U.S., and I actually went to high school in China. Because I visited the summer before high school in the U.S. I'm like, wait, this place is dope. Like, I could see myself living here. Yeah. So I moved back to China by myself.

My parents came back two months later. I enrolled into a local Chinese high school. I learned how to read and write Chinese in high school. Wow. But now I can talk to my factory in Chinese. Yeah, like everything kind of worked out really well. Do you think you all would grow back or? Not to live.

No, no. I love New York. So were you able to get a visa through your business after that, EB1, all of that? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, wow. That's, that's a great.

What did your parents say when you told them, hey, I didn't get a job, but I'm starting a birth business. I've always been able to make money online. So they're like, you know what? Like, let's let her try it. What was your initial go-to-market strategy? I didn't really have one. I thought, let me...

Okay, so I'm very much like a one step-out-a-time kind of person. I don't... I'm not a planner. I'm trying to be. So I went to school December, January, 2019. And then I graduated December, 2019. But during that summer, like, I was in China looking for factories and doing all of that. So my only goal was to make one bag that I was really...

really, really happy with. And that took eight months of back and forth because I didn't know what I was doing. And then my factor was like, how do you want us to work off of these sketches? Like, I don't know what you want. So there's a lot of communication issues there too. So a lot of my time was just focused on getting the product perfect. So I'm like, you know what? I can worry about everything after that. I think, you know, product is king, marketing is queen. My initial launch strategy, because I was drop shipping, so I knew how to do ads. And even to this day, like, we're very, very heavy on paid advertising. Amazon or is it just Shopify?

No, just Shopify. We're only due to C. And we're in a couple retailers as well. But my go-to-market strategy was I'm going to run an ad for people to sign up, email. After you made a product. After I made the product. Because people do AV tests and mock-ups, right? Normally.

That's what I was told to do. I didn't do it. The model that you designed the bag. Was it successful in terms of like paid ads? Did people actually convert or? Eventually, yes. Yeah. But I ordered 300 bags.

I had them send to my apartment. No, I think they were like on the way. I started collecting emails. I think I collected 2,500 emails on Facebook. And then once the bags got there, it was like, send. Launch. Hey, we're live. Not a single person, what?

Oh, wow. And then. For how long? Um. So the bags got to me February of 2020. So I'm also trying to sell a work bag right before COVID. Oh, my goodness. Right.

So I'm like, okay. The worst time. Let me, let me think about how. to market this in a way where people need, feel like they need a work bag right now. So there was a lot of back and forth on that. I think it took, it took a year to sell out 300 pieces. Wow. Yeah.

And you didn't give up. I can't. I have to sell these bags in my apartment. But like maybe find a job or it was impossible, right, to find a job during COVID. I'm thinking if I was still looking for jobs. I don't think I was. I had savings. I had some runway from drop shipping.

But there was one month. I think this was August, 20. I remember this so clearly. I was sitting on the couch with my laptop, Shopify screen open. Three sales the whole month, $834 the whole month. I'm like, you know what? It's the worst it's going to get, right? We're slowly out from here. And I remember how I kept going during that time. It's like, Jenny, you're going to look back five years from now and you're going to be so happy that you kept going. It's like your future self-talking. Yeah. Wow. And so, what were the next steps? When did this magic happen? I don't think magic really happened. I think, so there's a lot of trial and error for the first year, mostly with paid ads.

I think I've found a formula that works well for us, and it still works all for us today. Like most of our ads are variations of the same. It's like me packing the back because that really gets the people going. Right. Bag and in action. Inaction, exactly, in videos. Images don't work well for us. Like, pretty campaign images don't work well. like people want to see it. And like given that we are known for being a very functional bag brand,

I think that makes a lot of sense. Got better at the ads. It was just like a lot of improvement, like tiny little improvement here and there. In the beginning first year, we probably did like one to 1.5X ROAS, which is like pretty much breaking even. Like you give Facebook one dollar and you get one dollar back. Year two, I believe I started interviewing ads agency. and like I think I've kind of hit a wall with what I can do. But I think like I got the brand voice down where I could, you know, teach an agency that. First one was honestly terrible. They told me that I should focus on writing content.

Like I'm trying to sell bags now. Content marketing works, but that takes a lot of time. They were like, you should write blog post. I'm like, okay, I will do that. But however, I need to sell this product. Second one was okay. Third one started working really well. like they helped us pick up. It was so expensive though. I think it was like $3,000 a month. And given like I'm not really making money at this point. So I'm like, okay, leap of faith, like let's let's hope it works out. And then I got assigned a new ads person. And he, he got it. What was so special about his approach? I don't know. I don't remember. He took the same creatives or same creatives. It's just the way he targeted people. I think so. There was something different about it.

Yeah. Interesting. And I think we had maybe the ad account was, had enough data at that point where Facebook could use to find new people. But I don't know. Patrick, like, he just got it. And then we started hitting like two, two point five consistently three, sometimes four. For the same creatives that you used for the whole year. Same creative.

Surprising. Because my strategy with paid ads would be like, oh, this creative is not working. Let's just try 100 more and see what's working. Mm-hmm. On the creative side. Yeah. I'm lazy, so I'm like, this is the creative. I know it works. Do you know how many iterations you went through until you found that piece that worked? Not that many, honestly. I think probably like on the 10th batch.

Like I started doing videos and I started talking about the functionality and that worked really well. Interesting. Yeah. But yeah, anyone listening to this, thinking about doing paid ads, creative is a lot more important than Targeting. But it's interesting to hear that for you then the second step was figuring out the right person who did the right targeting. Because at that point, I don't know, because I think I've found, so that creative was getting me sales. I'm like, okay, I know this kind of creative works, but there's something that I don't know on the back end. And I think there's someone that can come in and do that.

And also, ads was taking up so much of my time. I wasn't doing anything else. It was like eight to 10 hours on Facebook. Oh my goodness. I was a marketing company. It was not a bag brand. Yeah. Yeah. In the beginning. Yeah. And so that started working. Or were your next steps? Let's design more bags? Yeah, I think we put out maybe one or two new products every year up until this last year. And that's just because one, design is not my favorite part of it. It's really difficult. It's a lot easier now because I have a base to work off. And I know, like, I found the brand identity. I know what kind of products I like. I had to develop my own sense of design, like, alongside. So design was really, really hard. I also trained my customers to not expect.

a lot of new products because I'm like, guys, I just want to make the perfect work bag for women. I think this is it. We'll make it in neutral colors. There's no, it's like seasonless. And then people started asking for that bag, but with the zippers. I'm like, okay, guys, I'm going to design this bag, but with a zipper. So that's kind of, it was a lot of, like, community feedback. Because I'm like, guys, you tell me what you want.

I don't know what I'm doing here. Have you ever sort of hiring a designer? I have a creative director now that I hire. and maybe like last summer. It's funny, I actually hired her to do some content for us when I first started. This was four years ago. I was thinking this past summer like, who was the perfect person? Real.

I reached out and she was free and now she's our creative director. But now we work on designs together and it's really, really, it's so helpful to have another pair of eyes. Yeah. With like amazing and similar design sense to me. Now your business makes over $10 million in revenue annually. What has changed in terms of marketing? Are you still doing the paid ads? Are they still the number one source for you?

Yeah, paid ads are a bread or better. I think we're always in customer acquisition mode. Because we're still very small and a very young brand. Last year, I started thinking like, okay, paid ads aren't going to work forever, obviously. They're working great now. But let's also start some other channels before we have to. Like, I don't want to wait until it stops working. So we're investing heavily into influencer.

I have a good program for that. UGC with influencers or what? Yeah, UGC and then like during events and just like more collaborations, like driving affiliate sales. And then because I'm thinking like I don't really buy things off ads. I buy things when I see someone I like wearing it. Right. Right.

I don't really shop from ads. So really building that out because I also want to offer a lot of value to our customer, I think something that resonates really deeply with our customer is the backstory. It's the behind the scenes. It's like the little design choices, why we're doing this, why we're doing that. It's my life honestly. They want to hear what I'm up to every day. Like they, like our newsletters, we send to a week, Tuesday, it's a bit more product focus. And then Friday I'll send, they're called Jenny's journals. I'll just send like, this is what I'm working on or this is what I've been thinking about. I was feeling a lot of imposter syndrome this week. And this is how I walk through it. And like,

People really resonate with that. But you still avoid bright colors and like trends, everything. Does it bother you? Like, oh, I'm not following the market. Where's the burgundy? No. I think a lot of my design decisions also are, I am lazy. I don't want to think about seasonality.

I don't really want to think about colors. I want everything to be sellable all your route. And also, I'm not a designer. I don't even know what rules I should be following. Like, I look back at the first bag and I design. I'm like, there's no way I would design it like that. today. But it still sells, right? It's still sells. I want to redesign it, but people like it's part of our story now. So I'm like, maybe I just leave that alone. And it's really fun to see the progression,

I think. In one of the interviews you said, you don't like to follow like traditional marketing things. I wonder what your opinion is on life shopping, because I feel like it's taking over everything and you're from China, you know, how crazy it is out there. And it's coming here. Like I see creators in China in front of 400 cameras, just live streaming, selling and selling and selling. They're crazy. Right? And it's a workout.

And you just see, like, American social media turning into that because everyone is now selling and the social media platforms are pushing that. What do you think about that? Do you think it's a healthy trend? Does it work for a brand? I don't think it's something that I would ever try. Just because I think for Freya and for me,

like, my goal is not to be salesy. My goal is not to, like, push product on you. My goal is to be a brand for the people who are looking for something, you know, made with care, made with love, something that they can wear for a really long time, something timeless and neutral, classic. And I think live shopping kind of goes against that. And it's like, I want this to be a purchase that you think about. Like, I want it to be an investment piece. I don't want you to just buy it because, you know, you saw me, you saw someone live shopping. And I want it to be, I really want it to be intentional.

I think that's like one of our brand pillars. You said, our customers don't want to be sold to. I really like that phrase. How does that reflect in what you do in marketing? Maybe like you don't do like shop now, stickers or whatever. Can you share some of that? So in marketing, first of all, we don't really do sales. We maybe do one or two a year just to let's say like, hey, thanks for being part of our community.

I used to never do sales. Never. We didn't do a single sale for the first two years. I'm like, I don't believe in it. I think our prices are set the way they are to be fair all year around. Especially because you explain the pricing on your website, right? If you're discounting, that means you're like just cutting the margins. But then someone framed it in a way and I really liked it.

He was like, this is actually a way to reward your customers maybe at the end of the year, like, do a little sale. So they can like gift their friends and give themselves. And I'm like, you know what, that's a really good way to put it. I like that a lot. So we do that. Like for our emails, that's why it's never like salesy. it's always like I think of it as a pull not a push like I want to pull you into our um ecosystem in the freya world I'm like what would I want to see as in consumer I want a brand

that delivers value to me like through our content um through our newsletters like I want to learn something I want to be entertained I don't want to be sold to um same with our I would say like our ad creatives they're very I would say elegant they're very simple it's not like by now by this um slashing prices or anything like that. It's just us packing the pack and showing you like, hey, this is something that you might consider in your life and like showing them how it could fit into their life. And then I definitely want to do a lot more community events. That's something that we're building out right now.

And I want to be more than a brand. Like we started the Freya Fund last year, which essentially is I put out a poll to our community and they could fill out in, not a poll, but basically they could submit an application. And we selected a group of seven women who are like working on starting their own businesses. And I essentially like mentor them every other week and we're all in a group and I've met all of them almost. So I want to do more things like that. I think I want to, I think we're at the stage now where I do, I'm not in like survival mode anymore. And it's not like, how am I going to sell this mountain of bags?

I'm like, okay, I know they're going to sell. How can I channel the money we're making now into something that feels really meaningful to me? I think that's like the stage that we're at right now. Do you become an investor in their companies or is just you just give them money and that's it? I don't want to be an investor. Like I don't want to take a part of their baby. Wow.

So it's just a fun charity. Wow. I think it's like educational. I think and I think especially in the beginning, what everyone needs more than anything, is someone telling them, hey you're not crazy. I believe in you. I believe in your idea.

And I think to be surrounded by other women who are also starting their own businesses. Like that's not something that you get. It's not easy to find, especially in the beginning.

And everyone's like, problems feel so big in the beginning. And I think it's very reassuring when someone's like, don't worry about it. Yeah. And you always feel it's just you, nobody else in the world.

Exactly. Like also like everyone is experiencing the same thing. Like on our first call, I think everyone was worried about their packaging. They were like, oh, it's not just me.

Like, everyone is going to do this, and it's very reassuring. Yeah. I wanted to show you something, a picture. Can you tell me what you felt when this happened? I was, okay, so the picture is Haley Bieber wearing one of our bags. This was April of last year. I had just hired PR, I think February of that year, and she had started, like, doing some seating. And I remember I was in Hong Kong.

I think I was back to visit family, visit the factory. So I was taking a walk at 6 a.m. So I was very, very jetline. I was looking for like an open bakery or something. And suddenly everyone is facetiming me. Okay, what's going on? And then they're like, hey, leaveers are you're like, oh, my God. So that was our first love.

Wow. Yeah. So the strategy was basically just sending them. It was just seating. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And did you see a splash in sales, spike in sales?

A little bit. I think where we did see a huge spike in sales as we started running ads that were with like just saying like, Oh, with that image? I don't know if we used that image. Or we just say like, I don't think we can. Yeah, yeah. I don't think we can. I think we did like the Haley Bieber bag or whatever and then people started Googling it. And then they would find the articles. Can you do that? Like, can you use somebody's name in an ad? I don't know. I don't know. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job. It gives your job. job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications, and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this shell will get a $75-sponsored job credit at Indeed.com

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Ask for forgiveness, not permission. And then I saw Anne Delvey wore your bag to corn. We didn't send her. That wasn't part of the strategy. No, I asked Molly, I was like, Molly? She's like, no, that wasn't me. Do you feel like you don't want to target certain people with your bag or you're inclusive of everyone?

We're definitely selective. Like, your selling power is not the main thing that we consider. Like, especially when looking for creators to work with. I think what we look for is interesting people. I think, like, people that I find inspirational in some way, either their style or their story or what they're doing in the world. Can you give any tips to a beginner creator? who wants to work with you.

How polished should the content be? Should they just be posting about style? Because what I've started doing some fashion Instagram and I've been primarily business and I've heard a lot of backlash from brands. They're like, they won't say it directly but they're like, this is not the type of content we're looking for but translates into you're not stylish enough

where are these photo shoots in like New York, aesthetics, whatever. And so this is what I've been hearing back from the industry. Is that your approach as well? I think for us. So there's two types of creators that we mainly work with. One is for content. So the first type is, you know, I think you have really, really good eye for content. So that's like one category.

And obviously that's our creative director is based in Copenhagen. So now we have a lot of Copenhagen girls. I think that's like the Freya aesthetic. Very neutral. Cities. Yeah. Black and white. Yeah.

And then the second type is people who can move product essentially. And then I think for those, I'm looking for someone with a point of view, like someone really authentic, someone with a very engaged following who follows them for a reason and, you know, will, is open to buying what they suggest. Yeah. In today's world, everything is scrutinized. Everything is criticized on social media. Have you ever had an event when you had an opinion and then you got so much backlash you like? I'd rather than just not say anything.

I don't think so. Not yet. Not yet. But like there's always going to be backlash. about everything. So for the first three years, there was nothing about me. There was, I think maybe my first name

was on the website, but you couldn't find anything else about me. And then when I hired PR, she was like, Jenny, you need to put yourself out there. Like, it'll help build a brand. It'll help build you. And she was right.

But I was really scared. I was like, what if there's backlash? What if there's backlash? You're right. That's a risk as well. It's a risk. Like, if you get,

I think about this all the time because I'm in the face of my company. If I get canceled, the whole company goes down. I know. And it's like one of those things that you can't come back from. Like, once people know you, they're not going to unknow you. Right? Like, they may forget about you, but they'll always know you. That's like

one of those decisions that it's not a two-way door. Like you go through, you're not coming back. Yeah. But then someone told me this at the very beginning, and it always stuck with me. And he said, if you don't tell your story, someone else will. So I'm like, okay, I need to get ahead of this. If there's backlash, great, I can learn from it. But as long as I am acting in accordance to my own morals and value system, I think, like, I can go to sleep happy at night knowing that. A couple last questions. Where do you see your brand in 10 years? I'm not a planner. So I haven't planned anything out beyond maybe the next year or two, but I decided collectively with my team. I think this was maybe a month ago.

We started having like all hands-on deck calls, which are kind of fun. On the first one, I said, guys, you know, I've been really thinking about this. We grew with the team a lot in the last six months. So everyone's like pretty new. Like we have a world-class team here. Everyone is so good and so passionate about Freya and their role. If we're doing the work anyway, why don't we think about building Freya into a legacy brand? Like, I think it was just a little mindset shift. Like, business is formulaic, right? You're the product, you're the marketing, you do operations, logistics.

I think what is not formulaic is how you think about it and the mindset behind everything. And I think that is actually what's driving the most change, like, as I've noticed. Like last year I decided I'm going to take myself seriously and I'm going to take Freya seriously. Huge change. This year, I'm like, okay, I'm taking it seriously. But where do I want to go? Let's channel this energy into building a legacy brand. We're doing this anyway.

It's not more work. It's just different work. And then I'm just thinking a lot more long term. And then I think it makes it actually a lot easier for everyone else to focus in on what their role is in the company and where they're going to grow and where we're taking it. and it's a lot easier to filter decisions through, like, what a legacy brand do this? Yeah, what's different now? I'm not in a hurry to get anywhere fast.

I think I want to invest a lot more into building the brand instead of just like selling product in a way. And that's why I want to do like more community events. I want to be known for being a brand that treats its community and customers and vendors and everyone really, really well, along with having, you know, a nice selection of functional best. I want to expand into men's. I want to take it global.

And I want to have a lot of fun doing it. Love it. What's the brand that you're looking up to? There is one brand. It's called Metier, London. They're not super well-known. I think they're getting a lot more press now, which they very, very much deserve.

But I think they've been around maybe like six or seven years. But the designer, Melissa, used to work at, I think she used to design cars. So she comes from like a car, technical, more technical background. And I think she started with men's bags. They're very expensive, but I saw one in store once. And it's very rare that I'm like, oh, that's really high quality. And like everything she does is so thoughtful.

And that was one of my inspirations for starting for her. I want my bags to feel really, really thoughtful. And I think she does that really, really well. Like every little detail, like how the magnet sounds when it closes, like things like that. Yeah. And I think that's like the level of thought and detail that I aspire to. How do you then balance the price tag and quality? Yeah. At the same time, it's like I do want Freya to be and remain accessible. That's really, really important to me. I don't want to change our pricing too much. I think what I might do is launch like limited edition runs, maybe like a couple hundred pieces. Higher priced. Like, like, you know, like, you know, you can go for that if you want. However, we'll always have our main collection. And I think that will build a brand too. It's like we are known for, you know, having our basics, but we will also

offer elevated pieces here and there. Can you give advice for women who are watching right now? They have a brilliant idea, but the market is saturated that don't know how to start. They don't really believe in themselves. What is the mindset change? They have to go through in order to make it happen. You just have to do it. You'll never be ready. And I also think don't think too far in advance, because you'll get really, really overwhelmed. Just think about the next step. My favorite podcast, Alex Promosi, my Bible. There's something he said, and I'm like,

that is exactly what I'm trying to say. So he said, imagine you are in a dark tunnel. You have a headlamp on your head. You can see what's in front of you. Nothing further than that. Starting business. Similar, you can see what you have to do next. I'm like, okay, I don't know how to sell bags,

but before I sell bags, I need to know how to make a bag. and before I know how to make a bag, I need to like find a sample maker. So it was like one step at a time. And then he says, you only know what's in front of you. And then you're not going to see what's next until you take that first step. But once you take that first step, the next step illuminates. And I think what people don't realize is you at step two is not you at step one.

You at step two is much better equipped to deal with everything that you need to do at that point. But you need to take that first step first. Like think about your job today. You could probably do it in your sleep. But day one, like you went in there like, oh my gosh, I don't know what to do. Like the problems I'm dealing with today, I'm looking back and I'm like, if I knew what I knew today, I don't know if I would have started for it. I hear that from every entrepreneur. Really? Yeah.

You don't even, you don't know what you're saying before. You don't need to know. Like you're not going to handle it. You're not going to be able to handle it. But future you will. And I think another thing is figuring out what to measure, like especially when you're not necessarily making progress in the beginning. And I think for me, like when we, even when we weren't selling bags, I was like, okay, I know if I can get my ads engine to work.

Like that, what is that one thing, your input output equation? Like, what is that one thing? I'm like, you know, I might not be able to sell bags. But if every day, if every day I promise myself my input is I will sit in front of Facebook and try different things for eight hours a day. There is no way that I'm not going to learn. And I think going off of that is really figuring out like what's actually going to you forward for me, like, I need to sell bags because there's so many things that you

could worry about. But I'm like right now, I just need to figure out a way to sell. And I'm choosing ads. You can pick anything. It could be content. It could be influencer. But like focus in on one thing. We're one way of getting customers and get really, really good at it.

Love it. Love it. Thank you so much. Thank you. Very insightful. So many cool stories. Thank you, Jenny. And looking forward to seeing more of your bags in New York.

in Bay Area, see them everywhere. Huge congratulations of that. Thank you so much for having me. That was so fun. Awesome. That was great. We also my favorite podcast ever. I love your question.

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