SmartLess - "Benedict Cumberbatch"

Episode Date: November 24, 2025

Step into our stretch limousine — it’s Benedict Cumberbatch. Corndogs, Nature vs. Nurture, and [very lightly touching upon] How-To Clean Yourself. It’s a podcast, folks… and it’s called SmartLess, k? Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ to listen to new episodes of SmartLess ad-free and a whole week early. Start a free trial now on Apple Podcasts or by visiting siriusxm.com/podcastsplus. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, Sean, hey, what's up? Hey, it's me. I know, it's you just said your name. I know I'm just talking to you. Just relax about it. Hey, we're about to do another episode of SmartLess. Hey, for Tracy, cold open. This is a cold open.

Cold Open is like, hey, she knows what cold open is. Hey, shut up. I'm talking to her right now. Just give me two seconds. I've got to explain what a cold open is. She knows what a cold open. It's said it a million times. Oh, Tracy, cold opens what you say at the beginning of an episode before you start the episodes

so people know you're starting the episode. I'm exhausted. Me too. Me as well. Don't forget about me. Also me. Welcome to SmartLess. Smart. Less.

Oh, God. That was probably our surprise guest. Our surprise guest fell in it. You probably just... Oh, no. Uh, where are, so let's see, everybody is at home base, it seems like, uh, you know, Willie, where are you? I'm on Long Island. Oh, you're back there. Oh, what are you doing back there?

Our little R&R? I just made a little quick scoot out here for, uh, for a night. What, did you like, forget a pair of shoes you really liked out there? No, Jason. No, but I mean, seriously, isn't it a hassle trying to figure out what you're going to keep in your second home's closet versus, um, what's back in Los Angeles? Is it mostly winter wear out there on the island? There's a lot of winter wear.

And it's chilly out here right now, so it's been really, it was beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. No, I came out of here with my little guy yesterday, and just to kind of stick around, we were walking around, went into town, went to the bookstore. Well, that's nice.

Yeah, it cranked up the pool, even though it's cold out, it's real fun. Yeah. And just super nice. Does he swim? yet yeah he does you know yes he's he's in the process of learning sink slowly now slower yeah he's he's he's five so he's not but he's come a long way like he's you know he does that thing where like he can swim underwater you know so they whatever they don't can't do in

terms of strokes they just can do it underwater get a hey dad yeah that means he can't swim you know swimming is trying to keep yourself buoyant and above you know I know you know I know. I can't really swim, you know. Did you guys? Is that true? Yeah, I was petrified. Are you, are you a weak swimmer? Yeah, I can.

I don't know how to do it. I run out of breath in like 10 seconds. No, truly. Yeah, I can. I don't have the, I don't have the lung support to swim. Well, that's not true. Well, you don't know how to do it. You don't know how to do it.

You sing. If you swim, you don't need. How do you not have the lung? You don't need to hold your breath if you can actually swim. Yeah, but the actual aerobic kind of movements that make your heart pump faster than you have to breathe faster. I just fail. really quickly at it.

Okay. Do you know what I mean? Hang on. Yeah, go ahead. Please, do you do this one, Will. I just want to take this one apart a little bit. I can't be the only person. That can't swim?

No, you're not. But do you... You get too tired to keep yourself from drowning. That's what it is. That's what it is. Well, is that because you're panicking and so you're catching your short of breath? No, I think maybe I just do too much too quickly. I don't realize how to...

I don't know how to swim, so I paddle really, fast than I use up all my energy really quickly. He's in an immediate panic. Yeah, I do. I wish people could see the motions that Shoney's doing. Shoney, do you, did you ever take swim lessons? Clearly not. He's moving both hands at the same time, listener.

Instead of, you know, most of us rotate, right hand, left hand, right arm, left arm. I only know. But, Sean, you can, you exercise and you don't run out of breath. I know. I don't understand it. So it's not that you don't. What about, like, walking up a bunch of steps? Like, if you walk up.

up too many stairs, you don't just like collapse and roll down the stairs, right? No, no, no, I don't. I don't know what it is about the swimming or the pool. Just go slower up the stairs so that you can make it. Are you swimming, like, have you got a... Like, I don't float. Right, well, none of us too.

That's surprising. Do you, I mean, have you got like a corn dog in your hand? What's going on that you... By the way, I love a corn dog. It should be netted. In the pool. I fucking love a corn dog. I really, I do too.

And I feel like they've kind of gone by the way of like the bungee jumping and things like that. I mean, I wouldn't know if I put them in the same category as bungee jumping. I want to know where all the stretch limousines and the corn dogs have gone. But you get some, you get a corn dog, you get a corn dog and you dip it in some just yellow French's mustard. Yes, that's the best ever. Forget it. I know. What about some of the little cheese, little cheese dip?

Oh, yeah. Yeah, throw it in a little tub of cheese. Yeah, I'll do that. A hot dog on a stick was a big spot out here with the funny multicolored hats. Hot dog on a stick. Where was that? No, never heard of it. Yeah, we had a bunch of those like in the valley.

There was some out at the beach. Sean, I'm surprised you're not a hot dog on a stick guy. I don't. I'm who says I'm not? I try it. I'll try it. No, no, no. But I mean, that was like that was a famous, that was a great spot.

What about it? What about a, I had this discussion with somebody? What about a pig in a blanket? Yeah, I do enjoy those Yeah, putting a puff pastry Anything with a puff pastry Speaking of which, I have not seen Scotty in a long time Yeah, he's just around this guy

Yeah, he's all tidied up on the couch Oh, sorry, no, that's a bear and a comforter Sorry, I've confused the two Cubs and a comforter Oh my God, it's a cub furter Scottie's gonna kick my ass when he sees me next. That's really funny.

Well, listen, that's a great cue for a guest. What if you just panned over? And he's on the couch. Just in like a snuggy. Yeah. What if you just walked up to Scuddy, just sort of squirting French's mustard on? Taking big bites or licks.

Here goes. Here goes. Guys, we got a real live one today. All right? This guest is a man with 10. talent, looks, smarts. He's got many nominations, plenty of wins, box office, sock, critical respect. He's got massive dramatic range, razor sharp comedic skills, and a British accent.

That's the triple crown. But most importantly, he's got a wife. He's got three sons and one of the best names in the Screen Actors Guild Directory. Friends, say hello to Benedict Cumberbatch. No kidding. Come on, Al. I was going to guess it. He's got two middle names, too.

Two middle names. What are they? What are they? As if it wasn't enough, Benedict Timothy Carlton. Timothy Carlton. It gets better. I use them on off days. No, that's dad's name. It's a thing of just trying to squeeze the whole family into one small child's head.

Benedict Timothy, what is it again? Carlton. Carlton Cumberbatch. Yeah. Fabulous. How are you? So nice to meet you. Drink him in, you guys.

I'm good. I mean, I'm already. I mean, I'm just. I've got a rictus grin on my face. I can hardly speak not only because of that absurdly nice introduction, but it's a real privilege to listen to the top of the show as your surprise guest. And I was panicking it, oh, Christ. If I laugh, will they hear me laugh?

Would you completely moose me at the beginning or not? If Bennett and Rob were on the stick, they'd have your mic down before we introduce you, and instead we're hearing you dropping shit, Bennett, Rob, God damn it. No, there was a sound like my body dropping with shock at being a surprise guest. And that was that I am in my house with my wife, and the full mention three kids. So that was probably the wind catching a door. Let's hope it's not a temper tantrum because I'm not like that.

How old are the boys? Or an intruder. They are. Yeah, guys, I've got to go. She's quite serious. Don't get murdered on the show. No, that'd be great, great ratings. That would be a first.

Ratings. The boys are how old? Six, eight and ten. Six, eight and ten. Well planned. Yeah. Jesus. Was that on purpose?

Kind of. Let's do two years apart? Kind of, yes. We did want to get on with it. Yeah. And so he's a trooper. She's amazing. Good thinking.

I didn't, for some reason, you know, because people know, I'm super bright. I missed it. I wanted three, and I just didn't plan it well. And there's a five-year gap between the two. And then we just aged out. Couldn't have a third, you know? Oh, great story. Hey.

That's a fall. By the way, or you could do what I did. Just have the gap anyway. And they just, you know. Oh, and just reload. Yeah, sorry, hang on. Is it a better way to say that. Is it a better way to say that.

So to speak. Still rolling. Unload? Let's reset. What? Oh, Jesus. Benedict, is that something, the three kids? Is it something that, is it like, did you guys agree to a number?

Or is it just like, well, we're living? living life and this is what happened. Sophie comes from three. No, I'm an only chance. I panicked when our second was on the way. And what do you do? Do you divide yourself? How do you love as much both things

without necessarily having more time to do that? And, you know, there are the odd moments when you're on a kind of solo date with one of them and you kind of go, am I really cheating out of a lot of this? But then you see them when they're not trying to kill each other, getting on as friends and think, no, I've given you the gift of a lifetime

that'll outlast me. have three you have two people in your life that will always be there yeah do you want it or not at times but you know it's it's amazing so i i swung around to the idea pretty quickly and i love it i love it they're like a kind of tribe of cubs running yeah you sort of like you started to go there a bit on like as i thought about that when i had my second kid i was like well wait am i going to be able to love this one as much as i love the first one and you're like are you an only child no i i have a sister just acts like one yeah What do you say?

But no, like, when I had, when we had Maple, we already had Frannie, and five years later we had Maple, and I was so crazy about Frannie, and then here comes Maple, right? A stranger comes in the house, brand new baby, and you're just like,

well, I can't wait to get to know you. I hope I love you as much as the first one. And like, what, you, it's a tall order. It turns out. Did you do that? I love to. No, but then. She would be talking about it.

I think a lot of parents probably go through that, right? Whether you're aware of it or not. I think it's a very natural reaction because the first time you have a child that is, I said, oh, your entire, all of it changes to your orbit of the world, the way you see your parents, your place in that whole thing is just utterly realized at a very real moment. And that is it is what I'm trying to say. You think, oh, this is it. This is what life's about.

And you go, oh, no, but it's until the next one, it has to be the same. And it is. But it's weird. It's the same as women forgetting most of the time, but, you know, that physiologically forget, apparently, the birth pain about what women go through. Yeah, I can't imagine. Otherwise, why would your human body even want to be able to be impregnated?

You know, it's just the whole thing. Or wear heels. It focuses on this, it heals. Sure. We're just, you know. Go ahead, Will. No, I'm not expanding on that. You don't want to touch that one?

No, I don't want to touch any of it. But it is fun. And what's amazing, too, is how different, and God, I'm like the quadrillionth person to bring this up, but I also have three boys, Benedict, and how entirely different they are from each other. Absolutely. Even my boys who are less than two years apart are so vastly different personality-wise. And had virtually the same experience growing up, you know. And I've said this before.

What's your take on this, Benedict? How much do you think is nature? How much do you think is nurture? Right? Because these three boys of yours, it's all nature, right? I mean, you can nurture, I think. Here we go, answering the question for the guest again, which I'd love to do. I think it's like five or ten percent you can move your kid, good or bad. Otherwise, you just, you get what you get. If they're going to be fantastic, they're fantastic. If they're going to be a challenge, they're going to be a challenge. You can have the best parents in the world and it's just you get what you get. What do you think? I don't know I think you're right about they arrive with something

that's beyond our understanding really there is this thing which if you're really open to it especially those first sort of five seven years and you present the world as a thing that's open and full of wonder and a safe place and full of magic as we very much know sometimes in reality it isn't but if you give them that space just to be themselves

you do see these extraordinary creatures just become something of their own accord. But I think it does need a lot of nurture and love. However, you know, you're right. Within that, they do things which are certainly to do with nature because how can a child give you love in a time of need as an adult, which I've experienced in my family and partly to do with the film we've got to talk about at some point,

but, you know, it feels like it is, they are capable in the words of Max Porter in the novel of giving something back that isn't, it's not asked for it's not caused by anything other than them having an empathy or a link or an understanding of what love is that's human instinct that you're innately born with and yeah and I think without getting too

wishy-washy about it if I haven't already that is nature that is something that's sort of sent from somewhere else you start crying in the first 15 minutes we're going to have a problem Jason real quick empathy is yeah spell it

no I think it's yeah It's a mind-blower. It is a mind-blower. I'd have 12 kids if I could. Yeah, I think they're here to teach us, really. So, like you say, I think it is, I don't know about percentiles, but it's mostly nature. They are innertly, innately, not inertly,

and very much actively wonderful gifts. Let's go back there with you, Benedict, your childhood. So you say you were an only child, and you were born to two actors, yes, mom and dad? Mom and dad, one, Van Them and Timothy Colton. That's amazing, right? It's so common on our show, too, when we have somebody as prolific as you

that it seems like they always come from an artist's family. Yeah, but rarely two actors, though, right? Usually they're sculptors or poets or something like that. So then I'm sure the answer would be no to the question of was there pressure to become an actor? It was probably just something that you were just naturally interested in because you saw your two first heroes doing that? A little. And also, I was, if anything, pressured the other way.

Like, don't do what we're doing. It's a stupid way to spend a life. Look how peripatetic and uselessly we are at other things and how family life is a chaotic jumble of loose-end commitments that have to be abandoned at the last minute because Dad's got an advert audition. I mean, it was just, you know, they did really, really well in their careers. especially commercially. Dad, brilliantly as well in the theatre, he did a lot of the roll court in the early days of kitchen sink drama there. But the point is, you know,

they wanted me to have the opportunities that they didn't, although they didn't have in their life as my parents. And they afforded me in education where I could have gone on to be a lawyer or something of that. That was the only other thing I flirted with, which is why I say that I did for a while. Sean flirted with a lawyer in the parking lot last night. and then I got to take the court for it

but what do you mean they wanted but Benedict they wanted you have access to opportunity to something more predictable in your life career-wise I think it's something more stable definitely yeah and but the bug had bit really and it was very much to do with watching them and their prime doing doing what they did and I remember my dad in cast of noises off

this amazing Michael frame play that's about, it's a farce within a farce. It's this amazingly kaleidoscopic, brilliant examination of a British tradition of comedy, which obviously you guys know called farce. My mum was doing the real thing, and even the real farses that were

very duble entendre heavy, very misogynistic and homophobic at times as well to the point. I said, Mum, you really can't do another play where you walk into a room where your husband is having his pants pulled down by his male PA and it looks like fallatio. Whereas in fact he's just trying to give him a quick change

and his dress is stuck, I can't be your son and call myself proud if you keep doing this. But I do remember perversely to that embarrassment sort of sitting in the wings and watching her go through and just be mum and sort of chatting to me and saying hello to the SM and then just kind of opening the door and this light and heat and noise of what was happening in front of those flats hitting her and her just transforming, just in the blink of an eye

And I thought, what is that? What just happened to my mom? Where did she go? And, yeah, I kind of got a taste for that. And as a only child, I think you're kind of already locked in a bit to quite a solitary, imaginary universe. When was it that you understood what they were kind of talking about when it comes to the career that you can't really count on? Like, how young were you? And do you remember that moment of going, yeah, but I get it's unpredictable.

but I still want to go for it and try it. Numerous occasions. I'm too old to really remember. Still today. It's still today, exactly. Right, for all of us. I think a bit, yeah. Am I really doing this?

Yeah, I'm doing it. You know, there were moments when I thought, okay, sage advice from ones who know, but I'm going to do it differently. I think I've got a different way into this. Yeah. And I don't know that it will be different. And in fact, really all I wanted was what they have,

which is a career and respect from their peers and having a good time doing a job they love. You know, and that's what a great way to live your life. Yeah, yeah. You were chasing the right thing. So, you know, my way of doing it differently was perhaps going, okay, well, the things that you've done and you're like, maybe, I don't know, I don't know,

but I knew I was throwing, I knew I was throwing it to the wind, and I knew I was chancing it. But I think the moment I thought, I can't really not do this, is when I got serious, about A levels before going to college, a university in England, obviously. And, yeah, I met a lot of lawyers who are saying,

look, turn back now, people who are doing bar exams or people who had made it into being part of a chamber or even people practicing going, it's just, it's really pretty hard. It's an oversubscribed profession. It's very perpetrated. Yeah, you're only as good as your last case. I thought, that sounds very familiar.

Why am I doing this, which would have acquired an inordinate amount of work on my part? I'm not that smart at all. And I would have had to work so hard for what? For as big a risk. But at least the credentials, the stuff you come out of college with, you are somewhat guaranteed a base salary and some future to it. Whereas with anything in the arts, you don't have that.

And so if one or two or three of your boys said, hey, I want to go into acting, would you, what would you as a father would you recommend that they dedicate the requisite number of years needed to kind of build a base or would you say ah what to have a backup you mean or put that time into something that is a bit more predictable where there's a guarantee you can count on yeah as a parent of course yeah because you worry about what the world will be let alone what their talent will be or won't be recognized as and where their ambitions and dreams are and their expectations of what the reality is and the gap between that.

You never know that you're going to get to where you want to be. I'd tell my kids all the time, roll the dice. I'm always like, just roll the dice. Just fucking. I'm afraid, you know, I did it. I did it. So, well, how can I turn them away from something that I ended up doing? Actually, you know what's funny?

You know what's funny, though? I will say, the difference now is, well, one of my sons, I think, is going to likely pursue something in the arts. And the other one is, yeah. And he's sort of leaning that way. And the other one is not, he's, and he was talking about some areas. And I said, here's the thing that they're talking about amongst their friends.

He's, as my eldest son, he's a junior in high school here. So he's 17. He says, I said, they have to talk about what are the jobs out there going forward that are going to be affected by AI. And so kids are thinking about, like, you know, they don't want to become computer programmers or they're not going to become, you know, things like graphic design. Well, by the way, go down.

Lawyers as well, legal work. All that stuff is going to be handled by AI. So now you're not competing against other kids. You're competing against the computers of the world. Right, right, right, right. I know, I know, I know. I don't envy them right now. And we're avoiding the fact that AI is massively in our industry as well.

Oh, yeah. Exactly. Of course it is. Yeah, what's safe. All right. It's evening here. Can you see, I can't... It just got really dark there.

It got really, really dark there. It's very moody. That's very nice. It's beautiful. Oh, nice. Now we can see you. Is that better? Oh, Benedict. Okay.

Got it. Oh, it's Benedict. Oh, it's Benedict. Oh, it's better than Cover Batch. All right, so like Sweet Willie Arnett, you did some time in boarding school. Was that a positive experience or was it challenging? because I get homesick real easy that would be tough for me

how long have we got just the perfect mixture of both I'd say the first one was amazing I mean I'm an only child as I keep saying it I had a band of brothers for the first time in my life so that was that was easy street to 13

and then the whole adolescence thing and it was a single sex one and it was at the sort of top of a hill looking down over the London basin and yet so oh so very far away from it and I just thought this isn't quite right this isn't real the demographic was very narrow and no girls and I just

the school itself was extraordinary some amazing teachers and fantastic experiences but at that point I was like okay the boarding thing I think I'm done with not because I was homesick but because I just I guess I wanted to be part of a broader community but that's a healthy thing there's also a very healthy thing to be straining away

it was that was me leaving the nest I was already at home lever I guess at the age of eight I boarded when I was eight We'll be right back And now, back to the show Wait, so Bennett You were eight when you went away, yeah? Yeah, yeah

How will be you? I was 12, but my roommate had come from When I was 12, I was in seventh grade, my roommate had just come from boarding school in England and he had been there since he was seven. Yeah. I bet you're easier when you go younger, right? will than when you're older because you just you've you've you've created those relationships

once you were way younger yes i mean i i'll sort of i'll sort of um jump on what benedict said which is you do create now i have siblings i have two older sisters and a younger brother quick what are their names and fucking garrie both days absolutely what's i'm saying are they yeah target tesco and tannis tannis and tannis and shaman or my sisters, and my brother's name is Chuck, aka Charles. So anyway, I was at boarding, but I went when I was 12, and you do have, and I'm still friends with some of those guys that I went to school with, because in those formative years,

and I also was just all boys, when I went, it was all boys, it's now co-ed. But it is, you know, when I look back on it now, and I don't know how you feel about it, Benedict, but the idea of my boy is going away, there's no fucking way. Right, I know. I couldn't stand up. No, not unless they really want to, but no way, no way, no way.

And Sophie's the same mindset, you know, we do, yeah, and selfishly, I want them around. I want to be part of, even summer camp, whatever, whatever, however pushed away I am, I still want to be there in case the call comes, the fall happens, the need. Yeah, so can I ask a question to the group here? Yeah. Because I don't have a kid. Just one kid. Let me look at the clock real quick.

Yeah, if you make it quick, yes. Yeah, Benedict, get comfortable. This is going to be a long question. Oh, shit. It took his jacket off. When you asked a question. It's hot on here. No, is what is the, because I don't know about boarding school, why would a parent send their kid to boarding school?

Better education, focus. Okay. Yes, question? Amazing facilities. Very immersive educational experience where you have, well, the beginning of it only where you have a very structured timetable. So there's sort of purpose to, your day. It's very

fulfilling. God, I sound like a brochure. Yeah, because it always sounds like a jail or something. No, no. They're very plush places. It's like Hogwarts. It's like incredible. Yeah. Oh, I'm in. That is exactly how it was described once by Martin Freeman. He said, I went to a North school and Benedict

went to Hogwarts, which I kind of did. It wasn't a wizard school, but it was a particularly old one. It is, but it is true. And, you know, think about all those things. You learn how to, you know, by the time I got to college age, I dropped out quickly from college but and part of it was because

everybody my peers who were there who did not go to boarding school it was their first time away from home and I'd been away from home so so much earlier that getting out I was ready to get out of the world I was like I'm ready to go yeah yeah I've been

looking after having a frat party and like isn't it cool to party yeah and you're like no I've already done this true true true and I think I don't know I'm here and I've come of it okay and i wouldn't really change it i wouldn't know what i'd change it too i didn't have any other experience but like jason who taught you how to tie a tie oh that would have been

or a set dresser uh the set on set costumer for rest of development is that true really no really but i i did really nail it down on that because i had to tie a tie every freaking day and then loosen it and then loosen and then roll up the sleeves roll up the sleeve because michael bluth can i just something just as an aside Michael Bluth this guy well he got down well he got down to business

he was rolling up those sleeves if you go back and you watch Jason push his sleeves until to this day well you've given me a full complex about that because that's just that's just Jason

that's not Michael Bluth it's just I always roll up my sleeves on a button down shirt and I still do it to this day and I think it I hear your stupid fucking GMC voice every morning

when I roll up my sleeves getting down the business you're thinking stupid fuck all right now how long of you two know each of was that when you two first met on arrested development

I think so too long yeah and now we're stuck on this podcasting so now you must have loved you guys it's such a blast being out I have to say

I'm a huge huge fan of this show and it's just it's one of these things one of my best friends put me on to he said if you got to hear I mean I love all of your work individually but yeah it's a very good thing you've got going here it's fantastic now listen back to you you must have enjoyed the education at the boarding school enough when i said that well you've

become you've become a teacher yourself and you teach english what in a Tibetan community what's untrue just outside of Dajarling India yeah yes I like that um especially the pronunciation I said, de Jarling, that's the idea. No, I was... How do you say it? How do you say it? We should all now say it, Dejarling. Wait, what is it? How do you say it? Did you go to Dejaling, darling?

No, Darjeeling, I think. Darjeeling, that's it. Dergieling. Did you go to Dejarling? No, I didn't have the de time. It's great. My dad has this habit of doing... He says, oh, I think I'm going to go to Marks and Spencers and buy a miles bar.

Dad, what? You're a trait. actor what did i do well every summer in a biza i i i like to de jay you know for like a week or two i'll go down there to jay wow so so so jay so jay so so it is true wait so you're taught you taught english in a taboo community yeah i mean it's a very loose term i kind of turned up and they giggled at me which was fair enough cultural exchange well no it was very often i learned i learned I learned so much. As you can imagine, I was a 19-year-old kid who knew nothing who'd come from a very kind of, you know, enclosed private school, you know, boarding school education. And it was the first talk at the school that we had given to us. This has got a school I went to. We got given talks about what you could do with your year out if you wanted to take one between school and university and college. Yeah, a little gap year. Exactly. And it was the first one I heard about and I just went.

I didn't really listen to it being about teaching. It was all about being close to Tibetan culture. I just had this very strong gravitational pull in my soul. I thought, I have to do this. There's nothing. I know people are, well, don't you want to volunteer in Africa? Don't you want to climb a mountain? All these amazing opportunities.

And I just was deaf to all of them because of how strongly I felt I needed to do this. What was the pull to the Tibetan culture? When did that start? Yeah, I don't know. Maybe in a previous lifetime. I really don't know. I mean, I was fascinated by it visually and I knew a bit about Buddhism

but it was just so overwhelming and as was the experience I had there was six months of, well, five months of teaching and then some tourism tied to the end. Wandering about India and Nepal which was both of which were extraordinary and any poll from Everest at all? Was that part of the poll at all?

Because I've got this fascination with Everest but would that part of it should we do it I'd like I'll do it yeah I want to get at least a base camp in my lifetime I would but you know

then you hear about how much pollution there is how much tourism and craziness there is and I kind of go well maybe there's a better mountain to walk down then what watch watch how quickly

we can turn Jason off Everest do you know how dirty it is Jason wait what yeah and the tents the tents are really dirty I just shower every night you know

they don't have showers they don't change the linens no they don't change the linens you can't use sanitizer there's no ring that out that would be scary yeah yeah

but all right so that was sorry it wasn't the landscape did have a pull in all seriousness of course it did it's such an extraordinary bit of geography

that whole area and this is in the foothills so going towards Darjeeling and it's a little hill station town called Sanada and it was a

converted Nepali house and at the top was this monastery this prayer room below was the monk's accommodation the eating area and then a small

teaching area and I might have got the height or numbers of levels wrong but I was basically very much on the bottom and it was really we were high up in what 4,000 metres something like that and you open the window and it was

sort of coming into autumn and winter there so the clouds would literally roll in like dry ice through the window it was absolutely extraordinary and pretty basic my dad reminded me his panic this is pre-cell phones I'm that old and the internet as well I'm that old

and it was a moment where I'd written in tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny scrawl on a blue airmail letter home one weekend. Don't worry, Dad, all the cold is solved now in my room as I have a gas heater and I've managed to block all the vents and he was reading it and going to go, oh my God, he's going to die of carbon monoxide poison. Yeah. I didn't, but, you know, might explain a few brain cells less that I have now, but it was very basic but very romantic, very hard, very lonely,

very elating, very inspiring, and spiritually, mind-blowing, and utterly mundane. And it was just a really... How do you clean yourself? Sorry, Benedict. Like, how do you... We're talking about how many days... How many days are you out there? Sean's talking to somebody off camera.

He's setting up the weekend. He's talking to his dog licking its balls. How do you do that? We all want to know, Sean. We all want to know. I'll show you. That's my teaching class. That's my teaching class.

He's talking to somebody off camera. Show me after. When I'm done, I'm doing the podcast and show me. Sean, your mic's still hot. I can't wait to see. Show you, show me after. No, I'm recording a podcast. I'm doing it now, but you start.

Start now. They can't see. Start. Okay. Wait, I want to know the answer. Back to business. What the fuck? What was your question about?

How do I clean myself? Yeah. Even the real... In general, or... But a small street in a happily house. No, when you... With melted snow.

When you're out there in a tent for what day's weeks? What do you do? No. No, no, no. I was in a house. I was in a house. Oh, next question. He's filling in for someone this week, Benedict.

I thought you were in a tent. Is it a zipper or buttons? Is it a zipper or buttons? Show me, is it? Do you need a lufa back there? Scotty, get the lufa. All right, so let's move to that. Now, so we're back from Dejarling,

and we're going to make a... The DJ. We're back from you, DJ. And we're going to make a career of this acting thing. And we're going to go for the acting, and we get a little bit of momentum going, and we're on our first film set. Which is...

That's a fucking long way into the story, but maybe the only bit's boring. To kill a king. Is that a first feature film role? Yes? I don't remember. Maybe that was my first feature. But do you remember what that first, being on a set for the first time,

how did that, how did that jive with what you had, you'd gone through all this great theater education, acting education, and then you're on a set and you see all the equipment and you're just doing little bits at a time as opposed to theater. Like, how did that strike you, this film process? I just remember, I remember small snippets. of Du Grace Scott being very lovely and serious and smoky voiced. I remember Julian Ryan Tuck being very sort of funny and witty

and just being incredibly on it. And me laughing quite a lot. I don't remember anything that I did in front of camera. I didn't come away going, oh, wow, yeah, okay, camera work. Interesting. Not because it was a bad experience. I'm being genuine about my lack of memory of that particular experience. You don't remember being scolded for looking at the camera?

Did I? Maybe I have, maybe you've spoken to the director. No, no, no. That would be, that would be my fault. Well, no, so, I mean, I guess, well, two things. I suppose mum and dad helped in that regard a little bit, not because they rehearsed me or anything like that, and I think stage mummy, but just, I guess I was a little bit aware of what you do and don't do on a set, having been on a couple where they were doing their thing.

But also, and funny enough, I'd been, my first ever film job, TV job, was in Heartbeat, which is an ITV staple, or was. in England a very nostalgic police drama set on the Yorkshire Dales and was at the Moors

sorry Yorkshire God Olivia did this when she was talking to you about Devon and Devon and Dorset is Devon by the way that's what we've done see I do listen to your show

and I just remember being very nervous on heartbeat set I do remember that very very well and just wondering am I any good I don't know what I'm doing And I know there's something capturing everything I'm doing. I'm like an audience which has this kind of multi-camera perspective.

And you can't watch yourself back. You can. And I really wanted to, but I didn't. But I kind of wanted to know, what the fuck am I doing? What am I doing too much, too little? Because you didn't get any feedback as you were used to from like an audience, you know, from doing theater. Was that it? No.

No, none. Because it's just a very, you know, well-oiled machine, a crew that I've been doing it for literally decades. And, yeah, it was just very kind of, oh, well, I hope that's all right. I hope I get to work again, you know. And it was the first job I got. I was still at drama school, so I had to ask permission. I was only at Lambda for one year, but I had to ask permission to do the job. You're not supposed to work if you're still out of drama school.

Yeah. I don't know if that's changed. I hope it has in many ways. Now, you mentioned not being able to see yourself back. I ask actors this. do you watch yourself act and if so have you have you uh treated yourself to looking at your older work and do you see a big difference between how you used to act versus today and is that a is that a is that a do you do you applaud yourself for having gotten better different how so

smaller bigger do you do you do that do you watch you no no i'm not i'm not my own my own sort of crazy fan and i don't mean that in a sort of it's only vanity that does that it is that could be an incredibly useful thing to do but i'm not quite that for me it is yeah i'm not a precision tool in that way i i kind of um no i'm not going to compare myself to what i have done it's always about where i'm at at the moment and that the the the need to see some reflection of what what is going on is it registering and also to have that conversation with the director going and i think i think i know what you wanted and i was trying to do something else can we can we go again so i can try and give you something nearer what you want.

I've seen now that that's not quite, that doesn't quite fit it. And for the character and the movement and whatever it is, I mean, it's a really hard thing to generalise about. Yeah, yeah. I guess I've been stretched like gum in all sorts of directions as an actor. So I can't really be specific. Certain things, like I think Power of the Dog, I never, I don't think I ever watched a play back on that

because I just, I knew I was in and either it was shit or it was happening. and I just had to just be that guy anyway. So kind of going around as Phil Burbank going, can I see the playback, you know, being an asshole about it, I didn't really want to have that interaction with crew. And I wanted to have the arrogance of the character. Well, you strike me as somebody who's skilled enough, talented enough, and touch with yourself enough to really be able to direct yourself

to a certain extent and know whether it's good or bad. How much do you defer to a director? You mentioned, you know, well, I know what you want to. So let me do another one to see if I can do what you. Will you shape a performance for a director? Will you do what a director wants you to do? What is your opinion on that? Like, whose character is it?

I think I've been very, very lucky with the caliber of director. Well, thank you for what you just said, first of all. But I also think it is about how lucky I've been with the caliber of director. You know, I form trust with that person. And so therefore can filter my own, in a sense of whether I was shit or good, bad, bad, or indifferent. and match it to their honesty about it. And the best directors as well often give you a prompt that turns everything around 180 degrees.

And it's not that they've rejected what you've done or didn't like it. They just want to see something different. That's what excites me. It's just trying to jump through a different hoop in a way. Do you remember the first time as you were coming up after you kind of got your sea legs about you and acting your first gigs?

Do you remember the first time when you took a real, big swing and you're like oh god this is something i never imagined i could do and it scares the shit out of me i think a little bit on every every job but i i it's to one degree or another um really big that's a really good question shown you do take great swings and you you you never clank it you always hit the ball hard yeah he's really admirable like you always feel like you're in great hands as an audience member when when when you're watching oh thank you yeah truly that's a huge coming from you guys thank you no it's it's and whether it's drama or comedy it's it's pretty impressive thank you um well i i i i guess the the bottom line is there's no sort of secret source

to it i feel yeah i feel excited when i'm taking a big swing um when did i first feel that sense of oh i'm not sure i can do this oh well i i know is that well that that sorry no go well it was i was just going to say it was one of those reactions where i've got i've got the job and then i thought oh my god how am i going to do that yeah and that was that was playing stephen hawking in a television drama about his life right which sort of compared to eddies took it up to you know he was walking with a stick and that the speech was very impaired um still married to jane hawking so it was a very it was one slice of his life his extraordinary life and um yeah the thrill the elation of that and then going oh my god i've just convinced people that i can do this i don't think i can you know

I was immediately terrified after the 10 seconds of elation. So I guess that was the first moment where I thought, well, this is kind of a big swing. Yeah. But what was that first, what was that first, that first moment where you, so I totally get that and relate to that. But then the moment.

But I think, I think Sean's question was more about, you were talking about choices. I mean, within the performance. He was talking about choices, but when do you feel comfortable? When was that first time you felt? Forget Sean's question. He's, when was that first time that you felt,

that you felt comfortable in a performance where you, because you know there's that thing when you're a young actor and you go in and you're just, sometimes you're like, I don't want to fuck up, or you're just kind of, you're nervous and blah, blah, blah. And then what's that first moment where you felt like? Rather than going, oh, hell. Yeah, you hit a groove, you felt tight, you got it, you know. Do you remember that job?

No, I think that was what Sean was saying. Oh, I'm back in. You're back in? Oh, please, but I do. I do think that's what you meant. I think, I don't know, it's so hard, it's so hard to be specific about this sort of thing. Fuck, I don't know.

I'm always saying to acting students that I feel you can have, you can have something very theatrical in a close-up as much as you can have something very myopically focused and close-up on the stage. I think the magnification of a performance is really to do, if something is too big,

It means often it's wrong. It doesn't mean that the scale of it is, what am I trying to say? I don't know. Some big choices I made where I thought, I'm just doing this, and I think it's right. I mean, Patrick Melrose would probably be one because I've partied, but that guy was at other level. And I think the choices I made with him were pretty committed.

And I, you know, because I was in a very sober state doing, this crazy different levels of inebriated dance work I kind of just I just really committed to it and it's those things where you go I think this could you know I didn't I don't even remember thinking this could be silly I actually remember thinking it was quite fun yeah maybe I should try quailudes and I'm joking I just had a I had a commitment to it that meant it felt like I was on the ride but also thinking I hope this actually works I think we have that a lot

don't we when we're having a good time doing something as well going okay this feels great and everyone here is enjoying it and we're all but is anyone going to watch it or think the same or yeah people that aren't obligated to say hey great job yeah you're fully reliant on

on a biased audience and it's a little bit scary and I think to your point about directors you can come out of an experience and go oh should I really do need to trust my voice and my instincts a little bit more sometimes because I think I could have got that better. I have had moments watching things soon after their completion and gone, yeah, I should have dug my heels about that.

Yeah, yeah. The best take or the best choice of acting. Yeah, but you were not foolish to count on the taste of people like San Mandis or Thomas Alfredson. Like I said, some amazing directors. Yeah. We'll be right back. and now back to the show

speaking of tinker taylor soldier spy what about the fear of of acting with those incredible actors around you like was was was that nerve wracking mean you were obviously very very well established by the time you did that film but still you can't shake the little guy who was at lambda you know like you're sitting there with with these titans was that uh was that frightening yeah i mean uh yeah the first time i met um i mean mark i'd done a little thing with mark strong so i knew him Colin was just absurdly wonderful and lovely and nice and goofy and impressionable as well as being ridiculously smart and talented uh and devilishly handsome and all the rest of he is and then

gary when i first met gary he walked around the corner of it was either working titles office or it was somewhere uninspiring and it wasn't where I was expecting to meet him and I'd gone in for a costume fitting and there he was and he just got me and he just stopped in the corridor and he looked at me, looked me up and down and went oh hello

I went oh hello hi I and just was just sort of just a mess in front of him yeah he was very very cool he was very cool and I thought oh fucking hell

I felt this horrible ill comfort of I've got to please this guy I've got to somehow impress him and make sure he thinks he literally felt like he was sized me out going this is really the guy I want to spend my time with

is Peter Gillum I'm not sure really you know there was a very kind of like it took a little while and then and then I I realized he he was the he was the one who was terrified

he was terrified I think I can say this maybe his lawyers were right to me afterwards I don't know but he was frightened he really thought he wasn't capable of doing it he couldn't push this iconic Alec Guinness performance away he was worried that he hadn't found him

and you know it became the most amazing friendship out of that but you know yeah that that man was frightened and to have that vulnerability as an actor and to see that in someone as capable and extraordinary as him I was like, hooray, okay, we're all the same, really. We're all the fucking same. Yeah, but I mean, like, people feel that way about you.

I think, you know, your body of work is, it's unmatched. Like, I mean, Star Trek, imitation game, I can name them because I've seen them, and I love them. And Dr. Strange, in August O'Sage County and the fucking smog. And, I mean, you're fucking smog and the Hobbit. I mean, that's crazy to me, to me. You know, and on and on and on. And recently, you know, the roses, I thought it was just like that, that was a total minefield.

You could have blown yourself up, you and Olivia, at any moment in that. It was truly impressive. So people feel that way about you too, I think, where. Oh, for sure. Or you just want to just, you know, if you get a job with Benedict coverbatch. Well, we'll know that I'm shitting it. Know that I don't know what I'm doing on a first day. Know that I doubt myself.

You know, it's that thing, isn't it? And I don't know if you guys have it, but that first day on set where you go, you know, they're here's the crew, they were watching their actors, and directly you think, maybe they'll give me a second day, but these guys are just, they're going,

it's Roman right away. And of course it isn't, because the focus pull is shitting it. The fucking clapable, you know, everyone is doing their job for the first time as a unit, putting stuff on film. So it's saying, you have to remember that and get over your own...

We all have to figure out how to watch. wash ourselves, right, Sean? That's right. We're all human. But I do, I do want to, just having done a show there in London. In the back, too. Do you do the same for the back? Show me how you do.

Show me how you do, how do you wash your own smaller your back? Let me just see that. Do you need an extender for the lufa? Because we've got one. Scotty? Oh, wow. It's a selfie stick. How old are you?

You're so nimble. Flex. No, but in theater, in London, they have this. and the barbican they have this thing called cherish notes and i've never heard of this until i went over there and i'm like and i had to ask people in the cast i'm like what's cherish cherish notes well we meet every single day every day before the show on stage just check in with each other i'm like can't we do that just backstage in the hall or where the dressing rooms are yeah or just in the e that's what i said can we just do an email or like a fax or something

And, no, you have to go on stage. And every day we would go on stage, and the stage manager would be like, great, I don't have anything, does anybody have anything to? Like, no, why are we standing here? I like that. I like that. It keeps everybody accountable and reminds you of where you are.

Yes, I know, but, okay. What do you think about that, Benedict? I think it's quite lovely. I think it's quite nice. I think it's quite nice. As long as you're not spending too much time doing that. And as long as there's a moderator, I think what the dangerous thing is,

especially in theatre long run, like there's going to be those moments where something's going a bit strange in a scene or someone's, you know, and then the lines of communication can get very, very fuzzy unless you go through the appropriate channels, which is, you know, the assistant director

or the director and say, I'm having a bit of a problem with the scene, I'm not sure it's quite awake, whatever it is. If you go in there in the Cherish scenario and go to another actor, you know that bit where you're doing that bit. That means I can't do my bit the way I want to do it,

but that to me is like, oh, here we go but that's not what cherishing is cherishing sounds much nicer than that but I guess if it becomes it cherishing is just a positive feedback loop isn't it that's what that is and just looking after each other

but it was nice to see everybody but if somebody brings up something is there enough time? I mean everybody in your castes already they feel like fucking this guy just barely put up with it no I loved everybody there is there enough time to iron out whatever problem somebody might bring

well that's what that's what it was that's what it was I wasn't used to it here like in the States where you kind of it kind of interrupts what you've created for yourself your rhythm and your routine

in the States and so when I was like oh I have to stop that go up five flights of stairs or down five flights of stairs oh my God I know it's terrible these monsters this gets worse

five flights of stairs I mean and you can barely we know that you can't swim because you can barely catch your breath And then at the top of the stairs, you had to say something nice about it. Yeah, and I went down the stairs like this. It's just a tub of water and just get in it.

Let me watch you. Just dip in. Is it still hot? Just dip in it. Let me see. I want to talk about, well, Shawnee, do you want to get it into it? Sean, would you want to talk more about Dr. Strange or Star Trek because I'd love to get it in 1917 when you're done?

Yeah, no. I mean, look. Are you big into fantasy, Sean? Is that your fantasy? Yeah, I'm a huge sci-fi nerd and fantasy. Is he into fantasy? Is he into fantasy?

You should see what he's wearing for bottoms right now. He's a full lizard suit from the waist on. Yeah. So Sean loves... I love Star Trek and the movies. You love Marvel. You love Marvel. Yeah, I like Marvel.

Scotty loves Marvel. I like Marvel a lot. but I love Star Trek movies. I wasn't a huge fan of the television series like Scott. This guy's massive Star Trek fan. But seeing you on screen

as that character, that iconic character, and I don't know, you have this thing about you where you don't, you're so fucking commanding. Yeah, you're magnetic. Like, right, you don't have to do a lot

and you're just, you're electric right through the fucking screen. dressing. Do you want Sean, do you want Scottie to come ask a question? By the way, if Scotty comes on camera and he's covered in French as mustard up and around. Wait, let me see if he's got a question. With spock ears.

But also my massive, massive Lord of the Rings Hobbit fan, like huge. I've seen him a million times as movies and to see, right when you popped on today as a guest, I'm like, oh my God, that's so, it's such an icon, another iconic character that smog, the drag. that your voice is synonymous with this legendary thing.

And, Sean, I will say this, Benedict, before you, I've asked people who've done these kinds of things before. You've done a bunch of these different films, you know, sort of franchises, if you will, but they came out of very well-established, you know, sort of ideas that have a very well-established fan base. And there's a sense of, do you ever feel a sense of responsibility

to those legions of fans who existed before you kind of stepped into these roles? Yeah, huge. very big and then you have to forget about them you have to you have to make a commitment to something that can't please everyone so that's immediately if you pay the aggregate game you're dead in the water to anything original or alive or daring or that asks questions or is worth actually seeing the 78th or whatever I was version of Sherlock Holmes you have to just go

no it's going to be all right and that that it's it's not arrogance it's it's just you can't have that much head traffic you just have to focus on doing the job and so yeah it's a take on on something yeah i forgot i forgot about sherlock too which is fantastic i loved sherlock you were so great in sherlock i mean the list goes on and on this guy i mean you even 35 yet and the resume is stunning you know it's anyway with with we're already over time i've got one last question though because it's something to bring you back down to earth because you're so goddamn good at at what you're do what is the what is the one thing you'd love to be half as good at as you are as an actor is there

something surfing surfing oh wow really or speaking any foreign language so you try but you're not great uh exactly that i'm i'm i started in my 40s and i'm near the end of my 40s and i'm still feeling like i'm starting but it and i had a shot operation last year so i haven't done it at all for about actually know this year for about six months but i love it i love it's where did you start it Weirdly enough, in New Zealand, when we were doing Power of the Dog, we got shut down because of lockdown and we had the decision to make to stay, which by then, because I had two octogenarian parents, one of whom is a severe asthmatic staying with us, as it would happen,

my mum and dad and our three very young children at that point, Sophie and a nanny, and we just thought, okay, we're going to stay. And it was a bit scary to begin with, but utterly magical and extraordinary, one of the best places on earth to be, as it turned out. And there was a little left-hand break in Tiawunga in Hawks Bay. Big shout out to Tiawungans. Anyway, the point is it was where I learned. And I'm goofy, actually, so left break's not as good as a right.

But I quite like, no, that's wrong. It must have been a right break. Yeah, because I'm right foot forward. So you're supposed to be facing the wave around the facing the shore. So I learned really on the wrong wave, but loved it. Every now and again, you get a left. And I just, I really. fell in love with it i fell in love with the view of the coastline um i fell in love with that connection

to the ocean that sense of how present you are and the community as well this extraordinary group of people where all is kind of forgiven as long as you don't take their wave and you know the drug dealer would be there and the head of the local police force would be there you know it's just all of human life was around you right and i i can't i can't explain to anyone has itself what that feeling is of nature giving you a ride from somewhere out in the ocean towards the shoreline it's just magic when it works and when you get out of the ocean how do you clean yourself i'm kidding what happened what happened to your shoulder by the way you got shoulder surgery i i was so boring it's so so so 49 um yeah i'm 50 to say but it was 49 when it

happened i bet well it's a long time of ill-use and done a lot of surfing in very bad conditions and over doing it. I'm probably lifting stuff in the wrong way over the years. Not the particular, but I basically had a torn rotator cuff and then also a frozen shoulder on top of it, which only did the repair to the rotator, which was a complete tear.

And I'd lived with chronic pain for about a year and a half not really realising that you didn't have to. And I kept on doing physio and being told, no, it'll heal, just give it time. I'm a patient guy, and I'm doing everything you're telling me to do, and I'm still having sleepless nights, getting out

like three, four times in the night because I'd rolled over onto it and it's suddenly just... Right, but it's better now? It's, yeah, it's great. It's great. Oh, great. I love that. Oh, look at that. Well, before we let you go, we need to know about the thing with feathers

because this is this new project, you guys. If I hadn't said anything about that film, I was so sorry. It's not how to clean yourself. It's very much not the thing with feathers. I mean, I suppose you could use that to clean yourself. It's a prequel to how do you clean yourself. Yeah, so this, this, I... It's called a duster.

I've only seen the trailer, which is, is, looks magical to say the least. What is it called? The thing with feathers. Okay. It's, it's, I'm not going to ask you to describe because I think that's, that's always frustrating. But it seems like there's, there's, there's, you're dealing with loss, but you're dealing with it in a very, uh, magical, fantastical way. and it looks like the filmmaking is exquisite and your performance looks mind-blowing again was it something that you love doing?

Very much and it's something that I'm very proud of. I produced it as well so it's one of those projects that wouldn't really have got off the ground well I would have probably got off the ground but it took a lot of efforts and it was 10 years in the making we only came on board in the last sort of of year and a bit of it.

We being the production company, Sunny March, Adam Acklin, Leah Clark and myself. And it was an approach for me to act as this dad, this man who, because you were so kind in telling me it could be a real bore to describe it. I'm going to describe it very, very briefly. But it's a man who suffers a very sudden bereavement and he loses his wife and has to bring up his two children

as a widow, and it's about their first year as a family. And it's based on an amazing, amazing novella called Grief is the Thing with Feathers. Oh wow. Which is a misquote of the famous Emily Dickinson line, Love is the Thing with Feathers. By Max Porter,

who is just a titan of a heroic human being in actual physical stature and in talent. He's a wonderfully kind, brilliant mind and he's created a space where male grief is examined in the most unimaginably

crazy and imaginative way. It's about dealing with it as an acceptance as something you live with and it comes alive in the form of the dad's work which from the book

maybe the film but certainly the book more or less is hinted at as being a memory of the boys of what that time was like and you kind of learn that as the story unfolds

but it's a crow it's a crow that comes fully to life as this horrific entity that's both Mary Poppins to the children and Amenuensis a hero

an absolute nightmare a ferocious noise in the head a tormentor and an ally against despair and it's a huge homage to the literature it was born out of the poetry of Ted Hughes in our version he was an academic at the book in our version he's an illustrator and his illustration comes to life basically

and lives torments and is accepted by this family grieving the loss of their mother and wife wow wow wow I can't wait to check it that's a punchy hour and 40 minutes and it's yeah i don't know i just what i was taken with with the trailer is you know you all can can see there's it seems to be done in such a sophisticated cinematic tasteful way like you know that you that can go wrong real quick if you go oh so there's going to be a crow that he's got to talk to that's like how does that look and how is it framed what's like you know it's

just looks so tasteful and and special. So, congratulations. Well, thank you. I mean, that's mainly down to Dylan Southern, who adapted the book and directed it. He's a pop documentarian by trade, as in that's what he's done up until this point.

This is first fictional narrative drama. Good for you for getting behind him. Well, yeah, I mean, that's one of the things we do at Sunday, much. We want to promote and platform voices that are coming out of the stocks, who are the first, and very often female-led talent, but also, in this case, someone who hasn't originated their work in this medium,

and he's spectacular. He's a real sinuous. He's a real cultural nurse. So the references are thick and fast. There's Kubrick, there's Spielberg, there's Hitchcock. There's all sorts of, but of Jane Campion in there weirdly. But it is just, it's a rich tapestry of imagination and minds coming undone reflected through a cinematic idea of how that would happen in the culture of these people.

So it's the father's imagination and that North London 40-something maleness which I know very well that's set in South Island but big deal not much difference and it's just it's it's it was it was a crazy ride to go on very short shoots after 10 years of of creating it and getting it made so I'm really proud of it before we let you go I have to ask you about something that I think that you have been

attached to to either be in or to produce or to do something with for a long time and it's one of my favorite books of all time it's an absolute mindblower for those who haven't written which is you know what I'm about to say rogue mail rogue mail oh dude it's a winner isn't that it's so cool it is such a game changer of a novel

rogue mail written in 1939 yeah it's it's the original fugitive novel it's the original and you know a huge inspiration for Ian Fleming for Bond and yeah and it's and it's so prescient to what's going on in our times, not to allude to that too much. It's so pressing, exactly, and it really is.

You know, when we first sat down trying to talk about this, is this a bit of a game, it's not about AI, I know, but is this a bit of a kind of guy's film, and then the longer we were exploring the themes of it and the motivation behind the guy's actions and the outcome and how he's turned on by his own side as well as obviously the side he's tried to take down, it's fascinating how it plays into a political spectrum

of what's going on in the world. now i don't want to say too much about it because people should read the book and yeah we will make it you will make it huh definitely oh yeah we don't we don't got a filming date yet but it's it's something we're trying to slate for next year although there are other huge commitments involving cloaks floating about so yeah i'll be the first guy to watch it i'll be the first one there it's just what that is i can't wait uh me too yeah i know it's nice to get going on that that's good um well we uh we owe you uh 12 minutes now in back into your life uh we just I think I owe you a lot more because I was very late on, so you, I mean, nothing.

No, no, no, I'm very glad to be. Such a pleasure, honor to have you on the show, Benedict. Thank you. Likewise, guys. Really cool to meet you. I'm really good to meet you all too. Thank you. I hope to bump into you again soon one day.

Continued success, Benedict. You too, you too. Well, sorry, I've got to say, Will, before we sign off, you were phenomenal in this thing on. Oh, is it fucking great. I asked Bradley, because I've missed to give me a link because searchlight wouldn't. Oh, it's not really ready for a link yet. And I went, fucking Bradley, I missed a screening of it in London.

I can see it. You are so good. It's so tender and real. And that camera is so... I wanted to ask you about how you deal with... It's so close to you all the time when you're up at that mic. Like, was he shooting on a long lens at any point? Or was it really on stage with you getting in your eye line?

I mean, it was... And yet you're utterly in it all the time. And it's so moving. It was all in a 40. The whole thing was shot... Everything was shot under 40, the entire film. Yeah. On one single lens.

And he was, yeah, Bradley was right there. you know right up next to me it was very intense but thank you very much it's so impressive yeah yeah it's pretty work it's brilliant work anyway i just wanted to throw that in it's a really good um all right will you enjoy the rest of your night um and um and thank you again for doing this pal by benedette cumberbatch thank you jason thank you will thank you shorn see you bad take care bye bye bye bye there he goes benedict cumberbatch i didn't i didn't get to so much that went by Oh, my God, there's...

How could you? He's got a million credits. I know, right? Yeah, that was really cool. I mean, are you guys a Lord of the Rings Hobbit fan? No? I've not seen those. I enjoyed it.

Yeah, I loved those movies. So, yeah. He was the voice. There were some motion capture questions I have here, but I didn't get to them. Yeah, but you could tell... Because he was just a voice of a dragon, I hear from your question, yeah? That is correct. But also, you can tell...

from talking to him he's this sounds really corny to say but you could tell he's such a massive team player you can say you can tell he's not you know he's a very giving person he's a very loving down to earth you can smell his team spirit yeah yeah nice smells like teen teen spirit oh i see yeah um no he's uh he's uh he's pretty it's pretty cool how he's uh dances between the comedy the drama the big the big the big big Marvel stuff and also like things like this thing coming out. I know, like intense, like little sort of really cool niche films and then these massive box office hits. Are you with them?

Are you with them? They're now and you can just jump in with them. The listener, Will's building on the clean yourself. Jump in there with them and then you guys together. You can clean each other. More easily reach the back. You just do that. Start there.

Is it a button or a zipper I asked before? Oh, my God. But, Hey, Will, was I with you on a plane when we ran into Benedict Cumberbatch? Oh, really? Was I with you on a plane or was somebody else? Anyway, I ran into him on a plane once

and he was so fucking funny. I didn't run into him a plane, I don't think, but I ran into him once. I didn't remember. So I didn't say how to him, he was at the Greenwich and he was trying to repack a suitcase in the lobby. Oh, no. And I was like, you know what I'm going to do?

I'm going to leave him alone. You know, that's a way. I hate looking inside somebody's suitcase. You ever notice that? Why? I feel like there's stuff in there I don't need to see, don't want to see, especially, not the suitcase on the way to the destination.

It's the one coming back where all the dirty underwear is up on top and it's folded and it's all just like, you just know if you got your face in there, You're so crazy. You're so crazy about just regular life. You're so fucking insane. By the one big luxury, the thing, the one big luxury that I love, that I really love treating myself to, is doing hotel laundry.

Oh, you just throw it, you give it, and you put it in the bag, and let them take it. People are like, oh, I'm not going to do a hotel laundry. You're going to be $4 for my socks. I'm like, yeah, you know what? I'm going to treat myself. So you do that laundry before you leave the hotel so that when you get home and you unpack, it's already done? Yeah, depending.

I mean, the last few, there might be a few items, but I'm not going to, like, just deprive myself, you know what I mean? So you don't go home with all your dirty laundry like the rest of us, plebs, and throw it in the machine? I'll often do, the bulk of my stuff will be clean, yeah. Yeah. I'm not jackassing a bunch of dirty clothes across the globe. Why would you?

Yeah, when you got all that money to burn, right? Yeah. Like an extra 12 bucks. Oh, is it? For a T-shirt? Nice. But listen, all those. Here he comes.

Did I meet Benedict Cumberbatch on an aeroplane, like a jet plane, or was it a biplane? I'm going to be a biplane, but we'll allow it, bye. Smartless. Smartless. Smartless is 100% organic and artisanly. Handcrafted by Rob Armjarf, Bennett Barbico, and Michael Grant Terry. Smartless.