SmartLess - "Ben Stiller"

Episode Date: May 23, 2022

We go into some deep shoppe-talk with the hilarious and ultra-talented Ben Stiller. We cover all the necessary nuances, like applying makeup in front of your children, proper neck tattoos, and motivation behind a numb ear. Plus, Ben officially commits to giving Sean his Oscar Levant portrait.Please support us by supporting our sponsors!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

A smart list of listeners that's Will, um, I just, uh, snuck in here, because I, I really wanted to connect with you guys, you know, just us, just one-on-one, just being honest, just sharing experiences, and really breaking down all these barriers, you know. Anyway, this has been great. All right, let's go with an all-new smart list. So, uh, listener, uh, Arnett's got his TV hair on right now. It looks incredibly handsome. They just snapped it in. You're, uh, you're on a lunch break. Is that right? Down there in Atlanta? Indeed. And what are you going to have for lunch today, aside from a great interview? You know, today for lunch, I think I'm having, it's a, uh, a salad. It's a Mediterranean salad.

I've been eating these great, by the way, if there's anybody in, you're in the Atlanta area and looking for some food. My friend Brandy down here, she has a nice little business. She makes food for people. Someone just got a deal on their monthly expenditure. No, I'm already done. I'm already done. Speller last name. No, it just, it's, I think it's like, what's her website? She works in a lot of people and she, I gotta say, incredibly good, delicious. I'm already done. I've already fully paid so that I'm not getting anything out of it other than she's so good at what she does. And I really, and a person who works super hard and always delivers, I've been really impressed with it. Enough. You know what I noticed the other day too? I want to say this. You know, when you go online,

sometimes you go on Twitter and you see people going, especially people who have the hashtag relatable. Did you just give a recommendation for a personal chef? If anyone's in ever in Atlanta. So relatable. Yeah. I'm just sorry. Sorry. To movie and TV stars. Sorry. That's what I meant to say. Any, any, any jet carriers you want to plug to? Jet edge. They're your favorite. You're the ones who turn me on to them. So you want to go down this road with me? No, no, I don't think so. So what I want to say is this, you know, you go on, you see these blue, verified check mark people and they complain about stuff and they, they, they, they, they, they tag like, you know, the company like, Hey, Coca-Cola, my, I opened up a Coke and it was

flat or like, Hey, Hertz, my car was at their, and they're doing it in a public way to complain because they want to get to the front of the line because they're real noisy, you know, squeaky wheels. And there aren't enough noisy bottom. I know, but I almost did. Well, bossy. I was going to say a bossy boss. Hey, keep scouting out of this. So, or a powerful shot. But you know what? Like the other day I was thinking, I traveled back and forth from here, from Atlanta to New York. Is the plane getting close to the run, to the, to the landing zone? Yeah. And I flew on Delta and I had weather delays both ways. And the people at Delta, airlines, can I tell you something? Everybody was amazing. The people who were working the

gate, the people checking you in, the people on the plane, all the attendants, everybody was amazing. No, I feel like in that moment, I thought all these people, they get so much shit all the time. And every one of these people was so fucking good. And I want them to, and I thought like, they need to know that they were, they were doing a good job. I got no skin in this game other than to say they were really nice people. Somebody had a real nice Easter, I guess, huh? Yeah, I did. I had did with the kids and stuff. It was nice, but you know, Is this before or after you got in a huge fight with the flight attendants? Mm-hmm. Well, all I'm saying is look at the footage. I didn't start it.

My mask was on. No, honestly, these people were so amazing. I just thought, why don't they just get some love? How about we just start going, hey, these people were great. I love that. I love that. Yeah. So that's it. Well, you're preaching the choir. You know, my mother was a flight attendant for Pan Am all those years. And they, they don't get their due. You know what, Jason? Somebody asked me about this today. True story. Did your mom and dad meet on a flight? True story? No, but they did meet. My dad and his buddy went to what they were told was a stewardess party there in New York. Yeah. They were like, well, let's go get laid. And they both found their wives there. Wow. Yeah.

And it's just a party of stewardess or flight attendants, female flight attendants. In those days, it was stewardess Pan Am too, you know, with the, with the, that bowler hat and the little powder blue outfit. Wow. Pretty top level. Never knew that. I can't wait to interview you. It's going to be so exciting. Gang. Yeah. Today brings us a fella that I've been watching and studying and admiring for as long as I can remember. He is an incredible actor in both comedy and drama and is equally talented as a director in both genres as well. At just nine years old, he was immediately one to watch when he shot from the cannon on the short lived but much loved series Kate McShane, Sean, huh? And at 15, he doubled down with a shocking arc on the subversive yet

sexy guiding light. What? After a brief and inspired take on adult films called The Hustler of Money, he found work at Saturday Night Live. Not seeing what he was looking for there, he went on to bring us some of our favorite characters in both television and film characters like Garth, Mother Loving, Kakapipu, Pew Pew, Silly Sammy, Gaylord, Chazz, Derek, Guitar Center Guy, and the deeply sensitive, intuitive, magical Tony Wonder. Please welcome Jerry and Ann's boy, Mr. Franklin Stiller. Oh my. Ben. Jesus. Oh, look. I like you pulled out the Kate McShane. Pretty good. Listen, Wikipedia really brings all the deep research when you eat it. And I didn't know your middle name was Franklin. What a hoot. No, my middle name is Edward Mira.

I know, but wouldn't it be great if it was Franklin too? Benjamin Franklin Stiller. Coming out with a laugh. That's Jerry and Ann's work. First of all, I love the show, guys, and it's really fun to be here. Yeah, yeah. But I was listening to how it gets ramped up and I couldn't tell where it started. Yeah. So the chemistry feels, it feels very real. It's like a real thing. It's not something you guys put on for the show. No, you see, we just, we just connect. We just start rolling and there's no, there's no method to it. It's kind of amazing. It's your stupidity. But Will, why, Will, you look like you're doing a confessional for the bachelor.

Or hold up a sign and say that you haven't been beaten. I'm in an office, I'm in an office, in a production office. You got good lighting there though. It's not bad. Really good lighting. Yeah. Ben, are you in Bruce Wayne's library or? I am in my, my room, my office at my house in New York in Westchester. Oh, wonderful. Yeah. It does have that kind of vibe. So you're still up there in Westchester, Ben? Yes. For, I guess like the last 12 or 13 years, we kind of go back and forth between New York City and Westchester. But yeah. It's nice. I feel like, I feel like Jason, like the last time that we had dinner or hung out was when we were moving from LA back to New York. And do you remember

this? Walk me through it. But we had dinner. I forget who else was there. I don't remember much. Remind him of your name one more time too. That would be good. I think JJ Abrams was at the restaurant and came over and said, hello. That's what, that's what I remember. And then you said, I feel like you made a joke about like you're going, you're moving to New York, but you'll be back like in a year and a half or something. Do you remember that? I'm shocked that I don't remember that. Was I drinking still at the time? Shocked. I think we both were. No, I, at least 20 years ago. Yeah. No, but we have been, I've loved being in New York for the last time. I'm so jealous that you lived there. And you,

because I, the Westchester, first of all, I was born in Rye. So for some, I guess that's the reason I've got some sort of hankering to get back there, but. And you've stayed in Rye this whole time. You flipped the spelling, but you stayed right in it. I mean. Did you go to Rye Playland as a kid? So they say, I left when I was two, but I've been back there. I actually shot at, at, at Playland. We shot a, some of a film there. So it's still open. It's still happening. It's still open, but it's so pretty up in there. And where you guys are, it's just like. This is how Sean, you'd know Rye. This is where the New York Rangers practice facility is. Oh God. I think I have some photos. Yeah. I have some photos of me back there. Ben,

do you remember the last time we had dinner? Oh no. Say yes. I love that this is a circle of people who don't remember dinner. Do you remember it? No, I don't. We've never had it. It never happened. I know it never happened. Do you imagine, Ben, if you were like, yes, it was wonderful. Thank you for paying. Well, do you remember the last time we had lunch? I, I, wait, I do actually. What did it have been during a lunch break on a rest of development? No, it was at the Chateau and we were talking about Burt Wunderstone. Yeah. I, oh yes. Yeah. Wow. How about this? How about, I remembered and you didn't. Nobody can stop me for memory. Was it still there? I feel like he might have. Do you want to know? Wait,

sweet. For one second, Ben, that's one of my favorite comedies of all time, Burt Wunderstone. I think it's hysterical. This is Steve Carell as well. Yes. Yeah. Yes. And is Jim Carrey as well? No. I never saw it. You're confiding. Ben, we talked about it. Ben and I talked about it years ago when I was still on a rest of development. Yeah. And we talked about it. I think Stuart was there as Farrell calls an old red beard. And every morning we were on Blades of Glory, Ben, which you produced, as you know, with Stuart. And, and Farrell would walk up to, to Stuart and grab him by the beard and goes, it looks so real. Rest in peace, sweet still. Yeah. He was my producing partner for

about a long time. And he was an amazing guy. Love that. Yeah. Fascinating. Fascinating guy. So, Ben, now you've been, I feel like you have just gone down the directing hole. By the way, that's in a good way. You've just, it seems like you're, like you're just directing series and, and movies all the time. And it's like, you, are you ever going to emerge again as Ben Stiller, comedic, humongous comedic star? Ben, he gets on me about this too. Don't, don't, don't going to beat you up. I'm trying to crawl out of the directing hole. It's a deep hole, you know? No, I don't buy it. It's, I like it. I like being in the hole. I mean, I, I do enjoy it. Keep it cheap. And I try to, I try to not think about acting when I'm directing. I actually

don't worry about it when I'm directing. I enjoy just directing because a lot of years I spent, you know, directing and acting, which you do, Jason, incredibly well. And I do remember another interchange we had a couple of years ago, maybe like three years ago. That's an accurate way of describing a spending time with Bateman. Interchange. Yeah. Yeah. An interchange we had about directing. It was the night you won, you won directing Emmy. Yes. Well deserved. And you were talking about directing and acting. And you said that you like it because you feel like it takes out the middleman. That, yeah. And it's one less actor. You've got to have a, this sometimes delicate, creative negotiation with. Yeah. You're kind of making it sound easy. I think it's not

that easy. And I feel like you're able to do it very well. But Ben, I would say, I would say this though, Ben, for, as Jason said, it cuts out that long conversation. And Jason, in your case, it cuts out, if you've ever acted with Jason, it cuts out the 30 minutes of questions from Jason. He's his own worst, you know, director or actor. Is it fun watching me ask myself questions though? Because what I do is I, I switch over to the other side and I answer it and then I can. What he likes to do is go like, well, this is a really simple situation. There must be a complicated reason for why it's like this. But Ben, do you like to watch the playback of yourself? Do you do that? Because I worked with a director, actor once a long time ago, who loved to watch

himself in, you know, in playback. And we would just watch him watch himself and laugh at himself. Yeah, no, that's, I'd love three guesses at that. No, I won't do that. But, but don't you, I mean, I've been trying to do what you do from an acting standpoint, my whole career, and that, that is basically this great proxy for the audience. You are the audience. You are the every man. You are the straight man. You are the person the camera needs to cut to after something outrageous has happened or something dramatic has happened or something. So don't you find that when you were acting and directing, that you had this great sort of ease that you knew that the sort of the grounding element was taken care of, that you didn't have to worry

that there was going to be this person at the center that is normal so you could take these bigger swings comedically around with the other characters and stuff? Sometimes I felt like that. I mean, I did feel like once it came around to having to do my stuff, I kind of had a sense of what I wanted to do. But I also felt a lot of the time, and maybe it's because I did it over a number of years and sort of got to the point where I just, it felt like a lot of work to then have to jump, like set up the shot and then jump in front of the camera. And then you have to act, then you have to do it. And I felt like that was harder to do than you, I felt like I couldn't concentrate on both. And the first day that I started on Escape at Dan, or the first, which is

like the first thing I directed, I didn't act in, the first day I was so happy. I was so relieved. Like to set up a shot and then not have to jump in front and sort of care what, you know, like my hair was and all that stuff. But what isn't acting, acting seems as comfortable for you as it is for me. I'm not saying it's easy, but it seems comfortable enough for you where it wasn't that much of an effort to act. And instead, it was actually, here's somebody who's in front of the camera that is mindful of all the other technical things that are going on that you can actually help by how you are acting or by hitting that mark or not shadowing that person. Or did you find that it was nice to have a soldier there that was taking care of all this stuff for you?

A soldier in myself, you mean? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, somebody that's making it all kind of come together. Yeah, but I never really, I never really thought about it that way because I felt like, okay, that's just part of everything that's going on. You know, I mean, what do you think, though, when you're doing it and you're guys, we're going to be with you in one second. You know what, this is fascinating because this is much more, I'm waiting for somebody to start snoring. It's much more of a deep dive into how Jason works than you at every moment. And what's great is that his sort of, his acting ambition is to just provide a blank slate for the audience, for the editors to cut to. I mean, what an artistic objective to have. Fucking great.

I just want to give, I want to give them something, just a cut point. Somebody's not blocked the light. His name has become cut point, which is great. You'd think that he'd be insulted by it. Now, Ben, all right, so there's no action. Wait, I'm just going to say this just kind of to what you were saying, Jason, which is, I don't know if it's entirely true. You have played characters who have been at the center of a bunch of insane situations and who are sort of put upon, but you've also, your bread and butter has also been playing characters who are completely on hinged or completely out there. You've actually moved quite seamlessly between the two. And I wonder, I actually have always wondered, like, which do you like playing? Just a bunch of characters

are going through my head right now. I know, same here. Between unhinged and blank slate, yeah. Between unhinged and blank slate. What would you rather do? Because the robot loves big blank slate. Go ahead. I enjoy, I mean, honestly, it's been a few years. I never thought I'd go this long in my life without acting really. It's been like five or six years. And I never as a, just as an actor over the years thought, oh, I take that much time off. And I think when I look back at it, I enjoyed, I enjoyed all of it, enjoyed the different, you know, some of those broader characters were, you know, tonally things that are just so like over the top that I felt like it was like more fun to do that kind of thing. But then I'd also enjoy being in somebody else's movie

where I could just be, you know, a real human being and try to also like kind of maybe not have to worry about really maybe not be as self aware about what I was doing. Right. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Do you ever get like, like, we are all four of us, we all produce stuff as well, right? And I find myself when I'm when I'm producing something and an actor has an issue or wants to discuss, I'm like, God, I don't want to fucking deal with that. They're crazy actors are fucking crazy. And then I'm an actor in something and I turn into a crazy person. Like, do you feel that way when you direct? Are you like, I know how to deal with this kind of situation or this pathos of this human being because I've been there. It's a shorthand. Yeah, I mean, I think

that's what, yeah, what Jason is saying, like, you don't have to worry about that with yourself, you know, that you can just kind of do your thing. But Jason, you have to deal with this. And when you're directing and acting with other actors, how, you know, every actor has their own thing has their own point of view where they're coming from. And you have to figure out how to connect with them. And sometimes when you're acting in a scene with them, and you have to also give them something or try to give them some direction, that can be, I mean, I imagine on the show, since you've worked with the same actress for a long time, you guys have a sort of a shorthand. Yeah, yeah, but then you but then there's also there's the day players as well,

that you don't have that history with or any other project where, yeah, it's, you know, there's there's a different thing you need to do as a director, as opposed to an actor, for sure, with with respect to making sure people are comfortable. But there's also that thing, I mean, I don't know, Ben, I don't know how much of the stuff that you directed, you also wrote, I did a short lived series, two seasons called flake that we did on Netflix, a little small applause, please. No, no, no, there's no applause to be had, but it was like it was an experimentation. It was an experiment and I don't know, but we it was great. Well, having written it, thank you. But I wrote it and then and then show ran it and acted it and then

second season directed. So I'd be in the scene with another actor and great. I loved everybody who we had on the show and they were great. However, however, having written the scene. And so then I've already got it coming from that and then show and then thing and then thinking about, well, we're never going to use this. And you know, so I was constantly in that and I found it very difficult. Sometimes the last thing on the list was acting in the scene. So I and I felt like that was the thing that was like, I should be paying more attention to the acting in the scene, but I'm thinking about all these other things first. Yeah. And ironically, that's the most important thing. Yeah. At the end of the day, you know, that's what I would feel

like. Okay. At the end of the day, I have to make sure that I'm in present in the scene and somehow connecting and you know, that's well, like I was going to say, so so Tropic Thunder, for instance, who you wrote with our whole of her applause, massive applause. Justin Thoreau, who's not a listener of the show. So we can mention, you know, I heard the Justin episode that you guys did. Sorry about that. And talk about a guy who gets down to it. And you guys wrote it, wrote together and he got down into it. And if he had sleeves, he would have rolled them up. And but you guys, you guys, he owns no sleeves. He owns no sleeves. Didn't you almost buy him a box of sleeves for Christmas? I did. I did for Christmas. And I was going to buy him. Yeah, Ben,

I was going to buy him a box of sleeves. But if you had such veiny biceps, come on, would you have that's true? Yeah, that's true. At 50. I mean, the guy, he's gorgeous. He sent us a photo yesterday to Jason and me from the, from the, um, the jungle of Mexico. He's wearing a hat and he said, I'm jonesing for adventure. And then you sort of see the whole phone. He said, Indiana jonesing. And I was like, Hey, buddy, didn't know there was a Nick Fouquet hat store down in the jungle. But anyway, my point is, my point is this, you write Tropic Thunder and then you're in the scene. Do you have those moments when you're in a scene as the writer where you're going, huh, this is going differently than I thought. Yeah. I mean, I think it just comes down to when you're

doing the scene, what's going to make the scene work? Does it feel like it's working, you know, and it becomes its own thing. And I think that's no matter what, even if you are the writer and you're not in it, you have to let go of your idea of what the scene, you think the scene was or what you wrote and just look at what's happening in front of you as a director and then figure out how to find the life in it in the moment, which is, I think that's just directing. Can I ask you something? First of all, Ben, I have to say, you were one of those actors that I've always looked up to my whole life and one of those people, you know, we all have those kind of inspirational, especially in comedy. And I was like, Oh my God, I would kill to have Ben Stiller's career. He seems

like such a great guy. He's super talented. You actually said I'd kill Ben to have his career. That's what you said. What was the actual quote? And then going on to directing and I was like, wow, that's just so cool. I'm getting to my favorite show of all, one of my favorite shows of all time now is Severance. I don't know if anybody's seen it. Of course. It's incredible. It's amazing. I don't know if you know, I'm going to play with one of your lead actors now. Tramel Tillman, right? Yeah. Tramel Tillman. Yeah. He's amazing. Incredible. Don't say anything about that. I haven't finished it yet. Oh, okay. But can you please just as a huge, huge fan of you and that show, tell me the genesis of how that came about and it's without ruining the ending.

So, you know, in the finale went, no, it's incredible. By the way, that finale is amazing. No, the it's a great show business story. The writer, Dan Erickson, had been trying to get something produced as a writer for a while and he sent the script to our production company. This is five plus years ago. He sent as a writing sample and Jackie Cohn, who's the creative executive of our company, gave it to Nikki Winesack, who is working with the company and we read it and was like, this is great. It's a great writing sample. But I was like, this would be a great show. And so we just got it set up at Apple. They were the only people who wanted to develop it. You know, you have a piece of material, you take it around town, you pitch it and you see who wants

to do it. And I find that a lot of the time, like usually just one or two places that want to do something, right? They were the ones who wanted to do it. They were just starting up. They didn't really exist yet. And Christopher Walken, John Totoro, Patricia Arquette, Adam Scott, I mean, it's the cast is a Tramel Tillman cast is amazing. I didn't know Chris Walken was in it yet because I'm only going to fucking go. I'm going to kill you. Help, help, help. You're one episode in. No, I'm three episodes in. That's incredible. That's incredible. It's such a great show. We will be right back. And now back to the show. When you look at something as precise as what Severance is as far as filmmaking goes, who is that inside you? Where did that guy

grow from somebody who was a child of two incredible comedy stars who and you coming up in sort of sketch world and then pure comedy world and then maybe some dramatic work. And like, how did that muscle sort of develop in you where it was like you're such an incredible filmmaker, the precision and the focus to detail and camera work and sound and lighting and all of this stuff. Where did that? How did that develop? I mean, I feel like it's always been a part of what I love since I was a kid. And I don't know. I'm curious. I'm not just throwing this back to you, Jason, but since you do this, like you always have you always loved directing? I have. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Since you were a kid. But did it come like I did where it was just from watching people around on the set?

Like, oh my God, look how you make fake life. It's like I became fascinated with what a crew does. Like the cast and stuff acting and all that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. It was like, but that was familiar to me. But seeing how people created like, oh, this is how you put make an audience a little bit scared. You put the camera on your shoulder and you like all these little tricks and I love that. I loved all of the nuts and bolts of filmmaking as a kid. I would get American cinematographer. You mentioned Kate McShane, my early credit. That was my mother's show. My mother had a series on CBS, an hour drama where she played an Irish lawyer who solve cases every week and only lasted for half a season. But I remember going on the set of that at Paramount Studios and I played Susan

Strasberg's son who was Lee Strasberg's daughter. No way. Yeah. And I had one scene. I was nine years old and I remember I was waiting around a corner on the set. I remember how the set smelled, how the fresh paint and the lights and there was a cue light for me. That was when the light, when the red light, yeah, when the red light went off, then I would go in and I just remember thinking, oh, that is so cool. And I was just fascinated with all of it and his special effects makeup and, you know, just the process. So it was always, you know, I was obsessed with all those Planet of the Apes movies and Beside an Adventure and all that. So actually the outside part of it, sort of the mechanics of it was more interesting to me at first than the actual telling of stories

or expressing some sort of, you know, emotion. It was more about that stuff. And for a while, I thought I wanted to be a cinematographer when I was a kid. But both of you guys had very, so if you think about it, you explained, you guys had very, not the same trajectory, but you had very, there was similar that you're both young. Jason told the story recently how the first time when he lost his virginity, he had a cue light. Isn't that right, Jason? Yeah. And I said, can we just hold the cue just a little bit longer for me? And they kept telling him, you jumped your cue, you jumped your cue. Yeah. But that was... The light was starting flashing. Pre-mature cue light, huh? Yeah. But I mean, both your parents were, of course, your mom and dad,

your mom, who I had the pleasure of knowing a little bit and I did that movie with her years ago, Southie, with the great Anne Mira and lovely lady and was always so kind and sweet whenever I interact with her. And then your dad, of course, was just the great Jerry Stiller. I mean, you grew up with these, you know, these people, these... You grew up in a comedy environment and to Jason's point, in the cinema. And Jason, your dad was a director and a writer and your sister was an actor and is an actor. And you guys both grew up in it. Was there any other way for you to go but to both become directors? I don't think so. Yeah. Or just staying in this business. I mean, I would have been screwed, you know, if I was forced to do anything else.

I never thought about doing anything else, you know, for better or for worse. Did you go to college? Did you get a degree in anything else? No. I went to UCLA for nine months and then I quit. I went to the acting drama department because I wanted to go to the film making department, but they didn't have, it didn't start till junior year back then. And so, and I couldn't get into USC film school, you know, and not great grades. So I went to UCLA, which, you know, good enough grades to go there. Harder to get into UCLA now. Yeah. Yeah. And I... Is that true? Yeah. I did not do well there. I just sort of didn't assimilate and I kind of just was like, well, I wanted to be doing it. So I quit and came back to New York. So then did you feel a pressure just to

make ends meet? Knowing that, okay, now I'm all in. I'm not going to study any other career. I'm quitting college. I'm moving to New York. Did you have that sense of like, well, I'm going to have to make rent and provide... My parents were like, you could come home, stay home and figure it out. And, you know, they didn't kick me out. They didn't kick me out. But there was that feeling when I came back, when I finally quit school. And I remember just coming back to my parents' apartment and just like, and thinking, now what? Now what do I do? How do I go forward? And so, I started, you know, I worked as a busboy at a restaurant on Columbus Avenue. And then I started going to acting classes and started auditioning. But it took me about three years to actually

get any work. Did you worry that you were going to get out from under the immense shadow of your parents? I guess somewhere I did. But I think when you're that young and you just sort of have this idea of what you want to do, you don't think about it that way. Yeah. I don't know how you felt about it. I just never thought about it that way. I knew that I had to figure out how to do my thing. But, and it was a little bit sometimes daunting because I would go in and, you know, sometimes you're not, when you're not anonymous and you're not, and I wasn't very good too. I wasn't great at auditioning. I wasn't really that comfortable as an actor. And so, I would sort of fail a lot and not, not anonymously, you know, be like, Oh, Jerry Nanskid came in

and it wasn't that great. Did you ever see, did you ever see though your mom or dad, like, with the ups and downs of getting parts, not getting jobs, struggling here and there, then maybe soaring and then maybe coming back down all the rollercoaster of doing the business that ever sway you from not wanting to do it? No, it didn't. I mean, I was, I don't, you know, at that time I was so thinking about my own thing and like, I wasn't even thinking about where my parents were because they were who they were. But when I look back at it now, and I've been working on a documentary about my parents. Oh, that's cool. That's really cool. Yeah. And it's been really interesting to kind of, you know, kind of look at their, you know,

my dad saved everything. So there's so much footage and writing and all these great, you know, archives of stuff that they had, but they were going through kind of a tougher time when I quit school and came back and they were trying to figure out who they were at that point in their career. But I was so unaware of that because I was just thinking of my own thing. And now when I look back at it, you know, they were, they were having to figure out like, I was probably, I'm now my dad's age when I came home from school, you know, and I'm thinking about what he was doing then and trying to find, not till Seinfeld really, because he loved performing and he loved being, you know, he just loved doing it. And at that time I was pre-Seinfeld. He was sort of

trying to figure out not being in the comedy act by mom anymore, you know, how to figure it out. Ben, do you ever wonder about just sort of in the context of your own relationships, your parents were performers, and then your kids and think about what their perspective is of of you guys? Or Jason, do you think about it? Because I've thought about it a few times now, recently, especially as the kids are getting older and becoming teenagers, about how, what a weird, I always make the joke when the kids come to, anytime they come to work with me, I'm like, Hey, is it fun watching dad get his makeup put on? You know, because how fucking weird is that? Or watching them, you know, 50 people dressed trying to make my hair look okay. And then like,

we'll put that other shirt on. And like in front of my son, who's 13, he must be like, what is going on? Do you guys think about that? I don't. I don't. I don't. Just because you're used to it? Yeah. Well, I think they get it at this age now, I guess, but it's, it is odd for sure. Yeah, I mean, my kids are my daughter's 20, and my son's going to be 17. And they both have very, you know, clear points of view on show business and acting and, you know, their perception of my career and Christine's career, and, you know, they've grown up around it. So they have their own ideas about it, which is interesting to me. And they've, they've watched all of that stuff. And I think it is,

a lot of it is kind of weird, but it's also, they see the perspective on it too. And, you know, that I love doing it. And I think they get the positive part of it too. But it's something that I grew up with too. I was around my parents getting makeup on and all these visceral memories of that and loving it, you know, like loving being around the backstage of it and all that. Because it's different. They're not going to an office. Now you mentioned Christine, of course, Jason and I know Christine very well from Arrested Development days. And we got to spend a lot of time with her and amazing, just awesome. And every time I think about the other thing I think about when I think about you and Arrested Development, it reminds

me of the Ben Stiller show because you guys were on the air for one year and you won the Emmy for Best Comedy. That's right. Which is very... It was crazy because we'd already been canceled too. We were already canceled. And so when we won, David Cross said to Jason and me, I don't know, Jason, you remember like, uh-oh, this doesn't look good. I've been down this path before. Right. Talk to me a little, talk to us a little bit about the Ben Stiller show, how it came to be and how it burns so bright and so quickly. No, was this, this was before or after SNL? Uh, this was after SNL. I was asked SNL for literally for six weeks, six weeks. And why did you jump? Go SNL first. I mean, it's...

You've probably told the story a million times. I'm so sorry. Well, you know, yeah, no, I basically got on SNL because I made a short film that was a takeoff on The Color of Money, which was called The Hustler of Money. This is the adult film. Yes. And I was doing an impression of Tom Cruise and Jim Downey, who was the head writer at the time. Sure. He, you know, he liked it and they, and Lorne put it on the air and then they said, you can come and audition and be an apprentice writer and a featured player. And I wanted to make short films. I wanted to do, I wanted to direct little films like Albert Brooks did and, you know, which I grew up watching

and thinking that's, you know, that's the funniest thing, like him doing, you know, the new fall season where he, you know, make fun of the show and the shows were coming out and things like that. And they weren't doing that at the time. It was pre all the Lonely Island guys and all that. So I was just there as like, as a featured player and I was not great at live performing. I did not like it. I would get nervous. I didn't feel like I could really do my thing. And it was, and it was hard to navigate. And I had a chance to do what I wanted to do on MTV, because MTV was doing these little, they, you know, sort of like half video show, like basically like they showed, if you showed videos, you could do comedy sketches, but it had to be like

half and half videos and comedy. And so they were basically saying, if you want to do that, you can do that here. So I decided to go do that. Who championed you at MTV? Do you remember? Well, I mean, Doug Herzog. Yeah, he's great. You know, running the network. Yeah. And Freston too. Yeah, Tom Freston. He gave us a shot. Great Tom Freston. Yeah. And the most interesting man in the world, Tom Freston, by the way. He inspired that whole campaign for Dosec. He really is. Not a lot of people know that. Yeah, he is. He truly is. I've never really known him that well, but he always seems incredibly intriguing. He's the best guy. He's the most interesting. You can, you can walk into a room

with the biggest music stars on the planet and everybody just wants to talk to Freston. Yeah. This is a true story. And that was an interesting time at MTV because they were just starting to do programming. So they let us do our thing. And then from that, someone Fox, at the Fox fledgling Fox network saw what we were doing and said, hey, come and develop something. HBO was producing it. Chris Albrecht, who was an executive at HBO. And we were doing it for HBO and Fox, HBO independent production. So we were basically for like two years developing this sketch show. And we did like three pilots for it. Every time we couldn't figure out, they couldn't figure out what was the best way to frame the show. So we tried.

Who was writing that with you? It was you. You were at the helm. At Capitao and Odenkirk. And first it was me and Jeff Khan, who was my, my roommate and writing partner. And we were doing an act that we then turned into that MTV show. And then I met Judd and Judd and I clicked. He was doing stand up. And I think he was doing like the young comedian special or something. And we just started hanging out. And I was going and hanging out at the improv and watching Jeanine Garofalo and Bob and Bob and I had met at SNL when I was there. And he was writing at the time with Conan and so Andy Dick to and stand up. Andy Dick was actually in Chicago at the time. And I did a movie in Chicago called Next of Ken,

this Patrick Swayze movie. And I made a short while I was there and I met Andy Dick. Andy Dick came. Yeah. And literally Andy Dick, the way I met Andy Dick was I was at my hotel in Chicago. And he knocked on the door. I opened the door and there was just an infant laying on the floor in the hallway. He left his infant son on the floor. For a guy. There's this way of, yeah, forget. I later adopted and no. So yeah. So anyway, that's how the group came together. Yeah. That's crazy. All right. So then you do, you do, I just want to get you've got this whole crew because I just love the genesis of all this. So you've got like, it's like you and Bob and Judd and you're doing the Ben Stiller show. You guys get canceled. You win the Emmy for best comedy

after the show's canceled, which is like, what was your speech? Like, Hey, fuck you, Fox or something like that. It wasn't very articulate. I was like, I think it was like, Hey, Fox, you missed something here or something. Yeah. So then you do that. That'll show them. You go right onto reality bites. Well, I was going to say, so like within a couple of years, you go into reality bites, which you act in, which you direct. Did you write your first film as a director, right? Helen Childress wrote it. Yes. It's my first film as a director. I'd been developing it while we were working on the Ben Stiller show with Helen, who wrote it about her life. And then the show got canceled. And just about the time when Nona Ryder said she wanted to do the

movie, which made it happen. So that was, that was the reason. Wasn't John Stuart in that as well? John Stuart? No. Was he? No. Who was in that film? In reality bites? Yeah, named Ethan Hawke. Yep. Oh yeah. I always get those two confused. It always happens to me. I'm an Ethan Hawke fan. I'm going to go on the record and say I'm an Ethan Hawke fan. Ethan's amazing. He's amazing. So did you see him do True West recently? No, I wanted to. With Paul Dana? Oh my God. I've been observing a thing called the pandemic Ben. Go on. Pre-pandemic. Christ, did I go to the thing? What are you talking about? Do we go right into there's something about Mary after reality bites? And if so, no.

No, no, no. There's a, there's like a five year gap there. Where'd it go, Jason? Your guest? Yeah. Sorry. Well, it's Wikipedia. It's their fault. Was Cable Guy before there's something about Mary? Yes. Yes. Okay. So that was a second, second film that you directed. Yeah, Cable Guy. Incredible film. I loved that film too. Not really well received at the time. They just didn't get it. They didn't get it at the time. Oh, I thought it was fantastic. Just like, just like the Ben Stiller show. Ben, did you put, we're going, we're firing away questions now. Did you put Cable Guy, Owen Wilson is in there in a small role? Is that right? That's how I met Owen. And it was right after Bottle Rocket because that came out about 95.

That's exactly right. I'm so good with dates. I saw the Bottle Rocket short. There was a Black and White Bottle Rocket short. I saw that too. Yeah. Incredible. Incredible. And the film Bottle Rocket is one of the best films. And I remember one time, here's my recollections of Owen Wilson. I see that movie. I was living in New York at the time. I was like, this is fucking cool, this movie, these assholes made. And then I go to LA and I happen to see him like at valet. And I'm like, look at that. That's the guy from Bottle Rocket. And then he's in Cable Guy. And then I'm like, yeah, I sort of fell in love with Owen. Well, I was like, this guy is the funniest guy I've ever seen. I went, I went to see Bottle Rocket by myself at the Century City Theater or

something. And I had just hired him for Cable Guy. And I watched that movie. I started laughing like five minutes in by myself for the whole movie. I was like, this is the funniest, like, oh my God, this guy is incredible. So funny. His delivery was so peculiar. Oh man. I know. So how many films have you done with him? And was the next one after Cable Guy, was it what, did you guys work together again before Starsky and Hutch? I'm stressing out now because I can't remember. Right. Zoolander. Zoolander was 2001. Yeah, we did. I mean, we did a movie called Permanent Midnight, where it was like this little indie where I played Jerry Stahl, who was a comedy writer, who was addicted to heroin. And he played my best friend in that. That was 98. Who wrote on Elf.

Yeah, exactly. And which my mom was on, actually. And then what did we do? We did, and then we did Zoolander together, which was like 2000, 2001. Then I think Starsky and Hutch was after that, which was, of course, Jason. You've probably done like what, six with him? Seven with him? I think somebody said we've done like 11. No way. Right. Because then you did all the night of the museum movies together. Exactly. That's three there. Except we never actually worked together because he was like a little person in it. Oh, yes. Right. Right. Right. Like a little figurine. So I would go. Oh, that's right. This is how they would work. It's like we would go to the Museum of Natural History in New York at the beginning for a day or maybe two days to shoot

the exteriors. Then we would go to Vancouver for five months in the middle of winter and be in the studio where it was the, you know, the fake museum. And then Owen would come in the last three days and shoot all of his stuff and, you know, steal the movie against a green screen. Yeah. Exactly. With the incredible Canadian rocket ship, Sean Levy. Oh my God. Yeah. I love him. The ball of fire. I auditioned for the sequel, the night, night at the museum too. Really? And I went and then ran, read for Sean Levy and I go, you know, maybe I did the scene and I go, you know, maybe funny if this thing and this and I took out the thing here and I did this and he goes, yeah, you want to direct it? Thanks for coming. No, seriously? Yeah. I came in

with too many ideas. He's got a sneaky, he's got a sneaky knife there and that Canadian kind suit of his. He sure does. He'll whip it out every once in a while. He's a friend of the program. He's a friend of the program. Sean's a friend of the program. He's great. He's great. So what do you, Andrew, do you say yes, you want to direct it? Because what an opportunity. By the way, she's the opportunity. We bonded. We bonded on that movie. So Ben, how hard was it? Do you wish, regret wise career, do you wish cut Bateman out of Starsky? Would that would be up there? Simple. It's a real easy cut. Not a lot of trimming. But then you guys also do, I was joking because you guys did a few movies. You also did dodgeball. That's right. That was an afternoon.

Yeah. But I feel like that afternoon really made a mark. I mean, I see the memes. It helped me. Jason, you were hilarious in that. Thank you. That was during a lunch hour from Arrested Development. Oh, really? Are you serious? I remember that. I drove down to the, where did we shoot it? Like the Rose Bowl, I think. It was, well, the, oh, did you do that at the Rose Bowl? Because we also shot down in Long Beach too. Yeah. One of the two. I mean, really, that was really fun. It was a really fun experience. And I remember walking out of that screening, I was sitting next to Todd Phillips at the screening, the premier of that in Westwood. I remember watching it and I had no idea what the movie was. I mean, again, it was only there for a half an hour, you know, doing,

doing this, you know, basically a lock off me behind a microphone playing some idiot color announcer. And I didn't have no idea of the color of the tone, the comedic tone of that. And so I didn't really know what the film was about till I saw it at the screening. And we finished the screening and, and obviously dodgeball, very, very funny, incredibly broad. But I guess I just wasn't prepared for the style, the flavor of humor. And then walking out with Todd Phillips and doing the taboo thing when you're going up the aisle way, talking about the film, you know, and I said, no, I said, boy, I don't know. I mean, what do you think? He's like, that was pretty damn good. I go, really? He said, yeah, I said, I'll tell you what, Todd, I'll make you a hundred dollar

bet. This thing doesn't do a dollar over 50 million dollars. He goes, I'll bet you a thousand. I said, you're on. I think it does. What does it do? Like, I think it did that in the first weekend or something. It did well. It actually had open number one. I know that it was my God. What a surprising. Did you pay him? Jason, did you pay him a thousand dollars? I don't think so. No. Todd's doing okay. That's why he's Todd Phillips. Come on. Yeah, you owe him a thousand dollars and he can come at it. But you, but that's, that's funny though, Jason, because I feel like you totally hit the tone of the movie without knowing it. Well, older because I remember. In fact,

Jason, you were in your own movie, you had your own little movie going, which is amazing. I remember when I first got to the set, I remember going down, I found, I found you and Ross in Video Village. You guys were shooting a different scene and I got there a little early to get into makeup cause, or cause I, my hair had to get all spiked up and stuff. And so I was like, so guys, so the spiky hair, like that's the tone. That's the funny. And you guys were both like, yeah, yeah. I go, huh. And then I don't know whether it was my idea or Ross's or yours. Maybe Ben, I said, well, like, is it like, would this guy have like a flaming net neck tattoo of like a dodgeball on it? And there were like, yes. Yes.

Like a flaming dodgeball neck tattoo is like, I think I got the tone now. I think I get it. Yeah. You know who never really understood was Rip Torn, who was so funny in the movie. He never got, and my, my brother-in-law was in charge, Brian Taylor was in charge of taking care of him for the movie. Like he was sort of like his hand line and got some, yeah. And he never really, you know, jumped on board, but he was so funny because he was just being really funny. My favorite, my favorite Rip Torn story was, I remember Jeffrey and Russ telling us when they were doing Larry Sanders and they were in their last season and they go, they decided that they're going to get Gary Shanling. Everybody's going to chip it

and buy him a car. They've done the show for five, six seasons and everybody's going to chip in is this big wrap then is a thank you to Gary. They're going to get him a car. So Jeffrey's tasked with going to get it and he goes up to Rip's dressing room and he knocks on the, knocks up the dressing door and he goes, Rip opens it and goes, yeah, what? And he goes, oh, hey, Rip, we're going to, we're all, we're all pitching in. We're going to get Gary a gift for a wrap for the whole series. And he goes, yeah, what are we going to get him? And he goes, well, we've decided we're all going to chip in. We're going to get him in a car. Rip looks at him and goes, go fuck yourself. He slammed the door shut. His answer was go fuck yourself. I think one day on set he decided he

was just going to go fishing. He like left to go fishing. And we will be right back. And now back to the show. When you read the script for There's Something About Mary, did you have like incredible faith in those directors, writers that it was all going to be a, a target that has hit or that seemed like a big swing? It was, yeah, I remember reading the script very clearly and, and laughing out loud reading the script and thinking that this will either be really, really, really funny or it'll just be awful. It'll be like just like the worst movie ever. Like it will not work. But like that's a perfect example of like the value you bring to something that's taking swings as big as that you need a Ben Stiller in the middle of it.

Yeah, but they weren't, they weren't coming after me for that movie. I was, I wanted to be in that movie. I was trying to, you know, get in that movie. You were chasing it. Yeah. And because I really did think it could be really funny, but I didn't know. And then like working with them, working with the Ferreles on the set, I was actually, that was where I was like, wait a minute, is this actually going to work? Because it was such a weird environment. Because it wasn't, it was just not like any movie set I'd ever been on. There was like, they were just having so much fun and playing practical jokes on each other, you know, very politically incorrect, practical jokes. Putting all their friends in scenes and stuff. Yeah, putting friends in scenes and not

really talking about like motivation or things like that. And, you know, like I would get into like arguments with them about like the logic of a scene or, you know, like, oh, I'm in the bathroom and my, you know, my dick's in the zipper. But like, why are all these people walking by the window? It's like, I felt like I was in a Mark's Brothers movie or something, you know, or like, there was like, you know, the scene where it's like dripping on my, my ear, you know, and I was like, why don't I feel that on my ear? Why wouldn't I feel it? Should we set up that I had, like, that I lost sensitivity in my ear when I was a child or something? My ear lobe doesn't feel anything. And they were like, no, it's gonna be funny. A lot of those conversations. Ben, don't

worry about it. Don't fucking Ben. So I was in the pain in the ass actor, Jason. Right. You were the Jason. You were the Bateman on that set. Yeah, totally. Well, I've always felt like if we just worked just two minutes longer, we can establish that he's lost sensitivity in the ear. And then for anyone who's a cynic in the audience, we got him covered. That's a real conversation I had. A serious conversation. And I would respond to that conversation. Oh, Jason would have turned that into a sidebar. I'd be like, yes, on page 20, we can drop that little bread crumb. Yeah, exactly. We used to always, I always, by the way, their answer, I'm sure was always like, you know what, Ben, don't worry about it. Cam Neely thinks it's funny. But also, and also that like,

I used to say to Jason, sometimes asking questions. And I don't know, by the way, what's up, Cam? One of the great all time hockey players. Jason, we sometimes go, hey, you know, why don't you take that over to workshop on the workshop stage or on stage seven? Okay, we'll talk about that over there. Let's just get the scene today. Hey, Ben. So when you, now that you are onto bigger things like directing great shows like Severance and whatever else you have left. Less cum laden projects. Yeah. Are you? He's finished with the hustler of money and there's something about Mary. Are you looking for less common in your future projects? Go, Sean. Are you what attracts you to certain projects? Are you like, for example, like Severance

is a little sci-fi-y? Are you a sci-fi fan? Did you accept that because of the challenge of it? He hates Star Trek. Or do you know that? Or do you only choose things that are like, like, what wouldn't you choose? At this point, I kind of just go with a gut feeling, honestly. Like, if I read something or I start to develop something, it's because it's something that I'm really, I just really feel turned on by and I really like. Like, would you ever do a horror film? Maybe, but I wouldn't want to do it just to do it. Or you're saying horror. Or you're saying horror. Okay, sorry. Horror. Okay, good. You know, but like with Severance, it was, I thought it was funny,

actually, when I read it. Yeah, it is. Because it reminded me of the office and office space and that kind of humor, you know, that thing that's developed. That melancholy bleak humor. Yeah. No, it became much less funny. But like, that Adam's awesome at, you're awesome at. Yeah, I just thought conceptually, it was really interesting to do that kind of humor, but yet the people had no idea who they were or what they were doing or why they were there. But yet they're in this sort of rhythm, you know. I love knowing both you and Adam. I love and being such a fan of both of yours in every respect and watching the scenes and thinking about you guys collaborating to me is very exciting to watch because I see both of you guys, he's operating at

such a high level. And I can feel your hand in it as well, but not heavy-handed, but I can feel both of you guys working. Because you met on Walter Mitty, right? Yeah. It's so good. Ben, it's so good, man. Thanks, man. I mean, you're really. Well, thank you. But I think Adam is amazing. I mean, we met on Walter Mitty. I saw him in Step Brothers, which really just blew my mind how funny he was in that movie. It was just like, I couldn't stop watching him do those scenes where, you know, the dinner table scenes were, you know, and it was more than just being like a dick or whatever. Like he had just this level of specificity that just was incredible to me. I love him. I want to talk about like your ability to direct and write and act in stuff that's like

epic, but also like Walter Mitty and Tropic Thunder, I think the scope and scale of those movies are just enormous, but you're still able to get real small and specific with some character comedy that's not, it's not jokey. It's not this. I mean, I guess there's incredible jokes in Tropic Thunder, but it's still, I don't know, you're able to manage, it seems like multiple genres in one project. There's no real question here. It's just, just admiration. Oh, thanks. I mean, I, I think it's like not, you know, getting away from genres. Did you see that movie, The Worst Person in the World? Not yet, but Paul Thomas Anderson was on the, was on the podcast and he was talking. He was talking about it. Well, it's, and he does it too. It's, you know, I admire filmmakers and I haven't

done this, but filmmakers who just say, screw it with genre. I don't care about the genre, who are able to just say, I'm going to make them. And maybe in their head, they're thinking it's this genre, that genre relates to that, but they're just going to make something that to them is a movie that, you know, that they relate to and that they feel, makes them feel something. And that's, for me, like I, I try not to think about the genre, you know, at that much and just try to go, okay, what's going to make this funny? What's going to make this real in this moment? And that's what tone is, you know? What's going to make it powerful? Like with MIDI, it was just, it was just so powerful and heavy at times. And when it, when it wanted to become sort of this epic fable it did, when it

wanted to get really small and intimate, it did. And that was a passion project for you, Ben. It took you a long time to get that up there. And Steve Conrad did such an incredible job writing that. It's all Steve Conrad. He wrote the script and it came to me. And then that was one I also wanted to be a part of. And then Steve and I were able to connect on it. And I really loved working with him on it. He's doing incredible work on television too. Oh my God, Patriot. That show, like talk about defying genres, you know? Ben, you've always had a really great eye for, and we mentioned Owen, but you've had a really great eye for emerging talent. And you, you've always stayed really close to what's going on, especially in comedy, not in film in general, I think as well,

but, but, but especially comedy. Who are the people these days who are making you laugh? You're going, fuck, this is new. This is somebody doing something in a different, and you've always respected people who do it in a way like you said about Owen again, people who do it differently. Yeah. I mean, I feel like I'm, you know, I feel sometimes that I'm not as connected as I should be. I'm not seeing everything and out there because I kind of get wrapped up in working on the project I'm working on. And so I'll see people who come in and audition or read or, I don't watch as much television as I feel that I should. Are you good about watching films? I am not as good at, lately I'm not. I'm not as good at watching a lot of, I get in and I feel like it's,

it's like there's so much to watch. Right. Yeah. You know, I did get recommended to watch this show Dave and, God, I really think it's good. So funny. There are some moments in that that are so funny. He's really specific. He's really honest. You know, he's the rapper Lil Dicky. It's, I thought it really developed over the two seasons. There's an episode with Cream Abdul-Jabbar that is so funny. Really? Where, yeah. And Cream Abdul-Jabbar is so good. I mean, he was good in airplane, but like he's really good. And, but Dave, to me, it's like this guy is do it. He's just being really, really honest and creating his own tone, but it's really funny. And, you know, it's, it's just, it's self-effacing, but it's honest. And I think that's, you know, to me, when you see

somebody doing that, it's really exciting. Having done so much at such a high level for so long, you know, this qualifies as a completely fully realized career, yet you're still a young man. So the stuff that I'm assuming you want to still get done since you've kind of checked all boxes is just what, just a, a, a continue sort of an escalation in your taste, your talent, in the same genres and the same, you know, television, film, comedy, drama, whatever it is. It's just your taste is going to continue to evolve. And that's what you want to continue doing is just, he wants to know, he's trying to ask Ben, sorry, it's a long way to go. He's trying to ask if you're, if you're Oscar hunting. That's what he wants to know. Who isn't Jason? Right.

You know, or do you want to, or do you want to do something about a guy who is like in his early fifties, who started working out and he went to fight camp and he only plays 38. You know what I mean? Is that, is that a story that interests you? Like a guy, like he's unassuming, he's kind of dry. Shut it, Sean. I'm telling a story about a guy who nobody's ever seen before. Who's very well lit. Yeah. He's very well lit. I, um, no, I, you know, it's a good question, Jason. It's a really good question. And I am sort of constantly asking myself that, I guess, as I go through life these days, because I'm trying to find the balance and, you know, that's really important to me is the balance of being able to have my personal life that I feel good in. And I found over the years,

and I'm sure you've experienced, you've all experienced this, that it's challenging to do that. And I think I'm more self aware of these days about that. But I love, I love directing. I'm trying to reconnect with my acting self, you know, like I'm really trying to figure it out. I know I love acting, but I don't want to also do it. There's something, you know, just to be honest, there's something very, uh, the enticing about being an actor and being a star of things and having, you know, all that attention. Well, and also it's, it's, it's of all the jobs, producer, writer, director, actor, whatever. It's kind of like you have your shit and that's, you don't have to worry about all the big picture stuff. You know, you have to worry about your scene work. It's,

I think. Right. But that, that, I'm trying not to go, I don't want to go back to it just because I've kind of enjoy that part of it, you know, or the mula. The mula is really good too. But you enjoy working as an actor in, in what are like director vehicles, like working with some of your heroes. I would love to do that. Yes. I'd love to keep acting in other people's movies or even television shows too. Figuring out a comedy to do. I would, I would love to jump back in. I've been talking to Mike judge about something. And I think I love Mike judge. And so what a, what a, Jason, you worked with him. What a great, what an incredible comedic voice. What, what about doing something like Sean does though? Like, would you be able to go,

Sean's in Chicago talking about sacrificing. He goes there and he's rehearsing and doing this play nonstop every day too. Ben, I don't know if you know this, Sean's had incredible reviews for his film. I want to see this play and I had a personal interest in the Oscar LeVance story because Stuart Kornfeld had, had championed it for a long time. And I've got, I've got up in my living room, a Richard Avedon portrait of LeVance from late in his life. Incredible shot when he, you know, very near the end, which just really kind of a striking photo. Yes, I know the one. To Sean, it totally makes sense for you to give it to Sean. Yeah, just give it to him. Or come over to my house and look at it. Yeah. Just commit to giving it to him now.

You're on the show. But we, could you ever see yourself been doing that, doing eight shows a week on Broadway? You've done that. Yes, I could. I have done it not for a long time. Yeah. And I've been thinking about that too. It could be really, really, it's scary, but I'm curious, Sean, have you enjoyed the process? Yeah, very much so. I mean, talk about, you know, I think it's right up your alley, Ben, not that you don't know that already, but just the day-to-day scene work, the dramaturgy of discovering, you know, intense. When you keep going with something, because you never get to do that when you're doing a movie or show. That's exactly right. That you get into, I mean, to performance 100 or 150 and all of a sudden you're having to discover

new stuff and it can open up in a way that it never did before. It's really cool. And you discover, and through the rehearsal process, you break down just every word, every sentence, every moment, and it's, and you refine it. It's really cool. And isn't there also a great simplicity to doing theater too, where it's like you live your life, you wake up, you know, you have your routine, you maybe ride your bike to the theater, you know, you have your backpack. I mean, it's simple if you're not a crazy person like I am, which is like I wake up, I'm like, I gotta warm up my, do the voice thing, and then you gotta make sure you drink to it and eat the right thing, and then you gotta go early. Finger exercises for all the piano playing, right?

Are you actually playing the piano? I'm actually playing the Rhapsody in Blue. He's a classically trained pianist. He's doing wow. Yeah, he's incredible. Yeah, well, thanks. And so everything is leading to that performance time, right? Yeah, it's a really cool concept. Doug Wright, who wrote it, it's a true story that Oscar LeVan got a pass from the treatment center that he was in a four hour pass to get out and appear on a game show. For our play, we switched it to tonight's show, because everybody knows that tonight's show. So he's got four hours to appear, then he has to go back to treatment, and it's what happened in that night. And Sean does it every night, and he plays the piano,

and he does all these, he's got like 80 monologues, he does this all on a belly of Philly McDonald's every night, right? Will actually ran lines with me on the tour, and he was like, you have to fucking say that. He was, he was, honestly, Ben, I thought like, oh, this is, I just, I would call it and just say, I'm not showing up. I'm sorry. I quit. That's incredible. Speaking of quitting, yes, Spen. Ben, we've taken up, we could do two hours, three hours with you. I love being a part of your show. Your show is awesome. It's, by the way, in our family, it's the one podcast, because we're not a big podcast family, but it's, it's, it's,

he reached the whole family. My daughter, I think, has listened to every single episode. No way. Aw, that's sweet. The Teller High, please. She's, yeah, big fan. Even Christine, who's not a big podcast listener, really enjoys the show. Teller High, too. But then you're going to say, even Christine, who dislikes Will immensely. Here's how much my daughter likes it. She has no interest in F1, Formula 1 racing. I'm really into it. My son, Clint, is getting into it, too.

I'm getting into it, too. But she and I were driving from Boston to New York, and we listened to the Daniel Ricardo episode. And she, and she sat through it because she doesn't, cares nothing about F1, but because she loves the show, she listened to it. I thought it was, that was a fascinating episode to hear him talk about. He's a cool dude. I thought it was great because he's so fascinating. But anyway, the show is awesome and happy to be with you guys. We didn't even cover any of the Torrid Love Affair between Tony Wander and Joe Bluth.

I know, but you guys want to have a private moment. Ben, do you ever have people come up to you and just say, same? Do you remember, Ben? Do you remember how insane that day was when we shot that stuff? We laughed so hard. Ridiculous. It's so much fun. Sean, our characters, our characters on Arrested. Sean's never, Arrested is about, was a show that used to be on the Jason and I and Ben was on, and his wife, Christine, the whole Stiller family was on, you were not on it, and you've never watched it. And this nice episode was Sean. But Ben and our recurring thing over the years was that our characters were competing magicians. And at the very end, it turns out that maybe

they were in love with each other, but maybe neither of them had never really had a friend. So that's why they liked each other. That's hysterical. It was insane. Very ambiguous. Yeah. And we were really connected when we got together. Yeah. Like both in sort of like, yeah, same, same, same. That's really funny. Well, we love you here at Smart List, Ben. We love you, Ben. And hi to the family, and thank you for saying yes to sitting with us for an hour. Great to see you all, and hopefully we'll see each other soon.

Great to see you too, man. That'd be great. All right, buddy. Talk soon. Bye, guys. Bye, Ben. Bye, Ben. Bye, Ben. Ben Franklin Stiller, unbelievable. He's great. I mean, isn't he? He's one of the most famous comedic actors of our generation. He's done so much. I mean, a little bit of history on him. So many huge comedy. I know. It's nuts.

If you had done any research at all, Jason, then you would have been here for three hours. Some of the stuff, if just any. But Jason, do you remember that first day when he showed up on Arrested, and we only had him for like two hours because he was in the middle of like eight big movies? Yeah, yeah. And just the whole set, everybody was just a buzz. Ben Stiller wanted to do our show, and we got to do this. We had him for like 12 minutes. This was crazy. I was so glad that I didn't have to work with him. I would have been a nervous wreck.

I was with Tony Hale, I guess, with Buster that first time. I was so nervous. And I met him just a couple of times. He'd done that movie with Amy and Jack. But you used it though, right? I just seem to remember Job sort of like took on this air of like, oh, here's my competition. Like being kind of like all nervous and kind of uptight and aggressive. I was mad at him, but I was also still like, you know. Deeply in love. Yeah. Making faces. Jay, have you had a chance to check out Severance yet? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, it's bitching.

I haven't. I'm only three, like I said, three episodes in, so please don't say anything. I love this show. I didn't even, no, I won't. But I didn't even, I didn't know he directed it. I watched it. Oh, really? And then I was like, I really, I said to this guy, I was like, God, this is directed so well. I'm not making that up. And we looked it up. I was like, Ben Stiller directed it. That is crazy. I mean, something that specific and that precise, it doesn't just happen. Like there is a really qualified hand at play there.

You know, you know, well, Jason, you were kind of saying when he sets up the, like shooting the thing, when they do those huge establishing shots of that place where they work and just the way it looks and the tone of the shot, just aesthetically, all of it. And you're like, it's so different and new from what you know of his body of work. And you're like, oh, he's doing something totally new. And then, and I get that he's trying to go genreless. That he's just like, yeah, I'm going to do this now. But he's just basically, I mean, he's, he's listening to his taste, I guess.

And that was my question. Like, how does a guy that comes from what is traditional, you know, like the sketch world doesn't put a big, a big value on, you know, aesthetics and like, you know, focal length on lenses and things like, you know, it is all about, well, just let's just write some funny stuff and make sure the camera's pointed at the person talking. You know, how does he develop that kind of taste and affinity for, you know, the stuff he's doing now? I don't know. But clearly it's a whole other side of him that I don't know. And he's probably inspired by lots of different, you know, he's obviously, he's an incredibly funny comedic actor, then incredibly funny comedic filmmaker,

because he kind of did those two things simultaneously. And then now he's just going and people are sending him scripts and he's just, and he's just getting inspired by whatever is near. Bye. Near. Wow, that's looking at him out of nowhere from the rear. That's how you do a fucking bi-dix. Unbelievable. Well, I'm going to go think about that one. I hate having to teach so much. You must be exhausted from teaching. I'm teaching and I'm learning. Smart. Less. Smart. Less. Smart. Less is 100% organic and artisanly handcrafted by Rob Armjolf, Bennett Barbaco,

and Michael Grant Terry. Smart. Less. Our next episode will be out in a week, wherever you listen to podcasts, or you can listen to it right now, early on Amazon music or early and add free by subscribing to Wondery Plus in Apple Podcasts or the Wondery app.