Silicon Valley Girl: AI, Tech and Career Growth - Stop Disease 5 Years Early: AI + DNA Playbook With 23andMe's Founder Anne Wojcicki

Episode Date: July 29, 2026

In this episode of the Silicon Valley Girl Podcast, Marina Mogilko sits down with Anne Wojcicki, co-founder and CEO of 23andMe — the genetic testing company that has helped more than 14 million people understand their ancestry and health risks, and built one of the largest human genetic datasets in the world.After 23andMe went through bankruptcy and Anne lost control of the company she started in 2006, she fought to win it back at a court-approved auction and relaunched it as a nonprofit (TTAM Research Institute) — so no single pharma company would ever own your DNA.In this conversation she breaks down what AI + your DNA can actually do for your health right now: predicting disease years before you feel it, the genetic risk factors everyone should test for, why the healthcare system is built to treat disease instead of preventing it, and the small daily habits that move the needle most.She also opens up about the hardest year of her life — losing her sister, former YouTube CEO Susan Wojcicki, to lung cancer, going through bankruptcy, and why she refused to walk away. Plus: raising kids as a founder, having a baby at 45, co-parenting with her ex-husband Sergey Brin, and the single smartest thing you can do for your body in 2026.Links:📌 Subscribe to my free newsletter where I go deeper on AI tools, career strategies, and building with AI: ⁠⁠⁠https://siliconvalleygirl.beehiiv.com/subscribe?utm_source=spotify&utm_medium=video&utm_campaign=futureproof-sub&utm_content=ErikBrynjolfsson⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠𝕏 : ⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/siliconvalleymm⁠⁠⁠🔗 Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/siliconvalleygirl/⁠⁠⁠💼 LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marinamogilko⁠⁠⁠📌 My Companies & Products: ⁠⁠⁠https://Marinamogilko.co

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Every single person can benefit from genetic information and use that to. to modify and prevent disease. This is Anne. She built 23 and me, a genetic testing company that provides ancestry breakdowns and health predisposition insights. More than 14 million people have used its DNA tests, helping build one of the world's largest genetic data sets.

Then it all collapsed. Her board resigned and she lost her company. 2004 was a brutal year for you with bankruptcy and having to buy out your company. Did you ever have thoughts of giving up? I thought about it a lot because everything is pointing in the direction that things are not going well. But after winning a court-approved auction, she bought the company back and turned it into a non-profit. Now she's working to combine DNA datasets with AI to help people catch disease before they feel it.

What can AI plus DNA do now what a doctor couldn't do five years ago? You can pull in your medical record. Link all this then with your genetics and understand where you could potentially intervene today. and change the outcome. From all the data that you're seeing, what do you think of the diseases that have the best chance of being cured or treated

in a different way in the next five years? I think a couple things. One, my audience really loves using AI for everything. What can AI plus DNA do now what a doctor couldn't do five years ago? I love that. And I feel like we're finally getting to the point where everything that we set out to do back in 2006

can start to happen. and that really revolves around preventing disease. And I think the fundamental issue in the health care system is that when you go to the doctor today, they're compensated to treat disease. Like almost no aspect of health care rewards you and makes money on disease prevention. And so it's really going to fall in the hands of you, the consumer, like you, the individual, are going to have to leverage all these different ways, you know, all these different means that are now in your power to start to understand what your health risks are. then to help start to manage that more and more. And so 23 and me started with this idea is that the most fundamental layer of your health is your genetics.

So for example, if you want to be healthy and you're worried about all your cholesterol numbers and let's say you just have very high numbers and you have a genetic risk factor called familial hypocholostromia. That's me. Is it really? Yes. Okay. So you're a prime example of this.

Like no matter what you do with your diet, you need to take a stat. You have to take a statin. And so it's that type of thing. It's like you find out that you have something. You have high cholesterol numbers. But there's a limit to how much the environment can be modified to impact that. So you have to go on a therapy. And there's the aspects of, for instance, in cancer, like if you have hereditary colon cancer, hereditary breast cancer, you need more proactive screening.

You know, environment definitely makes a difference there, but you have to be proactive with the medical world. And so for me, your genetics was always this core layer where you have to understand genetically, do you have a significant risk factor? Where are you on the spectrum? For heart disease, for cancer risk, for, you know, other things that could be passed down to your children. Like, understanding all of that is really step one. What's amazing today is that you can pull in all this other information, your wearable information, your zip coat has your air quality and your water quality. you can pull in your medical record. And you can link all this then with your genetics and really understand are there signs,

are there things happening where you could potentially intervene today, either with a medical world or with your lifestyle and change the outcome. So for instance, even like with my mom, types of things I look at like were genetically higher risk for type 2 diabetes. People in the family had type 2 diabetes. my mom knew that she was pre-diabetic. You know, I put on a CGM on her. And suddenly she's like, oh, my God, like, I can now change my behaviors.

So it was a combination of her genetics, her medical records, her blood values, and then using a new tool like a CGM or, again, you can be able to use aura rings, other things as well, to then actually change your behavior. So that's going to be the magic of AI, is combining all of that together. And your genetics is going to be what powers the customization of all this other information coming in and knowing where do you need to be proactive with your lifestyle and where do you need to be proactive medically. How do you know how much genetics are actually contributing? Because if you look at cancer stats, it says on average it's 70 to 90 percent environmental for coronary diseases. Same. 79%.

How do you know that for you specifically, it's mostly genetics or it's mostly environment so you can control and take out? There's two types of reports, what we call monogenic risk, and that's where you can get like familiar hypocelastremia. One variant that says you are much higher risk based on this one variant. And so in some ways, those general numbers are not meaningful to you as an individual. They're meaningful to a population, but not meaningful to you. So you have one monogenic variant, and it puts you really high risk for heart disease or sudden cardiac death or high cholesterol, that impacts you. That range is no longer relevant. You have

another area called polygenic risk scores. And polygenic risk is looking at hundreds or thousands of genetic variants that add up into a score. And it puts you almost on like a bell curve. Like, where are you on that curve? Like I can look at my type two diabetes risk. And I'm like fit. I'm healthy. I work out a lot. But genetically, I'm still higher risk. And so for that reason, And that's part of why I can say, okay, I'm higher risk. But there's actually been a lot of data that shows if you manage your environment, if I manage what I eat, I regularly get my hemoglobin A1C test. I use, you know, a continuous glucose monitor.

I stay fit and healthy. I can reduce that risk. So I have a genetic risk factor, but I can reduce it now. When it comes to cholesterol since we touched it, and it's a huge problem for me because I'm 36 and I don't want to go on statins and every doctor, almost every doctor, It's like 10% of doctors are like, we can wait until you have like a third kid because it affects pregnancies and we haven't studied statins and pregnancies, et cetera. But is there any study that shows where, because you mentioned different people react

differently to different drugs? Correct. And ideally, I'd love to do some testing before being put in statins. Is there any research around that that shows that some people don't have to take statins or wouldn't react to that? I think this is, this is the future of personalized medicine. You should have a physician who has a very comprehensive genetics background. And I think that's where you're going to be able to have AI training to say, based on all the literature with genetics, let's no longer look at you just as an average as like a one size fits all of like, here's what we do on a population level with, you know, with, you know, treating high cholesterol that we should actually now understand specifically based on your genetics, based also on pharmacogenetics, because there's interactions of your genetics and statins.

So what's the right one for you and what's the best way for us to reduce that? What are the best prompts that people can put into their AI today to make this kind of personalized health assistance? That is a great question. You know, I think it's still pretty early days. I have to say the areas I've been coaching people the most is around blood values, cancer information, anybody who gets a genetic test in cancer, or even just basic things of like helping understanding. lifestyle information with a hereditary factor like APOE. Based on your age, based on, you know, all your metrics of, you know, your weight, how you are living your life, like, you know, asking it for prompts, you know, ask me 10 questions about my

lifestyle. And including it for something like APOE, what are the things that you can do that can make a difference? APOE can you. APOE is about is the genetic risk factor for Alzheimer's. And so that's one area where we get a lot of questions. from our customers about like, well, what can I do? What can I do for that? And that's where when you go to a traditional doctor, it's going to be worse at finding out, okay, here's your lifestyle

information, what are the things you can do. But there is a lot of research out there that's happening. And more and more, you're finding there's all these, you know, groups coming together to run their own studies about what is it that we can do? What's having an impact? Now you have 14 million people participating in your research. And you said your goal is to get 100 million people. What does this unlock? We see the potential with AI right now. And your listeners definitely are early adopters here. So AI came because all the big tech companies had data. Like they had tons and tons of data. They could invest in training models. Like it came because there was a world of billions of people who contributed data. So in many ways, you need to do

something similar with respect to health care information. And 23 of me, I think as impressive as it is, that we have 14 million and it's the largest genetic data set that's out there, it's only 14 million. And your DNA is fascinating to me because it's a digital code. Every form of life has an AC, G, and T. And so you just have different combinations, different variations, different ways it's organized. And you could be you, you could be a frog, you could be a banana. I find it amazing that you get this kind of genetic, like this variability in the world. So what you need to really understand the code of life is more data.

And you're going to need to train models, not on words, but you're going to need to train models on DNA. And so that's where I look at is like we're at 14 million today. I point to 100 million is sort of the next milestone. But the reality is you're going to need data sets that are massive. So you need more than that? It doesn't, 14 million doesn't really represent a significant group of people to make some conclusions. I mean, what we found is the publication that we had at Noreps actually showed that at over a million people, you start to really get the benefits of training models with AI. And so you get nonlinear improvements with risk prediction.

That for us sort of validated that more and more data, because we get this question from people all the time. Like, why do you need more data? You have enough data. It's funny because we get that a lot from the biotech world. It's like, that's enough data. Why do you need any more? For me, it also looks like like 14 million. Maybe that's.

This is where you see differences. And that's what's been interesting with our background is like, the tech world is recognizes. You always want more data. And the biotech world sometimes like, oh, it's enough. Like you don't necessarily need more. And I think now you're having this convergence where people recognize like to really be able to take advantage of AI. You need to build these extraordinary data sets based on human data. What do you think it's going to unlock?

Like, for example, we can't really treat cancer now on genetic level. Do you think at 100 million we're going to see some facts? what I'm most focused on, if I think about like what do I want? And again, this is like 23 me is very focused on sort of like a single area, which is focused on prediction. And so disease prediction because we all know it's tough. Like if I look at my sister Susan, it was tough having a late stage cancer diagnosis. What you really want to know is are you at risk and then find it at those earliest stages? And that is what I think is exciting as being able to identify something really early. And then also understand the basic biology, why are you getting something? Like,

we don't understand. Like, we know that bodies are constantly getting, you know, you're always under assault. So you always have like little micro cancers. And so why is it that sometimes they take off and sometimes they don't? Yeah, it will be fascinating when you have this DNA, even now with 14 million, when people start adding their whoop information or the lifestyle and then connecting and seeing correlation between lifestyle and genes, that's the most important. I mean, that's what we don't really know. Like lifestyle and people have to recognize the challenge that you have with AI and health is that you have to run experiments.

You have an intervention. And maybe it's that we eliminate microplastics from water. Or you have a new drug that you think is going to prevent heart attacks. But then you have to run the clinical trial to see, do you get that outcome? You have to wait for people to get heart attacks. You have to wait for people to not develop cancer. So it's just hard to run models in the same type of way. And so that's why we're always trying to come up with like, you know,

other types of biology experiments to, you know, mimic what we think is potentially, you know, a biomarker for it. And the more data, the better. What was the more data, the better. This is where we're just getting into those early days of, you know, on AI and all the environmental information. You know, you see this very clearly things like, you know, people who, live near a golf course and people who live near farms, the pesticides.

Yeah. So you can see from a population level, you have increases in areas like, or diseases like Parkinson's. We barely understand the impact of all this environmental damage. I think we're just scratching the surface of what all the environmental impacts are, and it hasn't been that well study. It's hard. It's a hard area to study.

What are you seeing from your data? Are there like top three environmental factors that could affect? your potential risk? I mean, pesticides is one of the biggest. So don't eat non-organic? Is that something that's practical? I think it's, I mean, I actually don't. I mean, in some ways, the debate around organic and non-organic is controversial.

And I haven't, again, I'm not an expert in that area. I mean, I definitely would say, like, don't. Don't live near a farm. Living near. And again, I think that's where there's all the occupational hazard issues, you know, people who are, who don't have a choice. who are spraying pesticides. But, you know, it's very clear that pesticides have health impacts.

And so you look at all of that data. I think air quality is huge. People having filters in their house is important. Like California had all the fires. There's this guy that we fund Charlie Swanton in the UK who has done a fair amount of work on air pollution and the inflammatory effects in your lungs and in your body. So I think air quality makes a huge difference. And I think people, it 100% makes sense to have high quality filters in your house.

And it makes sense to have filters around. I do think water quality, like all of these things really matter for people. And you can test for it. I mean, that's where, like, or you can, the government is constantly testing for it. And you can pull up. It's all publicly available. Yeah. So you can look at these water quality sites.

You can see. And that's, you know, the issue is like not everyone has the choice about where they live. but knowing whether or not you're living near one of these sites makes a difference. I mean, the other thing that's just abundantly clear is the impact of exercise. And, you know, like, I would have ridden my bike to your house, but then I saw how high up on the hill you are. I don't know. And it would have been. People do bike here, but it's.

You're like, you're way up. And I almost always bike, but you were, you're sort of next level. But I do think about that a lot. Like, I'm always trying to. exercise. Like, and even with my kids and other, like, I try to be like, let's do burpees now. Let's do, um, let's do squats. Like, little things make a big difference. Um, we have a trampoline at the house. We're always bouncing. All these things make a big difference. And again, I going back to genetic side, if you know that you have a significant genetic risk in one way or

another, then it can help direct. Where do you want to put your focus? Knowing that you're higher risk for Alzheimer's or Parkinson's, um, there's a lot of data about exercise and, quality of your food and what you can do with that. And like we had someone named Rob Lestig coming yesterday who's a professor at UCSF talking all about, you know, APOE, so Alzheimer's Risk and ultra-processed foods. Oh my God. And it's one thing like I complained to my kid's school. You know, they had a parent event. I always complain. Well, they had a parent event and they were serving hot dogs. And I was like, you know, like it's like the plastic. Do they serve the plastic? She did plastic? No. I don't know who was in plastic, but it's like the one food.

I was like, it's the one food society agrees on is really unhealthy for you. Like, shouldn't we be doing more to train kids in school? Yeah, isn't it proven that processed meat causes? Like, it's cancerogenic. Correct. And like ultra-processed foods are just like the one area you really want to try to avoid. To the question that you had is like what are the top three biggest areas? And I think that's where there's so much data.

Like, again, health care is in human. biology is a lever of complexity that we just like barely scratched the surface on like it's just it will be humbling for the whole world like understanding the the complexity there so using AI to help really understand that I think will will be potentially transformative after what happened with Susan and with her diagnosis have you changed anything in your lifestyle and your kids lifestyle I mean like I think that the number one thing that happened after Susan was diagnosed and I think a lot of for friends of this is they sort of reevaluated what's most important to me. I've been reading this book recently by Eddie Eger called The Choice, a Holocaust survivor

who actually lived to 98. I think there's a big question for people in life about are you doing what's happy, what makes you happy, and that you personally find rewarding and meaningful. What I found impacted us, me the most after Susan was less on lifestyle of like, okay, am I exercising enough? Am I getting enough checkups? But more are you living the life that you actually want? I think there's a number of her friends who changed jobs

made pretty dramatic decisions of like I, like I wasn't. And you have one life and you have, there's a number of things that you can control. But ultimately you also just have, like you always have lightning and you have no idea what's going to strike. You should enjoy every day. And it's kind of the things that Susan said. it's like being meaningful. And again, that's where I do really love this book, the choice of, you know, this ability to choose every single day.

Yeah. To be happy and to appreciate the things around you. And I think that was overwhelmingly the number one thing. And I think it's an interesting component is like we live right now in a time period where it's like everything's moving so fast. Like even this morning I was doing it like a new clodd training. And it was different than like two weeks ago. Oh, yeah. It's different every day. It's different every day. And it's like, things are moving so quickly. And it is exciting. It's an exciting time because we're rebuilding the entire world. But it's also one of those things for people to check in and say, like, are you doing something that brings you true meaning? Yeah. And, you know, it's one of the things that was really clear with Susan is, you know, when she died and she was saying like, you know, if you're all left behind, like, do things that are meaningful with your life. And I think that's something that that resonates the most with me.

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100%, but were you able to identify any causes to why that happened to her or it's still? No, I mean, we all think about, I will never know. You think so? No, you'll never know. I think that there's always going to be a combination of factors. So clearly we're running right now the 23 Me lung cancer study. I'm super interested to understand genetics. Like, do we have, like, there's no polygenic risk score for lung cancer right now.

Like we don't understand why so many women who were never smokers are getting lung cancer. So is there a risk factor? Like I would love to understand that. And is there some kind of susceptibility? Like are some people more susceptible to pollution? People have reached out to me now who have lung cancer, who were triathletes and runners. Is there something then about increased exposure to air quality? Like you just have no idea.

I think the thing that is not well studied is stress. people having chronic stress and high cortisol level and just never being able to have a downtime. I can hypothesize all I want about all these things that impacted Susan, but I can say without a doubt, like she had a high stress job. I don't think we'll ever know, but I know that prospectively, like the 23 me lung cancer community is looking specifically at like can I identify genetic risk factors that made people at risk for lung cancer. I would love to, as we more and more into AI and multimodal data and I can look at environmental factors like zip codes of where people are getting diagnosed, environmental information, how often are they exercising?

And we 23 of me links up now with Apple Health Kit and we pull in, we have about half a million customers who are consented and giving us their wearable data. So their watch data or or ring data and then we can pull in medical records. And so we have a number, we have, you know, 50 plus thousand people who are consenting and us medical records. And then we have all the self-report data. So pulling all that together, and I'm eager to look at stress data that ORA ring is starting to put. Like, can we actually start to understand what are some of those factors? It's a complex problem. But I think the next five years can be transformative with how we can understand environment and your risk factors and

your life. Stress is also this funny thing. I feel like I'm stressed all the time, but then you look at my whoop. It's pretty calm. nothing's happening. Well, there's good stress and there's bad stress. Maybe something's still like, can you turn it off in some way? And I do think, like, knowing you and seeing you with like your kids and your dog, like, you seem to enjoy them. Yeah, I love that.

It's just a lot sometimes. It's a lot. Yeah, but just because it's stressful in the moment is like, oh my God, I have to go and volunteer and like do this. And like, it's a lot. But then I do think there's good stress and there's bad stress. And I think they've quantified in some ways and looking at, even like it's hard to fully understand stress.

And I think ORA has a feature now on stress. And I think it's just it's those early days. Like no one's measuring your cortisol yet of like, can you actually measure chronically? Continuous. But I think that we're getting towards that. Like there's some of these devices. I think it was device for continuous cortisol.

Yeah. There's some that are coming out. And I think that's where it's not going to be everyone in the population who constantly wants to measure everything. But at least for a couple of weeks. Like with a glucose monitor, at least you can. can figure out what effects.

Right. And I think I love doing it, like when I'm doing talks or other things or just even like, like we've had all the graduations, which has been a lot like measuring for a period of time. Yeah. We'll be interesting for people to understand like what are those behaviors? From all the data that you're seeing, what do you think of the diseases that have the best chance of being cured or treated in a different way in the next five years? I think a couple things.

One, I'm Jewish. I find it absolutely the crazy that the Jewish community does not own the responsibility for the next generation to all have genetic testing. And the Jewish community has the higher rates of hereditary conditions and conditions like BRCA variant for breast cancer, ovarian cancer, prostate cancer. Like, why doesn't everyone know? Like, why is anyone dying of a BRCA variant? Especially when there's things that you can do. If you know you have it, you can have a prophylactic mastectomy. You can have, you know, you have kids earlier, take out your ovaries, like you can have more aggressive screening. Like,

there's things you can do. So I look at that's one area where there just should be, this is a community that should step up and have proactive testing and no one in the next generation should be surprised. Cardiovascular, there's so many genetic variants that if you know ahead of time, you can absolutely manage them like you with familiar hypercholostromia. I've met so many people in this journey who are like, oh, I have this like really high cholesterol and I'm like, I'm eating kale every day. And I'm like, you know, you might, you might want the genetic test. And then you just, there's aspects that you can change and aspects where you can prevent. Like you can medicate and you can prevent. I think in cancer, hereditary cancer is one of those areas.

Like, we know there's a number of genetic variants that can put you at high risk. Genetic testing now is so inexpensive. And those people should. should never be surprised. And that's where I look at, like cancer, heart disease, the Jewish community. You have all these other areas, the African American community as well, with sickle cell, a condition called TTR amelodosis, there's chronic kidney disease. Every single person can benefit from genetic information and use that to modify and prevent disease.

But I do look at, like, the Jewish population, African American population. frankly, you know, cardiovascular disease and cancer, I think you should be able to have a significant, like, you know, remove the very regrettable deaths that happened because people had a risk factor and they didn't know. Totally. And we already saw a kid being treated with them modifying in how they get processed protein, modifying their gene. You mean baby KJ? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Baby KJ is amazing. How far are we from doing this to common diseases? Because I think, think what I've heard is that it's mostly like those genetic diseases you're born with so you can modify a gene. Can we in five years just if you're predisposed to breast cancer, just modify the gene?

This is outside of my area. But if you look at Jennifer Dowdna and people in the CRISPR field and there's a number of experts in this and I sat at a conference recently with one of them and he was just like, you know, so passionate. Like every disease is genetic and we should be able to like, we're at the beginning of a CRISPR era where you should be able to figure out like cystic fibrosis or you with familiar hypoglycemia or brocacavarian like there should be a world where that's coming where you can fix that we're not there yet okay but baby kj is a pretty amazing yeah it's the first it's the first it's the first the future i remember when there's the first IVF children and it was like like it was so extraordinary and now it's so common yeah so i think we're the next 20

years will be, you know, a blow extraordinary in that way. Hopefully sooner as well. I was just talking to an economics professor from Stanford yesterday and he said in the next two or three years, we're going to see in something dramatic. It's going to happen because of AI that's going to change our lives. I'm always more hesitant than health care. Like I'm a little bit always of the Debbie Downer because, like, you still have to do human clinical trials. You still have the FDA. There's going to be issues. Like, it's not going to be perfect the first time. So I always try to set expectations. Biotech is not the transformative, you know, industry that's going to, like, change in the next five years. I think that there's all kinds of things that are happening in the early stage of discovery,

but you have to then translate out that those discoveries and those insights actually lead to drug discovery. When I was in my investing days, there was all these technologies on, like, high-throughput chemistry and all these, you know, high-throughput ways of doing biology that were important techniques, but, you know, fundamentally 90% of drugs all fail. And it was 500 million to develop a drug back when I started and now it's like $4 billion to develop a drug. So, all right, maybe it's like $2 billion. We're not getting better is my key point. And so the only thing, the reason why 23 me got in drug discovery is because one of the only areas that was seen to improve the outcome

and the likelihood of success was starting with a human genetic insight. And so, So we know that starting with human genetic insight means that your drug is more likely to succeed. We don't yet know on AI how much that's going to help it. So I'm super optimistic and I love that there's all this money going to the space. But I'm always like cautious to the broad population to not overset expectations that you're going to have a radical change in the next five years. Yeah, just eat whatever you want. I think the radical change that you can have in the next five years is risk prediction.

I think 100% you should be able to predict who's most likely to have breast cancer, colon cancer, heart disease, like 100%. And then you should allocate resources based on that. What do you think are the top three things that everyone should do after listening to this conversation in regard to their health? Because when I was at Susan's foundation launch, I was like, okay, I need to do this pre-newvo scan. Yeah, yeah. I have done my 23 and me. Then I'm going to connect all of that with AI and see what it tells me. Do you think it's a decent, decent plan?

I think that the most important thing, 23Me has three different products. We have a product called Total Health. Total Health is your exome. So it's a deeper level of sequencing and it's blood. Everyone from a medical perspective should go and get that. It's the gold standard, what people want to be able to go and get. So it's better than spitting. It's two products.

So the DNA is still spitting. But at some point you want to get your blood. You want to be able to understand your blood as well. And so Pernuvo is super interesting. and I'm an investor in it. I do it every year. There's still like a world of people all assessing, like exactly what do you do with this information?

And I recognize there's people who are anxious because you'll find all kinds of things. And so it's for people who want to embrace, like I can handle it. If you go and you tell me you have like a strange lump in your uterus, you're not going to freak out and that you're okay to follow up because you'll find a lot of things. And some of them, like I know lots of people who found

brain tumors and heart issues and aneurysms. Like the stories are astounding, but you also have stories of people saying, oh, they found something and it was nothing and I had this whole workup. That's where Prunovo, I think, is doing a lot of work to understand exactly how you want to do an MRI. I do annual chest CTs. So a low dose chest CET is minimal radiation. I'm in a category that's genetically higher risk now because Susan had it.

And I do that. And there's amazing AI work here where, And this is part of what the Susan Wojcicki Foundation was also part of in helping to support is can you use your, my chest CT to give me a five-year prediction. So when do I- able to identify the early stages? Right. So when do I need to get another scan?

Similar to a colonoscopy when you go and they say like, do you need to come back in two years? You need to get back in 10 years. So it's going to be a similar kind of experience there. The other thing that's important for people to recognize is like health can be really stressful and triggering for some people. So some people, we get Brian Johnson, who like obviously loves testing everything. And I'm so grateful to him because he tests all kinds of things that I do not want to test. He's testing all of it. I get other people, like I had dinner with someone last night who's like, I don't like getting blood. And so there's an element of choice and respect

for people. Like people should all have. And there's people who are going to be pioneers helping to sort of pioneer what is this revolution and like what are we all learning together. And so for those people, like you're doing blood twice a year, you're doing your genetics, you're doing per newvo, you're doing as many scans as you can, you're like putting all that data together. The stuff that's really validated for people is like having a baseline genetics, making sure that you're doing the core blood tests and that you're doing all of the preventative screens, that makes sense for you. It all comes down to discipline as well, because your AI can tell you anything, but then you have

to go and execute and, yes, getting those annual checkups to see how you're progressing or what's changing? And this is where I do think, like, aura and all these, you know, your Apple Watch are amazing at predicting changes. And even, you know, we had a friend who just had a health issue and it was amazing how Apple, the Apple Watch, you know, triggers and says, like, oh, you know, you were unstable the day before. And so having those, and that's what I love looking at is the patterns of like, oh, why, you've really been sleeping worse. Like what happened? And like, I stopped wearing the aura ring when Susan was sick. I was like, I don't need you to go and tell me that I'm stressed out.

I'm aware. But like having the trends over time and watching things, like I'm 52 now, like understanding how my body is changing and what do I need to do? And like, am I sleeping better? It's actually nice to have data and to understand that. And I was really clear. I was like, okay, I'm going to start going to bed earlier. And I can see a difference.

Like when I'm in bed reading on my phone versus I turn off social media and I just go straight to sleep and I read a paper book. I see the difference in quality. Yeah. And so, like, that's where data has helped me. Totally. Quick pause. My team and I are celebrating one year of the Silicon Valley Girl podcast.

I know the channel has existed for a while, but a year ago, I made a decision to focus on amazing conversations with people who are building our future with AI. And for a whole year, we work to bring you the biggest founders and builders in AI so you can keep up in this era and get inspired. If you love what we're doing, please subscribe and hit the notification bell. It's what helps us bring you the biggest minds of our lifetime. Thank you so much for being here. I want to focus in this conversation as well on your mindset as a founder

because a lot of your bets, I think all of your bets, because you're doing 23 and me, I want to talk about downtown Los Altos, you're doing Susan's Foundation. They're all long-term bets. How does your mind function in the world where every day there's something shiny, something fancy, And all of your beds are like 10 plus years. You know, it's interesting because when I was driving up here and I was talking to some of the bankers about this SpaceX IPO. I knew Elon because of Sergey. And I remember in like the very earliest days when he was starting Tesla and he would stay with us.

And he would, he was so consistent talking about his vision of like Tesla in the space world and the potential. I have to say like it's complete kudos. of like, when you think of like long-term vision, the world, and I look at all around us, like everything that's happened today, to make significant changes in the world, you have to have a long-term vision. And you have to be so consistent and maniacal about doing that.

And you have to also love what you do. And that's where like I look at, again, I talk ad nauseum about like how much I love genetics. And but I do, again, it just occurred to me thinking this morning is like people who love what they do, you have a long-term vision and you're consistent with it and it never feels like work. And every single day builds on the previous days. And so I look at 23 and me every single day I walk into the office and I'm fascinated by the

research that we can do. Like what motivates me every day is this idea of when I'm helping people. Like I always wanted to be a doctor, but I feel like now I'd like, I help more people because I help connect on identity. I help connect on family connections, like reuniting all these people. And we save lives. Like I give people valuable information about themselves. And then the research is like, I mean, for me, it's, again, my dad who love neutrinos,

like, and he loves space and all that. Like, I was like, hey, you like looking up in the sky and I like looking inner. I like find that there's an entire universe in every cell. we understand nothing about it. Like even I was with somebody talking about like the beauty of the mitochondria and like that you have this like power engine and how it works. Like we understand so little. Yeah.

And that's what I love. Like every day it's like little tiny bricks coming together to build this foundation of knowledge. And it's so interesting. And again, that's what like I always advise kids. Like whatever you do like make it. So every day you have like that spark of. of joy, we're like, oh, that was so cool. What was fun is like when we first moved into Los Altos, it was a pretty sleepy town.

And there wasn't much, like, there wasn't much going on at night. There wasn't much for the kids to do. And, you know, I have to say, it's like, it's been such a pleasure because, like, you can buy buildings. I bought buildings. And, and then I could bring in, you know, really extraordinary owners who, love what they do. So like lindenry. It's an amazing bookstore. You know, bookstores, and this is where I was like, I have a pleasure. I can like help get a building. I can renovate it and make it

nice. And then, you know, create an environment and an economic environment where it can support a children's bookstore. We started state street market so that we could have. The best. Thank you so much. So my whole idea there was like, I want to go somewhere where I can bring the whole family and everyone's happy. And in the earliest days, I remember I would go out. We had 17 people in the family. And like, one, you call a restaurant. You're like, I need a reservation for 17. Everyone's like, no. And they hang up. So now, like, it's easy to go. Everyone's happy. No one's fighting. And if, like, a child throws spaghetti, like, it's not a big deal. And so I wanted something that was truly multi-generational. And I think it's also, I think society, it's important you have multi-generation.

It's important that young people are exposed to older generations and that people in the mid-life, you have support for your kids and, you know, that you can support your parents, that, you know, your kids are supported. Like, I just think multi-generation is so, it's so valuable for how everyone grows. I think that's your Slavic jeans playing out. Yeah, because, you know, we were, I was raised by my grandparents. Everyone lived together. And it was like a small apartment, but my grandparents come over, will sleep on the floor. Yeah. But they will help raise me.

In the U.S., I don't see that. Parents are very lonely. They move to another town, sometimes another country. And so you were just raising a kid in a completely different environment. Yeah. And the sense of community is getting lost, especially in big cities. Well, that's why I wanted, because I think so many people come, so many people are in Los autos and they are immigrants, they don't have family around.

And so my whole thought process was like, well, how can we use down? downtown Los Altos as a community. And it's also really fun to get kids excited about the different businesses. So I love, you know, like when we did the arcade, I would ask my kids. I was like, okay, make a business plan for each machine. Nice. Like, you know, tell me what machine you want. My son the other day, like, wanted some machine.

It was like $200,000. I was like, okay, well, like, just do the math on that one. When do you get an ROI on that kind of machine? Great test. But it's good. Like, I want more and more for kids also to be able to learn. I think also learning about business and having lots of small business owners is great because you want, I want kids to be able to like understand that they can create as well. Like you, um, you have an idea of like my daughter wants, you know, a clothing store or something like, or like I always think about like should 23 me create a retail store like a like be able to walk in.

Like an experience. Yeah. An experience. I think it would be so fun. So I'm always, I'm always thinking about that. I'm always thinking about what else can I create. Thank you so much for downtown. Yeah. And all the things that you were doing, so 2024 was a brutal year for you with bankruptcy and having to buy out your company. Did you ever have thoughts of giving up? Like, this is not something I want to do.

I just want to live a happy life. I thought about it a lot. Like, do I, because it became, you know, there's moments where I'm like, is this a sign from God that, like, I should give up? Because, like, everything is pointing in the direction that things are not going well. You know, there was, I called a friend who had also started a company and given it up and had walked away. And he, he was like, look, I think about it every single day of my life. He's like, I just always regret.

He's like, I just, I wish I hadn't. And in some ways, it's, I felt like I had a responsibility. Like, one, I love 23 me. So there was a selfish component of like, I just love it. The second thing is, like, I felt a real moral responsibility to my customers, all 14 million. and my employees. And the responsibility that I felt was that I promised them that 23ME was going to be a company, a mission-driven company, focused on helping people access, understand, and benefit

from the human genome. I really believe strongly that you want the company that owns that genetic information should be a neutral party, meaning that they should be supporting research all around the world, but it should not be owned by a single pharma company. It should not be owned by a single entity. And I thought about like my sister, like my deceased sister, her genetic information's in 23 me. I don't want that owned by a single company. I want every single researcher in the world who's doing lung cancer work to have access to be able to make a difference. And like this is a community that came together to make a difference. I felt this huge moral responsibility that I should do whatever I

could to make sure that we were true to that mission. And I feel really lucky. I feel really, really lucky that I got it. And I'm not a person that was like, oh, I really wanted to just like hang out and like sit at the pool all day. I would love slightly more work life balance. And I would, like I am trying to take like have, again, now I have an amazing, I have 175 people at the company, have an amazing management team. So I have more of that time to do things like this and to you know, volunteer at my kid's school and things like that. But, you know, it's kind of all the things that we talked about at the very beginning is that you want to do something in your life every single day that brings meaning. Yeah. And if I thought of, again, anything that I learned from Susan was

like contributing on a daily basis and feeling like you're having an impact on the world is the most important thing. And it was a really, really hard year. And there's definitely things I would have changed. But I love what I do. What's your key learning from that year? There's a dark side and then there's like the positive side. I think the dark side was, I was really surprised that how many people backed away from helping me. I was really surprised in bankruptcy at, you know, the friends who showed up. And so I think it kind of came to me as a bit as like, you know, you do live. We're in Silicon Valley.

It's a very competitive, aggressive environment. And I have always, like I operate in a way where I. feel like I try to always be honorable and I try to be genuine and ethical. I think that was like one of the hardest things for me is like, wow, like I'm, I might be playing in the wrong community and in a community of people that are not necessarily there to support. I think on the positive side, the thing that impressed me the most was, you know, my customers and my employees who rose to the challenge. I couldn't do it without them. And they were there. They stuck with it. And they also, like, they embody the mission and they care and they feel this responsibility and that passion.

And there's really good people in the world. You have to just make sure that you spend the time with them and align yourself. Like, I feel really, really good every single day that I feel like I'm doing things that make a difference. Like, I'm doing things that make a difference with 23M. I'm totally unfettered on making decisions that are really about best interest of humanity. I love what I do with Los Altos. I love what I do with Susan Wojiski Foundation. And I work with extraordinary people. Having a community that supports you and supports the mission and you can trust them is a really special thing.

So, you know, I think about, like, community is a theme that I have throughout my life. Like, I have my family I'm really close to. I've tried really hard to build a community. community in Los Altos. I have a very strong 23 Me community and I try to have a really strong like 23Me experience and ecosystem. Be a brand that fundamentally is always going to be trusted and have the back of customers. I really like what you said about being true to yourself. It's tempting to be dishonest to chase success, especially in Silicon Valley. When everyone's moving so fast, some people are cheating. I love that. Whenever I think about projects, I think about

how can I do them long term and be true to myself. My parents and like my grandparents and everyone, like I think also people, again, you're an immigrant. Like I'm my parents, my dad, you know, escaped communism and his father was imprisoned by Stalin. And I just think about like the really important decisions that people made that really impact society. And I want to be somebody who's like always operating with that kind of, you know, ethical compass. Yeah. Talk to me about your kids. Yeah. They're cute.

They are. And you made such an inspiring decision. Like, I've never thought about that when I realized you had a baby at 40. 45. So I told you, I really want a third kid, but I don't feel like I'm ready. Like, these two are a lot. Talk to me about that decision. Did you have any concerns about having a kid at that age? Being divorced was really, really hard for me. There's the aspects of like the loss of a family. But there was also the loss of like, oh, my God, I want to have more kids. I felt really determined that I was not going to let, you know, a marital status impact my decision to have kids. And at the same time, I think I always joked with people that the only thing worse than one custody agreement is two custody agreements. And so I was, I was very gun shy.

I was like, okay, am I actually going to reproduce with like another consenting individual? I ran into my OB one day at Pets and I was like, oh, I want to have another child. And she was like, you do? And I was like, oh, shit. You know, you're right. Like I should get on this. And, you know, they kind of torture you going through a donor, a sperm donor process where you have to like, like do all these therapy meetings.

Did you pick a scientist or something or someone with a PhD? Yeah. No, I wanted to find somebody who was going to characteristics that would be, that would match in well. And I, listen, I, like, it was, it was one of those things. Like, I was really, I went into it. I, again, you have to go through all this therapy. And everyone told me, you're never going to get pregnant. You're never going to get pregnant.

And so you had to do all these therapy sessions doing it. I was like, I get it, you guys. Like, I'm old and my numbers are bad. But I'm just going to try it. Because if you don't try, you never know. You never know. But I didn't even do a pregnancy test because I was like, ah, there's no reason. First attempt, it worked?

No, the first, I actually got pregnant the first time and then I miscarried. But I was like, holy cow, like the machine works. And then a couple months later, I got pregnant. And I just, and I was almost in denial. Like, even at eight months, I was still like riding my bike around. And I was like, ah, like, I think I'm pregnant. So it was an easy pregnancy? Yeah.

I'm so lucky. I mean, I'm so, so lucky. And I feel for all the people who've had, like, tough reproductive journeys and all this. And I do think on all these areas like stress, again, going back to stress and that impact, like the fact that I really went into it, like, okay. Like, I don't think I'm going to get pregnant and I have to just be okay that like I have two really amazing children. Like I always tell people, like walking, having a mentality where you know failure is the likely outcome. But you're trying still. Yeah.

And it helps. It helps. It doesn't foot much stress on what you're doing. Again, it was a whole journey of like, okay, well, like, now I'm having, I'm doing this on my own. And I had, you know, one of my best friends at the late. Like, my labor was a party because I had, I was like, I was like, a communal. We're like, all going to raise this baby. And it was so fun.

Family is the best. And I spend a lot of time with family. I dedicate a huge amount of my energy to the family. And, you know, part of it is like you have to invest. Like, good relationships come with investment. But I am really lucky to, you know, have three kids that are all, you know, so far pretty nice to me. I was raising her, like the early days when you were 45. Yeah, all good.

Is it easier than the first. Yeah, because the big kids help. Oh, okay. I'm a big believer. Like, people having an age gap is really fun because you're just so much more relaxed. And also, you're more secure with your job. You know, where you're doing? It's a third kid.

You're just secure with everything. And the big kids come in to help. You can go out to dinner and they watch them. And you're just, like, you know that they're likely to survive. Like, you're not so incompetent that you'll do. Like, you're just, and you're comfortable with school and, like, clothes. And, I mean, it's amazing. Like, my daughter doesn't have to buy anything because, like, we just, like, we have this closet.

You saved all of it? Okay, good. Well, we saved, like, not only, like, some people come to the house and they're like, why, your house is like a playground. I'm like the, I'm, like, the. Accumulating. It's like a funnel. Like, all the kids.

stuff from like all 10 like it's all come down to us and so we have like tons and tons of items from the last 20 years do you have any hard rules when it comes to being a working mom like I'm home by six I don't work on weekends there's no difference like before I had kids I was like a machine like I was like always working I remember I would sleep and like my blackberry was like next to my head like it was like my companion I mean now I'm very clear like I go to bed when the kids go to bed I try to almost never do a dinner and in those early days with the kid. Like, and early on, like, my kids came on a lot of my trips. I try, I'm not good with boundaries.

Like, I remember my son at the European Society of Human Genetics. And I told him, I was like, take a notepad and go and interview the different. It was like, seven. And I gave him a little notepad, and he was walking around to all the booths. And I was like, just interview people and ask them questions and then come back in an hour. Oh, that's great experience. It was great. But he came back.

And I remember he was like, I've learned genetics is very important. I'm so proud. Good. But I try to almost always do dinner. I think the other thing is don't, like you have to show up. Like I have to, like I try to volunteer pretty regularly with the kids. The older kids are cute. They'll say like, oh, you don't have to drive me so and so on where.

But they actually really want you to. And so showing up is meaningful. And you have to then really prioritize. What do you do at work? And I think for me, also as a leader, I try to make sure that trickles down to everybody and be really respectful of people at dinner time and at like seeing their children's performances or somebody's moving their child into college. Like having true work life balance and respecting people's is important. And I think as a leader of a

company, if we want to change society, you have to honor and respect that people also have to support their families. Totally. And so like if if the world is saying, like, oh, there's, you know, fertility crisis. You have to have more children. Okay, have more children, but then you have to be work-friendly. And so you can't have both. You can't be like, oh, it's a 9-96 world. Six weeks off after we produce.

It's like, it's not feasible. And so I had, I mean, that was the thing. I had, 23 Me does hire a lot of women. And so, like, I regularly had, like, I would, like, be breastfeeding with my child and, like, in meetings and, like, doing different things. Like, everyone, it just became very normal. My primary rule is, again, to be super friendly, family friendly as a company to make sure that I sort of ruthlessly prioritize what's actually important and to be home at a reasonable time. Makes sense.

I wanted to ask you about being married to Sergey. I don't know if you want to answer it, but it's just I wonder if two very ambitious people who have their companies can coexist in a marriage with kids. What would be your lawyer? Well, our example said no. Yeah. So I think it definitely can. What helps survive? Help.

You know what's interesting. Like I remember talking to Jane, the CEO of Citibank, who, and I have to say, give kudos to Citigroup that she, when her kids were little, she took off. I can't remember if she stopped working or if she went part time for a while. But like she recognized at some point, like, I'm taking on more responsibility now. I need more of that time. And then went back and obviously went on to be incredibly successful. I think in a relationship, it's always, it's always a push and pull.

And in the early days, my kids wanted me all the time. And it was hard. Like, my kids, like, really wanted me around all the time and they wanted to be at my house all the time. They're older now. And, you know, like, frankly, like, my kids are, like, really clear. They're like, you're not helping us with math homework. That is. And, or, like, if they're 3D printing stuff, they're like, you know, there's some things, mom that you're good at.

And there's some things we go to him for. You know, I think it's, you, you kind of step in and out at different times. So I think that's the beauty of a relationship that works well is that you can support, like it's pistons, it's piston engine and you're just, you know, responsive at different times. But it is that recognition. Like, it's hard. Like, who's going to cook? Who cleans?

I mean, like the amount. Who gets to travel? Because it's only one person who can travel at a time. I mean, in the early days for me, because. my kids wanted to be with me all the time, they were, like, traveling with me. And I remember I have this image of us, like, going at the train in D.C. And I'm, like, carrying car seats and, like, the kids. And I was like, oh, my God. And you have a meeting to prep. Oh, 100%. And I remember the, I mean, the stuff that we did. It was like, it was so crazy. Even I remember after the FDA warning

letter and, you know, being at the White House. And I was like, can I bring my kids? And how old were they? Like then. Small enough to spill M&Ms all over the floor. It was hard. It's like definitely it's it's I like like respect like for all working parents recognizing it's hard. And if you have two people who have like high pressure jobs. And that's the reality for a lot of people in Silicon Valley because you won't survive here

otherwise. I know. You can't survive one in. Well, I think this is where you need community. Comes back to yeah. 100%. I look at like there was one day where my youngest again, I had meetings. I had something to do.

And I was just like calling my neighbors. I'm like, so what's your daughter doing right now? Do you want my daughter too? And they were so great. They're like 100% bring her over. Like, well, you know, and she had the time of her life. She was so happy. So leveraging the community is the only way you can survive.

You have to support each other. And I think that's where like the pandemic did open the world of like, okay, we can have, you know, people who are remote people, like lots of people at 23 moved home, you know, moved away to be near family who could help with kids, like, completely understand. Like, all of that is key. Like, it's hard. Like, you have to have support. Tough, but somehow we're making it work. Yeah. With the dog on your lap. Yeah. That's how. Right. All right. One last question. Can you finish this sentence for everyone who's watching? The smartest thing you can do for your body in 2026 is one, everyone should get genetic testing.

hands down like everyone should know what their genic wrist is second exercise every day just like right now every day a hundred like but small things and I think people shouldn't get overwhelmed do 50 squats a day broken up into five segments like do 10 we're going to do we're going to do squats after this like because we've been sitting for an hour like just something small the way to build the habit is like you just do something small every day and then I'd say like cut out soda oh even probiotic What do you have with you? What kind of son-in? I think that was just fricking water.

I have, in general, like, I was thinking about, like, understanding what your core risks are. And then exercise makes a huge difference in your life. Yeah. And so, like, the more you can just integrate it into your life, like, take the stairs instead of the elevator, you know, do some jumping jacks. Like, if your kids are playing, you play, move around, get a walking, like a standing desk, things like that. Like, it makes a huge difference. like walk the dog um but like all of that makes a big difference and then on food like my kids are really good we have a garden but i try to make them like have a salad have cucumbers like my kids are

very good at eating cucumbers with salt but like just something like i avoid sugar like i and as soon as i cut it out it's like i never want it again so like i just never um have like soda like sugar water is like one of the worst things for you i always have my vegetables love it thank you so much and And it looks like what you are doing has come together in this day and age with AI. Yeah. It looks like you've been preparing for this. I mean, I think that that I mean, going back to sort of where we started, I do feel like, you know, 23 of me in many ways has just been very early. We set out, like I look at my deck, my fundraising deck from 2013.

It was like, you know, we're not a genetic testing company. Like we're not just, you know, an ancestry company. Like we're a big data company. And that goal has always been like fundamentally, if you can understand the human genome, we can all benefit. And so that's why the mission has always been, you know, help people access, understand, and benefit from it. We're set up, like everything about how we set up our research infrastructure and how we consent people. And we give people choice and transparency. And we've created this community.

It's like 14 million people, 90% have opted into research. We collect tons of information on, we ask our customers questions, like, you know, do you have dogs? or you do have allergies. And we can do extraordinary research. People have no idea how many insights we have across everything from like fun phenotypes, like, you know, handedness. Are you left handed, right handed, eye color, medication response, you know, pet allergies, cancer risk, like all of it.

It's extraordinary. And suddenly now with AI, it needs data sets. And, you know, the number one thing for us blocking, you know, 23 meet. Again, we have the NERIP's paper on doing risk prediction. Like, what we need next is just like we have capital. We're capital constrained and I'm resource constrained. But those are all things that we'll fix in time. And so, but the world is suddenly prime.

Like the technologies there. We have the data that's there. And I have customers who are hungry to say, like, let's go and we want to be healthier. We want to prevent disease. And like the world is 100% moved into that space now. And that's amazing that you never gave up. Yeah, we're stubborn.

Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. So inspiring. Thank you.