SmartLess - "Brendan Shanahan"

Episode Date: November 2, 2020

Brendan Shanahan skates on in for this barnburner of an episode. “Shanny” is a former pro ice hockey player and Hall of Famer who currently serves as the President of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Having won the three most prominent team titles in ice hockey (an Olympic gold medal, a World Championship, and a Stanley Cup) he is a member of the elite “Triple Gold Club.” He’s also a really cool dude. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello listener, this is Jason Bateman along with Will Arnett and Sean Hayes for the podcast called Smartless. If that's a place you're looking for, you've found it. Congratulations. It's not a real high concept podcast. One person invites a guest, the other two don't know who that guest is and then we chat. Here we go. I have a quick question to the side of Will as a window where I see workers just constantly not giving up. Really a lot of decoration going into Denny's room. Yeah. What are they doing over there? Are they building a room for your awards that you hope to get one day? Yeah. Well, I just said, I said, look, I'm doing this podcast and this thing's about to clean up. So I'm going to need a

shrine built. So it's not an actual shrine yet. Obviously it's just the base of a shrine. What are they building? No, they're building, this is the baby's room, the new baby. We're renovating what used to be the guest room is now little Denny's room. Oh, that's nice. Did you ever have a guest in that room? Den, do you get it? I have had a couple of guests in that room, Jason. Really? Yeah. Boy, the way you asked that was so shitty. Tell me who? My parents once, I never made that mistake again. They're listening. My parents are not listening. They don't

listen to me. Or somebody they know may hear this and then send it to them. More likely. Although I do that all the time. I take shots of my parents as a bit all the time on Kimmel and I'm always joking that they'll never hear it. And then my mom will send me a text like, that is absolutely not true what you said on Jimmy. And I'm like, oh my gosh. No, it's a bit. I always try to throw my wife under the bus for bits on talk shows and she put the kibosh on that early on. And I got nothing. After that I got nothing. I constantly use Scotty. It all works every time. It always works. My favorite target is Jason. I take a lot of fire.

He takes a lot of fire. I feel like I'm the second. I'd love to know what the third one is. Listen, Sean, if you want me to take more shots at you, all you've got to do is ask. What are you doing? Holy crap. That brings me to our guest today, a very special guest. This person has excelled in their field beyond belief. This person has scored 656 goals. Over 1,500 NHL games. He has won three Stanley Cup championships as a player, one Olympic gold medal as a player, one gold medal in the world championship. He's one of an elite group of people who were in the triple gold club, they call it. I was actually at the

ceremony with this guy. He then took his career after his playing career and after an illustrious career drafted number two in the NHL draft after this hall of fame career, which I couldn't make the ceremony because I was busy that weekend and I don't think he's ever forgiven me. And then after that awards for the hair. He has got incredible hair. He worked for the NHL and the player safety department, which used to be the sort of rules enforcement and he changed the name to player safety because he's all about good PR. He's a great guy. By the way, it sounds like we don't have to talk to him because you're just, he is now the president of, he's the president and an

alternate governor for the NHL and president of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Is that right? Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Brendan Shanahan. Let him go. There he is. Hello there. Dry eye. Dry him up Shanahan.

Let me dive right in and ask the first question. How in the world did you and will meet? Why are you and will are next? When did that happen? By the way, Shanahan, feel free to tell the real or a fake story. Well, I'll, I'll tell the fake story first. I forget if we, I think we were at a gym working out and that's how it always starts. Always starts always starts like that. Me too. That's our fake story. That's our fake story. Barroom brawl. The true story is I was on the fifth floor of Barney's looking at sweaters and all of a sudden will our net walked up

to me and it's like, Hey man. Hey man. I know some people you know. Oh boy. Yeah. And it's my go to pick up line. It was actually, you know, will and I, I think will you're a year or two younger than me, but we did grow up in the same neighborhood and we had some friends that we went to high school with and so I think you can help and mention that and yeah, and I didn't really know at the time that it would lead to all of this. Otherwise I probably would have walked

away. But was the next step the changing rooms? I mean, was he like saying, Well, let me see that on you. And I'll, I mean, you want fresh eyes, right? You want fresh eyes. Let me help you put that color combo together and he picked out some pants and I think that's cute. That's it. Well, I think we stick with the fake story. Barney's, and by the way, now

and now we're dating ourselves. Like the kids now are going to go Barney's. What's a Barney's? And it doesn't even exist. I know. You'd have to meet online. Very vintage. You'd meet it like Mr. Porter meeting guys online. Yeah. By the way, speaking of when we met actually, I'm sorry, Will, but Jason and I go even

way further back than you and I. That's true. That's right. Can't wait for our story. The Logan family. Wasn't it? It was through Josh Taylor. Sean, this is our story.

You and I today. This is it. Hopefully in 30 years, we're going to be retelling this one. Yeah. Keep your, keep your computer. Yeah. Well, what was his name? Jason?

Wasn't it Josh Taylor? The guy who played my dad on the show. He was buddies with you or with Sean Burke or with somebody with the devils, right? We, I was at a charity thing for Wayne Gretzky in Branford, Ontario in the summertime. I just finished my rookie year, I was, I had just turned 19 and I sat beside him at this event and after, after an evening, having dinner next to him, he said, you know, you're the same age as this kid on my show. I got to introduce you when, when are you playing in LA?

I said next year. So I gave him my number and somehow we were both gay at that time. It took me a couple of years to get it. So he was trying to set us up. That's what that was. And Brandon, this really is our first story, this will just parlay so easily. So yeah, you guys came out, you guys played the Kings and Josh and I went to that game and then we all went out afterwards and got ice cream.

Yeah. That's all right. What were we, 19 years old at the time and I think I saved your life at the end of the night. Yeah. And then I got a little, you're not going to believe this, Will. I think I was running my mouth a bit with, was it with Sean Burke? Yeah.

Or did I go after one of the thugs? Who was the enforcer? Danica wanted to kill you. Burke wanted to kill you. Danica. Kenny Danica wanted to kill Bateman. Wait, was I just obnoxious or was I trying to like make fun of people? Both.

Well, I guess that's both. Yeah. Because there's no or in that sense. Well, can you remember any of the, because I certainly can't remember anything, but like, what was I like, did I, was I saying I can smell, I can still smell your uniform or was I talking about taking shots at Canada? What was I, what was, you, you actually were the one that was, that was inviting a fist fight with all of them and you were telling them that, that you might not look tough,

but that you were, and then you were going to kick all their asses. By the way, he still opens with that. Can you believe that I stopped drinking? Why didn't you stop? And they're saying to me, they're saying like, Shani, like who's this buddy of yours you brought to this? I think we're at like the airport Marriott just hanging out in a room. That was his spot.

That was Bateman's spot. The airport Marriott. Like make quick outs, you know, just in case something gets hot, I can just leave. How old were you, Jason? They were 19, right? You guys are 19 at the time? Yeah. Yeah.

And so it's funny. That was shockingly, that was the last night I ever saw Jason and then 21 years later now buddies with Will and I'm still shockingly playing in the NHL, I'm 40 and I'm playing for the New Jersey Devils and Will brought Jason to a game and we went out afterwards and reconnected. We said it was, had to be a world record for the biggest gap between two guys hanging out together after a hockey game. It's got to be, which is weird, which is also weird because you started your NHL career

playing for the Devils and then you ended with the Devils and that was, that is still the longest gap between playing for the same team, like being traded, you know, leaving and going, signing somewhere else and coming back. Yeah. It's, it's not really a record you want to have, it just says you're old. It's like, I think it's like the longest gap between scoring goals for the same team. It was like 20 years or something, it was just an invitation, not so polite invitation to please retire.

Because they put skates on the bottom of the wheelchair, right? Yeah. Of course. That second round. Now, Shani, are you, are you, I don't want to get serious now, but are you as thrilled as I would imagine you are that you have earned a position that actually takes advantage of everything that you have absorbed and learned and appreciated and respected about your, your field?

Because a lot of people, you know, they might just kind of max out doing one thing and never really get a chance to diversify into something that takes full advantage of everything that they've learned. I mean, I imagine it's got to be kind of a rewarding feeling. Whoa. Full swing. Yeah. That's good.

You know what, it's actually, it's, it's, it's a great point. I am lucky. It was, but you know, I, it's probably not a lot different than what you guys do. And, and when you transitioned to other, you know, parts of your job and podcasting, podcast this. Yes. Yes. No, but it's, I'll say this, like late, late in my career, there was a, there was a year

where there's a labor dispute with the league and I was, I believe I was 35 or 36. So I was really sort of winding down my career. And up until then I had always thought the day I am done playing is the last day you will see me inside a hockey rink. Like I've spent my whole life here. That's it. I can't wait to not have this pressure on me. I can't wait to, to try something new.

And so there was a year long lockout where the actual hockey season in 2004 or 2005 was canceled. And it was, it, it was like a great eye opening experience for me to realize that I actually really loved the game and I loved many aspects of the game. And, and it, it taught me as I was winding down my career, I had about three or four years left in my career that, that I would certainly, I didn't need to step away and do the talk show golfing with your buddies, telling old stories, uh, circuit. And I just wanted to get to work and, and find a reason to get up in the morning and

be motivated. And so, uh, that was really helpful. And, uh, so yeah, no, I grew up here in Toronto and I always, I always say to my friends, because I lived in New York for a long time when, after I played for the Rangers, you know, me being the president of the Maple Leafs is like a kid that grew up in the Bronx being president of the New York Yankees. It's, it's just a huge thrill for me. Yeah.

Yeah. For us. For us. That's right. So when I first got interviewed for the job for the Maple Leafs, I had, I'd been retired for five years and I'd been working at the National Hockey League in player safety. And, uh, so they called me and, and, you know, with the media here in Toronto, so hockey-centric, it was really important that we kept it private and we kept it, uh, sort of, uh, out of the

media. So no one knew. And then I, I accepted the job, uh, just to the CEO and I came home and I told my wife and my kids and she said, um, I said, look, no one knows yet, uh, but, but I've accepted the job. We've agreed the terms and, and I'm going to go work for the Toronto Maple Leafs. And she said, well, who, you have to tell someone. I said, I'm going to tell the two people it means the most to, uh, I'm going to call

my mom and I'm going to call Will Arnett. You told me before you told your mom, you were worried that she was going to tell the neighbors, I think. You might be right. I think I texted Will and it's just said like, Hey man, I'm, uh, I've just been named the president of the Toronto Maple Leafs and he texted me back. We did it. Well, did you even know that he was, that he was, uh, meeting on the job?

No, I don't think, maybe, no, I don't think I did. I wouldn't have trusted him. I wouldn't have trusted him. No, I guess I didn't. In my mind, I did. In my mind, we, we, we labored over it. You're at the meeting. Well, Shannie and I talked to Catherine about it, you know, we, as a family, we all talked

about it. Um, but no, I, I didn't, but it was huge. It was so great cause I was like, finally I can impose my will on the Toronto Maple Leafs. And have you another serious question? No. Well, but I mean, come on. You are, you, you have, you have whisper power, right?

So you're not, you're not, you're not making, you know, uh, uh, tangible personnel decisions, but you do have influence because you could say to Shannie, Hey, boy, did you see that rookie? I just think that he is great. You know, it could be very passive joking, all joking aside, there have, you know, of course I don't in any real way and that's not the way it works. But there have been a couple of times there was a really funny time not long into the job.

Shannie, you remember that you were looking at different players and you were starting this rebuild. Sean, for, you have to understand the Toronto Maple Leafs in Toronto are it. It's the, it's all there is. And for years, the team had been. In disarray, let's say, just to be, and Shannie really rebuilt the, they actually called it the Shanna plan, which, uh, oh boy, I know, right? And what you now see now truly I'm watching.

This is like four, five years, right? Five years ago. Okay. Cause I'm just started watching the Michael Jordan documentary and I'm, I'm, I'm kind of as you're talking, comparing it to how the bulls were in the shithole, the Chicago Bulls until Jordan and that whole and Rodman became along. And we got our, this is going to be so controversial. I can't wait for people to say how dare they say it, but we got our Michael Jordan with

Austin Matthews and, and then, and then Mitch Marner or whatever. These are the pieces that, that Shannie's been putting together, but you have to understand. So they were really trying to, he was trying to figure it out, but I remember one night I was sitting at home and I was watching and I was like, you know, who the Leafs ought to get? They ought to buy out here at the time he was still with the Kings, Mike Richards, who had won Olympic gold, won Stanley copies, a hardworking kid from a Kanora, Ontario. And I was like, they ought to get Mike Richards and I take Shannie go, you ought to think about

buying out Mike Richards and he sent me a screen, do you remember this? He sent me a screenshot of your laptop was up at that moment and you had been looking at Mike Richards stats. No, he didn't end up doing it, but yeah, we're just connected, we just finished each other sentences. It just is. Awesome. Awesome.

Yeah. But Shannie, so Sean, I'm going to give you a little context of something that's really cool about Brandon and we call him Shannie, but you have to ask is that is that in 1987 he was drafted number two in the draft. Right. He was a highly touted coming out of junior number two and he was drafted by the New Jersey Devils. The general manager at the time was this gentleman by the name of Lou Lemarello, who's had an

illustrious NHL career as a general manager. He's won multiple Stanley. He went on to start that great sportswear company too, the yoga pants and Lou Leman. Yeah. I think that's not a lot of people know that. Nobody know. Sorry. Go ahead.

I didn't want to know. Yeah. So he, so he was drafted by Lou Lemarello. Number two 1987. When he took over the Toronto Maple Leafs and he's putting together a team, he ended up hiring as general manager Lou Lemarello. The guy who drafted him as a player was now coming to work for him as his general manager. How cool is that?

We just lost our listener. Sean, Sean, did you get it? No, I'm the listener. No, I think that's amazing. Isn't that sick? Yeah. I mean, be more blown away by that. That's unbelievable.

No, it really is. I'm thinking about, because I, you know, being gay, you can imagine I'm an enormous hockey connoisseur. Are there any famous gay hockey players? Sure, but they still don't want to be known. I have a question for you, Brandon or Shani? Shani, we're Shani now, Sean. We're Shani now.

Okay. I, you know, I relate the pressure that you're talking about, the pressure to, you know, I want, I want this pressure out of my life of going to the rink and having to perform and always, you know, killing it every game or whatever. But then you turned around and kind of created another type of pressure by running the joint. So arguably more. Yeah. Right.

So how do you choose to imbue that upon yourself yet again? Well, I think it's the secret that we all sort of learn sometimes a little too late is that, that we do it because we love it. And yeah, I get it when I look at our players now and I know that there are certain things probably about the game that, that, that bothers them. There's, I'm sure with you guys as well, like people would love to be doing what you guys are doing, but there's certain parts of it that aren't as fun, that are difficult. But, and so I think it's normal to sort of say, I can't wait for the day when I sort

of cross that finish line and, and I don't get criticized anymore and I don't have people like second guessing me and I, and I don't have the pressure to perform, but, but then once it's taken away, I, I just watched that last dance as well and in, you know, our team in Detroit at the time when, when Jordan in, in 98, when the show sort of like the last dance, when they were winning their, I think it was their, their second three P in Detroit, when I was with the Red Wings, we were winning back to back and I remember being in our, we would play an off nights, like we were in the Stanley Cup finals and like if we played on a Tuesday, we'd be off on the Wednesday, but then the Bulls would play in the finals

on the Wednesday night, so we'd all gather and watch. So it's weird to sort of go back in time and, and see them at that time. And what I took from that is, and it's, it has to be in this, the same for my industry as it is for yours, that people are successful, can sometimes look very elegant about it and they can sometimes look very sort of smooth, but there's like a fire in their belly that is very, very difficult to satisfy. And that's what keeps you going. Cause, and I use Michael Jordan as an example for this with my kids, when everybody says,

Oh, Michael Jordan, what a winner. And I love that one commercial he did where he talks about all the times he failed. And I think that in any industry, in any business, and when I try to say to my kids, kids will say, Oh, you won three Stanley Cups dad. You're so lucky. And I said that, that means 18 times I lost, like 18 times I felt like a loser all summer long. Like the Thomas Edison thing.

He said, yeah, I didn't find 10,000 ways to do, I found 999,999 ways not to do it. Yeah. Sean has a lot of experience with failure, so, so he knows what you're talking about. Is you want me to just jump right in and is that my cue? No, but I think as you get older, you learn how to handle it better. I remember saying to one of my teammates when I was, you know, in my final playoff, like as a 40 year old, I said, we were playing at game seven, I was just so excited, so loose and not nervous.

And he said, like, how aren't you like sick to your stomach right now? And I remember making the recognition at the time that right when my head is finally starting to get it, my body's starting to lose it. And, interesting. And so the, the ability to handle the pressure now. I also think when I was younger, I liked credit. That's what I thought about with the Bulls thing that poor general manager was named Jerry Krause.

Yeah. He was actually a ridiculously good general manager. He found really good players. He had a great eye for coaching, but his insecurity and his need for credit and his need for attention. But I think that that is something that I'm over now and I really just want to win here for people like Will, so that makes him happy. But you know, you said that fire in the belly, I imagine you still get that, you have to get that, but now you have to be okay with responding to that fire in your belly without

tangibly, literally getting on the ice and, and playing really hard, really well, really aggressively, really smartly, et cetera. You have to do it through these proxies that you put in place. Is that satisfying enough or is it even more so? Great question. I don't think there's anything quite like being a player. And I, I'll say this, it's hard to watch my team play a game seven because I'm standing there in a suit and a suite and I can't do anything.

And I remember as a player, I might have felt sick to my stomach that morning or whatever. Like you learn how to compartmentalize so that you're not nervous when it's not time to be nervous. But I found it easier as a player to be in those moments, cause like you said, Jason, you get to go out and use your energy and skate and body check people and do all these things and you're so focused, but you want to almost just grab these young guys. And I want to, when I was watching the Jordan thing, I almost wanted, I wanted to go back at time and just grab them and say, Michael, go fix this with Scotty and the general manager.

Go, like, don't let this end. Just go talk it out. And I want to grab our young players and just say, you know, it's like children. It's like your kids. Sometimes you care about them. You want to say, like, I don't want you to make mistakes I made, or I want you to learn what I learned to learn it earlier so you can have more fun doing this, but they have to learn it on their own and they have to figure it out on their own.

Would you be able to, uh, to sort of, uh, communicate some of the more specific guidance stuff like that in the head coaching position? Do you have any desire to do that at all? I mean, I know it's, uh, it'd be a step down from where you're at right now, but you'd be more, you know, you travel with the, I don't, I don't imagine you travel with the team right now. Do you? I'm in a lucky position where I get to travel when I, when I, when I want to travel.

Yeah. Is that appealing to you at all? The coaching stuff? Yeah, it is, but, and who knows, maybe when my kids, you know, move off to college and we're empty nesters, I'll be the only guy to go backwards and go from team president to head coach. That would be cool. And frankly, they make more money, um, uh, so I think that, uh, yeah, any chance you

have to, to get these young players and sort of help mold and shape them and have an impact on their lives, hopefully a positive one, it would be fun, but I, my guess is I'll stay where I am as long as I can. You remember like, you guys know what it's like when you, when you like do a show or you're, you're performing or doing whatever and you have that kind of that let down afterwards where you've got all that energy, you've just kind of dumped it all. So when you retire from playing where you're kind of up all the time for over 20 years, 21, 22 years, was it, yeah, and then how long was that?

I mean, I was there for, and was hanging out with you, but how, how long do you think that really took that sort of calm down period right after you retired? Well, that, that's one of the reasons why I wanted to get right to work. Like I remember having a couple of different, you know, ideas about what I wanted to do. And I ended up the easiest thing for me, I lived in Manhattan, my kids were going to school in Manhattan and the easiest thing, and it really took me out of my comfort zone was to go work in an NHL office and really be such a newbie. I was a 40 year old, like total newbie.

I remember my sounds like a joke and makes me sound like an idiot, but it's, it is actually true. At the end of my first day, I'm sitting in this cubicle and, and around, you know, 445, 450, I see some people are staying, some people are leaving. And I said to the woman in the cubicle next to me, like, excuse me, how do we know when it's time to leave? Like, when does the buzzer go? Is there a horn?

Is there a siren? Oh my God. And, you know, she's probably 26 years old and I'm 40 and, and I just, I was that green and I poured it all right into work right away and sort of learning something new and being off balance and, and, uh, Sean, you should know there was a, there was a period not long after, uh, he retired. I called up one day and I said, how are you doing? He goes, I'm pretty good, but I don't know.

It just occurred to me. I'm never going to fight again. And I said, well, yeah, you're 42, man. You shouldn't be fighting anybody. What are you talking about? Let me ask you a question. What hurts more punching a guy's edge of his helmet by mistake, like missing his face and hitting the edge of a helmet or getting a puck in the ankle?

I'm so excited to be able to tell three actors. Never, never, never. If you ever have to punch someone in, in a TV show or movie, shake your hand. It never hurts the moment after you punch. So many people do that. They punch and they go, it hurts an hour after when you realize you've broken your hand in the moment you punch a guy, your hand could be broken. You don't know it.

Your, your adrenaline's going. I have some editing to do then. I have to go back and get some old footage. So it's, is it the puck in the ankle? The ankle hurts right away. The ankle hurts right away. Like I said, the fist thing, it's usually like your, it's like in Ferris Bueller when he catches the ball in about an hour later, he's sort of like doing this going, ow, ow.

This is a great point that you just made, Shannon, I'm glad you brought up Ferris Bueller. So happy to bring up things to people my age that, that get Flintstones jokes and Ferris Bueller. I get blank stares in my office from all these millennials, but I'm like, well, Lonnie Anderson's hot, you know, and Lonnie Anderson. So Sean, you ready for this? Shani has an encyclopedic knowledge of movies and TV. I love that.

You cannot stump him on movies and people who are in movies. It's virtually unstoppable. What was Winona Ryder's first film? Is it Heather's? I was going to say it's Lucas. Lucas. You see? It's interesting.

You said that after I said it, but that's great. That was it. Oh, did you say Lucas? Yeah, that's okay. No, you did it. That's interesting. So I played every single sport. I had three older brothers.

I played football, basketball, soccer, I never played hockey, everything. And then of course, other interests took me into other places that I grew up. I studied piano and arts and all that stuff, but it never occurred to me until like several years ago that, you know, I still watch football. I think it's a super exciting game to watch on TV is the performance of it. Okay. Just from an actor standpoint, I would see these football players who get like angry or a baseball player would get angry.

They get angry just a little more than if a crowd wasn't there or the cameras weren't on. And now is that true? Is that like from this gay guy who doesn't really, you know, I'm not on the inside scoop of all these, how it's all done. But just from a performer, from an actor's standpoint, it seems like they notch it up just a little bit for the crowd. And if they weren't there, it would just be a regular game where there's not a lot of,

you know, hype. I think there's probably more real passion than you expect, but you're not wrong. There were always times where there was a guy on the other team that would be acting up and really sort of like, you know, getting theatrical out there with his, whatever it was, you know, like, I'm so mad. I'm so mad. And we'd be like, Are those the lines he would say?

I'm so mad. I'm so mad. No. Other stuff. But you know, like there was a guy, there was a guy on Colorado, we used to call him Mr. Meanyface, you know, it's like, oh, hey, Mr. Meanyface, you know, like you're scaring us. And then there was a guy in Toronto, like every time they were losing, he'd start a fight

late in the game and throw his equipment and we were like, oh, yeah, yeah, you care more than everyone else. Don't worry, the radio shows will be nice to you tomorrow. You care more than anyone. So it is strange how, like you, I'm the youngest, do you say you're three older brothers? Yeah. Same for me. So I grew up and, and my brothers would laugh at me when I got to the NHL and they'd see

me like losing my mind on the ice or they'd see, but the reality is you're in this like sort of controlled environment where it's sort of okay to lose it and it's, and sometimes it's actually encouraged and it isn't until you get older and you start like having a family and I would say like perspective is the enemy of being a really good athlete. Like once you get to an age where you're sort of like, well, it's really not war and it's really not life and death. Like that's, that's your enemy. And I always remember when I was playing for the Rangers late in the game and we were up

by a goal and in the Buffalo Savers were like coming around our net. There was this young rookie right by the post and the puck was coming to him for an empty net to tap it in and tie the game. And I cross-checked this kid right in the head and drove his head into the crossbar and his helmet fell off and he was carried off the ice and, but they carried off the ice by the way, but he didn't score, but he didn't score. But here's the difference. I got his phone number and called him afterwards and said, Hey, are you okay?

I'm really sorry. And I remember, I remember making the mental note, like you wouldn't have done that when you were like, you know, you're doing that because you're 40. You wouldn't have done it when you were 20. And you would have said, like, even though that was accidental, I want him to think I did it on purpose because then he won't come near me next game. Uh-huh. Yeah.

So since you've been in the game for so long, not only as a player, but with what you're doing now, a lot of changes to hockey. If you could eliminate one of the new rules that has come along since you were rookie, which one would you pick? And I also want to hear which one would you make up and put in? Oh, wow. You know, as much as I tell those stories and I grew up, like I said, I grew up in that environment where it was okay to do these things on the ice.

I'm actually somebody that has, has been on the record for saying that it's, we got to clean the game up. We know more about concussions now and brain injuries and head injuries and the, and it's, and the game has cleaned up. There's, there's a lot less fighting in hockey. There's a lot less. I mean, look, I spent five years or three years working in Clare safety for the national hockey league.

That's, that's like asking a, a former bank robber to, to work at your bank. And by the way, to that, Sean, you should know that Shanney holds the record for the most, uh, what they call Gordy, how hat tricks in the league, which are games where you have a goal assistant, a fight at nine, I think, a record holder, Sean, Sean. I'm so nice. I'm so nice. I get that. I feel that.

That's why I'm like, no, I understand. Like, I, like, I feel like, you know, as close as I am to will and will knows, I feel like I get you already. You would get, you would get along, but at this way, Shanney, I one time was at a restaurant and I went to the bathroom. We were having dinner with another friend of ours and I came up the stairs and I heard Shanney say to this guy, don't talk and I heard him go, say five nice things about me quick.

He was really low. I go, your self-esteem is so low. I heard that. That was unbelievable. I think I said it to you. So, no, Jason, I, so I, I think that the game, um, what, I like the fact that, that the game is making a greater effort to protect, uh, players from serious injuries and especially injuries that could have an effect on them.

So I, I like the rules that are built around illegal checks to the head and, and, uh, you know, fighting is, is, is something that will happen in any sport. It happens in baseball. It happens. Uh, but, but to me, if I see a fight in hockey and it's because, you know, uh, somebody was protecting somebody or somebody was bullying somebody and, and you were addressing it, there's probably still a place for that in hockey, but, but using it as a tool to intimidate or hurt.

I don't know. It's, it's going away from that. It's weird now. Isn't it? Do you find, I find it, we, we were all around the same age and obviously I grew up watching that whole era and the nineties were a particularly brutal time in the NHL. It was super tough. A lot of fights, a lot of really hard hits, a lot of dangerous hits, um, lots of dudes

carted off the ice. Uh, now when I watch a game and, and I see a fight, it's kind of unusual. People still talk about, Oh yeah. You know, especially down here, they'll say, you know, went to a hockey game and a, no, went to a fight in a hockey game, broke out. That's not the way it is anymore. It's rare and I'll talk about my brother's like, I remember, uh, my brother, Sean, my brother, Brian were on the same hockey team and I kind of copied them, how they played

sports. That's, that's who I emulated and they were tough guys and they played some defense and they played, they scored some goals. But I always thought when, when Brian fought, it was that moment in the stands where the whole arena was sort of saying, and they were lacrosse players and it was when the whole arena was sort of saying, somebody do something, you know, don't let him get away with that. And then Brian would come running over like a hero, like, you know, and take care of it. But then Sean, when Sean would fight, it was like the whole crowd was going, Oh, that was

dirty. That was, that looked mean. So I think hockey's getting away from, from that. Or is it becoming a more offensive league as opposed to, uh, to a defensive, uh, league or game? For sure. Yeah. Well, I just, like, it's, I don't know.

The way I think is not necessarily the way I played, you know, um, and I, I know people get pissed off at me when I say stuff like this, but I don't get excited to see a big hit. But I, I get excited when I see a big goal and I just, I just can't cheer, get excited anymore. And I want to say anymore because there's probably lots of occasions where I did bad stuff on the ice, but probably I, I don't want to see any of these young, young guys on the ice getting carried off.

I just don't, I don't get off on a, you watch these other sports leagues though, um, uh, make these huge efforts to, to, to market out the sport and, and increases popularity, like, uh, you know, baseball will go towards, um, juicing the ball and putting in clocks between pitches to, to up the pace of the game where, um, so, so they're looking for more offense. They think that that'll be more exciting for people. Whereas for like football, they think, you know, well, careful, we don't want to like say that you can't hit a guy too hard because people tune in for, for sort of the, the violence

and the physical contact of it. So where do you think hockey sits in that where every league would naturally want to increase its viewership and it's, and it's appeal, uh, and TV friendliness of it as far as, you know, excitement goes, where do you, what do you think the best combo is for, for the NHL to, to, you mean like, what's the thing they can market? What's the thing they can hone in on? I think people, I tell my, my, my kids this, I think whether you're an actor or a professional hockey player, people are attracted to passion.

So whatever that, how, like Michael Jordan wasn't fighting anybody, but he was passionate. Um, I, I think, I think when you see that someone really loves their job and is really into their job, uh, even if you don't know the first thing about their job, you're attracted to that person. Yeah. That's, I love watching Olympic hockey because you, you definitely mean I love NHL too, but the Olympic hockey's got a, this different sort of like you got that national pride that seems to pull out a real passion and desperation, uh, in those games.

And it's single game elimination. It's like it's what I'm done. And also, right, and it's one and done and there's, we went to the 2010 Olympics in Vancouver. Uh, Shanie was kind enough to get his ticket. So Jason, I were there with, with you and that was unbelievable. And I remember the time thing like, this is so, isn't this so great watching the Canada win Olympic gold. And of course Shanie had already won a gold, I'd forgotten that, but tell me what it,

what was that like as a player? We've never actually talked about this about the Olympics. I don't think maybe we have, I probably fell asleep, but what, what do you mean? Yeah. What did you love? What was that like winning Olympic gold for Canada? Well, the, in 1988, the Olympics were in Calgary, but I made the NHL in 1987 as an 18 year old. So at that time, the moment you were a professional, you could not play in the Olympics.

So I thought my Olympic dream was, was over. So my first Olympics was, um, the first time they, they allowed professionals to go is after the basketball dream team in 98, um, we, NHL shut down for two weeks and let us all go to Nagano and I, and, and, and then in 2002, I was able to go back to Salt Lake. So I couldn't, the whole winning the gold medal in Salt Lake in 2002, um, is really connected to my experience in 98 and 98. We were the favorites to win. We were having an unbelievable tournament.

We were in the semifinals against the Czech Republic and we ran into a hot goalie. Um, we ended up tying the game with, with under a minute to go. We went through overtime. There was no winner in overtime. So we went to a shootout. Now I had never, none of us had ever been in a shootout in hockey for these stakes. So unlike soccer where they, they do it all the time, we didn't know what to do. So they, they're calling out five names and, and we're all sitting on the bench, Wayne

Gretzky's on the team, myself and like great, great players and probably all Hall of Famers. And the coaches are having a little meeting and, and we're going to have this shootout to decide who goes and plays in the gold medal game. And they start calling out names and, and I'm, I'm just in my head. I'm going to pick me, pick me, pick me, pick me, pick me. And then the fifth name, they go Shanahan. So all I'm thinking is, oh my God, I hope I get to shoot. I hope I get, I get to score, be the winner and be the hero.

They score the first goal, then everyone else misses. And I'm the last shooter, I'm the last shooter for Canada to advance and I don't score. And I let down the whole country and it was very confusing to me. It was like, like I said, we talk about athletes and how they compartmentalize and they're always thinking they're supposed to take that last shot of the game and they're supposed to sink that three and they're supposed to be the winner. And now I got to wait four years. I don't even know if I'll make the team in four years, I'll be 33 in four years.

So I went home and after some real soul searching, I wrote on a, on a piece of paper. I didn't tell my wife, but I wrote on a piece of paper. You're going to make the Olympic team in 2002. You're going to win the gold medal and you score, going to score the game winning goal. And I mailed it to myself and put a stamp on it, mailed it to myself and got it. A couple of days later and put it in my drawer so I could prove that I actually mailed it in 1998. So going back and doing this in 2002 was personally, it was so much about redemption and I didn't

get the game winning goal, but, but I didn't care. We were able to beat USA on their soil and they had a great team and we had some, it was just a fantastic thing. When I came home, I went and a couple of days later, I went into my office and searched through my drawer and found the envelope and handed it to my wife and she read it. You didn't tell her about it before any of that. Did you keep it a secret the whole time? Oh yeah.

Cause what if we lost or what if I didn't make the team? Right, right, right. That would have gotten in the fireplace. That's cool. I've learned so much about you during this, but I'm always fascinated with, you know, your whole life. It seems just meeting you here for the first time all about hockey all the time, 24 seven. What in the world would you ever dream of doing else other than hockey or have you did

delved into anything outside of the sports world? That's it. That's it. Bye-bye now. Take care. Bye. See you. No, I'm just getting ready for my second career with you guys.

You want to act? We may have a new slot open on the podcast. Will and I are looking to. Wait, what? Yeah. You know what? I actually, I've done some acting with Will. We've done some really special pieces together, Will, the one at the NHL.

We did some pretty good NHL pieces. I made a video where I played Jenny and he, in every video, he kept getting more insane and eventually I eventually ripped my shirt off and then they played it at the NHL awards and he didn't know and I don't, and he was, and he was pissed at me. I know. I know. I know. I know.

I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know.

I know. I know. I was playing the sidewalk walking with a woman and I was like, that guy is a hockey player. And then as I pull up beside him, I realized he's the goalie coach for our minor league hockey team here in Toronto. And I thought, what is the hockey walk, which I had, I used to have as a player, there was this hockey walk. And then, and then when I started working at the league, I remember being late for everything

and I was now just walking like a New Yorker, you know, it was like, it was like little short steps. But that hockey walk, and you do it, Will, in that one segment where you're sort of cruising around the corner to the elevator bank, and I'm like, is that how I walk? Is that how I walk? Well, you got to throw those big quads around each other, right? I loop them around one another. Thank you.

Thank you. Oh, you're complimenting him. Listen, if you want to be a good player, you got a big quad. I love Ozarks. I love Ozarks. Oh, listen. You got to have a pro-dumper too. You need to have a pro-dumper to play your show.

I'm going to jump back. So Sean, I feel like a bit of a dunce. It is true that hockey is like occupied so much of my life, but I'm one of these people that if I pick something up, I get addicted to it, and I, and really honestly, like... Same as Will and Jason. Yeah, go ahead. It's really right. Well, by the way, I do think we've all got it.

Like Michael Jordan, people say that about Tiger Woods when a lot of stuff came out about Tiger Woods. Like, I'm like, he's an addict. He's got the addict gene in him. Like was it normal that a four-year-old boy plays golf for eight hours? No. He's addicted to the right thing. And I find like a lot of the best people I know, or most successful people that I've

met in hockey, they've got that gene and they've just luckily channeled it in the right direction. But, and I'm that way, whether it's gardening or cooking or just hanging out with my kids, like once I get into something, I can't stop. Right. Shani, oh my God, man. Thank you so much for your time. Thanks, guys. Yeah.

Thank you, Shani. Thank you and learn about you and get to know you. Sean, can't wait to hang. Likewise. Thanks, Brandon. Jason, Sean. See you, pal. Wendell, thanks very much.

Thanks, buddy. Bye, buddy. Bye. Bye. So, Sean, that was hockey. That was hockey. That's hockey. Oh, on the ice.

Okay. So, like I've done like, is that like figure skating? Sure. Exactly. They just like saukow, double axle. But it just means that you get to attack your competitors, you know, on the ice. You don't have to wait for them to leave the locker room and have your bodyguard hit them in the shins.

Yeah. No, no, no. You can just do it in plain view. No, I mean, look, I've never been, you know, I never watched sit down and watch hockey. I do watch football. I do watch. Have you ever been to a live hockey game? Yeah.

I went to the L.A. Kings once. It's fun, right? Oh, it's so fun. Yeah. I really, really genuinely wish it was a bigger sport in the United States. Why is that, Will? I mean, it's not like we don't have frozen ponds here in the States. So many options.

There are too many. I mean, it is huge. If you look at the Northern States, Minnesota, Michigan, it's massive, just like it is in Canada. But there are also so many big sports here. The football is so huge here in baseball, basketball certainly. And you know, why did, why did football take off in the States and not as much in Canada? You have the NFL, because this just, the stakes are lower.

We have the Canadian Football League, which has eight teams, two of which are named the Rough Riders. No joke. Right. But I mean, they had the same, the same timing, the same opportunity for football to take off there as it did here and, and, well, just because the league, because the league saddles the border, the NHL, the hockey league, it means that it is bigger and there's more money and it's a bigger deal.

When you have Canadian Football League, there's just not the same kind of, they don't have the same money and resources that they can pour into it. So it just doesn't become as big. But hockey is that sport that, you know, look, Canada is just by virtue of being that much further north. You do the winter months are longer and it is just colder out for longer. It's as simple as that. It must be, right?

It's definitely a factor. But you know, you go to Toronto in July and the Toronto Maple Leafs are on the front cover of the sports pages. You know, that's amazing. Yeah. They're huge. I know. But anyway, how great was he?

He's such a great guy. I love him. I love hanging out with him. He's the best dude and I'm just so happy for him. And he's such a smart guy and even if nothing else, he's really changed the way that people look at that team in Toronto and he's... Is that right? Absolutely, man.

He's changed the whole culture. He's always had a long view on this and, you know, he has this thing, the Shannon Plan, which he's, you know, sometimes people lot him for it and sometimes they try to hang it around his neck. The truth is he's really calm. He knows he's confident that in the long term, they're going to do well. So yeah. Well, that was fun, you guys.

That really, really was. I really, really liked that. Love meeting him. Love meeting him. I hope this virus goes away so we can get back out here to LA or we go over there and we go get a dinner. That was nice. Yeah.

Yeah. I hope your virus clears up too, Jason. And just, I think wet wipes and a lot of sleep. Okay. If I just tilt down a little bit, you'll see it's really weeping. The feet's cutting. The feet's cutting. A weeping wound.

All right, guys. Super fun. This is My Little Boy. Bye. Smart. Plus. Smart. Plus.

Plus. Yeah. Yeah. Bye-bye. Bye. Smart. Plus. Smart.

Plus.