SmartLess - "Bono"

Episode Date: January 23, 2023

We needed a lead vocalist, so we got Bono. Come join us for breaking-news, the similarities between Ireland and Jamaica, the difference between EQ and IQ, and, um… World of Warcraft. Tune your dials, folks— it’s SmartLess.Please support us by supporting our sponsors.This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/SMARTLESS and get on your way to being your best self.Disclaimer: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, OH, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN)See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

It's been a minute, it's been a minute since we've been able to kind of wrap just us without the other guys and it's really important to me for you guys to know how important you guys are to me because the success of SmartList has all just been because of you, the listener. So I'm always just looking to put you guys first, oh my god, I really gotta take this you guys. Hello? I have not renewed my warranty, why? Welcome to SmartList. The only time this guy's on first is when it's his guest, otherwise you're late, you're chewing. I did a lot of chewing before I just finished. Do you have respect for this guest? I do have respect for this guest, yeah, a lot. Really? Yes, on a lot of levels. Well, we'll see.

Yes. Hi, Sean clearly does not have respect for this guest. Hi Sean. Hi Will, how are you? I'm good, are you having some sugar and milk? I am actually. What are you having with it? Just a little bit of drop of tea. I sent Jason this thing. By the way, you haven't had your father-in-law, Paul Anko on the show yet. It's embarrassing. Well, I was thinking about that. I was at dinner with him last night and then I thought maybe one of you guys, I feel like Michael Granteri, our incredible producer, is working on that and that it's a scheduling thing. I feel like we have officially gone out to him. Yeah, I feel like it's so good to watch him wriggle. It's amazing. I feel like we've gone out to him when you had dinner with him last night.

I know, you could have just said, hey, I feel like it's a schedule. He was very excited to hear that you're a Canadian. I'm surprised you didn't know that already. Yeah, me neither. I sent you and your wife a nice email about him and about the inspiration for his song, Diana, which was a huge hit, which you wrote when he was like 16. 16? Is this the guest? No, no, no, it's Paul Anko. Paul went down to New York and recorded all these tunes, these huge hits. You know, he wrote My Way amongst other great things in that song. Diana, he was 16 years old. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. And he wrote about this woman who she just recently passed away and she claimed that it dogged her for her whole life. I'm like, yeah, it's pretty cool to have Paul Anko write a song.

It is. You know when I was 16 years old? I was going to ask you. I was going to get through this. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. Go ahead, Sean. I was in shoplifting skittles. No, I did shoplift something when I was, I took, I stole a turkey sandwich when I was in college and got arrested for it. Jesus. But anyway, in, when I was 16, I was in my room and I listened to Wham and I listened to like Wham Rap and I would try, I memorized all the lyrics. Shocker. I mean, I mean, Sean, this is- And I'm in my room like acting like I'm in Wham and I learned all the words and my mom completely walked in on me and caught me, you know, and then you cover like, oh no, I was just cleaning my room like it was so embarrassing. And she saw you because she was, she came in on the right side.

She had her head till turn to the right. The door cracked open just one eye looked at. And you were doing Wham because you hadn't learned Frankie goes to Hollywood lyrics yet? Or what's going on? You just wanted to go through all the different. George, George, Michael and Andrew Richfield. Rich Lee. Rich Lee. Rich Lee. Rich Lee. Yeah. Rich Lee. It was kind of like, it was kind of like- Look how mad Sean get when he said, Rich Lee. God, I hope that's a surprise guest today. Andrew Rich. Guys, you have Andrew Rich Lee on. Jason wanted me to tell you about my nerve thing, but maybe I'll do that in the next show. I wanted to tell you, you wanted to tell me what? You wanted me to tell Will about my neck procedure. I did. Oh yeah. I definitely want to

hear about that. Let me carve out some time. I can hear about your neck issues. Speaking of time, Did I say that at the party the other night? No, you said it like you should two weeks ago. Speaking of time, we don't have a ton of time because we've already started late. Okay, yeah. I was late, sorry. And Jason was right. I was a little, I'm a little bit, I'm very excited about our guests. You know, as you think about an intro and how you introduce somebody, you think about what they've done. And I thought about this for a long time and where you start because, you know, we often have guests on who wear a lot of different hats. And, but they start somewhere, but then they do other things and they're sometimes it's a hobby,

but sometimes it's, you know, something that they might be good at. Our guest today is someone who has started almost in concert their art and their, their art was informed by what they saw in the world around them. And it drove their art to incredible heights. But in that time, there was always this message about what was going on in the world around him. And he along with his three bandmates created a band together when they were very young. That was again, just always a reflection of what they saw and what they felt in the world. And then they didn't just do that and just let it be part of their art. It's almost like their activism became part of their art. And they didn't just lend their name or write a check and

wave and say, I gave, they went and got in the trenches. This person has been around the world, whether it's fighting poverty and fighting hunger. This person, I think maybe no single soul human has ever done more to raise awareness and, and money and, and serve as an agency for change in the fight against AIDS. And all of that sort of in a lot of ways kind of it almost overwhelms what a great artist he is. This person is, it's so hard. I can't even, I'm just, I'm just bubbling to get it out because he'll tell you everything. He's got a new book out that just came out called Surrender. Guys, it's Bono. Oh, yeah. It's Elton John, actually. Bob Gelluff, you know, Sean Penn, Julie Roberts. Wow. Oh my God. What an honor to have you join us.

My goodness. I have been such a huge fan of yours for so, so long. This is crazy. So long. Do you know just like three weeks ago or four weeks ago, I had dinner with, and forgive me, I don't know if I say the edge or just edge. That will do. Okay. That's just the, just the, uh-huh. And he was, I was picking his, I can't believe I'm, by the way, it's such an honor to meet you. A huge fan. I mean, Joshua Tree was like a huge part of my life in high school. It was just massive. And anyway, I was talking to the about that and at dinner and he was singing your praises as of course you would expect, but he was explaining how the, how different you both are. And that's what makes part of the whole band work is that you're, you know, he doesn't like the spotlight.

He likes to be in the back. He likes to play like, he almost doesn't like to be even seen. And I thought it was fascinating. And he also said that what, sorry, I'm almost done. This is one of those moments I wish Sean was at a loss for words, but he's not. Okay, go ahead. He also said, I said, Joshua Tree was such a huge part of my life in high school. Tell me about how that happened. And he said, you know, during the time of Madonna and Michael Jackson and George Michael and all these kinds of amazing people in their own right, you guys came along with this kind of out of left field, this band that was just the timing was perfect for you guys. And that's also what helped make that album so huge. It was, it was just another, the,

the option that wasn't out there. Huh. At the end of all that, not even a question mark. No. Well, I think what you're saying, Sean, and by the way, there's an altar for you in Dingle in Southern Ireland, just so you know, yeah, yeah, there's an altar there. Yeah, we brought a bit of black and white to these very, these people are very colorful and very vivid. And we arrived in Anton Corbin photography, very, very black and white facts. So black and white that our manager, Paul McGinnis used to say, now don't look like the band too stupid to enjoy being at number one now, will you? But yeah, the decade taste forgot was very good to us.

And I'm very, very grateful. And Edge is indeed a kind of anti guitar hero, which is, you know, he, I mean, he's like the most extraordinary person for getting guitar player, genius, probably the most influential guitar player the last 30 years. The only one who won't tell you is him. And yeah, it's good to get time with him there, Sean. I always treasure it when I get time with him. And he only lives 100 years from where I'm sitting right now. In fact, he called me just before I came on. He was singing your praises as, of course. So, Bono, about that sort of opposites, and I'm sure that's an exaggeration, but clearly there are some different lanes that each one of you four occupy in the, in the band slash family.

And Jason loves lanes. You love lanes. I love a lane. I love a bucket. No, I don't actually don't do buckets. Buckets is overdone today or silos. But talk to us about how you guys manage those dynamics where everyone kind of has their lane, but then there's good overlap sometimes when you guys need to collaborate. Is it something that you guys keep an eye on so that the harmony literally and figuratively stays intact? Yeah. Well, I mean, look, I, from the podcast, I have overheard, plugged into, enjoyed, you're obviously a band, too. It's a power trio. Isn't that your things like cream or the police or nirvana? Don't be rush. But progressive rock is actually one of the only things myself and edge fall out over. But yeah, being in a band, it's, it's,

it's tricky. And, and the older you get, you know, it gets even trickier because when you grow up together, you're used to taking bits out of each other, you know, and it's, because people know where you've come from, you know, they know, they know your memories. I think that's the best definition I heard of really knowing someone is you know their memories, you know how they got them. And so they will remind you, the band will remind you of how far away from yourself you've gotten. And at a certain point, people don't want to be reminded of that, you know, and I'm always amazed that we're still together because, you know, it is, it's rough. I mean, you're as good as the arguments you get. But at a certain point when people are doing well, the male loves to be the

Lord of his own domain, you know, and you can just imagine why people say, ah, fuck this, I'm out of here. I mean, I'm really genuinely expected. And the band breaks up all the time. It's the truth. We just don't announce it. And then we get back together. You just never fall. You can't be very grateful. We do. You can't be fucked to follow through on it. Well, you know what? It's funny you say that, Bono, because I, so your book, I mentioned that your book has come out and you've been on tour supporting it. You, you've done, you did a date and, and now you're announcing that you're going to go on tour and do some more dates, which is so excellent. And so I read parts of your book

all the way through. And actually I, I heard that somebody told me that that's kind of how you want people to do it, kind of dipping it out. So I 40 short stories. It works. I've constructed it as 40 short stories as well as the sort of beginning middle and end arc. Yeah. And so the chapter, and there's pictures as well, special pictures, you know, little drawings for you. Well, they're drawings that made it much easier. That would be a, it was a pop-up book. I just stared at them. These guys, I have to explain what a book is to them, but you should know. So Bono, but you, you talk about you guys breaking up. So you start, you guys get to know each other when you're very young,

you meet through mutual friends, you're very, and, and, and not, not only do you guys know about each other, this is what I was getting to, but the world knows as, as what you guys have grown up together and you've grown up in a world and the world has watched you guys grow up together. And it's funny, you mentioned a few times in the book, the home in which you grew up, 10 Cedarwood Road. And I got to the point, I'm almost embarrassed to say that I, I googled it on Google Maps because I wanted to look and I wanted to kind of get a feel of it as, as I was reading it, you know, your descriptions of jumping around in the living room, listening to the Ramones and your dad coming home and you being there with Ali and all these various sort of anecdotes you

had that really were such a window into your life and all these different stages. And as I put it in Google, it says Bonovox childhood house. And I thought fucking Google knows that that's where you grew up. The world knows, the world knows a lot of your memories. But just on the outside, and now you're sharing all of this stuff from the inside. How, how is the experience of writing this book and kind of bearing it all in a way? It's called surrender. So did it feel like that? I'm still, that's still a word I'm ganging up on having to fully grasp or fathom the title of my own book. But I, yeah, you know, I really, I decided to go there and it's, you know, go all the way. It's not a confessional, but it is kind of anatomical. And if you want to

see the band in a rehearsal room or in the studio or the sort of the struggles around it with each other and with the world around us, I'm going to write about it in a still cross section, same as an activist, the same in other areas of my life, my family life. I just decided to go there. And then I said, I'll afterwards decide if I publish it. And then I would get caught in it. And I find myself the real value of writing a book like this is you sort of retrieve memories from the kind of river, from you drudge them, some out of the sewer, but you know, you find them. And, and that's beautiful, even the one about my father coming home. And I just brought Ali Stewart. I just brought her home. And I was showing her my little box room. And I swear I wasn't in bed

with her. I was on the bed with her. And it was the one time my father came home in the middle of the day, it was Wednesday. And he's like, are you in there? What are you doing home? I said, it's a half day. And he goes, what? I said, what are you doing home? I can do what I like. And then he I heard him coming up the stairs. And I'm like, Ali, what are we going to do? And she's looking at me. I say panic. She said, I'm not going to panic. I said, get under the bed. And she's like, what? I've nothing to be ashamed. Get under the bed. So she gets under the bed. And the dark comes and he goes, you know, um, are you okay? And I'm like, don't be that this is not going to be the day that he asks me how I am doing existentially. And, and then he comes in and he sits on the bed. Oh, God. So

Ali has two usans on top of her. And she's going to stay that way for quite some time. But if I hadn't written the book, I wouldn't have remembered that. I wouldn't be talking to you about it now and the stuff with my mother, you know, because I lost my mother in an early age. I just I found all these, I found her. And, and then with the show that you mentioned, you know, the half man show, we call it in the band. It's not even a one man show. And I'm, I'm finding that I'm spending time with my father, my mother, because I kind of become my father as part of the show. And I'm starting to, I mean, I always loved him, but I'm starting to like him, which is mad. As I become him in the show, I, I take his voice and I, and I'm, he made me laugh. He's made me laugh a lot.

So the book has given me a lot, I will say that. So thank you. You talk about it in the book again about your relationship with your dad in, in about that moment when you're in the chapel and as, and you, and you, you have this really kind of after he's died, I found that to be really something that's the ability to sort of, I don't know if you, I don't know if you said you apologize, but you had a kind of almost a conversation with your dad. Yeah. Yeah, it was a kind of, it was an apology. It was a very combative relationship, not without humor, but combative. And I sort of, I was born with my fists up. So that's why you understand this word surrender is not, does not come natural to me. And yeah, and I, I, I, I, after a while, I did realize that maybe I had,

I wasn't there for him when he was going through so much. He'd lost my mother. There was three Irish males kind of screaming at each other in the house. And one of them is very precocious and, you know, annoying one. That would be me. And, and I would, you know, I was probably torturing him. And, and I, after he passed away, I did have a moment where I went up and I, I, I like going to church is actually better when there's no service on a moment. And especially in the language, I don't understand. Because then I get to feel the things without having to parse them, you know, intellectually. And I was just as an empty chapel. And yeah, I, I apologize to my father. And my theology doesn't allow me the belief that he was listening, but I was listening to myself.

And there's a romantic part of me does believe he was listening. And, and something did change in me. And I, yeah, I think my voice changed. I walked different after you confess things. People, you know, they say this coming out of the confession box. That's for Irish Catholics. But, you know, the Jews have your therapists. We have the priests. But people emerge from these sessions different, walk different. They, you know, so much lighter. And, and yeah, my, my voice changed a bit around that time. And my father was a tenor. Jason, anything you want to get off your chest right now, go ahead. Bono's here. And all their Bono is here. Yeah. Well, but I talk a little bit more about, about that, about that, that process of going

through the memories and then writing those down in a, in a, in a literal, accurate sense. In comparison to the way I would imagine you've been doing it for years and years as a songwriter, talking about yourself, your feelings, your thoughts on things, your, your, your perspective on the world in much more of a metaphorical way, in a poetic way, in a rhyming way. Did you, did you find yourself going through the same themes and issues and, and getting more from it in that sort of catharsis exercise by writing in literal terms as opposed to metaphor? That's very actorly of you. And I appreciate that question. Catharsis is exactly right word. But it's very different, you know, writing a book, my own book, what I wrote myself, you know, it's different

to writing songs with songs. I tend to find sort of landscapes, emotional landscapes, feelings. I want to, I want to kind of enter into it. They're very abstract, oblique, often. And then I'll find a concrete situation, as you referred to Will in your very kind introduction, you know, I will use a real life situation. But songwriting, for me, is primarily investigation inquiry into the emotions around an issue. Here with the book, and remember, it's really far-fetched already to write, you know, it's sort of beyond navelgazing. You know, why would you foist your memoir, I call it a memoir, when it should really be a we-moire, because I mean, I mean, loads of bands, actually. But there was, there is, I think, okay to share these thoughts, because they might

be useful to other people. And at the very least, they might explain what I've been doing with my life to my family and friends, you know. But it was different. You know, I love that you said, you apologized to your father, because my father just apologized to me about leaving early and leaving us with not, he didn't, he didn't apologize. No, I was going to say, wait, what? But I did, but Bono, I did one of those ancestry shows where they trace your ancestry, and all of my relatives are from Dingle and County Kerry. And we, my grandfather, my dad's I, my grandfather, my great-grandfather, my great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather, they have all this information. And every single one of them, I'm not exaggerating,

every single one of them arrested for drunken behavior, beating people up. I visited the jail where they all went. It was an insane, insane ancestry of craziness. Sean, I'm here to, I'm here to absolve you of that guilt, because those were days where the British were responsible for incarceration. And they were, we call those people rebels, okay? Okay. And that's why they were being put away. And, and yes, these are, these are slurs on their reputation. And have you asked yourself the question, Sean, just why do my relatives speak in a Jamaican accent? Or the other way around, have you ever gone, gosh, Bob Marley sounds a lot like he's from Dingle, like my grandparents. One, two, three, the whole thing gonna be all right.

Right. Oh, yeah. Because, yeah, that very sing song can be, I can explain it if you want, but you don't have to. I mean, this is... Well, wait, no, no, I do want you to explain it because you do very famously, I've watched it a dozen times over the years, your introduction of Bob Marley into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. And it's, oh, many times, man, I love it. It's one of the great speeches. I always find speeches like that to be my favorite kind of like induction speeches, things like that, when people really think about it. I don't know, there's something about it that kind of, and, and that is one of the great ones. And you talk about the similarities. Why is an Irishman inducting a Jamaican? And what are the similarities? And the audience kind of laughs,

he says, bear with me. Yeah. But then you, and one of the things you talk about, the British, you're like, yeah, everything, all clear now. The green, the herb, you mentioned that a bunch of times. And you talk about when the jackboots of colonialism retreat, what it means to, not just to get up, but to stay standing up. There's so many great themes. Oh, that's great. It kept it in the, in the Bob Marley Museum in Kingston. And he's from Irish town, of course. And, and it turns out there were some indentured people, forcefully taken to Irish people, taken to the Caribbean. It's not the same thing as slavery is, or anything like it, but it was rough. And there were, at the time of James I and Cromwell,

up to, I think, I mean, it's disputed, but 3000 to 40,000 from Dingle and from Kerry, honestly, I'm not joking this. I'm not smoking duet at this point. And it is, you know, it's interesting. But I think we are spiritually also quite close to that, that kind of the Bob Marley way of the world where he could sing of his faith, for example, when you two dropped our second album, and we missed the bit about singing songs about girls before we got on to God, like Van Morrison. And we started off, like, with God. And our manager was going, this is not going to go well. And Chris Blackwell, who, you know, discovered Bob Marley and founded Island Records that we were assigned to, he was like, Oh, no, you know, no, this is, this is all part of it,

you know, the whole world. And, and, and, and sort of Irish people and Jamaicans, I think, we're in, I like to think at our best, we're, we have this kind of, we work body, spirit, and so that's quite a pretentious thing for your smart list podcast. But I believe our listeners are nothing but if not pretentious. And we will be right back. Smart list is sponsored by better help. You know, I feel best about myself when I feel loved, but the only way to feel loved really is if you love yourself. So how do you get to love yourself and not feel like, you know, this feels gross, like it feels like selfish, it feels like icky, like love yourself. That's those dumb cliches and weird. Well, it's all about like self care. And

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with promo code smartless. Make every moment more with FanDuel official sportsbook partner of the NFL. 21 plus exclusions apply. See show notes for full disclaimer. And now back to the show. Bono, I wanted to ask you about speaking great concerts. One of the all time great live records with you guys at Red Rocks, you two. And there's that great beginning of a Sunday Bloody Sunday. When you start and you say, there's been a lot of talk about this next song, maybe, maybe too much talk. This song is not a rebel song. By the way, I'm not reading it. I've got to memorize since it came out. This song is Sunday Bloody Sunday. The number of times I've uttered those words and not known what they meant and didn't know what they

meant at the time when you said them. And it was almost impromptu or was impromptu. If you could maybe tell us a little bit about that introduction to Sunday Bloody Sunday was this with these old hangovers on us, you know, after a Saturday night. I, this song is a very powerful song. I think of it strangely as like a Marley song. Always think about it a little bit like that. And while Edge was working on it in Dublin, I was working on it in Jamaica funnily enough on my honeymoon having to try and explain to my missus why our honeymoon album is going to be called War. But yeah, it's a powerful song. And, but it, it kind of got us into some trouble and where people thought we were taking sides in, you know, in a country which was almost

at civil war on sectarian lines. And, you know, there's only, we say this, there's one and a half Catholics in YouTube. So you've got Larry, Mullen, and I consider myself, because my father was Catholic, half Catholic, but I was raised in the Church of Ireland. And then you have the two Brits in the band, Adam and Edge. So they came in from the UK. So we were like a social experiment you two at the time. And, and we didn't want to get caught up in this Sunday by Sunday rah, rah, rah, let's raise some money for the paramilitaries to go and hurt people and, and worse, you know, you know, extinguish lives with these guns that were bought. And, you know, in all across America, people, you know, were tin-copping and looking for money for the freedom fighters. And it wasn't

as simple as freedom fighting. And my father was a Catholic, but he was very suspicious of nationalism. And he used to say, he had this great line, he quote the playwright sing, he'd say, what is Ireland? But the land that keeps my feet from getting wet. And I'd like, that's a great quote. When I was writing a book, I discovered he made it up. Sing never said that. And it's a great quote, because it's just saying, just be careful about boundaries. And, you know, countries are just stories you tell yourself. And you want to be very careful about going to war with your next door neighbor. And so I used to introduce it. And it's, I'm sure it's, it's, it's annoying sound I make when I'm saying that, because I've, I suffered from a telephone voice on stage. Like, really,

I don't know, I, it's a funny sound. It doesn't sound like me. Edge and I went to see a film called Killing Bono. He was going to enjoy it a little more than me. And the actor played, I said, he doesn't sound like me though, does he, Edge? And he said, no, he does. He sounds like the way you speak on stage or on the telly. And he's been doing his research on Google. That's a very good Bono, but it's your telephone voice Bono. And so when I hear, there's been a lot of talk about this song, I like, cool, you just, just turn it down a little bit. But, but that's me in the 80s. And, you know, I still feel as strong about it. I'm just, you know, I just, I hate to break it to you, man, but it's, it's iconic. So I'm, I'm sorry. I apologize for the world.

Wait, sidebar. Are you sitting on the floor? Yeah, he is. Yeah, man. Keeps it real down there. All right. Cause there's a couch. Thanks. Yeah. We sit on the floor. We eat our children. Sean, don't start a cute, you've got a TV behind you that you've never turned on. So, by the way, that is so true. He puts on the yule log on that thing. Hey, Bono, talk to, talk to us about your, you know, your music is always so passionate and authentic. Always feels like you're, you're writing and you're singing from the heart. And that takes, that takes a lot of, a lot of passion to be that, that genuine. Have you found that the older you've gotten, the smarter you've gotten, the more spiritual intelligence,

um, informational intelligence, um, emotional intelligence, that the passion for things that don't make sense for you, like maybe when you were younger, that now do make sense for you, does the passion go, go down and make it harder to write and sing more passionately because you simply have more things figured out and that you're just, or you're easier with things or you're not pushing back against things. You're letting, you know, I just find that as I get older, I'm just like, uh, I'm not going to sweat the small shit as much anymore. And it's just sort of a maturation. By the way, for Jason, like passion and soul, it's all like a math equation. Go ahead, Bono. I'm not sure, I'm not sure my IQ is high enough to actually understand that question.

But I, my EQ can figure it out. Um, uh, you know, yeah, I was, it's, oh my God, I think it was Seinfeld who said, you know, he's no, when he got to six, he had no problem, you know, just turning people down. He goes, nah, can't do that. Yeah. And he said, when he gets to 70, he just won't reply. And I have, yeah, I've, I've, I'm, who's the guy in the villain on James Bond? Dr. No. I'm Dr. Yes. And I try to solve problems for people I shouldn't be necessarily in my activism. I do tend to help God across the road, like she's a little old lady. Come on, God. I know exactly what's to do here. Um, I, I am actually part of the process of writing the book is just actually just trying to be in the moment. I'm in more and, and just, and, and listening.

I'm really, does this Franciscan friar called Richard Rohr, who I just, he's just a genius. He's just a, he's amazing. And, uh, I read him, he's got a place called the center of action and contemplation out there in Albuquerque, the center of the action. And I like that order. Um, but I might need to reverse it for the, you know, I might need to do some more contemplating before I act. And, and I'm getting to that. Yeah. You can't, you, how many more blows have you got and to throw and this sort of pushing shoulder against the door. I mean, I was used to it, you know, politically, whether it was, you know, people who didn't want to see me or didn't want to meet the activists that I represent fighting for universal access to, to AIDS drugs or whatever,

I would, I'd be ready to put my shoulders to the door, break it down, you know, but now I'm sort of thinking, maybe, maybe there's a key in the lock. Maybe, maybe just turn it and, you know, stop fighting. I think Sean, by the way, didn't in college you say that there were a lot of blows in the center for action, which is what you guys called behind the, behind the soda machine. Yeah. Sorry. Williams? Does your father call you William? Yeah, he does. My mother called me William. Be quiet. But I do want to, you know, one of the things, Bono, before I read your book or read parts of your book and read all this stuff about what you've been doing. And I had seen years ago, I don't know if you're aware of it, but frontline did a two-part piece, a documentary

series on the age of AIDS. And I thought at the time, I remember thinking like, we've all read everything about AIDS. I mean, how much more can there be? And it was absolutely illuminating. It's like 2006, I think. And a big part of it was they focused a lot on what you did in terms of not just raising money. And this always struck me. And I've talked about it a lot over the years to various people. Anybody will listen. At a time when, especially this country needed to really step up and help combat AIDS in Africa, you came over here and you reached across lines, and you ended up in a meeting with, I know you first met with Paul O'Neill, and then you went over to Africa and did amazing things and illuminated him. He was then secretary of the

Treasury. But then you also, you reached across and you appealed to Jesse Helms. And in effect, you said, you're a Christian. I'm a Christian. And I know that you've publicly stated that you, that, you know, that AIDS is a result of an immoral or life or whatever it was that he said. And you said, but we have an obligation because this is what God would do. And you spoke to him and your faith really drove you in that. And you got him to completely change his position. And that led to the biggest ever amount of money and really just sparked the U.S. getting involved in giving money to AIDS, which continues to this day. Amazing. Yeah. If you're an American, you're an AIDS activist, and that's amazing. I tell

some people that they go, I don't want to be one. That's the largest health intervention in the history of medicine to fight a single disease up until this recent pandemic. And it's, and it was, you know, Bush and people, conservatives got involved. It started with Nancy Pelosi, actually. Her first speech on the floor of the Congress as she arrived to the Capitol was about AIDS. So many other people worked for this. And some of the better meetings I had were actually with, you know, staffers and policy wonks. And, you know, we used to meet on Friday nights. I'd find out which pubs they were going to. And I would, you know, meet the people. I'd meet, you know, that's the way to do it. It's not all principled or principled, as it was, you know. But then,

you know, yeah, Jesse had this thing and he, Jesse Helms, a cold warrior, but he repented on the steps of the Senate for the way he talked about HIV AIDS. And he actually, and I used, of course, the scriptures, which, which I, you know, as a writer, you know, whether it's Bob Dylan, or it's Nick Cave, or it's, you know, it's all my Leonard Cohen. They know my favorite writers, all versed in the scriptures. And, you know, and I went after them because I, my attitude was so, so who would Jesus be hanging out with here, you know? And, and what's, you know, where's the judgmental part of Jesus? Jesus didn't speak in judgment about anybody. In fact, the only thing Jesus spoke in judgment about was the way we treat the poor. And he was, you know, stopped in his

tracks. And, and I said, that's, you know, Jesus wasn't maybe, people think that Jesus is like focused on your pants. What's going on in your pants? You know, what, I mean, what vision of God do we have? And it's like, it's, it's, it's like we put ourself or, you know, our, you know, bad relative in the place of God. And of course, God is huge and gigantic love. And, and it's just so obvious. You don't even have to win the argument. Also, also known as common sense, God. Yes. Yeah, I like to think so. And anyway, these, these, these drugs are transformative. And I was just lucky to be part of it. And reaching out though, across the aisle, that was, that's a hard thing to do in America today. It's getting harder and harder. It's gotten harder. You'd think that

since then it would be, and, and, and again, if anything, a lot of sort of, you know, very right wing Christianity has been, you know, weaponized what they're saying in a way that doesn't seem that's sort of incongruous with the actual notion of Christianity. It's ridiculous. It is ridiculous. From your perspective over there, with fresh eyes of not being immersed in America, does, does it seem like there might be one obvious thing that you might recommend to us to focus on that, that would bring both sides together? Or can you come back, can you come back over and say this? Yeah, what, what would you, as you, you know, you put the commonality of, of, of faith with, with Jesse Helms and you, what would be the, the common thing that might, might bring both sides

together nowadays over here? I wonder. America doesn't exist yet. That's what I'm, that's, that's what I'm pitching at the moment. I, to conservatives and liberals, I say America is the greatest idea the world has ever had, but it doesn't exist yet. And for certain communities, it's not there. And the idea that you can write it, that you can create it now, people listening and the podcast thinking, well, what is America then? I, I, that is, it's on its way. And, and that's the, that's the most encouraging I could be. I agree about that. Is it an embracing of a coexistence? Sorry, Sean, is it, do you think, is the general sort of American idea, I wonder, just from, from your international perspective, is it, is it just a, to the extent that you are

comfortable to coexist with other? Is that what the promise is? Yeah, that's exact. That's, that's a really good definition of it. And America is. Well, Jason just saw a bumper sticker. Yeah, it's a co-exist with him. Yeah, sorry. But, you know, it's, it's just, I, I mean, I love, as much as this book I've written is a, is a love letter to, you know, my Mrs. to Ali, it's also a love letter to America. And, and I, you know, came here. I mean, I, I, I went to city lights. I don't know if you've been to that bookstore in San Francisco, Ferlinghetti, Lawrence Ferlinghetti set it up. And I, I, I, I fell in love with America reading Ginsburg and Carowag and the plays of Sam Shepard and Patty Smith. I was like, wow, I was sort of, I didn't

know I'd be getting to write about this America that I was reading about. But I, I even then just sensed this is, this is a mythological place as well as a physical landscape. And, and I, and I, there was two Americas really. And, and I wanted to write about both. It's amazing. You did, you, you wrote so much about it. I mean, Joshua Tree was really felt like you were flexing your American muscle. You were there. You guys were, you were absorbing and kind of reflecting back to us. You know, while I was Canadian, but close enough, you were sort of reflecting back to us what you were seeing. And you guys were kind of, you were out there at Joshua Tree and you were, had the hats and you had the thing and you were in the streets and you were doing the concert on the roof,

right? You did all that stuff in this kind of great way. And you, I don't know, there was all, there was all, there was, there was like a real absorption of American culture. And then, then you go on. The pop tour. What record was it? Yeah. What record did you assume the character of the flying? Acton Baby was the cutting down of the Joshua Tree. Cutting down of the Joshua Tree. Went to Berlin to record that. Yeah. Which is a great record. And I always wondered, there, there always felt like when you were kind of playing the persona of the rock star, it was very sort of Bowie-esque in a lot of ways. But like, did you, it was almost like, I thought, and I didn't, I'd never met you at that point, but I would often thought like,

I wonder if it was almost like a rejection of, because you had, you guys were so famous and you were so big. And it was almost like your way of dealing with fame in that way that it almost, who you, Bono, who was part of the world was this other entity that belonged to the world. And you were kind of stepping back and watching him as well. Was, was there any truth to that? Yeah, but I mean, yes, it was kind of, it was some kind of satire of, of fame and the rock star. But I'll be honest with you, you know what I mean? This was quite attractive. Yeah. And I was like, wow, I can get, I can, I can say shit. I would never say I can be this larger than life character. And I, you know, I was dressed head to toe in this kind of, you know, Elvis,

68 special meets Lurid meets Van, you know, Jim Morrison, the other Morrison. And I, I'm like, wow, I was an edge said, wow, you know, those plastic fans are starting to fit you a little too well there, dude. And, and, you know, I mean, I really, we, and in the nineties was so great to us because it, it unlocked us from being these, being just a collection of sounds and ideas. And I also needed just to chill out because, you know, just put the fist down for a while. And that's, you know, so you edge of myself have a place in the south of France for the last 30 years. That's where we met you. Well, I think first. And, and so, yeah, I needed to, I certainly needed to chill out and I got quite good at it. And then I felt in a way, you know, people say,

you know, oh yeah, then you went back to saving the world. The way I see it is I saved my own ass because I wanted to be useful again. I wanted to be useful to ins, these are corny words, but it's service. You know, I wanted, I needed to meet by the end of the nineties, I've done enough chilling. So I think I needed to be, I needed to, to get back to, to being useful. And that's when we did the drop the debt campaign and red and, and then one. And, but so they really did, it brought me on this other journey that I needed towards adulthood, but I haven't quite got there. But it was fun. But it was a big undertaking. And I know that you, you brought in, that's when you brought in our mutual friend, the great Tom

Freston, who we've mentioned on the podcast before, the most interesting man in the world. They're the best life of anyone in the world, or anyone we know. Boy, if I was Tom Freston and Bono called my life the best life in the world, I'd feel pretty good. Congratulations, Tom. You got to get him on your podcast. He's a pirate company. Can't book him. Can't make a deal. Can I ask a question I've always wondered, which is where did, where did your name come from? Because I don't know your real name. I've only known you as Bono. Yeah. My oldest friend, Guggie, is a really extraordinary abstract painter of some renown around the world now, but it was street gang. And I've known him

since I was three. And he gave me the name Bono. And I can assure you he was not a Latin scholar. So Bono Vaz was the name of a hearing aid factory. It was not, he did not know it meant strong voice. There you go. Wow, that's fascinating. I didn't know that. I didn't know that. If you wanted to be of service in the 90s, you've got to see the clear need for that service 30 years later. Are you going to take a walk through our country again soon and give us some helpful talks and guidance and perspective? I don't think. I mean, I'm amazed that I've got away with it, to be honest with you. This is Irish Rockstar quoting the Declaration of Independence as the liner notes to his favorite album, following America into the bathroom.

Hey, it says this year, why are you doing that? And I'm like an annoying fan of America. And, you know, I'm thrilled that you let me in to your life, given me incredible life. But I'm, you know, I'm, yeah, it's, it's, there's, there's a lot to learn in this landscape for me. And I've not much much to teach other than one simple thing, which is, goes back to this Franciscan friar. Um, he says, listen, deep listening. That's what America needs to do. And not listening to the people that we don't agree with, maybe even listening to people we don't like. And, and people who annoy us. And if you can do that in your band, then the rest is, the rest will be easy. I really truly listen to people who annoy us. Sean, go ahead, say something.

Yeah, I truly do listen, I truly do listen to all new, as many news networks as I can to get all perspectives, even if I don't agree with them to your point. But also speaking of listening, the edge told me that you guys are going to go on tour in Vegas and he showed me the renderings of this new theater or something. It's going to be unbelievable. I mean, it's a brand new venue, right? That they're building just for you or are you the person? You are a news network now, because that's breaking news. And we haven't signed off on it. But if, if we do, if we do sign off on this, I will say that the, if we can pull off what we're talking about, it's not like anything we've ever done before. It's not like it's selling anything. Las Vegas

has ever seen before. Have you seen some of the plans? Yes, it's, he showed me all the, it's incredible. If we pull, if this happens, it will be really extraordinary. And I, and again, I don't want to, I shouldn't be. Whatever it is, it sounds very exciting. Blame it on Edge. He showed, it's not me. No, no, I mean, he just showed me from my eyes only. But it's, it's incredible. It's great. You know, there's a lot, I'm interested in Las Vegas and for all kinds of reasons. And you kind of always have been, right? Yeah. Like I used to say, even going back to the fly and, and, and, and, you know, we used to say call it Las Vegas trash and, and Berlinish decadence. And I'm interested in the concept of faith versus look. I'm interested in, there's a great

architectural manual called learning from Las Vegas about how don't knock it or laugh at it. This, this sort of fabulous architecture is not overtly male. It's not overtly, it's playful. And these cities that we live in are very male and big, you know, straight lines. We've lost curves, we've lost, and this, this, you know, Las Vegas in some ways looks like it's been designed by children. And I think that might be a good thing sometimes. Yeah. That's interesting. That's a good point. Another sidebar. I'm obsessed with your daughter and one of my favorite shows in the world called bad sister. She's good. She's incredible. And the show is amazing. And you must feel so proud of her. I mean, you can't stop talking about the show. It's one of the

greatest. No, she's got a lot of, she's very, very funny. And she is a comedian and she, she can do what he wants, but she was playing these very sort of serious or tour chosen sort of muse parts. And then when she got this, she got to be more like herself, you know, a killer. Exactly. And then she's got a lot of discipline too. You strike me as somebody who would make a very, very good actor. And I feel like I may have seen you act in something. Don't insult the guy. I mean, what are you doing? No, no, no, but I, you know, look, it's beneath him. Sting is fantastic at it. Bowie was fantastic at it. Have you ever, do you have a yearning for that at all? Because I'd love to see it. I bet it would be fantastic.

Not really. I played myself in a film once, it was really hard. And, and I, I don't know, when I was younger, yes. Now, I'm, I don't know, and I'm starting to realize that the camera loves people who don't necessarily love the camera. I've spotted that. And I'd be more of a theater actor, you know. And I love being in the theater. And because that's where I get to break down the fourth wall. You can, I want to be in a theater where the actor could just feel like you can walk off the stage, just get into my life, get into my mind, follow me home, mug me on the way home. You know, you make out whatever, you know, it's, it's, that's the kind of thing I like. And it's harder to get off, it's harder to get off the silver screen, isn't it? And I would just, I think I look

even more preposterous. You know, when you two went on Top of the Pops, our very first televised appearance on this legendary UK, you know, show the week's charts for music, we went on and our, our song went down the charts immediately because we looked so preposterous. And I, particularly, I looked like a sort of, I looked like somebody's given me an electric shock. And I'm doing the, I'm doing the sort of mad movements you do in a mirror, you know. And I think I'm seeing myself in a monitor or something. And so I look cross-eyed as well. And, and I don't think we've got an amazing audience in the UK. But, you know, I think there's some people I'm eating for them going, yeah, are you a crap then? I saw you on Top of the Pops. You were crap. But I'm

just like, how old were you? I saw you on Top of the Pops make you a crap. And I'm like, crap. That was our, that was our second album. It was a song called Fire. Is that right? Yeah, it was crap. And, and I go, you know, that was, we got better. We got better. Yeah, right? Yeah. I just saw that one. That's, it's so, by the way, that's so Irish and so Canadians too. I have so many people I knew who I grew up with. And I go back and I go, saw that thing you did last year. Wasn't very good, was it? And I'm like, oh, thanks, man. Thanks. I thought Canadians were much more polite. No, they're not. No, no, no. They're really, they're really passive aggressive. To fellow Canadians, they show the real, the real devil. We're not like Scandinavian Scandinavian. If you're,

you've been to Sweden a million times, I'm sure. And you go to Scandinavia, they go, they go, oh, look at you. You look quite fat. And you're like, Ben, what do you, nice to see you too. I'm just saying it too much fatter than last time I saw you. No, I got it. I got it. One more thing before you, I do want to mention, I know you mentioned your daughter and your son also, how, what's that experience been like? Your son Elijah's, he's got the band Inhaler who are doing really well, especially across Europe and the UK. They debuted at number one, I think. Wow. Yeah. The album went in at number one, which means they must have sold, you know, a thousand copies the way the things are going now. Are you so happy to have him off the payroll?

Just at least. I think I'm going to be on his payroll. It's very annoying. It's very easy for, it's too easy for him. First of all, he looks like Elvis and he's like, you know, he's like, oh, he's in a high school band. They're ridiculously talented. And I'm saying, you know, the early gigs, you know, don't you, you know, are you, are you, there's some YouTube fans turning up and he goes, oh, don't mind the, the hairy ones. And then the other guy in the band goes, they're not even hairy now. They're bold. And I go, is this a problem for you? He says, dad, they buy the merch. And now, of course, they're selling out everywhere. And you know, and they're very sophisticated band. And, and he's effortless in so many ways. I didn't know he had those pipes.

I knew he could play guitar. He's got a great, he's got a great voice. And there are so many moments, of course, he's your son, where he sounds like, sounds like you. I wonder like, what is, so your wife, Allie, who's just amazing and, and you dedicate your book to her. And I've had the good fortune of meeting her a number of times. And what is it like for her? Do you, I wondered, like, is there part of her when your son started, you know, playing music, where she's like, great, now you've turned our son into a rock star as well? Like, you know what I mean? It was eerie for her, you know, because she was going to clubs, sometimes the same clubs. And when we were playing under beat 10 or 20 people there,

and she's seeing her son. And yeah, I think that it was quite a thing. And, you know, she was like, you know, can you get him off the video games? He's on the video games all the time. And I remember a side lead up to me was like, I don't know, 14 or 15, I'm going, and he's, I don't know what it was, World of Warcraft or something. He's just looking and he's shooting things out of the sky, whatever they do. And I'm saying, how's it going? He goes, yeah, good. How's good? Yeah, you were getting really good at that. He goes, thanks. I said, you should practice that a bit more. He goes, what? I said, if you, if you really work on this, like, you could get like, you could be one of the best ever World of Warcraft ever. And he goes,

yeah, yeah, I said, yeah, when you're like 21, that's really gone. You're really gonna make a big impact on women with that. And he stopped. He looked at me. He goes, oh, yeah, right. I said, no, but you're an amazing guitar player. Just don't forget that. You're really, that's the only advice I gave him. And he's never even thought about any other advice I've tried to give him. That's so good. But I'll bet, I'll bet you gave, I bet you actually gave some very, very good, also crafty, parental, parental guidance there. You and your wife with him and your daughter, when they thought about doing something that might be kind of public facing, you know, growing up as, you know, your children, I'm sure there were, there were, there was a moment at least, where they were reluctant

to, you know, see if they could measure up. And I'll bet you and your wife gave some real good daddy, mommy stuff to encourage them. Irish people. Irish people were good to them. And because they were probably bored with their father, they really didn't bother these. And then we went to a local school, all our kids went to the local school and free school and, you know, progressive school and just a talk school project was called. And they were treated and mistreated like everybody else by their, by their mates. And, and they just grew up. It wasn't what would be harder for you, because I think fame might mean something different in America. I think it's a little harder to endure, because we always escape back to Dublin, to Ireland. And

sometimes I forget after, you know, say, after lockdown, I remember going out and going, oh, shit, I'm famed again. And I have to put on that stupid voice. I have to put on the funny walk. And no, the advice of their friends was as important as ours. And, and I don't think he's taught him much about his father's fame at all. I think he's just, he's just very focused on what he's doing with his band. Oh, that's great. That's great. Well, you guys, you guys have certainly cultivated a, like you said, you, your kids all go to the local, went to the local school. And, and I know that, you know, in the summertime, you and Ed spent a lot of time together and your family's kind of all, everybody together. And there's a real sense of that kind of community

and family. Yeah, community is the right word. Yeah. And, and it's, it's really lovely. And, and then there's always all kinds of artists and people coming in and out. But it's never, there's never any pretension. It's kind of like everything's very, I don't know, very, very real. And in a way that's not what you think it would be. It's not this kind of like, you know, up there, it's, it's very grounded. And you see it in your kids and your family. So you can hear in the music too. And you, yeah, of course, it's amazing. It's really, really generous thing to say, because it's the most important thing to us. And we didn't screw up our kids, but we can still try. But thank you. Please keep it going. And your band is a great band. And you started in lockdown

for the right reasons. And we love to listen to you. And there's been some great ones. Will you, talking about breaking back into your old house, when you've sellers remorse on the David Remning cap. So that had me laughing into my cornflakes. I really did really choke on my cornflakes. And, and that's, all of you have kept us sane in insane times. So thank you. Very nice of you. Well, thank you for your contributions to the world. Yeah. Yeah. And your contribution is smart list. Thank you for giving us an hour of your time. It's really, really an honor. It's an honor to meet you. Yeah, for sure. Blessings to you three. Bye-bye. Unto your team. All the best. Bye, Bono. Good luck. See you. Thank you. Bye-bye. Yes. Of course, Bono slammed it. Of course,

Bono slams a laptop. I mean, he's not going to miss a move like that. Did it feel like we went into like a, into like a different area of the space time? Like did we just like go find a little pocket of time? Yeah. And you could have just sat there and listened to him. Well, I mean, I definitely did. You two clearly have done that before with him. I mean, like, it's like a fucking Conan party, fucking Sean's eating with Edge. You're hanging out with Bono. Like, where am I? You know, what I'm doing? I'm like down at Whitsitt hitting balls, you know? Well, maybe stop playing so much fucking golf and get out into the world, man. There's a whole world. I had the good fortune of spending some time with those guys down in the South of France.

I was working nearby and they were very generous and invited me over a bunch. And Eli and I went over a bunch of times. Yeah, it was amazing. And how nice. How nice is Edge, by the way, Edge did one of the most generous thing ever. This huge party and all these people around. And he knows that, that I didn't drink. It's no secret that I've been in and out with, you know, booze over the years and that I don't drink and, and, and, you know, everybody's having a good time. And he went, I said, you know, that somebody offered me a drink. I said, no, no, no, I don't. And he came, but he went into the kitchen himself and comes back out with a tray with like four ice cold bottles of San Pellegrino sparkling water and a glass and stuff. He says, here,

I got this for you and bubble on if you need it. And a whiskey chaser and some Coke. Coke is still on the table for you, right? Yeah. Oh, a little bit of weed. Oh, what we call fat rails. Fat rails. Yeah. Good for you. Fat rails. And a bag of shrooms. And he just, yeah, but nice guy. Four ice, no booze. But you know, when you, when you were introducing, but it was very generous, but they're both like that. Yeah, they're both like, when you were introducing him, I really did get nervous. I was like, oh my God, this guy's going to be like, who is this? And of course it was huge, it was Bono. And, and the first thing I thought of was like, how many bands, it's so rare now that

the world creates bands that have such longevity like you too. Or, you know, you think of the Rolling Stones or you too. You know what I mean? Yeah. Sean, did you, it's weird that the, why would they, why do you think that they would name the band after a bomber plane? Why do you, why, what do you, did you ever ask edge that? That you too is a bomber? No. Yeah. Yeah. The you too bomber plane. That's not why they named it. Is that why they named it? That's not true. No, it's not. It means you too. Me, him, and you too. You know, like, I thought I was going to get on that. Wait, no, but you know what I mean? Oh yeah. You know what I mean, though, but like, like, how, isn't that wild that we live like now, they don't make them like they used to like, there's,

no, no, he's a proper rock star from a proper super group that doesn't exist. And the other, I have another memory one time. We were out here in Long Island having lunch and I was, Chappy was here and we, I know Chappy gets another mention. She's actually showing up today. I'm really excited to see him. And we come back to the table. Yeah. Chappy and Conan are coming over. We come back to the table. We went out to have a little visit with the men from, from RJ or Reynolds. And we come back to the table and as they're approaching the table, I'm not kidding. The painter who's Julian Schnabel was sitting at the table talking to Bono. Oh no, it's a crazy name job. And as I'm walking back, Bono says to me, hey, Will,

we're just having a conversation. What do you think about the idea of like being able to put value on art and actually paying money for art and, you know, value of art? And I go, I'm not Bono, I'm not answering that. You think that I want this to turn into the, the story of the time I got punched in the face by Julian Schnabel? I said, no, thanks. That's a hell of a movie director too. No kidding. Yeah. Now, what were you guys talking about at the beginning? Is he doing some sort of tour with the book where he's going to be alone on stage kind of playing acoustic, kind of like a Springsteen type of show? Thank you. So from his book, Surrender, 40 Songs, One Story, he is, he did a show at the

Beacon and now starting in April of, actually starting April 16th, he's going to be doing his show where he goes and he talks on stage and he does some songs from U2. And he tells stories, excerpts from his books, and then he tells stories and interacts with the audience. He did it this fall and, you know, people went crazy for it. And so he's going to, he's decided to come back and he's going to do more shows there. And it's really exciting. I mean, more shows at the Beacon or is he going to go around the Beacon? And then around, yeah, it's just been like, the reviews of it are amazing. People say it's just incredible. And like he said, he's sort of sanctioned by the band because he's up there himself doing it. And

Edge was at his, at that show that he did at the Beacon. I don't know if Adam and Larry were, but anyway, pretty cool stuff. Man, I'd like to see that. Yeah. Again, I'm someone, you know, it's funny. Like I really, I've always been a fan of the band and their music and all those guys, the guys I just mentioned, Larry and Adam and Edge and Bono collectively, U2, just such a fan. And they, for all of us, their music has played different parts of our lives over the years. But it was, I think the thing I'm the most in awe about is his activism and the what he's done to actually use that to not just reflect it in the songs and the content, deliver powerful message in his songs, but actually go out and do it in the way that he has. Get off his butt and do

it. Dude, right after Band-Aid, he went to Africa. He and Ali went to Africa and worked in Africa. And he's just all the stuff that he's done over the years. I mean, just countless stories of shit that he's done that people don't even know about. And between writing and touring and stuff, it's like kind of amazing. It's pretty sick. And then I think about, you know, Jason at the fucking grade working on his seven iron and just thinking like, why am I finishing here and the face is not square. I'm not even thinking about helping cleaning up the balls afterwards. No. It's like, you know, I'm just like, he's out there traveling to Africa feeding people, you know. You don't even pick up your own fucking golf. In fact, I'm annoyed that I have to look at all those fucking loose

balls out there in the range. I want a clean range to hit to. You're feeding the pond the balls. Me. I'd love for him to write a song about that. Why don't you write a song it's called, ready? Bonnet is thinking about like, how can I, what can I do next to save the world? And Sean's thinking like, how big is the biggest bag of Skittles? Like, do they make a 10 pounder? Because I could really hit those. So when he comes back out to do a show in April, do you think you can dust off this, this friendship Willie and give him a text? Because I don't want to have to buy the tickets. Bye. SmartLess is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Rob Armjolf, Bennett Barbaco,

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